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Dnaexplorer321
07-22-2018, 03:56 PM
I got 47.3% Central American on MyHeritage, but I get 22-27% Native American on other DNA services.

i.imgur.com/KT3qZGm

I'm guessing the samples collected for the Central American category were of "mixed" people?

AncestryDNA gave me a genetic community located in Mexico using my Iberian Peninsula, Europe South, and Native American ancestry which all adds up to 73%, not 47.3% or anything close to that.

This makes me realize how strange it is for countries to be an ethnicity. I guess it's a matter at where these DNA services draw the line on how far things can be divided? I don't know how to explain it any better than that.

msmarjoribanks
07-22-2018, 08:01 PM
Here's some information:

https://www.myheritage.com/ethnicities/broadly-central-american/ethnicity-worldwide-distribution

And someone else's experience:

http://whoareyoumadeof.com/blog/2018/03/26/my-heritage-dna-central-american/

ArmandoR1b
07-22-2018, 09:05 PM
I got 47.3% Central American on MyHeritage, but I get 22-27% Native American on other DNA services.

i.imgur.com/KT3qZGm

I'm guessing the samples collected for the Central American category were of "mixed" people?

AncestryDNA gave me a genetic community located in Mexico using my Iberian Peninsula, Europe South, and Native American ancestry which all adds up to 73%, not 47.3% or anything close to that.

This makes me realize how strange it is for countries to be an ethnicity. I guess it's a matter at where these DNA services draw the line on how far things can be divided? I don't know how to explain it any better than that.

How much Native American do you get at 23andme and at AncestryDNA?

geebee
07-22-2018, 09:07 PM
I never took MyHeritage's actual test, but I did upload three different companies' DNA files (all mine). They were from: 23andMe, Ancestry, and FTDNA.

Here's how the relevant results came out for me:

23andMe ... America - 2.3% (Native American - 1.6%; Central American - 0.7%)
Ancestry ... America - 2.5% (Native American - 1.5%; Central American - 1.0%)
FTDNA ... America - 1.7% (Native American - 1.7%)

Notice that the analysis of the FTDNA has a lower total for "America" and shows no "Central American" percentage. Initially, since I was only looking at the "America" category just now, I figured that perhaps the analysis of the FTDNA file put a larger percentage into my "South Europe" ancestry. But it doesn't.

In fact, the FTDNA files gives the lowest percentage of this category. The analysis of the 23andMe file yields 19.2% South Europe, and the analysis of the Ancestry file yields 16.8% (which is only marginally higher than for the FTDNA file).

Both of my maternal grandmother's grandfathers immigrated from Menorca, so you'd guess that my "Iberian" should be somewhere in the neighborhood of 12.5%, plus I also have a bit of ancestry from southern France.

However, I'll also note this. I have several cousins with results at MyHeritage who are also descended from one of my Menorcan 2nd great grandfathers. Some of them also have other Spanish/Catalan ancestry -- mostly also from Menorca -- and the same French ancestry (and sometimes additional).

Quite a few of them show a small percentage of Central American ancestry, without the Native American. But all of us have the same documented Native American ancestor from a number of generations ago. There's some uncertainty as to what her tribe was, but it's believed by some to have been Choctaw; that would also fit the time and place involved.

One difference I have from this particular group of cousins is that I also have a Native American ancestor on my grandfather's side that they don't. I had thought this might have been the source of the component labeled as "Native American", but I have cousins who share this ancestry too. Several of them show "Central American" but not "Native American" -- even when the source of the ancestry is the same person.

I don't believe that for my group of cousins on both my mother's parents' sides, that any of this is actually from Central America. It's all actually just Native American; but apparently some of the DNA has a closer connection to their Central America reference panel than to their Native American reference panel.

(If we could -- and would, which isn't likely -- exhume either of these ancestors and analyse the DNA in their bone marrow or teeth, it would be interesting to see how they'd test. Of course, that isn't going to happen. I mean, besides just from the fact that I'm not sure it's known where either one is buried.)

Dnaexplorer321
07-22-2018, 09:47 PM
How much Native American do you get at 23andme and at AncestryDNA?

imgur.com/Bb7eKKO - 27%
imgur.com/qskpzJK - ~23.6%


Here's some information:

myheritage.com/ethnicities/broadly-central-american/ethnicity-worldwide-distribution

And someone else's experience:

whoareyoumadeof.com/blog/2018/03/26/my-heritage-dna-central-american/

So their dataset is based off "mixed" people. But wouldn't I be 100% Central American since my family has been in Mexico since the founding of the country and maybe before that when it was New Spain? I only know that my grandpa's great grandmother was supposedly from Spain.

ArmandoR1b
07-22-2018, 10:12 PM
imgur.com/Bb7eKKO - 27%
imgur.com/qskpzJK - ~23.6%

So their dataset is based off "mixed" people. But wouldn't I be 100% Central American since my family has been in Mexico since the founding of the country and maybe before that when it was New Spain?

It looks like their reference dataset for Central Americans is almost half Native American and almost half European. So, it looks like since you have less Native American than the reference Central Americans samples so they figured you are close to half Central American and close to half European with most of it from southern Europe. Most Mexicans have between 40-60% Native American DNA. But there are some families in Mexico with less Native American ancestry and more Spanish ancestry. MyHeritage is one of the newer DNA companies. FTDNA has been doing it longer but it also has a bad ethnicity calculator. I have found 23andme to be the best for Latin Americans. For instance, 23andme was able to detect your West African but AncestryDNA wasn't. Eurogenes K13 at Gedmatch will also show that you have Sub-Saharan DNA. All of the calculators agree that you have a large portion of Iberian DNA and southern European DNA. Testing your parents at 23andme would allow you to be phased and get a more accurate result at 23andme.

msmarjoribanks
07-23-2018, 11:44 AM
imgur.com/Bb7eKKO - 27%
imgur.com/qskpzJK - ~23.6%



So their dataset is based off "mixed" people. But wouldn't I be 100% Central American since my family has been in Mexico since the founding of the country and maybe before that when it was New Spain? I only know that my grandpa's great grandmother was supposedly from Spain.

It seems like a problematic approach in general, since obviously there are different proportions of Native American to European in different parts of Latin America (or to some extent different families, as ArmandoR1b points out). MyHeritage's approach to calling the mix "Central American" sometimes is unnecessarily confusing. Just as they don't have a "North American" or "Canadian" or "US" category, having a "Central American" one is odd, as you said in your first post.

Nitsuga
08-23-2018, 04:49 PM
It's even worse for those of us that have south american native blood. They still put it as Central American. I know that the ethnicity reports are one of the big selling points of DNA tests, but they are just estimates and sometimes really off the mark. It makes people doubt the test in itself, but it's just that company's interpretation of the raw results the one that's off.

Hammer
08-24-2018, 09:50 PM
The idea of having a mestizo "Central American" reference is really silly..imagine how popular these tests would be if people in the U.S. simply got "American" on them. Yeah, no-one would buy them. I imagine one of the biggest drivers of sales for Latin American customers is to determine their split of European, Native American and other components (SSA, Middle East, Asian etc.), just like customers in the U.S. want to see where their mostly immigrant ancestors came from rather than a confirmation that they're indeed Americans.

RobinBMc
08-25-2018, 04:22 PM
The idea of having a mestizo "Central American" reference is really silly..imagine how popular these tests would be if people in the U.S. simply got "American" on them. Yeah, no-one would buy them. I imagine one of the biggest drivers of sales for Latin American customers is to determine their split of European, Native American and other components (SSA, Middle East, Asian etc.), just like customers in the U.S. want to see where their mostly immigrant ancestors came from rather than a confirmation that they're indeed Americans.

Lol, sadly I've actually come across a lot of people who say something like "Wait, I'm American, why don't I get results IN America?"

Dimanto
08-25-2018, 04:38 PM
I got 47.3% Central American on MyHeritage, but I get 22-27% Native American on other DNA services.

i.imgur.com/KT3qZGm

I'm guessing the samples collected for the Central American category were of "mixed" people?

AncestryDNA gave me a genetic community located in Mexico using my Iberian Peninsula, Europe South, and Native American ancestry which all adds up to 73%, not 47.3% or anything close to that.

This makes me realize how strange it is for countries to be an ethnicity. I guess it's a matter at where these DNA services draw the line on how far things can be divided? I don't know how to explain it any better than that.

Ancestry's Genetic Communities, use IBD-matches and their family trees to determine the genetic region.

Sulfonico
08-26-2018, 12:36 AM
I am in the same situation. Uploading MyHeritage data into FTDNA and GedMatch I got the Native Central American reduced substantially. But the question I have is it reliable just to upload the Raw Data from MyHeritage or it should be advisable also to actually re-do the test on other company. According to a suggestion here 23andme works well for us as latin americans.

tamandua
08-27-2018, 12:57 PM
It results in some wildly entertaining mistakes. Example from our family (I'm rounding off and working from memory)

father (Af-Am): 70% African 30% European (myheritage and ftdna)
mother (Amerindian): 96-100% Native American (everywhere)

their son: everywhere but myheritage: about 50% Amerindian, 35% African, 15% European, which makes perfect sense

myheritage: 70% Central American 30% African 0% European

No, his father is definitely not Central American, nor were the Virginia/NC african slaves and their white Enslavers.

Nitsuga
08-31-2018, 03:10 PM
Sulfonico, the raw data is there and it's correct. It's the interpretation of that data that induces error. Getting tests in other places will test different DNA SNPs (and several that are at the same positions) and you can build a more complete autosomal DNA, but the interpretations will not be any better.
What we need for native americans is scientists digging up pre-hispanic natives and getting their DNA so we can see the difference between a Mapuche, Inca, Maya, Chinook, Azteca, etc. Then that data can be compared with your DNA and get better estimates.
There's some advances in that, but mainly through Y-Haplogroups (you paternal Y Chromosome DNA). But hardly anyone has native american Y-DNA as usually "invaders" replace male DNA quite quickly. On the other side, Maternal DNA (mtDNA) carried in the mitochondria is much more popular (again, "invaders" mingle with local females). MtDNA tests are available and can get you interesting information.

ArmandoR1b
09-03-2018, 07:17 PM
I am in the same situation. Uploading MyHeritage data into FTDNA and GedMatch I got the Native Central American reduced substantially. But the question I have is it reliable just to upload the Raw Data from MyHeritage or it should be advisable also to actually re-do the test on other company. According to a suggestion here 23andme works well for us as latin americans.

Yes, in my opinion, 23andme is much better for us latin americans. How much Native American did you get with Eurogenes K13 at Gedmatch? That amount normally won't be off by more than 1.5% from 23andme. The higher the total percentage the less it is off. I assume that you have a low single digit amount based on the fact that you are from Argentina. An amount of 1.8% NA or less with any Gedmatch calculator can be a false positive.

jesdurn
09-08-2018, 02:48 PM
Is this something that they could easily adjust in a new release of their model or is it more complex because it is related to the sample group they are using? Maybe they are considering the mixing to be so ingrained that Central American deserves its own category as a derived ancestry.

Sulfonico
09-18-2018, 07:36 AM
Sulfonico, the raw data is there and it's correct. It's the interpretation of that data that induces error. Getting tests in other places will test different DNA SNPs (and several that are at the same positions) and you can build a more complete autosomal DNA, but the interpretations will not be any better.
What we need for native americans is scientists digging up pre-hispanic natives and getting their DNA so we can see the difference between a Mapuche, Inca, Maya, Chinook, Azteca, etc. Then that data can be compared with your DNA and get better estimates.
There's some advances in that, but mainly through Y-Haplogroups (you paternal Y Chromosome DNA). But hardly anyone has native american Y-DNA as usually "invaders" replace male DNA quite quickly. On the other side, Maternal DNA (mtDNA) carried in the mitochondria is much more popular (again, "invaders" mingle with local females). MtDNA tests are available and can get you interesting information.

Thanks for you r feedback Nitsuga. In regard of Y-DNA you are right I got J2B2 J-241 located in the Balkans.

Sulfonico
09-18-2018, 07:51 AM
Yes, in my opinion, 23andme is much better for us latin americans. How much Native American did you get with Eurogenes K13 at Gedmatch? That amount normally won't be off by more than 1.5% from 23andme. The higher the total percentage the less it is off. I assume that you have a low single digit amount based on the fact that you are from Argentina. An amount of 1.8% NA or less with any Gedmatch calculator can be a false positive.

Actually I do have a lot of amerindian in me. But I should not be surprised since I am an adoptee. I got 17.56% in Gedmatch.

By the way there is a very interesting map with Euro porcentages. You can take a look to understant our reality in term of genetic admixture in Latinamerica.
Unfortunately I cannot post links in this forum to the original thread but here is the map (add the h t t p : / / without spaces and the folowing i.imgur.com/qAyTInj.png

Sulfonico
09-18-2018, 07:57 AM
Is this something that they could easily adjust in a new release of their model or is it more complex because it is related to the sample group they are using? Maybe they are considering the mixing to be so ingrained that Central American deserves its own category as a derived ancestry.

I think they should be doing the same approach of the others companies. They should create a different model if they wanted to. Like Gedmacth where you can choose different models depending on what portions you can more details. I should not have used their services if I knew this before. We already ordered from them for my wife´s but for my 3 children we are going to use a different company. To me they are manipulating results creating a composite reference sample.

jesdurn
09-24-2018, 04:51 PM
I think they should be doing the same approach of the others companies. They should create a different model if they wanted to. Like Gedmacth where you can choose different models depending on what portions you can more details. I should not have used their services if I knew this before. We already ordered from them for my wife´s but for my 3 children we are going to use a different company. To me they are manipulating results creating a composite reference sample.

Same here. I ordered one for my father and then had to go through the hassle of estimating (+additional payment) with FTDNA to get accurate results. My uncle was interested in doing it and I referenced him directly to FTDNA.

ArmandoR1b
09-25-2018, 02:02 PM
Actually I do have a lot of amerindian in me. But I should not be surprised since I am an adoptee. I got 17.56% in Gedmatch.

By the way there is a very interesting map with Euro porcentages. You can take a look to understant our reality in term of genetic admixture in Latinamerica.
Unfortunately I cannot post links in this forum to the original thread but here is the map (add the h t t p : / / without spaces and the folowing i.imgur.com/qAyTInj.png

That's cool that you have that much amerindian. Most of the Argentinians that I have seen post their results have amerindian DNA in the single digits or none at all. Any idea what the source is for that map?

mildlycurly
10-14-2018, 09:36 PM
One of my new matches is Mexican-American, as I've said on another thread, and he scores no Spanish at all despite having a name suggesting Spanish descent. All his Euro is Greek, Sardinian and Italian.