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soulblighter
10-21-2013, 03:05 PM
Replicating discussion from Molgen,

mtDNA C is found in North East (and North) India among Tibeto-Burman groups.
But surprisingly, it is also found in South and West India.

I carry mtDNA C4a1, and my variety appears to be farthest away from the Tibeto-Burman variety in India.

My sample is on top here: http://cerbere.ca/wconnect/wc.dll?nestor~NCBIMTDELTA~ADNamermt~membership~JN3 92434~E
The second sample on that list (and closest match to mine so far) is Ukrainian.


There is a supposed variant of C in Kattunaiken tribes of Kerala, but no one knows what type it is: http://www.hygienecentral.org.uk/pdf/Cordaux%20%20European.pdf

I have found another mtDNA C from West India in mitosearch (REXGE), but unfortunately no response.

On 23andme, I have found 3 other C4a (possibly C4a1) who appear as relatives, but unfortunately not one of them has responded back. I assume they have the same ethnic background as me (south Indian Brahmin).

Solothurn
12-20-2013, 02:30 AM
Hi

Google maps shows 10 C4a1
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&t=h&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=206229773377001645297.0004a5bb82d24e9195dac

I have two C4a1 matches on 23andMe, well three but two are mother and son I think.

I don't know if there are any known subclades of C4a1 on 23andMe's V3 chip, but think my matches are of English/Irish ancestry!




Replicating discussion from Molgen,

mtDNA C is found in North East (and North) India among Tibeto-Burman groups.
But surprisingly, it is also found in South and West India.

I carry mtDNA C4a1, and my variety appears to be farthest away from the Tibeto-Burman variety in India.

My sample is on top here: http://cerbere.ca/wconnect/wc.dll?nestor~NCBIMTDELTA~ADNamermt~membership~JN3 92434~E
The second sample on that list (and closest match to mine so far) is Ukrainian.


There is a supposed variant of C in Kattunaiken tribes of Kerala, but no one knows what type it is: http://www.hygienecentral.org.uk/pdf/Cordaux%20%20European.pdf

I have found another mtDNA C from West India in mitosearch (REXGE), but unfortunately no response.

On 23andme, I have found 3 other C4a (possibly C4a1) who appear as relatives, but unfortunately not one of them has responded back. I assume they have the same ethnic background as me (south Indian Brahmin).

palamede
12-20-2013, 04:31 PM
I carry mtDNA C4a1, and my variety appears to be farthest away from the Tibeto-Burman variety in India.

My sample is on top here: http://cerbere.ca/wconnect/wc.dll?nestor~NCBIMTDELTA~ADNamermt~membership~JN3 92434~E
The second sample on that list (and closest match to mine so far) is Ukrainian.
...............

On 23andme, I have found 3 other C4a (possibly C4a1) who appear as relatives, but unfortunately not one of them has responded back. I assume they have the same ethnic background as me (south Indian Brahmin).

As you said for your Y-hg G2a2b2a-P303 which is probably explained by the Indo-Scythian (Sakas) origin of a part of your Brahmin cast the Iyers, same explanation could be done for your mt-hg C4a1.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iyer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Scythians

Solothurn
12-20-2013, 05:16 PM
According to PhyloTree.org - mtDNA tree Build 15 (30 Sep 2012) there are 11 'known' subclades of C4a1
http://www.phylotree.org/tree/subtree_M.htm

C4a1'5
C4a1a
C4a1a1
C4a1b
C4a1b1
C4a1c
C4a1c1
C4a1c1a
C4a1c2
C4a1d
C4a1e

Have there been any more subclades added since 30 Sep 2012?

soulblighter
12-21-2013, 03:30 AM
According to PhyloTree.org - mtDNA tree Build 15 (30 Sep 2012) there are 11 'known' subclades of C4a1
http://www.phylotree.org/tree/subtree_M.htm

C4a1'5
C4a1a
C4a1a1
C4a1b
C4a1b1
C4a1c
C4a1c1
C4a1c1a
C4a1c2
C4a1d
C4a1e

Have there been any more subclades added since 30 Sep 2012?

Yes, I think that is the last update so far ( http://www.mtdnacommunity.org/ ) . But I belong to none of them. Also, I am the south Indian sample on the google map you posted. Are you sure your C4a1 matches are English/Irish?

Solothurn
12-21-2013, 11:54 AM
Yes. One Is 'wallis' on the 23andMe C4a1 thread you posted on!

https://www.23andme.com/you/community/thread/7822/2/

Maybe he is a subclade not on the V3 chip.

newtoboard
12-22-2013, 06:09 PM
I believe c4a2 was the branch found on the steppe not c4a1.

soulblighter
12-22-2013, 06:35 PM
I believe c4a2 was the branch found on the steppe not c4a1.

C4a1( with no defined subgroup) is all over the place from Ukraine to south Siberia, including the steppe. The only exact HVR1 and HVR2 match for my sample so far is Kyrgyz.

newtoboard
12-22-2013, 07:06 PM
C4a1( with no defined subgroup) is all over the place from Ukraine to south Siberia, including the steppe. The only exact HVR1 and HVR2 match for my sample so far is Kyrgyz.

I might be wrong then. But that might be the modern distribution. I was talking about the C found in ancient samples being C4a2.

soulblighter
12-22-2013, 07:18 PM
I might be wrong then. But that might be the modern distribution. I was talking about the C found in ancient samples being C4a2.

Yes you are right, but the C discovered so far all fall under C4a, and with only HVR 1, it is difficult to guess their type.

Kristiina, Maju and I had a big dicussion about this on his blog. Look at the comments also.


http://forwhattheywereweare.wordpress.com/2013/09/12/ukraines-neolithic-and-bronze-age-ancient-mtdna/comment-page-3/

soulblighter
02-09-2015, 03:21 PM
Latest mtDNA matches from Genbank:

3746

bol_nat
09-07-2015, 12:00 AM
The Chitrali 1 I post gedmatch results of is C4a maternal.

soulblighter
09-26-2015, 05:33 AM
The Chitrali 1 I post gedmatch results of is C4a maternal.

Do you know if they have FMS results?

soulblighter
10-17-2015, 03:35 AM
Anybody know how to read the age estimates from the mtPhyl tool?
for example, under 248delA<249delA (bottom right), what does 0.51(-0.07;1.11) mean?
The variable is called M(Time)(Min 95% Time ; Max 95% Time) but I cannot find any documentation on what that means.
6355

soulblighter
10-20-2015, 01:45 PM
So based on mtPhyl calculations in this file (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4i_vMjkFX-oYk5aY3ppRWxHbkk/view?usp=sharing), my mtDNA split off from the Ukranian Genbank sample JX266260 about 4000 YBP!
Both these samples split from the "Chinese" sample AY255174 about 4500 YBP, although I am not sure which part of China this sample is from.
Finally, These three samples split from the South siberian mtDNA C4a1c samples (FJ951442, EU482322) about 6000 years ago.

Gisele H
10-24-2015, 06:10 PM
Both these samples split from the "Chinese" sample AY255174 about 4500 YBP, although I am not sure which part of China this sample is from.

The identifier for AY255174, XJ8435, indicates that the sequence was from Xinjiang.

soulblighter
10-24-2015, 07:26 PM
The identifier for AY255174, XJ8435, indicates that the sequence was from Xinjiang.

Cool! I wonder if this indicates the migration of mtDNA C4a1 during a major event in the steppe (climate change?)ending up eventually in Xinjiang, South India and Ukraine or any of the others after! The time line with an average of 4500 YBP when they were together probably places them somewhere in the south siberian steppe? I wish I had many more similar sequences to drill down on the timeline....

Curiouscat
11-15-2016, 04:11 AM
C4a1( with no defined subgroup) is all over the place from Ukraine to south Siberia, including the steppe. The only exact HVR1 and HVR2 match for my sample so far is Kyrgyz.

I just found out at 23andMe that my mtDNA group is C4a1. I was born in Delhi and belong to a Punjabi family (both paternal and maternal). I wanted to reach out to you and get some help in tracing my maternal line.

soulblighter
02-15-2018, 01:07 AM
Updated tree (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1OKDF3J8PSBh_ESfc_0v46t4t1qotcooy3xS-pd8kOh8) including C4a1 samples from Pamir.

To calculate TMRCA, multiply the M value by 7884 years.

For example, TMRCA to C4a1 = 7884*2.9 years (95% confidence interval range gives 7884* 1.4 to 7884 * 4.3)

Shuzam87
08-14-2021, 08:21 PM
Recently Yfull mtree had uploaded a bunch of ancient Xinjiang DNA samples and plenty of them belonged to the downstream of C4

soulblighter
08-22-2021, 03:41 AM
So based on mtPhyl calculations in this file (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4i_vMjkFX-oYk5aY3ppRWxHbkk/view?usp=sharing), my mtDNA split off from the Ukranian Genbank sample JX266260 about 4000 YBP!
Both these samples split from the "Chinese" sample AY255174 about 4500 YBP, although I am not sure which part of China this sample is from.
Finally, These three samples split from the South siberian mtDNA C4a1c samples (FJ951442, EU482322) about 6000 years ago.


Recently Yfull mtree had uploaded a bunch of ancient Xinjiang DNA samples and plenty of them belonged to the downstream of C4
Thanks. Looks like my maternal ancestors may after all have some connection to Xinjiang. Interesting that the C4s related to Xianjiang are found in India and Eastern Europe and so are Y-DNA R1a-Z2123+.

Shuzam87
08-22-2021, 03:46 AM
Thanks. Looks like my maternal ancestors may after all have some connection to Xinjiang. Interesting that the C4s related to Xianjiang are found in India and Eastern Europe and so are Y-DNA R1a-Z2123+.
Among all the samples, three of them AXL_M6/NLKG218_M15/AYSGK_M7 were assigned to C4a1a-a (T195C!) https://www.yfull.com/mtree/C4a1a-a/

Sample ID Haplogroup Locations Time (BP) Culture
AXL_M6 C4a1a-a* Axile (AXL), Xinyuan County. 2349-2301 W_IA
AYSGK_M7 C4a1a-a* Ayousaigoukou (AYSGK), Xinyuan County. 2703-2155 W_IA
NLKG218_M15 C4a1a-a* G218 (NLKG218), Nilka County. 2309-1968 W_IA

Shuzam87
08-22-2021, 09:01 AM
Thanks. Looks like my maternal ancestors may after all have some connection to Xinjiang. Interesting that the C4s related to Xianjiang are found in India and Eastern Europe and so are Y-DNA R1a-Z2123+.

Also, the Indian Gujjar sample KX467263 from Jammu and Kashmir which was previously assigned to C4a1a-a, is now at C4a1a-a4b alongside a Hungarian sample MG952858 and two ancient Xinjiang mtDNA samples BZL_M30/TSBL_M11A/AXL_M6/NLKG218_M15/AYSGK_M7

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/C4a1a-a4b/