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waltematec
08-15-2018, 12:00 AM
Hi All,

I recently did my test through LivingDNA.

My yDNA is heavily Germanic (R1b-u106) (ancestors on my father's family tree were born in and immigrated to the USA pretty much exclusively from Germany)
Netherlands 35%
England 35%
Germany 25%
Denmark 25%
Norway 25%
Belgium 25%

And my mtDNA is heavily Northern Scandinavia (U5) (ancestors on my mother's family tree were born in and immigrated to the USA pretty much exclusively from France)
Saami 58%
Norway 56%
Sweden 26%
Finland 17%

My Autosomal was weird and gave me nearly all UK, a small percentage of Scandinavian, and a few other countries. 0% Germany and 0% France
I read more, at it said that LivingDNA's samples usually come from the UK since it is a UK based company, and Germanic DNA is easily mistaken for UK DNA. This gives me a loose confirmation of Germanic DNA, but I can't specifically determine if my ancestors were Anglo, Saxon, Jute, or Norse/Viking from this, all are possibilities as Germanic DNA covers all of them, and they all settled various areas of the UK.

When I clicked on the timeline feature, Germany showed up but Scandinavia was still darker (Scandinavia and UK were the darkest on the map). When I get to from around 800 AD to present day on the timeline slider, Scandinavia seems to drop off sharply from the darkest region to almost nothing while the other countries stay about the same. In addition, through my genealogy research, I traced my mother's side back to Normandy around the 1700's or so. This to me explains the connection to Norway/Saami on my mtDNA and the sharp drop in my Autosomal from Scandinavia between 800-1000AD (Normans).

I downloaded my raw data and uploaded it to GEDMatch and ran a few tests. I ran my Modern Admixture and it gave me hot spots in Netherlands, Northern Germany, Denmark, and Norway.
I then ran my ancient ancestry and it gave me this:

---------------------------------------------------------------

# Population (source) Distance
1 Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97 5.02
2 Alberstedt_LN_I0118 5.08
3 Halberstadt_LBA_I0099 6.57
4 Unetice_EBA_I0117 6.66

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 62.1% Sintashta_MBA_RISE_386 + 37.9% Baalberge_MN_I0560 1.72
2 86.8% Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97 + 13.2% Hungary_CA_I1497 1.87
3 87.9% Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97 + 12.1% Hungary_EN_I0495 1.98
4 89.3% Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97 + 10.7% Stuttgart_SG 2.02
5 87.5% Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97 + 12.5% Iceman_MN_SG 2.03
6 87.5% Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97 + 12.5% Epserstedt_MN_I0172 2.05
7 87% Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97 + 13% Baalberge_MN_I0560 2.06
8 88.8% Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97 + 11.2% Remedello_BA_SG_RISE489 2.06
9 89.1% Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97 + 10.9% LBK_EN_I0054 2.07
10 89.7% Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97 + 10.3% Starcevo_MN_I0174 2.12
11 88.7% Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97 + 11.3% Iberia_EN_I0412 2.13
12 87.2% Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97 + 12.8% Iberia_M_ I0406 2.17
13 88.3% Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97 + 11.7% Iberia_Chalcolithic_I0300 2.2

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would naturally assume that my Nordic ancestry comes from my mom's side as it is strongly Norwegian/Saami and R1b-U106(S21+) is strongly German, but while reading about U106 I found some interesting articles that say that U106 moved northward into Scandinavia around 1700BC and occupied Germany, Denmark, and Western Norway exclusively until around 200AD. Then from 200AD-900AD it dispersed through out Europe. U106(S21+) was also one of the 3 main Haplogroups of the Ancient Norse, second to I1-M253.

So this makes me wonder: my mtDNA shows 0% Denmark, so if I have Danish ancestry, it would have likely come from my father's side.

Could my heritage be showing Nordic from a combination of Norway from my mom and Denmark/Norway from my dad? Or is it a better bet that it’s just exclusively from my mom’s side?

However, my yDNA (U106) is also found in all 3 countries equally: Norway (25%), Denmark (25%), and Germany (25%).
Another point, if you consider both my yDNA and mtDNA results collectively, my Norwegian lineage is very high, as Norway is really the only common country found on both sides of any substantial percentage (56% on my mtDNA and 25% on my yDNA).

Every test that I have done has used words like "Scandinavia" and "Nordic" with the exception of my yDNA and mtDNA, and haven't given me specific country names. Given the information here, is it safe to assume that the Nordic ancestry comes exclusively from my mom's side, or is there enough U106 in Denmark and Norway to possibly have contributed too? Also, should I assume Norway contributed more to my genetics than Denmark or even Germany or France (as it gave me 0% for Germany AND France on my Autosomal from LivingDNA)?

I'm RELATIVELY new to this, so forgive any lapses in logic, I'm trying to connect the dots. That being said, I have done a LOT of reading on the subject since taking the test at LivingDNA. Lastly, I realize that my mtDNA and yDNA only make up a small portion of my overall ancestry, but it's all that I have to go off of. Any insight is welcome!

Jessie
08-15-2018, 05:57 AM
There is a LivingDNA section on here so you might get more responses if you post in there.

Is it possible for you to post your Complete LivingDNA breakdown? It would be interesting to see what they assigned for you.

The problem with LivingDNA is that they don't have enough samples from other areas at the moment so a lot of people will get British results without having much British ancestry.

timberwolf
08-15-2018, 06:06 AM
There is a LivingDNA section on here so you might get more responses if you post in there.

Is it possible for you to post your Complete LivingDNA breakdown? It would be interesting to see what they assigned for you.

The problem with LivingDNA is that they don't have enough samples from other areas at the moment so a lot of people will get British results without having much British ancestry.

Jesse how much Irish did LivingDNA assign you?

Jessie
08-15-2018, 06:18 AM
Jesse how much Irish did LivingDNA assign you?

I got quite a bit. From memory it was 47%. My daughter though only got 11+%. Half her ancestry is from the Wexford/Dublin area so that might confuse the algorithms a bit as well. I think myself and brother had one of the highest amounts of Irish on LivingDNA judging from other Irish results.

waltematec
08-15-2018, 09:50 AM
Sure,
I did happen to find a break down in the sub regions of the UK of contributing regions. From here, my German and French do show up, though they didn’t on the initial break down. Taking those into account, this is what it gave me:

Great Britain & Ireland = 47.10%
Scandinavia = 13.73%
France = 11.29%
Germany = 10.94%
Spain = 5.04%
Belgium = 3.91%
North Turkey = 3.7%
West Balkans = 1.6%
Baltics = 1.3%
Tuscany = 1.3%

JohnHowellsTyrfro
08-16-2018, 05:51 AM
If you are interested in finding out more about your Y U106 you should consider joining the Yahoo Group Project. However to find out more would require further "Y" testing which can be relatively expensive. Unfortunately there are no easy answers to "country of ancient origin"at present unless you are very lucky and find Y matches which may give a clue. However the more people who test, the more we will find out.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b1c_U106-S21/info?referrer=Beatty_Byrnes_DNA

waltematec
08-16-2018, 10:35 AM
True. My paternal cousin took the LivingDNA test as well. He had lower Scandinavian and his ancient ancestry specifically said Germany. But I feel like my aunt’s genetics probably impacted that a lot, as she’s not related to me by blood. (His father is my father’s brother). There’s also always the chance that my father inherited more Denmark/Norway than his brother did. So unfortunately that doesn’t really rule much out for me. As for my mom’s side of the family, my mom passed away when I was pretty young, and that kinda severed most contact with that side of the family, so I can’t learn much from them. Luckily the mtDNA and my genealogy research makes that side pretty clear. Also, my dad recently did LivingDNA. When he uploads his raw data to GEDMatch and runs his ancient ancestry, I should have my answer.

msmarjoribanks
08-16-2018, 12:09 PM
It should give you Global, Regional, and then Sub-Regions (if you click the plus again). Is what you showed above the sub-regions? It should give a breakdown of the English/Irish regions also.

My ancestry is predominantly English and British Isles more generally, but I definitely have more German than showed up, so I suspect it's in my SE English, although hopefully it will be revised at some point.

Oddly enough my Scandinavian is about right at 10.3% (one great-grandparent was fully Swedish, so that's reasonable enough), but I get only 1.4% German, and while my German is less certain and longer ago, I am sure it's more than that (although hard to say, since it was all 18th c immigration and who knows how much of it I inherited -- on paper it could be as much as another eighth, though).

On the YDNA, as JohnHowellsTyrfro said, you really would have to learn more about your specific subclade, which would likely involve more testing. Otherwise, I'd trust paper research more than estimates based on current location of U106 -- YDNA has basically nothing to do with autosomal. I'd also take Gedmatch with a grain of salt, although it's fun. The problem with Gedmatch is that different possible breakdowns can look the same. I've taken tests where I get 100% Frisian, and 50% N German/50% West German, and then also 75% Orkney/25% Austria, for example, and none of those are correct at all, but they all make some sense. So if you know your dad's family mainly came from Germany, I don't think there's any reason to question that based on results so far.

Just for interest, my Swedish line (my gg-grandfather who immigrated to the US) seems to be U106, although that's from my cousin-on-that-line's 23andMe, so I don't know anything more than what 23andMe gives.

waltematec
08-16-2018, 02:14 PM
Yea. I hear ya. It’s frustrating that everything is so ambiguous.

I feel like it’s strange that my highest is U.K., but no one in the past 300 years on my family tree has been from the U.K. on either side. From what I read on the site, it says that the percentages for Autosomal don’t necessarily mean that is your ancestry, but it more so tells you how much you have in common genetically with the modern populations of those countries. If that is the case, then it would make sense that I have genetics most in common with people in the U.K., as they had been heavily invaded and populated by Germany, France, AND Scandinavia. So even though none of my ancestors I have found on my family tree have been from England, it seems reasonable that there would be very similar genetics there, either through the Anglo Saxon migration, Jutes, Normans, or Vikings. (Or all of them??)

I know that from the last few hundred years my ancestors immigrated from Germany and France almost exclusively (I found a Danish connection on my father’s side back a few generations and the Normandy connection on my mom’s side). I’ve even found ship manifests of some of my specific ancestors, which was kinda cool. But my Scandinavian is higher than both French and German on LivingDNA, and also seems to be the case when I cross reference it with GEDMatch. It’s not EXACTLY the same on both sites, as I wouldn’t expect it to be, but it gave me pretty much the same general story. This really makes me wonder how long my ancestors lived in the areas they immigrated from. How many generations, I mean. Maybe they only lived in Germany and France for a few hundred years?

I can’t find anything on my ancestors before about 1700AD through genealogy. But I guess everyone is from somewhere else at some point in history, even my ancestors from Germany/France. However, I also feel like if my ancestors were in Germany/France for several generations, the Germany/French would be more dominant than the Scandinavian.

When it comes down to it, the only information I really have outside of my genealogy research is the Autosomal, yDNA, and mtDNA readouts, so I guess a grain of salt is all I have to go on? Haha (at least until the technology is refined)

On the plus side, I definitely find it encouraging that specifically my mtDNA told me to expect to find Norway on my motherline, and when exploring that line through genealogy, it lead me to Normandy, an area with strong Norwegian history. So I feel like I’m on the right path and I can take it with SOME confidence that it’s at least somewhat accurate in certain instances. I am hoping to get more clarity out of my yDNA with out spending a large amount of money, but I guess I need to accept these tests for what they are and recognize the limitations.

Onur Dincer
08-16-2018, 02:36 PM
The thread has been moved from the General section to the Living DNA section.

waltematec
08-16-2018, 02:54 PM
The thread has been moved from the General section to the Living DNA section.
Thanks! I’m very new to forum posting and wasn’t sure how to do this.

msmarjoribanks
08-16-2018, 05:15 PM
I feel like itís strange that my highest is U.K., but no one in the past 300 years on my family tree has been from the U.K. on either side.

That's just because the current LivingDNA pool is biased toward the UK, and your ancestry (Scandinavian and German) is quite similar to English ancestry. I suspect that 23andMe would give different results, for example, and that the LivingDNA will change when the German project is added.


From what I read on the site, it says that the percentages for Autosomal donít necessarily mean that is your ancestry, but it more so tells you how much you have in common genetically with the modern populations of those countries.

To some extent, but they try to figure out where your ancestry is from.


If that is the case, then it would make sense that I have genetics most in common with people in the U.K., as they had been heavily invaded and populated by Germany, France, AND Scandinavia.

Yes, there's so much overlap in NW Europe that it's hard to separate out ancestry for mixed people, but beyond that LivingDNA does seem to overstate UK ancestry for many (and understates German and Irish).


I know that from the last few hundred years my ancestors immigrated from Germany and France almost exclusively (I found a Danish connection on my fatherís side back a few generations and the Normandy connection on my momís side). Iíve even found ship manifests of some of my specific ancestors, which was kinda cool. But my Scandinavian is higher than both French and German on LivingDNA, and also seems to be the case when I cross reference it with GEDMatch.

LivingDNA seems to be better at picking at Scandinavian than German, so I wouldn't assume this from those results, especially if you have contrary evidence on paper.

Gedmatch takes a little more work to decipher and you can't take the countries you get too literally. But for fun, what are your Eurogenes K13 breakdown and regular oracle results?

Very often Gedmatch tends to more extreme comparisons, for example there are several where I get Orkney or Irish as my base, even though I have no Orkney ancestry and not that much Irish. So that it gives you a bunch of options with Scandinavian populations doesn't mean you don't really have the ancestry you see on paper (especially since German and Scandinavian are likely not that far apart, especially Northern German). This is why it's pretty impossible to sort out Anglo-Saxon and Danish (i.e., Viking) influences in England, IMO.


When it comes down to it, the only information I really have outside of my genealogy research is the Autosomal, yDNA, and mtDNA readouts, so I guess a grain of salt is all I have to go on? Haha (at least until the technology is refined)

Yes, absolutely.

waltematec
08-16-2018, 07:26 PM
Oh neat. This really coincides with the info I learned about through my Geneology! (Mostly the areas of Germany/France/Denmark) I didn’t really find anyone from Netherlands or the Baltics in my geneology, but the Baltics are definitely on my LivingDNA results (As is Spain, Portugal, and Tuscany). I assume the Norway on my mom’s side is back too far to register? It does show up eventually but it’s all the way down at #17, but I do recognize some other areas that were settled by Norwegians higher on the list, like Orcadian and West Scottish. Some of it doesn’t make sense though like the south Asian and west Asian. But a lot of the stuff on this list looks familiar from LivingDNA in general. I like that the 2 population is pretty much 50/50 German/French! Haha

Here’s the results for K13:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 45.62
2 Baltic 19.41
3 West_Med 15.31
4 East_Med 12.35
5 West_Asian 4.69
6 South_Asian 1.35


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 West_German 6.027289
2 South_Dutch 6.290088
3 French 6.571717
4 Southeast_English 9.676806
5 Southwest_English 11.919295
6 Orcadian 12.799432
7 North_German 12.799870
8 Danish 13.177041
9 North_Dutch 13.352849
10 Spanish_Cataluna 13.712713
11 West_Scottish 14.033890
12 Irish 14.051699
13 Austrian 14.413273
14 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 15.356370
15 Portuguese 15.441813
16 Spanish_Galicia 15.946730
17 Norwegian 16.144100
18 East_German 16.474747
19 Spanish_Murcia 16.556217
20 Spanish_Valencia 16.564213

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% French +50% West_German 5.024117


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Southeast_English +25% Southeast_English +25% Tuscan 3.253376


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Tuscan 3.253376
2 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_Sicilian 3.572678
3 Danish + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Tuscan 3.697532
4 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_Scottish + West_Sicilian 3.727157
5 Orcadian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Tuscan 3.757396
6 Orcadian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_Sicilian 3.779670
7 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southwest_English + Tuscan 3.800800
8 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southwest_English + West_Sicilian 3.839069
9 North_Dutch + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Tuscan 3.855370
10 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Tuscan + West_Scottish 3.856048
11 Danish + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_Sicilian 3.919051
12 Italian_Abruzzo + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southeast_English 3.950966
13 Irish + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_Sicilian 3.979858
14 North_Dutch + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_Sicilian 3.995792
15 South_Dutch + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Tuscan 4.005484
16 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Tuscan + West_German 4.026712
17 Irish + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Tuscan 4.035694
18 North_Italian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_German 4.088874
19 Danish + Southeast_English + Southwest_English + West_Sicilian 4.095043
20 North_German + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Tuscan 4.106371

msmarjoribanks
08-16-2018, 08:17 PM
Excellent. That's my favorite calculator for most people of NW European background. EU v. K15 can be good too.

waltematec
08-16-2018, 08:24 PM
I still don’t feel like it really answers much for me, though. I still see Germany, France, Denmark, and Norway. Even Southeast England was involved with the Jutes, Saxons, and Normans.

I know that the Swedish settled the Balkins, but Sweden doesn’t show up at all on any of this. But I have found that seems to always be the case on all the info I have collected. The only connection I would have to the Swedish would be 26% on my mtDNA and the Balkins. But it seems pretty straight forward that my Scandinavian wouldn’t come from there, at least in any impactful way.

waltematec
08-16-2018, 08:34 PM
I suppose it kinda answers my question to some extent about my Scandinavian, as this seems to show it’s possibly both Norwegian and Danish?

spruithean
08-16-2018, 09:13 PM
I suppose it kinda answers my question to some extent about my Scandinavian, as this seems to show itís possibly both Norwegian and Danish?

No, what these calculators are estimating or predicting is that you may have some Scandinavian DNA, and though you may have Norwegian or Swedish ancestry because it is mixed with North German you may get placed as "Danish" or what have you, due to a more southerly pull from your North German DNA.

In my own case my ancestry is primarily Dutch, Irish and UK, with distant French and German, however because my paternal Irish+UK mix added with my South Holland maternal grandfather and Groningen maternal grandmother I get strange Oracle results from some of those GEDmatch calculators with EuroK13 predicting me as some Southeast+Southwest English + Danish + Swedish or K15 thinks I'm just Irish.

Basically with GEDmatch (and most tests in general) it's best to see the areas listed as broad regions, so with my own GEDmatch for example when it predicts some sort of Cornish + Southeast English + Danish + Irish or whatever mix I can go through my paper trail and look for regions where my ancestors came from quite recently. My great-grandmother was born in London, UK, to English parents of Cornish and English origins, my great-grandfather was born to a Northern Irish father and Irish mother, my maternal family is Dutch, I can see how that could be represented as Danish and my English ancestry could be quite similar to Danish too.

These calculators, algorithms aren't entirely accurate and the field is advancing with each new study and test, it will be refined in due time.

I remember awhile ago there were some threads linking to how we could plot ourselves on a map of the world, and I ended up right smack dab in the North Sea where Doggerland would have been.

waltematec
08-16-2018, 09:48 PM
For sure! I feel like the biggest issue is that the Scandinavians are very genetically similar to the Germans. They all kinda started out as the same people from what I have read, so I can definitely see how things can easily be confused. It can just be quite frustrating at the same time when looking for answers.

As for the paper trail, I was able to compile a pretty extensive family tree online going back several generations with only a few holes or “missing branches”. But I really feel like I have learned all I can from my family tree. I’m trying to figure out what was going on in my distant ancestry, up to about 1500 years ago. For my family tree, I’ve only been able to go back like 200-300 years, so everything before that is kinda speculative.

msmarjoribanks
08-16-2018, 10:31 PM
I suppose it kinda answers my question to some extent about my Scandinavian, as this seems to show it’s possibly both Norwegian and Danish?

It's showing you the many possibilities that explain your mix (including one that is French and German heavy).

You can't do more than, really.

I think 23andMe is one of the most accurate tests (I think LivingDNA is really accurate for people of primarily UK ancestry right now, but not beyond that). However, even with 23andMe, I get nearly 18% "Broadly NW Europe" and that's at 50% confidence. If I switch it to 90% confidence it acknowledges a lot more unknowns.

Ancestry can't tell my English from French or Scandinavian, and FTDNA gives me 85% British Isles and 15% Eastern Europe when the reality is less British Isles but some German and Swedish where the "Baltic" or whatever that looks like EE is coming from. None of these tests are going to be able to tell you anything certain (beyond that you are mostly NW Europe or something like that).

msmarjoribanks
08-16-2018, 10:32 PM
I remember awhile ago there were some threads linking to how we could plot ourselves on a map of the world, and I ended up right smack dab in the North Sea where Doggerland would have been.

I just ran that the other day, and that's exactly where I am.

msmarjoribanks
08-16-2018, 10:49 PM
Back to Eurogenes K13, it's useful to understand that it, like the other calculators, is pulling on a limited number of components, and many of the pools look very similar (and many mixes look similar). It's not able to identify "Danish genes" or "Norwegian genes" as there's no such thing (although there are areas where certain patterns are more common, usually overlapping other areas).

A really helpful tool for Eurogenes K13 (and many other calculators) is the spreadsheet. You can compare results and compare them to your results, but also remember they are averages, many people unquestionably from the place in question won't be perfect averages, of course.

My K13:

1 North_Atlantic 45.08
2 Baltic 25.78
3 West_Med 12.47
4 West_Asian 7.1
5 East_Med 5.47

Results (more German biased for some reason on this one):

1 North_German 3.52 -- this might be my closest (3.52 is the distance from the average), but so far as I know I'm not really N German at all. I'm part English, which likely includes a component from there, also Welsh, Swedish, and SW German, and probably a little Irish and French. It averages to look like North German.
2 West_German 5.03
3 South_Dutch 5.27

I get a much closer distance with a whole bunch of other possible combinations, but that doesn't mean any of these are ancestries I have, they are possible explanations. For example:

1 60.5% North_German + 39.5% West_German @ 1.66
2 94% North_German + 6% Sardinian @ 1.72 -- I'm not Sardinian at all, I think I have some Southern bits in my English and especially SW German, and note also that 6% isn't very high.

19 72.2% Irish + 27.8% Serbian @ 2.08 -- this is way far down on the list, but note that the distance isn't all that much farther and closer than many people with this actual combination would be. And again, I'm not very Irish, if at all, and not Serbian at all. But starting with a base of Irish (pretty far west, somewhat north), a little south and east is needed to incorporate some of my other components, so this is one of many possible options.

Now going to the spreadsheet, I'll compare Danish, SE English, N German, Norwegian, in that order:

North Atlantic: 50/50.5/47.2/51.1
Baltic: 26.6/23.3/27.4/28.6
West Med: 10.4/14/10.3/9.9
East Med: 3.6/5.1/4.2/1.7
West Asian: 5.7/4.5/7.1/5.6

As you can see, they are pretty close for their average numbers, someone could be one and look more like the average of the other (so lower distance) and a mix will confuse everything.

waltematec
08-16-2018, 11:06 PM
Well, it confused me for sure! haha

timberwolf
08-16-2018, 11:12 PM
Delete

timberwolf
08-16-2018, 11:14 PM
I just ran that the other day, and that's exactly where I am.

What tool was that?

waltematec
08-17-2018, 12:03 AM
So I did the Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 4-Ancestors Oracle, and I definitely see what you're saying. You're saying these groupings are not specific countries, but regions. and they try to average those regions together to get an idea of what countries fall in that average?

K15 seems very similar, BTW Germany, France, and Scandinavia... (noticeably Norwegian moved up on the list with the 3 extra components, and Swedish now shows up now as well.)
But I kinda get what you're saying about the averages and regions now.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 32.99
2 Atlantic 24.36
3 West_Med 11.50
4 Baltic 10.63
5 East_Med 7.48
6 West_Asian 6.26
7 Eastern_Euro 5.36


Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 West_German @ 4.378148
2 South_Dutch @ 6.574152
3 French @ 7.741488
4 Southwest_English @ 8.609106
5 Southeast_English @ 9.351361
6 North_German @ 9.708220
7 North_Dutch @ 10.572934
8 Danish @ 11.100850
9 Irish @ 11.326626
10 West_Scottish @ 11.946429
11 Orcadian @ 12.172682
12 Norwegian @ 13.370405
13 East_German @ 13.838302
14 Swedish @ 13.917213
15 West_Norwegian @ 14.595817
16 Spanish_Galicia @ 16.161987
17 Spanish_Cataluna @ 16.552038
18 Hungarian @ 16.712236
19 North_Swedish @ 16.831854
20 Austrian @ 16.891132

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% French +50% West_German @ 4.368559


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Orcadian +25% Tuscan +25% West_German @ 3.385992


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Greek_Thessaly + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 3.154168
2 Orcadian + Tuscan + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.213120
3 North_Dutch + Orcadian + Tuscan + West_German @ 3.229957
4 Irish + Tuscan + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.285484
5 Greek_Thessaly + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southeast_English @ 3.315670
6 Greek_Thessaly + North_Dutch + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 3.321112
7 Greek_Thessaly + Orcadian + Orcadian + West_German @ 3.357641
8 Orcadian + Swedish + Tuscan + West_German @ 3.359070
9 Orcadian + Orcadian + Tuscan + West_German @ 3.385992
10 Orcadian + South_Italian + Southwest_English + West_Norwegian @ 3.387911
11 Central_Greek + Orcadian + Southwest_English + West_Norwegian @ 3.398504
12 Greek_Thessaly + Orcadian + Southeast_English + Southwest_English @ 3.398959
13 Southeast_English + Tuscan + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.399822
14 Tuscan + West_German + West_Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 3.411001
15 Greek_Thessaly + Orcadian + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.416556
16 Greek_Thessaly + Irish + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 3.428854
17 Norwegian + Orcadian + Tuscan + West_German @ 3.443481
18 Orcadian + Orcadian + South_Italian + West_Norwegian @ 3.464891
19 North_Dutch + Tuscan + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.469341
20 Greek_Thessaly + Orcadian + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 3.477099

msmarjoribanks
08-17-2018, 12:04 AM
What tool was that?

I saw it on Eupedia when this site seemed to be down yesterday, but I recall a thread that was similar here once upon a time.

This: http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/Europe.htm

And to plot it on a map: https://www.darrinward.com/lat-long/

timberwolf
08-17-2018, 12:35 AM
I saw it on Eupedia when this site seemed to be down yesterday, but I recall a thread that was similar here once upon a time.

This: http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/Europe.htm

And to plot it on a map: https://www.darrinward.com/lat-long/

Thanks I seem to plot to Pembrokeshire Wales.

msmarjoribanks
08-17-2018, 02:32 AM
My dad plots to the southern tip of the Peak District National Park, just a little east of Stoke-on-Trent.

My mom is in the North Sea just north of the Netherlands.

25313

I'm in the North Sea, pretty much half way between my parents.

25314

spruithean
08-17-2018, 02:47 AM
My dad plots to the southern tip of the Peak District National Park, just a little east of Stoke-on-Trent.

My mom is in the North Sea just north of the Netherlands.

25313

I'm in the North Sea, pretty much half way between my parents.

25314

I feel like our parents would have similar results, considering we both landed in the North Sea. My mother's family being entirely Dutch and my father's being mostly UK+Irish (distant French and German, but I doubt it has any influence) it would make sense.

Next I wonder how we stack up compared to the Ancient Samples similarity tool. I know Bollox79 and I had Rathlin and Hinxton4 switched, though I show a higher similarity to 6DRIF18.

msmarjoribanks
08-17-2018, 11:23 AM
Just did this recently so was easy to find.

I have Rathlin1 higher than Hinxton4, but like you am more similar to 6DRIF18 (86). I have two other closer ones. Guess the Poland one (#2) is from the Unetice culture.

Overall, my top ancient samples were:

91: 2,400 BC - Germany - I0118
87: 1,789 BC - Poland - Rise150
86: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF18
85:2,000 BC - Ireland - Rathlin1
83: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF2
83: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF3
82: 200 AD - Gladiator - 3DRIF16
82: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF21
82: 500 AD - Bavaria - AED 249
81: 2,250 BC - Germany (BB ) - I0112
80: 1,900? BC - Czeck (Unet.) - Rise577
79: 0 BC - England - Hinxton4

82: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF21 is an L21-DF63 YDNA like my dad, though, which was exciting since DF63 is pretty rare compared to some other subclades of L21.

spruithean
08-17-2018, 11:58 AM
Just did this recently so was easy to find.

I have Rathlin1 higher than Hinxton4, but like you am more similar to 6DRIF18 (86). I have two other closer ones. Guess the Poland one (#2) is from the Unetice culture.

Overall, my top ancient samples were:

91: 2,400 BC - Germany - I0118
87: 1,789 BC - Poland - Rise150
86: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF18
85:2,000 BC - Ireland - Rathlin1
83: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF2
83: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF3
82: 200 AD - Gladiator - 3DRIF16
82: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF21
82: 500 AD - Bavaria - AED 249
81: 2,250 BC - Germany (BB ) - I0112
80: 1,900? BC - Czeck (Unet.) - Rise577
79: 0 BC - England - Hinxton4

82: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF21 is an L21-DF63 YDNA like my dad, though, which was exciting since DF63 is pretty rare compared to some other subclades of L21.

Interesting, my top similarities are:
84: 1,789 BC - Poland - Rise150
84: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF18
82: 0 BC - England - Hinxton4
82: 1,900? BC - Czeck (Unet.) - Rise577
81: 2,400 BC - Germany - I0118
81: 0,700 BC - Estonia - Rise97
81: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF3
81: 500 AD - Bavaria - STR355
80: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF21
80: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF16
79: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF22
79: 2,250 BC - Germany (BB) - I0112
79: 500 AD - Bavaria - AED249

Rathlin1 comes in at 78 for me along with 6DRIF22. Last I had read some think 6DRIF18 was Gaelic (either from Scotland or Ireland), but I'm not so sure.

I did not know that 6DRIF21 was R-DF63, that's exciting!

Sort of funny how the one ancient sample (NO3423) from Britain who is at least on the same branch of the Y-tree as me has only a score of 75 :laugh:

FionnSneachta
08-17-2018, 12:56 PM
I saw it on Eupedia when this site seemed to be down yesterday, but I recall a thread that was similar here once upon a time.

This: http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/Europe.htm

And to plot it on a map: https://www.darrinward.com/lat-long/

It puts me East of Newcastle in the sea. My dad is in Poulton-le-Fylde near Manchester and my mum is near Cambridge.

msmarjoribanks
08-17-2018, 02:02 PM
The funny thing about the map plotter is that my parents and I are all almost exactly the same latitute, just above 53 degrees north. We just vary on west to east.

FionnSneachta
08-17-2018, 07:29 PM
I re-did it on my computer and got slightly different results for Dad and I. I must have inputted the data slightly wrong on my phone. I'm near Southery (54.229406542000014, -0.7238457959999849), my dad's near Shawbury (52.783959578000015, -2.5594184859999984), and my mum's near Pickering (52.512644439999995, 0.345601414000015). I've included a map since I might as well while I'm at it. My dad's the only one who is within the 400 km radius.

25319

timberwolf
08-17-2018, 07:47 PM
Just did this recently so was easy to find.

I have Rathlin1 higher than Hinxton4, but like you am more similar to 6DRIF18 (86). I have two other closer ones. Guess the Poland one (#2) is from the Unetice culture.

Overall, my top ancient samples were:

91: 2,400 BC - Germany - I0118
87: 1,789 BC - Poland - Rise150
86: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF18
85:2,000 BC - Ireland - Rathlin1
83: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF2
83: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF3
82: 200 AD - Gladiator - 3DRIF16
82: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF21
82: 500 AD - Bavaria - AED 249
81: 2,250 BC - Germany (BB ) - I0112
80: 1,900? BC - Czeck (Unet.) - Rise577
79: 0 BC - England - Hinxton4

82: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF21 is an L21-DF63 YDNA like my dad, though, which was exciting since DF63 is pretty rare compared to some other subclades of L21.

OK how can I find that thread.

msmarjoribanks
08-18-2018, 02:46 AM
This thread: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?10813-Tool-for-K36-your-similarities-rates-on-maps

You access it on the same site as the map similarities. I think they come up off and on through the thread, most recently starting about 5 pages from the end, perhaps?

JMcB
08-18-2018, 04:45 AM
Curiously, I seem to be futher away on most of the comparisons, than others are. With 3Driff-16 scoring the highest for me. Which may make sense as Davidski believes he’s mixed and all these calculators seem to be reading my English as Continental. Pulling me into France, Germany and the Netherlands, which isn’t anything recent but also isn’t surprising. All things considered.


NorthWest Europe
2,000 BC - Ireland - Rathlin1 = 71
0 BC - England - Hinxton4 = 68
200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF18 = 79
200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF21 = 72
200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF23 = 75
200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF22 = 76
200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF3 = 71
200 AD - Gladiator - 3DRIF16 = 86
200 AD - Gladiator - 3DRIF26 = 70
750 AD - England - NO3423 = 73

Central Europe
2,400 BC - Germany - I0118 = 80
1,900? BC - Czeck (Unet.) - Rise577 = 83
1,200 BC - Hungary - BR2 = 81

Bavaria
Non ACD
500 AD - Bavaria STR 355 = 79

Eurogenes:

“The rest of the headless Romans were, in all likelihood, born and raised in or near Britain. However, two of the individuals, 3DRIF-16 and 6DRIF-3, show elevated IBS affinity to Lithuanians and Poles. At the same time, they both belong to Y-chromosome haplogroup R1b-U106 (aka M405), which is a marker generally thought to have arrived in Britain with Anglo-Saxons and Scandinavians. This might be a coincidence, but probably not.

D-stats confirm that they do show elevated Northeastern European affinity relative to the other three Romans. Only one of the Z-scores is statistically significant (>3), but most of the others would probably also reach significance with more SNPs and higher quality sequences ...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-R91h8XEvfPg/VqRDlhTSHPI/AAAAAAAAD7M/G8QIr51Qwss/s665/England_Roman_U106_eastern_signal.png

My guess is that 3DRIF-16 and 6DRIF-3 were Britons of mixed origin, with recent ancestry from Scandinavia and/or East Central Europe. Indeed, they can be modeled with qpAdm as part Swedish and Polish.

England_Roman 0.869
Swedish 0.131
chisq 1.784 tail prob 0.775339

England_Roman 0.884
Polish 0.116
chisq 1.971 tail prob 0.741124”

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2016/01/the-enigmatic-headless-romans-from-york.html

timberwolf
08-18-2018, 05:17 AM
OK mine Scores of 80 or above

North/NE Europe

2300 BC Denmark Rise 61 81
1789 BC Poland Rise 150 80

Central Europe

1900 BC Czech (unet) Rise 577 87
2400 BC Germany 11018 83
2250 BC Germany BB 11012 81

Northwest Europe

200AD Gladiator 6DRIF18 83
200AD Gladiator 6DRIF23 82
200AD Gladiator 3DRIF16 80

Bollox79
08-18-2018, 06:21 AM
Interesting, my top similarities are:
84: 1,789 BC - Poland - Rise150
84: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF18
82: 0 BC - England - Hinxton4
82: 1,900? BC - Czeck (Unet.) - Rise577
81: 2,400 BC - Germany - I0118
81: 0,700 BC - Estonia - Rise97
81: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF3
81: 500 AD - Bavaria - STR355
80: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF21
80: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF16
79: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF22
79: 2,250 BC - Germany (BB) - I0112
79: 500 AD - Bavaria - AED249

Rathlin1 comes in at 78 for me along with 6DRIF22. Last I had read some think 6DRIF18 was Gaelic (either from Scotland or Ireland), but I'm not so sure.

I did not know that 6DRIF21 was R-DF63, that's exciting!

Sort of funny how the one ancient sample (NO3423) from Britain who is at least on the same branch of the Y-tree as me has only a score of 75 :laugh:

I noticed my username earlier in the thread (!) and thought I'd post the results again for the record... we are all rather similar - spruithean you and I have a Gaelic Irish/Scottish side and a Dutch German side right? My Mom's is the former (she has 2nd cousins in Ireland - and 3rd cousins from the Highlands/Hebrides) and while my Dad's father's side has Scots-Irish from PA, also on his father's side and especially on his mother's side we have Dutch (PA Dutch), German and Baltic German aka Scandinavian and Finland etc plus a few from Russia (5th cousins from those countries)...

Here are my highest scores:
2,400 BC - Germany - I0118 = 87
200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF18 = 85
1,789 BC - Poland - Rise150 = 84
2,000 BC - Ireland - Rathlin1 = 83
500 AD - Bavaria - AED 249 = 83
2,250 BC - Germany (B B) - I0112 = 83
200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF3 = 82
200 AD - Gladiator - 3DRIF16 = 82
200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF21 = 81
200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF23 = 80

Also note my relationship per the Y-DNA with 6drif-3 in my signature (he is "within" two SNPs of my "modern" day matches, which are just plain old!)... taking into consideration the autosomal and Y-DNA - I'm closest to him if you take all that into consideration...

Edit: my hinxton 0 AD was 77...

Here is my K13 for the thread creator:

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 44.89
2 Baltic 23.73
3 West_Med 13.61
4 West_Asian 8.64
5 East_Med 4.85

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 West_German 4.42
2 South_Dutch 4.44
3 North_German 5.38
4 Southeast_English 6.3
5 North_Dutch 6.71
6 Danish 6.78
7 Orcadian 6.88
8 Irish 7.54
9 Southwest_English 7.74
10 West_Scottish 8.33

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 74.7% Irish + 25.3% Romanian @ 2.02



Using 1 population approximation:
1 South_Dutch @ 4.919536
2 West_German @ 5.003266
3 North_German @ 5.966847
4 Southeast_English @ 7.196976
5 North_Dutch @ 7.601779
6 Danish @ 7.658591
7 Orcadian @ 7.918227
8 Irish @ 8.657854
9 Southwest_English @ 8.807072
10 West_Scottish @ 9.584450

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% North_German +50% West_German @ 3.224176


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +25% Irish +25% Romanian @ 2.141354


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Irish + Irish + Irish + Romanian @ 2.141354

and my K15

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 36.64
2 Atlantic 22.06
3 Baltic 9.98
4 Eastern_Euro 9.88
5 West_Med 9.86
6 West_Asian 6.26


Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 West_German 4.84
2 North_Dutch 6.27
3 Norwegian 6.54
4 Danish 6.86
5 Southwest_English 6.96
6 North_German 7.37
7 Southeast_English 7.48
8 West_Norwegian 7.65
9 Orcadian 7.75
10 Swedish 7.76

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 65.4% West_German + 34.6% West_Norwegian @ 3.14

Using 1 population approximation:
1 West_German @ 5.563033
2 North_Dutch @ 7.146475
3 Norwegian @ 7.506889
4 Danish @ 7.829026
5 Southwest_English @ 8.030698
6 North_German @ 8.410723
7 Southeast_English @ 8.685386
8 Swedish @ 8.807418
9 West_Norwegian @ 8.826406
10 Orcadian @ 8.946053

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Norwegian +50% West_German @ 3.793566


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% West_German +25% West_German +25% West_Norwegian @ 3.745367


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Norwegian + Orcadian + West_German + West_German @ 3.712428

FionnSneachta
08-18-2018, 10:31 AM
This thread: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?10813-Tool-for-K36-your-similarities-rates-on-maps

You access it on the same site as the map similarities. I think they come up off and on through the thread, most recently starting about 5 pages from the end, perhaps?

Thank you! Here are my highest scores:
89: 1,789 BC - Poland - Rise150
87: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF18
85: 2,000 BC - Ireland - Rathlin1
85: 2,250 BC - Germany (BB) - I0112
85: 1,900? BC - Czeck (Unet.) - Rise577
84: 750 AD - England - NO3423
83: 0 BC - England - Hinxton4
82: 2,400 BC - Germany - I0118
82: 2,153 BC - Sweden - Rise98
82: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF23
81: 500 AD - Bavaria - AED 249
81: 1,950 BC - Estonia - Rise97
80: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF3
80: 2,000 BC - Sintashta - Rise392
80: 2,500 BC - Sweden - Rise94
80: 0,519 BC - Sweden - Rise174
80: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF21

I've also included the similarity map with different populations. It came up as quite accurate for me.

25325

Jessie
08-18-2018, 12:01 PM
My highest scores with the ancient genomes are:

91 1,789 BC - Poland - Rise150
83 2,000 BC - Ireland - Rathlin 1
82 1,900? BC - Czeck (Unet) - 10047
81 1,950 BC - Estonia - Rise97
81 2,250 BC - Germany (BB) - 10112
81 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF18
81 750 AD- England NO3423
80 500 AD - Bavaria - AED 249
80 0 BC - England Hinxton4

JonikW
08-18-2018, 12:15 PM
Anyone else get Rise577 as top match? Would be interested in your background if so. I then have 6DRIF18 followed by Hinxton 4.

Finn
08-18-2018, 12:33 PM
My dad plots to the southern tip of the Peak District National Park, just a little east of Stoke-on-Trent.

My mom is in the North Sea just north of the Netherlands.

25313



Hey welcome!:biggrin1: #infrontofthedoor

msmarjoribanks
08-18-2018, 12:42 PM
Anyone else get Rise577 as top match? Would be interested in your background if so. I then have 6DRIF18 followed by Hinxton 4.

I didn't write down my dad's Rise577, which probably means he was below 80, but I'll check.

His top was 6DRIF18 (at 88), followed by RISE150, but unlike me he has Hinxton4 ahead of Rathlin1. 6DRIF18 and Hinxton4 are both ones he scored higher than me on. Worth mentioning (given your background) since his background is about a quarter Welsh and otherwise almost all English (little French, maybe a little German or Dutch way back).

The added ancestry I have and my dad doesn't is Scots-Irish (and the way I'm using that term, I mean people who came from Ireland and I either trace them to Ulster or know they were Presbyterian, or both) and German (although my dad has some ancestry from SE England), plus Swedish. My mom also has English, but no Welsh that I know of.

FionnSneachta
08-18-2018, 01:55 PM
Anyone else get Rise577 as top match? Would be interested in your background if so. I then have 6DRIF18 followed by Hinxton 4.

I just checked my dad and his highest match is Rise577. He's Irish.

My dad's are quite different to mine actually:
85: 1,900? BC - Czeck (Unet.) - Rise577
83: 1,789 BC - Poland - Rise150
82: 500 AD - Bavaria - STR 355
82: 0 BC - England - Hinxton4
82: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF18
82: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF21
82: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF23
82: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF3
81: 200 AD - Gladiator - 3DRIF16
81: 2,300 BC - Denmark - Rise61
81: 2,250 BC - Germany (BB) - I0112
80: 2,400 BC - Germany - I0118
80: 2,000 BC - Ireland - Rathlin1

25337

These are my mum's:
87: 1,789 BC - Poland - Rise150
87: 200 AD - Gladiator - 625333DRIF18
87: 2,400 BC - Germany - I0118
85: 2,250 BC - Germany (BB) - I0112
85: 2,000 BC - Ireland - Rathlin1
82: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF23
82: 0 BC - England - Hinxton4
80: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF22
80: 1,900? BC - Czeck (Unet.) - Rise577
80: 1,950 BC - Estonia - Rise97

25336

These are my dad's aunt's:
85: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF23
84: 1,789 BC - Poland - Rise150
81: 0 BC - England - Hinxton4
80: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF22

25335

Jessie
08-18-2018, 01:58 PM
I just checked my dad and his highest match is Rise577. He's Irish.

My dad's are quite different to mine actually:
85: 1,900? BC - Czeck (Unet.) - Rise577
83: 1,789 BC - Poland - Rise150
82: 500 AD - Bavaria - STR 355
82: 0 BC - England - Hinxton4
82: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF18
82: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF21
82: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF23
82: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF3
81: 200 AD - Gladiator - 3DRIF16
81: 2,300 BC - Denmark - Rise61
81: 2,250 BC - Germany (BB) - I0112
80: 2,400 BC - Germany - I0118
80: 2,000 BC - Ireland - Rathlin1

These are my mum's:
87: 1,789 BC - Poland - Rise150
87: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF18
87: 2,400 BC - Germany - I0118
85: 2,250 BC - Germany (BB) - I0112
85: 2,000 BC - Ireland - Rathlin1
82: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF23
82: 0 BC - England - Hinxton4
80: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF22
80: 1,900? BC - Czeck (Unet.) - Rise577
80: 1,950 BC - Estonia - Rise97

These are my dad's aunt's:
85: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF23
84: 1,789 BC - Poland - Rise150
81: 0 BC - England - Hinxton4
80: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF22

Interesting that so many of us match either Rise150 or R577 as both of these are part of Unetice.

spruithean
08-18-2018, 02:16 PM
I noticed my username earlier in the thread (!) and thought I'd post the results again for the record... we are all rather similar - spruithean you and I have a Gaelic Irish/Scottish side and a Dutch German side right? My Mom's is the former (she has 2nd cousins in Ireland - and 3rd cousins from the Highlands/Hebrides) and while my Dad's father's side has Scots-Irish from PA, also on his father's side and especially on his mother's side we have Dutch (PA Dutch), German and Baltic German aka Scandinavian and Finland etc plus a few from Russia (5th cousins from those countries)...

Here are my highest scores:
2,400 BC - Germany - I0118 = 87
200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF18 = 85
1,789 BC - Poland - Rise150 = 84
2,000 BC - Ireland - Rathlin1 = 83
500 AD - Bavaria - AED 249 = 83
2,250 BC - Germany (B B) - I0112 = 83
200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF3 = 82
200 AD - Gladiator - 3DRIF16 = 82
200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF21 = 81
200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF23 = 80

Also note my relationship per the Y-DNA with 6drif-3 in my signature (he is "within" two SNPs of my "modern" day matches, which are just plain old!)... taking into consideration the autosomal and Y-DNA - I'm closest to him if you take all that into consideration...

Edit: my hinxton 0 AD was 77...



Yes, we have pretty similar ancestry. My dad's paternal grandmother was from an Irish family with roots in Co. Cork (not too far from where they settled is the modern North American Gaeltacht), his paternal grandfather is from a family of mixed early Scottish settlers of Canada, a few lines documented to be Gaelic speakers, Ulster Presbyterians, some English and some French. His maternal side is heavily from Donegal, Tipperary and Offaly as well as Southern England including Cornwall.

My maternal side has origins in Zuid-Holland and Groningen to keep it simple.

So far the only aDNA sample to be on the same branch of I1 as me (and JMcB and a few others) is SBT-A1 from the Iceland study. He belonged to I-F2642 (still quite a bit upstream from us). I would love to see SBT-A1's data on GEDmatch to compare autosomally, he seemed to be high in British Isles ancestry and less Norse than the other Icelanders.

JonikW
08-18-2018, 03:46 PM
So far the only aDNA sample to be on the same branch of I1 as me (and JMcB and a few others) is SBT-A1 from the Iceland study. He belonged to I-F2642 (still quite a bit upstream from us). I would love to see SBT-A1's data on GEDmatch to compare autosomally, he seemed to be high in British Isles ancestry and less Norse than the other Icelanders.

Don't want to hijack this thread but would like to add my voice to this appeal as I'm on the same branch as spruithean, JMcB and the others. I'd love to see how the ancient Icelander breaks down.

JMcB
08-18-2018, 04:28 PM
Originally Posted by spruithean:
So far the only aDNA sample to be on the same branch of I1 as me (and JMcB and a few others) is SBT-A1 from the Iceland study. He belonged to I-F2642 (still quite a bit upstream from us). I would love to see SBT-A1's data on GEDmatch to compare autosomally, he seemed to be high in British Isles ancestry and less Norse than the other Icelanders.



Don't want to hijack this thread but would like to add my voice to this appeal as I'm on the same branch as spruithean, JMcB and the others. I'd love to see how the ancient Icelander breaks down.

Needless to say, I’ll third that! B)

timberwolf
08-18-2018, 07:56 PM
Anyone else get Rise577 as top match? Would be interested in your background if so. I then have 6DRIF18 followed by Hinxton 4.

Yes. Mostly Cornish, the rest Isles

Hammer
08-18-2018, 08:25 PM
On the similiarity map I come out with the highest scores (85+) at 4 points - West Germany, North Germany, Denmark and Southern Sweden. For the ancient genomes I notice my similarity scores are lower than most posted here. I only have one with a score of 80 which is Gladiator 3DRIF16. The 2nd highest score is 79 and I have it for Rise150 and Bavaria NW255. I suspect that my particular Central European mix with a strong NW component and a lesser but still sizable E/SE component was rarely seen before the Middle Ages.

msmarjoribanks
08-18-2018, 08:30 PM
I didn't write down my dad's Rise577, which probably means he was below 80, but I'll check.

His top was 6DRIF18 (at 88), followed by RISE150, but unlike me he has Hinxton4 ahead of Rathlin1. 6DRIF18 and Hinxton4 are both ones he scored higher than me on. Worth mentioning (given your background) since his background is about a quarter Welsh and otherwise almost all English (little French, maybe a little German or Dutch way back).

The added ancestry I have and my dad doesn't is Scots-Irish (and the way I'm using that term, I mean people who came from Ireland and I either trace them to Ulster or know they were Presbyterian, or both) and German (although my dad has some ancestry from SE England), plus Swedish. My mom also has English, but no Welsh that I know of.

Following up, I reran my dad's, and I did miss his Rise577 results. It was actually tied for his highest with 6DRIF18, both with 88.

His third isn't Hinxton4, though. It's:

3) 1,789 BC - Poland - Rise150 (with 84)
4) 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF23 (with 83)
Tie for 5) 0 BC - England - Hinxton4, 2,400 BC - Germany - I0118, 2,250 BC - Germany (BB) - I0112, and his fellow DF63: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF21 (all with 82)

msmarjoribanks
08-18-2018, 08:36 PM
On the similiarity map I come out with the highest scores (85+) at 4 points - West Germany, North Germany, Denmark and Southern Sweden. For the ancient genomes I notice my similarity scores are lower than most posted here. I only have one with a score of 80 which is Gladiator 3DRIF16. The 2nd highest score is 79 and I have it for Rise150 and Bavaria NW255. I suspect that my particular Central European mix with a strong NW component and a lesser but still sizable E/SE component was rarely seen before the Middle Ages.

Yeah, it's interesting that people with likely a good bit of Celtic ancestry (or whatever we want to call it) are scoring the highest similarity scores with ancient samples so far, not only the British Isles ones, but some of the German ones and Rise150 and 577, which as noted above are Unetice.

For what it's worth, my similarity scores on the map are highest in the southern part of Ireland (92), Wales (90), Northern Ireland (88), 2 spots in Scotland (88), and SE England (88). Next highest are NE France (86), Northern Germany (85), the Netherlands (85), and Denmark (85).

msmarjoribanks
08-18-2018, 08:37 PM
waltematec, hope you don't mind all this in the thread you started. You might enjoy some of these additional tools too, although I know it can be overwhelming at first.

timberwolf
08-18-2018, 08:57 PM
On the similarity map scores of 80 or more
Wales, Northern Ireland and Ireland 89
SE England 87
Brittany 86
Scotland 86
Normandy , Netherlands 83
Northern Scotland,Belgium 82
North East France 81

timberwolf
08-18-2018, 09:21 PM
Also when I remove the following areas

Without Wales Brittany is the highest on 63
Without Northern Ireland South and Southwest France 41
Without Ireland looks like Aosta 62

Helgenes50
08-19-2018, 05:40 AM
On the similarity map scores of 80 or more
Wales, Northern Ireland and Ireland 89
SE England 87
Brittany 86
Scotland 86
Normandy , Netherlands 83
Northern Scotland,Belgium 82
North East France 81

Timberwolf,

I don't remember, are you 100 % Cornish ?

JonikW
08-19-2018, 05:44 AM
I get 92 for Wales and England, 91 for both parts of Ireland and 89 for Scotland.

timberwolf
08-19-2018, 06:47 AM
Timberwolf,

I don't remember, are you 100 % Cornish ?

No mate.

Fully Cornish on my fathers side, on my mothers side they were a mix of people mainly from Gloucestershire, Oxfordshire, Suffolk and Ulster, probably originally Scots. Possible French Calvinists from wayyyyy back.

waltematec
08-20-2018, 12:21 AM
waltematec, hope you don't mind all this in the thread you started. You might enjoy some of these additional tools too, although I know it can be overwhelming at first.

Hey! No, it's all good!

chelle
08-20-2018, 08:12 PM
Can one of you please post a link for doing the ancient comparison. Thanks.

timberwolf
08-20-2018, 08:17 PM
Can one of you please post a link for doing the ancient comparison. Thanks.

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/ancient.htm

chelle
08-20-2018, 11:40 PM
Wow. I just ran it for my dad, my mom and myself. My dad's highest was 200 AD- Gladiator- 6DRIF18 at 90.

Dad top ten
90- 200 AD_Gladiator-6DRIF18
84- 200 AD- Gladiator-6DRIF3
83- 1,900 BC?-Czech-RISE577
82-0 BC-England-Hinxton4
82-1,789 BC-Poland-RISE150
81-200 AD-Gladiator-6DRIF22
80-200 AD- Gladiator-6DRIF23
80-500 AD-Bavaria-STR355
80-2,400 BC-Germany-10118
80-2,250 BC-Germany-10112


Mom top 3

70-500 AD-Bavaria-NW 54
68-1,200 BC-Hungary-BR2
67-200 AD-Gladiator-6DRIF22

My Top

77-2,400 BC-Germany-10118
76-200 AD-Gladiator-6DRIF18
75-200 AD-Gladiator-6DRIF23
75-200 AD-Gladiator-6DRIF22
73-500 AD-Bavaria- NW 54
71-0 BC-England-Hinxton4
70-200 AD-Gladiator-3DRIF16

For Rathlin1 my dad got 78, my mom 52 and I got 65

For the world map plotting my dad got England, my mom got Italy and I got France.

waltematec
08-26-2018, 04:43 AM
That's just because the current LivingDNA pool is biased toward the UK, and your ancestry (Scandinavian and German) is quite similar to English ancestry. I suspect that 23andMe would give different results, for example, and that the LivingDNA will change when the German project is added.

Sorry to bump thread, but is there any indication when the “German Project” might be added?

msmarjoribanks
08-26-2018, 12:11 PM
Sadly, no. I think the latest we heard was 40% done, but I am neither confident in that nor aware of what it means for timing.

waltematec
08-29-2018, 06:54 PM
UPDATE:

My dad recently got his results back. It seems very similar to mine. It seems like both Norway and Denmark are on both sides of my family. Here's my dad's Eurogenes K15 results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 31.73
2 Atlantic 22.66
3 Baltic 12.59
4 Eastern_Euro 10.71
5 West_Med 8.84
6 East_Med 6.85
7 West_Asian 6.24


Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 West_German @ 5.083359
2 South_Dutch @ 6.678028
3 North_German @ 7.372580
4 East_German @ 9.167355
5 Danish @ 9.551432
6 North_Dutch @ 9.814690
7 Southwest_English @ 10.273932
8 Southeast_English @ 10.345680
9 French @ 10.763238
10 Norwegian @ 11.228837
11 Swedish @ 11.292773
12 Irish @ 11.774550
13 West_Scottish @ 12.166616
14 Hungarian @ 12.219138
15 North_Swedish @ 12.271919
16 Austrian @ 12.839333
17 Orcadian @ 13.199605
18 West_Norwegian @ 13.392946
19 Southwest_Finnish @ 15.263959
20 Serbian @ 15.890607

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Serbian +50% West_Norwegian @ 3.034121


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Danish +25% Romanian +25% West_German @ 2.000452


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Greek + North_German + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 1.509489
2 Danish + Greek + Swedish + West_Norwegian @ 1.572911
3 Greek + North_German + Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 1.604588
4 Bulgarian + Danish + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 1.621356
5 Danish + Greek + Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 1.627268
6 Danish + Greek + Norwegian + Norwegian @ 1.711975
7 Danish + Greek + Norwegian + Swedish @ 1.782780
8 Greek + North_Dutch + Norwegian + Norwegian @ 1.795938
9 Greek + North_Dutch + Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 1.800667
10 Greek + North_German + Swedish + West_Norwegian @ 1.804968
11 North_German + Romanian + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 1.849135
12 Danish + Norwegian + Romanian + West_German @ 1.851492
13 Greek + North_Dutch + Swedish + West_Norwegian @ 1.858201
14 Danish + Romanian + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 1.863991
15 Greek + North_Swedish + Orcadian + West_Norwegian @ 1.910416
16 Bulgarian + Danish + Norwegian + West_German @ 1.921723
17 Greek + North_Swedish + West_Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 1.924277
18 Greek + North_Dutch + Norwegian + Swedish @ 1.926739
19 Greek + North_Dutch + North_Swedish + West_Norwegian @ 1.930241
20 Danish + Greek + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 1.943472

msmarjoribanks
08-29-2018, 07:25 PM
Interesting to compare yourself to your dad. I put them together (you first):

1 North_Sea 32.99/31.73
2 Atlantic 24.36/22.66
3 West_Med 11.50/8.84
4 Baltic 10.63/12.59
5 East_Med 7.48/6.85
6 West_Asian 6.26/6.24
7 Eastern_Euro 5.36/10.71

So your dad is a bit lower in North Sea, and lower in Atlantic and East and West Med. He's higher in Baltic and Eastern Europe.

The oracle puts West_German closest for both, but your distance is less. Your dad has North and East_German higher than you, whereas you get some areas that touch the Atlantic (the SW and SE England, France) much higher than he does.

Looking at the spreadsheet, 35% North Sea is the SW and SE England number, the German results are a bit lower (not a lot), and West_Norway and Sweden are higher (42 and 39). Scandinavian countries and Germany seem to be in the low 20s for Atlantic, whereas British Isles are high 20s. Your and your dad's West Med are consistent with the British Isles and German results, would be high for Scandinavia. SE and SW England are just under 10 for Baltic, Scandinavia tends to be 12-15, and Germany is all over the place depending on region, but West_Germany is lower, around 10. Eastern Europe varies again, with the SW and SE England in the 8s (so is Ireland, France is lower, a bit over 6), Germany ranging from 8 to around 13, and the Scandinavian countries ranging but on the higher end (10-12).

Based on all that, your dad seems like a good fit for German despite your distance being slightly lower, and I can see why you get English results even if it's really from a mix of German + Scandinavian and French (if I'm understanding correctly what you said about your mother's ancestry).

waltematec
08-29-2018, 08:15 PM
My papertrail research has turned up primarily Germany, and a bit Denmark on my Dad’s side. And France/Normandy on my mom’s side. There’s a few missing branches on both sides though. And also, that’s only in the last 250 years or so. I can’t find any more records before that.

My mtDNA shows heavy Norwegian/Saami which following my motherline through papertrail, it leads me to Normandy which makes sense, but I can’t find anything before that.

Also, my Autosomal is higher for Scandinavia than for Germany. My dad’s Germany is higher than Scandinavia, but not by much.

Dewsloth
08-29-2018, 10:57 PM
Oh neat. This really coincides with the info I learned about through my Geneology! (Mostly the areas of Germany/France/Denmark) I didn’t really find anyone from Netherlands or the Baltics in my geneology, but the Baltics are definitely on my LivingDNA results (As is Spain, Portugal, and Tuscany). I assume the Norway on my mom’s side is back too far to register? It does show up eventually but it’s all the way down at #17, but I do recognize some other areas that were settled by Norwegians higher on the list, like Orcadian and West Scottish. Some of it doesn’t make sense though like the south Asian and west Asian. But a lot of the stuff on this list looks familiar from LivingDNA in general. I like that the 2 population is pretty much 50/50 German/French! Haha

Here’s the results for K13:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 45.62
2 Baltic 19.41
3 West_Med 15.31
4 East_Med 12.35
5 West_Asian 4.69
6 South_Asian 1.35


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 West_German 6.027289
2 South_Dutch 6.290088
3 French 6.571717
4 Southeast_English 9.676806
5 Southwest_English 11.919295
6 Orcadian 12.799432
7 North_German 12.799870
8 Danish 13.177041
9 North_Dutch 13.352849
10 Spanish_Cataluna 13.712713
11 West_Scottish 14.033890
12 Irish 14.051699
13 Austrian 14.413273
14 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 15.356370
15 Portuguese 15.441813
16 Spanish_Galicia 15.946730
17 Norwegian 16.144100
18 East_German 16.474747
19 Spanish_Murcia 16.556217
20 Spanish_Valencia 16.564213

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% French +50% West_German 5.024117


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Southeast_English +25% Southeast_English +25% Tuscan 3.253376


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Tuscan 3.253376
2 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_Sicilian 3.572678
3 Danish + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Tuscan 3.697532
4 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_Scottish + West_Sicilian 3.727157
5 Orcadian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Tuscan 3.757396
6 Orcadian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_Sicilian 3.779670
7 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southwest_English + Tuscan 3.800800
8 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southwest_English + West_Sicilian 3.839069
9 North_Dutch + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Tuscan 3.855370
10 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Tuscan + West_Scottish 3.856048
11 Danish + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_Sicilian 3.919051
12 Italian_Abruzzo + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southeast_English 3.950966
13 Irish + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_Sicilian 3.979858
14 North_Dutch + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_Sicilian 3.995792
15 South_Dutch + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Tuscan 4.005484
16 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Tuscan + West_German 4.026712
17 Irish + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Tuscan 4.035694
18 North_Italian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_German 4.088874
19 Danish + Southeast_English + Southwest_English + West_Sicilian 4.095043
20 North_German + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Tuscan 4.106371

Not too different from my dad in the K13 single population results, but my dad's LivingDNA results are all messed up because it's the very first version and they have never updated the regions at all for him:

1 North_Atlantic 41.92
2 Baltic 20.91
3 West_Med 16.34
4 East_Med 10.86
5 West_Asian 5.89
6 Red_Sea 1.73
7 East_Asian 1.04




Using 1 population approximation:
1 West_German @ 3.921055
2 South_Dutch @ 4.908851
3 French @ 5.166269
4 Austrian @ 10.777630
5 Southeast_English @ 11.203270
6 North_German @ 12.430485
7 Southwest_English @ 13.197951
8 East_German @ 13.219679
9 Spanish_Cataluna @ 13.448897
10 Orcadian @ 13.788218
11 Danish @ 13.862994
12 North_Dutch @ 13.877876
13 Portuguese @ 14.448660
14 Spanish_Galicia @ 14.643453
15 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 14.765676
16 Irish @ 14.970793
17 Hungarian @ 15.021123
18 West_Scottish @ 15.357678
19 Spanish_Murcia @ 16.233757
20 Spanish_Valencia @ 16.484179

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% North_Italian +50% Norwegian @ 2.034168


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% North_Dutch +25% Romanian +25% Spanish_Murcia @ 1.805119


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 North_Dutch + Romanian + Southeast_English + Spanish_Murcia @ 1.503787
2 French + Southeast_English + Swedish + Tuscan @ 1.558017
3 Norwegian + Spanish_Cataluna + Swedish + Tuscan @ 1.604213
4 Bulgarian + North_Dutch + Spanish_Murcia + West_Scottish @ 1.605809
5 Danish + Romanian + Southeast_English + Spanish_Murcia @ 1.626218
6 Norwegian + South_Dutch + South_Dutch + Tuscan @ 1.630196
7 Bulgarian + Danish + Spanish_Murcia + West_Scottish @ 1.644505
8 Norwegian + Romanian + Southeast_English + Spanish_Murcia @ 1.644555
9 Bulgarian + Norwegian + Southeast_English + Spanish_Murcia @ 1.652244
10 Norwegian + South_Dutch + Tuscan + West_German @ 1.664470
11 Austrian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Tuscan @ 1.670765
12 Norwegian + South_Dutch + Southeast_English + West_Sicilian @ 1.694886
13 Spanish_Cataluna + Swedish + Swedish + Tuscan @ 1.699238
14 Austrian + Southeast_English + Southwest_English + Tuscan @ 1.714158
15 French + North_German + Norwegian + Tuscan @ 1.720765
16 North_Dutch + South_Dutch + South_Dutch + Tuscan @ 1.726897
17 Bulgarian + North_Dutch + Orcadian + Spanish_Murcia @ 1.727971
18 North_Dutch + Romanian + Southeast_English + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 1.737603
19 French + North_Dutch + North_German + Tuscan @ 1.741442
20 French + Norwegian + Norwegian + West_Sicilian @ 1.745889

LivingDNA complete results:
Europe 100%
Great Britain and Ireland 71.1%
Southeast England 20.6%
East Anglia 13.6%
Lincolnshire 12.2%
South Central England 9.5%
South Yorkshire 4.7%
Cumbria 2.4%
Northwest Scotland 2.4%
Devon 2.3%
Cornwall 2.2%
North Yorkshire 1.2%
Europe (South) 14.3%
North Italy 11.1%
Aegean 3.2%
Europe (North and West) 8.2%
Scandinavia 8.2%
Europe (East) 6.4%
West Balkans 2.6%
East Balkans 2%
Finland and Western Russia 1.8%


Edit: In the K36 map, Dad plots between Reims and Verdun in N. France.

msmarjoribanks
08-29-2018, 11:34 PM
My papertrail research has turned up primarily Germany, and a bit Denmark on my Dad’s side. And France/Normandy on my mom’s side. There’s a few missing branches on both sides though. And also, that’s only in the last 250 years or so. I can’t find any more records before that.

That's pretty consistent with what the K13 and K15 seem to say too.


My mtDNA shows heavy Norwegian/Saami which following my motherline through papertrail, it leads me to Normandy which makes sense, but I can’t find anything before that.

mtDNA is hard to draw conclusions about, since it moves around so much due to slow mutations. U5 is pretty common throughout Europe, I think. That a high percentage of Saami have it doesn't mean it must be Saami.

For example, my dad's mtDNA is unquestionably traced to a woman born in the 1500s in Suffolk, England. However, he has not only many matches with other descendants of that woman (her daughter and granddaughters came to Massachusetts as part of the Puritan Migration), but also some perfect matches with people in Scandinavia, and many one or two genetic distance matches (who share the same K2b1a1a mtDNA). The intriguing question is who brought it to Suffolk and when.


Also, my Autosomal is higher for Scandinavia than for Germany. My dad’s Germany is higher than Scandinavia, but not by much.

You mean on LivingDNA, or have you tested elsewhere? LivingDNA is really bad about picking up German ancestry currently, IME. It picks up my Scandinavian fine (I'm about an eighth Swedish and get 11%), but I'm also around an eighth German and get 1.3% -- either the Scandinavian results include German or it's going in my English results or both.

Gedmatch gives you West_German as the closest match, like your dad, and then gives you Dutch and English and French, which is reasonably consistent with being around half German and having French and Scandinavian ancestry mixed. Also, if your dad has Danish that explains the Scandinavian to some extent, and Northern German would too.

Also, if you look at your K15 and your dad's, you could estimate the following for your mom:

1 North_Sea 34
2 Atlantic 26
3 West_Med 14
4 Baltic 8
5 East_Med 8
6 West_Asian 6
7 Eastern_Euro 2

I bet you could get that from certain regions of France or France + some Scandinavian. It's higher in North Sea than the average for all France is, but Normandy could well be higher, and then has low Baltic and EE and higher Med and about the right Atlantic.

waltematec
08-30-2018, 12:52 AM
Yea for sure! That’s cool you can infer my mom’s from mine and my dad’s.

I get what you’re saying about the mt and y dna. I kinda get the idea behind those.

I have only done LivingDNA. I was thinking about doing a second one, but I don’t really want to spend the money just yet.

msmarjoribanks
08-30-2018, 01:12 AM
Makes sense. I only did my second one (FTDNA) since my first (Ancestry) didn't do mtDNA or YDNA and I wanted to test my parents there. Then I got addicted!

The good thing is the LivingDNA results will improve as they add more projects (I think it's great for UK already). It's just who knows how long that will take, sigh.

waltematec
08-30-2018, 02:09 AM
How does ancestry compare to FTDNA? My dad did both Ancestry and LivingDNA and they were pretty similar.

msmarjoribanks
08-30-2018, 02:28 AM
LivingDNA is much better for English ancestry. Ancestry has had issues in classifying it as Scandinavian or Europe West. The recent update (not fully live) seems to have made my own results much more accurate. For accuracy my experience has been that 23andMe is best, although I think Ancestry with the update is good for Northern Europe (it seems to have issues for people with Italian ancestry).

Hammer
08-30-2018, 03:58 PM
My hopes for the German project were somewhat dampened recently when I saw on another forum that a Polish user participated in the project as his family comes from a part of Poland that was formerly part of Germany. The researchers involved did ask for people with heritage from those areas to participate, but in my view they clearly asked for people of German ancestry.

It would be useless for a German DNA project if the non-Germans from those areas were also included in a reference for Germans. It would skew the regional German sample eastward and make it harder for German-descended people to place their ancestry in what was once Eastern Germany (and I believe quite a lot of Americans had German migrant ancestors who came from Pomerania/Prussia/Silesia).

I know that there's people who think that the Germans in those areas and Poles were basically ethnically the same, i.e. the theory of Germanized Slavs, and bringing Polish samples into the reference for Germans from those regions would obviously serve that particular viewpoint quite well.

However, it actually ruins the purpose of the project itself. In order to more reliably display German ancestry in DNA testing, you need a reference that's as isolated as possible from neighboring countries such as Poland, Denmark or France as it's those which typically obscure the results and make it harder to pinpoint the German ancestry. Poland is the example here, but a French person adding an "Elsass" sample would have the same blurring effect. A good reference requires that you weed out submissions that come from people who meet the geographical criteria but not the ethnicity criteria. I hope LivingDNA did that, but I have my doubts.