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Awan01
08-16-2018, 05:36 PM
Hello.

Iíve just had me yDna results from 23andMe and Iím a little bemused as to how little information there is about m479.

I canít find any subclades - do these exist?

Also canít find anyone else who has the same haplogroup.

Can I put my 23andMe data through another tool to extract further info?

Thanks in advance.

MacUalraig
08-16-2018, 06:06 PM
R2 (M479)

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R2/

You can also look at the ISOGG R tree which is now a Google doc

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1n9MBaZWKBWUx2DN9aEN0CLCDmtnp64Hts-GrYGGPRRI/edit?pli=1#gid=0

aaronbee2010
08-17-2018, 01:14 AM
Hello.

Iíve just had me yDna results from 23andMe and Iím a little bemused as to how little information there is about m479.

I canít find any subclades - do these exist?

Also canít find anyone else who has the same haplogroup.

Can I put my 23andMe data through another tool to extract further info?

Thanks in advance.


R-M479 = R2. It's always nice to see more R2 people on this forum as we're not that common! There's relatively little information on R2 as its rare outside of South Asia.

There are loads of subclades underneath R-M479 however 23andme don't test for most of them. I've also tested with 23andme, and plugging my raw DNA download into MorleyDNA's Y-SNP Haplogroup Predictor showed that I didn't test positive for any subclades below R-M124 (R2a). You can plug your raw DNA download there as well, but you might not get a very detailed result as you're still limited by the relatively small number of SNPs below R-M479 that 23andme test for (their Y-SNP tree is very outdated). If you're specifically asking about tools that look at Y-DNA then MorleyDNA's Y-SNP Haplogroup Predictor is your best bet.


R2 (M479)

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R2/

You can also look at the ISOGG R tree which is now a Google doc

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1n9MBaZWKBWUx2DN9aEN0CLCDmtnp64Hts-GrYGGPRRI/edit?pli=1#gid=0

If you go to the links posted above, you'll get a better idea of the many subclades below R-M479. For example, most South Asian men who come under R2 belong to a subclade called R-L295 (R2a2b1b2b - ISOGG 2018) and almost all Jewish men who come under R2 belong to either R-FGC13201 (R2a2a1a1a1 - ISOGG 2018) or R-L288 (R2a2b2b1 - ISOGG 2018). I could be curious to know where you're from.

If you're unhappy with 23andme's accuracy and want to purchase another test to determine your paternal group, here are a couple of cheaper options for you.

LivingDNA - Offer at $89 as of this post (normally $99) + delivery. Ancestry + maternal and paternal lineages offered.
Their Y-SNP tree for R2 is up-to-date right now, so you'll get a more detailed Y-DNA subclade. In my case, 23andme gave me R2a (initially R, however they had a recent reassignment to their most recent customers) and LivingDNA gave me R2a2b1b2a1a1.
Its important to note that their Y-SNP testing does give you false positives (in my case, me and another LivingDNA customer have been declared positive for SNPs under O and R1b even though I'm under R2 and he's under N).

YSEQ - R2-M479 Panel - $88 + delivery: Only tests paternal lineage and only for customers who have already tested positive for the M479 SNP. Will pinpoint your position on their (up-to-date) Y-SNP tree. Paternal subclade would be more reliable than LivingDNA. They also test for individual SNPs as well ($18 each). In fact I've ordered one SNP under R2a2b1b2a1a1 to verify my LivingDNA result (which I'm almost sure is correct, but its only $18).

For more information on Y-SNP testing (including other options, as well as Y-STR testing), I would recommend that you have a look here: https://isogg.org/wiki/Y-SNP_testing

Awan01
08-17-2018, 04:51 AM
Thank you so much for the detailed information. Iím relatively new to all this and learning a lot about my ancestory.
My family is original from the NW Pakistan (Salt Range) and have lived there for quite a few generations. We have a family try that traces ancestry back to Arabia but Iím not sure the authenticity of this now given the haplogroup data.

My gedmatch (Harrapa) and others are typical of most people from this area as I understand it. 32% SouthAsian 40%Indo-Iranian/West Asian/ 15% Caucasus and 10% NE European the rest is noise. Other admixtures seem to have a similar outcome with some placing me more towards west Asian and Caucasusís. Obviously these arenít perfect but attempting to reconcile family tree / gedmatch and haplogroup data to get a better understanding of Migration patterns and ancestry.

You mentioned additional subclades under M479. Are these all loacated in South Asia or have these moves through different areas?

Where are you from if you donít mind me asking?

Iíll probably start with MorleyDNA to see what subclades I test for. Any other information to better help me peice together information would be great! Thanks.

bol_nat
08-17-2018, 10:39 PM
Thank you so much for the detailed information. I’m relatively new to all this and learning a lot about my ancestory.
My family is original from the NW Pakistan (Salt Range) and have lived there for quite a few generations. We have a family try that traces ancestry back to Arabia but I’m not sure the authenticity of this now given the haplogroup data.

My gedmatch (Harrapa) and others are typical of most people from this area as I understand it. 32% SouthAsian 40%Indo-Iranian/West Asian/ 15% Caucasus and 10% NE European the rest is noise. Other admixtures seem to have a similar outcome with some placing me more towards west Asian and Caucasus’s. Obviously these aren’t perfect but attempting to reconcile family tree / gedmatch and haplogroup data to get a better understanding of Migration patterns and ancestry.

You mentioned additional subclades under M479. Are these all loacated in South Asia or have these moves through different areas?

Where are you from if you don’t mind me asking?

I’ll probably start with MorleyDNA to see what subclades I test for. Any other information to better help me peice together information would be great! Thanks.

Can you post results from harappa and other calculators from gedmatch?

aaronbee2010
08-19-2018, 10:05 PM
You mentioned additional subclades under M479. Are these all loacated in South Asia or have these moves through different areas?

Where are you from if you donít mind me asking?

Iíll probably start with MorleyDNA to see what subclades I test for. Any other information to better help me peice together information would be great! Thanks.

Most R2 men are located in E/SE/S India however the origin of R2 was not near that region. To give an example, the most common subclade in Western Europe is R-M269 (R1b1a1a2 - ISOGG 2018), with its levels being highest in Wales and Ireland. However the origin of R-M269 is known to either be SE Europe or West Asia, it is merely the case that men carrying the M269 mutation moved Northwest into Europe (around the Neolithic period) and concentrations of R-M269 increased the most along the western edge of Europe due to the Atlantic preventing further expansion westwards.

Its the same logic with R2. Most R2 men in the world (and roughly 100% of R2 men in India) come under a subclade called R-P267 (R2a2 - ISOGG 2018), which has it origins in or near the Zagros Mountains (SW/W Iran). R2 would've been introduced into the Indian subcontinent through various waves of migration from Iran beginning at around 10500 years ago. By far the most successful subclade in India comes under a subclade of R-P267 known as R-L295 (R2a2b1b2b - ISOGG 2018) and, despite being located all throughout India, peaks along the Southeastern coast due to the eastern half of the Indian Ocean preventing further expansion in the SE direction.

I'm from England myself however my parents were both born near Nakodar, Punjab (IN). Looking at details of my clan (surname), my recent paternal lineage is apparently traced to Sialkot, a region of NE Pakistan located near Jammu. A separate cluster of R-P267 (L295-) is common around Northern Pakistan (including Sialkot and the Salt Range) - I myself am positive for P267 and negative for L295, you might be the same, coming from NW Pakistan.

MorleyDNA is good for seeing whether you're positive for M124 and other SNPs below however 23andmes Y-SNP tree for R2 is very outdated so I don't think you'll get much information here. Its incredibly unlikely that you're M124-, in which case you're probably SK2163+. What other information are you interested in? You could plug your 23andme raw download into James Licks mtDNA Haplogroup Predictor (https://dna.jameslick.com/mthap/) and get a more detailed result for your maternal haplogroup. You could upload your raw download to FTDNA or Wegene as well.

As you're already familiar with GEDmatch, would you be okay with providing your Oracle results for Eurogenes K13 and HarappaWorld? I am curious :P

Awan01
08-21-2018, 04:48 AM
Arron thanks for the detail. Really appreciate the effort. Please DM for more info.

Awan01
08-22-2018, 05:46 PM
Here are my Admixture and Oracle results. I'd be interested in your analysis Aaronbee and others. Aaronbee can you share yours also? Sounds like we have a fair amount in common.

It seems like I probably need to send off another sample to gather more detailed and final Y-Haplo data. There are so many tests out there, which one would you recommend as an absolute final one? I'm not really interested in anything other than getting haplogroup data.

I am having trouble using the morley dna tool with the 23 and me raw data so if you can point me to a guide that would be useful. Also once I get the data what am I supposed to be looking for?

AaronBee you mentioned SK2163+ how far back would that be and from where does it originate? I ran a google search and found one instance found in Iraq on r2dna.

Results below.... thanks for the insights.

HarappaWorld Oracle results:
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 39.3
2 S-Indian 32.83
3 Caucasian 13.38
4 NE-Euro 9.8
5 SW-Asian 1.45
6 Papuan 0.91
7 Siberian 0.9
8 American 0.79
9 Beringian 0.32
10 Mediterranean 0.31

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 2.32
2 punjabi (harappa) 3.24
3 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 3.51
4 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 4.03
5 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 4.34
6 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 4.36
7 kashmiri (harappa) 4.62
8 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 4.89
9 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 5.58
10 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 6.21
11 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 6.27
12 sindhi (harappa) 6.3
13 punjabi-arain (xing) 6.48
14 up-muslim (harappa) 6.64
15 nepalese-a (xing) 8.89
16 sindhi (hgdp) 8.91
17 pathan (hgdp) 9.45
18 up-brahmin (harappa) 9.58
19 bhatia (harappa) 9.71
20 haryana-jatt (harappa) 10.51
Mixed Mode Population Sharing


Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 South_Asian 47.23
2 West_Asian 35.58
3 North_Atlantic 6.1
4 Baltic 5.8
5 East_Med 1.87
6 Amerindian 1.71
7 Northeast_African 0.63
8 Red_Sea 0.42
9 Oceanian 0.38
10 Siberian 0.29
11 Sub-Saharan 0.01
Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sindhi 5.26
2 Punjabi_Jat 5.86
3 Pathan 9.3
4 Gujarati 12.22
5 Brahmin_UP 12.78
6 Burusho 13.09
7 Kalash 13.93
8 Kshatriya 14.22
9 Bangladeshi 20.23
10 Afghan_Pashtun 21.14
11 Dharkar 22.04
12 Balochi 22.58
13 Brahui 23.01
14 Kanjar 23.05
15 Makrani 23.5
16 Velamas 24.73
17 Kurumba 25.81
18 Uttar_Pradesh 26.26
19 Kol 27.55
20 Dusadh 27.86

DMXX
08-25-2018, 01:16 PM
Welcome to the R2 clan!

Unless you suspect ancestry from SC Asia/NW S Asia (i.e. the Burusho, whom we can deduce have the most true R2*-M479), there won't be much utility in using auDNA to confirm the nature of your paternal line.

23andMe used to have a Y-DNA/mtDNA Haplogroup marker tool, which allowed you to confirm which downstream SNP's they tested for. The first order of business is to determine whether you've been tested for the M124 marker, which defines the R2a subclade. The absolute majority of people who belong to R2-M479 are R2a-M124+.

aaronbee's comments regarding L295 are spot on, although there won't be much utility in testing for that important mutation without first confirming your M124 status.

If you end up being M124-, then the standard nomenclature for your line would be R2*-M479(xR2a/M124).

R2*-M479 is most prevalent in SC Asia/NW S Asia (Burusho, though sporadically found in other neighbouring groups, such as Afghan Pashtuns). R2* is also thinly distributed across West and Central Eurasia (Myres et al.).

Awan01
08-25-2018, 03:07 PM
Thank you. I have managed to get my sample through morleyDNA and have received the following most likely result:

R2
R-PF7510 (R-F761, R-F1018)


M124 and P249 has also come up in RED so assume that is negative? (R2a L266/PF6108, M124, P249, PF6109/P267)

R2a L266/PF6108, M124, P249, PF6109/P267
R2a1 L295, CTS10033
R2a2 L263
R2a3 L1069
R2a~1ß F1092, F1159, F1758, F3604
R2a~2ß L288

I am lost at what I should be looking at with the Morley output or what the results even mean. I'm interested to know what this tells me about the paternal origin in recent history. 2k years or so.

Can anyone shed light on the above?

Awan01
08-25-2018, 03:09 PM
Thank you. I have managed to get my sample through morleyDNA and have received the following most likely result:

R2
R-PF7510 (R-F761, R-F1018)


M124 and P249 has also come up in RED so assume that is negative? (R2a L266/PF6108, M124, P249, PF6109/P267)

R2a L266/PF6108, M124, P249, PF6109/P267
R2a1 L295, CTS10033
R2a2 L263
R2a3 L1069
R2a~1ß F1092, F1159, F1758, F3604
R2a~2ß L288

I am lost at what I should be looking at with the Morley output or what the results even mean. I'm interested to know what this tells me about the paternal origin in recent history. 2k years or so.

Can anyone shed light on the above?

DMXX
08-25-2018, 03:40 PM
Fairly interesting situation.

PF7510 is typically equivalent to M124. F761 is a marker typically observed in Y-DNA O (no parallel mutations seen in R2 according to YFull). F1018 is downstream of R2-M479.

In short, if the Morley run is correct, you belong to a "pre-R2a-M124" branch of R2-M479 (though you have at least one mutation, PF7510, that is typically parallel to M124).

bol_nat
08-25-2018, 04:00 PM
Here are my Admixture and Oracle results. I'd be interested in your analysis Aaronbee and others. Aaronbee can you share yours also? Sounds like we have a fair amount in common.

It seems like I probably need to send off another sample to gather more detailed and final Y-Haplo data. There are so many tests out there, which one would you recommend as an absolute final one? I'm not really interested in anything other than getting haplogroup data.

I am having trouble using the morley dna tool with the 23 and me raw data so if you can point me to a guide that would be useful. Also once I get the data what am I supposed to be looking for?

AaronBee you mentioned SK2163+ how far back would that be and from where does it originate? I ran a google search and found one instance found in Iraq on r2dna.

Results below.... thanks for the insights.

HarappaWorld Oracle results:
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 39.3
2 S-Indian 32.83
3 Caucasian 13.38
4 NE-Euro 9.8
5 SW-Asian 1.45
6 Papuan 0.91
7 Siberian 0.9
8 American 0.79
9 Beringian 0.32
10 Mediterranean 0.31

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 2.32
2 punjabi (harappa) 3.24
3 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 3.51
4 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 4.03
5 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 4.34
6 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 4.36
7 kashmiri (harappa) 4.62
8 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 4.89
9 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 5.58
10 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 6.21
11 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 6.27
12 sindhi (harappa) 6.3
13 punjabi-arain (xing) 6.48
14 up-muslim (harappa) 6.64
15 nepalese-a (xing) 8.89
16 sindhi (hgdp) 8.91
17 pathan (hgdp) 9.45
18 up-brahmin (harappa) 9.58
19 bhatia (harappa) 9.71
20 haryana-jatt (harappa) 10.51
Mixed Mode Population Sharing


Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 South_Asian 47.23
2 West_Asian 35.58
3 North_Atlantic 6.1
4 Baltic 5.8
5 East_Med 1.87
6 Amerindian 1.71
7 Northeast_African 0.63
8 Red_Sea 0.42
9 Oceanian 0.38
10 Siberian 0.29
11 Sub-Saharan 0.01
Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sindhi 5.26
2 Punjabi_Jat 5.86
3 Pathan 9.3
4 Gujarati 12.22
5 Brahmin_UP 12.78
6 Burusho 13.09
7 Kalash 13.93
8 Kshatriya 14.22
9 Bangladeshi 20.23
10 Afghan_Pashtun 21.14
11 Dharkar 22.04
12 Balochi 22.58
13 Brahui 23.01
14 Kanjar 23.05
15 Makrani 23.5
16 Velamas 24.73
17 Kurumba 25.81
18 Uttar_Pradesh 26.26
19 Kol 27.55
20 Dusadh 27.86

Are you from Attock?

my results, from tehsil Kharian district Gujrat.


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 40.75
2 S-Indian 31.24
3 Caucasian 12.19
4 NE-Euro 7.83
5 Beringian 2.45
6 Mediterranean 1.89
7 Papuan 1.47
8 SW-Asian 1.37
9 SE-Asian 0.33
10 Siberian 0.26
11 NE-Asian 0.18
12 American 0.04

Awan01
08-25-2018, 05:36 PM
Yes Iíve traced family back to Attock NW Pakistan although I live in the UK.

bol_nat
08-25-2018, 06:09 PM
Yes I’ve traced family back to Attock NW Pakistan although I live in the UK.

There is another awan user from Mandi Bahauddin, sarmadmalik.

his results

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 43.75
2 S-Indian 30.57
3 Caucasian 12.1
4 NE-Euro 9.36
5 SW-Asian 1.9
6 Beringian 0.83
7 Siberian 0.51
8 American 0.48
9 Papuan 0.27
10 Mediterranean 0.15
11 NE-Asian 0.09

He's half gondal though, so his bit higher baloch then you could be because of that.

Awan01
08-25-2018, 07:01 PM
Fairly interesting situation.

PF7510 is typically equivalent to M124. F761 is a marker typically observed in Y-DNA O (no parallel mutations seen in R2 according to YFull). F1018 is downstream of R2-M479.

In short, if the Morley run is correct, you belong to a "pre-R2a-M124" branch of R2-M479 (though you have at least one mutation, PF7510, that is typically parallel to M124).

That's very interesting. My paternal grandmother is apparently Mughal as is some of my extended family so perhaps the O Haplogroup connection is from this line?

Also Arronbee mentioned it's very unlikely I would be M124 Negative but it seems I am. Although it's not clear from morley whether I am positive or negative for L295 L263. What does this mean in terms of origins? Where would being M124 negative place me?

aaronbee2010
08-26-2018, 01:49 AM
Here are my Admixture and Oracle results. I'd be interested in your analysis Aaronbee and others. Aaronbee can you share yours also? Sounds like we have a fair amount in common.

It seems like I probably need to send off another sample to gather more detailed and final Y-Haplo data. There are so many tests out there, which one would you recommend as an absolute final one? I'm not really interested in anything other than getting haplogroup data.

I am having trouble using the morley dna tool with the 23 and me raw data so if you can point me to a guide that would be useful. Also once I get the data what am I supposed to be looking for?

AaronBee you mentioned SK2163+ how far back would that be and from where does it originate? I ran a google search and found one instance found in Iraq on r2dna.



Apologies for the late reply, I was on holiday in London since Wednesday but I'm back home now.

Eurogenes K13 - 23andme:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 South_Asian 38.84
2 West_Asian 35.57
3 North_Atlantic 11.06
4 Baltic 8.98
5 East_Med 2.48
6 Amerindian 1.33
7 Oceanian 1
8 Siberian 0.74

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Punjabi_Jat 5.37
2 Pathan 7.54
3 Kalash 9.41
4 Sindhi 10.62
5 Burusho 11.14
6 Afghan_Pashtun 13.96
7 Brahmin_UP 18.23
8 Gujarati 19.62
9 Balochi 19.84
10 Brahui 20.84
11 Makrani 20.85
12 Kshatriya 21.13
13 Tadjik 21.56
14 Afghan_Tadjik 23.44
15 Bangladeshi 25.82
16 Dharkar 29.2
17 Kanjar 30.18
18 Turkmen 31.5
19 Velamas 32.64
20 Tabassaran 32.7

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 84.9% Sindhi + 15.1% Swedish @ 2.56
2 85% Sindhi + 15% North_Swedish @ 2.6
3 85% Sindhi + 15% Norwegian @ 2.66
4 84.7% Sindhi + 15.3% Danish @ 2.93
5 84.4% Sindhi + 15.6% North_German @ 2.95
6 84.9% Sindhi + 15.1% North_Dutch @ 2.96
7 85% Sindhi + 15% Irish @ 3.12
8 85.2% Sindhi + 14.8% West_Scottish @ 3.18
9 85.1% Sindhi + 14.9% Orcadian @ 3.19
10 85.5% Sindhi + 14.5% Southwest_Finnish @ 3.23
11 88.6% Punjabi_Jat + 11.4% Tabassaran @ 3.38
12 76.8% Punjabi_Jat + 23.2% Afghan_Pashtun @ 3.5
13 85.2% Sindhi + 14.8% Southeast_English @ 3.52
14 84% Punjabi_Jat + 16% Tadjik @ 3.52
15 86% Sindhi + 14% La_Brana-1 @ 3.53
16 89.5% Punjabi_Jat + 10.5% Lezgin @ 3.54
17 85.4% Sindhi + 14.6% Southwest_English @ 3.57
18 89.7% Punjabi_Jat + 10.3% Chechen @ 3.61
19 90.3% Punjabi_Jat + 9.7% Ossetian @ 3.65
20 85.8% Sindhi + 14.2% Finnish @ 3.69

HarappaWorld - 23andme:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 40.81
2 S-Indian 24.69
3 NE-Euro 14.13
4 Caucasian 11.32
5 Mediterranean 3.26
6 Siberian 2.31
7 SW-Asian 1.67
8 American 0.8
9 Papuan 0.68
10 Beringian 0.33

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 4.03
2 pathan (hgdp) 5.49
3 haryana-jatt (harappa) 5.69
4 bhatia (harappa) 6.3
5 sindhi (harappa) 6.57
6 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 6.91
7 kalash (hgdp) 8.79
8 burusho (hgdp) 8.79
9 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 8.85
10 kashmiri (harappa) 8.91
11 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 9.1
12 punjabi-arain (xing) 9.25
13 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 9.49
14 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 9.67
15 punjabi (harappa) 9.69
16 sindhi (hgdp) 10.14
17 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 10.53
18 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 10.65
19 nepalese-a (xing) 11.34
20 pashtun (harappa) 11.91

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 79.4% haryana-jatt (harappa) + 20.6% balochi (hgdp) @ 2.37
2 85.2% sindhi (hgdp) + 14.8% mordovian (yunusbayev) @ 2.45
3 86.1% sindhi (hgdp) + 13.9% russian (behar) @ 2.47
4 51.1% pathan (hgdp) + 48.9% haryana-jatt (harappa) @ 2.51
5 82% haryana-jatt (harappa) + 18% makrani (hgdp) @ 2.6
6 82.2% haryana-jatt (harappa) + 17.8% brahui (hgdp) @ 2.6
7 53.2% haryana-jatt (harappa) + 46.8% bhatia (harappa) @ 2.67
8 85.3% sindhi (hgdp) + 14.7% ukranian (yunusbayev) @ 2.69
9 87.8% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 12.2% tajik (yunusbayev) @ 2.72
10 86.2% sindhi (hgdp) + 13.8% belorussian (behar) @ 2.79
11 86.6% punjabi-arain (xing) + 13.4% mordovian (yunusbayev) @ 2.89
12 93.5% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 6.5% urkarah (xing) @ 2.97
13 93.5% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 6.5% stalskoe (xing) @ 3.04
14 94% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) + 6% lezgin (behar) @ 3.07
15 84.1% sindhi (hgdp) + 15.9% chuvash (behar) @ 3.07
16 87.2% punjabi-arain (xing) + 12.8% russian (hgdp) @ 3.1
17 86.7% punjabi-arain (xing) + 13.3% ukranian (yunusbayev) @ 3.1
18 63.3% haryana-jatt (harappa) + 36.7% kalash (hgdp) @ 3.11
19 87.5% punjabi-arain (xing) + 12.5% russian (behar) @ 3.13
20 85.5% punjabi-arain (xing) + 14.5% chuvash (behar) @ 3.17

You don't seem to score too differently from me, you're also not that far off from other people in my caste (Punjabi Jatt). I score high levels of Euro on these calculators, but most people in my caste don't quite score this high. I'm not very good at interpreting oracles though. I've seen that more knowledgeable people have interpreted your Oracle results for you.


Thank you. I have managed to get my sample through morleyDNA and have received the following most likely result:

R2
R-PF7510 (R-F761, R-F1018)


M124 and P249 has also come up in RED so assume that is negative? (R2a L266/PF6108, M124, P249, PF6109/P267)

R2a L266/PF6108, M124, P249, PF6109/P267
R2a1 L295, CTS10033
R2a2 L263
R2a3 L1069
R2a~1ß F1092, F1159, F1758, F3604
R2a~2ß L288

I am lost at what I should be looking at with the Morley output or what the results even mean. I'm interested to know what this tells me about the paternal origin in recent history. 2k years or so.

Can anyone shed light on the above?

Yes, you would be negative for M124 according to these results! This means that you are most likely SK2163+ (R2b - ISOGG 2018) and, considering your paternal lineage is from North Pakistan, you're also probably FGC50324+ (R2b1 - ISOGG 2018) and maybe FGC50245+ (R2b1a - ISOGG 2018). Y-SNPs are better for interpreting your ancient line. According to YFull, the most recent common ancestor from which all R2b1a men descended from lived around 3400 years ago. Y-STRs are better for recent matches. As DMXX said, R-M479(xM124) is mainly seen in Burusho men, as well as surrounding groups such as Afghani Pashtuns, so your lineage has probably been around North Pakistan for thousands of years, definitely more than 2000 years ago.


That's very interesting. My paternal grandmother is apparently Mughal as is some of my extended family so perhaps the O Haplogroup connection is from this line?

Also Arronbee mentioned it's very unlikely I would be M124 Negative but it seems I am. Although it's not clear from morley whether I am positive or negative for L295 L263. What does this mean in terms of origins? Where would being M124 negative place me?

Your paternal grandmother has no effect on your Y-DNA. F761 does not come under any R2 subclade according to both ISOGG 2018 and YFull trees. Besides, MorleyDNA hasn't given you a green result for it so I doubt you're even F761+ in the first place. MorleyDNA has an outdated tree for R2 as well, but it shows the main SNPs like M479, M124 etc.

As for you being M124-, I said it was unlikely, I never said it was impossible! If you're negative for M124, then you must also be negative for anything under M124 (i.e. L263, P267, L295, L294 etc.). As I've said, you're most likely SK2163+, which would make you the first R2b member I've seen on this forum (then again, I haven't been here very long)!

When it comes to tests that focus on your Y-DNA, it would be best for you to purchase individual SNPs from YSEQ.net as there are not many SNPs that have been discovered under R2b at the moment. Each SNP is £14.04 and shipping is £3.90 for orders that are not over £78.02. This £3.90 charge ONLY applies to the first order, subsequent orders don't have a shipping charge as they just look at the DNA you sent before, however you need to type IDONTNEEDAKIT in the coupon box for the orders after the first one to avoid another shipping charge. If your DNA has degraded with them, then they'll send you another swab kit for free.

You should start off with SK2163 (https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=8451) and if SK2163+, then order FGC50324 (R2b1 - https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=56558) and if FGC50324+, order FGC50291 (R2b1a - https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=56557 - This SNP isn't on ISOGG but is on YFull). Buying all three seperate with shipping for just the first order would amount to £46.02. This seems like the cheapest option for you at the moment that will give you the most precise result possible right now. Bear in mind that as the tree for R2b gets more complex, you may find that your results are outdated though.

I've ordered Y1384 (R2a2b1b2a1a1 - ISOGG 2018) from YSEQ to verify my result on LivingDNA, and they recieved the sample a few days ago. Their results take up to 5 weeks to show after receiving your sample according to their website.

Awan01
08-26-2018, 06:01 PM
Thank you for the information - really helpful. It seems there is very little information on the R2b branch which is a little frustrating. If you know of any good literature that can shed more light on this branch then please do share.


Yes, you would be negative for M124 according to these results! This means that you are most likely SK2163+ (R2b - ISOGG 2018) and, considering your paternal lineage is from North Pakistan, you're also probably FGC50324+ (R2b1 - ISOGG 2018) and maybe FGC50245+ (R2b1a - ISOGG 2018). Y-SNPs are better for interpreting your ancient line. According to YFull, the most recent common ancestor from which all R2b1a men descended from lived around 3400 years ago. Y-STRs are better for recent matches. As DMXX said, R-M479(xM124) is mainly seen in Burusho men, as well as surrounding groups such as Afghani Pashtuns, so your lineage has probably been around North Pakistan for thousands of years, definitely more than 2000 years ago.

Based on the above information when do you think the R2b branch split? yfull mentions this branch being present for the last 3k to 5k years, I assume that would have been in the same areas (Afghanistan/NW Pakistan)? I am assuming in your opinion would R2b have also been part of the wave of migration from the Zagros Mountains in Iran 10.5k years ago? If not what other theories exist?

I have also noticed many samples whether from r2dna.org, yfull etc for R2... exist in significant amounts in west and south west asia? What is the theory here in your opinion? Could the origins of R2 come from further west than we think or is this case of some R2's headings west in stead of east? Any other ideas?

Sorry for all the questions, the lack of information is made me even more curious! you've all been super helpful so thank you.
I do feel somewhat unique and am very surprised how much information there is on R2a over R2b.

parasar
08-26-2018, 06:18 PM
That's very interesting. My paternal grandmother is apparently Mughal as is some of my extended family so perhaps the O Haplogroup connection is from this line?
...

No. That O type SNP on a R line is just a independent mutation on a parallel line.

Interesting if you are M124- and PF7510+ as that would put you on a line not yet seen.
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y3399/


Edit, see also:
https://genetiker.wordpress.com/y-snp-calls-for-i1945/
I1945 Iran Neolithic R2a-Y3399

R-Y482-M479-F3302
R-Y482-M479-PF7490
R-Y482-M479-Y3399-PF7493
R-Y482-M479-Y3399-FGC12611/Y3420
R-Y482-M479-Y3399-FGC12618/Y4690

This one is also likely M479 though listed as pre
I1949 Iran Neolithic pre-R2-M479
https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2016/06/22/y-snp-calls-from-the-ancient-near-east/

aaronbee2010
08-27-2018, 06:08 PM
Thank you for the information - really helpful. It seems there is very little information on the R2b branch which is a little frustrating. If you know of any good literature that can shed more light on this branch then please do share.

Based on the above information when do you think the R2b branch split? yfull mentions this branch being present for the last 3k to 5k years, I assume that would have been in the same areas (Afghanistan/NW Pakistan)? I am assuming in your opinion would R2b have also been part of the wave of migration from the Zagros Mountains in Iran 10.5k years ago? If not what other theories exist?

R2b unfortunately has a lack of research dedicated to it due to a relatively recent discovery. What could help you is looking at literature relating to populations of men who are M479+ and M124-.

To give a simple explanation, the first male born with the R2b (we'll call this man A) mutation lived around 16300 years ago. However the lineages of many of the descendants of A died out over time. All living R2b men can trace their lineage to a common ancestor called B, the MRCA (most recent common ancestor) of all R2b males living today. This rough image I made in MS paint explains what I mean by this:

https://i.gyazo.com/6e16851bc7a137d8f029422fa6de0424.png

As for my personal theory on migration from the Zagros Mountains to South Asia, that theory mainly applied to R2a2. R2b is a relatively rare subclade of R2, and is mainly observed around North Pakistan (i.e. in Burusho males) and may have been in Afghanistan/NW Pakistan for the last 3000-5000 years, and would've probably come down from Central Asia within the last 16000 years (again, my personal theory). I think that R2b's origin would've been close to that of R2's. If we were to look at R2b1a, that subclade would've formed around 5000 years ago, with the MRCA living around 3400 years ago. Both the first male with the mutation and the MRCA would've lived near (maybe slightly above) where we see most R2b men today.


I have also noticed many samples whether from r2dna.org, yfull etc for R2... exist in significant amounts in west and south west asia? What is the theory here in your opinion? Could the origins of R2 come from further west than we think or is this case of some R2's headings west in stead of east? Any other ideas?

Sorry for all the questions, the lack of information is made me even more curious! you've all been super helpful so thank you.
I do feel somewhat unique and am very surprised how much information there is on R2a over R2b.

The vast majority of R2 men on r2dna.org and YFull belong to R2a2-P267. Only 9 men on r2dna.org and 6 men on YFull do not come under R2a2. R2a only has two subclades directly below it, R2a1-L263 and R2a2-P267. 3 of the 9 men on r2dna.org who are P267- are L263+. R-L263 seems to be exclusive to the Near East (not South or Central Asia). R-M479 most likely originated in Central Asia, however considering that almost all M124+ men are either P267+ or L263+, R-M124 could have originated anywhere between Central Asia and West Asia.

As for the lack of information on R2b compared to R2a, we were in the same boat until recently. Here is the ISOGG trees for R2a from 2015 and 2016, to give you an idea of how recent progress for R2a was.

2015:

https://i.gyazo.com/c44b751c15cd67fa71f4393b693118eb.png

2016:

https://i.gyazo.com/20333652175ff90d70a6bb31c7a06546.png

As the number of SNPs discovered under R2b increases, the tree for R2b will get more complex. Even today, the number of SNPs found under R2 is nothing compared to the number found under R1.

The red SNPs were brand new SNPs that were discovered during 2016.

Awan01
08-28-2018, 11:32 AM
Thank you for this. Seems like it's a bit of a waiting game as more R2b's emerge and the tree develops. Really appreciate the effort here. Look forward to others posting when more information emerges.

aaronbee2010
10-03-2018, 03:13 PM
Thank you for this. Seems like it's a bit of a waiting game as more R2b's emerge and the tree develops. Really appreciate the effort here. Look forward to others posting when more information emerges.

On the 30th of September 2018, there was an update to the YFull tree that added a new subclade to R2b (R-Y136220):

https://i.postimg.cc/YtWpJrj7/Y136220.png

Its nice to see R2b getting some love :D

laltota
11-06-2018, 03:23 PM
On the 30th of September 2018, there was an update to the YFull tree that added a new subclade to R2b (R-Y136220):



Its nice to see R2b getting some love :D

The R2b (id YF15361) in the YFull tree is me.
TMRCA with man from Iraq is now 3900 years.

Tomasso29
11-08-2018, 07:57 PM
The R2b (id YF15361) in the YFull tree is me.
TMRCA with man from Iraq is now 3900 years.

I'm guessing that most if not all of the folks who were previously M479+ but M124- are likely under the R2b branch. It's definitely the much smaller branch, but its distribution is not too different from R2a, which makes me think that R2 in general is a much younger lineage than R1.

parasar
11-08-2018, 08:45 PM
I'm guessing that most if not all of the folks who were previously M479+ but M124- are likely under the R2b branch. It's definitely the much smaller branch, but its distribution is not too different from R2a, which makes me think that R2 in general is a much younger lineage than R1.

"As to whether R2b, we can compare the STRs with confirmed R2b."
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?15699-Punjabi-DNA-Results-23AndMe-GEDMatch&p=514512&viewfull=1#post514512

Awan01
11-18-2018, 10:40 PM
Good to meet you! @laltota We'd be distantly related then B)
Can you elaborate on your comment: 'TMRCA with man from Iraq is now 3900 years'?

laltota
11-25-2018, 04:22 PM
Good to meet you! @laltota We'd be distantly related then B)
Can you elaborate on your comment: 'TMRCA with man from Iraq is now 3900 years'?


See post #22. On right side it shows AFTER tree extract for R2 from YFull, and says TMRCA 3400 ybp. This was immediately after I uploaded my raw data to YFull when they inserted R-Y136220 as a new branch under R-FGC50278.

When they completed the analysis after a few weeks, they changed it to TMRCA (time to most recent common ancestor) 3900 ybp between myself and the person from Iraq.

https://images2.imgbox.com/da/54/st4o6AJ1_o.png

Awan01
01-08-2019, 11:52 PM
So I have had my YSEQ test back for SK2163 and they have posted the following result:

SK2163 G-

Assume this means I am negative for SK2163? If so I was not expecting that at all!

Comments?

aaronbee2010
01-09-2019, 02:43 AM
So I have had my YSEQ test back for SK2163 and they have posted the following result:

SK2163 G-

Assume this means I am negative for SK2163? If so I was not expecting that at all!

Comments?

I was really not expecting this to be honest! That test result indeed says you're negative for the SK2163 mutation that is thought to come under R2b. R2b's tree is woefully small at the moment, so I suspect that given this (with hardly any confirmed SNPs at the moment), we get interesting cases like yours. R2a was in a very similar situation until 2016. At the very least, 23andMe have confirmed you M479+ and I believe that they're correct.

To give some specific SNP's as examples, P267 was thought to be equivalent to M124 when it turned out P267 was directly below M124. This could be the case with SK2163 being below other SNPs under R2b instead of being equivalent.

It will most likely be the case that as the R2b tree grows, more SNPs will be discovered between M479 and SK2163. L295 was thought to be directly below M124 before, but now we know its actually 6 subclades below now. In the future, they most likely will discover SNPs that are below M479 and above SK2163, which I believe you will be located.

The only way to grow the R2b tree would be for more M479+, M124- people to get a full sequence on their Y-DNA and upload their .BAM files to YFull and add themselves to their tree to grow it. The FTDNA R2 project's administrator can also contact ISOGG to see if he can get the newly discovered SNPs from each sample onto their tree afterwards. R2a made incredible progress from 2015 to 2016, and I believe R2b will follow soon! :)

A fundraiser may be required for you. I would see what other users on this forum have to say, as well as contacting the FTDNA R2 project's admin (Abdulaziz Ali) first though. I've messaged him before and he's been very helpful. I'm sure he will be interested to hear your case. His email is on the project here: https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r2-m124-wty/activity-feed

Really nice to see surprises like this. Nice results!

EDIT: Your current Y-DNA assignment for now is R2* (M479+, M124-, SK2163-).

EDIT (again): It would be interesting if, in the future you come somewhere under R2c :P

Awan01
01-09-2019, 08:32 PM
Thank you Aaronbee for the prompt and detailed response. It’s thrown me off completely and as you said it opens things up to a multitude of possibilities. I’m not sure how I’d feel about a full test, something to think about of course. Exciting to consider no one like me has been seen before at least on this forum. Have you ever seen anyone else sk2163-?

Speculating for a moment would these results put my lineage in an older or younger branch?

If anyone else has had similar results or has any interesting theories to share then I’d be pleased to hear them!

Down the rabbit hole we go.

laltota
01-09-2019, 09:12 PM
No. That O type SNP on a R line is just a independent mutation on a parallel line.

Interesting if you are M124- and PF7510+ as that would put you on a line not yet seen.
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y3399/


Edit, see also:
https://genetiker.wordpress.com/y-snp-calls-for-i1945/
I1945 Iran Neolithic R2a-Y3399

R-Y482-M479-F3302
R-Y482-M479-PF7490
R-Y482-M479-Y3399-PF7493
R-Y482-M479-Y3399-FGC12611/Y3420
R-Y482-M479-Y3399-FGC12618/Y4690

This one is also likely M479 though listed as pre
I1949 Iran Neolithic pre-R2-M479
https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2016/06/22/y-snp-calls-from-the-ancient-near-east/

Please see posts #28 and #29 by Awan01 and aaronbee2010.
Does it mean that Awan01 YDNA HG is probably a new branch "R2c" ?

aaronbee2010
01-09-2019, 11:15 PM
Thank you Aaronbee for the prompt and detailed response. Itís thrown me off completely and as you said it opens things up to a multitude of possibilities. Iím not sure how Iíd feel about a full test, something to think about of course. Exciting to consider no one like me has been seen before at least on this forum. Have you ever seen anyone else sk2163-?

Speculating for a moment would these results put my lineage in an older or younger branch?

If anyone else has had similar results or has any interesting theories to share then Iíd be pleased to hear them!

Down the rabbit hole we go.

I would just take this as a waiting game, as you've previously said a while back. I would see what fundraising/general advice you can get from others first before deciding to pay for a full sequence yourself. You would be doing gods work for R2 though :P more M479+, M124- people are massively needed to grow the R2 tree. Alternatively, you could wait for the tree to grow and see if SK2163 gets demoted, then test for the new R2b SNP. R2c could be a thing in the future too, who knows?

You're the only user on this forum who's been confirmed R2* (M479+, M124-, SK2163-) as of the writing of this post. laltota is R2b, and we have another user called Wonderer who is M479+ (other downstream SNPs unknown, but possibly M124- at least).

Your current assignment:

https://i.gyazo.com/9888a89200afaa6b61e92c1be393ea64.png

I think you would be in an older branch personally. What I think will happen is that SNPs between M479 and SK2163 will be discovered, and you'll slot somewhere, in a branch above SK2163.

aaronbee2010
01-09-2019, 11:16 PM
Please see posts #28 and #29 by Awan01 and aaronbee2010.
Does it mean that Awan01 YDNA HG is probably a new branch "R2c" ?

I would wait and see. Its most likely the case that he comes under a R2b (pre-SK2163) line thats yet to be found. R2c is less likely, but still a possibility nonetheless.

Tomasso29
01-11-2019, 05:00 PM
I would wait and see. Its most likely the case that he comes under a R2b (pre-SK2163) line thats yet to be found. R2c is less likely, but still a possibility nonetheless.

Agreed, I would wait and see how that branch develops with more newer samples, there are probably a few hidden hidden SNPs above.

The R2a branch was in a similar position about 10 years ago, we all just went by R2-M124 and the only significant SNP we were using to branch for a while was L295. Look how far it has gotten down with all the new SNP discoveries. R2b is a much smaller branch, but hopefully it follows a similar pattern.

parasar
01-11-2019, 06:04 PM
Please see posts #28 and #29 by Awan01 and aaronbee2010.
Does it mean that Awan01 YDNA HG is probably a new branch "R2c" ?

A new branch definitely for now - but not clear where.
If he has none of the FGC50368 level SNPs positive then a new branch under R2 - R2c.

Awan01
01-11-2019, 09:56 PM
I’ve contacted YSEQ to get their opinion on what I should test for next (short of a full panel) test.
This is certainly all very curious. Please do continue to share your opinions.

Tomasso29
01-11-2019, 10:16 PM
I’ve contacted YSEQ to get their opinion on what I should test for next (short of a full panel) test.
This is certainly all very curious. Please do continue to share your opinions.

If you have any shared SNPs with other R2b people that the R2a people are negative for, then you're an R2b, they just need to find the common upstream SNP to identify.

parasar
01-14-2019, 06:48 PM
If you have any shared SNPs with other R2b people that the R2a people are negative for, then you're an R2b, they just need to find the common upstream SNP to identify.

He is confirmed M479+, M124-, SK2163-
And there are 112 YFull verified SNPs at the R2b level. It may be difficult to find a split point without a full scan.
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-FGC50368/

Tomasso29
01-14-2019, 09:15 PM
He is confirmed M479+, M124-, SK2163-
And there are 112 YFull verified SNPs at the R2b level. It may be difficult to find a split point without a full scan.
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-FGC50368/

Looking back at the OP's original topic, poor guy got lost in the shuffle and did not realize that he was an R2a all along. He should have just read what DMXX wrote on post #12.

He tested through 23andMe which are notoriously known to have no calls on some of their SNPs, then he ran his data through morleyDNA which gave him an "R-PF7510 (R-F761, R-F1018)" designation, which is R2a. Then for some odd reason he's testing for SK2163, which obviously was going to come back negative given that he's an R2a and this is an R2b SNP. But I understand that this can be all confusing for people who are new to this, I just wish people assured him that he was an R2a before testing for a useless SNP.

Now that this is out of the way, Awan, you're an R2a and this is your tree: https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y3399/

If you want to find out further, Family Tree DNA may be your next step.

parasar
01-14-2019, 10:40 PM
Looking back at the OP's original topic, poor guy got lost in the shuffle and did not realize that he was an R2a all along. He should have just read what DMXX wrote on post #12.

He tested through 23andMe which are notoriously known to have no calls on some of their SNPs, then he ran his data through morleyDNA which gave him an "R-PF7510 (R-F761, R-F1018)" designation, which is R2a. Then for some odd reason he's testing for SK2163, which obviously was going to come back negative given that he's an R2a and this is an R2b SNP. But I understand that this can be all confusing for people who are new to this, I just wish people assured him that he was an R2a before testing for a useless SNP.

Now that this is out of the way, Awan, you're an R2a and this is your tree: https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y3399/

If you want to find out further, Family Tree DNA may be your next step.

But isn't he M124- too?

aaronbee2010
01-14-2019, 10:41 PM
Looking back at the OP's original topic, poor guy got lost in the shuffle and did not realize that he was an R2a all along. He should have just read what DMXX wrote on post #12.

He tested through 23andMe which are notoriously known to have no calls on some of their SNPs, then he ran his data through morleyDNA which gave him an "R-PF7510 (R-F761, R-F1018)" designation, which is R2a. Then for some odd reason he's testing for SK2163, which obviously was going to come back negative given that he's an R2a and this is an R2b SNP. But I understand that this can be all confusing for people who are new to this, I just wish people assured him that he was an R2a before testing for a useless SNP.

Now that this is out of the way, Awan, you're an R2a and this is your tree: https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y3399/

If you want to find out further, Family Tree DNA may be your next step.

It gave him the "R-PF7510 (R-F761, R-F1018)" designation, but in the results page, he didn't actually show whether or not he actually got positive results for PF7510. Mind you he didn't provide a full screenshot.

I believe 23andMe uses Build37 for their chromosome positions. I found out that according to Build37, PF7510 is located at position number 23046198 on the Y chromosome. I scanned my own raw data and I saw that I was never tested for this SNP (it wasn't a no-call [not determined]). The number was completely absent. I have a feeling this also applies to Awan01, as we both tested with the v5 chip.

@Awan01 could you open your 23andMe .txt file with Notepad, go to "Find" and type the following chromosome position numbers into the box: 21764501, 23046198. For each number, could you look at the letter (A, T, C or G) on the very right and tell me what letter you see (if the numbers are present on your file). I have a feeling you will be able to find 21764501 but not 23046198, but I would like to make sure!

Incase you're wondering: 21764501 = G (M124-), 21764501 = A (M124+), 23046198 = C (PF7510-), 23046198 = T (PF7510+).

@Tomasso29 So are you saying that he's Y3399+, M124-, or that he's M124+ and 23andMe gave false results?

This is really interesting. Maybe ISOGG might rename R2a to Y3399 and make R2a1 = M124 and R2a* = Y3399+, M124-? Or am I completely wrong? lol

Tomasso29
01-14-2019, 11:39 PM
It gave him the "R-PF7510 (R-F761, R-F1018)" designation, but in the results page, he didn't actually show whether or not he actually got positive results for PF7510. Mind you he didn't provide a full screenshot.

I believe 23andMe uses Build37 for their chromosome positions. I found out that according to Build37, PF7510 is located at position number 23046198 on the Y chromosome. I scanned my own raw data and I saw that I was never tested for this SNP (it wasn't a no-call [not determined]). The number was completely absent. I have a feeling this also applies to Awan01, as we both tested with the v5 chip.

@Awan01 could you open your 23andMe .txt file with Notepad, go to "Find" and type the following chromosome position numbers into the box: 21764501, 23046198. For each number, could you look at the letter (A, T, C or G) on the very right and tell me what letter you see (if the numbers are present on your file). I have a feeling you will be able to find 21764501 but not 23046198, but I would like to make sure!

Incase you're wondering: 21764501 = G (M124-), 21764501 = A (M124+), 23046198 = C (PF7510-), 23046198 = T (PF7510+).

@Tomasso29 So are you saying that he's Y3399+, M124-, or that he's M124+ and 23andMe gave false results?

This is really interesting. Maybe ISOGG might rename R2a to Y3399 and make R2a1 = M124 and R2a* = Y3399+, M124-? Or am I completely wrong? lol

What I'm saying is, if you're using 23andMe to determine whether you're M124+/-, then it's not a reliable test. Specially when he has another SNP parallel to M124 that he's positive for (According to his MorleyDNA results). So naturally if he only tested that one SNP on YSEQ and it came back negative, it does not prove anything. I think a better investment for him was to test his Ydna through family tree dna.

aaronbee2010
01-15-2019, 03:35 PM
What I'm saying is, if you're using 23andMe to determine whether you're M124+/-, then it's not a reliable test. Specially when he has another SNP parallel to M124 that he's positive for (According to his MorleyDNA results). So naturally if he only tested that one SNP on YSEQ and it came back negative, it does not prove anything. I think a better investment for him was to test his Ydna through family tree dna.

Depends whether or not he was actually given a PF7510+ result. We don't know until he responds.

He also tested P249- according to his 23andMe data as well.

FTDNA is a good idea as he can infer his subclade from his closest STR matches.

He could also consider the R2-M479 Panel test from YSEQ as well. Its cheaper and will give him a detailed subclade result.

For now I'll just wait for his response to my post.

parasar
01-15-2019, 04:38 PM
It gave him the "R-PF7510 (R-F761, R-F1018)" designation, but in the results page, he didn't actually show whether or not he actually got positive results for PF7510. Mind you he didn't provide a full screenshot ...

I don't think Morley has PF7510 on their R2 branch. The placement on this branch is relying I believe on the other two positive SNPs.
That is why this is only a R2 designation as of now by Morley, not R2a.
"R2
R-PF7510 (R-F761, R-F1018)"

Morley:
PF7510 not on R2 subclade but on R1b1a2a1a2a1b
F761 between R2 and R2a
F1018 between R2 and R2a

YFull:
PF7510 Y3399 equivalent at present
F761 not on R clade but on O
F1018 M479 equivalent at present

aaronbee2010
01-15-2019, 05:05 PM
I don't think Morley has PF7510 on their R2 branch. The placement on this branch is relying I believe on the other two positive SNPs.
That is why this is only a R2 designation as of now by Morley, not R2a.
"R2
R-PF7510 (R-F761, R-F1018)"

Morley:
PF7510 not on R2 subclade but on R1b1a2a1a2a1b
F761 between R2 and R2a
F1018 between R2 and R2a

YFull:
PF7510 Y3399 equivalent at present
F761 not on R clade but on O
F1018 M479 equivalent at present

I completely agree :)

Morleys tree is really outdated, especially for R2 as well!

Tomasso29
01-15-2019, 05:29 PM
Depends whether or not he was actually given a PF7510+ result. We don't know until he responds.

He also tested P249- according to his 23andMe data as well.

FTDNA is a good idea as he can infer his subclade from his closest STR matches.

He could also consider the R2-M479 Panel test from YSEQ as well. Its cheaper and will give him a detailed subclade result.

For now I'll just wait for his response to my post.

Agreed, I think it's best to wait for Awan. I just think he's more likely to be R2a than R2b at this point if he's negative to SK2163 through YSEQ.

Btw, I just ran my raw data through Morley's tool, and I have some red colored SNPs above R2, so I'm not sure how this fully works. But I do remember seeing two topics on 23andMe where people were reporting differences between fathers and sons. The first case had a father that carried R-M207 (R*) and the son was R-L266 (R2a). The other case had the father carrying R-L295 (R2a1) and the son carrying R-L266 (R2a). So overall I'm not sure I trust 23andMe with their R2 accuracy.

parasar
01-15-2019, 07:24 PM
Agreed, I think it's best to wait for Awan. I just think he's more likely to be R2a than R2b at this point if he's negative to SK2163 through YSEQ.

Btw, I just ran my raw data through Morley's tool, and I have some red colored SNPs above R2, so I'm not sure how this fully works. But I do remember seeing two topics on 23andMe where people were reporting differences between fathers and sons. The first case had a father that carried R-M207 (R*) and the son was R-L266 (R2a). The other case had the father carrying R-L295 (R2a1) and the son carrying R-L266 (R2a). So overall I'm not sure I trust 23andMe with their R2 accuracy.

23andme has many SNPs missing unfortunately, but the ones they test usually are on the mark. I would not rely on Morley's tree, but check 23andme raw data for R2 branch SNPs. Does 23andme v5 test M124? If it does, he should run rs372706460 or i3000014 in the raw data search and find out its status.

In v2 I have the ancestral G:
intergenic i3000014 21764501 A or G G

Tomasso29
01-15-2019, 07:53 PM
23andme has many SNPs missing unfortunately, but the ones they test usually are on the mark. I would not rely on Morley's tree, but check 23andme raw data for R2 branch SNPs. Does 23andme v5 test M124? If it does, he should run rs372706460 or i3000014 in the raw data search and find out its status.

In v2 I have the ancestral G:
intergenic i3000014 21764501 A or G G

That's pretty much the only way to confirm, he has to check his raw data to see if he was even tested on that SNP or not. if the value is G, then it's safe to assume that he's M124-.

aaronbee2010
01-15-2019, 10:00 PM
23andme has many SNPs missing unfortunately, but the ones they test usually are on the mark. I would not rely on Morley's tree, but check 23andme raw data for R2 branch SNPs. Does 23andme v5 test M124? If it does, he should run rs372706460 or i3000014 in the raw data search and find out its status.

In v2 I have the ancestral G:
intergenic i3000014 21764501 A or G G

They do indeed test i3000014. My file says "A" (M124+)

aaronbee2010
01-15-2019, 10:07 PM
That's pretty much the only way to confirm, he has to check his raw data to see if he was even tested on that SNP or not. if the value is G, then it's safe to assume that he's M124-.

He may have G in his data. I don't know how else Morley would say he's M124-?

aaronbee2010
01-15-2019, 10:23 PM
Agreed, I think it's best to wait for Awan. I just think he's more likely to be R2a than R2b at this point if he's negative to SK2163 through YSEQ.

Btw, I just ran my raw data through Morley's tool, and I have some red colored SNPs above R2, so I'm not sure how this fully works. But I do remember seeing two topics on 23andMe where people were reporting differences between fathers and sons. The first case had a father that carried R-M207 (R*) and the son was R-L266 (R2a). The other case had the father carrying R-L295 (R2a1) and the son carrying R-L266 (R2a). So overall I'm not sure I trust 23andMe with their R2 accuracy.

When I first got my 23andMe results, I was initially assigned R-M207 along with quite a few relatives. After 23andMe released a reassignment for v5 users, me and every single one of those men were assigned somewhere under R2.

Did these fathers and sons test on different chips? I believe R-L295 is only assigned to v5 users based on my anecdotes. A user here has L1a2-M357 as an assignment and he tested with v4 whereas his father has L1-M22 and tested with v5. If my dad tested with v4 he would get R-L266 immediately whereas I tested with v5 and first got R-M207 then R-L266 myself.

I'm not writing off the possibility of 23andMe giving errors, however its not the only possible explanation.

MorleyDNA also has a outdated tree and gave a questionable prediction for PF7510.

Unfortunately we can't say anything with certainty at this point in time. I personally don't think he's been tested for PF7510 myself.

I have a feeling that we can least say he's M479+. I would recommend him taking the R2-M479 panel test personally.

Awan01
01-17-2019, 10:55 PM
@Awan01 could you open your 23andMe .txt file with Notepad, go to "Find" and type the following chromosome position numbers into the box: 21764501, 23046198. For each number, could you look at the letter (A, T, C or G) on the very right and tell me what letter you see (if the numbers are present on your file). I have a feeling you will be able to find 21764501 but not 23046198, but I would like to make sure!

Incase you're wondering: 21764501 = G (M124-), 21764501 = A (M124+), 23046198 = C (PF7510-), 23046198 = T (PF7510+).

@Tomasso29 So are you saying that he's Y3399+, M124-, or that he's M124+ and 23andMe gave false results?

This is really interesting. Maybe ISOGG might rename R2a to Y3399 and make R2a1 = M124 and R2a* = Y3399+, M124-? Or am I completely wrong? lol

Wow - I just checked back in to see if anyone had any new ideas and a whole host of messages appeared - thank you. I've read through them and I can understand where the confusion may have arisen. When I shared my Morley run (albeit the most interest part I felt) Aaronbee mentioned it might be an idea for me to test downstream from M124- which I was told was SK2163 so I did. I was thinking of confirming my M124- but decided to assume Morley would have scanned the 23andMe raw data so whatever that found woudn't change.

@Tomasso I did read DMXX original comment but as you say as I am not experienced in this field and receiving a whole host of opinions and comments it's not easy to navigate when a lot of what is said is based on conjecture.

That said I am very grateful to all of you for continuing to support this thread!

@Arronbee - have checked the raw data and the following is correct:

21764501 = G
23046198 = cannot be found.

Now that is strange as my Morely run showed this (PF7510-) up as red.

So clearly I am M124- which I assumed based on comments puts me on R2b*?? or am I once again in danger of being the 'poor guy' who is getting lost ;)

aaronbee2010
01-17-2019, 11:42 PM
Wow - I just checked back in to see if anyone had any new ideas and a whole host of messages appeared - thank you. I've read through them and I can understand where the confusion may have arisen. When I shared my Morley run (albeit the most interest part I felt) Aaronbee mentioned it might be an idea for me to test downstream from M124- which I was told was SK2163 so I did. I was thinking of confirming my M124- but decided to assume Morley would have scanned the 23andMe raw data so whatever that found woudn't change.

@Tomasso I did read DMXX original comment but as you say as I am not experienced in this field and receiving a whole host of opinions and comments it's not easy to navigate when a lot of what is said is based on conjecture.

That said I am very grateful to all of you for continuing to support this thread!

@Arronbee - have checked the raw data and the following is correct:

21764501 = G
23046198 = cannot be found.

Now that is strange as my Morely run showed this (PF7510-) up as red.

So clearly I am M124- which I assumed based on comments puts me on R2b*?? or am I once again in danger of being the 'poor guy' who is getting lost ;)

I knew it. You haven't actually been tested for PF7510 at all. You've tested M124- and P249- according to MorleyDNA. If M124 was red and P249 was green then it would be more likely that 23andMe was giving false negatives, however you being P249- as well makes things difficult. Tomasso29 made a point about fathers and sons getting different results however this could've been due to different chips. This wasn't checked for so we don't know exactly what the cause behind those cases were.

23andMe have given me a false negative on my mtDNA. They were saying that the genotype at position 9852 on my mtDNA was A, whereas FTDNA (full sequence) said it was G. 23andMe have quite a lot of no-calls in their raw data in my case (cases where they fail to determine the nucleotide (A, T, C, G) at some of the positions on my DNA (whole genome) that they tested. So I wouldn't rule out the possibility of 23andMe screwing up your Y-DNA.

Awan01
01-17-2019, 11:51 PM
Here is my full Morley run.

28481

Tomasso29
01-18-2019, 12:03 AM
Here is my full Morley run.

28481

In that case it's my bad then. You're most likely M124-. As aaronbee mentioned, the M479 panel test might be best.

aaronbee2010
01-18-2019, 12:16 AM
Here is my full Morley run.

https://i.gyazo.com/880f2d28e829d747e90c2425caeb45c9.png

Here's mine:

https://i.gyazo.com/628487490a4d14709fc4827ec068f570.png

If you look from Y-Adam all the way to R2, our results are absolutely identical!

It's literally only the R2a results that differ!

I'm pretty sure you come under R2-M479 at least. At this point you could either test for just the M124 SNP from YSEQ or just go straight for the R2-M479 panel (this is not recommended by me anymore, my reasons are given in the next sentence). I would probably consider just testing M124 first, as if you went for the panel and you turn out to be M124- and SK2166- (this is the R2b SNP YSEQ test for) then you would've wasted 68 pounds for no reason D:

If you do turn out to be M124-, you could either come under R2a (pre-M124), R2b (pre-SK2163) or even R2c. Unfortunately, the only safe options for you to get a detailed subclade result at this point in time would either be getting a STR test from FTDNA and attempting to infer your subclade via looking at the subclade of your closest matches, or just getting a full sequence. You can either consider a fundraiser for the latter option or just wait it out.

EDIT: The problem with FTDNA is a similar issue to the YSEQ panel, you could not get distinct matches to somebody under R2b or R2a (by distinct I mean at least a 37 marker match) so you'll be stuck on your own until some other dude in your position does the same thing and gets you as a match. The safest bet for you is the full sequence, as expensive as it is :(


In that case it's my bad then. You're most likely M124-. As aaronbee mentioned, the M479 panel test might be best.

Unfortunately, I can no longer recommend that panel to him! My reasons for this are stated above.

Rustyshakelford
01-18-2019, 02:56 AM
Hey guys,

I recently did an STR panel with YSEQ and I’m predicted to be R2. Should I go ahead and order the SNP panel or are there any other options you’d recommend? Big Y and NGS are bit outside my price range.

aaronbee2010
01-18-2019, 03:08 AM
Hey guys,

I recently did an STR panel with YSEQ and I’m predicted to be R2. Should I go ahead and order the SNP panel or are there any other options you’d recommend? Big Y and NGS are bit outside my price range.

Have you inputted your STR's into Nevgens predictor? Also, check DYS391, DYS392 and DYS426.

If you get DYS391=10, DYS392=10 and DYS426=12 then you most likely come under R2a-M124

Rustyshakelford
01-18-2019, 03:13 AM
Have you inputted your STR's into Nevgens predictor? Also, check DYS391, DYS392 and DYS426.

If you get DYS391=10, DYS392=10 and DYS426=12 then you most likely come under R2a-M124

Thanks, I’m DYS391=11, DYS392=10 and DYS426=12.

aaronbee2010
01-18-2019, 03:19 AM
Thanks, I’m DYS391=11, DYS392=10 and DYS426=12.

Interesting! Looking at the FTDNA project's STR's, there are a few people with DYS391=11, although it is definitely rare!

I would just check with Nevgens predictor to make sure. Just those three STR's alone give you a 48.4% chance of coming under R2-M479. Adding all the other STR's should take this to 100%.

Rustyshakelford
01-18-2019, 03:48 AM
Interesting! Looking at the FTDNA project's STR's, there are a few people with DYS391=11, although it is definitely rare!

I would just check with Nevgens predictor to make sure. Just those three STR's alone give you a 48.4% chance of coming under R2-M479. Adding all the other STR's should take this to 100%.

With the other STRs included I get a 98.1 percent chance according to Nevgen. I’m the only one in my ethnic group to have tested R2 as far as I know. I also checked the Kerala Syrian Christian and the Nair page but mine seems to differ at some of the STR positions.

aaronbee2010
01-18-2019, 04:02 AM
With the other STRs included I get a 98.1 percent chance according to Nevgen. I’m the only one in my ethnic group to have tested R2 as far as I know. I also checked the Kerala Syrian Christian and the Nair page but mine seems to differ at some of the STR positions.

I think it's safe to say you come under R2. R2 is fairly frequent in Kerala (not the highest, but still definitely significant).

http://www.mymcgee.com/tools/yutility.html?mode=ftdna_mode

You can plug in your Y-STR's as well as the other Kerala R2's and compare STR variation with more detail in the link above.

I would definitely go for the R2-M479 Panel from YSEQ, can absolutely recommend it to anyone who comes under R2-M479.

If you want peace of mind, you can consider purchasing the M479 SNP on its own first. You could skip this SNP, but do whatever makes you feel comfortable.

You'll probably come somewhere under R2a2b1b2b-L295, however where you come below there is anyone's guess at this point, although there's a very good chance you're SK2155-. We'll have to wait and see.

Nice to see another R2 on the forums. More R2's have started popping up here since I joined, so that's very nice to see :)

Rustyshakelford
01-18-2019, 05:03 AM
I think it's safe to say you come under R2. R2 is fairly frequent in Kerala (not the highest, but still definitely significant).

http://www.mymcgee.com/tools/yutility.html?mode=ftdna_mode

You can plug in your Y-STR's as well as the other Kerala R2's and compare STR variation with more detail in the link above.

I would definitely go for the R2-M479 Panel from YSEQ, can absolutely recommend it to anyone who comes under R2-M479.

If you want peace of mind, you can consider purchasing the M479 SNP on its own first. You could skip this SNP, but do whatever makes you feel comfortable.

You'll probably come somewhere under R2a2b1b2b-L295, however where you come below there is anyone's guess at this point, although there's a very good chance you're SK2155-. We'll have to wait and see.

Nice to see another R2 on the forums. More R2's have started popping up here since I joined, so that's very nice to see :)

Thanks for the help! I’m sure there’ll be more R2s to come, we gotta fight this R1 hegemony lol

aaronbee2010
01-18-2019, 05:49 AM
Thanks for the help! I’m sure there’ll be more R2s to come, we gotta fight this R1 hegemony lol

Amen to that brother!

Rustyshakelford
01-25-2019, 08:26 PM
Update: I’m L295+
So This confirms I’m R2a-M124 right?

aaronbee2010
01-26-2019, 01:00 AM
Update: I’m L295+
So This confirms I’m R2a-M124 right?

Yes! L295 comes under R2a2b1b2b, which comes below R2a-M124. The v a s t majority of R-M124 comes under R-L295. Judging by TMRCA (time to most recent common ancestor) values on YFull, R-L295 made its way into the Indian subcontinent somewhere around 1400 years before L-M27 (the line which I believe constituted roughly 90% of Indus Valley Civilisation inhabitants).

Out of curiosity, what company gave you a L295+ result?

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-L295
https://www.yfull.com/tree/L-M27

I would argue that R-L295 was the very first ANE line to enter South Asia in significant numbers, around 7500+ years ago from the Zagros Mountains, where R-L295 was born. Looking at the differences in TMRCA values (which are proportional to STR variance - more STR variance means men of a given line have been in a given region for longer, and this means larger TMRCA values) between R-L295 and L-M27, it would appear L-M27 men entered South Asia around 1400 years later and displaced the existing R-L295 population eastwards towards Bengal and Andhra Pradesh. I'm unsure if it went to West Bengal first then Andhra Pradesh or split up somewhere along the journey and one group ended up in Bengal and the other ended up in Andhra Pradesh.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_lvVZ6C97yUo/SqpTSFbIAVI/AAAAAAAAFlI/UkIXluPHUgk/s1600/prehistory+of+indian+y+chrom+-+3.jpg

NOTE: This picture was made before the M479 mutation was discovered, so R2 here was defined by the M124 marker, which in 2019 defines R2a! Non-NW South Asian R2a is inferred to be mostly R-L295 judging by the very strong pattern similarities between the distribution of R-L295 men on YFull and this picture [the only R2a (L295-) line which matches the distribution in the picture is R-Y26630, which I believe entered India alongside R-L295 albeit in significantly lower numbers].

I'm inclined to say the latter scenario is more valid considering the buildup of Andhra Pradesh R2a along the coastline (buildup of people often occurs when the sea prevents further travel, look at R1b-M269 in Western Europe being built up along the coastlines bordering the Atlantic Sea) would make more sense if the R-L295 group hit the Andhra Pradesh coastline at a downwards angle (which logically agrees with the modern distribution of R2a we see today) and clustering around Andhra Pradesh and spreading outwards in various directions from that Andhra Pradesh centre, rather than travelling down the coastline and randomly clustering halfway along the coastline journey, although this is just speculation on my part.

When L-M27 (a very populous lineage in Kerala) left the IVC, it seemed to follow a more direct route along the SW Indian Coastline all the way to Kerala and Tamil Nadu, before being halted by the southernmost tip of modern way Kanyakumari (I went there once, it was an absolute scorcher xD) which further suggests that these two groups were seperate for the most part (the same data that showed 90% L (most likely L-M27) was thought to have the remaining 10% under R2 according to an expert - Davidski) anyways. The modern distribution of R2 shows that the cluster around Andhra pradesh is very spread out, being seen in high numbers all the way from Odisha to Tamil Nadu and (mainly Southern Kerala) and even decent numbers further away from Andhra Pradesh (including North Kerala).

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/kerala?iframe=yresults

Overall, I would say R-L295 in Kerala is uncommon but definitely not rare. Nice results! :)

EDIT: YFull specimens who were assigned IN-AR actually come under IN-AP (this was a mistake on YFulls part). This can be confirmed by looking up the ID's of the IN-AR people on the 1000 Genomes Project.

Rustyshakelford
01-26-2019, 02:43 AM
Yes! L295 comes under R2a2b1b2b, which comes below R2a-M124. The v a s t majority of R-M124 comes under R-L295. Judging by TMRCA (time to most recent common ancestor) values on YFull, R-L295 made its way into the Indian subcontinent somewhere around 1400 years before L-M27 (the line which I believe constituted roughly 90% of Indus Valley Civilisation inhabitants).

Out of curiosity, what company gave you a L295+ result?

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-L295
https://www.yfull.com/tree/L-M27

I would argue that R-L295 was the very first ANE line to enter South Asia in significant numbers, around 7500+ years ago from the Zagros Mountains, where R-L295 was born. Looking at the differences in TMRCA values (which are proportional to STR variance - more STR variance means men of a given line have been in a given region for longer, and this means larger TMRCA values) between R-L295 and L-M27, it would appear L-M27 men entered South Asia around 1400 years later and displaced the existing R-L295 population eastwards towards Bengal and Andhra Pradesh. I'm unsure if it went to West Bengal first then Andhra Pradesh or split up somewhere along the journey and one group ended up in Bengal and the other ended up in Andhra Pradesh.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_lvVZ6C97yUo/SqpTSFbIAVI/AAAAAAAAFlI/UkIXluPHUgk/s1600/prehistory+of+indian+y+chrom+-+3.jpg

NOTE: This picture was made before the M479 mutation was discovered, so R2 here was defined by the M124 marker, which in 2019 defines R2a! Non-NW South Asian R2a is inferred to be mostly R-L295 judging by the very strong pattern similarities between the distribution of R-L295 men on YFull and this picture [the only R2a (L295-) line which matches the distribution in the picture is R-Y26630, which I believe entered India alongside R-L295 albeit in significantly lower numbers].

I'm inclined to say the latter scenario is more valid considering the buildup of Andhra Pradesh R2a along the coastline (buildup of people often occurs when the sea prevents further travel, look at R1b-M269 in Western Europe being built up along the coastlines bordering the Atlantic Sea) would make more sense if the R-L295 group hit the Andhra Pradesh coastline at a downwards angle (which logically agrees with the modern distribution of R2a we see today) and clustering around Andhra Pradesh and spreading outwards in various directions from that Andhra Pradesh centre, rather than travelling down the coastline and randomly clustering halfway along the coastline journey, although this is just speculation on my part.

When L-M27 (a very populous lineage in Kerala) left the IVC, it seemed to follow a more direct route along the SW Indian Coastline all the way to Kerala and Tamil Nadu, before being halted by the southernmost tip of modern way Kanyakumari (I went there once, it was an absolute scorcher xD) which further suggests that these two groups were seperate for the most part (the same data that showed 90% L (most likely L-M27) was thought to have the remaining 10% under R2 according to an expert - Davidski) anyways. The modern distribution of R2 shows that the cluster around Andhra pradesh is very spread out, being seen in high numbers all the way from Odisha to Tamil Nadu and (mainly Southern Kerala) and even decent numbers further away from Andhra Pradesh (including North Kerala).

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/kerala?iframe=yresults

Overall, I would say R-L295 in Kerala is uncommon but definitely not rare. Nice results! :)

EDIT: YFull specimens who were assigned IN-AR actually come under IN-AP (this was a mistake on YFulls part). This can be confirmed by looking up the ID's of the IN-AR people on the 1000 Genomes Project.

Thanks for the detailed response. I got an order update email from YSEQ a few days ago saying I’m L295 A+. It also told me that V3467 and Z29162 are still processing. I’m curious to know more about R2 since the majority of people in my community have tested as L-M357. Are there any other important SNPs I shud test that aren’t included in the YSEQ R2 panel?

aaronbee2010
01-27-2019, 03:27 AM
Thanks for the detailed response. I got an order update email from YSEQ a few days ago saying I’m L295 A+. It also told me that V3467 and Z29162 are still processing. I’m curious to know more about R2 since the majority of people in my community have tested as L-M357. Are there any other important SNPs I shud test that aren’t included in the YSEQ R2 panel?

I would wait until you get your final result before testing for additional SNPs. I believe YSEQ only test for SNPs that have been confirmed to be found in a minimum number of people. There are certain SNPs that only 1 or 2 people on YFull have, that don't currently meet the requirements to be added to YSEQ's tree. After your panel gives you a final result, you can test for additional SNPs that are on YFull but not YSEQ.

Many of R-L295's subclades have a similar distribution to each other, so I would also see if it's even worthwhile ordering extra SNPs too. Some subclades would make more sense for ordering additional SNPs than others. Again, it's best to wait until your panel results are final.

BMG
01-27-2019, 05:32 PM
Thanks for the detailed response. I got an order update email from YSEQ a few days ago saying I’m L295 A+. It also told me that V3467 and Z29162 are still processing. I’m curious to know more about R2 since the majority of people in my community have tested as L-M357. Are there any other important SNPs I shud test that aren’t included in the YSEQ R2 panel?

Two of my closest matches at ftdna are R2 . They are close match to each other as well so they might share same paternal ancestor .

Rustyshakelford
01-27-2019, 08:35 PM
Marker DYS393 DYS390 DYS19 DYS391 DYS385 DYS426 DYS388 DYS439 DYS389I DYS392 DYS389II
Value 14 23 14 11 12-18 12 13 10 12 10 28
FTDNA PANEL 2 (13-25)
Marker DYS458 DYS459 DYS455 DYS454 DYS447 DYS437 DYS448 DYS449 DYS464
Value 17 9-9 11 11 16 19 32 12-14-15-15
FTDNA PANEL 3 (26-37)
Marker DYS460 Y-GATA-H4 YCAII DYS456 DYS607 DYS576 DYS570 CDY DYS442 DYS438
Value 10 21-21 15 15 16 20 30-35 12 11

Heres my STRs, for some reason they omitted DYS447 and Y-GATA-H but I've contacted YSEQ and they said it should come in soon. I tried the mymcgee tool aaron posted but I'm not sure how to interpret it. can you check how well mine fits with your matches?

Amber29
02-02-2019, 10:40 AM
What does this mean?
2019-01-14 FGC12615 ChrY 20858562 20858562 T-
2019-01-14 L295 ChrY 5061844 5061844 K-

aaronbee2010
02-02-2019, 02:11 PM
What does this mean?
2019-01-14 FGC12615 ChrY 20858562 20858562 T-
2019-01-14 L295 ChrY 5061844 5061844 K-

O shet.

Almost all South Asian R2a's are FGC12615+ however your dad is FGC12615-.

wat.

Amber29
02-02-2019, 02:17 PM
O shet.

Almost all South Asian R2a's are FGC12615+ however your dad is FGC12615-.

wat.

I am still waiting i had a look at the fgc compared it to the yfull tree website - i think fgc13203 and fgc12586 in process - it was diffeent before but they correct it to these so meaning must be working on it.

aaronbee2010
02-02-2019, 02:26 PM
I am still waiting i had a look at the fgc compared it to the yfull tree website - i think fgc13203 and fgc12586 in process - it was diffeent before but they correct it to these so meaning must be working on it.

Those are the next SNP's they testing for. They are both the two daughter branches of P267.

If you get negative for both of these, I would wonder if AncestryDNA dun goofed with your dad's P267+ result :o

Did you say you tested him with 23andMe? If so, are his results still here yet?

Amber29
02-02-2019, 02:31 PM
Those are the next SNP's they testing for. They are both the two daughter branches of P267.

If you get negative for both of these, I would wonder if AncestryDNA dun goofed with your dad's P267+ result :o

Did you say you tested him with 23andMe? If so, are his results still here yet?

23andme are taking the P at the moment lol. - i have waited since 21 jan still in queue for Extraction - I am waiting since NOVEMBER 28!!!!!!!!!!!(got sent back a replacement kit and now im getting well paranoid dont want that happening again)! lol

i did email yseq and they still said yes you take the r2 panel - as i mentioned from ancestry and wegene - dont worry lol

what do you think what are the possibilities?

aaronbee2010
02-02-2019, 02:38 PM
23andme are taking the P at the moment lol. - i have waited since 21 jan still in queue for Extraction - I am waiting since NOVEMBER 28!!!!!!!!!!!(got sent back a replacement kit and now im getting well paranoid dont want that happening again)! lol

i did email yseq and they still said yes you take the r2 panel - as i mentioned from ancestry and wegene - dont worry lol

what do you think what are the possibilities?

I meant to ask if AncestryDNA messed up with your fathers results, as they declared him M479+ and P267+. Have YSEQ confirmed your dad M479+ first or did they go straight to FGC12615 and L295?

My parents and maternal uncle sent off the kits in late December and got their results around a month later. RIP :(

I think your dad's first kit failed quality control, so they sent you another one. When did they receive the second kit?

Amber29
02-02-2019, 02:44 PM
I meant to ask if AncestryDNA messed up with your fathers results, as they declared him M479+ and P267+. Have YSEQ confirmed your dad M479+ first or did they go straight to FGC12615 and L295?

My parents and maternal uncle sent off the kits in late December and got their results around a month later. RIP :(

I think your dad's first kit failed quality control, so they sent you another one. When did they receive the second kit?

they received it on the 21 jan - but apparantly its normal

yes they confirmed it saying yes you take the R2 panel specifically i got two emails sent which they did today one was different but then the second one email said 'Correction' and then im telling you this and both of these results did show that regardless i was fgc12615-

(i have gone through the emails again and they have confirmed this) lol

Please pray my dads results come soon i need prayers lol -

aaronbee2010
02-02-2019, 02:55 PM
they received it on the 21 jan - but apparantly its normal

yes they confirmed it saying yes you take the R2 panel specifically i got two emails sent which they did today one was different but then the second one email said 'Correction' and then im telling you this and both of these results did show that regardless i was fgc12615-

(i have gone through the emails again and they have confirmed this) lol

Please pray my dads results come soon i need prayers lol -

I asked if YSEQ gave your dad a M479+ result first just to make sure

Amber29
02-02-2019, 02:58 PM
I meant to ask if AncestryDNA messed up with your fathers results, as they declared him M479+ and P267+. Have YSEQ confirmed your dad M479+ first or did they go straight to FGC12615 and L295?

My parents and maternal uncle sent off the kits in late December and got their results around a month later. RIP :(

I think your dad's first kit failed quality control, so they sent you another one. When did they receive the second kit?

I get you now they went straight into it? i think. but when i checked it on my dads anctestry raw data i did have a look and it was P267+ anyway i couldnt see anything beyond that anyway...or compare it.

Edit: this is what i see on my order list:
FGC12586
FGC12615
FGC13203
L295
R2-M479 Panel

Tomasso29
02-02-2019, 05:46 PM
O shet.

Almost all South Asian R2a's are FGC12615+ however your dad is FGC12615-.

wat.

While uncommon, I do see 2 South Asian R2a's under R-FGC13203, this branch has been mostly found in the Middle East and Eastern Europe, though a Chinese sample has come up recently so that's interesting as well:

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R2/

aaronbee2010
02-02-2019, 06:18 PM
I get you now they went straight into it? i think. but when i checked it on my dads anctestry raw data i did have a look and it was P267+ anyway i couldnt see anything beyond that anyway...or compare it.

Edit: this is what i see on my order list:
FGC12586
FGC12615
FGC13203
L295
R2-M479 Panel

You want to check your alleles on your profile. See if your father has already tested M479+

Amber29
02-02-2019, 06:23 PM
You want to check your alleles on your profile. See if your father has already tested M479+

i did check it and its not on there its like the are working backward up the tree lol

aaronbee2010
02-02-2019, 07:29 PM
While uncommon, I do see 2 South Asian R2a's under R-FGC13203, this branch has been mostly found in the Middle East and Eastern Europe, though a Chinese sample has come up recently so that's interesting as well:

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R2/

Would you say this is a possible candidate for the R2a found in Buryats and Kalmyks?

Tomasso29
02-03-2019, 12:07 AM
Would you say this is a possible candidate for the R2a found in Buryats and Kalmyks?

Could be, I noticed in the R2 WTY project there are potential F1092+ samples from Kazakhstan, so it's possible.

Amber29
02-05-2019, 10:13 PM
i have an update and I have been tested Positive for:
FGC13203 ChrY 12025415 12025415 G+

Tomasso29
02-06-2019, 05:42 PM
i have an update and I have been tested Positive for:
FGC13203 ChrY 12025415 12025415 G+

This is your tree:

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-FGC13203/

Any future testing should be under that SNP.

Amber29
02-06-2019, 08:07 PM
This is your tree:

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-FGC13203/

Any future testing should be under that SNP.

Yesss - i am waiting for the end results - the wait is so long lol...

thank you btw :)

Amber29
02-09-2019, 10:01 AM
I am being tested for these next? are they going to test other things because there are other clades under the fgc13203?

F1092 processing
FGC13184 processing

aaronbee2010
02-09-2019, 09:08 PM
I am being tested for these next? are they going to test other things because there are other clades under the fgc13203?

F1092 processing
FGC13184 processing

It's a similar logic to when your dad was first tested for L295 and then Y8763 first instead of being tested at the top of the tree for M479 and working down from there (i.e. M479 > M124 > P267 > ...). The majority of R2 men come under Y8763 and L295, so it makes sense to test those two SNPs first in the interest of time.

To give an example, if there's a 99% chance an M479+ man taking the test is L295+, it makes sense to test that SNP first, as he's likely to be positive for it, and if he is, then a lot of time has been saved compared to starting from the top of the tree and working downwards.

It's the same logic here. Most FGC13203+ men come under F1092 and FGC13184. This isn't apparent on YFull, but FTDNA has the majority of FGC13203 samples coming under F1092 and FGC13184 (FTDNA has FGC13219, which is phylogenetically equivalent to FGC13184).

They're testing FGC13184 first, then F1092, as these are the most common subclades of FGC13203, so your father is more likely to come under one of them at least.

Amber29
02-09-2019, 09:39 PM
It's a similar logic to when your dad was first tested for L295 and then Y8763 first instead of being tested at the top of the tree for M479 and working down from there (i.e. M479 > M124 > P267 > ...). The majority of R2 men come under Y8763 and L295, so it makes sense to test those two SNPs first in the interest of time.

To give an example, if there's a 99% chance an M479+ man taking the test is L295+, it makes sense to test that SNP first, as he's likely to be positive for it, and if he is, then a lot of time has been saved compared to starting from the top of the tree and working downwards.

It's the same logic here. Most FGC13203+ men come under F1092 and FGC13184. This isn't apparent on YFull, but FTDNA has the majority of FGC13203 samples coming under F1092 and FGC13184 (FTDNA has FGC13219, which is phylogenetically equivalent to FGC13184).

They're testing FGC13184 first, then F1092, as these are the most common subclades of FGC13203, so your father is more likely to come under one of them at least.

this is what i was exactly thinking i had was looking at the list on r2 and FT and i was figuring out the pattern lol. but you are right - but i just wanted to be sure...( i like putting the pieces together - along with some kind of certainty lol)

Amber29
02-14-2019, 02:15 PM
Test negative for F1092 next one is FGC13188 Processing

aaronbee2010
02-14-2019, 02:22 PM
Test negative for F1092 next one is FGC13188 Processing

Almost all Jewish R2's are F1092+, so that's ruled out

Amber29
02-14-2019, 02:28 PM
i just cant wait to get the FULL on results already

aaronbee2010
02-15-2019, 04:28 PM
Just bought a Dante Labs WGS kit with their €199.00 code. Will be maybe a year or so before I can add to the R2 tree but better late than never amirite?

Amber29
02-15-2019, 04:35 PM
Just bought a Dante Labs WGS kit with their €199.00 code. Will be maybe a year or so before I can add to the R2 tree but better late than never amirite?

long term sense it will be beneficial - these days to wait for a result i think we all know what it feels like waiting lol...but i think its better late than never :D esp when you get a discount like that lol

Ps please do share the updates with us - perhaps someone else including me may join the crew too - even though if it means im not your subclade lol

aaronbee2010
02-15-2019, 04:58 PM
long term sense it will be beneficial - these days to wait for a result i think we all know what it feels like waiting lol...but i think its better late than never :D esp when you get a discount like that lol

Ps please do share the updates with us - perhaps someone else including me may join the crew too - even though if it means im not your subclade lol

The results should be good for life, as they can constantly be updated as new SNPs are discovered. The only improvement would be a higher coverage test with more quality, which I may do in the future, but this will keep me going for now

I'll definitely keep you all posted, as long as that takes lol

All R2's are cool with me (even R2b) ;) subclade isn't that important as long as the R2 tree continues to grow. That's what I really want right now

Rustyshakelford
02-16-2019, 06:15 PM
Thanks for the detailed response. I got an order update email from YSEQ a few days ago saying Iím L295 A+. It also told me that V3467 and Z29162 are still processing. Iím curious to know more about R2 since the majority of people in my community have tested as L-M357. Are there any other important SNPs I shud test that arenít included in the YSEQ R2 panel?

Update: Iím V3467+

Amber29
02-17-2019, 12:57 PM
https://phylogeographer.com/mygrations/

you can find out your haplogroup migration - its interesting xD I am unable to upload a picture.

aaronbee2010
02-17-2019, 10:25 PM
https://phylogeographer.com/mygrations/

you can find out your haplogroup migration - its interesting xD I am unable to upload a picture.

https://i.gyazo.com/cc74779cdee8a8ce352a232e613a7ffc.png

Looked at the path for Y1383. Apparently my subclade left the Zagros around 8400 BC, entered Pakistan around 7300 BC, leaves Pakistan around 6700 BC then travels through the gulf of Oman and enters Oman around 5000 BC, then leaves Oman around 4800 BC then travels through the gulf of Oman AGAIN and enters Gujarat around 3600 BC. Apparently R-SK2142 (Y1378) originated IN THE SEA.

WAT.

Amber29
02-17-2019, 10:28 PM
https://i.gyazo.com/cc74779cdee8a8ce352a232e613a7ffc.png

Looked at the path for Y1383. Apparently my subclade left the Zagros around 8400 BC, entered Pakistan around 7300 BC, leaves Pakistan around 6700 BC then travels through the gulf of Oman and enters Oman around 5000 BC, then leaves Oman around 4800 BC then travels through the gulf of Oman AGAIN and enters Gujarat around 3600 BC. Apparently R-SK2142 (Y1378) originated IN THE SEA.

WAT.

i think they got this from YFull there is one dude in IN-GJ on there but i think that may have been the migration - how did you manage to upload a pic mine kept failing?

aaronbee2010
02-17-2019, 10:35 PM
i think they got this from YFull there is one dude in IN-GJ on there but i think that may have been the migration - how did you manage to upload a pic mine kept failing?

Gyazo my boi.

Most of their info is from YFull, hence the s**tshow seen here xD

aaronbee2010
02-25-2019, 09:04 PM
My Dante Labs kit arrived this afternoon. I've collected my saliva in the collection tube, and it's ready to be shipped off tomorrow.

Will probably take an age, but better late than never amirite?

Amber29
02-25-2019, 09:19 PM
My Dante Labs kit arrived this afternoon. I've collected my saliva in the collection tube, and it's ready to be shipped off tomorrow.

Will probably take an age, but better late than never amirite?

Yes - if you find anything interested that related to anthrogenica do share! xD I think i might skip Dante labs -I am more genealogy interested - (I still have no clue what it can do for me personally and how to use it) LOL! (I can be slow and blonde at times)


Im still waiting for my YSEQ results last part - TAKING FOREVER omg (apparently its last part FGC13188) - I keep emailing them - must be getting sick of me LOL! last week was meant to be the week for me - unless they are fulfilling their 5 weeks by me annoying them lol.

aaronbee2010
02-25-2019, 09:53 PM
Yes - if you find anything interested that related to anthrogenica do share! xD I think i might skip Dante labs -I am more genealogy interested - (I still have no clue what it can do for me personally and how to use it) LOL! (I can be slow and blonde at times)


Im still waiting for my YSEQ results last part - TAKING FOREVER omg (apparently its last part FGC13188) - I keep emailing them - must be getting sick of me LOL! last week was meant to be the week for me - unless they are fulfilling their 5 weeks by me annoying them lol.

It's cool for health. They look at all of your DNA (with varying degrees of coverage, and therefore varying quality of reads) so you can look way more diseases than 23andMe (who I think only look at 0.01% of your DNA). Your results (in theory) should be good for life, as new health-related SNPs that are discovered can be checked against your existing DNA files, so you should never need an update (unless the SNPs discovered are in an area of your DNA that got sub-par coverage, but Dante Labs is 30x, which is pretty good!). It's also an mtDNA full sequence (and Y-DNA if applicable).

It's also nice for adding your dad to that j u i c y YFull tree, if you use the test on him :P

Amber29
02-25-2019, 10:14 PM
It's cool for health. They look at all of your DNA (with varying degrees of coverage, and therefore varying quality of reads) so you can look way more diseases than 23andMe (who I think only look at 0.01% of your DNA). Your results (in theory) should be good for life, as new health-related SNPs that are discovered can be checked against your existing DNA files, so you should never need an update (unless the SNPs discovered are in an area of your DNA that got sub-par coverage, but Dante Labs is 30x, which is pretty good!). It's also an mtDNA full sequence (and Y-DNA if applicable).

It's also nice for adding your dad to that j u i c y YFull tree, if you use the test on him :P

I know you are trying to convince me here lol - until i find the need maybe meanwhile depending on outcome of yseq i might just do FTDNA BIGY (for the JUICY Yfull LOL plus the matches) - and dante labs or FGC have an offer on then yes but I will buy these test and test him on ONE DAY ahaha (this way im not annoying him - and ofcourse when I am not skint which i am till next month)

if i need further advice i know your the person to come to lol

aaronbee2010
02-25-2019, 10:39 PM
I know you are trying to convince me here lol - until i find the need maybe meanwhile depending on outcome of yseq i might just do FTDNA BIGY (for the JUICY Yfull LOL plus the matches) - and dante labs or FGC have an offer on then yes but I will buy these test and test him on ONE DAY ahaha (this way im not annoying him - and ofcourse when I am not skint which i am till next month)

if i need further advice i know your the person to come to lol

Bruh xD. You asked what WGS can do for you personally and I answered. No convincing here. Maybe if I got some referral code I might try and be a bit c h e e k y :P

Amber29
02-25-2019, 10:52 PM
Bruh xD. You asked what WGS can do for you personally and I answered. No convincing here. Maybe if I got some referral code I might try and be a bit c h e e k y :P

now your talking lol - u got my attention - lets just hope its affordable at that time :D

aaronbee2010
02-25-2019, 10:55 PM
now your talking lol - u got my attention - lets just hope its affordable at that time :D

You definitely want to wait for a discount. FGC doesn't look like they're doing discounts any more than they already have (405 quid for Y Elite 2.1 is really good as is). FTDNA do regular discounts throughout the year, so its always best to wait. Dante Labs should give good offers not-too-rarely. If I get an email of a notable Dante Labs discount, I'll post it.

Amber29
02-27-2019, 05:11 PM
SOOOO I received and update today, and the FINAL update is R2-FGC13203* what next? take the BIG-y?... and get put on that tree for sure xD

aaronbee2010
02-27-2019, 06:59 PM
SOOOO I received and update today, and the FINAL update is R2-FGC13203* what next? take the BIG-y?... and get put on that tree for sure xD

Don't let that distract you from the real issue here.......What happened to the "c" at the end of your mtDNA. A real Scooby Doo right there o.O

In all seriousness, I take it your father is FGC13188-.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-FGC13203*

There's a lonely Indian dude in your father's group. I would be curious to see how close your father would be to that Indian sample :P That would involve a......WGS test!

Amber29
02-27-2019, 07:16 PM
Don't let that distract you from the real issue here.......What happened to the "c" at the end of your mtDNA. A real Scooby Doo right there o.O

In all seriousness, I take it your father is FGC13188-.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-FGC13203*

There's a lonely Indian dude in your father's group. I would be curious to see how close your father would be to that Indian sample :P That would involve a......WGS test!

Yes I had a look lol - i am curious to see this person too - probably 9200 years ago? LOL... or will that change once i get the bam files? (its a shame YSEQ ydna wont allow this to happen for the file to be on there - this guy didnt test with FTDNA im assuming tried to look it up lol haha and yes tested negative for 13188!

I just thought untill further notice id leave it on W1 for now even though it will be C area lol (dont ask me why i took the c off but i get unsure at times after especially realising how many other subclades there was and the other with how my dads mtdna worked learnt a lesson there) LOL

(i get anxious easily too and when it comes to this i get too excited before i even get the results)

Amber29
02-27-2019, 07:17 PM
Don't let that distract you from the real issue here.......What happened to the "c" at the end of your mtDNA. A real Scooby Doo right there o.O

In all seriousness, I take it your father is FGC13188-.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-FGC13203*

There's a lonely Indian dude in your father's group. I would be curious to see how close your father would be to that Indian sample :P That would involve a......WGS test!

wont bigY do that?

aaronbee2010
02-27-2019, 07:26 PM
wont bigY do that?

Answer the question at the top of my previous comment pls. I won't be able to sleep at night otherwise :(

And if you're talking about adding your dad to the YFull tree, FTDNA Big Y will indeed do that, as will FGC Y Elite and Dante Labs 30x WGS.

Amber29
02-27-2019, 08:22 PM
Answer the question at the top of my previous comment pls. I won't be able to sleep at night otherwise :(

And if you're talking about adding your dad to the YFull tree, FTDNA Big Y will indeed do that, as will FGC Y Elite and Dante Labs 30x WGS.

I did respond lol - except i wrote it in a long message where you may have skipped the reading muahah xD

about the W1/w1c

I wrote this (i dont know how to quote)
I just thought until further notice id leave it on W1 for now even though it will be C area lol (dont ask me why i took the c off but i get unsure at times after especially realising how many other subclades there was and the other with how my dads mtdna worked learnt a lesson there) LOL

(i get anxious easily too and when it comes to this i get too excited before i even get the results)

aaronbee2010
02-27-2019, 08:28 PM
I did respond lol - except i wrote it in a long message where you may have skipped the reading muahah xD

about the W1/w1c

I wrote this (i dont know how to quote)
I just thought until further notice id leave it on W1 for now even though it will be C area lol (dont ask me why i took the c off but i get unsure at times after especially realising how many other subclades there was and the other with how my dads mtdna worked learnt a lesson there) LOL

(i get anxious easily too and when it comes to this i get too excited before i even get the results)

Omg I feel like a dumbass now xD. Apparently, scrolling up requires too much cognitive processing for me. Goodness knows how I managed to make it to 23 years old without jumping into a fire or off a cliff LOL

aaronbee2010
02-27-2019, 08:29 PM
Double post. I'm on fire right now! XD

Amber29
02-27-2019, 08:46 PM
Double post. I'm on fire right now! XD

its okay lol!! Ive decided to go for the BIG-Y for now - since I want matches too....if i find the need to do WGS i'll add that on - when needed lol

Amber29
02-27-2019, 08:47 PM
Double post. I'm on fire right now! XD

also if you happen to find any info on my subclade - it would be great! lol thanks :D

aaronbee2010
02-27-2019, 11:04 PM
also if you happen to find any info on my subclade - it would be great! lol thanks :D

Literally every single FGC13203+ man on FTDNA's R2-M124-WTY is also FGC13188/FGC13192+.

The only FGC13203+, FGC13188- man I can find is the single man here: [URL]https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-FGC13203*[URL]

I googled his ID and he was actually a sample from the Mondal et al. 2016 study "Genomic analysis of Andamanese provides insights into ancient human migration into Asia and adaptation". He's an Uttar Pradesh Brahmin and his mtDNA subclade is U2e3.

aaronbee2010
02-27-2019, 11:12 PM
Yes I had a look lol - i am curious to see this person too - probably 9200 years ago? LOL... or will that change once i get the bam files? (its a shame YSEQ ydna wont allow this to happen for the file to be on there - this guy didnt test with FTDNA im assuming tried to look it up lol haha and yes tested negative for 13188!

I just thought untill further notice id leave it on W1 for now even though it will be C area lol (dont ask me why i took the c off but i get unsure at times after especially realising how many other subclades there was and the other with how my dads mtdna worked learnt a lesson there) LOL

(i get anxious easily too and when it comes to this i get too excited before i even get the results)

That 9200 year TMRCA value is just for everyone who is FGC13203+. Your father and ERR1812171 most likely have a much lower TMRCA value.

Amber29
02-27-2019, 11:18 PM
Literally every single FGC13203+ man on FTDNA's R2-M124-WTY is also FGC13188/FGC13192+.

The only FGC13203+, FGC13188- man I can find is the single man here: [URL]https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-FGC13203*[URL]

I googled his ID and he was actually a sample from the Mondal et al. 2016 study "Genomic analysis of Andamanese provides insights into ancient human migration into Asia and adaptation". He's an Uttar Pradesh Brahmin and his mtDNA subclade is U2e3.

I need this skill at this time - lol do you have the link? you must have google deep to get the info from the ID out lol.

aaronbee2010
02-27-2019, 11:27 PM
I need this skill at this time - lol do you have the link? you must have google deep to get the info from the ID out lol.

The time between googling his ID and finding his ethnic group was only about 3 minutes LUL

Study: https://afanporsaber.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Genomic-analysis-of-Andamanese-provides-insights-into-ancient-human.pdf

Supplementary Data: https://media.nature.com/original/nature-assets/ng/journal/v48/n9/extref/ng.3621-S1.pdf

laltota
02-27-2019, 11:46 PM
That 9200 year TMRCA value is just for everyone who is FGC13203+. Your father and ERR1812171 most likely have a much lower TMRCA value.

Could they, or one of them, end up being in a new sub-branch under R-FGC13203?

aaronbee2010
02-27-2019, 11:49 PM
Could they, or one of them, end up being in a new sub-branch under R-FGC13203?

I think for a new branch to be made it needs at least two people to begin with, so either her dad and ERR1812171 are both in a new branch together or a third man comes in and a new branch is formed with two of the three men being in the new branch and one remaining in the paragroup. I think both options are indeed likely!

laltota
03-07-2019, 11:58 AM
i think they got this from YFull there is one dude in IN-GJ on there but i think that may have been the migration - how did you manage to upload a pic mine kept failing?

I don't think anybody replied you on pic upload. If you have the URL of the pic, then easiest way seems to be to insert following in text of post : URL

You can also insert pic using the little "Insert Image" icon in middle row of icons. If picture then is uploaded from PC with the "From Computer" tab, I think it gets inserted as a thumbnail people can select to see full pic. If pic is inserted with the "From URL" tab option, then I think it is a thumbnail if option "Retrieve remote file and reference locally" is selected, or pic is inserted fully inline if this option is not selected.

If you want to insert a customised pic that is on your PC, then you can first upload it to an image hosting site like imgbox.com, get URL from there and insert in post.
You can check your post first with the Preview Post option to make sure it looks as you want it.

btw - I tried to send you this by PM but your message space is full. You need to free space by delete or download some msgs to your PC.

Amber29
03-07-2019, 12:03 PM
I don't think anybody replied you on pic upload. If you have the URL of the pic, then easiest way seems to be to insert following in text of post : URL

You can also insert pic using the little "Insert Image" icon in middle row of icons. If picture then is uploaded from PC with the "From Computer" tab, I think it gets inserted as a thumbnail people can select to see full pic. If pic is inserted with the "From URL" tab option, then I think it is a thumbnail if option "Retrieve remote file and reference locally" is selected, or pic is inserted fully inline if this option is not selected.

If you want to insert a customised pic that is on your PC, then you can first upload it to an image hosting site like imgbox.com, get URL from there and insert in post.
You can check your post first with the Preview Post option to make sure it looks as you want it.

btw - I tried to send you this by PM but your message space is full. You need to free space by delete or download some msgs to your PC.

Thank you! i find the whole image process link abit long lol and ive deleted my messages i was out and recieved the email while filling up haha!