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Wing Genealogist
08-30-2018, 06:42 PM
I have been working on Mayflower lines as of late. I decided to look at how many Mayflower lines I have been able to document in my own ancestry and was a bit surprised to find that to date I have documented 13 lines of descent via 13 different Mayflower passengers (Lucky I'm not superstitious :biggrin1:)

I have three lines of descent from William Brewster (which includes his wife Mary) and Henry Samson

I have two lines of descent from Stephen Hopkins (both from daughter Constance), two lines from John Howland (which includes his wife, Elizabeth Tilley and her parents John & Joan)

Finally I have one line of descent from Thomas Rogers (and his son Joseph), Francis Cooke and Degory Priest.

I have (to date) only joined the General Society of Mayflower Descendants (GSMD) under one of my Brewster lines, and have also joined the Pilgrim John Howland Society. However, I am reasonably confident all of the above lines are adequately documented so that I could join the GSMD.

Can anyone beat those numbers (either in number of lines, or number of passengers)?

Dewsloth
08-30-2018, 07:21 PM
I'm just Warren (Richard>Sarah) and Cooke (Francis>John>Mary), as far as I know. But you've reminded me I need to complete my paperwork...

Grossvater
08-31-2018, 03:16 AM
I personally can only claim Stephen Hopkins and Stephen's son Giles (by his first marriage). My half-sister, on the other hand claims not only Stephen Hopkins paternally but maternally as well for she comes from Stephen and his second wife, the Mayflower passenger Elizabeth Fisher Hopkins. My half-sister can also claim William & Mary Brewster, their son Love Brewster, Francis Cooke, Richard Warren, John Alden, his wife Priscilla Mullins and her parents William & Alice Mullins. But that's only twelve.

geebee
08-31-2018, 04:36 PM
I don't have any Mayflower passengers in my tree, as far as I know. But my wife and daughter have William & Mary Brewster (via Love); William and Susannah White (via Peregrine, who technically only made the voyage in utero); and Edward Doty.

I can well believe figures like "35 million descendants" of Mayflower passengers. There's also an estimate of only 20 million, but that's still "a bunch".;)

EDIT:

Most descendants won't have any DNA from any of these ancestors, but in this large of a group it's likely that some will. The problem will be with how many happen to share an overlapping segment with another descendant. (And being sure that there isn't any other shared ancestry that could account for such a segment.)

And, of course, there may well be some men in Y-DNA line, and both men and women in an mtDNA line.

2nd EDIT:

Maybe it's been posted elsewhere, but according to this source (https://www.themayflowersociety.org/blog/item/309-new-partnership-with-ftdna-and-gsmd), "So far, all but three direct male lines have been identified."

Dewsloth
08-31-2018, 04:48 PM
My dad is the end of our particular line for Elizabeth Walker Warren's H1j mtDNA. We do show some matching folks on the Cooke/Warren line(s) in Family Finder.

But like you say, there are millions. I've seen one estimate that Warren alone has ~14 million descendants.

Edit: I think the reason we only have the one line is that John Cooke got kicked out of the community, so his children didn't marry back into the Plymouth group:


At some point during the late 1640s, John Cooke "fell into the error of Anabaptistry," and was cast out of the Plymouth Church. The Church record states: "This John Cooke although a shallow man became a cause of trouble and dissension in our Church and gave just occasion of their casting him out; so that Solomon's words proved true in him that one sinner destroyeth much good."

John Cooke removed from Plymouth and took up residence in Dartmouth, where he died in 1695. His wife Sarah [Warren] was still alive in 1696, called "a very ancient woman"; her exact death date was not recorded but it was probably not long after.http://mayflowerhistory.com/cooke-john/

RandomUsernameGuy
09-01-2018, 04:03 AM
I got Brewster and Warren, so no. But just curious, how are there some Mayflower descendants who have like 10 passengers on their list? Did their parents use a "Mayflower descendant" dating service to meet or something?

Wing Genealogist
09-01-2018, 11:27 AM
I got Brewster and Warren, so no. But just curious, how are there some Mayflower descendants who have like 10 passengers on their list? Did their parents use a "Mayflower descendant" dating service to meet or something?

Actually, my Mayflower lines are not closely related. I have Mayflower ancestry from seven of my eight great-grandparents. My family is almost 100% descended from colonial Massachusetts (including Maine) and New Hampshire, so they had a lot of opportunity to marry into Mayflower lines.

I do have a Mayflower passenger marrying a fellow Mayflower Passenger (Howland-Tilley), but I don't have a child of a Mayflower passengers marrying a child of Mayflower passenger.

msmarjoribanks
09-01-2018, 02:40 PM
I got Brewster and Warren, so no. But just curious, how are there some Mayflower descendants who have like 10 passengers on their list? Did their parents use a "Mayflower descendant" dating service to meet or something?

I think it was pretty common for descendants to marry each other early on -- there weren't that many people in the area and early generations had lots of children.

I've always thought it odd that I don't seem to have any on my paternal grandmother's line since that line has many who came in the 1630s, but I went back and looked and realized it makes sense as my early settlers (several in Salem) seem to have largely turned Quaker and gone to Nantucket (one family partially stayed in Salem, but their religion was constantly an issue). The Gorhams are descendants (Desire Howland married John Gorham, and she is a daughter and granddaughter of Mayflower passengers, apparently), and they intermarried with lots of early Nantucket Quaker families, but not any of my ancestors.

I have New England early colonial on other lines, but don't have them proven back far enough to know.

johnthe
01-30-2019, 06:21 AM
I thought I was lucky to have a sole confirmed line of descent from one passenger, John Howland, but I'll have to work a little harder and see if I can find any more. Statistically speaking the figure that is quoted for Mayflower passenger descendants is 35 million, but I wonder if the number is actually that high because a high mortality rate in early settlements probably wasn't taken into account.

Baltimore1937
01-28-2021, 07:45 AM
I just bumped into a Mayflower ancestor, and therefore her family. Elizabeth Tilley, 1607-1686. She married John Howland, 1602-1672. She is a direct ancestor of mine in my newly discovered maternal grandfather's branch. Grandfather by DNA only. My grandmother had to marry someone else before my mother was born. This E. Tilley line comes via a Fargo connection.

rms2
01-29-2021, 04:02 AM
Via my second great grandmother, Olive Augusta Washburn, wife of my Y-DNA second great grandfather, James Holmes Stevens, I am descended from Myles Standish; John Alden and Priscilla Mullins; Francis Cooke; and George Soule. Of course, Priscilla's father and mother, William and Alice Mullins, were also on board the Mayflower.

A number of my female relatives have been members of the Mayflower Society, and a male second cousin of mine is currently a member. He told me I could join pretty easily, but for some reason that has just never been my thing.

Maybe I'll talk to him again about it and join.

pmokeefe
01-29-2021, 06:05 AM
Like several others, William and Mary Brewster (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Brewster_(Mayflower_passenger)) were my ancestors, but via their son Jonathan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Brewster).
A distant cousin documented my family's connection to the Brewsters with traditional genealogical methods long before the days of consumer DNA testing. I was originally skeptical, in particular of the key link in her thesis, a woman named Nancy Latimer who was born in Connecticut before 1800, married in Tennessee and died in Southern Illinois, where my father's family ended up. However, Ancestry DNA provided numerous matches with the Latimers and others on the line between myself and the Brewsters, so now my cousin's analysis seems plausible.

rms2
01-29-2021, 01:42 PM
I was glancing at the Mayflower Society membership requirements. Think I might apply, but I noticed it has to be done through the state society in the state where one lives. Since I am planning to retire at the end of this school year and move to another state, I will wait until I get where I am going and apply through that state's society.

JerryS.
01-29-2021, 02:05 PM
are these DNA matches from specific confirmed kits?

rms2
01-29-2021, 05:33 PM
are these DNA matches from specific confirmed kits?

Is that question for me?

Anyway, in case it is, the answer is no. My claim to descent from some of the Mayflower passengers is based on a long-standing, well documented and established genealogical paper trail.

There are some DNA matches that bolster it, but they did not come first, and the claim is not based on them.

The whole Mayflower thing is something I have known about since I was a kid and kind of took for granted, which is probably why it never was a big deal to me.

JerryS.
01-29-2021, 06:40 PM
Is that question for me?

Anyway, in case it is, the answer is no. My claim to descent from some of the Mayflower passengers is based on a long-standing, well documented and established genealogical paper trail.

There are some DNA matches that bolster it, but they did not come first, and the claim is not based on them.

The whole Mayflower thing is something I have known about since I was a kid and kind of took for granted, which is probably why it never was a big deal to me.

No that question was just a general question like if there were some gedmatch kit numbers or something to see if I would match because I have like many others some colonial English ancestry

rms2
01-29-2021, 07:02 PM
Hard to get very many autosomal DNA matches that far back with any confidence.

Those who are lucky enough to be Y-DNA descendants of a Mayflower passenger are better off when it comes to DNA evidence.

Wing Genealogist
01-29-2021, 08:30 PM
Like rms2, my Mayflower lines come from traditional "paper-trail" research, rather than DNA. I would have to echo his last remarks.

There are a small number of folks who have discovered where they are an "umbilical" descendant of a Mayflower passenger (or their spouse) and their mtDNA is useful for other research. The General Society of Mayflower Descendants (GSMD) has begun to accept Y-DNA and mtDNA evidence to link (I believe) a single generation where records are missing.

Baltimore1937
01-30-2021, 12:40 AM
I just bumped into a Mayflower ancestor, and therefore her family. Elizabeth Tilley, 1607-1686. She married John Howland, 1602-1672. She is a direct ancestor of mine in my newly discovered maternal grandfather's branch. Grandfather by DNA only. My grandmother had to marry someone else before my mother was born. This E. Tilley line comes via a Fargo connection.

I'm not trying to join some club or society. I'm just building my maternal DNA grandfather's branch. Actually, I have been looking for a couple of other names to connect to, but have bumped into unexpected notable surnames, such as Webster yesterday.

rms2
01-30-2021, 02:15 AM
I probably wouldn't consider joining either if I didn't have relatives who had already done it and therefore made it fairly easy for me.

I wouldn't want to blaze the trail and have to do all the heavy genealogical lifting myself.

Dewsloth
01-30-2021, 03:28 AM
I probably wouldn't consider joining either if I didn't have relatives who had already done it and therefore made it fairly easy for me.

I wouldn't want to blaze the trail and have to do all the heavy genealogical lifting myself.

Thatís why I never completed mine. My line is unique from before the Revolution and they wanted info on all the family members, not just my direct descent. It just looked exhausting. I guess I will have to resubmit an application some day after I retire if I live that long.

msmarjoribanks
01-30-2021, 03:53 AM
Like rms2, my Mayflower lines come from traditional "paper-trail" research, rather than DNA. I would have to echo his last remarks.

There are a small number of folks who have discovered where they are an "umbilical" descendant of a Mayflower passenger (or their spouse) and their mtDNA is useful for other research. The General Society of Mayflower Descendants (GSMD) has begun to accept Y-DNA and mtDNA evidence to link (I believe) a single generation where records are missing.

Yes this. For what it's worth, my dad's matrilineal ancestor is the person we had traced back furthest through paper research (mid 1550s, Suffolk, England, her daughter and granddaughter went to colonial Mass in the early 1630s). Subsequent matches have confirmed that, but also shown lots of matches where the common ancestor is way farther back. I don't think mtDNA alone would work, or even Y-DNA, absent more, but I think reasonably it would be a factor.

Baltimore1937
01-30-2021, 10:28 PM
The book: "Albion's Seed; Four British Folkways in America" has an interesting section: "East Anglia to Massachusetts". Most of the Great Migration people came from the East Anglia region.

lana6765
02-03-2021, 10:00 PM
The book: "Albion's Seed; Four British Folkways in America" has an interesting section: "East Anglia to Massachusetts". Most of the Great Migration people came from the East Anglia region.

I suppose, as someone with East Anglian and West Irish ancestry, I'm particularly related to many Americans.

Most of my American matches have Irish ancestry. I think their ancestors must have migrated during or after the famine.