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Kaspias
08-31-2018, 06:26 PM
What do you think about it? Morleydna shows Q-L54 (i don't have M3 Amerindian SNP, so probably my subclade L330 but not sure.) i don't have enough knowledge about it.

My paternal side from Bulgaria, all comments will welcome.

Ebizur
08-31-2018, 07:18 PM
Have you received a negative result for L804 or any phylogenetically equivalent Y-SNP?

Q-L804 is a subclade of Q-L54 that has been found mostly among modern Germanic peoples. Its estimated TMRCA is not very ancient: only 3,200 [95% CI 2,600 <-> 3,800] ybp according to the YFull Haplogroup YTree v6.04.119, so it is most likely even younger than the famously bottlenecked I1-M253 (TMRCA 4,600 [95% CI 4,100 <-> 5,000] ybp), which is another haplogroup noted for its presence among Germanic peoples.

According to the YFull tree, Q-L804 is the nearest outgroup to indigenous American Q-M3, being even more closely related to Q-M3 than either Q-L804 or Q-M3 is related to the Y-DNA of the Anzick-1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anzick-1) specimen discovered in the state of Montana and associated with the archaeological Clovis culture.

Kaspias
08-31-2018, 07:40 PM
I can't share links or images because i don't have enough post, but you can check this. Please delete blanks.

h t t p s : / /cdn.pbrd. c o/images/HBLkZDe . p n g

I only get negative result for M3. I get positive result for L54, other subclades still uncertain. But i thought my subclade is L330 because i have about 8% Siberia in Gedmatch. Possibly tatar roots, eh i don't know..

Ebizur
08-31-2018, 08:55 PM
I can't share links or images because i don't have enough post, but you can check this. Please delete blanks.

h t t p s : / /cdn.pbrd. c o/images/HBLkZDe . p n g

I only get negative result for M3. I get positive result for L54, other subclades still uncertain. But i thought my subclade is L330 because i have about 8% Siberia in Gedmatch. Possibly tatar roots, eh i don't know..According to the image to which you have linked and what you have written in your posts in this thread, it appears that you belong to Q-L54(xM3), but there is no data that would allow one to distinguish whether your Y-DNA belongs to Q-L804 or to Q-L330.

Considering your known paternal ancestry from Bulgaria, I do think that Q-L330 is more likely in your case, but it might be interesting to test L804 and L330 or at least one SNP equivalent to each of those.

Q-L330 is currently common among indigenous peoples in western Siberia (Ket, Selkup, Enets, Siberian Tatar, Khanty, etc.), but it seems to be found with varying frequency among people all over the Eurasian steppe and immediately neighboring areas, including western/northern Mongolia, southern Altai, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, western Russia, and Hungary.

Kaspias
08-31-2018, 09:22 PM
According to the image to which you have linked and what you have written in your posts in this thread, it appears that you belong to Q-L54(xM3), but there is no data that would allow one to distinguish whether your Y-DNA belongs to Q-L804 or to Q-L330.

Considering your known paternal ancestry from Bulgaria, I do think that Q-L330 is more likely in your case, but it might be interesting to test L804 and L330 or at least one SNP equivalent to each of those.

Q-L330 is currently common among indigenous peoples in western Siberia (Ket, Selkup, Enets, Siberian Tatar, Khanty, etc.), but it seems to be found with varying frequency among people all over the Eurasian steppe and immediately neighboring areas, including western/northern Mongolia, southern Altai, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, western Russia, and Hungary.

Thank you! So, i have only 2 option right? L330 or L804. Is there any other chance to get another subclade?

Ebizur
09-01-2018, 03:53 AM
So, i have only 2 option right? L330 or L804. Is there any other chance to get another subclade?On the grounds of the data that you have shared with the forum, one cannot deny the possibility that you might belong to Q-Z780 or a heretofore unattested (at least on the YFull tree) subclade of Q-L54(xM3), but the probability of that is quite low. You most likely belong either to Q-L330 (this is the most likely in my opinion, and would point toward Siberia at some time less than 9,000 years before present for your deep patrilineal ancestry) or to Q-L804 (this would point toward patrilineal ancestry most likely somewhere in Northern Europe at some time less than 3,800 years before present). Either way, if you test both L330 and L804 (or at least one SNP equivalent to each of those SNPs), then you should be able to determine whether you belong to Q-L330, Q-L804, or Q-L54(xL330, L804, M3).

Afshar
09-01-2018, 04:32 AM
Are you ethnic Turk Bulgarian or just Bulgarian, and which region are you from?

Kaspias
09-01-2018, 09:40 AM
On the grounds of the data that you have shared with the forum, one cannot deny the possibility that you might belong to Q-Z780 or a heretofore unattested (at least on the YFull tree) subclade of Q-L54(xM3), but the probability of that is quite low. You most likely belong either to Q-L330 (this is the most likely in my opinion, and would point toward Siberia at some time less than 9,000 years before present for your deep patrilineal ancestry) or to Q-L804 (this would point toward patrilineal ancestry most likely somewhere in Northern Europe at some time less than 3,800 years before present). Either way, if you test both L330 and L804 (or at least one SNP equivalent to each of those SNPs), then you should be able to determine whether you belong to Q-L330, Q-L804, or Q-L54(xL330, L804, M3).

How can i test that SNP? I think that is not possible without take a FTDNA Y-Test. Also thank you for information!



Are you ethnic Turk Bulgarian or just Bulgarian, and which region are you from?

I'm ethnic Pomak. All of my ancestors were living on Rhodope Mountains and Smolyan. But my paternal side came from Northern Bulgaria, Dobrich. I'm not sure about his ethnicity, he passed away 15 years ago. As i said i suspected from Tatar roots.

MacUalraig
09-01-2018, 10:29 AM
How can i test that SNP? I think that is not possible without take a FTDNA Y-Test. Also thank you for information!



YSEQ have a Q orientation panel as well as L53 (inc L54) panel

https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=46027

https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=45473

Any SNP on one of the panels can also be ordered on its own for USD18 (much cheaper than ftdna).

Afshar
09-01-2018, 03:19 PM
How can i test that SNP? I think that is not possible without take a FTDNA Y-Test. Also thank you for information!




I'm ethnic Pomak. All of my ancestors were living on Rhodope Mountains and Smolyan. But my paternal side came from Northern Bulgaria, Dobrich. I'm not sure about his ethnicity, he passed away 15 years ago. As i said i suspected from Tatar roots.

Q among ethnic Bulgarians is low and seems to be concentrated in some regions. If you are not willing to spend a lot of money I would also recommend Yseq, which is much faster and cheaper than ftdna.

Kaspias
09-01-2018, 06:14 PM
YSEQ have a Q orientation panel as well as L53 (inc L54) panel


Any SNP on one of the panels can also be ordered on its own for USD18 (much cheaper than ftdna).

Thank you!


Q among ethnic Bulgarians is low and seems to be concentrated in some regions. If you are not willing to spend a lot of money I would also recommend Yseq, which is much faster and cheaper than ftdna.


Thanks! Do you know how common Q haplogroup among Balkan Turks who migrated from Anatolia, and Dobruja Tatars?

Afshar
09-02-2018, 02:09 AM
Thank you!




Thanks! Do you know how common Q haplogroup among Balkan Turks who migrated from Anatolia, and Dobruja Tatars?

Q in bulgaria is mainly in lovech, montana amd plovdiv, which is only from a single paper. Tatars in general dont have this clade in high numbers, and balkan Turks also. If you have funds itmight be nice to do some STR testing at ftdna.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0056779
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0056779.g002

Kaspias
09-02-2018, 09:39 AM
Q in bulgaria is mainly in lovech, montana amd plovdiv, which is only from a single paper. Tatars in general dont have this clade in high numbers, and balkan Turks also. If you have funds itmight be nice to do some STR testing at ftdna.


Plovdiv(Smolyan) and Lovech are homelands of Pomaks, i'm like wow now. Montana is where most of Shops(Pechenek descendants) live. And my maternal side's surname is Shop. I'm trying to figure out what is going on now lol. But seems like their clade is different, i mean not L330. Right?

Ebizur
09-02-2018, 11:56 AM
Plovdiv(Smolyan) and Lovech are homelands of Pomaks, i'm like wow now. Montana is where most of Shops(Pechenek descendants) live. And my maternal side's surname is Shop. I'm trying to figure out what is going on now lol. But seems like their clade is different, i mean not L330. Right?
Bulgarian Q (according to Karachanak et al. 2013)
0/45 Burgas
0/15 Varna
1/62 = 1.6% Q-M378 Lovech
1/80 = 1.3% Q-M378 Montana
1/159 = 0.6% Q-M346 Plovdiv
0/21 Razgrad
0/59 Sofia City
1/257 = 0.4% Q-M25 Sofia Province
0/41 Haskovo
0/69 Unspecified

Q2a1-M378 is a clade that subsumes the following subclades according to ISOGG (https://isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpQ.html):

FGC1917 Poland, Italy, Ukraine, n. e. Europe (including Ashkenazi Jews), China (Karaites)
YP745 Morocco, Jordan, Iraq, Turkey (Armenians, Assyrians), Switzerland, Russia, Russia (Avars),
China (Ughurs), India
BZ310 Iran, Azerbaijan
BZ3896 Italy, Armenia
FGC4607 Portugal, Kazakhstan, India, Pakistan (Punjabis), Iran (Arabs), Georgian Abkhazia

Compared to Q1b1a-L54, to which you appear to belong, Q1a2-M25 is more closely related to Q1a1-F746/NWT01, one subclade of which, Q1a1a-M120, has been found mainly among East/Southeast Asians (especially Han Chinese, southern Vietnamese, some Tibeto-Burman tribes, and some tribes inhabiting the island of Borneo). Q1a1-NWT01(xM120) has been found mainly among Eskimos in the arctic zones of Alaska and northwestern Canada, but also among Koryaks (a Chukotkan-speaking ethnic group that inhabits the isthmus of the Kamchatka Peninsula and its vicinity) and Tłįchǫ (an Athabaskan-speaking ethnic group that inhabits parts of the Northwest Territories, Canada). It also has been found in an ancient specimen associated with the Paleo-Eskimo Saqqaq culture in Greenland.

The only Bulgarian in the data set of Karachanak et al. 2013 who may belong to Q1b1a-L54 like you is the Q1b-M346 individual in the sample from Plovdiv. However, haplogroup Q1b-M346 is very diverse and widespread, so one cannot guarantee that this individual from Plovdiv would share your subclade.

Kaspias
09-02-2018, 10:17 PM
.

Thank you again! I get it now, seems like my case is very strange and interesting.