View Full Version : Where did R1b-PH200 originate?

09-02-2018, 01:26 PM
Oldest PH200 seem to be Xiongnu remains from Mongolia and Kyrgyzstan

Joe B
09-03-2018, 03:58 PM
Welcome to Anthrogenica PH200.
The R1b-PH155 haplogroup that includes the PH200 clade is one of the rarest of the subclades under R1b-M343.
Your R1b-PH200 subclade only has about a half dozen tested samples. Geographically the range is quite large for modern samples. Uygar in China, Bhutan, Bahrain, Turkey, Armenia and Tajikistan. The two ancient samples that you cited are interesting clues that I wasn't aware of. They certainly make sense in context of the modern samples. My guess is that the PH200 mutation occurred towards the close of the Neolithic after an estimated 13000 year bottleneck at the PH155 level somewhere along the Steppe Route.
How where you tested for PH200? Want to make sure that your valuable information is included in building the R1b-PH200 phylogenetic haplotree.

09-05-2018, 11:40 AM
Hi. Thanks.

Just got my PH200 results. I am negative for that. I am also negative for M335. Seems like i am negative for all known subclades of PH155.

Does this make me basal R-PH155*?

Not sure how that is possible. Wikipedia says PH155* is extinct.

Did my tests at YSEQ.

What should i do now to uncover further subclades of PH155?

Thanks again.

Joe B
09-05-2018, 06:49 PM
I started laughing when I read Wikipedia.

R-PH155 (R1b1b). The basal form R-PH155* appears to be extinct. Subclades have been found in individuals from Bahrain, Bhutan, Ladakh, Tajikistan, Turkey, Xinjiang, and Yunnan.
R1b-PH155* simply means that a sample has tested negative for all known downstream clades. It's almost archaic to use an asterisk anymore in light of the new testing technologies that are able to discover unknown subclades.
It's rather exciting that you have tested negative for both PH200 and M335. Please join YSeq group 156 R1b (xL23) so we know where your results are. https://www.yseq.net/group_alleles.php?gid=156
If you have tested at FTDNA please join the R1b Basal Subclades project.https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-1b-basal-subclades/about
The next step for you is NGS or next generation sequencing testing. Basically we want to map your Y DNA mutations from Y chromosome Adam to the present. The PH155 level has about 80 SNPs. Your Y DNA line will probably bust that block of SNPs. It's just not practical to test SNPs one at a time. https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-PH155/
YSeq, FTDNA and Full Genomes are some of the companies that offer NGS testing. Each has unique advantages.

09-07-2018, 01:53 PM
Thank you for replying Joe,

Yes I was testing each subclade individually after I learnt that I am R1b1b. I am now saving money for FTDNA Big Y test.

I joined the group at YSEQ.

One question: should I take the Big Y test or Next Gen Seq at this moment?

Thanks again.

Joe B
09-07-2018, 04:10 PM
Big Y is one of the NGS products. All the NGS tests are pretty good. It's more of a matter of you pay a little more and you get a little more raw data. What's critical is getting good analysis of the raw data so that we can build the phylogenetic haplotree. One of the things we're trying to avoid is having an ancient sample assigned to an extinct Y DNA branch when it's just a matter of that line hasn't been tested in the living sample yet. That usually means getting on the ISOGG and YFull haplotrees. Thanks for your enthusiasm. That's how things get done.

Joe B
09-07-2018, 04:20 PM
Plesse delete post and move thread to Forum: R1b Early Subclades. https://anthrogenica.com/forumdisplay.php?51-R1b-Early-Subclades