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Saad2016
09-16-2018, 01:13 AM
Haplogroup H with subclaude O-Z34492

My question : Why is O branching out of H? Shouldn't this be H-Z34492?


https://i.gyazo.com/3d3391fcb842bf64f7b117ad1634eb47.png

ArmandoR1b
09-16-2018, 01:32 AM
Haplogroup H with subclaude O-Z34492

My question : Why is O branching out of H? Shouldn't this be H-Z34492?



Yes it should be H-Z34492. Someone at Living DNA messed up big time.

https://isogg.org/tree/2017/ISOGG_HapgrpH17.html

https://www.yfull.com/tree/H-Z34492/

Saad2016
09-16-2018, 01:35 AM
Yes it should be H-Z34492. Someone at Living DNA messed up big time.

https://isogg.org/tree/2017/ISOGG_HapgrpH17.html

https://www.yfull.com/tree/H-Z34492/

That's what I thought too. Will contact them to make the correction.

Jatt1
09-16-2018, 06:39 AM
That's what I thought too. Will contact them to make the correction.

What community/ethnic group you belong to?

Saad2016
09-16-2018, 02:28 PM
What community/ethnic group you belong to?

Pakistani Punjabi.

Sapporo
09-16-2018, 05:31 PM
Pakistani Punjabi.

What specific biradari though? Like Pahari Rajput or Central Punjab Jatt? Mixed?

Also, where are your mt-DNA and admixture (family ancestry) results?

Saad2016
09-16-2018, 05:59 PM
What specific biradari though? Like Pahari Rajput or Central Punjab Jatt? Mixed?

Also, where are your mt-DNA and admixture (family ancestry) results?

Mixed Punjabi. Half Rajput Half Jatt.

Jatt1
09-16-2018, 06:34 PM
Mixed Punjabi. Half Rajput Half Jatt.

You are Haplogroup H, is your paternal line from Kalash, Gujjar, or Burusho etc.?

Saad2016
09-16-2018, 06:39 PM
You are Haplogroup H, is your paternal line from Kalash, Gujjar, or Burusho etc.?

H-Z34492 is from Paternal Side Jatt. Living DNA has to correct my terminal SNP. They made a typo to my Terminal. Very good indepth Paternal Assignment. Reaches to the end of currently explored SNP. Living DNA has good resolution of SNPs when it comes to Y-DNA.

Saad2016
09-16-2018, 06:54 PM
You are Haplogroup H, is your paternal line from Kalash, Gujjar, or Burusho etc.?

where are u from and what Y DNA?

Jatt1
09-16-2018, 07:16 PM
where are u from and what Y DNA?

I apologize, looks like my question hurt you little too much, that definitely was not my intention at all.

ssamlal
09-16-2018, 08:08 PM
Haplogroup H with subclaude O-Z34492

My question : Why is O branching out of H? Shouldn't this be H-Z34492?



There have been some changes to the H tree downstream of H-Z14308 (on YFull and FTDNA). I was initially assigned H-Z34739* on YFull and then reassigned to a new subclade H-Y61050. The other individual that was reassigned to H-Y61050 is a Punjabi Hindu (I'm Hindu but not Punjabi). Itís possible your terminal is truly H-Z34492 but who knows it could end up being H-Y61050.



Haplogroup YTree v6.01.00 at 04 January 2018
Haplogroup YTree v6.02.65 at 16 July 2018


25982
25983

aaronbee2010
09-16-2018, 08:19 PM
where are u from and what Y DNA?

I apologize, looks like my question hurt you little too much, that definitely was not intention at all.

I don't think he was offended at all, he just asked you a question as well :P

Saad2016
09-16-2018, 09:32 PM
I don't think he was offended at all, he just asked you a question as well :P

so true, I did not understand his response or what triggered it. Did the same in another thread that I started. Most probably some angry troll.

Saad2016
09-16-2018, 09:34 PM
There have been some changes to the H tree downstream of H-Z14308 (on YFull and FTDNA). I was initially assigned H-Z34739* on YFull and then reassigned to a new subclade H-Y61050. The other individual that was reassigned to H-Y61050 is a Punjabi Hindu (I'm Hindu but not Punjabi). It’s possible your terminal is truly H-Z34492 but who knows it could end up being H-Y61050.



Haplogroup YTree v6.01.00 at 04 January 2018
Haplogroup YTree v6.02.65 at 16 July 2018


25982
25983



it is very good to see that the H tree is expanding now and more SNPs are placed in the tree.

Sapporo
09-17-2018, 03:34 AM
Mixed Punjabi. Half Rajput Half Jatt.

Interesting. Are both sides from Majha speaking areas or mixed as well? Is the Jatt side a clan that overlaps with Jatt Sikhs? Like Cheema, Bajwa, Warraich, etc?

khanabadoshi
09-17-2018, 04:42 AM
so true, I did not understand his response or what triggered it. Did the same in another thread that I started. Most probably some angry troll.

You replied to his question in the post before your question, but quoted him in both posts:

https://anthrogenica.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Jatt1 https://anthrogenica.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?p=490083#post490083)

You are Haplogroup H, is your paternal line from Kalash, Gujjar, or Burusho etc.?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

H-Z34492 is from Paternal Side Jatt. Living DNA has to correct my terminal SNP. They made a typo to my Terminal. Very good indepth Paternal Assignment. Reaches to the end of currently explored SNP. Living DNA has good resolution of SNPs when it comes to Y-DNA.

He probably just saw your next quote and not the first:

https://anthrogenica.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Jatt1 https://anthrogenica.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?p=490083#post490083)
You are Haplogroup H, is your paternal line from Kalash, Gujjar, or Burusho etc.?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

where are u from and what Y DNA?


Which could be read in a defensive tone if he didn't see that you already answered him. ie. Q. "Hey, where are you from"? A. "Where are you from?!"

Conclusion: Misunderstanding.

PS: I was confused too -- I was thinking, do I need to mod something here? So I read through just to make sure all is well.

Saad2016
09-17-2018, 10:28 AM
You replied to his question in the post before your question, but quoted him in both posts:

https://anthrogenica.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Jatt1 https://anthrogenica.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?p=490083#post490083)

You are Haplogroup H, is your paternal line from Kalash, Gujjar, or Burusho etc.?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

H-Z34492 is from Paternal Side Jatt. Living DNA has to correct my terminal SNP. They made a typo to my Terminal. Very good indepth Paternal Assignment. Reaches to the end of currently explored SNP. Living DNA has good resolution of SNPs when it comes to Y-DNA.

He probably just saw your next quote and not the first:

https://anthrogenica.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Jatt1 https://anthrogenica.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?p=490083#post490083)
You are Haplogroup H, is your paternal line from Kalash, Gujjar, or Burusho etc.?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

where are u from and what Y DNA?


Which could be read in a defensive tone if he didn't see that you already answered him. ie. Q. "Hey, where are you from"? A. "Where are you from?!"

Conclusion: Misunderstanding.

PS: I was confused too -- I was thinking, do I need to mod something here? So I read through just to make sure all is well.

very possible but he showed the same type of attitude in another of my started thread and got personal instead of focusing on my thread theme.

Saad2016
09-17-2018, 10:31 AM
Interesting. Are both sides from Majha speaking areas or mixed as well? Is the Jatt side a clan that overlaps with Jatt Sikhs? Like Cheema, Bajwa, Warraich, etc?

Yes, same overlapping exists between indian and Pakistani Punjab caste systems. As for the dialect , I am not sure but may be it is mahja.

Sapporo
09-17-2018, 04:58 PM
Yes, same overlapping exists between indian and Pakistani Punjab caste systems. As for the dialect , I am not sure but may be it is mahja.

So, it's not Pahari Jatt like Gondal, Langrial, Kalyal, Pakhreel, Nagyal, etc right? Those are not found among Sikhs and the latter 3-4 can even be Rajput in Pakistan I believe.

Saad2016
09-17-2018, 06:23 PM
So, it's not Pahari Jatt like Gondal, Langrial, Kalyal, Pakhreel, Nagyal, etc right? Those are not found among Sikhs and the latter 3-4 can even be Rajput in Pakistan I believe.

Very right not from the Paharies but very Sikh in background. Great Great Great Grandfather was a Sikh.

bol_nat
09-17-2018, 06:44 PM
Very right not from the Paharies but very Sikh in background. Great Great Great Grandfather was a Sikh.

I remember you scored NE euro of about 11-12% despite being from Kharian. Sidhus originated in malwa region of east punjab, that's probably from where relatively high NE euro came from in your case. Also don't take pahari term on anthrogenica seriously, for exemple gondals are not paharis. They are not even found in Azad Kashmir, if they are then not much.

Saad2016
09-17-2018, 06:58 PM
I remember you scored NE euro of about 11-12% despite being from Kharian. Sidhus originated in malwa region of east punjab, that's probably from where relatively high NE euro came from in your case. Also don't take pahari term on anthrogenica seriously, for exemple gondals are not paharis. They are not even found in Azad Kashmir, if they are then not much.

appreciate your research and input. However, it is not certain as to where they originated from. Malwa and Nabha were two princely states that they ruled/occupied after the fall of Moghul empire. Theories about origin may differ from source to source.
HIstory of Sidhu and Brar Clan Origin and history



Sidhus and Brars had five principalities of their own in the Malwa region of the Punjab prior to the Partition. These were Patiala, Nabha, Jind, Kaithal and Faridkot. After the Partition, Patiala, Nabha, Jind and Faridkot, along with three other princely states (Kapurthala, Malerkotla and Kalsia) formed the short-lived Patiala and East Punjab States Union (PEPSU), with the Maharja of Patiala, Yadavindrah Singh as the Rajpramukh and the capital at the city of Patiala. PEPSU was later incorporated into the new state of Punjab, from which Himachal Pradesh and Haryana were later separated due to the reorganization of Indian states on a linguistic basis.

Sidhus are the descendants of Bhatti Rajputs[1]. They claim Yaduvanshi descent. At one time, the Bhattis ruled over the lands of Northern India, Pakistan and Afghanistan, from Mathura to Ghazni. Ghazni and Lahore were seized by the king of Bukhara (in today's Uzbekistan) after a long period. The Bhattis migrated and settled in the area of Bhatner (Hanumangarh in present-day northern Rajasthan).

Source : http://robbiebrar.typepad.com/blog/2007/06/history-of-sidhu-brar-clan.html

bol_nat
09-17-2018, 07:18 PM
appreciate your research and input. However, it is not certain as to where they originated from. Malwa and Nabha were two princely states that they ruled/occupied after the fall of Moghul empire. Theories about origin may differ from source to source.
HIstory of Sidhu and Brar Clan Origin and history




Sidhus are the descendants of Bhatti Rajputs[1]. They claim Yaduvanshi descent. At one time, the Bhattis ruled over the lands of Northern India, Pakistan and Afghanistan, from Mathura to Ghazni. Ghazni and Lahore were seized by the king of Bukhara (in today's Uzbekistan) after a long period. The Bhattis migrated and settled in the area of Bhatner (Hanumangarh in present-day northern Rajasthan).

Source : http://robbiebrar.typepad.com/blog/2007/06/history-of-sidhu-brar-clan.html

This ghazni or what myths shouldn't be taken seriously. See where certain clan population dominated in numbers in old census. That's where they originated more or less.

Saad2016
09-17-2018, 07:22 PM
This ghazni or what myths shouldn't be taken seriously. See where certain clan population dominated in numbers in old census. That's where they originated more or less.

As I said, that 101 different theories will exist about the past ( the origin). Currently, Sidhu are the largest Muslim Jat clan in the Punjab. According to the only caste based 1911 Census of India, one-third of the Sidhu were Muslim and rest were Sikh. They were found throughout central Punjab, stretching from Sargodha and Gujrat in the west to Karnal in the east. Lahore was and remains a stronghold of the tribe. In addition to Lahore, they are found in Kasur, Okara, Vehari, Sahiwal, Faisalabad, Jhang, Sargodha, Gujrat, Sialkot, Gujranwala, Mandi Bahauddin and Narowal district. They are also found in Sanghar District of Sindh.

Assuming that all of them originated from Malwa , statistically does not sound very correct. The Sidhu population of Gujrat and Kharian is very ancient been there forever with no recent history of migration from Malwa.

Source : https://newpakhistorian.wordpress.com/tag/jatt-in-pakistan/

Sapporo
09-17-2018, 07:23 PM
I remember you scored NE euro of about 11-12% despite being from Kharian. Sidhus originated in malwa region of east punjab, that's probably from where relatively high NE euro came from in your case. Also don't take pahari term on anthrogenica seriously, for exemple gondals are not paharis. They are not even found in Azad Kashmir, if they are then not much.

Gondals are from Gujrat no? Gujrat is 30 miles from Bhimber (and quite distant from Lahore or Amritsar which are seen as the heart of Central Punjab), which is Pahari speaking according to my friend from there who identifies as Pahari Rajput. It's also a stones throw from Jammu City in Jammu. Lastly, it's Dr_McNinja's relative who is HRP402 (Gondal) and he labeled him a Pahari Jatt. I can't speak for Pakistani Punjab but Jatt Sikhs don't see areas north or west of Sialkot as Central Punjab. Even Sialkot would be seen as a periphery area between Pahari and Majha (defined by Lahore and Amritsar)

@Saad

Do you mind posting your Harappa or other GEDMatch results? Obviously, your Rajput ancestry is going to influence your results but I'm rather curious. Also, I'm not sure if I'd trust that site. It's not a peer reviewed source. Anyways, Sidhu is one of the 2 largest Jatt Sikh clans and most Sidhus I've met are from Malwa. Though, they can be found in Majha and Doab.

bol_nat
09-17-2018, 07:42 PM
Gondals are from Gujrat no? Gujrat is 30 miles from Bhimber (and quite distant from Lahore or Amritsar which are seen as the heart of Central Punjab), which is Pahari speaking according to my friend from there who identifies as Pahari Rajput. Also, it's Dr_McNinja's relative who is HRP402 (Gondal) and he labeled him a Pahari Jatt. I can't speak for Pakistani Punjab but Jatt Sikhs don't see areas north or west of Sialkot as Central Punjab. Even Sialkot would be seen as a periphery area between Pahari and Majha (defined by Lahore and Amritsar)

Majority of gondals are found in mandi bahaudin which is south of Gujrat, as you go east, west, north and south of that their numbers decreases but they are found in all neighbour districts of Mandi bahaudin. But since Bhimber is further north of Gujrat, I doubt there are many there.

Gujrat language is similar to one spoken in Gujranwala and Sialkot. You can say its bit different then one spoken in Amristar. Mcninja labeled him pahari jatt not because of language but genetic profile being similar to jatt samples from Azad Kashmir. This area is considered part of central punjab in Pakistan. You are probably going by British raj definition, when central punjab was considered modern Indian punjab. But districts starting from Lahore were considered west punjab.

Saad2016
09-17-2018, 07:42 PM
Gondals are from Gujrat no? Gujrat is 30 miles from Bhimber (and quite distant from Lahore or Amritsar which are seen as the heart of Central Punjab), which is Pahari speaking according to my friend from there who identifies as Pahari Rajput. It's also a stones throw from Jammu City in Jammu. Lastly, it's Dr_McNinja's relative who is HRP402 (Gondal) and he labeled him a Pahari Jatt. I can't speak for Pakistani Punjab but Jatt Sikhs don't see areas north or west of Sialkot as Central Punjab. Even Sialkot would be seen as a periphery area between Pahari and Majha (defined by Lahore and Amritsar)

@Saad

Do you mind posting your Harappa or other GEDMatch results? Obviously, your Amritsar Rajput ancestry is going to influence your results but I'm rather curious.

You are very right that these regions cannot be called central Punjab if u consider Pakistan and Indian Punjab as one single entity. I would say these areas are North Eastern Punjab ( Sialkot,Gujrat Kharian etc) and all areas west of River Jhelum as western Plateau Punjab ( some forum members call it pahari Punjab). and if you go South from Lahore onwards ( central Punjab) and then Bahawalpur/Multan area as Southern Punjab.

Saad2016
09-17-2018, 07:42 PM
Gondals are from Gujrat no? Gujrat is 30 miles from Bhimber (and quite distant from Lahore or Amritsar which are seen as the heart of Central Punjab), which is Pahari speaking according to my friend from there who identifies as Pahari Rajput. It's also a stones throw from Jammu City in Jammu. Lastly, it's Dr_McNinja's relative who is HRP402 (Gondal) and he labeled him a Pahari Jatt. I can't speak for Pakistani Punjab but Jatt Sikhs don't see areas north or west of Sialkot as Central Punjab. Even Sialkot would be seen as a periphery area between Pahari and Majha (defined by Lahore and Amritsar)

@Saad

Do you mind posting your Harappa or other GEDMatch results? Obviously, your Amritsar Rajput ancestry is going to influence your results but I'm rather curious.

Sorry duplicated the reply. I will post my Harrapa result soon.

Sapporo
09-17-2018, 07:50 PM
Majority of gondals are found in mandi bahaudin which is south of Gujrat, as you go east, west, north and south of that their numbers decreases but they are found in all neighbour districts of Mandi bahaudin. But since Bhimber is further north of Gujrat, I doubt there are many there.

Gujrat language is similar to one spoken in Gujranwala and Sialkot. You can say its bit different then one spoken in Amristar. Mcninja labeled him pahari jatt not because of language but genetic profile. This area is considered part of central punjab in Pakistan. You are probably going by British raj definition, when central punjab was considered modern Indian punjab. But districts starting from Lahore were considered west punjab.

Okay, thank you for that bit of information. So, there are no Gondals in pure Pahari/Potwari speaking areas? I think McNinja's labeling of him is two fold. Gondal seems to be an exclusive Muslim Jatt clan and they are from areas northwest of what is generally defined as the heart of Central Punjab (Lahore and Amritsar) when it was whole. Yes, I'm probably using the British Raj definition since often Indian Punjab (East Punjab) is defined as "Central Punjab" but I'm including bordering areas of West Punjab such as Lahore, Kasur, Okara and Sheikhupura. Though, I'd argue areas as far as west as Faisalabad have a Central strong Punjab cultural influence due to migrants from East Punjab.


You are very right that these regions cannot be called central Punjab if u consider Pakistan and Indian Punjab as one single entity. I would say these areas are North Eastern Punjab ( Sialkot,Gujrat Kharian etc) and all areas west of River Jhelum as western Plateau Punjab ( some forum members call it pahari Punjab). and if you go South from Lahore onwards ( central Punjab) and then Bahawalpur/Multan area as Southern Punjab.

I think that was the issue from my perspective. Pakistani West Punjab and Indian East Punjab are from two separate countries today but I was defining regions based on the concept of Punjab being a single entity. Many parts of Northeast Punjab as you noted are being called Pahari Punjab by myself and a few others since these regions are peripheral to AJK and the Pothohar Plateau.

Saad2016
09-17-2018, 07:56 PM
A common misconception amongst Pakistanies is that since we share similar castes with our Indian counter parts mean that we migrated from India. This is not true, the areas I have mentioned have indigenous Jatt population spread all the way to the west till Jhelum, Chakwal and Sargodha. Evidence of local Jatt population in Mardan ( Khyber PaktunKhawa) is also there who were forced to migrate to Indian Punjab by the Local Paktun Muslims ( 1947 carnage). Jatt tribes are still there in province of Balochistan who claim to be indigenous there as well.

To recap : Muslim Jatts and Sikh Jatts have common ancestry and they once roamed and occupied like 90 percent of not only Punjab but also neighbouring provinces.

bol_nat
09-17-2018, 08:41 PM
A common misconception amongst Pakistanies is that since we share similar castes with our Indian counter parts mean that we migrated from India. This is not true, the areas I have mentioned have indigenous Jatt population spread all the way to the west till Jhelum, Chakwal and Sargodha. Evidence of local Jatt population in Mardan ( Khyber PaktunKhawa) is also there who were forced to migrate to Indian Punjab by the Local Paktun Muslims ( 1947 carnage). Jatt tribes are still there in province of Balochistan who claim to be indigenous there as well.

To recap : Muslim Jatts and Sikh Jatts have common ancestry and they once roamed and occupied like 90 percent of not only Punjab but also neighbouring provinces.

If you read British report then you will find that jats in NWFP if sikhs then they were soldiers stationed there, migrated from punjab. The muslim "jats" of NWFP were chuhras that started to identify as jats. Its all in old census reports when British used to do caste based census.

Sapporo
09-17-2018, 08:45 PM
A common misconception amongst Pakistanies is that since we share similar castes with our Indian counter parts mean that we migrated from India. This is not true, the areas I have mentioned have indigenous Jatt population spread all the way to the west till Jhelum, Chakwal and Sargodha. Evidence of local Jatt population in Mardan ( Khyber PaktunKhawa) is also there who were forced to migrate to Indian Punjab by the Local Paktun Muslims ( 1947 carnage). Jatt tribes are still there in province of Balochistan who claim to be indigenous there as well.

To recap : Muslim Jatts and Sikh Jatts have common ancestry and they once roamed and occupied like 90 percent of not only Punjab but also neighbouring provinces.

I can agree on this. It's certainly true that many biradaris did migrate during partition and there was population movements during the reign of Ranjit Singh but that doesn't mean most biardaris and in this case Jatts specifically weren't already settled in their respective regions. Some Sikh Warraich or Virk may have migrated during partition to East Punjab but many Warraich and Virk were already settled there including both my paternal great grandmother's family (Virk) and maternal grandmothers' family (Warraich). This would apply to Muslim Sidhu's as well. Not all are migrants from Malwa or Doab. However, I do know that my paternal grandfather's clan had many Muslims migrate to Faisalabad though as their de facto headquarters was Ludhiana and they are rarely found outside that region even in modern Indian (East) Punjab. Though, supposedly some of them (including Sikh ones) were already settled in Faisalabad before partition.

bol_nat
09-17-2018, 08:54 PM
I can agree on this. It's true that certain that many biradaris did migrate during partition and there was population movements during the reign of Ranjit Singh but that doesn't mean most biardaris and this case Jatts weren't already settled in their respective regions. Some Sikh Warraich or Virk may have migrated during partition to East Punjab but many Warraich and Virk were already settled there including both my paternal great grandmother's family (Virk) and maternal grandmothers' family (Warraich). This would apply to Muslim Sidhu's as well. Not all are migrants from Malwa or Doab. I do know that my paternal grandfather's clan had many Muslims migrate to Faisalabad though as their de facto headquarters was Ludhiana and they are rarely found outside that region even in East Punjab.

We are talking centuries back though, well before partition. I don't think these jat clans that tend to be numerous all originated in different regions independently while using same name. There was some migration of clans with in greater punjab. Like there is chatha village in Islamabad, they migrated from Gujranwala few 2-3 centuries ago.

Like this village in Rawalpindi district

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sui_Cheemian

Also Saad2026 11-12% NE euro also point towards some ancestry from very high ne euro type jatt despite mixing with pahari like jatts with low NE euro.

bored
09-17-2018, 11:45 PM
You can't be a real Pahari if you don't score at least some East Asian IMO.

Saad2016
09-18-2018, 12:00 AM
My Harrapa results :

https://i.gyazo.com/8a1d8f8561b252fadc56eb454f968945.png

https://i.gyazo.com/06557e4f70cb1800c5f2221ed6d4c15b.png

Saad2016
09-18-2018, 12:03 AM
If you read British report then you will find that jats in NWFP if sikhs then they were soldiers stationed there, migrated from punjab. The muslim "jats" of NWFP were chuhras that started to identify as jats. Its all in old census reports when British used to do caste based census.

Perhaps if you start your timeline from British Indian then yes. But who were the inhabitants of this area before the Muslim conquest ( Swat, Mardan and Peshawar Valley), Hindu temples and Buddhist stupas) are dating back Post Alexander Era are there as living proof that the ancient dwellers of these areas were not current day Paktuns. A controversial topic but yet very interesting one. We will save it for the next time.

poi
09-18-2018, 12:06 AM
My Harrapa results :

https://i.gyazo.com/8a1d8f8561b252fadc56eb454f968945.png

https://i.gyazo.com/06557e4f70cb1800c5f2221ed6d4c15b.png

If you want, you can send the kit to me(here or PM)... I'm almost done with the gedmatch comparison tool for South/central Asians. It should be interesting to compare your results.

bored
09-18-2018, 12:07 AM
If you want, you can send the kit to me(here or PM)... I'm almost done with the gedmatch comparison tool for South/central Asians. It should be interesting to compare your results.

do u have my kit?

Saad2016
09-18-2018, 12:29 AM
If you want, you can send the kit to me(here or PM)... I'm almost done with the gedmatch comparison tool for South/central Asians. It should be interesting to compare your results.

Thank u poi for the offer, you have my permission. My Kit number is AG2976037. Please let me know if your results.

Sapporo
09-18-2018, 12:45 AM
You can't be a real Pahari if you don't score at least some East Asian IMO.

Preferably NE Asian as most NW South Asians score a bit of Siberian/American/Beringian.

poi
09-18-2018, 12:49 AM
Thank u poi for the offer, you have my permission. My Kit number is AG2976037. Please let me know if your results.

Thanks! Have you also done your Global25?


do u have my kit?

I don't remember, but wouldn't hurt if you send again. My system doesn't run the calculators if they were already run.

Saad2016
09-18-2018, 12:53 AM
Thanks! Have you also done your Global25?



I don't remember, but wouldn't hurt if you send again. My system doesn't run the calculators if they were already run.

where is Global, I don't see it my dropdown list :

https://i.gyazo.com/1d385bc2ab834369bf59d5fbec86c44e.png

poi
09-18-2018, 01:16 AM
where is Global, I don't see it my dropdown list :

https://i.gyazo.com/1d385bc2ab834369bf59d5fbec86c44e.png

It's a paid PCA based analysis done by Davidski of Eurogenes blog. You need to email him at [email protected] and ask for details... as far as I know, he charges $12 per file and payment is through paypal. It could take 24 hours to get your coordinates. When you have your PCA coordinates, you can either use R + nMonte3 + Global25 datasheet, or add your coordinates in the "Global25 nMonte Runner" tool, which is free for basic usage, from my sig.

bol_nat
09-18-2018, 01:55 AM
Okay, thank you for that bit of information. So, there are no Gondals in pure Pahari/Potwari speaking areas? I think McNinja's labeling of him is two fold. Gondal seems to be an exclusive Muslim Jatt clan and they are from areas northwest of what is generally defined as the heart of Central Punjab (Lahore and Amritsar) when it was whole. Yes, I'm probably using the British Raj definition since often Indian Punjab (East Punjab) is defined as "Central Punjab" but I'm including bordering areas of West Punjab such as Lahore, Kasur, Okara and Sheikhupura. Though, I'd argue areas as far as west as Faisalabad have a Central strong Punjab cultural influence due to migrants from East Punjab. .

Yes gondals are found in potohar, along right side of river jhelum. Looks like your definition of central punjab is between ravi and beas.

If we use same term for Indian punjab then majha will be north punjab, doab is central punjab and malwa is south punjab.
http://www.punjabdata.com/images/Majha-Malwa-Doaba-1.jpg

Yes Faisalabad people still largely speak like Indian punjabis. Those funny dubs in punjabi are done by people from Faisalabad.

bol_nat
09-18-2018, 02:03 AM
My Harrapa results :

https://i.gyazo.com/8a1d8f8561b252fadc56eb454f968945.png

https://i.gyazo.com/06557e4f70cb1800c5f2221ed6d4c15b.png

Did you take another DNA test from different company? The kit you sent me had bit lower caucasian and little higher ne euro. And also higher NE asian.

Sapporo
09-18-2018, 02:09 AM
We are talking centuries back though, well before partition. I don't think these jat clans that tend to be numerous all originated in different regions independently while using same name. There was some migration of clans with in greater punjab. Like there is chatha village in Islamabad, they migrated from Gujranwala few 2-3 centuries ago.

Like this village in Rawalpindi district

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sui_Cheemian

Also Saad2026 11-12% NE euro also point towards some ancestry from very high ne euro type jatt despite mixing with pahari like jatts with low NE euro.


In that sense, I agree. It's likely that certain clans had their origins in specific regions and then migrated and settled throughout the Greater Punjab centuries before partition. So even if Warraich or Virk did originate in West Punjab, they were settled for centuries in various parts of East Punjab.

Saad2016
09-18-2018, 02:11 AM
Did you take another DNA test from different company? The kit you sent me had bit lower caucasian and little higher ne euro. And also higher NE asian.

this is my livingdna kit Gedmatch kit. The other one was 23andme.

MonkeyDLuffy
09-18-2018, 02:36 AM
My Harrapa results :

https://i.gyazo.com/8a1d8f8561b252fadc56eb454f968945.png

https://i.gyazo.com/06557e4f70cb1800c5f2221ed6d4c15b.png

You don't score that far off from me, if we swap your cockasian with ne euro, we're pretty much similar in terms of results.

bol_nat
09-18-2018, 03:28 AM
In that sense, I agree. It's likely that certain clans had their origins in specific regions and then migrated and settled throughout the Greater Punjab centuries before partition. So even if Warraich or Virk did originate in West Punjab, they were settled for centuries in various parts of East Punjab.

yep, there are many typical eastern district jatt clan villages in Rawalpindi. Settled there in 18th century. Thats probably when majority of punjab villages as we know today were made.

like this sandhu village in Pindi district.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohra_Sandhu

though they speak potohari now

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x26xier

Raza94
09-20-2018, 12:07 AM
My Harrapa results :

https://i.gyazo.com/8a1d8f8561b252fadc56eb454f968945.png

https://i.gyazo.com/06557e4f70cb1800c5f2221ed6d4c15b.png

Your results are kinda similar to mine except you have much higher NE Euro and I have a bit higher Caucasian.

Here are mine:
# Population Percent
1 Baloch 37.86
2 S-Indian 34.96
3 Caucasian 13.85
4 NE-Euro 4.37
5 SW-Asian 3.07
6 Siberian 1.99
7 NE-Asian 1.34
8 E-African 1.16