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Wing Genealogist
11-05-2013, 07:18 AM
Humanist posted the following in the 1940 Census thread [my apologies if I am not quoting properly, but I wanted to start a new thread and couldn't figure out how to transfer his quote over here] Rather than hijacking that thread, I wanted to continue this discussion on a new thread.


There have been four great waves of immigration in American history. The first wave came in the colonial period, peaking in the years just preceding the American Revolution. The greatest single source of newcomers to the New World in this first phase was not any European country at all but rather Africa, as the slave trade far outpaced European settlement. European settlers in the colonies that later became the United States included many nationalities—English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish, German, Dutch, Swedish, Spanish, French—but the English predominated, with English immigrants and their descendants comprising 60% of America's white population by the time the first Census was taken in 1790.

The second wave came in the middle decades of the 19th century, after a near-hiatus during the Napoleonic Wars. Most immigrants during the second wave continued to derive from Northwestern Europe, although now large numbers of Irish Catholics began to arrive for the first time, amidst great controversy. The California Gold Rush that began in 1849 brought migrants from around the world, including the first substantial Chinese population in the United States. A strong nativist politics developed during the second wave, culminating in the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882—the first systematic federal legislation to restrict free and open immigration into the country.

The third wave came in the last two decades of the nineteenth century and the first two decades of the twentieth, when millions of so-called "New Immigrants" came to the United States from homes in Southern and Eastern Europe. This influx, mostly comprised of Catholics and Jews, generated a massive nativist backlash, which eventually led to strict limitations on immigration in the 1920s.

The fourth wave began in 1965, when new legislation lifted many of the restrictions imposed in the 1920s, and continues today. Today's immigration is dominated, for the first time since the colonial period, by non-Europeans, with a large majority of immigrants hailing from Latin America or Asia.

Several replies questioned the statement about the single source of newcomers in the first phase was from the slave trade. To me, this statement somehow forgot the FIRST wave of immigration to the New World (and I'm not talking about the Native American or Viking settlement). The first wave was the initial settlement of the New World in the Sixteenth and Seventeenth Centuries. This first wave was primarily from England (although there were Spanish and French settlements as well). The next wave (which is erroneously called the first wave in the source cited by Humanist) is during the later Colonial period, and this wave had a larger number of slaves than Europeans. This would reconcile the discrepancy between the statement the majority of immigrants were slaves with the fact the first census indicated the majority of people in the U.S. were NOT slaves. The first wave of settlers, while numerically may not have been all that large, had several generations to reproduce (and grow geometrically) so by the time of the first census, they still greatly outnumbered the larger contingent of "newcomers" to the land.

Yggdrasil
11-05-2013, 08:50 AM
You should change the heading, because you seem to be talking about North-America only, not the entire New World. The first "wave" of immigration to the New World/the Americas after Colombus would have been by the Spanish wouldn´t you say?

geebee
11-05-2013, 03:41 PM
That is not the only reason for the disparity. Yggdrasil is right to point out that we seem to be focused on North America. The problem is that if we do, we will find that most of the the slaves imported to the New World were not bound for North America. It was not just because white settlers had "had several generations to reproduce" that they so outnumbered slaves. In fact, there were many more European settlers to North America in the "first wave of immigration" than there were slaves.

It's only when you include the Spanish and Portuguese portions of the New World that you find that slaves "greatly outnumbered" European immigrants. This is part of the reason that in Brazil today -- in contrast to the U.S. -- a slight majority of the population has African ancestry.

The quote had confused me because it seems to mix up immigration to North America only, with immigration to the entire New World.

RCO
11-05-2013, 05:05 PM
In Colonial Brazil the number of Africans brought outnumbered the Portuguese in several times, but the successful reproduction of the Portuguese in Brazil was far bigger than the Africans or even the Portuguese in Portugal, that's why the Brazilian Portuguese Y DNA nowadays is ten times bigger than the Portuguese Y DNA.

Brazil

Portuguese Colonists
1500-1700 = 100.000
1700-1800 = 600.000

African Slaves
1500-1700 = 600.000
1700-1800 = 2.000.000

geebee
11-06-2013, 02:21 AM
In Colonial Brazil the number of Africans brought outnumbered the Portuguese in several times, but the successful reproduction of the Portuguese in Brazil was far bigger than the Africans or even the Portuguese in Portugal, that's why the Brazilian Portuguese Y DNA nowadays is ten times bigger than the Portuguese Y DNA.

Brazil

Portuguese Colonists
1500-1700 = 100.000
1700-1800 = 600.000

African Slaves
1500-1700 = 600.000
1700-1800 = 2.000.000

RCO, do you have figures for mtDNA? Because the Y DNA figures only tell us that Portuguese men were more successful in reproducing than African men were. (Of course, with these numbers for early immigration/importation, we might expect that given equal "reproductive success", the African percentage in "today's Brazil" should be even higher than it is reported to be.)

RCO
11-06-2013, 09:34 PM
I would say the Amerindian mtDNA has constantly grown at fast rates in Brazil since the Colonial times because the women were assimilated into the expanding Brazilian society and so with the African mtDNA. The European mtDNA had a small beginning in Colonial Brazil but let's remember the the logarithmic growth of the Brazilian population since the 1500's and the immigration of 6 millions of European immigrants to the country in the period of 1850-1930 with a rapid demographic expansion and boom in the 20th Century. The Amerindian and African Y DNA had a slow growth in comparison to the European Y DNA, specially the Portuguese Colonial Y DNA.

I made a general estimate of the global Brazilian Y DNA and mtDNA:

Brazilian population= 200 million

100 Million Men in Brazil
- 55% Brazilian Portuguese = 40% Colonial Hardcore - 15% Post-Independence
Immigration. (55 million men with Portuguese Surnames - 100% of the “White”
population in this category=20 million, 90% of the “Pardo”-“Mulatto”=30
million, 40% of the “Black”=5 million).
Less than 100 thousand men in Northern Portugal around the year 1000AD at
the height of the Islamic Wars in NW Iberia.
More than 400 thousand Portuguese crossed the Atlantic in the conquest and
colonization of Brazil 1500-1800.
55 million of Brazilian Portuguese Y DNA X 5 million of European Portuguese.
Ratio of 11X1 in favor to Brazil.
- 12% Italian - Post-Independence Immigration
- 8% Spanish – 2% Colonial – 6% Post-Independence Immigration. Galicia
represents more than half of the Spanish contribution.
- 5% Amerindian – Native. Concentration in Northern Brazil
- 5% African – Colonial-1850. Concentration in the Littoral.
- 5% German - Post-Independence Immigration. Concentration in the South
- 3% Arab, Lebanese, Syrian - Post-Independence Immigration
- 2% Polish - Post-Independence Immigration. Concentration in the South
- 2% Japanese - Post-Independence Immigration. São Paulo, Paraná.
- 3% Swiss, French, English ,Ukrainian and other Eastern European, Armenian,
Roma, Chinese, Jew, Others Post-Independence Immigration

100 Million Women in Brazil
-33% Amerindian
-33% Eurasian
10% Portuguese – 2% Colonial- 8% post-Independence. 10 million of Brazilian
Portuguese women X 5 million of European Portuguese. Ratio of 2X1 to Brazil.
5% Spanish
7% Italian
4% German
2% Japanese
2% Polish
1% Arab
2% Ukrainian, Swiss, French, English, Other Eastern European, Armenian,
Roma, Chinese, Jew, Others
-33% African

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GENEALOGY-DNA/2012-02/1330173311

Pfeifer
02-15-2015, 10:07 PM
I would say the Amerindian mtDNA has constantly grown at fast rates in Brazil since the Colonial times because the women were assimilated into the expanding Brazilian society and so with the African mtDNA. The European mtDNA had a small beginning in Colonial Brazil but let's remember the the logarithmic growth of the Brazilian population since the 1500's and the immigration of 6 millions of European immigrants to the country in the period of 1850-1930 with a rapid demographic expansion and boom in the 20th Century. The Amerindian and African Y DNA had a slow growth in comparison to the European Y DNA, specially the Portuguese Colonial Y DNA.

I made a general estimate of the global Brazilian Y DNA and mtDNA:

Brazilian population= 200 million

100 Million Men in Brazil
- 55% Brazilian Portuguese = 40% Colonial Hardcore - 15% Post-Independence
Immigration. (55 million men with Portuguese Surnames - 100% of the “White”
population in this category=20 million, 90% of the “Pardo”-“Mulatto”=30
million, 40% of the “Black”=5 million).
Less than 100 thousand men in Northern Portugal around the year 1000AD at
the height of the Islamic Wars in NW Iberia.
More than 400 thousand Portuguese crossed the Atlantic in the conquest and
colonization of Brazil 1500-1800.
55 million of Brazilian Portuguese Y DNA X 5 million of European Portuguese.
Ratio of 11X1 in favor to Brazil.
- 12% Italian - Post-Independence Immigration
- 8% Spanish – 2% Colonial – 6% Post-Independence Immigration. Galicia
represents more than half of the Spanish contribution.
- 5% Amerindian – Native. Concentration in Northern Brazil
- 5% African – Colonial-1850. Concentration in the Littoral.
- 5% German - Post-Independence Immigration. Concentration in the South
- 3% Arab, Lebanese, Syrian - Post-Independence Immigration
- 2% Polish - Post-Independence Immigration. Concentration in the South
- 2% Japanese - Post-Independence Immigration. São Paulo, Paraná.
- 3% Swiss, French, English ,Ukrainian and other Eastern European, Armenian,
Roma, Chinese, Jew, Others Post-Independence Immigration

100 Million Women in Brazil
-33% Amerindian
-33% Eurasian
10% Portuguese – 2% Colonial- 8% post-Independence. 10 million of Brazilian
Portuguese women X 5 million of European Portuguese. Ratio of 2X1 to Brazil.
5% Spanish
7% Italian
4% German
2% Japanese
2% Polish
1% Arab
2% Ukrainian, Swiss, French, English, Other Eastern European, Armenian,
Roma, Chinese, Jew, Others
-33% African

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GENEALOGY-DNA/2012-02/1330173311

Your estimate is not accurate because you used conclusions taken from a study conducted only with White Brazilian samples. African MtDNA and Y-Chromossome are much higher among black Brazilians. 85% of black Brazilians carry African mtdna, compared to 28% of Whites