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Solothurn
11-09-2013, 12:28 PM
Rathna (thanks :) ) looked at my haplotype a while back and commented on my DYS511= 9

I looked at all the U152 and saw this is not that common except in Brits and 2 others.

All my group (11) : A:a:a:a: U152>YCA=19,22+dys447=27
57169 Thomas Brown, b.c. 1795 Georgia or Tenn. United Kingdom
107313 Thomas Slee d. 1762 Kirkby Stephen, England
N4750 John Dwan b 1798- d 1878, County Cork, Ireland
23943 Ignatious Butler born October 2, 1755, died 1810
94588 JOSIAH TWEEDY b:10/16/1829 d:01/14/1918 N. Ireland
287052 Abraham Valine, b. ABT 1650 England
83705 Thomas Edmundson 1540 England

Others
170418 James Kessele, b.1812, Baden, mar Christina b 1821
130533 Francis M. Frady, b. 1840-42?, NC

At this point only U152** = 9 from Geno is Colangelo :)

Is this a possible cluster or just a concidence ??

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/R1b-U152/default.aspx?section=yresults

Your thoughts are very welcome :)

Rathna
11-09-2013, 02:52 PM
Rathna (thanks :) ) looked at my haplotype a while back and commented on my DYS511= 9

I looked at all the U152 and saw this is not that common except in Brits and 2 others.

All my group (11) : A:a:a:a: U152>YCA=19,22+dys447=27
57169 Thomas Brown, b.c. 1795 Georgia or Tenn. United Kingdom
107313 Thomas Slee d. 1762 Kirkby Stephen, England
N4750 John Dwan b 1798- d 1878, County Cork, Ireland
23943 Ignatious Butler born October 2, 1755, died 1810
94588 JOSIAH TWEEDY b:10/16/1829 d:01/14/1918 N. Ireland
287052 Abraham Valine, b. ABT 1650 England
83705 Thomas Edmundson 1540 England

Others
170418 James Kessele, b.1812, Baden, mar Christina b 1821
130533 Francis M. Frady, b. 1840-42?, NC

At this point only U152** = 9 from Geno is Colangelo :)

Is this a possible cluster or just a concidence ??

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/R1b-U152/default.aspx?section=yresults

Your thoughts are very welcome :)

At a first glance it seems that the modal of R-U152 of these markers is 8 10 10 8 10 10. Of course a few mutations may have happened from the first R-U152*, and to understand if we have a cluster or independent mutations we should take in account all the other markers, but perhaps it could be useful to exam the last of the 67 ones:
107313 Thomas Slee d. 1762 Kirkby Stephen, England England R1b1a2a1a1b3
12 11 13 11 11 12 12
120479 William Hall b.c. 1765 d: 1812 Unknown Origin R1b1a2a1a1b3
12 11 13 11 11 12 12
223929 Frank Colangelo, b.1889 San Fele, Italy; d.1974 Italy R1b1a2a1a1b3
12 11 13 11 11 12 12
N25073 Jacob Ziegler Sr., b.c.1800, Gaiberg, Germany Germany R1b1a2a1a1b3
12 11 13 11 11 12 12
204013 Jacob Musselman b c1698, to Bucks Co, PA c1724 Switzerland R1b1a2a1a1b3
12 11 13 11 11 12 12
A:a:a:a: U152>YCA=19,22+dys447=27 (L2- Z36- Z56- Z192- Z194- CTS7193- F1493- PF4363-, Order Geno 2.0
12 11 13 11 11 12 12
You can see that all these haplotypes have a recent common ancestor. Probably the most ancient are:
B:1: U152 (L2- Z56-, some are also Z36-, Please order Z194 or Geno 2.0
12 11 14 11 12 12 12
12 11 15 11 12 12 12
B:2: U152> Z192> Z194 (Z193-)B:2: U152> Z192> Z194 (Z193-)
12 11 15 11 12 12 13
Of course there are cluster of R-U152/L2 very old:
D1: L2> L196 (Z49- Z258/367/384- S42/L141/654- L69- L135- L209- L408/409/443-, L343 L473 nt
19736 Thomas Barton of Stafford Co VA, 1678 (English) England R1b1a2a1a1b3c2
13 24 14 11 10-14 12 13 12 13 13 29 17 9-10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15-15-16-17 11 11 19-23 17 15 19 17 35-36 12 12 11 9 15-17 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 23-23 17 10 12 12 15 8 13 23 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 11 33 14 10 16 12 27 26 19 12 11 12 11 10 9 14 12 11 11 11 30 12 13 24 13 10 10 20 15 19 14 23 17 12 15 24 12 23 18 10 14 17 9 12 11
D2: L2> L69/L408/L409/L443 (Z49- Z258/367/384- L135/343- L196- L209- L473- S42/L141/654-)
65671 Leizor Iosevich Levitzskij, b.ca1766 Ukraine R1b1a2
13 23 14 10 10-10 12 12 12 13 13 29 18 9-9 11 11 25 15 19 32 15-16-16-17 11 11 19-23 17 15 19 17 35-38 11 13 11 9 15-16 8 11 10 8 10 10 12 23-23 15 10 12 12 15 8 12 23 20 14 12 11 13 11 11 11 11 34 15 9 16 12 26 26 19 11 11 12 12 10 9 12 12 10 11 11 30 12 12 24 13 10 10 19 15 19 15 24 16 12 15 24 12 23 18 10 14 18 9 12 11
Probably for this and others Geno 2.0 said that R-U152 was born in Middle East. I'd say that there are some Jewish clusters which may derive from Sea Peoples and not from introgressions after the Diaspora. But of course, as usual, it is one only haplotype and presupposes this European cluster:
D5: U152> L2> L69 (Z49- Z258/367/384- L196- L408/409/443-, L135/343 L209 L473 S42/L141/654 nt)
21910 David Lewis born 21 Feb 1775 Guilford, North Wales Wales R1b1a2a1a1b3c
13 24 14 12 11-15 12 12 12 13 13 30 17 9-10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15-15-17-17 11 12 19-23 15 15 18 17 36-37 12 12 11 9 15-16 8 10 10 8 10 11 12 23-23 15 10 12 12 14 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12 36 15 9 16 12 27 26 19 12 11 13 12 10 9 12 12 10 11 11 30 12 14 24 13 10 9 22 15 18 12 22 16 12 15 24 12 23 18 11 14 17 9 13 11
D6: U152> L2> F1237 / L617 / P329 (Z49- Z367-)
And lastly the clusters with DYS492=14:
N16074 Pietro Dal Lago, 1660, Arzignano, Vicenza, Italy Italy R1b1a2a1a1b3
13 25 14 11 11-14 12 12 10 13 13 30 17 8-10 11 11 26 15 19 29 15-16-17-17 11 10 19-23 15 14 18 16 35-37 13 12 11 9 15-16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 23-23 16 10 12 12 16 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 14 12 35 15 9 16 12 27 26 19 12 11 12 12 10 9 12 12 10 12 11 30 12 13 24 12 8 10 20 15 19 13 24 17 12 15 24 12 23 18 10 14 17 9 12 11

Rathna
11-10-2013, 01:33 AM
Fortunately that this haplotype has survived
93364 Meir Ast, Berezhany (Brzezany), Ukraine 1842-1931 Poland R1b1a2
13 23 14 10 10-10 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9-9 11 11 25 15 19 32 15-16-16-16 11 11 19-23 17 15 18 17 35-38 11 13 11 9 15-16 8 11 10 8 10 10 12 23-23 15 10 12 12 15 8 12 23 20 14 12 11 13 11 11 12 11
with DYS492=12, thus this haplotype isn't so outlier:
8 11 10 8 10 10
and
12 11 13 11 11 12 11
It seems close to
D1: L2> L196 (Z49- Z258/367/384- S42/L141/654- L69- L135- L209- L408/409/443-, L343 L473 nt):
8 10 10 8 10 10
and
12 11 13 11 11 12 11

Rathna
11-10-2013, 09:51 AM
1 14 13 29 23 10 13 13 10,10 13 11 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -
1 of 114 Nowy Sacz, Poland [Polish] Eurasian - European - Eastern European Europe
Very likely this haplotype for its DYS438=13 is the same of the Jewish cluster. Difficult to say where the introgression is from.
1 14 13 29 23 10 13 13 10,11 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -
1 of 275 Hamburg, Germany [German] Eurasian - European - Western European Europe
If this were the same haplotype, it would be in favor of a R-U152/L2/L69+ of North-East Europe.
14 13 29 23 11 13 13 10,11 4 >>
14 13 29 23 10 13 13 11,11 22 >>
14 13 30 23 10 13 13 10,11 1 >>
14 13 29 24 10 13 13 10,11 1
1 14 13 29 24 10 13 13 10,11 12 13 15 19 16 17 23 12 19 23 13 13 17 11 - >>
1 of 213 Puglia, Italy [Italian] Eurasian - European - South-Eastern European Europe
Difficult to say if these haplotypes belong to the same haplogroup, but they have DYS438=12 and not 13.

Solothurn
09-08-2014, 06:30 PM
I wonder if our DYS511=9 could be a possible 'rarity' pointing to SNP S20550+?

Myself and Weir are now U152+, S20550+. Kit 130533 Frady, has agreed to order when S20550+ becomes available (Rich has requested it with them). No reply from Kessele and I have not contacted the other 'Brits'. I will when FTDNA release it for testing :)

mafe
09-08-2014, 07:17 PM
DYS511=9 isn't unique to the U152*-group, but in combination with YCAII=19-22 or DYS447=27, it could be an indicator for S20550.

Solothurn
09-08-2014, 07:28 PM
I hope so. Kessele and Frady are YCAII=19-22 :)

mafe
09-08-2014, 07:56 PM
DYS447=27 + YCAII=19-22 + DYS511=9

188234 Rowley
250602 Bonnington
N87068 Atkins
135292 Pate
159746 Hickerson
271196 Holland
106753 Alexander
111641 -
134213 Rowley

YCAII=19-22 + DYS511=9

170418 Kessele
130533 Frady
287052 Valine
83705 Edmundson

DYS511=9

N4750 Dwan
94588 Tweedy
223929 Colangelo
57169 Brown

Solothurn
09-13-2014, 02:49 PM
And also another DYS511=9 23943 Butler, awaiting his BigY results :)


DYS447=27 + YCAII=19-22 + DYS511=9

188234 Rowley
250602 Bonnington
N87068 Atkins
135292 Pate
159746 Hickerson
271196 Holland
106753 Alexander
111641 -
134213 Rowley

YCAII=19-22 + DYS511=9

170418 Kessele
130533 Frady
287052 Valine
83705 Edmundson

DYS511=9

N4750 Dwan
94588 Tweedy
223929 Colangelo
57169 Brown

Solothurn
12-09-2014, 06:16 PM
S20550+ :)

188234 Rowley
250602 Bonnington

If I can get a $20 voucher I will order it, just to see a + on FTDNA :beerchug:

Solothurn
12-17-2014, 12:56 PM
130533 Hiram St. Clair, 1798 > Francis M. Frady, 1840 S20550-
134213, Another Rowley + (as expected)

Will probably take months for new SNP orders now, with all the discounted sales :(


S20550+ :)

188234 Rowley
250602 Bonnington

If I can get a $20 voucher I will order it, just to see a + on FTDNA :beerchug:

Solothurn
01-03-2015, 07:22 PM
287052 Abraham Valine S20550+ though don't know why they are making him R-SRY2627/R1b2a1a1a1a7a1a

B3265 Peter Searfoss/Zerfass S20550+ also DYS511=9

Solothurn
01-03-2015, 07:31 PM
So how distant please?

Valine
13 24 14 11 11-13 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 9-9 11 11 25 15 19 30 15-15-17-18 11 11 19-22 17 14 17 18 37-37 11 12 11 9 15-16 8 10 10 8 10 9 12 23-23 16 10 12 12 17 8 12 22 19 15 12 11 13 11 11 12 12

Me
13 24 14 11 11-14 12 12 12 12 13 28 16 9-10 11 11 27 15 19 27 15-15-16-17 11 11 19-22 15 15 18 18 36-37 11 12 11 9 15-16 8 10 10 8 10 9 12 23-23 16 10 12 12 16 8 12 23 20 13 12 11 13 11
11 12 12

mafe
01-04-2015, 10:20 AM
287052 Abraham Valine S20550+ though don't know why they are making him R-SRY2627/R1b2a1a1a1a7a1a

B3265 Peter Searfoss/Zerfass S20550+ also DYS511=9

Ouch, FTDNA subclade predictions :doh: Not too long ago those predictions were "guaranteed".

Solothurn
01-04-2015, 06:35 PM
Very true :)

Maybe S20550 is in other subclades now!

If Weir is now 7009462 and so is another more distant member then I must also be 7009462+


Ouch, FTDNA subclade predictions :doh: Not too long ago those predictions were "guaranteed".

Texas Republic Ware
07-27-2016, 12:01 AM
This is my first post just to say hello.

Kit #343221 (Old Hugh Weir of Augusta/Rockbridge VA d. 1779)
My mother, my sister and I, met S. Wear and we shared a very nice meal together out here in Southern California.
My mother, my uncles, and Steve share old Hugh Weir as their 5x Gt. Grandfather.

YCAII = 19,22
DYS44 = 27
DYS511 = 9

S20550+

Solothurn
07-27-2016, 08:46 AM
Hi Texas Republic Ware

I am pretty sure you would also be FGC30121+, Y6354+ and R-BY3847+. I think the last two are one of the same but don't know for sure :)

I think our common ancestor was about 30x Gt. Grandfather :)

Please join the U152 project

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-1b-u152/about/background





This is my first post just to say hello.

Kit #343221 (Old Hugh Weir of Augusta/Rockbridge VA d. 1779)
My mother, my sister and I, met S. Wear and we shared a very nice meal together out here in Southern California.
My mother, my uncles, and Steve share old Hugh Weir as their 5x Gt. Grandfather.

YCAII = 19,22
DYS44 = 27
DYS511 = 9

S20550+

Solothurn
12-11-2017, 06:38 PM
What is going on???

Hiram St. Clair, 1798 > Francis M. Frady, 1840 is now FGC30121+!

I presume via John Saintclair, b. 1774(?), d. 1835 (Wilkes, NC) who is FGC30121+