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Nqp15hhu
11-05-2018, 02:42 AM
So, my surname is Cummins which I know is Irish, however, that isnít my true surname. I have had access to family records from the area of NI where my family is from.

The name changes in the following ways:
1. McCummins 1800.
2. Muskimmin 1740.
3. Miskimmins 1747,1750 and 1760.
4. Miskemin 1666.
5. Cumming (not my relatives but a very distant connection who are now called Cummings).

I have no proof that these are my ancestors but itís pretty likely given the small population of the townland and the stubbornness of my ancestors to live anywhere else but a specific townland for hundreds of years.

Now, I have a few questions:
1. Why would my family have Changed the spelling of their surname.
2. What does Mis and Mus mean in Irish or British surnames? It is very unique and I havenít seen anything like this before.
3. Why can I only find this Miskimmin and Muskimmin in Northern Ireland??
4. If my family are part of the Cumming clan why did they not stick with the Cumming name?

Itís all very interesting and I would like to find further information about this strange surname.

I would like to find the initial origin of this name.

Sikeliot
11-05-2018, 12:44 PM
Since you're from northern Ireland, could very well be British. Most likely from Scotland.

Phoebe Watts
11-05-2018, 02:57 PM
[QUOTE=Nqp15hhu;513059]
Now, I have a few questions:
1. Why would my family have Changed the spelling of their surname.
[/
QUOTE]

Unless your family were literate and high status, it is worth considering whether the name differences were the work of administators and clergymen. That could be deliberate, or an honest attempt to write down what they heard.

castle3
11-05-2018, 06:39 PM
So, my surname is Cummins which I know is Irish, however, that isn’t my true surname. I have had access to family records from the area of NI where my family is from.

The name changes in the following ways:
1. McCummins 1800.
2. Muskimmin 1740.
3. Miskimmins 1747,1750 and 1760.
4. Miskemin 1666.
5. Cumming (not my relatives but a very distant connection who are now called Cummings).

I have no proof that these are my ancestors but it’s pretty likely given the small population of the townland and the stubbornness of my ancestors to live anywhere else but a specific townland for hundreds of years.

Now, I have a few questions:
1. Why would my family have Changed the spelling of their surname.
2. What does Mis and Mus mean in Irish or British surnames? It is very unique and I haven’t seen anything like this before.
3. Why can I only find this Miskimmin and Muskimmin in Northern Ireland??
4. If my family are part of the Cumming clan why did they not stick with the Cumming name?

It’s all very interesting and I would like to find further information about this strange surname.

I would like to find the initial origin of this name.

You should investigate links to the Comyn surname - famous in Scottish history. However, be aware that many pedigrees in Scotland were based on false claims, sadly.

spruithean
11-05-2018, 06:56 PM
I hope this link works, but this is what I found on the name Miskimmin(s): https://www.johngrenham.com/findasur...name=Miskimmin

Perhaps your ancestors used the surname MacCummins or MacSkimming, which eventually changed to Miskimmin(s) and later simplified to your family's current spelling? Just a thought. That "Mac Skimming" name has a presence in Galloway, which is one of the main places Scots migrated from to Northern Ireland IIRC.

To quote my previous post about this surname.


So, my surname is Cummins which I know is Irish, however, that isn’t my true surname. I have had access to family records from the area of NI where my family is from.

The name changes in the following ways:
1. McCummins 1800.
2. Muskimmin 1740.
3. Miskimmins 1747,1750 and 1760.
4. Miskemin 1666.
5. Cumming (not my relatives but a very distant connection who are now called Cummings).

I have no proof that these are my ancestors but it’s pretty likely given the small population of the townland and the stubbornness of my ancestors to live anywhere else but a specific townland for hundreds of years.

Now, I have a few questions:
1. Why would my family have Changed the spelling of their surname.
2. What does Mis and Mus mean in Irish or British surnames? It is very unique and I haven’t seen anything like this before.
3. Why can I only find this Miskimmin and Muskimmin in Northern Ireland??
4. If my family are part of the Cumming clan why did they not stick with the Cumming name?

It’s all very interesting and I would like to find further information about this strange surname.

I would like to find the initial origin of this name.

There could be several answers for your questions here, so I'll take a stab at them...

1. Your family could have changed the spelling for any number of reasons, save space on paper, preferred the other name variant, or just a random decision made that everyone seemed to be okay with.

2. Mis, or Mus could be literal pronunciations of written forms of M'Skimming (with the Mac contracted to M' and the ac/c sound ignored accidentally).

3. Perhaps you can only find Miskimmin/Muskimmin in Northern Ireland because the name wasn't very common to begin with in Southern Scotland that majority of members who didn't change their name happened to live in Northern Ireland.

4. The Clan system isn't as simple as that. Surnames could be fluid in certain instances due to political environments or certain scenarios people were living through at a certain time. Given you've traced your family name to Miskimmin (or any variant therein) I would think there isn't any relation to the Cumming clan of Scotland, and you should perhaps look into researching the rather uncommon surname of MacSkimming, which allegedly has roots in Galloway, which (I'm sure you've noticed) is not far from Northern Ireland at all!

Saetro
11-06-2018, 06:59 PM
I have known people from Galloway and also the North East of Scotland who knew Cummings / Skimmings who, only a generation ago, used these forms interchangeably.
And I believe the practice continues in spoken word to this day.
Yes, this seems weird, but that is what happens.
And the "s" on the end comes and goes.
"Mc" is just "son of". We tend to obsess over whether it should be Mc or Mac, but many in the 1700s/1800s in Scotland wrote it as "M' ".
This simply shows that the "c" part was so de-stressed as to be unhearable.
The "Mus" and "Mis" beginnings are all cases of phonetic spelling of "M'Skimming"

Then we have the fact that spelling did not crystallize until compulsory schooling of around 1870s on.
Before that, people usually spelled unfamiliar words as they sounded to them.
Many clerks, census and registration officers would ask the person they were dealing with their name and then wrote it down as best they could.
Officials could often be from a different place and unfamiliar with aspects of local pronunciation.
Submitting individuals often were not shown what had been written.
Even if they were, many could not read it.

With this in mind, what you have is the same family over a period of time, recorded in slightly different ways.

Saetro
11-06-2018, 07:03 PM
I have known people from Galloway and also the North East of Scotland who knew Cummings / Skimmings who, only a generation ago, used these forms interchangeably.
And I believe the practice continues in spoken word to this day.
Yes, this seems weird, but that is what happens.
And the "s" on the end comes and goes. It is another form of "son of".
"Mc" is just "son of". We tend to obsess over whether it should be Mc or Mac, but many in the 1700s/1800s in Scotland wrote it as "M' ".
This simply shows that the "c" part was so de-stressed as to be unhearable.
The "Mus" and "Mis" beginnings are all cases of phonetic spelling of "M'Skimming"

Then we have the fact that spelling often did not crystallize until compulsory schooling of the late 1800s.
Before that, people usually spelled unfamiliar words as they sounded to them.
Many clerks, census and registration officers would ask the person they were dealing with their name and then wrote it down as best they could.
Officials could often be from a different place and unfamiliar with aspects of local pronunciation.
Submitting individuals often were not shown what had been written.
Even if they were, many could not read it.

With this in mind, what you have is the same family over a period of time, recorded in slightly different ways.

Nqp15hhu
11-06-2018, 11:33 PM
I have known people from Galloway and also the North East of Scotland who knew Cummings / Skimmings who, only a generation ago, used these forms interchangeably.
And I believe the practice continues in spoken word to this day.
Yes, this seems weird, but that is what happens.
And the "s" on the end comes and goes. It is another form of "son of".
"Mc" is just "son of". We tend to obsess over whether it should be Mc or Mac, but many in the 1700s/1800s in Scotland wrote it as "M' ".
This simply shows that the "c" part was so de-stressed as to be unhearable.
The "Mus" and "Mis" beginnings are all cases of phonetic spelling of "M'Skimming"

Then we have the fact that spelling often did not crystallize until compulsory schooling of the late 1800s.
Before that, people usually spelled unfamiliar words as they sounded to them.
Many clerks, census and registration officers would ask the person they were dealing with their name and then wrote it down as best they could.
Officials could often be from a different place and unfamiliar with aspects of local pronunciation.
Submitting individuals often were not shown what had been written.
Even if they were, many could not read it.

With this in mind, what you have is the same family over a period of time, recorded in slightly different ways.

Thank you. So if this is Clan Cumming why is the surname listed as McSkimmings in SW Scotland and not Cumming like elsewhere in Scotland?

I would love to find more history of this surname.

Nqp15hhu
11-06-2018, 11:37 PM
You should investigate links to the Comyn surname - famous in Scottish history. However, be aware that many pedigrees in Scotland were based on false claims, sadly.

Yes. This is why I am confused because it looks like McSkimmings was used in SW Scotland but Cumming everywhere else. This leads me to wonder if this is a different surname? And what was the surname before McSkimmings?

Nqp15hhu
11-06-2018, 11:41 PM
Btw I have seen the name McSkimmings in Scottish records and it seems to be highly restricted to the Machars Pininsula, Wigtownshire which is VERY interesting because it is not common to find a surname in the UK so restricted to a specific area.

Iím not sure if my family is related to that one but interesting none the less.

mildlycurly
11-07-2018, 12:31 AM
Cumming sounds Scottish to me- you might want to see if it or its past variants have any connection to a clan.

Nqp15hhu
11-07-2018, 12:40 AM
This is the problem, I cannot find anything on this surname because it is very localised.

spruithean
11-07-2018, 12:15 PM
MACSKIMMING: Thomas Mackskimming in Auchneicht, 1684. The name occurs in Galloway in 1684 as McScumin, McSimyn, and McSkiming (Parish). David M'Skimming in Cairndirrie, 1757 (Wigtown). - Forebears.io

The entry for MacSkimming/Miskimin, etc on Ancestry describes the name as "Northern Irish" from Galloway rooted surname "Mac Skimming". MacSkimming seems to be a patronymic of an unknown name. However from that Forebears entry it's possible it means "Son of Simon". Perhaps the Gaelic pronunciation added some k sounds when anglicised.

Nqp15hhu
11-07-2018, 10:16 PM
- Forebears.io

The entry for MacSkimming/Miskimin, etc on Ancestry describes the name as "Northern Irish" from Galloway rooted surname "Mac Skimming". MacSkimming seems to be a patronymic of an unknown name. However from that Forebears entry it's possible it means "Son of Simon". Perhaps the Gaelic pronunciation added some k sounds when anglicised.

Funny that the name has now come round to Cummins, 'son of comyn'. It is listed as a Sept of the Cumming Clan.

However, this is all presumptuous, it can only be proved by a Y-DNA test. I think we're on the right lines though.

Stephen1986
11-08-2018, 10:22 AM
My 5x great grandmother was a Margaret Cummins, who was married to a John McKenna sometime in the early 1800s, although I only know of the marriage via the baptism record of my ancestor Robert. They had two children in Armagh but I know very little about either Margaret or John.

Nqp15hhu
11-08-2018, 01:44 PM
Yeah, I think your Cummins is part of the Irish variety. I checked your Gedmatch and we share 0 Centimorgans. Looking at the 1911 Ireland Census there seems to be a boundary of Irish Cummins and Scottish 'Cummins' around Fermanagh, Armagh and Cavan. With a large branch down near Cork.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?census_year=1911&surname=cummins&exact=&firstname=&county19011911=Leitrim&county1821=&county1831=&county1841=&county1851=&townland=&ded=&age=&sex=&relationToHead=&religion=&education=&occupation=&marriageStatus=&marriageYears=&childrenBorn=&childrenLiving=&birthplace=&nativeCountry=&language=&deafdumb=&houseNumber=&familiesNumber=&malesNumber=&femalesNumber=&maleServNumber=&femaleServNumber=&estChurchNumber=&romanCatNumber=&presbNumberDiv=&protNumber=&parish=&barony=&yearsMarried=&causeOfDeath=&yearOfDeath=&familyId=&ageInMonths=&search=Search&sort=&pageSize=100

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?census_year=1911&surname=cummins&exact=&firstname=&county19011911=Louth&county1821=&county1831=&county1841=&county1851=&townland=&ded=&age=&sex=&relationToHead=&religion=&education=&occupation=&marriageStatus=&marriageYears=&childrenBorn=&childrenLiving=&birthplace=&nativeCountry=&language=&deafdumb=&houseNumber=&familiesNumber=&malesNumber=&femalesNumber=&maleServNumber=&femaleServNumber=&estChurchNumber=&romanCatNumber=&presbNumberDiv=&protNumber=&parish=&barony=&yearsMarried=&causeOfDeath=&yearOfDeath=&familyId=&ageInMonths=&search=Search&sort=&pageSize=100

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?census_year=1911&surname=cummins&exact=&firstname=&county19011911=Down&county1821=&county1831=&county1841=&county1851=&townland=&ded=&age=&sex=&relationToHead=&religion=&education=&occupation=&marriageStatus=&marriageYears=&childrenBorn=&childrenLiving=&birthplace=&nativeCountry=&language=&deafdumb=&houseNumber=&familiesNumber=&malesNumber=&femalesNumber=&maleServNumber=&femaleServNumber=&estChurchNumber=&romanCatNumber=&presbNumberDiv=&protNumber=&parish=&barony=&yearsMarried=&causeOfDeath=&yearOfDeath=&familyId=&ageInMonths=&search=Search&sort=&pageSize=100

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?census_year=1911&surname=cummins&exact=&firstname=&county19011911=Tyrone&county1821=&county1831=&county1841=&county1851=&townland=&ded=&age=&sex=&relationToHead=&religion=&education=&occupation=&marriageStatus=&marriageYears=&childrenBorn=&childrenLiving=&birthplace=&nativeCountry=&language=&deafdumb=&houseNumber=&familiesNumber=&malesNumber=&femalesNumber=&maleServNumber=&femaleServNumber=&estChurchNumber=&romanCatNumber=&presbNumberDiv=&protNumber=&parish=&barony=&yearsMarried=&causeOfDeath=&yearOfDeath=&familyId=&ageInMonths=&search=Search&sort=&pageSize=100

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?census_year=1911&surname=cummins&exact=&firstname=&county19011911=Londonderry&county1821=&county1831=&county1841=&county1851=&townland=&ded=&age=&sex=&relationToHead=&religion=&education=&occupation=&marriageStatus=&marriageYears=&childrenBorn=&childrenLiving=&birthplace=&nativeCountry=&language=&deafdumb=&houseNumber=&familiesNumber=&malesNumber=&femalesNumber=&maleServNumber=&femaleServNumber=&estChurchNumber=&romanCatNumber=&presbNumberDiv=&protNumber=&parish=&barony=&yearsMarried=&causeOfDeath=&yearOfDeath=&familyId=&ageInMonths=&search=Search&sort=&pageSize=100

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?census_year=1911&surname=cummins&exact=&firstname=&county19011911=Cork&county1821=&county1831=&county1841=&county1851=&townland=&ded=&age=&sex=&relationToHead=&religion=&education=&occupation=&marriageStatus=&marriageYears=&childrenBorn=&childrenLiving=&birthplace=&nativeCountry=&language=&deafdumb=&houseNumber=&familiesNumber=&malesNumber=&femalesNumber=&maleServNumber=&femaleServNumber=&estChurchNumber=&romanCatNumber=&presbNumberDiv=&protNumber=&parish=&barony=&yearsMarried=&causeOfDeath=&yearOfDeath=&familyId=&ageInMonths=&search=Search&sort=&pageSize=100

spruithean
11-10-2018, 09:36 PM
Funny that the name has now come round to Cummins, 'son of comyn'. It is listed as a Sept of the Cumming Clan.

However, this is all presumptuous, it can only be proved by a Y-DNA test. I think we're on the right lines though.

Surnames can be a weird thing and no standard spelling makes things frustrating. I have relatives living today, who I see every now and then who spell their surname very different from how I spell it. That's less frustrating than how my ggg-grandfather went about doing things. Different signatures within 3 documents relating to the same event :lol:

I would certainly recommend Y-DNA testing and maybe submitting results to the Clan Cummings DNA Project, which certainly has many haplogroup lineages with variants of the Comyn name.

Vrump
11-18-2018, 12:36 PM
You are as you are: a predominantly sub-Saharan mixed individual (the sub-Saharan ethnic group is not indicated) with a significant European contribution.

I do not know what else to say.

Nqp15hhu
11-18-2018, 05:24 PM
Sub Saharan from Northern Ireland? I donít think so!

fridurich
11-19-2018, 12:54 AM
Sub Saharan from Northern Ireland? I donít think so!

I thought Vrump may have been jesting. With you mentioning your Northern Irish background and probable or possible Scottish MacSkimmin or Comyn ancestry, I donít see how anyone could conclude you are predominantly of mixed sub-Saharan background. I doubt if anyone else on this thread agrees with him, if he is making a serious statement, and not joking.

Kind Regards
Fred