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Mikewww
11-14-2013, 12:14 AM
Right now, I've got 87 L21 people with Big Y on order. I'm told I'm missing several. If you've seen an error or omission let me know.

[[[ EDIT: Updated in later post. ]]]

Brunetmj
11-14-2013, 03:39 AM
Add
198135 Brunet

hoxgi
11-14-2013, 05:44 AM
Right now, I've got 87 L21 people with Big Y on order. I'm told I'm missing several. If you seen an error or omission let me know.


Mike, here are the rest of the Z253+ Big Y orders from the Z253 Project:

f233265 Le Gall 253-2534-uas
f94662 Mitchell 253-1716-Mc-825
f244911 McCabe 253-2534-2185-1066-A1
f231060 Davison 253-2534-2185-1066-uas
f134798 zzz (Roderick) 253-1716-11F

This give us almost complete coverage of Z253. The only "official" downstream SNP which does not have a Big Y test ordered at this stage is DF73.

Greg H

Dubhthach
11-14-2013, 09:39 AM
As an aside it doesn't look like project admins can part sponsor "Big Y" through normal means. For example if someone was upgrading from 67 -> 111 STR's they could select "Pay by Invoice" and the project could either pay full cost or pay part of cost (for example $50). With "Big Y" you can only pay by credit-card.

In the R-DF41 project we are looking at sponsoring a number of "Big Y" tests to sum of $100 to ensure all the main clusters/varities are covered (we already got L563, L744 and "1426c cluster" covered with orders). I've sent an email to FTDNA helpdesk seeing if there is way around this.

-Paul
(DF41+)

Dubhthach
11-14-2013, 09:40 AM
f29705 McCown 41-1426C-A

Addition to your list (he also mailed it on yahoo list).

-Paul
(DF41+)

Axtol Wagson
11-14-2013, 01:41 PM
Is f289807 Torres indication that L21-DF5 originated in Mexico?

Arriba! Arriba! Andale!

MikeWhalen
11-14-2013, 03:41 PM
Yay, and 3 cheers for my very close NPE Vance family member getting this expensive test!!

f56954 Vance(Ulster) 513-V

-I will be looking forward to your results almost as much as you will..is it Dave that ordered it? In any case, thanks cousin!

ok-sorry for the wee derail, back to the original subject and extra cudo's to you MikeWWW for doing all the work on us L21's!!

Mike

DRMoore
11-14-2013, 08:02 PM
Could someone comment on the benefit of ordering the Big Y on a L21** kit if no other L21** guys order the Big Y. My understanding is that there are only a dozen or so L21** submissions, including those expected to be L21** and outside of a couple of family groups included in this number all have large GDs to each other. I assume some SNPs might be found below L21 that no DF13+, DF63+ or Z2542+ submissions or submissions with terminal SNPs below these three have. Am I right about this?

If any other L21** guys order the Big Y, we will certainly order the Big Y on a Wildes family kit, for it would provide results to compare the Wildes kits to. Thinking about doing it anyway.

290662, Wildes, L21+, L459+, Z245+, Z260+, Z290+, DF13-, DF63-, Z2542-.

Any comments or encouragement? Thanks. also posted on yahoo list

David R Moore, 122847

Mikewww
11-14-2013, 09:33 PM
Could someone comment on the benefit of ordering the Big Y on a L21** kit if no other L21** guys order the Big Y. My understanding is that there are only a dozen or so L21** submissions, including those expected to be L21** and outside of a couple of family groups included in this number all have large GDs to each other. I assume some SNPs might be found below L21 that no DF13+, DF63+ or Z2542+ submissions or submissions with terminal SNPs below these three have. Am I right about this?

If any other L21** guys order the Big Y, we will certainly order the Big Y on a Wildes family kit, for it would provide results to compare the Wildes kits to. Thinking about doing it anyway.

290662, Wildes, L21+, L459+, Z245+, Z260+, Z290+, DF13-, DF63-, Z2542-.

Any comments or encouragement? Thanks. also posted on yahoo list

David R Moore, 122847

David, Robert C gave an answer at the Yahoo group so I won't repeat that here. I agree with what he said but he obviously can put things quite precisely with his analytical mind. I'm just saying I would only foul up his answer by trying to build on it but what he is saying is clearly on target and I'm really glad he is thinking ahead about these things.

In my own more simplistic way of thinking, I suggest that people who have the most to gain in a test that can discover SNPs, like Big Y, are the people with the oldest terminal haplogroup. That means there are many generations/years from back then to now (or into the realm of private SNPs) to be discovered.

Another type that can really benefit are very large, but closely related groups, ones that are both big and young. The ones that pop to mind right away are M222, L1065 (Scots) and L226. They've been so prolific that they are hard to tell apart with STRs. They definitely need the SNPs to divide themselves up.

Of course, anyone can benefit. I have a terminal SNP that is fairly young so I don't expect to gain as much, but I am interested in deep ancestry and I can't resist at this price.:)

Mikewww
11-14-2013, 09:39 PM
Yay, and 3 cheers for my very close NPE Vance family member getting this expensive test!!

f56954 Vance(Ulster) 513-V

-I will be looking forward to your results almost as much as you will..is it Dave that ordered it? In any case, thanks cousin!
...

That is great. We do have several L513 clusters covered but need to hit a few more. In some cases, a second person in the cluster may want to if they think it might help break out the lineages... in other words they think there is a deep divide.

Mikewww
11-14-2013, 10:01 PM
I'm recounting kit #s to make sure, but right now I've got that the number of Big Y for L21 on order is 103!

If take a look back at the last year or two and what's up ahead the next six months, it's amazing.

I'm sure I'm missing some, but for L21 I can count:

63 WTY's completed

391 Geno 2.0's completed

131 Chromo 2's on order or completed

26 FG's on order or completed

103 Big Y's on order

To date the progress has been incremental, but we should not forget this has been progressing for a couple of years. I suppose we could consider that the advances were kicked off in earnest by the Rocca citizen-science R1b1a2 discovery paper by Rocca, Magoon, Reynolds, Krahn, Tilroe, Op den Velde Boots and Grierson. They are all great, but...

Thomas Krahn gets my vote as L21 Man of the Year.

Progress has now accelerated to a new level. Over the next six months or so should see the unveiling of the true public L21 phylogenetic tree.

Mikewww
11-18-2013, 03:08 PM
I'm now counting 141 Big Y's on order for L21. DF41 is a bit light. We should have a P314.2 guy in on this too. Relative to their size, I think M222 is a bit light, but they have a lot of things going on with new Chromo 2 SNPs for them and some of the things said at the FTDNA conference about a number of new SNPs.

Of course, there are many, many small varieties/clusters that don't have now subclades of L21. I'd like to see each cluster get one guy in at the least. I think we'd whittle this thing down quickly.

I am excited that we have a true L21* guy as well as DF63 people. We have a DF49* person in, but no DF23*. There is one Z2961* which should be very help for M222 in their comparisons.

Dubhthach
11-18-2013, 03:29 PM
f284562 Black 41-1013

Big-Y on order. I'm still waiting to hear back from FTDNA helpdesk, but hopefully will be able to sponsor at least a couple of fella's for test. Currently we have:
4 x DF41 testing Big-Y. These are broken down as:


1 x L744 (Stewart)
1 xL563
1 x 1426c cluster
1 x 41-1013 cluster


Further to this there are three FullGenomes tests in progress namely


2 x 1426c cluster (1 anonymous)
1 x 41-1013 cluster (myself)

Dubhthach
11-18-2013, 03:30 PM
Do we have any L371 and L144/L195 taking part? Ideally we should have someone from every ISOGG listed subclade. That way it will be lot easier to verify anything new (potential intermediate SNP's between DF13 and one or more subclades etc.)

-Paul
(DF41+)

Rory Cain
11-19-2013, 11:09 PM
I'm sure I'm missing some, but for L21 I can count:

63 WTY's completed

391 Geno 2.0's completed

131 Chromo 2's on order or completed

26 FG's on order or completed

103 Big Y's on order



Nice summary. For those yet to place an order, and for data capture of results from these various tests from various companies, which databases talk to each other? I am aware that WTY results on Finch2 can be communicated directly to the FTDNA main database as can Geno2.0. .....
This is looking important for project admins.

[[[Moderrator/Mikewww: 19Nov2013: I edited out the stuff I thought was in to company comparisons / product comparisons over to that thread. It's all there in its entirety. http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1565-FTDNA-s-Next-Gen-Y-Sequencing-Roll-out-Sale-vs-Full-Genomes-what-s-the-diff ]]]

Mikewww
11-19-2013, 11:51 PM
Nice summary. ....

Rory, I'm sorry to do this to you, but I'm doing it to Mark too and I think it fair to keep the comparative analysis discussion separate. I'll try to update this post to remove competitive stuff as that gets heated. I will however move the full post will be over at the comparision discussion thread here. http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1565-FTDNA-s-Next-Gen-Y-Sequencing-Roll-out-Sale-vs-Full-Genomes-what-s-the-diff

Mikewww
11-20-2013, 12:04 AM
Nice summary. For those yet to place an order, and for data capture of results from these various tests from various companies, which databases talk to each other? I am aware that WTY results on Finch2 can be communicated directly to the FTDNA main database as can Geno2.0. .....
This is looking important for project admins.

I'm now counting 159 L21 Big Y's on order. I'm very anxious too how FTDNA will provide integration of this new data into the FTDNA accounts and project screens. On another forum, there were several requirements/recommendations fed to them.

Dick H, brought this up on another forum, but a mass of positive SNP results is not the easiest thing to evaluate. I agree 100% and some. This is much of the reason why I use the spreadsheet I do.. to filter out to a "defining" or terminal SNP and then the immediately downstream negatives, which together I call the "relevant" SNPs. By doing it in a spreadsheet I can avoid errors and not kill myself. There are a couple of different kinds of comparisons though. There is the true phylogenetic comparison that David Reynolds has done for us and guys like David Carlisle can do or Chris Morley's tool, for that matter, at least roughly. What I do is take a defined tree and use that to assign an accurate haplogroup label and a relevant SNP list right beside all of the Y STRs so one can slice it and dice it.

Mikewww
11-20-2013, 12:16 AM
f284562 Black 41-1013

Big-Y on order. I'm still waiting to hear back from FTDNA helpdesk, but hopefully will be able to sponsor at least a couple of fella's for test. Currently we have:
4 x DF41 testing Big-Y. These are broken down as:


1 x L744 (Stewart)
1 xL563
1 x 1426c cluster
1 x 41-1013 cluster


Further to this there are three FullGenomes tests in progress namely


2 x 1426c cluster (1 anonymous)
1 x 41-1013 cluster (myself)


Thanks. That makes 160 L21 Big Y's.


Do we have any L371 and L144/L195 taking part?

As far as L371, this is the only guy in. It would be clearly nice to have one or two more.
fN84982 Turner 371-W1-A

This is the only L144+ guy. You are right, this would be a good time to the the L144.1? Kendall guys to test too.
f134830 Bracewell R1b-P312>L21>DF13>CTS1751+ L144.2+ 1751-1010

As anyone talked to Robert Hughes? He generally watches over these guys.

Mikewww
11-20-2013, 01:43 PM
I can now count 166 Big Y orders for L21. Let me know of errors or omissions. Here is the list.

f [[[ EDIT: see later post for update ]]]

MJost
11-20-2013, 02:11 PM
This is the most crazy thing I have ever seen. Such pent up demand from those who want to further define their paternal origins, hoping the Big Y's new technology will provide more clues to help tie the deeper lineages to the more recent geographic and ethnic ancestry.

It's great thing!

MJost

Dubhthach
11-20-2013, 04:33 PM
When you consider it's 500 bucks a shot that's some sales roll for FTDNA over the space of two weeks! (82grand+)

-Paul

MJost
11-20-2013, 08:56 PM
When you consider it's 500 bucks a shot that's some sales roll for FTDNA over the space of two weeks! (82grand+)

-Paul

And that's just the L21 guys too.

MJost

Celtarion
11-21-2013, 01:08 AM
I believe that "BIG Y" results might be delivered before FGS batch 5, due date is 31/12 for early orders batched last week.

GailT
11-21-2013, 01:44 AM
I've heard Feb for the first Big Y results. Tests may be complete sooner but they plan to process results before releasing them in Feb 2014. Based on past experience, FTDNA has often been late on delivering test results from when large numbers of tests have been ordered during sales.

Wing Genealogist
11-21-2013, 11:57 AM
It does sound like FTDNA is getting swamped with sales for the Big Y. I know there are about 70 folks from R1b-U106 and I have heard there are over 150 folk from R1b-P312 who have already ordered this test.

Dubhthach
11-21-2013, 12:34 PM
It does sound like FTDNA is getting swamped with sales for the Big Y. I know there are about 70 folks from R1b-U106 and I have heard there are over 150 folk from R1b-P312 who have already ordered this test.

166+ in just R1b-L21, you factor in other R1b-P312 clades it's probably well north of 200 by now.

Mikewww
11-21-2013, 01:54 PM
166+ in just R1b-L21, you factor in other R1b-P312 clades it's probably well north of 200 by now.
I'm traveling so I won't be able to keep up for a few days. For L21 we are north of 170 on Big Y somewhere.

Mikewww
11-27-2013, 12:15 AM
I'm traveling so I won't be able to keep up for a few days. ...
Same story. I'll be traveling. This is probably the last report before the end of the sale. I count 204 Big Y orders within L21. There are probably a few more out there somewhere in the Irish, Scottish or British projects. We do need more of the vast L21* and DF13* clusters to test for something, if not Big Y.


f16273 Anderson 1335-1065-Sc
fB1047 Bennett 1335-1065-Sc
f84796 Hosie 1335-1065-Sc
f10348 Lee 1335-1065-Sc
f230483 Lindsey 1335-1065-Sc
f260814 Looper 1335-1065-Sc
fB1955 McCoy 1335-1065-Sc
f57711 McDonald 1335-1065-Sc
f117764 McKinnon 1335-1065-Sc
f90181 McPherson 1335-1065-Sc
f153130 Moore 1335-1065-Sc
f156568 Rodgers 1335-1065-Sc
fN44383 Tate 1335-1065-Sc
f191228 McGregor 1335-1065-Sc2410
f219462 Gillispie 1335-1065-Sc2415
f12836 McDonald 1335-1065-Sc2415
f12816 McDonald 1335-1065-Sc2415
f238132 Kiler 1335-1065-Sc2424
f143812 MacRae 1335-1065-Sc2424
f241056 MacRae 1335-1065-Sc2424
f221193 McDaniel 1335-1065-Sc2424
f167382 MacDonald 1335-1065-Sc2437
f100137 McCoy 1335-1065-Sc2437
f108937 Neilson 1335-1065-Sc2437
f270944 Preston 1335-1065-Sc-743
f63127 Templeton 1335-1065-Sc-743
f228773 Price 1335-W2
f19706 Price 1335-W2
f134830 Bracewell 1751-1010
f285468 Henretty 21- uas
f50242 Lawrence 21- uas
fN11153 Corcoran 21-1123-Aran
fN27653 Cupit 21-1722
f146114 Bowe 21-2225-EC
f45013 Tracey 21-2225-EC
f51784 Humphrey 21-246-25-1321
f289807 Torres 21-246-255- uas
f45131 Doolin 21-246-255-1402
f122847 Moore 21-246-255-1402
f102866 Morrison 21-246-255-1402
fN20114 Coberly 21-246-255-3655- uas
f207157 Leahy 21-314-P12
f91126 Doyle 21-5909-1336
f237552 Doggart 21-5909-LS
f155957 Hall 21-5909-LS
f53766 Farris 21-720-Loc
f127469 Biggins 21-n922-A1
fN41845 Carroll 21-n922-A1
f166797 Hart 21-n922-A1
f264834 Courtney 21-n922-A1-B
f96415 Higgins 21-n922-A1-B
f109174 Harrington 251- uas
f187172 Lewis 251- uas
f65048 Erwin 251-555-Irw
f22874 Irvine 251-555-Irw
f24273 zzzUnk(Norman) 251-711
f174932 Anderson 253- uas
f229805 Bĝen(Hĝland) 253-1121
f219896 Heffernan 253-1121
f205635 Murta 253-1716-11
fN26398 Canady 253-1716-11C
f212724 Yorke 253-1716-11F
f134798 zzzUnk(Roderick) 253-1716-11F
f6879 Mangum 253-1716-1308
f94662 Mitchell 253-1716-Mc-825
f172277 Pry 253-1716-P
f233265 Le Gall 253-2534- uas
f264182 Hocking 253-2534-2185- uas
f231060 Davison 253-2534-2185-1066- uas
f118942 Wilkinson 253-2534-2185-1066- uas
f241991 Clancy 253-2534-2185-1066-A
f244911 McCabe 253-2534-2185-1066-A-1
f132694 Musgrave 253-2534-2185-1066-D
fB2394 Goff 253-2534-2185-1066-T4
fN16295 Ramsey 253-2534-2185-R
fB3820 Murray 253-2534-2185-S
fN54074 Cannon 253-2534-226-C3
f25505 Wright 253-2534-226-M
f48596 O'Brien 253-2534-226-O
f81795 Whitehead 253-2534-2521
f40717 MacKenzie 253-2534-643
f23996 Pike 253-554- uas
f100136 Phelps 255-1411
f10359 O'Shea(Cork) 255-1830-11
f90790 Coyle 255-1830-IS
f138281 Rennie 255-1830-IS-A
f3032 Beatty 255-1830-IS-B1
f158241 Betty 255-1830-IS-B1
f33100 Doty 255-1830-IS-B1
fN2553 Weymouth 255-1830-IS-B1
f88224 Quilliam 255-1830-IS-D
f185218 Murphy 255-1830-IS-M
f40730 Park 255-1830-IS-M
fN84982 Turner 371-W1-A
f284562 Black 41-1013
f21647 McCleland 41-1426C
f35212 McCrere 41-563-1411
f75703 Webb 41-744- uas
f35963 Pearce 41-744-Stu
f283694 Stewart 41-744-Stu
f147822 Stuart 41-744-Stu
f239315 Thompson 41-744-Stu
f169042 Barrus 4466-T2
f290447 Brown 4466-T2
fN59178 Carroll 4466-T2
f284952 Crowley 4466-T2
f352 Glennon 4466-T2
f273871 Howie 4466-T2
f75606 Irwin 4466-T2
f115485 Mahoney 4466-T2
f165440 Mahony 4466-T2
f202776 McCartney 4466-T2
f202133 Mulcahy 4466-T2
fH1944 Romundstad 4466-T2
fN45540 zzzUnk(Peel) 4466-T2
f10505 Simmons 4466-T2-B
f88489 Heffernan 4466-T2-C
f128753 Griffin 4466-T2-D2
f229625 Murray 4466-T2-D2
f179653 O'Sullivan 4466-T2-S
f117897 Stedman 49*-1017
f137235 Caldwell 49-23*-1922-C
fN108400 Joyce 49-2329-1640-B
f145320 Byrne 49-2329222- uas
f88905 Degnen 49-2329222- uas
f12701 Ferguson 49-2329222- uas
f202608 Ferguson 49-2329222- uas
f56154 Howle 49-2329222- uas
f47582 Leonard 49-2329222- uas
f135550 Milligan 49-2329222- uas
f229652 Williams 49-2329222- uas
f56598 Dunbar 49-2329222-1111
f43598 Lane 49-2329222-1412
f116366 Heaney 49-2329222-44927
f94854 Gillespie 49-2329222-48714
f181933 Lally 49-23292228- uas
fN104491 McCollum 49-23292228- uas
f228009 Kane 513- uas
f210379 Roberts 513- uas
f62937 Sinclair 513-A1-193-C
f9139 Kennedy(Ulster) 513-A1-193-K
f190210 MacDonald 513-A1-193-M
f159822 Meek 513-A1-193-N
f31293 McCown 513-A2-M
fN2051 McGuire 513-A2-M
f61721 Plunkett 513-A2-M
f43722 Connell 513-B
fN29541 Sunesson(Tibbhult) 513-B2-706
f58568 Barrett 513-B2-706-B
fN54638 Walsh 513-B2-706-W2
f5294 Rose 513-C2-R
f50994 MacPherson 513-D1
f83015 McConnell 513-D1
f131998 Fritts 513-D2
f4479 Devine 513-D2-A1
fN112468 Diver 513-D2-A1
f274757 Powell(Eng) 513-FA
f132342 Pillsbury 513-H
f188436 Noe 513-K1
fN57202 Healey 513-N
f56954 Vance(Ulster) 513-V
f56277 Winter 513-W
f170191 Bond 679
f290662 Wildes X13- uas
f298668 Bertrand X1363-21
fN11946 Broom X1363-219-A
f191950 Lowden X1363-56511
fN66966 Gery X1363-6919- uas
f206124 Black X1363-6919-1415
fN76446 McFarlin X1363-6919-1415
f237868 Collins z10109
fB3500 Bean z111010
f79421 Richards z1130-A2
f253986 Hautaaho(Kauhava) z11924
f185703 Pruett z121111
f3204 Maxwell z123014
fE5945 Secher z142024
f139021 Sivula z2217-A
f36483 McDaniel z2528-D
f171804 Sánchez z3881410
fN12172 O'Connor z3931219
f232910 Kendall z4361313
f116159 Kenyon z450611
f114135 Kenyon z450611
f190229 Wahab z56513-1924
f23361 Gregory z6171315
f191679 Britton z9919-A
fN8772 Porter z9919-B
f198135 Brunet zDF13unassigned
fN82444 Case zDF13unassigned
f173877 Collins zDF13unassigned
f26059 Durall zDF13unassigned
f235406 Le Duc zDF13unassigned
f227117 McNeiladge zDF13unassigned
f196158 Rickwood zDF13unassigned
fB2944 Thomas zDF13unassigned
f256925 Bengtsson(Sunne) zL21unassigned
f205239 Culver zL21unassigned
f271376 Norton zL21unassigned
f122950 Pruett zL21unassigned
f256386 Pruitt zL21unassigned
f92511 Taylor zL21unassigned
f26916 Weidener zL21unassigned
f180639 zzzUnk(Crawford) zL21unassigned

Mikewww
11-29-2013, 10:50 PM
I don't have access to my L21 files, but I see about 30 email notices of Big Y orders since Wednesday so we should be over 230.

.... I count 204 Big Y orders within L21. There are probably a few more out there somewhere in the Irish, Scottish or British projects....

Mikewww
11-30-2013, 03:57 PM
We are over 250 Big Y orders within L21 and that's not counting orders within the Irish, Scottish and Britain projects that will probably end up being L21's.

Dubhthach
11-30-2013, 04:34 PM
We are over 250 Big Y orders within L21 and that's not counting orders within the Irish, Scottish and Britain projects that will probably end up being L21's.

Gonna be a nice bump in their Q4 financial figures that's for sure!

-Paul
(DF41+)

Mikewww
11-30-2013, 04:40 PM
Gonna be a nice bump in their Q4 financial figures that's for sure!

-Paul
(DF41+)

I don't have any idea what their costs are but if you look at the pricing relative to the market and past products, I think they were just being extra aggressive with good timing for the Christmas season. In other words, especially with the extra quality processes they'll have to do, their revenue might be good but I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't going to make much profit out of this in the first cycle. I'm just speculating, but I am glad for competition as I think that has inspired them to be extra aggressive on pricing.

I'll say this much. It worked on me. I was going to wait and see, but the $200 difference in pricing is too much to pass up. I've been trained on buying for years by my wife to ... "buy now and save" to which I typically respond "all of these savings are killing me." :) Of course, then I nod and fork over the card or cash.

IrishTypeIII
11-30-2013, 11:35 PM
Two more for Big-Y that are L226+ ordered at the last minute!
Anderson 16274
McMahon 293008

Already ordered
Wright 25505
O'Brien 48596
Cannon N48596

With five in this cluster we should be able to make some progress.

Cheers
Dennis

IrishTypeIII
12-02-2013, 05:40 AM
Two more for Big-Y that are L226+ ordered at the last minute!
Anderson 16274
McMahon 293008

Already ordered
Wright 25505
O'Brien 48596
Cannon N48596

With five in this cluster we should be able to make some progress.

Cheers
Dennis

And one more L226 ....
Dunn 293338

Mikewww
12-02-2013, 10:48 PM
....
Already ordered
....
O'Brien 48596
Cannon N48596...

Dennis, I think the Cannon kit # was a mistaken copy. I can't find that kit # anywhere. Which Cannon ordered Big Y?

BTW, I missed more than I thought. I'm up to 323 Big Y orders for people I have in the R1b-L21_Haplotypes spreadsheet. You can see them in the next update. I feel like I'm doing a Florida recount. yikes!!!

Rory Cain
01-08-2014, 05:26 AM
I'm up to 323 Big Y orders for people I have in the R1b-L21_Haplotypes spreadsheet. You can see them in the next update. I feel like I'm doing a Florida recount. yikes!!!

Where and when can we see who the 323 Big Y orders include?

Mikewww
02-26-2014, 01:52 AM
Where and when can we see who the 323 Big Y orders include?
These are marked by "BY" in the relevant SNPs column of the R1b-L21_Haplotypes spreadsheet. You can autofilter (column heading drop down arrow select) on that column for contains "BY". You can also do the same for "G2" / Geno 2. You can do the same for "FG" and "C2" / Chromo 2 as well but I don't necessarily have their full test results integrated.

There have been other Big Y orders dribbling and drabbling in so we are somewhere north of 340 pending Big Y tests.

This is my last minute plea for Big Y people:
If you are L21 of any type, please join the R-L21 project immediately.
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/R-L21/

Even if you are M222+ or L1335+ or CTS4466+ and already in a sub of L21 project, if you have Big Y on order please join the master R-L21 project so we can see results as they come in. When we have to go search through myriad of projects (about 20 sub of L21 projects not including the Irish, Scots and Britain projects) we tend to miss some.

I will take a final snapshot of the R-L21 project Y DNA SNP report screen on Thursday and post it (full disclosure) so we'll have a stake in the ground before Big Y results start trickling in, flooding in, or whatever it is they will be doing.

I don't see how the Y DNA SNP report screen is going to hold lots of new SNPs unless they are filtering them down to some higher quality level, or filters out upstream SNPs (how do you figure that if you don't know the current haplogroup?), or filters to some phylogenetic uniqueness (how would they do that?).

This is probably the true box of chocolates situation. You don't know what you'll get until you open it. I guess its like legislation too.

rms2
03-02-2014, 06:24 PM
In trying to find the terminal SNP of a new R L21 and Subclades Project member with Big Y results, I noticed that DF13 is not recorded by that name but instead is CTS241. It occurred to me to check the ISOGG Tree for alternative SNP names and check some of them. That's how I discovered this man is CTS241+/DF13+. I might have missed something, but I could not find any other currently known major branch SNP downstream of DF13 for which he is positive. So, I guess he will have to await some Big Y sorting.

Project members are going to have to be somewhat proactive with their Big Y results and let me know when they find something significant that warrants moving them to another project category or creating a new category. There's a lot of new data coming in now; it will be easy to miss something, and there are a lot of project members.

jdean
03-02-2014, 06:37 PM
I'm really glad you pointed that out, I was a little perturbed when I couldn't find DF13 : )

rms2
03-02-2014, 07:02 PM
I'm really glad you pointed that out, I was a little perturbed when I couldn't find DF13 : )

DF41 isn't there either: it's CTS2501.

jdean
03-02-2014, 07:11 PM
DF41 isn't there either: it's CTS2501.

Funnily enough because of your previews post I just checked that out, do you get the feeling FTDNA are trying to confuse us : )

rms2
03-02-2014, 07:29 PM
Definitely. I do wish, though, that these scientists would get together and agree on a single naming convention.

When I have nothing better to do, trying to unravel the naming puzzle can be fun, but most of the time it's more like a hemorrhoid.

rms2
03-02-2014, 09:02 PM
Well, DF41 is included in the Big Y, after all. It appears there as CTS6581, which is the same SNP. CTS2501 is a different SNP but currently regarded as equivalent.

jdean
03-02-2014, 10:49 PM
Well, DF41 is included in the Big Y, after all. It appears there as CTS6581, which is the same SNP. CTS2501 is a different SNP but currently regarded as equivalent.

Twit that I am, I thought that's what you meant by your previous post : )

Looks like we'll have to be extra vigilant with BigY results !!!

rms2
03-03-2014, 01:03 PM
Well, I made it sound as if DF41 and CTS2501 were one and the same, but they are not. That was my fault, not yours. But CTS6581 is the same SNP as DF41 under a different name.

Mikewww
03-07-2014, 12:38 AM
We have 19 L21 Big Y files here. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...Big_Y_results/ I also have a U152 guy for baseline comparisons.

tbartold
03-07-2014, 12:53 AM
We have 19 L21 Big Y files here. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...Big_Y_results/ I also have a U152 guy for baseline comparisons.

That link doesn't appear to work for me. Maybe it's too long?

Mikewww
03-07-2014, 04:48 AM
That link doesn't appear to work for me. Maybe it's too long?

You have to have signed into yahoo and be a member of the R1b-L21-project yahoo group.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-L21-Project/files/Big_Y_results/

We have DF21, Z253, Z255, CTS4466, DF13*, DF63 and Z251 people so a fairly wide smattering. No L513, M222, DF49x, DF41 folks yet, though.

Mikewww
03-07-2014, 11:26 PM
You have to have signed into yahoo and be a member of the R1b-L21-project yahoo group.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-L21-Project/files/Big_Y_results/

We have DF21, Z253, Z255, CTS4466, DF13*, DF63 and Z251 people so a fairly wide smattering. No L513, M222, DF49x, DF41 folks yet, though.

More Big Y results just in. I'm in the process of uploading them but I think we'll have an L513+ and DF41+ person now, maybe an M222+ also.


EDIT: Now am I excited. My best match at 111 markers just came in. The raw results files aren't ready yet, just the filtered (by current haplotree) results to the project Y DNA SNP report screens. Since the haplotree is behind these views don't tell us much.

Mikewww
03-10-2014, 02:53 AM
The raw results files are available for this last Friday's new results. I can count 35 results for a fair cross-section of L21. For FTDNA to make their "by 3/28" time-line we'll need to see a much larger raft of results soon.

CTS4466 (4)
DF21 (4)
DF41 (2)
DF63 (2)
L513 (4)
L1335 (4)
M222 (3)
Z251 (2)
Z253 (4)
DF13x I think (4)
L21x maybe (2)

Mikewww
03-17-2014, 04:04 AM
39 L21+ individuals with Big Y raw results have been completed. We have over 300 to go. The raw results I'm referring to our downloadable .vcf (Variant Call Format) files.

There are 12,686 indivdual SNP derived results (calls) that appear to L21 equivalent or downstream and have passed the FTDNA criteria. Much deeper investigation is needed. I did not try to assess stability, true ancestral results, etc. Some of this will result in looking at the .bam files. I compared a U152+ L21- person and eliminated all of the novel SNP/variants that were shared with the U152+ person so as to remove upstream SNPs. There were over 200 SNPs that I removed.

These derived results cover 1,754 different SNPs/variants. 1,699 of these have no SNP labels that I can find in the ISOGG Ybrowse tool which has the largest database of Y SNPs that I know of. I'm still a bit leery of the terminology but I think these SNPs would be considered novel.

Essentially, I'm saying I think that out of just 39 individuals we have 1,699 new SNPs to evaluate.

There at least 10-15, maybe quite a few more (up to 100), that appear to be at older levels of the L21 tree. By that I mean, around DF13 or just below and to DF13's Big Ten subclades.

Even though at first glance, they seem less significant, I think the most important new SNPs will end up being the ones contained within the respective Big Ten subclades as well as paragroups. At this stage, with only a couple of individuals per major subclade, it is the SNPs that are only found in one or two individuals.

There are 72 novel SNPs in only three individuals.
There are 164 novel SNPs found in two individuals.
There are 1,265 novel SNPs found (only once so far) in single individuals. This is why having a couple of NGS tests (like Big Y) per cluster is important - to quickly sort out which are shared and which are true family and private SNPs.

I need to get the related spreadsheets posted but I need to work through an anonymous/privacy/permission process. The main thing is I wanted to get a "quick add/well automated" process before the next 300 Big y results hit. I think I have my spreadsheet set to be big enough but I will concede Robert C was very much correct when he has estimated the thousands of new SNPs we'd have evaluate.

I think this will overturn the tree as we know is. Perhaps the better word, is upstage. The era of using SNPs in genetic genealogy is upon us. The older banches, i.e. L21, DF13, DF49, L513, FGC5496, CTS4466, etc., etc. are still important, particularly understanding prehistory and deep ancestry, but I think they will be upstaged by a new set of SNPs and more youthful subclades more closely related to our genealogies.

jdean
03-18-2014, 11:48 AM
Cross posted from the DF49 (L21>DF13>DF49) & Subclades before M222 thread

We got two BigY results in for the DF49 project last night : )))))

Joyce, who has already tested Z2961+, M222-, is now also positive for Z2976 (AKA S476), Z2983, Z2985 & Z2986

Culver, who was DF13? until last night, is now DF49* from our current understand of the tree having also tested negative for Z2976

Both gents had a no call for Z2980 but I don't have enough time to investigate why at the mo.

jdean
03-18-2014, 01:55 PM
When the initial BigY results came out I tried to identify the 'Novel Variants' that were irrelevant by comparing three DF21 kits with three Z253.

Using this data and also comparing these 2 kits with each other leaves 45 in the DF49* kit and 32 in the Z2961 kit.

There were also four variants common to both kits which didn't turn up in an any of the DF21 or Z253 kits I used.

9227801 A T High
9316833 A G High
22319065 T C Medium
22319066 A T Medium


It'd be interesting to know if anybody's seen these reported elsewhere.

Also any thoughts on the last two being neighbours ?

MJost
03-18-2014, 04:53 PM
BigY region.bed file results crosschecked for DF13>FGC5496 subclade SNPs information posted here:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1817-FGC5496-(L21-gt-DF13-gt-FGC5496)-and-Subclades&p=34306&viewfull=1#post34306

MJost

OConnor
03-21-2014, 06:51 PM
Hi Mark

I got my BigY results the other day. I sent MikeW a facebook pm but no word back yet.
I'm just not sure how to proceed with my results. I am DF13*

Mike