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tewilder
11-13-2013, 08:17 PM
I've ordered the Big Y for kit f121153.

razyn
11-13-2013, 10:50 PM
I have a list of 17 of our DF27 haplogroup project members who have ordered Big Y. There may be a few other orders from guys who don't know (yet) that they are DF27. We shall see. I don't know the protocol for posting a list of them; seems to me there are privacy issues when the name is associated with the kit number, because then anybody can Google the number and pretty much find you. OK if you released that info yourself; not so good if I make the decision for you.

Anyway we have 17 reported so far, and they are well distributed among the subclades of DF27. We should be learning a lot when all these kits are through the mill.

TigerMW
11-14-2013, 12:29 AM
Please report in on DF27 people who are ordering Big Y. The project now knows about it via a broadcast email. I'll mark it in the R1b-P312xL21 spreadsheet in the future.

TigerMW
11-14-2013, 12:35 AM
I have a list of 17 of our DF27 haplogroup project members who have ordered Big Y. There may be a few other orders from guys who don't know (yet) that they are DF27. We shall see. I don't know the protocol for posting a list of them; seems to me there are privacy issues when the name is associated with the kit number....
Most people post the MDKA name and kit # which are public on the project screens. I would think that as long as the contact name and contact information type stuff isn't divulged we are okay. All I know that project administrators have been posting these kinds of lists. I just saw where the U106 guy are talking about "1-0". They might be nearing 100 on their list tracking. I just posted the L21. It's got 87 folks. I saw where one of the I1 groups has about 40.

razyn
11-14-2013, 05:28 AM
These are the DF27 project kits that I know of, that have Big Y tests ordered. The SNP shown at right is one for which they have already tested positive. I'm a little unclear on the concept of asterisks, especially after DF27 itself. Where I used one, they are at least negative/ancestral for some of the main testable options. New SNPs and tests are coming online pretty frequently this year, so I'm not sure anybody is entirely up-to-date. And if they are now, they won't be after these Big Y results come in:

26020 Howland L881
46281 McDonald L165
290717 Burness DF17
59497 Kennedy DF27*
234361 Campbell DF27*
95673 "Nick" Z225
28321 Pitts Z278
81973 Winter Z220
92933 Wilson DF27
N113329 Marimon CTS4299
307013 Smith M269 (member of DF27 project)
139250 Gilliland SRY2627
E11427 Canovas Z220
B2323 Gebault Z210
N34129 Boaz DF27
121153 Wilkinson L86.2
15364 Miller DF27*

razyn
11-15-2013, 05:51 AM
26020 Howland L881
46281 McDonald L165
290717 Burness DF17
59497 Kennedy DF27*
234361 Campbell DF27*
95673 "Nick" Z225
28321 Pitts Z278
81973 Winter Z220
92933 Wilson DF27
N113329 Marimon CTS4299
307013 Smith M269 (member of DF27 project)
139250 Gilliland SRY2627
E11427 Canovas Z220
B2323 Gebault Z210
N34129 Boaz DF27
121153 Wilkinson L86.2
15364 Miller DF27*

Add:
59598 Gillespie DF27*

Mark D
11-15-2013, 02:03 PM
I've ordered the Big Y test, kit #22555, although I'm sure it will show anything new. I had already tested positive for L147.3, downstream from L176.2, so I guess we'll see how far down this will go. The upload from Geno2 did not add anything. If anyone has any thoughts on this, I would appreciate reading them. Thanks.

TigerMW
11-15-2013, 05:42 PM
I've ordered the Big Y test, kit #22555, although I'm sure it will show anything new. I had already tested positive for L147.3, downstream from L176.2, so I guess we'll see how far down this will go. The upload from Geno2 did not add anything. If anyone has any thoughts on this, I would appreciate reading them. Thanks.
There is a good chance it will. L176.2 is fairly old so there are plenty of generations for SNPs to occur. Big Y is a bit different than Geno 2. Geno 2 only covered a specific subset of known (already discovered) SNPs. Big Y is a true discovery type of offering.

Mark, you must be N22555, right?

TigerMW
11-15-2013, 06:29 PM
These are the DF27 project kits that I know of, that have Big Y tests ordered. ....
Thanks, Dick. I recorded a column for this in my P312xL21 spreadsheet so we can pull it as needed. I also turned on the "new orders" notice for project administrators so I caught up on the most recent orders (in DF27 project only).

I count 20. I also counted Geno 2 completed results and see we have 92 of those.

fN34129 Boaz R1b-P312>DF27 d- uas
f234361 Campbell R1b-P312>DF27* d- uas
f15364 Miller R1b-P312>DF27* d- uas
f92933 Wilson R1b-P312>DF27 d-1017-Rox2-A
f59598 Gillespie R1b-P312>DF27* d-2023
f95673 Austin R1b-P312>DF27>Z225+ d225-229-9910
f59497 Kennedy R1b-P312>DF27** d-2521
f121153 Wilkinson R1b-P312>DF27>L86.2+ d-2521-862
f26020 Howland R1b-P312>DF27>L881+ d881-53711-2026
f290717 Burness R1b-P312>DF27>Z196>DF17+ dz17-1518
fN22555 Deutsch R1b-P312>DF27>Z196>L176.2 dz176-147
f46281 McDonald R1b-P312>DF27>Z196>L176.2>L165+ dz176-165-1220
fN113329 Marimon R1b-P312>DF27>Z196>L176.2>Z262>SRY2627>CTS8299>Z207>CTS4299+ dz176-262-SRY-10-742 -uas
f139250 Gilliland R1b-P312>DF27>Z196>L176.2>Z262>SRY2627 dz176-262-SRY-13-A
f307013 Smith zzP312suspect dz176-262-SRY-13-A
fN2876 Garcia R1b-P312>DF27>Z196>Z209>Z220 dz209-220- uas
f81973 Winter R1b-P312>DF27>Z196>Z209>Z220* dz209-220- uas
f28321 Pitts R1b-P312>DF27>Z196>Z209>Z220>Z216>Z278** dz209-220-216-8-A
fB2323 Gibault R1b-P312>DF27>Z196>Z209>Z220** dz209-220-C
fE11427 Canovas-Champagne, b. Longjueau, France (Spain?) R1b-P312>DF27>Z196>Z209>Z220** dz209-220-H

razyn
11-16-2013, 01:14 PM
Thanks, Dick. I recorded a column for this in my P312xL21 spreadsheet so we can pull it as needed...

I count 20.

This morning, add N113694 Pages SRY2627, CTS4299

And this afternoon, add 213936 Andrews Z198 (L176.2)

And tonight, add 110924 Clark Z225/Z229, F3867. There are wildly different interpretations of where these SNPs fit in the R1b phylogeny, depending on what chart one looks at. Chris Morley shows this kit as the only F3867 (annotated R for Repetitive marker) and places that under DF27; but has Z225/9 at the level of L11 (not under DF27, or even P312). The ISOGG tree has F3867.2 (whoever that may be) "under investigation" since March 20; Z225/9 are not on their tree. Mike's descendancy chart shows Z225 under DF27, where most of us have thought it belonged for the past two years.

Mark D
11-16-2013, 01:43 PM
There is a good chance it will. L176.2 is fairly old so there are plenty of generations for SNPs to occur. Big Y is a bit different than Geno 2. Geno 2 only covered a specific subset of known (already discovered) SNPs. Big Y is a true discovery type of offering.

Mark, you must be N22555, right?

Yes, I am. Thanks for your comment.

Quay dweller
11-17-2013, 10:26 PM
I'm undecided about whether to order the big Y test or not, mainly because I'm finding it really hard to find out what benefit it will provide. Currently I'm ordering the specific SNP tests from FTDNA, one at a time, after having done the Y-DNA37 test followed by the deep clade test. Not sure if the Geno 2 or Y-DNA111 test would be more useful than big Y. I'll be very interested if anyone has any thoughts.

TigerMW
11-17-2013, 10:53 PM
I'm undecided about whether to order the big Y test or not, mainly because I'm finding it really hard to find out what benefit it will provide. Currently I'm ordering the specific SNP tests from FTDNA, one at a time, after having done the Y-DNA37 test followed by the deep clade test. Not sure if the Geno 2 or Y-DNA111 test would be more useful than big Y. I'll be very interested if anyone has any thoughts.

It is a discovery test. We are attempting to discover SNPs pertintent to our lineages as well as identify which currently known SNPs we are positive for. In some ways, we won't know what we'll find out until we get there. It is definitely beneficial for as many DF27 people, including multiple people in your cluster and possible brother clusters. The reason I say that is because this is only useful if we can compare with other people. We need the database of people to match with. The more the merrier.

There is a bit of a chicken and egg thing to all of this. Others may be waiting to see who else is doing this. Someone has to go first. Those that do are our explorers and pioneers. Once something catches on though, it tends to grow. Right now within R1b-L21, we have 137 with Big Y on order. I don't really think L21 has more people that DF27, but L21 has been known for a while and had an earlier start.

There is another area of benefit to you in relationship to growing a database of people that might match with you. Even though, they are maligned sometimes (including by me), the National Genographic Project is a well-funded, high media presence scientific project. They test people world-wide in their research. They are partnered with FTDNA's laboratory. In other words the original Geno (1) and Geno 2.0 are run by FTDNA's lab. The SNPs in the Geno 2.0 package come from a variety of sources but a key source has been the Walk The Y's we've all done over the last couple of years.

It behooves each of us to get the SNPs in our lineages discovered now so they can be hopefully part of the next Geno 2 version, be it version 3 or whatever. The same goes for Chrome 3X or whatever, as they seem to catch up with the same SNP set.

What am I saying? .... We selfishly (correctly so) want our own SNP lineages in the next version of mass marketed low/moderate priced packages. That way, new people will "pop out of the woodwork" that have our youthful SNPs. Then we'll be making real progress. I've had several new people on my father's lineage pop out of the woodwork due to Geno 2 even though at first they had no STRs. I was thinking about that. Sometimes I forget that my kit # begins with an "N". I had no idea what FTDNA, 23andMe, EthnoAncestry, etc. were. Now, I have five kit #s (different lineages including Z220+) that I own and fund. It wouldn't have happened without Geno (1).

Quay dweller
11-17-2013, 11:40 PM
It is a discovery test. We are attempting to discover SNPs pertintent to our lineages as well as identify which currently known SNPs we are positive for. In some ways, we won't know what we'll find out until we get there. It is definitely beneficial for as many DF27 people, including multiple people in your cluster and possible brother clusters. The reason I say that is because this is only useful if we can compare with other people. We need the database of people to match with. The more the merrier.

There is a bit of a chicken and egg thing to all of this. Others may be waiting to see who else is doing this. Someone has to go first. Those that do are our explorers and pioneers. Once something catches on though, it tends to grow. Right now within R1b-L21, we have 137 with Big Y on order. I don't really think L21 has more people that DF27, but L21 has been known for a while and had an earlier start.

There is another area of benefit to you in relationship to growing a database of people that might match with you. Even though, they are maligned sometimes (including by me), the National Genographic Project is a well-funded, high media presence scientific project. They test people world-wide in their research. They are partnered with FTDNA's laboratory. In other words the original Geno (1) and Geno 2.0 are run by FTDNA's lab. The SNPs in the Geno 2.0 package come from a variety of sources but a key source has been the Walk The Y's we've all done over the last couple of years.

It behooves each of us to get the SNPs in our lineages discovered now so they thacan be hopefully part of the next Geno 2 version, be it version 3 or whatever. The same goes for Chrome 3X or whatever, as they seem to catch up with the same SNP set.

What am I saying? .... We selfishly (correctly so) want our own SNP lineages in the next version of mass marketed low/moderate priced packages. That way, new people will "pop out of the woodwork" that have our youthful SNPs. Then we'll be making real progress. I've had several new people on my father's lineage pop out of the woodwork due to Geno 2 even though at first they had no STRs. I was thinking about that. Sometimes I forget that my kit # begins with an "N". I had no idea what FTDNA, 23andMe, EthnoAncestry, etc. were. Now, I have five kit #s (different lineages including Z220+) that I own and fund. It wouldn't have happened without Geno (1).

Many thanks for your quick reply. I will probably go ahead and order the big y test. Will it be of any benefit, either to me or the project, to order the Y-DNA111 test as well, or will that just duplicate some of the big Y test? Please excuse me if that sounds like a silly question.

TigerMW
11-17-2013, 11:56 PM
Many thanks for your quick reply. I will probably go ahead and order the big y test. Will it be of any benefit, either to me or the project, to order the Y-DNA111 test as well, or will that just duplicate some of the big Y test? Please excuse me if that sounds like a silly question.

No, it is not silly. I have both Y STRs at 111 and now Big Y on order so I guess that is my answer. However, we just don't know what we'll find out. In some subclades, they have found unusual values (DYS643 comes to mind for DF5+) that give you two ways to find someone who fits in.

I like that TMRCA estimates are more accurate at 111 STRs so I don't think it is a bad thing no matter what. However, please don't break the bank. Do whatever is appropriate for your situation. That's your choice.

TigerMW
11-18-2013, 02:43 PM
Thanks, Dick. I recorded a column for this in my P312xL21 spreadsheet so we can pull it as needed. I also turned on the "new orders" notice for project administrators so I caught up on the most recent orders (in DF27 project only).

I count 20. I also counted Geno 2 completed results and see we have 92 of those.

I'm counting 25 now but I am missing 5 from the SRY2627 project. As soon as I can identify them, I'll update the tracking list.

razyn
11-18-2013, 07:02 PM
OK -- and since my last additions (in post #10) I see 107408 Roby (L176.2), 277935 Engle (DF27), 257615 Tran (DF17), and 234583 Dusswald (DF27).

Also 222095 van Tuyl (DF27*).

TigerMW
11-19-2013, 02:28 AM
Thanks, Dick. So that leaves us with the following, I think, 29 in all:

fN34129 Boaz d- uas
f234361 Campbell d- uas
f234583 Dusswald d- uas
f277935 Engle d- uas
f15364 Miller d- uas
f222095 Van Tuyl d- uas
f92933 Wilson d-1017-Rox2-A
f59598 Gillespie d-2023
f95673 Austin d225-229-9910
f110924 Clark d225-229-9910
f59497 Kennedy d-2521
f121153 Wilkinson d-2521-862
f26020 Howland d881-53711-2026
f290717 Burness dz17-1518
f257615 Tran dz17-1518
f213936 Andrews dz176- uas
f107408 Roby dz176- uas
fN22555 Deutsch dz176-147
f46281 McDonald dz176-165-1220
fN113329 Marimon dz176-262-SRY-10-742 -uas
fN113694 Pages dz176-262-SRY-10-A-1
f6723 Baker dz176-262-SRY-11-C
f139250 Gilliland dz176-262-SRY-13-A
f307013 Smith dz176-262-SRY-13-A
fN2876 Garcia dz209-220- uas
f81973 Winter dz209-220- uas
f28321 Pitts dz209-220-216-8-A
fB2323 Gibault dz209-220-C
fE11427 Canovas-Champagne dz209-220-H

razyn
11-20-2013, 01:02 PM
Added yesterday morning N1993 Mulvihill (DF17)
Added this morning B3142 Zúńiga (DF81)

TigerMW
11-20-2013, 01:24 PM
Added yesterday morning N1993 Mulvihill (DF17)
Added this morning B3142 Zúńiga (DF81)
Thanks. These guys are very important. This gives us comparisons between several early branching groups and will allow us to easily filter out a lot of SNPs that will be found upstream and then we can focus on just the relevant downstream SNPs.

I'd like to see us get each of the major subclades of DF27 covered with at least one test. Two per subclade/branch would be better because that would understand what SNPs are probably very recent, downstream SNPs.

razyn
11-22-2013, 12:53 AM
New since my last post, and I'll leave at least some of the subclade coding to Mike, because what comes out of his spreadsheet is further refined.

4897 Rice (unable to confirm DF27 w/o a test -- he opted for a big one)
99004 Davis (DF27)
125294 Marsh (L617)
145887 Marsh (L617)
118119 Parish (SRY2627)
33061 Chamberlain (DF27)
19783 Herrera (DF27)
N45914 surname not displayed in project (DF27)
36912 Spencer (SRY2627)
46662 Mendoza (P312)

I have heard that there are several more in the SRY2627 project, but I am not an admin there and don't get those notices.

razyn
11-23-2013, 03:32 PM
More Big Y orders:

97633 Parrish (SRY2627) NB, has also ordered Full Genomes Y sequence
11040 Johnson (DF27, Z196-)
63184 Skantz (Z220)
191730 Hubbard (DF27)
14416 Bailie (DF27, Z196-)
N4591 Kyd (DF27, Z196-)
N74772 Valle (Z220)
155150 Butler (DF27, Z196-)
255382 Gibson (DF27)
238779 Bowie (L165)
198624 Carroll (DF27)

From another source, non-DF27 project member 6723 Baker (SRY2627)

We also have a list of 100 people from the Scottish project who have ordered Big Y -- the person who provided the list had not screened it for DF27 people, and neither have I.

TigerMW
11-23-2013, 03:38 PM
...
We also have a list of 100 people from the Scottish project who have ordered Big Y -- the person who provided the list had not screened it for DF27 people, and neither have I.

When I get back home on Tuesday I'll check that list. I have that P312xL21 and L21 spreadsheets (at home) so I can just check each kit # for either list. I guess that'll take a few minutes... maybe I just do "ctrl-F" finds on the Y DNA SNP report from the Scottish project...

TR4321
11-25-2013, 04:22 PM
New since my last post, and I'll leave at least some of the subclade coding to Mike, because what comes out of his spreadsheet is further refined.

4897 Rice (unable to confirm DF27 w/o a test -- he opted for a big one)
99004 Davis (DF27)
125294 Marsh (L617)
145887 Marsh (L617)
118119 Parish (SRY2627)
33061 Chamberlain (DF27)
19783 Herrera (DF27)
N45914 surname not displayed in project (DF27)
36912 Spencer (SRY2627)
46662 Mendoza (P312)

I have heard that there are several more in the SRY2627 project, but I am not an admin there and don't get those notices.

I am 4897 Rice. I have confirmed I am DF27+ with a test specific for DF27+. I am waiting for results from the big one.


Tests Taken
CTS10168+, CTS10362+, CTS10834+, CTS109+, CTS11358+, CTS11468+, CTS11575+, CTS11726+, CTS11985+, CTS12478+, CTS125+, CTS12632+, CTS1996+, CTS2134+, CTS2664+, CTS3063+, CTS3135+, CTS3331+, CTS3358+, CTS3431+, CTS3536+, CTS3575+, CTS3654+, CTS3662+, CTS3868+, CTS3996+, CTS4244+, CTS4364+, CTS4368+, CTS4437+, CTS4443+, CTS4740+, CTS5318+, CTS5457+, CTS5532+, CTS5577+, CTS5884+, CTS6135+, CTS623+, CTS6383+, CTS6800+, CTS6907+, CTS7400+, CTS7659+, CTS7922+, CTS7933+, CTS8243+, CTS8591+, CTS8665+, CTS8728+, CTS8980+, CTS9828+, DF27+, F1046+, F115+, F1209+, F1302+, F1320+, F1329+, F1704+, F1714+, F1753+, F1767+, F1794+, F180+, F2048+, F2075+, F211+, F212+, F2142+, F2155+, F2302+, F2402+, F2587+, F2688+, F2710+, F2837+, F29+, F295+, F2985+, F2993+, F3111+, F313+, F3136+, F33+, F332+, F3335+, F344+, F3556+, F356+, F359+, F3692+, F378+, F4+, F47+, F506+, F556+, F63+, F640+, F647+, F652+, F671+, F719+, F82+, F83+, F93+, L11+, L132+, L15+, L150+, L151+, L16+, L23+, L265+, L278+, L350+, L388+, L389+, L407+, L468+, L470+, L471+, L478+, L482+, L483+, L498+, L500+, L502+, L506+, L51+, L52+, L566+, L585+, L721+, L747+, L752+, L754+, L761+, L768+, L773+, L774+, L779+, L781+, L82+, M139+, M168+, M207+, M235+, M294+, M343+, M415+, M42+, M45+, M526+, M89+, M94+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P14+, P141+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P151+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P225+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P232+, P233+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P240+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P295+, P297+, P310+, PAGES00083+, PF1016+, PF1029+, PF1031+, PF1040+, PF1046+, PF1061+, PF1092+, PF1097+, PF110+, PF1203+, PF1269+, PF1276+, PF15+, PF192+, PF210+, PF212+, PF223+, PF234+, PF258+, PF2591+, PF2593+, PF2599+, PF2600+, PF2608+, PF2611+, PF2615+, PF2624+, PF263+, PF2631+, PF2643+, PF272+, PF2745+, PF2747+, PF2748+, PF2749+, PF2770+, PF278+, PF292+, PF316+, PF325+, PF342+, PF500+, PF5465+, PF5466+, PF5468+, PF5471+, PF5851+, PF5853+, PF5854+, PF5865+, PF5869+, PF5871+, PF5882+, PF5886+, PF5887+, PF5888+, PF5953+, PF5956+, PF5957+, PF5964+, PF5965+, PF5982+, PF6007+, PF601+, PF6063+, PF6091+, PF6145+, PF6246+, PF6249+, PF6250+, PF6263+, PF6265+, PF6270+, PF6271+, PF6272+, PF6404+, PF6409+, PF6411+, PF6424+, PF6425+, PF6430+, PF6432+, PF6434+, PF6438+, PF6443+, PF6463+, PF6494+, PF6495+, PF6498+, PF6500+, PF6506+, PF6507+, PF6509+, PF6524+, PF667+, PF719+, PF720+, PF725+, PF779+, PF796+, PF803+, PF815+, PF821+, PF840+, PF844+, PF892+, PF937+, PF951+, PF954+, PF970+, s10+, s3+, V186+, V189+, V205+, V52+, V9+, YSC0000067+, YSC0000072+, YSC0000075+, YSC0000082+, YSC0000166+, YSC0000176+, YSC0000179+, YSC0000182+, YSC0000186+, YSC0000191+, YSC0000194+, YSC0000201+, YSC0000203+, YSC0000205+, YSC0000207+, YSC0000213+, YSC0000219+, YSC0000224+, YSC0000225+, YSC0000227+, YSC0000230+, YSC0000232+, YSC0000233+, YSC0000251+, YSC0000269+, YSC0000270+, YSC0000279+, YSC0000288+, YSC0000294+

razyn
11-26-2013, 01:36 PM
I am 4897 Rice. I have confirmed I am DF27+ with a test specific for DF27+. I am waiting for results from the big one.

OK, I moved 4897 Rice from group Ul1 to group Aa (DF27+, presumed Z196- because your Geno2 results don't show Z195+). There are those who wouldn't do that, but I disagree with them -- mainly because this manual grouping by admins is not set in stone, and it at least lets you see your haplotype near a bunch that are more similar to it than the random "ungrouped" set.

By the way, we are notified when guys in our project order SNP tests, but not when the results come in. Those just show up in your posted SNP results, and searching for them is a bit like comet hunting. (I don't do that, either.) Oddly enough, we do get notified as each panel of an STR test or upgrade is reported.

More Big Y orders:

33061 Chamberlain (DF27)
163269 Marsh (L617)
5928 Marsh (L617)
30333 Dick (DF27)
H1161 Roseberry (DF27*)
N107249 Dunsmore (DF27*)
118858 name not displayed (L617)
235308 Noble (DF83)
N93232 Royak (DF27*)
256685 Durkin (DF17)
154890 Linton (PF742)
259586 Allardyse (L176.2)

TigerMW
11-27-2013, 05:01 AM
Great job guys! I just counted 50 Big Y orders for DF27 people. That's pretty good given we weren't even a project a couple of months ago. There should be a lot to compare with. Anyone else who is considering Big Y should try to make up their minds. Wednesday, Nov. 27th at 5pm Central Time the FTDNA office will close through the weekend so if you need to talk to them to place an order or ask questions, this is it.

Here are two web pages at FTDNA you might find useful.

Understanding Big Y
http://www.familytreedna.com/faq/answers/default.aspx?faqid=27

Understanding Results: Y-DNA Single Nucleotide Polymorphism (SNP)
http://www.familytreedna.com/faq/answers.aspx?id=26

razyn
11-27-2013, 06:13 PM
I edited my last post after Mike posted, hope the last four get into the next Excel worksheet update -- and here are today's new ones:

E8202 Scholz (claims L1231, don't see it in the SNP results)
4354 Walden (DF83)
171839 Noble (L147.3)
26772 Hart (DF17)
128757 Hebert (DF27)
144416 Bailie (DF27*)

razyn
11-29-2013, 09:14 PM
And the next batch includes:

N88896 Dinsmore (DF27)
N3432 Menge (DF17)
E2318 Wangermez (SRY2627)
164633 Thompson (DF27)
271001 Halsall (L881)
N1903 surname not listed (DF27)
12856 McDonald (DF17)

214921 Dauben (DF27*) added in edit

Mark D
11-29-2013, 11:17 PM
I edited my last post after Mike posted, hope the last four get into the next Excel worksheet update -- and here are today's new ones:

E8202 Scholz (claims L1231, don't see it in the SNP results)
4354 Walden (DF83)
171839 Noble (L147.3)
26772 Hart (DF17)
128757 Hebert (DF27)
144416 Bailie (DF27*)

This is great. I just wanted to point out that my only compatriot at L147.3, 171839 Noble, signed up. I'm eager to see where under L176.2 this will relate to other new SNPs.

razyn
12-02-2013, 10:41 PM
These are all the rest (in the DF27 project) that made it by midnight, Dec. 1:

226682 Trail (L176.2)
148259 Jonsson (DF27, Z196-)
148469 Parker (Z220)
155630 López (Z220)
98943 Walker (DF27*)
101853 Burnett (DF27*)
29360 Anderson (Z278)

I just checked the FTDNA website for The Big Y, and sure enough, it's now $695. So, they weren't kidding about that.

If I counted right, this adds up to 86 tests we know about (and there are probably some we don't, but maybe not too many). The project appears to have 659 members, so 13% of the members have Big Y tests in the offing. I don't know if that compares favorably with other large and gung-ho haplogroup projects, such as those for I, J, R1a, U106, L21 or U152. But it's respectable. We should have a pretty good harvest of new SNPs, whenever the harvest time turns out to be.

TigerMW
12-06-2013, 08:18 PM
These are all the rest (in the DF27 project) that made it by midnight, Dec. 1:

226682 Trail (L176.2)
148259 Jonsson (DF27, Z196-)
148469 Parker (Z220)
155630 López (Z220)
98943 Walker (DF27*)
101853 Burnett (DF27*)
29360 Anderson (Z278)

I just checked the FTDNA website for The Big Y, and sure enough, it's now $695. So, they weren't kidding about that.

If I counted right, this adds up to 86 tests we know about (and there are probably some we don't, but maybe not too many). The project appears to have 659 members, so 13% of the members have Big Y tests in the offing. I don't know if that compares favorably with other large and gung-ho haplogroup projects, such as those for I, J, R1a, U106, L21 or U152. But it's respectable. We should have a pretty good harvest of new SNPs, whenever the harvest time turns out to be.

That's very good, especially for a relatively new project. Add this to the FG tests and we should have a lot to do. The group that has me floored, though, is DF19. About half the DF19 people ordered Big Y according to George R. He's quite a machine (that's a compliment.)

razyn
12-07-2013, 12:09 AM
And another one, today:

126811 Rogers (L617)

TigerMW
12-07-2013, 02:59 PM
....
If I counted right, this adds up to 86 tests we know about (and there are probably some we don't, but maybe not too many). ....

I just updated the R1b-P312xL21_Haplotypes spreadsheet and counted 82 Big Y orders within DF27 so I'm missing a few. What would be the best way to compare lists so I can see what I'm missing.

fN34129 Boaz d- uas
f101853 Burnett d- uas
f234361 Campbell d- uas
f7133 Chamberlain d- uas
f33061 Chamberlain d- uas
fN88896 Dinsmore d- uas
fN107249 Dinsmore d- uas
f234583 Dusswald d- uas
f277935 Engle d- uas
fN1903 Hankins d- uas
f11040 Johnson d- uas
f148259 Jonsson d- uas
fN4591 Kyd d- uas
f15364 Miller d- uas
fN45914 Ortiz d- uas
fH1161 Roseberry d- uas
f222095 Van Tuyl d- uas
f164633 Thompson d-1012
f98943 Walker d-1014
fE8202 Scholz d-1017-A
f92933 Wilson d-1017-Rox2-A
f19783 Herrera d-131414
f144416 Bailie d-191517
f59598 Gillespie d-2023
f95673 Austin d225-229-9910
f110924 Clark d225-229-9910
f155150 Butler d-2521
f198624 Carroll d-2521
f59497 Kennedy d-2521
f121153 Wilkinson d-2521-862
f128757 Desaulniers d-40612
f99004 Davis d-5311211
f4897 Rice d-5311211
f126811 Rogers d617- uas
f5928 Marsh d617-1212
f163269 Marsh d617-1212
f118858 Teague d617-1212
f214921 Dauben d-6171312
fB3142 Zúńiga d81-48714-38912
f4354 Walden d83- uas
f235308 Noble d83-43714-A
f30333 zzzUnk(Heath) d881-53711
f271001 Halsall d881-53711-2026
f26020 Howland d881-53711-2026
fN93232 Royak d-9916
f259586 Allardice dz- uas
f290717 Burness dz17-1518
f256685 Durkin dz17-1518
fN1993 Mulvihill dz17-1518
f257615 Tran dz17-1518
f12856 MacDonald dz17-1518-A
fN3432 Menge dz17-1518-A
f26772 Hart dz17-1518-B
f213936 Andrews dz176- uas
f107408 Roby dz176- uas
f226682 Trail dz176- uas
fN22555 Deutsch dz176-147
f171839 Noble dz176-147
f238779 Buie dz176-165-1220
f46281 McDonald dz176-165-1220
f36912 James dz176-262-SRY- uas
f154890 Linton dz176-262-SRY-10- uas
fN113329 Marimon dz176-262-SRY-10-742 -uas
f118119 Parish dz176-262-SRY-10-742-An
f97633 Parrish dz176-262-SRY-10-742-An
fN113694 Pages dz176-262-SRY-10-A-1
fE2318 Wangermez dz176-262-SRY-10-D
f6723 Baker dz176-262-SRY-11-C
f139250 Gilliland dz176-262-SRY-13-A
f307013 Smith dz176-262-SRY-13-A
f46662 Mendoza dz209- uas
f249537 Pastore dz209- uas
fN2876 Garcia dz209-220- uas
f155630 López dz209-220- uas
f148469 Parker dz209-220- uas
fN74772 Valle dz209-220- uas
f81973 Winter dz209-220- uas
f28321 Pitts dz209-220-216-8-A
f29360 Anderson dz209-220-216-8-D
fB2323 Gibault dz209-220-C
f63184 Skatnz(Tibirke) dz209-220-F
fE11427 Canovas-Champagne dz209-220-H

razyn
12-08-2013, 02:00 AM
I just updated the R1b-P312xL21_Haplotypes spreadsheet and counted 82 Big Y orders within DF27 so I'm missing a few. What would be the best way to compare lists so I can see what I'm missing.

I pasted your list into Word and changed the font, made it big enough to read, and searched on the numbers I had (in a little notebook, not the computer type). I get several differences. First one missing was 11/18.

257615 Tran DF17
125294 Marsh L617
145887 Marsh L617
63184 is listed, but I think Skantz is the spelling ("fort" in Danish, or whatever)
191730 Hubbard DF27
255382 Gibson DF27

That's five new ones, so I think our numbers agree at 87. Of course we've had a bunch of project joins, and some of them may have already ordered Big Y without our getting the notice at the time. And some few guys who don't yet know they are DF27 (so they aren't in our projects) will discover that, from their Big Y tests.

gogogenes
12-08-2013, 03:57 AM
That is an impressive list covering a broad swath of known subclades and speculative varieties within DF27. I am happy to see both DF81 and DF83 represented as those are the only tests keeping me from DF27** status (Kit #98943). I am in Mike's speculative variety 1014 with five men of Spanish descent.

I was hoping a couple more people in the Rox2 cluster might sign up as I see myself as an honorary member of that group. I only share two of the five Rox2 off modal markers but, considering that I am actually one step further off modal on two of the other three, it is possible that one of my paternal ancestors may have shared four of the five off modal markers shared by Rox2 members. Additionally, other than the two Puerto Rican men in my speculative group 1014, who probably descend from the same new world ancestor, my closest overall matches are to members of the Rox2 cluster.

I have high hopes that the BigY will add several layers to the phylogeny of DF27.

razyn
12-08-2013, 02:17 PM
I was hoping a couple more people in the Rox2 cluster might sign up as I see myself as an honorary member of that group... my closest overall matches are to members of the Rox2 cluster.

A couple of Rox2 guys have ordered the FGC "Comprehensive Y-Chromosome Sequencing" test. That's being reported (insofar as we hear about orders there) on a separate thread: http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?742-Full-Y-Chromosome-Sequencing-Phase-III-Pilot&p=20606&viewfull=1#post20606

razyn
12-13-2013, 06:53 PM
Another Big Y test ordered: 100750 MacNeil (L165)

razyn
01-02-2014, 12:42 AM
I made a note of this Dec. 27th, but have had company, and neglected to post it -- another new Big Y order:

N41015 Brown (DF27+, Z196-)

And a happy new year to all of you guys who are waiting for the results of these tests.

EastAnglian
01-03-2014, 09:45 AM
I made a note of this Dec. 27th, but have had company, and neglected to post it -- another new Big Y order:

N41015 Brown (DF27+, Z196-)

And a happy new year to all of you guys who are waiting for the results of these tests.

When do the first bunch of results start coming in?, I'm the Rogers (L617) order, should be very interesting. I think L617 will be getting a few brothers soon.

Edit: Okay don't worry, just read on FTDNA forums it will be the end of Feb for most, anyone know what format the data is being released in?

razyn
01-07-2014, 03:56 AM
Another new order for Big Y:

164690 Gonzales (DF27+, Z196- and numerous other ancestral results)

Quay dweller
01-13-2014, 12:26 AM
No, it is not silly. I have both Y STRs at 111 and now Big Y on order so I guess that is my answer. However, we just don't know what we'll find out. In some subclades, they have found unusual values (DYS643 comes to mind for DF5+) that give you two ways to find someone who fits in.

I like that TMRCA estimates are more accurate at 111 STRs so I don't think it is a bad thing no matter what. However, please don't break the bank. Do whatever is appropriate for your situation. That's your choice.

Thanks again for your advice. Funds being limited, I decided in the end to go for the Y-refine37to111 at this stage. Very grateful that so many of you guys have gone for the big y and looking forward to see what shows up. Hoping to play my part another time.

gmatthee
02-02-2014, 10:57 PM
Dear people,

I am DF2627 - L176.2+, SRY2627+, L159.2-, L165-, L21-, L257-

I live in The Netherlands and orded a test Z207 waiting for results.

greetings

razyn
02-03-2014, 01:46 PM
Latest reported Big Y order (Feb. 2, 2014) is:

259715 Heikki's son (R-M269 predicted, not yet confirmed DF27+ and is currently in Group Ul1)

razyn
02-04-2014, 11:21 PM
Another Big Y (Feb. 4, 2013):

305133 de Cloptunne (Z195+ and Z198+ [SRY2627])

Mark D
03-02-2014, 03:56 PM
Have any DF27s received Big Y results with the first release, Feb 28? I see some posts on other subclade forums discussing results.

Stephen Parrish
03-02-2014, 07:15 PM
Have any DF27s received Big Y results with the first release, Feb 28? I see some posts on other subclade forums discussing results.

Mark -

I have not seen any DF27+ Big Y results in the projects that I administer or co-administer.

Stephen

gogogenes
03-11-2014, 08:18 PM
Does anyone know whether either of the first 2 DF27 Big Y results are being compared with other results to find out which novel variants are possible new SNP's for DF27?

Gordon

razyn
03-12-2014, 12:02 AM
I don't know the answer to Gordon's question -- if so, it would involve raw data and results that I haven't seen. I haven't seen any evidence that the novel variants that are positive for these two guys are downstream from what we already knew.

But in other news pertinent to this thread, the first new order for Big Y test by a DF27 project member in over a month came in, today:

44097 Rucker (DF27+, in our Group A -- but appears closely related to 157507 in Group Aa, who has tested more SNPs).

gogogenes
03-12-2014, 02:42 AM
I don't know the answer to Gordon's question -- if so, it would involve raw data and results that I haven't seen. I haven't seen any evidence that the novel variants that are positive for these two guys are downstream from what we already knew.

But in other news pertinent to this thread, the first new order for Big Y test by a DF27 project member in over a month came in, today:

44097 Rucker (DF27+, in our Group A -- but appears closely related to 157507 in Group Aa, who has tested more SNPs).

Are you saying that you have seen their lists of novel variants and none of them are unique to DF27 vs. the other P312 groups?

razyn
03-12-2014, 02:50 PM
I have seen what FTDNA posts to the group, that's all. On any new ones, the only comparison available there is with each other. One was (previously) tested Z225+ and the other wasn't, otherwise they aren't apparently different (in their lists of novel variants that were reported as positive). So anything new is new to them both, and not yet obvious to me. That doesn't mean it isn't there, only that if visible it's undefined. We have nearly a hundred still in progress, and when a larger sample is reported the data will sort a lot better.

gogogenes
03-12-2014, 03:59 PM
Thanks Dick. I have noticed that there are others who have been comparing the novel variants between R1a and R1b as well as between different P312 groups such as L21 and DF19. I don't imagine that there are many DF19 samples out there so I didn't think it was necessary to have multiple samples to start comparing between the other P312 results. I expect that my results will be one of the last to return as I didn't order until the second to last day of the sale and therefore I am sure someone will have worked out comparisons between the DF27 groups before then. I guess I am hoping that, since this is the results thread for DF27, that some anthrogenica members will start to publish their lists of novel variants so that people like you and I can start scanning for positions that differ between our project members after eliminating the ones that are common to other P312 groups.

razyn
03-18-2014, 03:01 AM
I just saw a post on the RootsWeb Genealogy-DNA list to the effect that one of the L617+ samples has received his BigY results. A.J. Marsh says it's one of his relations, I believe two or more were tested.

Editing: the Marsh whose results have come in does not appear to be a member of the R1b-DF27 haplogroup project. (A number of the members of their surname project tested.) But I now see results for 7 of our listed Big Y testers:

Clark 110924 (Z225)
Hart 26772 (DF17)
Boaz N34129 (DF17)
Menge N3432 (DF17)
Mueller 15364 (Z196-)
Austin 95673 (Z196-)
Van Tuyl 222095 (Z196-)

breckenheimer
03-18-2014, 03:18 AM
My Big Y results from batch 544 came in today. Over 600 named SNPs on the Y tree and 90 novel variants.

John Marsh
03-18-2014, 07:32 AM
Razyn,

There are 8 L617+ people who have tested Big Y, not all are in the DF27 project, but a selection are in the DF27 project. I can't make the only result we have so far public, but I have sent Mike some information privately which might help him sort out the earlier mutations behind the scenes. There is also another key L617 person ordering Big Y.

I don't have data with me at the moment, but from memory the L617+ result had 603 known SNPs reported positive, and 92 novel variants reported. Of the 92 novel variants, 38 were shared with a person in my project who is L21+. It will be interesting to see which variants are shared with other DF27 people.

I found it curious comparing the L617 result with the L21 result. My first impression is that the different results may have had stronger coverage in different areas, either that or the different subclades had different hotspot zones for mutations. I have not checked this out very carefully yet, and may not have much time to look at this in the next few days or week.

John Marsh

rootsclark
03-19-2014, 07:58 PM
My Big-Y results have come in (110924 - Z225). I am positive for the following known but unclassified SNPs: CTS358, CTS1169, CTS1795, CTS2619, CTS2626, CTS2636, CTS2637, CTS2638, CTS2639, CTS2663, CTS2664, CTS2988, CTS2992, CTS3063, CTS3067, CTS3231, CTS3316, CTS3475, CTS3575, CTS3622, CTS3625, CTS3649, CTS3650, CTS3697, CTS3775, CTS3813, CTS6985, CTS7275, CTS8001, CTS8127, CTS8350, CTS8507, CTS8508, CTS8896, CTS9733, F1343, L104, L105, L108, L110, L113, L114, PF5888, PF5889, PF6455, PF682, YSC0000057, YSC0000077, YSC0000081, YSC0000107, YSC0000108, YSC0000109, YSC0000110, YSC0000193.

CTS7275 & CTS358 may be upstream, since I understand that someone (217453) who is U152 is positive for those SNPs. Of course the others may be upstream as well.

TigerMW
03-19-2014, 08:16 PM
My Big-Y results have come in (110924 - Z225). I am positive for the following known but unclassified SNPs: CTS358, CTS1169, CTS1795, CTS2619, CTS2626, CTS2636, CTS2637, CTS2638, CTS2639, CTS2663, CTS2664, CTS2988, CTS2992, CTS3063, CTS3067, CTS3231, CTS3316, CTS3475, CTS3575, CTS3622, CTS3625, CTS3649, CTS3650, CTS3697, CTS3775, CTS3813, CTS6985, CTS7275, CTS8001, CTS8127, CTS8350, CTS8507, CTS8508, CTS8896, CTS9733, F1343, L104, L105, L108, L110, L113, L114, PF5888, PF5889, PF6455, PF682, YSC0000057, YSC0000077, YSC0000081, YSC0000107, YSC0000108, YSC0000109, YSC0000110, YSC0000193.

CTS7275 & CTS358 may be upstream, since I understand that someone (217453) who is U152 is positive for those SNPs. Of course the others may be upstream as well.

Thank you for the update, rootsclark. You are right on track. We need to compare a U152+ person with you and eliminate all of the derived (positive) variants that are shared between you and he. In my L21 runs, that usually reduces the number of derived variants in the .vcf file (SNPs but they might not all be true SNPs) from around 300 to just under 200.

razyn
03-21-2014, 07:23 PM
We have had a transfer-in today of Big Y results for a new DF27 project member, Franklin 310454 (SRY2627+). This is one of the numerous cases in which someone took the Big Y test, but we didn't know about the order because he wasn't a member of a project we monitor.

TigerMW
03-21-2014, 08:09 PM
We have had a transfer-in today of Big Y results for a new DF27 project member, Franklin 310454 (SRY2627+). This is one of the numerous cases in which someone took the Big Y test, but we didn't know about the order because he wasn't a member of a project we monitor.

Just a heads up. I just made some movements in the R1b gateway project. That's why Franklin showed up.

razyn
03-28-2014, 10:06 PM
DF27 project has had another transfer in of Big Y results, Halsell 42127.

On reflection, I can now see 23 Big Y results in the project, scattered from some of the earliest orders to a few quite recent ones. One test came back L21 (259715 Heikki's son); quite a few still have the same classification they had before testing -- but that's before their raw data have been uploaded to the R1b-DF27 Yahoo group's files and compared. Some new SNPs are turning up; it's just hard to tell whether they are up or down the tree from what was already known, until we get more samples compared.

gogogenes
03-29-2014, 06:16 PM
My results came in last night while on the ferry over to Vancouver Island (kit #98943). I currently have a weak connection and since installing updates a couple weeks ago I have been getting constant "blue screen" crashes so I will have to wait until the middle of next week to upload to our yahoo group files.

I have 83 novel variants, 80 with high confidence. Can anyone tell me the positions of DF81 and DF83? they are the only SNP's keeping me from DF27** status (until all the new SNP's are sorted).

gogogenes
03-29-2014, 06:40 PM
Never mind, figured it out. Forgot to select "show all" for derived results. Negative for DF81 & DF83.

gogogenes
03-29-2014, 07:02 PM
I managed to upload my results after all. Can't wait to see the head to head comparisons with other DF27's.

corner
03-29-2014, 07:16 PM
I managed to upload my results after all. Can't wait to see the head to head comparisons with other DF27's.
Hello gogogenes, good to hear a DF27** has Big Y results, hopefully your asterisk won't be there long. 80 novel variants sound promising.

razyn
03-29-2014, 07:59 PM
OK, I moved you to group Aaa in the project. There are now four guys with Big Y results in there, but not yet in the Excel file (in the Yahoo group) that I've noticed. It seems to grow almost daily, though.

GoldenHind
04-03-2014, 11:24 PM
Can anyone tell me whether DF27 itself is included in the Big Y?

gogogenes
04-03-2014, 11:48 PM
It is in the list of known SNP's but it did not read it in my kit. It only shows a "?" in my Derived column.

gogogenes
04-03-2014, 11:51 PM
I just looked at David Carlisle's comparison spreadsheet in the DF27 Yahoo group and none of the 13 show DF27 so it looks like the answer is no.

John G
04-13-2014, 03:13 PM
My Big-Y results have come in (110924 - Z225). I am positive for the following known but unclassified SNPs: CTS358, CTS1169, CTS1795, CTS2619, CTS2626, CTS2636, CTS2637, CTS2638, CTS2639, CTS2663, CTS2664, CTS2988, CTS2992, CTS3063, CTS3067, CTS3231, CTS3316, CTS3475, CTS3575, CTS3622, CTS3625, CTS3649, CTS3650, CTS3697, CTS3775, CTS3813, CTS6985, CTS7275, CTS8001, CTS8127, CTS8350, CTS8507, CTS8508, CTS8896, CTS9733, F1343, L104, L105, L108, L110, L113, L114, PF5888, PF5889, PF6455, PF682, YSC0000057, YSC0000077, YSC0000081, YSC0000107, YSC0000108, YSC0000109, YSC0000110, YSC0000193.

CTS7275 & CTS358 may be upstream, since I understand that someone (217453) who is U152 is positive for those SNPs. Of course the others may be upstream as well.

I have been looking at my Big Y results and playing with the MorleyDNA part of the Chrome add-on. It suggests terminal sub-clades.

The ‘most likely’ is R1b P-312 and I have tested positive for DF27, so that would be my most likely sub-clade.

One of the other options suggested is R1b CTS358 aka R1b CTS7275 aka R1b CTS8127. This is under (in Morley’s experimental tree, not ISOGG) U152, which I am negative for.

But the line labelled R1b1a2a1a2b1a1~3 I am positive for 4 of the listed SNPs: CTS358,CTS7275,CTS8127 and YSC0000081. (and negative for a couple and not tested for a couple)

John G
04-13-2014, 03:52 PM
My Big-Y results have come in (110924 - Z225). I am positive for the following known but unclassified SNPs: CTS358, CTS1169, CTS1795, CTS2619, CTS2626, CTS2636, CTS2637, CTS2638, CTS2639, CTS2663, CTS2664, CTS2988, CTS2992, CTS3063, CTS3067, CTS3231, CTS3316, CTS3475, CTS3575, CTS3622, CTS3625, CTS3649, CTS3650, CTS3697, CTS3775, CTS3813, CTS6985, CTS7275, CTS8001, CTS8127, CTS8350, CTS8507, CTS8508, CTS8896, CTS9733, F1343, L104, L105, L108, L110, L113, L114, PF5888, PF5889, PF6455, PF682, YSC0000057, YSC0000077, YSC0000081, YSC0000107, YSC0000108, YSC0000109, YSC0000110, YSC0000193.

CTS7275 & CTS358 may be upstream, since I understand that someone (217453) who is U152 is positive for those SNPs. Of course the others may be upstream as well.

After checking my results, I am positive for all on this list with the following exceptions:
CTS8001 No(-)
F1343 No(-)
L1113 No(-)
L1114 No(-)
PF682 ?
CTS11169 ?
CTS2619 ?

And I am Z225 -

GoldenHind
04-14-2014, 07:45 PM
I just looked at David Carlisle's comparison spreadsheet in the DF27 Yahoo group and none of the 13 show DF27 so it looks like the answer is no.

I have looked at the Big Y results for two R1b-P312 people whose results I have access to. Neither of them has any result for either DF27 or Z196. Both are negative for Z195. It appears to me that the Big Y is unable to identify those who are DF27+ Z195-.

John Marsh
04-15-2014, 05:15 AM
I have now received Big Y results for 8 people who are DF27+ and L617+. All have the following mutations which are presumed to be approximately between L617 and DF27. Some of these may show up in other DF27 subclades. I have been unable to access the DF 27 results files at the Yahoo group on my ancient computer with outdated software. What would have been useful is a search engine which could search all of the uploaded files of novel variants for matches such as on the listed markers below, which are old enough to be potentially useful branch points. Is there any search engine feature which can search all uploaded files in a single process? If not, could some separate system be set up just for novel variant files for DF27 people which could be search by a search engine?

John.

15407374

17506827

19321347

23387829

28792932

6891098

9239350

WayOut West
04-15-2014, 08:25 AM
Hi, All

I'm 209708 and currently a member of the DF27 project.

I'm thinking about BIG Y and happened to stumble across this site, quite by accident. Now I can't help lurking, so I thought I'd pipe up.

L150+, L176.2+, M269+, Z198+, Z1981-, CTS4188-, L147-, SRY2627-, L238-, Z262-, Z278-, L196-, L188-, L1-, L144-, L148-, L159.2-, L164-, L165-

This mixed set of results so far has me kinda in the middle of no where. Do you learned people think I would benefit any from doing this somewhat pricey test?

Your answer WILL sway me either way!

Cheers

John G
04-15-2014, 12:12 PM
I have now received Big Y results for 8 people who are DF27+ and L617+. All have the following mutations which are presumed to be approximately between L617 and DF27. Some of these may show up in other DF27 subclades. I have been unable to access the DF 27 results files at the Yahoo group on my ancient computer with outdated software. What would have been useful is a search engine which could search all of the uploaded files of novel variants for matches such as on the listed markers below, which are old enough to be potentially useful branch points. Is there any search engine feature which can search all uploaded files in a single process? If not, could some separate system be set up just for novel variant files for DF27 people which could be search by a search engine?

John.

15407374

17506827

19321347

23387829

28792932

6891098

9239350

There was a note on the FTDNA Forum that they may be working on some match and search tools. Otherwise, we could create a shared spreadsheet somewhere and search it.

razyn
04-15-2014, 08:48 PM
Do you learned people think I would benefit any from doing this somewhat pricey test?

I haven't seen your kit number crop up in the DF27 Yahoo group. It's referenced on the start page of the FTDNA project. The discussion and advice there (for better and worse) is pretty wide ranging, including test results from other companies. It looks to me as if you've pretty well run the table on single FTDNA SNP tests under L176.2/Z198. But there may be some joy in Chromo2, they seem to be finding new subclades to explore. (One way to explore them is by ordering new Chromo2 SNPs from YSEQ.) And the comparisons of Big Y results (only a few so far from L176.2 guys), found in the Files area of the Yahoo group, are very useful -- if you can figure out how to use them.

ArmandoR1b
04-15-2014, 09:21 PM
Hi, All

I'm 209708 and currently a member of the DF27 project.

I'm thinking about BIG Y and happened to stumble across this site, quite by accident. Now I can't help lurking, so I thought I'd pipe up.

L150+, L176.2+, M269+, Z198+, Z1981-, CTS4188-, L147-, SRY2627-, L238-, Z262-, Z278-, L196-, L188-, L1-, L144-, L148-, L159.2-, L164-, L165-

This mixed set of results so far has me kinda in the middle of no where. Do you learned people think I would benefit any from doing this somewhat pricey test?

Your answer WILL sway me either way!

Cheers

So far I think the jury is still out. It seems there are still a lot of people waiting for results and others that still need to upload to the Yahoo DF27 group files section.

Up to now, there isn't anyone else from your group L. L176.2+ or Z198+ SRY2627- L165- Z262- CTS4188- from the SRY2627/L176.2/Z198 Project that is included in the spreadsheet by David Carlisle in the files section of https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-DF27-Project/files

The other two in your group would also have to also get the BigY or FGC test to see if there is a coincidence in markers with you that aren't shared by other L176.2+ BigY participants. You could wait a bit longer to find out if they have tested or you can test now and hope that if they haven't tested that they will soon.

One of the people in your group tested with Geno 2.0 and that person shows to be positive for markers CTS10855 and CTS7095 which are below L176.2. The only place that I can find for you to test for those markers is with Geno 2.0 so that is another option. Those SNP tests aren't available with FTDNA or Yseq.net.

edit: After seeing Razyn's post I verified that CTS10855 does report in the Chromo2 test by downloading a Chromo2 file from the DF27 Yahoo group and searching for that SNP. It does not report CTS7095 unfortunately. That test is probably the best option at the moment due to all of the factors involved.

razyn
04-15-2014, 09:47 PM
One of our Big Y testers, kit B2323, was able to verify S21184 in his "variants.vcf" file. This is a new SNP under Z220 that is mutually exclusive with Z295 (parent of both of the previously known large branches, in shorthand the "Z216" and the "CTS4065" groups). It was recognized in the 2000 Chromo2 results (and seems to have at least one subclade). At the moment we don't know which of our Z220 members may already have tested for it on the Chromo2 chip, since those results aren't necessarily reported to us. Anyway, I've created Group Baa for S21184, and will submit the request for that SNP test at FTDNA. It can currently be tested at YSEQ.

DavidCar
04-16-2014, 09:44 PM
I have now received Big Y results for 8 people who are DF27+ and L617+. All have the following mutations which are presumed to be approximately between L617 and DF27. Some of these may show up in other DF27 subclades. I have been unable to access the DF 27 results files at the Yahoo group on my ancient computer with outdated software. What would have been useful is a search engine which could search all of the uploaded files of novel variants for matches such as on the listed markers below, which are old enough to be potentially useful branch points. Is there any search engine feature which can search all uploaded files in a single process? If not, could some separate system be set up just for novel variant files for DF27 people which could be search by a search engine?

John.

15407374

17506827

19321347

23387829

28792932

6891098

9239350

Perhaps you need to register with the Yahoo group or have a Yahoo Mail account. Or perhaps someone else could upload your files.

Of the seven locations you listed, 28792932 and 9239350 appear randomly across different kits. The others don't match anyone on my list.

Armenis
04-18-2014, 04:57 AM
My Big-Y results have come in (110924 - Z225). I am positive for the following known but unclassified SNPs: CTS358, CTS1169, CTS1795, CTS2619, CTS2626, CTS2636, CTS2637, CTS2638, CTS2639, CTS2663, CTS2664, CTS2988, CTS2992, CTS3063, CTS3067, CTS3231, CTS3316, CTS3475, CTS3575, CTS3622, CTS3625, CTS3649, CTS3650, CTS3697, CTS3775, CTS3813, CTS6985, CTS7275, CTS8001, CTS8127, CTS8350, CTS8507, CTS8508, CTS8896, CTS9733, F1343, L104, L105, L108, L110, L113, L114, PF5888, PF5889, PF6455, PF682, YSC0000057, YSC0000077, YSC0000081, YSC0000107, YSC0000108, YSC0000109, YSC0000110, YSC0000193.

CTS7275 & CTS358 may be upstream, since I understand that someone (217453) who is U152 is positive for those SNPs. Of course the others may be upstream as well.

I am positive for CTS358, CTS1795, CTS2626, CTS2636, CTS2637, CTS2638, CTS2639, CTS2663, CTS2664, CTS2988, CTS2992, CTS3063, CTS3231, CTS3316, CTS3474, CTS3575, CTS3622, YSC0000081 etc.. I stopped checking as it's evident I'm positive for all if not most of these SNPs.

Regarding CTS7275 and CTS358 ... these were first found in a L20+ individual together with YSC0000081 and a few other SNPs.
Recent Big Y results by L2+ individuals (myself & at least another 2) have shown to be positive for these SNPs.

John G
04-19-2014, 12:00 PM
I am positive for CTS358, CTS1795, CTS2626, CTS2636, CTS2637, CTS2638, CTS2639, CTS2663, CTS2664, CTS2988, CTS2992, CTS3063, CTS3231, CTS3316, CTS3474, CTS3575, CTS3622, YSC0000081 etc.. I stopped checking as it's evident I'm positive for all if not most of these SNPs.

Regarding CTS7275 and CTS358 ... these were first found in a L20+ individual together with YSC0000081 and a few other SNPs.
Recent Big Y results by L2+ individuals (myself & at least another 2) have shown to be positive for these SNPs.

I am positive for CTS7275, CTS358, YSC0000081, ... I am L20-, L2?, and DF27+ (by separate test)

DavidCar
04-22-2014, 05:38 PM
There's a BigY InDel at 21033703 that appears to be equivalent to Z196. When I search yBrowse for z196 I don't get a sub entry, but the number that is returned is 21033704-21033705.

Also Parrish and Pages (SRY2627) share indels at:

17106156
17711616
18872248
21216946

Stephen Parrish
04-23-2014, 11:31 AM
There's a BigY InDel at 21033703 that appears to be equivalent to Z196. When I search yBrowse for z196 I don't get a sub entry, but the number that is returned is 21033704-21033705.

Also Parrish and Pages (SRY2627) share indels at:

17106156
17711616
18872248
21216946

David -

One of my Full Genomes files places Z196+ = S355+ at position 21033703, mutating from CAT in FGC's reference sequence to C.

I will look at the indels that you mentioned.

Stephen

Postscript: an FTDNA forum post that came to my attention this morning mentioned that one of my FGC novel variants (FGC11224+ at position 7750789) appears as follows: 7750789A>T in a DF13+ individual and 7750789A>G in an L1335+ individual.

DavidCar
04-23-2014, 10:07 PM
David -

One of my Full Genomes files places Z196+ = S355+ at position 21033703, mutating from CAT in FGC's reference sequence to C.

I will look at the indels that you mentioned.

Stephen

Postscript: an FTDNA forum post that came to my attention this morning mentioned that one of my FGC novel variants (FGC11224+ at position 7750789) appears as follows: 7750789A>T in a DF13+ individual and 7750789A>G in an L1335+ individual.

I see that's what it is in the Pages file, 21033703 CAT -> C. I'll have to make a note of that.

DavidCar
04-26-2014, 09:45 PM
There appears to be a new group under Z198 - ZS312, parallel with L147 and Z262. The group is found in BigY kits 213936 and 226682. The three SNPs in common are 7830636, 9372135 and 17919294. However one of those, 9372135 is showing up randomly in two U106 kits so that one may not be reliable.

John G
05-01-2014, 01:23 PM
I am positive for CTS7275, CTS358, YSC0000081, ... I am L20-, L2?, and DF27+ (by separate test)

By David's most recent spreadsheet in the DF27 project all kits uploaded are positive for CTS358.

DavidCar
05-27-2014, 11:22 PM
There appears to be a new group under Z198 - ZS312, parallel with L147 and Z262. The group is found in BigY kits 213936 and 226682. The three SNPs in common are 7830636, 9372135 and 17919294. However one of those, 9372135 is showing up randomly in two U106 kits so that one may not be reliable.

ZS312 is not suitable for testing, YSEQ says:

ZS312: 98.2% similar to ChrY:23717005..23718005 and ChrY:24019430..24020430. SNP isn't recommended.

Correction to initial post: ZS312 is parallel with L165 and CTS4188, and above L147 and Z262.

So, if ZS312 is 98% similar to two other locations, is the ZS312 showing up in BigY real? or is the result really coming from one of those other locations?

Stephen Parrish
05-28-2014, 12:03 PM
ZS312 is not suitable for testing, YSEQ says:

ZS312: 98.2% similar to ChrY:23717005..23718005 and ChrY:24019430..24020430. SNP isn't recommended.

Correction to initial post: ZS312 is parallel with L165 and CTS4188, and above L147 and Z262.

So, if ZS312 is 98% similar to two other locations, is the ZS312 showing up in BigY real? or is the result really coming from one of those other locations?

David -

ZS312+ at position 9142914, also known as M7953+ and Y964+, appears in my Full Genomes results.

Stephen

DavidCar
05-29-2014, 02:52 AM
If ZS312 appears consistently in BigY and FGC, but YSEQ does not recommend a Sanger test, can ZS312 still be put into the ISOGG tree?

Stephen Parrish
05-29-2014, 10:30 AM
If ZS312 appears consistently in BigY and FGC, but YSEQ does not recommend a Sanger test, can ZS312 still be put into the ISOGG tree?

David -

Yes, ZS312 could still be placed on ISOGG's tree, according to ISOGG's listing criteria: http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_SNP_Requirements.html

Stephen

Stephen Parrish
11-02-2014, 05:48 PM
ZS312 is not suitable for testing, YSEQ says:

ZS312: 98.2% similar to ChrY:23717005..23718005 and ChrY:24019430..24020430. SNP isn't recommended.

Correction to initial post: ZS312 is parallel with L165 and CTS4188, and above L147 and Z262.

So, if ZS312 is 98% similar to two other locations, is the ZS312 showing up in BigY real? or is the result really coming from one of those other locations?

Update: It appears that R-ZS312 and R-Z292 (upstream from R-Z262) are phylogenetically equivalent.

razyn
11-14-2014, 02:17 PM
Yesterday I got interested in the fact that only a little over half of the DF27 project members with Big Y test results in hand have joined the DF27 Yahoo group and uploaded their raw data to the Files area, where the serious (comparative) analysis is happening. The most recent version of David Carlisle's spreadsheet there includes 90 samples, 77 of whom are project members. (The other 13 are presumably Yahoo group members, but haven't joined the R1b-DF27 project itself. They have been recruited from surname and geographical projects -- or the haplogroup projects of various DF27 subclades.) But 68 more members of the DF27 project have received their Big Y results; and another 13 have the test "in progress," at various stages.

I suspect that most of these guys have no idea that there is a Yahoo group. Once we have joined a project -- or (especially) have been added to it, in a bulk transfer from P312 -- how likely are we to read the project introductory verbiage carefully, and follow its good advice? Apparently, the odds are about even. I also noticed that a large proportion of the kits that aren't represented in the Yahoo group have non-USA addresses. Besides getting a head count, I was compiling a list of their email addresses. I expect we'll be doing a little recruitment, before long. I'd even use the word "proactive," if I thought that was an actual word.

GoldenHind
01-20-2015, 07:37 PM
Can anyone tell me whether DF27 per se is tested in the Big Y now that FTDNA has finally added it to their new tree?

I know that DF27 was not included at least in the reported results in Big Y tests previously, though I am not certain whether it is included in the raw data.

There are quite a few people who have done the Big Y with no positive result below P312. My guess is that nearly all of them are DF27+ Z195-.

razyn
01-20-2015, 11:24 PM
I don't think Big Y can pick it up. It appears to me that the people who now have DF27 in green on their Haplotree display had tested it as an advanced SNP, separately from Big Y (if any). Maybe it turns green by default, now, for people who have tested a terminal SNP downstream from it. Some of the more annoying suggestions (blue "add" buttons) for further testing have gone away. Not all... especially in cases of SNPs that used to have a decimal point and it has just vanished.

I think I'll be reorganizing the DF27 project before much longer; almost all of the subclades that aren't Z195+ are going to be ZZ12+. Many subclades of the latter, and several of the former, have been discovered within the past year and are poorly sorted at present. One DF27 subclade that apparently is neither Z195+ nor ZZ12+ is L617. If there are others, I haven't noticed; but it's a pretty recent interest, and I'm not ready to shift everybody just yet.

ALEXANDRINA
02-21-2015, 01:50 PM
Is there an Admin here who can please explain the results for your DF27 Group S:
S. T15670124G (R1b-P312>DF27>15670124, T -> G); also G9494339A and A8706187C

Kits 279957 and 107453 (Douglas & Sutherland progenitors)

A member of this Group S is in a Surname project of which I am Administrator; I have been helping him with FTDNA help-desk re the failure of DF27 to return with his Big Y result. The member ordered DF27 as a stand alone test as well 3 months earlier than Big Y was ordered, however that result has not yet returned either. Batched 9th October BATCH 591 from memory. We have had rotten luck trying to get advanced SNP results for our P312 members suspected to be positive for DF27. I am hoping that you can enlighten me as to how it is that you have received a result of DF27+ for this Kit- 279957 when Big Y has failed to report his DF27 result? Is there something in the BAM file that points to this designation? Or perhpas you are grouping him there due to the fact that other Douglas men that he matches (he is a Sutherland) are positive for DF27; which I thoroughly understand. I see you have listed the mutations which they seemingly share.

The member is Z196 negative (Z196-) . Currently I am involved in research with other Admins researching the common progenitor of 3 Scottish Clans. The results for this member's Kit: 107453 and their many many matches at FTDNA within their 2 surnames is extremely important for our research. Could you please let me know the answers to the above when you get the chance.

Thank you
A.

razyn
02-21-2015, 11:23 PM
Is there an Admin here who can please explain the results for your DF27 Group S:
S. T15670124G (R1b-P312>DF27>15670124, T -> G); also G9494339A and A8706187C

Kits 279957 and 107453 (Douglas & Sutherland progenitors)

It was I who did that, and I explained it in some detail to your 279957 member in an exchange of several emails Feb. 1-3. Do you need to see those, or something?

ALEXANDRINA
02-22-2015, 01:55 AM
Yes Razyn,

I spoke to him recently however he still was not sure about the DF27 designation so I can ask him to forward the emails on to me.

Cheers

EastAnglian
02-22-2015, 11:41 AM
Update on our little L617 subclade:

Not sure if he has joined the DF27 yahoo group and project but there is a new L617 with a paternal ancestor from Somerset. This is very interesting as it might be a good indicator as to where our L617 ancestor entered Britain. The hypothesis at the moment is that L617 entered isles as part of the trade in metals 3000ish years ago, the location of the latest L617 result supports this but we do need to know if he's FGC1495+. So far FGC14951 has only been found in British L617.

John Marsh can provide updates on this for those interested.

jutland
07-24-2015, 11:30 AM
Hi, I'm z225 haplotype and would like to know more info about it. Seems to be from central to west europe.

rod
08-06-2015, 08:43 PM
How many R-DF27's did ftDNA move to R-L175 under R-L21 even though they're negative for R-L21? >:(

REWM
08-06-2015, 10:22 PM
I don't know but I was one of them. >:(

razyn
08-14-2015, 06:48 PM
I don't check the stats for our project very often, and FTDNA doesn't handily display the ones that really interest me anyhow. But once in a while I look at the received results, tests in progress -- that sort of thing. We've recently passed the 1100 member mark. With respect to our percentage of members that have BigY tests, these are some snapshots in time:

Nov. 13, 2014 I sampled received results, only. We had 145 kits. (I posted some other details on this thread, Nov.14.)

June 10, 2015 we were up to 245 kits with results, 12 more tests in progress and awaiting results. All but one of those have now been received (one sample failed and is being retested).

Aug. 14 we have 283 with results in hand, 9 mostly recent orders awaiting BigY tests in progress. A pretty good percentage of the 38 results that are new in the past 10 weeks are from people who had the test, and their results led them one way or another into the DF27 project. I think that process is actually still accelerating.

TigerMW
08-14-2015, 10:08 PM
I don't check the stats for our project very often, and FTDNA doesn't handily display the ones that really interest me anyhow. But once in a while I look at the received results, tests in progress -- that sort of thing. We've recently passed the 1100 member mark. With respect to our percentage of members that have BigY tests, these are some snapshots in time:

Nov. 13, 2014 I sampled received results, only. We had 145 kits. (I posted some other details on this thread, Nov.14.)

June 10, 2015 we were up to 245 kits with results, 12 more tests in progress and awaiting results. All but one of those have now been received (one sample failed and is being retested).

Aug. 14 we have 283 with results in hand, 9 mostly recent orders awaiting BigY tests in progress. A pretty good percentage of the 38 results that are new in the past 10 weeks are from people who had the test, and their results led them one way or another into the DF27 project. I think that process is actually still accelerating.

Great work, Razyn. I saw a U106 posting on their penetration of Big Y testing. I thought L21's was higher but it is about the same as U106's, it's just that L21 is big project with 3700+ members. Guess what? DF27's proportion of Big Y testing was higher than either. My congratulations to DF27. Not bad, for someone who didn't exist a couple of years ago.

Gray Fox
08-14-2015, 10:14 PM
Great work, Razyn. I saw a U106 posting on their penetration of Big Y testing. I thought L21's was higher but it is about the same as U106's, it's just that L21 is big project with 3700+ members. Guess what? DF27's proportion of Big Y testing was higher than either. My congratulations to DF27. Not bad, for someone who didn't exist a couple of years ago.

These fella's being mostly of British descent, I can only imagine what things will be like once we penetrate continental Europe more thoroughly. The sleeper will awaken!

razyn
08-14-2015, 10:27 PM
As I was hinting, part of that is happening because BigY tests point to some new stuff that nobody knew about, or was testing for. When they find each other, one or more of their "matches" turn out to be in the DF27 project, so they join it. Sometimes, because I invited them, to get my greedy clutches on the hidden content from their .vcf files; but mainly, they find us by themselves. Some "shared novel variants" match writes to them, or they hear about DF27 on some forum -- maybe even within their surname projects. That's the process that seems to be picking up momentum -- new guys are joining who already have their BigY results.

I don't imagine L21 gets too many new members who already had to spend $575 or whatever for NextGen sequencing before they knew they were L21.

haleaton
08-21-2015, 09:28 AM
On 8/7 three Big Y matches appeared with Shared Novel Variants L858 & L862. One of them was identified as DF27. I am FGC5301 < L2 < U152 and though I was a DF27 no call in Big Y, I have FGC Y Prime that shows me DF27- as well as L858- & L862-. However FTDNA does know my L2+ status from multiple tests.

There was some traffic in the DF27 Yahoo Groups on similar matches from their end, but I am not a group member over there, so I am mentioning here.

So far this is FTDNA's response after the Help Desk contacted the Big Y Team.

Dear Hal,

I have heard back from our Big Y team on this issue. Here is what they said:

'I think it is possible the SNPs show as shared novel variants due to a bug. It is also possible that there are secondary SNPs at the same locations as L858 and L862, and the derived values of the second SNPs are identical to the reference. I will check if there are secondary SNPs at these positions.'

Have a wonderful day!

Senior Agent
Family Tree DNA

So far nothing has changed, but they will probably fix it.

haleaton
09-06-2015, 05:01 AM
On 8/7 three Big Y matches appeared with Shared Novel Variants L858 & L862. One of them was identified as DF27. I am FGC5301 < L2 < U152 and though I was a DF27 no call in Big Y, I have FGC Y Prime that shows me DF27- as well as L858- & L862-. However FTDNA does know my L2+ status from multiple tests.

There was some traffic in the DF27 Yahoo Groups on similar matches from their end, but I am not a group member over there, so I am mentioning here.

So far this is FTDNA's response after the Help Desk contacted the Big Y Team.

Dear Hal,

I have heard back from our Big Y team on this issue. Here is what they said:

'I think it is possible the SNPs show as shared novel variants due to a bug. It is also possible that there are secondary SNPs at the same locations as L858 and L862, and the derived values of the second SNPs are identical to the reference. I will check if there are secondary SNPs at these positions.'

Have a wonderful day!

Senior Agent
Family Tree DNA

So far nothing has changed, but they will probably fix it.

"The Big Y Team" has yet to get back to me and now I have 7 Big Y matches with Shared Novel Variants L858 & L862!

gstockman
09-21-2015, 05:03 PM
How can I find matches for my Shared Novel Variants?
I have 86 Novel Variants per Big-Y, but my Big Tree analysis identifies only seven.
Is that normal?

Earl Davis
09-21-2015, 05:55 PM
How can I find matches for my Shared Novel Variants?
I have 86 Novel Variants per Big-Y, but my Big Tree analysis identifies only seven.
Is that normal?

No it's not. 30-40 is about normal after anaysis. The others from BigY are probably upsteam or unreliable but you should expect at least 30+ left after analysis.

What is your kit number?

gstockman
09-21-2015, 08:26 PM
333436

gstockman
09-21-2015, 08:31 PM
333436

gstockman
09-21-2015, 08:34 PM
Mr. Davis,

It had not occurred to me that they might be upstream of DF83. That probably answers my question. I'll take a look at Big Tree for DF27 which is what FTDNA lists me as.

Thank you.
George Stockman

Earl Davis
09-21-2015, 09:39 PM
333436

Thanks for the reply.

The Big Tree analysis shows that you have about 16 snips in 'good regions' that are not shared with anyone else that has submitted their BigY or FGC results to the Big Tree. They also found one other SNP in a less favouable region as well as several other potential snips where the results were unclear. You also shared over 22 other snips with other people under DF27. Most of these were probably unknown to FTDNA when the BigY was launched in Nov 2013. Any SNP that was not in the FTDNA database as of Nov 2013 is usually described as 'novel' by FTDNA at this time.

Once of the big issues we all have at the moment is the difference in opinion as to what constitues a useful SNP.

Earl.

razyn
09-22-2015, 12:51 AM
I'll take a look at Big Tree for DF27 which is what FTDNA lists me as.
You can get much more specific than DF27. The Big Tree has taken you several steps below DF83.
http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=232&star=false
There is really no need to worry about how many more variants someone else might have from a similar test; you've already hit pay dirt compared to guys who had sixty variants and no matches.

gstockman
09-22-2015, 09:49 AM
Earl,

Thank you very much for going into this for me.

You're the best.
George Stockman

gstockman
09-22-2015, 09:52 AM
Thank you too, Razyn. That link is where I was able to see seven of the 86 Novel Variants enumerated by FTDNA. George Stockman

gstockman
09-22-2015, 06:22 PM
Razyn,

Check out my closest Big Tree Block-ID:
http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=248

George

haleaton
09-25-2015, 11:46 PM
"The Big Y Team" has yet to get back to me and now I have 7 Big Y matches with Shared Novel Variants L858 & L862!

Up to ten now matches, now.

Edit: Now up to 12 Big Y Matches with L858 & L862? They never got back to me after the initial query.

Webb
09-28-2015, 01:19 PM
I have a question for Razyn and Alex Williamson. I have noticed a large number of CTS4065 BigY matches in my FTDNA match lists. A portion of these are not on Alex's tree. I know Alex gleams the drop folder at the Yahoo DF27 group, but I am assuming a lot of these matches have not joined the group, so is there any other way, short of me emailing them and asking them to join long enough to drop their BAM files in the appropriate folder, that Alex can access their BAM files? I hate to see so many CTS4065 results not being utilized.

razyn
11-30-2015, 05:31 PM
This doesn't address recent questions raised by individuals, but is more or less in the original spirit of the thread.

There was no DF27 project prior to July, 2013. Between July 5-21 Mike Walsh set it up, and the first 513 members were transferred in from elsewhere -- mainly the P312 project, but also from large surname or geographical projects in which Mike could detect DF27 clusters. I was an original admin, but was tied up with prior commitments, and didn't take over the day to day operations until early Feb. 2014. There has been a learning curve for me, as well as various growth curves (and not exclusively at FTDNA); we are running along a bit more efficiently now, and with a lot more data.

One of the growth curves that is pretty easy to analyze is tracked by FTDNA computers, but only the admins can see that. There is a graph of project "joins" (which I believe corrects itself for departures), and I checked it a couple of weeks ago when our membership was 1283. (Today it's 1294.) Our growth rate for the first couple of years (Aug. 2013 through July 2015) averaged 20 a month. Over the next four months it has averaged 52 a month. That is skewed a little by the movement of another block into the project; but the main driver of it has been testing -- BigY, targeted Sanger sequencing for DF27, and especially the new M-343 "Backbone" SNP pack (that's now followed up with a DF27 test when the results show P312+ with no identified subclades). It is not a coincidence that the M-343 test came online at the beginning of our present, apparent four month membership growth spike.

With regard specifically to the BigY testing and analysis (most of that external to the testing company -- but the raw data being analyzed has largely come from FTDNA's BigY tests), we currently have results in hand for 331 kits of our project members; 18 more are in progress, and 3 await batching this week. That's 352 BigY orders from 1294 guys in the project, or 27.2%. (Some of that 1294 total aren't DF27+, but don't know that yet.) Other relevant testing is done by Full Genomes Corp.; and the analyses by FGC, by YFull and by Alex Williamson (the Big Tree) include sequenced results that are not part of the FTDNA database -- as well as samples from guys who have had BigY tests, but have not joined the DF27 project (so they aren't among the 1294 total or of the 352 BigY tests I can see). Many of the SNPs discovered in BigY raw data have been named elsewhere, and tests for them offered at YSEQ, well before FTDNA has noticed them or its project administrators have asked for new SNP tests.

Anyway, that broad and (sometimes a bit grudgingly) cooperative process has made it possible for FTDNA recently to offer three "SNP packs" much more specific than the M-343 Backbone, that are targeted for DF27:

The "general" DF27 SNP pack is exploratory, but is clearly best for our groups A, C, E, and any group alphabetically below Ea except Ua, Ub, and Ue.

The Z198 SNP pack is best for groups D, Ua and Ue. (Most of the people who would want it are, or should be, also members of the separate "SRY2627" project -- that existed before the DF27 haplogroup was discovered, and long before there was a DF27 project.)

The Z209 SNP pack is best for any group beginning with B, and also for group Ub. The fine detail available under this large and bushy branch of Z195 (the old "North/South cluster") is heavily indebted to the Zenker family (Henry and his sons Christopher and Stephen), who generously contributed to the project for targeted SNP testing, and multiple complimentary BigY tests, in that part of the DF27 tree.

As results from the new SNP packs begin to be reported in the coming weeks, I hope we will begin to see some new spikes in the membership of our specific subgroups; and perhaps a decrease in the population of large groups A, E, and those beginning with a U. Suggestions or comments are welcome from other points of view. My point of view is more or less digging out of the rubble after the 2014-15 SNP tsunami washed over DF27. I think I can see a little daylight up ahead.