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View Full Version : Living DNA Orion and Sirius chip results for the same person - What a difference!



Robert1
12-13-2018, 02:57 AM
I tested last year at Living DNA when their "Orion" chip was being used and tested again in November when they moved to the "Sirius" chip. I just got my new results and as you can see below much is the same but much is different!

First, at this time I assume today's results are from the new Sirius chip. I will be contacting Living DNA to verify this but for now the raw data file I downloaded last year is 15,385KB and today's raw data file is 16,805KB. We've been told the new Sirius chip tests more SNPs so a larger data file makes sense. I need to inspect the file headers to see if there is a quick giveaway. The file names are the same except for the kit number.

The increase in Ireland is shocking, from 6.1% to 37.6%! From my known ancestry it is more like 15%. You would expect a greatly increased Ireland would cannibalize Scotland but my Scottish increased from 29% to 40.1% (drawing from Northern England)! Instead Ireland was a black hole sucking away North Wales, Cornwall, Devon, South Central England and Southeast England. (Southeast England dropped from 21.8% to 1.9%!)

The loss of 1.3% Scandinavia makes sense as I find none in my paper trail. However I should have about 5% German/Dutch but neither test found any, understandable since Germany often is reported very low.

Living DNA says the same SNPs are tested for ancestry breakdown in both chips so there should be no difference in ancestry percentages. But there is.

I think Jessie and others are on to something when they've pointed out recent tests are finding more Ireland than the older tests. She speculated that samples from the ongoing Irish update may have been added to Living DNA's Irish reference panel and used for newer tests but not older tests. That makes perfect sense considering my results. I have to wonder if some new samples were added to Scotland too since that percent increased at the expense of Northern England.

There was no change in my MT and Y Haplogroup/subclades. Both tests report K1a4a1f and R-L21>DF13


Robert Living DNA Complete Mode Orion/Sirius

Great Britain and Ireland -- 98.7% -100.0%
Northwest Scotland -------- 20.8% - 23.0%
Aberdeenshire -------------- 6.9% -- 14.6%
SW Scotland & N. Ireland -- 1.3% --- 2.5%
Ireland ---------------------- 6.1% -- 37.6%
Northumbria ---------------- 3.9% --- 0.0%
Northwest England -------- 10.0% --- 3.5%
North Yorkshire ------------- 5.5% --- 2.8%
South Yorkshire ------------- 4.7% --- 6.4%
North Wales ----------------- 2.9% --- 0.0%
South Wales ----------------- 9.0% --- 5.8%
South Wales Border --------- 0.0% --- 1.9%
South Central England ------ 1.7% --- 0.0%
Devon ------------------------ 1.3% --- 0.0%
Cornwall ---------------------- 2.7% --- 0.0%
Southeast England ---------- 21.8% -- 1.9%
Scandinavia ------------------- 1.3% -- 0.0%
Europe West ------------------ 0.0% -- 0.0%


known family history:
English 32%, Scottish 28%, Welsh 20%, Irish 15%, German/Netherlands 5%

fostert
12-13-2018, 03:06 AM
Wow, thats hugely disappointing that Living's ethnicity estimates could be that variable (and by extension, unreliable) especially in their supposed region of specialization the UK. I wonder if their long-awaited Ireland project breakdown will fix this, but TBH I've lost all hope in that ever materializing.

I tested with Living in 2017 so am likely on the Orion chip. I don't think I'll be paying for an "upgrade" to the sirius chip!

Robert1
12-13-2018, 03:34 AM
I looked at the data file headers and the new results are on the Sirius chip.

First test:
# Living DNA customer genotype data download file version: 1.0.1
# File creation date 7-6-2017
# The content of this file is subject to updates and changes depending on the time of download.
# This genotype data should be treated as personal information.
# This genotype data is not suitable for clinical/medical research or diagnosis.
# The user assumes all responsibility for the security of this file.
# Please refer to the Living DNA Terms and Conditions on our website (www.livingdna.com) for more information.
# Human Genome Reference Build 37 (GRCh37.p13).
# Genotypes are presented on the forward strand.
#
# rsid

Today's test:
# Living DNA customer genotype data download file version: 1.0.2
# File creation date: 11-19-2018
# Genotype chip: Sirius
# The content of this file is subject to updates and changes depending on the time of download.
# This genotype data should be treated as personal information.
# This genotype data is not suitable for clinical/medical research or diagnosis.
# The user assumes all responsibility for the security of this file.
# Please refer to the Living DNA Terms and Conditions on our website (www.livingdna.com) for more information.
# Human Genome Reference Build 37 (GRCh37.p13).
# Genotypes are presented on the forward strand.
#
# rsid

sktibo
12-13-2018, 04:34 AM
Hey Robert,
As you know i've been eagerly anticipating this. Could you please post your known ancestry here for easy comparison and reference?

Aberdeen appears to be a problematic category now.. My dad, with no eastern scottish ancestry of any kind, got 19% while my mom who actually has some got zero.

The decrease in Welsh on sirius isn't promising, and indicates they certainly cannot split these regions to a fine scale on autosomal tests. In a broader view, like, a PCA without finestructure, wales often clusters with Ireland and scotland so I think it just can't tell the difference.

sktibo
12-13-2018, 04:58 AM
I'm not claiming its universal, as I've seen results where Aberdeenshire percentages are given to people with ancestry from the area. However, I've also seen results of English people and others where Aberdeenshire oddly seems to creep in.. This seems to happen rather often.

Just to see what it would look like, i added your percentages without Aberdeenshire... 68.9. That is a lot closer to your irish Scottish and welsh total, yes? Before i go further with this crazy idea, do you have eastern scottish ancestry?

Robert1
12-13-2018, 07:24 AM
I'm not claiming its universal, as I've seen results where Aberdeenshire percentages are given to people with ancestry from the area. However, I've also seen results of English people and others where Aberdeenshire oddly seems to creep in.. This seems to happen rather often.

Just to see what it would look like, i added your percentages without Aberdeenshire... 68.9. That is a lot closer to your irish Scottish and welsh total, yes? Before i go further with this crazy idea, do you have eastern scottish ancestry?

Sktibo, yes most of my known Scottish ancestry is NW/Highlands and very little is Aberdeenshire (nothing like 14.6%!) as you said. My paper trail has me at Scot (28%), Irish (15%) and Welsh (20%) for a total of 63%. Plus 32% English and 5% German&Dutch.

Robert1
12-13-2018, 07:27 AM
I really don't think this is Orion vs. Sirius if it's true the exact same SNPs are used on both chips for ancestry breakdown. In that case it just matters when you were tested (last year or recently) and when new samples were added to Living DNA's reference panels.

I am not annoyed by my different results because I expect to learn from this! Already I learned I was right all along when I suspected last year my ~22% SE England was way too high. It's actually more like 5-7% (basically my 5% German&Dutch).

sktibo
12-13-2018, 12:56 PM
I really don't think this is Orion vs. Sirius if it's true the exact same SNPs are used on both chips for ancestry breakdown. In that case it just matters when you were tested (last year or recently) and when new samples were added to Living DNA's reference panels.

I am not annoyed by my different results because I expect to learn from this! Already I learned I was right all along when I suspected last year my ~22% SE England was way too high. It's actually more like 5-7% (basically my 5% German&Dutch).

Now your English estimate is much too low, which isn't good either!

Continuing to look at Aberdeenshire, my dad's Scottish percentage as well as my own are much closer to our paper trail percentages when Aberdeenshire is excluded. I also noticed that I recieved roughly half of what my dad was assigned for both NW and SW Scotland, but our Aberdeenshire percentages are 19 and 21.9, another part of my reasoning for this possibly being a big problem region in British ethnicity estimates

I'm going to message living DNA to see if they'll re run my original results... If they do that for me it should give us more insight into what they have updated...

TopLobster
12-13-2018, 02:53 PM
I also have a problem with Aberdeenshire assigned ancestry.

On standard mode I get 6.6% Aberdeenshire, 16.9% NW Scotland, and 2.3% Ireland.

On cautious mode I get 25.8% NW Scotland Related, which includes Northwest Scotland, Southwest Scotland, Ireland and Cumbria populations but does not include Aberdeenshire.

6.6% + 16.9% + 2.3% = 25.8%

I suppose this could be bug in the program and the NW Scotland Related is meant to include Aberdeenshire.

I don't know how much ancestry I have from NE Scotland. I do have 1/64 documented, but that ancestor was landed gentry and so they probably have ancestry from many different areas and therefore don't closely match the genetic references for Aberdeenshire.

FionnSneachta
12-13-2018, 02:54 PM
I'm going to message living DNA to see if they'll re run my original results... If they do that for me it should give us more insight into what they have updated...

I emailed them on 27th November about this and still have no reply. I get that it may not be feasible to update everyone's results but they never should have promised it if that's the case. I wouldn't have tested with them that early if I didn't think my results would be updated. There's no update on my dad's kit either in relation to a re-upload.

euasta
12-13-2018, 04:00 PM
I emailed them on 27th November about this and still have no reply. I get that it may not be feasible to update everyone's results but they never should have promised it if that's the case. I wouldn't have tested with them that early if I didn't think my results would be updated. There's no update on my dad's kit either in relation to a re-upload.
Quote with promises:
"In the future, if, we are able to provide finer detail within our existing regions, or we can offer additional features in the ancestry platform, your online results will be updated"

Robert1
12-13-2018, 04:56 PM
Quote with promises:

I think it's wise for Living DNA to cautiously add samples to their reference panels and for now use them only for new tests. Once they are happy with the effects of new samples they probably will roll out the update to everyone like AncestryDNA did a few months back. This likely will not happen until the Irish, Scottish, German, etc. updates are complete. Until then new testers may be "beta testers".

euasta
12-13-2018, 05:37 PM
I think it's wise for Living DNA to cautiously add samples to their reference panels and for now use them only for new tests. Once they are happy with the effects of new samples they probably will roll out the update to everyone like AncestryDNA did a few months back. This likely will not happen until the Irish, Scottish, German, etc. updates are complete. ...
Lol...
I am one of their references on regional project for Central and Southeast Europe with all known ancestors from a small area from here.
..."In the future, if, we are able to provide finer detail within our existing regions..."
But do you think they care ? From the responses I receive, does not seem to care!>:( If cared they retest the sample with the new chip. But their promises were for all, not just for references!

Robert1
12-13-2018, 06:23 PM
Euasta, so you're telling Living DNA they aren't allowed have a beta test? To weed out problem samples added to the reference panels?

Robert1
12-13-2018, 06:26 PM
Surely Living DNA has compared ancestry breakdown using the same samples on both Orion and Sirius.

And compared SNP overlap with other chips for DNA relative matching in Family Networks.

euasta
12-13-2018, 06:57 PM
I do not understand. What is Beta tester? I'm not referring to something I do not know!

...the new cip read over 100.000 new aDNA markers, and ~ 50% more from Y chromosome. Of course, this surplus increases the resolution of the test result.

Robert1
12-13-2018, 07:01 PM
Screenshots of Complete Mode from Sirius
27650
27651


Screenshots of Complete Mode from Orion
27652
27653

Robert1
12-14-2018, 07:53 AM
I reread Living DNA's announcement of the new Sirius chip and this stood out. I had forgotten how much imputation is used to compare our Orion samples with older samples in the reference panels including PoBI. Imputation can work well but having direct overlap of SNPs is better. Anyway imputation and Orion gave me Welsh that I know is real so it shouldn't have been drained away testing again. Oh well breaking down ancestry in the British Isles is a real mystery. And fun. All the suspects look alike! I'm glad I tested again on Sirius, I will learn something.

"Our Family Ancestry test measures the amount of genetic ancestry you share with different populations throughout the world by comparing your high-res genetic profile against the profiles of different reference panels of individuals with known ancestry profiles. The main challenge we face when doing such comparison is the fact that the profiles of these reference panel individuals have been usually obtained using different SNP genotyping platforms, and in order to make them comparable with your own profile (from the older Orion chip) we need to use statistical approaches to estimate SNPs that are common to all the platforms extrapolating information from these and other populations in a process known as imputation.

Sirius provides an increased overlap of the SNPs typed in your profile with those in the different reference panels, reducing the amount of imputed markers we use in our analysis, which translates into an increase in precision and resolution of our ancestry estimations."

https://livingdna.com/news/we-have-a-new-chip

Nqp15hhu
12-14-2018, 12:32 PM
Very boring for me all-around. Still no matches or results.

euasta
12-14-2018, 03:42 PM
Excuse me my friends, but the estimation of ethnicity is a... fraud made to please probably the most numerous clients from England, and second from North America. English people have between 80-100% England ethnicity, and they are pleased!...
That's how most people in Northwest Europe and Central Europe have... 40-60% or even more ethnicity from England, although they know for 200 to 500 years that they do not have any ancestor from there! I have myself here in Balkans 20% NW Europe+England in the LDNA result... despite I know for almost 300 years, that all my paternal and maternal line are from the same very small area from south of Romania. And it's not just my case. Even in all the Balkans countries you meet the same situation. It's incredible! Few people in the Balkans pass 15-25% "Balkan ethnicity" on LDNA test, and verry few rich or pass 40%! Compare this with 80-100% "England" for English people...! That's crazy!

Dewsloth
12-14-2018, 04:37 PM
I emailed them on 27th November about this and still have no reply. I get that it may not be feasible to update everyone's results but they never should have promised it if that's the case. I wouldn't have tested with them that early if I didn't think my results would be updated. There's no update on my dad's kit either in relation to a re-upload.

A while ago, they even had a pop-up when I logged into my dad's kit from January 2017, saying there might be updates. But they have never updated anything since they introduced the complete mode.

He's half German (and was born in Germany), and autosomally on most tests he's Southwest German, East French or South Dutch, but LivingDNA gives him NOTHING for any of those regions -- just 71% Great Britain/Ireland and 8.2% Scandinavian. :\

27669

sktibo
12-14-2018, 04:53 PM
I emailed them on 27th November about this and still have no reply. I get that it may not be feasible to update everyone's results but they never should have promised it if that's the case. I wouldn't have tested with them that early if I didn't think my results would be updated. There's no update on my dad's kit either in relation to a re-upload.

I tried anyhow and they told me they wouldn't update my results. That's okay though, I didn't think it was too likely. It seems like they certainly have updated their Irish references looking at Robert's before and after results.... 6.1 to 37.6% is a jump that is too high for that not to have happened.. especially when we take into account the other uploads we've seen recently. I suppose they are planning on waiting for some completion of their large scale 13 region Ireland project and their German project to be ready for some level of release before they start updating old sets of results - I think by changing the estimates in such a way they'll have to.

I'd like to see some upload results for people with German ancestry to get an idea about where their Germanic category is at and if it has had samples added to it. I suspect it has as I think they actually claimed it was further along than the Irish project. My father's upload got over 30% Germanic as well without any continental Germanic ancestry of any sort, that suggests to me that it isn't a category lacking in references... I hope I am wrong about the Germanic category having references added though.

FionnSneachta
12-14-2018, 04:59 PM
I tried anyhow and they told me they wouldn't update my results.

Looks like I'll have to give them a nudge again so.

sktibo
12-14-2018, 05:09 PM
Looks like I'll have to give them a nudge again so.

Do it

Another poster in the LDNA results thread mentioned that there's no sign of the Irish or German projects on their webpage any more so perhaps the updates have already happened...

C J Wyatt III
12-14-2018, 05:28 PM
I reread Living DNA's announcement of the new Sirius chip and this stood out. I had forgotten how much imputation is used to compare our Orion samples with older samples in the reference panels including PoBI. Imputation can work well but having direct overlap of SNPs is better....

Imputation is just GIGO processing. DNA.LAND is proof of that. My mother went from around 10,000 matches on GEDmatch to four with the imputation using DNA.Land, if I remember correctly (one was me).

Big data processing solutions do not work, if you are missing something major in the first place.

Jack

sktibo
12-14-2018, 05:35 PM
Imputation is just GIGO processing. DNA.LAND is proof of that. My mother went from around 10,000 matches on GEDmatch to four with the imputation using DNA.Land, if I remember correctly (one was me).

Big data processing solutions do not work, if you are missing something major in the first place.

Jack

Continuing on this point,

@Robert1

Any chance you can get an upload from 23andme or something to Living DNA to see how your uploaded results compare to Sirius and Orion? I don't think they use imputation on the uploads (however I am unsure of this.)

FionnSneachta
12-14-2018, 05:57 PM
Do it

Another poster in the LDNA results thread mentioned that there's no sign of the Irish or German projects on their webpage any more so perhaps the updates have already happened...

I've sent another message so hopefully they reply this time. I'm not expecting much out of it either but an acknowledgement would be nice. I had noticed the absence of the projects as well. I was referring someone to the Irish project and couldn't find any trace of it apart from mentions on other blogs and the map posted by other websites. It does look as if the one world project has been somewhat abandoned, at least in trying to bring it down to the small sub-region level. They're not advertising it like they used to anyway if they are still working on it. I know that I could directly email the individual I was in contact with before about the Irish research project.

Robert1
12-15-2018, 12:03 AM
I tried anyhow and they told me they wouldn't update my results. That's okay though, I didn't think it was too likely. It seems like they certainly have updated their Irish references looking at Robert's before and after results.... 6.1 to 37.6% is a jump that is too high for that not to have happened.. especially when we take into account the other uploads we've seen recently. I suppose they are planning on waiting for some completion of their large scale 13 region Ireland project and their German project to be ready for some level of release before they start updating old sets of results - I think by changing the estimates in such a way they'll have to.

I'd like to see some upload results for people with German ancestry to get an idea about where their Germanic category is at and if it has had samples added to it. I suspect it has as I think they actually claimed it was further along than the Irish project. My father's upload got over 30% Germanic as well without any continental Germanic ancestry of any sort, that suggests to me that it isn't a category lacking in references... I hope I am wrong about the Germanic category having references added though.

From my 4-5% known West German and Dutch ancestry it doesn't appear Living DNA has added German samples but that's a small percentage to be guessing from. Neither Orion nor Sirius picked it up so I'd expect my German to instead be blended in with SE England. The only problem with that - my 2017 Orion result for SE England is ~22% and brand new Sirius result is ~2%!

Robert1
12-15-2018, 12:12 AM
Continuing on this point,

@Robert1

Any chance you can get an upload from 23andme or something to Living DNA to see how your uploaded results compare to Sirius and Orion? I don't think they use imputation on the uploads (however I am unsure of this.)

@sktibo , now I wish I had done an upload to Find My Past when they were offering a free Living DNA ancestry breakdown. Unfortunately I don't think that offer is good now, you still can upload but don't get ancestry breakdown. Back then I should have uploaded my FTDNA raw data as that's the best file format. At the time I didn't see a need for it but now I'd love to have it. Oh well I suppose Sirius is fairly similar to FTDNA (OmniExpress chip).

If I am wrong about still getting an ancestry breakdown from an upload please let me know.

Robert1
12-15-2018, 03:55 PM
Yesterday I emailed Living DNA customer support asking about the difference in my tests on Orion and Sirius. I'm not expecting a clear answer but we will see. This is posted on the Living DNA users Facebook page but so far no answer from Living DNA. (They occasionally post there, even David Nicholson.)

Trelvern
12-15-2018, 06:23 PM
I really don't think this is Orion vs. Sirius if it's true the exact same SNPs are used on both chips for ancestry breakdown. In that case it just matters when you were tested (last year or recently) and when new samples were added to Living DNA's reference panels.

I am not annoyed by my different results because I expect to learn from this! Already I learned I was right all along when I suspected last year my ~22% SE England was way too high. It's actually more like 5-7% (basically my 5% German&Dutch).




I got my results in October.


So this is the old chip ; the french results were improved (15.7 "french"! and 76.9 the isles with no known ancestors) but not perfect.

An update is planned?

Robert1
12-15-2018, 07:04 PM
I got my results in October.


So this is the old chip ; the french results were improved (15.7 "french"! and 76.9 the isles with no known ancestors) but not perfect.

An update is planned?

I think the Sirius chip has been used since mid-October. You can open your raw data file in a text editor or word processor and see if the first few lines mention Sirius. If not it's Orion as that raw data won't mention Orion or Sirius.

Some day results will be updated when Irish, Scot, German, etc. reference panels are updated. No one here knows when.

Trelvern
12-16-2018, 09:49 AM
I think the Sirius chip has been used since mid-October. You can open your raw data file in a text editor or word processor and see if the first few lines mention Sirius. If not it's Orion as that raw data won't mention Orion or Sirius.

Some day results will be updated when Irish, Scot, German, etc. reference panels are updated. No one here knows when.

Thanks
Actually it's Sirius.

Robert1
12-17-2018, 07:08 PM
I recently sent Living DNA a message on Facebook regarding the higher amount's of Irish ancestry showing in recent uploads/results; their response is below (they respond very quickly to Facebook messages in case any of you want to contact them in the future):

"Hi, thanks for getting in touch with us. Our Irish Ancestry updates are across both chips. The updated Irish Ancestry results are due to a result in our improvements across our panels and not the chip. The chip will not affect this and your results will be updated in your portal automatically. Everyone's portals will update for 3 different panels including Irish Ancestry in March time of 2019 - our European panels have been updated and our British Isles is currently 50% complete of a further update. We will release more information in 2019 about panel improvements, kind regards, Living DNA"

Also interesting was their response to a separate message I sent a while back where they indicated "new product launches due in 2019 such as health and traits"

Thank you for posting this in the other Sirius thread, richard.mcculloch! I thought I'd quote it here since I've been waiting fro this answer from Living DNA.

Robert1
12-20-2018, 06:36 PM
I noticed this morning all seven of my family's tests have picked up Family Networks relative matches. Even my December 12th Sirius chip test has gone from "Keep Fishing" to five matches.

I'm glad my Sirius chip test now has matches as I can compare it to my earlier Orion chip test. And the results are good, Orion to Orion SNPs of course overlap better than Orion to Sirius but it's close - a 49% Orion to Orion DNA match tends to be about 47% Orion to Sirius.

BroderTuck
12-28-2018, 05:19 PM
For you who have tested on both chips (edit: the "In particular" part is also relevant if you've only tested on Sirius) :

Do you see any changes regarding the Y snps?
In particular, is the Sirius chip better in regards to the common false positives listed here (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?9681-Living-DNA-the-Y&p=262179&viewfull=1#post262179)?

Angriff
01-02-2019, 07:41 PM
So I got my new Sirius results today, and they are almost COMPLETELY different. They actually match my paper record more accurately now, although it seems my French is still showing as Northern Italian.

2809828099

Irish and Scottish are especially far more accurate now. On paper I'm 3/16 of each (18.75%).

Robert1
01-03-2019, 12:35 AM
So I got my new Sirius results today, and they are almost COMPLETELY different. They actually match my paper record more accurately now, although it seems my French is still showing as Northern Italian.

2809828099

Irish and Scottish are especially far more accurate now. On paper I'm 3/16 of each (18.75%).

Thanks for testing again! Your new results are somewhat like mine, you lost England and Wales while Ireland and Scotland bulked up. (Good to hear you think Ireland and Scotland are more accurate now.) Also your large SE England vanished like mine but yours went to the continent while mine stayed in the Isles.

Robert1
01-03-2019, 02:09 AM
So I got my new Sirius results today, and they are almost COMPLETELY different. They actually match my paper record more accurately now, although it seems my French is still showing as Northern Italian.

2809828099

Irish and Scottish are especially far more accurate now. On paper I'm 3/16 of each (18.75%).

It's very interesting your 33.9% SE England morphed into 33.3% Germanic. It does seem Living DNA has more NW European reference samples as they claim.

sktibo
01-08-2019, 05:24 AM
So the continental references have indeed been updated... That's less promising for those who more recently received poor results. I don't think they'll be able to accurately assign their English sub regions...

rod
01-30-2019, 01:24 AM
Me vs Me...
28691

"Complete"

edwardsson
01-30-2019, 06:07 AM
Is this in the Complete, Standard or Cautious mode?

rod
01-30-2019, 11:27 AM
Is this in the Complete, Standard or Cautious mode?
That was complete.
Here are cautious old and new.
28704

rod
02-03-2019, 01:47 AM
Me vs Me...
28691

"Complete"

Sometime Thursday 31 Jan, without any notice Living DNA removed the second set of results from my account. The status is blank and the tab to view results is gone...

timberwolf
02-03-2019, 02:07 AM
Sometime Thursday 31 Jan, without any notice Living DNA removed the second set of results from my account. The status is blank and the tab to view results is gone...

That's terrible, have they said why? Assuming that you can contact them, and that they can be actually bothered enough to reply.

geebee
02-05-2019, 01:44 AM
Sometime Thursday 31 Jan, without any notice Living DNA removed the second set of results from my account. The status is blank and the tab to view results is gone...

I'm having a similar problem, only I just had one set of results. I took the test back in October of 2018, and I've had the results for around a month now. In fact, I used the Snipping Tool in Windows to copy my percentages and the LivingDNA map. The date of the copy is January 9, so I've had the results at least that long -- but possibly a bit longer.

Now, however, my "status" is blank. I apparently no longer have any test results, and LivingDNA hasn't bothered to explain why.

EDIT:

Fortunately, I did download the data file, and I've managed to locate it on my computer. I'm seeing a file creation date of 11-9-2018, and "Sirius" is the Genotype chip.

Angriff
02-05-2019, 02:56 AM
My Sirius results are also not showing now. Seems like they must be having some kind of technical issue, hopefully they'll resolve it soon....

rod
02-05-2019, 04:22 AM
That's terrible, have they said why? Assuming that you can contact them, and that they can be actually bothered enough to reply.

My results returned Monday. Everyone who lost results should have them back. They did some sort of "system upgrade" late last week. Sometimes you have a better chance of getting something resolved if you bypass "customer service". Thanks D.N. :)

geebee
02-05-2019, 02:45 PM
My results returned Monday. Everyone who lost results should have them back. They did some sort of "system upgrade" late last week. Sometimes you have a better chance of getting something resolved if you bypass "customer service". Thanks D.N. :)

I agree I probably should have them back. Unfortunately, I don't. I hope that's just a not yet.

EDIT:

There's also nothing I can find about how I'd contact "customer service" even if I wanted to. No contact information at all.

Judith
02-07-2019, 09:20 AM
I am glad they are updating because from Robert’s results south-east england should be reduced. My brother had a total of nearly 20% from areas I do not have (Devon, south central England and South east). Their German estimate has gone down from 4% to 2% so that is an improvement that they have made. I did the test in the hope of distinguishing between Aberdeenshire and east Ireland for a ggggm’s origins(she said both in the censuses).
On the whole their analysis was the best and still is since they do not use other customers data (unlike ancestry).

Angriff
02-08-2019, 06:41 AM
I am glad they are updating because from Robert’s results south-east england should be reduced. My brother had a total of nearly 20% from areas I do not have (Devon, south central England and South east). Their German estimate has gone down from 4% to 2% so that is an improvement that they have made. I did the test in the hope of distinguishing between Aberdeenshire and east Ireland for a ggggm’s origins(she said both in the censuses).
On the whole their analysis was the best and still is since they do not use other customers data (unlike ancestry).

How exactly does Ancestry do this anyway? From what I've seen Ancestry's results are quite inaccurate, so I'm curious about details like this.

Robert1
05-01-2019, 12:47 AM
I filled out the survey and today got an update on my Sirius chip results of 12/12/2018 which are more in line with my Orion chip updated results of 2/13/2019. It looks like the two chips are fairly compatible for ancestry composition estimates after all, as Living DNA said. (The differences now could be due to tweaking reference panels between 2/13/2019 and 4/30/2019.)

These results today are fairly close to my known ancestry as well. Ireland still is stronger than I'd expect for me.

Living DNA - Complete Mode with Sub-Regions
Robert Smith ------- Orion 2017 - Sirius 12/12/18 - Orion 2/13/19 - Sirius 4/30/19
Great Britain and Ireland -- 98.7% ---100.0% ------ 100.0% ---------- 100.0%
Northwest Scotland -------- 20.8% ---- 23.0% ------- 12.5% ----------- 13.8%
Aberdeenshire --------------- 6.9% ---- 14.6% --------- 3.7% ------------ 7.0%
SW Scotland & N. Ireland --- 1.3% ----- 2.5% ----------------------------- 2.7%
Ireland ------------------------ 6.1% --- 37.6% -------- 31.1% ----------- 28.4%
Northumbria ------------------ 3.9% ----------------------------------------- 1.2%
Northwest England ---------- 10.0% ---- 3.5% ------------------------------------
Cumbria ---------------------------------------------------- 3.8% ------------ 1.9%
North Yorkshire --------------- 5.5% ---- 2.8% ------------------------------ 1.8%
South Yorkshire --------------- 4.7% ---- 6.4% ---------- 6.9% ----------- 10.1%
North Wales ------------------- 2.9% ---------------------- 1.9% -------------------
South Wales ------------------- 9.0% ---- 5.8% ---------- 4.8% ------------- 8.7%
South Wales Border ---------------------- 1.9% --------------------------------------
South Central England -------- 1.7% --------------------- 23.9% ----------- 23.0%
Devon -------------------------- 1.3% -------------------------------------------------
Cornwall ------------------------ 2.7% --------------------- 3.8% --------------------
Southeast England ------------ 21.8% --- 1.9% ---------- 7.4% ------------- 1.3%
Scandinavia --------------------- 1.3% ------------------------------------------------
Europe West -------------------- 0.0% --- 0.0% ----------- 0.0% ------------ 0.0%

known family history:
English 32%, Scottish 28%, Welsh 20%, Irish 15%, German/Netherlands 5%


4/30/19 Sirius chip ancestry results
30222
30223

Robert1
05-01-2019, 05:55 PM
This update yesterday is pretty good at the country level (at least for me). A good chunk of my known Welsh and a bit of Scottish seem to be missing.

I'm really liking that adding Scotland/Wales/Ireland is 60.6%, very close to my known Scot/Irish/Welsh of ~63% and that England is 39.4%, very close to my known English plus German/Dutch of 37%!

Looking at my map above my missing Welsh likely is reported in South Central England and some Scottish and Northern England are reported as Ireland.

My known German/Dutch ancestry may actually be closer to 0 than 5% (DNA-wise) as it does go back 6-7 generations. It could be masked in my slightly inflated English.

All in all I'm happy with this latest update. The pieces fit better than my earlier jigsaw puzzles. I'm also glad to see the Sirius and Orion chip results are much closer now that they are using reference panels only two months apart.

---------- Known history ------- LDNA Sirius 4/30/2019

English ----------- ~32% --------- 39.4%

Scottish ----------- ~28% -------- 23.5%

Welsh ------------- ~20% ---------- 8.7%

Irish ----------------~15% --------- 28.4%

German/Dutch ----- ~5% ------------ 0%

sktibo
09-12-2019, 05:10 PM
I'm pretty sure that if Living DNA does "succeed" in splitting Ireland into the 12 or 13 regions as they have proposed it will be a mess akin to trying to accurately assign English ancestry on almost a county basis as they currently try - and from what I can see fail - to do. I don't think they would have so much trouble assigning English regions if they didn't split England so far past what all four of the major studies on Britain (and Ireland) have found. It looks like the Insular Celtic Population Structure paper identified five major Irish regions, the Irish DNA Atlas identified seven, and the Genetic Landscape of Scotland looks to have identified about four (if I group Donegal into one cluster and I don't include N-Ire-Sco as it's primarily located in Scotland.) I think it would often result in people getting a fair chunk from the counties they have ancestry from and the rest would be pretty random, which is no good when people look at these tests and believe they have ancestry from the areas they get assigned. Evening using 7 regions might be a bit of a stretch.

Now that said, if Living DNA actually manages to provide anything that resembles what they've outlined I still consider that a win.

BroderTuck
01-21-2021, 12:02 PM
Since this is a thread about differences, I ask: If anyone has tested on both chip version (Orion and Sirius), what differences did you see on the Y-dna portion of the results?

Robert McBride
01-22-2021, 03:23 PM
Since this is a thread about differences, I ask: If anyone has tested on both chip version (Orion and Sirius), what differences did you see on the Y-dna portion of the results?

I tested on the sirius chip through Findmypast so I didn’t get a y haplogroup from Livingdna (you only get the autosomal regional breakdown).

However you can download the raw data file and work out the Y and mito haplogroups.
Using genetichomeland.com as a reference and working upstream from your haplogroup the most downstream snps on it I can find are Y7300 and FGC14168.