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asquecco
12-13-2018, 08:50 PM
...or at least at the moment it seems that way also because some members of this group that are mapped far from the Adriatic sea have reported that their genealogical paternal line origin is actually close to its coasts.
I'm talking about R-U152>L2>Z49>S8183>S22778>S20782 and the map is here:
http://bit.ly/YDNA-R-S20782
My "YDNA of your matches" approach seems to work well for S20782 tested by 23andme V5, thanks to the public and private help of many (many) people.
Adriano

asquecco
12-22-2018, 01:15 PM
Added new entries. The map is now based on more than 110 23andme feedback:
https://bit.ly/YDNA-R-S20782
If you tested with 23andme please check if you have any R-S20782 among your matches.
At the top of your 23andme home page you should have the "ANCESTRY" tab and, within it, the "DNA RELATIVES" tab.
If you go to the "DNA RELATIVES" page, at the top right corner of the page, you should see the "Search keywords" box.
https://asquecco.000webhostapp.com/Match_1.png
https://asquecco.000webhostapp.com/Match_1a.png
Just type R-S20782 and see if you get results. Probably you will find no results but anyway please let me know sending me a PM.
Thanks a lot.
Adriano

asquecco
01-06-2019, 10:32 PM
Added new entries to this map (more than 250 23andme feedback):
https://bit.ly/YDNA-R-S20782
Moreover 23andme V5 tests Z438/FGC6720 (Hg19 position 22505840, 23andme SNP i706887) and I hope this SNP could split in a meanigful way this group because at the moment I have verified that there are 1 ancestral and 1 derived result in it.

asquecco
02-11-2019, 04:11 PM
After reaching 400 feedback we have an addition of German flavor:

28872

However 23andme database bias and North Italy based bias must be taken into account.
According to 23andme, 1 in 4,500 23andme customers share R-S20782 haplogroup assignment.
https://bit.ly/YDNA-R-S20782

asquecco
02-25-2019, 08:32 PM
Just over 500 feedback with 35 members. And a new BIG Y 700 result.
The R-S20782 group is growing.
https://bit.ly/YDNA-R-S20782

asquecco
04-10-2019, 12:06 PM
Just reached 700 23andme feedback and found the updated version of the YFull R-S8183 Tree.
Thanks to BIG Y 700, SNP S20782 is now included in the YTree within the brand new R-Y17176 group:
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-S8183/
About YFull R-Y16860 's TMRCA calculation, I think R-Y5383's SNPs are missing in the formula.
I just wonder how many entries in the R-S20782 map, belong to this new R-Y17176 group:
https://bit.ly/YDNA-R-S20782
I asked lots of Anthrogenica members to check R-S20782 among their 23andme matches: thanks again for your feedback.
Adriano

asquecco
08-31-2019, 09:38 AM
After more than 1200 23andme feedback, still R-S20782 (R-U152>L2>Z49>S8183>S22778>S20782) has a strong flavor of north Adriatic sea.

32807

1200 23andme feedback means that people searched in 1200 23andme accounts for R-S20782 matches. Half of these accounts are completely unrelated to me (and to my North-East Italian ancestry).
In average each 23andme user currently has slighty more than 1000 matches and more or less half of them are male.
The present-day distribution could be totally unrelated to the place of origin of the S20782 SNP, but nevertheless there must be a good explanation for what this rough map is showing, that is, some kind of connection between S20782 and celtic tribes like Carni and Taurisci or other tribes that lived in that red-circled area.
Moreover, based on a very superficial analysis on other 23andme data, it seems to me that the present-day distribution of Y4355 and S8172 in North-East Italy (both SNPs are dowstream of Z49>S8183 like S20782) could be underestimated.

https://bit.ly/YDNA-R-S20782
Adriano

asquecco
02-07-2020, 10:27 PM
The recent Christmas sales are helping me to find new 23andme R-S20782 results.
The main motif of the map is not changing, with the presence of two main groups: the first one in North East Italy (Veneto and Friuli regions) + Slovenia/Croatia and the second one in Central Europe.
I also drawn a hypothetical path that connects them not so far from the Lake Constance, also known as Lacus Venetus around 43 AD.
https://bit.ly/YDNA-R-S20782

36290

asquecco
12-01-2020, 05:59 PM
Thanks to the help of many contributors, the R-U152>L2>Z49>S8183>S20782 MAP map is still growing:

41491

Now it would be time for an ancient Z49+ to finally pop up somewhere.

MitchellSince1893
12-01-2020, 07:51 PM
It's striking how geographically different Z49>S8183 is to Z49>Z142 when it comes to Ireland, England, and France in present day.

On FTDNA haplotree
S8183
Ireland 24.37%
Germany 15.97%
Sweden 8.40%
Italy 2 5.88%
England 5.04%
France 4.20%
Czech Republic 3.36%
Poland 3.36%
Norway 2.52%
Finland 2.52%

Z142
England 31.97%
France 14.63%
Germany 10.20%
United Kingdom 4.08%
Scotland 4.08%
Finland 3.40%
Italy 3.06%
Northern Ireland 2.38%
Ireland 2.38%
Sweden 2.04%

serckesh
12-02-2020, 03:10 AM
It's striking how geographically different Z49>S8183 is to Z49>Z142 when it comes to Ireland, England, and France in present day.

On FTDNA haplotree
S8183
Ireland 24.37%
Germany 15.97%
Sweden 8.40%
Italy 2 5.88%
England 5.04%
France 4.20%
Czech Republic 3.36%
Poland 3.36%
Norway 2.52%
Finland 2.52%

Z142
England 31.97%
France 14.63%
Germany 10.20%
United Kingdom 4.08%
Scotland 4.08%
Finland 3.40%
Italy 3.06%
Northern Ireland 2.38%
Ireland 2.38%
Sweden 2.04%

In R-S8183, most of the Irish members, 28 out of 29, are the Barry clan, having a common ancestor only 800 years ago and descending from Flemish.
Czechs have 3 from one family, the fourth is of German origin.
You have to be careful with statistics.
If we count the ancient subclades - mainly S8183 - this is the German-Scandinavian subclade

asquecco
12-02-2020, 08:14 AM
In my opinion, we need to have a look at 23andme in order to have a more detailed idea of the present-day S8183 and subclades distribution.
Otherwise the available numbers at this moment are not enough to draw any solid conclusion.
For example, in 23andme I can see Y4355 and S8172 results among my matches and some of them are also from Italy.
So I imagine there shouldn't be any problems finding them developing a specific research.
I'm focused only on S20782, so I didn't collect any of these results.
As far as S20782 is concerned, at the moment my idea is that it has to do with the slovenian Novo Mesto area and the East Hallstatt world in general.
I think that more recent events, like Gottschee [https://gottschee.org/] didn't impact too much the distribution I can see, even if I see few S20782 surnames in the list of the Gottscheer surnames.
I also think the Amber Road and the Rhine Valley were paths that helped the spread of S20782.

asquecco
02-28-2021, 09:34 AM
Recently I added a couple of new results to my map:
https://bit.ly/YDNA-R-S20782
Thanks again to the people who are helping my search.
Both paternal lines are from Northeast Italy (Veneto and Friuli regions) and, looking at the R-S20782 distribution map, that is not a surprise.
One of the results is a BIG Y test and it split the existing FTDNA R-S22778 block: now this block is made of 13 SNPs, instead of 17 SNPs as it was in the previous tree version.
S20782 still remains in the main R-S22778 block and, according to the FTDNA tree, this SNP is now around 50 variants far from today (ranging from 45 to 57).
In the meantime it seems the first ancient DNA Z49 results have been found:
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2924-Branches-of-Z142&p=753550&viewfull=1#post753550
Even if they belong to a different Z49 branch (Z142), anyway these results are somehow informative also for the S8183 branch and they give hope that soon S8183 results will be discovered too.