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Kart
12-18-2018, 12:50 PM
Malayalam and Tamil have the letter "zha" which is supposedly hard to pronounce for non-native speakers.

Some Tamils have also lost the ability to pronounce it and they substitute it with the sound "la." For example, Tamil instead of Tamizh, Vali instead of vazhi(way) etc.

Some Malayalees from North Kerala and little kids subsitute "zha" with "ya". Example: "vayi" for vazhi and "maya" for "mazha"(rain)

If possible, include an audio or video clip of the correct pronounciation. B)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWbXXbtoCQ4

jdean
12-18-2018, 04:47 PM
Welsh is probably littered with them but I don't speak it myself, save a few words that have made it into Wenglish however there are plenty of place names that lots would struggle with : )

I couldn't find an example of bach by itself but that's a good example, I was called Dia bach as a child which simply means little David

Bach (https://forvo.com/word/cŵn_bach/)

A lot of Welsh place names start with Llan but again I couldn't find a good example of that buy itself however this fellow says it about 11 seconds in.

Llan (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flyzsVejVGY)

Kart
12-18-2018, 05:28 PM
Welsh is probably littered with them but I don't speak it myself, save a few words that have made it into Wenglish however there are plenty of place names that lots would struggle with : )

I couldn't find an example of bach by itself but that's a good example, I was called Dia bach as a child which simply means little David

Bach (https://forvo.com/word/cŵn_bach/)

A lot of Welsh place names start with Llan but again I couldn't find a good example of that buy itself however this fellow says it about 11 seconds in.

Llan (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flyzsVejVGY)

haha... I noticed that a lot of these sounds are guttural .. Baarrch. Good one :)

surbakhunWeesste
12-18-2018, 05:54 PM
The retroflex sounds, the Indians and Pakistanis can’t pronounce it correctly either but I’ve seen some Westerners utter it correctly.
The subcontinent’s retroflex it ‘too’ pronounced for Pashto imo.

Edit, also the ts,dz sounds, there are variations and elimination, one of the many reasons to how words eventually get replaced.

Kart
12-18-2018, 06:06 PM
The retroflex sounds, the Indians and Pakistanis can’t pronounce it correctly either but I’ve seen some Westerners utter it correctly.
The subcontinent’s retroflex it ‘too’ pronounced for Pashto imo.

Edit, also the ts,dz sounds, there are variations and elimination, one of the many reasons to how words eventually get replaced.

can you tell me an example of "ts" in a Hindi or Urdu word? :)

surbakhunWeesste
12-18-2018, 06:14 PM
Tshaii= tea
Tsheelam= thang that goes on top of a hookah
Tsherg = rooster
Tsiraag= light

Chai
Chilam
Charg
Chiraag

few words

MonkeyDLuffy
12-18-2018, 06:39 PM
Tshaii= tea
Tsheelam= thang that goes on top of a hookah
Tsherg = rooster
Tsiraag= light

Chai
Chilam
Charg
Chiraag

few words

Yea the Ch seems to be replaced. Reminds me of how in punjabi we don't say Paise but Paihe. Like S is replaced by H.

surbakhunWeesste
12-18-2018, 09:18 PM
Yea the Ch seems to be replaced. Reminds me of how in punjabi we don't say Paise but Paihe. Like S is replaced by H.


سراج

Borrowed from Aramaic שְׁרָגָא‎ (erāgā) (in Classical Syriac ܫܪܳܓܳܐ‎), from Parthian *𐫢𐫡𐫀𐫄‎ (*rʾɣ /irāɣ/).


https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D8%B3%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%AC

The thang apart from the sound is that many words have a different meaning in the sub continent, like the word "thum". Arabic word 'ghalat': I am yet to find someone from there (not diaspora) who pronounces it the 'right' way.
I have also noticed that they have problem pronouncing many words including their own alphabet.
Few that hits my head: J, Z, S, Sh.

Sounds are very distinct and imp. for us.

Kulin
12-18-2018, 10:48 PM
Most Indo-Aryan/Dravidian speakers have trouble pronouncing the "ng" sound present in Bengali-Assamese languages. So, instead of saying "Bangladesh" where the ng is pronounced quite softly, they'd instead say "Bangaladesh". It's the reason why the native term "Bangla" was transcribed to "Bangalah" and "Bangal" in Persian and Hindi/Urdu respectively, and later into European languages like Portuguese (Bengala), and ultimately the English term Bengal.

In my own language (standard) , people have difficulty pronouncing v/z/dzh/retroflex r/hard Khh like I've said before, but most of them depend on what dialect is spoken.

Kart
12-18-2018, 10:59 PM
Most Indo-Aryan/Dravidian speakers have trouble pronouncing the "ng" sound present in Bengali-Assamese languages. So, instead of saying "Bangladesh" where the ng is pronounced quite softly, they'd instead say "Bangaladesh". It's the reason why the native term "Bangla" was transcribed to "Bangalah" and "Bangal" in Persian and Hindi/Urdu respectively, and later into European languages like Portuguese (Bengala), and ultimately the English term Bengal.

In my own language (standard) , people have difficulty pronouncing v/z/dzh/retroflex r/hard Khh like I've said before, but most of them depend on what dialect is spoken.

I think I can say "ng" properly :confused: I listened to Bangladesh's national anthem to see how they pronounce "Bangla" and it sounds like I'm pronouncing it right :lol:

Kulin
12-18-2018, 11:01 PM
I think I can say "ng" properly :confused:

Lol ofc, its a feature of English as well, but if you were straight outta an indian village, you'd probably not pronounce it correctly.

surbakhunWeesste
12-18-2018, 11:55 PM
Lol ofc, its a feature of English as well, but if you were straight outta an indian village, you'd probably not pronounce it correctly.

Isnt the sound also an alphabet within the indo aryan system?

Kulin
12-18-2018, 11:59 PM
Isn’t the sound also an alphabet within the indo aryan system?

Bengali and Assamese have it, but I doubt other languages do.

surbakhunWeesste
12-19-2018, 12:03 AM
Bengali and Assamese have it, but I doubt other languages do.

I can read Devanagari and it has it as well. Maybe people dont wanna utter the right sound for the reasons best known to themselves!

jdean
12-19-2018, 12:05 AM
haha... I noticed that a lot of these sounds are guttural .. Baarrch. Good one :)

Love the helpful advice in a dictionary I have for pronouncing the Welsh LL sound


produced by placing the tongue to pronounce L then emitting breath without voice

Interesting fact, it was because of the difficulty the English had with pronouncing the Welsh name Fychan that the spelling changed to Vaughan. Initially it was as an attempt to get the sound down on paper but then they just completely gave up, hence the way it's pronounced now : )))))

Kart
12-19-2018, 12:14 AM
Love the helpful advice in a dictionary I have for pronouncing the Welsh LL sound



Interesting fact, it was because of the difficulty the English had with pronouncing the Welsh name Fychan that the spelling changed to Vaughan. Initially it was as an attempt to get the sound down on paper but then they just completely gave up, hence the way it's pronounced now : )))))

That advice was actually helpful.. I'm hissing like a snake while I'm typing this out :lol:


So Vaughan is spelled like that in Welsh. Learning Welsh must be hard for English speakers because it'd take them a long time to pronounce Fychan as Vaughn and not..Fychan.

Kulin
12-19-2018, 12:27 AM
^ Same for all Celtic languages lol, just look at some Irish names.

Kart
12-19-2018, 12:33 AM
^ Same for all Celtic languages lol, just look at some Irish names.

Haha I know.. Eoin..Saiorse lol

jdean
12-19-2018, 12:36 AM
That advice was actually helpful.. I'm hissing like snake while I'm typing this out :lol:

Think you might need to give it a bit more welly, it's a strong sound but also short : )

Mandoos
12-19-2018, 01:26 AM
I think I can say "ng" properly :confused: I listened to Bangladesh's national anthem to see how they pronounce "Bangla" and it sounds like I'm pronouncing it right :lol:

It's also present in Dravidian languages, i.e. "Mangaa" for mango without the hard "g" sound

Kart
12-19-2018, 01:29 AM
It's also present in Dravidian languages, i.e. "Mangaa" for mango without the hard "g" sound

aahhh..okay. and the name Ganga... :)

Mandoos
12-19-2018, 01:36 AM
the "la" for "zha" swap reminds me of this singaporean song... :lol: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SMapt_IldQ

soulblighter
12-19-2018, 01:38 AM
Malayalam and Tamil have the letter "zha" which is supposedly hard to pronounce for non-native speakers.

Some Tamils have also lost the ability to pronounce it and they substitute it with the sound "la." For example, Tamil instead of Tamizh, Vali instead of vazhi(way) etc.

Some Malayalees from North Kerala and little kids subsitute "zha" with "ya". Example: "vayi" for vazhi and "maya" for "mazha"(rain)

If possible, include an audio or video clip of the correct pronounciation. B)





The way "zha" is pronounced in Tamil does not have the 'z' sound at the beginning as they seem to indicate in your video.

It is more like the american 'r'. Here is the 'zha' sound as part of the word for Ripe i.e. fruit (Pazham) Banana (Vaazhai) .


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clnrJsfj79Q

Kart
12-19-2018, 01:42 AM
the "la" for "zha" swap reminds me of this singaporean song... :lol: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SMapt_IldQ

vaykkulle vaalapalam omg I'm dead..it's so catchy :lol::lol::lol: (means banana in the mouth for non-Tamil peeps lol)

Kart
12-19-2018, 01:44 AM
The way "zha" is pronounced in Tamil does not have the 'z' sound at the beginning as they seem to indicate in your video.

It is more like the american 'r'. Here is the 'zha' sound as part of the word for Ripe i.e. fruit (Pazham) Banana (Vaazhai) .



I noticed that too..but I couldn't find other videos :/