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View Full Version : "Pierce Brosnan gene" - dark hair, blue eyes and freckles



avalon
11-21-2013, 08:19 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2511321/Pierce-Brosnan-gene-gives-people-freckles-dark-hair-blue-eyes-discovered-scientists.html

Thought this was interesting as many Irish people have a combination of dark hair and blue eyes. Not sure how common this trait is in Iceland though!

rossa
11-22-2013, 07:55 AM
It's got a licence to kill melanin.

RazorBlade
05-31-2015, 06:35 AM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2511321/Pierce-Brosnan-gene-gives-people-freckles-dark-hair-blue-eyes-discovered-scientists.html

Thought this was interesting as many Irish people have a combination of dark hair and blue eyes. Not sure how common this trait is in Iceland though!

Far less common than in Ireland or the UK, Because Iceland crowds are dominated by blonde and lighter(golden) shades of brown. However there seem to be an slighty larger number of darker haired people in Iceland and Western coast of Norway.. but nowhere near the number you find in Ireland.. and nowhere near as dark either.. I met Pitch black haired Irish and English men very often.

vettor
05-31-2015, 07:36 AM
Some call this, the "black Irish" marker and others say Pontic-European marker..........I have never found answers in this long long discussion on Black hair-blue eye Europeans

rms2
05-31-2015, 11:42 AM
I started out blond as a kid, but then my hair turned dark when I was in my twenties. My eyes are blue. I had a lot of freckles as a kid, especially across the bridge of my nose and on my cheeks, but those have mostly faded. Still have a lot of them on my shoulders.

alan
05-31-2015, 11:52 PM
It is most common among the Irish with Scots prob second but its a very common combo throughout much of the isles. Its funny they mention Brosnon as freckley even though I think of him as tanning unusually well - which basically shows the guy has been plastered in false tan for a lot of his career.

ADW_1981
06-01-2015, 02:24 AM
Far less common than in Ireland or the UK, Because Iceland crowds are dominated by blonde and lighter(golden) shades of brown. However there seem to be an slighty larger number of darker haired people in Iceland and Western coast of Norway.. but nowhere near the number you find in Ireland.. and nowhere near as dark either.. I met Pitch black haired Irish and English men very often.

I'm pretty sure people in Britain and Ireland have whiter skin though. (less melanin) ;)

Stephen1986
06-01-2015, 09:44 AM
My mother had black hair, blue eyes and freckles whilst my dad had dark brown hair, blue eyes and no freckles. I have dark brown hair, blue eyes and light brown freckles (apart from a small cluster of dark brown freckles) that aren't very visible. The combination is very common in my family, and I know plenty of other people around where I live who have similar colouring.

Webb
06-01-2015, 06:38 PM
I remember ready a published article about this very topic, but it was more about the black haired grey eye combo, as true blue eyes are not very common. Most of us who have blue eyes actually have quite a bit of grey. Sometimes people call them steel colored eyes. I think the article was published in one of the many National Geographic issues. Anyway, they focused on Northern Italy, the Pyrenees, Ireland, and Wales.

rms2
06-03-2015, 11:02 AM
I read somewhere that gray eyes are more of a Baltic phenomenon and that blue eyes prevail in the northwest. My own eyes are actually blue, not gray. The eye color predictor thingy at Gedmatch actually does a pretty good job of matching them, at least in my case.

Gray Fox
06-03-2015, 07:24 PM
I can see where Webb is getting the gray eye thing. Perhaps it isn't so much gray as a hazel type mixture? My father has legitimately baby blue eyes. My mother has what I would describe as forest green eyes. I have dark blue eyes with what I perceive as being gray around the pupils, but in all actuality I believe may just be a very light green hazel mixture. Sometimes they appear more green than gray.. At least that's what I've seen with my own eyes.. (<---insert pun here) :P

alan
06-03-2015, 07:27 PM
I have long thought that in the same population there is some way relative lightness/darkness of skin tone and eyes pair together but that this is not true for hair except redheads who are overwhelmingly extremely fair skinned. Blond hair on the other hand can sometimes go with hazel eyes and more tanned skin in a way that is very rare for redheads. So, it seems to me blond hair is entirely separate and is not linked to hair an eye colour. I think in some not yet understood way that light skin and eyes is linked and that red hair is a double doze of a gene originally selected for very fair skin BUT blond hair seems to be an entirely non-functional attribute down to a mix of sexual selection.

vettor
06-03-2015, 07:33 PM
I remember ready a published article about this very topic, but it was more about the black haired grey eye combo, as true blue eyes are not very common. Most of us who have blue eyes actually have quite a bit of grey. Sometimes people call them steel colored eyes. I think the article was published in one of the many National Geographic issues. Anyway, they focused on Northern Italy, the Pyrenees, Ireland, and Wales.

I read the same article

Green eyes came into this as well ( being a branch of Blue) , but where does Hazel come in , from green eyes ( via blue) or Brown eyes

Unsure if I am correct, but the base of eye colour in the world comes from only 2 branches , Blue and Brown

Jessie
06-04-2015, 07:18 AM
I read the same article

Green eyes came into this as well ( being a branch of Blue) , but where does Hazel come in , from green eyes ( via blue) or Brown eyes

Unsure if I am correct, but the base of eye colour in the world comes from only 2 branches , Blue and Brown

I've always read that green eyes are more related to brown. Blue eyes just have the pigment turned off. Basically the colour of the eyes is due to the amount and type of melanin. Brown eyes have the most melanin and this melanin is eumelanin which is darker. Green eyes have pigment that is called lipochrome as well as some eumelan. Hazel most likely have more eumelanin but also some lipochrome. People with blue eyes have very small amounts of pigment. Multiple genes affect eye colour.

Usually brown eyes are dominant to all the other colours, green are dominant to blue and blue are recessive to all. There are various factors that affect this so it doesn't mean this happens in every instance.

http://youreyecolour.blogspot.com.au/2014/01/pigment-lipochrome-eumelanin-and-eye.html

rms2
06-04-2015, 12:18 PM
I think it may have been in Coon's famous book where I read about gray eyes being more prevalent in the region of the Baltic and blue eyes prevailing in NW Europe, but I'll have to see if I can find the reference when I get a chance. It was something I read quite some time ago.

alan
06-05-2015, 10:44 PM
I've always read that green eyes are more related to brown. Blue eyes just have the pigment turned off. Basically the colour of the eyes is due to the amount and type of melanin. Brown eyes have the most melanin and this melanin is eumelanin which is darker. Green eyes have pigment that is called lipochrome as well as some eumelan. Hazel most likely have more eumelanin but also some lipochrome. People with blue eyes have very small amounts of pigment. Multiple genes affect eye colour.

Usually brown eyes are dominant to all the other colours, green are dominant to blue and blue are recessive to all. There are various factors that affect this so it doesn't mean this happens in every instance.

http://youreyecolour.blogspot.com.au/2014/01/pigment-lipochrome-eumelanin-and-eye.html

Yeah the effect on a significant intrusion of dark eyes into a light eyed population will reduce the light eyes so it seems to me any current very light eyed population with no history of huge scale population replacement since must have been light eyed to begin with.

rms2
06-06-2015, 12:41 PM
Here's something from Coon on eye color in Ireland that mentions "[t]he almost total absence of gray eyes" (blue prevail). It's from his book, The Races of Europe, Chapter X, Section 2: http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-X2.htm.



In the proportion of pure light eyes, Ireland competes successfully with the blondest regions of Scandinavia. Over 46 per cent of the total group has pure light eyes, and of these all but 4 per cent are blue. Very light-mixed eyes (equivalent to Martin #13-14) account for another 30 per cent, while less than one-half of one per cent have pure brown. There is probably no population of equal size in the world which is lighter eyed, and blue eyed, than the Irish. The almost total absence of gray eyes corresponds to the equal paucity of ash-blond hair. Compared to eastern Norway, Sweden, and Finnic and Baltic groups, the eye color is disproportionately light in comparison to hair color. Regional differences, while not great, are of some importance. The ratio of pure blue eyes falls to 33 per cent in Kerry and Clare, and rises to 50 per cent in other regions - Carlow and Wicklow in the southeast, and Armagh, Monaghan, and eastern Cavan in the North. On the whole, the east is lighter eyed than the west, as it is lighter haired. At the same time the Presbyterians are blonder than the Catholics, who are in turn fairer than the members of the Church of Ireland.

rms2
06-06-2015, 01:02 PM
Here is a little more from Coon's book, The Races of Europe. This is from the section on the Baltic Finns.



The head hair, most frequently ash-blond or light to medium brown, is shown by a correlation based on the Fischer chart to be lighter than that for the kingdom of Norway, which is, on the same basis, the lightest in Scandinavia. At the same time the eyes are specifically gray in 74 per cent of the group, while blue eyes are exceptional, and brown irises limited to 8 per cent of the whole. (Chapter IX, Section 10).

Elsewhere, in several places, he makes a connection between the kind of ash-blond hair prevalent in Scandinavia and gray rather than blue eyes. He touches on that in his comments on Scottish eye color, which is also relevant to the topic of this thread, since he mentions a connection between the Gaelic-speaking areas of Scotland and the combination of dark hair and blue eyes.



In Scotland, 32 per cent of adult males have pure light eyes, 48 per cent are called mixed, and 20 per cent dark. The latter category probably includes a number of dark-mixed iris patterns. Blue eyes are commonest in the north and south of Scotland, and gray eyes appear in numbers in the Shetlands and Orkneys, under Scandinavian inspiration. Mixed eyes are typical of east central Scotland, while brown eyes reach their highest ratio in the Glasgow region, among the industrial population. The area of Gaelic speech, which Tocher found associated with an excess of dark hair, is also notably blue eyed. (Ch. X, Section 3)

So, I think it must have been from Coon's book that I imbibed the idea that gray eyes are more prevalent in the region of the Baltic than in the Isles.

FalkirkEagle
06-07-2015, 11:07 PM
My ex-wife has grey-blue eyes, dark brown hair, and I believe she had freckles as a child. She happens to be of Irish and French descent. My mother also had greyish-blue eyes, but her hair started out sort of blonde when she was a kid, and then darkened into a darker shade of light brown. She was of Irish and Scots ancestry. So I would think there is something to this new finding about Irish genes. I have light brown hair and blue eyes, and my father was also of Scots and Irish ancestry, so I wouldn't be at all surprised to discover I too have the 'Pierce Brosnan gene'.

serge.allain
10-26-2015, 12:01 AM
I 'm quite deceived reading most of the remarks on eye colors, by the apparent lack of precision of many people and even 'specialits' about the definition of the color of human eyes; i've been interested since my youth by pigmentation (eyes, hair and skin) and extremely rarely have seen people aware of the fact of so many (west and german europe) non-'homozygotism' for the eyes, I mean giving colors between light and 'dark' - they could be between dark slate blue, green with golden, mustard...(not 'hazel', more pigmented); the same for the 'dustbin' where are put the color 'green' which could it seems to me be 'clear' or mixed (never homozygote); I saw myself to women from to different places in Brittany with the 'impossible' true yellow color - taking shades from the light green to the gold yellow, passing by the lemon yellow according to the direction of the light, very visible for clear eyes; I'm not 'daltonian' and find that the nowadays science abandoned perhaps to soon the notion of observation in anthropology: the study of genetics is maybe in danger of nonsense if it neglects all the natural means in our disposal. Is now the non-domination in genes (phenotype) out of question?...

Jessie
11-05-2015, 07:59 AM
I have long thought that in the same population there is some way relative lightness/darkness of skin tone and eyes pair together but that this is not true for hair except redheads who are overwhelmingly extremely fair skinned. Blond hair on the other hand can sometimes go with hazel eyes and more tanned skin in a way that is very rare for redheads. So, it seems to me blond hair is entirely separate and is not linked to hair an eye colour. I think in some not yet understood way that light skin and eyes is linked and that red hair is a double doze of a gene originally selected for very fair skin BUT blond hair seems to be an entirely non-functional attribute down to a mix of sexual selection.

Blue eyes and lighter skin are possibly linked. I remember reading about it quite a while ago on one of Razib Khan's blogs. Apparently some genes are selected together. The genes for lighter skin and blues eyes are part of the second largest selection sweep for Europeans. The important genes were for light skin and blue eyes just piggybacked on this and this is one of the reasons for their high success rate in Europeans. I can't find the exact article but the one below mentions the same thing.

" There were a raft of studies recently which showed that markers around HERC2 & OCA2 can explain about ~3/4 of the blue vs. brown eye color variation in Europeans. The genes are adjacent to each other, and there is a very long haplotype in that region in Europeans (which might be indicative of a selective sweep)."

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2009/02/what-does-eye-color-have-to-do-with-skin-color/

alan
11-05-2015, 10:08 AM
Blue eyes and lighter skin are possibly linked. I remember reading about it quite a while ago on one of Razib Khan's blogs. Apparently some genes are selected together. The genes for lighter skin and blues eyes are part of the second largest selection sweep for Europeans. The important genes were for light skin and blue eyes just piggybacked on this and this is one of the reasons for their high success rate in Europeans. I can't find the exact article but the one below mentions the same thing.

" There were a raft of studies recently which showed that markers around HERC2 & OCA2 can explain about ~3/4 of the blue vs. brown eye color variation in Europeans. The genes are adjacent to each other, and there is a very long haplotype in that region in Europeans (which might be indicative of a selective sweep)."

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2009/02/what-does-eye-color-have-to-do-with-skin-color/

Another thing I have noticed in Ireland s while you get a lot of mid to dark brown haired people with fair skin and blue eyes, the much more rare true jet black hair seems almost always to go with a slightly darker more olivey shade of skin and hazel eyes. This is contrary to some stereotypes. There seems to be some complex way in which hair, eyes and skin colour do have some sort of linkages.

Mellifluous
01-01-2016, 04:48 AM
Light eyes seem to be more common than light hair in the Middle East and South Central Asia as well.

I don't think light eyes and skin tone are linked. Blue eyes came about earlier than lighter skin from what I recall.

Edward J
01-02-2016, 03:26 AM
Isn't this the North Atlantid type based on Coon's book?

Lirio100
01-02-2016, 04:32 AM
My ex is of entirely Irish descent, most of his ancestors come from Kerry. His hair was black, his skin olive tone, and had very, very mid blue eyes. I have brown eyes but am heterozygous for the trait; our daughter has the very, very blue eyes but her skin tone is the fairer shade.