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View Full Version : What percentage of people in United States do you think descends from Celts



Emilio Delfin Vang B
01-11-2019, 09:51 PM
I want to know what states has more celt heritage

rms2
01-12-2019, 01:00 PM
Demographics are changing rapidly in the USA, but I would say right now, without trying to do a lot of research, that the southern states region, i.e., the old Confederacy, is probably the most British/Irish region. I'm talking about overall ancestry. I realize there are Irish enclaves in places like Boston, New York, and San Francisco, as well.

MitchellSince1893
01-12-2019, 04:50 PM
I want to know what states has more celt heritage
Based on the below, I would say New England States. New Hampshire seems the highest overall
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_JbHtUyzzdQw/TOyWIvJQkvI/AAAAAAAAAHQ/OBkxnioHRrg/s1600/Scotch+Irish+Map.jpg
http://mcimaps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Irish-State-1024x760.png
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_JbHtUyzzdQw/TOyVSu2lXxI/AAAAAAAAAHI/2jc2EchE5No/s1600/Scottish%2BAmerican%2BMap.jpg
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_JbHtUyzzdQw/TGszmbhepeI/AAAAAAAAAB0/E4Sm53-IgSc/s1600/Welsh+American+Map.jpg

tipirneni
01-12-2019, 06:11 PM
If you add some French, Some Italians, Some Germans, Some English, Irish, Scot, ScotIrish they are like 50% of population.

MitchellSince1893
01-12-2019, 06:45 PM
Here are the Scotch-Irish, Scottish, Irish, Welsh Americans at the county level
Higher resolution maps here https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ac/2d/84/ac2d84e85b804ae22a525b9818602fd2.png
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ac/2d/84/ac2d84e85b804ae22a525b9818602fd2.png

https://cdn2.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/2748188/dqgSf6t.0.gif

msmarjoribanks
01-12-2019, 07:04 PM
If using the census numbers you should probably add the "just American" people who likely have Scots-Irish and English heritage, at least in significant part.

msmarjoribanks
01-12-2019, 07:15 PM
That Pennsylvania was one of the highest for Welsh didn't surprise me, and I knew OH was higher than many states, but Utah surprised me, so I googled to learn the history. As I suspected, it's related to the old Mormon missions to the UK. I hadn't realized there was particular success in Wales.

This is interesting: https://www.utahhumanities.org/stories/items/show/295

"Like other countries in Europe during the 19th Century, Wales felt the effects of the Industrial Revolution. Rapid increases in population and harsh working conditions in manufacturing and coal mining led to worker riots and clashes with factory and mine owners. The first Mormon missionaries arrived in Wales in 1840 and had great success in cities dealing with poverty and social conflict. But for many of the Welsh converts, the promise of a new life in America was not always realized.

Once settled in Utah, these Welsh immigrants sought to improve their circumstances, yet found their old lives were hard to leave behind. Their specialized coal mining skills were naturally sought after by Mormon leaders setting up industries in an effort to create a self-sufficient economy.

In 1854 two Welsh miners, John Price and John Reese, were assigned to tap a source of coal located at the foot of the Sanpitch Mountains in central Utah. Nearby the new mine they established a town called Coalbed, which they later renamed Wales in honor of their homeland. The community was populated solely by immigrants from the British Isles, a little bit of home transplanted to Utah.

When a disastrous accident in the Cymmer Mine back home in Wales claimed 114 lives in 1856, the Welsh miners in Utah were no doubt reminded that the harsh and dangerous working conditions they had fled could someday become a reality in Utah. In peak years, the mines near the town of Wales employed 200 men before giving way to larger, more profitable mines in nearby Carbon County. Those, too, drew many Welshmen and their skills. In 1900, when Carbon County’s Scofield Mine Disaster claimed more than 200 lives – many of them Welsh – those earlier fears of recreating dangerous working conditions were sorely realized."

For Idaho: https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/northwest/idaho/history/article98424887.html

"The Welsh have a long and interesting history in Idaho. Three years before Davis was born, the U.S. census of 1870 recorded these people born in Wales living in Ada County: Barrett Williams, 67, farmer; his wife, Elizabeth, 57; and five children, the oldest born in Ohio, the others born in Wisconsin. Joel Jones, 36, was a boot maker, and James Hopkins, 29, was a stone mason. In Idaho County, R. Roberts, 35, J. Wilson, 35, and Philip Evans, 60, were miners. Jane Haskell, 32, was a dress maker. Owyhee County had seven Welsh-born miners and one man working in a sawmill.

By far the largest number of Welsh-born people living in Idaho at the end of the 19th century were Mormon converts who had moved west with Brigham Young in the great migration to Utah in 1847 and were then sent north as colonists to form new agricultural communities in southeastern Idaho. Today it is estimated that about 20 percent of the population of Utah is of Welsh descent, and that may be true for southeast Idaho as well."

My Welsh ancestors who came most recently settled in Wisconsin, which at the time had a large Welsh (and Welsh-speaking) community in one area, but then moved west to Washington (but near the Idaho border).

MitchellSince1893
01-12-2019, 07:43 PM
My Welsh ancestors went from Newtown, Wales to Eastern Tennessee in the Knoxville area in the late 1800s.
Here is a map of colonial settlements. The orange area southeast of Charlotte, NC is where my Scot-Irish ancestors settled.

https://myweb.rollins.edu/jsiry/ethnic-distribution_ColonialAmer1770.jpg

msmarjoribanks
01-12-2019, 08:16 PM
I have other suspected Welsh who settled in Jackson and Gallia, OH, which were heavily Welsh areas.

The Scots-Irish I know about in my family settled in Augusta Co, Virginia (orange on your colonial settlement map), and then--like many--went to Kentucky and then into the southeastern tip of Illinois (Pope and Hardin counties). I've found their land purchase records for that part of Illinois in 1816 and 1818. Then in the 1830s they moved north (a little ways north, it's still only about a third of the way up the state) to Fayette Co.

Phoebe Watts
01-12-2019, 09:22 PM
That Pennsylvania was one of the highest for Welsh didn't surprise me, and I knew OH was higher than many states, but Utah surprised me, so I googled to learn the history. As I suspected, it's related to the old Mormon missions to the UK. I hadn't realized there was particular success in Wales.

This is interesting: https://www.utahhumanities.org/stories/items/show/295

"Like other countries in Europe during the 19th Century, Wales felt the effects of the Industrial Revolution. Rapid increases in population and harsh working conditions in manufacturing and coal mining led to worker riots and clashes with factory and mine owners. The first Mormon missionaries arrived in Wales in 1840 and had great success in cities dealing with poverty and social conflict. But for many of the Welsh converts, the promise of a new life in America was not always realized.

Once settled in Utah, these Welsh immigrants sought to improve their circumstances, yet found their old lives were hard to leave behind. Their specialized coal mining skills were naturally sought after by Mormon leaders setting up industries in an effort to create a self-sufficient economy.

In 1854 two Welsh miners, John Price and John Reese, were assigned to tap a source of coal located at the foot of the Sanpitch Mountains in central Utah. Nearby the new mine they established a town called Coalbed, which they later renamed Wales in honor of their homeland. The community was populated solely by immigrants from the British Isles, a little bit of home transplanted to Utah.

When a disastrous accident in the Cymmer Mine back home in Wales claimed 114 lives in 1856, the Welsh miners in Utah were no doubt reminded that the harsh and dangerous working conditions they had fled could someday become a reality in Utah. In peak years, the mines near the town of Wales employed 200 men before giving way to larger, more profitable mines in nearby Carbon County. Those, too, drew many Welshmen and their skills. In 1900, when Carbon County’s Scofield Mine Disaster claimed more than 200 lives – many of them Welsh – those earlier fears of recreating dangerous working conditions were sorely realized."

For Idaho: https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/northwest/idaho/history/article98424887.html

"The Welsh have a long and interesting history in Idaho. Three years before Davis was born, the U.S. census of 1870 recorded these people born in Wales living in Ada County: Barrett Williams, 67, farmer; his wife, Elizabeth, 57; and five children, the oldest born in Ohio, the others born in Wisconsin. Joel Jones, 36, was a boot maker, and James Hopkins, 29, was a stone mason. In Idaho County, R. Roberts, 35, J. Wilson, 35, and Philip Evans, 60, were miners. Jane Haskell, 32, was a dress maker. Owyhee County had seven Welsh-born miners and one man working in a sawmill.

By far the largest number of Welsh-born people living in Idaho at the end of the 19th century were Mormon converts who had moved west with Brigham Young in the great migration to Utah in 1847 and were then sent north as colonists to form new agricultural communities in southeastern Idaho. Today it is estimated that about 20 percent of the population of Utah is of Welsh descent, and that may be true for southeast Idaho as well."

My Welsh ancestors who came most recently settled in Wisconsin, which at the time had a large Welsh (and Welsh-speaking) community in one area, but then moved west to Washington (but near the Idaho border).

On a bit of a tangent: I was surprised at these quotes about Welsh Mormons... It is of course true that many of the earliest emigrants to Utah from the UK were Welsh. They went on from Utah to Idaho, Alberta and Montana etc.. But the emigration was far wider than coal miners.The people I know most about were from rural Carmarthenshire. It seems that the established church was particularly weak in rural Carmarthenshir, leaving a bit of a vacuum. The emigrants weren’t particularly the rural poor, they included craftsmen, farmers and shopkeepers. Apparently my 3x great grandparents converted but didn’t emigrate. Two of their siblings emigrated in the early years followed by their daughter in the 1870s.

There is a database of Welsh Mormon emigrants at http://welshmormon.byu.edu/Immigrants_Listing.aspx

Phoebe Watts
01-12-2019, 10:06 PM
As well as Utah, Idaho and Montana, I have traced many relatives who emigrated from Wales to Pennsylvania, Ohio and Wisconsin. Stone quarrymen went to Lithonia, Geargia; farmars to Minnesota and Illinois. Although I know of several emigrants from Anglesey in the 1700s, I don’t know where most of them went. I do know of one cousin in Virginia in the 1750s.

Saetro
01-19-2019, 06:54 PM
Cornish hard rock miners that I know about went to Wisconsin and Michigan.
And also Pennsylvania, but I think this one was going as a preacher.
The general drift is that Cornish went anywhere there was a hole in the ground - certainly for hard-rock minerals mining.
Some had a history of mining simply because they could not get land, so when they reached America and land was available, they became farmers.
I have some going to Iowa.
Where they went depended on what was happening when they left.
A variety of push factors, both local and general, were involved over history.
Because mines close and workers move on, they probably moved again within America.

Lirio100
01-19-2019, 09:48 PM
Irish Hills in Michigan got its name from the high number of Irish settlers between 1830 and 1850. It's a really beautiful area, and at least until a few years ago even the fire trucks were green.

msmarjoribanks
01-19-2019, 10:00 PM
As well as Utah, Idaho and Montana, I have traced many relatives who emigrated from Wales to Pennsylvania, Ohio and Wisconsin. Stone quarrymen went to Lithonia, Geargia; farmars to Minnesota and Illinois. Although I know of several emigrants from Anglesey in the 1700s, I don’t know where most of them went. I do know of one cousin in Virginia in the 1750s.

Just for fun, where specifically?

Pennsylvania is well known. Chicago (and specifically the area I'm in) has some Welsh named streets like Berwyn and Bryn Mawr only because they were named after Main Line stops in the Philadelphia area.

Do you know where your Ohio connections are? My likely Welsh connections are from Gallia and Jackson Co (my early 1800s French are also Gallia county).

My Welsh in WI were in Columbia Co., where at one point there was a large Welsh settlement.

I'd be happy to photograph gravestones in IL or WI for you, if they are findable.

Lirio100
01-20-2019, 07:01 AM
Trumbull County in Ohio had Welsh settlements from about 1850 on. There were small coal mines and mills there, along with tin workers. My great grandmother went to Ohio, her sister's family followed, her brother in law was a tin roller.

Jessie
01-20-2019, 10:28 AM
Demographics are changing rapidly in the USA, but I would say right now, without trying to do a lot of research, that the southern states region, i.e., the old Confederacy, is probably the most British/Irish region. I'm talking about overall ancestry. I realize there are Irish enclaves in places like Boston, New York, and San Francisco, as well.

Most of my matches in the US are in Boston, New York, California etc. Not so much the South. The largest amount are in New York and then somewhere north in Massacheutts with some in Boston and some in Rhode Island. Rhode Island is where my dad's family went to in approx the 1870s. After the east coast next largest group are in San Francisco and Los Angelos and then Chicago so all the cities.

Phoebe Watts
01-20-2019, 12:26 PM
Just for fun, where specifically?

Pennsylvania is well known. Chicago (and specifically the area I'm in) has some Welsh named streets like Berwyn and Bryn Mawr only because they were named after Main Line stops in the Philadelphia area.

Do you know where your Ohio connections are? My likely Welsh connections are from Gallia and Jackson Co (my early 1800s French are also Gallia county).

My Welsh in WI were in Columbia Co., where at one point there was a large Welsh settlement.

I'd be happy to photograph gravestones in IL or WI for you, if they are findable.

Thank you, that might be really useful.

There were lots of emigrants from all my lines. But as a taste:

Ohio: Yes, Gallia County features, from the 1830s perhaps. An aunt married a baptist minister and is buried in the Ebenezer chapel cemetery in Thurman. The later emigrants included colliers and tin workers to Steubenville and Trumbull County.

Wisconsin: 1830s Waukesha County; Dodgeville, Iowa County; then Racine; then far later in Shell Lake, Washburn County.

I see that there were emigrants to New York and Nebraska too. Some moved on very quickly, especially the coal miners and the ministers of religion.

I have references to Illinois but nothing specific yet. The Welsh presence seems to have been quite scattered there, but there were Welsh chapels in Chicago and in the mining areas.

In a summary of the 1890 US census showing people born in Wales, the top states are Pennsylvania 38k, Ohio 13k, then Wisconsin, Illinois and Iowa with about 4k each. Utah comes next at 2.4k. I think there were doubts about accuracy at the time, but the numbers seem to fit with the emigration patterns that Iím seeing for my own relatives.

FionnSneachta
01-20-2019, 01:28 PM
Most of my matches in the US are in Boston, New York, California etc. Not so much the South. The largest amount are in New York and then somewhere north in Massacheutts with some in Boston and some in Rhode Island. Rhode Island is where my dad's family went to in approx the 1870s. After the east coast next largest group are in San Francisco and Los Angelos and then Chicago so all the cities.

I'd be similar. Off the top of my head, most relatives seem to have gone to New York, New Jersey, Boston, Philadelphia, Rhode Island, California, Kentucky, Arizona and Illinois. No southern states for me either really except for one known relative who went to Kentucky.

Bollox79
01-20-2019, 02:45 PM
Hmm I figure I would join this discussion as I have very recent native (Gaelic) ancestry from both Ireland and Scotland (particularly the Hebrides/Highlands) via my Mother's family from Upper State New York near Lake Ontario and from Ontario and other Eastern parts of Canada (that ancestry all shows up in autosomal cousin matches from those parts of the Isles). My mother also has 2nd cousins in Ireland (my 3rd cousins) surname Egan and a few others - would have to check my cousin list.

Older English/Welsh/Scottish and Northern Irish (really only have extended cousins from American families in the NE since most of those families are from the 1600s) from early Colonists to Rhode Island and other parts of the NE and a maternal line recently arrived from Ireland (that Greatish Grandfather was "Paddy on the Railroad" literally as he was Irish and worked on the railroad!).

On my father's side Scots-Irish and Scottish from Pennsylvania (with some of my autosomal matches probably from that part of the fam - will test Mother to see which ones are on my Father's side - I get 3rd cousins from Northern Ireland - which would be from either side!), and a lot of German (Hessen, Rhineland, Prussian) and some Dutch/Netherlands ancestry and a small bit of further Eastern (Russian) via 5th cousins via my Father's mother's mother's father's family - German speakers from Bohemia and before that Germany. I recently sent off my 99 year old Grandmother Houck Weaver's DNA to FTDNA to see what turns up in her overall autosomal DNA and cousins list!

As far as location - The Irish in my Mom's father's side settled in upper State New York (and most - if not all - of her other Irish ancestors) and NE America. Her Irish grandmother's McGuire family was from Trenton across Lake Ontario and previous they had married MacAulays and probably MacDonalds of the Isles judging from Mom's (and mine) 3rd-4th cousins from the Hebrides and Highlands and a MacDonald who is a descendant of the R1a group that descends from Ranald MacDonald descendant of the MacDonald Chiefs etc. My mother's father's side were O'Dwyers from Kilnamanagh and later Clare and those McGuire/Highlanders were from Ontario. I also have some cousin matches from Scottish Highland areas of Canada (Cape Breton, PEI, St. George's Bay).

On her mother's side it's all old English and other Isles ancestry from early Colonials - some, but not a lot, of proper Celtic (native) in there. It mostly seems to be Essex families or Northern English families. Her maternal line though is 100% Irish and probably from either the SW (Tipperary?) or Roscommon.

Other than Dad's German/Dutch from Pennsylvania - the Scottish Burd family I get my middle name from - they were from Orminston in East Lothian and a family of soldiers (Colonel James Burd of Pennsylvania and the French and Indian War being one member of that family). They are said to be related to Scottish nobility - mainly Haliburton and Erskines. Also the Scots-Irish (so Scottish who settled in Northern Ireland for a number of generations before arriving in Pennsylvania) - many of those families stuck around Cumberland county south of Dauphin county (where my Weavers are from and judging from family trees my Weavers were most likely Rhineland or Lower Saxony or Prussian - I have plans to approach Weaver male lines about Y-DNA testing who show up in my and my father's cousin Weaver's DNA family circles at Ancestry - we both recently sent away our kits) - more than one Scots-Irish family in my Dad's side is from Cumberland county, Pennsylvania.

All my family state side are from the NE and parts of Canada! All my father's family is from Pennsylvania!

In terms of ethnicity I consider myself about half and half - a true Celto-Germani - though FTDNA gives me slightly more origin in the Isles and a bit less in Western Europe and Scandinavia!

Cheers,
Charlie

msmarjoribanks
01-20-2019, 04:41 PM
Most of my matches in the US are in Boston, New York, California etc. Not so much the South. The largest amount are in New York and then somewhere north in Massacheutts with some in Boston and some in Rhode Island. Rhode Island is where my dad's family went to in approx the 1870s. After the east coast next largest group are in San Francisco and Los Angelos and then Chicago so all the cities.

Irish enclaves in Chicago for sure, and Scots-Irish in Southern IL.

JonikW
01-21-2019, 09:59 PM
I see that my US matches who have chosen to show locations look like this on a map. I'm mixed Celtic (mostly Welsh) with some regions of England.
28540

RVBLAKE
01-21-2019, 10:28 PM
I wouldn't discount Louisiana, with its Cajun population. They are descended from Acadians, themselves descended from settlers from western France, i.e. Atlantic Celts.