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Rami
01-27-2019, 12:02 PM
Hi!

I received my reports this morning from 23andme!

My y-dna haplogroup is E-V65, mi paternal family is from Egypt (lower Egypt) (muslim family).

I would like to know the origin, if it arrive with any documented historical invasion, Neolithic migration, etc.

I have searched in google but I have not found much information, it seems that it is not very common...

Lupriac
01-27-2019, 02:42 PM
Hi!

I received my reports this morning from 23andme!

My y-dna haplogroup is E-V65, mi paternal family is from Egypt (lower Egypt) (muslim family).

I would like to know the origin, if it arrive with any documented historical invasion, Neolithic migration, etc.

I have searched in google but I have not found much information, it seems that it is not very common...

First of all Congratulations,

E-V65 is very typical of Northern Africans:

This sub-clade, equivalent to the previously classified "beta cluster", is found in high levels in the Maghreb regions of far northern Africa. Cruciani et al. (2007) report levels of about 20% amongst Libyan Arab lineages, and about 30% amongst Moroccan Arabs. It appears to be less common amongst Berbers, but still present in levels of >10%. The authors suggest a North African origin for this lineage. In Europe, only a few individuals were found in Italy and Greece.

Capelli et al. (2009) studied the beta cluster in Europe. They found small amounts in Southern Italy, but also traces in Cantabria, Portugal and Galicia, with Cantabria having the highest level in Europe in their study, at 3.1% (5 out of 161 people).

It (along E-V12 and E-V22) represents local Nile inhabitants and I don't recall any information regarding any Neolithic arrival or migration from somewhere into Egypt. Perhaps someone can also contribute.

Lupriac
01-27-2019, 02:47 PM
Bump.

Rami
01-28-2019, 06:31 PM
First of all Congratulations,

E-V65 is very typical of Northern Africans:

This sub-clade, equivalent to the previously classified "beta cluster", is found in high levels in the Maghreb regions of far northern Africa. Cruciani et al. (2007) report levels of about 20% amongst Libyan Arab lineages, and about 30% amongst Moroccan Arabs. It appears to be less common amongst Berbers, but still present in levels of >10%. The authors suggest a North African origin for this lineage. In Europe, only a few individuals were found in Italy and Greece.

Capelli et al. (2009) studied the beta cluster in Europe. They found small amounts in Southern Italy, but also traces in Cantabria, Portugal and Galicia, with Cantabria having the highest level in Europe in their study, at 3.1% (5 out of 161 people).

It (along E-V12 and E-V22) represents local Nile inhabitants and I don't recall any information regarding any Neolithic arrival or migration from somewhere into Egypt. Perhaps someone can also contribute.

Thanks for the congratulations!

I have seen that it isn't very common in Egypt, maybe it arrives when the libyans conquered Egypt?

Or my family name origin is from a modern libyan who emigrated to Egypt?



"It (along E-V12 and E-V22) represents local Nile inhabitants and I don't recall any information regarding any Neolithic arrival or migration from somewhere into Egypt. Perhaps someone can also contribute."

As far as I know the natufians (maybe the first farmers ever) migrated from South Canaan to Egypt in the Neolithic, and now the autosomal dna of egyptians is mostly natufian.

NetNomad
01-28-2019, 08:46 PM
Native North African lineage.

Lupriac
01-29-2019, 01:54 PM
Thanks for the congratulations!

I have seen that it isn't very common in Egypt, maybe it arrives when the libyans conquered Egypt?

Or my family name origin is from a modern libyan who emigrated to Egypt?



"It (along E-V12 and E-V22) represents local Nile inhabitants and I don't recall any information regarding any Neolithic arrival or migration from somewhere into Egypt. Perhaps someone can also contribute."

As far as I know the natufians (maybe the first farmers ever) migrated from South Canaan to Egypt in the Neolithic, and now the autosomal dna of egyptians is mostly natufian.
Meshwesh ancestry is very probable to be honest. But since E-V65 comes from M78 which was born (and is most common) in Egypt, I can't see any reason to deny the Egyptian origin of E-V65.

We do know that a Neolithic migration occurred circa 6000 BC and we have evidence of sudden change from usual hunter-gatherers to sedentary farming communities along the Nile. There are tons of similarities between the PPN material culture of Levant and Faiyum A.

The period from 9000 to 6000 BC has left very little in the way of archaeological evidence. Around 6000 BC, Neolithic settlements appear all over Egypt. Studies based on morphological, genetic, and archaeological data have attributed these settlements to migrants from the Fertile Crescent in the Near East returning during the Egyptian and North African Neolithic, bringing agriculture to the region.

And some of these similarities are mostly displayed by the Levantine Sickle and Wheat/Barley that reached Egypt. As well as domesticated livestock including Sheep, Cattle and Goats. These were brought by intrusive Levantine migrants, they were mostly represented by E-Z830, T-L206, and perhaps some R-V88 and G-M201.

Farroukh
02-03-2019, 02:52 AM
Rami, salam!
Yes, E-V65 is typical for Maghreeb countries and in Egypt it occurred relatively later. It formed ~8000 years ago, but most recent common ancestor of all living and tested persons lived just 2800 years ago.
The same age has E-M81, Berber lineage.

IMHO, the reason of mass death was cataclysm.
I talked about Atlantis legend.

jof2311
02-28-2019, 07:46 PM
E-v65 is perhaps the more indigenous clade in North Africa with its sister clade V12, it wouldn't be suprising if V65 is very ancient along the Nile ..

The Saite
03-04-2019, 11:06 AM
There is no evidences suggesting that E-V65 is "maghrebi" in origins .
E-V65 as well as the whole other E-V68 clades expect maybe E-V13 is strongly native to Egypt (largest percentages / largest diversity) ever found for them both is existing in Egypt ; just as soon as the upper / lower egyptian districts is deeply tested we will have the full picture ; Until then tho it's safe to say the previous conclusion based on Fregel et al 2009 / 2011 studies (of which the haplogroup predictor cites showed thier guanech mummies carrying both of E-V12 and E-V65) that suggests that both clades migrated together from thier place of origins .. which is "Egypt" (remember the guanech did practice mumification that the Berbers didn't) ; without mentioning that Nautaufians carried rare E-M35 clades (and they are archaeologicaly partially descendant from the egyptian harifians of upper Egypt)

ashraff
03-09-2019, 04:40 PM
this haplogroup is North African originated, it has a sister clade found in North Lake Chad called E-Y161041,
both E-V65 and E-Y161041 are 8700 years old and both are branched out of E-Z22639 son of E-Z1902 son of E-M78 which is found in Tafoghalt Morocco aged 13,500 calBCE
so, it is TYPICAL NORTH AFRICAN.

Being in Egypt, means it could be due migrations from west to east, and to determine your exact migration path, you need to do further tests to determine in which time had your ancestors migrated to Egypt.

The Saite
03-14-2019, 07:41 PM
aDNA findings has a role in determining Haplogroup's origin but yet isn't the "ultimate" aspect .. as example the paragroup IJ* was reported to be found in Grugni et al 2012 study of mesolithic Iranian bodies but the later late Paleolithic European Magdalenians were appionted to be carrying the more rare IJK* .. and in those either times these findings didn't affect the general idea of the central Asian origin of IJK in every scientific studies .. same thing for E-V68 ; it was found in taforalt via migrations from northeast africa (as expected by "trombetta et al 2011") .. migrations that brought caucasiods to north africa from Asia [evidenced from the first racial war to eliminate the proto khoisinids from north Africa known from the upper Egyptian Halfan area remains .. evidenced also from other archaeologic studies explaining the first industries of Egypt that battaglia et al 2008 study mentioned before in explaining E-V68 migrations] .
-- So it's normal for it to be existing in taforalt nothing surprising .. and thats why that up to now every 2019 / 2018 scientific study still consider E-V68 origins in the northeastern African egyptian heartland with thier full knowledge about taforalt results .

The Saite
03-14-2019, 07:42 PM
Your haplo is Egy in origins no doubt .. congrats for the results

StevenEv65
06-15-2019, 09:18 PM
Hello and welcome to our family. We share a grandfather and am also E-v65. I am one of the administrators of our haplogroup project. Please take the Big500 or Big700 Y test at www.familytreedna.com, then upload the file into www.yfull.com to have your family placed on the E-V65 haplogroup tree. It will give you a better picture of what your family line migration.

Mesamones
06-22-2019, 03:50 PM
There is no evidences suggesting that E-V65 is "maghrebi" in origins .
E-V65 as well as the whole other E-V68 clades expect maybe E-V13 is strongly native to Egypt (largest percentages / largest diversity) ever found for them both is existing in Egypt ; just as soon as the upper / lower egyptian districts is deeply tested we will have the full picture ; Until then tho it's safe to say the previous conclusion based on Fregel et al 2009 / 2011 studies (of which the haplogroup predictor cites showed thier guanech mummies carrying both of E-V12 and E-V65) that suggests that both clades migrated together from thier place of origins .. which is "Egypt" (remember the guanech did practice mumification that the Berbers didn't) ; without mentioning that Nautaufians carried rare E-M35 clades (and they are archaeologicaly partially descendant from the egyptian harifians of upper Egypt)

Paleolithic and Chalcolithic Northwest Africans carried E-M78* and E-V68*, E-M78 and its subclades are also found at higher frequencies among Guanches and Chaouis than among Ancient Egyptians and Copts. Libyans migrated and settled into Egypt since at least 2300 BC, some scholars even argue that the Delta was originally inhabited by Libyans before Narmer's aggressive expansion. It seems quite probable that all subclades of E-M35 found in Egypt, beside E-V22 and E-V32, are of Libyan origin.

As for the Natufians, they belonged to a subclade downstream of E-Z827 like the Western Libyans and they didn't mummify their deads, in fact, Pre-Dynastic Egyptians didn't practice mummification either.

Lupriac
06-22-2019, 06:13 PM
beside E-V22 and E-V32, are of Libyan origin.

I think you mean E-V12 ;)


As for the Natufians, they belonged to a subclade downstream of E-Z827 like the Western Libyans and they didn't mummify their deads, in fact, Pre-Dynastic Egyptians didn't practice mummification either.
Yeah but weren't the Natufians E-Z830? If I am correct this is a purely Levantine clade. Where do you think E-M81 originated considering Paleolithic and Chalcolithic Northwest Africans carried E-M78* and E-V68*?

Mesamones
06-23-2019, 12:38 AM
I think you mean E-V12 ;)
You're right.



Yeah but weren't the Natufians E-Z830? If I am correct this is a purely Levantine clade. Where do you think E-M81 originated considering Paleolithic and Chalcolithic Northwest Africans carried E-M78* and E-V68*?
E-Z830 is downstream of E-Z827.

IAM carried E-L19 and was undistinguishable from Taforalt, E-M81 most likely formed in the Mediterranean region and expanded into Africa later on.

VytautusofAukstaitija
06-23-2019, 01:39 AM
E-V12 doesn't look Libyan at all. I don't know where that random suggestion comes from.

E-V12* as of now looks clearly like an Upper Nile/Eastern Deserts lineage, not Libyan. It's basal clades are all in that region and heavily present in Bejas, Sudani and Egyptian Arabs, and Nubians. And Natufians most likely inherited E-Z830* from NE Africa, seeing both E-M123 and E-V1515 are both found in NE Africa, and E-V1515 being an essentially a NE African lineage at this point. This is supported by the possibility that Omotic E-M123 could have diverged from Natufian E-Z830 before the latter even came into existence, seeing the phylolinguistic basalness of Omotic within AA (and it's pre-Neolithic divergence), in addition to the Paleolithic North African admixture and the very old age of E-Z830 (7,000-9,000 years older than those Natufian samples). And E-V22 and E-V13's shared ancestor lineage also looks NE African, especially if E-V13's ancestor took the Anatolian route to Europe (And E-V13's basal and directly ancestral clades are pan-East Euro than West Euro).

And E-M81 as a non-Afro Mediterranean lineage? I don't remember seeing any E-M81 in aDNA from Mediterranean Europe and Asia. And E-L19 has a broadly western/NW African distribution of it's clades, not a non-African one.