View Full Version : Q-L804 as possible descendants of early migrants from Greenland?

02-03-2019, 05:26 AM
Dear friends,
Let me share my old speculative scenario about Q-L804 origin.

This haplogroup is too old (formation period 15 kya, brother branch of Q-M3 from New World), but it's TMRCA is extremely young (3,2 kya).

All living tested persons are from Norwegian sea costal region (Britain& Scandinavia). It guides me to consider them as descendants of a migrant from Greenland.

Eskimo people are known as good sea walkers and maybe one group of them moved from Greenland to pre-Germanic Northern Europe?

There are also the controversial theory about originof Q-L804 in Western Siberia with longlong way migration to Northern Europe.

02-04-2019, 08:34 AM
The thing is all the ancient eskimo samples from Saqqaq till Dorset culture are some sort of Q1a1 clade.

02-04-2019, 04:24 PM
Which SNP labels Q1a1?

02-04-2019, 05:19 PM
Which SNP labels Q1a1?

Q-F746 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-F746/)

02-04-2019, 05:24 PM
Q-NWT01 probably, samples are from this paper. http://science.sciencemag.org/content/345/6200/1255832/tab-figures-data

02-05-2019, 01:21 AM
Perhaps, Q-L804 completely expired in Greenland due to extremely hard life conditions in the past.

Also there is no Q-L804 from Siberia too. It guides me to place it homeland in the New Wirld like it's brother line Q-M3.

02-05-2019, 02:33 AM
Greenland was uninhabitable for a long time. The first occupation was by the Palaeo-Eskimo Saqqaq and Independence I cultures about 2500 BC. The only Y DNA from this period I know of is Saqqaq-1, who had Q1a1-NWT01, it is possible that they also had other haplogroups. These people did, in fact, largely or entirely die out; at least they left no clear mitochondrial or autosomal trace in modern Inuit.

Under Q-L53 there are Q-YP4004 and Q-L54. Q-YP4004 has both Asian and American branches. Q-L54 divides into Asian Q-L330, American Q-Z780, and Q-M930 (only a single SNP unites the last two). Then Q-M930 divides into European Q-L804 and American Q-M3. So Q-L53 splits into American and Eurasian branches at 3 different levels. The only remarkable thing about Q-L804 is that is restricted to Europe (so far - the same could be said until very recently for the most basal branch of N).

02-05-2019, 12:47 PM
Therefore I guess Q-L804 origin from relatively close Greenland, neither Eastern Siberia

02-05-2019, 03:31 PM
Your theory makes sense (especially geographically), but the young trmca is problematic, and if you add the clade L527 (trmca 3kya) to the equation it gets more difficult.

02-06-2019, 04:27 PM
Q-L527 and it's brother line Q-L932 are origin from Q-L940, completely Western Eurasian haplogroup. I see no connections with New World

02-06-2019, 09:06 PM
That is correct but the TRMCA and distribution pattern do not differ much

03-03-2019, 05:03 PM
Also let's keep in mind C1e mt-haplogroup from Iceland. C1a is completely Asiatic, C1b, C1d and C1c is typical for Native Americans.
Maybe, C1e is the one of the footprints of migrations from New World to Northern Europe?

03-17-2019, 06:07 PM
By the way...

Of course it is very interesting to see Russians (most likely they are not Russians, but peoples of Siberia) in the same sub-warehouse together with Greenlanders and Native Americans.