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Darko
02-04-2019, 05:59 PM
hi everyone , I need some help to find how R1a1 haplogroup is introduced in Tunisia and north africa in general, this haplogroup is very rare in this region and is its presence must be linked to a people or an event, I'm doing some research on the subject and I found that the best candidates are : vandals who came from eastern Germany and Founded a kingdom in Tunisia, romans, byzantines, arabs and turkish, so if anyone have remarks, historical information or ideas about this subject it will be most welcome.

uintah106
02-04-2019, 06:51 PM
Possibly Vandals, east Germanic tribe

spruithean
02-04-2019, 06:57 PM
Vandals (East Germanic) or Alans (Iranian nomadic people) would be a good bet in the case of Tunisia, especially with the Vandal kingdom in North Africa.

However we can't rule out other possibilities such as later Norman influence, at least when "Africa" at the time was part of Roger of Sicily's kingdom.

Do you have any Y-DNA matches? Do you have any indication of where they may be from?

Megalophias
02-04-2019, 07:23 PM
Could conceivably be something much earlier, e.g. a minor tag-along with R1b-V88 (R1a-YP1272 about same age as R1b-Y8451).

Ruderico
02-04-2019, 07:30 PM
You made the exact same thread a few years ago, why not just restart there?
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?9083-Haplogroup-R1A1-in-north-africa

spruithean
02-04-2019, 08:12 PM
Could conceivably be something much earlier, e.g. a minor tag-along with R1b-V88 (R1a-YP1272 about same age as R1b-Y8451).

Agreed. There are a number of possibilities, it's really hard to say honestly.

Darko
02-04-2019, 08:40 PM
Vandals (East Germanic) or Alans (Iranian nomadic people) would be a good bet in the case of Tunisia, especially with the Vandal kingdom in North Africa.

However we can't rule out other possibilities such as later Norman influence, at least when "Africa" at the time was part of Roger of Sicily's kingdom.

Do you have any Y-DNA matches? Do you have any indication of where they may be from?
Unfortunately I don't have matches

02-04-2019, 08:48 PM
hi everyone , I need some help to find how R1a1 haplogroup is introduced in Tunisia and north africa in general, this haplogroup is very rare in this region and is its presence must be linked to a people or an event, I'm doing some research on the subject and I found that the best candidates are : vandals who came from eastern Germany and Founded a kingdom in Tunisia, romans, byzantines, arabs and turkish, so if anyone have remarks, historical information or ideas about this subject it will be most welcome.

I suppose until more Tunisians are tested, and/or we dig up some Vandals it’s difficult to see where you cluster, I see there is a Belorussian in your Haplogroup but it’s 4000 yrs old, but interesting none the less, it could have got there on any known or as yet unknown events.
I think the Vandals probably would have been Corderedware which I think were mostly a sub Clade of R-Z283, so maybe a Persian/Byzantium event?

George
02-04-2019, 09:42 PM
hi everyone , I need some help to find how R1a1 haplogroup is introduced in Tunisia and north africa in general, this haplogroup is very rare in this region and is its presence must be linked to a people or an event, I'm doing some research on the subject and I found that the best candidates are : vandals who came from eastern Germany and Founded a kingdom in Tunisia, romans, byzantines, arabs and turkish, so if anyone have remarks, historical information or ideas about this subject it will be most welcome.


Acc. to Yfull, your R1a Y-Dna belongs to a very ancient offshoot of M459, which branched off about 12,000 yrs ago from the M198 to which most of today's "usual culprits" (:=)) belong. So I would very much doubt that relatively recent historical events associated with the expansion of M198 types would best explain its presence in Tunisia. Interestingly your closest current YDna Yfull result contacts (are you the Tunisian who is recorded there?) are noted as from Russia, Belarus, and Egypt. It seems likely that your branch also originated in the far north. But how and when it got to Africa remains a puzzle.

Darko
02-05-2019, 07:15 AM
Acc. to Yfull, your R1a Y-Dna belongs to a very ancient offshoot of M459, which branched off about 12,000 yrs ago from the M198 to which most of today's "usual culprits" (:=)) belong. So I would very much doubt that relatively recent historical events associated with the expansion of M198 types would best explain its presence in Tunisia. Interestingly your closest current YDna Yfull result contacts (are you the Tunisian who is recorded there?) are noted as from Russia, Belarus, and Egypt. It seems likely that your branch also originated in the far north. But how and when it got to Africa remains a puzzle.
Yes i'm the tunisian on yfull.

sweuro
02-05-2019, 11:58 AM
the arabs from north africa used slaves from slavic countries, that is also a possibility

Darko
02-05-2019, 08:34 PM
the arabs from north africa used slaves from slavic countries, that is also a possibility
yes squaliba and mamlouks from eastern Europe are part of our history in north africa and al andalous.

Darko
02-05-2019, 09:18 PM
What is intriguing me is to found the links between Egypt, north Caucasus, Tunisia and belorussia7300 years and 4000years ago (according to yfull tree) ? What migration would brought YP1272 or YP1276 from north Africa to Europe or from Europe to North Africa ?