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Tomenable
02-08-2019, 07:25 AM
This is the oldest known man with R1a-M417 which is ancestral to most of modern R1a:

https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/ancient-human-dna_41837#12/49.7132/37.6369

R1a-M417 ancestor I6561 Sredny Stog II, Alexandria (Ukrainian Steppe), ca. 3500 BC:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?221794-R1a-M417-in-Copper-Age-Alexandria

https://i.imgur.com/bOKc6On.png

https://i.imgur.com/AtZLd1i.png

https://i.imgur.com/kMy20tL.png

I have uploaded his DNA to GEDmatch Genesis.

Kit number on GEDmatch Genesis - ZL8105546

Eurogenes K13. Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 39.98
2 North_Atlantic 39.39
3 West_Asian 15.56
4 South_Asian 2.93
5 West_Med 1.16
6 Oceanian 0.7
7 Amerindian 0.27

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 North_Swedish 13.87
2 Southwest_Finnish 14.42
3 South_Polish 15.29
4 Polish 15.68
5 Finnish 16.09
6 Swedish 16.27
7 Ukrainian_Belgorod 16.71
8 Russian_Smolensk 16.87
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 16.97
10 Estonian 17.03
11 East_German 17.22
12 Ukrainian 17.44
13 Belorussian 17.47
14 North_German 17.54
15 Southwest_Russian 17.68
16 Hungarian 18.24
17 Estonian_Polish 18.25
18 Austrian 18.38
19 Norwegian 18.71
20 La_Brana-1 18.8

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 79.4% Southwest_Finnish + 20.6% Tabassaran @ 9.71
2 80.9% North_Swedish + 19.1% Tabassaran @ 9.92
3 80.8% Southwest_Finnish + 19.2% Lezgin @ 10.13
4 82% North_Swedish + 18% Lezgin @ 10.14
5 85.5% Southwest_Finnish + 14.5% Balochi @ 10.27
6 86% Southwest_Finnish + 14% Brahui @ 10.39
7 82.5% North_Swedish + 17.5% Chechen @ 10.4
8 81.2% Southwest_Finnish + 18.8% Chechen @ 10.42
9 87% North_Swedish + 13% Balochi @ 10.58
10 85.5% North_Swedish + 14.5% Kalash @ 10.63
11 87.4% North_Swedish + 12.6% Brahui @ 10.68
12 84.6% Southwest_Finnish + 15.4% Kalash @ 10.75
13 86.3% Southwest_Finnish + 13.7% Makrani @ 10.8
14 51.2% Swedish + 48.8% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 10.82
15 54.6% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 45.4% Norwegian @ 10.87
16 83.3% Southwest_Finnish + 16.7% Afghan_Pashtun @ 10.91
17 84.7% North_Swedish + 15.3% Afghan_Pashtun @ 10.95
18 85.2% North_Swedish + 14.8% North_Ossetian @ 11.02
19 87.8% North_Swedish + 12.2% Makrani @ 11.05
20 85.2% North_Swedish + 14.8% Adygei @ 11.1

Eurogenes K36 results:

98715 SNPs used in this evaluation

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque -
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 5.16 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 6.56 Pct
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 17.70 Pct
Fennoscandian 9.30 Pct
French 4.41 Pct
Iberian -
Indo-Chinese -
Italian -
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 20.16 Pct
North_Caucasian 8.21 Pct
North_Sea 21.89 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian 4.13 Pct
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 2.48 Pct
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med -

Similarity Map:

https://i.imgur.com/FDJJTMQ.png

Also, admixture data for this guy from the study:

https://i.imgur.com/8TbQ44f.png

Jenny
02-08-2019, 07:33 AM
Thanks for the interesting maps!

Tomenable
02-08-2019, 08:37 AM
How he plots in ph2ter's Eurogenes K13 Megaplot:

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?14617-Eurogenes-K13-PCA-Megaplot

https://i.imgur.com/jlXeWXj.png

JoeyP37
02-08-2019, 02:55 PM
Hola Grandfather. You were probably such a warrior stud. I find it interesting that his closest similarity map match is in the Orkneys! Mine is a trio of 79s in Bavaria, Swabia, and German Switzerland.

Tomenable
02-08-2019, 03:03 PM
the Orkneys

It is actually Mainland Scotland (AFAIK), but positions for some regions are a bit skewed on Tolan's map.

angscoire
02-08-2019, 03:59 PM
Wasn’t the Alexandria sample possibly under Z93 too ? I can’t remember exactly . Anyhow , the similarity map nicely conveys the strong impact of steppe ancestry in the north in contrast to the south .

parasar
02-08-2019, 05:25 PM
Wasn’t the Alexandria sample possibly under Z93 too ? I can’t remember exactly . Anyhow , the similarity map nicely conveys the strong impact of steppe ancestry in the north in contrast to the south .

That was reported but not confirmed.
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?3433-Waves-of-migration-into-South-Asia/page190

Coldmountains
02-08-2019, 06:06 PM
Wasn’t the Alexandria sample possibly under Z93 too ? I can’t remember exactly . Anyhow , the similarity map nicely conveys the strong impact of steppe ancestry in the north in contrast to the south .

Yes, some Russian guy on molgen.ru posted that he was under Y3, which is ancestral to Indo-Aryan R1a-L657. Semargl(y-dna expert) confirmed it on that Forum

parasar
02-08-2019, 07:00 PM
Yes, some Russian guy on molgen.ru posted that he was under Y3, which is ancestral to Indo-Aryan R1a-L657. Semargl(y-dna expert) confirmed it on that Forum
Hello Coldmountains,

Did Semargl confirm it? I can't read Russian, but tried google translate, and it was not very clear if he did, or if someone stated that he did. I think that region is where Z93 originated, but I am concerned that the sample appears a bit too old to be Y3.
Thanks.
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://forum.molgen.org/index.php%3Ftopic%3D9993.165&prev=search

Coldmountains
02-08-2019, 07:07 PM
Hello Coldmountains,

Did Semargl confirm it? I can't read Russian, but tried google translate, and it was not very clear if he did, or if someone stated that he did. I think that region is where Z93 originated, but I am concerned that the sample appears a bit too old to be Y3.
Thanks.
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://forum.molgen.org/index.php%3Ftopic%3D9993.165&prev=search

He wrote that he asked Semargl and Semargl confirmed it to him (the "he" in the translation is a mistranslation). As far as i know Y-full tends to underestimate the age of many clades (20%) but you are right it is not 100% confirmed.

Coldmountains
02-08-2019, 07:19 PM
This is the oldest known man with R1a-M417 which is ancestral to most of modern R1a:

https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/ancient-human-dna_41837#12/49.7132/37.6369

R1a-M417 ancestor I6561 Sredny Stog II, Alexandria (Ukrainian Steppe), ca. 3500 BC:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?221794-R1a-M417-in-Copper-Age-Alexandria

https://i.imgur.com/bOKc6On.png

https://i.imgur.com/AtZLd1i.png

https://i.imgur.com/kMy20tL.png

I have uploaded his DNA to GEDmatch Genesis.

Kit number on GEDmatch Genesis - ZL8105546

Eurogenes K13. Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 39.98
2 North_Atlantic 39.39
3 West_Asian 15.56
4 South_Asian 2.93
5 West_Med 1.16
6 Oceanian 0.7
7 Amerindian 0.27

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 North_Swedish 13.87
2 Southwest_Finnish 14.42
3 South_Polish 15.29
4 Polish 15.68
5 Finnish 16.09
6 Swedish 16.27
7 Ukrainian_Belgorod 16.71
8 Russian_Smolensk 16.87
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 16.97
10 Estonian 17.03
11 East_German 17.22
12 Ukrainian 17.44
13 Belorussian 17.47
14 North_German 17.54
15 Southwest_Russian 17.68
16 Hungarian 18.24
17 Estonian_Polish 18.25
18 Austrian 18.38
19 Norwegian 18.71
20 La_Brana-1 18.8

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 79.4% Southwest_Finnish + 20.6% Tabassaran @ 9.71
2 80.9% North_Swedish + 19.1% Tabassaran @ 9.92
3 80.8% Southwest_Finnish + 19.2% Lezgin @ 10.13
4 82% North_Swedish + 18% Lezgin @ 10.14
5 85.5% Southwest_Finnish + 14.5% Balochi @ 10.27
6 86% Southwest_Finnish + 14% Brahui @ 10.39
7 82.5% North_Swedish + 17.5% Chechen @ 10.4
8 81.2% Southwest_Finnish + 18.8% Chechen @ 10.42
9 87% North_Swedish + 13% Balochi @ 10.58
10 85.5% North_Swedish + 14.5% Kalash @ 10.63
11 87.4% North_Swedish + 12.6% Brahui @ 10.68
12 84.6% Southwest_Finnish + 15.4% Kalash @ 10.75
13 86.3% Southwest_Finnish + 13.7% Makrani @ 10.8
14 51.2% Swedish + 48.8% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 10.82
15 54.6% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 45.4% Norwegian @ 10.87
16 83.3% Southwest_Finnish + 16.7% Afghan_Pashtun @ 10.91
17 84.7% North_Swedish + 15.3% Afghan_Pashtun @ 10.95
18 85.2% North_Swedish + 14.8% North_Ossetian @ 11.02
19 87.8% North_Swedish + 12.2% Makrani @ 11.05
20 85.2% North_Swedish + 14.8% Adygei @ 11.1

Eurogenes K36 results:

98715 SNPs used in this evaluation

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque -
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 5.16 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 6.56 Pct
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 17.70 Pct
Fennoscandian 9.30 Pct
French 4.41 Pct
Iberian -
Indo-Chinese -
Italian -
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 20.16 Pct
North_Caucasian 8.21 Pct
North_Sea 21.89 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian 4.13 Pct
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 2.48 Pct
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med -

Similarity Map:

https://i.imgur.com/FDJJTMQ.png

Also, admixture data for this guy from the study:

https://i.imgur.com/8TbQ44f.png

Eurogenes K36 and the other calculators based on modern components are very inaccurate for any ancient people. We can not model ancient people as mixture of modern people because they are the ancestors of modern people and not the other way around. This is the same like modelling a man as mixture of his children.

02-08-2019, 07:36 PM
Thanks for the post, very interesting.

Tomenable
02-09-2019, 09:36 PM
He has matches with modern people in One-To-Many, including one Telugu Brahmin from Andhra Pradesh.

Jan_Noack
02-13-2019, 09:34 AM
This is the same as modelling a man as a mixture of his children. I thought you could do that, ie model a father based on his children provided there were at least 10 kids and you had the mother, or in my fathers family , there are 13 children with the same father ..3 (including him) fromhis first wife, and the other 10 from his 2nd wife. Surely it should be possible to "recreate" a "father" if all children sampled.. better still with more from the first wife? As it is I can look for "in common" with my father's half sibling who has tested to narrow down the matches to his father's relatives.

Dibran
02-15-2019, 06:29 PM
I thought you could do that, ie model a father based on his children provided there were at least 10 kids and you had the mother, or in my fathers family , there are 13 children with the same father ..3 (including him) fromhis first wife, and the other 10 from his 2nd wife. Surely it should be possible to "recreate" a "father" if all children sampled.. better still with more from the first wife? As it is I can look for "in common" with my father's half sibling who has tested to narrow down the matches to his father's relatives.

Are you predicted L1029? noticed it just now. Surprised how that got to Ireland. Perhaps a Pomeranian viking.

Jan_Noack
02-17-2019, 06:43 AM
Are you predicted L1029? noticed it just now. Surprised how that got to Ireland. Perhaps a Pomeranian viking.

My father is predicted L1029, He has north-west Slav looks and golden brown skin(not as golden as Scandinavian)- no freckles, blue eyes and golden brown to blonde hair. He comes from Oder River - northern Silesia-Brandenburg area. YDNA ancestry from Crossen an der Oder but probably from down near Czechoslovakia the generation before as I found others with a similar surname who had recently been born there and moved to Crossen. I thought maybe some wend/Sorb but they said it was too far to the East (not a long way northeast of Lusatia though). I posted a 20XWGS to Full genomes but it hasn't arrived and they have just sent me out another collection kit. Pity as I took a lot of trouble to get a great sample. Can anyone help me in HOW they posted the tubes back? I just put them in an envelope wrapped in bubble wrap-placed inside a bubble wrap envelope(actually one that FTDNA had sent me for return mail), put a label on it and sent as a letter. I did enclose the Full genomes customs form for the US customs but that was inside the envelope. I sent airmail letter rate with no tracking as it was $25 more for tracking and I've never had any worry sending to FTDNA that way. My problem was there is a new form for customs in Australia. Is used to just write "genealogical data" on the test..and this form allowed for NO writing. It was either animal/palnt..and this was not allowed to be posted. Biological material like blood (and this was Not allowed to be posted), documents, commercial samples (and this required business documentation), or a gift? As I had a few forms in it, I picked documents. Then the post office lady who was not the same friendly helpful person who used to be there, said you don't need a customs declaration for documents. So how do others get their samples into the US and past customs? What do they put on the label? ThanKs. I have sent about 8 samples before but that was 2016. The forms changed in Aug 2018. Looking later on the web on Australia post site, I also think I was given a CN23 instead of a CN22.. Totally confused here. It's $25 extra for tracking and that would probably alert customs but I guess I'll try that next time? feedback appreciated here. I'm really looking forward to comparing the results with you Dibran..just as to how the R1a migration paths went.

solarius
11-12-2019, 01:36 AM
He has matches with modern people in One-To-Many, including one Telugu Brahmin from Andhra Pradesh.

He's a closer match to that Telegu Brahmin than he is to my father as I can't find this kit in his matches.