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Ruderico
02-08-2019, 03:35 PM
Hola, chicos!


I will be posting in english since it's easier for me to do so without butchering grammar too much, and also because it opens the topic to whoever might be interested in contributing and discussing. I was interested in making a simple study about the variation of different sources of ancestry within non-Basque Iberian populations, so I made a simple model in nMonte3 using regular/unscaled G25 coordinates with the standard penalty, as advised by Huijbregts. Some people prefer scaled coordinates, but I'm sticking to my guns.

I'm not striving for exact ancestry proportions, but rather on how these vary across the peninsula. There are multiple ways of making these models, I decided to go by populations from around the Iron and Bronze Ages, however since there are no IA samples form Iberia avaliable, I used a few others as proxies. I'm not dogmatic about the model choice, if you feel these populations should be changed, and a few others added feel free to give your input or post your own models (G25 unscaled, pen=0.001). I'll make a quick explanation of why I used these references before moving on to the results.


Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1 - Since Ryu's report about the Italian study placed the bulk of Imperial Roman samples around modern day South Italians/Sicilians/Greeks, I'm using these individuals as a proxy for Imperial Roman ancestry. It might not be perfect, but it should be close enough for its purpose;
Hallstatt_Bylany - Proxy for Celtic-like ancestry in Iberia, I'm keeping this reference for the bulk of Steppe-related ancestry in the model. I'm not expecting pre-Roman Iberians to be exactly like Hallstatt Celts of the Czech Republic, so I'll add something else to compensate;
Iberia_Central_CA - So I chose this one. I suppose any Bronze Age Iberian samples without Steppe ancestry would work too, but for some reason I'm getting slightly better fits with this one, hence my choice. I'd wager Hallstatt+Iberia_CA to represent pre-Roman ancestry in Iberia without extra Mediterranean ancestry;
Levant_BA_North - Proxy for Levantine ancestry, it's more recent and contains higher Armenia_EBA (which I won't be using in the model) ancestry than Levant_BA_South;
Iberomaurusian - I was actually really torn between using this or the Guanche11 sample. The latter is identical to modern Moroccans, but would probably make a lot of sense given it's dated from the 8th century. However it contains Steppe and EEF ancestry, and as a consequence Guanche11 score would vary depending on the other references. I decided to use Iberomaurusian simply because it's a North African-specific source of ancestry and and not related to other groups at all.


As I said, I'm not dogmatic about this choice of references, it's just a way to start.

Below are the results for different regions of the peninsula. Keep in mind that some/most references were built with only 3 or 4 samples, so it's best not to take the results too literally. Besides there's personal variation to account for, and so few references doesn't do it enough justice.



[1] "distance%=1.3894"

Portuguese

Hallstatt_Bylany,55.8
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,24.8
Iberia_Central_CA,15
Iberomaurusian,4.4



[1] "distance%=1.6827"

Spanish_Galicia

Hallstatt_Bylany,54.8
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,20.6
Iberia_Central_CA,17.6
Iberomaurusian,4
Levant_BA_North,3



[1] "distance%=1.2435"

Spanish_Extremadura

Hallstatt_Bylany,55.4
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,21.4
Iberia_Central_CA,16
Iberomaurusian,4.4
Levant_BA_North,2.8



[1] "distance%=1.5468"

Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon

Hallstatt_Bylany,65.6
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,16.6
Iberia_Central_CA,13.2
Iberomaurusian,4.2
Levant_BA_North,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.3953"

Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha

Hallstatt_Bylany,60.4
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,18.8
Iberia_Central_CA,17.2
Iberomaurusian,1.8
Levant_BA_North,1.8



[1] "distance%=1.4491"

Spanish_Andalucia

Hallstatt_Bylany,56.8
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,24.8
Iberia_Central_CA,15.8
Iberomaurusian,2.6



[1] "distance%=1.8151"

Spanish_Cantabria

Hallstatt_Bylany,63.6
Iberia_Central_CA,20
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,14.6
Iberomaurusian,1.8



[1] "distance%=0.9897"

Spanish_Murcia

Hallstatt_Bylany,53.6
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,23
Iberia_Central_CA,18.8
Iberomaurusian,2.4
Levant_BA_North,2.2



[1] "distance%=2.1694"

Spanish_Valencia

Hallstatt_Bylany,66.2
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,14.8
Iberia_Central_CA,13.6
Levant_BA_North,3.4
Iberomaurusian,2



[1] "distance%=1.4463"

Spanish_Cataluna

Hallstatt_Bylany,63
Iberia_Central_CA,17.6
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,17
Iberomaurusian,2.4



[1] "distance%=1.6205"

Spanish_Aragon

Hallstatt_Bylany,61.8
Iberia_Central_CA,18.6
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,17
Iberomaurusian,2.6



[1] "distance%=1.4115"

Spanish_Baleares

Hallstatt_Bylany,57
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,28.4
Iberia_Central_CA,13.6
Iberomaurusian,1



[1] "distance%=1.8168"

Spanish_Canarias

Hallstatt_Bylany,54.8
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,21.2
Iberia_Central_CA,15.2
Iberomaurusian,7.8
Levant_BA_North,1



Guess that some people are scoring Levant_BA_N by getting a lower amount of Collegno (or the other way around), so I'm not too happy about this choice in particular, it might not be very useful to begin with.
Hallstatt seems to be highest in the north and dropping as you move away - although I suspect some "Basque effect" might be in play, as they would score high Hallstatt aswell, but because of higher HG ancestry, not necessarily Steppe-related one.
On the other hand the Roman proxy is clearly higher in the south, and around coastal areas, the Baleares in particular seem to score a very high amount of it.
And finally, as expected, North African-specific ancestry is higher in the West, and gradually lowers as you move East.

A simplistic analysis indicates the Portuguese reference as perhaps the least autochthonous of the bunch, increasing as you move close to the north/northeast, although as you'll see below personal variation rules a simple scenario out of the window. It may be a trend, but hardly a rule.



Edit: Made a list with Colegno+Levant_BA_North for all the above regions
Portugal 24,8
Galicia 23,6
Extremadura 24,2
Castilla y León 17,0
Castilla La Mancha 20,6
Andalucia 24,8
Cantabria 14,6
Murcia 25,2
Valencia 18,2
Catalonia 17,0
Aragón 14,0
Baleares 28,4
Canarias 22,2

Same, but with the supposed pre-Roman references (Hallstatt+Iberia)
Portugal 70,8
Galicia 72,4
Extremadura 71,4
Castilla y León 78,8
Castilla La Mancha 77,6
Andalucia 72,6
Cantabria 83,6
Murcia 72,4
Valencia 79,8
Catalonia 80,6
Aragón 80,4
Baleares 70,6
Canarias 70,0





Below I'll post a few results for Portuguese forum members and relatives, just for fun. If you are Iberian and want to be added, just post your G25 unscaled coordinates.
For reference:
Ruderico - North-centre
MrsRuderico - East (next to Extremadura)
rxavierflima - Northwest
elisabetenjoaquim - West
Lusitano - Centre



[1] "distance%=2.4744"

Ruderico

Hallstatt_Bylany,67.2
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,15.8
Iberia_Central_CA,13
Iberomaurusian,3.8
Levant_BA_North,0.2



[1] "distance%=1.886"

MrsRuderico

Hallstatt_Bylany,58.2
Iberia_Central_CA,19.2
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,15.4
Iberomaurusian,5.8
Levant_BA_North,1.4



[1] "distance%=2.0812"

rxavierflima

Hallstatt_Bylany,60.6
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,24.6
Iberia_Central_CA,10.8
Iberomaurusian,4



[1] "distance%=1.4475"

elisabetenjoaquim

Hallstatt_Bylany,65.4
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,15.6
Iberia_Central_CA,9.8
Iberomaurusian,4.6
Levant_BA_North,4.6



[1] "distance%=2.0187"

Lusitano

Hallstatt_Bylany,62.2
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,21.6
Iberia_Central_CA,11.6
Iberomaurusian,4.6

Edit2: Same Collegno+Levant_BA_North as above
Ruderico 16,0
MrsRuderico 16,8
rxavierflima 24,6
elisabetenjoaquim 20,2
Lusitano 21,6

And Hallstatt+Iberia
Ruderico 80,2
MrsRuderico 77,4
rxavierflima 71,4
elisabetenjoaquim 75,2
Lusitano 73,8

hartaisarlag
02-08-2019, 04:29 PM
Can you refer me to a source (or give a quick summary) of regional population genetic differences within Portugal? Familiar with the situation across the border, but knowledge of inter-regional differences in Portugal might clear up some issues I’m having modeling crypto-Jews from Trás-is-Montes.

Ruderico
02-08-2019, 04:48 PM
Can you refer me to a source (or give a quick summary) of regional population genetic differences within Portugal? Familiar with the situation across the border, but knowledge of inter-regional differences in Portugal might clear up some issues I’m having modeling crypto-Jews from Trás-is-Montes.

Unfortunetly we don't have such information, eyeballing though various results from Gedmatch calculators is very difficult to establish any form of regional variation because you find people with ancestry from roughly the same region with "very different" results. It may be that personal variation is more important than regional variation (although to be fair I haven't seem results explicitly from the south of the country).
This seems to be in line with PCA plots in which Portugal and Spain have a very large overlap (https://www.ancestrycdn.com/dna/static/images/ethnicity/help/PCA.jpg), it appears Portugal despite its small size holds a fair degree of internal variation. For example, as you can see my result is virtually the same as the Castilla y León reference. My ancestry centroid is relatively close to that of rxavierflima's (we even have ancestors from the same parish), except more eastern. Similarly my missus place of origin is not too far from Lusitano's, yet our results are nothing alike.

Xavier and I have been trying to persuade more people into getting their G25 coordinates, so we could try to spot regional differences, but so far we've been unsuccesful

Ruderico
02-08-2019, 07:14 PM
To put things in prespective I decided to make a few G25 scatter plots with different datasets, just to see how each group (and individuals) change their relative position as the dataset has additional references.

Each group will have its unique colour, which I'll list below. Individuals will be easier to spot because they'll have their name standing next to their symbol.

Basques - darkblue
French_South - darkblue
Pais Vasco - green
Portuguese - mediumblue
Andalucia - darkgreen
Aragon - orangered
Baleares - yellow
Canarias - lime
Cantabria - saddlebrown
Castilla La Mancha - gold
Castilla y León - purple
Catalonia - crimson
Extremadura - black
Galicia - skyblue
Murcia - olive
Valencia - orange

I'll start off with a scatterplot exclusively with Iberian populations, just for future reference.

https://i.postimg.cc/JR9WHFmb/Iberia.png




Next we'll add North African populations, to check who gets pulled the most. Since the scatter plot will make the Iberian cluster smaller and thus harder to read, you can see a zoomed image here (https://i.postimg.cc/PrCY9JCv/Iberia-na-zoom.png).
As expected from the previous model, Canarians and West Iberians get to plot closer to North African populations than the rest. One Portuguese sample seems to be pulled as much or more than Canarians, for some reason.
https://i.postimg.cc/TGp1bzvs/Iberia-na.png



The following scatter plot includes (north)West Europeans and all Italian populations (including Sardinians).
The mediterranean cline is easily spotted, with South and West Iberians being more affected by it. Here's the zoomed scatter plot (https://i.postimg.cc/ZZxmCjCQ/Iberia-weuro-zoom.png)
https://i.postimg.cc/3Y93b9hG/Iberia-weuro.png



And finally the standard scatter plot with all European populations, which you're probably already used to see.
Once again you can see the zoomed version (https://i.postimg.cc/vbyBwt47/Iberia-europe-zoom.png).
https://i.postimg.cc/BJs1NG50/Iberia-europe.png




As I said in the previous post, the Portuguese references seem to harbour quite a bit of variation between them, which is kind of unexpected for a small country. The similar thing might happen with the Spanish regions, but unfortunetly G25 doesn't have enough samples to confirm it

rxavierflima
02-08-2019, 10:56 PM
Bom trabalho!

Há uma coisa que não percebo segundo o teu modelo: o que me faz tender para a Itália é ter mais Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1 mas o que é faz elisabete tender para a França? Não é ter Hallstatt_Bylany mais alta por si só porque tu tens ainda mais. Pelo que percebo é ter também bastante Levant_BA_North em comparação com os outros. Mas isso dá a entender que o que separa os franceses dos portugueses é o facto dos primeiros terem mais sangue do médio oriente, o que nao me parece correcto. Isto é o tal problema de passar 25 eixos para 2?

Ruderico
02-09-2019, 07:03 AM
É possível, mas também acho que o modelo inicial é demasiado simples para fazer essa distinção, ja que tanto a Elisabete como eu temos valores altos de Hallstatt, mas ela tende para França enquanto que eu para o Norte de Espanha. Já a minha namorada plota relativamente perto de mim e tem menos 20%..

Penso que o mais útil deste modelo é ver como as referências usadas como proxy variam ao longo da península, especialmente as do Norte de África e Romana, mas ainda assim se calhar o modelo precisava de ser aperfeiçoado. Com tempo e novas samples lá chegaremos


Por falar em Romanos, há isto. As Baleares foram durante muito tempo parte do império romano, talvez explique terem tanto de Collegno
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Romancoloniae.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/Hispania_560_AD.PNG

etrusco
02-11-2019, 09:58 AM
Amigos


Sorry to post in English but at least since a couple of week I decided to learn Spanish ( by myself). I found this interesting article and I want to share with you.

http://elcorreoweb.es/cultura/un-arqueologo-sevillano-relaciona-la-escritura-tartesica-con-la-prehistoria-AC1136938?fbclid=IwAR3jr23ZizaSSp5D6vs-F5ozdB8IuoWzeOFWRtYzZ8OhVzWo5UBd5v0Gc5s

Saludos del milanesado!

Ruderico
02-12-2019, 01:55 PM
Bom trabalho!

Há uma coisa que não percebo segundo o teu modelo: o que me faz tender para a Itália é ter mais Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1 mas o que é faz elisabete tender para a França? Não é ter Hallstatt_Bylany mais alta por si só porque tu tens ainda mais. Pelo que percebo é ter também bastante Levant_BA_North em comparação com os outros. Mas isso dá a entender que o que separa os franceses dos portugueses é o facto dos primeiros terem mais sangue do médio oriente, o que nao me parece correcto. Isto é o tal problema de passar 25 eixos para 2?


I decided to pick up from here, because the previous model was indeed unable to distinguish between different sources of "northern" admixture.

Certain individuals or groups scored similar amounts of Hallstatt but plot in very different areas of the Iberian cluster with other European populations present - Elisabete plots on the border between Iberia and France, while I plot near Cantabria, closer to Basque individuals, just as an example. This is symptomatic of a higher degree of Northwestern/Central European ancestry in her, so I decided to get rid of the Iberia_Central_CA and replace it with a reference from a similar time period and region which already harbours steppe ancestry. So I went with the most obvious, Iberia_BA, which should have around half the amount of steppe ancestry as the Hallstatt reference, while having higher WHG and more affinity with Basques. I also got rid of the Levant_BA_North, as it was only occasionally appearing but always in small quantities. Just to test it, I preemptively ran Basque_Spanish, just to check it they indeed get a large chunk of Iberia_BA

[1] "distance%=1.2471"

Basque_Spanish

Iberia_BA,76.8
Hallstatt_Bylany,23.2




The model's fits improve a bit too, which is good. I'll remind everyone that the regional references were built few samples, so the results shouldn't be taken too literally.



[1] "distance%=1.1336"

Portuguese

Hallstatt_Bylany,37.8
Iberia_BA,34
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,23.8
Iberomaurusian,4.4



[1] "distance%=0.8771"

Spanish_Extremadura

Hallstatt_Bylany,35.8
Iberia_BA,35.6
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,24.2
Iberomaurusian,4.4



[1] "distance%=1.3905"

Spanish_Galicia

Iberia_BA,39.6
Hallstatt_Bylany,31.6
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,24.8
Iberomaurusian,4



[1] "distance%=1.3863"

Spanish_Cantabria

Iberia_BA,49.6
Hallstatt_Bylany,33.2
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,16.2
Iberomaurusian,1



[1] "distance%=1.2908"

Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon

Hallstatt_Bylany,45.2
Iberia_BA,30.8
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,19.8
Iberomaurusian,4.2



[1] "distance%=1.0367"

Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha

Iberia_BA,40.8
Hallstatt_Bylany,36
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,21.8
Iberomaurusian,1.4



[1] "distance%=1.1052"

Spanish_Andalucia

Iberia_BA,38
Hallstatt_Bylany,34.8
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,25
Iberomaurusian,2.2



[1] "distance%=0.6667"

Spanish_Murcia

Iberia_BA,39
Hallstatt_Bylany,34.4
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,24.4
Iberomaurusian,2.2



[1] "distance%=1.781"

Spanish_Valencia

Hallstatt_Bylany,40.6
Iberia_BA,40.4
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,17.6
Iberomaurusian,1.4



[1] "distance%=1.1052"

Spanish_Cataluna

Iberia_BA,40
Hallstatt_Bylany,37.8
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,20.2
Iberomaurusian,2



[1] "distance%=1.2159"

Spanish_Aragon

Iberia_BA,45.4
Hallstatt_Bylany,34.2
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,18.4
Iberomaurusian,2



[1] "distance%=1.2659"

Spanish_Baleares

Hallstatt_Bylany,39.8
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,30.2
Iberia_BA,29.4
Iberomaurusian,0.6



[1] "distance%=1.4812"

Spanish_Canarias

Iberia_BA,38.6
Hallstatt_Bylany,30.6
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,22.8
Iberomaurusian,8


And below, on a separate group, the same individual Portuguese samples as before. You can check the G25 PCA plot again here (https://i.postimg.cc/vbyBwt47/Iberia-europe-zoom.png)
Again, for reference:
Ruderico - North-centre
MrsRuderico - East (next to Extremadura)
rxavierflima - Northwest
elisabetenjoaquim - West
Lusitano - Centre



[1] "distance%=2.2305"

Ruderico

Hallstatt_Bylany,43.4
Iberia_BA,34.4
Roman_Collegno_o1,18.4
Iberomaurusian,3.8



[1] "distance%=1.6532"

MrsRuderico

Iberia_BA,42.2
Hallstatt_Bylany,33.2
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,18.8
Iberomaurusian,5.8



[1] "distance%=1.8313"

rxavierflima

Hallstatt_Bylany,41.6
Iberia_BA,30.8
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,23.4
Iberomaurusian,4.2



[1] "distance%=1.2707"

elisabetenjoaquim

Hallstatt_Bylany,48.8
Iberia_BA,23.6
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,23
Iberomaurusian,4.6



[1] "distance%=1.8386"

Lusitano

Hallstatt_Bylany,43.4
Iberia_BA,29.2
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,22.4
Iberomaurusian,5



Looking at the regional frequencies again, Hallstatt peaks in Castilla y León - although this component can be picking up more recent CEU ancestry than simply Hallstatt groups that moved into Iberia since the late Bronze/early Iron Ages. This makes sense, given it's where most of the Meseta is located, and it has been historically important in the process of IE influence in Iberia, notably Cogotas I (https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Antonio_Blanco-Gonzalez/publication/276167580/figure/fig2/AS:[email protected]74/Colour-online-Spatial-representation-of-Cogotas-I-and-El-Argar-cultures-in-Iberia-as.png) and II (https://conocerespanablog.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/116464075.jpg), earlier Beaker influence (https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4EQZ4GMihEE/XFnxypUkaMI/AAAAAAAAizE/CGdqokaRS2oHeOmpAUFWrjh00APb4vpngCLcBGAs/s1600/Capture.JPG), although mostly on the Castilla area, closer to Aragón (https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RdjRIQo45xg/XFvKK5i7ATI/AAAAAAAAHi8/7yEfzHB4jMQHo6dtrkDylg044q4tykBRQCLcBGAs/s1600/Mapping_Beakers.jpg), and even later Celtiberian tribes (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/Mapa-celtiberos.svg/1024px-Mapa-celtiberos.svg.png), also on the easternmost areas.

Galicia scores relatively low, not totally unexpected as its process of Celtisation was late, and continued even by the time Romans were fighting Celtiberians further East. Although this could simply be the consequence of the very few samples avaliable. Also predictable that populations close to Basques scored high Iberia_BA, notably Cantabria.

rxavierflima
02-12-2019, 09:41 PM
Agora eu e a elisabete temos o mesmo de Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1. Talvez fosse melhor manter o Levant_BA_North por causa dela lol

Dito isto, acho que este modelo faz bem mais sentido!

rxavierflima
02-12-2019, 09:44 PM
Galicia scores relatively low, not totally unexpected as its process of Celtisation was late, and continued even by the time Romans were fighting Celtiberians further East. Although this could simply be the consequence of the very few samples avaliable. Also predictable that populations close to Basques scored high Iberia_BA, notably Cantabria.

Curioso. Então isto (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Celtic_nations_%2B_Galicia_and_Asturias_in_Eu rope_(bordered).svg) não tem razão de ser?


(Podes responder em inglês!)

Ruderico
02-13-2019, 10:43 AM
Agora eu e a elisabete temos o mesmo de Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1. Talvez fosse melhor manter o Levant_BA_North por causa dela lol

Dito isto, acho que este modelo faz bem mais sentido!

I'm not quite sure, in the previous model you both (aswell as Lusitano) had similar scores of "Collegno+Levant", in this model you all have roughly the same "Collegno" aswell, so it seems relatively accurate, although I should add that, were I to use Guanche11 instead of Iberomaurusian, the Collegno score would drop for everyone. For example:

[1] "distance%=1.7363"

rxavierflima

Hallstatt_Bylany,40
Iberia_BA,29
Roman_Collegno_o1,18.4
Guanche,12.6

So that's ~18.5% in this model VS ~23.5% in the previous one in your case. I can rerun this one, if people find it better, but the trends will still be the same, which is what I was looking for. On the other hand the missus and I score really low Collegno, but I guess that's not too unexpected when looking at the PCA plot, we're more western than any of you.
And Elisabete has an impressive Hallstatt score! I was expecting her to have a lot, but not nearly 50%.

Don't know if there's any regional shenanigans being responsible for this, or if it's just each of us having our own personal variation. It's tempting to say people from the interior might tend to score lower Collegno, but these are too few samples to make a proper case..besides my missus' family is from a village some 10km away from northern Extremadura, but their regional results are pretty different, so maybe not.





Curioso. Então isto (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Celtic_nations_%2B_Galicia_and_Asturias_in_Eu rope_(bordered).svg) não tem razão de ser?


(Podes responder em inglês!)
Well that might be mostly a cultural thing, Celts were a culture (or language fmaily) moreso than an actual people, even England_IA and Hallstatt_Bylany appear to be pretty different (https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-optx810q0Ww/W6wo_3TtzTI/AAAAAAAAHP0/SBpyoC044r8yEr7xR_E7XidiMxUhIRABACLcBGAs/s1600/Prehistoric_Britain_%2526_Ireland_PCA.png). Whether that cultural connection is significant and deep, or rather something that was (re)developed ever since archaeology proved the Celtic connection (Celtic revival), I don't know. It might be a stretch, at least in the case of Asturias. Personally all these revival movements seem a bit forced to me

jeanL
02-13-2019, 11:03 AM
Lo de los Guanches bajando el porcentaje Romano es porque los Guanches son una mezcla Europea(Prob Romanos o Griegos)+Norte_African+Medio_Oriente (Fenicios o algo más).

[1] "distance%=3.6298"

Guanche:guanche2_scaled

Globular_Amphora,41.8
Iberomaurusian,22.7
Armenia_ChL,18.5
Anatolia_ChL,8.3
Yoruba,7.2
Clovis,1.4
Tanzania_Luxmanda_3000BP,0.1
Blatterhole_HG,0
Ethiopia_4500BP,0
Iberia_ChL,0
Malawi_Fingira_2500BP,0
South_Africa_2000BP,0
Yamnaya_Ukraine,0

[1] "distance%=3.3064"

Guanche:guanche8_scaled

Globular_Amphora,41.4
Anatolia_ChL,21.5
Iberomaurusian,16.5
Armenia_ChL,11.7
Yoruba,8.5
Clovis,0.4
Blatterhole_HG,0
Ethiopia_4500BP,0
Iberia_ChL,0
Malawi_Fingira_2500BP,0
South_Africa_2000BP,0
Tanzania_Luxmanda_3000BP,0
Yamnaya_Ukraine,0

[1] "distance%=2.7716"

Guanche:guanche12_scaled

Anatolia_ChL,31.1
Iberomaurusian,25.2
Iberia_ChL,18.3
Globular_Amphora,14.3
Yoruba,5.4
Tanzania_Luxmanda_3000BP,4.5
Yamnaya_Ukraine,1.2
Blatterhole_HG,0
Clovis,0
Ethiopia_4500BP,0
Malawi_Fingira_2500BP,0
South_Africa_2000BP,0
Armenia_ChL,0

PD: A mi me pueden responder en Portugues; Ingles o Español; me da igual.

Ruderico
02-13-2019, 11:21 AM
Lo de los Guanches bajando el porcentaje Romano es porque los Guanches son una mezcla Europea(Prob Romanos o Griegos)+Norte_African+Medio_Oriente (Fenicios o algo más).

[1] "distance%=3.6298"

Guanche:guanche2_scaled

Globular_Amphora,41.8
Iberomaurusian,22.7
Armenia_ChL,18.5
Anatolia_ChL,8.3
Yoruba,7.2
Clovis,1.4
Tanzania_Luxmanda_3000BP,0.1
Blatterhole_HG,0
Ethiopia_4500BP,0
Iberia_ChL,0
Malawi_Fingira_2500BP,0
South_Africa_2000BP,0
Yamnaya_Ukraine,0

[1] "distance%=3.3064"

Guanche:guanche8_scaled

Globular_Amphora,41.4
Anatolia_ChL,21.5
Iberomaurusian,16.5
Armenia_ChL,11.7
Yoruba,8.5
Clovis,0.4
Blatterhole_HG,0
Ethiopia_4500BP,0
Iberia_ChL,0
Malawi_Fingira_2500BP,0
South_Africa_2000BP,0
Tanzania_Luxmanda_3000BP,0
Yamnaya_Ukraine,0

[1] "distance%=2.7716"

Guanche:guanche12_scaled

Anatolia_ChL,31.1
Iberomaurusian,25.2
Iberia_ChL,18.3
Globular_Amphora,14.3
Yoruba,5.4
Tanzania_Luxmanda_3000BP,4.5
Yamnaya_Ukraine,1.2
Blatterhole_HG,0
Clovis,0
Ethiopia_4500BP,0
Malawi_Fingira_2500BP,0
South_Africa_2000BP,0
Armenia_ChL,0

PD: A mi me pueden responder en Portugues; Ingles o Español; me da igual.

Yes, they also lower the amount of references with steppe because Guanche11 himself/herself scored some 10% of it.

[1] "distance%=3.0651 / distance=0.030651"

Guanche:guanche11_scaled

Iberomaurusian 37.75
Barcin_N 36.80
Yamnaya_Samara 11.60
Levant_N 10.10
Yoruba 3.75


The reason I didn't use it initially because the uniquely NA source of ancestry is Iberomaurusian, so that alone would be enough to see the trend :)
Besides it looks suspiciously similar to Moroccan:MCA9, which I'm not sure is plausible. Guanche5 sample is a bit rubbish and unreliable, for example, so I played it safe

[1] "distance%=2.5308 / distance=0.025308"

Moroccan:MCA9

Iberomaurusian 40.6
Barcin_N 34.5
Levant_N 10.9
Yamnaya_Samara 9.7
Yoruba 4.3

Shadogowah
02-13-2019, 11:51 AM
Muy interesante y por lo demás acorde con lo que vamos descubriendo dado que la mayor parte de los mitos ya están bastante enterrados.

Por cierto que como español con un perfil genético bastante "aportuguesado" me gustaría saber donde me sitúa el gráfico.

Oficialmente sólo tengo un antepasado portugués (Sande) y el resto sobre el papel son todos andaluces pero sospecho que casi todas las ramas provienen originariamente del tercio occidental de Iberia: Galicia, Asturias, Leon, Portugal y Extremadura.

Ruderico
02-13-2019, 12:45 PM
Muy interesante y por lo demás acorde con lo que vamos descubriendo dado que la mayor parte de los mitos ya están bastante enterrados.

Por cierto que como español con un perfil genético bastante "aportuguesado" me gustaría saber donde me sitúa el gráfico.

Oficialmente sólo tengo un antepasado portugués (Sande) y el resto sobre el papel son todos andaluces pero sospecho que casi todas las ramas provienen originariamente del tercio occidental de Iberia: Galicia, Asturias, Leon, Portugal y Extremadura.

Se estás realmente interessado em estar plotado nestes PCAs, e conhecer os teus resultados nestes modelos (ou outros), só tens de pedir as tuas coordenadas Global 25 ao Davidski, do Eurogenes (http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/10/genetic-ancestry-online-store-to-be.html). Penso que o preço seja 12USD aproximadamente. O nMonte e PAST3 são freeware e simlpes de usar.

Pessoalmente penso que o preço é justo para o potencial de modelação que esta ferramenta tem. No entanto, como podes ver pelos modelos individuais, os teus resultados podem ser diferentes da referencia Andaluza. O meu é virtualmente igual ao de Castilla y León, a minha família é essencialmente do Douro e da Beira Alta (https://anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=28618&d=1548426156)


Há mais users Espanhóis aqui no Anthrogenica que têm as suas coordenadas do Global 25 (TeneTana, Rabai, etc), mas como não as conheço, infelizmente não pude modelar nem plotar no gráfico



Edit: Sande? Pode ser topónimo. A minha linhagem materna é de Sande, em Marco de Canaveses (ano ~1750)
Edit2: Hum...provavelmente não. https://pt.geneanet.org/nomes-de-familia/SANDE

Shadogowah
02-13-2019, 02:36 PM
Se estás realmente interessado em estar plotado nestes PCAs, e conhecer os teus resultados nestes modelos (ou outros), só tens de pedir as tuas coordenadas Global 25 ao Davidski, do Eurogenes (http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/10/genetic-ancestry-online-store-to-be.html). Penso que o preço seja 12USD aproximadamente. O nMonte e PAST3 são freeware e simlpes de usar.

Pessoalmente penso que o preço é justo para o potencial de modelação que esta ferramenta tem. No entanto, como podes ver pelos modelos individuais, os teus resultados podem ser diferentes da referencia Andaluza. O meu é virtualmente igual ao de Castilla y León, a minha família é essencialmente do Douro e da Beira Alta (https://anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=28618&d=1548426156)


Há mais users Espanhóis aqui no Anthrogenica que têm as suas coordenadas do Global 25 (TeneTana, Rabai, etc), mas como não as conheço, infelizmente não pude modelar nem plotar no gráfico



Edit: Sande? Pode ser topónimo. A minha linhagem materna é de Sande, em Marco de Canaveses (ano ~1750)
Edit2: Hum...provavelmente não. https://pt.geneanet.org/nomes-de-familia/SANDE

Conozoco de su existencia porque aparece en los registros de nacimiento de todos sus nietos (es el abuelo materno). Su nombre en los registros es "Manuel Tabadeo" y su lugar de origen "Chande - Reino de Portugal". Tras horas buscando alguna ciudad o provincia portuguesa llamada "Chande" con google maps, me dí cuenta de que "Chande" sería la transcripción fonética que haría un funcionario andaluz del topónimo "Sande" pronunciado en portugués.

Abrí un hilo hace tiempo en el foro portugués preguntando por ello:

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?8357-Tabadeo-%C9-um-nome-Portugu%EAs


También creo que "Tabadeo" es algún tipo de transcripción fonética porque ambos antepasados nacieron en el siglo XVIII y muy probablemente eran analfabetos.

Ruderico
02-13-2019, 03:05 PM
Conozoco de su existencia porque aparece en los registros de nacimiento de todos sus nietos (es el abuelo materno). Su nombre en los registros es "Manuel Tabadeo" y su lugar de origen "Chande - Reino de Portugal". Tras horas buscando alguna ciudad o provincia portuguesa llamada "Chande" con google maps, me dí cuenta de que "Chande" sería la transcripción fonética que haría un funcionario andaluz del topónimo "Sande" pronunciado en portugués.

Abrí un hilo hace tiempo en el foro portugués preguntando por ello:

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?8357-Tabadeo-%C9-um-nome-Portugu%EAs


También creo que "Tabadeo" es algún tipo de transcripción fonética porque ambos antepasados nacieron en el siglo XVIII y muy probablemente eran analfabetos.

Também acontecia que por vezes o pároco não conhecia o lugar, então escrevia mal. A minha linhagem paterna era de Fontoura (https://tombo.pt/f/vln05), em Valença (ao lado de Tuy, Pontevedra), mas foi escrito como "Frontoura" ou "Frontora" (https://postimg.cc/BP1rVJYH) em Viseu quando se casou. Arcebispado (de Braga) também foi mal escrito, por alguma razão. Este padre nunca acertava a letra r :lol:

Se estiveres interessado em procurar, tens registos paroquiais em https://tombo.pt/ e informação geográfica em http://atlas.fcsh.unl.pt/cartoweb35/atlas.php.
Tens alguns lugares chamados Sande, todos no Norte:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sande/@41.7002186,-8.4242412,13.25z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0xd25041d5e967b7d:0x500ebbde490850 0!8m2!3d41.7026569!4d-8.3931474
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sande+(S%C3%A3o+Martinho)/@41.4959789,-8.3974683,13z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0xd24fa52c632ea9b:0xea1f3b140237a1 e3!8m2!3d41.4956796!4d-8.3620667
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sande/@41.1116012,-8.1828105,14z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0xd249855e0ed59f9:0x500ebb de490f1d0!8m2!3d41.1048771!4d-8.1762214

Tabadeu/Tabadeo nunca vi. Em geneanet.pt só aparecem já em Sevilha e Málaga, devem ser teus familiares https://pt.geneanet.org/nomes-de-familia/TABADEO

Shadogowah
02-13-2019, 03:09 PM
Também acontecia que por vezes o pároco não conhecia o lugar, então escrevia mal. A minha linhagem paterna era de Fontoura (https://tombo.pt/f/vln05), em Valença (ao lado de Tuy, Pontevedra), mas foi escrito como "Frontoura" ou "Frontora" (https://postimg.cc/BP1rVJYH) em Viseu quando se casou. Arcebispado (de Braga) também foi mal escrito, por alguma razão. Este padre nunca acertava a letra r :lol:

Se estiveres interessado em procurar, tens registos paroquiais em https://tombo.pt/ e informação geográfica em http://atlas.fcsh.unl.pt/cartoweb35/atlas.php.
Tens alguns lugares chamados Sande, todos no Norte:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sande/@41.7002186,-8.4242412,13.25z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0xd25041d5e967b7d:0x500ebbde490850 0!8m2!3d41.7026569!4d-8.3931474
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sande+(S%C3%A3o+Martinho)/@41.4959789,-8.3974683,13z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0xd24fa52c632ea9b:0xea1f3b140237a1 e3!8m2!3d41.4956796!4d-8.3620667
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sande/@41.1116012,-8.1828105,14z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0xd249855e0ed59f9:0x500ebb de490f1d0!8m2!3d41.1048771!4d-8.1762214

Tabadeu/Tabadeo nunca vi. Em geneanet.pt só aparecem já em Sevilha e Málaga, devem ser teus familiares https://pt.geneanet.org/nomes-de-familia/TABADEO


He leído cosas en los registros que te hacen sangrar los ojos.

Y si, esos son mis antepasados.

Usando google, sólo tengo constancia de otro Tabadeo, un ingeniero norteamericano que visitó el CERN en 1972

http://cds.cern.ch/record/2141458?ln=es

Probablemente otra mala transcripción, aunque quién sabe, a lo mejor es un tío lejano.

Ruderico
02-13-2019, 03:17 PM
Voltando aos modelos, se um dia tiveres as tuas coordenadas de Global 25 terei todo o gosto em fazer estes modelos, ou outros, para ti

Ruderico
03-20-2019, 11:36 AM
So, with the new samples from the Olalde paper being avaliable on G25 I decided to update the previous simple model with a new one. Since we now have IA samples from Iberia, I got rid of the Iberia_BA and Hallstatt references and replaced them with both Iberia_North_IA (Celtiberians).
The paper states:

The impact of mobility from the central/eastern Mediterranean during the Classical period is also evident in 10 individuals from the 7th to 8th century CE site of L'Esquerda in the northeast, who show a shift from the Iron Age population in the direction of present-day Italians and Greeks (Fig. 1D) that accounts for approximately one-quarter of their ancestry (Fig. 2C and table S17). The same shift is also observed in present-day Iberians outside the Basque area and is plausibly a consequence of the Roman presence in the peninsula, which had a profound cultural impact and, according to our data, a substantial genetic impact too.

So we're aiming at roughly 25% Roman ancestry. We also know that the North African impact in west Iberia is some 8-12%.
Let's see what the model gives:



[1] "distance%=1.036"

Portuguese

Celtiberian,69.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,19.4
Guanche,11.4


[1] "distance%=0.8919"

Spanish_Extremadura

Celtiberian,66.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,21
Guanche,12.2


[1] "distance%=1.4194"

Spanish_Galicia

Celtiberian,70
Roman_Imperial_proxy,19.6
Guanche,10.4


[1] "distance%=1.339"

Spanish_Cantabria

Celtiberian,81.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,13
Guanche,5.4


[1] "distance%=0.999"

Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon

Celtiberian,72.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,16.8
Guanche,10.4


[1] "distance%=0.8002"

Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha

Celtiberian,76.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,18.6
Guanche,5


[1] "distance%=1.0186"

Spanish_Andalucia

Celtiberian,70.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,22.6
Guanche,6.8


[1] "distance%=0.9077"

Spanish_Murcia

Celtiberian,68.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,24.2
Guanche,7.6


[1] "distance%=1.3097"

Spanish_Valencia

Celtiberian,81.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,15.4
Guanche,3.2


[1] "distance%=0.951"

Spanish_Cataluna

Celtiberian,77
Roman_Imperial_proxy,16.2
Guanche,6.8


[1] "distance%=1.0951"

Spanish_Aragon

Celtiberian,77.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,15.6
Guanche,6.6


[1] "distance%=1.0975"

Spanish_Baleares

Celtiberian,69.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,27.2
Guanche,3.6


[1] "distance%=1.0256"

Spanish_Canarias

Celtiberian,64.2
Guanche,19.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,16.2






And below, the same individual Portuguese samples as before. You can check the G25 PCA plot again below. The dataset includes all modern West Eurasians in G25, and all the post-IA samples from Olalde 2019 (plus one CA).
https://i.postimg.cc/vMGh9gf3/westeurasiag25.png

Again, for reference:
Ruderico - North-centre
MrsRuderico - East (next to northern Extremadura)
rxavierflima - Northwest
elisabetenjoaquim - West
Lusitano - Centre


[1] "distance%=1.765"

Ruderico

Celtiberian,76.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,14.8
Guanche,8.4


[1] "distance%=1.7545"

MrsRuderico

Celtiberian,73
Guanche,13.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,13.4


[1] "distance%=1.4588"

rxavierflima

Celtiberian,69.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,21
Guanche,9.6


[1] "distance%=1.2422"

elisabetenjoaquim

Celtiberian,68.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,19.4
Guanche,12


[1] "distance%=1.4175"

Lusitano

Celtiberian,69.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,19.2
Guanche,11.6



Is it perfect? No, it's probably off by a few % here and there (Guanche might be slightly inflated in some references, for example) but for such a simple model it's good enough for me not to lose sleep over it. The fits generally improve, mine in particularly did so almost dramatically, so I'm very happy.

There's also possibly a layer of Germanic-related ancestry missing, using the Visigothic samples from the paper, or from older ones, generally gives everyone a very significant amount, but I'm assuming this is mostly a statistical artifact rather than actual large amounts of Germanic ancestry, otherwise Olalde would have mentioned it in his paper, no?
My guess is that some of it is lying around, but I'm finding it hard to estimate with these tools. If one reference could be found that gets modelled in small amounts here and there, being higher in a few individuals who plot closer to France it'd be perfect, because my suspicion is that some individuals would benefit from it. Alternatively I could use Celtiberians and Iberians separately, and this will mirror what happened with the Iberia_BA+Hallstatt model, but I don't find that as interesting or informative at this stage.



I can rerun these with all IA samples from Iberia if anyone wants to see the result

sweuro
03-20-2019, 05:07 PM
En general parece bastante correcto, pero para Cantabria, Cataluña y Aragón el aporte norte-africano parece demasiado elevado, tendría que estar en el rango de 2-4%
Usando la muestra de origen norte-africano Iberia Central CA Afr I4246 en vez de Guanche11 (que tiene aporte europeo) :
Para aporte Romano/Este Mediterráneo utilizo un griego antiguo de Empúries (I8208)

[1] "distance%=2.3461 / distance=0.023461"

Spanish_Cantabria
Iberia_North_IA 83.3
Iberia_Northeast_Hel:I8208 14.3
Iberia_Central_CA_Afr:I4246 2.4

Ruderico
03-20-2019, 05:23 PM
En general parece bastante correcto, pero para Cantabria, Cataluña y Aragón el aporte norte-africano parece demasiado elevado, tendría que estar en el rango de 2-4%
Usando la muestra de origen norte-africano Iberia Central CA Afr I4246 en vez de Guanche11 (que tiene aporte europeo) :
Para aporte Romano/Este Mediterráneo utilizo un griego antiguo de Empúries (I8208)

[1] "distance%=2.3461 / distance=0.023461"

Spanish_Cantabria
Iberia_North_IA 83.3
Iberia_Northeast_Hel:I8208 14.3
Iberia_Central_CA_Afr:I4246 2.4

Hey, thanks for replying.
Yes it might be a bit elevated for a few references, but not too much. I interpret the higher-than-expected results as a high-end estimation of sorts, for example my Missus never got a result this high, whereas mine is a bit lower than usual (I generally score less, but still close, to the Portuguese reference..here I'm 3% lower for whatever reason).

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-N4Qt1Uu23XM/Wr8a2yJ7iTI/AAAAAAAADy0/5m9VSUHNE54SN0iq8dwj2jEjLAm9peEJQCEwYBhgL/s1600/NMorocco.png


Cantabria is in the purple area, or the beggining of the blue area, so I estimate somewhere between 3,5% to 5,5% should be okay. 5,4% might be a maximum, but not totally irrealistic.
Whatever the "real" value is - as the result depends on the source, Guanche11 and NorthMorocco have some European ancestry - it's clearly much lower than what we have here in the west.

sweuro
03-20-2019, 06:22 PM
Hey, thanks for replying.
Yes it might be a bit elevated for a few references, but not too much. I interpret the higher-than-expected results as a high-end estimation of sorts, for example my Missus never got a result this high, whereas mine is a bit lower than usual (I generally score less, but still close, to the Portuguese reference..here I'm 3% lower for whatever reason).

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-N4Qt1Uu23XM/Wr8a2yJ7iTI/AAAAAAAADy0/5m9VSUHNE54SN0iq8dwj2jEjLAm9peEJQCEwYBhgL/s1600/NMorocco.png


Cantabria is in the purple area, or the beggining of the blue area, so I estimate somewhere between 3,5% to 5,5% should be okay. 5,4% might be a maximum, but not totally irrealistic.
Whatever the "real" value is - as the result depends on the source, Guanche11 and NorthMorocco have some European ancestry - it's clearly much lower than what we have here in the west.
I don't know what that map is, but based on the nMontes that I've done with iberians all these years Cantabrians consistently give me the 2-4% range.


Using modern populations that don't have any North-African (just for the purpose of isolating the North-African component):

[1] "distance%=1.1257 / distance=0.011257"

Spanish_Cantabria

Basque_French 48.7
French_South 17.6
Italian_Tuscan 17.4
French 12.9
Moroccan 3.3


Using ancient samples with different models :


[1] "distance%=2.5104 / distance=0.025104"

Spanish_Cantabria

Iberia_North_MLN 54.65
Yamnaya_Kalmykia 27.60
Anatolia_EBA_Isparta 14.60
Moroccan 3.15


[1] "distance%=1.9934 / distance=0.019934"

Spanish_Cantabria

Hallstatt_Bylany 41.40
Iberia_BA 37.90
Anatolia_BA 12.35
Portugal_MBA 6.15
Moroccan 2.20



[1] "distance%=2.3461 / distance=0.023461"

Spanish_Cantabria

Iberia_North_IA 83.3
Iberia_Northeast_Hel:I8208 14.3
Iberia_Central_CA_Afr:I4246 2.4

Ruderico
03-20-2019, 06:28 PM
It's a paper that was publish not too long ago Patterns of genetic differentiation and the footprints of historical migrations in the Iberian Peninsula
Personally I give more relevance to these studies than any nMonte models, since studies were done by academics

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-08272-w


That image was actually from the preprint, the final version updated the values.
https://media.springernature.com/lw900/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1038%2Fs41467-018-08272-w/MediaObjects/41467_2018_8272_Fig5_HTML.png

sweuro
03-20-2019, 06:44 PM
It's a paper that was publish not too long ago Patterns of genetic differentiation and the footprints of historical migrations in the Iberian Peninsula
Personally I give more relevance to these studies than any nMonte models, since studies were done by academics

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-08272-w


That image was actually from the preprint, the final version updated the values.
https://media.springernature.com/lw900/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1038%2Fs41467-018-08272-w/MediaObjects/41467_2018_8272_Fig5_HTML.png

The Western area of Cantabrian seems to be an effect of the software map, because it is based on the dots, and the Western part of Cantabria doesn't have any dots, so it connects directly with Western Spain which are in orange, that's why it starts to fade rigth in the middle. But the samples of Cantabria (all the dots) are in the 3-5% range , and considering it's based on modern North Moroccans (which have recent and appreciable levels of European admixture) it should be around 2-3% of pure north-african which makes sense and is consistent with nMonte.

Ruderico
03-20-2019, 06:59 PM
The Western area of Cantabrian seems to be an effect of the software map, because it is based on the dots, and the Western part of Cantabria doesn't have any dots, so it connects directly with Western Spain which are in orange, that's why it starts to fade rigth in the middle. But the samples of Cantabria (all the dots) are in the 3-5% range , and considering it's based on modern North Moroccans (which have recent and appreciable levels of European admixture) it should be around 2-3% of pure north-african which makes sense and is consistent with nMonte.

Yep, which is why I said some of the values on the model I built are at the high-end (besides nMonte doesn't always return the smae values with penalty on, so there's that too). However we do not know exactly what the genetic profile of these early settlers was like because we do not have proper samples, only those 50/50-ish from Andalucia in the Roman period, but we have no idea if they arrived during the Roman occupation/colonisation or a bit before (Carthaginians). I'm tempted to say the former, but alas no samples.

The reason I didn't choose I4246 was because they said on the paper that such early contacts were sporadic, so individuals like him were probably too early to represent NA in Iberia, whereas the Guanche is from the 700s or 800s, and has no direct European ancestry. Whatever European ancestry he has was already present in north Africa at the time, it just back migrated to Iberia.



Anyway, it doesn't seem like a different source will fundamentally change the results. A couple % more or less doesn't bother me too much, especially if the variation across the peninsula doesn't turn odd. Also keep in mind that there are just 3 or 4 samples in each reference, so they might not be exactly representative. Imagine I was one of the individuals used for a Portuguese reference with just 2 others...oof...

Ruderico
03-28-2019, 05:57 PM
Hola otra vez!

This time I'll be posting a quick model aimed at getting a look at Germanic ancestry inside Portugal and Spain using the samples from the latest Olalde paper.
I always found it very hard to estimate because values can flutuate a bit depending on the references on individuals being modelled. This time I'll be only using averaged references, to try keeping results more stable. However, since the Visigothic average reference includes a local (I12034) I decided to recalculate it without the outlier who could have ended up skewing results.

For reference I'll be posting David's Celtic vs Germanic PCA. Unfortunetly there's no discrimination of Spanish regions, which is a damned shame because it'd help quite a lot.

https://i.postimg.cc/hKQ3qPnX/cvg.png






[1] "distance%=1.0896"

Portuguese

Celtiberian,62.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,16.8
Guanche,10.8
Visigothic,9.8


[1] "distance%=0.9111"

Spanish_Extremadura

Celtiberian,61.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,14.8
Visigothic,12.4
Guanche,11.2


[1] "distance%=1.5939"

Spanish_Galicia

Celtiberian,55
Visigothic,19.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,15.8
Guanche,9.6


[1] "distance%=1.3755"

Spanish_Cantabria

Celtiberian,83.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,9.8
Guanche,4.2
Visigothic,2.6


[1] "distance%=1.0229"

Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon

Celtiberian,72.8
Guanche,10.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,10
Visigothic,6.4


[1] "distance%=0.85"

Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha

Celtiberian,77.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,13.2
Guanche,5
Visigothic,4.4


[1] "distance%=1.0692"

Spanish_Andalucia

Celtiberian,71.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,17.8
Guanche,6.4
Visigothic,4


[1] "distance%=0.9998"

Spanish_Murcia

Celtiberian,63.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,17
Visigothic,12.2
Guanche,7.4


[1] "distance%=1.5173"

Spanish_Valencia

Celtiberian,82.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,11.6
Guanche,6
Visigothic,0


[1] "distance%=0.9881"

Spanish_Cataluna

Celtiberian,69.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,13
Visigothic,12
Guanche,5.4


[1] "distance%=1.1178"

Spanish_Aragon

Celtiberian,79
Roman_Imperial_proxy,12.2
Guanche,5.6
Visigothic,3.2


[1] "distance%=1.2195"

Spanish_Baleares

Celtiberian,63.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,23
Visigothic,11.4
Guanche,2





The following group includes Portuguese individuals besides those already included in the G25 dataset.
If you are Spanish it'd be really great if you could get your own coordinates so we could check your personal variation.


[1] "distance%=1.9348"

Ruderico

Celtiberian,80
Guanche,10.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,9.4
Visigothic,0


[1] "distance%=1.8344"

MrsRuderico

Celtiberian,71.4
Guanche,13.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,11
Visigothic,3.8




[1] "distance%=1.699"

rxavierflima

Celtiberian,68.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,12.6
Guanche,12.4
Visigothic,6.4


[1] "distance%=1.3321"

joaoflima

Celtiberian,65.4
Guanche,13.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,13.8
Visigothic,7


[1] "distance%=1.1761"

modeteftlima

Celtiberian,53
Visigothic,17.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,17
Guanche,12.2


[1] "distance%=1.5474"

matiasnlima

Celtiberian,67.2
Guanche,14.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,10.2
Visigothic,7.8


[1] "distance%=1.0866"

elisabetenjoaquim

Celtiberian,57.6
Visigothic,18.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,12.8
Guanche,11.2


[1] "distance%=1.1185"

armandoejoaquim

Celtiberian,54.2
Visigothic,24.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,13
Guanche,8


[1] "distance%=1.5607"

ermelindarcnunes

Celtiberian,46.8
Visigothic,30.2
Guanche,11.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,11.4




[1] "distance%=1.623"

Lusitano

Celtiberian,72.8
Guanche,13.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,13.2
Visigothic,0.2




Some individuals seem to have ridiculously high Visigothic scores so I'm very skeptical of some results - particularly as Olalde didn't mention a significant Germanic impact in modern Iberia - even if the trends themselves might indeed indicate some sort of increased Germanic ancestry. Maybe they are a consequence of Reconquista repopulations from north European crusaders?

I also decided to include a new Germanic reference instead of these Visigoths for West Iberians, mostly because Germanic settlers there could have been less admixed than the Visigoths, since the Suebi weren't known for wondering about in SE Europe. For that I used the Szolad references, but removed all those who did not plot with modern Germanic-speaking individuals, and finally calculated a new average. The results were very similar. Portugal and León got better fits, for Galicia and myself the improvement was statistically irrelevant. Overall the change of references did pretty much nothing. I guess I'll discard the model


[1] "distance%=1.0296"

Portuguese

Celtiberian,59.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,16.4
Suebi_proxy,12.4
Guanche,11.6


[1] "distance%=1.5801"

Spanish_Galicia

Celtiberian,54.2
Suebi_proxy,18
Roman_Imperial_proxy,17.6
Guanche,10.2


[1] "distance%=0.9821"

Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon

Celtiberian,69.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,12.6
Guanche,10.8
Suebi_proxy,6.8



[1] "distance%=1.9288"

Ruderico

Celtiberian,78.8
Guanche,11.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,9.8
Suebi_proxy,0





Now I'll go play Age of Empires Online as Celts against Norse and Greeks, because my results dictate so :lol:

rxavierflima
03-28-2019, 09:29 PM
:hail:
Eh pá, posta aí os 7 resultados, s'il te plaît!
Acho mais interessante com suevos do que com visigodos porque, como dizes, os visigodos eram uma grande mistela quando cá chegaram.


The Visigothic Kingdom was the larger and longer lived than the Suebi Kingdom, and yet the Goths do not seem to have had any significant genetic impact on the Iberian population - at least not in terms of Germanic Y-DNA. The reason might simply be that they were no longer a predominantly Germanic tribe. After all, the Goths had lived for many centuries in Eastern Europe and nearly two more centuries in the Balkans before invading Italy, Gaul and Iberia. They could have assimilated a lot of non-Germanic people on the way, notably R1a and I2a1b Slavs and predominantly E1b1b, I2a1b and J2 Balkanic people. It would be pretty complicated at the moment to untangle the Balkanic E1b1b and J2 from all the others (Neolithic, Phoenician, Greek, Roman, Jewish, Arabic) found in Iberia. But it is remarkably easy to check the Eastern European I2a1b (M423) and R1a (M458 and Z280). No historical migration could account for Slavic haplogroups in Iberia apart from the East European populations assimilated by the Goths before the 4th century. (https://www.eupedia.com/genetics/spain_portugal_dna.shtml)

Ruderico
03-28-2019, 11:00 PM
:hail:
Eh pá, posta aí os 7 resultados, s'il te plaît!
Acho mais interessante com suevos do que com visigodos porque, como dizes, os visigodos eram uma grande mistela quando cá chegaram.

Bem tecnicamente são Lombardos, não Suevos, apenas os estou a usar como proxy, mas eles provavelmente esses grupos eram bastante semelhantes. O resultado seja com Visigodos ou estes é em termos práticos igual, apesar de algumas componentes ficarem anormalmente elevadas, por exemplo o Guanche está claramente acima do real que deverá ser algures entre 9-11% para a maior parte de nós. Sinceramente até prefiro o modelo com os Godos.

O teu sogro é que tem resultados algo diferentes, muito Germanico e pouco do norte de África.



[1] "distance%=1.6728"

rxavierflima

Celtiberian,66.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,15.6
Guanche,13
Suebi_proxy,5.2


[1] "distance%=1.5072"

matiasnlima

Celtiberian,64
Guanche,15.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,10.2
Suebi_proxy,10.2


[1] "distance%=0.9918"

elisabetenjoaquim

Celtiberian,55
Suebi_proxy,19
Roman_Imperial_proxy,14.4
Guanche,11.6


[1] "distance%=1.0263"

armandoejoaquim

Celtiberian,51
Suebi_proxy,24.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,15.6
Guanche,8.8


[1] "distance%=1.3137"

joaoflima

Celtiberian,63.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,15.2
Guanche,14.4
Suebi_proxy,6.6


[1] "distance%=1.1573"

modeteftlima

Celtiberian,52
Roman_Imperial_proxy,19.6
Suebi_proxy,15.6
Guanche,12.8


[1] "distance%=1.4562"

ermelindarcnunes

Celtiberian,44.4
Suebi_proxy,28
Roman_Imperial_proxy,15.4
Guanche,12.2

rxavierflima
03-29-2019, 08:56 PM
Bem tecnicamente são Lombardos, não Suevos, apenas os estou a usar como proxy, mas eles provavelmente esses grupos eram bastante semelhantes. O resultado seja com Visigodos ou estes é em termos práticos igual, apesar de algumas componentes ficarem anormalmente elevadas, por exemplo o Guanche está claramente acima do real que deverá ser algures entre 9-11% para a maior parte de nós. Sinceramente até prefiro o modelo com os Godos.

O teu sogro é que tem resultados algo diferentes, muito Germanico e pouco do norte de África.



Hum, de que altura são esses lombardos? Se são do século VI quando entraram na Itália, ok. Mas se são já muito posteriores, não me parece que se possam considerar semelhantes a suevos. Os suevos que chegaram a Portugal eram germânicos "puros" porque a viagem durou 2 ou 3 anos.

A mim cheira-me (repara na cientificidade disto lol) que o meu pai apesar de ter muito NA, é também o que tem mais sangue suevo. Não só porque é de ascendência minhota mas também porque segundo ele havia pessoas da família ruivos. Isto pode não querer dizer nada, mas é a minha aposta. E talvez isto explique um pouco este absurdo (https://anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27036&d=1541891839).

Acho também que os pais da minha mulher, sendo do centro do país, terão mais influência do lado visigodo.

Ruderico
03-30-2019, 10:25 AM
São por volta dessa altura, sim, os indivíduos que usei são muito Germânicos

O modelo usa essa referência para ascendência mais do noroeste, pode ser Suevo, Inglês, Normando ou tudo junto.
O teu pai pode ter herdado menos, quer por aleatoriedade quer por a sua distribuição ser heterogenea mesmo no Minho. Já o teu sogro pode por exemplo ter mais antepassados descendentes de cruzados/colonos da Flandres/Inglaterra/Borgonha que vieram para cá durante a reconquista e cá ficaram (tipo Tomar), é que toda a família desse lado tem essa tendência. Estou só a especular, claro.

Eu também tenho muitas pessoas com pigmentação muito clara no lado da minha mãe, todos Durienses de gema, no entanto vê bem o quão germânico eu sou x)

Token
04-20-2019, 01:18 AM
Hola otra vez!

This time I'll be posting a quick model aimed at getting a look at Germanic ancestry inside Portugal and Spain using the samples from the latest Olalde paper.
I always found it very hard to estimate because values can flutuate a bit depending on the references on individuals being modelled. This time I'll be only using averaged references, to try keeping results more stable. However, since the Visigothic average reference includes a local (I12034) I decided to recalculate it without the outlier who could have ended up skewing results.

For reference I'll be posting David's Celtic vs Germanic PCA. Unfortunetly there's no discrimination of Spanish regions, which is a damned shame because it'd help quite a lot.
It seems you have changed your mind regarding Germanic input in Iberia.

sweuro
05-27-2019, 01:16 PM
Las muestras nuevas del estudio de Ibiza están ya en Gedmatch (Islas Balears, Valencia, Castellón, Alicante, Barcelona, Periferia Barcelona, Lleida, Pirineo, Girona, Camp de Tarragana, Catalunya Central, Terres de L'Ebre, Menorca, Mallorca, Ibiza).

Este soy yo modelado en Eurogenes K15 añadiendo estas nuevas muestras :

65.0% Spaniard Murcia + 35.0% French Central n=6 @ 2.58,
76.0% Spanish Eivissa n=13 + 24.0% Spaniard Asturias n=4 @ 2.658,00
74.0% Spaniard Murcia + 26.0% French North n=5 @ 2.686,00
79.0% Spaniard Murcia + 21.0% Southwest_English @ 2.711,00
71.0% Spaniard Murcia + 29.0% French Normandy n=4 @ 2.805,00
86.0% Spanish Eivissa n=13 + 14.0% Sp_La Rioja @ 2.833,00
77.0% Sp_Aragonese n=9 + 23.0% Italy_Friul @ 2.835,00
83.0% Spaniard Murcia + 17.0% Orcadian @ 2.866,00
71.0% Spanish Eivissa n=13 + 29.0% Sp_Aragonese n=9 @ 2.87,
71.0% Spaniard Murcia + 29.0% French Canada @ 2.885,00
74.0% Spanish Catalunya_Central n=10 + 26.0% Spaniard Murcia @ 2.888,00

sweuro
05-27-2019, 01:30 PM
Otros modelos:


València:

56.0% Spanish Menorca n=3 + 44.0% Sp_La Rioja @ 2.095,00
63.0% Sp_Aragonese n=9 + 37.0% Spanish Menorca n=3 @ 2.128,00
84.0% Spaniard Valencians n=16 + 16.0% Spanish Terres_de_l'Ebre n=5 @ 2.205,00
91.0% Spaniard Valencians n=16 + 9.0% Spanish Menorca n=3 @ 2.215,00



Terres de L'Ebre

77.0% Spanish_Aragon + 23.0% IT_Sauris @ 2.293,00
62.0% Spanish_Aragon + 38.0% Spanish Menorca n=3 @ 2.401,00
74.0% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 26.0% Spanish Menorca n=3 @ 2.505,00
86.0% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 14.0% IT_Sauris @ 2.545,00



Pirineu
80.0% Spanish Lleida n=9 + 20.0% Spaniard Navarra n=9 @ 2.185,00
77.0% Spanish Girona n=10 + 23.0% Spaniard Navarra n=9 @ 2.402,00
73.0% Spanish Lleida n=9 + 27.0% French SW average n=18 @ 2.457,00
81.0% Spanish Lleida n=9 + 19.0% French_Basque @ 2.562,00



Peri-Barcelona
63.0% Spanish Castelló n=7 + 37.0% Spanish_Cataluna @ 1.741,00
55.0% Spanish Catalunya_Central n=10 + 45.0% Spanish Castelló n=7 @ 1.742,00
59.0% Spanish Castelló n=7 + 41.0% Spanish Eivissa n=13 @ 1.748,00
57.0% Spaniard Valencians n=16 + 43.0% Spanish Girona n=10 @ 1.843,00



Penedès
54.0% French South average n=10 + 46.0% Spanish Eivissa n=13 @ 1.971,00
93.0% French South average n=10 + 7.0% Algerian_Jewish @ 2.03,
72.0% Spanish Girona n=10 + 28.0% French Central n=6 @ 2.054,00
92.0% French South average n=10 + 8.0% Italian_Jewish @ 2.06,
77.0% Spanish Girona n=10 + 23.0% French East n=12 @ 2.076,00
63.0% Spanish Catalunya_Central n=10 + 37.0% IT_Aosta @ 2.082,00



Menorca
66.0% Spanish_Galicia + 34.0% North_Italian @ 3.185,00
75.0% Spanish_Galicia + 25.0% IT_Carloforte @ 3.368,00
81.0% Spanish_Galicia + 19.0% Corsicans @ 3.431,00
91.0% Spanish_Galicia + 9.0% Sardinian @ 3.624,00
88.0% Spanish_Galicia + 12.0% Greek @ 3.625,00
54.0% Swiss-Italians n=2 + 46.0% Spanish Terres_de_l'Ebre n=5 @ 3.647,00



Mallorca
69.0% Sp_Baleares + 31.0% Spanish_Galicia @ 2.006,00
88.0% Spanish Lleida n=9 + 12.0% Bulgarian @ 2.019,00
89.0% Spanish Lleida n=9 + 11.0% Greek @ 2.02,
86.0% Spanish Lleida n=9 + 14.0% Albanian @ 2.038,00
75.0% Spanish Lleida n=9 + 25.0% Italian_Veneto @ 2.053,00



Lleida
59.0% French South average n=10 + 41.0% Spaniard Castilla La Mancha n=8 @ 2.632,00
57.0% French South average n=10 + 43.0% Spaniard Castilla-León n=6 @ 2.648,00
68.0% Spaniard Castilla La Mancha n=8 + 32.0% French East n=12 @ 2.696,00
74.0% Spaniard Castilla La Mancha n=8 + 26.0% French Normandy n=4 @ 2.826,00
59.0% French South average n=10 + 41.0% Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.856,00



Girona
88.0% French South average n=10 + 12.0% IT_Sulcis Iglesiente @ 3.013,00
69.0% French South average n=10 + 31.0% Spaniard Murcia n=3 @ 3.032,00
88.0% French South average n=10 + 12.0% IT_Benetutti @ 3.083,00
53.0% French South average n=10 + 47.0% Spaniard Castilla-León n=6 @ 3.112,00
74.0% Spaniard Valencians n=16 + 26.0% Italy West-Piedmont n=3 @ 3.249,00
78.0% French Central n=6 + 22.0% IT_Benetutti @ 3.3,



Ibiza
95.0% Spanish Peri-Barcelona n=10 + 5.0% Iraq @ 1.822,00
95.0% Spanish Peri-Barcelona n=10 + 5.0% Lebanese_Muslim @ 1.866,00
96.0% Spanish Peri-Barcelona n=10 + 4.0% Iraqi_Jews @ 1.931,00
74.0% Spaniard Andalusian n = 22 + 26.0% Italy West-Piedmont n=3 @ 1.983,00
78.0% Spaniard Andalusian n = 22 + 22.0% IT_Sappada @ 2.009,00
79.0% Spanish_Murcia + 21.0% Italy West-Piedmont n=3 @ 2.1,
82.0% Spanish_Murcia + 18.0% IT_Sappada @ 2.196,00
82.0% Spaniard Andalusian n = 22 + 18.0% Italy South Tyrol n=2 @ 2.2,
79.0% Spaniard Andalusian n = 22 + 21.0% IT_Sauris @ 2.208,00


Catalunya Central
75.0% Sp_Aragonese n=9 + 25.0% IT_Sappada @ 1.941,00
96.0% Spanish Peri-Barcelona n=10 + 4.0% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.031,00
97.0% Spanish Peri-Barcelona n=10 + 3.0% Estonian_Polish @ 2.038,00
79.0% Sp_Aragonese n=9 + 21.0% Italy South Tyrol n=2 @ 2.053,00
79.0% Sp_Aragonese n=9 + 21.0% Italy South Tyrol n=2 @ 2.053,00
95.0% Spanish Peri-Barcelona n=10 + 5.0% Austrian @ 2.053,00
97.0% Spanish Peri-Barcelona n=10 + 3.0% Belorussian @ 2.079,00
97.0% Spanish Peri-Barcelona n=10 + 3.0% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.084,00
74.0% Sp_Aragonese n=9 + 26.0% Italy Trentino n=4 @ 2.105,00


Castelló
62.0% Spaniard Castilla-León n=6 + 38.0% French South average n=10 @ 3.39,
63.0% Swiss-Italians n=2 + 37.0% Spaniard Basques n=15 @ 3.392,00
88.0% Spaniard Valencians n=16 + 12.0% French Normandy n=4 @ 3.442,00
52.0% Sp_La Rioja + 48.0% Swiss-Italians n=2 @ 3.445,00
79.0% Spaniard Valencians n=16 + 21.0% French South average n=10 @ 3.458,00
92.0% Spaniard Valencians n=16 + 8.0% Belgium_Waloon @ 3.506,00
95.0% Spaniard Valencians n=16 + 5.0% Orcadian @ 3.516,00
95.0% Spaniard Valencians n=16 + 5.0% Norwegian @ 3.526,00


Camp de Tarragona
86.0% Spanish Alacant n=6 + 14.0% French Central n=6 @ 1.572,00
86.0% Spanish Alacant n=6 + 14.0% French East n=12 @ 1.614,00
88.0% Spanish Alacant n=6 + 12.0% French Normandy n=4 @ 1.643,00
90.0% Spanish Alacant n=6 + 10.0% French North n=5 @ 1.645,00
84.0% Spanish Alacant n=6 + 16.0% French South average n=10 @ 1.686,00
65.0% Spanish_Cataluna + 35.0% Spaniard Galicia n=10 @ 1.713,00
72.0% Spanish_Cataluna + 28.0% Spanish_Extremadura @ 1.729,00


Barcelonès
82.0% Spaniard Valencians n=16 + 18.0% French Normandy n=4 @ 2.209,00
88.0% Spaniard Valencians n=16 + 12.0% Belgium_Waloon @ 2.326,00
78.0% Spaniard Valencians n=16 + 22.0% French East n=12 @ 2.328,00
79.0% Spaniard Valencians n=16 + 21.0% French Central n=6 @ 2.352,00
91.0% Spaniard Valencians n=16 + 9.0% Orcadian @ 2.352,00
83.0% Spaniard Valencians n=16 + 17.0% French Canada @ 2.372,00


Alacant
60.0% Portuguese + 40.0% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 1.764,00
78.0% Spaniard Galicia n=10 + 22.0% Spanish_Valencia @ 1.9,
50.0% Spanish_Extremadura + 50.0% Spaniard Galicia n=10 @ 1.922,00
73.0% Spanish_Extremadura + 27.0% Spanish_Cantabria @ 1.932,00
67.0% Portuguese + 33.0% Spanish_Aragon @ 1.94,
79.0% Spaniard Galicia n=10 + 21.0% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 1.941,00


Penedès
93.0% French South average n=10 + 7.0% Algerian_Jewish @ 2.03,
92.0% French South average n=10 + 8.0% Italian_Jewish @ 2.06,
93.0% French South average n=10 + 7.0% Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.167,00
94.0% French South average n=10 + 6.0% Greek_Cypriots @ 2.199,00
95.0% French South average n=10 + 5.0% Lebanese_Muslim @ 2.273,00
51.0% Spaniard Catalan avg n=21 + 49.0% IT_Aosta @ 2.273,00

Ruderico
05-27-2019, 01:37 PM
Las muestras nuevas del estudio de Ibiza están ya en Gedmatch (Islas Balears, Valencia, Castellón, Alicante, Barcelona, Periferia Barcelona, Lleida, Pirineo, Girona, Camp de Tarragana, Catalunya Central, Terres de L'Ebre, Menorca, Mallorca, Ibiza).

Este soy yo modelado en Eurogenes K15 añadiendo estas nuevas muestras :

65.0% Spaniard Murcia + 35.0% French Central n=6 @ 2.58,
76.0% Spanish Eivissa n=13 + 24.0% Spaniard Asturias n=4 @ 2.658,00
74.0% Spaniard Murcia + 26.0% French North n=5 @ 2.686,00
79.0% Spaniard Murcia + 21.0% Southwest_English @ 2.711,00
71.0% Spaniard Murcia + 29.0% French Normandy n=4 @ 2.805,00
86.0% Spanish Eivissa n=13 + 14.0% Sp_La Rioja @ 2.833,00
77.0% Sp_Aragonese n=9 + 23.0% Italy_Friul @ 2.835,00
83.0% Spaniard Murcia + 17.0% Orcadian @ 2.866,00
71.0% Spanish Eivissa n=13 + 29.0% Sp_Aragonese n=9 @ 2.87,
71.0% Spaniard Murcia + 29.0% French Canada @ 2.885,00
74.0% Spanish Catalunya_Central n=10 + 26.0% Spaniard Murcia @ 2.888,00

Como lo has hecho? Para mi los oracles de K13 y K15 en GEDmatch estan iguales

sweuro
05-27-2019, 01:43 PM
Como lo has hecho? Para mi los oracles de K13 y K15 en GEDmatch estan iguales
Se me olvidó decirlo, son mis propios oracles los he creado yo y he añadido las muestras.

Ruderico
05-27-2019, 01:48 PM
Se me olvidó decirlo, son mis propios oracles los he creado yo y he añadido las muestras.
Vale tío, puedes hacer el mismo para mi y mi novia? Estoy curioso

Yo
# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 34.66
2 West_Med 22.82
3 North_Sea 15.44
4 East_Med 9.05
5 Baltic 6.16
6 Red_Sea 4.62
7 Northeast_African 2.9
8 Eastern_Euro 2.17
9 Sub-Saharan 1.05
10 Siberian 0.5
11 West_Asian 0.43
12 Southeast_Asian 0.2


Ella
Population
North_Sea 22.15
Atlantic 26.85
Baltic 1.97
Eastern_Euro 6.49
West_Med 22.83
West_Asian 0.50
East_Med 11.04
Red_Sea 3.87
South_Asian 0.98
Southeast_Asian 0.84
Siberian 0.16
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.48
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 1.82

sweuro
05-27-2019, 01:59 PM
Vale tío, puedes hacer el mismo para mi y mi novia? Estoy curioso

Yo
# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 34.66
2 West_Med 22.82
3 North_Sea 15.44
4 East_Med 9.05
5 Baltic 6.16
6 Red_Sea 4.62
7 Northeast_African 2.9
8 Eastern_Euro 2.17
9 Sub-Saharan 1.05
10 Siberian 0.5
11 West_Asian 0.43
12 Southeast_Asian 0.2


Ella
Population
North_Sea 22.15
Atlantic 26.85
Baltic 1.97
Eastern_Euro 6.49
West_Med 22.83
West_Asian 0.50
East_Med 11.04
Red_Sea 3.87
South_Asian 0.98
Southeast_Asian 0.84
Siberian 0.16
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.48
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 1.82

Ruderico:

80.0% French SW average n=18 + 20.0% Algerian @ 3.739,
87.0% Sp_La Rioja + 13.0% Moroccan @ 3.806,
98.0% Spaniard Asturias n=4 + 2.0% Ethiopian_Ari_cultivator @ 3.849,
98.0% Spaniard Asturias n=4 + 2.0% Ethiopian_Gumuz @ 3.853,
98.0% Spaniard Asturias n=4 + 2.0% Ethiopian_Wolayta @ 3.877,
95.0% Spanish_Aragon + 5.0% Ethiopian_Tigray @ 3.881,
98.0% Spaniard Asturias n=4 + 2.0% Ethiopian_Oromo @ 3.883,
64.0% Spaniard Murcia n=3 + 36.0% French_Basque @ 3.901,
96.0% Spanish_Aragon + 4.0% Ethiopian_Wolayta @ 3.908,
98.0% Spaniard Asturias n=4 + 2.0% Maasai @ 3.91,
96.0% Spanish_Aragon + 4.0% Ethiopian_Oromo @ 3.915,
98.0% Spaniard Asturias n=4 + 2.0% Sandawe @ 3.928,
98.0% Spaniard Asturias n=4 + 2.0% Somali @ 3.934,
98.0% Spaniard Asturias n=4 + 2.0% Ethiopian_Anuak @ 3.935,
85.0% French SW average n=18 + 15.0% Egyptian @ 3.937,


novia:

90.0% Spanish Barcelonès n=5 + 10.0% Algerian @ 5.83,
92.0% Spanish Barcelonès n=5 + 8.0% Moroccan @ 5.937,
92.0% Spanish Castelló n=7 + 8.0% Algerian @ 6.022,
95.0% Spanish Barcelonès n=5 + 5.0% Saudi @ 6.055,
92.0% Spanish Castelló n=7 + 8.0% Moroccan @ 6.059,
67.0% Spanish Castelló n=7 + 33.0% White_Uruguay @ 6.073,
95.0% Spanish Castelló n=7 + 5.0% Mari @ 6.076,
54.0% Spanish_Extremadura + 46.0% Spanish Castelló n=7 @ 6.115,
93.0% Spanish Castelló n=7 + 7.0% Tunisian @ 6.141,
95.0% Spanish Castelló n=7 + 5.0% Chuvash @ 6.16,
61.0% Portuguese + 39.0% Spanish Castelló n=7 @ 6.177,
94.0% Spanish Barcelonès n=5 + 6.0% Egyptian @ 6.177,
93.0% Spanish Barcelonès n=5 + 7.0% Tunisian @ 6.181,
95.0% Spanish Castelló n=7 + 5.0% Turkmen @ 6.188,

Ruderico
05-27-2019, 02:11 PM
Gracias, es semellante a los resultados de Admixturestudio en K15, la diferencia es que el oracle de Admixstudio me da solo Aragón y zero Asturias, talvez porque no tiene la referencia. A ver yo soy basicamente norte Iberico com nordeafricano del occidente de la peninsula. Pero Portugal o Galicia nunca aparecen.

Los resultados de mi novia son curiosos, no los esperaba, ella es de un pueblo muy cerca de la raya com el norte de Extremadura. Supongo que medio Extremeña medio Catalana/Valenciana no esta mal.


EDIT:

Supongo que en el nuevo estudio yo tendria una barra naranja muy grande y una verde pequeña, en comparacíon con los otros Portugueses. Probablemente yo también tendria una barra azur escura pequeña porque no tengo casi nada de Germánico.
Eso explica porqué siempre parezco medio Vasco en comparación con los otros Portugueses, mi perfil es mas común en España que en Portugal, aunque mis genes sean Portugueses (marcadores, etc)
https://i.postimg.cc/XjmfdQvh/admixturek7.png

Shadogowah
05-27-2019, 02:21 PM
No historical migration could account for Slavic haplogroups in Iberia apart from the East European populations assimilated by the Goths before the 4th century.


El señor que ha escrito esto parece que no se ha leído en su vida ni un solo libro sobre la historia de Al Andalus.

https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saqaliba

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-journal-of-middle-east-studies/article/what-does-the-slave-trade-in-the-saqaliba-tell-us-about-early-islamic-slavery/EDDD35D8FD593AB8D576D11550CF62C6/core-reader

http://www.ijhssnet.com/journals/Vol_7_No_6_June_2017/14.pdf

rober_tce
06-04-2019, 03:02 PM
Hola! Soy nuevo en este foro, encantado de poder encontrarme con paisanos ibéricos por aquí :) soy de España, más concretamente de Andalucía; quería consultaros si no es molestia dónde puedo encargar el global 25, ya que accedo al blog de Eurogenes y no me sale un link para una página donde se puede encargar dicha prueba. Gracias de antemano, y quería felicitaros por el gran trabajo que hacéis para desentrañar la historia genética de nuestros antepasados.

Saludos.

Ruderico
06-04-2019, 03:18 PM
Hola! Soy nuevo en este foro, encantado de poder encontrarme con paisanos ibéricos por aquí :) soy de España, más concretamente de Andalucía; quería consultaros si no es molestia dónde puedo encargar el global 25, ya que accedo al blog de Eurogenes y no me sale un link para la página donde se puede encargar dicha prueba. Gracias de antemano, y quería felicitaros por el gran trabajo que hacéis para desentrañar la historia genética de nuestros antepasados.

Saludos.

Hola, bienvenido, es siempre muy bueno haber mas ibéricos en el foro!

Para tener tus coordenadas de G25 tienes que enviar un mail al autor de Eurogenes (eurogenesblog at gmail dot com) a pedirlo. Vas a tener que enviar tu rawdata de cualquier compania (23andme, FTDNA, etc) y pagar 12USD por paypal. Despues él te envia un mail con tus coordenadas, y ahí entonces podemos hacer modelos ton tus datos. Quantos mas ibéricos con G25, mejor, el dataset regional Español es muy pequeño, cada región solo tiene 3 o 4 muestras

Saludos

rober_tce
06-04-2019, 03:25 PM
Muchas gracias Ruderico por la aclaración.

A ver si puedo ponerme a ello pronto y obtengo las coordenadas de Davidiski.

Un saludo.

jaumemiquel
06-15-2019, 06:45 PM
Hola a todos,

I'm R1B/M269/P312/DF27/Z195/DF17 as i have mentioned in other forums, and I'm from Mallorca, Spain. I'm writing in English to continue with Ruderico's original thread. Any news or further studies on this haplogroup in NE Spain?

thanks so much,

Hilerno
06-23-2019, 10:23 AM
Hola a todos,

I'm R1B/M269/P312/DF27/Z195/DF17 as i have mentioned in other forums, and I'm from Mallorca, Spain. I'm writing in English to continue with Ruderico's original thread. Any news or further studies on this haplogroup in NE Spain?

thanks so much,

Hola jaumemiquel- respecto de las Islas Baleares hay algunos trabajos interesantes que no se si conocerás

Ancient DNA of Phoenician remains indicates discontinuity in the settlement history of Ibiza- Pierre Zalloua- "Our analyses of the mitogenomes of the ancient samples from Ibiza indicate a predominantly European maternal ancestry for the population. Haplogroups H1 and H3, which either emerged from the Franco-Iberian refugia of the LGM, or arrived with early Neolithic expansions, account for 50% of the Ibizan ancient samples"- Puig des Molins

Respecto de Menorca tienes el trabajo de A Malgosa (2.014- Son Olivaret, Cova des Pas), y algunos ejemplos en Szecsenyi et al 2017 (Els Forats de ses Aritges)

Daniel Fernandes et al- Steppe and Iranian ancestry among Bronze Age Central and Western Mediterranean populations- Ron Pinhasi, Daniel Fernandes, David Reich. Steppe related ancestry is known to have reached central Europe ca. 3000 BEC, while Iran related ancestry is known to have reached Greece by 1.500 BCE. However, the time course and extent of their spread into the central/western Mediterranean remains a mistery. We analysed 48 Neolithic and Bronze Age individuals from Sicily, Sardinia and the Balearic Islands aiming to investigate when and how continental European and Aegean influences affected these insular populations. Result show that the first Balearic settlers, has substantial Steppe-related ancestry which was subsequently diluted by increasing proportions of farmer related ancestry.


Naveta des Tudons- 861 antes de Cristo- Hap Y-R1b-P312(x df27)- Mit Hap-U5b1+16189+16192-Este trabajo es la demostración de que la cultura Talayótica también era absolutamente R1b-P312, descendientes de los campaniformes Ibéricos continentales que llegaron a las islas Baleares en 2.500 AC (obviamente desde la costa catalana o valenciana)

En Mallorca hay trabajos de Diaz Villabona (2.009)- yacimientos de Son Real y S'Illot des Porros, los dos creo en la bahia de Alcudia

Magovalle
07-17-2019, 06:30 PM
Hola, amigo. Encantado de conocerte. Me pregunto si no sería mucha molestia que a partir de mi K15 de Eurogenes pudieras sacar la oracle que te sale utilizando tus muestras modernas actualizadas. El problema es que la K15 de Eurogenes utiliza muestras muy antiguas y faltan algunas importantes como: Asturias, Navarra y La Rioja entre otras. Gcs al phasing y a los datos reales de mi madre, he podido montar un par de ficheros sintéticos con la información genética que recibo de cada uno (Ya sabes un 50 pct aproximadamente). Cuando lanzo la K15 observo que se escora hacia el lado de mi madre y me da básicamente: vasco francés (que para mí es un Navarro), aragonés y un pelín de murciano. Para verificar lo que recibo de cada pata me funciona mejor la K13. Mi madre: Aragón, Castilla La Mancha, Valencia, Murcia y Andalucia. En el modo mixto es básicamente aragonesa. Mi padre: Castilla León (para mi es un Asturiano), Portugal (del Norte), Murcia, Galicia y Extremadura. En el modo mixto le da: Sudoeste de Inglaterra, Oeste de Escocia, Irlandés, Orcadiano y residual Castilla León. Muy celta

Estos son los resultados de mi K15:

Population

North_Sea 16.74 Pct
Atlantic 37.40 Pct
Baltic 4.26 Pct
Eastern_Euro 1.42 Pct
West_Med 18.72 Pct
West_Asian 2.03 Pct
East_Med 11.19 Pct
Red_Sea 4.22 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian 0.24 Pct
Siberian 0.10 Pct
Amerindian 1.10 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 2.07 Pct
Sub-Saharan 0.50 Pct

Te agradecería de corazón que vieras cómo saldría mi Oracle (K15) con tu modelo de poblaciones. Mi modelo personalizado más elaborado me da por órden de prevalencia de más importante a menos: Asturias, Portugal, Murcia, Cataluña, Navarra, País Vasco Francés, ... como más relevantes. También tengo un aporte importante de genes norteafricanos y de sefardí. Verás que es un modelo mixto más orientado hacia poblaciones del norte de la Península (sobre todo el Noroeste). Tengo bastante proximidad con Ruderico. Mi bisabuelo (línea paterna directa) era portugués del Norte. Muchas gcs de antemano,

Un saludo,

Martin

Magovalle
07-17-2019, 06:33 PM
Se me ha olvidado indicarlo. Mi post anterior va dirigido a sweuro. Gcs de antemano

sweuro
07-17-2019, 06:58 PM
Hola, amigo. Encantado de conocerte. Me pregunto si no sería mucha molestia que a partir de mi K15 de Eurogenes pudieras sacar la oracle que te sale utilizando tus muestras modernas actualizadas. El problema es que la K15 de Eurogenes utiliza muestras muy antiguas y faltan algunas importantes como: Asturias, Navarra y La Rioja entre otras. Gcs al phasing y a los datos reales de mi madre, he podido montar un par de ficheros sintéticos con la información genética que recibo de cada uno (Ya sabes un 50 pct aproximadamente). Cuando lanzo la K15 observo que se escora hacia el lado de mi madre y me da básicamente: vasco francés (que para mí es un Navarro), aragonés y un pelín de murciano. Para verificar lo que recibo de cada pata me funciona mejor la K13. Mi madre: Aragón, Castilla La Mancha, Valencia, Murcia y Andalucia. En el modo mixto es básicamente aragonesa. Mi padre: Castilla León (para mi es un Asturiano), Portugal (del Norte), Murcia, Galicia y Extremadura. En el modo mixto le da: Sudoeste de Inglaterra, Oeste de Escocia, Irlandés, Orcadiano y residual Castilla León. Muy celta

Estos son los resultados de mi K15:

Population

North_Sea 16.74 Pct
Atlantic 37.40 Pct
Baltic 4.26 Pct
Eastern_Euro 1.42 Pct
West_Med 18.72 Pct
West_Asian 2.03 Pct
East_Med 11.19 Pct
Red_Sea 4.22 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian 0.24 Pct
Siberian 0.10 Pct
Amerindian 1.10 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 2.07 Pct
Sub-Saharan 0.50 Pct

Te agradecería de corazón que vieras cómo saldría mi Oracle (K15) con tu modelo de poblaciones. Mi modelo personalizado más elaborado me da por órden de prevalencia de más importante a menos: Asturias, Portugal, Murcia, Cataluña, Navarra, País Vasco Francés, ... como más relevantes. También tengo un aporte importante de genes norteafricanos y de sefardí. Verás que es un modelo mixto más orientado hacia poblaciones del norte de la Península (sobre todo el Noroeste). Tengo bastante proximidad con Ruderico. Mi bisabuelo (línea paterna directa) era portugués del Norte. Muchas gcs de antemano,

Un saludo,

Martin

Buenas, el modelo que obtengo con tus resultados de K15 con mis poblaciones es el siguiente:

Primero las poblaciones/individuos más cercanos a ti :
("_indiv" signifca que se trata de un solo individuo, sino pone nada es la media de esa población), el número que sigue es la distancia euclediana:

Spaniard Asturias_individ 4,016
Spanish Terres_de_l'Ebre_indiv 4,28
Spanish Camp_de_Tarragona_indiv 4,80
Spaniard Catalan_indiv 4,96
Spaniard Asturias 5,48
Spaniard Galician_indiv 5,7
Spaniard Murcia_indiv 6,05
Spaniard Catalan_indiv 6,18
Spanish València_indiv 6,24
Spaniard Catalan_indiv 6,27
Spanish_Aragon 6,52
Spaniard La Rioja 6,6
Spaniard Andalusian_indiv 6,64


En el modo mixto obtengo:

81.0% Spaniard Basques n=15 + 19.0% Egyptian @ 4.628,
82.0% Spaniard Basques n=15 + 18.0% Palestinian @ 4.771,
82.0% Spaniard Basques n=15 + 18.0% Bedouin @ 4.831,
82.0% Spaniard Basques n=15 + 18.0% Jordanian @ 4.837,
85.0% Spaniard Basques n=15 + 15.0% Yemenite_Jewish @ 4.854,
83.0% Spaniard Basques n=15 + 17.0% Lebanese_Druze @ 4.934,
83.0% Spaniard Basques n=15 + 17.0% Iraq @ 4.972,
81.0% Spaniard Basques n=15 + 19.0% Lebanese_Muslim @ 5.021,
78.0% Spaniard Basques n=15 + 22.0% Tunisian_Jewish @ 5.035,
85.0% French SW average n=18 + 15.0% Egyptian @ 5.108,
85.0% Spaniard Basques n=15 + 15.0% Iraqi_Jews @ 5.143,
86.0% French SW average n=18 + 14.0% Lebanese_Druze @ 5.162,
88.0% French SW average n=18 + 12.0% Iraqi_Jews @ 5.172,
86.0% French SW average n=18 + 14.0% Palestinian @ 5.207,
86.0% French SW average n=18 + 14.0% Iraq @ 5.232,
82.0% French SW average n=18 + 18.0% Tunisian_Jewish @ 5.289,
84.0% Spaniard Basques n=15 + 16.0% Saudi @ 5.301,
85.0% French SW average n=18 + 15.0% Lebanese_Muslim @ 5.373,
81.0% Spaniard Basques n=15 + 19.0% Syrian @ 5.382,
88.0% French SW average n=18 + 12.0% Yemenite_Jewish @ 5.415,

Magovalle
07-17-2019, 07:16 PM
Muchas gcs, amigo por tu tiempo. El trabajo es impecable. Es decir que a nivel grupal las poblaciones más próximas serían: Asturias, Aragón y La Rioja. Y a nivel individual las muestras más cercanas corresponden a tres personas de: Aragón, Tierras del Ebro (¿de qué zona hablaríamos?) y Campo de Tarragona. Y en cuanto al modo mixto: fundamentalmente vasco aquitano con un pequeño toque judío y de poblaciones de Oriente Medio. Corrígeme si me equivoco. Si me surge alguna duda ya te iré preguntando. Cuídate mucho,

Un fuerte abrazo,

Martin

Magovalle
07-17-2019, 07:29 PM
Hola, de nuevo, sweuro. Un último favor. Si te paso los resultados de mi K13. ¿Podrías sacarme el modelo correspondiente?. Por si acaso te los remito. Si puedes bien y si no se le saluda. No hay compromismo. Sólo quiero verificar si hay mucha variación en el resultado con respecto a la K15 al incorporar las poblaciones modernas de tu modelo. La K13 suele ser más potente:

# Population Percent
ast
1 North_Atlantic 42.97
2 West_Med 24.3
3 East_Med 13.31
4 Baltic 8.09
5 Red_Sea 4.27
6 West_Asian 2.68
7 Northeast_African 1.94
8 Amerindian 1.4
9 Sub-Saharan 0.68
10 East_Asian 0.35
11 Siberian 0.01

Muchas gcs de antemano por tu colaboración. Un fuerte abrazo, amigo

Martín

Magovalle
07-18-2019, 04:18 PM
Hola, amigos. Con las indicaciones de los maestros del grupo (sweuro y ruderico). He montado mi propio modelo ibérico. En ambos he introducido el componente visigótico. Elaboré un modelo con las coordenadas germánicas medievales del modelo de Szoland (buscando un modelo para los suevos) pero el componente germánico se me disparaba

Modelo base (Ruderico):

[1] "distance%=1.3547"

FT_MH

Iberia_North_IA,70.8
ITA_Collegno_MA_o1,14.4
Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL,8.2
Canary_Islands_Guanche,6.6

Modelo sencillo pero muy equilibrado: Celtíbero alto, Roma Imperial, Visigodo y Norteafricano muy en la línea de lo esperado

Modelo base (sweuro):

1] "distance%=1.5285"

FT_MH

Iberia_North_IA,68.8
Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL,12.6
Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2,9.4
Iberia_Central_CA_Afr,9.2

El norteafricano un poco elevado. El resto equilibrado

Un saludo

Ruderico
08-23-2019, 10:20 AM
Muchas gracias Ruderico por la aclaración.

A ver si puedo ponerme a ello pronto y obtengo las coordenadas de Davidiski.

Un saludo.

Ya tienes tus coordenadas tío?




Ahora que tenemos referencia Asturiana he usado mi modelo para estudarla. Es virtualmente igual a mi.
Tal vez mi región de origen fue repoblada por emigrantes Asturianos en vez de Gallegos durante la alta edad média?

[1] "distance%=1.9147"

Spanish_Asturias

Celtiberian,82.6
North_African,9.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,4.8
Armenia_LBA,2.2
Suebi_proxy,0.4
Yoruba,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.9512"

Ruderico

Celtiberian,81
North_African,9.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,4.6
Armenia_LBA,3
Levant_Roman,0.8
Yoruba,0.8


[1] "distance%=1.0007"

Portuguese

Celtiberian,64.6
North_African,11
Suebi_proxy,9.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,8.8
Armenia_LBA,3.6
Levant_Roman,2.2




Edit: Los otros

[1] "distance%=1.7564"

Spanish_Navarra

Celtiberian,75.6
Suebi_proxy,9.2
North_African,5.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,5.2
Levant_Roman,4.4
Armenia_LBA,0.2


[1] "distance%=2.4158"

Spanish_Soria

Celtiberian,77
Suebi_proxy,8.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,6.4
North_African,5.4
Levant_Roman,1.6
Armenia_LBA,1


[1] "distance%=2.0097"

Spanish_La_Rioja

Celtiberian,79.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,9.4
Levant_Roman,5.8
North_African,2.8
Suebi_proxy,2.6



Es posible que el "Suebi_proxy" en Navarra sea una consequencia de Godos o migrantes/cavalleros Franceses? La referencia Visigoda muestra resultados muy cercanos

[1] "distance%=1.7888"

Spanish_Navarra

Celtiberian,77.6
Visigothic,8.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,5.2
North_African,4.8
Levant_Roman,2.4
Armenia_LBA,1.4

rober_tce
08-23-2019, 06:31 PM
Ya tienes tus coordenadas tío?




Ahora que tenemos referencia Asturiana he usado mi modelo para estudarla. Es virtualmente igual a mi.
Tal vez mi región de origen fue repoblada por emigrantes Asturianos en vez de Gallegos durante la alta edad média?

[1] "distance%=1.9147"

Spanish_Asturias

Celtiberian,82.6
North_African,9.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,4.8
Armenia_LBA,2.2
Suebi_proxy,0.4
Yoruba,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.9512"

Ruderico

Celtiberian,81
North_African,9.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,4.6
Armenia_LBA,3
Levant_Roman,0.8
Yoruba,0.8


[1] "distance%=1.0007"

Portuguese

Celtiberian,64.6
North_African,11
Suebi_proxy,9.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,8.8
Armenia_LBA,3.6
Levant_Roman,2.2




Edit: Los otros

[1] "distance%=1.7564"

Spanish_Navarra

Celtiberian,75.6
Suebi_proxy,9.2
North_African,5.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,5.2
Levant_Roman,4.4
Armenia_LBA,0.2


[1] "distance%=2.4158"

Spanish_Soria

Celtiberian,77
Suebi_proxy,8.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,6.4
North_African,5.4
Levant_Roman,1.6
Armenia_LBA,1


[1] "distance%=2.0097"

Spanish_La_Rioja

Celtiberian,79.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,9.4
Levant_Roman,5.8
North_African,2.8
Suebi_proxy,2.6



Es posible que el "Suebi_proxy" en Navarra sea una consequencia de Godos o migrantes/cavalleros Franceses? La referencia Visigoda muestra resultados muy cercanos

[1] "distance%=1.7888"

Spanish_Navarra

Celtiberian,77.6
Visigothic,8.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,5.2
North_African,4.8
Levant_Roman,2.4
Armenia_LBA,1.4

Sí ya obtuve mis coordenadas, y he estado un tiempo investigando y creando calculadoras para poder rastrear tanto la ascendencia moderna como antigua (además de usar las publicadas en este foro). Es muy útil y estoy gratamente sorprendido con los resultados que obtengo.

En cuanto a tus resultados, veo bastante factible que tu región pudiese haber sido repoblada por asturianos. Desde el Reino de Asturias en la Alta Edad Media partieron los primeros repobladores, ya que debido al crecimiento poblacional que estaban experimentando, algunos tuvieron que emigrar hacia el sur.

Respecto a los suevos, sabemos que entraron por los Pirineos junto a los vándalos y alanos, y se acabaron estableciendo en la Gallaecia. ¿Quizás dejaron un rastro genético en Navarra? Lo cierto es que es curioso que al sustituir suevos proxy por visigodos alcancen el mismo porcentaje.

Ruderico
08-23-2019, 07:40 PM
Sí ya obtuve mis coordenadas, y he estado un tiempo investigando y creando calculadoras para poder rastrear tanto la ascendencia moderna como antigua (además de usar las publicadas en este foro). Es muy útil y estoy gratamente sorprendido con los resultados que obtengo.

En cuanto a tus resultados, veo bastante factible que tu región pudiese haber sido repoblada por asturianos. Desde el Reino de Asturias en la Alta Edad Media partieron los primeros repobladores, ya que debido al crecimiento poblacional que estaban experimentando, algunos tuvieron que emigrar hacia el sur.

Respecto a los suevos, sabemos que entraron por los Pirineos junto a los vándalos y alanos, y se acabaron estableciendo en la Gallaecia. ¿Quizás dejaron un rastro genético en Navarra? Lo cierto es que es curioso que al sustituir suevos proxy por visigodos alcancen el mismo porcentaje.

Si, ya lo tenia visto cuando he corrido los modelos para los miembros Portugueses de AG, el porcentaje de Suevo y Visigodo es virtualmente el mismo. Tal vez ellos tengan algo más caracteristicamente germánico que las otras referencias no tengan? Pero esta referencia "suebi_proxy" no es verdaderamente Sueva, la he constuido con muestras exclusivamente germánicas de la alta edad media de Alemania, y Lombardos de Hungría y Italia. La referencia Visigoda es de Olalde2019, y verdaderamente Gotica.

Navarra tuvo tierras y relaciones en/con Francia, puede ser que el "suevo"/visigodo en los modelos sea una consecuencia de eso?

rober_tce
08-24-2019, 12:54 AM
Si, ya lo tenia visto cuando he corrido los modelos para los miembros Portugueses de AG, el porcentaje de Suevo y Visigodo es virtualmente el mismo. Tal vez ellos tengan algo más caracteristicamente germánico que las otras referencias no tengan? Pero esta referencia "suebi_proxy" no es verdaderamente Sueva, la he constuido con muestras exclusivamente germánicas de la alta edad media de Alemania, y Lombardos de Hungría y Italia. La referencia Visigoda es de Olalde2019, y verdaderamente Gotica.

Navarra tuvo tierras y relaciones en/con Francia, puede ser que el "suevo"/visigodo en los modelos sea una consecuencia de eso?

Entonces la muestra combinada que has hecho de suevo proxy vendría a corroborar que en su composición serían similares a la muestra goda, además los propios godos pasaron desde Götaland (o eso se cree) al este de Europa, y luego hacia el oeste, por lo cual podrían haberse mezclado con algunas poblaciones germanas de la zona (esto es especulación por mi parte).

Navarra es cierto que tuvo una estrecha relación con Francia a lo largo de su historia. En la Galia se asentaron los francos, germanos que provenían de la Baja Renania y Westfalia, y en su avance sobre el oeste presionaron a los visigodos de Tolosa y los expulsaron de Aquitania-Narbonense y se asentaron en Hispania. En el año 824 se funda el Reino de Pamplona, en un territorio que pertenecía anteriormente a la Marca Hispánica que Carlomagno constituyó entre el Ebro y los Pirineos. El Reino de Francia que surge tras la partición del Imperio Carolingio a consecuencia del Tratado de Verdún en el 843 seguía siendo franco. Por lo tanto, tiene lógica en mi opinión que la genética de los francos (en definitiva germana) haya influido en los territorios del norte de la Península ibérica, específicamente los que siguen a los Pirineos. Luego en el devenir de los siglos las relaciones entre Navarra y Francia continuaron.

Ruderico
08-24-2019, 01:25 AM
Entonces la muestra combinada que has hecho de suevo proxy vendría a corroborar que en su composición serían similares a la muestra goda, además los propios godos pasaron desde Götaland (o eso se cree) al este de Europa, y luego hacia el oeste, por lo cual podrían haberse mezclado con algunas poblaciones germanas de la zona (esto es especulación por mi parte).

Navarra es cierto que tuvo una estrecha relación con Francia a lo largo de su historia. En la Galia se asentaron los francos, germanos que provenían de la Baja Renania y Westfalia, y en su avance sobre el oeste presionaron a los visigodos de Tolosa y los expulsaron de Aquitania-Narbonense y se asentaron en Hispania. En el año 824 se funda el Reino de Pamplona, en un territorio que pertenecía anteriormente a la Marca Hispánica que Carlomagno constituyó entre el Ebro y los Pirineos. El Reino de Francia que surge tras la partición del Imperio Carolingio a consecuencia del Tratado de Verdún en el 843 seguía siendo franco. Por lo tanto, tiene lógica en mi opinión que la genética de los francos (en definitiva germana) haya influido en los territorios del norte de la Península ibérica, específicamente los que siguen a los Pirineos. Luego en el devenir de los siglos las relaciones entre Navarra y Francia continuaron.

Si, los Visigodos de Olalde son un poco mezclados con grupos de Sudeste Europeo. Uno de ellos (I12034) era Vasco, o Francés del Sur, pero lo he quitado de mi referencia média Goda. Cuanto al resto estoy de acuerdo contigo.





Bueno, he decidido postar resultados de mis modelos "standard" que uso para estudar muestras de Portugueses. Son versiones mejoradas de los que he postado antes.
Voy a incluir el código para que lo puedan ver y/o cambiar algo si quieren (quitar Yoruba me parece bien). Pueden correr estes modelos y postar sus resultados para compararmos. He usado penalidade standard y coordenadas regulares/unscaled.

Aqui unos plots de G25, primero solo son medias del suroeste Europeo, el segundo con todas las referencias del oeste Euroasiatico (el más relevante).
https://i.postimg.cc/c0n2PtPf/g25iberiaaverage.png
https://i.postimg.cc/2kXvd6w5/g25-westeurasia-iberiazoom.png
Aquí un hierarchical cluster, porque no? (https://i.postimg.cc/KZzK8bPr/euclidean-cluster.png)


Por hoy (ya es tarde) el modelo com muestras de la edad de bronze, con excepción del nordafricano que es la média Guanche medieval. Por veces la referencia germánica "come" el Ibérico o Celta, pero eso probablemente significa que la muestra testada tiene mayor afinidade con los germánicos do que los otros individuos. Es el caso de Galicia, por ejemplo. El mismo se puede pasar con las referencias mediterranicas.
Para mi el importante es ver las variaciones regionales, cuales las referencias mejores y cuales tienen más o menos nordafricano y mediterranico (mycenas+levante+armenia).

Una nota: la referencia Celta es de Chequia y solo incluye una muestra. Referencias individuales pueden ser muy buenas o muy malas para personas diferentes, por lo tanto yo evito usarlas, una referencia média generalmente elimina estas variaciones. Pero aquí no puedo hacer nada, la otra muestra Celta Continental esta mezclada con algo más Asiático (Cita o asi).
Es bueno ver que la referencia Vasca prefiere el Iberia_BA al Celta, como seria de esperar, pero naturalmente los Vascos no son Ibéricos de la edad del bronze, tienen algo mas centro Europeo que sus antepasados. Pero extrañamente Soria y La Rioja no se quedan con Hallstatt...puede ser que la referencia no es buena para ellos.


,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Mycenaean,0.009475,0.0154,-0.00215,-0.020025,0.00705,-0.009725,-0.000225,-0.000925,0.00265,0.025975,0.0034,0.0113,-0.0086,-0.00045,-0.012075,-0.0074,0.016125,0.00285,0.0098,-0.003175,-0.0047,0.00015,-0.00535,0.00095,-6e-04
Iberia_BA,0.0112,0.01525,0.0144,-2e-04,0.022,0.0013,-0.00095,8e-04,0.0194,0.0301,-9e-04,0.00475,-0.0142,-0.0176,0.00645,0.00135,-0.00045,0.00235,0.00155,0.0027,0.00485,-0.00075,-0.00725,-0.01265,0.00885
Hallstatt_Celt:DA111,0.0109,0.0149,0.0168,0.0081,0 .0142,0.0021,0.0005,0.001,0.0102,0.0134,-0.0076,0.0001,-0.0112,-0.0023,0.0108,-0.0072,-0.014,0.003,0.0047,0.0013,0.0079,0.0049,-0.0036,-0.0049,-0.0044
Nordic_BA,0.0103,0.0136667,0.0177333,0.0172333,0.0 098,0.0085333,0.0049667,0.0007667,-0.0004667,-0.0020667,-0.0015333,0.0024667,-0.0038667,-0.0101333,0.0104333,0.0083333,0.0082667,0.0033667, 0.0052,0.0022667,0.0091667,-0.0039667,0.0022,-0.0017333,-0.0062333
Armenia_MBA,0.0091,0.01205,-0.0084,-0.0041,-0.0114,-0.001,0.0014,-0.00285,-0.0262,-0.01035,0.00255,0,-0.00515,0.00125,0.01025,-2e-04,0.00065,-0.0029,0.00045,-1e-04,0.00435,0.00105,0.0044,-0.00065,8e-04
North_African,-0.00346,0.01294,-0.00062,-0.02128,0.01096,-0.01304,-0.01276,0.00358,0.03466,0.01676,0.00466,-0.004,0.01228,-0.01286,0.0171,-0.00984,0.00244,-0.01516,-0.03526,0.00832,-0.0108,-0.0305,0.01888,-0.00098,0.00386
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,0.00714,0.01446,-0.01626,-0.03032,-0.00342,-0.01396,-0.00204,-0.00286,0.0056,0.00558,0.00646,-0.00652,0.01452,0.004,-0.00558,0.00492,-0.00012,-0.00094,0.0012,0.0034,0.00342,0.0061,-0.00102,0.00132,-0.00042
Yoruba,-0.0553545,0.0061545,0.0058636,0.0051727,0.0001636, 0.0044727,-0.0189,0.0207,-0.0239,0.0179818,0.0028455,0.0005273,0.0155091,0.0 006909,0.0092273,-0.0072455,0.0054273,0.0003545,0.0047909,-0.0023909,0.0012455,0.0018727,-0.0014273,-0.0003909,-0.0003545



[1] "distance%=1.1419"

Spanish_Galicia

Iberia_BA,46.4
Nordic_BA,29
North_African,10.4
Mycenaean,7
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,4
Armenia_MBA,3
Yoruba,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.989"

Portuguese

Iberia_BA,32.4
Hallstatt_Celt,25.6
Nordic_BA,13
North_African,11.8
Mycenaean,8.2
Armenia_MBA,5.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3.4


[1] "distance%=1.5497"

Spanish_Asturias

Hallstatt_Celt,60.6
Iberia_BA,25
North_African,9.4
Mycenaean,2.8
Armenia_MBA,1.8
Yoruba,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.2471"

Spanish_Cantabria

Iberia_BA,44.8
Hallstatt_Celt,26.4
Nordic_BA,12.2
Mycenaean,7.2
North_African,4.6
Armenia_MBA,2.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.2


[1] "distance%=1.0138"

Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon

Hallstatt_Celt,46.4
Iberia_BA,24.4
North_African,10
Nordic_BA,6.6
Mycenaean,6.4
Armenia_MBA,3.2
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.8
Yoruba,0.2


[1] "distance%=1.7559"

Spanish_Soria

Iberia_BA,54.6
Nordic_BA,33.4
Mycenaean,7.6
North_African,4.2
Armenia_MBA,0.2


[1] "distance%=1.5914"

Spanish_La_Rioja

Iberia_BA,64.2
Nordic_BA,16.4
Mycenaean,10.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3.4
North_African,2.6
Hallstatt_Celt,2
Armenia_MBA,0.8


[1] "distance%=1.6555"

Spanish_Navarra

Iberia_BA,49.8
Hallstatt_Celt,22.6
Nordic_BA,10.4
North_African,5.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,4.6
Armenia_MBA,3.6
Mycenaean,2.6
Yoruba,0.6


[1] "distance%=1.0601"

Basque_Spanish

Iberia_BA,68
Hallstatt_Celt,25.6
Nordic_BA,5.4
North_African,0.6
Armenia_MBA,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.1446"

Spanish_Pais_Vasco

Hallstatt_Celt,51.4
Iberia_BA,45.8
North_African,1.4
Armenia_MBA,1
Mycenaean,0.4


[1] "distance%=0.9542"

Spanish_Aragon

Hallstatt_Celt,38.2
Iberia_BA,36.4
Mycenaean,8.8
North_African,6.6
Nordic_BA,6.2
Armenia_MBA,2.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,1


[1] "distance%=0.7867"

Spanish_Pirineu

Iberia_BA,43.6
Hallstatt_Celt,24.6
Nordic_BA,10.4
Mycenaean,9.2
North_African,6.8
Armenia_MBA,3.4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2


[1] "distance%=0.9344"

Spanish_Girona

Iberia_BA,32
Hallstatt_Celt,22.4
Nordic_BA,21.8
Mycenaean,12.2
North_African,5
Armenia_MBA,3.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.8
Yoruba,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.8873"

Spanish_Catalunya_Central

Iberia_BA,35.2
Hallstatt_Celt,24.8
Nordic_BA,20
Mycenaean,8.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,4.2
North_African,4
Armenia_MBA,3


[1] "distance%=0.8959"

Spanish_Cataluna

Iberia_BA,37.4
Hallstatt_Celt,26
Nordic_BA,16.8
Mycenaean,7.8
North_African,6.4
Armenia_MBA,2.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.6
Yoruba,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.6397"

Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre

Hallstatt_Celt,42
Iberia_BA,29.6
Mycenaean,10.6
Nordic_BA,6
North_African,5.6
Armenia_MBA,4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2
Yoruba,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.8696"

Spanish_Castello

Iberia_BA,45.8
Hallstatt_Celt,18.4
Nordic_BA,16
Mycenaean,11.6
North_African,3.4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.8
Armenia_MBA,2


[1] "distance%=1.1164"

Spanish_Alacant

Iberia_BA,39
Hallstatt_Celt,24.8
Nordic_BA,12
Mycenaean,8.6
North_African,6.8
Armenia_MBA,5.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.8
Yoruba,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.7492"

Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha

Hallstatt_Celt,39.2
Iberia_BA,33.4
Mycenaean,9
Nordic_BA,6.2
North_African,5.4
Armenia_MBA,3.4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3.4


[1] "distance%=0.6169"

Spanish_Murcia

Iberia_BA,36
Hallstatt_Celt,24.6
Mycenaean,13.6
Nordic_BA,11.8
North_African,6.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,4.4
Armenia_MBA,2.8


[1] "distance%=0.8535"

Spanish_Andalucia

Iberia_BA,32.2
Hallstatt_Celt,30.6
Mycenaean,10.6
Nordic_BA,9
North_African,7.4
Armenia_MBA,7
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3.2


[1] "distance%=0.8491"

Spanish_Extremadura

Iberia_BA,37.8
Hallstatt_Celt,20.2
Nordic_BA,13
North_African,10.6
Mycenaean,7.2
Armenia_MBA,6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,5
Yoruba,0.2

Ahora unos estranjeros. Aunque los modelos no han sido hechos para ellos es interessante ver como son sus resultados para comparar.
Los Franceses tienen mucho mas nordico/germanico que nosotros, sin sorpresa. El nordafricano es ruido (creo que los valores de los modelos son un poco mayores al real). Yo soy siempre muy escéptico de porcentajes bajas, pero me parece claro que hasta ellos tienen algo mediterranico (Armenia+Mycenas+Levante ~= 13%), possiblemente del periodo Romano. Los Milaneses son muchissimo mediterranicos, tambien era lo esperado.

[1] "distance%=1.2192"

French

Hallstatt_Celt,36.4
Nordic_BA,35.6
Iberia_BA,11.6
Mycenaean,6.2
Armenia_MBA,5
North_African,3.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,1.6


[1] "distance%=0.9881"

Italian_Bergamo

Mycenaean,39
Hallstatt_Celt,36.2
Nordic_BA,9.2
Iberia_BA,7
Armenia_MBA,4.4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.4
North_African,1.8


Y ahora los resultados de Magovalle, yo e mi novia

[1] "distance%=1.5953"

Ruderico

Hallstatt_Celt,64.4
Iberia_BA,16.4
North_African,10.2
Mycenaean,6
Armenia_MBA,1.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,1
Yoruba,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.5105"

MrsRuderico

Iberia_BA,39.4
Hallstatt_Celt,19.2
Nordic_BA,14.6
North_African,13.8
Mycenaean,8.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2
Armenia_MBA,1.6
Yoruba,0.8


[1] "distance%=1.3421"

Magovalle

Hallstatt_Celt,49.4
Iberia_BA,33.4
North_African,8
Armenia_MBA,4.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.8
Mycenaean,1.2
Yoruba,0.4


Edit: Algunas muestras historicas

[1] "distance%=2.1525"

Iberia_East_IA:I3322

Iberia_BA,52
Hallstatt_Celt,48


[1] "distance%=1.5127"

Iberia_North_IA:I3758

Hallstatt_Celt,64
Iberia_BA,33.6
North_African,2.4


[1] "distance%=1.4703"

Iberia_Southeast_c.3-4CE:I3982

Hallstatt_Celt,42.2
Iberia_BA,21.2
North_African,20.8
Mycenaean,9
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,6.8


[1] "distance%=1.3117"

Germany_Roman:FN_2

Iberia_BA,41.4
Nordic_BA,25
Mycenaean,21.2
Hallstatt_Celt,8.2
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,1.8
Armenia_MBA,1.4
North_African,1


[1] "distance%=1.9585"

Zanzibar_800CE_Iberian:I0588

Iberia_BA,45.8
Hallstatt_Celt,15
Nordic_BA,11.6
Mycenaean,9.8
North_African,9.8
Armenia_MBA,5
Yoruba,3


[1] "distance%=1.6542"

Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10892

Hallstatt_Celt,63.8
Iberia_BA,10.8
Mycenaean,9.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,6.8
North_African,6.4
Armenia_MBA,2.2
Yoruba,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.9643"

Iberia_Southeast_c.10-16CE:I8146

North_African,33
Mycenaean,26.4
Iberia_BA,23.6
Nordic_BA,6.8
Hallstatt_Celt,5
Armenia_MBA,2.8
Yoruba,2.4

rober_tce
08-24-2019, 10:14 AM
Aquí están mis resultados con penalización estandar:

[1] "distance%=1.1614"

rober_tce

Iberia_BA,43.8
Hallstatt_Celt,20.2
Nordic_BA,11.8
Mycenaean,9.4
North_African,8
Armenia_MBA,3.4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3
Yoruba,0.4


También los hice con pen=0:

[1] "distance%=1.1238"

rober_tce

Iberia_BA,45.4
Hallstatt_Celt,17.2
Armenia_MBA,9.8
Nordic_BA,9.8
North_African,9.2
Mycenaean,8.6

Curiosamente en mi caso no varían demasiado con una penalización estandar y con valor 0.

Ruderico
08-24-2019, 10:22 AM
Resultado muy cercano de mi novia, auque menos nordafricano :) edit: ella es de un puebo cerca de norte de Extremadura
A ver si aun hoy posto un modelo de la edad de hierro. Voy a tentar incluir una referencia con muestras Iberas, para las regiones/individuos que son menos cercanos a los Celtiberos de Laguardia, Álava

rober_tce
08-24-2019, 11:35 AM
Tengo una duda desde que estoy con el G25... ¿que es mejor modelar con Pen=0 o Pen=0.001? ¿Depende del modelo que hagas, o siempre es preferible una penalización estándar? He podido comprobar cuando hago calculadoras que cuando uso la estándar en muestras modernas, esta "suaviza" los resultados y si utilizo Pen=0 me muestra mayor información. Pero imagino que será dependiendo de cómo hagas las muestras también...

Ruderico
08-24-2019, 12:05 PM
Como base usa siempre pen=0.001. Solo en casos con componentes muy distinctas se debe usar pen=0. Con muestras viejas pen=0.001 ayuda a tener modelos mas realistas porque las muestras tienen mas ruido, aunque la distancia sea siempre un poquito peor. Pen=0.001 tambien te da resultados que varian um poco, yo corro mis modelos unas 3 o 4 veces y copio el mejor fit.
O entonces con coordenadas scaled, pero yo nunca las uso porque metedologicamente no son muy correctas

rober_tce
08-24-2019, 12:39 PM
Gracias Ruderico por la aclaración. Ahora entiendo por qué los modelos con muestras antiguas salen mejor con la penalización estándar. Cuando uso poblaciones modernas suelo comparar muestras muy dispares, esa debe ser la razón que en ocasiones me salga bien con pen=0.

sweuro
08-24-2019, 01:03 PM
Si, los Visigodos de Olalde son un poco mezclados con grupos de Sudeste Europeo. Uno de ellos (I12034) era Vasco, o Francés del Sur, pero lo he quitado de mi referencia média Goda. Cuanto al resto estoy de acuerdo contigo.





Bueno, he decidido postar resultados de mis modelos "standard" que uso para estudar muestras de Portugueses. Son versiones mejoradas de los que he postado antes.
Voy a incluir el código para que lo puedan ver y/o cambiar algo si quieren (quitar Yoruba me parece bien). Pueden correr estes modelos y postar sus resultados para compararmos. He usado penalidade standard y coordenadas regulares/unscaled.

Aqui unos plots de G25, primero solo son medias del suroeste Europeo, el segundo con todas las referencias del oeste Euroasiatico (el más relevante).
https://i.postimg.cc/c0n2PtPf/g25iberiaaverage.png
https://i.postimg.cc/2kXvd6w5/g25-westeurasia-iberiazoom.png
Aquí un hierarchical cluster, porque no? (https://i.postimg.cc/KZzK8bPr/euclidean-cluster.png)


Por hoy (ya es tarde) el modelo com muestras de la edad de bronze, con excepción del nordafricano que es la média Guanche medieval. Por veces la referencia germánica "come" el Ibérico o Celta, pero eso probablemente significa que la muestra testada tiene mayor afinidade con los germánicos do que los otros individuos. Es el caso de Galicia, por ejemplo. El mismo se puede pasar con las referencias mediterranicas.
Para mi el importante es ver las variaciones regionales, cuales las referencias mejores y cuales tienen más o menos nordafricano y mediterranico (mycenas+levante+armenia).

Una nota: la referencia Celta es de Chequia y solo incluye una muestra. Referencias individuales pueden ser muy buenas o muy malas para personas diferentes, por lo tanto yo evito usarlas, una referencia média generalmente elimina estas variaciones. Pero aquí no puedo hacer nada, la otra muestra Celta Continental esta mezclada con algo más Asiático (Cita o asi).
Es bueno ver que la referencia Vasca prefiere el Iberia_BA al Celta, como seria de esperar, pero naturalmente los Vascos no son Ibéricos de la edad del bronze, tienen algo mas centro Europeo que sus antepasados. Pero extrañamente Soria y La Rioja no se quedan con Hallstatt...puede ser que la referencia no es buena para ellos.


,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Mycenaean,0.009475,0.0154,-0.00215,-0.020025,0.00705,-0.009725,-0.000225,-0.000925,0.00265,0.025975,0.0034,0.0113,-0.0086,-0.00045,-0.012075,-0.0074,0.016125,0.00285,0.0098,-0.003175,-0.0047,0.00015,-0.00535,0.00095,-6e-04
Iberia_BA,0.0112,0.01525,0.0144,-2e-04,0.022,0.0013,-0.00095,8e-04,0.0194,0.0301,-9e-04,0.00475,-0.0142,-0.0176,0.00645,0.00135,-0.00045,0.00235,0.00155,0.0027,0.00485,-0.00075,-0.00725,-0.01265,0.00885
Hallstatt_Celt:DA111,0.0109,0.0149,0.0168,0.0081,0 .0142,0.0021,0.0005,0.001,0.0102,0.0134,-0.0076,0.0001,-0.0112,-0.0023,0.0108,-0.0072,-0.014,0.003,0.0047,0.0013,0.0079,0.0049,-0.0036,-0.0049,-0.0044
Nordic_BA,0.0103,0.0136667,0.0177333,0.0172333,0.0 098,0.0085333,0.0049667,0.0007667,-0.0004667,-0.0020667,-0.0015333,0.0024667,-0.0038667,-0.0101333,0.0104333,0.0083333,0.0082667,0.0033667, 0.0052,0.0022667,0.0091667,-0.0039667,0.0022,-0.0017333,-0.0062333
Armenia_MBA,0.0091,0.01205,-0.0084,-0.0041,-0.0114,-0.001,0.0014,-0.00285,-0.0262,-0.01035,0.00255,0,-0.00515,0.00125,0.01025,-2e-04,0.00065,-0.0029,0.00045,-1e-04,0.00435,0.00105,0.0044,-0.00065,8e-04
North_African,-0.00346,0.01294,-0.00062,-0.02128,0.01096,-0.01304,-0.01276,0.00358,0.03466,0.01676,0.00466,-0.004,0.01228,-0.01286,0.0171,-0.00984,0.00244,-0.01516,-0.03526,0.00832,-0.0108,-0.0305,0.01888,-0.00098,0.00386
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,0.00714,0.01446,-0.01626,-0.03032,-0.00342,-0.01396,-0.00204,-0.00286,0.0056,0.00558,0.00646,-0.00652,0.01452,0.004,-0.00558,0.00492,-0.00012,-0.00094,0.0012,0.0034,0.00342,0.0061,-0.00102,0.00132,-0.00042
Yoruba,-0.0553545,0.0061545,0.0058636,0.0051727,0.0001636, 0.0044727,-0.0189,0.0207,-0.0239,0.0179818,0.0028455,0.0005273,0.0155091,0.0 006909,0.0092273,-0.0072455,0.0054273,0.0003545,0.0047909,-0.0023909,0.0012455,0.0018727,-0.0014273,-0.0003909,-0.0003545



[1] "distance%=1.1419"

Spanish_Galicia

Iberia_BA,46.4
Nordic_BA,29
North_African,10.4
Mycenaean,7
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,4
Armenia_MBA,3
Yoruba,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.989"

Portuguese

Iberia_BA,32.4
Hallstatt_Celt,25.6
Nordic_BA,13
North_African,11.8
Mycenaean,8.2
Armenia_MBA,5.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3.4


[1] "distance%=1.5497"

Spanish_Asturias

Hallstatt_Celt,60.6
Iberia_BA,25
North_African,9.4
Mycenaean,2.8
Armenia_MBA,1.8
Yoruba,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.2471"

Spanish_Cantabria

Iberia_BA,44.8
Hallstatt_Celt,26.4
Nordic_BA,12.2
Mycenaean,7.2
North_African,4.6
Armenia_MBA,2.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.2


[1] "distance%=1.0138"

Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon

Hallstatt_Celt,46.4
Iberia_BA,24.4
North_African,10
Nordic_BA,6.6
Mycenaean,6.4
Armenia_MBA,3.2
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.8
Yoruba,0.2


[1] "distance%=1.7559"

Spanish_Soria

Iberia_BA,54.6
Nordic_BA,33.4
Mycenaean,7.6
North_African,4.2
Armenia_MBA,0.2


[1] "distance%=1.5914"

Spanish_La_Rioja

Iberia_BA,64.2
Nordic_BA,16.4
Mycenaean,10.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3.4
North_African,2.6
Hallstatt_Celt,2
Armenia_MBA,0.8


[1] "distance%=1.6555"

Spanish_Navarra

Iberia_BA,49.8
Hallstatt_Celt,22.6
Nordic_BA,10.4
North_African,5.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,4.6
Armenia_MBA,3.6
Mycenaean,2.6
Yoruba,0.6


[1] "distance%=1.0601"

Basque_Spanish

Iberia_BA,68
Hallstatt_Celt,25.6
Nordic_BA,5.4
North_African,0.6
Armenia_MBA,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.1446"

Spanish_Pais_Vasco

Hallstatt_Celt,51.4
Iberia_BA,45.8
North_African,1.4
Armenia_MBA,1
Mycenaean,0.4


[1] "distance%=0.9542"

Spanish_Aragon

Hallstatt_Celt,38.2
Iberia_BA,36.4
Mycenaean,8.8
North_African,6.6
Nordic_BA,6.2
Armenia_MBA,2.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,1


[1] "distance%=0.7867"

Spanish_Pirineu

Iberia_BA,43.6
Hallstatt_Celt,24.6
Nordic_BA,10.4
Mycenaean,9.2
North_African,6.8
Armenia_MBA,3.4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2


[1] "distance%=0.9344"

Spanish_Girona

Iberia_BA,32
Hallstatt_Celt,22.4
Nordic_BA,21.8
Mycenaean,12.2
North_African,5
Armenia_MBA,3.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.8
Yoruba,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.8873"

Spanish_Catalunya_Central

Iberia_BA,35.2
Hallstatt_Celt,24.8
Nordic_BA,20
Mycenaean,8.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,4.2
North_African,4
Armenia_MBA,3


[1] "distance%=0.8959"

Spanish_Cataluna

Iberia_BA,37.4
Hallstatt_Celt,26
Nordic_BA,16.8
Mycenaean,7.8
North_African,6.4
Armenia_MBA,2.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.6
Yoruba,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.6397"

Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre

Hallstatt_Celt,42
Iberia_BA,29.6
Mycenaean,10.6
Nordic_BA,6
North_African,5.6
Armenia_MBA,4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2
Yoruba,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.8696"

Spanish_Castello

Iberia_BA,45.8
Hallstatt_Celt,18.4
Nordic_BA,16
Mycenaean,11.6
North_African,3.4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.8
Armenia_MBA,2


[1] "distance%=1.1164"

Spanish_Alacant

Iberia_BA,39
Hallstatt_Celt,24.8
Nordic_BA,12
Mycenaean,8.6
North_African,6.8
Armenia_MBA,5.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.8
Yoruba,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.7492"

Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha

Hallstatt_Celt,39.2
Iberia_BA,33.4
Mycenaean,9
Nordic_BA,6.2
North_African,5.4
Armenia_MBA,3.4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3.4


[1] "distance%=0.6169"

Spanish_Murcia

Iberia_BA,36
Hallstatt_Celt,24.6
Mycenaean,13.6
Nordic_BA,11.8
North_African,6.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,4.4
Armenia_MBA,2.8


[1] "distance%=0.8535"

Spanish_Andalucia

Iberia_BA,32.2
Hallstatt_Celt,30.6
Mycenaean,10.6
Nordic_BA,9
North_African,7.4
Armenia_MBA,7
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3.2


[1] "distance%=0.8491"

Spanish_Extremadura

Iberia_BA,37.8
Hallstatt_Celt,20.2
Nordic_BA,13
North_African,10.6
Mycenaean,7.2
Armenia_MBA,6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,5
Yoruba,0.2

Ahora unos estranjeros. Aunque los modelos no han sido hechos para ellos es interessante ver como son sus resultados para comparar.
Los Franceses tienen mucho mas nordico/germanico que nosotros, sin sorpresa. El nordafricano es ruido (creo que los valores de los modelos son un poco mayores al real). Yo soy siempre muy escéptico de porcentajes bajas, pero me parece claro que hasta ellos tienen algo mediterranico (Armenia+Mycenas+Levante ~= 13%), possiblemente del periodo Romano. Los Milaneses son muchissimo mediterranicos, tambien era lo esperado.

[1] "distance%=1.2192"

French

Hallstatt_Celt,36.4
Nordic_BA,35.6
Iberia_BA,11.6
Mycenaean,6.2
Armenia_MBA,5
North_African,3.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,1.6


[1] "distance%=0.9881"

Italian_Bergamo

Mycenaean,39
Hallstatt_Celt,36.2
Nordic_BA,9.2
Iberia_BA,7
Armenia_MBA,4.4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.4
North_African,1.8


Y ahora los resultados de Magovalle, yo e mi novia

[1] "distance%=1.5953"

Ruderico

Hallstatt_Celt,64.4
Iberia_BA,16.4
North_African,10.2
Mycenaean,6
Armenia_MBA,1.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,1
Yoruba,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.5105"

MrsRuderico

Iberia_BA,39.4
Hallstatt_Celt,19.2
Nordic_BA,14.6
North_African,13.8
Mycenaean,8.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2
Armenia_MBA,1.6
Yoruba,0.8


[1] "distance%=1.3421"

Magovalle

Hallstatt_Celt,49.4
Iberia_BA,33.4
North_African,8
Armenia_MBA,4.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.8
Mycenaean,1.2
Yoruba,0.4


Edit: Algunas muestras historicas

[1] "distance%=2.1525"

Iberia_East_IA:I3322

Iberia_BA,52
Hallstatt_Celt,48


[1] "distance%=1.5127"

Iberia_North_IA:I3758

Hallstatt_Celt,64
Iberia_BA,33.6
North_African,2.4


[1] "distance%=1.4703"

Iberia_Southeast_c.3-4CE:I3982

Hallstatt_Celt,42.2
Iberia_BA,21.2
North_African,20.8
Mycenaean,9
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,6.8


[1] "distance%=1.3117"

Germany_Roman:FN_2

Iberia_BA,41.4
Nordic_BA,25
Mycenaean,21.2
Hallstatt_Celt,8.2
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,1.8
Armenia_MBA,1.4
North_African,1


[1] "distance%=1.9585"

Zanzibar_800CE_Iberian:I0588

Iberia_BA,45.8
Hallstatt_Celt,15
Nordic_BA,11.6
Mycenaean,9.8
North_African,9.8
Armenia_MBA,5
Yoruba,3


[1] "distance%=1.6542"

Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10892

Hallstatt_Celt,63.8
Iberia_BA,10.8
Mycenaean,9.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,6.8
North_African,6.4
Armenia_MBA,2.2
Yoruba,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.9643"

Iberia_Southeast_c.10-16CE:I8146

North_African,33
Mycenaean,26.4
Iberia_BA,23.6
Nordic_BA,6.8
Hallstatt_Celt,5
Armenia_MBA,2.8
Yoruba,2.4

El componente north-african parece demasiado elevado, incluso los Franceses obtienen 3.6% cuando deberian tener cerca de 0%

Ruderico
08-24-2019, 01:14 PM
El componente north-african parece demasiado elevado, incluso los Franceses obtienen 3.6% cuando deberian tener cerca de 0%

Fue lo que he dicho, pero el valor me parece correcto, o al menos cercano (https://media.springernature.com/lw900/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1038%2Fs41467-018-08272-w/MediaObjects/41467_2018_8272_Fig5_HTML.png), para muchas referencias. Pero este modelo no es para Franceses ni Italianos, no me preocupa su valor de North African.
Tambien hay que considerar la variacion personal, cada referencia solo tiene 3 o 5 muestras, es muy poco, pero es lo que tenemos

Magovalle
08-26-2019, 10:10 AM
Fue lo que he dicho, pero el valor me parece correcto, o al menos cercano (https://media.springernature.com/lw900/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1038%2Fs41467-018-08272-w/MediaObjects/41467_2018_8272_Fig5_HTML.png), para muchas referencias. Pero este modelo no es para Franceses ni Italianos, no me preocupa su valor de North African.
Tambien hay que considerar la variacion personal, cada referencia solo tiene 3 o 5 muestras, es muy poco, pero es lo que tenemos

Hola, amigo:

Quiero que le eches un vistazo a esto. En mi caso el componente escandinavo está presente de alguna manera en mi genética. Tal vez la referencia Nordic_BA no sea la más precisa para definir los marcadores godos que llevamos algunos ibéricos. Aparecen diluidos dentro de la referencia de los celtas de Hallstaat. Nordic_BA es un modelo efectivo para la Edad del Bronce. En mi caso se verifica que si tomo como referencia Swe_IA. Aparecen mis marcadores escandinavos en detrimento de lo céltico. Esto indica que, probablemente, Swe_IA constituya un modelo de referencia más puro y fiable para definir lo visigótico. Al sustituirlo en el modelo de referencia consigo una combinación de poblaciones a una distancia inferior regularizando el modelo con una penalización estándar para acercar el valor de mi primera coordenada a la del modelo de referencia que me da este resultado. Cierto que aunque el fit es ligeramente peor (98.855 pct con Swe_IA frente al 99.975 pct con Nordic_BA en la PC1) consigo que aparezcan mis marcadores escandinavos:

> source("nMonte3.R (ph2ter)")
> getMonte("input.txt","target_sin escalar.txt",pen=0.001)

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"

Hallstatt_Celt:DA111 Iberia_BA Nordic_BA Mycenaean Armenia_MBA Levant_Canaanite_MBA North_African Yoruba
0.2422705 0.2884601 0.4358808 0.5171006 0.6047289 0.6131755 0.7280023 0.8869365


[1] "2. FULL TABLE nMONTE"

[1] "penalty= 0.001"
[1] "Ncycles= 1000"

PC1 PC2 PC3 PC4 PC5 PC6 PC7 PC8 PC9 PC10 PC11 PC12 PC13 PC14
Martin 0.009500000 0.013900000 0.010400000 -0.0023000000 0.013000000 -0.0006000000 -0.0019000 -0.0003000 0.0128000 0.014700000 0.000800000 0.005500000 -0.0088000000 -0.013000000
fitted 0.009502291 0.014709909 0.012193527 0.0008819454 0.014701727 -0.0001762546 -0.0011234 0.0008642 0.0132458 0.018077164 -0.003356309 0.001274255 -0.0091727818 -0.007782418
dif 0.000002291 0.000809909 0.001793527 0.0031819454 0.001701727 0.0004237454 0.0007766 0.0011642 0.0004458 0.003377164 -0.004156309 -0.004225745 -0.0003727818 0.005217582
PC15 PC16 PC17 PC18 PC19 PC20 PC21 PC22 PC23 PC24 PC25
Martin 0.010300000 -0.004800000 -0.012200000 0.001200000 -0.0029000000 -0.003200000 0.006300000 -0.0010000000 -0.0016000000 -0.004100000 0.003200000
fitted 0.008992455 -0.003938491 -0.006658545 0.000948509 0.0002597818 0.002243218 0.004898091 -0.0000006546 -0.0025930546 -0.006652182 0.001023891
dif -0.001307545 0.000861509 0.005541455 -0.000251491 0.0031597818 0.005443218 -0.001401909 0.0009993454 -0.0009930546 -0.002552182 -0.002176109

[1] "distance%=1.346" PC1=>99.975 PCT

Martin

Hallstatt_Celt,50
Iberia_BA,32.8
North_African,8
Armenia_MBA,4.4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3
Mycenaean,1.6
Yoruba,0.2

> source("nMonte3.R (ph2ter)")
> getMonte("input.txt","target_sin escalar.txt",pen=0.001)

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"

Hallstatt_Celt:DA111 Iberia_BA SWE_IA Mycenaean Armenia_MBA Levant_Canaanite_MBA North_African Yoruba
0.2422705 0.2884601 0.4238891 0.5171006 0.6047289 0.6131755 0.7280023 0.8869365


[1] "2. FULL TABLE nMONTE"
[1] "penalty= 0.001"
[1] "Ncycles= 1000"

PC1 PC2 PC3 PC4 PC5 PC6 PC7 PC8 PC9 PC10 PC11 PC12 PC13 PC14 PC15
Martin 0.00950000 0.01390000 0.01040000 -0.00230000 0.01300000 -0.00060000 -0.00190000 -0.00030000 0.0128000 0.01470000 0.00080000 0.00550000 -0.00880000 -0.0130000 0.01030000
fitted 0.00960994 0.01451576 0.01218184 0.00136358 0.01495328 0.00015974 -0.00099304 0.00102104 0.0131966 0.01688488 -0.00231354 0.00127918 -0.00842438 -0.0077555 0.00925262
dif 0.00010994 0.00061576 0.00178184 0.00366358 0.00195328 0.00075974 0.00090696 0.00132104 0.0003966 0.00218488 -0.00311354 -0.00422082 0.00037562 0.0052445 -0.00104738
PC16 PC17 PC18 PC19 PC20 PC21 PC22 PC23 PC24 PC25
Martin -0.00480000 -0.01220000 0.00120000 -0.0029000 -0.0032000 0.00630000 -0.0010000 -0.00160000 -0.00410000 0.00320000
fitted -0.00337078 -0.00638322 0.00111686 0.0003368 0.0022971 0.00425732 -0.0002782 -0.00223182 -0.00563968 0.00179298
dif 0.00142922 0.00581678 -0.00008314 0.0032368 0.0054971 -0.00204268 0.0007218 -0.00063182 -0.00153968 -0.00140702

[1] "distance%=1.3083" PC1=>98.855 PCT

Martin

Hallstatt_Celt,39
Iberia_BA,35.8
SWE_IA,8.8
North_African,8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,4.6
Armenia_MBA,3.4
Mycenaean,0.4

Un saludo amigo

Ruderico
08-26-2019, 10:25 AM
Hola, amigo:

Quiero que le eches un vistazo a esto. En mi caso el componente escandinavo está presente de alguna manera en mi genética. Tal vez la referencia Nordic_BA no sea la más precisa para definir los marcadores godos que llevamos algunos ibéricos. Aparecen diluidos dentro de la referencia de los celtas de Hallstaat. Nordic_BA es un modelo efectivo para la Edad del Bronce. En mi caso se verifica que si tomo como referencia Swe_IA. Aparecen mis marcadores escandinavos en detrimento de lo céltico. Esto indica que, probablemente, Swe_IA constituya un modelo de referencia más puro y fiable para definir lo visigótico. Al sustituirlo en el modelo de referencia consigo una combinación de poblaciones a una distancia inferior regularizando el modelo con una penalización estándar para acercar el valor de mi primera coordenada a la del modelo de referencia que me da este resultado. Cierto que aunque el fit es ligeramente peor (98.855 pct con Swe_IA frente al 99.975 pct con Nordic_BA en la PC1) consigo que aparezcan mis marcadores escandinavos:
Hola Martín!

SWE_IA no es una mustra buena para estimar ancestralidad germánica, he notado que retorna valores poco fiables. Por ejemplo yo sé que soy muy poco germánico (https://i.postimg.cc/Pqbv3nQ6/Ruderico-celt-germ.png), pero con SWE_IA tengo siempre valores muy altos y totalmente irrealistas, por ejemplo

[1] "distance%=1.8378"

Ruderico

Celtiberian,67
SWE_IA,14.4
North_African,10.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,6.2
Armenia_LBA,1.2
Levant_Roman,1

He perguntado a Davidski sobre esta y otras mustras germánicas, él me dijo

I'm not sure what SWE_IA represents exactly. This might be an early Germanic, but I suspect it's too old to be a good reference for Germanic genetic drift and overall Germanic ancestry. In one of my tests this sample is coming out rather North Atlantic.

You need to wait for all those samples from the Viking paper to see what happens with them.

Saludos

Magovalle
08-26-2019, 11:05 AM
Hola Martín!

SWE_IA no es una mustra buena para estimar ancestralidad germánica, he notado que retorna valores poco fiables. Por ejemplo yo sé que soy muy poco germánico (https://i.postimg.cc/Pqbv3nQ6/Ruderico-celt-germ.png), pero con SWE_IA tengo siempre valores muy altos y totalmente irrealistas, por ejemplo

[1] "distance%=1.8378"

Ruderico

Celtiberian,67
SWE_IA,14.4
North_African,10.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,6.2
Armenia_LBA,1.2
Levant_Roman,1

He perguntado a Davidski sobre esta y otras mustras germánicas, él me dijo


Saludos

Hola, de nuevo amigo. Lo descarto de mi modelo personalizado. Esperemos a ver si entre las muestras vikingas encontramos alguna que encaje mejor para nuestro modelo ibérico comun. Cuidate,

Un abrazo

Shadogowah
08-27-2019, 08:11 AM
Hola,

Hasta donde yo se, la migración de los godos por Europa fue bastante larga y con muchas paradas de larga duración hasta finalmente asentarse en la península ibérica.

Si bien sus orígenes se trazan hasta las costas del Báltico y los antepasados de estas gentes tendrían un perfil escandinavo, me parece a mí que los descendientes que finalmente se establecieron en la península ibérica ya tenían que estar muy mezcladitos y su perfil más proximo a los de las gentes del este de europa.

32747

rober_tce
08-27-2019, 10:36 AM
De hecho, he leído en algunas webs que el componente "báltico" en diversas calculadoras de Eurogenes referidos a los ibéricos, podría ser que los propios godos lo hubiesen traído, lo cual no me extrañaría en absoluto... o quizás venga de las migraciones de la cultura yamnaya hacia Europa occidental.

Shadogowah
08-27-2019, 10:37 AM
De hecho, he leído en algunas webs que el componente "báltico" en diversas calculadoras de Eurogenes referidos a los ibéricos, podría ser que los propios godos lo hubiesen traído, lo cual no me extrañaría en absoluto...

Nope. Ese componente es ancestral y mucho más antiguo.


o quizás venga de las migraciones de la cultura yamnaya hacia Europa occidental.

Va a ser esto mas bien.

sweuro
08-27-2019, 11:11 AM
Hola,

Hasta donde yo se, la migración de los godos por Europa fue bastante larga y con muchas paradas de larga duración hasta finalmente asentarse en la península ibérica.

Si bien sus orígenes se trazan en las costas del Báltico y los antepasados de estas gentes tendrían un perfil escandinavo, me parece a mí que los descendientes que finalmente se establecieron en la península ibérica ya tenían que estar muy mezcladitos y su perfil más proximo a los de las gentes del este de europa.

32747
de los 5 visigodos de Girona que tenemos, 3 tienen unperfil germánico, uno parecec nativo ibérico y otro un perfil balcánicoa

Ruderico
08-27-2019, 11:50 AM
de los 5 visigodos de Girona que tenemos, 3 tienen unperfil germánico, uno parecec nativo ibérico y otro un perfil balcánicoa

Comparándolos con los germánicos de Szolad o Collegno, yo diria que todos ellos eran mezclados

Magovalle
08-29-2019, 11:52 PM
Comparándolos con los germánicos de Szolad o Collegno, yo diria que todos ellos eran mezclados

Hola, amigo:

Sólo a título de comentario. Ya en el mes de Marzo, Lucasz los incorporó a sus modelos. Tomó como referencia básica el I12032 con un índice genotípico de 0.17. Y los modelos I12162 e I12163 como referencias secundarias. El primero tiene como proxys: Alemania Occidental, Francia y Sur de Holanda. En el modo mixto es prácticamente germánico en un 83 pct. Aunque las tres referencias pueden utilizarse para obtener un modelo genérico de visigodo. Yo utilizaría única y exclusivamente como proxy de visigodo el de referencia I12032 aunque se trate de un modelo de referencia individual para incorporarlo de manera temporal a cualquiera de nuestros modelos basados en medias de población. Tan sólo es una sugerencia. En esto tú eres el maestro. Un abrazo

E_M81_I3A
10-17-2019, 06:22 PM
El componente north-african parece demasiado elevado, incluso los Franceses obtienen 3.6% cuando deberian tener cerca de 0%

This is in fact because, whenever you mix components from different continents into a G25 model, you should use scaled data, as mentionned by Generalissimo, the author of the tool ("when modeling admixture from outside of Europe always check the scaled data!"), otherwise you can get this kind of issue (like here North African ancestry showing up wrongly for French/North Italians)

And indeed, when using same model using same populations but with scaled data we can see that North African (as well as Levant_Canaanite_MBA) is not showing up anymore for French/North Italians:

[1] "distance%=1.9592"

French

CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany,35.6
Nordic_BA,31.4
Iberia_North_BA,18
ARM_MBA,7.6
GRC_Mycenaean,7.4


[1] "distance%=1.6883"

Italian_Bergamo

GRC_Mycenaean,42.8
CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany,39.8
Nordic_BA,13.4
Iberia_North_BA,3
ARM_MBA,1


[1] "distance%=4.0043"

Iberia_Southeast_c.5-8CE:I3575

Canary_Islands_Guanche,35.6
CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany,22.4
Iberia_North_BA,19.8
ARM_MBA,10.4
GRC_Mycenaean,6.4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,5.4


[1] "distance%=3.0546"

Iberia_Southeast_c.10-16CE:I8146

Canary_Islands_Guanche,38
Iberia_North_BA,22.4
GRC_Mycenaean,21.6
Nordic_BA,7.8
CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany,4.2
Yoruba,3.2
ARM_MBA,2.8

Ruderico
10-17-2019, 07:10 PM
Can you justify technically what you just said? Actually don't, I don't want this thread to become another annoying and pointless discussion about scaling.

By the way, no, the author of nMonte isn't David. It's Huijbregts, and he never scales data. It was also Huijbregts who came up with this form of scaling, but he says it's so bad it should not be used. David tells people to use whatever makes sense to them.

Now if you want to make your models, please go ahead, making a discussion on scaling discussion, no.

E_M81_I3A
10-17-2019, 07:19 PM
I quoted David who can better than anyone else justify this technically so better you ask him directly…. But just looking at the results posted should be enough I guess.

Ruderico
10-17-2019, 07:36 PM
It really isn't.
Please share models or don't bother with this discussion, because it will be deleted. This isn't a thread about scaling.

E_M81_I3A
10-17-2019, 07:38 PM
and here is the post from David :

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?14329-Global-25-avec-Past3&p=484281#post484281

E_M81_I3A
10-17-2019, 08:29 PM
It really isn't.
Please share models or don't bother with this discussion, because it will be deleted. This isn't a thread about scaling.

Ok, understood... I just sent you a PM with an interesting sample.

JJJ
11-18-2019, 08:19 PM
,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Juan_scaled,0.097888,0.138112,0.031678,0.000323,0. 047086,0.001116,-0.003525,0.001615,0.02577,0.040456,-0.005196,0.007943,-0.017096,-0.016515,-0.002307,-0.015115,-0.012517,0.000253,-0.003771,-0.006628,0.000873,-0.005441,0.00037,0.005061,-0.003592

,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Juan,0.0086,0.0136,0.0084,0.0001,0.0153,0.0004,-0.0015,0.0007,0.0126,0.0222,-0.0032,0.0053,-0.0115,-0.012,-0.0017,-0.0114,-0.0096,0.0002,-0.003,-0.0053,0.0007,-0.0044,0.0003,0.0042,-0.003

En vez de decir hola enseño mis coordenadas G25.

-Hola, buenos días.
-
,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Juan_scaled,0.097888,0.138112,0.031678,0.000323,0. 047086,0.001116,-0.003525,0.001615,0.02577,0.040456,-0.005196,0.007943,-0.017096,-0.016515,-0.002307,-0.015115,-0.012517,0.000253,-0.003771,-0.006628,0.000873,-0.005441,0.00037,0.005061,-0.003592

,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Juan,0.0086,0.0136,0.0084,0.0001,0.0153,0.0004,-0.0015,0.0007,0.0126,0.0222,-0.0032,0.0053,-0.0115,-0.012,-0.0017,-0.0114,-0.0096,0.0002,-0.003,-0.0053,0.0007,-0.0044,0.0003,0.0042,-0.003´
-¿?¿?

Que quiero que lo pases por tu modelo si es posible y enjoy.

Empecinado
11-19-2019, 10:23 AM
Hola, aquí mis resultados. Soy mitad gallego (de la zona este) y mitad alicantino, sin descartar algo de antepasados genoveses (Liguria). Curiosamente aun siendo la mitad de mi familia de la otra punta de España la mayor proximidad la tengo a Murcia, que no queda lejos de donde viene mi familia paterna, y en los modelos de mezcla me sale siempre más afinidad con Castilla y León y poca con Galicia, lo cual puede indicar que la zona de montaña al este (cerca del Bierzo leonés) tenga una genética más leonesa que gallega.


Global25

,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Jordi_scaled,0.114961,0.153345,0.040729,-0.00646,0.045239,-0.006693,-0.0047,0.008077,0.025975,0.035172,0.001624,0.00854 2,-0.015758,0.000963,0.011808,-0.009149,-0.011083,-0.00152,0.008799,-0.00988,0.00025,0.001237,0.001356,-0.005181,0.003233

,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Jordi,0.0101,0.0151,0.0108,-0.002,0.0147,-0.0024,-0.002,0.0035,0.0127,0.0193,0.001,0.0057,-0.0106,0.0007,0.0087,-0.0069,-0.0085,-0.0012,0.007,-0.0079,0.0002,0.001,0.0011,-0.0043,0.0027



Distance: 4.5106% / 0.04510634
Aggregated
57.8 Anatolia_Barcin_N
26.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
12.0 WHG
2.2 MAR_Iberomaurusian
1.2 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N


Eurogenes K13

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 41.26
2 West_Med 26
3 East_Med 16.44
4 Baltic 10.2
5 Red_Sea 3.87
6 Northeast_African 1.35
7 Sub-Saharan 0.61
8 Oceanian 0.27

Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Murcia 3.22
2 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 3.75
3 Spanish_Valencia 3.93
4 Portuguese 4.2
5 Spanish_Extremadura 4.75
6 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 4.95
7 Spanish_Cataluna 4.98
8 Spanish_Galicia 5.43
9 Spanish_Andalucia 5.77
10 Spanish_Aragon 6.24
11 Spanish_Cantabria 6.62
12 Southwest_French 8.84
13 North_Italian 10.85
14 French 11.29
15 Tuscan 16.17
16 South_Dutch 17.42
17 West_German 17.72
18 French_Basque 18.27
19 Southeast_English 21.01
20 Southwest_English 21.45





Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 79.1% Spanish_Murcia + 20.9% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.16
2 78.3% Spanish_Murcia + 21.7% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.17
3 99.1% Spanish_Murcia + 0.9% Yemenite_Jewish @ 3.17
4 99.5% Spanish_Murcia + 0.5% Saudi @ 3.21
5 92.3% Spanish_Murcia + 7.7% Portuguese @ 3.21

Eurogenes K15

Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 33.05
2 North_Sea 22.28
3 West_Med 20.12
4 East_Med 13.97
5 Red_Sea 3.99
6 Baltic 3.35
7 Northeast_African 1.64
8 Eastern_Euro 1.24

Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Murcia 5.11
2 Spanish_Extremadura 6.5
3 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 6.64
4 Spanish_Valencia 6.88
5 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 7
6 Spanish_Cataluna 7.06
7 Spanish_Aragon 7.23
8 Portuguese 7.59
9 Spanish_Andalucia 8.17
10 Spanish_Cantabria 8.53
11 Spanish_Galicia 9.41
12 Southwest_French 10.32
13 North_Italian 11.98
14 French 13.16
15 French_Basque 16.06
16 Tuscan 16.95
17 South_Dutch 17.43
18 Southwest_English 19.76
19 West_German 19.99
20 Southeast_English 20.64


Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 94% Spanish_Murcia + 6% French_Basque @ 5.02
2 88% Spanish_Murcia + 12% Spanish_Aragon @ 5.06
3 98.7% Spanish_Murcia + 1.3% Orcadian @ 5.1
4 98.7% Spanish_Murcia + 1.3% West_Scottish @ 5.1
5 99% Spanish_Murcia + 1% Irish @ 5.11

Empecinado
12-02-2019, 09:29 AM
La muestra de Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10892 y similares, que segun veo son las que nos salen mas proximas a muchos ibericos, de donde es exactamente? En que estudio aparecio?

JJJ
12-02-2019, 10:01 AM
Debe ser una muestra catalana medieval muy próxima a los ibéricos modernos, igual que Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10895 (la más similar a mí). Al menos eso me explicaron, de donde salió el estudio ni idea.

Ruderico
12-02-2019, 10:33 AM
Fue de Olalde 2019

Endovelicus
12-02-2019, 10:42 AM
La muestra de Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10892 y similares, que segun veo son las que nos salen mas proximas a muchos ibericos, de donde es exactamente? En que estudio aparecio?

Entre las muestras antiguas esta es la más cercana a mí.

Mapa hecho por Ph2ter

https://i.imgur.com/uumiGcI.png

JJJ
12-02-2019, 10:57 AM
El "895":

https://i.imgur.com/JMbPZcY.png

Una mezcla de los dos, es decir el mío:

https://i.imgur.com/GDYIup4.png

¿Cuántas veces habré mostrado mi mapa? :biggrin1:

Ruderico
12-02-2019, 12:19 PM
Vahaduo ahora ya tiene una penalización como nMonte3, pero los resultados de los modelos no son exactamente iguales, me parecen menos fiables, lo que es normal porque es más rápido y probablemente hace menos ciclos..entonces he simplificado los modelos. Quité la referencia Levantina y me quedé solo con la Romana Imperial como representativa del centro/leste mediterránico. Por otro lado incluí la muestra Gaélica porque ayuda a diferenciar entre las diferentes regiones/muestras, y en nMonte3 las fits mejoran muchísimo.

El objectivo aquí es mostrar PCA plots con base en estos modelos, pero solo con medias regionales (y nosotros), y tentar comprender porque parece que quien es cerca de la muestra Gallega está más lejos de la Asturiana, como dice JJJ

Que existem dois tipos de ibéricos: os que odeiam as Astúrias e os que os amam. Com a Galiza, acontece o mesmo com curiosidade.

https://i.postimg.cc/fZBZLgCx/pc1pc2.png

https://i.postimg.cc/VkMqh0fn/pc1pc3.png

https://i.postimg.cc/nL0dh96g/pc2pc3.png

https://i.postimg.cc/Dzx8p7X1/pc2pc4.png

JJJ
12-02-2019, 01:06 PM
El objectivo aquí es mostrar PCA plots con base en estos modelos, pero solo con medias regionales (y nosotros), y tentar comprender porque parece que quien es cerca de la muestra Gallega está más lejos de la Asturiana, como dice JJJ


Trebaruna es el planeta Ceres en estos gráficos: siempre orbita a lo lejos.

Ruderico
12-02-2019, 01:21 PM
Trebaruna es el planeta Ceres en estos gráficos: siempre orbita a lo lejos.

Si, creo que ella es cerca de Galicia pero con menos Germanico y Romano, pero más Iberia_IA

Empecinado
12-02-2019, 02:04 PM
Perdon por el retraso pero porque la distancia de cada uno de nosotros a una u otra muestra antigua varia segun el mapa?

Ruderico
12-02-2019, 02:15 PM
Porque cada gráfico es solo una representación en 2D (de algo en 5D en este caso), cada un muestra diferentes componentes principales y cada componente tiene eigenvalues (valores proprios) distintos. Si yo cambiar las referencias del modelo, o las muestras, el gráfico y las distancias cambiarán de nuevo. Esto es solo un ejemplo de como cada media regional se puerta con estas referencias. Para mi lo más interesante es como la muestra Gallega le gusta el Germanic_IA, o los Vascos les gustan Iberia_IA

Empecinado
12-02-2019, 02:35 PM
Galicia creo que es junto con el norte de Portugal y el norte de Cataluna la zona con mas densidad de toponimos de origen germanico, quizas el poblamiento suevo a pesar de ser mas pequeno que el visigodo tuvo mas influencia que este en la genetica local. Segun mis observaciones personales, las zonas con toponimos germanicos (nombres derivadas de nombres de reyes suevos) suelen ser aldeas de unas pocas casas, en el interior mas que en la costa y separadas unas de otras.

Ruderico
12-02-2019, 02:46 PM
Galicia creo que es junto con el norte de Portugal y el norte de Cataluna la zona con mas densidad de toponimos de origen germanico, quizas el poblamiento suevo a pesar de ser mas pequeno que el visigodo tuvo mas influencia que este en la genetica local. Segun mis observaciones personales, las zonas con toponimos germanicos (nombres derivadas de nombres de reyes suevos) suelen ser aldeas de unas pocas casas, en el interior mas que en la costa y separadas unas de otras.

Tal vez, o entonces la referencia que yo he usado no es la mejor, porque G25 tiene mucha dificultad en captar el "germánico" porque hay muchísimo ADN en común allí. Es también posible que sea solo algo típico del norte/noroeste de Europa en vez de germánico. Trebaruna es del Centro de Portugal y es semejante a Galicia, rxavierlima es del Norte pero no tiene mucho germánico.

Pero si yo usar Nordic_BA, o unas muestras germánicas del periodo pos-Romano, incluso Visigodos, Galicia aún así tiene más que las otras referencias regionales (si no estoy en error), y Trebaruna continua muchísimo más cerca que yo, por ejemplo.

Magovalle
12-02-2019, 06:59 PM
Vahaduo ahora ya tiene una penalización como nMonte3, pero los resultados de los modelos no son exactamente iguales, me parecen menos fiables, lo que es normal porque es más rápido y probablemente hace menos ciclos..entonces he simplificado los modelos. Quité la referencia Levantina y me quedé solo con la Romana Imperial como representativa del centro/leste mediterránico. Por otro lado incluí la muestra Gaélica porque ayuda a diferenciar entre las diferentes regiones/muestras, y en nMonte3 las fits mejoran muchísimo.

El objectivo aquí es mostrar PCA plots con base en estos modelos, pero solo con medias regionales (y nosotros), y tentar comprender porque parece que quien es cerca de la muestra Gallega está más lejos de la Asturiana, como dice JJJ


https://i.postimg.cc/fZBZLgCx/pc1pc2.png

https://i.postimg.cc/VkMqh0fn/pc1pc3.png

https://i.postimg.cc/nL0dh96g/pc2pc3.png

https://i.postimg.cc/Dzx8p7X1/pc2pc4.png

Hola, Ruderico:

En tu PCA basado en medias de población. ¿Dónde estaría yo? Entiendo que más cerca de las referencias de Castilla-León y Portugal. ¿Podrías verificarlo? Gcs de antemano, amigo

Un abrazo

Magovalle
12-04-2019, 12:24 AM
Debe ser una muestra catalana medieval muy próxima a los ibéricos modernos, igual que Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10895 (la más similar a mí). Al menos eso me explicaron, de donde salió el estudio ni idea.

Del I10895, que figura en el estudio de Olalde, sabemos que su cromosoma Y ha dado positivo para el DF98>S1911. Se trata del haplogrupo que define a la House of Wettin (El famoso Cluster de los Reyes). Esta muestra es medio vikinga y probablemente carolingia. También es provisionalmente el modelo individual de referencia más próximo a mi genoma dentro de la base de datos de Davidski (G25 PCA). Hay muchos ibéricos, como muy bien mencionas, que lo tienen también como modelo más próximo

Un saludo

JJJ
12-04-2019, 09:43 AM
Esta muestra es medio vikinga y probablemente carolingia.


https://i.postimg.cc/Vkd9HBBz/wickie3-370x215.jpg

Gracias por la información, lo que se aprende :biggrin1:

Ruderico
12-04-2019, 11:56 AM
Del I10895, que figura en el estudio de Olalde, sabemos que su cromosoma Y ha dado positivo para el DF98>S1911. Se trata del haplogrupo que define a la House of Wettin (El famoso Cluster de los Reyes). Esta muestra es medio vikinga y probablemente carolingia. También es provisionalmente el modelo individual de referencia más próximo a mi genoma dentro de la base de datos de Davidski (G25 PCA). Hay muchos ibéricos, como muy bien mencionas, que lo tienen también como modelo más próximo

Un saludo

I10895 puede tener origen patrilinear germánica, pero es tan Ibérico como tu o yo


[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
Spanish_Andalucia Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.09187112 0.10619381
Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon Spanish_Lleida
0.10715486 0.11215080
Spanish_Menorca Spanish_Eivissa
0.11372112 0.11507790
Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.11897243 0.11915746
Spanish_Peri-Barcelona Portuguese
0.11956107 0.12031471
Spanish_Valencia Spanish_Aragon
0.12112097 0.12189519
Spanish_Pirineu Spanish_Murcia
0.12773811 0.12791697
Spanish_Baleares Spanish_Extremadura
0.12970241 0.13132068
Spanish_Catalunya_Central Spanish_Girona
0.13410691 0.13477066
Spanish_Mallorca Spanish_Barcelones
0.13930197 0.13949724
Spanish_Penedes Spanish_Cataluna
0.14009164 0.14186691
Spanish_Cantabria Spanish_Alacant
0.14214651 0.15097656
Spanish_Castello French_Auvergne
0.15958034 0.16498424
French_Occitanie Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.17115537 0.17501489
Italian_Lombardy French_Prov_Marseille
0.17621237 0.17794547
French_South Italian_Bergamo
0.17798179 0.18337808
French_Provence French_Corsica
0.18511953 0.18708546
Italian_Veneto Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.19224115 0.19517748
Italian_Piedmont Spanish_Asturias
0.19600446 0.19739301
Spanish_Galicia Spanish_Navarra
0.20326055 0.20595024
Italian_Liguria Italian_Tuscany
0.20921759 0.21596320
Spanish_Pais_Vasco Basque_French
0.22345568 0.22379185
French_Nord Italian_Marche
0.23650612 0.23666550
Italian_Northeast Basque_Spanish
0.23866653 0.23942892
French_Alsace Italian_Umbria
0.24110533 0.24263300
Spanish_La_Rioja French_Paris
0.24405122 0.24579512
Italian_Lazio French_Corsica_o
0.24674848 0.26526213
Spanish_Soria Italian_Abruzzo
0.27085005 0.27294800
French_Rennes_Bretagne Italian_Molise
0.28145882 0.28421823
Italian_South Italian_Campania
0.30232474 0.30235722
Italian_Apulia French_Brittany
0.30424234 0.30530868
Italian_Basilica Italian_Naples
0.30632964 0.31233463
Italian_Calabria Italian_Jew
0.32467445 0.34110240



I10892

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon Spanish_Eivissa
0.1348472 0.1414837
Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.1541318 0.1592779
Spanish_Menorca Spanish_Andalucia
0.1594472 0.1607793
Italian_Lombardy Spanish_Barcelones
0.1655723 0.1676845
Spanish_Aragon Spanish_Valencia
0.1699277 0.1738339
Spanish_Baleares Portuguese
0.1794872 0.1809557
Spanish_Lleida Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.1848832 0.1849791
Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona Spanish_Girona
0.1852465 0.1888331
Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige Spanish_Mallorca
0.1911693 0.1933501
Spanish_Extremadura Italian_Bergamo
0.1970906 0.1972321
Spanish_Alacant Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.1974048 0.1975045
Italian_Liguria Spanish_Pirineu
0.1983961 0.2005993
French_Auvergne Spanish_Murcia
0.2017091 0.2022332
Spanish_Penedes Spanish_Cantabria
0.2052688 0.2054312
Spanish_Cataluna Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.2062778 0.2064806
Italian_Piedmont French_Occitanie
0.2085861 0.2099872
Italian_Veneto French_Prov_Marseille
0.2164767 0.2168059
Spanish_Asturias French_Corsica
0.2215920 0.2226253
French_Provence French_South
0.2262800 0.2298750
Spanish_Castello Italian_Tuscany
0.2310950 0.2325875
Spanish_Pais_Vasco Italian_Marche
0.2374870 0.2382948
Spanish_Navarra Basque_French
0.2448009 0.2484101
French_Nord French_Alsace
0.2557282 0.2561114
Italian_Lazio Italian_Northeast
0.2571591 0.2580768
Italian_Umbria Spanish_Galicia
0.2640839 0.2651914
French_Paris Italian_Abruzzo
0.2657443 0.2763427
Basque_Spanish Italian_Molise
0.2871832 0.2961925
Italian_Apulia Italian_South
0.2996323 0.3008160
Italian_Naples French_Rennes_Bretagne
0.3035279 0.3060342
Italian_Campania Italian_Basilica
0.3070999 0.3138407
Spanish_La_Rioja French_Brittany
0.3184054 0.3244910
French_Corsica_o Spanish_Soria
0.3282941 0.3327187
Italian_Calabria Italian_Jew
0.3338840 0.3426734


Para muestras más recientes/modernas los haplogrupos son virtualmente inútiles y no dicen nada.

Un saludo, amigo

JJJ
12-04-2019, 02:49 PM
I10895 puede tener origen patrilinear germánica, pero es tan Ibérico como tu o yo

https://i.postimg.cc/hPxQrYbn/vickingo.jpg

No pude resistirlo.

Magovalle
12-04-2019, 08:12 PM
I10895 puede tener origen patrilinear germánica, pero es tan Ibérico como tu o yo


[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
Spanish_Andalucia Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.09187112 0.10619381
Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon Spanish_Lleida
0.10715486 0.11215080
Spanish_Menorca Spanish_Eivissa
0.11372112 0.11507790
Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.11897243 0.11915746
Spanish_Peri-Barcelona Portuguese
0.11956107 0.12031471
Spanish_Valencia Spanish_Aragon
0.12112097 0.12189519
Spanish_Pirineu Spanish_Murcia
0.12773811 0.12791697
Spanish_Baleares Spanish_Extremadura
0.12970241 0.13132068
Spanish_Catalunya_Central Spanish_Girona
0.13410691 0.13477066
Spanish_Mallorca Spanish_Barcelones
0.13930197 0.13949724
Spanish_Penedes Spanish_Cataluna
0.14009164 0.14186691
Spanish_Cantabria Spanish_Alacant
0.14214651 0.15097656
Spanish_Castello French_Auvergne
0.15958034 0.16498424
French_Occitanie Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.17115537 0.17501489
Italian_Lombardy French_Prov_Marseille
0.17621237 0.17794547
French_South Italian_Bergamo
0.17798179 0.18337808
French_Provence French_Corsica
0.18511953 0.18708546
Italian_Veneto Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.19224115 0.19517748
Italian_Piedmont Spanish_Asturias
0.19600446 0.19739301
Spanish_Galicia Spanish_Navarra
0.20326055 0.20595024
Italian_Liguria Italian_Tuscany
0.20921759 0.21596320
Spanish_Pais_Vasco Basque_French
0.22345568 0.22379185
French_Nord Italian_Marche
0.23650612 0.23666550
Italian_Northeast Basque_Spanish
0.23866653 0.23942892
French_Alsace Italian_Umbria
0.24110533 0.24263300
Spanish_La_Rioja French_Paris
0.24405122 0.24579512
Italian_Lazio French_Corsica_o
0.24674848 0.26526213
Spanish_Soria Italian_Abruzzo
0.27085005 0.27294800
French_Rennes_Bretagne Italian_Molise
0.28145882 0.28421823
Italian_South Italian_Campania
0.30232474 0.30235722
Italian_Apulia French_Brittany
0.30424234 0.30530868
Italian_Basilica Italian_Naples
0.30632964 0.31233463
Italian_Calabria Italian_Jew
0.32467445 0.34110240



I10892

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon Spanish_Eivissa
0.1348472 0.1414837
Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.1541318 0.1592779
Spanish_Menorca Spanish_Andalucia
0.1594472 0.1607793
Italian_Lombardy Spanish_Barcelones
0.1655723 0.1676845
Spanish_Aragon Spanish_Valencia
0.1699277 0.1738339
Spanish_Baleares Portuguese
0.1794872 0.1809557
Spanish_Lleida Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.1848832 0.1849791
Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona Spanish_Girona
0.1852465 0.1888331
Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige Spanish_Mallorca
0.1911693 0.1933501
Spanish_Extremadura Italian_Bergamo
0.1970906 0.1972321
Spanish_Alacant Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.1974048 0.1975045
Italian_Liguria Spanish_Pirineu
0.1983961 0.2005993
French_Auvergne Spanish_Murcia
0.2017091 0.2022332
Spanish_Penedes Spanish_Cantabria
0.2052688 0.2054312
Spanish_Cataluna Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.2062778 0.2064806
Italian_Piedmont French_Occitanie
0.2085861 0.2099872
Italian_Veneto French_Prov_Marseille
0.2164767 0.2168059
Spanish_Asturias French_Corsica
0.2215920 0.2226253
French_Provence French_South
0.2262800 0.2298750
Spanish_Castello Italian_Tuscany
0.2310950 0.2325875
Spanish_Pais_Vasco Italian_Marche
0.2374870 0.2382948
Spanish_Navarra Basque_French
0.2448009 0.2484101
French_Nord French_Alsace
0.2557282 0.2561114
Italian_Lazio Italian_Northeast
0.2571591 0.2580768
Italian_Umbria Spanish_Galicia
0.2640839 0.2651914
French_Paris Italian_Abruzzo
0.2657443 0.2763427
Basque_Spanish Italian_Molise
0.2871832 0.2961925
Italian_Apulia Italian_South
0.2996323 0.3008160
Italian_Naples French_Rennes_Bretagne
0.3035279 0.3060342
Italian_Campania Italian_Basilica
0.3070999 0.3138407
Spanish_La_Rioja French_Brittany
0.3184054 0.3244910
French_Corsica_o Spanish_Soria
0.3282941 0.3327187
Italian_Calabria Italian_Jew
0.3338840 0.3426734


Para muestras más recientes/modernas los haplogrupos son virtualmente inútiles y no dicen nada.

Un saludo, amigo

Hola, Ruderico. Por supuesto me refería al cromosoma paterno. Su autosomal es marca de la casa. Muy asturleonés. Un abrazo, amigo

Empecinado
12-06-2019, 08:59 AM
Va a salir pronto algun estudio sobre Iberia con nuevas muestras historicas, al estilo del de Olalde?

Ruderico
12-06-2019, 09:17 AM
Que yo sepa, no. Probablemente vamos a tener de esperar años por otro

Amhas
12-11-2019, 05:25 PM
Hola todos, aquí un nuevo estudio que incluye nuevas muestras españolas de Granada y Huelva, el sur de Portugal y también 3 grupos Bereberes de Marruecos.
the file are genotyped, se pueden incluir en G25.

https://academic.oup.com/mbe/advance-article/doi/10.1093/molbev/msz288/5670533

Ruderico
12-11-2019, 05:51 PM
Ya he mandado PM a Davidski, lo más interesante para mi son las muestras del Sur de Portugal que aún no tenemos

Shadogowah
12-11-2019, 05:57 PM
Hola todos, aquí un nuevo estudio que incluye nuevas muestras españolas de Granada y Huelva, el sur de Portugal y también 3 grupos Bereberes de Marruecos.
the file are genotyped, se pueden incluir en G25.

https://academic.oup.com/mbe/advance-article/doi/10.1093/molbev/msz288/5670533

Thanks!!!

Endovelicus
12-11-2019, 06:10 PM
Hola todos, aquí un nuevo estudio que incluye nuevas muestras españolas de Granada y Huelva, el sur de Portugal y también 3 grupos Bereberes de Marruecos.
the file are genotyped, se pueden incluir en G25.

https://academic.oup.com/mbe/advance-article/doi/10.1093/molbev/msz288/5670533

Estoy particularmente interesado en las muestras del sur de Portugal.

Ruderico
12-11-2019, 06:22 PM
Estoy particularmente interesado en las muestras del sur de Portugal.

Assim a olhometro parecem ser idênticas às Portuguesas actuais do G25.
Os Galegos são os novos do G25, repara nos resultados (se não estou em erro usaram amostras do Norte de Marrocos):
https://i.postimg.cc/brts6w9g/novoestudo.png


Com o modelo da Idade do Ferro, usando amostras Guanches (idênticos aos Marroquinos do Norte):
[1] "distance%=0.7629"

Spanish_Galicia

Iberia_IA,66.4
Guanche,10
Germanic_IA,9.8
ITA_Rome_Imperial,8
Levant_Roman,5.8


[1] "distance%=0.9177"

Portuguese

Iberia_IA,63.8
Guanche,11.2
Germanic_IA,11
ITA_Rome_Imperial,8.8
Levant_Roman,5.2



Não parece haver diferença entre estes Portugueses do Sul e os disponíveis no G25. As referências deles para o Near East já não são iguais às minhas, mas o resultado virtualmente igual do Norte de África parece ser um sinal positivo para o modelo (e para o G25 no geral)

E_M81_I3A
12-11-2019, 06:48 PM
Ya he mandado PM a Davidski, lo más interesante para mi son las muestras del Sur de Portugal que aún no tenemos

In the study they mention another study about Canarians "Genomic Analyses of Human European Diversity at the Southwestern Edge: Isolation, African Influence and Disease Associations in the Canary Islands" from 2018:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6278859

with data from "416 individuals (34 from El Hierro, 35 from La Palma, 78 from La Gomera, 64 from Tenerife, 117 from Gran Canaria, 32 from Fuerteventura, and 56 from Lanzarote)" !

I asked David also if he could include them into G25

E_M81_I3A
12-12-2019, 08:18 AM
David have put the 416 Canarians here:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=17uYt-v4tBNj6maoA03RqDPkOOFx3LCwt

Ruderico
12-12-2019, 09:50 AM
Hola todos, aquí un nuevo estudio que incluye nuevas muestras españolas de Granada y Huelva, el sur de Portugal y también 3 grupos Bereberes de Marruecos.
the file are genotyped, se pueden incluir en G25.

https://academic.oup.com/mbe/advance-article/doi/10.1093/molbev/msz288/5670533

Is there a link to the genotype data anywhere? David is asking for it

Amhas
12-12-2019, 11:03 AM
Is there a link to the genotype data anywhere? David is asking for it

https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ega/studies/EGAS00001003901


The data can only be used by someone who got access, I don't know if David could do it.





David have put the 416 Canarians here:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=17uYt-v4tBNj6maoA03RqDPkOOFx3LCwt


Some individuals can reach 35% North African, but again part of it is Iberian derived.

Ruderico
12-12-2019, 11:07 AM
Thanks a lot, I'll send him the link. Lets hope he can access the files

Ruderico
12-12-2019, 01:19 PM
He dado una mirada a las muestras Canarias, son lo que ya se esperaba, con más de 400 muestras tienes un poco de todo. Voy a postar dos PCA plots con ellos, pero de futuro no las voy incluir, son demasiadas muestras.

https://i.postimg.cc/hv1sqvQB/canarias.png


https://i.postimg.cc/k4dWX9mX/canarias2.png

Amhas
12-12-2019, 02:31 PM
He dado una mirada a las muestras Canarias, son lo que ya se esperaba, con más de 400 muestras tienes un poco de todo. Voy a postar dos PCA plots con ellos, pero de futuro no las voy incluir, son demasiadas muestras.


A friend added few of them here.

https://i.imgur.com/Nu5USlW.png




EDIT: once oriental populations added the KEB leans toward them, while the Morisco didn't changed.

E_M81_I3A
12-12-2019, 06:58 PM
I just created a new thread for the Guillen-Guio et al. 2018 Canary islands study

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?19191-Canary-Islands-Guillen-Guio-et-al-2018-study

Empecinado
12-15-2019, 11:40 AM
Estoy empezando a usar R para G25 y tengo varias dudas, agradecería mucho que alguien fuese capaz de responderlas¨

-Cual es la diferencia entre el script n.Monte y el n.Monte3?

-Cual es la diferencia entre usar datos escalados o sin escalar?

-Cual es la diferencia entre usar R y Vahaduo?

-Qué es lo más recomendable en cuanto a mayor precisión de resultados para ibéricos?

Ruderico
12-18-2019, 01:00 PM
nMonte es un algoritmo más viejo que nMonte3, no vale a pena usarlo.

Datos no escalados son tus datos "reales" , los escalados son una version muy truncada. Nadie usa datos escalados an PCAs, solo aqui porqué David tambien los usa.

nMonte3 en R usa el metodo de Monte Carlo, Vahaduo no lo sé, pero és más rápido. Mi problema con Vahaduo es que los resultados parecen menos precisos, probablemente porqué és más rápido y hace menos ciclos.

Yo uso datos no escalados en nMonte3 con penalidad estandar, pero para ver muchos resultados uso Vahaduo solo por su velocidad

Empecinado
01-09-2020, 01:24 PM
Por curiosidad, cual es la prevalencia en Iberia de haplogrupos maternos y paternos de origen romano?

Ruderico
01-09-2020, 01:46 PM
No tengo ni idea. Existen muchos haplogrupos que pueden tener múltiplas orígenes, por ejemplo U152 puede ser Romano, Celtibero o Gaulés

sweuro
01-11-2020, 08:59 PM
Haciendo experimentos con PCA Vahaduo, se pueden identificar clusters (agrupaciones) ibéricos, como indico a continuación:

- Naranja: Oeste ibérico (Extremadura, Galicia, Portugal, Castilla-Leon y Andalucia). La región de Murcia es la excepción, a pesar de ser el Este ibérico, genéticamente es como si fuera del Oeste.

- Verde : Cataluña (Barcelones, Girona, Penedes, etc). Se encuentran a medio camino entre el cluster Oeste y el cluster Francés.

- Amarillo seria Norte de España, regiones circundantes con Vascongadas : Cantabria, Navarra, Rioja, SOria

- Rojo: Islas Baleares (Ibiza, Menorca, Mallorca, Baleares. YO Estoy incluido en este cluster).

- A medio camino entre los clusters Oeste y Cataluña, se encuentran Alicante, Valencia y La Mancha.

- A medias entre el cluter Norte y Cataluña , se encuentra Pirineos y Castellón. Tiene sentido que aparezca Pirineos, por geografía. Pero Castellón sorprende. Seguramente fue fuertemente repoblado por gentes proviniente del nordoeste de Cataluña, y/o de Aragón.

- Asturias queda aislado por arriba, debido a que tiene un componente norte-africano similar al cluster Oeste pero a la vez con un aporte Vascoide importante.


https://i.ibb.co/mRH54W4/IBERIA.png

Ruderico
01-11-2020, 09:29 PM
Bueno, un PCA plot depende siempre de las muestras presentes.

Huijbregts hay publicado un nuevo proyecto con los datos de G25, es un poco difícil para mi explicarlo, por lo tanto os dejo un link con su explicación.
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?19311-Clustering-the-sub-modern-European-G25-samples

Le pedi que plotara las referencias Ibéricas occidentales, tenéis aquí el resultado. Está más o menos de acuerdo con mi modelo simplificado (sin muestras levantinas)

[1] "distance%=0.7402"

Spanish_Extremadura

Iberia_IA,62.8
ITA_Rome_Imperial,18.4
North_African,10
Germanic_IA,8.8


[1] "distance%=0.7492"

Spanish_Andalucia

Iberia_IA,72.8
ITA_Rome_Imperial,15.4
North_African,7.4
Germanic_IA,4.4


[1] "distance%=0.6877"

Spanish_Galicia

Iberia_IA,65
ITA_Rome_Imperial,14.4
Germanic_IA,11.2
North_African,9.4


[1] "distance%=0.6457"

Spanish_Canarias

Iberia_IA,56.6
ITA_Rome_Imperial,19
North_African,16.8
Germanic_IA,7.6


[1] "distance%=0.8905"

Portuguese

Iberia_IA,63.2
ITA_Rome_Imperial,15
Germanic_IA,11.4
North_African,10.4


[1] "distance%=0.9863"

Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon

Iberia_IA,71.6
ITA_Rome_Imperial,13.6
North_African,9.2
Germanic_IA,5.6


[1] "distance%=1.8964"

Spanish_Asturias

Iberia_IA,77.8
North_African,9.6
ITA_Rome_Imperial,7.2
Germanic_IA,5.4

https://anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=35809&d=1578750470


Edit: Asturias no tiene aporte Vascoide, solo tiene un aporte mediterráneo pequeño

Empecinado
02-25-2020, 10:57 AM
@Ruderico acaba de salir un estudio con muchas muestras sardas, incluyendo punicos. Quizas es interesante para anhadir a los modelos para ibericos, al menos para Iberia oriental, teniendo en cuenta que hubo colonias punicas y fenicias.



Distance to: ITA_Sardinia_Punic (AVERAGE)
0.02763943 Spanish_Canarias
0.02806514 French_Corsica
0.02891215 Moroccan_Jew
0.02917463 Maltese
0.03010597 Sicilian_West
0.03015924 Italian_Jew
0.03042441 Tunisian_Jew
0.03054616 Libyan_Jew
0.03087424 Spanish_Extremadura
0.03096191 Spanish_Murcia
0.03128301 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.03143727 Italian_Lazio
0.03158399 Spanish_Andalucia
0.03192087 Sephardic_Jew
0.03207461 Portuguese
0.03238828 Spanish_Galicia
0.03254854 Italian_Campania
0.03257174 Italian_Umbria
0.03313248 Spanish_Pirineu
0.03316989 Sardinian
0.03324221 Italian_Abruzzo
0.03325124 Romaniote_Jew
0.03345543 Spanish_Valencia
0.03349975 Spanish_Menorca
0.03375505 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon

Distance to: ITA_Sardinia_Punic:VIL010
0.03506719 Moroccan_Jew
0.03605741 Tunisian_Jew
0.03629414 Italian_Jew
0.03635107 Libyan_Jew
0.03670845 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.03678673 Maltese
0.03820620 Romaniote_Jew
0.03909129 Spanish_Canarias
0.04008758 Sephardic_Jew
0.04044595 Italian_Campania
0.04077552 Italian_Lazio
0.04081964 Ashkenazi_Belarussia
0.04088868 Sicilian_West
0.04091769 French_Corsica
0.04134514 Italian_Umbria
0.04134860 Ashkenazi_Poland
0.04140372 Italian_Calabria
0.04178588 Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.04199977 Italian_Basilicata
0.04206741 Italian_Abruzzo
0.04226043 Ashkenazi_Russia
0.04250326 Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.04254743 Spanish_Extremadura
0.04303690 Italian_Apulia
0.04316732 Syrian_Jew

Distance to: ITA_Sardinia_Punic:VIL007
0.02983268 Italian_Jew
0.03045531 French_Corsica
0.03056253 Maltese
0.03083842 Sephardic_Jew
0.03113032 Tunisian_Jew
0.03117053 Sicilian_West
0.03212426 Spanish_Canarias
0.03218832 Italian_Lazio
0.03229532 Moroccan_Jew
0.03245203 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.03272714 Libyan_Jew
0.03299249 Italian_Campania
0.03349894 Italian_Abruzzo
0.03362205 Sicilian_East
0.03369234 Ashkenazi_Poland
0.03377551 Romaniote_Jew
0.03391198 Italian_Apulia
0.03397651 Italian_Calabria
0.03406861 Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.03409496 Italian_Lombardy
0.03443004 Spanish_Murcia
0.03444569 Spanish_Andalucia
0.03454158 Italian_Umbria
0.03460169 Italian_Bergamo
0.03482683 Spanish_Extremadura

Distance to: ITA_Sardinia_Punic:VIL006
0.03295623 Spanish_Canarias
0.03296343 Moroccan_Jew
0.03526917 Tunisian_Jew
0.03534974 Libyan_Jew
0.03628034 Algerian
0.03692105 Tunisian
0.03725172 Maltese
0.03744850 Spanish_Extremadura
0.03759666 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.03811532 Spanish_Murcia
0.03834596 Italian_Jew
0.03835530 Portuguese
0.03861860 Berber_Tunisia_Sen
0.03873293 Libyan
0.03874920 French_Corsica
0.03994611 Spanish_Galicia
0.04021054 Sephardic_Jew
0.04027107 Sicilian_West
0.04063412 Romaniote_Jew
0.04064524 Italian_Umbria
0.04067104 Moroccan_North
0.04072572 Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.04075595 Ashkenazi_Belarussia
0.04088756 Spanish_Andalucia
0.04091059 Ashkenazi_Russia




Distance to: ITA_Sardinia_Punic:VIL011
0.02735734 Moroccan_North
0.02812859 Algerian
0.02942047 Tunisian
0.03096087 Moroccan
0.03110799 Berber_Tunisia_Sen
0.03236263 Mozabite
0.03434976 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
0.03737509 Berber_MAR_ERR
0.03781109 Moroccan_South
0.03854980 Libyan
0.04142261 Moroccan_Jew
0.04188881 Saharawi
0.04499787 Libyan_Jew
0.04513231 Tunisian_Jew
0.04597079 Berber_MAR_TIZ
0.04654976 Berber_Algeria
0.04699472 Spanish_Canarias
0.05001748 Maltese
0.05129708 Italian_Jew
0.05160373 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.05214380 Egyptian
0.05236757 Sephardic_Jew
0.05324206 Spanish_Extremadura
0.05350454 Romaniote_Jew
0.05384655 Portuguese


Distance to: ITA_Sardinia_Punic:MSR002
0.02409178 Sicilian_West
0.02482523 Sephardic_Jew
0.02513212 Maltese
0.02543318 Sicilian_East
0.02557265 Italian_Jew
0.02627895 Tunisian_Jew
0.02639989 Libyan_Jew
0.02681038 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.02716901 Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.02719422 Romaniote_Jew
0.02726489 Ashkenazi_Poland
0.02736488 Italian_Campania
0.02751541 French_Corsica
0.02774064 Italian_Apulia
0.02782109 Italian_Lazio
0.02783449 Italian_Abruzzo
0.02788876 Italian_Calabria
0.02814938 Moroccan_Jew
0.02879162 Italian_Marche
0.02917157 Ashkenazi_Belarussia
0.02935674 Ashkenazi_Russia
0.02945612 Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.02963406 Italian_Basilicata
0.03001783 Italian_Lombardy
0.03042167 Italian_Umbria


Distance to: ITA_Sardinia_Punic:MSR003
0.02744606 Sicilian_West
0.02831566 French_Corsica
0.02893119 Italian_Lombardy
0.02964225 Italian_Lazio
0.03080236 Spanish_Andalucia
0.03083078 Italian_Bergamo
0.03097864 Spanish_Menorca
0.03128236 Sephardic_Jew
0.03129080 Sicilian_East
0.03156556 Italian_Marche
0.03156969 Italian_Piedmont
0.03180967 Italian_Abruzzo
0.03198700 Maltese
0.03199983 Italian_Apulia
0.03229496 Italian_Campania
0.03233779 Italian_Jew
0.03234898 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.03235489 Spanish_Eivissa
0.03259294 Italian_Molise
0.03265770 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
0.03267180 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.03269958 Italian_Umbria
0.03273671 Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.03274492 Spanish_Alacant
0.03276679 Spanish_Pirineu


Distance to: ITA_Sardinia_Punic:ORC002 (este es un outlier)
0.01906594 Sardinian
0.05278655 Spanish_La_Rioja
0.05324450 Basque_Spanish
0.05357643 French_Corsica
0.05385774 Basque_French
0.05400948 French_South
0.05420430 Spanish_Pirineu
0.05503238 Spanish_Menorca
0.05546438 Spanish_Cantabria
0.05594474 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.05596376 Spanish_Castello
0.05622340 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.05653376 Spanish_Andalucia
0.05655311 Spanish_Valencia
0.05658067 Spanish_Murcia
0.05668227 Spanish_Aragon
0.05668845 Spanish_Pais_Vasco
0.05727065 Spanish_Soria
0.05752381 Spanish_Alacant
0.05782448 Spanish_Baleares
0.05796280 Spanish_Navarra
0.05829313 Spanish_Barcelones
0.05832959 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.05836339 Spanish_Cataluna
0.05846533 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona

Ruderico
02-28-2020, 04:15 PM
Bueno puedo añadir unos hoy cuando llegar a casa, pero sí las muestras tienen aporte levantino o norte Africano el modelo en G25 no puede decirte con seguridad sí eso llegó con Cartagineses, Mauris o Sirios en el periodo Romano, o con Moros Islamicos.

También es importante saber sí las muestras son relevantes para nosotros en Ibéria, por ejemplo Morocco_LN resulta bien, pero no representa nada, es solo una referencia Europea (con mucho EEF) con um fuerte aporte norte Africano y un poco de levantino

El Prudente
03-13-2020, 10:38 PM
Ruderico usas Past para hacer los PCAs? si es así vaya paciencia que tienes

Ruderico
03-15-2020, 06:19 PM
Ruderico usas Past para hacer los PCAs? si es así vaya paciencia que tienes

Si, PAST4. Necesitó de un poquito de trabajo pero ya tengo las listas hechas, ahora es muy fácil, solo tengo de añadir las coordenadas de nuevos membros y ya está

mokordo
06-12-2020, 10:25 AM
Como siempre estamos con el recurrente debate de qué % de nuestro aporte NA es un aporte reciente o antiguo, aunque sé que no es determinante, se me ha ocurrido un método simplón para intentar discriminarlos.

Sería usar nuestras coordenadas , primero con estos dos samples:



Moroccan,-0.0853671,0.1302133,-0.0128221,-0.0708806,0.0211321,-0.03294,-0.0277833,0.0097687,0.0554032,0.0243993,0.0095087,-0.0090252,0.0269902,-0.0144658,0.0163016,-0.0061874,-0.0027669,-0.0170326,-0.0384216,0.0094351,-0.0098438,-0.0295119,0.0209111,-0.0011248,0.0059207
Basque,0.12997965,0.15121785,0.05672945,0.01091560 ,0.05699690,0.00131690,-0.00236310,0.00186655,0.03097855,0.04340165,-0.00690060,0.01097355,-0.02187710,-0.01639320,0.01558220,0.00089560,-0.00886335,0.00290045,-0.00126605,-0.00568710,0.00947355,0.00248615,-0.00776400,-0.00910345,0.00472095

Y luego con estos otros:


MAR_Taforalt,-0.189857,0.0814452,-0.0242866,-0.085595,0.027636,-0.0552202,-0.0705968,0.0184146,0.155397,0.003499,0.0209156,-0.0318316,0.0747168,-0.0513334,0.0711988,-0.0363032,0.0052676,-0.066106,-0.1424162,0.0389938,-0.0376836,-0.1255322,0.0730118,-0.0137606,0.0164534
Basque,0.12997965,0.15121785,0.05672945,0.01091560 ,0.05699690,0.00131690,-0.00236310,0.00186655,0.03097855,0.04340165,-0.00690060,0.01097355,-0.02187710,-0.01639320,0.01558220,0.00089560,-0.00886335,0.00290045,-0.00126605,-0.00568710,0.00947355,0.00248615,-0.00776400,-0.00910345,0.00472095

En distancias de 0.25X.

El % del Moroccan vendría a representar el total del aporte NA moderno+antiguo, y el MAR_TAFORALT el aporte antiguo del componente NA.

Así restando al % Moroccan el % MAR_TAFORALT nos daría el aporte moderno, y podríamos ver la proporción de uno u otro, en diferentes distancias, y calcular una media aproximada en ellas para tener una media general.

Por ejemplo:


Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 2.7839% / 0.02783920
92.6 Basque
7.4 Moroccan

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 2.9121% / 0.02912123 | ADC: 0.5x
95.8 Basque
4.2 Moroccan

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 2.7926% / 0.02792588 | ADC: 0.25x
93.4 Basque
6.6 Moroccan



Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 3.0099% / 0.03009887
96.6 Basque
3.4 MAR_Taforalt

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 3.1540% / 0.03154013 | ADC: 0.5x
98.6 Basque
1.4 MAR_Taforalt

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 3.0236% / 0.03023582 | ADC: 0.25x
97.2 Basque
2.8 MAR_Taforalt


DIST:NO=7.4 Moroccan-3.4 MAR_TAFORALT-----4 moderno/3.4 antiguo----54%moderno/46% antiguo
DIST:0.25X=6.6 Moroccan-2.8 MAR_TAFORALT-----3.8 moderno/2.8antiguo----57.7% moderno/42.3% antiguo
DIST:0.5X=4.2 Moroccan-1.4 MAR_TAFORALT-----2.8 moderno/ 1.4 antiguo---66.7% moderno/33.3% antiguo

La media sería 59.4% moderno y 40.6% antiguo.

Cosas que están mal?

Prácticamente todo, desde un sample muy moderno de Moroccan que tendrá bastante mezcla Ibérica, hasta usar un sample vasco como referente Ibérico, y unas cuantas cosas más.

Pero bueno, a día de hoy tampoco hay muchas mejores formas de separar aportes antiguos y modernos de un componente.

Otro método sería simplemente calcular proporciones observando la lista de distancias, pero este método es más entretenido, si os aburrís y os apetece jugar con números, es un buen entretenimiento, aunque no sirva para gran cosa.:)

Y como siempre, no es más que un juego.

JJJ
06-12-2020, 10:50 AM
Target: Juan_scaled
Distance: 4.3961% / 0.04396066 | ADC: 0.25x
93.2 Basque
6.8 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Juan_scaled
Distance: 3.6619% / 0.03661919 | ADC: 0.25x
85.0 Basque
15.0 Moroccan


15 - 6.8 = 8.2% de aporte moderno.

No sé si es util calcular con solo 2 referencias.

mokordo
06-12-2020, 11:58 AM
Target: Juan_scaled
Distance: 4.3961% / 0.04396066 | ADC: 0.25x
93.2 Basque
6.8 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Juan_scaled
Distance: 3.6619% / 0.03661919 | ADC: 0.25x
85.0 Basque
15.0 Moroccan


15 - 6.8 = 8.2% de aporte moderno.

No sé si es util calcular con solo 2 referencias.

ñiñiñi ñiñiñi No sé si es util calcular con solo 2 referencias.:P

Que tiquismiquis sóis siempre. Mira que lo dije claro:


Cosas que están mal?

Prácticamente todo, desde un sample muy moderno de Moroccan que tendrá bastante mezcla Ibérica, hasta usar un sample vasco como referente Ibérico, y unas cuantas cosas más.

Pero bueno, a día de hoy tampoco hay muchas mejores formas de separar aportes antiguos y modernos de un componente.

Otro método sería simplemente calcular proporciones observando la lista de distancias, pero este método es más entretenido, si os aburrís y os apetece jugar con números, es un buen entretenimiento, aunque no sirva para gran cosa.

Y como siempre, no es más que un juego.

No es más que una idea de base o una propuesta, si quieres mejórala.(Tocapelotas)

mokordo
06-12-2020, 12:02 PM
Target: Juan_scaled
Distance: 4.3961% / 0.04396066 | ADC: 0.25x
93.2 Basque
6.8 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Juan_scaled
Distance: 3.6619% / 0.03661919 | ADC: 0.25x
85.0 Basque
15.0 Moroccan


15 - 6.8 = 8.2% de aporte moderno.



8.2 moderno y 6.8 antiguo sería un 54.7% moderno y un 45.3 % antiguo, en 0.25X.

Faltaría hacer lo mismo con otras distancias y sacar la media.

Sé que es una mierda de método que en realidad está lleno de fallos y no discrimina nada realmente, pero es lo que hay.

JJJ
06-12-2020, 12:28 PM
8.2 moderno y 6.8 antiguo sería un 54.7% moderno y un 45.3 % antiguo, en 0.25X.

Faltaría hacer lo mismo con otras distancias y sacar la media.

Sé que es una mierda de método que en realidad está lleno de fallos y no discrimina nada realmente, pero es lo que hay.

Solo te dice cuánto de vasco eres comparado con una referencia con mezcla mediterránea y africana, de manera muy amplia. Sacas mejores distancias debido a que estás mucho más cerca de la muestra vasca.

mokordo
06-12-2020, 01:10 PM
Solo te dice cuánto de vasco eres comparado con una referencia con mezcla mediterránea y africana, de manera muy amplia. Sacas mejores distancias debido a que estás mucho más cerca de la muestra vasca.


No pretende decir cuánto es cada uno de vasco, solo usé ese sample, que es la media del Basque_french y el Basque_French como muestra "pura" del Ibérico, sé que tiene sus limitaciones y problemas derivado hacer esto, pero lo que digo, es solo una propuesta. No creo que ninguna de estas dos muestras tengan un NA reseñable, porque básicamente esa es la principal diferencia entre otras poblaciones peninsulares y la vasca nativa.

Probando con mis samples de Iberian_peninsula y demás, como suelen tener parte de NA incorporado, me sale 100% Ibérico y no me separa el NA, por eso lo hice así. No soy el único que hace esto, ya lo has visto tú también que otros hacen cosas similares.

Lo que decía de comparar distancias, no hace falta ni poner muestra vasca o ibérica, solo hacen falta la Moroccan y la MAR_Taforalt. Igual sería más fiable, pero es menos divertido. En este modelo la distancia del resultado es lo de menos, ni me he fijado en ellas.

alejandromb92
06-12-2020, 02:45 PM
Lo que han hecho ustedes 2 (Juan y Mokordo) ha sido una buenisima idea y buen experimento para calcular que posible % de norafricano o genetica compartida con el Maghreb tiene cualquier de nosotros, pero hay un problema...

El usar la referencia vasca para aislar toda una herencia iberica del resto de etnias, en mi opinion personal no va a ser exacto, porque los vascos, asi digamos que no, son algo diferentes a los españoles, por falta de Estepa y por un Agricultor y Cazador-Recolector muy alto en comparacion al resto de peninsulares.

Shadogowah
06-12-2020, 03:01 PM
Lo que han hecho ustedes 2 (Juan y Mokordo) ha sido una buenisima idea y buen experimento para calcular que posible % de norafricano o genetica compartida con el Maghreb tiene cualquier de nosotros, pero hay un problema...

El usar la referencia vasca para aislar toda una herencia iberica del resto de etnias, en mi opinion personal no va a ser exacto, porque los vascos, asi digamos que no, son algo diferentes a los españoles, por falta de Estepa y por un Agricultor y Cazador-Recolector muy alto en comparacion al resto de peninsulares.

Siempre se nos vende que son el paradigma del ibérico de la edad del hierro.

En vez de usar la referencia vasca, quizás podríais probar con una media de diversos Iberian_IA.

O qué pelotas. Una media de todo lo que haya previo a la invasión islámica y así metes lo que haya entrado con los romanos.

mokordo
06-12-2020, 04:44 PM
Lo que han hecho ustedes 2 (Juan y Mokordo) ha sido una buenisima idea y buen experimento para calcular que posible % de norafricano o genetica compartida con el Maghreb tiene cualquier de nosotros, pero hay un problema...

El usar la referencia vasca para aislar toda una herencia iberica del resto de etnias, en mi opinion personal no va a ser exacto, porque los vascos, asi digamos que no, son algo diferentes a los españoles, por falta de Estepa y por un Agricultor y Cazador-Recolector muy alto en comparacion al resto de peninsulares.

Cómo que ustedes? Si he sido yo!!! el triple J solo critica mi gran idea.B)

Ahora en serio, no sirve de mucho, básicamente nos va a salir a todos la misma proporción, no sirve para discriminar nada aparte de la proporción de Mar_Taforalt en la media de todos los individual samples marroquíes modrnos que es lo que es el Moroccan del datasheet del average pop.

Los tres que lo hemos hecho sacamos una proporción semejante de alrededor de un 55% moderno y un 45% antiguo, y creo que se debe a eso, a que solo muestra lo que comento. Algo así solo se podría saber comparando SNP´s que se relacionen con unos u otros directamente, algo que nosotros no podemos hacer y que igual nadie puede ahora mismo.

sweuro
06-12-2020, 05:20 PM
Si se quiere hacer una composición usando Vascos, habría que añadir una tercera fuente que son el aporte Este mediterráneo (básicamente aporte Romano) , a modo de ejemplo:

Target: Spanish_Valencia
Distance: 1.4641% / 0.01464082
77.0 Basque_Spanish
21.2 ITA_Rome_Imperial
1.8 MAR_Taforalt


E incluso mejora más si añade un aporte extra del norte de Europa:

Target: Spanish_Valencia
Distance: 0.9306% / 0.00930643
62.4 Basque_Spanish
18.8 ITA_Rome_Imperial
16.6 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria
2.2 MAR_Taforalt

mokordo
06-12-2020, 05:37 PM
Si se quiere hacer una composición usando Vascos, habría que añadir una tercera fuente que son el aporte Este mediterráneo (básicamente aporte Romano) , a modo de ejemplo:

Target: Spanish_Valencia
Distance: 1.4641% / 0.01464082
77.0 Basque_Spanish
21.2 ITA_Rome_Imperial
1.8 MAR_Taforalt


E incluso mejora más si añade un aporte extra del norte de Europa:

Target: Spanish_Valencia
Distance: 0.9306% / 0.00930643
62.4 Basque_Spanish
18.8 ITA_Rome_Imperial
16.6 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria
2.2 MAR_Taforalt

Si nos pones todos los samples de las sources que usas, nos ahorrarás el trabajo de tener que buscarlas nosotros mismos.

De todas formas, no se trata de ver que % NA sale, si no de buscar una forma de discriminar aportes antiguos y modernos. Tampoco de buscar distancias buenas o ver lo vascos que somos.

mokordo
06-12-2020, 05:43 PM
Pongo las sources que utilizaste, y mis resultados con ellas.


Basque_Spanish,0.1319083,0.1504111,0.0582862,0.009 0081,0.0575834,0.0001239,-0.0033162,0.0004102,0.0313603,0.0455997,-0.0045288,0.0116063,-0.0227781,-0.0187627,0.0179452,0.0037271,-0.0058094,0.0027731,-0.0018156,-6.96e-05,0.0087901,0.0024868,-0.0068883,-0.0090371,0.0022619
ITA_Rome_Imperial,0.1039821,0.1495156,-0.0235307,-0.0574065,0.0045265,-0.0204055,-0.0011946,-0.0051488,0.0006604,0.0196549,0.0034575,0.0025539,-0.0040602,-0.0014737,-0.0081715,-0.0014474,0.0035992,0.000454,0.0012178,-0.0032854,-0.0025579,0.0020454,-0.0006985,-0.0004845,0.0004141
MAR_Taforalt,-0.189857,0.0814452,-0.0242866,-0.085595,0.027636,-0.0552202,-0.0705968,0.0184146,0.155397,0.003499,0.0209156,-0.0318316,0.0747168,-0.0513334,0.0711988,-0.0363032,0.0052676,-0.066106,-0.1424162,0.0389938,-0.0376836,-0.1255322,0.0730118,-0.0137606,0.0164534
Bell_Beaker_Bavaria,0.1271445,0.1324326,0.052713,0 .0416909,0.0331913,0.0126844,0.0009922,0.0016324,0 .0044465,0.0071138,-0.0007698,0.0066884,-0.0102576,-0.0124217,0.0121041,0.0082649,0.0028733,0.0016705, 0.002514,0.0048264,0.0046076,0.002125,-0.001164,0.0008301,-0.001539

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 1.7450% / 0.01745001
65.2 Basque_Spanish
17.8 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria
15.2 ITA_Rome_Imperial
1.8 MAR_Taforalt

mokordo
06-12-2020, 05:59 PM
Y si le cambio Bell_Beaker_Bavaria por un Che_IA y le añado un sample Ibérico antiguo:


Basque_Spanish,0.1319083,0.1504111,0.0582862,0.009 0081,0.0575834,0.0001239,-0.0033162,0.0004102,0.0313603,0.0455997,-0.0045288,0.0116063,-0.0227781,-0.0187627,0.0179452,0.0037271,-0.0058094,0.0027731,-0.0018156,-6.96e-05,0.0087901,0.0024868,-0.0068883,-0.0090371,0.0022619
MAR_Taforalt,-0.189857,0.0814452,-0.0242866,-0.085595,0.027636,-0.0552202,-0.0705968,0.0184146,0.155397,0.003499,0.0209156,-0.0318316,0.0747168,-0.0513334,0.0711988,-0.0363032,0.0052676,-0.066106,-0.1424162,0.0389938,-0.0376836,-0.1255322,0.0730118,-0.0137606,0.0164534
ITA_Rome_Imperial,0.1039821,0.1495156,-0.0235307,-0.0574065,0.0045265,-0.0204055,-0.0011946,-0.0051488,0.0006604,0.0196549,0.0034575,0.0025539,-0.0040602,-0.0014737,-0.0081715,-0.0014474,0.0035992,0.000454,0.0012178,-0.0032854,-0.0025579,0.0020454,-0.0006985,-0.0004845,0.0004141
Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES,0.118376,0.1457285,0.0446885,0.013566,0.044 6235,-0.000139,0.0005875,0.007615,0.024441,0.0266065,-0.0080385,0.008917,-0.0064665,-0.006675,0.012079,0.002055,-0.008279,0.004371,-0.000754,0.0027515,-0.0004995,-0.0009275,-0.0056695,0.00241,-0.0022755
CHE_IA,0.125205,0.153345,0.050534,-0.003876,0.049548,-0.005578,0.0047,-0.002077,0.014726,0.033896,0.001786,0.016335,-0.016353,-0.008945,0.001764,-0.001591,0.009518,0.001647,0.002514,-0.006128,0.005241,0.005688,-0.012078,-0.004338,0.000958


Me mejoran bastante las distancias:

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 1.3033% / 0.01303329
46.6 Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES
32.6 Basque_Spanish
13.0 CHE_IA
6.6 ITA_Rome_Imperial
1.2 MAR_Taforalt

Y solo con estos tres:


MAR_Taforalt,-0.189857,0.0814452,-0.0242866,-0.085595,0.027636,-0.0552202,-0.0705968,0.0184146,0.155397,0.003499,0.0209156,-0.0318316,0.0747168,-0.0513334,0.0711988,-0.0363032,0.0052676,-0.066106,-0.1424162,0.0389938,-0.0376836,-0.1255322,0.0730118,-0.0137606,0.0164534
Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES,0.118376,0.1457285,0.0446885,0.013566,0.044 6235,-0.000139,0.0005875,0.007615,0.024441,0.0266065,-0.0080385,0.008917,-0.0064665,-0.006675,0.012079,0.002055,-0.008279,0.004371,-0.000754,0.0027515,-0.0004995,-0.0009275,-0.0056695,0.00241,-0.0022755
CHE_IA,0.125205,0.153345,0.050534,-0.003876,0.049548,-0.005578,0.0047,-0.002077,0.014726,0.033896,0.001786,0.016335,-0.016353,-0.008945,0.001764,-0.001591,0.009518,0.001647,0.002514,-0.006128,0.005241,0.005688,-0.012078,-0.004338,0.000958


Sigo teniendo unas distancias aceptables:

arget: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 1.6105% / 0.01610547
62.2 Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES
36.4 CHE_IA
1.4 MAR_Taforalt

Pero no era eso lo que buscaba.

Edit:me refiero a distancias, aunque puede servir también de alguna forma a mi primera intención, ahora que lo veo.:)

mokordo
06-12-2020, 06:03 PM
Osea, lo mismo que antes pero comparando varios resultados con diferentes samples...

JJJ
06-12-2020, 06:50 PM
Target: Juan_scaled
Distance: 3.5563% / 0.03556308
51.8 Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES
42.2 CHE_IA
6.0 MAR_Taforalt

Aben Aboo
01-25-2021, 06:50 PM
Hello,
My results with your model:
Mycenaean,0.009475,0.0154,-0.00215,-0.020025,0.00705,-0.009725,-0.000225,-0.000925,0.00265,0.025975,0.0034,0.0113,-0.0086,-0.00045,-0.012075,-0.0074,0.016125,0.00285,0.0098,-0.003175,-0.0047,0.00015,-0.00535,0.00095,-6e-04
Iberia_BA,0.0112,0.01525,0.0144,-2e-04,0.022,0.0013,-0.00095,8e-04,0.0194,0.0301,-9e-04,0.00475,-0.0142,-0.0176,0.00645,0.00135,-0.00045,0.00235,0.00155,0.0027,0.00485,-0.00075,-0.00725,-0.01265,0.00885
Hallstatt_Celt:DA111,0.0109,0.0149,0.0168,0.0081,0 .0142,0.0021,0.0005,0.001,0.0102,0.0134,-0.0076,0.0001,-0.0112,-0.0023,0.0108,-0.0072,-0.014,0.003,0.0047,0.0013,0.0079,0.0049,-0.0036,-0.0049,-0.0044
Nordic_BA,0.0103,0.0136667,0.0177333,0.0172333,0.0 098,0.0085333,0.0049667,0.0007667,-0.0004667,-0.0020667,-0.0015333,0.0024667,-0.0038667,-0.0101333,0.0104333,0.0083333,0.0082667,0.0033667, 0.0052,0.0022667,0.0091667,-0.0039667,0.0022,-0.0017333,-0.0062333
Armenia_MBA,0.0091,0.01205,-0.0084,-0.0041,-0.0114,-0.001,0.0014,-0.00285,-0.0262,-0.01035,0.00255,0,-0.00515,0.00125,0.01025,-2e-04,0.00065,-0.0029,0.00045,-1e-04,0.00435,0.00105,0.0044,-0.00065,8e-04
North_African,-0.00346,0.01294,-0.00062,-0.02128,0.01096,-0.01304,-0.01276,0.00358,0.03466,0.01676,0.00466,-0.004,0.01228,-0.01286,0.0171,-0.00984,0.00244,-0.01516,-0.03526,0.00832,-0.0108,-0.0305,0.01888,-0.00098,0.00386
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,0.00714,0.01446,-0.01626,-0.03032,-0.00342,-0.01396,-0.00204,-0.00286,0.0056,0.00558,0.00646,-0.00652,0.01452,0.004,-0.00558,0.00492,-0.00012,-0.00094,0.0012,0.0034,0.00342,0.0061,-0.00102,0.00132,-0.00042
Yoruba,-0.0553545,0.0061545,0.0058636,0.0051727,0.0001636, 0.0044727,-0.0189,0.0207,-0.0239,0.0179818,0.0028455,0.0005273,0.0155091,0.0 006909,0.0092273,-0.0072455,0.0054273,0.0003545,0.0047909,-0.0023909,0.0012455,0.0018727,-0.0014273,-0.0003909,-0.0003545


Target: AbenAboo
Distance: 1.3301% / 0.01330051
57.6 Hallstatt_Celt
20.0 North_African
11.6 Armenia_MBA
5.0 Iberia_BA
5.0 Mycenaean
0.8 Yoruba

mokordo
01-25-2021, 11:09 PM
Ultimate Iberian Calculator.(For everybody but focused in Iberian ancestry)

Recommended 0.25X

Un pequeño poupourri de referencias usadas de varios modelos y calculadores, he estado a punto de mezclar TODAS las referencias que tengo, pero podrían explotar vuestros PCs:nod:


Iberian_Peninsula:SouthWest1,0.0947128,0.1458888,0 .0329882,-0.0081685,0.0415461,-0.0060402,-0.0042116,0.0017368,0.0281598,0.0301074,-0.0013248,0.0062668,-0.010191,-0.0125129,0.0106327,-0.0023483,-0.0044572,-0.0022938,-0.0075518,-0.0005726,0.0017666,-0.0038658,-0.0001654,-0.0043759,0.0017931
Iberian_Peninsula:SouthWest2,0.1066143,0.1480178,0 .0343842,-0.0023092,0.0430928,-0.0043227,-0.0029623,0.0008298,0.0246971,0.0311927,-0.0017266,0.0061589,-0.011906,-0.0118282,0.0088992,0.0000546,-0.0042616,-0.0021971,-0.0053356,-0.0008578,0.0025252,-0.0030208,-0.0017253,-0.0040524,0.0016609
Iberian_Peninsula:SouthWest3,0.1103136,0.1489866,0 .0367065,-0.0022072,0.0415074,-0.0037999,-0.0028494,0.0003653,0.024662,0.0325823,-0.0017051,0.0068687,-0.0129399,-0.012317,0.008918,0.0007736,-0.0041886,-0.001742,-0.0032682,-0.0001355,0.0037902,-0.0016282,-0.0012632,-0.0033287,0.0001798
Iberian_Peninsula:SouthWest4,0.107153,0.1453437,0. 0358575,-0.0039328,0.0436962,-0.0049531,-0.0028354,0.0027098,0.0251567,0.0304517,-0.0014439,0.0073469,-0.0129723,-0.0113357,0.0114001,-0.0014481,-0.0036539,-0.0009936,-0.0050112,-0.0011889,0.0020335,-0.0019368,-0.0003352,-0.003233,0.0008896
Iberian_Peninsula:SouthWest5,0.0937339,0.1451566,0 .0331382,-0.0086673,0.039987,-0.0051366,-0.0051174,0.0017868,0.0286013,0.0293967,-0.0006149,0.0063413,-0.0099561,-0.0124403,0.0117895,-0.001298,-0.0019349,-0.0021871,-0.0083026,0.0003711,0.000871,-0.004501,0.0014714,-0.0022755,0.0007982
Iberian_Peninsula:CenterWest1,0.1069632,0.1442391, 0.0382424,-0.0032925,0.0429699,-0.0010951,-0.0027323,0.0036874,0.0270135,0.0294797,-0.0015309,0.0076322,-0.0124142,-0.0116411,0.0124084,-0.0034694,-0.0039557,-0.0013091,-0.0051435,-0.001269,0.0007145,-0.0017394,0.0013081,-0.0018515,-0.0014297
Iberian_Peninsula:Center1,0.1116414,0.1459401,0.04 04147,-0.0026917,0.0429436,-0.0014759,-0.0017136,0.0031729,0.0265369,0.0315799,-0.0022193,0.0082675,-0.013683,-0.0122025,0.0112705,-0.0038008,-0.006405,-0.0009607,-0.0023254,-0.0014904,0.002875,0.0002885,0.0001335,-0.0032282,-0.0019159
Iberian_Peninsula:Center2,0.1147717,0.1480979,0.04 36202,-0.0052757,0.0488294,-0.0043694,-0.0018017,0.0034615,0.0280199,0.0340172,-0.0038434,0.006769,-0.014519,-0.013441,0.009455,0.003558,0.0018907,-0.0020692,-0.0025765,-0.0008964,0.006634,0.0007212,-0.0004517,-0.0059847,-0.000958
Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest1,0.1074692,0.1455367,0 .0385359,-0.0030413,0.0416707,-0.0020712,-0.0045992,0.0025915,0.0251558,0.0298848,-0.0014316,0.006579,-0.0126743,-0.0117099,0.0118505,0.0000958,-0.0026846,-0.0015238,-0.0054019,-0.0006264,0.0010057,-0.0027355,0.0002468,-0.0024072,0.0005993
Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest2,0.1082583,0.1451643,0 .0407708,-0.0019021,0.0425035,0.0008832,-0.0035903,0.0035191,0.026571,0.0296234,-0.0022284,0.0067898,-0.0123512,-0.0120879,0.0117021,-0.0029759,-0.0055086,-0.001946,-0.0047834,-0.0016502,0.0005822,-0.0019029,0.0002534,-0.0031261,-0.0007251
Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest3,0.1095862,0.1453335,0 .0433481,-0.0005025,0.0464532,-0.003672,-0.0063711,0.0046731,0.0253442,0.0306868,-0.0026886,0.0069148,-0.0158202,-0.0106199,0.0127651,-0.0064014,-0.0100723,-0.0004469,-0.0052234,-0.0009413,0.0038682,-0.004479,-0.001205,-0.0011784,0.0038849
Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest4,0.114961,0.1458975,0. 0450032,0.0032839,0.04924,-0.0066004,-0.0039167,0.004423,0.0247817,0.0330457,-0.0044387,0.0083677,-0.0188305,-0.0129824,0.0117395,-0.0058785,-0.0097137,0.0012669,-0.0054049,-0.0028345,0.004825,-0.0026585,-0.0037794,-0.0002212,0.0035722
Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest5,0.1090802,0.1440359,0 .0430547,-0.0007537,0.0477524,-0.0026959,-0.0045042,0.005769,0.0272019,0.0302817,-0.0027879,0.007968,-0.01556,-0.010551,0.013323,-0.0099665,-0.0113434,-0.0002322,-0.004965,-0.0015839,0.003577,-0.0034829,-0.0001437,-0.0006227,0.001856
Iberian_Peninsula:A,0.1072213,0.1440698,0.0360527,-0.0049311,0.0435568,-0.0050758,-0.0039167,0.0030151,0.0254836,0.0298017,-0.0009959,0.0085925,-0.0144102,-0.0117989,0.0143593,-0.0000442,0.0006173,-0.0007265,-0.0059916,0.0015091,0.0014307,-0.0018877,0.0016269,-0.0005382,-0.0003272
Iberian_Peninsula:E,0.1046033,0.1454238,0.0359396,-0.0036822,0.0400073,-0.0025099,-0.0034780,0.0023767,0.0257700,0.0296499,-0.0003411,0.0056649,-0.0102279,-0.0104594,0.0098531,-0.0009281,-0.0037550,-0.0011275,-0.0054177,-0.0028765,0.0006987,-0.0035983,0.0008134,-0.0020243,0.0002275
Iberian_Peninsula:NorthEast1,0.1170481,0.1463632,0 .0436362,0.0010229,0.0470216,-0.0000698,-0.0012827,0.0026632,0.0236311,0.0336987,-0.0020233,0.0094479,-0.0168298,-0.0117381,0.0108126,-0.0005968,-0.0027056,-0.0012194,-0.0016811,0.0000209,0.0048299,-0.0028181,-0.0025368,-0.0014913,0.0003591
Iberian_Peninsula:NorthEast3,0.1136333,0.1451784,0 .0409332,-0.0012382,0.0453288,0.0008599,-0.001126,0.0037785,0.0266648,0.0330607,-0.0022398,0.0090733,-0.0148723,-0.0124263,0.0125089,-0.0046628,-0.0057695,-0.0012616,-0.0033781,-0.0006461,0.0018768,-0.000407,0.000072,-0.0018124,-0.0014968
Iberian_Peninsula:CenterEast1,0.1170479,0.1457708, 0.0407289,-0.0018438,0.043598,-0.0018361,-0.0012729,0.002048,0.0211939,0.0312687,-0.0037756,0.0081366,-0.0139372,-0.0124777,0.0067691,0.0007015,-0.0013473,-0.0003326,-0.0000524,-0.0026471,0.0030573,-0.0003763,-0.0004056,-0.0024097,-0.0010277
Iberian_Peninsula:CenterEast2,0.1153407,0.1465748, 0.0432432,-0.0002153,0.043957,-0.0011157,-0.0012925,0.0024228,0.0207933,0.0298868,-0.0032209,0.0082677,-0.0155105,-0.011629,0.0064017,0.0019224,0.0006737,-0.0002957,0.0000002,-0.0026679,0.0033692,-0.0025555,-0.001335,-0.0008032,-0.0015767
Iberian_Peninsula:CenterEast3,0.1162893,0.1454323, 0.0433691,0.0007403,0.0468293,-0.0007204,-0.0020171,0.0020095,0.0227619,0.0318762,-0.0024495,0.0084612,-0.0144327,-0.0114914,0.0092348,0.0003702,-0.0026729,-0.001684,-0.0011835,-0.0009379,0.0058854,-0.0035498,-0.0029733,-0.0035346,0.0015067
Iberian_Peninsula:CenterEast4,0.1175224,0.1472518, 0.0408705,-0.0017765,0.0444697,-0.0024753,-0.0011163,0.0023364,0.0247729,0.0354223,-0.0021313,0.0094978,-0.0164643,-0.0126098,0.0115194,-0.0019225,-0.0053947,-0.0004909,-0.0011785,0.0001563,0.0044608,0.0007883,-0.0011093,-0.0024703,-0.0006587
Iberian_Peninsula:CenterSouth,0.1118312,0.1470447, 0.0380297,-0.003332,0.0436699,-0.0053339,-0.0018167,0.0021953,0.0246801,0.032552,-0.0021323,0.0079822,-0.0142411,-0.0118972,0.0102622,-0.0017795,-0.0061032,-0.0006451,-0.0021931,-0.0014103,0.0041941,0.0000911,-0.0015098,-0.0046097,0.0004033
Iberian_Peninsula:SouthEast2,0.1087009,0.144506,0. 036804,-0.004624,0.0453626,-0.0039743,-0.0034617,-0.0003431,0.024987,0.0316862,-0.0027819,0.005341,-0.0127916,-0.0111059,0.0074797,-0.001962,-0.0025829,-0.0001224,-0.0021616,-0.000566,0.0039757,-0.0021192,-0.001325,-0.0041728,0.0019301
Iberian_Peninsula:SouthEast3,0.1136333,0.1437822,0 .0393777,-0.0033511,0.04597,-0.0017663,-0.0034957,-0.0008557,0.0242106,0.0327341,-0.0032071,0.0058698,-0.0126177,-0.0115718,0.0071591,-0.0011381,-0.0018417,-0.0004327,-0.0006494,0.0000417,0.0052979,-0.0021537,-0.0013609,-0.0040767,0.0020158
Iberian_Peninsula:SouthEast4,0.1124003,0.1454748,0 .0391263,-0.004522,0.0437772,-0.0034514,-0.0033488,-0.0008076,0.0249519,0.0330758,-0.0027604,0.0060508,-0.0138255,-0.0115948,0.0074985,-0.001243,-0.0025099,0.0003328,-0.0000943,0.0001563,0.0052406,-0.0007266,-0.0008629,-0.0034491,0.000449
Iberian_Peninsula:North1,0.1206526,0.1494095,0.044 076,-0.0043605,0.0503554,-0.0053688,-0.0012044,0.002625,0.0262559,0.0378595,-0.0037554,0.0079993,-0.0173003,-0.0138483,0.0097039,0.0054363,0.0029009,-0.0015994,-0.0014296,0.0007503,0.0082198,0.0012209,-0.0016944,-0.0052268,0.0002993
Iberian_Peninsula:North2,0.1206527,0.1492827,0.045 506,-0.0045759,0.0512915,-0.0059032,-0.0025459,0.0004234,0.0262815,0.0387555,-0.0051694,0.0085924,-0.0161049,-0.0159414,0.0111517,0.0082429,0.0009127,-0.0006547,-0.00155,-0.0010214,0.0088177,0.0024522,-0.0045804,-0.0046794,0.0027942
Iberian_Peninsula:North3,0.125016,0.1519907,0.0515 397,-0.0001615,0.052984,-0.0040904,-0.0008225,0.0026155,0.0276789,0.0393325,-0.0056297,0.0075184,-0.0190035,-0.013464,0.0125314,0.005591,-0.0008912,0.0002322,0.0007964,-0.0030434,0.0103567,-0.0000415,-0.004375,-0.0080735,0.002255
Iberian_Peninsula:North4,0.1238777,0.1489443,0.050 2827,0.0036607,0.0504195,0.0006045,-0.0014884,0.0007309,0.0263494,0.039272,-0.00544,0.0104157,-0.0181614,-0.0145424,0.017033,0.0001769,-0.0105395,0.0019845,-0.0001257,-0.0045647,0.0061973,0.0000617,-0.0067374,-0.0033539,0.0042112
Iberian_Peninsula:North5,0.1179967,0.1477595,0.048 3968,0.0029609,0.0479574,0.0021383,-0.0007442,0.003769,0.0280877,0.0345337,-0.004114,0.0085924,-0.0165755,-0.012042,0.0153364,-0.004508,-0.0095615,0.00057,-0.0011522,-0.0044397,0.0040137,-0.0016694,-0.0026087,-0.0046592,0.000459
Iberian_Peninsula:North6,0.1238775,0.1496212,0.050 3453,0.0069984,0.049445,-0.0017662,-0.0001567,0.002423,0.0256675,0.0372977,-0.0057648,0.008992,-0.019846,-0.0144734,0.0137529,-0.00042,-0.0079318,0.002069,-0.001592,-0.0056904,0.0052617,-0.000845,-0.0062444,-0.0042577,0.0021752
Iberian_Peninsula:North7,0.1136332,0.1457284,0.042 4258,0.0018842,0.0452904,-0.0020452,-0.0011358,0.003269,0.0260085,0.0319823,-0.0039785,0.0082427,-0.0153615,-0.0144504,0.0106765,-0.002453,-0.00515,-0.0002323,-0.0049649,-0.0035434,0.001539,-0.0000824,-0.002321,-0.0021688,-0.0010379
Iberian_Peninsula:Center,0.11164140,0.14594010,0.0 4041465,-0.00269165,0.04294360,-0.00147585,-0.00171355,0.00317290,0.02653685,0.03157990,-0.00221925,0.00826750,-0.01368300,-0.01220250,0.01127050,-0.00380075,-0.00640495,-0.00096065,-0.00232535,-0.00149035,0.00287500,0.00028850,0.00013350,-0.00322815,-0.00191590
Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest_Iberia,0.10746950,0.14 553650,0.03853550,-0.00304150,0.04167050,-0.00207100,-0.00459900,0.00259150,0.02515550,0.02988500,-0.00143150,0.00657900,-0.01267400,-0.01171000,0.01185050,0.00009550,-0.00268450,-0.00152400,-0.00540200,-0.00062600,0.00100550,-0.00273550,0.00024650,-0.00240750,0.00059950
Iberian_Peninsula:North_Iberia,0.12242300,0.148492 67,0.04831367,0.00441433,0.04920567,-0.00158033,-0.00117500,0.00112833,0.02542900,0.03776333,-0.00550333,0.00982467,-0.01831833,-0.01532200,0.01438633,0.00066300,-0.00819967,0.00174567,-0.00188533,-0.00464133,0.00506033,0.00028867,-0.00647733,-0.00282500,0.00303367
Iberian_PeninsulaIberian:NorthEast_Iberia,0.116289 50,0.14543250,0.04336900,0.00072050,0.04682900,-0.00072050,-0.00201750,0.00200900,0.02276150,0.03187600,-0.00244950,0.00846100,-0.01443250,-0.01149150,0.00923450,0.00037000,-0.00267300,-0.00168400,-0.00118350,-0.00093800,0.00588550,-0.00354950,-0.00297350,-0.00353450,0.00150700
Iberian_PeninsulaIberian:SouthWest_Iberia,0.106467 33,0.14688233,0.03492500,-0.00301667,0.04277467,-0.00423167,-0.00322200,0.00147333,0.02499733,0.03070867,-0.00139567,0.00657967,-0.01218267,-0.01163967,0.01011833,-0.00009600,-0.00321833,-0.00176033,-0.00547800,-0.00065367,0.00206267,-0.00287133,-0.00071667,-0.00307933,0.00107233
Iberian_Peninsula:SouthEast_Iberia,0.11097733,0.14 567500,0.03798667,-0.00415933,0.04427033,-0.00425333,-0.00287600,0.00034833,0.02487300,0.03243767,-0.00255833,0.00645767,-0.01361933,-0.01153233,0.00841333,-0.00166133,-0.00373200,-0.00014500,-0.00148333,-0.00060700,0.00447000,-0.00091833,-0.00123267,-0.00407733,0.00092767
Iberian_Peninsula:North_BC,0.1320348,0.1515168,0.0 558892,0.0105298,0.0564412,0.0001114,-0.000611,0.001892,0.0296968,0.0435908,-0.0098732,0.0095016,-0.0205746,-0.0157716,0.0164766,0.0029964,-0.0075364,0.0035476,-0.002363,-0.0047022,0.0114298,0.0021268,-0.008997,-0.0093022,0.0010298
Berber:n7,-0.05386443,0.13448546,-0.00934256,-0.07596989,0.02513761,-0.03430853,-0.02823581,0.0071875,0.06447191,0.02839774,0.00649 851,-0.00760977,0.0223002,-0.01514833,0.01552203,-0.01224471,-0.00229253,-0.0202083,-0.04156531,0.00950406,-0.01390176,-0.03600231,0.02360911,-0.00271777,0.00473974
Arabian,0.05059585,0.13995270,-0.06513990,-0.11723870,-0.00940130,-0.04997380,-0.01229238,-0.00808298,0.05608075,-0.00410653,0.01556333,-0.03192903,0.06243548,0.00350273,0.00455410,0.0252 5745,-0.02140830,0.00386218,0.00015448,0.02687405,0.0126 3658,0.01614353,-0.00905183,0.00697205,-0.00832413
Baltic:Lithuanian+Estonian+Latvian,0.13452148,0.12 062239,0.08690013,0.08467086,0.04324176,0.03159824 ,0.0115997,0.01480449,-0.00163362,-0.03234143,-0.00249161,-0.01265707,0.02141043,0.02735196,-0.00952909,0.00204703,0.00200312,-0.00109701,0.00194781,0.00313233,-0.00184769,-0.00433336,0.00725102,-0.00543653,0.00193011
Irish:Irish+Ireland,0.1333156,0.133302,0.0612522,0 .0494899,0.03722405,0.01981505,0.003592715,0.00465 054,0.004015315,0.003132795,-0.006798435,0.006078655,-0.01399805,-0.0142284,0.02653675,0.005617805,-0.01122035,0.001576174,0.000440942,0.002223565,0.0 05053135,0.00133376,0.00095749,0.0140395,0.0002452 81
English:English+English_Cornwall,0.13102565,0.1383 9775,0.06157145,0.04359780,0.04056560,0.01657980,0 .00420955,0.00606750,0.00587280,0.00632250,-0.00470165,0.00604745,-0.01316735,-0.01029915,0.02068505,0.00336205,-0.01144795,0.00310430,0.00372315,0.00310190,0.0053 7285,0.00363740,-0.00201385,0.01408045,0.00036125
French:Cluster(A+B+C+D),0.1277379,0.1443788,0.0516 499,0.0220623,0.0441839,0.0081762,0.001742,0.00388 36,0.0173982,0.022762,-0.0051918,0.0069986,-0.0153028,-0.0111361,0.0157499,-0.0007448,-0.0078411,0.0025871,0.0010925,-0.0002574,0.0037564,0.002014,-0.0019068,0.0046416,0.0009724
Chinese,0.02574093,-0.44672400,0.00416373,-0.06463350,0.05351190,0.02476773,0.00551737,0.0020 7600,-0.01316077,0.00126697,-0.07530797,-0.01189107,0.01126457,-0.00655843,-0.00550930,0.00257083,0.00261210,0.00151403,0.0006 5540,-0.00996537,0.01280200,0.00725607,0.01069883,-0.00123393,-0.00250313
German:B,0.12850750,0.13434200,0.05953750,0.042428 00,0.04023600,0.01613500,0.00530550,0.00693350,0.0 0355100,0.00110350,-0.00542900,0.00348000,-0.00703950,-0.00569200,0.01297850,0.00431800,-0.00574350,0.00146500,0.00381850,0.00226650,0.0039 1550,0.00243600,0.00017000,0.01182950,-0.00010750
Greek,0.11140840,0.14591180,-0.00812253,-0.04104343,0.00871315,-0.01319430,0.00090083,-0.00172838,-0.00075845,0.01704973,0.00310060,0.00279748,-0.00398438,0.00354085,-0.00934730,-0.00112803,0.00415830,0.00021075,0.00356465,-0.00389083,-0.00505928,0.00134385,0.00106483,0.00079573,-0.00272183
India,0.05425723,-0.05224190,-0.14531813,0.10516810,-0.07525927,0.06000990,0.00056697,0.01146813,0.0299 5450,0.01783713,-0.00570163,-0.00016823,-0.00002613,0.00110113,0.00060693,-0.00117137,-0.00384817,0.00066970,0.00074737,-0.00379923,0.00015303,-0.00049060,0.00129760,0.00150510,-0.00206300
Italian:Center,0.11701408,0.14925148,0.00917310,-0.02814708,0.02221933,-0.01003865,0.00044550,-0.00159775,0.00642820,0.02364700,0.00002603,0.0045 2040,-0.00955638,-0.00467495,-0.00375115,0.00052440,0.00259400,0.00045623,0.0023 5623,-0.00327855,-0.00208228,0.00226180,-0.00011475,0.00257140,-0.00120693
Italian:South_Italian:Mainland,0.10765055,0.147301 15,-0.00740228,-0.04272373,0.01384175,-0.01458015,-0.00069750,-0.00217618,0.00395688,0.02090800,0.00024765,0.0030 1008,-0.00603383,-0.00056470,-0.00836273,-0.00287953,0.00428768,0.00024715,0.00346385,-0.00433768,-0.00310053,0.00091510,0.00123820,0.00246810,0.0000 4713
Italian:South_Italian:Sicilian,0.10168200,0.146067 00,-0.00383415,-0.03832935,0.01861865,-0.01259680,-0.00129250,0.00030765,0.01046465,0.02180770,0.0053 5865,0.00349700,-0.00418735,0.00250000,-0.00409415,-0.00483950,-0.00236850,-0.00059115,0.00180165,-0.00500250,0.00039535,0.00175180,-0.00254700,-0.00060250,0.00031915
Iran,0.08819270,0.10113475,-0.06562890,-0.02964950,-0.04627995,-0.00295545,0.00468410,-0.00464850,-0.02821040,-0.01373640,0.00216160,-0.00098600,0.00418345,-0.00166035,0.00498295,0.01070660,-0.00466300,0.00281875,0.00398130,-0.00991535,-0.00093175,-0.00418420,-0.00039000,-0.00518885,0.00490625
MiddleEast,0.05685165,0.12859275,-0.04813445,-0.06769060,-0.01581660,-0.02342100,-0.00406920,-0.00286015,0.00661045,-0.00050155,0.00442385,-0.00707060,0.01346310,-0.00017820,-0.00193140,0.00745640,-0.00185565,0.00011665,0.00003315,0.00229120,0.0015 7940,0.00151840,-0.00176365,0.00088215,-0.00121830
Turkish:Northwest+Turkish_South+Turkish_Southwest+ Turkish_Central,0.09640925,0.06378650,-0.02045625,-0.03320250,-0.02308875,-0.01185625,0.00550450,-0.00071725,-0.01859325,-0.00091900,-0.00156250,0.00106575,-0.00297950,0.00045875,-0.00413350,0.00206750,0.00507075,0.00100425,0.0012 1175,-0.00008175,-0.00320775,0.00049575,-0.00238325,0.00046100,0.00063825
Balkan:Macedonian_average,0.1234982,0.142851,0.027 0897,-0.0048988,0.0265692,-0.0016735,0.0021542,0.0006922,-0.0004092,0.007654,-0.0000272,-0.0004497,-0.000768,0.0067208,-0.0148163,0.0015688,0.0118215,0.0004647,0.007144,-0.0046895,-0.0078197,0.002102,0.0057927,-0.0000402,-0.0041313
Palestinian/Jewish,0.08970675,0.15220263,-0.04970895,-0.08630155,-0.00821318,-0.02909195,-0.00308430,-0.00400938,0.01374138,0.01814400,0.00735825,-0.00407470,0.00702445,0.00651988,-0.00855050,0.00501358,-0.00108388,0.00259705,0.00276545,0.00053945,-0.00321313,0.00803751,0.00093205,0.00186763,0.0012 6450
Scandinavian,0.13387755,0.12812600,0.07000080,0.05 487155,0.03977280,0.02123570,0.00562880,0.00779640 ,0.00531760,-0.00310225,-0.00426855,0.00259765,-0.00608450,-0.00776585,0.01803785,0.00670525,-0.00632675,0.00230450,0.00208300,0.00281375,0.0063 5490,0.00392150,0.00270265,0.01419580,0.00005980
Slav:A,0.13138390,0.12667805,0.06910955,0.05764665 ,0.03918105,0.02150315,0.00872160,0.01108490,-0.00191195,-0.01982615,-0.00299075,-0.00703905,0.01422465,0.02013115,-0.00912990,-0.00082800,0.00311790,-0.00038630,0.00264685,0.00149370,-0.00381375,-0.00329875,0.00617250,-0.00369530,0.00031705
SSA:A,-0.55687967,0.06753267,0.00828100,-0.00197833,-0.00047466,-0.00003500,-0.01680300,0.02377800,0.01856900,-0.02692533,-0.00502067,0.00591333,-0.01327400,0.00153100,-0.00610700,0.00092800,0.00531300,-0.00194267,0.00208467,-0.00411667,0.00054600,-0.00162833,-0.00365633,-0.00061267,0.00158167
SSA:B,-0.6242421,0.0639936,0.0215130,0.0145326,0.0028094, 0.0117579,-0.0161961,0.0216721,-0.0308661,0.0149323,0.0037054,0.0018871,-0.0006642,0.0019913,-0.0064682,0.0041677,-0.0048993,0.0149827,-0.0066659,0.0019943,0.0010692,0.0020188,0.0011803, 0.0001642,0.0012754
Turkic,0.08279575,-0.04872655,-0.00773435,-0.00521585,-0.04090210,-0.00345510,0.00827315,0.00604885,-0.01586195,-0.01025075,-0.00767745,-0.00170265,0.00110940,-0.00557500,0.00308635,0.00607450,-0.00259560,0.00098765,-0.00011860,-0.00280345,-0.00721875,-0.00283710,-0.00430805,-0.00055895,0.00290500
Turkish,0.09640925,0.06378650,-0.02045625,-0.03320250,-0.02308875,-0.01185625,0.00550450,-0.00071725,-0.01859325,-0.00091900,-0.00156250,0.00106575,-0.00297950,0.00045875,-0.00413350,0.00206750,0.00507075,0.00100425,0.0012 1175,-0.00008175,-0.00320775,0.00049575,-0.00238325,0.00046100,0.00063825
Yemenite,0.05174190,0.13874660,-0.06566620,-0.11837600,-0.00721070,-0.05182340,-0.01121515,-0.00798695,0.06050780,-0.00232075,0.01483365,-0.03200295,0.06152495,0.00486465,0.00592640,0.0233 3400,-0.02076730,0.00343125,0.00063025,0.02348350,0.0122 1305,0.01540175,-0.01090055,0.00567000,-0.00689545
Balkan:Albania+Macedonian_average,0.1208423,0.1423 011,0.021323,-0.0103898,0.0258639,-0.0045437,0.0027613,0.00125,0.0001278,0.011891,0.0 005413,0.0005495,-0.0039333,0.0066634,-0.0170557,-0.0012928,0.0099744,0.000982,0.0077201,-0.0053149,-0.0066913,0.0014116,0.0041083,0.0010795,-0.0033281
Central_African:Sudanese+Dinka,-0.5775005,0.0526722,0.0013323,-0.006242,-0.0040058,-0.0018036,-0.0139344,0.0170878,0.0772641,-0.0934263,-0.019959,0.0223263,-0.0376471,-0.0007547,0.0088819,-0.0184831,0.0183071,-0.0104032,0.0218107,-0.0212966,0.0008642,0.0039951,-0.0009284,-0.0012872,0.0066699
CentralAsian:Turkmen4,0.08279575,-0.04872655,-0.00773435,-0.00521585,-0.04090210,-0.00345510,0.00827315,0.00604885,-0.01586195,-0.01025075,-0.00767745,-0.00170265,0.00110940,-0.00557500,0.00308635,0.00607450,-0.00259560,0.00098765,-0.00011860,-0.00280345,-0.00721875,-0.00283710,-0.00430805,-0.00055895,0.00290500
CentralAsian:Kazakh3,0.0665865,-0.2208775,0.0475175,-0.0082365,-0.0329290,-0.0149205,0.0126910,0.0124610,-0.0087945,0.0023695,-0.0215165,-0.0026975,-0.0034190,-0.0008945,0.0006105,0.0034475,0.0044330,0.0001900,-0.0029540,0.0066905,-0.0124160,-0.0060590,-0.0080110,0.0012655,-0.0011380
CentralAsian:Uzbek2,0.0745540,-0.1066305,-0.0079195,0.0113050,-0.0363145,0.0034860,0.0052875,0.0014995,-0.0152370,-0.0084740,-0.0168070,-0.0059195,0.0058720,-0.0058490,0.0039355,0.0049060,-0.0074970,0.0022805,0.0006285,-0.0045645,-0.0089220,-0.0027205,-0.0036970,-0.0023495,0.0019760
CentralAsian:Tajik1,0.0882130,0.0187875,-0.0337525,0.0179265,-0.0415460,0.0145025,0.0068155,0.0003465,-0.0285310,-0.0217770,-0.0071450,0.0035220,-0.0055005,-0.0106655,0.0108575,0.0083535,-0.0011085,-0.0011405,0.0002515,-0.0090665,-0.0084225,-0.0001855,0.0022185,0.0007835,0.0030535
Chinese_and_Vietnamese:Guizhou+Hunan,0.0175621,-0.4495462,-0.0283127,-0.06706,0.1094813,0.0507666,-0.0002504,-0.0077922,-0.0172462,-0.0093943,-0.018801,-0.0049517,0.0043134,-0.006977,-0.0028555,0.0013078,0.0025359,-0.0008778,-0.0025027,-0.0120425,0.014891,0.0071037,0.0163572,-0.0010603,0.0012949
Chinese_and_Vietnamese:Han_Shandong+Han_Shanghai+H an_Henan,0.02574093,-0.44672400,0.00416373,-0.06463350,0.05351190,0.02476773,0.00551737,0.0020 7600,-0.01316077,0.00126697,-0.07530797,-0.01189107,0.01126457,-0.00655843,-0.00550930,0.00257083,0.00261210,0.00151403,0.0006 5540,-0.00996537,0.01280200,0.00725607,0.01069883,-0.00123393,-0.00250313
Slav:Russian+Belarusian,0.13119282,0.11441266,0.07 595197,0.0684007,0.03622404,0.02491509,0.010711,0. 01310470,-0.00143407,-0.02581,-0.00098054,-0.00889098,0.01865119,0.02380024,-0.01107937,-0.00297275,0.00002045,-0.00025557,0.00211417,0.00006978,-0.00253295,-0.00431923,0.00640435,-0.00531757,-0.0001691
Slav:Polish+Ukrainian,0.13138390,0.12667805,0.0691 0955,0.05764665,0.03918105,0.02150315,0.00872160,0 .01108490,-0.00191195,-0.01982615,-0.00299075,-0.00703905,0.01422465,0.02013115,-0.00912990,-0.00082800,0.00311790,-0.00038630,0.00264685,0.00149370,-0.00381375,-0.00329875,0.00617250,-0.00369530,0.00031705
Slav:Russia+Ukrania,0.1310153,0.1214563,0.0711987, 0.0603063,0.0356400,0.0220150,0.0089957,0.0116723,-0.0034180,-0.0234717,-0.0007067,-0.0075860,0.0157850,0.0231097,-0.0123050,-0.0018747,0.0027710,-0.0005210,0.0028207,0.0022073,-0.0037993,-0.0040860,0.0049800,-0.0048143,-0.0007887
Eskimo:Eskimo+EskimoChaplin+EskimoNaukan+EskimoSir eniki,0.0466149,-0.3688403,0.1187765,0.0399512,-0.1213249,-0.0441851,-0.0979141,-0.111901,0.0066266,-0.0124769,0.030207,-0.0045295,0.009208,-0.0185154,-0.033596,-0.0153971,-0.0032999,0.0167186,0.0371127,0.0203858,0.02997,-0.0514784,0.0093826,0.0270206,0.040713
Indonesian:Bali+Java,0.0106221,-0.3986474,-0.0812927,-0.0322972,0.1412676,0.0622616,-0.0047389,-0.0120334,-0.010409,-0.0188626,0.0828474,0.0076368,-0.0088529,0.0050521,0.0059755,0.0022143,-0.001228,-0.0009977,0.0012898,0.0094298,-0.0133561,0.0012463,-0.0118502,0.0009681,0.0161695
Malay:Malay+Kadar,0.0108985,-0.2706131,-0.1287679,0.0524638,0.033837,0.0542722,-0.0043064,0.004344,0.0358173,0.0190254,0.0301963,0 .0031173,-0.0040176,0.0072631,-0.0073358,-0.0083531,0.0043775,-0.0002788,0.0001288,0.0126843,-0.0014381,0.0025844,-0.0071392,0.0014279,-0.0034789
Filipino:Luzon+Vizayan,0.0119515,-0.418398,-0.058831,-0.0434435,0.1317165,0.0489455,-0.005405,-0.0102685,-0.0150325,-0.0164015,0.0457935,0.0046455,-0.0032705,-0.0020645,0.010315,0.0057675,-0.006845,0.0050045,0.006788,-0.009567,0.000312,-0.0284405,-0.003143,-0.0042175,-0.050714
Finnish:Finnish+FinnishEast,0.128582,0.083663,0.09 2565,0.078958,0.029816,0.023622,0.008876,0.014773, 0.004196,-0.026607,0.004236,-0.007461,0.015216,0.005767,0.001455,-0.002047,-0.006585,0.000171,-0.000392,0.004094,0.007928,0.001223,0.002531,0.005 306,0.003258
Amerindian:Surui+Karitiana,0.0583155,-0.3187578,0.1177434,0.1075438,-0.113734,-0.0145071,-0.32444,-0.3870877,-0.0164609,-0.019059,0.0015129,-0.0036867,0.000342,0.0315914,-0.00903,0.0025016,0.0109589,0.0006777,0.0001781,0. 0004607,-0.0045377,0.011782,-0.0061622,-0.0049885,-0.0079674

mokordo
01-25-2021, 11:12 PM
Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 1.4315% / 0.01431494
90.4 Iberian_Peninsula
5.0 Slav
4.2 Greek
0.4 Yemenite

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 1.4395% / 0.01439548 | ADC: 0.25x RC
91.4 Iberian_Peninsula
5.8 Balkan
2.8 Slav
**************************************
Target: gixajo_dad_scaled
Distance: 1.8746% / 0.01874576
76.8 Iberian_Peninsula
18.0 Italian
5.0 Berber
0.2 SSA

Target: gixajo_dad_scaled
Distance: 1.9404% / 0.01940382 | ADC: 0.25x RC
90.8 Iberian_Peninsula
9.2 Italian
*******************************************
Target: gixajo_mom_scaled
Distance: 1.6034% / 0.01603394
83.4 Iberian_Peninsula
11.2 French
3.0 Baltic
2.4 English


Target: gixajo_mom_scaled
Distance: 1.6150% / 0.01615048 | ADC: 0.25x RC
83.4 Iberian_Peninsula
13.6 French
3.0 Baltic

Luso
01-26-2021, 02:43 AM
Target: Luso_scaled
Distance: 1.8208% / 0.01820844
84.6 Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest5
9.2 Italian:South_Italian:Sicilian
2.4 Slav:Russian+Belarusian
2.0 Berber:n7
1.4 Central_African:Sudanese+Dinka
0.2 Iberian_Peninsula:North5
0.2 Eskimo:Eskimo+EskimoChaplin+EskimoNaukan+EskimoSir eniki

Target: Luso_scaled
Distance: 1.8324% / 0.01832356 | ADC: 0.25x RC
86.2 Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest5
5.8 Balkan:Albania+Macedonian_average
4.8 Italian:South_Italian:Sicilian
1.6 Berber:n7
1.6 Central_African:Sudanese+Dinka


Distance to: Luso_scaled
0.02461591 Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest5
0.02537503 Iberian_Peninsula:SouthWest1
0.02558890 Iberian_Peninsula:E
0.02616056 Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest3
0.02624700 Iberian_Peninsula:CenterWest1
0.02671080 Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest2
0.02730202 Iberian_Peninsula:SouthWest5
0.02744884 Iberian_Peninsula:SouthWest4
0.02773697 Iberian_Peninsula:Center1
0.02773703 Iberian_Peninsula:Center
0.02804261 Iberian_PeninsulaIberian:SouthWest_Iberia
0.02818949 Iberian_Peninsula:SouthWest2
0.02838475 Iberian_Peninsula:SouthEast2
0.02855333 Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest1
0.02855357 Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest_Iberia
0.02909182 Iberian_Peninsula:SouthEast_Iberia
0.02913985 Iberian_Peninsula:CenterSouth
0.02993889 Iberian_Peninsula:SouthWest3
0.03051109 Iberian_Peninsula:NorthEast3
0.03066770 Iberian_Peninsula:SouthEast4
0.03101647 Iberian_Peninsula:North7
0.03137999 Iberian_Peninsula:A
0.03197104 Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest4
0.03238529 Iberian_Peninsula:SouthEast3
0.03438062 Iberian_Peninsula:CenterEast4

alejandromb92
01-26-2021, 07:08 AM
Target: Alejandro_scaled
Distance: 2.3545% / 0.02354452 | ADC: 0.25x RC
63.4 Iberian_Peninsula
33.0 Balkan
2.4 Berber
1.2 Turkish

Luso
01-26-2021, 09:31 AM
Y si le cambio Bell_Beaker_Bavaria por un Che_IA y le añado un sample Ibérico antiguo:


Basque_Spanish,0.1319083,0.1504111,0.0582862,0.009 0081,0.0575834,0.0001239,-0.0033162,0.0004102,0.0313603,0.0455997,-0.0045288,0.0116063,-0.0227781,-0.0187627,0.0179452,0.0037271,-0.0058094,0.0027731,-0.0018156,-6.96e-05,0.0087901,0.0024868,-0.0068883,-0.0090371,0.0022619
MAR_Taforalt,-0.189857,0.0814452,-0.0242866,-0.085595,0.027636,-0.0552202,-0.0705968,0.0184146,0.155397,0.003499,0.0209156,-0.0318316,0.0747168,-0.0513334,0.0711988,-0.0363032,0.0052676,-0.066106,-0.1424162,0.0389938,-0.0376836,-0.1255322,0.0730118,-0.0137606,0.0164534
ITA_Rome_Imperial,0.1039821,0.1495156,-0.0235307,-0.0574065,0.0045265,-0.0204055,-0.0011946,-0.0051488,0.0006604,0.0196549,0.0034575,0.0025539,-0.0040602,-0.0014737,-0.0081715,-0.0014474,0.0035992,0.000454,0.0012178,-0.0032854,-0.0025579,0.0020454,-0.0006985,-0.0004845,0.0004141
Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES,0.118376,0.1457285,0.0446885,0.013566,0.044 6235,-0.000139,0.0005875,0.007615,0.024441,0.0266065,-0.0080385,0.008917,-0.0064665,-0.006675,0.012079,0.002055,-0.008279,0.004371,-0.000754,0.0027515,-0.0004995,-0.0009275,-0.0056695,0.00241,-0.0022755
CHE_IA,0.125205,0.153345,0.050534,-0.003876,0.049548,-0.005578,0.0047,-0.002077,0.014726,0.033896,0.001786,0.016335,-0.016353,-0.008945,0.001764,-0.001591,0.009518,0.001647,0.002514,-0.006128,0.005241,0.005688,-0.012078,-0.004338,0.000958


Me mejoran bastante las distancias:

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 1.3033% / 0.01303329
46.6 Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES
32.6 Basque_Spanish
13.0 CHE_IA
6.6 ITA_Rome_Imperial
1.2 MAR_Taforalt

Y solo con estos tres:


MAR_Taforalt,-0.189857,0.0814452,-0.0242866,-0.085595,0.027636,-0.0552202,-0.0705968,0.0184146,0.155397,0.003499,0.0209156,-0.0318316,0.0747168,-0.0513334,0.0711988,-0.0363032,0.0052676,-0.066106,-0.1424162,0.0389938,-0.0376836,-0.1255322,0.0730118,-0.0137606,0.0164534
Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES,0.118376,0.1457285,0.0446885,0.013566,0.044 6235,-0.000139,0.0005875,0.007615,0.024441,0.0266065,-0.0080385,0.008917,-0.0064665,-0.006675,0.012079,0.002055,-0.008279,0.004371,-0.000754,0.0027515,-0.0004995,-0.0009275,-0.0056695,0.00241,-0.0022755
CHE_IA,0.125205,0.153345,0.050534,-0.003876,0.049548,-0.005578,0.0047,-0.002077,0.014726,0.033896,0.001786,0.016335,-0.016353,-0.008945,0.001764,-0.001591,0.009518,0.001647,0.002514,-0.006128,0.005241,0.005688,-0.012078,-0.004338,0.000958


Sigo teniendo unas distancias aceptables:

arget: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 1.6105% / 0.01610547
62.2 Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES
36.4 CHE_IA
1.4 MAR_Taforalt

Pero no era eso lo que buscaba.

Edit:me refiero a distancias, aunque puede servir también de alguna forma a mi primera intención, ahora que lo veo.:)

Target: Luso_scaled
Distance: 2.8872% / 0.02887195
47.2 Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES
24.8 CHE_IA
12.2 Basque_Spanish
9.6 ITA_Rome_Imperial
6.2 MAR_Taforalt

y solo con los tres...

Target: Luso_scaled
Distance: 2.9945% / 0.02994527
50.6 Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES
42.4 CHE_IA
7.0 MAR_Taforalt

Pedro Ruben
01-26-2021, 02:03 PM
Solo con los tres

Target: Pedro_scaled
Distance: 3.0598% / 0.03059805
61.6 Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES
30.5 CHE_IA
7.9 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Dad_scaled
Distance: 2.8291% / 0.02829111
58.2 Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES
32.0 CHE_IA
9.8 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Mom_scaled
Distance: 2.5885% / 0.02588469
64.9 Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES
29.6 CHE_IA
5.5 MAR_Taforalt

mokordo
01-26-2021, 03:37 PM
Target: Pedro_scaled
[t


Target: Luso_scaled


We tried to make a proxy for NW_Iberia_IA (with Ruderico´s indications and guide) , you could try it instead of the reference East_Iberia_IA.(Don´t know if it will work well).

Those were the different options I´ve made.

NWIberia_IA_scaled:proxyD,0.1274817,0.1394662,0.06 86987,0.0266475,0.0514453,0.0038117,0.0001958,0.00 24233,0.0210317,0.0249663,-0.008742,-0.0005495,-0.0119425,-0.0024312,0.0099528,-0.0008615,-0.0067583,0.0014782,0.0031843,0.0051277,0.0034525, 0.0021022,-0.0027732,-0.0075508,-0.0043508
NWIberia_IA_scaled:proxyC,0.1248257,0.1458977,0.06 44873,0.0163653,0.0532407,0.0041837,-0.00188,0.0037693,0.0243383,0.031466,-0.0055753,0.005945,-0.0168483,-0.0067433,0.0120337,-0.0031377,-0.011604,0.001858,0.0018853,0.000042,0.0087763,0.0 03586,-0.0062033,-0.0098403,-0.005828
NWIberia_IA_scaled:proxyB,0.1269125,0.140397,0.067 7873,0.0228523,0.0530868,0.0036955,-0.000705,0.0029425,0.022293,0.027472,-0.0071045,0.0017985,-0.0131938,-0.0039565,0.010145,-0.0006295,-0.0071385,0.0013303,0.0023568,0.0036583,0.0046483, 0.002164,-0.0038515,-0.0086153,-0.00479
NWIberia_IA_scaled:proxyA,0.124636,0.1472518,0.064 2045,0.0188148,0.0508555,0.004602,-0.0011163,0.003404,0.023469,0.0297045,-0.007267,0.0044963,-0.0167988,-0.0058488,0.0126898,-0.0047398,-0.0132665,0.0023438,0.002891,0.000438,0.0090468,0. 0042043,-0.0057618,-0.0088563,-0.0056883

Suposedly, A and C are the best ones.

rober_tce
01-26-2021, 03:50 PM
Target: Rober_scaled
Distance: 1.2632% / 0.01263231
59.2 Iberian_Peninsula:North2
19.6 Iberian_Peninsula:North_Iberia
8.2 Iberian_Peninsula:A
6.2 Irish:Irish+Ireland
2.0 Berber:n7
1.8 Arabian
1.8 Palestinian/Jewish
1.2 Central_African:Sudanese+Dinka

Pedro Ruben
01-26-2021, 03:58 PM
Con tres

Target: Pedro_scaled
Distance: 3.0330% / 0.03033016
52.7 NWIberia_IA_scaled
37.5 CHE_IA
9.8 MAR_Taforalt

Con cinco

Target: Pedro_scaled
Distance: 2.1565% / 0.02156519
70.9 NWIberia_IA_scaled
21.4 ITA_Rome_Imperial
7.7 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Dad_scaled
Distance: 2.1557% / 0.02155702
72.1 NWIberia_IA_scaled
18.1 ITA_Rome_Imperial
9.8 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Mom_scaled
Distance: 2.5885% / 0.02588509
58.3 NWIberia_IA_scaled
14.2 ITA_Rome_Imperial
12.4 CHE_IA
9.0 Basque_Spanish
6.1 MAR_Taforalt

Pedro Ruben
01-26-2021, 04:04 PM
Ultimate Iberian Calculator.(For everybody but focused in Iberian ancestry)

Recommended 0.25X

Un pequeño poupourri de referencias usadas de varios modelos y calculadores, he estado a punto de mezclar TODAS las referencias que tengo, pero podrían explotar vuestros PCs:nod:


Iberian_Peninsula:SouthWest1,0.0947128,0.1458888,0 .0329882,-0.0081685,0.0415461,-0.0060402,-0.0042116,0.0017368,0.0281598,0.0301074,-0.0013248,0.0062668,-0.010191,-0.0125129,0.0106327,-0.0023483,-0.0044572,-0.0022938,-0.0075518,-0.0005726,0.0017666,-0.0038658,-0.0001654,-0.0043759,0.0017931
Iberian_Peninsula:SouthWest2,0.1066143,0.1480178,0 .0343842,-0.0023092,0.0430928,-0.0043227,-0.0029623,0.0008298,0.0246971,0.0311927,-0.0017266,0.0061589,-0.011906,-0.0118282,0.0088992,0.0000546,-0.0042616,-0.0021971,-0.0053356,-0.0008578,0.0025252,-0.0030208,-0.0017253,-0.0040524,0.0016609
Iberian_Peninsula:SouthWest3,0.1103136,0.1489866,0 .0367065,-0.0022072,0.0415074,-0.0037999,-0.0028494,0.0003653,0.024662,0.0325823,-0.0017051,0.0068687,-0.0129399,-0.012317,0.008918,0.0007736,-0.0041886,-0.001742,-0.0032682,-0.0001355,0.0037902,-0.0016282,-0.0012632,-0.0033287,0.0001798
Iberian_Peninsula:SouthWest4,0.107153,0.1453437,0. 0358575,-0.0039328,0.0436962,-0.0049531,-0.0028354,0.0027098,0.0251567,0.0304517,-0.0014439,0.0073469,-0.0129723,-0.0113357,0.0114001,-0.0014481,-0.0036539,-0.0009936,-0.0050112,-0.0011889,0.0020335,-0.0019368,-0.0003352,-0.003233,0.0008896
Iberian_Peninsula:SouthWest5,0.0937339,0.1451566,0 .0331382,-0.0086673,0.039987,-0.0051366,-0.0051174,0.0017868,0.0286013,0.0293967,-0.0006149,0.0063413,-0.0099561,-0.0124403,0.0117895,-0.001298,-0.0019349,-0.0021871,-0.0083026,0.0003711,0.000871,-0.004501,0.0014714,-0.0022755,0.0007982
Iberian_Peninsula:CenterWest1,0.1069632,0.1442391, 0.0382424,-0.0032925,0.0429699,-0.0010951,-0.0027323,0.0036874,0.0270135,0.0294797,-0.0015309,0.0076322,-0.0124142,-0.0116411,0.0124084,-0.0034694,-0.0039557,-0.0013091,-0.0051435,-0.001269,0.0007145,-0.0017394,0.0013081,-0.0018515,-0.0014297
Iberian_Peninsula:Center1,0.1116414,0.1459401,0.04 04147,-0.0026917,0.0429436,-0.0014759,-0.0017136,0.0031729,0.0265369,0.0315799,-0.0022193,0.0082675,-0.013683,-0.0122025,0.0112705,-0.0038008,-0.006405,-0.0009607,-0.0023254,-0.0014904,0.002875,0.0002885,0.0001335,-0.0032282,-0.0019159
Iberian_Peninsula:Center2,0.1147717,0.1480979,0.04 36202,-0.0052757,0.0488294,-0.0043694,-0.0018017,0.0034615,0.0280199,0.0340172,-0.0038434,0.006769,-0.014519,-0.013441,0.009455,0.003558,0.0018907,-0.0020692,-0.0025765,-0.0008964,0.006634,0.0007212,-0.0004517,-0.0059847,-0.000958
Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest1,0.1074692,0.1455367,0 .0385359,-0.0030413,0.0416707,-0.0020712,-0.0045992,0.0025915,0.0251558,0.0298848,-0.0014316,0.006579,-0.0126743,-0.0117099,0.0118505,0.0000958,-0.0026846,-0.0015238,-0.0054019,-0.0006264,0.0010057,-0.0027355,0.0002468,-0.0024072,0.0005993
Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest2,0.1082583,0.1451643,0 .0407708,-0.0019021,0.0425035,0.0008832,-0.0035903,0.0035191,0.026571,0.0296234,-0.0022284,0.0067898,-0.0123512,-0.0120879,0.0117021,-0.0029759,-0.0055086,-0.001946,-0.0047834,-0.0016502,0.0005822,-0.0019029,0.0002534,-0.0031261,-0.0007251
Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest3,0.1095862,0.1453335,0 .0433481,-0.0005025,0.0464532,-0.003672,-0.0063711,0.0046731,0.0253442,0.0306868,-0.0026886,0.0069148,-0.0158202,-0.0106199,0.0127651,-0.0064014,-0.0100723,-0.0004469,-0.0052234,-0.0009413,0.0038682,-0.004479,-0.001205,-0.0011784,0.0038849
Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest4,0.114961,0.1458975,0. 0450032,0.0032839,0.04924,-0.0066004,-0.0039167,0.004423,0.0247817,0.0330457,-0.0044387,0.0083677,-0.0188305,-0.0129824,0.0117395,-0.0058785,-0.0097137,0.0012669,-0.0054049,-0.0028345,0.004825,-0.0026585,-0.0037794,-0.0002212,0.0035722
Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest5,0.1090802,0.1440359,0 .0430547,-0.0007537,0.0477524,-0.0026959,-0.0045042,0.005769,0.0272019,0.0302817,-0.0027879,0.007968,-0.01556,-0.010551,0.013323,-0.0099665,-0.0113434,-0.0002322,-0.004965,-0.0015839,0.003577,-0.0034829,-0.0001437,-0.0006227,0.001856
Iberian_Peninsula:A,0.1072213,0.1440698,0.0360527,-0.0049311,0.0435568,-0.0050758,-0.0039167,0.0030151,0.0254836,0.0298017,-0.0009959,0.0085925,-0.0144102,-0.0117989,0.0143593,-0.0000442,0.0006173,-0.0007265,-0.0059916,0.0015091,0.0014307,-0.0018877,0.0016269,-0.0005382,-0.0003272
Iberian_Peninsula:E,0.1046033,0.1454238,0.0359396,-0.0036822,0.0400073,-0.0025099,-0.0034780,0.0023767,0.0257700,0.0296499,-0.0003411,0.0056649,-0.0102279,-0.0104594,0.0098531,-0.0009281,-0.0037550,-0.0011275,-0.0054177,-0.0028765,0.0006987,-0.0035983,0.0008134,-0.0020243,0.0002275
Iberian_Peninsula:NorthEast1,0.1170481,0.1463632,0 .0436362,0.0010229,0.0470216,-0.0000698,-0.0012827,0.0026632,0.0236311,0.0336987,-0.0020233,0.0094479,-0.0168298,-0.0117381,0.0108126,-0.0005968,-0.0027056,-0.0012194,-0.0016811,0.0000209,0.0048299,-0.0028181,-0.0025368,-0.0014913,0.0003591
Iberian_Peninsula:NorthEast3,0.1136333,0.1451784,0 .0409332,-0.0012382,0.0453288,0.0008599,-0.001126,0.0037785,0.0266648,0.0330607,-0.0022398,0.0090733,-0.0148723,-0.0124263,0.0125089,-0.0046628,-0.0057695,-0.0012616,-0.0033781,-0.0006461,0.0018768,-0.000407,0.000072,-0.0018124,-0.0014968
Iberian_Peninsula:CenterEast1,0.1170479,0.1457708, 0.0407289,-0.0018438,0.043598,-0.0018361,-0.0012729,0.002048,0.0211939,0.0312687,-0.0037756,0.0081366,-0.0139372,-0.0124777,0.0067691,0.0007015,-0.0013473,-0.0003326,-0.0000524,-0.0026471,0.0030573,-0.0003763,-0.0004056,-0.0024097,-0.0010277
Iberian_Peninsula:CenterEast2,0.1153407,0.1465748, 0.0432432,-0.0002153,0.043957,-0.0011157,-0.0012925,0.0024228,0.0207933,0.0298868,-0.0032209,0.0082677,-0.0155105,-0.011629,0.0064017,0.0019224,0.0006737,-0.0002957,0.0000002,-0.0026679,0.0033692,-0.0025555,-0.001335,-0.0008032,-0.0015767
Iberian_Peninsula:CenterEast3,0.1162893,0.1454323, 0.0433691,0.0007403,0.0468293,-0.0007204,-0.0020171,0.0020095,0.0227619,0.0318762,-0.0024495,0.0084612,-0.0144327,-0.0114914,0.0092348,0.0003702,-0.0026729,-0.001684,-0.0011835,-0.0009379,0.0058854,-0.0035498,-0.0029733,-0.0035346,0.0015067
Iberian_Peninsula:CenterEast4,0.1175224,0.1472518, 0.0408705,-0.0017765,0.0444697,-0.0024753,-0.0011163,0.0023364,0.0247729,0.0354223,-0.0021313,0.0094978,-0.0164643,-0.0126098,0.0115194,-0.0019225,-0.0053947,-0.0004909,-0.0011785,0.0001563,0.0044608,0.0007883,-0.0011093,-0.0024703,-0.0006587
Iberian_Peninsula:CenterSouth,0.1118312,0.1470447, 0.0380297,-0.003332,0.0436699,-0.0053339,-0.0018167,0.0021953,0.0246801,0.032552,-0.0021323,0.0079822,-0.0142411,-0.0118972,0.0102622,-0.0017795,-0.0061032,-0.0006451,-0.0021931,-0.0014103,0.0041941,0.0000911,-0.0015098,-0.0046097,0.0004033
Iberian_Peninsula:SouthEast2,0.1087009,0.144506,0. 036804,-0.004624,0.0453626,-0.0039743,-0.0034617,-0.0003431,0.024987,0.0316862,-0.0027819,0.005341,-0.0127916,-0.0111059,0.0074797,-0.001962,-0.0025829,-0.0001224,-0.0021616,-0.000566,0.0039757,-0.0021192,-0.001325,-0.0041728,0.0019301
Iberian_Peninsula:SouthEast3,0.1136333,0.1437822,0 .0393777,-0.0033511,0.04597,-0.0017663,-0.0034957,-0.0008557,0.0242106,0.0327341,-0.0032071,0.0058698,-0.0126177,-0.0115718,0.0071591,-0.0011381,-0.0018417,-0.0004327,-0.0006494,0.0000417,0.0052979,-0.0021537,-0.0013609,-0.0040767,0.0020158
Iberian_Peninsula:SouthEast4,0.1124003,0.1454748,0 .0391263,-0.004522,0.0437772,-0.0034514,-0.0033488,-0.0008076,0.0249519,0.0330758,-0.0027604,0.0060508,-0.0138255,-0.0115948,0.0074985,-0.001243,-0.0025099,0.0003328,-0.0000943,0.0001563,0.0052406,-0.0007266,-0.0008629,-0.0034491,0.000449
Iberian_Peninsula:North1,0.1206526,0.1494095,0.044 076,-0.0043605,0.0503554,-0.0053688,-0.0012044,0.002625,0.0262559,0.0378595,-0.0037554,0.0079993,-0.0173003,-0.0138483,0.0097039,0.0054363,0.0029009,-0.0015994,-0.0014296,0.0007503,0.0082198,0.0012209,-0.0016944,-0.0052268,0.0002993
Iberian_Peninsula:North2,0.1206527,0.1492827,0.045 506,-0.0045759,0.0512915,-0.0059032,-0.0025459,0.0004234,0.0262815,0.0387555,-0.0051694,0.0085924,-0.0161049,-0.0159414,0.0111517,0.0082429,0.0009127,-0.0006547,-0.00155,-0.0010214,0.0088177,0.0024522,-0.0045804,-0.0046794,0.0027942
Iberian_Peninsula:North3,0.125016,0.1519907,0.0515 397,-0.0001615,0.052984,-0.0040904,-0.0008225,0.0026155,0.0276789,0.0393325,-0.0056297,0.0075184,-0.0190035,-0.013464,0.0125314,0.005591,-0.0008912,0.0002322,0.0007964,-0.0030434,0.0103567,-0.0000415,-0.004375,-0.0080735,0.002255
Iberian_Peninsula:North4,0.1238777,0.1489443,0.050 2827,0.0036607,0.0504195,0.0006045,-0.0014884,0.0007309,0.0263494,0.039272,-0.00544,0.0104157,-0.0181614,-0.0145424,0.017033,0.0001769,-0.0105395,0.0019845,-0.0001257,-0.0045647,0.0061973,0.0000617,-0.0067374,-0.0033539,0.0042112
Iberian_Peninsula:North5,0.1179967,0.1477595,0.048 3968,0.0029609,0.0479574,0.0021383,-0.0007442,0.003769,0.0280877,0.0345337,-0.004114,0.0085924,-0.0165755,-0.012042,0.0153364,-0.004508,-0.0095615,0.00057,-0.0011522,-0.0044397,0.0040137,-0.0016694,-0.0026087,-0.0046592,0.000459
Iberian_Peninsula:North6,0.1238775,0.1496212,0.050 3453,0.0069984,0.049445,-0.0017662,-0.0001567,0.002423,0.0256675,0.0372977,-0.0057648,0.008992,-0.019846,-0.0144734,0.0137529,-0.00042,-0.0079318,0.002069,-0.001592,-0.0056904,0.0052617,-0.000845,-0.0062444,-0.0042577,0.0021752
Iberian_Peninsula:North7,0.1136332,0.1457284,0.042 4258,0.0018842,0.0452904,-0.0020452,-0.0011358,0.003269,0.0260085,0.0319823,-0.0039785,0.0082427,-0.0153615,-0.0144504,0.0106765,-0.002453,-0.00515,-0.0002323,-0.0049649,-0.0035434,0.001539,-0.0000824,-0.002321,-0.0021688,-0.0010379
Iberian_Peninsula:Center,0.11164140,0.14594010,0.0 4041465,-0.00269165,0.04294360,-0.00147585,-0.00171355,0.00317290,0.02653685,0.03157990,-0.00221925,0.00826750,-0.01368300,-0.01220250,0.01127050,-0.00380075,-0.00640495,-0.00096065,-0.00232535,-0.00149035,0.00287500,0.00028850,0.00013350,-0.00322815,-0.00191590
Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest_Iberia,0.10746950,0.14 553650,0.03853550,-0.00304150,0.04167050,-0.00207100,-0.00459900,0.00259150,0.02515550,0.02988500,-0.00143150,0.00657900,-0.01267400,-0.01171000,0.01185050,0.00009550,-0.00268450,-0.00152400,-0.00540200,-0.00062600,0.00100550,-0.00273550,0.00024650,-0.00240750,0.00059950
Iberian_Peninsula:North_Iberia,0.12242300,0.148492 67,0.04831367,0.00441433,0.04920567,-0.00158033,-0.00117500,0.00112833,0.02542900,0.03776333,-0.00550333,0.00982467,-0.01831833,-0.01532200,0.01438633,0.00066300,-0.00819967,0.00174567,-0.00188533,-0.00464133,0.00506033,0.00028867,-0.00647733,-0.00282500,0.00303367
Iberian_PeninsulaIberian:NorthEast_Iberia,0.116289 50,0.14543250,0.04336900,0.00072050,0.04682900,-0.00072050,-0.00201750,0.00200900,0.02276150,0.03187600,-0.00244950,0.00846100,-0.01443250,-0.01149150,0.00923450,0.00037000,-0.00267300,-0.00168400,-0.00118350,-0.00093800,0.00588550,-0.00354950,-0.00297350,-0.00353450,0.00150700
Iberian_PeninsulaIberian:SouthWest_Iberia,0.106467 33,0.14688233,0.03492500,-0.00301667,0.04277467,-0.00423167,-0.00322200,0.00147333,0.02499733,0.03070867,-0.00139567,0.00657967,-0.01218267,-0.01163967,0.01011833,-0.00009600,-0.00321833,-0.00176033,-0.00547800,-0.00065367,0.00206267,-0.00287133,-0.00071667,-0.00307933,0.00107233
Iberian_Peninsula:SouthEast_Iberia,0.11097733,0.14 567500,0.03798667,-0.00415933,0.04427033,-0.00425333,-0.00287600,0.00034833,0.02487300,0.03243767,-0.00255833,0.00645767,-0.01361933,-0.01153233,0.00841333,-0.00166133,-0.00373200,-0.00014500,-0.00148333,-0.00060700,0.00447000,-0.00091833,-0.00123267,-0.00407733,0.00092767
Iberian_Peninsula:North_BC,0.1320348,0.1515168,0.0 558892,0.0105298,0.0564412,0.0001114,-0.000611,0.001892,0.0296968,0.0435908,-0.0098732,0.0095016,-0.0205746,-0.0157716,0.0164766,0.0029964,-0.0075364,0.0035476,-0.002363,-0.0047022,0.0114298,0.0021268,-0.008997,-0.0093022,0.0010298
Berber:n7,-0.05386443,0.13448546,-0.00934256,-0.07596989,0.02513761,-0.03430853,-0.02823581,0.0071875,0.06447191,0.02839774,0.00649 851,-0.00760977,0.0223002,-0.01514833,0.01552203,-0.01224471,-0.00229253,-0.0202083,-0.04156531,0.00950406,-0.01390176,-0.03600231,0.02360911,-0.00271777,0.00473974
Arabian,0.05059585,0.13995270,-0.06513990,-0.11723870,-0.00940130,-0.04997380,-0.01229238,-0.00808298,0.05608075,-0.00410653,0.01556333,-0.03192903,0.06243548,0.00350273,0.00455410,0.0252 5745,-0.02140830,0.00386218,0.00015448,0.02687405,0.0126 3658,0.01614353,-0.00905183,0.00697205,-0.00832413
Baltic:Lithuanian+Estonian+Latvian,0.13452148,0.12 062239,0.08690013,0.08467086,0.04324176,0.03159824 ,0.0115997,0.01480449,-0.00163362,-0.03234143,-0.00249161,-0.01265707,0.02141043,0.02735196,-0.00952909,0.00204703,0.00200312,-0.00109701,0.00194781,0.00313233,-0.00184769,-0.00433336,0.00725102,-0.00543653,0.00193011
Irish:Irish+Ireland,0.1333156,0.133302,0.0612522,0 .0494899,0.03722405,0.01981505,0.003592715,0.00465 054,0.004015315,0.003132795,-0.006798435,0.006078655,-0.01399805,-0.0142284,0.02653675,0.005617805,-0.01122035,0.001576174,0.000440942,0.002223565,0.0 05053135,0.00133376,0.00095749,0.0140395,0.0002452 81
English:English+English_Cornwall,0.13102565,0.1383 9775,0.06157145,0.04359780,0.04056560,0.01657980,0 .00420955,0.00606750,0.00587280,0.00632250,-0.00470165,0.00604745,-0.01316735,-0.01029915,0.02068505,0.00336205,-0.01144795,0.00310430,0.00372315,0.00310190,0.0053 7285,0.00363740,-0.00201385,0.01408045,0.00036125
French:Cluster(A+B+C+D),0.1277379,0.1443788,0.0516 499,0.0220623,0.0441839,0.0081762,0.001742,0.00388 36,0.0173982,0.022762,-0.0051918,0.0069986,-0.0153028,-0.0111361,0.0157499,-0.0007448,-0.0078411,0.0025871,0.0010925,-0.0002574,0.0037564,0.002014,-0.0019068,0.0046416,0.0009724
Chinese,0.02574093,-0.44672400,0.00416373,-0.06463350,0.05351190,0.02476773,0.00551737,0.0020 7600,-0.01316077,0.00126697,-0.07530797,-0.01189107,0.01126457,-0.00655843,-0.00550930,0.00257083,0.00261210,0.00151403,0.0006 5540,-0.00996537,0.01280200,0.00725607,0.01069883,-0.00123393,-0.00250313
German:B,0.12850750,0.13434200,0.05953750,0.042428 00,0.04023600,0.01613500,0.00530550,0.00693350,0.0 0355100,0.00110350,-0.00542900,0.00348000,-0.00703950,-0.00569200,0.01297850,0.00431800,-0.00574350,0.00146500,0.00381850,0.00226650,0.0039 1550,0.00243600,0.00017000,0.01182950,-0.00010750
Greek,0.11140840,0.14591180,-0.00812253,-0.04104343,0.00871315,-0.01319430,0.00090083,-0.00172838,-0.00075845,0.01704973,0.00310060,0.00279748,-0.00398438,0.00354085,-0.00934730,-0.00112803,0.00415830,0.00021075,0.00356465,-0.00389083,-0.00505928,0.00134385,0.00106483,0.00079573,-0.00272183
India,0.05425723,-0.05224190,-0.14531813,0.10516810,-0.07525927,0.06000990,0.00056697,0.01146813,0.0299 5450,0.01783713,-0.00570163,-0.00016823,-0.00002613,0.00110113,0.00060693,-0.00117137,-0.00384817,0.00066970,0.00074737,-0.00379923,0.00015303,-0.00049060,0.00129760,0.00150510,-0.00206300
Italian:Center,0.11701408,0.14925148,0.00917310,-0.02814708,0.02221933,-0.01003865,0.00044550,-0.00159775,0.00642820,0.02364700,0.00002603,0.0045 2040,-0.00955638,-0.00467495,-0.00375115,0.00052440,0.00259400,0.00045623,0.0023 5623,-0.00327855,-0.00208228,0.00226180,-0.00011475,0.00257140,-0.00120693
Italian:South_Italian:Mainland,0.10765055,0.147301 15,-0.00740228,-0.04272373,0.01384175,-0.01458015,-0.00069750,-0.00217618,0.00395688,0.02090800,0.00024765,0.0030 1008,-0.00603383,-0.00056470,-0.00836273,-0.00287953,0.00428768,0.00024715,0.00346385,-0.00433768,-0.00310053,0.00091510,0.00123820,0.00246810,0.0000 4713
Italian:South_Italian:Sicilian,0.10168200,0.146067 00,-0.00383415,-0.03832935,0.01861865,-0.01259680,-0.00129250,0.00030765,0.01046465,0.02180770,0.0053 5865,0.00349700,-0.00418735,0.00250000,-0.00409415,-0.00483950,-0.00236850,-0.00059115,0.00180165,-0.00500250,0.00039535,0.00175180,-0.00254700,-0.00060250,0.00031915
Iran,0.08819270,0.10113475,-0.06562890,-0.02964950,-0.04627995,-0.00295545,0.00468410,-0.00464850,-0.02821040,-0.01373640,0.00216160,-0.00098600,0.00418345,-0.00166035,0.00498295,0.01070660,-0.00466300,0.00281875,0.00398130,-0.00991535,-0.00093175,-0.00418420,-0.00039000,-0.00518885,0.00490625
MiddleEast,0.05685165,0.12859275,-0.04813445,-0.06769060,-0.01581660,-0.02342100,-0.00406920,-0.00286015,0.00661045,-0.00050155,0.00442385,-0.00707060,0.01346310,-0.00017820,-0.00193140,0.00745640,-0.00185565,0.00011665,0.00003315,0.00229120,0.0015 7940,0.00151840,-0.00176365,0.00088215,-0.00121830
Turkish:Northwest+Turkish_South+Turkish_Southwest+ Turkish_Central,0.09640925,0.06378650,-0.02045625,-0.03320250,-0.02308875,-0.01185625,0.00550450,-0.00071725,-0.01859325,-0.00091900,-0.00156250,0.00106575,-0.00297950,0.00045875,-0.00413350,0.00206750,0.00507075,0.00100425,0.0012 1175,-0.00008175,-0.00320775,0.00049575,-0.00238325,0.00046100,0.00063825
Balkan:Macedonian_average,0.1234982,0.142851,0.027 0897,-0.0048988,0.0265692,-0.0016735,0.0021542,0.0006922,-0.0004092,0.007654,-0.0000272,-0.0004497,-0.000768,0.0067208,-0.0148163,0.0015688,0.0118215,0.0004647,0.007144,-0.0046895,-0.0078197,0.002102,0.0057927,-0.0000402,-0.0041313
Palestinian/Jewish,0.08970675,0.15220263,-0.04970895,-0.08630155,-0.00821318,-0.02909195,-0.00308430,-0.00400938,0.01374138,0.01814400,0.00735825,-0.00407470,0.00702445,0.00651988,-0.00855050,0.00501358,-0.00108388,0.00259705,0.00276545,0.00053945,-0.00321313,0.00803751,0.00093205,0.00186763,0.0012 6450
Scandinavian,0.13387755,0.12812600,0.07000080,0.05 487155,0.03977280,0.02123570,0.00562880,0.00779640 ,0.00531760,-0.00310225,-0.00426855,0.00259765,-0.00608450,-0.00776585,0.01803785,0.00670525,-0.00632675,0.00230450,0.00208300,0.00281375,0.0063 5490,0.00392150,0.00270265,0.01419580,0.00005980
Slav:A,0.13138390,0.12667805,0.06910955,0.05764665 ,0.03918105,0.02150315,0.00872160,0.01108490,-0.00191195,-0.01982615,-0.00299075,-0.00703905,0.01422465,0.02013115,-0.00912990,-0.00082800,0.00311790,-0.00038630,0.00264685,0.00149370,-0.00381375,-0.00329875,0.00617250,-0.00369530,0.00031705
SSA:A,-0.55687967,0.06753267,0.00828100,-0.00197833,-0.00047466,-0.00003500,-0.01680300,0.02377800,0.01856900,-0.02692533,-0.00502067,0.00591333,-0.01327400,0.00153100,-0.00610700,0.00092800,0.00531300,-0.00194267,0.00208467,-0.00411667,0.00054600,-0.00162833,-0.00365633,-0.00061267,0.00158167
SSA:B,-0.6242421,0.0639936,0.0215130,0.0145326,0.0028094, 0.0117579,-0.0161961,0.0216721,-0.0308661,0.0149323,0.0037054,0.0018871,-0.0006642,0.0019913,-0.0064682,0.0041677,-0.0048993,0.0149827,-0.0066659,0.0019943,0.0010692,0.0020188,0.0011803, 0.0001642,0.0012754
Turkic,0.08279575,-0.04872655,-0.00773435,-0.00521585,-0.04090210,-0.00345510,0.00827315,0.00604885,-0.01586195,-0.01025075,-0.00767745,-0.00170265,0.00110940,-0.00557500,0.00308635,0.00607450,-0.00259560,0.00098765,-0.00011860,-0.00280345,-0.00721875,-0.00283710,-0.00430805,-0.00055895,0.00290500
Turkish,0.09640925,0.06378650,-0.02045625,-0.03320250,-0.02308875,-0.01185625,0.00550450,-0.00071725,-0.01859325,-0.00091900,-0.00156250,0.00106575,-0.00297950,0.00045875,-0.00413350,0.00206750,0.00507075,0.00100425,0.0012 1175,-0.00008175,-0.00320775,0.00049575,-0.00238325,0.00046100,0.00063825
Yemenite,0.05174190,0.13874660,-0.06566620,-0.11837600,-0.00721070,-0.05182340,-0.01121515,-0.00798695,0.06050780,-0.00232075,0.01483365,-0.03200295,0.06152495,0.00486465,0.00592640,0.0233 3400,-0.02076730,0.00343125,0.00063025,0.02348350,0.0122 1305,0.01540175,-0.01090055,0.00567000,-0.00689545
Balkan:Albania+Macedonian_average,0.1208423,0.1423 011,0.021323,-0.0103898,0.0258639,-0.0045437,0.0027613,0.00125,0.0001278,0.011891,0.0 005413,0.0005495,-0.0039333,0.0066634,-0.0170557,-0.0012928,0.0099744,0.000982,0.0077201,-0.0053149,-0.0066913,0.0014116,0.0041083,0.0010795,-0.0033281
Central_African:Sudanese+Dinka,-0.5775005,0.0526722,0.0013323,-0.006242,-0.0040058,-0.0018036,-0.0139344,0.0170878,0.0772641,-0.0934263,-0.019959,0.0223263,-0.0376471,-0.0007547,0.0088819,-0.0184831,0.0183071,-0.0104032,0.0218107,-0.0212966,0.0008642,0.0039951,-0.0009284,-0.0012872,0.0066699
CentralAsian:Turkmen4,0.08279575,-0.04872655,-0.00773435,-0.00521585,-0.04090210,-0.00345510,0.00827315,0.00604885,-0.01586195,-0.01025075,-0.00767745,-0.00170265,0.00110940,-0.00557500,0.00308635,0.00607450,-0.00259560,0.00098765,-0.00011860,-0.00280345,-0.00721875,-0.00283710,-0.00430805,-0.00055895,0.00290500
CentralAsian:Kazakh3,0.0665865,-0.2208775,0.0475175,-0.0082365,-0.0329290,-0.0149205,0.0126910,0.0124610,-0.0087945,0.0023695,-0.0215165,-0.0026975,-0.0034190,-0.0008945,0.0006105,0.0034475,0.0044330,0.0001900,-0.0029540,0.0066905,-0.0124160,-0.0060590,-0.0080110,0.0012655,-0.0011380
CentralAsian:Uzbek2,0.0745540,-0.1066305,-0.0079195,0.0113050,-0.0363145,0.0034860,0.0052875,0.0014995,-0.0152370,-0.0084740,-0.0168070,-0.0059195,0.0058720,-0.0058490,0.0039355,0.0049060,-0.0074970,0.0022805,0.0006285,-0.0045645,-0.0089220,-0.0027205,-0.0036970,-0.0023495,0.0019760
CentralAsian:Tajik1,0.0882130,0.0187875,-0.0337525,0.0179265,-0.0415460,0.0145025,0.0068155,0.0003465,-0.0285310,-0.0217770,-0.0071450,0.0035220,-0.0055005,-0.0106655,0.0108575,0.0083535,-0.0011085,-0.0011405,0.0002515,-0.0090665,-0.0084225,-0.0001855,0.0022185,0.0007835,0.0030535
Chinese_and_Vietnamese:Guizhou+Hunan,0.0175621,-0.4495462,-0.0283127,-0.06706,0.1094813,0.0507666,-0.0002504,-0.0077922,-0.0172462,-0.0093943,-0.018801,-0.0049517,0.0043134,-0.006977,-0.0028555,0.0013078,0.0025359,-0.0008778,-0.0025027,-0.0120425,0.014891,0.0071037,0.0163572,-0.0010603,0.0012949
Chinese_and_Vietnamese:Han_Shandong+Han_Shanghai+H an_Henan,0.02574093,-0.44672400,0.00416373,-0.06463350,0.05351190,0.02476773,0.00551737,0.0020 7600,-0.01316077,0.00126697,-0.07530797,-0.01189107,0.01126457,-0.00655843,-0.00550930,0.00257083,0.00261210,0.00151403,0.0006 5540,-0.00996537,0.01280200,0.00725607,0.01069883,-0.00123393,-0.00250313
Slav:Russian+Belarusian,0.13119282,0.11441266,0.07 595197,0.0684007,0.03622404,0.02491509,0.010711,0. 01310470,-0.00143407,-0.02581,-0.00098054,-0.00889098,0.01865119,0.02380024,-0.01107937,-0.00297275,0.00002045,-0.00025557,0.00211417,0.00006978,-0.00253295,-0.00431923,0.00640435,-0.00531757,-0.0001691
Slav:Polish+Ukrainian,0.13138390,0.12667805,0.0691 0955,0.05764665,0.03918105,0.02150315,0.00872160,0 .01108490,-0.00191195,-0.01982615,-0.00299075,-0.00703905,0.01422465,0.02013115,-0.00912990,-0.00082800,0.00311790,-0.00038630,0.00264685,0.00149370,-0.00381375,-0.00329875,0.00617250,-0.00369530,0.00031705
Slav:Russia+Ukrania,0.1310153,0.1214563,0.0711987, 0.0603063,0.0356400,0.0220150,0.0089957,0.0116723,-0.0034180,-0.0234717,-0.0007067,-0.0075860,0.0157850,0.0231097,-0.0123050,-0.0018747,0.0027710,-0.0005210,0.0028207,0.0022073,-0.0037993,-0.0040860,0.0049800,-0.0048143,-0.0007887
Eskimo:Eskimo+EskimoChaplin+EskimoNaukan+EskimoSir eniki,0.0466149,-0.3688403,0.1187765,0.0399512,-0.1213249,-0.0441851,-0.0979141,-0.111901,0.0066266,-0.0124769,0.030207,-0.0045295,0.009208,-0.0185154,-0.033596,-0.0153971,-0.0032999,0.0167186,0.0371127,0.0203858,0.02997,-0.0514784,0.0093826,0.0270206,0.040713
Indonesian:Bali+Java,0.0106221,-0.3986474,-0.0812927,-0.0322972,0.1412676,0.0622616,-0.0047389,-0.0120334,-0.010409,-0.0188626,0.0828474,0.0076368,-0.0088529,0.0050521,0.0059755,0.0022143,-0.001228,-0.0009977,0.0012898,0.0094298,-0.0133561,0.0012463,-0.0118502,0.0009681,0.0161695
Malay:Malay+Kadar,0.0108985,-0.2706131,-0.1287679,0.0524638,0.033837,0.0542722,-0.0043064,0.004344,0.0358173,0.0190254,0.0301963,0 .0031173,-0.0040176,0.0072631,-0.0073358,-0.0083531,0.0043775,-0.0002788,0.0001288,0.0126843,-0.0014381,0.0025844,-0.0071392,0.0014279,-0.0034789
Filipino:Luzon+Vizayan,0.0119515,-0.418398,-0.058831,-0.0434435,0.1317165,0.0489455,-0.005405,-0.0102685,-0.0150325,-0.0164015,0.0457935,0.0046455,-0.0032705,-0.0020645,0.010315,0.0057675,-0.006845,0.0050045,0.006788,-0.009567,0.000312,-0.0284405,-0.003143,-0.0042175,-0.050714
Finnish:Finnish+FinnishEast,0.128582,0.083663,0.09 2565,0.078958,0.029816,0.023622,0.008876,0.014773, 0.004196,-0.026607,0.004236,-0.007461,0.015216,0.005767,0.001455,-0.002047,-0.006585,0.000171,-0.000392,0.004094,0.007928,0.001223,0.002531,0.005 306,0.003258
Amerindian:Surui+Karitiana,0.0583155,-0.3187578,0.1177434,0.1075438,-0.113734,-0.0145071,-0.32444,-0.3870877,-0.0164609,-0.019059,0.0015129,-0.0036867,0.000342,0.0315914,-0.00903,0.0025016,0.0109589,0.0006777,0.0001781,0. 0004607,-0.0045377,0.011782,-0.0061622,-0.0049885,-0.0079674


Target: Pedro_scaled
Distance: 1.5474% / 0.01547414 | ADC: 0.25x RC
86.1 Iberian_Peninsula
6.7 MiddleEast
4.1 Finnish
1.4 Central_African
1.3 SSA
0.4 Amerindian

Target: Dad_scaled
Distance: 1.4560% / 0.01456011 | ADC: 0.25x RC
82.1 Iberian_Peninsula
8.9 Berber
6.5 Slav
2.1 SSA
0.4 Eskimo

Target: Mom_scaled
Distance: 1.4781% / 0.01478120 | ADC: 0.25x RC
88.4 Iberian_Peninsula
8.8 English
2.8 Central_African

Luso
01-26-2021, 04:46 PM
We tried to make a proxy for NW_Iberia_IA (with Ruderico´s indications and guide) , you could try it instead of the reference East_Iberia_IA.(Don´t know if it will work well).

Those were the different options I´ve made.

NWIberia_IA_scaled:proxyD,0.1274817,0.1394662,0.06 86987,0.0266475,0.0514453,0.0038117,0.0001958,0.00 24233,0.0210317,0.0249663,-0.008742,-0.0005495,-0.0119425,-0.0024312,0.0099528,-0.0008615,-0.0067583,0.0014782,0.0031843,0.0051277,0.0034525, 0.0021022,-0.0027732,-0.0075508,-0.0043508
NWIberia_IA_scaled:proxyC,0.1248257,0.1458977,0.06 44873,0.0163653,0.0532407,0.0041837,-0.00188,0.0037693,0.0243383,0.031466,-0.0055753,0.005945,-0.0168483,-0.0067433,0.0120337,-0.0031377,-0.011604,0.001858,0.0018853,0.000042,0.0087763,0.0 03586,-0.0062033,-0.0098403,-0.005828
NWIberia_IA_scaled:proxyB,0.1269125,0.140397,0.067 7873,0.0228523,0.0530868,0.0036955,-0.000705,0.0029425,0.022293,0.027472,-0.0071045,0.0017985,-0.0131938,-0.0039565,0.010145,-0.0006295,-0.0071385,0.0013303,0.0023568,0.0036583,0.0046483, 0.002164,-0.0038515,-0.0086153,-0.00479
NWIberia_IA_scaled:proxyA,0.124636,0.1472518,0.064 2045,0.0188148,0.0508555,0.004602,-0.0011163,0.003404,0.023469,0.0297045,-0.007267,0.0044963,-0.0167988,-0.0058488,0.0126898,-0.0047398,-0.0132665,0.0023438,0.002891,0.000438,0.0090468,0. 0042043,-0.0057618,-0.0088563,-0.0056883

Suposedly, A and C are the best ones.

obrigado :)

con tres:

Target: Luso_scaled
Distance: 2.7734% / 0.02773433
49.6 NWIberia_IA_scaled:proxyA
42.0 CHE_IA
8.4 MAR_Taforalt

con cinco:

Target: Luso_scaled
Distance: 2.0891% / 0.02089066
72.8 NWIberia_IA_scaled:proxyA
20.8 ITA_Rome_Imperial
6.4 MAR_Taforalt

Ruderico
01-26-2021, 05:38 PM
Personalmente evito usar la muestra de Suiza, tengo dudas que represente algo en Iberia prerromana porque parece demasiado oriental para aquí. Igual a los de Italia.

Alexander87
01-26-2021, 06:02 PM
Colombian mother

Target: Mom_scaled
Distance: 1.4587% / 0.01458661 | R5P
37.0 Iberian_Peninsula:North4
25.8 Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest4
18.4 Amerindian:Surui+Karitiana
8.4 Palestinian/Jewish
7.4 Berber:n7
3.0 SSA:B

Target: Mom_scaled
Distance: 1.4587% / 0.01458661 | R5P
62.8 Iberian_Peninsula
18.4 Amerindian
8.4 Palestinian/Jewish
7.4 Berber
3.0 SSA
Decent breakdown. My mom’s known ancestry is from Northern Iberia and this nails the area relatively well. The Iberian regions included in north4 seem to be pais vasco and Navarra, and in northwest4 Cantabria and Asturias. Looking at the Palestinian/Jewish component, I feel it’s so high cause there is some EEF included with the Levantine sample. So taking it out my mom gets this

Target: Mom_scaled
Distance: 1.5027% / 0.01502653 | R5P
66.4 Iberian_Peninsula
18.4 Amerindian
6.4 Yemenite
5.8 Berber
3.0 SSA
Same refrences for Iberian and Berber but I think this is more accurate for a breakdown. I have to say this is one of the better calculators I’ve come across. Great job! Also if people can show the non aggregated version of their results so we can see what region of Iberia you get that would be much appreciated.

mokordo
01-26-2021, 06:14 PM
Personalmente evito usar la muestra de Suiza, tengo dudas que represente algo en Iberia prerromana porque parece demasiado oriental para aquí. Igual a los de Italia.

Era por añadir una referencia antigua alejada del Mediterráneo. Era una muestra individual asignada a la cultura de la Téne, que contribuyó (supuestamente) a la expansión cultural celta, y que también se extendió por la península Ibérica, especialmente en el noroeste.

Esto sigue sin actualizar, supongo:

https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/ancient-human-dna_41837#5/45.905/-8.481

Edit:dislexia.

Ruderico
01-26-2021, 06:26 PM
Era por añadir una referencia antigua alejada del Mediterráneo. Era una muestra individual asignada a la cultura de la Téne, que contribuyó (supuestamente) a la expansión cultural celta, y que también se extendió por la península Ibérica, especialmente en el noroeste.

Esto sigue sin actualizar, supongo:

https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/ancient-human-dna_41837#5/45.905/-8.481

Edit:dislexia.

No sé si SX18 era un Celta La Tène o no, pero la influencia La Tène en Iberia fue indirecta y tardía, los nuestros Celtas deberían ser originalmente Hallstatt. Esta muestra va a reducir o eliminar el aporte Romano.


Edit:
https://i.postimg.cc/vB3bx7Fp/la-tene.png

Solo en Cataluña.

mokordo
01-26-2021, 11:24 PM
No sé si SX18 era un Celta La Tène o no, pero la influencia La Tène en Iberia fue indirecta y tardía, los nuestros Celtas deberían ser originalmente Hallstatt. Esta muestra va a reducir o eliminar el aporte Romano.


Edit:
https://i.postimg.cc/vB3bx7Fp/la-tene.png

Solo en Cataluña.

Me refería a la cultura Celta en el noroeste, no específicamente La Téne. La frase es bastante ambigua en eso supongo.

De todas formas, La Tène es la "continuación" de Hallstat, y encima en este caso justo en el mismo área donde tuvo su origen Hallstat, así que tampoco tendrían demasiada diferencia genética.

Peores referencias descontextualizadas y menos precisas históricamente damos por válidas.

Aquí tenemos algo interesante para todo esto de muestras Ibéricas peninsulares, no tiene mucha profundidad, pero puede ayudar para tener más claro las cosas:

http://atlasnacional.ign.es/wane/Discusi%C3%B3n:Prehistoria

Y mapas antiguos del Instituto Geográfico Nacional:

http://www.ign.es/web/catalogo-cartoteca/apibadasid/cartoteca/searchbyObraMadre/9391

mokordo
01-26-2021, 11:30 PM
Esta es la versión de 1490 del desaparecido original de Ptolomeo, en este caso el mapa de la península Ibérica:

http://www2.ign.es/MapasAbsysJPG/92-1(0086-mapa-bn).jpg

JJJ
01-26-2021, 11:50 PM
Esta es la versión de 1490 del desaparecido original de Ptolomeo, en este caso el mapa de la península Ibérica:

http://www2.ign.es/MapasAbsysJPG/92-1(0086-mapa-bn).jpg

Lo hizo a mano y sufría de parkinson, no culpar.

Ruderico
01-26-2021, 11:56 PM
De todas formas, La Tène es la "continuación" de Hallstat, y encima en este caso justo en el mismo área donde tuvo su origen Hallstat, así que tampoco tendrían demasiada diferencia genética.



Nadie sabe si esto es verdad o no, ni siquiera sabemos de onde son originarios los primeros celtas. Bueno, tampoco importa, la influencia genética oriental (norte o sur) solo parece ter llegado a Iberia durante o después del periodo Romano. Antes eran todos diferentes tipos de BBs, unos con más influencia de las estepas (más "norteños"), otros menos (más "sureños").