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Ruderico
02-08-2019, 03:35 PM
Hola, chicos!


I will be posting in english since it's easier for me to do so without butchering grammar too much, and also because it opens the topic to whoever might be interested in contributing and discussing. I was interested in making a simple study about the variation of different sources of ancestry within non-Basque Iberian populations, so I made a simple model in nMonte3 using regular/unscaled G25 coordinates with the standard penalty, as advised by Huijbregts. Some people prefer scaled coordinates, but I'm sticking to my guns.

I'm not striving for exact ancestry proportions, but rather on how these vary across the peninsula. There are multiple ways of making these models, I decided to go by populations from around the Iron and Bronze Ages, however since there are no IA samples form Iberia avaliable, I used a few others as proxies. I'm not dogmatic about the model choice, if you feel these populations should be changed, and a few others added feel free to give your input or post your own models (G25 unscaled, pen=0.001). I'll make a quick explanation of why I used these references before moving on to the results.


Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1 - Since Ryu's report about the Italian study placed the bulk of Imperial Roman samples around modern day South Italians/Sicilians/Greeks, I'm using these individuals as a proxy for Imperial Roman ancestry. It might not be perfect, but it should be close enough for its purpose;
Hallstatt_Bylany - Proxy for Celtic-like ancestry in Iberia, I'm keeping this reference for the bulk of Steppe-related ancestry in the model. I'm not expecting pre-Roman Iberians to be exactly like Hallstatt Celts of the Czech Republic, so I'll add something else to compensate;
Iberia_Central_CA - So I chose this one. I suppose any Bronze Age Iberian samples without Steppe ancestry would work too, but for some reason I'm getting slightly better fits with this one, hence my choice. I'd wager Hallstatt+Iberia_CA to represent pre-Roman ancestry in Iberia without extra Mediterranean ancestry;
Levant_BA_North - Proxy for Levantine ancestry, it's more recent and contains higher Armenia_EBA (which I won't be using in the model) ancestry than Levant_BA_South;
Iberomaurusian - I was actually really torn between using this or the Guanche11 sample. The latter is identical to modern Moroccans, but would probably make a lot of sense given it's dated from the 8th century. However it contains Steppe and EEF ancestry, and as a consequence Guanche11 score would vary depending on the other references. I decided to use Iberomaurusian simply because it's a North African-specific source of ancestry and and not related to other groups at all.


As I said, I'm not dogmatic about this choice of references, it's just a way to start.

Below are the results for different regions of the peninsula. Keep in mind that some/most references were built with only 3 or 4 samples, so it's best not to take the results too literally. Besides there's personal variation to account for, and so few references doesn't do it enough justice.



[1] "distance%=1.3894"

Portuguese

Hallstatt_Bylany,55.8
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,24.8
Iberia_Central_CA,15
Iberomaurusian,4.4



[1] "distance%=1.6827"

Spanish_Galicia

Hallstatt_Bylany,54.8
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,20.6
Iberia_Central_CA,17.6
Iberomaurusian,4
Levant_BA_North,3



[1] "distance%=1.2435"

Spanish_Extremadura

Hallstatt_Bylany,55.4
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,21.4
Iberia_Central_CA,16
Iberomaurusian,4.4
Levant_BA_North,2.8



[1] "distance%=1.5468"

Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon

Hallstatt_Bylany,65.6
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,16.6
Iberia_Central_CA,13.2
Iberomaurusian,4.2
Levant_BA_North,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.3953"

Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha

Hallstatt_Bylany,60.4
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,18.8
Iberia_Central_CA,17.2
Iberomaurusian,1.8
Levant_BA_North,1.8



[1] "distance%=1.4491"

Spanish_Andalucia

Hallstatt_Bylany,56.8
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,24.8
Iberia_Central_CA,15.8
Iberomaurusian,2.6



[1] "distance%=1.8151"

Spanish_Cantabria

Hallstatt_Bylany,63.6
Iberia_Central_CA,20
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,14.6
Iberomaurusian,1.8



[1] "distance%=0.9897"

Spanish_Murcia

Hallstatt_Bylany,53.6
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,23
Iberia_Central_CA,18.8
Iberomaurusian,2.4
Levant_BA_North,2.2



[1] "distance%=2.1694"

Spanish_Valencia

Hallstatt_Bylany,66.2
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,14.8
Iberia_Central_CA,13.6
Levant_BA_North,3.4
Iberomaurusian,2



[1] "distance%=1.4463"

Spanish_Cataluna

Hallstatt_Bylany,63
Iberia_Central_CA,17.6
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,17
Iberomaurusian,2.4



[1] "distance%=1.6205"

Spanish_Aragon

Hallstatt_Bylany,61.8
Iberia_Central_CA,18.6
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,17
Iberomaurusian,2.6



[1] "distance%=1.4115"

Spanish_Baleares

Hallstatt_Bylany,57
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,28.4
Iberia_Central_CA,13.6
Iberomaurusian,1



[1] "distance%=1.8168"

Spanish_Canarias

Hallstatt_Bylany,54.8
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,21.2
Iberia_Central_CA,15.2
Iberomaurusian,7.8
Levant_BA_North,1



Guess that some people are scoring Levant_BA_N by getting a lower amount of Collegno (or the other way around), so I'm not too happy about this choice in particular, it might not be very useful to begin with.
Hallstatt seems to be highest in the north and dropping as you move away - although I suspect some "Basque effect" might be in play, as they would score high Hallstatt aswell, but because of higher HG ancestry, not necessarily Steppe-related one.
On the other hand the Roman proxy is clearly higher in the south, and around coastal areas, the Baleares in particular seem to score a very high amount of it.
And finally, as expected, North African-specific ancestry is higher in the West, and gradually lowers as you move East.

A simplistic analysis indicates the Portuguese reference as perhaps the least autochthonous of the bunch, increasing as you move close to the north/northeast, although as you'll see below personal variation rules a simple scenario out of the window. It may be a trend, but hardly a rule.



Edit: Made a list with Colegno+Levant_BA_North for all the above regions
Portugal 24,8
Galicia 23,6
Extremadura 24,2
Castilla y León 17,0
Castilla La Mancha 20,6
Andalucia 24,8
Cantabria 14,6
Murcia 25,2
Valencia 18,2
Catalonia 17,0
Aragón 14,0
Baleares 28,4
Canarias 22,2

Same, but with the supposed pre-Roman references (Hallstatt+Iberia)
Portugal 70,8
Galicia 72,4
Extremadura 71,4
Castilla y León 78,8
Castilla La Mancha 77,6
Andalucia 72,6
Cantabria 83,6
Murcia 72,4
Valencia 79,8
Catalonia 80,6
Aragón 80,4
Baleares 70,6
Canarias 70,0





Below I'll post a few results for Portuguese forum members and relatives, just for fun. If you are Iberian and want to be added, just post your G25 unscaled coordinates.
For reference:
Ruderico - North-centre
MrsRuderico - East (next to Extremadura)
rxavierflima - Northwest
elisabetenjoaquim - West
Lusitano - Centre



[1] "distance%=2.4744"

Ruderico

Hallstatt_Bylany,67.2
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,15.8
Iberia_Central_CA,13
Iberomaurusian,3.8
Levant_BA_North,0.2



[1] "distance%=1.886"

MrsRuderico

Hallstatt_Bylany,58.2
Iberia_Central_CA,19.2
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,15.4
Iberomaurusian,5.8
Levant_BA_North,1.4



[1] "distance%=2.0812"

rxavierflima

Hallstatt_Bylany,60.6
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,24.6
Iberia_Central_CA,10.8
Iberomaurusian,4



[1] "distance%=1.4475"

elisabetenjoaquim

Hallstatt_Bylany,65.4
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,15.6
Iberia_Central_CA,9.8
Iberomaurusian,4.6
Levant_BA_North,4.6



[1] "distance%=2.0187"

Lusitano

Hallstatt_Bylany,62.2
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,21.6
Iberia_Central_CA,11.6
Iberomaurusian,4.6

Edit2: Same Collegno+Levant_BA_North as above
Ruderico 16,0
MrsRuderico 16,8
rxavierflima 24,6
elisabetenjoaquim 20,2
Lusitano 21,6

And Hallstatt+Iberia
Ruderico 80,2
MrsRuderico 77,4
rxavierflima 71,4
elisabetenjoaquim 75,2
Lusitano 73,8

hartaisarlag
02-08-2019, 04:29 PM
Can you refer me to a source (or give a quick summary) of regional population genetic differences within Portugal? Familiar with the situation across the border, but knowledge of inter-regional differences in Portugal might clear up some issues I’m having modeling crypto-Jews from Trás-is-Montes.

Ruderico
02-08-2019, 04:48 PM
Can you refer me to a source (or give a quick summary) of regional population genetic differences within Portugal? Familiar with the situation across the border, but knowledge of inter-regional differences in Portugal might clear up some issues I’m having modeling crypto-Jews from Trás-is-Montes.

Unfortunetly we don't have such information, eyeballing though various results from Gedmatch calculators is very difficult to establish any form of regional variation because you find people with ancestry from roughly the same region with "very different" results. It may be that personal variation is more important than regional variation (although to be fair I haven't seem results explicitly from the south of the country).
This seems to be in line with PCA plots in which Portugal and Spain have a very large overlap (https://www.ancestrycdn.com/dna/static/images/ethnicity/help/PCA.jpg), it appears Portugal despite its small size holds a fair degree of internal variation. For example, as you can see my result is virtually the same as the Castilla y León reference. My ancestry centroid is relatively close to that of rxavierflima's (we even have ancestors from the same parish), except more eastern. Similarly my missus place of origin is not too far from Lusitano's, yet our results are nothing alike.

Xavier and I have been trying to persuade more people into getting their G25 coordinates, so we could try to spot regional differences, but so far we've been unsuccesful

Ruderico
02-08-2019, 07:14 PM
To put things in prespective I decided to make a few G25 scatter plots with different datasets, just to see how each group (and individuals) change their relative position as the dataset has additional references.

Each group will have its unique colour, which I'll list below. Individuals will be easier to spot because they'll have their name standing next to their symbol.

Basques - darkblue
French_South - darkblue
Pais Vasco - green
Portuguese - mediumblue
Andalucia - darkgreen
Aragon - orangered
Baleares - yellow
Canarias - lime
Cantabria - saddlebrown
Castilla La Mancha - gold
Castilla y León - purple
Catalonia - crimson
Extremadura - black
Galicia - skyblue
Murcia - olive
Valencia - orange

I'll start off with a scatterplot exclusively with Iberian populations, just for future reference.

https://i.postimg.cc/JR9WHFmb/Iberia.png




Next we'll add North African populations, to check who gets pulled the most. Since the scatter plot will make the Iberian cluster smaller and thus harder to read, you can see a zoomed image here (https://i.postimg.cc/PrCY9JCv/Iberia-na-zoom.png).
As expected from the previous model, Canarians and West Iberians get to plot closer to North African populations than the rest. One Portuguese sample seems to be pulled as much or more than Canarians, for some reason.
https://i.postimg.cc/TGp1bzvs/Iberia-na.png



The following scatter plot includes (north)West Europeans and all Italian populations (including Sardinians).
The mediterranean cline is easily spotted, with South and West Iberians being more affected by it. Here's the zoomed scatter plot (https://i.postimg.cc/ZZxmCjCQ/Iberia-weuro-zoom.png)
https://i.postimg.cc/3Y93b9hG/Iberia-weuro.png



And finally the standard scatter plot with all European populations, which you're probably already used to see.
Once again you can see the zoomed version (https://i.postimg.cc/vbyBwt47/Iberia-europe-zoom.png).
https://i.postimg.cc/BJs1NG50/Iberia-europe.png




As I said in the previous post, the Portuguese references seem to harbour quite a bit of variation between them, which is kind of unexpected for a small country. The similar thing might happen with the Spanish regions, but unfortunetly G25 doesn't have enough samples to confirm it

rxavierflima
02-08-2019, 10:56 PM
Bom trabalho!

Há uma coisa que não percebo segundo o teu modelo: o que me faz tender para a Itália é ter mais Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1 mas o que é faz elisabete tender para a França? Não é ter Hallstatt_Bylany mais alta por si só porque tu tens ainda mais. Pelo que percebo é ter também bastante Levant_BA_North em comparação com os outros. Mas isso dá a entender que o que separa os franceses dos portugueses é o facto dos primeiros terem mais sangue do médio oriente, o que nao me parece correcto. Isto é o tal problema de passar 25 eixos para 2?

Ruderico
02-09-2019, 07:03 AM
É possível, mas também acho que o modelo inicial é demasiado simples para fazer essa distinção, ja que tanto a Elisabete como eu temos valores altos de Hallstatt, mas ela tende para França enquanto que eu para o Norte de Espanha. Já a minha namorada plota relativamente perto de mim e tem menos 20%..

Penso que o mais útil deste modelo é ver como as referências usadas como proxy variam ao longo da península, especialmente as do Norte de África e Romana, mas ainda assim se calhar o modelo precisava de ser aperfeiçoado. Com tempo e novas samples lá chegaremos


Por falar em Romanos, há isto. As Baleares foram durante muito tempo parte do império romano, talvez explique terem tanto de Collegno
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Romancoloniae.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/Hispania_560_AD.PNG

etrusco
02-11-2019, 09:58 AM
Amigos


Sorry to post in English but at least since a couple of week I decided to learn Spanish ( by myself). I found this interesting article and I want to share with you.

http://elcorreoweb.es/cultura/un-arqueologo-sevillano-relaciona-la-escritura-tartesica-con-la-prehistoria-AC1136938?fbclid=IwAR3jr23ZizaSSp5D6vs-F5ozdB8IuoWzeOFWRtYzZ8OhVzWo5UBd5v0Gc5s

Saludos del milanesado!

Ruderico
02-12-2019, 01:55 PM
Bom trabalho!

Há uma coisa que não percebo segundo o teu modelo: o que me faz tender para a Itália é ter mais Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1 mas o que é faz elisabete tender para a França? Não é ter Hallstatt_Bylany mais alta por si só porque tu tens ainda mais. Pelo que percebo é ter também bastante Levant_BA_North em comparação com os outros. Mas isso dá a entender que o que separa os franceses dos portugueses é o facto dos primeiros terem mais sangue do médio oriente, o que nao me parece correcto. Isto é o tal problema de passar 25 eixos para 2?


I decided to pick up from here, because the previous model was indeed unable to distinguish between different sources of "northern" admixture.

Certain individuals or groups scored similar amounts of Hallstatt but plot in very different areas of the Iberian cluster with other European populations present - Elisabete plots on the border between Iberia and France, while I plot near Cantabria, closer to Basque individuals, just as an example. This is symptomatic of a higher degree of Northwestern/Central European ancestry in her, so I decided to get rid of the Iberia_Central_CA and replace it with a reference from a similar time period and region which already harbours steppe ancestry. So I went with the most obvious, Iberia_BA, which should have around half the amount of steppe ancestry as the Hallstatt reference, while having higher WHG and more affinity with Basques. I also got rid of the Levant_BA_North, as it was only occasionally appearing but always in small quantities. Just to test it, I preemptively ran Basque_Spanish, just to check it they indeed get a large chunk of Iberia_BA

[1] "distance%=1.2471"

Basque_Spanish

Iberia_BA,76.8
Hallstatt_Bylany,23.2




The model's fits improve a bit too, which is good. I'll remind everyone that the regional references were built few samples, so the results shouldn't be taken too literally.



[1] "distance%=1.1336"

Portuguese

Hallstatt_Bylany,37.8
Iberia_BA,34
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,23.8
Iberomaurusian,4.4



[1] "distance%=0.8771"

Spanish_Extremadura

Hallstatt_Bylany,35.8
Iberia_BA,35.6
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,24.2
Iberomaurusian,4.4



[1] "distance%=1.3905"

Spanish_Galicia

Iberia_BA,39.6
Hallstatt_Bylany,31.6
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,24.8
Iberomaurusian,4



[1] "distance%=1.3863"

Spanish_Cantabria

Iberia_BA,49.6
Hallstatt_Bylany,33.2
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,16.2
Iberomaurusian,1



[1] "distance%=1.2908"

Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon

Hallstatt_Bylany,45.2
Iberia_BA,30.8
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,19.8
Iberomaurusian,4.2



[1] "distance%=1.0367"

Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha

Iberia_BA,40.8
Hallstatt_Bylany,36
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,21.8
Iberomaurusian,1.4



[1] "distance%=1.1052"

Spanish_Andalucia

Iberia_BA,38
Hallstatt_Bylany,34.8
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,25
Iberomaurusian,2.2



[1] "distance%=0.6667"

Spanish_Murcia

Iberia_BA,39
Hallstatt_Bylany,34.4
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,24.4
Iberomaurusian,2.2



[1] "distance%=1.781"

Spanish_Valencia

Hallstatt_Bylany,40.6
Iberia_BA,40.4
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,17.6
Iberomaurusian,1.4



[1] "distance%=1.1052"

Spanish_Cataluna

Iberia_BA,40
Hallstatt_Bylany,37.8
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,20.2
Iberomaurusian,2



[1] "distance%=1.2159"

Spanish_Aragon

Iberia_BA,45.4
Hallstatt_Bylany,34.2
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,18.4
Iberomaurusian,2



[1] "distance%=1.2659"

Spanish_Baleares

Hallstatt_Bylany,39.8
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,30.2
Iberia_BA,29.4
Iberomaurusian,0.6



[1] "distance%=1.4812"

Spanish_Canarias

Iberia_BA,38.6
Hallstatt_Bylany,30.6
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,22.8
Iberomaurusian,8


And below, on a separate group, the same individual Portuguese samples as before. You can check the G25 PCA plot again here (https://i.postimg.cc/vbyBwt47/Iberia-europe-zoom.png)
Again, for reference:
Ruderico - North-centre
MrsRuderico - East (next to Extremadura)
rxavierflima - Northwest
elisabetenjoaquim - West
Lusitano - Centre



[1] "distance%=2.2305"

Ruderico

Hallstatt_Bylany,43.4
Iberia_BA,34.4
Roman_Collegno_o1,18.4
Iberomaurusian,3.8



[1] "distance%=1.6532"

MrsRuderico

Iberia_BA,42.2
Hallstatt_Bylany,33.2
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,18.8
Iberomaurusian,5.8



[1] "distance%=1.8313"

rxavierflima

Hallstatt_Bylany,41.6
Iberia_BA,30.8
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,23.4
Iberomaurusian,4.2



[1] "distance%=1.2707"

elisabetenjoaquim

Hallstatt_Bylany,48.8
Iberia_BA,23.6
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,23
Iberomaurusian,4.6



[1] "distance%=1.8386"

Lusitano

Hallstatt_Bylany,43.4
Iberia_BA,29.2
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,22.4
Iberomaurusian,5



Looking at the regional frequencies again, Hallstatt peaks in Castilla y León - although this component can be picking up more recent CEU ancestry than simply Hallstatt groups that moved into Iberia since the late Bronze/early Iron Ages. This makes sense, given it's where most of the Meseta is located, and it has been historically important in the process of IE influence in Iberia, notably Cogotas I (https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Antonio_Blanco-Gonzalez/publication/276167580/figure/fig2/AS:[email protected]/Colour-online-Spatial-representation-of-Cogotas-I-and-El-Argar-cultures-in-Iberia-as.png) and II (https://conocerespanablog.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/116464075.jpg), earlier Beaker influence (https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4EQZ4GMihEE/XFnxypUkaMI/AAAAAAAAizE/CGdqokaRS2oHeOmpAUFWrjh00APb4vpngCLcBGAs/s1600/Capture.JPG), although mostly on the Castilla area, closer to Aragón (https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RdjRIQo45xg/XFvKK5i7ATI/AAAAAAAAHi8/7yEfzHB4jMQHo6dtrkDylg044q4tykBRQCLcBGAs/s1600/Mapping_Beakers.jpg), and even later Celtiberian tribes (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/Mapa-celtiberos.svg/1024px-Mapa-celtiberos.svg.png), also on the easternmost areas.

Galicia scores relatively low, not totally unexpected as its process of Celtisation was late, and continued even by the time Romans were fighting Celtiberians further East. Although this could simply be the consequence of the very few samples avaliable. Also predictable that populations close to Basques scored high Iberia_BA, notably Cantabria.

rxavierflima
02-12-2019, 09:41 PM
Agora eu e a elisabete temos o mesmo de Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1. Talvez fosse melhor manter o Levant_BA_North por causa dela lol

Dito isto, acho que este modelo faz bem mais sentido!

rxavierflima
02-12-2019, 09:44 PM
Galicia scores relatively low, not totally unexpected as its process of Celtisation was late, and continued even by the time Romans were fighting Celtiberians further East. Although this could simply be the consequence of the very few samples avaliable. Also predictable that populations close to Basques scored high Iberia_BA, notably Cantabria.

Curioso. Então isto (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Celtic_nations_%2B_Galicia_and_Asturias_in_Eu rope_(bordered).svg) não tem razão de ser?


(Podes responder em inglês!)

Ruderico
02-13-2019, 10:43 AM
Agora eu e a elisabete temos o mesmo de Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1. Talvez fosse melhor manter o Levant_BA_North por causa dela lol

Dito isto, acho que este modelo faz bem mais sentido!

I'm not quite sure, in the previous model you both (aswell as Lusitano) had similar scores of "Collegno+Levant", in this model you all have roughly the same "Collegno" aswell, so it seems relatively accurate, although I should add that, were I to use Guanche11 instead of Iberomaurusian, the Collegno score would drop for everyone. For example:

[1] "distance%=1.7363"

rxavierflima

Hallstatt_Bylany,40
Iberia_BA,29
Roman_Collegno_o1,18.4
Guanche,12.6

So that's ~18.5% in this model VS ~23.5% in the previous one in your case. I can rerun this one, if people find it better, but the trends will still be the same, which is what I was looking for. On the other hand the missus and I score really low Collegno, but I guess that's not too unexpected when looking at the PCA plot, we're more western than any of you.
And Elisabete has an impressive Hallstatt score! I was expecting her to have a lot, but not nearly 50%.

Don't know if there's any regional shenanigans being responsible for this, or if it's just each of us having our own personal variation. It's tempting to say people from the interior might tend to score lower Collegno, but these are too few samples to make a proper case..besides my missus' family is from a village some 10km away from northern Extremadura, but their regional results are pretty different, so maybe not.





Curioso. Então isto (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Celtic_nations_%2B_Galicia_and_Asturias_in_Eu rope_(bordered).svg) não tem razão de ser?


(Podes responder em inglês!)
Well that might be mostly a cultural thing, Celts were a culture (or language fmaily) moreso than an actual people, even England_IA and Hallstatt_Bylany appear to be pretty different (https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-optx810q0Ww/W6wo_3TtzTI/AAAAAAAAHP0/SBpyoC044r8yEr7xR_E7XidiMxUhIRABACLcBGAs/s1600/Prehistoric_Britain_%2526_Ireland_PCA.png). Whether that cultural connection is significant and deep, or rather something that was (re)developed ever since archaeology proved the Celtic connection (Celtic revival), I don't know. It might be a stretch, at least in the case of Asturias. Personally all these revival movements seem a bit forced to me

jeanL
02-13-2019, 11:03 AM
Lo de los Guanches bajando el porcentaje Romano es porque los Guanches son una mezcla Europea(Prob Romanos o Griegos)+Norte_African+Medio_Oriente (Fenicios o algo más).

[1] "distance%=3.6298"

Guanche:guanche2_scaled

Globular_Amphora,41.8
Iberomaurusian,22.7
Armenia_ChL,18.5
Anatolia_ChL,8.3
Yoruba,7.2
Clovis,1.4
Tanzania_Luxmanda_3000BP,0.1
Blatterhole_HG,0
Ethiopia_4500BP,0
Iberia_ChL,0
Malawi_Fingira_2500BP,0
South_Africa_2000BP,0
Yamnaya_Ukraine,0

[1] "distance%=3.3064"

Guanche:guanche8_scaled

Globular_Amphora,41.4
Anatolia_ChL,21.5
Iberomaurusian,16.5
Armenia_ChL,11.7
Yoruba,8.5
Clovis,0.4
Blatterhole_HG,0
Ethiopia_4500BP,0
Iberia_ChL,0
Malawi_Fingira_2500BP,0
South_Africa_2000BP,0
Tanzania_Luxmanda_3000BP,0
Yamnaya_Ukraine,0

[1] "distance%=2.7716"

Guanche:guanche12_scaled

Anatolia_ChL,31.1
Iberomaurusian,25.2
Iberia_ChL,18.3
Globular_Amphora,14.3
Yoruba,5.4
Tanzania_Luxmanda_3000BP,4.5
Yamnaya_Ukraine,1.2
Blatterhole_HG,0
Clovis,0
Ethiopia_4500BP,0
Malawi_Fingira_2500BP,0
South_Africa_2000BP,0
Armenia_ChL,0

PD: A mi me pueden responder en Portugues; Ingles o Español; me da igual.

Ruderico
02-13-2019, 11:21 AM
Lo de los Guanches bajando el porcentaje Romano es porque los Guanches son una mezcla Europea(Prob Romanos o Griegos)+Norte_African+Medio_Oriente (Fenicios o algo más).

[1] "distance%=3.6298"

Guanche:guanche2_scaled

Globular_Amphora,41.8
Iberomaurusian,22.7
Armenia_ChL,18.5
Anatolia_ChL,8.3
Yoruba,7.2
Clovis,1.4
Tanzania_Luxmanda_3000BP,0.1
Blatterhole_HG,0
Ethiopia_4500BP,0
Iberia_ChL,0
Malawi_Fingira_2500BP,0
South_Africa_2000BP,0
Yamnaya_Ukraine,0

[1] "distance%=3.3064"

Guanche:guanche8_scaled

Globular_Amphora,41.4
Anatolia_ChL,21.5
Iberomaurusian,16.5
Armenia_ChL,11.7
Yoruba,8.5
Clovis,0.4
Blatterhole_HG,0
Ethiopia_4500BP,0
Iberia_ChL,0
Malawi_Fingira_2500BP,0
South_Africa_2000BP,0
Tanzania_Luxmanda_3000BP,0
Yamnaya_Ukraine,0

[1] "distance%=2.7716"

Guanche:guanche12_scaled

Anatolia_ChL,31.1
Iberomaurusian,25.2
Iberia_ChL,18.3
Globular_Amphora,14.3
Yoruba,5.4
Tanzania_Luxmanda_3000BP,4.5
Yamnaya_Ukraine,1.2
Blatterhole_HG,0
Clovis,0
Ethiopia_4500BP,0
Malawi_Fingira_2500BP,0
South_Africa_2000BP,0
Armenia_ChL,0

PD: A mi me pueden responder en Portugues; Ingles o Español; me da igual.

Yes, they also lower the amount of references with steppe because Guanche11 himself/herself scored some 10% of it.

[1] "distance%=3.0651 / distance=0.030651"

Guanche:guanche11_scaled

Iberomaurusian 37.75
Barcin_N 36.80
Yamnaya_Samara 11.60
Levant_N 10.10
Yoruba 3.75


The reason I didn't use it initially because the uniquely NA source of ancestry is Iberomaurusian, so that alone would be enough to see the trend :)
Besides it looks suspiciously similar to Moroccan:MCA9, which I'm not sure is plausible. Guanche5 sample is a bit rubbish and unreliable, for example, so I played it safe

[1] "distance%=2.5308 / distance=0.025308"

Moroccan:MCA9

Iberomaurusian 40.6
Barcin_N 34.5
Levant_N 10.9
Yamnaya_Samara 9.7
Yoruba 4.3

Shadogowah
02-13-2019, 11:51 AM
Muy interesante y por lo demás acorde con lo que vamos descubriendo dado que la mayor parte de los mitos ya están bastante enterrados.

Por cierto que como español con un perfil genético bastante "aportuguesado" me gustaría saber donde me sitúa el gráfico.

Oficialmente sólo tengo un antepasado portugués (Sande) y el resto sobre el papel son todos andaluces pero sospecho que casi todas las ramas provienen originariamente del tercio occidental de Iberia: Galicia, Asturias, Leon, Portugal y Extremadura.

Ruderico
02-13-2019, 12:45 PM
Muy interesante y por lo demás acorde con lo que vamos descubriendo dado que la mayor parte de los mitos ya están bastante enterrados.

Por cierto que como español con un perfil genético bastante "aportuguesado" me gustaría saber donde me sitúa el gráfico.

Oficialmente sólo tengo un antepasado portugués (Sande) y el resto sobre el papel son todos andaluces pero sospecho que casi todas las ramas provienen originariamente del tercio occidental de Iberia: Galicia, Asturias, Leon, Portugal y Extremadura.

Se estás realmente interessado em estar plotado nestes PCAs, e conhecer os teus resultados nestes modelos (ou outros), só tens de pedir as tuas coordenadas Global 25 ao Davidski, do Eurogenes (http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/10/genetic-ancestry-online-store-to-be.html). Penso que o preço seja 12USD aproximadamente. O nMonte e PAST3 são freeware e simlpes de usar.

Pessoalmente penso que o preço é justo para o potencial de modelação que esta ferramenta tem. No entanto, como podes ver pelos modelos individuais, os teus resultados podem ser diferentes da referencia Andaluza. O meu é virtualmente igual ao de Castilla y León, a minha família é essencialmente do Douro e da Beira Alta (https://anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=28618&d=1548426156)


Há mais users Espanhóis aqui no Anthrogenica que têm as suas coordenadas do Global 25 (TeneTana, Rabai, etc), mas como não as conheço, infelizmente não pude modelar nem plotar no gráfico



Edit: Sande? Pode ser topónimo. A minha linhagem materna é de Sande, em Marco de Canaveses (ano ~1750)
Edit2: Hum...provavelmente não. https://pt.geneanet.org/nomes-de-familia/SANDE

Shadogowah
02-13-2019, 02:36 PM
Se estás realmente interessado em estar plotado nestes PCAs, e conhecer os teus resultados nestes modelos (ou outros), só tens de pedir as tuas coordenadas Global 25 ao Davidski, do Eurogenes (http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/10/genetic-ancestry-online-store-to-be.html). Penso que o preço seja 12USD aproximadamente. O nMonte e PAST3 são freeware e simlpes de usar.

Pessoalmente penso que o preço é justo para o potencial de modelação que esta ferramenta tem. No entanto, como podes ver pelos modelos individuais, os teus resultados podem ser diferentes da referencia Andaluza. O meu é virtualmente igual ao de Castilla y León, a minha família é essencialmente do Douro e da Beira Alta (https://anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=28618&d=1548426156)


Há mais users Espanhóis aqui no Anthrogenica que têm as suas coordenadas do Global 25 (TeneTana, Rabai, etc), mas como não as conheço, infelizmente não pude modelar nem plotar no gráfico



Edit: Sande? Pode ser topónimo. A minha linhagem materna é de Sande, em Marco de Canaveses (ano ~1750)
Edit2: Hum...provavelmente não. https://pt.geneanet.org/nomes-de-familia/SANDE

Conozoco de su existencia porque aparece en los registros de nacimiento de todos sus nietos (es el abuelo materno). Su nombre en los registros es "Manuel Tabadeo" y su lugar de origen "Chande - Reino de Portugal". Tras horas buscando alguna ciudad o provincia portuguesa llamada "Chande" con google maps, me dí cuenta de que "Chande" sería la transcripción fonética que haría un funcionario andaluz del topónimo "Sande" pronunciado en portugués.

Abrí un hilo hace tiempo en el foro portugués preguntando por ello:

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?8357-Tabadeo-%C9-um-nome-Portugu%EAs


También creo que "Tabadeo" es algún tipo de transcripción fonética porque ambos antepasados nacieron en el siglo XVIII y muy probablemente eran analfabetos.

Ruderico
02-13-2019, 03:05 PM
Conozoco de su existencia porque aparece en los registros de nacimiento de todos sus nietos (es el abuelo materno). Su nombre en los registros es "Manuel Tabadeo" y su lugar de origen "Chande - Reino de Portugal". Tras horas buscando alguna ciudad o provincia portuguesa llamada "Chande" con google maps, me dí cuenta de que "Chande" sería la transcripción fonética que haría un funcionario andaluz del topónimo "Sande" pronunciado en portugués.

Abrí un hilo hace tiempo en el foro portugués preguntando por ello:

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?8357-Tabadeo-%C9-um-nome-Portugu%EAs


También creo que "Tabadeo" es algún tipo de transcripción fonética porque ambos antepasados nacieron en el siglo XVIII y muy probablemente eran analfabetos.

Também acontecia que por vezes o pároco não conhecia o lugar, então escrevia mal. A minha linhagem paterna era de Fontoura (https://tombo.pt/f/vln05), em Valença (ao lado de Tuy, Pontevedra), mas foi escrito como "Frontoura" ou "Frontora" (https://postimg.cc/BP1rVJYH) em Viseu quando se casou. Arcebispado (de Braga) também foi mal escrito, por alguma razão. Este padre nunca acertava a letra r :lol:

Se estiveres interessado em procurar, tens registos paroquiais em https://tombo.pt/ e informação geográfica em http://atlas.fcsh.unl.pt/cartoweb35/atlas.php.
Tens alguns lugares chamados Sande, todos no Norte:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sande/@41.7002186,-8.4242412,13.25z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0xd25041d5e967b7d:0x500ebbde490850 0!8m2!3d41.7026569!4d-8.3931474
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sande+(S%C3%A3o+Martinho)/@41.4959789,-8.3974683,13z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0xd24fa52c632ea9b:0xea1f3b140237a1 e3!8m2!3d41.4956796!4d-8.3620667
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sande/@41.1116012,-8.1828105,14z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0xd249855e0ed59f9:0x500ebb de490f1d0!8m2!3d41.1048771!4d-8.1762214

Tabadeu/Tabadeo nunca vi. Em geneanet.pt só aparecem já em Sevilha e Málaga, devem ser teus familiares https://pt.geneanet.org/nomes-de-familia/TABADEO

Shadogowah
02-13-2019, 03:09 PM
Também acontecia que por vezes o pároco não conhecia o lugar, então escrevia mal. A minha linhagem paterna era de Fontoura (https://tombo.pt/f/vln05), em Valença (ao lado de Tuy, Pontevedra), mas foi escrito como "Frontoura" ou "Frontora" (https://postimg.cc/BP1rVJYH) em Viseu quando se casou. Arcebispado (de Braga) também foi mal escrito, por alguma razão. Este padre nunca acertava a letra r :lol:

Se estiveres interessado em procurar, tens registos paroquiais em https://tombo.pt/ e informação geográfica em http://atlas.fcsh.unl.pt/cartoweb35/atlas.php.
Tens alguns lugares chamados Sande, todos no Norte:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sande/@41.7002186,-8.4242412,13.25z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0xd25041d5e967b7d:0x500ebbde490850 0!8m2!3d41.7026569!4d-8.3931474
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sande+(S%C3%A3o+Martinho)/@41.4959789,-8.3974683,13z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0xd24fa52c632ea9b:0xea1f3b140237a1 e3!8m2!3d41.4956796!4d-8.3620667
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sande/@41.1116012,-8.1828105,14z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0xd249855e0ed59f9:0x500ebb de490f1d0!8m2!3d41.1048771!4d-8.1762214

Tabadeu/Tabadeo nunca vi. Em geneanet.pt só aparecem já em Sevilha e Málaga, devem ser teus familiares https://pt.geneanet.org/nomes-de-familia/TABADEO


He leído cosas en los registros que te hacen sangrar los ojos.

Y si, esos son mis antepasados.

Usando google, sólo tengo constancia de otro Tabadeo, un ingeniero norteamericano que visitó el CERN en 1972

http://cds.cern.ch/record/2141458?ln=es

Probablemente otra mala transcripción, aunque quién sabe, a lo mejor es un tío lejano.

Ruderico
02-13-2019, 03:17 PM
Voltando aos modelos, se um dia tiveres as tuas coordenadas de Global 25 terei todo o gosto em fazer estes modelos, ou outros, para ti

Ruderico
03-20-2019, 11:36 AM
So, with the new samples from the Olalde paper being avaliable on G25 I decided to update the previous simple model with a new one. Since we now have IA samples from Iberia, I got rid of the Iberia_BA and Hallstatt references and replaced them with both Iberia_North_IA (Celtiberians).
The paper states:

The impact of mobility from the central/eastern Mediterranean during the Classical period is also evident in 10 individuals from the 7th to 8th century CE site of L'Esquerda in the northeast, who show a shift from the Iron Age population in the direction of present-day Italians and Greeks (Fig. 1D) that accounts for approximately one-quarter of their ancestry (Fig. 2C and table S17). The same shift is also observed in present-day Iberians outside the Basque area and is plausibly a consequence of the Roman presence in the peninsula, which had a profound cultural impact and, according to our data, a substantial genetic impact too.

So we're aiming at roughly 25% Roman ancestry. We also know that the North African impact in west Iberia is some 8-12%.
Let's see what the model gives:



[1] "distance%=1.036"

Portuguese

Celtiberian,69.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,19.4
Guanche,11.4


[1] "distance%=0.8919"

Spanish_Extremadura

Celtiberian,66.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,21
Guanche,12.2


[1] "distance%=1.4194"

Spanish_Galicia

Celtiberian,70
Roman_Imperial_proxy,19.6
Guanche,10.4


[1] "distance%=1.339"

Spanish_Cantabria

Celtiberian,81.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,13
Guanche,5.4


[1] "distance%=0.999"

Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon

Celtiberian,72.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,16.8
Guanche,10.4


[1] "distance%=0.8002"

Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha

Celtiberian,76.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,18.6
Guanche,5


[1] "distance%=1.0186"

Spanish_Andalucia

Celtiberian,70.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,22.6
Guanche,6.8


[1] "distance%=0.9077"

Spanish_Murcia

Celtiberian,68.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,24.2
Guanche,7.6


[1] "distance%=1.3097"

Spanish_Valencia

Celtiberian,81.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,15.4
Guanche,3.2


[1] "distance%=0.951"

Spanish_Cataluna

Celtiberian,77
Roman_Imperial_proxy,16.2
Guanche,6.8


[1] "distance%=1.0951"

Spanish_Aragon

Celtiberian,77.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,15.6
Guanche,6.6


[1] "distance%=1.0975"

Spanish_Baleares

Celtiberian,69.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,27.2
Guanche,3.6


[1] "distance%=1.0256"

Spanish_Canarias

Celtiberian,64.2
Guanche,19.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,16.2






And below, the same individual Portuguese samples as before. You can check the G25 PCA plot again below. The dataset includes all modern West Eurasians in G25, and all the post-IA samples from Olalde 2019 (plus one CA).
https://i.postimg.cc/vMGh9gf3/westeurasiag25.png

Again, for reference:
Ruderico - North-centre
MrsRuderico - East (next to northern Extremadura)
rxavierflima - Northwest
elisabetenjoaquim - West
Lusitano - Centre


[1] "distance%=1.765"

Ruderico

Celtiberian,76.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,14.8
Guanche,8.4


[1] "distance%=1.7545"

MrsRuderico

Celtiberian,73
Guanche,13.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,13.4


[1] "distance%=1.4588"

rxavierflima

Celtiberian,69.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,21
Guanche,9.6


[1] "distance%=1.2422"

elisabetenjoaquim

Celtiberian,68.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,19.4
Guanche,12


[1] "distance%=1.4175"

Lusitano

Celtiberian,69.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,19.2
Guanche,11.6



Is it perfect? No, it's probably off by a few % here and there (Guanche might be slightly inflated in some references, for example) but for such a simple model it's good enough for me not to lose sleep over it. The fits generally improve, mine in particularly did so almost dramatically, so I'm very happy.

There's also possibly a layer of Germanic-related ancestry missing, using the Visigothic samples from the paper, or from older ones, generally gives everyone a very significant amount, but I'm assuming this is mostly a statistical artifact rather than actual large amounts of Germanic ancestry, otherwise Olalde would have mentioned it in his paper, no?
My guess is that some of it is lying around, but I'm finding it hard to estimate with these tools. If one reference could be found that gets modelled in small amounts here and there, being higher in a few individuals who plot closer to France it'd be perfect, because my suspicion is that some individuals would benefit from it. Alternatively I could use Celtiberians and Iberians separately, and this will mirror what happened with the Iberia_BA+Hallstatt model, but I don't find that as interesting or informative at this stage.



I can rerun these with all IA samples from Iberia if anyone wants to see the result

sweuro
03-20-2019, 05:07 PM
En general parece bastante correcto, pero para Cantabria, Cataluña y Aragón el aporte norte-africano parece demasiado elevado, tendría que estar en el rango de 2-4%
Usando la muestra de origen norte-africano Iberia Central CA Afr I4246 en vez de Guanche11 (que tiene aporte europeo) :
Para aporte Romano/Este Mediterráneo utilizo un griego antiguo de Empúries (I8208)

[1] "distance%=2.3461 / distance=0.023461"

Spanish_Cantabria
Iberia_North_IA 83.3
Iberia_Northeast_Hel:I8208 14.3
Iberia_Central_CA_Afr:I4246 2.4

Ruderico
03-20-2019, 05:23 PM
En general parece bastante correcto, pero para Cantabria, Cataluña y Aragón el aporte norte-africano parece demasiado elevado, tendría que estar en el rango de 2-4%
Usando la muestra de origen norte-africano Iberia Central CA Afr I4246 en vez de Guanche11 (que tiene aporte europeo) :
Para aporte Romano/Este Mediterráneo utilizo un griego antiguo de Empúries (I8208)

[1] "distance%=2.3461 / distance=0.023461"

Spanish_Cantabria
Iberia_North_IA 83.3
Iberia_Northeast_Hel:I8208 14.3
Iberia_Central_CA_Afr:I4246 2.4

Hey, thanks for replying.
Yes it might be a bit elevated for a few references, but not too much. I interpret the higher-than-expected results as a high-end estimation of sorts, for example my Missus never got a result this high, whereas mine is a bit lower than usual (I generally score less, but still close, to the Portuguese reference..here I'm 3% lower for whatever reason).

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-N4Qt1Uu23XM/Wr8a2yJ7iTI/AAAAAAAADy0/5m9VSUHNE54SN0iq8dwj2jEjLAm9peEJQCEwYBhgL/s1600/NMorocco.png


Cantabria is in the purple area, or the beggining of the blue area, so I estimate somewhere between 3,5% to 5,5% should be okay. 5,4% might be a maximum, but not totally irrealistic.
Whatever the "real" value is - as the result depends on the source, Guanche11 and NorthMorocco have some European ancestry - it's clearly much lower than what we have here in the west.

sweuro
03-20-2019, 06:22 PM
Hey, thanks for replying.
Yes it might be a bit elevated for a few references, but not too much. I interpret the higher-than-expected results as a high-end estimation of sorts, for example my Missus never got a result this high, whereas mine is a bit lower than usual (I generally score less, but still close, to the Portuguese reference..here I'm 3% lower for whatever reason).

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-N4Qt1Uu23XM/Wr8a2yJ7iTI/AAAAAAAADy0/5m9VSUHNE54SN0iq8dwj2jEjLAm9peEJQCEwYBhgL/s1600/NMorocco.png


Cantabria is in the purple area, or the beggining of the blue area, so I estimate somewhere between 3,5% to 5,5% should be okay. 5,4% might be a maximum, but not totally irrealistic.
Whatever the "real" value is - as the result depends on the source, Guanche11 and NorthMorocco have some European ancestry - it's clearly much lower than what we have here in the west.
I don't know what that map is, but based on the nMontes that I've done with iberians all these years Cantabrians consistently give me the 2-4% range.


Using modern populations that don't have any North-African (just for the purpose of isolating the North-African component):

[1] "distance%=1.1257 / distance=0.011257"

Spanish_Cantabria

Basque_French 48.7
French_South 17.6
Italian_Tuscan 17.4
French 12.9
Moroccan 3.3


Using ancient samples with different models :


[1] "distance%=2.5104 / distance=0.025104"

Spanish_Cantabria

Iberia_North_MLN 54.65
Yamnaya_Kalmykia 27.60
Anatolia_EBA_Isparta 14.60
Moroccan 3.15


[1] "distance%=1.9934 / distance=0.019934"

Spanish_Cantabria

Hallstatt_Bylany 41.40
Iberia_BA 37.90
Anatolia_BA 12.35
Portugal_MBA 6.15
Moroccan 2.20



[1] "distance%=2.3461 / distance=0.023461"

Spanish_Cantabria

Iberia_North_IA 83.3
Iberia_Northeast_Hel:I8208 14.3
Iberia_Central_CA_Afr:I4246 2.4

Ruderico
03-20-2019, 06:28 PM
It's a paper that was publish not too long ago Patterns of genetic differentiation and the footprints of historical migrations in the Iberian Peninsula
Personally I give more relevance to these studies than any nMonte models, since studies were done by academics

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-08272-w


That image was actually from the preprint, the final version updated the values.
https://media.springernature.com/lw900/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1038%2Fs41467-018-08272-w/MediaObjects/41467_2018_8272_Fig5_HTML.png

sweuro
03-20-2019, 06:44 PM
It's a paper that was publish not too long ago Patterns of genetic differentiation and the footprints of historical migrations in the Iberian Peninsula
Personally I give more relevance to these studies than any nMonte models, since studies were done by academics

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-08272-w


That image was actually from the preprint, the final version updated the values.
https://media.springernature.com/lw900/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1038%2Fs41467-018-08272-w/MediaObjects/41467_2018_8272_Fig5_HTML.png

The Western area of Cantabrian seems to be an effect of the software map, because it is based on the dots, and the Western part of Cantabria doesn't have any dots, so it connects directly with Western Spain which are in orange, that's why it starts to fade rigth in the middle. But the samples of Cantabria (all the dots) are in the 3-5% range , and considering it's based on modern North Moroccans (which have recent and appreciable levels of European admixture) it should be around 2-3% of pure north-african which makes sense and is consistent with nMonte.

Ruderico
03-20-2019, 06:59 PM
The Western area of Cantabrian seems to be an effect of the software map, because it is based on the dots, and the Western part of Cantabria doesn't have any dots, so it connects directly with Western Spain which are in orange, that's why it starts to fade rigth in the middle. But the samples of Cantabria (all the dots) are in the 3-5% range , and considering it's based on modern North Moroccans (which have recent and appreciable levels of European admixture) it should be around 2-3% of pure north-african which makes sense and is consistent with nMonte.

Yep, which is why I said some of the values on the model I built are at the high-end (besides nMonte doesn't always return the smae values with penalty on, so there's that too). However we do not know exactly what the genetic profile of these early settlers was like because we do not have proper samples, only those 50/50-ish from Andalucia in the Roman period, but we have no idea if they arrived during the Roman occupation/colonisation or a bit before (Carthaginians). I'm tempted to say the former, but alas no samples.

The reason I didn't choose I4246 was because they said on the paper that such early contacts were sporadic, so individuals like him were probably too early to represent NA in Iberia, whereas the Guanche is from the 700s or 800s, and has no direct European ancestry. Whatever European ancestry he has was already present in north Africa at the time, it just back migrated to Iberia.



Anyway, it doesn't seem like a different source will fundamentally change the results. A couple % more or less doesn't bother me too much, especially if the variation across the peninsula doesn't turn odd. Also keep in mind that there are just 3 or 4 samples in each reference, so they might not be exactly representative. Imagine I was one of the individuals used for a Portuguese reference with just 2 others...oof...

Ruderico
03-28-2019, 05:57 PM
Hola otra vez!

This time I'll be posting a quick model aimed at getting a look at Germanic ancestry inside Portugal and Spain using the samples from the latest Olalde paper.
I always found it very hard to estimate because values can flutuate a bit depending on the references on individuals being modelled. This time I'll be only using averaged references, to try keeping results more stable. However, since the Visigothic average reference includes a local (I12034) I decided to recalculate it without the outlier who could have ended up skewing results.

For reference I'll be posting David's Celtic vs Germanic PCA. Unfortunetly there's no discrimination of Spanish regions, which is a damned shame because it'd help quite a lot.

https://i.postimg.cc/hKQ3qPnX/cvg.png






[1] "distance%=1.0896"

Portuguese

Celtiberian,62.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,16.8
Guanche,10.8
Visigothic,9.8


[1] "distance%=0.9111"

Spanish_Extremadura

Celtiberian,61.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,14.8
Visigothic,12.4
Guanche,11.2


[1] "distance%=1.5939"

Spanish_Galicia

Celtiberian,55
Visigothic,19.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,15.8
Guanche,9.6


[1] "distance%=1.3755"

Spanish_Cantabria

Celtiberian,83.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,9.8
Guanche,4.2
Visigothic,2.6


[1] "distance%=1.0229"

Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon

Celtiberian,72.8
Guanche,10.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,10
Visigothic,6.4


[1] "distance%=0.85"

Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha

Celtiberian,77.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,13.2
Guanche,5
Visigothic,4.4


[1] "distance%=1.0692"

Spanish_Andalucia

Celtiberian,71.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,17.8
Guanche,6.4
Visigothic,4


[1] "distance%=0.9998"

Spanish_Murcia

Celtiberian,63.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,17
Visigothic,12.2
Guanche,7.4


[1] "distance%=1.5173"

Spanish_Valencia

Celtiberian,82.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,11.6
Guanche,6
Visigothic,0


[1] "distance%=0.9881"

Spanish_Cataluna

Celtiberian,69.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,13
Visigothic,12
Guanche,5.4


[1] "distance%=1.1178"

Spanish_Aragon

Celtiberian,79
Roman_Imperial_proxy,12.2
Guanche,5.6
Visigothic,3.2


[1] "distance%=1.2195"

Spanish_Baleares

Celtiberian,63.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,23
Visigothic,11.4
Guanche,2





The following group includes Portuguese individuals besides those already included in the G25 dataset.
If you are Spanish it'd be really great if you could get your own coordinates so we could check your personal variation.


[1] "distance%=1.9348"

Ruderico

Celtiberian,80
Guanche,10.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,9.4
Visigothic,0


[1] "distance%=1.8344"

MrsRuderico

Celtiberian,71.4
Guanche,13.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,11
Visigothic,3.8




[1] "distance%=1.699"

rxavierflima

Celtiberian,68.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,12.6
Guanche,12.4
Visigothic,6.4


[1] "distance%=1.3321"

joaoflima

Celtiberian,65.4
Guanche,13.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,13.8
Visigothic,7


[1] "distance%=1.1761"

modeteftlima

Celtiberian,53
Visigothic,17.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,17
Guanche,12.2


[1] "distance%=1.5474"

matiasnlima

Celtiberian,67.2
Guanche,14.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,10.2
Visigothic,7.8


[1] "distance%=1.0866"

elisabetenjoaquim

Celtiberian,57.6
Visigothic,18.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,12.8
Guanche,11.2


[1] "distance%=1.1185"

armandoejoaquim

Celtiberian,54.2
Visigothic,24.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,13
Guanche,8


[1] "distance%=1.5607"

ermelindarcnunes

Celtiberian,46.8
Visigothic,30.2
Guanche,11.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,11.4




[1] "distance%=1.623"

Lusitano

Celtiberian,72.8
Guanche,13.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,13.2
Visigothic,0.2




Some individuals seem to have ridiculously high Visigothic scores so I'm very skeptical of some results - particularly as Olalde didn't mention a significant Germanic impact in modern Iberia - even if the trends themselves might indeed indicate some sort of increased Germanic ancestry. Maybe they are a consequence of Reconquista repopulations from north European crusaders?

I also decided to include a new Germanic reference instead of these Visigoths for West Iberians, mostly because Germanic settlers there could have been less admixed than the Visigoths, since the Suebi weren't known for wondering about in SE Europe. For that I used the Szolad references, but removed all those who did not plot with modern Germanic-speaking individuals, and finally calculated a new average. The results were very similar. Portugal and León got better fits, for Galicia and myself the improvement was statistically irrelevant. Overall the change of references did pretty much nothing. I guess I'll discard the model


[1] "distance%=1.0296"

Portuguese

Celtiberian,59.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,16.4
Suebi_proxy,12.4
Guanche,11.6


[1] "distance%=1.5801"

Spanish_Galicia

Celtiberian,54.2
Suebi_proxy,18
Roman_Imperial_proxy,17.6
Guanche,10.2


[1] "distance%=0.9821"

Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon

Celtiberian,69.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,12.6
Guanche,10.8
Suebi_proxy,6.8



[1] "distance%=1.9288"

Ruderico

Celtiberian,78.8
Guanche,11.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,9.8
Suebi_proxy,0





Now I'll go play Age of Empires Online as Celts against Norse and Greeks, because my results dictate so :lol:

rxavierflima
03-28-2019, 09:29 PM
:hail:
Eh pá, posta aí os 7 resultados, s'il te plaît!
Acho mais interessante com suevos do que com visigodos porque, como dizes, os visigodos eram uma grande mistela quando cá chegaram.


The Visigothic Kingdom was the larger and longer lived than the Suebi Kingdom, and yet the Goths do not seem to have had any significant genetic impact on the Iberian population - at least not in terms of Germanic Y-DNA. The reason might simply be that they were no longer a predominantly Germanic tribe. After all, the Goths had lived for many centuries in Eastern Europe and nearly two more centuries in the Balkans before invading Italy, Gaul and Iberia. They could have assimilated a lot of non-Germanic people on the way, notably R1a and I2a1b Slavs and predominantly E1b1b, I2a1b and J2 Balkanic people. It would be pretty complicated at the moment to untangle the Balkanic E1b1b and J2 from all the others (Neolithic, Phoenician, Greek, Roman, Jewish, Arabic) found in Iberia. But it is remarkably easy to check the Eastern European I2a1b (M423) and R1a (M458 and Z280). No historical migration could account for Slavic haplogroups in Iberia apart from the East European populations assimilated by the Goths before the 4th century. (https://www.eupedia.com/genetics/spain_portugal_dna.shtml)

Ruderico
03-28-2019, 11:00 PM
:hail:
Eh pá, posta aí os 7 resultados, s'il te plaît!
Acho mais interessante com suevos do que com visigodos porque, como dizes, os visigodos eram uma grande mistela quando cá chegaram.

Bem tecnicamente são Lombardos, não Suevos, apenas os estou a usar como proxy, mas eles provavelmente esses grupos eram bastante semelhantes. O resultado seja com Visigodos ou estes é em termos práticos igual, apesar de algumas componentes ficarem anormalmente elevadas, por exemplo o Guanche está claramente acima do real que deverá ser algures entre 9-11% para a maior parte de nós. Sinceramente até prefiro o modelo com os Godos.

O teu sogro é que tem resultados algo diferentes, muito Germanico e pouco do norte de África.



[1] "distance%=1.6728"

rxavierflima

Celtiberian,66.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,15.6
Guanche,13
Suebi_proxy,5.2


[1] "distance%=1.5072"

matiasnlima

Celtiberian,64
Guanche,15.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,10.2
Suebi_proxy,10.2


[1] "distance%=0.9918"

elisabetenjoaquim

Celtiberian,55
Suebi_proxy,19
Roman_Imperial_proxy,14.4
Guanche,11.6


[1] "distance%=1.0263"

armandoejoaquim

Celtiberian,51
Suebi_proxy,24.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,15.6
Guanche,8.8


[1] "distance%=1.3137"

joaoflima

Celtiberian,63.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,15.2
Guanche,14.4
Suebi_proxy,6.6


[1] "distance%=1.1573"

modeteftlima

Celtiberian,52
Roman_Imperial_proxy,19.6
Suebi_proxy,15.6
Guanche,12.8


[1] "distance%=1.4562"

ermelindarcnunes

Celtiberian,44.4
Suebi_proxy,28
Roman_Imperial_proxy,15.4
Guanche,12.2

rxavierflima
03-29-2019, 08:56 PM
Bem tecnicamente são Lombardos, não Suevos, apenas os estou a usar como proxy, mas eles provavelmente esses grupos eram bastante semelhantes. O resultado seja com Visigodos ou estes é em termos práticos igual, apesar de algumas componentes ficarem anormalmente elevadas, por exemplo o Guanche está claramente acima do real que deverá ser algures entre 9-11% para a maior parte de nós. Sinceramente até prefiro o modelo com os Godos.

O teu sogro é que tem resultados algo diferentes, muito Germanico e pouco do norte de África.



Hum, de que altura são esses lombardos? Se são do século VI quando entraram na Itália, ok. Mas se são já muito posteriores, não me parece que se possam considerar semelhantes a suevos. Os suevos que chegaram a Portugal eram germânicos "puros" porque a viagem durou 2 ou 3 anos.

A mim cheira-me (repara na cientificidade disto lol) que o meu pai apesar de ter muito NA, é também o que tem mais sangue suevo. Não só porque é de ascendência minhota mas também porque segundo ele havia pessoas da família ruivos. Isto pode não querer dizer nada, mas é a minha aposta. E talvez isto explique um pouco este absurdo (https://anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27036&d=1541891839).

Acho também que os pais da minha mulher, sendo do centro do país, terão mais influência do lado visigodo.

Ruderico
03-30-2019, 10:25 AM
São por volta dessa altura, sim, os indivíduos que usei são muito Germânicos

O modelo usa essa referência para ascendência mais do noroeste, pode ser Suevo, Inglês, Normando ou tudo junto.
O teu pai pode ter herdado menos, quer por aleatoriedade quer por a sua distribuição ser heterogenea mesmo no Minho. Já o teu sogro pode por exemplo ter mais antepassados descendentes de cruzados/colonos da Flandres/Inglaterra/Borgonha que vieram para cá durante a reconquista e cá ficaram (tipo Tomar), é que toda a família desse lado tem essa tendência. Estou só a especular, claro.

Eu também tenho muitas pessoas com pigmentação muito clara no lado da minha mãe, todos Durienses de gema, no entanto vê bem o quão germânico eu sou x)

Token
04-20-2019, 01:18 AM
Hola otra vez!

This time I'll be posting a quick model aimed at getting a look at Germanic ancestry inside Portugal and Spain using the samples from the latest Olalde paper.
I always found it very hard to estimate because values can flutuate a bit depending on the references on individuals being modelled. This time I'll be only using averaged references, to try keeping results more stable. However, since the Visigothic average reference includes a local (I12034) I decided to recalculate it without the outlier who could have ended up skewing results.

For reference I'll be posting David's Celtic vs Germanic PCA. Unfortunetly there's no discrimination of Spanish regions, which is a damned shame because it'd help quite a lot.
It seems you have changed your mind regarding Germanic input in Iberia.

sweuro
05-27-2019, 01:16 PM
Las muestras nuevas del estudio de Ibiza están ya en Gedmatch (Islas Balears, Valencia, Castellón, Alicante, Barcelona, Periferia Barcelona, Lleida, Pirineo, Girona, Camp de Tarragana, Catalunya Central, Terres de L'Ebre, Menorca, Mallorca, Ibiza).

Este soy yo modelado en Eurogenes K15 añadiendo estas nuevas muestras :

65.0% Spaniard Murcia + 35.0% French Central n=6 @ 2.58,
76.0% Spanish Eivissa n=13 + 24.0% Spaniard Asturias n=4 @ 2.658,00
74.0% Spaniard Murcia + 26.0% French North n=5 @ 2.686,00
79.0% Spaniard Murcia + 21.0% Southwest_English @ 2.711,00
71.0% Spaniard Murcia + 29.0% French Normandy n=4 @ 2.805,00
86.0% Spanish Eivissa n=13 + 14.0% Sp_La Rioja @ 2.833,00
77.0% Sp_Aragonese n=9 + 23.0% Italy_Friul @ 2.835,00
83.0% Spaniard Murcia + 17.0% Orcadian @ 2.866,00
71.0% Spanish Eivissa n=13 + 29.0% Sp_Aragonese n=9 @ 2.87,
71.0% Spaniard Murcia + 29.0% French Canada @ 2.885,00
74.0% Spanish Catalunya_Central n=10 + 26.0% Spaniard Murcia @ 2.888,00

sweuro
05-27-2019, 01:30 PM
Otros modelos:


València:

56.0% Spanish Menorca n=3 + 44.0% Sp_La Rioja @ 2.095,00
63.0% Sp_Aragonese n=9 + 37.0% Spanish Menorca n=3 @ 2.128,00
84.0% Spaniard Valencians n=16 + 16.0% Spanish Terres_de_l'Ebre n=5 @ 2.205,00
91.0% Spaniard Valencians n=16 + 9.0% Spanish Menorca n=3 @ 2.215,00



Terres de L'Ebre

77.0% Spanish_Aragon + 23.0% IT_Sauris @ 2.293,00
62.0% Spanish_Aragon + 38.0% Spanish Menorca n=3 @ 2.401,00
74.0% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 26.0% Spanish Menorca n=3 @ 2.505,00
86.0% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 14.0% IT_Sauris @ 2.545,00



Pirineu
80.0% Spanish Lleida n=9 + 20.0% Spaniard Navarra n=9 @ 2.185,00
77.0% Spanish Girona n=10 + 23.0% Spaniard Navarra n=9 @ 2.402,00
73.0% Spanish Lleida n=9 + 27.0% French SW average n=18 @ 2.457,00
81.0% Spanish Lleida n=9 + 19.0% French_Basque @ 2.562,00



Peri-Barcelona
63.0% Spanish Castelló n=7 + 37.0% Spanish_Cataluna @ 1.741,00
55.0% Spanish Catalunya_Central n=10 + 45.0% Spanish Castelló n=7 @ 1.742,00
59.0% Spanish Castelló n=7 + 41.0% Spanish Eivissa n=13 @ 1.748,00
57.0% Spaniard Valencians n=16 + 43.0% Spanish Girona n=10 @ 1.843,00



Penedès
54.0% French South average n=10 + 46.0% Spanish Eivissa n=13 @ 1.971,00
93.0% French South average n=10 + 7.0% Algerian_Jewish @ 2.03,
72.0% Spanish Girona n=10 + 28.0% French Central n=6 @ 2.054,00
92.0% French South average n=10 + 8.0% Italian_Jewish @ 2.06,
77.0% Spanish Girona n=10 + 23.0% French East n=12 @ 2.076,00
63.0% Spanish Catalunya_Central n=10 + 37.0% IT_Aosta @ 2.082,00



Menorca
66.0% Spanish_Galicia + 34.0% North_Italian @ 3.185,00
75.0% Spanish_Galicia + 25.0% IT_Carloforte @ 3.368,00
81.0% Spanish_Galicia + 19.0% Corsicans @ 3.431,00
91.0% Spanish_Galicia + 9.0% Sardinian @ 3.624,00
88.0% Spanish_Galicia + 12.0% Greek @ 3.625,00
54.0% Swiss-Italians n=2 + 46.0% Spanish Terres_de_l'Ebre n=5 @ 3.647,00



Mallorca
69.0% Sp_Baleares + 31.0% Spanish_Galicia @ 2.006,00
88.0% Spanish Lleida n=9 + 12.0% Bulgarian @ 2.019,00
89.0% Spanish Lleida n=9 + 11.0% Greek @ 2.02,
86.0% Spanish Lleida n=9 + 14.0% Albanian @ 2.038,00
75.0% Spanish Lleida n=9 + 25.0% Italian_Veneto @ 2.053,00



Lleida
59.0% French South average n=10 + 41.0% Spaniard Castilla La Mancha n=8 @ 2.632,00
57.0% French South average n=10 + 43.0% Spaniard Castilla-León n=6 @ 2.648,00
68.0% Spaniard Castilla La Mancha n=8 + 32.0% French East n=12 @ 2.696,00
74.0% Spaniard Castilla La Mancha n=8 + 26.0% French Normandy n=4 @ 2.826,00
59.0% French South average n=10 + 41.0% Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.856,00



Girona
88.0% French South average n=10 + 12.0% IT_Sulcis Iglesiente @ 3.013,00
69.0% French South average n=10 + 31.0% Spaniard Murcia n=3 @ 3.032,00
88.0% French South average n=10 + 12.0% IT_Benetutti @ 3.083,00
53.0% French South average n=10 + 47.0% Spaniard Castilla-León n=6 @ 3.112,00
74.0% Spaniard Valencians n=16 + 26.0% Italy West-Piedmont n=3 @ 3.249,00
78.0% French Central n=6 + 22.0% IT_Benetutti @ 3.3,



Ibiza
95.0% Spanish Peri-Barcelona n=10 + 5.0% Iraq @ 1.822,00
95.0% Spanish Peri-Barcelona n=10 + 5.0% Lebanese_Muslim @ 1.866,00
96.0% Spanish Peri-Barcelona n=10 + 4.0% Iraqi_Jews @ 1.931,00
74.0% Spaniard Andalusian n = 22 + 26.0% Italy West-Piedmont n=3 @ 1.983,00
78.0% Spaniard Andalusian n = 22 + 22.0% IT_Sappada @ 2.009,00
79.0% Spanish_Murcia + 21.0% Italy West-Piedmont n=3 @ 2.1,
82.0% Spanish_Murcia + 18.0% IT_Sappada @ 2.196,00
82.0% Spaniard Andalusian n = 22 + 18.0% Italy South Tyrol n=2 @ 2.2,
79.0% Spaniard Andalusian n = 22 + 21.0% IT_Sauris @ 2.208,00


Catalunya Central
75.0% Sp_Aragonese n=9 + 25.0% IT_Sappada @ 1.941,00
96.0% Spanish Peri-Barcelona n=10 + 4.0% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.031,00
97.0% Spanish Peri-Barcelona n=10 + 3.0% Estonian_Polish @ 2.038,00
79.0% Sp_Aragonese n=9 + 21.0% Italy South Tyrol n=2 @ 2.053,00
79.0% Sp_Aragonese n=9 + 21.0% Italy South Tyrol n=2 @ 2.053,00
95.0% Spanish Peri-Barcelona n=10 + 5.0% Austrian @ 2.053,00
97.0% Spanish Peri-Barcelona n=10 + 3.0% Belorussian @ 2.079,00
97.0% Spanish Peri-Barcelona n=10 + 3.0% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.084,00
74.0% Sp_Aragonese n=9 + 26.0% Italy Trentino n=4 @ 2.105,00


Castelló
62.0% Spaniard Castilla-León n=6 + 38.0% French South average n=10 @ 3.39,
63.0% Swiss-Italians n=2 + 37.0% Spaniard Basques n=15 @ 3.392,00
88.0% Spaniard Valencians n=16 + 12.0% French Normandy n=4 @ 3.442,00
52.0% Sp_La Rioja + 48.0% Swiss-Italians n=2 @ 3.445,00
79.0% Spaniard Valencians n=16 + 21.0% French South average n=10 @ 3.458,00
92.0% Spaniard Valencians n=16 + 8.0% Belgium_Waloon @ 3.506,00
95.0% Spaniard Valencians n=16 + 5.0% Orcadian @ 3.516,00
95.0% Spaniard Valencians n=16 + 5.0% Norwegian @ 3.526,00


Camp de Tarragona
86.0% Spanish Alacant n=6 + 14.0% French Central n=6 @ 1.572,00
86.0% Spanish Alacant n=6 + 14.0% French East n=12 @ 1.614,00
88.0% Spanish Alacant n=6 + 12.0% French Normandy n=4 @ 1.643,00
90.0% Spanish Alacant n=6 + 10.0% French North n=5 @ 1.645,00
84.0% Spanish Alacant n=6 + 16.0% French South average n=10 @ 1.686,00
65.0% Spanish_Cataluna + 35.0% Spaniard Galicia n=10 @ 1.713,00
72.0% Spanish_Cataluna + 28.0% Spanish_Extremadura @ 1.729,00


Barcelonès
82.0% Spaniard Valencians n=16 + 18.0% French Normandy n=4 @ 2.209,00
88.0% Spaniard Valencians n=16 + 12.0% Belgium_Waloon @ 2.326,00
78.0% Spaniard Valencians n=16 + 22.0% French East n=12 @ 2.328,00
79.0% Spaniard Valencians n=16 + 21.0% French Central n=6 @ 2.352,00
91.0% Spaniard Valencians n=16 + 9.0% Orcadian @ 2.352,00
83.0% Spaniard Valencians n=16 + 17.0% French Canada @ 2.372,00


Alacant
60.0% Portuguese + 40.0% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 1.764,00
78.0% Spaniard Galicia n=10 + 22.0% Spanish_Valencia @ 1.9,
50.0% Spanish_Extremadura + 50.0% Spaniard Galicia n=10 @ 1.922,00
73.0% Spanish_Extremadura + 27.0% Spanish_Cantabria @ 1.932,00
67.0% Portuguese + 33.0% Spanish_Aragon @ 1.94,
79.0% Spaniard Galicia n=10 + 21.0% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 1.941,00


Penedès
93.0% French South average n=10 + 7.0% Algerian_Jewish @ 2.03,
92.0% French South average n=10 + 8.0% Italian_Jewish @ 2.06,
93.0% French South average n=10 + 7.0% Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.167,00
94.0% French South average n=10 + 6.0% Greek_Cypriots @ 2.199,00
95.0% French South average n=10 + 5.0% Lebanese_Muslim @ 2.273,00
51.0% Spaniard Catalan avg n=21 + 49.0% IT_Aosta @ 2.273,00

Ruderico
05-27-2019, 01:37 PM
Las muestras nuevas del estudio de Ibiza están ya en Gedmatch (Islas Balears, Valencia, Castellón, Alicante, Barcelona, Periferia Barcelona, Lleida, Pirineo, Girona, Camp de Tarragana, Catalunya Central, Terres de L'Ebre, Menorca, Mallorca, Ibiza).

Este soy yo modelado en Eurogenes K15 añadiendo estas nuevas muestras :

65.0% Spaniard Murcia + 35.0% French Central n=6 @ 2.58,
76.0% Spanish Eivissa n=13 + 24.0% Spaniard Asturias n=4 @ 2.658,00
74.0% Spaniard Murcia + 26.0% French North n=5 @ 2.686,00
79.0% Spaniard Murcia + 21.0% Southwest_English @ 2.711,00
71.0% Spaniard Murcia + 29.0% French Normandy n=4 @ 2.805,00
86.0% Spanish Eivissa n=13 + 14.0% Sp_La Rioja @ 2.833,00
77.0% Sp_Aragonese n=9 + 23.0% Italy_Friul @ 2.835,00
83.0% Spaniard Murcia + 17.0% Orcadian @ 2.866,00
71.0% Spanish Eivissa n=13 + 29.0% Sp_Aragonese n=9 @ 2.87,
71.0% Spaniard Murcia + 29.0% French Canada @ 2.885,00
74.0% Spanish Catalunya_Central n=10 + 26.0% Spaniard Murcia @ 2.888,00

Como lo has hecho? Para mi los oracles de K13 y K15 en GEDmatch estan iguales

sweuro
05-27-2019, 01:43 PM
Como lo has hecho? Para mi los oracles de K13 y K15 en GEDmatch estan iguales
Se me olvidó decirlo, son mis propios oracles los he creado yo y he añadido las muestras.

Ruderico
05-27-2019, 01:48 PM
Se me olvidó decirlo, son mis propios oracles los he creado yo y he añadido las muestras.
Vale tío, puedes hacer el mismo para mi y mi novia? Estoy curioso

Yo
# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 34.66
2 West_Med 22.82
3 North_Sea 15.44
4 East_Med 9.05
5 Baltic 6.16
6 Red_Sea 4.62
7 Northeast_African 2.9
8 Eastern_Euro 2.17
9 Sub-Saharan 1.05
10 Siberian 0.5
11 West_Asian 0.43
12 Southeast_Asian 0.2


Ella
Population
North_Sea 22.15
Atlantic 26.85
Baltic 1.97
Eastern_Euro 6.49
West_Med 22.83
West_Asian 0.50
East_Med 11.04
Red_Sea 3.87
South_Asian 0.98
Southeast_Asian 0.84
Siberian 0.16
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.48
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 1.82

sweuro
05-27-2019, 01:59 PM
Vale tío, puedes hacer el mismo para mi y mi novia? Estoy curioso

Yo
# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 34.66
2 West_Med 22.82
3 North_Sea 15.44
4 East_Med 9.05
5 Baltic 6.16
6 Red_Sea 4.62
7 Northeast_African 2.9
8 Eastern_Euro 2.17
9 Sub-Saharan 1.05
10 Siberian 0.5
11 West_Asian 0.43
12 Southeast_Asian 0.2


Ella
Population
North_Sea 22.15
Atlantic 26.85
Baltic 1.97
Eastern_Euro 6.49
West_Med 22.83
West_Asian 0.50
East_Med 11.04
Red_Sea 3.87
South_Asian 0.98
Southeast_Asian 0.84
Siberian 0.16
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.48
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 1.82

Ruderico:

80.0% French SW average n=18 + 20.0% Algerian @ 3.739,
87.0% Sp_La Rioja + 13.0% Moroccan @ 3.806,
98.0% Spaniard Asturias n=4 + 2.0% Ethiopian_Ari_cultivator @ 3.849,
98.0% Spaniard Asturias n=4 + 2.0% Ethiopian_Gumuz @ 3.853,
98.0% Spaniard Asturias n=4 + 2.0% Ethiopian_Wolayta @ 3.877,
95.0% Spanish_Aragon + 5.0% Ethiopian_Tigray @ 3.881,
98.0% Spaniard Asturias n=4 + 2.0% Ethiopian_Oromo @ 3.883,
64.0% Spaniard Murcia n=3 + 36.0% French_Basque @ 3.901,
96.0% Spanish_Aragon + 4.0% Ethiopian_Wolayta @ 3.908,
98.0% Spaniard Asturias n=4 + 2.0% Maasai @ 3.91,
96.0% Spanish_Aragon + 4.0% Ethiopian_Oromo @ 3.915,
98.0% Spaniard Asturias n=4 + 2.0% Sandawe @ 3.928,
98.0% Spaniard Asturias n=4 + 2.0% Somali @ 3.934,
98.0% Spaniard Asturias n=4 + 2.0% Ethiopian_Anuak @ 3.935,
85.0% French SW average n=18 + 15.0% Egyptian @ 3.937,


novia:

90.0% Spanish Barcelonès n=5 + 10.0% Algerian @ 5.83,
92.0% Spanish Barcelonès n=5 + 8.0% Moroccan @ 5.937,
92.0% Spanish Castelló n=7 + 8.0% Algerian @ 6.022,
95.0% Spanish Barcelonès n=5 + 5.0% Saudi @ 6.055,
92.0% Spanish Castelló n=7 + 8.0% Moroccan @ 6.059,
67.0% Spanish Castelló n=7 + 33.0% White_Uruguay @ 6.073,
95.0% Spanish Castelló n=7 + 5.0% Mari @ 6.076,
54.0% Spanish_Extremadura + 46.0% Spanish Castelló n=7 @ 6.115,
93.0% Spanish Castelló n=7 + 7.0% Tunisian @ 6.141,
95.0% Spanish Castelló n=7 + 5.0% Chuvash @ 6.16,
61.0% Portuguese + 39.0% Spanish Castelló n=7 @ 6.177,
94.0% Spanish Barcelonès n=5 + 6.0% Egyptian @ 6.177,
93.0% Spanish Barcelonès n=5 + 7.0% Tunisian @ 6.181,
95.0% Spanish Castelló n=7 + 5.0% Turkmen @ 6.188,

Ruderico
05-27-2019, 02:11 PM
Gracias, es semellante a los resultados de Admixturestudio en K15, la diferencia es que el oracle de Admixstudio me da solo Aragón y zero Asturias, talvez porque no tiene la referencia. A ver yo soy basicamente norte Iberico com nordeafricano del occidente de la peninsula. Pero Portugal o Galicia nunca aparecen.

Los resultados de mi novia son curiosos, no los esperaba, ella es de un pueblo muy cerca de la raya com el norte de Extremadura. Supongo que medio Extremeña medio Catalana/Valenciana no esta mal.


EDIT:

Supongo que en el nuevo estudio yo tendria una barra naranja muy grande y una verde pequeña, en comparacíon con los otros Portugueses. Probablemente yo también tendria una barra azur escura pequeña porque no tengo casi nada de Germánico.
Eso explica porqué siempre parezco medio Vasco en comparación con los otros Portugueses, mi perfil es mas común en España que en Portugal, aunque mis genes sean Portugueses (marcadores, etc)
https://i.postimg.cc/XjmfdQvh/admixturek7.png

Shadogowah
05-27-2019, 02:21 PM
No historical migration could account for Slavic haplogroups in Iberia apart from the East European populations assimilated by the Goths before the 4th century.


El señor que ha escrito esto parece que no se ha leído en su vida ni un solo libro sobre la historia de Al Andalus.

https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saqaliba

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-journal-of-middle-east-studies/article/what-does-the-slave-trade-in-the-saqaliba-tell-us-about-early-islamic-slavery/EDDD35D8FD593AB8D576D11550CF62C6/core-reader

http://www.ijhssnet.com/journals/Vol_7_No_6_June_2017/14.pdf

rober_tce
06-04-2019, 03:02 PM
Hola! Soy nuevo en este foro, encantado de poder encontrarme con paisanos ibéricos por aquí :) soy de España, más concretamente de Andalucía; quería consultaros si no es molestia dónde puedo encargar el global 25, ya que accedo al blog de Eurogenes y no me sale un link para una página donde se puede encargar dicha prueba. Gracias de antemano, y quería felicitaros por el gran trabajo que hacéis para desentrañar la historia genética de nuestros antepasados.

Saludos.

Ruderico
06-04-2019, 03:18 PM
Hola! Soy nuevo en este foro, encantado de poder encontrarme con paisanos ibéricos por aquí :) soy de España, más concretamente de Andalucía; quería consultaros si no es molestia dónde puedo encargar el global 25, ya que accedo al blog de Eurogenes y no me sale un link para la página donde se puede encargar dicha prueba. Gracias de antemano, y quería felicitaros por el gran trabajo que hacéis para desentrañar la historia genética de nuestros antepasados.

Saludos.

Hola, bienvenido, es siempre muy bueno haber mas ibéricos en el foro!

Para tener tus coordenadas de G25 tienes que enviar un mail al autor de Eurogenes (eurogenesblog at gmail dot com) a pedirlo. Vas a tener que enviar tu rawdata de cualquier compania (23andme, FTDNA, etc) y pagar 12USD por paypal. Despues él te envia un mail con tus coordenadas, y ahí entonces podemos hacer modelos ton tus datos. Quantos mas ibéricos con G25, mejor, el dataset regional Español es muy pequeño, cada región solo tiene 3 o 4 muestras

Saludos

rober_tce
06-04-2019, 03:25 PM
Muchas gracias Ruderico por la aclaración.

A ver si puedo ponerme a ello pronto y obtengo las coordenadas de Davidiski.

Un saludo.

jaumemiquel
06-15-2019, 06:45 PM
Hola a todos,

I'm R1B/M269/P312/DF27/Z195/DF17 as i have mentioned in other forums, and I'm from Mallorca, Spain. I'm writing in English to continue with Ruderico's original thread. Any news or further studies on this haplogroup in NE Spain?

thanks so much,

Hilerno
06-23-2019, 10:23 AM
Hola a todos,

I'm R1B/M269/P312/DF27/Z195/DF17 as i have mentioned in other forums, and I'm from Mallorca, Spain. I'm writing in English to continue with Ruderico's original thread. Any news or further studies on this haplogroup in NE Spain?

thanks so much,

Hola jaumemiquel- respecto de las Islas Baleares hay algunos trabajos interesantes que no se si conocerás

Ancient DNA of Phoenician remains indicates discontinuity in the settlement history of Ibiza- Pierre Zalloua- "Our analyses of the mitogenomes of the ancient samples from Ibiza indicate a predominantly European maternal ancestry for the population. Haplogroups H1 and H3, which either emerged from the Franco-Iberian refugia of the LGM, or arrived with early Neolithic expansions, account for 50% of the Ibizan ancient samples"- Puig des Molins

Respecto de Menorca tienes el trabajo de A Malgosa (2.014- Son Olivaret, Cova des Pas), y algunos ejemplos en Szecsenyi et al 2017 (Els Forats de ses Aritges)

Daniel Fernandes et al- Steppe and Iranian ancestry among Bronze Age Central and Western Mediterranean populations- Ron Pinhasi, Daniel Fernandes, David Reich. Steppe related ancestry is known to have reached central Europe ca. 3000 BEC, while Iran related ancestry is known to have reached Greece by 1.500 BCE. However, the time course and extent of their spread into the central/western Mediterranean remains a mistery. We analysed 48 Neolithic and Bronze Age individuals from Sicily, Sardinia and the Balearic Islands aiming to investigate when and how continental European and Aegean influences affected these insular populations. Result show that the first Balearic settlers, has substantial Steppe-related ancestry which was subsequently diluted by increasing proportions of farmer related ancestry.


Naveta des Tudons- 861 antes de Cristo- Hap Y-R1b-P312(x df27)- Mit Hap-U5b1+16189+16192-Este trabajo es la demostración de que la cultura Talayótica también era absolutamente R1b-P312, descendientes de los campaniformes Ibéricos continentales que llegaron a las islas Baleares en 2.500 AC (obviamente desde la costa catalana o valenciana)

En Mallorca hay trabajos de Diaz Villabona (2.009)- yacimientos de Son Real y S'Illot des Porros, los dos creo en la bahia de Alcudia

Magovalle
07-17-2019, 06:30 PM
Hola, amigo. Encantado de conocerte. Me pregunto si no sería mucha molestia que a partir de mi K15 de Eurogenes pudieras sacar la oracle que te sale utilizando tus muestras modernas actualizadas. El problema es que la K15 de Eurogenes utiliza muestras muy antiguas y faltan algunas importantes como: Asturias, Navarra y La Rioja entre otras. Gcs al phasing y a los datos reales de mi madre, he podido montar un par de ficheros sintéticos con la información genética que recibo de cada uno (Ya sabes un 50 pct aproximadamente). Cuando lanzo la K15 observo que se escora hacia el lado de mi madre y me da básicamente: vasco francés (que para mí es un Navarro), aragonés y un pelín de murciano. Para verificar lo que recibo de cada pata me funciona mejor la K13. Mi madre: Aragón, Castilla La Mancha, Valencia, Murcia y Andalucia. En el modo mixto es básicamente aragonesa. Mi padre: Castilla León (para mi es un Asturiano), Portugal (del Norte), Murcia, Galicia y Extremadura. En el modo mixto le da: Sudoeste de Inglaterra, Oeste de Escocia, Irlandés, Orcadiano y residual Castilla León. Muy celta

Estos son los resultados de mi K15:

Population

North_Sea 16.74 Pct
Atlantic 37.40 Pct
Baltic 4.26 Pct
Eastern_Euro 1.42 Pct
West_Med 18.72 Pct
West_Asian 2.03 Pct
East_Med 11.19 Pct
Red_Sea 4.22 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian 0.24 Pct
Siberian 0.10 Pct
Amerindian 1.10 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 2.07 Pct
Sub-Saharan 0.50 Pct

Te agradecería de corazón que vieras cómo saldría mi Oracle (K15) con tu modelo de poblaciones. Mi modelo personalizado más elaborado me da por órden de prevalencia de más importante a menos: Asturias, Portugal, Murcia, Cataluña, Navarra, País Vasco Francés, ... como más relevantes. También tengo un aporte importante de genes norteafricanos y de sefardí. Verás que es un modelo mixto más orientado hacia poblaciones del norte de la Península (sobre todo el Noroeste). Tengo bastante proximidad con Ruderico. Mi bisabuelo (línea paterna directa) era portugués del Norte. Muchas gcs de antemano,

Un saludo,

Martin

Magovalle
07-17-2019, 06:33 PM
Se me ha olvidado indicarlo. Mi post anterior va dirigido a sweuro. Gcs de antemano

sweuro
07-17-2019, 06:58 PM
Hola, amigo. Encantado de conocerte. Me pregunto si no sería mucha molestia que a partir de mi K15 de Eurogenes pudieras sacar la oracle que te sale utilizando tus muestras modernas actualizadas. El problema es que la K15 de Eurogenes utiliza muestras muy antiguas y faltan algunas importantes como: Asturias, Navarra y La Rioja entre otras. Gcs al phasing y a los datos reales de mi madre, he podido montar un par de ficheros sintéticos con la información genética que recibo de cada uno (Ya sabes un 50 pct aproximadamente). Cuando lanzo la K15 observo que se escora hacia el lado de mi madre y me da básicamente: vasco francés (que para mí es un Navarro), aragonés y un pelín de murciano. Para verificar lo que recibo de cada pata me funciona mejor la K13. Mi madre: Aragón, Castilla La Mancha, Valencia, Murcia y Andalucia. En el modo mixto es básicamente aragonesa. Mi padre: Castilla León (para mi es un Asturiano), Portugal (del Norte), Murcia, Galicia y Extremadura. En el modo mixto le da: Sudoeste de Inglaterra, Oeste de Escocia, Irlandés, Orcadiano y residual Castilla León. Muy celta

Estos son los resultados de mi K15:

Population

North_Sea 16.74 Pct
Atlantic 37.40 Pct
Baltic 4.26 Pct
Eastern_Euro 1.42 Pct
West_Med 18.72 Pct
West_Asian 2.03 Pct
East_Med 11.19 Pct
Red_Sea 4.22 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian 0.24 Pct
Siberian 0.10 Pct
Amerindian 1.10 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 2.07 Pct
Sub-Saharan 0.50 Pct

Te agradecería de corazón que vieras cómo saldría mi Oracle (K15) con tu modelo de poblaciones. Mi modelo personalizado más elaborado me da por órden de prevalencia de más importante a menos: Asturias, Portugal, Murcia, Cataluña, Navarra, País Vasco Francés, ... como más relevantes. También tengo un aporte importante de genes norteafricanos y de sefardí. Verás que es un modelo mixto más orientado hacia poblaciones del norte de la Península (sobre todo el Noroeste). Tengo bastante proximidad con Ruderico. Mi bisabuelo (línea paterna directa) era portugués del Norte. Muchas gcs de antemano,

Un saludo,

Martin

Buenas, el modelo que obtengo con tus resultados de K15 con mis poblaciones es el siguiente:

Primero las poblaciones/individuos más cercanos a ti :
("_indiv" signifca que se trata de un solo individuo, sino pone nada es la media de esa población), el número que sigue es la distancia euclediana:

Spaniard Asturias_individ 4,016
Spanish Terres_de_l'Ebre_indiv 4,28
Spanish Camp_de_Tarragona_indiv 4,80
Spaniard Catalan_indiv 4,96
Spaniard Asturias 5,48
Spaniard Galician_indiv 5,7
Spaniard Murcia_indiv 6,05
Spaniard Catalan_indiv 6,18
Spanish València_indiv 6,24
Spaniard Catalan_indiv 6,27
Spanish_Aragon 6,52
Spaniard La Rioja 6,6
Spaniard Andalusian_indiv 6,64


En el modo mixto obtengo:

81.0% Spaniard Basques n=15 + 19.0% Egyptian @ 4.628,
82.0% Spaniard Basques n=15 + 18.0% Palestinian @ 4.771,
82.0% Spaniard Basques n=15 + 18.0% Bedouin @ 4.831,
82.0% Spaniard Basques n=15 + 18.0% Jordanian @ 4.837,
85.0% Spaniard Basques n=15 + 15.0% Yemenite_Jewish @ 4.854,
83.0% Spaniard Basques n=15 + 17.0% Lebanese_Druze @ 4.934,
83.0% Spaniard Basques n=15 + 17.0% Iraq @ 4.972,
81.0% Spaniard Basques n=15 + 19.0% Lebanese_Muslim @ 5.021,
78.0% Spaniard Basques n=15 + 22.0% Tunisian_Jewish @ 5.035,
85.0% French SW average n=18 + 15.0% Egyptian @ 5.108,
85.0% Spaniard Basques n=15 + 15.0% Iraqi_Jews @ 5.143,
86.0% French SW average n=18 + 14.0% Lebanese_Druze @ 5.162,
88.0% French SW average n=18 + 12.0% Iraqi_Jews @ 5.172,
86.0% French SW average n=18 + 14.0% Palestinian @ 5.207,
86.0% French SW average n=18 + 14.0% Iraq @ 5.232,
82.0% French SW average n=18 + 18.0% Tunisian_Jewish @ 5.289,
84.0% Spaniard Basques n=15 + 16.0% Saudi @ 5.301,
85.0% French SW average n=18 + 15.0% Lebanese_Muslim @ 5.373,
81.0% Spaniard Basques n=15 + 19.0% Syrian @ 5.382,
88.0% French SW average n=18 + 12.0% Yemenite_Jewish @ 5.415,

Magovalle
07-17-2019, 07:16 PM
Muchas gcs, amigo por tu tiempo. El trabajo es impecable. Es decir que a nivel grupal las poblaciones más próximas serían: Asturias, Aragón y La Rioja. Y a nivel individual las muestras más cercanas corresponden a tres personas de: Aragón, Tierras del Ebro (¿de qué zona hablaríamos?) y Campo de Tarragona. Y en cuanto al modo mixto: fundamentalmente vasco aquitano con un pequeño toque judío y de poblaciones de Oriente Medio. Corrígeme si me equivoco. Si me surge alguna duda ya te iré preguntando. Cuídate mucho,

Un fuerte abrazo,

Martin

Magovalle
07-17-2019, 07:29 PM
Hola, de nuevo, sweuro. Un último favor. Si te paso los resultados de mi K13. ¿Podrías sacarme el modelo correspondiente?. Por si acaso te los remito. Si puedes bien y si no se le saluda. No hay compromismo. Sólo quiero verificar si hay mucha variación en el resultado con respecto a la K15 al incorporar las poblaciones modernas de tu modelo. La K13 suele ser más potente:

# Population Percent
ast
1 North_Atlantic 42.97
2 West_Med 24.3
3 East_Med 13.31
4 Baltic 8.09
5 Red_Sea 4.27
6 West_Asian 2.68
7 Northeast_African 1.94
8 Amerindian 1.4
9 Sub-Saharan 0.68
10 East_Asian 0.35
11 Siberian 0.01

Muchas gcs de antemano por tu colaboración. Un fuerte abrazo, amigo

Martín

Magovalle
07-18-2019, 04:18 PM
Hola, amigos. Con las indicaciones de los maestros del grupo (sweuro y ruderico). He montado mi propio modelo ibérico. En ambos he introducido el componente visigótico. Elaboré un modelo con las coordenadas germánicas medievales del modelo de Szoland (buscando un modelo para los suevos) pero el componente germánico se me disparaba

Modelo base (Ruderico):

[1] "distance%=1.3547"

FT_MH

Iberia_North_IA,70.8
ITA_Collegno_MA_o1,14.4
Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL,8.2
Canary_Islands_Guanche,6.6

Modelo sencillo pero muy equilibrado: Celtíbero alto, Roma Imperial, Visigodo y Norteafricano muy en la línea de lo esperado

Modelo base (sweuro):

1] "distance%=1.5285"

FT_MH

Iberia_North_IA,68.8
Iberia_Northeast_c.6CE_PL,12.6
Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2,9.4
Iberia_Central_CA_Afr,9.2

El norteafricano un poco elevado. El resto equilibrado

Un saludo

Ruderico
08-23-2019, 10:20 AM
Muchas gracias Ruderico por la aclaración.

A ver si puedo ponerme a ello pronto y obtengo las coordenadas de Davidiski.

Un saludo.

Ya tienes tus coordenadas tío?




Ahora que tenemos referencia Asturiana he usado mi modelo para estudarla. Es virtualmente igual a mi.
Tal vez mi región de origen fue repoblada por emigrantes Asturianos en vez de Gallegos durante la alta edad média?

[1] "distance%=1.9147"

Spanish_Asturias

Celtiberian,82.6
North_African,9.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,4.8
Armenia_LBA,2.2
Suebi_proxy,0.4
Yoruba,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.9512"

Ruderico

Celtiberian,81
North_African,9.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,4.6
Armenia_LBA,3
Levant_Roman,0.8
Yoruba,0.8


[1] "distance%=1.0007"

Portuguese

Celtiberian,64.6
North_African,11
Suebi_proxy,9.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,8.8
Armenia_LBA,3.6
Levant_Roman,2.2




Edit: Los otros

[1] "distance%=1.7564"

Spanish_Navarra

Celtiberian,75.6
Suebi_proxy,9.2
North_African,5.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,5.2
Levant_Roman,4.4
Armenia_LBA,0.2


[1] "distance%=2.4158"

Spanish_Soria

Celtiberian,77
Suebi_proxy,8.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,6.4
North_African,5.4
Levant_Roman,1.6
Armenia_LBA,1


[1] "distance%=2.0097"

Spanish_La_Rioja

Celtiberian,79.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,9.4
Levant_Roman,5.8
North_African,2.8
Suebi_proxy,2.6



Es posible que el "Suebi_proxy" en Navarra sea una consequencia de Godos o migrantes/cavalleros Franceses? La referencia Visigoda muestra resultados muy cercanos

[1] "distance%=1.7888"

Spanish_Navarra

Celtiberian,77.6
Visigothic,8.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,5.2
North_African,4.8
Levant_Roman,2.4
Armenia_LBA,1.4

rober_tce
08-23-2019, 06:31 PM
Ya tienes tus coordenadas tío?




Ahora que tenemos referencia Asturiana he usado mi modelo para estudarla. Es virtualmente igual a mi.
Tal vez mi región de origen fue repoblada por emigrantes Asturianos en vez de Gallegos durante la alta edad média?

[1] "distance%=1.9147"

Spanish_Asturias

Celtiberian,82.6
North_African,9.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,4.8
Armenia_LBA,2.2
Suebi_proxy,0.4
Yoruba,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.9512"

Ruderico

Celtiberian,81
North_African,9.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,4.6
Armenia_LBA,3
Levant_Roman,0.8
Yoruba,0.8


[1] "distance%=1.0007"

Portuguese

Celtiberian,64.6
North_African,11
Suebi_proxy,9.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,8.8
Armenia_LBA,3.6
Levant_Roman,2.2




Edit: Los otros

[1] "distance%=1.7564"

Spanish_Navarra

Celtiberian,75.6
Suebi_proxy,9.2
North_African,5.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,5.2
Levant_Roman,4.4
Armenia_LBA,0.2


[1] "distance%=2.4158"

Spanish_Soria

Celtiberian,77
Suebi_proxy,8.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,6.4
North_African,5.4
Levant_Roman,1.6
Armenia_LBA,1


[1] "distance%=2.0097"

Spanish_La_Rioja

Celtiberian,79.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,9.4
Levant_Roman,5.8
North_African,2.8
Suebi_proxy,2.6



Es posible que el "Suebi_proxy" en Navarra sea una consequencia de Godos o migrantes/cavalleros Franceses? La referencia Visigoda muestra resultados muy cercanos

[1] "distance%=1.7888"

Spanish_Navarra

Celtiberian,77.6
Visigothic,8.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,5.2
North_African,4.8
Levant_Roman,2.4
Armenia_LBA,1.4

Sí ya obtuve mis coordenadas, y he estado un tiempo investigando y creando calculadoras para poder rastrear tanto la ascendencia moderna como antigua (además de usar las publicadas en este foro). Es muy útil y estoy gratamente sorprendido con los resultados que obtengo.

En cuanto a tus resultados, veo bastante factible que tu región pudiese haber sido repoblada por asturianos. Desde el Reino de Asturias en la Alta Edad Media partieron los primeros repobladores, ya que debido al crecimiento poblacional que estaban experimentando, algunos tuvieron que emigrar hacia el sur.

Respecto a los suevos, sabemos que entraron por los Pirineos junto a los vándalos y alanos, y se acabaron estableciendo en la Gallaecia. ¿Quizás dejaron un rastro genético en Navarra? Lo cierto es que es curioso que al sustituir suevos proxy por visigodos alcancen el mismo porcentaje.

Ruderico
08-23-2019, 07:40 PM
Sí ya obtuve mis coordenadas, y he estado un tiempo investigando y creando calculadoras para poder rastrear tanto la ascendencia moderna como antigua (además de usar las publicadas en este foro). Es muy útil y estoy gratamente sorprendido con los resultados que obtengo.

En cuanto a tus resultados, veo bastante factible que tu región pudiese haber sido repoblada por asturianos. Desde el Reino de Asturias en la Alta Edad Media partieron los primeros repobladores, ya que debido al crecimiento poblacional que estaban experimentando, algunos tuvieron que emigrar hacia el sur.

Respecto a los suevos, sabemos que entraron por los Pirineos junto a los vándalos y alanos, y se acabaron estableciendo en la Gallaecia. ¿Quizás dejaron un rastro genético en Navarra? Lo cierto es que es curioso que al sustituir suevos proxy por visigodos alcancen el mismo porcentaje.

Si, ya lo tenia visto cuando he corrido los modelos para los miembros Portugueses de AG, el porcentaje de Suevo y Visigodo es virtualmente el mismo. Tal vez ellos tengan algo más caracteristicamente germánico que las otras referencias no tengan? Pero esta referencia "suebi_proxy" no es verdaderamente Sueva, la he constuido con muestras exclusivamente germánicas de la alta edad media de Alemania, y Lombardos de Hungría y Italia. La referencia Visigoda es de Olalde2019, y verdaderamente Gotica.

Navarra tuvo tierras y relaciones en/con Francia, puede ser que el "suevo"/visigodo en los modelos sea una consecuencia de eso?

rober_tce
08-24-2019, 12:54 AM
Si, ya lo tenia visto cuando he corrido los modelos para los miembros Portugueses de AG, el porcentaje de Suevo y Visigodo es virtualmente el mismo. Tal vez ellos tengan algo más caracteristicamente germánico que las otras referencias no tengan? Pero esta referencia "suebi_proxy" no es verdaderamente Sueva, la he constuido con muestras exclusivamente germánicas de la alta edad media de Alemania, y Lombardos de Hungría y Italia. La referencia Visigoda es de Olalde2019, y verdaderamente Gotica.

Navarra tuvo tierras y relaciones en/con Francia, puede ser que el "suevo"/visigodo en los modelos sea una consecuencia de eso?

Entonces la muestra combinada que has hecho de suevo proxy vendría a corroborar que en su composición serían similares a la muestra goda, además los propios godos pasaron desde Götaland (o eso se cree) al este de Europa, y luego hacia el oeste, por lo cual podrían haberse mezclado con algunas poblaciones germanas de la zona (esto es especulación por mi parte).

Navarra es cierto que tuvo una estrecha relación con Francia a lo largo de su historia. En la Galia se asentaron los francos, germanos que provenían de la Baja Renania y Westfalia, y en su avance sobre el oeste presionaron a los visigodos de Tolosa y los expulsaron de Aquitania-Narbonense y se asentaron en Hispania. En el año 824 se funda el Reino de Pamplona, en un territorio que pertenecía anteriormente a la Marca Hispánica que Carlomagno constituyó entre el Ebro y los Pirineos. El Reino de Francia que surge tras la partición del Imperio Carolingio a consecuencia del Tratado de Verdún en el 843 seguía siendo franco. Por lo tanto, tiene lógica en mi opinión que la genética de los francos (en definitiva germana) haya influido en los territorios del norte de la Península ibérica, específicamente los que siguen a los Pirineos. Luego en el devenir de los siglos las relaciones entre Navarra y Francia continuaron.

Ruderico
08-24-2019, 01:25 AM
Entonces la muestra combinada que has hecho de suevo proxy vendría a corroborar que en su composición serían similares a la muestra goda, además los propios godos pasaron desde Götaland (o eso se cree) al este de Europa, y luego hacia el oeste, por lo cual podrían haberse mezclado con algunas poblaciones germanas de la zona (esto es especulación por mi parte).

Navarra es cierto que tuvo una estrecha relación con Francia a lo largo de su historia. En la Galia se asentaron los francos, germanos que provenían de la Baja Renania y Westfalia, y en su avance sobre el oeste presionaron a los visigodos de Tolosa y los expulsaron de Aquitania-Narbonense y se asentaron en Hispania. En el año 824 se funda el Reino de Pamplona, en un territorio que pertenecía anteriormente a la Marca Hispánica que Carlomagno constituyó entre el Ebro y los Pirineos. El Reino de Francia que surge tras la partición del Imperio Carolingio a consecuencia del Tratado de Verdún en el 843 seguía siendo franco. Por lo tanto, tiene lógica en mi opinión que la genética de los francos (en definitiva germana) haya influido en los territorios del norte de la Península ibérica, específicamente los que siguen a los Pirineos. Luego en el devenir de los siglos las relaciones entre Navarra y Francia continuaron.

Si, los Visigodos de Olalde son un poco mezclados con grupos de Sudeste Europeo. Uno de ellos (I12034) era Vasco, o Francés del Sur, pero lo he quitado de mi referencia média Goda. Cuanto al resto estoy de acuerdo contigo.





Bueno, he decidido postar resultados de mis modelos "standard" que uso para estudar muestras de Portugueses. Son versiones mejoradas de los que he postado antes.
Voy a incluir el código para que lo puedan ver y/o cambiar algo si quieren (quitar Yoruba me parece bien). Pueden correr estes modelos y postar sus resultados para compararmos. He usado penalidade standard y coordenadas regulares/unscaled.

Aqui unos plots de G25, primero solo son medias del suroeste Europeo, el segundo con todas las referencias del oeste Euroasiatico (el más relevante).
https://i.postimg.cc/c0n2PtPf/g25iberiaaverage.png
https://i.postimg.cc/2kXvd6w5/g25-westeurasia-iberiazoom.png
Aquí un hierarchical cluster, porque no? (https://i.postimg.cc/KZzK8bPr/euclidean-cluster.png)


Por hoy (ya es tarde) el modelo com muestras de la edad de bronze, con excepción del nordafricano que es la média Guanche medieval. Por veces la referencia germánica "come" el Ibérico o Celta, pero eso probablemente significa que la muestra testada tiene mayor afinidade con los germánicos do que los otros individuos. Es el caso de Galicia, por ejemplo. El mismo se puede pasar con las referencias mediterranicas.
Para mi el importante es ver las variaciones regionales, cuales las referencias mejores y cuales tienen más o menos nordafricano y mediterranico (mycenas+levante+armenia).

Una nota: la referencia Celta es de Chequia y solo incluye una muestra. Referencias individuales pueden ser muy buenas o muy malas para personas diferentes, por lo tanto yo evito usarlas, una referencia média generalmente elimina estas variaciones. Pero aquí no puedo hacer nada, la otra muestra Celta Continental esta mezclada con algo más Asiático (Cita o asi).
Es bueno ver que la referencia Vasca prefiere el Iberia_BA al Celta, como seria de esperar, pero naturalmente los Vascos no son Ibéricos de la edad del bronze, tienen algo mas centro Europeo que sus antepasados. Pero extrañamente Soria y La Rioja no se quedan con Hallstatt...puede ser que la referencia no es buena para ellos.


,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Mycenaean,0.009475,0.0154,-0.00215,-0.020025,0.00705,-0.009725,-0.000225,-0.000925,0.00265,0.025975,0.0034,0.0113,-0.0086,-0.00045,-0.012075,-0.0074,0.016125,0.00285,0.0098,-0.003175,-0.0047,0.00015,-0.00535,0.00095,-6e-04
Iberia_BA,0.0112,0.01525,0.0144,-2e-04,0.022,0.0013,-0.00095,8e-04,0.0194,0.0301,-9e-04,0.00475,-0.0142,-0.0176,0.00645,0.00135,-0.00045,0.00235,0.00155,0.0027,0.00485,-0.00075,-0.00725,-0.01265,0.00885
Hallstatt_Celt:DA111,0.0109,0.0149,0.0168,0.0081,0 .0142,0.0021,0.0005,0.001,0.0102,0.0134,-0.0076,0.0001,-0.0112,-0.0023,0.0108,-0.0072,-0.014,0.003,0.0047,0.0013,0.0079,0.0049,-0.0036,-0.0049,-0.0044
Nordic_BA,0.0103,0.0136667,0.0177333,0.0172333,0.0 098,0.0085333,0.0049667,0.0007667,-0.0004667,-0.0020667,-0.0015333,0.0024667,-0.0038667,-0.0101333,0.0104333,0.0083333,0.0082667,0.0033667, 0.0052,0.0022667,0.0091667,-0.0039667,0.0022,-0.0017333,-0.0062333
Armenia_MBA,0.0091,0.01205,-0.0084,-0.0041,-0.0114,-0.001,0.0014,-0.00285,-0.0262,-0.01035,0.00255,0,-0.00515,0.00125,0.01025,-2e-04,0.00065,-0.0029,0.00045,-1e-04,0.00435,0.00105,0.0044,-0.00065,8e-04
North_African,-0.00346,0.01294,-0.00062,-0.02128,0.01096,-0.01304,-0.01276,0.00358,0.03466,0.01676,0.00466,-0.004,0.01228,-0.01286,0.0171,-0.00984,0.00244,-0.01516,-0.03526,0.00832,-0.0108,-0.0305,0.01888,-0.00098,0.00386
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,0.00714,0.01446,-0.01626,-0.03032,-0.00342,-0.01396,-0.00204,-0.00286,0.0056,0.00558,0.00646,-0.00652,0.01452,0.004,-0.00558,0.00492,-0.00012,-0.00094,0.0012,0.0034,0.00342,0.0061,-0.00102,0.00132,-0.00042
Yoruba,-0.0553545,0.0061545,0.0058636,0.0051727,0.0001636, 0.0044727,-0.0189,0.0207,-0.0239,0.0179818,0.0028455,0.0005273,0.0155091,0.0 006909,0.0092273,-0.0072455,0.0054273,0.0003545,0.0047909,-0.0023909,0.0012455,0.0018727,-0.0014273,-0.0003909,-0.0003545



[1] "distance%=1.1419"

Spanish_Galicia

Iberia_BA,46.4
Nordic_BA,29
North_African,10.4
Mycenaean,7
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,4
Armenia_MBA,3
Yoruba,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.989"

Portuguese

Iberia_BA,32.4
Hallstatt_Celt,25.6
Nordic_BA,13
North_African,11.8
Mycenaean,8.2
Armenia_MBA,5.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3.4


[1] "distance%=1.5497"

Spanish_Asturias

Hallstatt_Celt,60.6
Iberia_BA,25
North_African,9.4
Mycenaean,2.8
Armenia_MBA,1.8
Yoruba,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.2471"

Spanish_Cantabria

Iberia_BA,44.8
Hallstatt_Celt,26.4
Nordic_BA,12.2
Mycenaean,7.2
North_African,4.6
Armenia_MBA,2.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.2


[1] "distance%=1.0138"

Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon

Hallstatt_Celt,46.4
Iberia_BA,24.4
North_African,10
Nordic_BA,6.6
Mycenaean,6.4
Armenia_MBA,3.2
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.8
Yoruba,0.2


[1] "distance%=1.7559"

Spanish_Soria

Iberia_BA,54.6
Nordic_BA,33.4
Mycenaean,7.6
North_African,4.2
Armenia_MBA,0.2


[1] "distance%=1.5914"

Spanish_La_Rioja

Iberia_BA,64.2
Nordic_BA,16.4
Mycenaean,10.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3.4
North_African,2.6
Hallstatt_Celt,2
Armenia_MBA,0.8


[1] "distance%=1.6555"

Spanish_Navarra

Iberia_BA,49.8
Hallstatt_Celt,22.6
Nordic_BA,10.4
North_African,5.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,4.6
Armenia_MBA,3.6
Mycenaean,2.6
Yoruba,0.6


[1] "distance%=1.0601"

Basque_Spanish

Iberia_BA,68
Hallstatt_Celt,25.6
Nordic_BA,5.4
North_African,0.6
Armenia_MBA,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.1446"

Spanish_Pais_Vasco

Hallstatt_Celt,51.4
Iberia_BA,45.8
North_African,1.4
Armenia_MBA,1
Mycenaean,0.4


[1] "distance%=0.9542"

Spanish_Aragon

Hallstatt_Celt,38.2
Iberia_BA,36.4
Mycenaean,8.8
North_African,6.6
Nordic_BA,6.2
Armenia_MBA,2.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,1


[1] "distance%=0.7867"

Spanish_Pirineu

Iberia_BA,43.6
Hallstatt_Celt,24.6
Nordic_BA,10.4
Mycenaean,9.2
North_African,6.8
Armenia_MBA,3.4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2


[1] "distance%=0.9344"

Spanish_Girona

Iberia_BA,32
Hallstatt_Celt,22.4
Nordic_BA,21.8
Mycenaean,12.2
North_African,5
Armenia_MBA,3.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.8
Yoruba,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.8873"

Spanish_Catalunya_Central

Iberia_BA,35.2
Hallstatt_Celt,24.8
Nordic_BA,20
Mycenaean,8.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,4.2
North_African,4
Armenia_MBA,3


[1] "distance%=0.8959"

Spanish_Cataluna

Iberia_BA,37.4
Hallstatt_Celt,26
Nordic_BA,16.8
Mycenaean,7.8
North_African,6.4
Armenia_MBA,2.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.6
Yoruba,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.6397"

Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre

Hallstatt_Celt,42
Iberia_BA,29.6
Mycenaean,10.6
Nordic_BA,6
North_African,5.6
Armenia_MBA,4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2
Yoruba,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.8696"

Spanish_Castello

Iberia_BA,45.8
Hallstatt_Celt,18.4
Nordic_BA,16
Mycenaean,11.6
North_African,3.4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.8
Armenia_MBA,2


[1] "distance%=1.1164"

Spanish_Alacant

Iberia_BA,39
Hallstatt_Celt,24.8
Nordic_BA,12
Mycenaean,8.6
North_African,6.8
Armenia_MBA,5.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.8
Yoruba,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.7492"

Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha

Hallstatt_Celt,39.2
Iberia_BA,33.4
Mycenaean,9
Nordic_BA,6.2
North_African,5.4
Armenia_MBA,3.4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3.4


[1] "distance%=0.6169"

Spanish_Murcia

Iberia_BA,36
Hallstatt_Celt,24.6
Mycenaean,13.6
Nordic_BA,11.8
North_African,6.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,4.4
Armenia_MBA,2.8


[1] "distance%=0.8535"

Spanish_Andalucia

Iberia_BA,32.2
Hallstatt_Celt,30.6
Mycenaean,10.6
Nordic_BA,9
North_African,7.4
Armenia_MBA,7
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3.2


[1] "distance%=0.8491"

Spanish_Extremadura

Iberia_BA,37.8
Hallstatt_Celt,20.2
Nordic_BA,13
North_African,10.6
Mycenaean,7.2
Armenia_MBA,6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,5
Yoruba,0.2

Ahora unos estranjeros. Aunque los modelos no han sido hechos para ellos es interessante ver como son sus resultados para comparar.
Los Franceses tienen mucho mas nordico/germanico que nosotros, sin sorpresa. El nordafricano es ruido (creo que los valores de los modelos son un poco mayores al real). Yo soy siempre muy escéptico de porcentajes bajas, pero me parece claro que hasta ellos tienen algo mediterranico (Armenia+Mycenas+Levante ~= 13%), possiblemente del periodo Romano. Los Milaneses son muchissimo mediterranicos, tambien era lo esperado.

[1] "distance%=1.2192"

French

Hallstatt_Celt,36.4
Nordic_BA,35.6
Iberia_BA,11.6
Mycenaean,6.2
Armenia_MBA,5
North_African,3.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,1.6


[1] "distance%=0.9881"

Italian_Bergamo

Mycenaean,39
Hallstatt_Celt,36.2
Nordic_BA,9.2
Iberia_BA,7
Armenia_MBA,4.4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.4
North_African,1.8


Y ahora los resultados de Magovalle, yo e mi novia

[1] "distance%=1.5953"

Ruderico

Hallstatt_Celt,64.4
Iberia_BA,16.4
North_African,10.2
Mycenaean,6
Armenia_MBA,1.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,1
Yoruba,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.5105"

MrsRuderico

Iberia_BA,39.4
Hallstatt_Celt,19.2
Nordic_BA,14.6
North_African,13.8
Mycenaean,8.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2
Armenia_MBA,1.6
Yoruba,0.8


[1] "distance%=1.3421"

Magovalle

Hallstatt_Celt,49.4
Iberia_BA,33.4
North_African,8
Armenia_MBA,4.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.8
Mycenaean,1.2
Yoruba,0.4


Edit: Algunas muestras historicas

[1] "distance%=2.1525"

Iberia_East_IA:I3322

Iberia_BA,52
Hallstatt_Celt,48


[1] "distance%=1.5127"

Iberia_North_IA:I3758

Hallstatt_Celt,64
Iberia_BA,33.6
North_African,2.4


[1] "distance%=1.4703"

Iberia_Southeast_c.3-4CE:I3982

Hallstatt_Celt,42.2
Iberia_BA,21.2
North_African,20.8
Mycenaean,9
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,6.8


[1] "distance%=1.3117"

Germany_Roman:FN_2

Iberia_BA,41.4
Nordic_BA,25
Mycenaean,21.2
Hallstatt_Celt,8.2
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,1.8
Armenia_MBA,1.4
North_African,1


[1] "distance%=1.9585"

Zanzibar_800CE_Iberian:I0588

Iberia_BA,45.8
Hallstatt_Celt,15
Nordic_BA,11.6
Mycenaean,9.8
North_African,9.8
Armenia_MBA,5
Yoruba,3


[1] "distance%=1.6542"

Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10892

Hallstatt_Celt,63.8
Iberia_BA,10.8
Mycenaean,9.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,6.8
North_African,6.4
Armenia_MBA,2.2
Yoruba,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.9643"

Iberia_Southeast_c.10-16CE:I8146

North_African,33
Mycenaean,26.4
Iberia_BA,23.6
Nordic_BA,6.8
Hallstatt_Celt,5
Armenia_MBA,2.8
Yoruba,2.4

rober_tce
08-24-2019, 10:14 AM
Aquí están mis resultados con penalización estandar:

[1] "distance%=1.1614"

rober_tce

Iberia_BA,43.8
Hallstatt_Celt,20.2
Nordic_BA,11.8
Mycenaean,9.4
North_African,8
Armenia_MBA,3.4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3
Yoruba,0.4


También los hice con pen=0:

[1] "distance%=1.1238"

rober_tce

Iberia_BA,45.4
Hallstatt_Celt,17.2
Armenia_MBA,9.8
Nordic_BA,9.8
North_African,9.2
Mycenaean,8.6

Curiosamente en mi caso no varían demasiado con una penalización estandar y con valor 0.

Ruderico
08-24-2019, 10:22 AM
Resultado muy cercano de mi novia, auque menos nordafricano :) edit: ella es de un puebo cerca de norte de Extremadura
A ver si aun hoy posto un modelo de la edad de hierro. Voy a tentar incluir una referencia con muestras Iberas, para las regiones/individuos que son menos cercanos a los Celtiberos de Laguardia, Álava

rober_tce
08-24-2019, 11:35 AM
Tengo una duda desde que estoy con el G25... ¿que es mejor modelar con Pen=0 o Pen=0.001? ¿Depende del modelo que hagas, o siempre es preferible una penalización estándar? He podido comprobar cuando hago calculadoras que cuando uso la estándar en muestras modernas, esta "suaviza" los resultados y si utilizo Pen=0 me muestra mayor información. Pero imagino que será dependiendo de cómo hagas las muestras también...

Ruderico
08-24-2019, 12:05 PM
Como base usa siempre pen=0.001. Solo en casos con componentes muy distinctas se debe usar pen=0. Con muestras viejas pen=0.001 ayuda a tener modelos mas realistas porque las muestras tienen mas ruido, aunque la distancia sea siempre un poquito peor. Pen=0.001 tambien te da resultados que varian um poco, yo corro mis modelos unas 3 o 4 veces y copio el mejor fit.
O entonces con coordenadas scaled, pero yo nunca las uso porque metedologicamente no son muy correctas

rober_tce
08-24-2019, 12:39 PM
Gracias Ruderico por la aclaración. Ahora entiendo por qué los modelos con muestras antiguas salen mejor con la penalización estándar. Cuando uso poblaciones modernas suelo comparar muestras muy dispares, esa debe ser la razón que en ocasiones me salga bien con pen=0.

sweuro
08-24-2019, 01:03 PM
Si, los Visigodos de Olalde son un poco mezclados con grupos de Sudeste Europeo. Uno de ellos (I12034) era Vasco, o Francés del Sur, pero lo he quitado de mi referencia média Goda. Cuanto al resto estoy de acuerdo contigo.





Bueno, he decidido postar resultados de mis modelos "standard" que uso para estudar muestras de Portugueses. Son versiones mejoradas de los que he postado antes.
Voy a incluir el código para que lo puedan ver y/o cambiar algo si quieren (quitar Yoruba me parece bien). Pueden correr estes modelos y postar sus resultados para compararmos. He usado penalidade standard y coordenadas regulares/unscaled.

Aqui unos plots de G25, primero solo son medias del suroeste Europeo, el segundo con todas las referencias del oeste Euroasiatico (el más relevante).
https://i.postimg.cc/c0n2PtPf/g25iberiaaverage.png
https://i.postimg.cc/2kXvd6w5/g25-westeurasia-iberiazoom.png
Aquí un hierarchical cluster, porque no? (https://i.postimg.cc/KZzK8bPr/euclidean-cluster.png)


Por hoy (ya es tarde) el modelo com muestras de la edad de bronze, con excepción del nordafricano que es la média Guanche medieval. Por veces la referencia germánica "come" el Ibérico o Celta, pero eso probablemente significa que la muestra testada tiene mayor afinidade con los germánicos do que los otros individuos. Es el caso de Galicia, por ejemplo. El mismo se puede pasar con las referencias mediterranicas.
Para mi el importante es ver las variaciones regionales, cuales las referencias mejores y cuales tienen más o menos nordafricano y mediterranico (mycenas+levante+armenia).

Una nota: la referencia Celta es de Chequia y solo incluye una muestra. Referencias individuales pueden ser muy buenas o muy malas para personas diferentes, por lo tanto yo evito usarlas, una referencia média generalmente elimina estas variaciones. Pero aquí no puedo hacer nada, la otra muestra Celta Continental esta mezclada con algo más Asiático (Cita o asi).
Es bueno ver que la referencia Vasca prefiere el Iberia_BA al Celta, como seria de esperar, pero naturalmente los Vascos no son Ibéricos de la edad del bronze, tienen algo mas centro Europeo que sus antepasados. Pero extrañamente Soria y La Rioja no se quedan con Hallstatt...puede ser que la referencia no es buena para ellos.


,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Mycenaean,0.009475,0.0154,-0.00215,-0.020025,0.00705,-0.009725,-0.000225,-0.000925,0.00265,0.025975,0.0034,0.0113,-0.0086,-0.00045,-0.012075,-0.0074,0.016125,0.00285,0.0098,-0.003175,-0.0047,0.00015,-0.00535,0.00095,-6e-04
Iberia_BA,0.0112,0.01525,0.0144,-2e-04,0.022,0.0013,-0.00095,8e-04,0.0194,0.0301,-9e-04,0.00475,-0.0142,-0.0176,0.00645,0.00135,-0.00045,0.00235,0.00155,0.0027,0.00485,-0.00075,-0.00725,-0.01265,0.00885
Hallstatt_Celt:DA111,0.0109,0.0149,0.0168,0.0081,0 .0142,0.0021,0.0005,0.001,0.0102,0.0134,-0.0076,0.0001,-0.0112,-0.0023,0.0108,-0.0072,-0.014,0.003,0.0047,0.0013,0.0079,0.0049,-0.0036,-0.0049,-0.0044
Nordic_BA,0.0103,0.0136667,0.0177333,0.0172333,0.0 098,0.0085333,0.0049667,0.0007667,-0.0004667,-0.0020667,-0.0015333,0.0024667,-0.0038667,-0.0101333,0.0104333,0.0083333,0.0082667,0.0033667, 0.0052,0.0022667,0.0091667,-0.0039667,0.0022,-0.0017333,-0.0062333
Armenia_MBA,0.0091,0.01205,-0.0084,-0.0041,-0.0114,-0.001,0.0014,-0.00285,-0.0262,-0.01035,0.00255,0,-0.00515,0.00125,0.01025,-2e-04,0.00065,-0.0029,0.00045,-1e-04,0.00435,0.00105,0.0044,-0.00065,8e-04
North_African,-0.00346,0.01294,-0.00062,-0.02128,0.01096,-0.01304,-0.01276,0.00358,0.03466,0.01676,0.00466,-0.004,0.01228,-0.01286,0.0171,-0.00984,0.00244,-0.01516,-0.03526,0.00832,-0.0108,-0.0305,0.01888,-0.00098,0.00386
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,0.00714,0.01446,-0.01626,-0.03032,-0.00342,-0.01396,-0.00204,-0.00286,0.0056,0.00558,0.00646,-0.00652,0.01452,0.004,-0.00558,0.00492,-0.00012,-0.00094,0.0012,0.0034,0.00342,0.0061,-0.00102,0.00132,-0.00042
Yoruba,-0.0553545,0.0061545,0.0058636,0.0051727,0.0001636, 0.0044727,-0.0189,0.0207,-0.0239,0.0179818,0.0028455,0.0005273,0.0155091,0.0 006909,0.0092273,-0.0072455,0.0054273,0.0003545,0.0047909,-0.0023909,0.0012455,0.0018727,-0.0014273,-0.0003909,-0.0003545



[1] "distance%=1.1419"

Spanish_Galicia

Iberia_BA,46.4
Nordic_BA,29
North_African,10.4
Mycenaean,7
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,4
Armenia_MBA,3
Yoruba,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.989"

Portuguese

Iberia_BA,32.4
Hallstatt_Celt,25.6
Nordic_BA,13
North_African,11.8
Mycenaean,8.2
Armenia_MBA,5.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3.4


[1] "distance%=1.5497"

Spanish_Asturias

Hallstatt_Celt,60.6
Iberia_BA,25
North_African,9.4
Mycenaean,2.8
Armenia_MBA,1.8
Yoruba,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.2471"

Spanish_Cantabria

Iberia_BA,44.8
Hallstatt_Celt,26.4
Nordic_BA,12.2
Mycenaean,7.2
North_African,4.6
Armenia_MBA,2.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.2


[1] "distance%=1.0138"

Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon

Hallstatt_Celt,46.4
Iberia_BA,24.4
North_African,10
Nordic_BA,6.6
Mycenaean,6.4
Armenia_MBA,3.2
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.8
Yoruba,0.2


[1] "distance%=1.7559"

Spanish_Soria

Iberia_BA,54.6
Nordic_BA,33.4
Mycenaean,7.6
North_African,4.2
Armenia_MBA,0.2


[1] "distance%=1.5914"

Spanish_La_Rioja

Iberia_BA,64.2
Nordic_BA,16.4
Mycenaean,10.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3.4
North_African,2.6
Hallstatt_Celt,2
Armenia_MBA,0.8


[1] "distance%=1.6555"

Spanish_Navarra

Iberia_BA,49.8
Hallstatt_Celt,22.6
Nordic_BA,10.4
North_African,5.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,4.6
Armenia_MBA,3.6
Mycenaean,2.6
Yoruba,0.6


[1] "distance%=1.0601"

Basque_Spanish

Iberia_BA,68
Hallstatt_Celt,25.6
Nordic_BA,5.4
North_African,0.6
Armenia_MBA,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.1446"

Spanish_Pais_Vasco

Hallstatt_Celt,51.4
Iberia_BA,45.8
North_African,1.4
Armenia_MBA,1
Mycenaean,0.4


[1] "distance%=0.9542"

Spanish_Aragon

Hallstatt_Celt,38.2
Iberia_BA,36.4
Mycenaean,8.8
North_African,6.6
Nordic_BA,6.2
Armenia_MBA,2.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,1


[1] "distance%=0.7867"

Spanish_Pirineu

Iberia_BA,43.6
Hallstatt_Celt,24.6
Nordic_BA,10.4
Mycenaean,9.2
North_African,6.8
Armenia_MBA,3.4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2


[1] "distance%=0.9344"

Spanish_Girona

Iberia_BA,32
Hallstatt_Celt,22.4
Nordic_BA,21.8
Mycenaean,12.2
North_African,5
Armenia_MBA,3.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.8
Yoruba,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.8873"

Spanish_Catalunya_Central

Iberia_BA,35.2
Hallstatt_Celt,24.8
Nordic_BA,20
Mycenaean,8.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,4.2
North_African,4
Armenia_MBA,3


[1] "distance%=0.8959"

Spanish_Cataluna

Iberia_BA,37.4
Hallstatt_Celt,26
Nordic_BA,16.8
Mycenaean,7.8
North_African,6.4
Armenia_MBA,2.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.6
Yoruba,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.6397"

Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre

Hallstatt_Celt,42
Iberia_BA,29.6
Mycenaean,10.6
Nordic_BA,6
North_African,5.6
Armenia_MBA,4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2
Yoruba,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.8696"

Spanish_Castello

Iberia_BA,45.8
Hallstatt_Celt,18.4
Nordic_BA,16
Mycenaean,11.6
North_African,3.4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.8
Armenia_MBA,2


[1] "distance%=1.1164"

Spanish_Alacant

Iberia_BA,39
Hallstatt_Celt,24.8
Nordic_BA,12
Mycenaean,8.6
North_African,6.8
Armenia_MBA,5.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.8
Yoruba,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.7492"

Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha

Hallstatt_Celt,39.2
Iberia_BA,33.4
Mycenaean,9
Nordic_BA,6.2
North_African,5.4
Armenia_MBA,3.4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3.4


[1] "distance%=0.6169"

Spanish_Murcia

Iberia_BA,36
Hallstatt_Celt,24.6
Mycenaean,13.6
Nordic_BA,11.8
North_African,6.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,4.4
Armenia_MBA,2.8


[1] "distance%=0.8535"

Spanish_Andalucia

Iberia_BA,32.2
Hallstatt_Celt,30.6
Mycenaean,10.6
Nordic_BA,9
North_African,7.4
Armenia_MBA,7
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3.2


[1] "distance%=0.8491"

Spanish_Extremadura

Iberia_BA,37.8
Hallstatt_Celt,20.2
Nordic_BA,13
North_African,10.6
Mycenaean,7.2
Armenia_MBA,6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,5
Yoruba,0.2

Ahora unos estranjeros. Aunque los modelos no han sido hechos para ellos es interessante ver como son sus resultados para comparar.
Los Franceses tienen mucho mas nordico/germanico que nosotros, sin sorpresa. El nordafricano es ruido (creo que los valores de los modelos son un poco mayores al real). Yo soy siempre muy escéptico de porcentajes bajas, pero me parece claro que hasta ellos tienen algo mediterranico (Armenia+Mycenas+Levante ~= 13%), possiblemente del periodo Romano. Los Milaneses son muchissimo mediterranicos, tambien era lo esperado.

[1] "distance%=1.2192"

French

Hallstatt_Celt,36.4
Nordic_BA,35.6
Iberia_BA,11.6
Mycenaean,6.2
Armenia_MBA,5
North_African,3.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,1.6


[1] "distance%=0.9881"

Italian_Bergamo

Mycenaean,39
Hallstatt_Celt,36.2
Nordic_BA,9.2
Iberia_BA,7
Armenia_MBA,4.4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.4
North_African,1.8


Y ahora los resultados de Magovalle, yo e mi novia

[1] "distance%=1.5953"

Ruderico

Hallstatt_Celt,64.4
Iberia_BA,16.4
North_African,10.2
Mycenaean,6
Armenia_MBA,1.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,1
Yoruba,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.5105"

MrsRuderico

Iberia_BA,39.4
Hallstatt_Celt,19.2
Nordic_BA,14.6
North_African,13.8
Mycenaean,8.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2
Armenia_MBA,1.6
Yoruba,0.8


[1] "distance%=1.3421"

Magovalle

Hallstatt_Celt,49.4
Iberia_BA,33.4
North_African,8
Armenia_MBA,4.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.8
Mycenaean,1.2
Yoruba,0.4


Edit: Algunas muestras historicas

[1] "distance%=2.1525"

Iberia_East_IA:I3322

Iberia_BA,52
Hallstatt_Celt,48


[1] "distance%=1.5127"

Iberia_North_IA:I3758

Hallstatt_Celt,64
Iberia_BA,33.6
North_African,2.4


[1] "distance%=1.4703"

Iberia_Southeast_c.3-4CE:I3982

Hallstatt_Celt,42.2
Iberia_BA,21.2
North_African,20.8
Mycenaean,9
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,6.8


[1] "distance%=1.3117"

Germany_Roman:FN_2

Iberia_BA,41.4
Nordic_BA,25
Mycenaean,21.2
Hallstatt_Celt,8.2
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,1.8
Armenia_MBA,1.4
North_African,1


[1] "distance%=1.9585"

Zanzibar_800CE_Iberian:I0588

Iberia_BA,45.8
Hallstatt_Celt,15
Nordic_BA,11.6
Mycenaean,9.8
North_African,9.8
Armenia_MBA,5
Yoruba,3


[1] "distance%=1.6542"

Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10892

Hallstatt_Celt,63.8
Iberia_BA,10.8
Mycenaean,9.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,6.8
North_African,6.4
Armenia_MBA,2.2
Yoruba,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.9643"

Iberia_Southeast_c.10-16CE:I8146

North_African,33
Mycenaean,26.4
Iberia_BA,23.6
Nordic_BA,6.8
Hallstatt_Celt,5
Armenia_MBA,2.8
Yoruba,2.4

El componente north-african parece demasiado elevado, incluso los Franceses obtienen 3.6% cuando deberian tener cerca de 0%

Ruderico
08-24-2019, 01:14 PM
El componente north-african parece demasiado elevado, incluso los Franceses obtienen 3.6% cuando deberian tener cerca de 0%

Fue lo que he dicho, pero el valor me parece correcto, o al menos cercano (https://media.springernature.com/lw900/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1038%2Fs41467-018-08272-w/MediaObjects/41467_2018_8272_Fig5_HTML.png), para muchas referencias. Pero este modelo no es para Franceses ni Italianos, no me preocupa su valor de North African.
Tambien hay que considerar la variacion personal, cada referencia solo tiene 3 o 5 muestras, es muy poco, pero es lo que tenemos

Magovalle
08-26-2019, 10:10 AM
Fue lo que he dicho, pero el valor me parece correcto, o al menos cercano (https://media.springernature.com/lw900/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1038%2Fs41467-018-08272-w/MediaObjects/41467_2018_8272_Fig5_HTML.png), para muchas referencias. Pero este modelo no es para Franceses ni Italianos, no me preocupa su valor de North African.
Tambien hay que considerar la variacion personal, cada referencia solo tiene 3 o 5 muestras, es muy poco, pero es lo que tenemos

Hola, amigo:

Quiero que le eches un vistazo a esto. En mi caso el componente escandinavo está presente de alguna manera en mi genética. Tal vez la referencia Nordic_BA no sea la más precisa para definir los marcadores godos que llevamos algunos ibéricos. Aparecen diluidos dentro de la referencia de los celtas de Hallstaat. Nordic_BA es un modelo efectivo para la Edad del Bronce. En mi caso se verifica que si tomo como referencia Swe_IA. Aparecen mis marcadores escandinavos en detrimento de lo céltico. Esto indica que, probablemente, Swe_IA constituya un modelo de referencia más puro y fiable para definir lo visigótico. Al sustituirlo en el modelo de referencia consigo una combinación de poblaciones a una distancia inferior regularizando el modelo con una penalización estándar para acercar el valor de mi primera coordenada a la del modelo de referencia que me da este resultado. Cierto que aunque el fit es ligeramente peor (98.855 pct con Swe_IA frente al 99.975 pct con Nordic_BA en la PC1) consigo que aparezcan mis marcadores escandinavos:

> source("nMonte3.R (ph2ter)")
> getMonte("input.txt","target_sin escalar.txt",pen=0.001)

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"

Hallstatt_Celt:DA111 Iberia_BA Nordic_BA Mycenaean Armenia_MBA Levant_Canaanite_MBA North_African Yoruba
0.2422705 0.2884601 0.4358808 0.5171006 0.6047289 0.6131755 0.7280023 0.8869365


[1] "2. FULL TABLE nMONTE"

[1] "penalty= 0.001"
[1] "Ncycles= 1000"

PC1 PC2 PC3 PC4 PC5 PC6 PC7 PC8 PC9 PC10 PC11 PC12 PC13 PC14
Martin 0.009500000 0.013900000 0.010400000 -0.0023000000 0.013000000 -0.0006000000 -0.0019000 -0.0003000 0.0128000 0.014700000 0.000800000 0.005500000 -0.0088000000 -0.013000000
fitted 0.009502291 0.014709909 0.012193527 0.0008819454 0.014701727 -0.0001762546 -0.0011234 0.0008642 0.0132458 0.018077164 -0.003356309 0.001274255 -0.0091727818 -0.007782418
dif 0.000002291 0.000809909 0.001793527 0.0031819454 0.001701727 0.0004237454 0.0007766 0.0011642 0.0004458 0.003377164 -0.004156309 -0.004225745 -0.0003727818 0.005217582
PC15 PC16 PC17 PC18 PC19 PC20 PC21 PC22 PC23 PC24 PC25
Martin 0.010300000 -0.004800000 -0.012200000 0.001200000 -0.0029000000 -0.003200000 0.006300000 -0.0010000000 -0.0016000000 -0.004100000 0.003200000
fitted 0.008992455 -0.003938491 -0.006658545 0.000948509 0.0002597818 0.002243218 0.004898091 -0.0000006546 -0.0025930546 -0.006652182 0.001023891
dif -0.001307545 0.000861509 0.005541455 -0.000251491 0.0031597818 0.005443218 -0.001401909 0.0009993454 -0.0009930546 -0.002552182 -0.002176109

[1] "distance%=1.346" PC1=>99.975 PCT

Martin

Hallstatt_Celt,50
Iberia_BA,32.8
North_African,8
Armenia_MBA,4.4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3
Mycenaean,1.6
Yoruba,0.2

> source("nMonte3.R (ph2ter)")
> getMonte("input.txt","target_sin escalar.txt",pen=0.001)

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"

Hallstatt_Celt:DA111 Iberia_BA SWE_IA Mycenaean Armenia_MBA Levant_Canaanite_MBA North_African Yoruba
0.2422705 0.2884601 0.4238891 0.5171006 0.6047289 0.6131755 0.7280023 0.8869365


[1] "2. FULL TABLE nMONTE"
[1] "penalty= 0.001"
[1] "Ncycles= 1000"

PC1 PC2 PC3 PC4 PC5 PC6 PC7 PC8 PC9 PC10 PC11 PC12 PC13 PC14 PC15
Martin 0.00950000 0.01390000 0.01040000 -0.00230000 0.01300000 -0.00060000 -0.00190000 -0.00030000 0.0128000 0.01470000 0.00080000 0.00550000 -0.00880000 -0.0130000 0.01030000
fitted 0.00960994 0.01451576 0.01218184 0.00136358 0.01495328 0.00015974 -0.00099304 0.00102104 0.0131966 0.01688488 -0.00231354 0.00127918 -0.00842438 -0.0077555 0.00925262
dif 0.00010994 0.00061576 0.00178184 0.00366358 0.00195328 0.00075974 0.00090696 0.00132104 0.0003966 0.00218488 -0.00311354 -0.00422082 0.00037562 0.0052445 -0.00104738
PC16 PC17 PC18 PC19 PC20 PC21 PC22 PC23 PC24 PC25
Martin -0.00480000 -0.01220000 0.00120000 -0.0029000 -0.0032000 0.00630000 -0.0010000 -0.00160000 -0.00410000 0.00320000
fitted -0.00337078 -0.00638322 0.00111686 0.0003368 0.0022971 0.00425732 -0.0002782 -0.00223182 -0.00563968 0.00179298
dif 0.00142922 0.00581678 -0.00008314 0.0032368 0.0054971 -0.00204268 0.0007218 -0.00063182 -0.00153968 -0.00140702

[1] "distance%=1.3083" PC1=>98.855 PCT

Martin

Hallstatt_Celt,39
Iberia_BA,35.8
SWE_IA,8.8
North_African,8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,4.6
Armenia_MBA,3.4
Mycenaean,0.4

Un saludo amigo

Ruderico
08-26-2019, 10:25 AM
Hola, amigo:

Quiero que le eches un vistazo a esto. En mi caso el componente escandinavo está presente de alguna manera en mi genética. Tal vez la referencia Nordic_BA no sea la más precisa para definir los marcadores godos que llevamos algunos ibéricos. Aparecen diluidos dentro de la referencia de los celtas de Hallstaat. Nordic_BA es un modelo efectivo para la Edad del Bronce. En mi caso se verifica que si tomo como referencia Swe_IA. Aparecen mis marcadores escandinavos en detrimento de lo céltico. Esto indica que, probablemente, Swe_IA constituya un modelo de referencia más puro y fiable para definir lo visigótico. Al sustituirlo en el modelo de referencia consigo una combinación de poblaciones a una distancia inferior regularizando el modelo con una penalización estándar para acercar el valor de mi primera coordenada a la del modelo de referencia que me da este resultado. Cierto que aunque el fit es ligeramente peor (98.855 pct con Swe_IA frente al 99.975 pct con Nordic_BA en la PC1) consigo que aparezcan mis marcadores escandinavos:
Hola Martín!

SWE_IA no es una mustra buena para estimar ancestralidad germánica, he notado que retorna valores poco fiables. Por ejemplo yo sé que soy muy poco germánico (https://i.postimg.cc/Pqbv3nQ6/Ruderico-celt-germ.png), pero con SWE_IA tengo siempre valores muy altos y totalmente irrealistas, por ejemplo

[1] "distance%=1.8378"

Ruderico

Celtiberian,67
SWE_IA,14.4
North_African,10.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,6.2
Armenia_LBA,1.2
Levant_Roman,1

He perguntado a Davidski sobre esta y otras mustras germánicas, él me dijo

I'm not sure what SWE_IA represents exactly. This might be an early Germanic, but I suspect it's too old to be a good reference for Germanic genetic drift and overall Germanic ancestry. In one of my tests this sample is coming out rather North Atlantic.

You need to wait for all those samples from the Viking paper to see what happens with them.

Saludos

Magovalle
08-26-2019, 11:05 AM
Hola Martín!

SWE_IA no es una mustra buena para estimar ancestralidad germánica, he notado que retorna valores poco fiables. Por ejemplo yo sé que soy muy poco germánico (https://i.postimg.cc/Pqbv3nQ6/Ruderico-celt-germ.png), pero con SWE_IA tengo siempre valores muy altos y totalmente irrealistas, por ejemplo

[1] "distance%=1.8378"

Ruderico

Celtiberian,67
SWE_IA,14.4
North_African,10.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,6.2
Armenia_LBA,1.2
Levant_Roman,1

He perguntado a Davidski sobre esta y otras mustras germánicas, él me dijo


Saludos

Hola, de nuevo amigo. Lo descarto de mi modelo personalizado. Esperemos a ver si entre las muestras vikingas encontramos alguna que encaje mejor para nuestro modelo ibérico comun. Cuidate,

Un abrazo

Shadogowah
08-27-2019, 08:11 AM
Hola,

Hasta donde yo se, la migración de los godos por Europa fue bastante larga y con muchas paradas de larga duración hasta finalmente asentarse en la península ibérica.

Si bien sus orígenes se trazan hasta las costas del Báltico y los antepasados de estas gentes tendrían un perfil escandinavo, me parece a mí que los descendientes que finalmente se establecieron en la península ibérica ya tenían que estar muy mezcladitos y su perfil más proximo a los de las gentes del este de europa.

32747

rober_tce
08-27-2019, 10:36 AM
De hecho, he leído en algunas webs que el componente "báltico" en diversas calculadoras de Eurogenes referidos a los ibéricos, podría ser que los propios godos lo hubiesen traído, lo cual no me extrañaría en absoluto... o quizás venga de las migraciones de la cultura yamnaya hacia Europa occidental.

Shadogowah
08-27-2019, 10:37 AM
De hecho, he leído en algunas webs que el componente "báltico" en diversas calculadoras de Eurogenes referidos a los ibéricos, podría ser que los propios godos lo hubiesen traído, lo cual no me extrañaría en absoluto...

Nope. Ese componente es ancestral y mucho más antiguo.


o quizás venga de las migraciones de la cultura yamnaya hacia Europa occidental.

Va a ser esto mas bien.

sweuro
08-27-2019, 11:11 AM
Hola,

Hasta donde yo se, la migración de los godos por Europa fue bastante larga y con muchas paradas de larga duración hasta finalmente asentarse en la península ibérica.

Si bien sus orígenes se trazan en las costas del Báltico y los antepasados de estas gentes tendrían un perfil escandinavo, me parece a mí que los descendientes que finalmente se establecieron en la península ibérica ya tenían que estar muy mezcladitos y su perfil más proximo a los de las gentes del este de europa.

32747
de los 5 visigodos de Girona que tenemos, 3 tienen unperfil germánico, uno parecec nativo ibérico y otro un perfil balcánicoa

Ruderico
08-27-2019, 11:50 AM
de los 5 visigodos de Girona que tenemos, 3 tienen unperfil germánico, uno parecec nativo ibérico y otro un perfil balcánicoa

Comparándolos con los germánicos de Szolad o Collegno, yo diria que todos ellos eran mezclados

Magovalle
08-29-2019, 11:52 PM
Comparándolos con los germánicos de Szolad o Collegno, yo diria que todos ellos eran mezclados

Hola, amigo:

Sólo a título de comentario. Ya en el mes de Marzo, Lucasz los incorporó a sus modelos. Tomó como referencia básica el I12032 con un índice genotípico de 0.17. Y los modelos I12162 e I12163 como referencias secundarias. El primero tiene como proxys: Alemania Occidental, Francia y Sur de Holanda. En el modo mixto es prácticamente germánico en un 83 pct. Aunque las tres referencias pueden utilizarse para obtener un modelo genérico de visigodo. Yo utilizaría única y exclusivamente como proxy de visigodo el de referencia I12032 aunque se trate de un modelo de referencia individual para incorporarlo de manera temporal a cualquiera de nuestros modelos basados en medias de población. Tan sólo es una sugerencia. En esto tú eres el maestro. Un abrazo

E_M81_I3A
10-17-2019, 06:22 PM
El componente north-african parece demasiado elevado, incluso los Franceses obtienen 3.6% cuando deberian tener cerca de 0%

This is in fact because, whenever you mix components from different continents into a G25 model, you should use scaled data, as mentionned by Generalissimo, the author of the tool ("when modeling admixture from outside of Europe always check the scaled data!"), otherwise you can get this kind of issue (like here North African ancestry showing up wrongly for French/North Italians)

And indeed, when using same model using same populations but with scaled data we can see that North African (as well as Levant_Canaanite_MBA) is not showing up anymore for French/North Italians:

[1] "distance%=1.9592"

French

CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany,35.6
Nordic_BA,31.4
Iberia_North_BA,18
ARM_MBA,7.6
GRC_Mycenaean,7.4


[1] "distance%=1.6883"

Italian_Bergamo

GRC_Mycenaean,42.8
CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany,39.8
Nordic_BA,13.4
Iberia_North_BA,3
ARM_MBA,1


[1] "distance%=4.0043"

Iberia_Southeast_c.5-8CE:I3575

Canary_Islands_Guanche,35.6
CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany,22.4
Iberia_North_BA,19.8
ARM_MBA,10.4
GRC_Mycenaean,6.4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,5.4


[1] "distance%=3.0546"

Iberia_Southeast_c.10-16CE:I8146

Canary_Islands_Guanche,38
Iberia_North_BA,22.4
GRC_Mycenaean,21.6
Nordic_BA,7.8
CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany,4.2
Yoruba,3.2
ARM_MBA,2.8

Ruderico
10-17-2019, 07:10 PM
Can you justify technically what you just said? Actually don't, I don't want this thread to become another annoying and pointless discussion about scaling.

By the way, no, the author of nMonte isn't David. It's Huijbregts, and he never scales data. It was also Huijbregts who came up with this form of scaling, but he says it's so bad it should not be used. David tells people to use whatever makes sense to them.

Now if you want to make your models, please go ahead, making a discussion on scaling discussion, no.

E_M81_I3A
10-17-2019, 07:19 PM
I quoted David who can better than anyone else justify this technically so better you ask him directly…. But just looking at the results posted should be enough I guess.

Ruderico
10-17-2019, 07:36 PM
It really isn't.
Please share models or don't bother with this discussion, because it will be deleted. This isn't a thread about scaling.

E_M81_I3A
10-17-2019, 07:38 PM
and here is the post from David :

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?14329-Global-25-avec-Past3&p=484281#post484281

E_M81_I3A
10-17-2019, 08:29 PM
It really isn't.
Please share models or don't bother with this discussion, because it will be deleted. This isn't a thread about scaling.

Ok, understood... I just sent you a PM with an interesting sample.

JJJ
11-18-2019, 08:19 PM
,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Juan_scaled,0.097888,0.138112,0.031678,0.000323,0. 047086,0.001116,-0.003525,0.001615,0.02577,0.040456,-0.005196,0.007943,-0.017096,-0.016515,-0.002307,-0.015115,-0.012517,0.000253,-0.003771,-0.006628,0.000873,-0.005441,0.00037,0.005061,-0.003592

,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Juan,0.0086,0.0136,0.0084,0.0001,0.0153,0.0004,-0.0015,0.0007,0.0126,0.0222,-0.0032,0.0053,-0.0115,-0.012,-0.0017,-0.0114,-0.0096,0.0002,-0.003,-0.0053,0.0007,-0.0044,0.0003,0.0042,-0.003

En vez de decir hola enseño mis coordenadas G25.

-Hola, buenos días.
-
,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Juan_scaled,0.097888,0.138112,0.031678,0.000323,0. 047086,0.001116,-0.003525,0.001615,0.02577,0.040456,-0.005196,0.007943,-0.017096,-0.016515,-0.002307,-0.015115,-0.012517,0.000253,-0.003771,-0.006628,0.000873,-0.005441,0.00037,0.005061,-0.003592

,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Juan,0.0086,0.0136,0.0084,0.0001,0.0153,0.0004,-0.0015,0.0007,0.0126,0.0222,-0.0032,0.0053,-0.0115,-0.012,-0.0017,-0.0114,-0.0096,0.0002,-0.003,-0.0053,0.0007,-0.0044,0.0003,0.0042,-0.003´
-¿?¿?

Que quiero que lo pases por tu modelo si es posible y enjoy.

Empecinado
11-19-2019, 10:23 AM
Hola, aquí mis resultados. Soy mitad gallego (de la zona este) y mitad alicantino, sin descartar algo de antepasados genoveses (Liguria). Curiosamente aun siendo la mitad de mi familia de la otra punta de España la mayor proximidad la tengo a Murcia, que no queda lejos de donde viene mi familia paterna, y en los modelos de mezcla me sale siempre más afinidad con Castilla y León y poca con Galicia, lo cual puede indicar que la zona de montaña al este (cerca del Bierzo leonés) tenga una genética más leonesa que gallega.


Global25

,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Jordi_scaled,0.114961,0.153345,0.040729,-0.00646,0.045239,-0.006693,-0.0047,0.008077,0.025975,0.035172,0.001624,0.00854 2,-0.015758,0.000963,0.011808,-0.009149,-0.011083,-0.00152,0.008799,-0.00988,0.00025,0.001237,0.001356,-0.005181,0.003233

,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Jordi,0.0101,0.0151,0.0108,-0.002,0.0147,-0.0024,-0.002,0.0035,0.0127,0.0193,0.001,0.0057,-0.0106,0.0007,0.0087,-0.0069,-0.0085,-0.0012,0.007,-0.0079,0.0002,0.001,0.0011,-0.0043,0.0027



Distance: 4.5106% / 0.04510634
Aggregated
57.8 Anatolia_Barcin_N
26.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
12.0 WHG
2.2 MAR_Iberomaurusian
1.2 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N


Eurogenes K13

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 41.26
2 West_Med 26
3 East_Med 16.44
4 Baltic 10.2
5 Red_Sea 3.87
6 Northeast_African 1.35
7 Sub-Saharan 0.61
8 Oceanian 0.27

Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Murcia 3.22
2 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 3.75
3 Spanish_Valencia 3.93
4 Portuguese 4.2
5 Spanish_Extremadura 4.75
6 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 4.95
7 Spanish_Cataluna 4.98
8 Spanish_Galicia 5.43
9 Spanish_Andalucia 5.77
10 Spanish_Aragon 6.24
11 Spanish_Cantabria 6.62
12 Southwest_French 8.84
13 North_Italian 10.85
14 French 11.29
15 Tuscan 16.17
16 South_Dutch 17.42
17 West_German 17.72
18 French_Basque 18.27
19 Southeast_English 21.01
20 Southwest_English 21.45





Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 79.1% Spanish_Murcia + 20.9% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.16
2 78.3% Spanish_Murcia + 21.7% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.17
3 99.1% Spanish_Murcia + 0.9% Yemenite_Jewish @ 3.17
4 99.5% Spanish_Murcia + 0.5% Saudi @ 3.21
5 92.3% Spanish_Murcia + 7.7% Portuguese @ 3.21

Eurogenes K15

Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 33.05
2 North_Sea 22.28
3 West_Med 20.12
4 East_Med 13.97
5 Red_Sea 3.99
6 Baltic 3.35
7 Northeast_African 1.64
8 Eastern_Euro 1.24

Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Murcia 5.11
2 Spanish_Extremadura 6.5
3 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 6.64
4 Spanish_Valencia 6.88
5 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 7
6 Spanish_Cataluna 7.06
7 Spanish_Aragon 7.23
8 Portuguese 7.59
9 Spanish_Andalucia 8.17
10 Spanish_Cantabria 8.53
11 Spanish_Galicia 9.41
12 Southwest_French 10.32
13 North_Italian 11.98
14 French 13.16
15 French_Basque 16.06
16 Tuscan 16.95
17 South_Dutch 17.43
18 Southwest_English 19.76
19 West_German 19.99
20 Southeast_English 20.64


Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 94% Spanish_Murcia + 6% French_Basque @ 5.02
2 88% Spanish_Murcia + 12% Spanish_Aragon @ 5.06
3 98.7% Spanish_Murcia + 1.3% Orcadian @ 5.1
4 98.7% Spanish_Murcia + 1.3% West_Scottish @ 5.1
5 99% Spanish_Murcia + 1% Irish @ 5.11

Empecinado
12-02-2019, 09:29 AM
La muestra de Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10892 y similares, que segun veo son las que nos salen mas proximas a muchos ibericos, de donde es exactamente? En que estudio aparecio?

JJJ
12-02-2019, 10:01 AM
Debe ser una muestra catalana medieval muy próxima a los ibéricos modernos, igual que Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10895 (la más similar a mí). Al menos eso me explicaron, de donde salió el estudio ni idea.

Ruderico
12-02-2019, 10:33 AM
Fue de Olalde 2019

Endovelicus
12-02-2019, 10:42 AM
La muestra de Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10892 y similares, que segun veo son las que nos salen mas proximas a muchos ibericos, de donde es exactamente? En que estudio aparecio?

Entre las muestras antiguas esta es la más cercana a mí.

Mapa hecho por Ph2ter

https://i.imgur.com/uumiGcI.png

JJJ
12-02-2019, 10:57 AM
El "895":

https://i.imgur.com/JMbPZcY.png

Una mezcla de los dos, es decir el mío:

https://i.imgur.com/GDYIup4.png

¿Cuántas veces habré mostrado mi mapa? :biggrin1:

Ruderico
12-02-2019, 12:19 PM
Vahaduo ahora ya tiene una penalización como nMonte3, pero los resultados de los modelos no son exactamente iguales, me parecen menos fiables, lo que es normal porque es más rápido y probablemente hace menos ciclos..entonces he simplificado los modelos. Quité la referencia Levantina y me quedé solo con la Romana Imperial como representativa del centro/leste mediterránico. Por otro lado incluí la muestra Gaélica porque ayuda a diferenciar entre las diferentes regiones/muestras, y en nMonte3 las fits mejoran muchísimo.

El objectivo aquí es mostrar PCA plots con base en estos modelos, pero solo con medias regionales (y nosotros), y tentar comprender porque parece que quien es cerca de la muestra Gallega está más lejos de la Asturiana, como dice JJJ

Que existem dois tipos de ibéricos: os que odeiam as Astúrias e os que os amam. Com a Galiza, acontece o mesmo com curiosidade.

https://i.postimg.cc/fZBZLgCx/pc1pc2.png

https://i.postimg.cc/VkMqh0fn/pc1pc3.png

https://i.postimg.cc/nL0dh96g/pc2pc3.png

https://i.postimg.cc/Dzx8p7X1/pc2pc4.png

JJJ
12-02-2019, 01:06 PM
El objectivo aquí es mostrar PCA plots con base en estos modelos, pero solo con medias regionales (y nosotros), y tentar comprender porque parece que quien es cerca de la muestra Gallega está más lejos de la Asturiana, como dice JJJ


Trebaruna es el planeta Ceres en estos gráficos: siempre orbita a lo lejos.

Ruderico
12-02-2019, 01:21 PM
Trebaruna es el planeta Ceres en estos gráficos: siempre orbita a lo lejos.

Si, creo que ella es cerca de Galicia pero con menos Germanico y Romano, pero más Iberia_IA

Empecinado
12-02-2019, 02:04 PM
Perdon por el retraso pero porque la distancia de cada uno de nosotros a una u otra muestra antigua varia segun el mapa?

Ruderico
12-02-2019, 02:15 PM
Porque cada gráfico es solo una representación en 2D (de algo en 5D en este caso), cada un muestra diferentes componentes principales y cada componente tiene eigenvalues (valores proprios) distintos. Si yo cambiar las referencias del modelo, o las muestras, el gráfico y las distancias cambiarán de nuevo. Esto es solo un ejemplo de como cada media regional se puerta con estas referencias. Para mi lo más interesante es como la muestra Gallega le gusta el Germanic_IA, o los Vascos les gustan Iberia_IA

Empecinado
12-02-2019, 02:35 PM
Galicia creo que es junto con el norte de Portugal y el norte de Cataluna la zona con mas densidad de toponimos de origen germanico, quizas el poblamiento suevo a pesar de ser mas pequeno que el visigodo tuvo mas influencia que este en la genetica local. Segun mis observaciones personales, las zonas con toponimos germanicos (nombres derivadas de nombres de reyes suevos) suelen ser aldeas de unas pocas casas, en el interior mas que en la costa y separadas unas de otras.

Ruderico
12-02-2019, 02:46 PM
Galicia creo que es junto con el norte de Portugal y el norte de Cataluna la zona con mas densidad de toponimos de origen germanico, quizas el poblamiento suevo a pesar de ser mas pequeno que el visigodo tuvo mas influencia que este en la genetica local. Segun mis observaciones personales, las zonas con toponimos germanicos (nombres derivadas de nombres de reyes suevos) suelen ser aldeas de unas pocas casas, en el interior mas que en la costa y separadas unas de otras.

Tal vez, o entonces la referencia que yo he usado no es la mejor, porque G25 tiene mucha dificultad en captar el "germánico" porque hay muchísimo ADN en común allí. Es también posible que sea solo algo típico del norte/noroeste de Europa en vez de germánico. Trebaruna es del Centro de Portugal y es semejante a Galicia, rxavierlima es del Norte pero no tiene mucho germánico.

Pero si yo usar Nordic_BA, o unas muestras germánicas del periodo pos-Romano, incluso Visigodos, Galicia aún así tiene más que las otras referencias regionales (si no estoy en error), y Trebaruna continua muchísimo más cerca que yo, por ejemplo.

Magovalle
12-02-2019, 06:59 PM
Vahaduo ahora ya tiene una penalización como nMonte3, pero los resultados de los modelos no son exactamente iguales, me parecen menos fiables, lo que es normal porque es más rápido y probablemente hace menos ciclos..entonces he simplificado los modelos. Quité la referencia Levantina y me quedé solo con la Romana Imperial como representativa del centro/leste mediterránico. Por otro lado incluí la muestra Gaélica porque ayuda a diferenciar entre las diferentes regiones/muestras, y en nMonte3 las fits mejoran muchísimo.

El objectivo aquí es mostrar PCA plots con base en estos modelos, pero solo con medias regionales (y nosotros), y tentar comprender porque parece que quien es cerca de la muestra Gallega está más lejos de la Asturiana, como dice JJJ


https://i.postimg.cc/fZBZLgCx/pc1pc2.png

https://i.postimg.cc/VkMqh0fn/pc1pc3.png

https://i.postimg.cc/nL0dh96g/pc2pc3.png

https://i.postimg.cc/Dzx8p7X1/pc2pc4.png

Hola, Ruderico:

En tu PCA basado en medias de población. ¿Dónde estaría yo? Entiendo que más cerca de las referencias de Castilla-León y Portugal. ¿Podrías verificarlo? Gcs de antemano, amigo

Un abrazo

Magovalle
12-04-2019, 12:24 AM
Debe ser una muestra catalana medieval muy próxima a los ibéricos modernos, igual que Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10895 (la más similar a mí). Al menos eso me explicaron, de donde salió el estudio ni idea.

Del I10895, que figura en el estudio de Olalde, sabemos que su cromosoma Y ha dado positivo para el DF98>S1911. Se trata del haplogrupo que define a la House of Wettin (El famoso Cluster de los Reyes). Esta muestra es medio vikinga y probablemente carolingia. También es provisionalmente el modelo individual de referencia más próximo a mi genoma dentro de la base de datos de Davidski (G25 PCA). Hay muchos ibéricos, como muy bien mencionas, que lo tienen también como modelo más próximo

Un saludo

JJJ
12-04-2019, 09:43 AM
Esta muestra es medio vikinga y probablemente carolingia.


https://i.postimg.cc/Vkd9HBBz/wickie3-370x215.jpg

Gracias por la información, lo que se aprende :biggrin1:

Ruderico
12-04-2019, 11:56 AM
Del I10895, que figura en el estudio de Olalde, sabemos que su cromosoma Y ha dado positivo para el DF98>S1911. Se trata del haplogrupo que define a la House of Wettin (El famoso Cluster de los Reyes). Esta muestra es medio vikinga y probablemente carolingia. También es provisionalmente el modelo individual de referencia más próximo a mi genoma dentro de la base de datos de Davidski (G25 PCA). Hay muchos ibéricos, como muy bien mencionas, que lo tienen también como modelo más próximo

Un saludo

I10895 puede tener origen patrilinear germánica, pero es tan Ibérico como tu o yo


[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
Spanish_Andalucia Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.09187112 0.10619381
Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon Spanish_Lleida
0.10715486 0.11215080
Spanish_Menorca Spanish_Eivissa
0.11372112 0.11507790
Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.11897243 0.11915746
Spanish_Peri-Barcelona Portuguese
0.11956107 0.12031471
Spanish_Valencia Spanish_Aragon
0.12112097 0.12189519
Spanish_Pirineu Spanish_Murcia
0.12773811 0.12791697
Spanish_Baleares Spanish_Extremadura
0.12970241 0.13132068
Spanish_Catalunya_Central Spanish_Girona
0.13410691 0.13477066
Spanish_Mallorca Spanish_Barcelones
0.13930197 0.13949724
Spanish_Penedes Spanish_Cataluna
0.14009164 0.14186691
Spanish_Cantabria Spanish_Alacant
0.14214651 0.15097656
Spanish_Castello French_Auvergne
0.15958034 0.16498424
French_Occitanie Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.17115537 0.17501489
Italian_Lombardy French_Prov_Marseille
0.17621237 0.17794547
French_South Italian_Bergamo
0.17798179 0.18337808
French_Provence French_Corsica
0.18511953 0.18708546
Italian_Veneto Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.19224115 0.19517748
Italian_Piedmont Spanish_Asturias
0.19600446 0.19739301
Spanish_Galicia Spanish_Navarra
0.20326055 0.20595024
Italian_Liguria Italian_Tuscany
0.20921759 0.21596320
Spanish_Pais_Vasco Basque_French
0.22345568 0.22379185
French_Nord Italian_Marche
0.23650612 0.23666550
Italian_Northeast Basque_Spanish
0.23866653 0.23942892
French_Alsace Italian_Umbria
0.24110533 0.24263300
Spanish_La_Rioja French_Paris
0.24405122 0.24579512
Italian_Lazio French_Corsica_o
0.24674848 0.26526213
Spanish_Soria Italian_Abruzzo
0.27085005 0.27294800
French_Rennes_Bretagne Italian_Molise
0.28145882 0.28421823
Italian_South Italian_Campania
0.30232474 0.30235722
Italian_Apulia French_Brittany
0.30424234 0.30530868
Italian_Basilica Italian_Naples
0.30632964 0.31233463
Italian_Calabria Italian_Jew
0.32467445 0.34110240



I10892

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon Spanish_Eivissa
0.1348472 0.1414837
Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.1541318 0.1592779
Spanish_Menorca Spanish_Andalucia
0.1594472 0.1607793
Italian_Lombardy Spanish_Barcelones
0.1655723 0.1676845
Spanish_Aragon Spanish_Valencia
0.1699277 0.1738339
Spanish_Baleares Portuguese
0.1794872 0.1809557
Spanish_Lleida Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.1848832 0.1849791
Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona Spanish_Girona
0.1852465 0.1888331
Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige Spanish_Mallorca
0.1911693 0.1933501
Spanish_Extremadura Italian_Bergamo
0.1970906 0.1972321
Spanish_Alacant Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.1974048 0.1975045
Italian_Liguria Spanish_Pirineu
0.1983961 0.2005993
French_Auvergne Spanish_Murcia
0.2017091 0.2022332
Spanish_Penedes Spanish_Cantabria
0.2052688 0.2054312
Spanish_Cataluna Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.2062778 0.2064806
Italian_Piedmont French_Occitanie
0.2085861 0.2099872
Italian_Veneto French_Prov_Marseille
0.2164767 0.2168059
Spanish_Asturias French_Corsica
0.2215920 0.2226253
French_Provence French_South
0.2262800 0.2298750
Spanish_Castello Italian_Tuscany
0.2310950 0.2325875
Spanish_Pais_Vasco Italian_Marche
0.2374870 0.2382948
Spanish_Navarra Basque_French
0.2448009 0.2484101
French_Nord French_Alsace
0.2557282 0.2561114
Italian_Lazio Italian_Northeast
0.2571591 0.2580768
Italian_Umbria Spanish_Galicia
0.2640839 0.2651914
French_Paris Italian_Abruzzo
0.2657443 0.2763427
Basque_Spanish Italian_Molise
0.2871832 0.2961925
Italian_Apulia Italian_South
0.2996323 0.3008160
Italian_Naples French_Rennes_Bretagne
0.3035279 0.3060342
Italian_Campania Italian_Basilica
0.3070999 0.3138407
Spanish_La_Rioja French_Brittany
0.3184054 0.3244910
French_Corsica_o Spanish_Soria
0.3282941 0.3327187
Italian_Calabria Italian_Jew
0.3338840 0.3426734


Para muestras más recientes/modernas los haplogrupos son virtualmente inútiles y no dicen nada.

Un saludo, amigo

JJJ
12-04-2019, 02:49 PM
I10895 puede tener origen patrilinear germánica, pero es tan Ibérico como tu o yo

https://i.postimg.cc/hPxQrYbn/vickingo.jpg

No pude resistirlo.

Magovalle
12-04-2019, 08:12 PM
I10895 puede tener origen patrilinear germánica, pero es tan Ibérico como tu o yo


[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
Spanish_Andalucia Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.09187112 0.10619381
Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon Spanish_Lleida
0.10715486 0.11215080
Spanish_Menorca Spanish_Eivissa
0.11372112 0.11507790
Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.11897243 0.11915746
Spanish_Peri-Barcelona Portuguese
0.11956107 0.12031471
Spanish_Valencia Spanish_Aragon
0.12112097 0.12189519
Spanish_Pirineu Spanish_Murcia
0.12773811 0.12791697
Spanish_Baleares Spanish_Extremadura
0.12970241 0.13132068
Spanish_Catalunya_Central Spanish_Girona
0.13410691 0.13477066
Spanish_Mallorca Spanish_Barcelones
0.13930197 0.13949724
Spanish_Penedes Spanish_Cataluna
0.14009164 0.14186691
Spanish_Cantabria Spanish_Alacant
0.14214651 0.15097656
Spanish_Castello French_Auvergne
0.15958034 0.16498424
French_Occitanie Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.17115537 0.17501489
Italian_Lombardy French_Prov_Marseille
0.17621237 0.17794547
French_South Italian_Bergamo
0.17798179 0.18337808
French_Provence French_Corsica
0.18511953 0.18708546
Italian_Veneto Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.19224115 0.19517748
Italian_Piedmont Spanish_Asturias
0.19600446 0.19739301
Spanish_Galicia Spanish_Navarra
0.20326055 0.20595024
Italian_Liguria Italian_Tuscany
0.20921759 0.21596320
Spanish_Pais_Vasco Basque_French
0.22345568 0.22379185
French_Nord Italian_Marche
0.23650612 0.23666550
Italian_Northeast Basque_Spanish
0.23866653 0.23942892
French_Alsace Italian_Umbria
0.24110533 0.24263300
Spanish_La_Rioja French_Paris
0.24405122 0.24579512
Italian_Lazio French_Corsica_o
0.24674848 0.26526213
Spanish_Soria Italian_Abruzzo
0.27085005 0.27294800
French_Rennes_Bretagne Italian_Molise
0.28145882 0.28421823
Italian_South Italian_Campania
0.30232474 0.30235722
Italian_Apulia French_Brittany
0.30424234 0.30530868
Italian_Basilica Italian_Naples
0.30632964 0.31233463
Italian_Calabria Italian_Jew
0.32467445 0.34110240



I10892

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon Spanish_Eivissa
0.1348472 0.1414837
Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.1541318 0.1592779
Spanish_Menorca Spanish_Andalucia
0.1594472 0.1607793
Italian_Lombardy Spanish_Barcelones
0.1655723 0.1676845
Spanish_Aragon Spanish_Valencia
0.1699277 0.1738339
Spanish_Baleares Portuguese
0.1794872 0.1809557
Spanish_Lleida Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.1848832 0.1849791
Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona Spanish_Girona
0.1852465 0.1888331
Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige Spanish_Mallorca
0.1911693 0.1933501
Spanish_Extremadura Italian_Bergamo
0.1970906 0.1972321
Spanish_Alacant Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.1974048 0.1975045
Italian_Liguria Spanish_Pirineu
0.1983961 0.2005993
French_Auvergne Spanish_Murcia
0.2017091 0.2022332
Spanish_Penedes Spanish_Cantabria
0.2052688 0.2054312
Spanish_Cataluna Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.2062778 0.2064806
Italian_Piedmont French_Occitanie
0.2085861 0.2099872
Italian_Veneto French_Prov_Marseille
0.2164767 0.2168059
Spanish_Asturias French_Corsica
0.2215920 0.2226253
French_Provence French_South
0.2262800 0.2298750
Spanish_Castello Italian_Tuscany
0.2310950 0.2325875
Spanish_Pais_Vasco Italian_Marche
0.2374870 0.2382948
Spanish_Navarra Basque_French
0.2448009 0.2484101
French_Nord French_Alsace
0.2557282 0.2561114
Italian_Lazio Italian_Northeast
0.2571591 0.2580768
Italian_Umbria Spanish_Galicia
0.2640839 0.2651914
French_Paris Italian_Abruzzo
0.2657443 0.2763427
Basque_Spanish Italian_Molise
0.2871832 0.2961925
Italian_Apulia Italian_South
0.2996323 0.3008160
Italian_Naples French_Rennes_Bretagne
0.3035279 0.3060342
Italian_Campania Italian_Basilica
0.3070999 0.3138407
Spanish_La_Rioja French_Brittany
0.3184054 0.3244910
French_Corsica_o Spanish_Soria
0.3282941 0.3327187
Italian_Calabria Italian_Jew
0.3338840 0.3426734


Para muestras más recientes/modernas los haplogrupos son virtualmente inútiles y no dicen nada.

Un saludo, amigo

Hola, Ruderico. Por supuesto me refería al cromosoma paterno. Su autosomal es marca de la casa. Muy asturleonés. Un abrazo, amigo

Empecinado
12-06-2019, 08:59 AM
Va a salir pronto algun estudio sobre Iberia con nuevas muestras historicas, al estilo del de Olalde?

Ruderico
12-06-2019, 09:17 AM
Que yo sepa, no. Probablemente vamos a tener de esperar años por otro

Amhas
12-11-2019, 05:25 PM
Hola todos, aquí un nuevo estudio que incluye nuevas muestras españolas de Granada y Huelva, el sur de Portugal y también 3 grupos Bereberes de Marruecos.
the file are genotyped, se pueden incluir en G25.

https://academic.oup.com/mbe/advance-article/doi/10.1093/molbev/msz288/5670533

Ruderico
12-11-2019, 05:51 PM
Ya he mandado PM a Davidski, lo más interesante para mi son las muestras del Sur de Portugal que aún no tenemos

Shadogowah
12-11-2019, 05:57 PM
Hola todos, aquí un nuevo estudio que incluye nuevas muestras españolas de Granada y Huelva, el sur de Portugal y también 3 grupos Bereberes de Marruecos.
the file are genotyped, se pueden incluir en G25.

https://academic.oup.com/mbe/advance-article/doi/10.1093/molbev/msz288/5670533

Thanks!!!

Endovelicus
12-11-2019, 06:10 PM
Hola todos, aquí un nuevo estudio que incluye nuevas muestras españolas de Granada y Huelva, el sur de Portugal y también 3 grupos Bereberes de Marruecos.
the file are genotyped, se pueden incluir en G25.

https://academic.oup.com/mbe/advance-article/doi/10.1093/molbev/msz288/5670533

Estoy particularmente interesado en las muestras del sur de Portugal.

Ruderico
12-11-2019, 06:22 PM
Estoy particularmente interesado en las muestras del sur de Portugal.

Assim a olhometro parecem ser idênticas às Portuguesas actuais do G25.
Os Galegos são os novos do G25, repara nos resultados (se não estou em erro usaram amostras do Norte de Marrocos):
https://i.postimg.cc/brts6w9g/novoestudo.png


Com o modelo da Idade do Ferro, usando amostras Guanches (idênticos aos Marroquinos do Norte):
[1] "distance%=0.7629"

Spanish_Galicia

Iberia_IA,66.4
Guanche,10
Germanic_IA,9.8
ITA_Rome_Imperial,8
Levant_Roman,5.8


[1] "distance%=0.9177"

Portuguese

Iberia_IA,63.8
Guanche,11.2
Germanic_IA,11
ITA_Rome_Imperial,8.8
Levant_Roman,5.2



Não parece haver diferença entre estes Portugueses do Sul e os disponíveis no G25. As referências deles para o Near East já não são iguais às minhas, mas o resultado virtualmente igual do Norte de África parece ser um sinal positivo para o modelo (e para o G25 no geral)

E_M81_I3A
12-11-2019, 06:48 PM
Ya he mandado PM a Davidski, lo más interesante para mi son las muestras del Sur de Portugal que aún no tenemos

In the study they mention another study about Canarians "Genomic Analyses of Human European Diversity at the Southwestern Edge: Isolation, African Influence and Disease Associations in the Canary Islands" from 2018:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6278859

with data from "416 individuals (34 from El Hierro, 35 from La Palma, 78 from La Gomera, 64 from Tenerife, 117 from Gran Canaria, 32 from Fuerteventura, and 56 from Lanzarote)" !

I asked David also if he could include them into G25

E_M81_I3A
12-12-2019, 08:18 AM
David have put the 416 Canarians here:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=17uYt-v4tBNj6maoA03RqDPkOOFx3LCwt

Ruderico
12-12-2019, 09:50 AM
Hola todos, aquí un nuevo estudio que incluye nuevas muestras españolas de Granada y Huelva, el sur de Portugal y también 3 grupos Bereberes de Marruecos.
the file are genotyped, se pueden incluir en G25.

https://academic.oup.com/mbe/advance-article/doi/10.1093/molbev/msz288/5670533

Is there a link to the genotype data anywhere? David is asking for it

Amhas
12-12-2019, 11:03 AM
Is there a link to the genotype data anywhere? David is asking for it

https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ega/studies/EGAS00001003901


The data can only be used by someone who got access, I don't know if David could do it.





David have put the 416 Canarians here:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=17uYt-v4tBNj6maoA03RqDPkOOFx3LCwt


Some individuals can reach 35% North African, but again part of it is Iberian derived.

Ruderico
12-12-2019, 11:07 AM
Thanks a lot, I'll send him the link. Lets hope he can access the files

Ruderico
12-12-2019, 01:19 PM
He dado una mirada a las muestras Canarias, son lo que ya se esperaba, con más de 400 muestras tienes un poco de todo. Voy a postar dos PCA plots con ellos, pero de futuro no las voy incluir, son demasiadas muestras.

https://i.postimg.cc/hv1sqvQB/canarias.png


https://i.postimg.cc/k4dWX9mX/canarias2.png

Amhas
12-12-2019, 02:31 PM
He dado una mirada a las muestras Canarias, son lo que ya se esperaba, con más de 400 muestras tienes un poco de todo. Voy a postar dos PCA plots con ellos, pero de futuro no las voy incluir, son demasiadas muestras.


A friend added few of them here.

https://i.imgur.com/Nu5USlW.png




EDIT: once oriental populations added the KEB leans toward them, while the Morisco didn't changed.

E_M81_I3A
12-12-2019, 06:58 PM
I just created a new thread for the Guillen-Guio et al. 2018 Canary islands study

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?19191-Canary-Islands-Guillen-Guio-et-al-2018-study

Empecinado
12-15-2019, 11:40 AM
Estoy empezando a usar R para G25 y tengo varias dudas, agradecería mucho que alguien fuese capaz de responderlas¨

-Cual es la diferencia entre el script n.Monte y el n.Monte3?

-Cual es la diferencia entre usar datos escalados o sin escalar?

-Cual es la diferencia entre usar R y Vahaduo?

-Qué es lo más recomendable en cuanto a mayor precisión de resultados para ibéricos?

Ruderico
12-18-2019, 01:00 PM
nMonte es un algoritmo más viejo que nMonte3, no vale a pena usarlo.

Datos no escalados son tus datos "reales" , los escalados son una version muy truncada. Nadie usa datos escalados an PCAs, solo aqui porqué David tambien los usa.

nMonte3 en R usa el metodo de Monte Carlo, Vahaduo no lo sé, pero és más rápido. Mi problema con Vahaduo es que los resultados parecen menos precisos, probablemente porqué és más rápido y hace menos ciclos.

Yo uso datos no escalados en nMonte3 con penalidad estandar, pero para ver muchos resultados uso Vahaduo solo por su velocidad

Empecinado
01-09-2020, 01:24 PM
Por curiosidad, cual es la prevalencia en Iberia de haplogrupos maternos y paternos de origen romano?

Ruderico
01-09-2020, 01:46 PM
No tengo ni idea. Existen muchos haplogrupos que pueden tener múltiplas orígenes, por ejemplo U152 puede ser Romano, Celtibero o Gaulés

sweuro
01-11-2020, 08:59 PM
Haciendo experimentos con PCA Vahaduo, se pueden identificar clusters (agrupaciones) ibéricos, como indico a continuación:

- Naranja: Oeste ibérico (Extremadura, Galicia, Portugal, Castilla-Leon y Andalucia). La región de Murcia es la excepción, a pesar de ser el Este ibérico, genéticamente es como si fuera del Oeste.

- Verde : Cataluña (Barcelones, Girona, Penedes, etc). Se encuentran a medio camino entre el cluster Oeste y el cluster Francés.

- Amarillo seria Norte de España, regiones circundantes con Vascongadas : Cantabria, Navarra, Rioja, SOria

- Rojo: Islas Baleares (Ibiza, Menorca, Mallorca, Baleares. YO Estoy incluido en este cluster).

- A medio camino entre los clusters Oeste y Cataluña, se encuentran Alicante, Valencia y La Mancha.

- A medias entre el cluter Norte y Cataluña , se encuentra Pirineos y Castellón. Tiene sentido que aparezca Pirineos, por geografía. Pero Castellón sorprende. Seguramente fue fuertemente repoblado por gentes proviniente del nordoeste de Cataluña, y/o de Aragón.

- Asturias queda aislado por arriba, debido a que tiene un componente norte-africano similar al cluster Oeste pero a la vez con un aporte Vascoide importante.


https://i.ibb.co/mRH54W4/IBERIA.png

Ruderico
01-11-2020, 09:29 PM
Bueno, un PCA plot depende siempre de las muestras presentes.

Huijbregts hay publicado un nuevo proyecto con los datos de G25, es un poco difícil para mi explicarlo, por lo tanto os dejo un link con su explicación.
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?19311-Clustering-the-sub-modern-European-G25-samples

Le pedi que plotara las referencias Ibéricas occidentales, tenéis aquí el resultado. Está más o menos de acuerdo con mi modelo simplificado (sin muestras levantinas)

[1] "distance%=0.7402"

Spanish_Extremadura

Iberia_IA,62.8
ITA_Rome_Imperial,18.4
North_African,10
Germanic_IA,8.8


[1] "distance%=0.7492"

Spanish_Andalucia

Iberia_IA,72.8
ITA_Rome_Imperial,15.4
North_African,7.4
Germanic_IA,4.4


[1] "distance%=0.6877"

Spanish_Galicia

Iberia_IA,65
ITA_Rome_Imperial,14.4
Germanic_IA,11.2
North_African,9.4


[1] "distance%=0.6457"

Spanish_Canarias

Iberia_IA,56.6
ITA_Rome_Imperial,19
North_African,16.8
Germanic_IA,7.6


[1] "distance%=0.8905"

Portuguese

Iberia_IA,63.2
ITA_Rome_Imperial,15
Germanic_IA,11.4
North_African,10.4


[1] "distance%=0.9863"

Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon

Iberia_IA,71.6
ITA_Rome_Imperial,13.6
North_African,9.2
Germanic_IA,5.6


[1] "distance%=1.8964"

Spanish_Asturias

Iberia_IA,77.8
North_African,9.6
ITA_Rome_Imperial,7.2
Germanic_IA,5.4

https://anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=35809&d=1578750470


Edit: Asturias no tiene aporte Vascoide, solo tiene un aporte mediterráneo pequeño

Empecinado
02-25-2020, 10:57 AM
@Ruderico acaba de salir un estudio con muchas muestras sardas, incluyendo punicos. Quizas es interesante para anhadir a los modelos para ibericos, al menos para Iberia oriental, teniendo en cuenta que hubo colonias punicas y fenicias.



Distance to: ITA_Sardinia_Punic (AVERAGE)
0.02763943 Spanish_Canarias
0.02806514 French_Corsica
0.02891215 Moroccan_Jew
0.02917463 Maltese
0.03010597 Sicilian_West
0.03015924 Italian_Jew
0.03042441 Tunisian_Jew
0.03054616 Libyan_Jew
0.03087424 Spanish_Extremadura
0.03096191 Spanish_Murcia
0.03128301 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.03143727 Italian_Lazio
0.03158399 Spanish_Andalucia
0.03192087 Sephardic_Jew
0.03207461 Portuguese
0.03238828 Spanish_Galicia
0.03254854 Italian_Campania
0.03257174 Italian_Umbria
0.03313248 Spanish_Pirineu
0.03316989 Sardinian
0.03324221 Italian_Abruzzo
0.03325124 Romaniote_Jew
0.03345543 Spanish_Valencia
0.03349975 Spanish_Menorca
0.03375505 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon

Distance to: ITA_Sardinia_Punic:VIL010
0.03506719 Moroccan_Jew
0.03605741 Tunisian_Jew
0.03629414 Italian_Jew
0.03635107 Libyan_Jew
0.03670845 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.03678673 Maltese
0.03820620 Romaniote_Jew
0.03909129 Spanish_Canarias
0.04008758 Sephardic_Jew
0.04044595 Italian_Campania
0.04077552 Italian_Lazio
0.04081964 Ashkenazi_Belarussia
0.04088868 Sicilian_West
0.04091769 French_Corsica
0.04134514 Italian_Umbria
0.04134860 Ashkenazi_Poland
0.04140372 Italian_Calabria
0.04178588 Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.04199977 Italian_Basilicata
0.04206741 Italian_Abruzzo
0.04226043 Ashkenazi_Russia
0.04250326 Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.04254743 Spanish_Extremadura
0.04303690 Italian_Apulia
0.04316732 Syrian_Jew

Distance to: ITA_Sardinia_Punic:VIL007
0.02983268 Italian_Jew
0.03045531 French_Corsica
0.03056253 Maltese
0.03083842 Sephardic_Jew
0.03113032 Tunisian_Jew
0.03117053 Sicilian_West
0.03212426 Spanish_Canarias
0.03218832 Italian_Lazio
0.03229532 Moroccan_Jew
0.03245203 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.03272714 Libyan_Jew
0.03299249 Italian_Campania
0.03349894 Italian_Abruzzo
0.03362205 Sicilian_East
0.03369234 Ashkenazi_Poland
0.03377551 Romaniote_Jew
0.03391198 Italian_Apulia
0.03397651 Italian_Calabria
0.03406861 Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.03409496 Italian_Lombardy
0.03443004 Spanish_Murcia
0.03444569 Spanish_Andalucia
0.03454158 Italian_Umbria
0.03460169 Italian_Bergamo
0.03482683 Spanish_Extremadura

Distance to: ITA_Sardinia_Punic:VIL006
0.03295623 Spanish_Canarias
0.03296343 Moroccan_Jew
0.03526917 Tunisian_Jew
0.03534974 Libyan_Jew
0.03628034 Algerian
0.03692105 Tunisian
0.03725172 Maltese
0.03744850 Spanish_Extremadura
0.03759666 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.03811532 Spanish_Murcia
0.03834596 Italian_Jew
0.03835530 Portuguese
0.03861860 Berber_Tunisia_Sen
0.03873293 Libyan
0.03874920 French_Corsica
0.03994611 Spanish_Galicia
0.04021054 Sephardic_Jew
0.04027107 Sicilian_West
0.04063412 Romaniote_Jew
0.04064524 Italian_Umbria
0.04067104 Moroccan_North
0.04072572 Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.04075595 Ashkenazi_Belarussia
0.04088756 Spanish_Andalucia
0.04091059 Ashkenazi_Russia




Distance to: ITA_Sardinia_Punic:VIL011
0.02735734 Moroccan_North
0.02812859 Algerian
0.02942047 Tunisian
0.03096087 Moroccan
0.03110799 Berber_Tunisia_Sen
0.03236263 Mozabite
0.03434976 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
0.03737509 Berber_MAR_ERR
0.03781109 Moroccan_South
0.03854980 Libyan
0.04142261 Moroccan_Jew
0.04188881 Saharawi
0.04499787 Libyan_Jew
0.04513231 Tunisian_Jew
0.04597079 Berber_MAR_TIZ
0.04654976 Berber_Algeria
0.04699472 Spanish_Canarias
0.05001748 Maltese
0.05129708 Italian_Jew
0.05160373 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.05214380 Egyptian
0.05236757 Sephardic_Jew
0.05324206 Spanish_Extremadura
0.05350454 Romaniote_Jew
0.05384655 Portuguese


Distance to: ITA_Sardinia_Punic:MSR002
0.02409178 Sicilian_West
0.02482523 Sephardic_Jew
0.02513212 Maltese
0.02543318 Sicilian_East
0.02557265 Italian_Jew
0.02627895 Tunisian_Jew
0.02639989 Libyan_Jew
0.02681038 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.02716901 Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.02719422 Romaniote_Jew
0.02726489 Ashkenazi_Poland
0.02736488 Italian_Campania
0.02751541 French_Corsica
0.02774064 Italian_Apulia
0.02782109 Italian_Lazio
0.02783449 Italian_Abruzzo
0.02788876 Italian_Calabria
0.02814938 Moroccan_Jew
0.02879162 Italian_Marche
0.02917157 Ashkenazi_Belarussia
0.02935674 Ashkenazi_Russia
0.02945612 Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.02963406 Italian_Basilicata
0.03001783 Italian_Lombardy
0.03042167 Italian_Umbria


Distance to: ITA_Sardinia_Punic:MSR003
0.02744606 Sicilian_West
0.02831566 French_Corsica
0.02893119 Italian_Lombardy
0.02964225 Italian_Lazio
0.03080236 Spanish_Andalucia
0.03083078 Italian_Bergamo
0.03097864 Spanish_Menorca
0.03128236 Sephardic_Jew
0.03129080 Sicilian_East
0.03156556 Italian_Marche
0.03156969 Italian_Piedmont
0.03180967 Italian_Abruzzo
0.03198700 Maltese
0.03199983 Italian_Apulia
0.03229496 Italian_Campania
0.03233779 Italian_Jew
0.03234898 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.03235489 Spanish_Eivissa
0.03259294 Italian_Molise
0.03265770 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
0.03267180 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.03269958 Italian_Umbria
0.03273671 Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.03274492 Spanish_Alacant
0.03276679 Spanish_Pirineu


Distance to: ITA_Sardinia_Punic:ORC002 (este es un outlier)
0.01906594 Sardinian
0.05278655 Spanish_La_Rioja
0.05324450 Basque_Spanish
0.05357643 French_Corsica
0.05385774 Basque_French
0.05400948 French_South
0.05420430 Spanish_Pirineu
0.05503238 Spanish_Menorca
0.05546438 Spanish_Cantabria
0.05594474 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.05596376 Spanish_Castello
0.05622340 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.05653376 Spanish_Andalucia
0.05655311 Spanish_Valencia
0.05658067 Spanish_Murcia
0.05668227 Spanish_Aragon
0.05668845 Spanish_Pais_Vasco
0.05727065 Spanish_Soria
0.05752381 Spanish_Alacant
0.05782448 Spanish_Baleares
0.05796280 Spanish_Navarra
0.05829313 Spanish_Barcelones
0.05832959 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.05836339 Spanish_Cataluna
0.05846533 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona

Ruderico
02-28-2020, 04:15 PM
Bueno puedo añadir unos hoy cuando llegar a casa, pero sí las muestras tienen aporte levantino o norte Africano el modelo en G25 no puede decirte con seguridad sí eso llegó con Cartagineses, Mauris o Sirios en el periodo Romano, o con Moros Islamicos.

También es importante saber sí las muestras son relevantes para nosotros en Ibéria, por ejemplo Morocco_LN resulta bien, pero no representa nada, es solo una referencia Europea (con mucho EEF) con um fuerte aporte norte Africano y un poco de levantino

El Prudente
03-13-2020, 10:38 PM
Ruderico usas Past para hacer los PCAs? si es así vaya paciencia que tienes

Ruderico
03-15-2020, 06:19 PM
Ruderico usas Past para hacer los PCAs? si es así vaya paciencia que tienes

Si, PAST4. Necesitó de un poquito de trabajo pero ya tengo las listas hechas, ahora es muy fácil, solo tengo de añadir las coordenadas de nuevos membros y ya está

mokordo
06-12-2020, 10:25 AM
Como siempre estamos con el recurrente debate de qué % de nuestro aporte NA es un aporte reciente o antiguo, aunque sé que no es determinante, se me ha ocurrido un método simplón para intentar discriminarlos.

Sería usar nuestras coordenadas , primero con estos dos samples:



Moroccan,-0.0853671,0.1302133,-0.0128221,-0.0708806,0.0211321,-0.03294,-0.0277833,0.0097687,0.0554032,0.0243993,0.0095087,-0.0090252,0.0269902,-0.0144658,0.0163016,-0.0061874,-0.0027669,-0.0170326,-0.0384216,0.0094351,-0.0098438,-0.0295119,0.0209111,-0.0011248,0.0059207
Basque,0.12997965,0.15121785,0.05672945,0.01091560 ,0.05699690,0.00131690,-0.00236310,0.00186655,0.03097855,0.04340165,-0.00690060,0.01097355,-0.02187710,-0.01639320,0.01558220,0.00089560,-0.00886335,0.00290045,-0.00126605,-0.00568710,0.00947355,0.00248615,-0.00776400,-0.00910345,0.00472095

Y luego con estos otros:


MAR_Taforalt,-0.189857,0.0814452,-0.0242866,-0.085595,0.027636,-0.0552202,-0.0705968,0.0184146,0.155397,0.003499,0.0209156,-0.0318316,0.0747168,-0.0513334,0.0711988,-0.0363032,0.0052676,-0.066106,-0.1424162,0.0389938,-0.0376836,-0.1255322,0.0730118,-0.0137606,0.0164534
Basque,0.12997965,0.15121785,0.05672945,0.01091560 ,0.05699690,0.00131690,-0.00236310,0.00186655,0.03097855,0.04340165,-0.00690060,0.01097355,-0.02187710,-0.01639320,0.01558220,0.00089560,-0.00886335,0.00290045,-0.00126605,-0.00568710,0.00947355,0.00248615,-0.00776400,-0.00910345,0.00472095

En distancias de 0.25X.

El % del Moroccan vendría a representar el total del aporte NA moderno+antiguo, y el MAR_TAFORALT el aporte antiguo del componente NA.

Así restando al % Moroccan el % MAR_TAFORALT nos daría el aporte moderno, y podríamos ver la proporción de uno u otro, en diferentes distancias, y calcular una media aproximada en ellas para tener una media general.

Por ejemplo:


Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 2.7839% / 0.02783920
92.6 Basque
7.4 Moroccan

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 2.9121% / 0.02912123 | ADC: 0.5x
95.8 Basque
4.2 Moroccan

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 2.7926% / 0.02792588 | ADC: 0.25x
93.4 Basque
6.6 Moroccan



Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 3.0099% / 0.03009887
96.6 Basque
3.4 MAR_Taforalt

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 3.1540% / 0.03154013 | ADC: 0.5x
98.6 Basque
1.4 MAR_Taforalt

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 3.0236% / 0.03023582 | ADC: 0.25x
97.2 Basque
2.8 MAR_Taforalt


DIST:NO=7.4 Moroccan-3.4 MAR_TAFORALT-----4 moderno/3.4 antiguo----54%moderno/46% antiguo
DIST:0.25X=6.6 Moroccan-2.8 MAR_TAFORALT-----3.8 moderno/2.8antiguo----57.7% moderno/42.3% antiguo
DIST:0.5X=4.2 Moroccan-1.4 MAR_TAFORALT-----2.8 moderno/ 1.4 antiguo---66.7% moderno/33.3% antiguo

La media sería 59.4% moderno y 40.6% antiguo.

Cosas que están mal?

Prácticamente todo, desde un sample muy moderno de Moroccan que tendrá bastante mezcla Ibérica, hasta usar un sample vasco como referente Ibérico, y unas cuantas cosas más.

Pero bueno, a día de hoy tampoco hay muchas mejores formas de separar aportes antiguos y modernos de un componente.

Otro método sería simplemente calcular proporciones observando la lista de distancias, pero este método es más entretenido, si os aburrís y os apetece jugar con números, es un buen entretenimiento, aunque no sirva para gran cosa.:)

Y como siempre, no es más que un juego.

JJJ
06-12-2020, 10:50 AM
Target: Juan_scaled
Distance: 4.3961% / 0.04396066 | ADC: 0.25x
93.2 Basque
6.8 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Juan_scaled
Distance: 3.6619% / 0.03661919 | ADC: 0.25x
85.0 Basque
15.0 Moroccan


15 - 6.8 = 8.2% de aporte moderno.

No sé si es util calcular con solo 2 referencias.

mokordo
06-12-2020, 11:58 AM
Target: Juan_scaled
Distance: 4.3961% / 0.04396066 | ADC: 0.25x
93.2 Basque
6.8 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Juan_scaled
Distance: 3.6619% / 0.03661919 | ADC: 0.25x
85.0 Basque
15.0 Moroccan


15 - 6.8 = 8.2% de aporte moderno.

No sé si es util calcular con solo 2 referencias.

ñiñiñi ñiñiñi No sé si es util calcular con solo 2 referencias.:P

Que tiquismiquis sóis siempre. Mira que lo dije claro:


Cosas que están mal?

Prácticamente todo, desde un sample muy moderno de Moroccan que tendrá bastante mezcla Ibérica, hasta usar un sample vasco como referente Ibérico, y unas cuantas cosas más.

Pero bueno, a día de hoy tampoco hay muchas mejores formas de separar aportes antiguos y modernos de un componente.

Otro método sería simplemente calcular proporciones observando la lista de distancias, pero este método es más entretenido, si os aburrís y os apetece jugar con números, es un buen entretenimiento, aunque no sirva para gran cosa.

Y como siempre, no es más que un juego.

No es más que una idea de base o una propuesta, si quieres mejórala.(Tocapelotas)

mokordo
06-12-2020, 12:02 PM
Target: Juan_scaled
Distance: 4.3961% / 0.04396066 | ADC: 0.25x
93.2 Basque
6.8 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Juan_scaled
Distance: 3.6619% / 0.03661919 | ADC: 0.25x
85.0 Basque
15.0 Moroccan


15 - 6.8 = 8.2% de aporte moderno.



8.2 moderno y 6.8 antiguo sería un 54.7% moderno y un 45.3 % antiguo, en 0.25X.

Faltaría hacer lo mismo con otras distancias y sacar la media.

Sé que es una mierda de método que en realidad está lleno de fallos y no discrimina nada realmente, pero es lo que hay.

JJJ
06-12-2020, 12:28 PM
8.2 moderno y 6.8 antiguo sería un 54.7% moderno y un 45.3 % antiguo, en 0.25X.

Faltaría hacer lo mismo con otras distancias y sacar la media.

Sé que es una mierda de método que en realidad está lleno de fallos y no discrimina nada realmente, pero es lo que hay.

Solo te dice cuánto de vasco eres comparado con una referencia con mezcla mediterránea y africana, de manera muy amplia. Sacas mejores distancias debido a que estás mucho más cerca de la muestra vasca.

mokordo
06-12-2020, 01:10 PM
Solo te dice cuánto de vasco eres comparado con una referencia con mezcla mediterránea y africana, de manera muy amplia. Sacas mejores distancias debido a que estás mucho más cerca de la muestra vasca.


No pretende decir cuánto es cada uno de vasco, solo usé ese sample, que es la media del Basque_french y el Basque_French como muestra "pura" del Ibérico, sé que tiene sus limitaciones y problemas derivado hacer esto, pero lo que digo, es solo una propuesta. No creo que ninguna de estas dos muestras tengan un NA reseñable, porque básicamente esa es la principal diferencia entre otras poblaciones peninsulares y la vasca nativa.

Probando con mis samples de Iberian_peninsula y demás, como suelen tener parte de NA incorporado, me sale 100% Ibérico y no me separa el NA, por eso lo hice así. No soy el único que hace esto, ya lo has visto tú también que otros hacen cosas similares.

Lo que decía de comparar distancias, no hace falta ni poner muestra vasca o ibérica, solo hacen falta la Moroccan y la MAR_Taforalt. Igual sería más fiable, pero es menos divertido. En este modelo la distancia del resultado es lo de menos, ni me he fijado en ellas.

alejandromb92
06-12-2020, 02:45 PM
Lo que han hecho ustedes 2 (Juan y Mokordo) ha sido una buenisima idea y buen experimento para calcular que posible % de norafricano o genetica compartida con el Maghreb tiene cualquier de nosotros, pero hay un problema...

El usar la referencia vasca para aislar toda una herencia iberica del resto de etnias, en mi opinion personal no va a ser exacto, porque los vascos, asi digamos que no, son algo diferentes a los españoles, por falta de Estepa y por un Agricultor y Cazador-Recolector muy alto en comparacion al resto de peninsulares.

Shadogowah
06-12-2020, 03:01 PM
Lo que han hecho ustedes 2 (Juan y Mokordo) ha sido una buenisima idea y buen experimento para calcular que posible % de norafricano o genetica compartida con el Maghreb tiene cualquier de nosotros, pero hay un problema...

El usar la referencia vasca para aislar toda una herencia iberica del resto de etnias, en mi opinion personal no va a ser exacto, porque los vascos, asi digamos que no, son algo diferentes a los españoles, por falta de Estepa y por un Agricultor y Cazador-Recolector muy alto en comparacion al resto de peninsulares.

Siempre se nos vende que son el paradigma del ibérico de la edad del hierro.

En vez de usar la referencia vasca, quizás podríais probar con una media de diversos Iberian_IA.

O qué pelotas. Una media de todo lo que haya previo a la invasión islámica y así metes lo que haya entrado con los romanos.

mokordo
06-12-2020, 04:44 PM
Lo que han hecho ustedes 2 (Juan y Mokordo) ha sido una buenisima idea y buen experimento para calcular que posible % de norafricano o genetica compartida con el Maghreb tiene cualquier de nosotros, pero hay un problema...

El usar la referencia vasca para aislar toda una herencia iberica del resto de etnias, en mi opinion personal no va a ser exacto, porque los vascos, asi digamos que no, son algo diferentes a los españoles, por falta de Estepa y por un Agricultor y Cazador-Recolector muy alto en comparacion al resto de peninsulares.

Cómo que ustedes? Si he sido yo!!! el triple J solo critica mi gran idea.B)

Ahora en serio, no sirve de mucho, básicamente nos va a salir a todos la misma proporción, no sirve para discriminar nada aparte de la proporción de Mar_Taforalt en la media de todos los individual samples marroquíes modrnos que es lo que es el Moroccan del datasheet del average pop.

Los tres que lo hemos hecho sacamos una proporción semejante de alrededor de un 55% moderno y un 45% antiguo, y creo que se debe a eso, a que solo muestra lo que comento. Algo así solo se podría saber comparando SNP´s que se relacionen con unos u otros directamente, algo que nosotros no podemos hacer y que igual nadie puede ahora mismo.

sweuro
06-12-2020, 05:20 PM
Si se quiere hacer una composición usando Vascos, habría que añadir una tercera fuente que son el aporte Este mediterráneo (básicamente aporte Romano) , a modo de ejemplo:

Target: Spanish_Valencia
Distance: 1.4641% / 0.01464082
77.0 Basque_Spanish
21.2 ITA_Rome_Imperial
1.8 MAR_Taforalt


E incluso mejora más si añade un aporte extra del norte de Europa:

Target: Spanish_Valencia
Distance: 0.9306% / 0.00930643
62.4 Basque_Spanish
18.8 ITA_Rome_Imperial
16.6 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria
2.2 MAR_Taforalt

mokordo
06-12-2020, 05:37 PM
Si se quiere hacer una composición usando Vascos, habría que añadir una tercera fuente que son el aporte Este mediterráneo (básicamente aporte Romano) , a modo de ejemplo:

Target: Spanish_Valencia
Distance: 1.4641% / 0.01464082
77.0 Basque_Spanish
21.2 ITA_Rome_Imperial
1.8 MAR_Taforalt


E incluso mejora más si añade un aporte extra del norte de Europa:

Target: Spanish_Valencia
Distance: 0.9306% / 0.00930643
62.4 Basque_Spanish
18.8 ITA_Rome_Imperial
16.6 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria
2.2 MAR_Taforalt

Si nos pones todos los samples de las sources que usas, nos ahorrarás el trabajo de tener que buscarlas nosotros mismos.

De todas formas, no se trata de ver que % NA sale, si no de buscar una forma de discriminar aportes antiguos y modernos. Tampoco de buscar distancias buenas o ver lo vascos que somos.

mokordo
06-12-2020, 05:43 PM
Pongo las sources que utilizaste, y mis resultados con ellas.


Basque_Spanish,0.1319083,0.1504111,0.0582862,0.009 0081,0.0575834,0.0001239,-0.0033162,0.0004102,0.0313603,0.0455997,-0.0045288,0.0116063,-0.0227781,-0.0187627,0.0179452,0.0037271,-0.0058094,0.0027731,-0.0018156,-6.96e-05,0.0087901,0.0024868,-0.0068883,-0.0090371,0.0022619
ITA_Rome_Imperial,0.1039821,0.1495156,-0.0235307,-0.0574065,0.0045265,-0.0204055,-0.0011946,-0.0051488,0.0006604,0.0196549,0.0034575,0.0025539,-0.0040602,-0.0014737,-0.0081715,-0.0014474,0.0035992,0.000454,0.0012178,-0.0032854,-0.0025579,0.0020454,-0.0006985,-0.0004845,0.0004141
MAR_Taforalt,-0.189857,0.0814452,-0.0242866,-0.085595,0.027636,-0.0552202,-0.0705968,0.0184146,0.155397,0.003499,0.0209156,-0.0318316,0.0747168,-0.0513334,0.0711988,-0.0363032,0.0052676,-0.066106,-0.1424162,0.0389938,-0.0376836,-0.1255322,0.0730118,-0.0137606,0.0164534
Bell_Beaker_Bavaria,0.1271445,0.1324326,0.052713,0 .0416909,0.0331913,0.0126844,0.0009922,0.0016324,0 .0044465,0.0071138,-0.0007698,0.0066884,-0.0102576,-0.0124217,0.0121041,0.0082649,0.0028733,0.0016705, 0.002514,0.0048264,0.0046076,0.002125,-0.001164,0.0008301,-0.001539

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 1.7450% / 0.01745001
65.2 Basque_Spanish
17.8 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria
15.2 ITA_Rome_Imperial
1.8 MAR_Taforalt

mokordo
06-12-2020, 05:59 PM
Y si le cambio Bell_Beaker_Bavaria por un Che_IA y le añado un sample Ibérico antiguo:


Basque_Spanish,0.1319083,0.1504111,0.0582862,0.009 0081,0.0575834,0.0001239,-0.0033162,0.0004102,0.0313603,0.0455997,-0.0045288,0.0116063,-0.0227781,-0.0187627,0.0179452,0.0037271,-0.0058094,0.0027731,-0.0018156,-6.96e-05,0.0087901,0.0024868,-0.0068883,-0.0090371,0.0022619
MAR_Taforalt,-0.189857,0.0814452,-0.0242866,-0.085595,0.027636,-0.0552202,-0.0705968,0.0184146,0.155397,0.003499,0.0209156,-0.0318316,0.0747168,-0.0513334,0.0711988,-0.0363032,0.0052676,-0.066106,-0.1424162,0.0389938,-0.0376836,-0.1255322,0.0730118,-0.0137606,0.0164534
ITA_Rome_Imperial,0.1039821,0.1495156,-0.0235307,-0.0574065,0.0045265,-0.0204055,-0.0011946,-0.0051488,0.0006604,0.0196549,0.0034575,0.0025539,-0.0040602,-0.0014737,-0.0081715,-0.0014474,0.0035992,0.000454,0.0012178,-0.0032854,-0.0025579,0.0020454,-0.0006985,-0.0004845,0.0004141
Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES,0.118376,0.1457285,0.0446885,0.013566,0.044 6235,-0.000139,0.0005875,0.007615,0.024441,0.0266065,-0.0080385,0.008917,-0.0064665,-0.006675,0.012079,0.002055,-0.008279,0.004371,-0.000754,0.0027515,-0.0004995,-0.0009275,-0.0056695,0.00241,-0.0022755
CHE_IA,0.125205,0.153345,0.050534,-0.003876,0.049548,-0.005578,0.0047,-0.002077,0.014726,0.033896,0.001786,0.016335,-0.016353,-0.008945,0.001764,-0.001591,0.009518,0.001647,0.002514,-0.006128,0.005241,0.005688,-0.012078,-0.004338,0.000958


Me mejoran bastante las distancias:

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 1.3033% / 0.01303329
46.6 Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES
32.6 Basque_Spanish
13.0 CHE_IA
6.6 ITA_Rome_Imperial
1.2 MAR_Taforalt

Y solo con estos tres:


MAR_Taforalt,-0.189857,0.0814452,-0.0242866,-0.085595,0.027636,-0.0552202,-0.0705968,0.0184146,0.155397,0.003499,0.0209156,-0.0318316,0.0747168,-0.0513334,0.0711988,-0.0363032,0.0052676,-0.066106,-0.1424162,0.0389938,-0.0376836,-0.1255322,0.0730118,-0.0137606,0.0164534
Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES,0.118376,0.1457285,0.0446885,0.013566,0.044 6235,-0.000139,0.0005875,0.007615,0.024441,0.0266065,-0.0080385,0.008917,-0.0064665,-0.006675,0.012079,0.002055,-0.008279,0.004371,-0.000754,0.0027515,-0.0004995,-0.0009275,-0.0056695,0.00241,-0.0022755
CHE_IA,0.125205,0.153345,0.050534,-0.003876,0.049548,-0.005578,0.0047,-0.002077,0.014726,0.033896,0.001786,0.016335,-0.016353,-0.008945,0.001764,-0.001591,0.009518,0.001647,0.002514,-0.006128,0.005241,0.005688,-0.012078,-0.004338,0.000958


Sigo teniendo unas distancias aceptables:

arget: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 1.6105% / 0.01610547
62.2 Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES
36.4 CHE_IA
1.4 MAR_Taforalt

Pero no era eso lo que buscaba.

Edit:me refiero a distancias, aunque puede servir también de alguna forma a mi primera intención, ahora que lo veo.:)

mokordo
06-12-2020, 06:03 PM
Osea, lo mismo que antes pero comparando varios resultados con diferentes samples...

JJJ
06-12-2020, 06:50 PM
Target: Juan_scaled
Distance: 3.5563% / 0.03556308
51.8 Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES
42.2 CHE_IA
6.0 MAR_Taforalt

Aben Aboo
01-25-2021, 06:50 PM
Hello,
My results with your model:
Mycenaean,0.009475,0.0154,-0.00215,-0.020025,0.00705,-0.009725,-0.000225,-0.000925,0.00265,0.025975,0.0034,0.0113,-0.0086,-0.00045,-0.012075,-0.0074,0.016125,0.00285,0.0098,-0.003175,-0.0047,0.00015,-0.00535,0.00095,-6e-04
Iberia_BA,0.0112,0.01525,0.0144,-2e-04,0.022,0.0013,-0.00095,8e-04,0.0194,0.0301,-9e-04,0.00475,-0.0142,-0.0176,0.00645,0.00135,-0.00045,0.00235,0.00155,0.0027,0.00485,-0.00075,-0.00725,-0.01265,0.00885
Hallstatt_Celt:DA111,0.0109,0.0149,0.0168,0.0081,0 .0142,0.0021,0.0005,0.001,0.0102,0.0134,-0.0076,0.0001,-0.0112,-0.0023,0.0108,-0.0072,-0.014,0.003,0.0047,0.0013,0.0079,0.0049,-0.0036,-0.0049,-0.0044
Nordic_BA,0.0103,0.0136667,0.0177333,0.0172333,0.0 098,0.0085333,0.0049667,0.0007667,-0.0004667,-0.0020667,-0.0015333,0.0024667,-0.0038667,-0.0101333,0.0104333,0.0083333,0.0082667,0.0033667, 0.0052,0.0022667,0.0091667,-0.0039667,0.0022,-0.0017333,-0.0062333
Armenia_MBA,0.0091,0.01205,-0.0084,-0.0041,-0.0114,-0.001,0.0014,-0.00285,-0.0262,-0.01035,0.00255,0,-0.00515,0.00125,0.01025,-2e-04,0.00065,-0.0029,0.00045,-1e-04,0.00435,0.00105,0.0044,-0.00065,8e-04
North_African,-0.00346,0.01294,-0.00062,-0.02128,0.01096,-0.01304,-0.01276,0.00358,0.03466,0.01676,0.00466,-0.004,0.01228,-0.01286,0.0171,-0.00984,0.00244,-0.01516,-0.03526,0.00832,-0.0108,-0.0305,0.01888,-0.00098,0.00386
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,0.00714,0.01446,-0.01626,-0.03032,-0.00342,-0.01396,-0.00204,-0.00286,0.0056,0.00558,0.00646,-0.00652,0.01452,0.004,-0.00558,0.00492,-0.00012,-0.00094,0.0012,0.0034,0.00342,0.0061,-0.00102,0.00132,-0.00042
Yoruba,-0.0553545,0.0061545,0.0058636,0.0051727,0.0001636, 0.0044727,-0.0189,0.0207,-0.0239,0.0179818,0.0028455,0.0005273,0.0155091,0.0 006909,0.0092273,-0.0072455,0.0054273,0.0003545,0.0047909,-0.0023909,0.0012455,0.0018727,-0.0014273,-0.0003909,-0.0003545


Target: AbenAboo
Distance: 1.3301% / 0.01330051
57.6 Hallstatt_Celt
20.0 North_African
11.6 Armenia_MBA
5.0 Iberia_BA
5.0 Mycenaean
0.8 Yoruba

mokordo
01-25-2021, 11:09 PM
Ultimate Iberian Calculator.(For everybody but focused in Iberian ancestry)

Recommended 0.25X

Un pequeño poupourri de referencias usadas de varios modelos y calculadores, he estado a punto de mezclar TODAS las referencias que tengo, pero podrían explotar vuestros PCs:nod:


Iberian_Peninsula:SouthWest1,0.0947128,0.1458888,0 .0329882,-0.0081685,0.0415461,-0.0060402,-0.0042116,0.0017368,0.0281598,0.0301074,-0.0013248,0.0062668,-0.010191,-0.0125129,0.0106327,-0.0023483,-0.0044572,-0.0022938,-0.0075518,-0.0005726,0.0017666,-0.0038658,-0.0001654,-0.0043759,0.0017931
Iberian_Peninsula:SouthWest2,0.1066143,0.1480178,0 .0343842,-0.0023092,0.0430928,-0.0043227,-0.0029623,0.0008298,0.0246971,0.0311927,-0.0017266,0.0061589,-0.011906,-0.0118282,0.0088992,0.0000546,-0.0042616,-0.0021971,-0.0053356,-0.0008578,0.0025252,-0.0030208,-0.0017253,-0.0040524,0.0016609
Iberian_Peninsula:SouthWest3,0.1103136,0.1489866,0 .0367065,-0.0022072,0.0415074,-0.0037999,-0.0028494,0.0003653,0.024662,0.0325823,-0.0017051,0.0068687,-0.0129399,-0.012317,0.008918,0.0007736,-0.0041886,-0.001742,-0.0032682,-0.0001355,0.0037902,-0.0016282,-0.0012632,-0.0033287,0.0001798
Iberian_Peninsula:SouthWest4,0.107153,0.1453437,0. 0358575,-0.0039328,0.0436962,-0.0049531,-0.0028354,0.0027098,0.0251567,0.0304517,-0.0014439,0.0073469,-0.0129723,-0.0113357,0.0114001,-0.0014481,-0.0036539,-0.0009936,-0.0050112,-0.0011889,0.0020335,-0.0019368,-0.0003352,-0.003233,0.0008896
Iberian_Peninsula:SouthWest5,0.0937339,0.1451566,0 .0331382,-0.0086673,0.039987,-0.0051366,-0.0051174,0.0017868,0.0286013,0.0293967,-0.0006149,0.0063413,-0.0099561,-0.0124403,0.0117895,-0.001298,-0.0019349,-0.0021871,-0.0083026,0.0003711,0.000871,-0.004501,0.0014714,-0.0022755,0.0007982
Iberian_Peninsula:CenterWest1,0.1069632,0.1442391, 0.0382424,-0.0032925,0.0429699,-0.0010951,-0.0027323,0.0036874,0.0270135,0.0294797,-0.0015309,0.0076322,-0.0124142,-0.0116411,0.0124084,-0.0034694,-0.0039557,-0.0013091,-0.0051435,-0.001269,0.0007145,-0.0017394,0.0013081,-0.0018515,-0.0014297
Iberian_Peninsula:Center1,0.1116414,0.1459401,0.04 04147,-0.0026917,0.0429436,-0.0014759,-0.0017136,0.0031729,0.0265369,0.0315799,-0.0022193,0.0082675,-0.013683,-0.0122025,0.0112705,-0.0038008,-0.006405,-0.0009607,-0.0023254,-0.0014904,0.002875,0.0002885,0.0001335,-0.0032282,-0.0019159
Iberian_Peninsula:Center2,0.1147717,0.1480979,0.04 36202,-0.0052757,0.0488294,-0.0043694,-0.0018017,0.0034615,0.0280199,0.0340172,-0.0038434,0.006769,-0.014519,-0.013441,0.009455,0.003558,0.0018907,-0.0020692,-0.0025765,-0.0008964,0.006634,0.0007212,-0.0004517,-0.0059847,-0.000958
Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest1,0.1074692,0.1455367,0 .0385359,-0.0030413,0.0416707,-0.0020712,-0.0045992,0.0025915,0.0251558,0.0298848,-0.0014316,0.006579,-0.0126743,-0.0117099,0.0118505,0.0000958,-0.0026846,-0.0015238,-0.0054019,-0.0006264,0.0010057,-0.0027355,0.0002468,-0.0024072,0.0005993
Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest2,0.1082583,0.1451643,0 .0407708,-0.0019021,0.0425035,0.0008832,-0.0035903,0.0035191,0.026571,0.0296234,-0.0022284,0.0067898,-0.0123512,-0.0120879,0.0117021,-0.0029759,-0.0055086,-0.001946,-0.0047834,-0.0016502,0.0005822,-0.0019029,0.0002534,-0.0031261,-0.0007251
Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest3,0.1095862,0.1453335,0 .0433481,-0.0005025,0.0464532,-0.003672,-0.0063711,0.0046731,0.0253442,0.0306868,-0.0026886,0.0069148,-0.0158202,-0.0106199,0.0127651,-0.0064014,-0.0100723,-0.0004469,-0.0052234,-0.0009413,0.0038682,-0.004479,-0.001205,-0.0011784,0.0038849
Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest4,0.114961,0.1458975,0. 0450032,0.0032839,0.04924,-0.0066004,-0.0039167,0.004423,0.0247817,0.0330457,-0.0044387,0.0083677,-0.0188305,-0.0129824,0.0117395,-0.0058785,-0.0097137,0.0012669,-0.0054049,-0.0028345,0.004825,-0.0026585,-0.0037794,-0.0002212,0.0035722
Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest5,0.1090802,0.1440359,0 .0430547,-0.0007537,0.0477524,-0.0026959,-0.0045042,0.005769,0.0272019,0.0302817,-0.0027879,0.007968,-0.01556,-0.010551,0.013323,-0.0099665,-0.0113434,-0.0002322,-0.004965,-0.0015839,0.003577,-0.0034829,-0.0001437,-0.0006227,0.001856
Iberian_Peninsula:A,0.1072213,0.1440698,0.0360527,-0.0049311,0.0435568,-0.0050758,-0.0039167,0.0030151,0.0254836,0.0298017,-0.0009959,0.0085925,-0.0144102,-0.0117989,0.0143593,-0.0000442,0.0006173,-0.0007265,-0.0059916,0.0015091,0.0014307,-0.0018877,0.0016269,-0.0005382,-0.0003272
Iberian_Peninsula:E,0.1046033,0.1454238,0.0359396,-0.0036822,0.0400073,-0.0025099,-0.0034780,0.0023767,0.0257700,0.0296499,-0.0003411,0.0056649,-0.0102279,-0.0104594,0.0098531,-0.0009281,-0.0037550,-0.0011275,-0.0054177,-0.0028765,0.0006987,-0.0035983,0.0008134,-0.0020243,0.0002275
Iberian_Peninsula:NorthEast1,0.1170481,0.1463632,0 .0436362,0.0010229,0.0470216,-0.0000698,-0.0012827,0.0026632,0.0236311,0.0336987,-0.0020233,0.0094479,-0.0168298,-0.0117381,0.0108126,-0.0005968,-0.0027056,-0.0012194,-0.0016811,0.0000209,0.0048299,-0.0028181,-0.0025368,-0.0014913,0.0003591
Iberian_Peninsula:NorthEast3,0.1136333,0.1451784,0 .0409332,-0.0012382,0.0453288,0.0008599,-0.001126,0.0037785,0.0266648,0.0330607,-0.0022398,0.0090733,-0.0148723,-0.0124263,0.0125089,-0.0046628,-0.0057695,-0.0012616,-0.0033781,-0.0006461,0.0018768,-0.000407,0.000072,-0.0018124,-0.0014968
Iberian_Peninsula:CenterEast1,0.1170479,0.1457708, 0.0407289,-0.0018438,0.043598,-0.0018361,-0.0012729,0.002048,0.0211939,0.0312687,-0.0037756,0.0081366,-0.0139372,-0.0124777,0.0067691,0.0007015,-0.0013473,-0.0003326,-0.0000524,-0.0026471,0.0030573,-0.0003763,-0.0004056,-0.0024097,-0.0010277
Iberian_Peninsula:CenterEast2,0.1153407,0.1465748, 0.0432432,-0.0002153,0.043957,-0.0011157,-0.0012925,0.0024228,0.0207933,0.0298868,-0.0032209,0.0082677,-0.0155105,-0.011629,0.0064017,0.0019224,0.0006737,-0.0002957,0.0000002,-0.0026679,0.0033692,-0.0025555,-0.001335,-0.0008032,-0.0015767
Iberian_Peninsula:CenterEast3,0.1162893,0.1454323, 0.0433691,0.0007403,0.0468293,-0.0007204,-0.0020171,0.0020095,0.0227619,0.0318762,-0.0024495,0.0084612,-0.0144327,-0.0114914,0.0092348,0.0003702,-0.0026729,-0.001684,-0.0011835,-0.0009379,0.0058854,-0.0035498,-0.0029733,-0.0035346,0.0015067
Iberian_Peninsula:CenterEast4,0.1175224,0.1472518, 0.0408705,-0.0017765,0.0444697,-0.0024753,-0.0011163,0.0023364,0.0247729,0.0354223,-0.0021313,0.0094978,-0.0164643,-0.0126098,0.0115194,-0.0019225,-0.0053947,-0.0004909,-0.0011785,0.0001563,0.0044608,0.0007883,-0.0011093,-0.0024703,-0.0006587
Iberian_Peninsula:CenterSouth,0.1118312,0.1470447, 0.0380297,-0.003332,0.0436699,-0.0053339,-0.0018167,0.0021953,0.0246801,0.032552,-0.0021323,0.0079822,-0.0142411,-0.0118972,0.0102622,-0.0017795,-0.0061032,-0.0006451,-0.0021931,-0.0014103,0.0041941,0.0000911,-0.0015098,-0.0046097,0.0004033
Iberian_Peninsula:SouthEast2,0.1087009,0.144506,0. 036804,-0.004624,0.0453626,-0.0039743,-0.0034617,-0.0003431,0.024987,0.0316862,-0.0027819,0.005341,-0.0127916,-0.0111059,0.0074797,-0.001962,-0.0025829,-0.0001224,-0.0021616,-0.000566,0.0039757,-0.0021192,-0.001325,-0.0041728,0.0019301
Iberian_Peninsula:SouthEast3,0.1136333,0.1437822,0 .0393777,-0.0033511,0.04597,-0.0017663,-0.0034957,-0.0008557,0.0242106,0.0327341,-0.0032071,0.0058698,-0.0126177,-0.0115718,0.0071591,-0.0011381,-0.0018417,-0.0004327,-0.0006494,0.0000417,0.0052979,-0.0021537,-0.0013609,-0.0040767,0.0020158
Iberian_Peninsula:SouthEast4,0.1124003,0.1454748,0 .0391263,-0.004522,0.0437772,-0.0034514,-0.0033488,-0.0008076,0.0249519,0.0330758,-0.0027604,0.0060508,-0.0138255,-0.0115948,0.0074985,-0.001243,-0.0025099,0.0003328,-0.0000943,0.0001563,0.0052406,-0.0007266,-0.0008629,-0.0034491,0.000449
Iberian_Peninsula:North1,0.1206526,0.1494095,0.044 076,-0.0043605,0.0503554,-0.0053688,-0.0012044,0.002625,0.0262559,0.0378595,-0.0037554,0.0079993,-0.0173003,-0.0138483,0.0097039,0.0054363,0.0029009,-0.0015994,-0.0014296,0.0007503,0.0082198,0.0012209,-0.0016944,-0.0052268,0.0002993
Iberian_Peninsula:North2,0.1206527,0.1492827,0.045 506,-0.0045759,0.0512915,-0.0059032,-0.0025459,0.0004234,0.0262815,0.0387555,-0.0051694,0.0085924,-0.0161049,-0.0159414,0.0111517,0.0082429,0.0009127,-0.0006547,-0.00155,-0.0010214,0.0088177,0.0024522,-0.0045804,-0.0046794,0.0027942
Iberian_Peninsula:North3,0.125016,0.1519907,0.0515 397,-0.0001615,0.052984,-0.0040904,-0.0008225,0.0026155,0.0276789,0.0393325,-0.0056297,0.0075184,-0.0190035,-0.013464,0.0125314,0.005591,-0.0008912,0.0002322,0.0007964,-0.0030434,0.0103567,-0.0000415,-0.004375,-0.0080735,0.002255
Iberian_Peninsula:North4,0.1238777,0.1489443,0.050 2827,0.0036607,0.0504195,0.0006045,-0.0014884,0.0007309,0.0263494,0.039272,-0.00544,0.0104157,-0.0181614,-0.0145424,0.017033,0.0001769,-0.0105395,0.0019845,-0.0001257,-0.0045647,0.0061973,0.0000617,-0.0067374,-0.0033539,0.0042112
Iberian_Peninsula:North5,0.1179967,0.1477595,0.048 3968,0.0029609,0.0479574,0.0021383,-0.0007442,0.003769,0.0280877,0.0345337,-0.004114,0.0085924,-0.0165755,-0.012042,0.0153364,-0.004508,-0.0095615,0.00057,-0.0011522,-0.0044397,0.0040137,-0.0016694,-0.0026087,-0.0046592,0.000459
Iberian_Peninsula:North6,0.1238775,0.1496212,0.050 3453,0.0069984,0.049445,-0.0017662,-0.0001567,0.002423,0.0256675,0.0372977,-0.0057648,0.008992,-0.019846,-0.0144734,0.0137529,-0.00042,-0.0079318,0.002069,-0.001592,-0.0056904,0.0052617,-0.000845,-0.0062444,-0.0042577,0.0021752
Iberian_Peninsula:North7,0.1136332,0.1457284,0.042 4258,0.0018842,0.0452904,-0.0020452,-0.0011358,0.003269,0.0260085,0.0319823,-0.0039785,0.0082427,-0.0153615,-0.0144504,0.0106765,-0.002453,-0.00515,-0.0002323,-0.0049649,-0.0035434,0.001539,-0.0000824,-0.002321,-0.0021688,-0.0010379
Iberian_Peninsula:Center,0.11164140,0.14594010,0.0 4041465,-0.00269165,0.04294360,-0.00147585,-0.00171355,0.00317290,0.02653685,0.03157990,-0.00221925,0.00826750,-0.01368300,-0.01220250,0.01127050,-0.00380075,-0.00640495,-0.00096065,-0.00232535,-0.00149035,0.00287500,0.00028850,0.00013350,-0.00322815,-0.00191590
Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest_Iberia,0.10746950,0.14 553650,0.03853550,-0.00304150,0.04167050,-0.00207100,-0.00459900,0.00259150,0.02515550,0.02988500,-0.00143150,0.00657900,-0.01267400,-0.01171000,0.01185050,0.00009550,-0.00268450,-0.00152400,-0.00540200,-0.00062600,0.00100550,-0.00273550,0.00024650,-0.00240750,0.00059950
Iberian_Peninsula:North_Iberia,0.12242300,0.148492 67,0.04831367,0.00441433,0.04920567,-0.00158033,-0.00117500,0.00112833,0.02542900,0.03776333,-0.00550333,0.00982467,-0.01831833,-0.01532200,0.01438633,0.00066300,-0.00819967,0.00174567,-0.00188533,-0.00464133,0.00506033,0.00028867,-0.00647733,-0.00282500,0.00303367
Iberian_PeninsulaIberian:NorthEast_Iberia,0.116289 50,0.14543250,0.04336900,0.00072050,0.04682900,-0.00072050,-0.00201750,0.00200900,0.02276150,0.03187600,-0.00244950,0.00846100,-0.01443250,-0.01149150,0.00923450,0.00037000,-0.00267300,-0.00168400,-0.00118350,-0.00093800,0.00588550,-0.00354950,-0.00297350,-0.00353450,0.00150700
Iberian_PeninsulaIberian:SouthWest_Iberia,0.106467 33,0.14688233,0.03492500,-0.00301667,0.04277467,-0.00423167,-0.00322200,0.00147333,0.02499733,0.03070867,-0.00139567,0.00657967,-0.01218267,-0.01163967,0.01011833,-0.00009600,-0.00321833,-0.00176033,-0.00547800,-0.00065367,0.00206267,-0.00287133,-0.00071667,-0.00307933,0.00107233
Iberian_Peninsula:SouthEast_Iberia,0.11097733,0.14 567500,0.03798667,-0.00415933,0.04427033,-0.00425333,-0.00287600,0.00034833,0.02487300,0.03243767,-0.00255833,0.00645767,-0.01361933,-0.01153233,0.00841333,-0.00166133,-0.00373200,-0.00014500,-0.00148333,-0.00060700,0.00447000,-0.00091833,-0.00123267,-0.00407733,0.00092767
Iberian_Peninsula:North_BC,0.1320348,0.1515168,0.0 558892,0.0105298,0.0564412,0.0001114,-0.000611,0.001892,0.0296968,0.0435908,-0.0098732,0.0095016,-0.0205746,-0.0157716,0.0164766,0.0029964,-0.0075364,0.0035476,-0.002363,-0.0047022,0.0114298,0.0021268,-0.008997,-0.0093022,0.0010298
Berber:n7,-0.05386443,0.13448546,-0.00934256,-0.07596989,0.02513761,-0.03430853,-0.02823581,0.0071875,0.06447191,0.02839774,0.00649 851,-0.00760977,0.0223002,-0.01514833,0.01552203,-0.01224471,-0.00229253,-0.0202083,-0.04156531,0.00950406,-0.01390176,-0.03600231,0.02360911,-0.00271777,0.00473974
Arabian,0.05059585,0.13995270,-0.06513990,-0.11723870,-0.00940130,-0.04997380,-0.01229238,-0.00808298,0.05608075,-0.00410653,0.01556333,-0.03192903,0.06243548,0.00350273,0.00455410,0.0252 5745,-0.02140830,0.00386218,0.00015448,0.02687405,0.0126 3658,0.01614353,-0.00905183,0.00697205,-0.00832413
Baltic:Lithuanian+Estonian+Latvian,0.13452148,0.12 062239,0.08690013,0.08467086,0.04324176,0.03159824 ,0.0115997,0.01480449,-0.00163362,-0.03234143,-0.00249161,-0.01265707,0.02141043,0.02735196,-0.00952909,0.00204703,0.00200312,-0.00109701,0.00194781,0.00313233,-0.00184769,-0.00433336,0.00725102,-0.00543653,0.00193011
Irish:Irish+Ireland,0.1333156,0.133302,0.0612522,0 .0494899,0.03722405,0.01981505,0.003592715,0.00465 054,0.004015315,0.003132795,-0.006798435,0.006078655,-0.01399805,-0.0142284,0.02653675,0.005617805,-0.01122035,0.001576174,0.000440942,0.002223565,0.0 05053135,0.00133376,0.00095749,0.0140395,0.0002452 81
English:English+English_Cornwall,0.13102565,0.1383 9775,0.06157145,0.04359780,0.04056560,0.01657980,0 .00420955,0.00606750,0.00587280,0.00632250,-0.00470165,0.00604745,-0.01316735,-0.01029915,0.02068505,0.00336205,-0.01144795,0.00310430,0.00372315,0.00310190,0.0053 7285,0.00363740,-0.00201385,0.01408045,0.00036125
French:Cluster(A+B+C+D),0.1277379,0.1443788,0.0516 499,0.0220623,0.0441839,0.0081762,0.001742,0.00388 36,0.0173982,0.022762,-0.0051918,0.0069986,-0.0153028,-0.0111361,0.0157499,-0.0007448,-0.0078411,0.0025871,0.0010925,-0.0002574,0.0037564,0.002014,-0.0019068,0.0046416,0.0009724
Chinese,0.02574093,-0.44672400,0.00416373,-0.06463350,0.05351190,0.02476773,0.00551737,0.0020 7600,-0.01316077,0.00126697,-0.07530797,-0.01189107,0.01126457,-0.00655843,-0.00550930,0.00257083,0.00261210,0.00151403,0.0006 5540,-0.00996537,0.01280200,0.00725607,0.01069883,-0.00123393,-0.00250313
German:B,0.12850750,0.13434200,0.05953750,0.042428 00,0.04023600,0.01613500,0.00530550,0.00693350,0.0 0355100,0.00110350,-0.00542900,0.00348000,-0.00703950,-0.00569200,0.01297850,0.00431800,-0.00574350,0.00146500,0.00381850,0.00226650,0.0039 1550,0.00243600,0.00017000,0.01182950,-0.00010750
Greek,0.11140840,0.14591180,-0.00812253,-0.04104343,0.00871315,-0.01319430,0.00090083,-0.00172838,-0.00075845,0.01704973,0.00310060,0.00279748,-0.00398438,0.00354085,-0.00934730,-0.00112803,0.00415830,0.00021075,0.00356465,-0.00389083,-0.00505928,0.00134385,0.00106483,0.00079573,-0.00272183
India,0.05425723,-0.05224190,-0.14531813,0.10516810,-0.07525927,0.06000990,0.00056697,0.01146813,0.0299 5450,0.01783713,-0.00570163,-0.00016823,-0.00002613,0.00110113,0.00060693,-0.00117137,-0.00384817,0.00066970,0.00074737,-0.00379923,0.00015303,-0.00049060,0.00129760,0.00150510,-0.00206300
Italian:Center,0.11701408,0.14925148,0.00917310,-0.02814708,0.02221933,-0.01003865,0.00044550,-0.00159775,0.00642820,0.02364700,0.00002603,0.0045 2040,-0.00955638,-0.00467495,-0.00375115,0.00052440,0.00259400,0.00045623,0.0023 5623,-0.00327855,-0.00208228,0.00226180,-0.00011475,0.00257140,-0.00120693
Italian:South_Italian:Mainland,0.10765055,0.147301 15,-0.00740228,-0.04272373,0.01384175,-0.01458015,-0.00069750,-0.00217618,0.00395688,0.02090800,0.00024765,0.0030 1008,-0.00603383,-0.00056470,-0.00836273,-0.00287953,0.00428768,0.00024715,0.00346385,-0.00433768,-0.00310053,0.00091510,0.00123820,0.00246810,0.0000 4713
Italian:South_Italian:Sicilian,0.10168200,0.146067 00,-0.00383415,-0.03832935,0.01861865,-0.01259680,-0.00129250,0.00030765,0.01046465,0.02180770,0.0053 5865,0.00349700,-0.00418735,0.00250000,-0.00409415,-0.00483950,-0.00236850,-0.00059115,0.00180165,-0.00500250,0.00039535,0.00175180,-0.00254700,-0.00060250,0.00031915
Iran,0.08819270,0.10113475,-0.06562890,-0.02964950,-0.04627995,-0.00295545,0.00468410,-0.00464850,-0.02821040,-0.01373640,0.00216160,-0.00098600,0.00418345,-0.00166035,0.00498295,0.01070660,-0.00466300,0.00281875,0.00398130,-0.00991535,-0.00093175,-0.00418420,-0.00039000,-0.00518885,0.00490625
MiddleEast,0.05685165,0.12859275,-0.04813445,-0.06769060,-0.01581660,-0.02342100,-0.00406920,-0.00286015,0.00661045,-0.00050155,0.00442385,-0.00707060,0.01346310,-0.00017820,-0.00193140,0.00745640,-0.00185565,0.00011665,0.00003315,0.00229120,0.0015 7940,0.00151840,-0.00176365,0.00088215,-0.00121830
Turkish:Northwest+Turkish_South+Turkish_Southwest+ Turkish_Central,0.09640925,0.06378650,-0.02045625,-0.03320250,-0.02308875,-0.01185625,0.00550450,-0.00071725,-0.01859325,-0.00091900,-0.00156250,0.00106575,-0.00297950,0.00045875,-0.00413350,0.00206750,0.00507075,0.00100425,0.0012 1175,-0.00008175,-0.00320775,0.00049575,-0.00238325,0.00046100,0.00063825
Balkan:Macedonian_average,0.1234982,0.142851,0.027 0897,-0.0048988,0.0265692,-0.0016735,0.0021542,0.0006922,-0.0004092,0.007654,-0.0000272,-0.0004497,-0.000768,0.0067208,-0.0148163,0.0015688,0.0118215,0.0004647,0.007144,-0.0046895,-0.0078197,0.002102,0.0057927,-0.0000402,-0.0041313
Palestinian/Jewish,0.08970675,0.15220263,-0.04970895,-0.08630155,-0.00821318,-0.02909195,-0.00308430,-0.00400938,0.01374138,0.01814400,0.00735825,-0.00407470,0.00702445,0.00651988,-0.00855050,0.00501358,-0.00108388,0.00259705,0.00276545,0.00053945,-0.00321313,0.00803751,0.00093205,0.00186763,0.0012 6450
Scandinavian,0.13387755,0.12812600,0.07000080,0.05 487155,0.03977280,0.02123570,0.00562880,0.00779640 ,0.00531760,-0.00310225,-0.00426855,0.00259765,-0.00608450,-0.00776585,0.01803785,0.00670525,-0.00632675,0.00230450,0.00208300,0.00281375,0.0063 5490,0.00392150,0.00270265,0.01419580,0.00005980
Slav:A,0.13138390,0.12667805,0.06910955,0.05764665 ,0.03918105,0.02150315,0.00872160,0.01108490,-0.00191195,-0.01982615,-0.00299075,-0.00703905,0.01422465,0.02013115,-0.00912990,-0.00082800,0.00311790,-0.00038630,0.00264685,0.00149370,-0.00381375,-0.00329875,0.00617250,-0.00369530,0.00031705
SSA:A,-0.55687967,0.06753267,0.00828100,-0.00197833,-0.00047466,-0.00003500,-0.01680300,0.02377800,0.01856900,-0.02692533,-0.00502067,0.00591333,-0.01327400,0.00153100,-0.00610700,0.00092800,0.00531300,-0.00194267,0.00208467,-0.00411667,0.00054600,-0.00162833,-0.00365633,-0.00061267,0.00158167
SSA:B,-0.6242421,0.0639936,0.0215130,0.0145326,0.0028094, 0.0117579,-0.0161961,0.0216721,-0.0308661,0.0149323,0.0037054,0.0018871,-0.0006642,0.0019913,-0.0064682,0.0041677,-0.0048993,0.0149827,-0.0066659,0.0019943,0.0010692,0.0020188,0.0011803, 0.0001642,0.0012754
Turkic,0.08279575,-0.04872655,-0.00773435,-0.00521585,-0.04090210,-0.00345510,0.00827315,0.00604885,-0.01586195,-0.01025075,-0.00767745,-0.00170265,0.00110940,-0.00557500,0.00308635,0.00607450,-0.00259560,0.00098765,-0.00011860,-0.00280345,-0.00721875,-0.00283710,-0.00430805,-0.00055895,0.00290500
Turkish,0.09640925,0.06378650,-0.02045625,-0.03320250,-0.02308875,-0.01185625,0.00550450,-0.00071725,-0.01859325,-0.00091900,-0.00156250,0.00106575,-0.00297950,0.00045875,-0.00413350,0.00206750,0.00507075,0.00100425,0.0012 1175,-0.00008175,-0.00320775,0.00049575,-0.00238325,0.00046100,0.00063825
Yemenite,0.05174190,0.13874660,-0.06566620,-0.11837600,-0.00721070,-0.05182340,-0.01121515,-0.00798695,0.06050780,-0.00232075,0.01483365,-0.03200295,0.06152495,0.00486465,0.00592640,0.0233 3400,-0.02076730,0.00343125,0.00063025,0.02348350,0.0122 1305,0.01540175,-0.01090055,0.00567000,-0.00689545
Balkan:Albania+Macedonian_average,0.1208423,0.1423 011,0.021323,-0.0103898,0.0258639,-0.0045437,0.0027613,0.00125,0.0001278,0.011891,0.0 005413,0.0005495,-0.0039333,0.0066634,-0.0170557,-0.0012928,0.0099744,0.000982,0.0077201,-0.0053149,-0.0066913,0.0014116,0.0041083,0.0010795,-0.0033281
Central_African:Sudanese+Dinka,-0.5775005,0.0526722,0.0013323,-0.006242,-0.0040058,-0.0018036,-0.0139344,0.0170878,0.0772641,-0.0934263,-0.019959,0.0223263,-0.0376471,-0.0007547,0.0088819,-0.0184831,0.0183071,-0.0104032,0.0218107,-0.0212966,0.0008642,0.0039951,-0.0009284,-0.0012872,0.0066699
CentralAsian:Turkmen4,0.08279575,-0.04872655,-0.00773435,-0.00521585,-0.04090210,-0.00345510,0.00827315,0.00604885,-0.01586195,-0.01025075,-0.00767745,-0.00170265,0.00110940,-0.00557500,0.00308635,0.00607450,-0.00259560,0.00098765,-0.00011860,-0.00280345,-0.00721875,-0.00283710,-0.00430805,-0.00055895,0.00290500
CentralAsian:Kazakh3,0.0665865,-0.2208775,0.0475175,-0.0082365,-0.0329290,-0.0149205,0.0126910,0.0124610,-0.0087945,0.0023695,-0.0215165,-0.0026975,-0.0034190,-0.0008945,0.0006105,0.0034475,0.0044330,0.0001900,-0.0029540,0.0066905,-0.0124160,-0.0060590,-0.0080110,0.0012655,-0.0011380
CentralAsian:Uzbek2,0.0745540,-0.1066305,-0.0079195,0.0113050,-0.0363145,0.0034860,0.0052875,0.0014995,-0.0152370,-0.0084740,-0.0168070,-0.0059195,0.0058720,-0.0058490,0.0039355,0.0049060,-0.0074970,0.0022805,0.0006285,-0.0045645,-0.0089220,-0.0027205,-0.0036970,-0.0023495,0.0019760
CentralAsian:Tajik1,0.0882130,0.0187875,-0.0337525,0.0179265,-0.0415460,0.0145025,0.0068155,0.0003465,-0.0285310,-0.0217770,-0.0071450,0.0035220,-0.0055005,-0.0106655,0.0108575,0.0083535,-0.0011085,-0.0011405,0.0002515,-0.0090665,-0.0084225,-0.0001855,0.0022185,0.0007835,0.0030535
Chinese_and_Vietnamese:Guizhou+Hunan,0.0175621,-0.4495462,-0.0283127,-0.06706,0.1094813,0.0507666,-0.0002504,-0.0077922,-0.0172462,-0.0093943,-0.018801,-0.0049517,0.0043134,-0.006977,-0.0028555,0.0013078,0.0025359,-0.0008778,-0.0025027,-0.0120425,0.014891,0.0071037,0.0163572,-0.0010603,0.0012949
Chinese_and_Vietnamese:Han_Shandong+Han_Shanghai+H an_Henan,0.02574093,-0.44672400,0.00416373,-0.06463350,0.05351190,0.02476773,0.00551737,0.0020 7600,-0.01316077,0.00126697,-0.07530797,-0.01189107,0.01126457,-0.00655843,-0.00550930,0.00257083,0.00261210,0.00151403,0.0006 5540,-0.00996537,0.01280200,0.00725607,0.01069883,-0.00123393,-0.00250313
Slav:Russian+Belarusian,0.13119282,0.11441266,0.07 595197,0.0684007,0.03622404,0.02491509,0.010711,0. 01310470,-0.00143407,-0.02581,-0.00098054,-0.00889098,0.01865119,0.02380024,-0.01107937,-0.00297275,0.00002045,-0.00025557,0.00211417,0.00006978,-0.00253295,-0.00431923,0.00640435,-0.00531757,-0.0001691
Slav:Polish+Ukrainian,0.13138390,0.12667805,0.0691 0955,0.05764665,0.03918105,0.02150315,0.00872160,0 .01108490,-0.00191195,-0.01982615,-0.00299075,-0.00703905,0.01422465,0.02013115,-0.00912990,-0.00082800,0.00311790,-0.00038630,0.00264685,0.00149370,-0.00381375,-0.00329875,0.00617250,-0.00369530,0.00031705
Slav:Russia+Ukrania,0.1310153,0.1214563,0.0711987, 0.0603063,0.0356400,0.0220150,0.0089957,0.0116723,-0.0034180,-0.0234717,-0.0007067,-0.0075860,0.0157850,0.0231097,-0.0123050,-0.0018747,0.0027710,-0.0005210,0.0028207,0.0022073,-0.0037993,-0.0040860,0.0049800,-0.0048143,-0.0007887
Eskimo:Eskimo+EskimoChaplin+EskimoNaukan+EskimoSir eniki,0.0466149,-0.3688403,0.1187765,0.0399512,-0.1213249,-0.0441851,-0.0979141,-0.111901,0.0066266,-0.0124769,0.030207,-0.0045295,0.009208,-0.0185154,-0.033596,-0.0153971,-0.0032999,0.0167186,0.0371127,0.0203858,0.02997,-0.0514784,0.0093826,0.0270206,0.040713
Indonesian:Bali+Java,0.0106221,-0.3986474,-0.0812927,-0.0322972,0.1412676,0.0622616,-0.0047389,-0.0120334,-0.010409,-0.0188626,0.0828474,0.0076368,-0.0088529,0.0050521,0.0059755,0.0022143,-0.001228,-0.0009977,0.0012898,0.0094298,-0.0133561,0.0012463,-0.0118502,0.0009681,0.0161695
Malay:Malay+Kadar,0.0108985,-0.2706131,-0.1287679,0.0524638,0.033837,0.0542722,-0.0043064,0.004344,0.0358173,0.0190254,0.0301963,0 .0031173,-0.0040176,0.0072631,-0.0073358,-0.0083531,0.0043775,-0.0002788,0.0001288,0.0126843,-0.0014381,0.0025844,-0.0071392,0.0014279,-0.0034789
Filipino:Luzon+Vizayan,0.0119515,-0.418398,-0.058831,-0.0434435,0.1317165,0.0489455,-0.005405,-0.0102685,-0.0150325,-0.0164015,0.0457935,0.0046455,-0.0032705,-0.0020645,0.010315,0.0057675,-0.006845,0.0050045,0.006788,-0.009567,0.000312,-0.0284405,-0.003143,-0.0042175,-0.050714
Finnish:Finnish+FinnishEast,0.128582,0.083663,0.09 2565,0.078958,0.029816,0.023622,0.008876,0.014773, 0.004196,-0.026607,0.004236,-0.007461,0.015216,0.005767,0.001455,-0.002047,-0.006585,0.000171,-0.000392,0.004094,0.007928,0.001223,0.002531,0.005 306,0.003258
Amerindian:Surui+Karitiana,0.0583155,-0.3187578,0.1177434,0.1075438,-0.113734,-0.0145071,-0.32444,-0.3870877,-0.0164609,-0.019059,0.0015129,-0.0036867,0.000342,0.0315914,-0.00903,0.0025016,0.0109589,0.0006777,0.0001781,0. 0004607,-0.0045377,0.011782,-0.0061622,-0.0049885,-0.0079674

mokordo
01-25-2021, 11:12 PM
Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 1.4315% / 0.01431494
90.4 Iberian_Peninsula
5.0 Slav
4.2 Greek
0.4 Yemenite

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 1.4395% / 0.01439548 | ADC: 0.25x RC
91.4 Iberian_Peninsula
5.8 Balkan
2.8 Slav
**************************************
Target: gixajo_dad_scaled
Distance: 1.8746% / 0.01874576
76.8 Iberian_Peninsula
18.0 Italian
5.0 Berber
0.2 SSA

Target: gixajo_dad_scaled
Distance: 1.9404% / 0.01940382 | ADC: 0.25x RC
90.8 Iberian_Peninsula
9.2 Italian
*******************************************
Target: gixajo_mom_scaled
Distance: 1.6034% / 0.01603394
83.4 Iberian_Peninsula
11.2 French
3.0 Baltic
2.4 English


Target: gixajo_mom_scaled
Distance: 1.6150% / 0.01615048 | ADC: 0.25x RC
83.4 Iberian_Peninsula
13.6 French
3.0 Baltic

Luso
01-26-2021, 02:43 AM
Target: Luso_scaled
Distance: 1.8208% / 0.01820844
84.6 Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest5
9.2 Italian:South_Italian:Sicilian
2.4 Slav:Russian+Belarusian
2.0 Berber:n7
1.4 Central_African:Sudanese+Dinka
0.2 Iberian_Peninsula:North5
0.2 Eskimo:Eskimo+EskimoChaplin+EskimoNaukan+EskimoSir eniki

Target: Luso_scaled
Distance: 1.8324% / 0.01832356 | ADC: 0.25x RC
86.2 Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest5
5.8 Balkan:Albania+Macedonian_average
4.8 Italian:South_Italian:Sicilian
1.6 Berber:n7
1.6 Central_African:Sudanese+Dinka


Distance to: Luso_scaled
0.02461591 Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest5
0.02537503 Iberian_Peninsula:SouthWest1
0.02558890 Iberian_Peninsula:E
0.02616056 Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest3
0.02624700 Iberian_Peninsula:CenterWest1
0.02671080 Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest2
0.02730202 Iberian_Peninsula:SouthWest5
0.02744884 Iberian_Peninsula:SouthWest4
0.02773697 Iberian_Peninsula:Center1
0.02773703 Iberian_Peninsula:Center
0.02804261 Iberian_PeninsulaIberian:SouthWest_Iberia
0.02818949 Iberian_Peninsula:SouthWest2
0.02838475 Iberian_Peninsula:SouthEast2
0.02855333 Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest1
0.02855357 Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest_Iberia
0.02909182 Iberian_Peninsula:SouthEast_Iberia
0.02913985 Iberian_Peninsula:CenterSouth
0.02993889 Iberian_Peninsula:SouthWest3
0.03051109 Iberian_Peninsula:NorthEast3
0.03066770 Iberian_Peninsula:SouthEast4
0.03101647 Iberian_Peninsula:North7
0.03137999 Iberian_Peninsula:A
0.03197104 Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest4
0.03238529 Iberian_Peninsula:SouthEast3
0.03438062 Iberian_Peninsula:CenterEast4

alejandromb92
01-26-2021, 07:08 AM
Target: Alejandro_scaled
Distance: 2.3545% / 0.02354452 | ADC: 0.25x RC
63.4 Iberian_Peninsula
33.0 Balkan
2.4 Berber
1.2 Turkish

Luso
01-26-2021, 09:31 AM
Y si le cambio Bell_Beaker_Bavaria por un Che_IA y le añado un sample Ibérico antiguo:


Basque_Spanish,0.1319083,0.1504111,0.0582862,0.009 0081,0.0575834,0.0001239,-0.0033162,0.0004102,0.0313603,0.0455997,-0.0045288,0.0116063,-0.0227781,-0.0187627,0.0179452,0.0037271,-0.0058094,0.0027731,-0.0018156,-6.96e-05,0.0087901,0.0024868,-0.0068883,-0.0090371,0.0022619
MAR_Taforalt,-0.189857,0.0814452,-0.0242866,-0.085595,0.027636,-0.0552202,-0.0705968,0.0184146,0.155397,0.003499,0.0209156,-0.0318316,0.0747168,-0.0513334,0.0711988,-0.0363032,0.0052676,-0.066106,-0.1424162,0.0389938,-0.0376836,-0.1255322,0.0730118,-0.0137606,0.0164534
ITA_Rome_Imperial,0.1039821,0.1495156,-0.0235307,-0.0574065,0.0045265,-0.0204055,-0.0011946,-0.0051488,0.0006604,0.0196549,0.0034575,0.0025539,-0.0040602,-0.0014737,-0.0081715,-0.0014474,0.0035992,0.000454,0.0012178,-0.0032854,-0.0025579,0.0020454,-0.0006985,-0.0004845,0.0004141
Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES,0.118376,0.1457285,0.0446885,0.013566,0.044 6235,-0.000139,0.0005875,0.007615,0.024441,0.0266065,-0.0080385,0.008917,-0.0064665,-0.006675,0.012079,0.002055,-0.008279,0.004371,-0.000754,0.0027515,-0.0004995,-0.0009275,-0.0056695,0.00241,-0.0022755
CHE_IA,0.125205,0.153345,0.050534,-0.003876,0.049548,-0.005578,0.0047,-0.002077,0.014726,0.033896,0.001786,0.016335,-0.016353,-0.008945,0.001764,-0.001591,0.009518,0.001647,0.002514,-0.006128,0.005241,0.005688,-0.012078,-0.004338,0.000958


Me mejoran bastante las distancias:

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 1.3033% / 0.01303329
46.6 Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES
32.6 Basque_Spanish
13.0 CHE_IA
6.6 ITA_Rome_Imperial
1.2 MAR_Taforalt

Y solo con estos tres:


MAR_Taforalt,-0.189857,0.0814452,-0.0242866,-0.085595,0.027636,-0.0552202,-0.0705968,0.0184146,0.155397,0.003499,0.0209156,-0.0318316,0.0747168,-0.0513334,0.0711988,-0.0363032,0.0052676,-0.066106,-0.1424162,0.0389938,-0.0376836,-0.1255322,0.0730118,-0.0137606,0.0164534
Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES,0.118376,0.1457285,0.0446885,0.013566,0.044 6235,-0.000139,0.0005875,0.007615,0.024441,0.0266065,-0.0080385,0.008917,-0.0064665,-0.006675,0.012079,0.002055,-0.008279,0.004371,-0.000754,0.0027515,-0.0004995,-0.0009275,-0.0056695,0.00241,-0.0022755
CHE_IA,0.125205,0.153345,0.050534,-0.003876,0.049548,-0.005578,0.0047,-0.002077,0.014726,0.033896,0.001786,0.016335,-0.016353,-0.008945,0.001764,-0.001591,0.009518,0.001647,0.002514,-0.006128,0.005241,0.005688,-0.012078,-0.004338,0.000958


Sigo teniendo unas distancias aceptables:

arget: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 1.6105% / 0.01610547
62.2 Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES
36.4 CHE_IA
1.4 MAR_Taforalt

Pero no era eso lo que buscaba.

Edit:me refiero a distancias, aunque puede servir también de alguna forma a mi primera intención, ahora que lo veo.:)

Target: Luso_scaled
Distance: 2.8872% / 0.02887195
47.2 Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES
24.8 CHE_IA
12.2 Basque_Spanish
9.6 ITA_Rome_Imperial
6.2 MAR_Taforalt

y solo con los tres...

Target: Luso_scaled
Distance: 2.9945% / 0.02994527
50.6 Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES
42.4 CHE_IA
7.0 MAR_Taforalt

Pedro Ruben
01-26-2021, 02:03 PM
Solo con los tres

Target: Pedro_scaled
Distance: 3.0598% / 0.03059805
61.6 Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES
30.5 CHE_IA
7.9 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Dad_scaled
Distance: 2.8291% / 0.02829111
58.2 Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES
32.0 CHE_IA
9.8 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Mom_scaled
Distance: 2.5885% / 0.02588469
64.9 Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES
29.6 CHE_IA
5.5 MAR_Taforalt

mokordo
01-26-2021, 03:37 PM
Target: Pedro_scaled
[t


Target: Luso_scaled


We tried to make a proxy for NW_Iberia_IA (with Ruderico´s indications and guide) , you could try it instead of the reference East_Iberia_IA.(Don´t know if it will work well).

Those were the different options I´ve made.

NWIberia_IA_scaled:proxyD,0.1274817,0.1394662,0.06 86987,0.0266475,0.0514453,0.0038117,0.0001958,0.00 24233,0.0210317,0.0249663,-0.008742,-0.0005495,-0.0119425,-0.0024312,0.0099528,-0.0008615,-0.0067583,0.0014782,0.0031843,0.0051277,0.0034525, 0.0021022,-0.0027732,-0.0075508,-0.0043508
NWIberia_IA_scaled:proxyC,0.1248257,0.1458977,0.06 44873,0.0163653,0.0532407,0.0041837,-0.00188,0.0037693,0.0243383,0.031466,-0.0055753,0.005945,-0.0168483,-0.0067433,0.0120337,-0.0031377,-0.011604,0.001858,0.0018853,0.000042,0.0087763,0.0 03586,-0.0062033,-0.0098403,-0.005828
NWIberia_IA_scaled:proxyB,0.1269125,0.140397,0.067 7873,0.0228523,0.0530868,0.0036955,-0.000705,0.0029425,0.022293,0.027472,-0.0071045,0.0017985,-0.0131938,-0.0039565,0.010145,-0.0006295,-0.0071385,0.0013303,0.0023568,0.0036583,0.0046483, 0.002164,-0.0038515,-0.0086153,-0.00479
NWIberia_IA_scaled:proxyA,0.124636,0.1472518,0.064 2045,0.0188148,0.0508555,0.004602,-0.0011163,0.003404,0.023469,0.0297045,-0.007267,0.0044963,-0.0167988,-0.0058488,0.0126898,-0.0047398,-0.0132665,0.0023438,0.002891,0.000438,0.0090468,0. 0042043,-0.0057618,-0.0088563,-0.0056883

Suposedly, A and C are the best ones.

rober_tce
01-26-2021, 03:50 PM
Target: Rober_scaled
Distance: 1.2632% / 0.01263231
59.2 Iberian_Peninsula:North2
19.6 Iberian_Peninsula:North_Iberia
8.2 Iberian_Peninsula:A
6.2 Irish:Irish+Ireland
2.0 Berber:n7
1.8 Arabian
1.8 Palestinian/Jewish
1.2 Central_African:Sudanese+Dinka

Pedro Ruben
01-26-2021, 03:58 PM
Con tres

Target: Pedro_scaled
Distance: 3.0330% / 0.03033016
52.7 NWIberia_IA_scaled
37.5 CHE_IA
9.8 MAR_Taforalt

Con cinco

Target: Pedro_scaled
Distance: 2.1565% / 0.02156519
70.9 NWIberia_IA_scaled
21.4 ITA_Rome_Imperial
7.7 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Dad_scaled
Distance: 2.1557% / 0.02155702
72.1 NWIberia_IA_scaled
18.1 ITA_Rome_Imperial
9.8 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Mom_scaled
Distance: 2.5885% / 0.02588509
58.3 NWIberia_IA_scaled
14.2 ITA_Rome_Imperial
12.4 CHE_IA
9.0 Basque_Spanish
6.1 MAR_Taforalt

Pedro Ruben
01-26-2021, 04:04 PM
Ultimate Iberian Calculator.(For everybody but focused in Iberian ancestry)

Recommended 0.25X

Un pequeño poupourri de referencias usadas de varios modelos y calculadores, he estado a punto de mezclar TODAS las referencias que tengo, pero podrían explotar vuestros PCs:nod:


Iberian_Peninsula:SouthWest1,0.0947128,0.1458888,0 .0329882,-0.0081685,0.0415461,-0.0060402,-0.0042116,0.0017368,0.0281598,0.0301074,-0.0013248,0.0062668,-0.010191,-0.0125129,0.0106327,-0.0023483,-0.0044572,-0.0022938,-0.0075518,-0.0005726,0.0017666,-0.0038658,-0.0001654,-0.0043759,0.0017931
Iberian_Peninsula:SouthWest2,0.1066143,0.1480178,0 .0343842,-0.0023092,0.0430928,-0.0043227,-0.0029623,0.0008298,0.0246971,0.0311927,-0.0017266,0.0061589,-0.011906,-0.0118282,0.0088992,0.0000546,-0.0042616,-0.0021971,-0.0053356,-0.0008578,0.0025252,-0.0030208,-0.0017253,-0.0040524,0.0016609
Iberian_Peninsula:SouthWest3,0.1103136,0.1489866,0 .0367065,-0.0022072,0.0415074,-0.0037999,-0.0028494,0.0003653,0.024662,0.0325823,-0.0017051,0.0068687,-0.0129399,-0.012317,0.008918,0.0007736,-0.0041886,-0.001742,-0.0032682,-0.0001355,0.0037902,-0.0016282,-0.0012632,-0.0033287,0.0001798
Iberian_Peninsula:SouthWest4,0.107153,0.1453437,0. 0358575,-0.0039328,0.0436962,-0.0049531,-0.0028354,0.0027098,0.0251567,0.0304517,-0.0014439,0.0073469,-0.0129723,-0.0113357,0.0114001,-0.0014481,-0.0036539,-0.0009936,-0.0050112,-0.0011889,0.0020335,-0.0019368,-0.0003352,-0.003233,0.0008896
Iberian_Peninsula:SouthWest5,0.0937339,0.1451566,0 .0331382,-0.0086673,0.039987,-0.0051366,-0.0051174,0.0017868,0.0286013,0.0293967,-0.0006149,0.0063413,-0.0099561,-0.0124403,0.0117895,-0.001298,-0.0019349,-0.0021871,-0.0083026,0.0003711,0.000871,-0.004501,0.0014714,-0.0022755,0.0007982
Iberian_Peninsula:CenterWest1,0.1069632,0.1442391, 0.0382424,-0.0032925,0.0429699,-0.0010951,-0.0027323,0.0036874,0.0270135,0.0294797,-0.0015309,0.0076322,-0.0124142,-0.0116411,0.0124084,-0.0034694,-0.0039557,-0.0013091,-0.0051435,-0.001269,0.0007145,-0.0017394,0.0013081,-0.0018515,-0.0014297
Iberian_Peninsula:Center1,0.1116414,0.1459401,0.04 04147,-0.0026917,0.0429436,-0.0014759,-0.0017136,0.0031729,0.0265369,0.0315799,-0.0022193,0.0082675,-0.013683,-0.0122025,0.0112705,-0.0038008,-0.006405,-0.0009607,-0.0023254,-0.0014904,0.002875,0.0002885,0.0001335,-0.0032282,-0.0019159
Iberian_Peninsula:Center2,0.1147717,0.1480979,0.04 36202,-0.0052757,0.0488294,-0.0043694,-0.0018017,0.0034615,0.0280199,0.0340172,-0.0038434,0.006769,-0.014519,-0.013441,0.009455,0.003558,0.0018907,-0.0020692,-0.0025765,-0.0008964,0.006634,0.0007212,-0.0004517,-0.0059847,-0.000958
Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest1,0.1074692,0.1455367,0 .0385359,-0.0030413,0.0416707,-0.0020712,-0.0045992,0.0025915,0.0251558,0.0298848,-0.0014316,0.006579,-0.0126743,-0.0117099,0.0118505,0.0000958,-0.0026846,-0.0015238,-0.0054019,-0.0006264,0.0010057,-0.0027355,0.0002468,-0.0024072,0.0005993
Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest2,0.1082583,0.1451643,0 .0407708,-0.0019021,0.0425035,0.0008832,-0.0035903,0.0035191,0.026571,0.0296234,-0.0022284,0.0067898,-0.0123512,-0.0120879,0.0117021,-0.0029759,-0.0055086,-0.001946,-0.0047834,-0.0016502,0.0005822,-0.0019029,0.0002534,-0.0031261,-0.0007251
Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest3,0.1095862,0.1453335,0 .0433481,-0.0005025,0.0464532,-0.003672,-0.0063711,0.0046731,0.0253442,0.0306868,-0.0026886,0.0069148,-0.0158202,-0.0106199,0.0127651,-0.0064014,-0.0100723,-0.0004469,-0.0052234,-0.0009413,0.0038682,-0.004479,-0.001205,-0.0011784,0.0038849
Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest4,0.114961,0.1458975,0. 0450032,0.0032839,0.04924,-0.0066004,-0.0039167,0.004423,0.0247817,0.0330457,-0.0044387,0.0083677,-0.0188305,-0.0129824,0.0117395,-0.0058785,-0.0097137,0.0012669,-0.0054049,-0.0028345,0.004825,-0.0026585,-0.0037794,-0.0002212,0.0035722
Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest5,0.1090802,0.1440359,0 .0430547,-0.0007537,0.0477524,-0.0026959,-0.0045042,0.005769,0.0272019,0.0302817,-0.0027879,0.007968,-0.01556,-0.010551,0.013323,-0.0099665,-0.0113434,-0.0002322,-0.004965,-0.0015839,0.003577,-0.0034829,-0.0001437,-0.0006227,0.001856
Iberian_Peninsula:A,0.1072213,0.1440698,0.0360527,-0.0049311,0.0435568,-0.0050758,-0.0039167,0.0030151,0.0254836,0.0298017,-0.0009959,0.0085925,-0.0144102,-0.0117989,0.0143593,-0.0000442,0.0006173,-0.0007265,-0.0059916,0.0015091,0.0014307,-0.0018877,0.0016269,-0.0005382,-0.0003272
Iberian_Peninsula:E,0.1046033,0.1454238,0.0359396,-0.0036822,0.0400073,-0.0025099,-0.0034780,0.0023767,0.0257700,0.0296499,-0.0003411,0.0056649,-0.0102279,-0.0104594,0.0098531,-0.0009281,-0.0037550,-0.0011275,-0.0054177,-0.0028765,0.0006987,-0.0035983,0.0008134,-0.0020243,0.0002275
Iberian_Peninsula:NorthEast1,0.1170481,0.1463632,0 .0436362,0.0010229,0.0470216,-0.0000698,-0.0012827,0.0026632,0.0236311,0.0336987,-0.0020233,0.0094479,-0.0168298,-0.0117381,0.0108126,-0.0005968,-0.0027056,-0.0012194,-0.0016811,0.0000209,0.0048299,-0.0028181,-0.0025368,-0.0014913,0.0003591
Iberian_Peninsula:NorthEast3,0.1136333,0.1451784,0 .0409332,-0.0012382,0.0453288,0.0008599,-0.001126,0.0037785,0.0266648,0.0330607,-0.0022398,0.0090733,-0.0148723,-0.0124263,0.0125089,-0.0046628,-0.0057695,-0.0012616,-0.0033781,-0.0006461,0.0018768,-0.000407,0.000072,-0.0018124,-0.0014968
Iberian_Peninsula:CenterEast1,0.1170479,0.1457708, 0.0407289,-0.0018438,0.043598,-0.0018361,-0.0012729,0.002048,0.0211939,0.0312687,-0.0037756,0.0081366,-0.0139372,-0.0124777,0.0067691,0.0007015,-0.0013473,-0.0003326,-0.0000524,-0.0026471,0.0030573,-0.0003763,-0.0004056,-0.0024097,-0.0010277
Iberian_Peninsula:CenterEast2,0.1153407,0.1465748, 0.0432432,-0.0002153,0.043957,-0.0011157,-0.0012925,0.0024228,0.0207933,0.0298868,-0.0032209,0.0082677,-0.0155105,-0.011629,0.0064017,0.0019224,0.0006737,-0.0002957,0.0000002,-0.0026679,0.0033692,-0.0025555,-0.001335,-0.0008032,-0.0015767
Iberian_Peninsula:CenterEast3,0.1162893,0.1454323, 0.0433691,0.0007403,0.0468293,-0.0007204,-0.0020171,0.0020095,0.0227619,0.0318762,-0.0024495,0.0084612,-0.0144327,-0.0114914,0.0092348,0.0003702,-0.0026729,-0.001684,-0.0011835,-0.0009379,0.0058854,-0.0035498,-0.0029733,-0.0035346,0.0015067
Iberian_Peninsula:CenterEast4,0.1175224,0.1472518, 0.0408705,-0.0017765,0.0444697,-0.0024753,-0.0011163,0.0023364,0.0247729,0.0354223,-0.0021313,0.0094978,-0.0164643,-0.0126098,0.0115194,-0.0019225,-0.0053947,-0.0004909,-0.0011785,0.0001563,0.0044608,0.0007883,-0.0011093,-0.0024703,-0.0006587
Iberian_Peninsula:CenterSouth,0.1118312,0.1470447, 0.0380297,-0.003332,0.0436699,-0.0053339,-0.0018167,0.0021953,0.0246801,0.032552,-0.0021323,0.0079822,-0.0142411,-0.0118972,0.0102622,-0.0017795,-0.0061032,-0.0006451,-0.0021931,-0.0014103,0.0041941,0.0000911,-0.0015098,-0.0046097,0.0004033
Iberian_Peninsula:SouthEast2,0.1087009,0.144506,0. 036804,-0.004624,0.0453626,-0.0039743,-0.0034617,-0.0003431,0.024987,0.0316862,-0.0027819,0.005341,-0.0127916,-0.0111059,0.0074797,-0.001962,-0.0025829,-0.0001224,-0.0021616,-0.000566,0.0039757,-0.0021192,-0.001325,-0.0041728,0.0019301
Iberian_Peninsula:SouthEast3,0.1136333,0.1437822,0 .0393777,-0.0033511,0.04597,-0.0017663,-0.0034957,-0.0008557,0.0242106,0.0327341,-0.0032071,0.0058698,-0.0126177,-0.0115718,0.0071591,-0.0011381,-0.0018417,-0.0004327,-0.0006494,0.0000417,0.0052979,-0.0021537,-0.0013609,-0.0040767,0.0020158
Iberian_Peninsula:SouthEast4,0.1124003,0.1454748,0 .0391263,-0.004522,0.0437772,-0.0034514,-0.0033488,-0.0008076,0.0249519,0.0330758,-0.0027604,0.0060508,-0.0138255,-0.0115948,0.0074985,-0.001243,-0.0025099,0.0003328,-0.0000943,0.0001563,0.0052406,-0.0007266,-0.0008629,-0.0034491,0.000449
Iberian_Peninsula:North1,0.1206526,0.1494095,0.044 076,-0.0043605,0.0503554,-0.0053688,-0.0012044,0.002625,0.0262559,0.0378595,-0.0037554,0.0079993,-0.0173003,-0.0138483,0.0097039,0.0054363,0.0029009,-0.0015994,-0.0014296,0.0007503,0.0082198,0.0012209,-0.0016944,-0.0052268,0.0002993
Iberian_Peninsula:North2,0.1206527,0.1492827,0.045 506,-0.0045759,0.0512915,-0.0059032,-0.0025459,0.0004234,0.0262815,0.0387555,-0.0051694,0.0085924,-0.0161049,-0.0159414,0.0111517,0.0082429,0.0009127,-0.0006547,-0.00155,-0.0010214,0.0088177,0.0024522,-0.0045804,-0.0046794,0.0027942
Iberian_Peninsula:North3,0.125016,0.1519907,0.0515 397,-0.0001615,0.052984,-0.0040904,-0.0008225,0.0026155,0.0276789,0.0393325,-0.0056297,0.0075184,-0.0190035,-0.013464,0.0125314,0.005591,-0.0008912,0.0002322,0.0007964,-0.0030434,0.0103567,-0.0000415,-0.004375,-0.0080735,0.002255
Iberian_Peninsula:North4,0.1238777,0.1489443,0.050 2827,0.0036607,0.0504195,0.0006045,-0.0014884,0.0007309,0.0263494,0.039272,-0.00544,0.0104157,-0.0181614,-0.0145424,0.017033,0.0001769,-0.0105395,0.0019845,-0.0001257,-0.0045647,0.0061973,0.0000617,-0.0067374,-0.0033539,0.0042112
Iberian_Peninsula:North5,0.1179967,0.1477595,0.048 3968,0.0029609,0.0479574,0.0021383,-0.0007442,0.003769,0.0280877,0.0345337,-0.004114,0.0085924,-0.0165755,-0.012042,0.0153364,-0.004508,-0.0095615,0.00057,-0.0011522,-0.0044397,0.0040137,-0.0016694,-0.0026087,-0.0046592,0.000459
Iberian_Peninsula:North6,0.1238775,0.1496212,0.050 3453,0.0069984,0.049445,-0.0017662,-0.0001567,0.002423,0.0256675,0.0372977,-0.0057648,0.008992,-0.019846,-0.0144734,0.0137529,-0.00042,-0.0079318,0.002069,-0.001592,-0.0056904,0.0052617,-0.000845,-0.0062444,-0.0042577,0.0021752
Iberian_Peninsula:North7,0.1136332,0.1457284,0.042 4258,0.0018842,0.0452904,-0.0020452,-0.0011358,0.003269,0.0260085,0.0319823,-0.0039785,0.0082427,-0.0153615,-0.0144504,0.0106765,-0.002453,-0.00515,-0.0002323,-0.0049649,-0.0035434,0.001539,-0.0000824,-0.002321,-0.0021688,-0.0010379
Iberian_Peninsula:Center,0.11164140,0.14594010,0.0 4041465,-0.00269165,0.04294360,-0.00147585,-0.00171355,0.00317290,0.02653685,0.03157990,-0.00221925,0.00826750,-0.01368300,-0.01220250,0.01127050,-0.00380075,-0.00640495,-0.00096065,-0.00232535,-0.00149035,0.00287500,0.00028850,0.00013350,-0.00322815,-0.00191590
Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest_Iberia,0.10746950,0.14 553650,0.03853550,-0.00304150,0.04167050,-0.00207100,-0.00459900,0.00259150,0.02515550,0.02988500,-0.00143150,0.00657900,-0.01267400,-0.01171000,0.01185050,0.00009550,-0.00268450,-0.00152400,-0.00540200,-0.00062600,0.00100550,-0.00273550,0.00024650,-0.00240750,0.00059950
Iberian_Peninsula:North_Iberia,0.12242300,0.148492 67,0.04831367,0.00441433,0.04920567,-0.00158033,-0.00117500,0.00112833,0.02542900,0.03776333,-0.00550333,0.00982467,-0.01831833,-0.01532200,0.01438633,0.00066300,-0.00819967,0.00174567,-0.00188533,-0.00464133,0.00506033,0.00028867,-0.00647733,-0.00282500,0.00303367
Iberian_PeninsulaIberian:NorthEast_Iberia,0.116289 50,0.14543250,0.04336900,0.00072050,0.04682900,-0.00072050,-0.00201750,0.00200900,0.02276150,0.03187600,-0.00244950,0.00846100,-0.01443250,-0.01149150,0.00923450,0.00037000,-0.00267300,-0.00168400,-0.00118350,-0.00093800,0.00588550,-0.00354950,-0.00297350,-0.00353450,0.00150700
Iberian_PeninsulaIberian:SouthWest_Iberia,0.106467 33,0.14688233,0.03492500,-0.00301667,0.04277467,-0.00423167,-0.00322200,0.00147333,0.02499733,0.03070867,-0.00139567,0.00657967,-0.01218267,-0.01163967,0.01011833,-0.00009600,-0.00321833,-0.00176033,-0.00547800,-0.00065367,0.00206267,-0.00287133,-0.00071667,-0.00307933,0.00107233
Iberian_Peninsula:SouthEast_Iberia,0.11097733,0.14 567500,0.03798667,-0.00415933,0.04427033,-0.00425333,-0.00287600,0.00034833,0.02487300,0.03243767,-0.00255833,0.00645767,-0.01361933,-0.01153233,0.00841333,-0.00166133,-0.00373200,-0.00014500,-0.00148333,-0.00060700,0.00447000,-0.00091833,-0.00123267,-0.00407733,0.00092767
Iberian_Peninsula:North_BC,0.1320348,0.1515168,0.0 558892,0.0105298,0.0564412,0.0001114,-0.000611,0.001892,0.0296968,0.0435908,-0.0098732,0.0095016,-0.0205746,-0.0157716,0.0164766,0.0029964,-0.0075364,0.0035476,-0.002363,-0.0047022,0.0114298,0.0021268,-0.008997,-0.0093022,0.0010298
Berber:n7,-0.05386443,0.13448546,-0.00934256,-0.07596989,0.02513761,-0.03430853,-0.02823581,0.0071875,0.06447191,0.02839774,0.00649 851,-0.00760977,0.0223002,-0.01514833,0.01552203,-0.01224471,-0.00229253,-0.0202083,-0.04156531,0.00950406,-0.01390176,-0.03600231,0.02360911,-0.00271777,0.00473974
Arabian,0.05059585,0.13995270,-0.06513990,-0.11723870,-0.00940130,-0.04997380,-0.01229238,-0.00808298,0.05608075,-0.00410653,0.01556333,-0.03192903,0.06243548,0.00350273,0.00455410,0.0252 5745,-0.02140830,0.00386218,0.00015448,0.02687405,0.0126 3658,0.01614353,-0.00905183,0.00697205,-0.00832413
Baltic:Lithuanian+Estonian+Latvian,0.13452148,0.12 062239,0.08690013,0.08467086,0.04324176,0.03159824 ,0.0115997,0.01480449,-0.00163362,-0.03234143,-0.00249161,-0.01265707,0.02141043,0.02735196,-0.00952909,0.00204703,0.00200312,-0.00109701,0.00194781,0.00313233,-0.00184769,-0.00433336,0.00725102,-0.00543653,0.00193011
Irish:Irish+Ireland,0.1333156,0.133302,0.0612522,0 .0494899,0.03722405,0.01981505,0.003592715,0.00465 054,0.004015315,0.003132795,-0.006798435,0.006078655,-0.01399805,-0.0142284,0.02653675,0.005617805,-0.01122035,0.001576174,0.000440942,0.002223565,0.0 05053135,0.00133376,0.00095749,0.0140395,0.0002452 81
English:English+English_Cornwall,0.13102565,0.1383 9775,0.06157145,0.04359780,0.04056560,0.01657980,0 .00420955,0.00606750,0.00587280,0.00632250,-0.00470165,0.00604745,-0.01316735,-0.01029915,0.02068505,0.00336205,-0.01144795,0.00310430,0.00372315,0.00310190,0.0053 7285,0.00363740,-0.00201385,0.01408045,0.00036125
French:Cluster(A+B+C+D),0.1277379,0.1443788,0.0516 499,0.0220623,0.0441839,0.0081762,0.001742,0.00388 36,0.0173982,0.022762,-0.0051918,0.0069986,-0.0153028,-0.0111361,0.0157499,-0.0007448,-0.0078411,0.0025871,0.0010925,-0.0002574,0.0037564,0.002014,-0.0019068,0.0046416,0.0009724
Chinese,0.02574093,-0.44672400,0.00416373,-0.06463350,0.05351190,0.02476773,0.00551737,0.0020 7600,-0.01316077,0.00126697,-0.07530797,-0.01189107,0.01126457,-0.00655843,-0.00550930,0.00257083,0.00261210,0.00151403,0.0006 5540,-0.00996537,0.01280200,0.00725607,0.01069883,-0.00123393,-0.00250313
German:B,0.12850750,0.13434200,0.05953750,0.042428 00,0.04023600,0.01613500,0.00530550,0.00693350,0.0 0355100,0.00110350,-0.00542900,0.00348000,-0.00703950,-0.00569200,0.01297850,0.00431800,-0.00574350,0.00146500,0.00381850,0.00226650,0.0039 1550,0.00243600,0.00017000,0.01182950,-0.00010750
Greek,0.11140840,0.14591180,-0.00812253,-0.04104343,0.00871315,-0.01319430,0.00090083,-0.00172838,-0.00075845,0.01704973,0.00310060,0.00279748,-0.00398438,0.00354085,-0.00934730,-0.00112803,0.00415830,0.00021075,0.00356465,-0.00389083,-0.00505928,0.00134385,0.00106483,0.00079573,-0.00272183
India,0.05425723,-0.05224190,-0.14531813,0.10516810,-0.07525927,0.06000990,0.00056697,0.01146813,0.0299 5450,0.01783713,-0.00570163,-0.00016823,-0.00002613,0.00110113,0.00060693,-0.00117137,-0.00384817,0.00066970,0.00074737,-0.00379923,0.00015303,-0.00049060,0.00129760,0.00150510,-0.00206300
Italian:Center,0.11701408,0.14925148,0.00917310,-0.02814708,0.02221933,-0.01003865,0.00044550,-0.00159775,0.00642820,0.02364700,0.00002603,0.0045 2040,-0.00955638,-0.00467495,-0.00375115,0.00052440,0.00259400,0.00045623,0.0023 5623,-0.00327855,-0.00208228,0.00226180,-0.00011475,0.00257140,-0.00120693
Italian:South_Italian:Mainland,0.10765055,0.147301 15,-0.00740228,-0.04272373,0.01384175,-0.01458015,-0.00069750,-0.00217618,0.00395688,0.02090800,0.00024765,0.0030 1008,-0.00603383,-0.00056470,-0.00836273,-0.00287953,0.00428768,0.00024715,0.00346385,-0.00433768,-0.00310053,0.00091510,0.00123820,0.00246810,0.0000 4713
Italian:South_Italian:Sicilian,0.10168200,0.146067 00,-0.00383415,-0.03832935,0.01861865,-0.01259680,-0.00129250,0.00030765,0.01046465,0.02180770,0.0053 5865,0.00349700,-0.00418735,0.00250000,-0.00409415,-0.00483950,-0.00236850,-0.00059115,0.00180165,-0.00500250,0.00039535,0.00175180,-0.00254700,-0.00060250,0.00031915
Iran,0.08819270,0.10113475,-0.06562890,-0.02964950,-0.04627995,-0.00295545,0.00468410,-0.00464850,-0.02821040,-0.01373640,0.00216160,-0.00098600,0.00418345,-0.00166035,0.00498295,0.01070660,-0.00466300,0.00281875,0.00398130,-0.00991535,-0.00093175,-0.00418420,-0.00039000,-0.00518885,0.00490625
MiddleEast,0.05685165,0.12859275,-0.04813445,-0.06769060,-0.01581660,-0.02342100,-0.00406920,-0.00286015,0.00661045,-0.00050155,0.00442385,-0.00707060,0.01346310,-0.00017820,-0.00193140,0.00745640,-0.00185565,0.00011665,0.00003315,0.00229120,0.0015 7940,0.00151840,-0.00176365,0.00088215,-0.00121830
Turkish:Northwest+Turkish_South+Turkish_Southwest+ Turkish_Central,0.09640925,0.06378650,-0.02045625,-0.03320250,-0.02308875,-0.01185625,0.00550450,-0.00071725,-0.01859325,-0.00091900,-0.00156250,0.00106575,-0.00297950,0.00045875,-0.00413350,0.00206750,0.00507075,0.00100425,0.0012 1175,-0.00008175,-0.00320775,0.00049575,-0.00238325,0.00046100,0.00063825
Balkan:Macedonian_average,0.1234982,0.142851,0.027 0897,-0.0048988,0.0265692,-0.0016735,0.0021542,0.0006922,-0.0004092,0.007654,-0.0000272,-0.0004497,-0.000768,0.0067208,-0.0148163,0.0015688,0.0118215,0.0004647,0.007144,-0.0046895,-0.0078197,0.002102,0.0057927,-0.0000402,-0.0041313
Palestinian/Jewish,0.08970675,0.15220263,-0.04970895,-0.08630155,-0.00821318,-0.02909195,-0.00308430,-0.00400938,0.01374138,0.01814400,0.00735825,-0.00407470,0.00702445,0.00651988,-0.00855050,0.00501358,-0.00108388,0.00259705,0.00276545,0.00053945,-0.00321313,0.00803751,0.00093205,0.00186763,0.0012 6450
Scandinavian,0.13387755,0.12812600,0.07000080,0.05 487155,0.03977280,0.02123570,0.00562880,0.00779640 ,0.00531760,-0.00310225,-0.00426855,0.00259765,-0.00608450,-0.00776585,0.01803785,0.00670525,-0.00632675,0.00230450,0.00208300,0.00281375,0.0063 5490,0.00392150,0.00270265,0.01419580,0.00005980
Slav:A,0.13138390,0.12667805,0.06910955,0.05764665 ,0.03918105,0.02150315,0.00872160,0.01108490,-0.00191195,-0.01982615,-0.00299075,-0.00703905,0.01422465,0.02013115,-0.00912990,-0.00082800,0.00311790,-0.00038630,0.00264685,0.00149370,-0.00381375,-0.00329875,0.00617250,-0.00369530,0.00031705
SSA:A,-0.55687967,0.06753267,0.00828100,-0.00197833,-0.00047466,-0.00003500,-0.01680300,0.02377800,0.01856900,-0.02692533,-0.00502067,0.00591333,-0.01327400,0.00153100,-0.00610700,0.00092800,0.00531300,-0.00194267,0.00208467,-0.00411667,0.00054600,-0.00162833,-0.00365633,-0.00061267,0.00158167
SSA:B,-0.6242421,0.0639936,0.0215130,0.0145326,0.0028094, 0.0117579,-0.0161961,0.0216721,-0.0308661,0.0149323,0.0037054,0.0018871,-0.0006642,0.0019913,-0.0064682,0.0041677,-0.0048993,0.0149827,-0.0066659,0.0019943,0.0010692,0.0020188,0.0011803, 0.0001642,0.0012754
Turkic,0.08279575,-0.04872655,-0.00773435,-0.00521585,-0.04090210,-0.00345510,0.00827315,0.00604885,-0.01586195,-0.01025075,-0.00767745,-0.00170265,0.00110940,-0.00557500,0.00308635,0.00607450,-0.00259560,0.00098765,-0.00011860,-0.00280345,-0.00721875,-0.00283710,-0.00430805,-0.00055895,0.00290500
Turkish,0.09640925,0.06378650,-0.02045625,-0.03320250,-0.02308875,-0.01185625,0.00550450,-0.00071725,-0.01859325,-0.00091900,-0.00156250,0.00106575,-0.00297950,0.00045875,-0.00413350,0.00206750,0.00507075,0.00100425,0.0012 1175,-0.00008175,-0.00320775,0.00049575,-0.00238325,0.00046100,0.00063825
Yemenite,0.05174190,0.13874660,-0.06566620,-0.11837600,-0.00721070,-0.05182340,-0.01121515,-0.00798695,0.06050780,-0.00232075,0.01483365,-0.03200295,0.06152495,0.00486465,0.00592640,0.0233 3400,-0.02076730,0.00343125,0.00063025,0.02348350,0.0122 1305,0.01540175,-0.01090055,0.00567000,-0.00689545
Balkan:Albania+Macedonian_average,0.1208423,0.1423 011,0.021323,-0.0103898,0.0258639,-0.0045437,0.0027613,0.00125,0.0001278,0.011891,0.0 005413,0.0005495,-0.0039333,0.0066634,-0.0170557,-0.0012928,0.0099744,0.000982,0.0077201,-0.0053149,-0.0066913,0.0014116,0.0041083,0.0010795,-0.0033281
Central_African:Sudanese+Dinka,-0.5775005,0.0526722,0.0013323,-0.006242,-0.0040058,-0.0018036,-0.0139344,0.0170878,0.0772641,-0.0934263,-0.019959,0.0223263,-0.0376471,-0.0007547,0.0088819,-0.0184831,0.0183071,-0.0104032,0.0218107,-0.0212966,0.0008642,0.0039951,-0.0009284,-0.0012872,0.0066699
CentralAsian:Turkmen4,0.08279575,-0.04872655,-0.00773435,-0.00521585,-0.04090210,-0.00345510,0.00827315,0.00604885,-0.01586195,-0.01025075,-0.00767745,-0.00170265,0.00110940,-0.00557500,0.00308635,0.00607450,-0.00259560,0.00098765,-0.00011860,-0.00280345,-0.00721875,-0.00283710,-0.00430805,-0.00055895,0.00290500
CentralAsian:Kazakh3,0.0665865,-0.2208775,0.0475175,-0.0082365,-0.0329290,-0.0149205,0.0126910,0.0124610,-0.0087945,0.0023695,-0.0215165,-0.0026975,-0.0034190,-0.0008945,0.0006105,0.0034475,0.0044330,0.0001900,-0.0029540,0.0066905,-0.0124160,-0.0060590,-0.0080110,0.0012655,-0.0011380
CentralAsian:Uzbek2,0.0745540,-0.1066305,-0.0079195,0.0113050,-0.0363145,0.0034860,0.0052875,0.0014995,-0.0152370,-0.0084740,-0.0168070,-0.0059195,0.0058720,-0.0058490,0.0039355,0.0049060,-0.0074970,0.0022805,0.0006285,-0.0045645,-0.0089220,-0.0027205,-0.0036970,-0.0023495,0.0019760
CentralAsian:Tajik1,0.0882130,0.0187875,-0.0337525,0.0179265,-0.0415460,0.0145025,0.0068155,0.0003465,-0.0285310,-0.0217770,-0.0071450,0.0035220,-0.0055005,-0.0106655,0.0108575,0.0083535,-0.0011085,-0.0011405,0.0002515,-0.0090665,-0.0084225,-0.0001855,0.0022185,0.0007835,0.0030535
Chinese_and_Vietnamese:Guizhou+Hunan,0.0175621,-0.4495462,-0.0283127,-0.06706,0.1094813,0.0507666,-0.0002504,-0.0077922,-0.0172462,-0.0093943,-0.018801,-0.0049517,0.0043134,-0.006977,-0.0028555,0.0013078,0.0025359,-0.0008778,-0.0025027,-0.0120425,0.014891,0.0071037,0.0163572,-0.0010603,0.0012949
Chinese_and_Vietnamese:Han_Shandong+Han_Shanghai+H an_Henan,0.02574093,-0.44672400,0.00416373,-0.06463350,0.05351190,0.02476773,0.00551737,0.0020 7600,-0.01316077,0.00126697,-0.07530797,-0.01189107,0.01126457,-0.00655843,-0.00550930,0.00257083,0.00261210,0.00151403,0.0006 5540,-0.00996537,0.01280200,0.00725607,0.01069883,-0.00123393,-0.00250313
Slav:Russian+Belarusian,0.13119282,0.11441266,0.07 595197,0.0684007,0.03622404,0.02491509,0.010711,0. 01310470,-0.00143407,-0.02581,-0.00098054,-0.00889098,0.01865119,0.02380024,-0.01107937,-0.00297275,0.00002045,-0.00025557,0.00211417,0.00006978,-0.00253295,-0.00431923,0.00640435,-0.00531757,-0.0001691
Slav:Polish+Ukrainian,0.13138390,0.12667805,0.0691 0955,0.05764665,0.03918105,0.02150315,0.00872160,0 .01108490,-0.00191195,-0.01982615,-0.00299075,-0.00703905,0.01422465,0.02013115,-0.00912990,-0.00082800,0.00311790,-0.00038630,0.00264685,0.00149370,-0.00381375,-0.00329875,0.00617250,-0.00369530,0.00031705
Slav:Russia+Ukrania,0.1310153,0.1214563,0.0711987, 0.0603063,0.0356400,0.0220150,0.0089957,0.0116723,-0.0034180,-0.0234717,-0.0007067,-0.0075860,0.0157850,0.0231097,-0.0123050,-0.0018747,0.0027710,-0.0005210,0.0028207,0.0022073,-0.0037993,-0.0040860,0.0049800,-0.0048143,-0.0007887
Eskimo:Eskimo+EskimoChaplin+EskimoNaukan+EskimoSir eniki,0.0466149,-0.3688403,0.1187765,0.0399512,-0.1213249,-0.0441851,-0.0979141,-0.111901,0.0066266,-0.0124769,0.030207,-0.0045295,0.009208,-0.0185154,-0.033596,-0.0153971,-0.0032999,0.0167186,0.0371127,0.0203858,0.02997,-0.0514784,0.0093826,0.0270206,0.040713
Indonesian:Bali+Java,0.0106221,-0.3986474,-0.0812927,-0.0322972,0.1412676,0.0622616,-0.0047389,-0.0120334,-0.010409,-0.0188626,0.0828474,0.0076368,-0.0088529,0.0050521,0.0059755,0.0022143,-0.001228,-0.0009977,0.0012898,0.0094298,-0.0133561,0.0012463,-0.0118502,0.0009681,0.0161695
Malay:Malay+Kadar,0.0108985,-0.2706131,-0.1287679,0.0524638,0.033837,0.0542722,-0.0043064,0.004344,0.0358173,0.0190254,0.0301963,0 .0031173,-0.0040176,0.0072631,-0.0073358,-0.0083531,0.0043775,-0.0002788,0.0001288,0.0126843,-0.0014381,0.0025844,-0.0071392,0.0014279,-0.0034789
Filipino:Luzon+Vizayan,0.0119515,-0.418398,-0.058831,-0.0434435,0.1317165,0.0489455,-0.005405,-0.0102685,-0.0150325,-0.0164015,0.0457935,0.0046455,-0.0032705,-0.0020645,0.010315,0.0057675,-0.006845,0.0050045,0.006788,-0.009567,0.000312,-0.0284405,-0.003143,-0.0042175,-0.050714
Finnish:Finnish+FinnishEast,0.128582,0.083663,0.09 2565,0.078958,0.029816,0.023622,0.008876,0.014773, 0.004196,-0.026607,0.004236,-0.007461,0.015216,0.005767,0.001455,-0.002047,-0.006585,0.000171,-0.000392,0.004094,0.007928,0.001223,0.002531,0.005 306,0.003258
Amerindian:Surui+Karitiana,0.0583155,-0.3187578,0.1177434,0.1075438,-0.113734,-0.0145071,-0.32444,-0.3870877,-0.0164609,-0.019059,0.0015129,-0.0036867,0.000342,0.0315914,-0.00903,0.0025016,0.0109589,0.0006777,0.0001781,0. 0004607,-0.0045377,0.011782,-0.0061622,-0.0049885,-0.0079674


Target: Pedro_scaled
Distance: 1.5474% / 0.01547414 | ADC: 0.25x RC
86.1 Iberian_Peninsula
6.7 MiddleEast
4.1 Finnish
1.4 Central_African
1.3 SSA
0.4 Amerindian

Target: Dad_scaled
Distance: 1.4560% / 0.01456011 | ADC: 0.25x RC
82.1 Iberian_Peninsula
8.9 Berber
6.5 Slav
2.1 SSA
0.4 Eskimo

Target: Mom_scaled
Distance: 1.4781% / 0.01478120 | ADC: 0.25x RC
88.4 Iberian_Peninsula
8.8 English
2.8 Central_African

Luso
01-26-2021, 04:46 PM
We tried to make a proxy for NW_Iberia_IA (with Ruderico´s indications and guide) , you could try it instead of the reference East_Iberia_IA.(Don´t know if it will work well).

Those were the different options I´ve made.

NWIberia_IA_scaled:proxyD,0.1274817,0.1394662,0.06 86987,0.0266475,0.0514453,0.0038117,0.0001958,0.00 24233,0.0210317,0.0249663,-0.008742,-0.0005495,-0.0119425,-0.0024312,0.0099528,-0.0008615,-0.0067583,0.0014782,0.0031843,0.0051277,0.0034525, 0.0021022,-0.0027732,-0.0075508,-0.0043508
NWIberia_IA_scaled:proxyC,0.1248257,0.1458977,0.06 44873,0.0163653,0.0532407,0.0041837,-0.00188,0.0037693,0.0243383,0.031466,-0.0055753,0.005945,-0.0168483,-0.0067433,0.0120337,-0.0031377,-0.011604,0.001858,0.0018853,0.000042,0.0087763,0.0 03586,-0.0062033,-0.0098403,-0.005828
NWIberia_IA_scaled:proxyB,0.1269125,0.140397,0.067 7873,0.0228523,0.0530868,0.0036955,-0.000705,0.0029425,0.022293,0.027472,-0.0071045,0.0017985,-0.0131938,-0.0039565,0.010145,-0.0006295,-0.0071385,0.0013303,0.0023568,0.0036583,0.0046483, 0.002164,-0.0038515,-0.0086153,-0.00479
NWIberia_IA_scaled:proxyA,0.124636,0.1472518,0.064 2045,0.0188148,0.0508555,0.004602,-0.0011163,0.003404,0.023469,0.0297045,-0.007267,0.0044963,-0.0167988,-0.0058488,0.0126898,-0.0047398,-0.0132665,0.0023438,0.002891,0.000438,0.0090468,0. 0042043,-0.0057618,-0.0088563,-0.0056883

Suposedly, A and C are the best ones.

obrigado :)

con tres:

Target: Luso_scaled
Distance: 2.7734% / 0.02773433
49.6 NWIberia_IA_scaled:proxyA
42.0 CHE_IA
8.4 MAR_Taforalt

con cinco:

Target: Luso_scaled
Distance: 2.0891% / 0.02089066
72.8 NWIberia_IA_scaled:proxyA
20.8 ITA_Rome_Imperial
6.4 MAR_Taforalt

Ruderico
01-26-2021, 05:38 PM
Personalmente evito usar la muestra de Suiza, tengo dudas que represente algo en Iberia prerromana porque parece demasiado oriental para aquí. Igual a los de Italia.

Alexander87
01-26-2021, 06:02 PM
Colombian mother

Target: Mom_scaled
Distance: 1.4587% / 0.01458661 | R5P
37.0 Iberian_Peninsula:North4
25.8 Iberian_Peninsula:NorthWest4
18.4 Amerindian:Surui+Karitiana
8.4 Palestinian/Jewish
7.4 Berber:n7
3.0 SSA:B

Target: Mom_scaled
Distance: 1.4587% / 0.01458661 | R5P
62.8 Iberian_Peninsula
18.4 Amerindian
8.4 Palestinian/Jewish
7.4 Berber
3.0 SSA
Decent breakdown. My mom’s known ancestry is from Northern Iberia and this nails the area relatively well. The Iberian regions included in north4 seem to be pais vasco and Navarra, and in northwest4 Cantabria and Asturias. Looking at the Palestinian/Jewish component, I feel it’s so high cause there is some EEF included with the Levantine sample. So taking it out my mom gets this

Target: Mom_scaled
Distance: 1.5027% / 0.01502653 | R5P
66.4 Iberian_Peninsula
18.4 Amerindian
6.4 Yemenite
5.8 Berber
3.0 SSA
Same refrences for Iberian and Berber but I think this is more accurate for a breakdown. I have to say this is one of the better calculators I’ve come across. Great job! Also if people can show the non aggregated version of their results so we can see what region of Iberia you get that would be much appreciated.

mokordo
01-26-2021, 06:14 PM
Personalmente evito usar la muestra de Suiza, tengo dudas que represente algo en Iberia prerromana porque parece demasiado oriental para aquí. Igual a los de Italia.

Era por añadir una referencia antigua alejada del Mediterráneo. Era una muestra individual asignada a la cultura de la Téne, que contribuyó (supuestamente) a la expansión cultural celta, y que también se extendió por la península Ibérica, especialmente en el noroeste.

Esto sigue sin actualizar, supongo:

https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/ancient-human-dna_41837#5/45.905/-8.481

Edit:dislexia.

Ruderico
01-26-2021, 06:26 PM
Era por añadir una referencia antigua alejada del Mediterráneo. Era una muestra individual asignada a la cultura de la Téne, que contribuyó (supuestamente) a la expansión cultural celta, y que también se extendió por la península Ibérica, especialmente en el noroeste.

Esto sigue sin actualizar, supongo:

https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/ancient-human-dna_41837#5/45.905/-8.481

Edit:dislexia.

No sé si SX18 era un Celta La Tène o no, pero la influencia La Tène en Iberia fue indirecta y tardía, los nuestros Celtas deberían ser originalmente Hallstatt. Esta muestra va a reducir o eliminar el aporte Romano.


Edit:
https://i.postimg.cc/vB3bx7Fp/la-tene.png

Solo en Cataluña.

mokordo
01-26-2021, 11:24 PM
No sé si SX18 era un Celta La Tène o no, pero la influencia La Tène en Iberia fue indirecta y tardía, los nuestros Celtas deberían ser originalmente Hallstatt. Esta muestra va a reducir o eliminar el aporte Romano.


Edit:
https://i.postimg.cc/vB3bx7Fp/la-tene.png

Solo en Cataluña.

Me refería a la cultura Celta en el noroeste, no específicamente La Téne. La frase es bastante ambigua en eso supongo.

De todas formas, La Tène es la "continuación" de Hallstat, y encima en este caso justo en el mismo área donde tuvo su origen Hallstat, así que tampoco tendrían demasiada diferencia genética.

Peores referencias descontextualizadas y menos precisas históricamente damos por válidas.

Aquí tenemos algo interesante para todo esto de muestras Ibéricas peninsulares, no tiene mucha profundidad, pero puede ayudar para tener más claro las cosas:

http://atlasnacional.ign.es/wane/Discusi%C3%B3n:Prehistoria

Y mapas antiguos del Instituto Geográfico Nacional:

http://www.ign.es/web/catalogo-cartoteca/apibadasid/cartoteca/searchbyObraMadre/9391

mokordo
01-26-2021, 11:30 PM
Esta es la versión de 1490 del desaparecido original de Ptolomeo, en este caso el mapa de la península Ibérica:

http://www2.ign.es/MapasAbsysJPG/92-1(0086-mapa-bn).jpg

JJJ
01-26-2021, 11:50 PM
Esta es la versión de 1490 del desaparecido original de Ptolomeo, en este caso el mapa de la península Ibérica:

http://www2.ign.es/MapasAbsysJPG/92-1(0086-mapa-bn).jpg

Lo hizo a mano y sufría de parkinson, no culpar.

Ruderico
01-26-2021, 11:56 PM
De todas formas, La Tène es la "continuación" de Hallstat, y encima en este caso justo en el mismo área donde tuvo su origen Hallstat, así que tampoco tendrían demasiada diferencia genética.



Nadie sabe si esto es verdad o no, ni siquiera sabemos de onde son originarios los primeros celtas. Bueno, tampoco importa, la influencia genética oriental (norte o sur) solo parece ter llegado a Iberia durante o después del periodo Romano. Antes eran todos diferentes tipos de BBs, unos con más influencia de las estepas (más "norteños"), otros menos (más "sureños").

mokordo
01-28-2021, 03:14 PM
Nadie sabe si esto es verdad o no, ni siquiera sabemos de onde son originarios los primeros celtas. Bueno, tampoco importa, la influencia genética oriental (norte o sur) solo parece ter llegado a Iberia durante o después del periodo Romano. Antes eran todos diferentes tipos de BBs, unos con más influencia de las estepas (más "norteños"), otros menos (más "sureños").

Qué es BBs?

Shadogowah
01-28-2021, 03:16 PM
Qué es BBs?

Bell Beakers = Cultura de Vaso Campaniforme

mokordo
01-28-2021, 03:59 PM
Bell Beakers = Cultura de Vaso Campaniforme

Ah vale, gracias.

Me lío con los acrónimos y las siglas en inglés.:confused:

mokordo
01-28-2021, 07:15 PM
Mi intención al hacer esto es que TODOS los europeos dieran menos de 4 en su distancia, solo con tres referencias europeas.¿Funcionará?


NortEast_Europe,0.1330925,0.1233525,0.0776844,0.07 07731,0.0396901,0.0265138,0.0099119,0.0137819,-0.00328,-0.0275824,-0.0023369,-0.0096953,0.0186679,0.0262142,-0.0118347,-0.0007506,0.0029235,-0.0004743,0.0028551,0.0025442,-0.0039661,-0.004753,0.0066989,-0.0062723,-0.0003432
Mediterranean_Europe,0.1107124,0.1570148,-0.0046819,-0.0604524,0.026575,-0.0232162,-0.0011537,-0.0011315,0.02227,0.0456119,0.0021932,0.0082494,-0.0130593,-0.0055753,-0.0110867,-0.0010533,0.0068829,-0.0001749,0.0019634,-0.0071227,-0.0022851,0.000021,-0.0063978,-0.0098028,-0.0008641
Atlantic_Europe,0.1309797,0.1425567,0.0602359,0.03 04297,0.0474342,0.0108307,0.0008123,0.003965,0.016 8203,0.0207281,-0.0059951,0.0080023,-0.0157727,-0.0128968,0.019385,0.0017089,-0.0104805,0.0025817,0.00118,-0.0015573,0.0073493,0.0017121,-0.0031288,0.0029832,0.0014848

Añadir a conveniencia o todas a la vez, como cada cual quiera.


WestAsian,0.1012852,0.0921743,-0.0221975,-0.0319075,-0.0183311,-0.0090549,0.004979,-0.0006415,-0.0199757,-0.0016669,-0.0002596,0.0016976,-0.0029641,0.0024475,-0.0042747,-0.0000297,0.003746,0.0007131,0.0025072,-0.002135,-0.0019786,-0.0006205,-0.0009306,-0.0007372,0.0002711
CentralAsia,0.07803731,-0.08936176,-0.00047221,0.00394479,-0.0379229,-0.00009677,0.00826679,0.00508896,-0.01710611,-0.00953306,-0.01328649,-0.00169941,-0.00048453,-0.005746,0.00462246,0.00569538,-0.00169203,0.00057941,-0.00054815,-0.00243599,-0.00924481,-0.00295053,-0.00344939,-0.00021486,0.00169913
MiddleEast&NorthAfrica,0.0051174,0.1358911,-0.0284679,-0.0755037,0.005654,-0.0311063,-0.0159838,0.0018141,0.0367107,0.0159106,0.0066618,-0.0071626,0.0188508,-0.0075023,0.0053709,-0.002144,-0.0021938,-0.0102912,-0.0202072,0.005359,-0.0068545,-0.0166401,0.0114107,-0.0002063,0.0026248
African,-0.4407385,0.082132,-0.0036712,-0.0307831,0.00031,-0.0119351,-0.0303698,0.0250254,0.0292423,-0.0184119,0.0005235,-0.0045451,0.0178759,0.0010055,0.0178237,-0.0106052,0.0090299,0.0004205,0.0074652,-0.0019446,0.0018318,0.003991,-0.0017979,-0.0005824,-0.001824

No hay ninguna referencia "pura" de ningún país concreto, aunque la NorthEast a cualquier eslavo le funcionará muy bien.

La idea era dibujar un "triángulo genético" que comprendiera un área que no quede demasiado lejana de ningún europeo. Y por supuesto, pensando que esas referencias, cuando se mezclen con asiáticas o africanas, funcionen bien discriminando cada componente.

Las referencias "no-europeas", están hechas también, 2 africanas y dos asiáticas, de regiones de donde solemos tener mezcla los europeos. Son pocas referencias, así que la distancia general con las 7 referencias, serían el doble que a los europeos. Con las 4 referencias no-eurpeas, todos deberíamos estar por debajo de 3, y generalmente en 2 en cosa de distancias (algunos incluso menos).

El primer modelo de "4 corners of Europe"(con 4 referencias) funcionó muy bien, pero solo con 3 es más complicado conseguir buenas distancias para todo el mundo.

Edit:Añado las referencias complementarias.

JJJ
01-28-2021, 07:22 PM
Mi intención al hacer esto es que TODOS los europeos dieran menos de 4 en su distancia, solo con tres referencias europeas.¿Funcionará?


NortEast_Europe,0.1330925,0.1233525,0.0776844,0.07 07731,0.0396901,0.0265138,0.0099119,0.0137819,-0.00328,-0.0275824,-0.0023369,-0.0096953,0.0186679,0.0262142,-0.0118347,-0.0007506,0.0029235,-0.0004743,0.0028551,0.0025442,-0.0039661,-0.004753,0.0066989,-0.0062723,-0.0003432
Mediterranean_Europe,0.1107124,0.1570148,-0.0046819,-0.0604524,0.026575,-0.0232162,-0.0011537,-0.0011315,0.02227,0.0456119,0.0021932,0.0082494,-0.0130593,-0.0055753,-0.0110867,-0.0010533,0.0068829,-0.0001749,0.0019634,-0.0071227,-0.0022851,0.000021,-0.0063978,-0.0098028,-0.0008641
Atlantic_Europe,0.1309797,0.1425567,0.0602359,0.03 04297,0.0474342,0.0108307,0.0008123,0.003965,0.016 8203,0.0207281,-0.0059951,0.0080023,-0.0157727,-0.0128968,0.019385,0.0017089,-0.0104805,0.0025817,0.00118,-0.0015573,0.0073493,0.0017121,-0.0031288,0.0029832,0.0014848

No hay ninguna referencia "pura" de ningún país concreto, aunque la NorthEast a cualquier eslavo le funcionará muy bien.

La idea era dibujar un "triángulo genético" que comprendiera un área que no quede demasiado lejana de ningún europeo. Y por supuesto, pensando que esas referencias, cuando se mezclen con asiáticas o africanas, funcionen bien discriminando cada componente.

Las referencias "no-europeas", están hechas también, 2 africanas y dos asiáticas, de regiones de donde solemos tener mezcla los europeos. Son pocas referencias, así que la distancia general con las 7 referencias, serían el doble que a los europeos. Con las 4 referencias no-eurpeas, todos deberíamos estar por debajo de 3, y generalmente en 2 en cosa de distancias (algunos incluso menos).

El primer modelo de "4 corners of Europe"(con 4 referencias) funcionó muy bien, pero solo con 3 es más complicado conseguir buenas distancias para todo el mundo.

No guanche, no party.

Target: Juan_scaled
Distance: 4.0728% / 0.04072828
60.0 Atlantic_Europe
40.0 Mediterranean_Europe

mokordo
01-28-2021, 07:34 PM
No guanche, no party.

Target: Juan_scaled
Distance: 4.0728% / 0.04072828
e

No está del todo mal, considerando que tú eres el más difícil en esto de las distancias. Yo creo que tus coordenadas están estropeadas, se debió meter algún bicho en el ordenador de Davidski ese día...

Hay una referencia genérica Mena y otra Africana, y dos asiáticas, centro-asiática y asiática occidental, el modelo está centrado en europeos, mejor las añado directamente en vez de ir probando poco a poco el modelo.

No he añadido ninguna surasiática...:eyebrows:

mokordo
01-28-2021, 07:37 PM
e

A ver ahora...


NortEast_Europe,0.1330925,0.1233525,0.0776844,0.07 07731,0.0396901,0.0265138,0.0099119,0.0137819,-0.00328,-0.0275824,-0.0023369,-0.0096953,0.0186679,0.0262142,-0.0118347,-0.0007506,0.0029235,-0.0004743,0.0028551,0.0025442,-0.0039661,-0.004753,0.0066989,-0.0062723,-0.0003432
Mediterranean_Europe,0.1107124,0.1570148,-0.0046819,-0.0604524,0.026575,-0.0232162,-0.0011537,-0.0011315,0.02227,0.0456119,0.0021932,0.0082494,-0.0130593,-0.0055753,-0.0110867,-0.0010533,0.0068829,-0.0001749,0.0019634,-0.0071227,-0.0022851,0.000021,-0.0063978,-0.0098028,-0.0008641
Atlantic_Europe,0.1309797,0.1425567,0.0602359,0.03 04297,0.0474342,0.0108307,0.0008123,0.003965,0.016 8203,0.0207281,-0.0059951,0.0080023,-0.0157727,-0.0128968,0.019385,0.0017089,-0.0104805,0.0025817,0.00118,-0.0015573,0.0073493,0.0017121,-0.0031288,0.0029832,0.0014848
WestAsian,0.1012852,0.0921743,-0.0221975,-0.0319075,-0.0183311,-0.0090549,0.004979,-0.0006415,-0.0199757,-0.0016669,-0.0002596,0.0016976,-0.0029641,0.0024475,-0.0042747,-0.0000297,0.003746,0.0007131,0.0025072,-0.002135,-0.0019786,-0.0006205,-0.0009306,-0.0007372,0.0002711
CentralAsia,0.07803731,-0.08936176,-0.00047221,0.00394479,-0.0379229,-0.00009677,0.00826679,0.00508896,-0.01710611,-0.00953306,-0.01328649,-0.00169941,-0.00048453,-0.005746,0.00462246,0.00569538,-0.00169203,0.00057941,-0.00054815,-0.00243599,-0.00924481,-0.00295053,-0.00344939,-0.00021486,0.00169913
MiddleEast&NorthAfrica,0.0051174,0.1358911,-0.0284679,-0.0755037,0.005654,-0.0311063,-0.0159838,0.0018141,0.0367107,0.0159106,0.0066618,-0.0071626,0.0188508,-0.0075023,0.0053709,-0.002144,-0.0021938,-0.0102912,-0.0202072,0.005359,-0.0068545,-0.0166401,0.0114107,-0.0002063,0.0026248
African,-0.4407385,0.082132,-0.0036712,-0.0307831,0.00031,-0.0119351,-0.0303698,0.0250254,0.0292423,-0.0184119,0.0005235,-0.0045451,0.0178759,0.0010055,0.0178237,-0.0106052,0.0090299,0.0004205,0.0074652,-0.0019446,0.0018318,0.003991,-0.0017979,-0.0005824,-0.001824

mokordo
01-28-2021, 07:40 PM
A ver ahora...


NortEast_Europe,0.1330925,0.1233525,0.0776844,0.07 07731,0.0396901,0.0265138,0.0099119,0.0137819,-0.00328,-0.0275824,-0.0023369,-0.0096953,0.0186679,0.0262142,-0.0118347,-0.0007506,0.0029235,-0.0004743,0.0028551,0.0025442,-0.0039661,-0.004753,0.0066989,-0.0062723,-0.0003432
Mediterranean_Europe,0.1107124,0.1570148,-0.0046819,-0.0604524,0.026575,-0.0232162,-0.0011537,-0.0011315,0.02227,0.0456119,0.0021932,0.0082494,-0.0130593,-0.0055753,-0.0110867,-0.0010533,0.0068829,-0.0001749,0.0019634,-0.0071227,-0.0022851,0.000021,-0.0063978,-0.0098028,-0.0008641
Atlantic_Europe,0.1309797,0.1425567,0.0602359,0.03 04297,0.0474342,0.0108307,0.0008123,0.003965,0.016 8203,0.0207281,-0.0059951,0.0080023,-0.0157727,-0.0128968,0.019385,0.0017089,-0.0104805,0.0025817,0.00118,-0.0015573,0.0073493,0.0017121,-0.0031288,0.0029832,0.0014848
WestAsian,0.1012852,0.0921743,-0.0221975,-0.0319075,-0.0183311,-0.0090549,0.004979,-0.0006415,-0.0199757,-0.0016669,-0.0002596,0.0016976,-0.0029641,0.0024475,-0.0042747,-0.0000297,0.003746,0.0007131,0.0025072,-0.002135,-0.0019786,-0.0006205,-0.0009306,-0.0007372,0.0002711
CentralAsia,0.07803731,-0.08936176,-0.00047221,0.00394479,-0.0379229,-0.00009677,0.00826679,0.00508896,-0.01710611,-0.00953306,-0.01328649,-0.00169941,-0.00048453,-0.005746,0.00462246,0.00569538,-0.00169203,0.00057941,-0.00054815,-0.00243599,-0.00924481,-0.00295053,-0.00344939,-0.00021486,0.00169913
MiddleEast&NorthAfrica,0.0051174,0.1358911,-0.0284679,-0.0755037,0.005654,-0.0311063,-0.0159838,0.0018141,0.0367107,0.0159106,0.0066618,-0.0071626,0.0188508,-0.0075023,0.0053709,-0.002144,-0.0021938,-0.0102912,-0.0202072,0.005359,-0.0068545,-0.0166401,0.0114107,-0.0002063,0.0026248
African,-0.4407385,0.082132,-0.0036712,-0.0307831,0.00031,-0.0119351,-0.0303698,0.0250254,0.0292423,-0.0184119,0.0005235,-0.0045451,0.0178759,0.0010055,0.0178237,-0.0106052,0.0090299,0.0004205,0.0074652,-0.0019446,0.0018318,0.003991,-0.0017979,-0.0005824,-0.001824

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 2.1009% / 0.02100931
70.4 Atlantic_Europe
27.2 Mediterranean_Europe
2.4 MiddleEast&NorthAfrica

Target: gixajo_dad_scaled
Distance: 2.3589% / 0.02358914
57.8 Atlantic_Europe
40.0 Mediterranean_Europe
2.2 African

Target: gixajo_mom_scaled
Distance: 2.3188% / 0.02318759
79.2 Atlantic_Europe
16.8 Mediterranean_Europe
4.0 MiddleEast&NorthAfrica

Mi madre es más MENA que yo!!!

Es bastante estable en nuestro caso, las distancias no cambian demasiado con 0.25X.

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 2.1149% / 0.02114945 | ADC: 0.25x
71.0 Atlantic_Europe
28.2 Mediterranean_Europe
0.8 MiddleEast&NorthAfrica

Target: gixajo_dad_scaled
Distance: 2.3987% / 0.02398732 | ADC: 0.25x
58.0 Atlantic_Europe
40.6 Mediterranean_Europe
1.4 African

Target: gixajo_mom_scaled
Distance: 2.3314% / 0.02331361 | ADC: 0.25x
80.2 Atlantic_Europe
17.0 Mediterranean_Europe
2.8 MiddleEast&NorthAfrica

alejandromb92
01-28-2021, 09:30 PM
Target: Alejandro_scaled
Distance: 2.6874% / 0.02687432 | ADC: 0.25x RC
37.8 Atlantic_Europe
29.4 Mediterranean_Europe
18.6 MiddleEast&NorthAfrica
14.2 NortEast_Europe

JJJ
01-28-2021, 09:47 PM
A ver ahora...


NortEast_Europe,0.1330925,0.1233525,0.0776844,0.07 07731,0.0396901,0.0265138,0.0099119,0.0137819,-0.00328,-0.0275824,-0.0023369,-0.0096953,0.0186679,0.0262142,-0.0118347,-0.0007506,0.0029235,-0.0004743,0.0028551,0.0025442,-0.0039661,-0.004753,0.0066989,-0.0062723,-0.0003432
Mediterranean_Europe,0.1107124,0.1570148,-0.0046819,-0.0604524,0.026575,-0.0232162,-0.0011537,-0.0011315,0.02227,0.0456119,0.0021932,0.0082494,-0.0130593,-0.0055753,-0.0110867,-0.0010533,0.0068829,-0.0001749,0.0019634,-0.0071227,-0.0022851,0.000021,-0.0063978,-0.0098028,-0.0008641
Atlantic_Europe,0.1309797,0.1425567,0.0602359,0.03 04297,0.0474342,0.0108307,0.0008123,0.003965,0.016 8203,0.0207281,-0.0059951,0.0080023,-0.0157727,-0.0128968,0.019385,0.0017089,-0.0104805,0.0025817,0.00118,-0.0015573,0.0073493,0.0017121,-0.0031288,0.0029832,0.0014848
WestAsian,0.1012852,0.0921743,-0.0221975,-0.0319075,-0.0183311,-0.0090549,0.004979,-0.0006415,-0.0199757,-0.0016669,-0.0002596,0.0016976,-0.0029641,0.0024475,-0.0042747,-0.0000297,0.003746,0.0007131,0.0025072,-0.002135,-0.0019786,-0.0006205,-0.0009306,-0.0007372,0.0002711
CentralAsia,0.07803731,-0.08936176,-0.00047221,0.00394479,-0.0379229,-0.00009677,0.00826679,0.00508896,-0.01710611,-0.00953306,-0.01328649,-0.00169941,-0.00048453,-0.005746,0.00462246,0.00569538,-0.00169203,0.00057941,-0.00054815,-0.00243599,-0.00924481,-0.00295053,-0.00344939,-0.00021486,0.00169913
MiddleEast&NorthAfrica,0.0051174,0.1358911,-0.0284679,-0.0755037,0.005654,-0.0311063,-0.0159838,0.0018141,0.0367107,0.0159106,0.0066618,-0.0071626,0.0188508,-0.0075023,0.0053709,-0.002144,-0.0021938,-0.0102912,-0.0202072,0.005359,-0.0068545,-0.0166401,0.0114107,-0.0002063,0.0026248
African,-0.4407385,0.082132,-0.0036712,-0.0307831,0.00031,-0.0119351,-0.0303698,0.0250254,0.0292423,-0.0184119,0.0005235,-0.0045451,0.0178759,0.0010055,0.0178237,-0.0106052,0.0090299,0.0004205,0.0074652,-0.0019446,0.0018318,0.003991,-0.0017979,-0.0005824,-0.001824

Target: Juan_scaled
Distance: 3.2486% / 0.03248624
60.8 Atlantic_Europe
34.4 Mediterranean_Europe
4.2 African
0.6 CentralAsia

Voy a probar tu antiguo modelo con una muestra china ya que soy en parte chino:

Target: Juan_scaled
Distance: 3.8226% / 0.03822601
58.6 Atlantic_Europe
39.2 Mediterranean_Europe
2.2 Zhuang

Por debajo de 4!

estesiquesabe
01-28-2021, 09:59 PM
A ver ahora...


NortEast_Europe,0.1330925,0.1233525,0.0776844,0.07 07731,0.0396901,0.0265138,0.0099119,0.0137819,-0.00328,-0.0275824,-0.0023369,-0.0096953,0.0186679,0.0262142,-0.0118347,-0.0007506,0.0029235,-0.0004743,0.0028551,0.0025442,-0.0039661,-0.004753,0.0066989,-0.0062723,-0.0003432
Mediterranean_Europe,0.1107124,0.1570148,-0.0046819,-0.0604524,0.026575,-0.0232162,-0.0011537,-0.0011315,0.02227,0.0456119,0.0021932,0.0082494,-0.0130593,-0.0055753,-0.0110867,-0.0010533,0.0068829,-0.0001749,0.0019634,-0.0071227,-0.0022851,0.000021,-0.0063978,-0.0098028,-0.0008641
Atlantic_Europe,0.1309797,0.1425567,0.0602359,0.03 04297,0.0474342,0.0108307,0.0008123,0.003965,0.016 8203,0.0207281,-0.0059951,0.0080023,-0.0157727,-0.0128968,0.019385,0.0017089,-0.0104805,0.0025817,0.00118,-0.0015573,0.0073493,0.0017121,-0.0031288,0.0029832,0.0014848
WestAsian,0.1012852,0.0921743,-0.0221975,-0.0319075,-0.0183311,-0.0090549,0.004979,-0.0006415,-0.0199757,-0.0016669,-0.0002596,0.0016976,-0.0029641,0.0024475,-0.0042747,-0.0000297,0.003746,0.0007131,0.0025072,-0.002135,-0.0019786,-0.0006205,-0.0009306,-0.0007372,0.0002711
CentralAsia,0.07803731,-0.08936176,-0.00047221,0.00394479,-0.0379229,-0.00009677,0.00826679,0.00508896,-0.01710611,-0.00953306,-0.01328649,-0.00169941,-0.00048453,-0.005746,0.00462246,0.00569538,-0.00169203,0.00057941,-0.00054815,-0.00243599,-0.00924481,-0.00295053,-0.00344939,-0.00021486,0.00169913
MiddleEast&NorthAfrica,0.0051174,0.1358911,-0.0284679,-0.0755037,0.005654,-0.0311063,-0.0159838,0.0018141,0.0367107,0.0159106,0.0066618,-0.0071626,0.0188508,-0.0075023,0.0053709,-0.002144,-0.0021938,-0.0102912,-0.0202072,0.005359,-0.0068545,-0.0166401,0.0114107,-0.0002063,0.0026248
African,-0.4407385,0.082132,-0.0036712,-0.0307831,0.00031,-0.0119351,-0.0303698,0.0250254,0.0292423,-0.0184119,0.0005235,-0.0045451,0.0178759,0.0010055,0.0178237,-0.0106052,0.0090299,0.0004205,0.0074652,-0.0019446,0.0018318,0.003991,-0.0017979,-0.0005824,-0.001824

Target: Xabier_scaled
Distance: 2.6616% / 0.02661551
70.4 Atlantic_Europe
19.0 Mediterranean_Europe
7.8 MiddleEast&NorthAfrica
2.8 CentralAsia

mokordo
01-28-2021, 10:25 PM
¿Ése modelo funcionaría así con todos los europeos, sean de donde sean?

Me refiero con distancias buenas.

estesiquesabe
01-28-2021, 10:52 PM
¿Ése modelo funcionaría así con todos los europeos, sean de donde sean?

Me refiero con distancias buenas.

Nope, solo con aquitanos

JJJ
01-28-2021, 11:16 PM
¿Ése modelo funcionaría así con todos los europeos, sean de donde sean?

Me refiero con distancias buenas.

Por qué no lo pruebas? las muestras africanas y árabes solo nos sirve a los españoles :lol:

Target: Greek_Thessaly
Distance: 1.9320% / 0.01932047
53.4 Mediterranean_Europe
23.4 NortEast_Europe
18.4 WestAsian
4.8 Atlantic_Europe

Target: Swedish
Distance: 2.3976% / 0.02397591
55.4 Atlantic_Europe
43.2 NortEast_Europe
1.4 CentralAsia

Target: Russian_Smolensk
Distance: 1.2530% / 0.01253026
93.8 NortEast_Europe
3.6 Atlantic_Europe
2.0 WestAsian
0.6 Mediterranean_Europe

Target: German
Distance: 1.2401% / 0.01240137
63.0 Atlantic_Europe
29.8 NortEast_Europe
7.2 WestAsian

Target: Italian_Piedmont
Distance: 1.3311% / 0.01331144
47.0 Mediterranean_Europe
31.6 Atlantic_Europe
11.2 WestAsian
10.2 NortEast_Europe

Target: Irish
Distance: 2.8977% / 0.02897656
78.6 Atlantic_Europe
19.0 NortEast_Europe
2.4 CentralAsia

Bueno exceptuando Sicilia y supongo que será extensible a los italianos del sur:

Target: Sicilian_West
Distance: 1.3489% / 0.01348887
51.8 Mediterranean_Europe
15.6 WestAsian
13.0 MiddleEast&NorthAfrica
10.2 NortEast_Europe
9.4 Atlantic_Europe

mokordo
01-29-2021, 12:21 AM
Por qué no lo pruebas? las muestras africanas y árabes solo nos sirve a los españoles :lol:

e

Con referencias ya lo probé, me refiero con coordenadas de los miembros (personas del foro, no de los otros miembros). ¿O crees que hago referencias con mezclas aleatorias a ver si suena la flauta? Por favor, esto es un foro serio!!! Aquí seguimos métodos científicos!!!

Las referencias son referencias, los resultados reales son diferentes. Lo digo por si debería abrir un thread para que lo pruebe la gente, o si hago eso me acusan de espamear modelos del G25 como el tal Leto del "otro foro". (Al que acabé ignorando porque me enviaba mensajes delirantes por privados, que guardo para hacer un Sábado de Luxe y ganarme un extra).

Edit: Supongo que separando el Mediterranean_Europe en Este y Oeste y añadiendo unas referencias absurda Iran+India y Chino+Indonesia+Japonesa ampliaría el número de clientes o al menos bajarían las distancias a todos, pero la "gracia" estaba en modelar la región Europea con solo tres referencias y que dos de ellas fueran Atlantic y Mediterranean.

Pedro Ruben
01-29-2021, 12:52 AM
Target: Pedro_scaled
Distance: 1.9076% / 0.01907605
68.2 Atlantic_Europe
18.4 MiddleEast&NorthAfrica
10.0 Mediterranean_Europe
3.4 African

Target: Dad_scaled
Distance: 2.5626% / 0.02562628
65.4 Atlantic_Europe
17.2 MiddleEast&NorthAfrica
12.8 Mediterranean_Europe
4.6 African

Target: Mom_scaled
Distance: 2.0271% / 0.02027059
69.0 Atlantic_Europe
24.4 Mediterranean_Europe
5.4 African
1.2 MiddleEast&NorthAfrica

Shadogowah
01-29-2021, 06:58 AM
Target: Shadogowah_scaled
Distance: 2.4317% / 0.02431676
61.6 Atlantic_Europe
28.2 Mediterranean_Europe
9.0 MiddleEast&NorthAfrica
1.2 African

Luso
01-29-2021, 08:18 AM
Target: Luso_scaled
Distance: 2.7136% / 0.02713567
64.4 Atlantic_Europe
22.0 Mediterranean_Europe
10.6 MiddleEast&NorthAfrica
3.0 African

alejandromb92
01-29-2021, 08:29 AM
Yo recomiendo ajustar siempre a x0.25 en los escalados porque han mejorado la penalizacion para una distribucion mas real de los componentes, literal no cambia la distancia del fit, pero los componentes ruidosos <1% los suele quitar.

mokordo
01-29-2021, 09:28 AM
Nope, solo con aquitanos

En el modelo ese, tú sacarías un 60% Britannia_Bronze Age por lo menos.

estesiquesabe
01-29-2021, 04:32 PM
Con referencias ya lo probé, me refiero con coordenadas de los miembros (personas del foro, no de los otros miembros). ¿O crees que hago referencias con mezclas aleatorias a ver si suena la flauta? Por favor, esto es un foro serio!!! Aquí seguimos métodos científicos!!!

Las referencias son referencias, los resultados reales son diferentes. Lo digo por si debería abrir un thread para que lo pruebe la gente, o si hago eso me acusan de espamear modelos del G25 como el tal Leto del "otro foro". (Al que acabé ignorando porque me enviaba mensajes delirantes por privados, que guardo para hacer un Sábado de Luxe y ganarme un extra).

Edit: Supongo que separando el Mediterranean_Europe en Este y Oeste y añadiendo unas referencias absurda Iran+India y Chino+Indonesia+Japonesa ampliaría el número de clientes o al menos bajarían las distancias a todos, pero la "gracia" estaba en modelar la región Europea con solo tres referencias y que dos de ellas fueran Atlantic y Mediterranean.

Pero que ha pasado con Leto? Parecía una persona normal, paso algo mas o solo lo de las calculadoras?

rober_tce
01-29-2021, 09:11 PM
Con referencias ya lo probé, me refiero con coordenadas de los miembros (personas del foro, no de los otros miembros). ¿O crees que hago referencias con mezclas aleatorias a ver si suena la flauta? Por favor, esto es un foro serio!!! Aquí seguimos métodos científicos!!!

Las referencias son referencias, los resultados reales son diferentes. Lo digo por si debería abrir un thread para que lo pruebe la gente, o si hago eso me acusan de espamear modelos del G25 como el tal Leto del "otro foro". (Al que acabé ignorando porque me enviaba mensajes delirantes por privados, que guardo para hacer un Sábado de Luxe y ganarme un extra).

Edit: Supongo que separando el Mediterranean_Europe en Este y Oeste y añadiendo unas referencias absurda Iran+India y Chino+Indonesia+Japonesa ampliaría el número de clientes o al menos bajarían las distancias a todos, pero la "gracia" estaba en modelar la región Europea con solo tres referencias y que dos de ellas fueran Atlantic y Mediterranean.

Valor tienes para aguantar las tonterías del otro foro... jaja

rober_tce
01-29-2021, 09:13 PM
Yo recomiendo ajustar siempre a x0.25 en los escalados porque han mejorado la penalizacion para una distribucion mas real de los componentes, literal no cambia la distancia del fit, pero los componentes ruidosos <1% los suele quitar.

Últimamente me estoy modelando con coordenadas sin escalar siguiendo la recomendación de Ruderico, y me va aun mejor que con las escaladas, al menos desde mi experiencia.

alejandromb92
01-29-2021, 09:19 PM
Últimamente me estoy modelando con coordenadas sin escalar siguiendo la recomendación de Ruderico, y me va aun mejor que con las escaladas, al menos desde mi experiencia.

Yo no se muy bien cual es la diferencia entre escalada y no escalada, pero hasta ahora yo he visto que las escaladas son como que más precisas y realistas. Es mi percepción ojo.

Massam
01-29-2021, 09:28 PM
Francés de Toulouse

Target: Toulouse_scaled
Distance: 1.5461% / 0.01546107
75.2 Iberian_Peninsula
14.6 Balkan
6.2 Scandinavian
2.0 Baltic
1.6 Slav
0.4 Indonesian

Target: Toulouse_scaled
Distance: 1.5740% / 0.01573958 | ADC: 0.25x RC
74.8 Iberian_Peninsula
9.4 Balkan
8.6 Slav
7.2 French


Target: Toulouse_scaled
Distance: 1.9541% / 0.01954110
70.0 Atlantic_Europe
27.0 Mediterranean_Europe
3.0 NortEast_Europe

Target: Toulouse_scaled
Distance: 1.9738% / 0.01973818 | ADC: 0.25x RC
74.0 Atlantic_Europe
26.0 Mediterranean_Europe

rober_tce
01-29-2021, 11:36 PM
Yo no se muy bien cual es la diferencia entre escalada y no escalada, pero hasta ahora yo he visto que las escaladas son como que más precisas y realistas. Es mi percepción ojo.

Ruderico explica muy bien dicha diferencia, recientemente lo trató en uno de lo hilos del subforo español. Supongo que sabrás que las escaladas utilizan coordenadas dimensionadas, y las no escaladas están en su estado original. Según Huijbregts, las coordenadas sin escala son las que deberían usarse, sin embargo Davidiski dice que se use la que mejor se adapte a cada uno.

mokordo
02-03-2021, 09:51 AM
All the Iberian modern references, all the Berber references and a representative collection of main European ethnicities/nationalities.

UNSCALED




Spanish&Portuguese:_Alacant,0.0099667,0.0144333,0.0098667, 8.33e-05,0.0134333,-0.001,-0.0021833,0.0007667,0.0114833,0.0171833,-0.0031333,0.0056833,-0.0104167,-0.0085833,0.0077,0.0024667,-0.0011833,8.33e-05,-0.0032167,-0.00445,0.0032333,-0.0003333,-0.0034,-0.0014167,0.0026167
Spanish&Portuguese:_Andalucia,0.0095,0.0143842,0.0094684,-0.0010632,0.0147053,-0.0021,-0.0008211,0.0011526,0.0120842,0.0171,-0.0013263,0.0048526,-0.0088842,-0.0082895,0.0075474,-0.0018842,-0.0047368,-0.0008684,-0.0033895,-0.0017053,0.0023474,-0.0010526,-0.0016,-0.0044263,0.0015737
Spanish&Portuguese:_Aragon,0.0105,0.014425,0.010975,-1e-04,0.015225,-5e-05,-0.000225,0.001275,0.012175,0.02025,-0.001325,0.006875,-0.011875,-0.009325,0.0094,-0.0021,-0.00365,-0.000625,-0.001775,8e-04,0.002775,7.5e-05,-0.00095,-0.000875,-2e-04
Spanish&Portuguese:_Asturias,0.0097,0.0142,0.0121,2e-04,0.0168,-0.0026,-0.0031,0.003,0.0127,0.0172,-0.002,0.0054,-0.0128,-0.0066,0.0106,-0.0101,-0.0122,0.001,-0.0043,-7e-04,0.0055,-0.0049,-0.0013,0.0011,0.0054
Spanish&Portuguese:_Baleares,0.0102,0.0144667,0.0107667,-0.0008667,0.0132333,-8e-04,-0.0002333,0.0010667,0.0094,0.0160667,-0.0028,0.0053,-0.0101,-0.0091667,0.0029,0.0017,0.0015333,0.0008333,9e-04,-0.0035,0.0004333,5e-04,0.001,0.0002667,-0.0034333
Spanish&Portuguese:_Barcelones,0.01048,0.01468,0.01212,0.0 0144,0.01492,0.0012,0.00138,0.00158,0.0102,0.01626 ,-0.00256,0.0047,-0.00964,-0.0067,0.00572,-0.00032,-0.00468,-8e-05,0.00188,-0.00282,0.00286,-4e-05,-0.00324,-0.00302,0.00128
Spanish&Portuguese:_Camp_de_Tarragona,0.0104625,0.014225,0 .0111875,0.00065,0.0143625,-0.0002375,-0.0009375,0.000625,0.0099125,0.0152875,0.001,0.004 ,-0.0087625,-0.0096,0.0056125,0.001875,-0.0013375,0.0008625,-0.0006375,0.0002625,0.00125,0.0021125,-0.0007625,-0.004075,-0.0006125
Spanish&Portuguese:_Canarias,0.0071421,0.0143474,0.0080263 ,-0.0039947,0.0122947,-0.0022316,-0.0027632,0.0003526,0.0154526,0.0159421,-0.0003053,0.0035105,-0.0048263,-0.0098947,0.0081211,-0.0016579,-0.0021,-0.0027526,-0.0086263,0.0007895,0.0004842,-0.0052,0.0013316,-0.0028368,0.0014211
Spanish&Portuguese:_Cantabria,0.0105,0.0145333,0.0117667,0 .0018333,0.0152,-0.0021333,-0.0002333,0.0008333,0.0115333,0.0190667,-0.0034667,0.0057667,-0.0125333,-0.0122667,0.0067,0.0012333,-0.0027,0.001,-0.0043,-0.0038333,0.0022333,6e-04,-0.0048333,-0.0014667,0.0005667
Spanish&Portuguese:_Castello,0.0105714,0.0144,0.0115286,0. 0003571,0.0147143,-0.0005571,-5e-04,0.0005143,0.0117429,0.0191143,-0.0034571,0.0045714,-0.0107429,-0.0109857,0.0058,0.0035429,0.0021143,0.0011,-7e-04,-0.0002143,0.0046286,0.0003286,-0.0052,-0.0018,0.0004714
Spanish&Portuguese:_Castilla_La_Mancha,0.01015,0.014575,0. 0107,-0.001,0.013675,-0.001725,-0.000725,0.00075,0.01205,0.018625,-0.0013,0.0058,-0.010275,-0.009,0.007575,-8e-04,-0.004625,-0.00015,-1e-04,-0.00055,0.004375,0.0012,-0.00085,-0.003225,-9e-04
Spanish&Portuguese:_Castilla_Y_Leon,0.0094667,0.0141667,0. 0107333,-0.0006667,0.0142333,0.0006667,-0.0007333,0.002,0.0139,0.0160333,-0.0014333,0.0052333,-0.0081333,-0.0087333,0.0090333,-0.0049333,-0.0052,-0.0013667,-0.0036,-0.0018333,0.0002333,-0.0007333,0.0010667,-0.0021333,-0.0023
Spanish&Portuguese:_Cataluna,0.0100667,0.0144,0.0121667,0. 0007333,0.0153333,0,-0.0008667,0.0010333,0.0109333,0.0167333,-0.0011667,0.0057333,-0.0107667,-0.0077333,0.0065333,0.0012,-5e-04,-0.0013,-9e-04,-0.0007667,0.0049667,-0.0046333,-0.0031667,-0.0016,8e-04
Spanish&Portuguese:_Catalunya_Central,0.0109222,0.0147,0.0 117,0.0006556,0.0151667,0.0005889,-7.78e-05,0.0004222,0.0103222,0.0159,-0.0017778,0.0042889,-0.0100667,-0.0090111,0.0055778,0.0037556,0.0002444,0.0010444,-0.0006444,-0.0011222,0.0023556,0.0013444,-0.0005444,-0.0021778,-6e-04
Spanish&Portuguese:_Eivissa,0.0102077,0.0144462,0.0099846,-0.0012462,0.0129077,-0.0012231,0.0001154,0.0013615,0.0101,0.0164154,-0.0015538,0.0049538,-0.0082231,-0.0062154,0.0065,0.0007308,-0.0028231,-0.0023077,-0.0018923,-0.0031846,0.0026077,0.0014692,-0.0014154,-0.0001538,-0.0012308
Spanish&Portuguese:_Extremadura,0.0092333,0.0147667,0.0087 667,-0.0003667,0.0133,-0.001,-0.0017,-0.0004333,0.0120667,0.0171333,-8e-04,0.0033667,-0.0071333,-0.0089,0.0055667,0.0019667,-0.0018,-0.0026,-0.0051,0.0003333,0.0017,-0.0038333,-0.0012,-0.0023,0.0012
Spanish&Portuguese:_Galicia,0.0095556,0.0144222,0.0108889,-0.0005111,0.0133889,-3.33e-05,-0.0023222,0.00105,0.0120833,0.0164778,-0.0013111,0.0038278,-0.0084833,-0.0088333,0.0082111,0.0004444,-0.00325,-0.0017056,-0.0040111,-0.0008056,7e-04,-0.0023444,-0.0006556,-0.0030556,0.0010889
Spanish&Portuguese:_Girona,0.01066,0.01437,0.01111,0.00102 ,0.01338,0.00058,-0.00019,0.00146,0.00977,0.01695,-0.00127,0.00592,-0.00905,-0.0098,0.00558,0.0023,0.00157,-0.00049,0.00133,-0.00218,0.00227,-0.00081,-0.00028,0.00011,-0.00138
Spanish&Portuguese:_La_Rioja,0.0107,0.015,0.0124,-0.0026,0.0175,-0.0038,-8e-04,0.001,0.0135,0.0213,-0.0033,0.0038,-0.0114,-0.0108,0.0049,0.0103,0.0081,-0.0019,-5e-04,4e-04,0.0104,0.0019,-0.0018,-0.0078,7e-04
Spanish&Portuguese:_Lleida,0.0107333,0.0144556,0.0114,0.00 06333,0.0143778,-0.0005444,0.0002778,0.0009111,0.0110444,0.0163556,-0.0005667,0.0059667,-0.0110333,-0.0099222,0.0061889,0.0001778,-0.0010889,0.0005111,0.001,-0.0007222,0.0059222,0.0002667,-0.0013778,-0.0006556,-0.0005333
Spanish&Portuguese:_Mallorca,0.0103333,0.0145667,0.0103222 ,0.0003333,0.0128,-0.0004889,0.0001667,0.0013333,0.0085111,0.0153333,-0.0018667,0.0041889,-0.0104667,-0.0061111,0.0047444,0.0019,0.0010444,0.0011556,-7e-04,-0.0010778,0.0007778,0.0006111,-0.0014222,0.0001667,-2e-04
Spanish&Portuguese:_Menorca,0.0101667,0.0145333,0.0097667,-0.0018667,0.0139,-6e-04,6e-04,6.67e-05,0.0106,0.0161,-0.0013667,0.0062,-0.0097,-0.0052667,0.0023667,-0.0021667,-0.0021667,0.0011,-7e-04,-0.0014333,0.0026333,0.0015667,0.0008667,-0.0055,-0.0049
Spanish&Portuguese:_Murcia,0.0096,0.014075,0.01005,-0.0018,0.014775,-0.00075,-0.002125,-0.00145,0.01235,0.017675,-0.0021,0.002275,-0.008325,-0.00785,0.003475,-0.001075,0.000775,0.000675,-5e-05,8e-04,0.004025,-0.002375,-0.00055,-0.0025,0.00165
Spanish&Portuguese:_Navarra,0.0105,0.0144,0.0117333,-0.0002333,0.0158333,-0.0004333,-0.0013667,-0.0006333,0.0122,0.0212333,-0.0030667,0.0076667,-0.0102667,-0.0123667,0.0115333,0.0021333,-0.0067,0.0008667,-0.0019667,-0.0020333,0.0037333,0.0020667,-0.0056333,3.33e-05,0.0039667
Spanish&Portuguese:_Pais_Vasco,0.0112667,0.0149333,0.01493 33,0.0025,0.0169333,0.0008667,1e-04,0.0012667,0.0135667,0.0218667,-0.0036333,0.0062333,-0.0141667,-0.0087667,0.0135667,-0.0018667,-0.0094667,0.0022667,0.0017667,-0.0052667,0.0062,-0.0019667,-0.0053,-0.0056,0.0030667
Spanish&Portuguese:Basque_Spanish,0.0115889,0.0148111,0.01 54556,0.0027889,0.0187111,4.44e-05,-0.0014111,0.0001778,0.0153333,0.0250222,-0.0027889,0.0077444,-0.0153222,-0.0136333,0.0132222,0.0028111,-0.0044556,0.0021889,-0.0014444,-5.56e-05,0.0070444,0.0020111,-0.0055889,-0.0075,0.0018889
Spanish&Portuguese:_Penedes,0.0107,0.0143636,0.0108364,0.0 014636,0.0136636,0.0006636,-0.0010273,0.0003455,0.0090091,0.0154909,-0.0008364,0.0036,-0.0108545,-0.0100636,0.0074182,0.0010727,0.0014727,0.0015182, 8.18e-05,-9e-04,0.0013818,-0.0005182,-0.0022455,-0.0013909,0.0003545
Spanish&Portuguese:_Peri-Barcelona,0.01065,0.01474,0.01096,0.00047,0.01449, 9e-05,0.00023,0.00058,0.01049,0.01648,-0.00107,0.00467,-0.00923,-0.00898,0.0054,0.00095,6e-05,-2e-04,-0.00059,-0.00109,0.00217,0.00067,-0.00119,-0.00035,0.00191
Spanish&Portuguese:_Pirineu,0.0107167,0.0144333,0.0113167, 8e-04,0.0146167,-3e-04,-0.0003667,0.0019,0.0124167,0.0188333,-0.0014167,0.0064167,-0.00995,-0.00905,0.0051833,0.0003333,-0.0011,3e-04,-0.0035333,-0.0012833,0.0029667,-5e-04,-0.0023,-0.00535,0.0015167
Spanish&Portuguese:_Soria,0.0107,0.014,0.01325,0.00235,0.0 1545,0.00045,-0.00125,-0.00055,0.0101,0.02055,-0.00645,0.0076,-0.0117,-0.0166,0.0084,0.01095,0.0104,-0.0023,-0.00325,-0.00055,-0.00025,-0.00115,-0.00305,-0.0049,-0.00175
Spanish&Portuguese:_Terres_de_l'Ebre,0.01072,0.01446,0.010 98,-0.00054,0.01392,-0.00158,-6e-05,0.00196,0.00918,0.01808,-0.00202,0.00522,-0.01118,-0.00808,0.0071,-0.00256,-0.00406,-0.00054,0.00032,0.00026,0.00232,6e-04,-0.0029,-0.00448,-0.00108
Spanish&Portuguese:_Valencia,0.0103667,0.0142417,0.0108333 ,-0.000275,0.0151,-0.0005167,-0.00085,0.0007083,0.011325,0.01825,-0.00185,0.0055583,-0.00865,-0.0089667,0.007075,-0.0006417,-0.0036,-0.0013583,-0.0009833,-0.0007333,0.0044667,-0.0011083,-0.0016583,-0.0042667,0.0017167
Spanish&Portuguese:Portuguese,0.009328,0.01424,0.009548,-0.001372,0.013692,-0.001452,-0.001592,0.001196,0.012516,0.01632,-0.000452,0.004952,-0.008568,-0.008184,0.009252,-3e-04,-0.000868,-7e-04,-0.004584,-0.000196,0.000912,-0.00208,0.001056,-0.00094,-8.8e-05
British_Isles:Irish,0.0117165,0.0132047,0.01622,0. 0151282,0.0122788,0.0069388,0.0014012,0.0020424,0. 0017447,0.0016059,-0.0042929,0.0038965,-0.0095447,-0.0102282,0.0191094,0.0039329,-0.0085482,0.0014953,0.0004753,0.00142,0.0040988,0. 0010341,0.0002376,0.0119565,0.0005518
British_Isles:English,0.0115842,0.0134947,0.016384 2,0.0136263,0.0127474,0.0060053,0.0021211,0.002489 5,0.0025737,0.0031158,-0.0029368,0.0037474,-0.0084684,-0.0075211,0.0151895,0.0026789,-0.0079526,0.0032316,0.0029316,0.0023684,0.0047579, 0.0027526,-0.0026526,0.0114474,2.63e-05
British_Isles:Scottish,0.01155,0.0132179,0.0165107 ,0.0145643,0.0127071,0.0061964,0.0015107,0.0022429 ,0.0017464,0.00155,-0.0034571,0.0033679,-0.0078571,-0.0087,0.0169643,0.0023571,-0.0086321,0.0021893,0.0020286,0.0011607,0.0033857, 0.002675,-0.0005321,0.01125,-0.0006429
British_Isles:English_Cornwall,0.0114385,0.0137615 ,0.0162692,0.0133692,0.0136154,0.0058846,0.0014615 ,0.0027692,0.0031692,0.0038231,-0.0028538,0.0043231,-0.0092462,-0.0074462,0.0152923,0.0023923,-0.0096077,0.0016692,0.0029923,0.0025923,0.0038538, 0.0031308,-0.0006154,0.0119231,0.0005769
Berber:Berber_Algeria,-0.0258,0.010355,0.00053,-0.012405,0.004695,-0.004425,-0.015605,0.009125,0.01317,0.011815,0.003545,-0.00302,0.01434,-0.0054,0.00842,-0.00666,0.002395,-0.008745,-0.01834,0.00399,-0.0059,-0.01588,0.00988,-3e-04,0.002215
Berber:Berber_MAR_ERR,-0.0081143,0.0128929,-0.0008714,-0.0220429,0.0083357,-0.01165,-0.0132857,0.0043786,0.0329286,0.0164214,0.0060643,-0.0039857,0.0145714,-0.0117286,0.0148786,-0.0106643,-0.0045857,-0.0168643,-0.0367,0.0075786,-0.0131857,-0.0336643,0.0201286,-0.0017143,0.0044857
Berber:Berber_MAR_TIZ,-0.0090071,0.0129643,-0.0006143,-0.0235143,0.0100929,-0.0127857,-0.0142571,0.0052071,0.0374786,0.0173214,0.0054286,-0.0061786,0.0166357,-0.0148357,0.0149929,-0.0118571,8.57e-05,-0.0227571,-0.0425,0.0095286,-0.0166857,-0.0413357,0.0249429,-0.0043071,0.0062357
Berber:Berber_Tunisia_Chen,-0.0024556,0.0136944,-0.0021444,-0.0236778,0.0090111,-0.0126222,-0.0133556,0.0022889,0.0334556,0.01635,0.0024667,-0.0029278,0.0132056,-0.0117167,0.0103833,-0.01275,0.0001167,-0.0183833,-0.0371722,0.0062833,-0.0134889,-0.0326944,0.0228278,-0.0036944,0.0053167
Berber:Berber_Tunisia_Sen,-0.0034353,0.0132706,-0.0050294,-0.0241176,0.0061118,-0.0127529,-0.0092176,0.0025412,0.0282059,0.0112824,0.0034765,-0.0081647,0.0177059,-0.0068353,0.0091941,-0.0037765,-0.0043647,-0.0103941,-0.0241353,0.0092118,-0.0068235,-0.0195588,0.0121706,-4.12e-05,0.0004588
Berber:Tunisian_Berber_Matmata,-0.0045571,0.0130714,-0.0027286,-0.0229214,0.0073929,-0.0119214,-0.0106071,0.0021571,0.0282786,0.0153786,0.0033,-0.0038071,0.0143,-0.0105071,0.0095286,-0.0077643,0.00015,-0.0126357,-0.0285357,0.0059714,-0.00915,-0.0244929,0.0166143,-0.0016214,0.003
Berber:Tunisian_Berber_Tamezret,-0.00303,0.01328,-0.00248,-0.02414,0.00868,-0.01264,-0.01096,0.00331,0.02962,0.01652,0.00343,-0.0051,0.0135,-0.01236,0.01022,-0.00812,0.00143,-0.01669,-0.03181,0.00791,-0.00868,-0.02783,0.0194,-0.00239,0.00567
Berber:Tunisian_Berber_Zraoua,-0.0025267,0.0135267,-0.0034733,-0.0242267,0.0075533,-0.01174,-0.01242,0.00192,0.0306933,0.0158067,0.0038467,-0.00538,0.0150867,-0.0090667,0.01086,-0.0097133,-0.00514,-0.0139333,-0.03062,0.0067133,-0.0099733,-0.0242333,0.0180067,-0.00202,0.00254
Slav:Belarusian,0.01162,0.0121733,0.0198933,0.0215 467,0.0130733,0.0095267,0.0045667,0.0057733,-0.0001333,-0.0135,-0.00166,-0.0061467,0.013,0.0197867,-0.0083,-0.0028667,-0.00074,0.0002933,0.0032933,-0.00084,-0.0033933,-0.0037267,0.0062667,-0.0056933,0.00058
Slav:Ukrainian,0.0115027,0.0122189,0.0181243,0.017 8189,0.0122459,0.0076351,0.0037297,0.0049,-0.0014135,-0.0115784,-0.0010054,-0.0051108,0.0103297,0.0157189,-0.0082784,-0.000827,0.0035973,-0.0005514,0.0020676,0.0013595,-0.0036054,-0.0028135,0.0054676,-0.0033676,0.0006027
German:German,0.0114443,0.0135278,0.0153747,0.0119 835,0.0129987,0.0056101,0.0017304,0.0025076,0.0017 241,0.0010316,-0.0027177,0.0015835,-0.0036127,-0.0018468,0.0062722,0.0024823,-0.0025101,0.0013127,0.0026785,0.0013747,0.0025165, 0.0016215,5.82e-05,0.0068924,0.0002316
German:Dutch,0.0111359,0.0129297,0.0162,0.0142875, 0.01315,0.0059609,0.0027844,0.0035016,0.0017484,0. 0001797,-0.0039688,0.0030609,-0.0058578,-0.006425,0.0128531,0.0040312,-0.0063,0.001,0.0033969,0.00225,0.0037594,0.0023188 ,0.0002172,0.0127422,-0.0004109
Balkan:Albanian,0.0103833,0.0139583,0.004125,-0.0049167,0.008175,-0.0026583,0.0014333,0.0007833,0.000325,0.00885,0.0 006833,0.0010333,-0.004775,0.0048,-0.0142167,-0.0031333,0.0062333,0.0011833,0.0066,-0.00475,-0.0044583,0.0005833,0.0019667,0.001825,-0.0021083
Balkan:Macedonian:Central,0.0107,0.0148,0.0045,-0.0011,0.0065,-0.0018,0.0031,0.0015,0.0009,0.005,-0.0054,-0.0011,-0.0031,0.0001,-0.0098,-0.0006,0.0073,-0.0025,0.0018,-0.0069,-0.0082,0.0003,0.0089,0.0022,-0.006
Scandinavian:Swedish,0.0117667,0.0126333,0.0191095 ,0.0174333,0.0132905,0.0076857,0.0030048,0.0040286 ,0.0024,-0.003619,-0.0029571,0.0010095,-0.0031286,-0.0027857,0.0110524,0.0030286,-0.0055476,0.001581,0.0027714,0.0039,0.0056714,0.00 18429,0.0009143,0.0088476,-0.0008143
Scandinavian:Norwegian,0.0117571,0.0126,0.0180143, 0.0165429,0.0125571,0.0075429,0.0017857,0.0027286, 0.0028,0.0002143,-0.0023,0.0024571,-0.0050571,-0.0085,0.0155286,0.0070857,-0.0041571,0.0020571,0.0005429,6e-04,0.0045143,0.0045,0.0034714,0.0147143,0.0009143
Italian:_Tuscany,0.01042,0.0146467,0.0036067,-0.0063467,0.0085,-0.0032467,-2e-04,-6e-04,0.0036667,0.0131133,-0.00014,0.00364,-0.00798,-0.00334,-0.0017533,-0.00022,0.0030933,0.00038,0.00306,-0.0019133,-0.0009667,0.0019933,-0.0008467,0.00322,-0.0013267
Italian:_Lazio,0.010075,0.015025,0.001775,-0.01085,0.006925,-0.00415,0.00105,0.000225,0.00335,0.012875,8e-04,0.0019,-0.00515,-0.00515,-0.00505,0.003125,-0.000175,-4e-04,0.00145,-0.00405,-0.0022,0.002725,-3e-04,-3e-04,-4e-04
Italian:_Liguria,0.01,0.0144,0.0072,-0.0037,0.0095,-8e-04,0.001,5e-04,0.0047,0.0139,-0.006,0.0019,-0.0088,8e-04,-8e-04,-0.0094,-0.0051,-3e-04,0.003,6e-04,-2e-04,8e-04,0.0032,6e-04,5e-04
Levant:Palestinian_Beit_Sahour,0.0077,0.01445,-0.01435,-0.0263,-0.0051,-0.0083,-0.0023,-0.0022,0.00575,0.00565,0.0021,-0.00385,0.00735,-0.0038,-0.0036,0.0109,0.00755,0.00155,-1e-04,-9e-04,-0.00135,0.00315,0.00285,0.00445,0.0028

Shadogowah
02-03-2021, 10:38 AM
All the Iberian modern references, all the Berber references and a representative collection of main European ethnicities/nationalities.

UNSCALED




Spanish&Portuguese:_Alacant,0.0099667,0.0144333,0.0098667, 8.33e-05,0.0134333,-0.001,-0.0021833,0.0007667,0.0114833,0.0171833,-0.0031333,0.0056833,-0.0104167,-0.0085833,0.0077,0.0024667,-0.0011833,8.33e-05,-0.0032167,-0.00445,0.0032333,-0.0003333,-0.0034,-0.0014167,0.0026167
Spanish&Portuguese:_Andalucia,0.0095,0.0143842,0.0094684,-0.0010632,0.0147053,-0.0021,-0.0008211,0.0011526,0.0120842,0.0171,-0.0013263,0.0048526,-0.0088842,-0.0082895,0.0075474,-0.0018842,-0.0047368,-0.0008684,-0.0033895,-0.0017053,0.0023474,-0.0010526,-0.0016,-0.0044263,0.0015737
Spanish&Portuguese:_Aragon,0.0105,0.014425,0.010975,-1e-04,0.015225,-5e-05,-0.000225,0.001275,0.012175,0.02025,-0.001325,0.006875,-0.011875,-0.009325,0.0094,-0.0021,-0.00365,-0.000625,-0.001775,8e-04,0.002775,7.5e-05,-0.00095,-0.000875,-2e-04
Spanish&Portuguese:_Asturias,0.0097,0.0142,0.0121,2e-04,0.0168,-0.0026,-0.0031,0.003,0.0127,0.0172,-0.002,0.0054,-0.0128,-0.0066,0.0106,-0.0101,-0.0122,0.001,-0.0043,-7e-04,0.0055,-0.0049,-0.0013,0.0011,0.0054
Spanish&Portuguese:_Baleares,0.0102,0.0144667,0.0107667,-0.0008667,0.0132333,-8e-04,-0.0002333,0.0010667,0.0094,0.0160667,-0.0028,0.0053,-0.0101,-0.0091667,0.0029,0.0017,0.0015333,0.0008333,9e-04,-0.0035,0.0004333,5e-04,0.001,0.0002667,-0.0034333
Spanish&Portuguese:_Barcelones,0.01048,0.01468,0.01212,0.0 0144,0.01492,0.0012,0.00138,0.00158,0.0102,0.01626 ,-0.00256,0.0047,-0.00964,-0.0067,0.00572,-0.00032,-0.00468,-8e-05,0.00188,-0.00282,0.00286,-4e-05,-0.00324,-0.00302,0.00128
Spanish&Portuguese:_Camp_de_Tarragona,0.0104625,0.014225,0 .0111875,0.00065,0.0143625,-0.0002375,-0.0009375,0.000625,0.0099125,0.0152875,0.001,0.004 ,-0.0087625,-0.0096,0.0056125,0.001875,-0.0013375,0.0008625,-0.0006375,0.0002625,0.00125,0.0021125,-0.0007625,-0.004075,-0.0006125
Spanish&Portuguese:_Canarias,0.0071421,0.0143474,0.0080263 ,-0.0039947,0.0122947,-0.0022316,-0.0027632,0.0003526,0.0154526,0.0159421,-0.0003053,0.0035105,-0.0048263,-0.0098947,0.0081211,-0.0016579,-0.0021,-0.0027526,-0.0086263,0.0007895,0.0004842,-0.0052,0.0013316,-0.0028368,0.0014211
Spanish&Portuguese:_Cantabria,0.0105,0.0145333,0.0117667,0 .0018333,0.0152,-0.0021333,-0.0002333,0.0008333,0.0115333,0.0190667,-0.0034667,0.0057667,-0.0125333,-0.0122667,0.0067,0.0012333,-0.0027,0.001,-0.0043,-0.0038333,0.0022333,6e-04,-0.0048333,-0.0014667,0.0005667
Spanish&Portuguese:_Castello,0.0105714,0.0144,0.0115286,0. 0003571,0.0147143,-0.0005571,-5e-04,0.0005143,0.0117429,0.0191143,-0.0034571,0.0045714,-0.0107429,-0.0109857,0.0058,0.0035429,0.0021143,0.0011,-7e-04,-0.0002143,0.0046286,0.0003286,-0.0052,-0.0018,0.0004714
Spanish&Portuguese:_Castilla_La_Mancha,0.01015,0.014575,0. 0107,-0.001,0.013675,-0.001725,-0.000725,0.00075,0.01205,0.018625,-0.0013,0.0058,-0.010275,-0.009,0.007575,-8e-04,-0.004625,-0.00015,-1e-04,-0.00055,0.004375,0.0012,-0.00085,-0.003225,-9e-04
Spanish&Portuguese:_Castilla_Y_Leon,0.0094667,0.0141667,0. 0107333,-0.0006667,0.0142333,0.0006667,-0.0007333,0.002,0.0139,0.0160333,-0.0014333,0.0052333,-0.0081333,-0.0087333,0.0090333,-0.0049333,-0.0052,-0.0013667,-0.0036,-0.0018333,0.0002333,-0.0007333,0.0010667,-0.0021333,-0.0023
Spanish&Portuguese:_Cataluna,0.0100667,0.0144,0.0121667,0. 0007333,0.0153333,0,-0.0008667,0.0010333,0.0109333,0.0167333,-0.0011667,0.0057333,-0.0107667,-0.0077333,0.0065333,0.0012,-5e-04,-0.0013,-9e-04,-0.0007667,0.0049667,-0.0046333,-0.0031667,-0.0016,8e-04
Spanish&Portuguese:_Catalunya_Central,0.0109222,0.0147,0.0 117,0.0006556,0.0151667,0.0005889,-7.78e-05,0.0004222,0.0103222,0.0159,-0.0017778,0.0042889,-0.0100667,-0.0090111,0.0055778,0.0037556,0.0002444,0.0010444,-0.0006444,-0.0011222,0.0023556,0.0013444,-0.0005444,-0.0021778,-6e-04
Spanish&Portuguese:_Eivissa,0.0102077,0.0144462,0.0099846,-0.0012462,0.0129077,-0.0012231,0.0001154,0.0013615,0.0101,0.0164154,-0.0015538,0.0049538,-0.0082231,-0.0062154,0.0065,0.0007308,-0.0028231,-0.0023077,-0.0018923,-0.0031846,0.0026077,0.0014692,-0.0014154,-0.0001538,-0.0012308
Spanish&Portuguese:_Extremadura,0.0092333,0.0147667,0.0087 667,-0.0003667,0.0133,-0.001,-0.0017,-0.0004333,0.0120667,0.0171333,-8e-04,0.0033667,-0.0071333,-0.0089,0.0055667,0.0019667,-0.0018,-0.0026,-0.0051,0.0003333,0.0017,-0.0038333,-0.0012,-0.0023,0.0012
Spanish&Portuguese:_Galicia,0.0095556,0.0144222,0.0108889,-0.0005111,0.0133889,-3.33e-05,-0.0023222,0.00105,0.0120833,0.0164778,-0.0013111,0.0038278,-0.0084833,-0.0088333,0.0082111,0.0004444,-0.00325,-0.0017056,-0.0040111,-0.0008056,7e-04,-0.0023444,-0.0006556,-0.0030556,0.0010889
Spanish&Portuguese:_Girona,0.01066,0.01437,0.01111,0.00102 ,0.01338,0.00058,-0.00019,0.00146,0.00977,0.01695,-0.00127,0.00592,-0.00905,-0.0098,0.00558,0.0023,0.00157,-0.00049,0.00133,-0.00218,0.00227,-0.00081,-0.00028,0.00011,-0.00138
Spanish&Portuguese:_La_Rioja,0.0107,0.015,0.0124,-0.0026,0.0175,-0.0038,-8e-04,0.001,0.0135,0.0213,-0.0033,0.0038,-0.0114,-0.0108,0.0049,0.0103,0.0081,-0.0019,-5e-04,4e-04,0.0104,0.0019,-0.0018,-0.0078,7e-04
Spanish&Portuguese:_Lleida,0.0107333,0.0144556,0.0114,0.00 06333,0.0143778,-0.0005444,0.0002778,0.0009111,0.0110444,0.0163556,-0.0005667,0.0059667,-0.0110333,-0.0099222,0.0061889,0.0001778,-0.0010889,0.0005111,0.001,-0.0007222,0.0059222,0.0002667,-0.0013778,-0.0006556,-0.0005333
Spanish&Portuguese:_Mallorca,0.0103333,0.0145667,0.0103222 ,0.0003333,0.0128,-0.0004889,0.0001667,0.0013333,0.0085111,0.0153333,-0.0018667,0.0041889,-0.0104667,-0.0061111,0.0047444,0.0019,0.0010444,0.0011556,-7e-04,-0.0010778,0.0007778,0.0006111,-0.0014222,0.0001667,-2e-04
Spanish&Portuguese:_Menorca,0.0101667,0.0145333,0.0097667,-0.0018667,0.0139,-6e-04,6e-04,6.67e-05,0.0106,0.0161,-0.0013667,0.0062,-0.0097,-0.0052667,0.0023667,-0.0021667,-0.0021667,0.0011,-7e-04,-0.0014333,0.0026333,0.0015667,0.0008667,-0.0055,-0.0049
Spanish&Portuguese:_Murcia,0.0096,0.014075,0.01005,-0.0018,0.014775,-0.00075,-0.002125,-0.00145,0.01235,0.017675,-0.0021,0.002275,-0.008325,-0.00785,0.003475,-0.001075,0.000775,0.000675,-5e-05,8e-04,0.004025,-0.002375,-0.00055,-0.0025,0.00165
Spanish&Portuguese:_Navarra,0.0105,0.0144,0.0117333,-0.0002333,0.0158333,-0.0004333,-0.0013667,-0.0006333,0.0122,0.0212333,-0.0030667,0.0076667,-0.0102667,-0.0123667,0.0115333,0.0021333,-0.0067,0.0008667,-0.0019667,-0.0020333,0.0037333,0.0020667,-0.0056333,3.33e-05,0.0039667
Spanish&Portuguese:_Pais_Vasco,0.0112667,0.0149333,0.01493 33,0.0025,0.0169333,0.0008667,1e-04,0.0012667,0.0135667,0.0218667,-0.0036333,0.0062333,-0.0141667,-0.0087667,0.0135667,-0.0018667,-0.0094667,0.0022667,0.0017667,-0.0052667,0.0062,-0.0019667,-0.0053,-0.0056,0.0030667
Spanish&Portuguese:Basque_Spanish,0.0115889,0.0148111,0.01 54556,0.0027889,0.0187111,4.44e-05,-0.0014111,0.0001778,0.0153333,0.0250222,-0.0027889,0.0077444,-0.0153222,-0.0136333,0.0132222,0.0028111,-0.0044556,0.0021889,-0.0014444,-5.56e-05,0.0070444,0.0020111,-0.0055889,-0.0075,0.0018889
Spanish&Portuguese:_Penedes,0.0107,0.0143636,0.0108364,0.0 014636,0.0136636,0.0006636,-0.0010273,0.0003455,0.0090091,0.0154909,-0.0008364,0.0036,-0.0108545,-0.0100636,0.0074182,0.0010727,0.0014727,0.0015182, 8.18e-05,-9e-04,0.0013818,-0.0005182,-0.0022455,-0.0013909,0.0003545
Spanish&Portuguese:_Peri-Barcelona,0.01065,0.01474,0.01096,0.00047,0.01449, 9e-05,0.00023,0.00058,0.01049,0.01648,-0.00107,0.00467,-0.00923,-0.00898,0.0054,0.00095,6e-05,-2e-04,-0.00059,-0.00109,0.00217,0.00067,-0.00119,-0.00035,0.00191
Spanish&Portuguese:_Pirineu,0.0107167,0.0144333,0.0113167, 8e-04,0.0146167,-3e-04,-0.0003667,0.0019,0.0124167,0.0188333,-0.0014167,0.0064167,-0.00995,-0.00905,0.0051833,0.0003333,-0.0011,3e-04,-0.0035333,-0.0012833,0.0029667,-5e-04,-0.0023,-0.00535,0.0015167
Spanish&Portuguese:_Soria,0.0107,0.014,0.01325,0.00235,0.0 1545,0.00045,-0.00125,-0.00055,0.0101,0.02055,-0.00645,0.0076,-0.0117,-0.0166,0.0084,0.01095,0.0104,-0.0023,-0.00325,-0.00055,-0.00025,-0.00115,-0.00305,-0.0049,-0.00175
Spanish&Portuguese:_Terres_de_l'Ebre,0.01072,0.01446,0.010 98,-0.00054,0.01392,-0.00158,-6e-05,0.00196,0.00918,0.01808,-0.00202,0.00522,-0.01118,-0.00808,0.0071,-0.00256,-0.00406,-0.00054,0.00032,0.00026,0.00232,6e-04,-0.0029,-0.00448,-0.00108
Spanish&Portuguese:_Valencia,0.0103667,0.0142417,0.0108333 ,-0.000275,0.0151,-0.0005167,-0.00085,0.0007083,0.011325,0.01825,-0.00185,0.0055583,-0.00865,-0.0089667,0.007075,-0.0006417,-0.0036,-0.0013583,-0.0009833,-0.0007333,0.0044667,-0.0011083,-0.0016583,-0.0042667,0.0017167
Spanish&Portuguese:Portuguese,0.009328,0.01424,0.009548,-0.001372,0.013692,-0.001452,-0.001592,0.001196,0.012516,0.01632,-0.000452,0.004952,-0.008568,-0.008184,0.009252,-3e-04,-0.000868,-7e-04,-0.004584,-0.000196,0.000912,-0.00208,0.001056,-0.00094,-8.8e-05
British_Isles:Irish,0.0117165,0.0132047,0.01622,0. 0151282,0.0122788,0.0069388,0.0014012,0.0020424,0. 0017447,0.0016059,-0.0042929,0.0038965,-0.0095447,-0.0102282,0.0191094,0.0039329,-0.0085482,0.0014953,0.0004753,0.00142,0.0040988,0. 0010341,0.0002376,0.0119565,0.0005518
British_Isles:English,0.0115842,0.0134947,0.016384 2,0.0136263,0.0127474,0.0060053,0.0021211,0.002489 5,0.0025737,0.0031158,-0.0029368,0.0037474,-0.0084684,-0.0075211,0.0151895,0.0026789,-0.0079526,0.0032316,0.0029316,0.0023684,0.0047579, 0.0027526,-0.0026526,0.0114474,2.63e-05
British_Isles:Scottish,0.01155,0.0132179,0.0165107 ,0.0145643,0.0127071,0.0061964,0.0015107,0.0022429 ,0.0017464,0.00155,-0.0034571,0.0033679,-0.0078571,-0.0087,0.0169643,0.0023571,-0.0086321,0.0021893,0.0020286,0.0011607,0.0033857, 0.002675,-0.0005321,0.01125,-0.0006429
British_Isles:English_Cornwall,0.0114385,0.0137615 ,0.0162692,0.0133692,0.0136154,0.0058846,0.0014615 ,0.0027692,0.0031692,0.0038231,-0.0028538,0.0043231,-0.0092462,-0.0074462,0.0152923,0.0023923,-0.0096077,0.0016692,0.0029923,0.0025923,0.0038538, 0.0031308,-0.0006154,0.0119231,0.0005769
Berber:Berber_Algeria,-0.0258,0.010355,0.00053,-0.012405,0.004695,-0.004425,-0.015605,0.009125,0.01317,0.011815,0.003545,-0.00302,0.01434,-0.0054,0.00842,-0.00666,0.002395,-0.008745,-0.01834,0.00399,-0.0059,-0.01588,0.00988,-3e-04,0.002215
Berber:Berber_MAR_ERR,-0.0081143,0.0128929,-0.0008714,-0.0220429,0.0083357,-0.01165,-0.0132857,0.0043786,0.0329286,0.0164214,0.0060643,-0.0039857,0.0145714,-0.0117286,0.0148786,-0.0106643,-0.0045857,-0.0168643,-0.0367,0.0075786,-0.0131857,-0.0336643,0.0201286,-0.0017143,0.0044857
Berber:Berber_MAR_TIZ,-0.0090071,0.0129643,-0.0006143,-0.0235143,0.0100929,-0.0127857,-0.0142571,0.0052071,0.0374786,0.0173214,0.0054286,-0.0061786,0.0166357,-0.0148357,0.0149929,-0.0118571,8.57e-05,-0.0227571,-0.0425,0.0095286,-0.0166857,-0.0413357,0.0249429,-0.0043071,0.0062357
Berber:Berber_Tunisia_Chen,-0.0024556,0.0136944,-0.0021444,-0.0236778,0.0090111,-0.0126222,-0.0133556,0.0022889,0.0334556,0.01635,0.0024667,-0.0029278,0.0132056,-0.0117167,0.0103833,-0.01275,0.0001167,-0.0183833,-0.0371722,0.0062833,-0.0134889,-0.0326944,0.0228278,-0.0036944,0.0053167
Berber:Berber_Tunisia_Sen,-0.0034353,0.0132706,-0.0050294,-0.0241176,0.0061118,-0.0127529,-0.0092176,0.0025412,0.0282059,0.0112824,0.0034765,-0.0081647,0.0177059,-0.0068353,0.0091941,-0.0037765,-0.0043647,-0.0103941,-0.0241353,0.0092118,-0.0068235,-0.0195588,0.0121706,-4.12e-05,0.0004588
Berber:Tunisian_Berber_Matmata,-0.0045571,0.0130714,-0.0027286,-0.0229214,0.0073929,-0.0119214,-0.0106071,0.0021571,0.0282786,0.0153786,0.0033,-0.0038071,0.0143,-0.0105071,0.0095286,-0.0077643,0.00015,-0.0126357,-0.0285357,0.0059714,-0.00915,-0.0244929,0.0166143,-0.0016214,0.003
Berber:Tunisian_Berber_Tamezret,-0.00303,0.01328,-0.00248,-0.02414,0.00868,-0.01264,-0.01096,0.00331,0.02962,0.01652,0.00343,-0.0051,0.0135,-0.01236,0.01022,-0.00812,0.00143,-0.01669,-0.03181,0.00791,-0.00868,-0.02783,0.0194,-0.00239,0.00567
Berber:Tunisian_Berber_Zraoua,-0.0025267,0.0135267,-0.0034733,-0.0242267,0.0075533,-0.01174,-0.01242,0.00192,0.0306933,0.0158067,0.0038467,-0.00538,0.0150867,-0.0090667,0.01086,-0.0097133,-0.00514,-0.0139333,-0.03062,0.0067133,-0.0099733,-0.0242333,0.0180067,-0.00202,0.00254
Slav:Belarusian,0.01162,0.0121733,0.0198933,0.0215 467,0.0130733,0.0095267,0.0045667,0.0057733,-0.0001333,-0.0135,-0.00166,-0.0061467,0.013,0.0197867,-0.0083,-0.0028667,-0.00074,0.0002933,0.0032933,-0.00084,-0.0033933,-0.0037267,0.0062667,-0.0056933,0.00058
Slav:Ukrainian,0.0115027,0.0122189,0.0181243,0.017 8189,0.0122459,0.0076351,0.0037297,0.0049,-0.0014135,-0.0115784,-0.0010054,-0.0051108,0.0103297,0.0157189,-0.0082784,-0.000827,0.0035973,-0.0005514,0.0020676,0.0013595,-0.0036054,-0.0028135,0.0054676,-0.0033676,0.0006027
German:German,0.0114443,0.0135278,0.0153747,0.0119 835,0.0129987,0.0056101,0.0017304,0.0025076,0.0017 241,0.0010316,-0.0027177,0.0015835,-0.0036127,-0.0018468,0.0062722,0.0024823,-0.0025101,0.0013127,0.0026785,0.0013747,0.0025165, 0.0016215,5.82e-05,0.0068924,0.0002316
German:Dutch,0.0111359,0.0129297,0.0162,0.0142875, 0.01315,0.0059609,0.0027844,0.0035016,0.0017484,0. 0001797,-0.0039688,0.0030609,-0.0058578,-0.006425,0.0128531,0.0040312,-0.0063,0.001,0.0033969,0.00225,0.0037594,0.0023188 ,0.0002172,0.0127422,-0.0004109
Balkan:Albanian,0.0103833,0.0139583,0.004125,-0.0049167,0.008175,-0.0026583,0.0014333,0.0007833,0.000325,0.00885,0.0 006833,0.0010333,-0.004775,0.0048,-0.0142167,-0.0031333,0.0062333,0.0011833,0.0066,-0.00475,-0.0044583,0.0005833,0.0019667,0.001825,-0.0021083
Balkan:Macedonian:Central,0.0107,0.0148,0.0045,-0.0011,0.0065,-0.0018,0.0031,0.0015,0.0009,0.005,-0.0054,-0.0011,-0.0031,0.0001,-0.0098,-0.0006,0.0073,-0.0025,0.0018,-0.0069,-0.0082,0.0003,0.0089,0.0022,-0.006
Scandinavian:Swedish,0.0117667,0.0126333,0.0191095 ,0.0174333,0.0132905,0.0076857,0.0030048,0.0040286 ,0.0024,-0.003619,-0.0029571,0.0010095,-0.0031286,-0.0027857,0.0110524,0.0030286,-0.0055476,0.001581,0.0027714,0.0039,0.0056714,0.00 18429,0.0009143,0.0088476,-0.0008143
Scandinavian:Norwegian,0.0117571,0.0126,0.0180143, 0.0165429,0.0125571,0.0075429,0.0017857,0.0027286, 0.0028,0.0002143,-0.0023,0.0024571,-0.0050571,-0.0085,0.0155286,0.0070857,-0.0041571,0.0020571,0.0005429,6e-04,0.0045143,0.0045,0.0034714,0.0147143,0.0009143
Italian:_Tuscany,0.01042,0.0146467,0.0036067,-0.0063467,0.0085,-0.0032467,-2e-04,-6e-04,0.0036667,0.0131133,-0.00014,0.00364,-0.00798,-0.00334,-0.0017533,-0.00022,0.0030933,0.00038,0.00306,-0.0019133,-0.0009667,0.0019933,-0.0008467,0.00322,-0.0013267
Italian:_Lazio,0.010075,0.015025,0.001775,-0.01085,0.006925,-0.00415,0.00105,0.000225,0.00335,0.012875,8e-04,0.0019,-0.00515,-0.00515,-0.00505,0.003125,-0.000175,-4e-04,0.00145,-0.00405,-0.0022,0.002725,-3e-04,-3e-04,-4e-04
Italian:_Liguria,0.01,0.0144,0.0072,-0.0037,0.0095,-8e-04,0.001,5e-04,0.0047,0.0139,-0.006,0.0019,-0.0088,8e-04,-8e-04,-0.0094,-0.0051,-3e-04,0.003,6e-04,-2e-04,8e-04,0.0032,6e-04,5e-04
Levant:Palestinian_Beit_Sahour,0.0077,0.01445,-0.01435,-0.0263,-0.0051,-0.0083,-0.0023,-0.0022,0.00575,0.00565,0.0021,-0.00385,0.00735,-0.0038,-0.0036,0.0109,0.00755,0.00155,-1e-04,-9e-04,-0.00135,0.00315,0.00285,0.00445,0.0028



Target: Shadogowah
Distance: 0.8784% / 0.00878391
89.0 Spanish&Portuguese
10.2 Berber
0.8 Scandinavian


43022
- Men of the West!



Distance to: Shadogowah
0.01037377 Spanish&Portuguese : Portuguese
0.01147866 Spanish&Portuguese:_Galicia
0.01298331 Spanish&Portuguese:_Extremadura
0.01305365 Spanish&Portuguese:_Castilla_Y_Leon
0.01316013 Spanish&Portuguese:_Andalucia
0.01330079 Spanish&Portuguese:_Eivissa
0.01338357 Spanish&Portuguese:_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.01352495 Spanish&Portuguese:_Aragon
0.01358545 Spanish&Portuguese:_Peri-Barcelona
0.01376682 Spanish&Portuguese:_Canarias
0.01380946 Spanish&Portuguese:_Pirineu
0.01416793 Spanish&Portuguese:_Catalunya_Central
0.01428026 Spanish&Portuguese:_Valencia
0.01432258 Spanish&Portuguese:_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.01476092 Spanish&Portuguese:_Alacant
0.01483453 Spanish&Portuguese:_Girona
0.01510424 Spanish&Portuguese:_Mallorca
0.01511762 Spanish&Portuguese:_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.01525429 Spanish&Portuguese:_Penedes
0.01579314 Spanish&Portuguese:_Baleares
0.01585976 Spanish&Portuguese:_Cantabria
0.01631101 Spanish&Portuguese:_Castello
0.01639444 Spanish&Portuguese:_Murcia
0.01657626 Spanish&Portuguese:_Lleida
0.01676367 Spanish&Portuguese:_Cataluna

rober_tce
02-03-2021, 11:37 AM
Target: Roberto
Distance: 0.6502% / 0.00650215
38.2 Spanish&Portuguese:_Navarra
21.6 Spanish&Portuguese:Basque_Spanish
20.0 Spanish&Portuguese:_Soria
7.4 Levant: Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
6.4 British_Isles:Irish
3.4 Spanish&Portuguese:_Cantabria
3.0 Berber:Berber_Tunisia_Sen

Target: Roberto
Distance: 0.6502% / 0.00650215
83.2 Spanish&Portuguese
7.4 Levant
6.4 British_Isles
3.0 Berber

Distancias:

Distance to: Roberto
0.01018639 Spanish&Portuguese:_Navarra
0.01040817 Spanish&Portuguese:_Cantabria
0.01071662 Spanish&Portuguese:_Alacant
0.01110451 Spanish&Portuguese:_Castello
0.01264741 Spanish&Portuguese:_Catalunya_Central
0.01297530 Spanish&Portuguese:_Peri-Barcelona
0.01316887 Spanish&Portuguese:_Penedes
0.01317803 Spanish&Portuguese:_Pirineu
0.01318112 Spanish&Portuguese:_Galicia
0.01362173 Spanish&Portuguese:_Valencia
0.01364769 Spanish&Portuguese:_Aragon
0.01364808 Spanish&Portuguese:_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.01375984 Spanish&Portuguese: Portuguese
0.01379153 Spanish&Portuguese:_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.01388959 Spanish&Portuguese:_Lleida
0.01391863 Spanish&Portuguese:_Andalucia
0.01410756 Spanish&Portuguese:_Extremadura
0.01464591 Spanish&Portuguese:_Cataluna
0.01498497 Spanish&Portuguese:_Girona
0.01530255 Spanish&Portuguese:_Eivissa
0.01535940 Spanish&Portuguese:_Mallorca
0.01568733 Spanish&Portuguese:_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.01628922 Spanish&Portuguese:_Barcelones
0.01630238 Spanish&Portuguese:_Murcia
0.01636042 Spanish&Portuguese:Basque_Spanish
0.01699806 Spanish&Portuguese:_Baleares
0.01765511 Spanish&Portuguese:_Castilla_Y_Leon
0.01826536 Spanish&Portuguese:_Canarias
0.01830895 Spanish&Portuguese:_Soria
0.01905702 Spanish&Portuguese:_La_Rioja
0.01975511 Spanish&Portuguese:_Pais_Vasco
0.02018428 Spanish&Portuguese:_Menorca
0.02349255 Spanish&Portuguese:_Asturias
0.02718979 Italian:_Tuscany
0.02997146 Italian:_Lazio
0.03078766 Italian:_Liguria
0.03192547 British_Isles:English_Cornwall
0.03217935 British_Isles:English
0.03313249 German:German
0.03369665 British_Isles:Scottish
0.03402358 British_Isles:Irish
0.03496444 German: Dutch
0.03687589 Scandinavian:Norwegian
0.03990824 Scandinavian:Swedish
0.04268583 Balkan:Macedonian:Central
0.04316701 Balkan:Albanian
0.05388924 Levant: Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
0.06163858 Slav:Ukrainian
0.06228600 Berber:Berber_Algeria
0.06456357 Berber:Berber_Tunisia_Sen
0.06667579 Berber:Tunisian_Berber_Matmata
0.06772699 Slav:Belarusian
0.07040067 Berber:Tunisian_Berber_Zraoua
0.07159632 Berber:Tunisian_Berber_Tamezret
0.07944754 Berber:Berber_MAR_ERR
0.07961838 Berber:Berber_Tunisia_Chen
0.09225383 Berber:Berber_MAR_TIZ

Definitivamente en cuanto las muestras ibéricas, mis linajes navarros tienen muchísimo peso en mi genética.

JJJ
02-03-2021, 11:39 AM
All the Iberian modern references, all the Berber references and a representative collection of main European ethnicities/nationalities.

UNSCALED




Spanish&Portuguese:_Alacant,0.0099667,0.0144333,0.0098667, 8.33e-05,0.0134333,-0.001,-0.0021833,0.0007667,0.0114833,0.0171833,-0.0031333,0.0056833,-0.0104167,-0.0085833,0.0077,0.0024667,-0.0011833,8.33e-05,-0.0032167,-0.00445,0.0032333,-0.0003333,-0.0034,-0.0014167,0.0026167
Spanish&Portuguese:_Andalucia,0.0095,0.0143842,0.0094684,-0.0010632,0.0147053,-0.0021,-0.0008211,0.0011526,0.0120842,0.0171,-0.0013263,0.0048526,-0.0088842,-0.0082895,0.0075474,-0.0018842,-0.0047368,-0.0008684,-0.0033895,-0.0017053,0.0023474,-0.0010526,-0.0016,-0.0044263,0.0015737
Spanish&Portuguese:_Aragon,0.0105,0.014425,0.010975,-1e-04,0.015225,-5e-05,-0.000225,0.001275,0.012175,0.02025,-0.001325,0.006875,-0.011875,-0.009325,0.0094,-0.0021,-0.00365,-0.000625,-0.001775,8e-04,0.002775,7.5e-05,-0.00095,-0.000875,-2e-04
Spanish&Portuguese:_Asturias,0.0097,0.0142,0.0121,2e-04,0.0168,-0.0026,-0.0031,0.003,0.0127,0.0172,-0.002,0.0054,-0.0128,-0.0066,0.0106,-0.0101,-0.0122,0.001,-0.0043,-7e-04,0.0055,-0.0049,-0.0013,0.0011,0.0054
Spanish&Portuguese:_Baleares,0.0102,0.0144667,0.0107667,-0.0008667,0.0132333,-8e-04,-0.0002333,0.0010667,0.0094,0.0160667,-0.0028,0.0053,-0.0101,-0.0091667,0.0029,0.0017,0.0015333,0.0008333,9e-04,-0.0035,0.0004333,5e-04,0.001,0.0002667,-0.0034333
Spanish&Portuguese:_Barcelones,0.01048,0.01468,0.01212,0.0 0144,0.01492,0.0012,0.00138,0.00158,0.0102,0.01626 ,-0.00256,0.0047,-0.00964,-0.0067,0.00572,-0.00032,-0.00468,-8e-05,0.00188,-0.00282,0.00286,-4e-05,-0.00324,-0.00302,0.00128
Spanish&Portuguese:_Camp_de_Tarragona,0.0104625,0.014225,0 .0111875,0.00065,0.0143625,-0.0002375,-0.0009375,0.000625,0.0099125,0.0152875,0.001,0.004 ,-0.0087625,-0.0096,0.0056125,0.001875,-0.0013375,0.0008625,-0.0006375,0.0002625,0.00125,0.0021125,-0.0007625,-0.004075,-0.0006125
Spanish&Portuguese:_Canarias,0.0071421,0.0143474,0.0080263 ,-0.0039947,0.0122947,-0.0022316,-0.0027632,0.0003526,0.0154526,0.0159421,-0.0003053,0.0035105,-0.0048263,-0.0098947,0.0081211,-0.0016579,-0.0021,-0.0027526,-0.0086263,0.0007895,0.0004842,-0.0052,0.0013316,-0.0028368,0.0014211
Spanish&Portuguese:_Cantabria,0.0105,0.0145333,0.0117667,0 .0018333,0.0152,-0.0021333,-0.0002333,0.0008333,0.0115333,0.0190667,-0.0034667,0.0057667,-0.0125333,-0.0122667,0.0067,0.0012333,-0.0027,0.001,-0.0043,-0.0038333,0.0022333,6e-04,-0.0048333,-0.0014667,0.0005667
Spanish&Portuguese:_Castello,0.0105714,0.0144,0.0115286,0. 0003571,0.0147143,-0.0005571,-5e-04,0.0005143,0.0117429,0.0191143,-0.0034571,0.0045714,-0.0107429,-0.0109857,0.0058,0.0035429,0.0021143,0.0011,-7e-04,-0.0002143,0.0046286,0.0003286,-0.0052,-0.0018,0.0004714
Spanish&Portuguese:_Castilla_La_Mancha,0.01015,0.014575,0. 0107,-0.001,0.013675,-0.001725,-0.000725,0.00075,0.01205,0.018625,-0.0013,0.0058,-0.010275,-0.009,0.007575,-8e-04,-0.004625,-0.00015,-1e-04,-0.00055,0.004375,0.0012,-0.00085,-0.003225,-9e-04
Spanish&Portuguese:_Castilla_Y_Leon,0.0094667,0.0141667,0. 0107333,-0.0006667,0.0142333,0.0006667,-0.0007333,0.002,0.0139,0.0160333,-0.0014333,0.0052333,-0.0081333,-0.0087333,0.0090333,-0.0049333,-0.0052,-0.0013667,-0.0036,-0.0018333,0.0002333,-0.0007333,0.0010667,-0.0021333,-0.0023
Spanish&Portuguese:_Cataluna,0.0100667,0.0144,0.0121667,0. 0007333,0.0153333,0,-0.0008667,0.0010333,0.0109333,0.0167333,-0.0011667,0.0057333,-0.0107667,-0.0077333,0.0065333,0.0012,-5e-04,-0.0013,-9e-04,-0.0007667,0.0049667,-0.0046333,-0.0031667,-0.0016,8e-04
Spanish&Portuguese:_Catalunya_Central,0.0109222,0.0147,0.0 117,0.0006556,0.0151667,0.0005889,-7.78e-05,0.0004222,0.0103222,0.0159,-0.0017778,0.0042889,-0.0100667,-0.0090111,0.0055778,0.0037556,0.0002444,0.0010444,-0.0006444,-0.0011222,0.0023556,0.0013444,-0.0005444,-0.0021778,-6e-04
Spanish&Portuguese:_Eivissa,0.0102077,0.0144462,0.0099846,-0.0012462,0.0129077,-0.0012231,0.0001154,0.0013615,0.0101,0.0164154,-0.0015538,0.0049538,-0.0082231,-0.0062154,0.0065,0.0007308,-0.0028231,-0.0023077,-0.0018923,-0.0031846,0.0026077,0.0014692,-0.0014154,-0.0001538,-0.0012308
Spanish&Portuguese:_Extremadura,0.0092333,0.0147667,0.0087 667,-0.0003667,0.0133,-0.001,-0.0017,-0.0004333,0.0120667,0.0171333,-8e-04,0.0033667,-0.0071333,-0.0089,0.0055667,0.0019667,-0.0018,-0.0026,-0.0051,0.0003333,0.0017,-0.0038333,-0.0012,-0.0023,0.0012
Spanish&Portuguese:_Galicia,0.0095556,0.0144222,0.0108889,-0.0005111,0.0133889,-3.33e-05,-0.0023222,0.00105,0.0120833,0.0164778,-0.0013111,0.0038278,-0.0084833,-0.0088333,0.0082111,0.0004444,-0.00325,-0.0017056,-0.0040111,-0.0008056,7e-04,-0.0023444,-0.0006556,-0.0030556,0.0010889
Spanish&Portuguese:_Girona,0.01066,0.01437,0.01111,0.00102 ,0.01338,0.00058,-0.00019,0.00146,0.00977,0.01695,-0.00127,0.00592,-0.00905,-0.0098,0.00558,0.0023,0.00157,-0.00049,0.00133,-0.00218,0.00227,-0.00081,-0.00028,0.00011,-0.00138
Spanish&Portuguese:_La_Rioja,0.0107,0.015,0.0124,-0.0026,0.0175,-0.0038,-8e-04,0.001,0.0135,0.0213,-0.0033,0.0038,-0.0114,-0.0108,0.0049,0.0103,0.0081,-0.0019,-5e-04,4e-04,0.0104,0.0019,-0.0018,-0.0078,7e-04
Spanish&Portuguese:_Lleida,0.0107333,0.0144556,0.0114,0.00 06333,0.0143778,-0.0005444,0.0002778,0.0009111,0.0110444,0.0163556,-0.0005667,0.0059667,-0.0110333,-0.0099222,0.0061889,0.0001778,-0.0010889,0.0005111,0.001,-0.0007222,0.0059222,0.0002667,-0.0013778,-0.0006556,-0.0005333
Spanish&Portuguese:_Mallorca,0.0103333,0.0145667,0.0103222 ,0.0003333,0.0128,-0.0004889,0.0001667,0.0013333,0.0085111,0.0153333,-0.0018667,0.0041889,-0.0104667,-0.0061111,0.0047444,0.0019,0.0010444,0.0011556,-7e-04,-0.0010778,0.0007778,0.0006111,-0.0014222,0.0001667,-2e-04
Spanish&Portuguese:_Menorca,0.0101667,0.0145333,0.0097667,-0.0018667,0.0139,-6e-04,6e-04,6.67e-05,0.0106,0.0161,-0.0013667,0.0062,-0.0097,-0.0052667,0.0023667,-0.0021667,-0.0021667,0.0011,-7e-04,-0.0014333,0.0026333,0.0015667,0.0008667,-0.0055,-0.0049
Spanish&Portuguese:_Murcia,0.0096,0.014075,0.01005,-0.0018,0.014775,-0.00075,-0.002125,-0.00145,0.01235,0.017675,-0.0021,0.002275,-0.008325,-0.00785,0.003475,-0.001075,0.000775,0.000675,-5e-05,8e-04,0.004025,-0.002375,-0.00055,-0.0025,0.00165
Spanish&Portuguese:_Navarra,0.0105,0.0144,0.0117333,-0.0002333,0.0158333,-0.0004333,-0.0013667,-0.0006333,0.0122,0.0212333,-0.0030667,0.0076667,-0.0102667,-0.0123667,0.0115333,0.0021333,-0.0067,0.0008667,-0.0019667,-0.0020333,0.0037333,0.0020667,-0.0056333,3.33e-05,0.0039667
Spanish&Portuguese:_Pais_Vasco,0.0112667,0.0149333,0.01493 33,0.0025,0.0169333,0.0008667,1e-04,0.0012667,0.0135667,0.0218667,-0.0036333,0.0062333,-0.0141667,-0.0087667,0.0135667,-0.0018667,-0.0094667,0.0022667,0.0017667,-0.0052667,0.0062,-0.0019667,-0.0053,-0.0056,0.0030667
Spanish&Portuguese:Basque_Spanish,0.0115889,0.0148111,0.01 54556,0.0027889,0.0187111,4.44e-05,-0.0014111,0.0001778,0.0153333,0.0250222,-0.0027889,0.0077444,-0.0153222,-0.0136333,0.0132222,0.0028111,-0.0044556,0.0021889,-0.0014444,-5.56e-05,0.0070444,0.0020111,-0.0055889,-0.0075,0.0018889
Spanish&Portuguese:_Penedes,0.0107,0.0143636,0.0108364,0.0 014636,0.0136636,0.0006636,-0.0010273,0.0003455,0.0090091,0.0154909,-0.0008364,0.0036,-0.0108545,-0.0100636,0.0074182,0.0010727,0.0014727,0.0015182, 8.18e-05,-9e-04,0.0013818,-0.0005182,-0.0022455,-0.0013909,0.0003545
Spanish&Portuguese:_Peri-Barcelona,0.01065,0.01474,0.01096,0.00047,0.01449, 9e-05,0.00023,0.00058,0.01049,0.01648,-0.00107,0.00467,-0.00923,-0.00898,0.0054,0.00095,6e-05,-2e-04,-0.00059,-0.00109,0.00217,0.00067,-0.00119,-0.00035,0.00191
Spanish&Portuguese:_Pirineu,0.0107167,0.0144333,0.0113167, 8e-04,0.0146167,-3e-04,-0.0003667,0.0019,0.0124167,0.0188333,-0.0014167,0.0064167,-0.00995,-0.00905,0.0051833,0.0003333,-0.0011,3e-04,-0.0035333,-0.0012833,0.0029667,-5e-04,-0.0023,-0.00535,0.0015167
Spanish&Portuguese:_Soria,0.0107,0.014,0.01325,0.00235,0.0 1545,0.00045,-0.00125,-0.00055,0.0101,0.02055,-0.00645,0.0076,-0.0117,-0.0166,0.0084,0.01095,0.0104,-0.0023,-0.00325,-0.00055,-0.00025,-0.00115,-0.00305,-0.0049,-0.00175
Spanish&Portuguese:_Terres_de_l'Ebre,0.01072,0.01446,0.010 98,-0.00054,0.01392,-0.00158,-6e-05,0.00196,0.00918,0.01808,-0.00202,0.00522,-0.01118,-0.00808,0.0071,-0.00256,-0.00406,-0.00054,0.00032,0.00026,0.00232,6e-04,-0.0029,-0.00448,-0.00108
Spanish&Portuguese:_Valencia,0.0103667,0.0142417,0.0108333 ,-0.000275,0.0151,-0.0005167,-0.00085,0.0007083,0.011325,0.01825,-0.00185,0.0055583,-0.00865,-0.0089667,0.007075,-0.0006417,-0.0036,-0.0013583,-0.0009833,-0.0007333,0.0044667,-0.0011083,-0.0016583,-0.0042667,0.0017167
Spanish&Portuguese:Portuguese,0.009328,0.01424,0.009548,-0.001372,0.013692,-0.001452,-0.001592,0.001196,0.012516,0.01632,-0.000452,0.004952,-0.008568,-0.008184,0.009252,-3e-04,-0.000868,-7e-04,-0.004584,-0.000196,0.000912,-0.00208,0.001056,-0.00094,-8.8e-05
British_Isles:Irish,0.0117165,0.0132047,0.01622,0. 0151282,0.0122788,0.0069388,0.0014012,0.0020424,0. 0017447,0.0016059,-0.0042929,0.0038965,-0.0095447,-0.0102282,0.0191094,0.0039329,-0.0085482,0.0014953,0.0004753,0.00142,0.0040988,0. 0010341,0.0002376,0.0119565,0.0005518
British_Isles:English,0.0115842,0.0134947,0.016384 2,0.0136263,0.0127474,0.0060053,0.0021211,0.002489 5,0.0025737,0.0031158,-0.0029368,0.0037474,-0.0084684,-0.0075211,0.0151895,0.0026789,-0.0079526,0.0032316,0.0029316,0.0023684,0.0047579, 0.0027526,-0.0026526,0.0114474,2.63e-05
British_Isles:Scottish,0.01155,0.0132179,0.0165107 ,0.0145643,0.0127071,0.0061964,0.0015107,0.0022429 ,0.0017464,0.00155,-0.0034571,0.0033679,-0.0078571,-0.0087,0.0169643,0.0023571,-0.0086321,0.0021893,0.0020286,0.0011607,0.0033857, 0.002675,-0.0005321,0.01125,-0.0006429
British_Isles:English_Cornwall,0.0114385,0.0137615 ,0.0162692,0.0133692,0.0136154,0.0058846,0.0014615 ,0.0027692,0.0031692,0.0038231,-0.0028538,0.0043231,-0.0092462,-0.0074462,0.0152923,0.0023923,-0.0096077,0.0016692,0.0029923,0.0025923,0.0038538, 0.0031308,-0.0006154,0.0119231,0.0005769
Berber:Berber_Algeria,-0.0258,0.010355,0.00053,-0.012405,0.004695,-0.004425,-0.015605,0.009125,0.01317,0.011815,0.003545,-0.00302,0.01434,-0.0054,0.00842,-0.00666,0.002395,-0.008745,-0.01834,0.00399,-0.0059,-0.01588,0.00988,-3e-04,0.002215
Berber:Berber_MAR_ERR,-0.0081143,0.0128929,-0.0008714,-0.0220429,0.0083357,-0.01165,-0.0132857,0.0043786,0.0329286,0.0164214,0.0060643,-0.0039857,0.0145714,-0.0117286,0.0148786,-0.0106643,-0.0045857,-0.0168643,-0.0367,0.0075786,-0.0131857,-0.0336643,0.0201286,-0.0017143,0.0044857
Berber:Berber_MAR_TIZ,-0.0090071,0.0129643,-0.0006143,-0.0235143,0.0100929,-0.0127857,-0.0142571,0.0052071,0.0374786,0.0173214,0.0054286,-0.0061786,0.0166357,-0.0148357,0.0149929,-0.0118571,8.57e-05,-0.0227571,-0.0425,0.0095286,-0.0166857,-0.0413357,0.0249429,-0.0043071,0.0062357
Berber:Berber_Tunisia_Chen,-0.0024556,0.0136944,-0.0021444,-0.0236778,0.0090111,-0.0126222,-0.0133556,0.0022889,0.0334556,0.01635,0.0024667,-0.0029278,0.0132056,-0.0117167,0.0103833,-0.01275,0.0001167,-0.0183833,-0.0371722,0.0062833,-0.0134889,-0.0326944,0.0228278,-0.0036944,0.0053167
Berber:Berber_Tunisia_Sen,-0.0034353,0.0132706,-0.0050294,-0.0241176,0.0061118,-0.0127529,-0.0092176,0.0025412,0.0282059,0.0112824,0.0034765,-0.0081647,0.0177059,-0.0068353,0.0091941,-0.0037765,-0.0043647,-0.0103941,-0.0241353,0.0092118,-0.0068235,-0.0195588,0.0121706,-4.12e-05,0.0004588
Berber:Tunisian_Berber_Matmata,-0.0045571,0.0130714,-0.0027286,-0.0229214,0.0073929,-0.0119214,-0.0106071,0.0021571,0.0282786,0.0153786,0.0033,-0.0038071,0.0143,-0.0105071,0.0095286,-0.0077643,0.00015,-0.0126357,-0.0285357,0.0059714,-0.00915,-0.0244929,0.0166143,-0.0016214,0.003
Berber:Tunisian_Berber_Tamezret,-0.00303,0.01328,-0.00248,-0.02414,0.00868,-0.01264,-0.01096,0.00331,0.02962,0.01652,0.00343,-0.0051,0.0135,-0.01236,0.01022,-0.00812,0.00143,-0.01669,-0.03181,0.00791,-0.00868,-0.02783,0.0194,-0.00239,0.00567
Berber:Tunisian_Berber_Zraoua,-0.0025267,0.0135267,-0.0034733,-0.0242267,0.0075533,-0.01174,-0.01242,0.00192,0.0306933,0.0158067,0.0038467,-0.00538,0.0150867,-0.0090667,0.01086,-0.0097133,-0.00514,-0.0139333,-0.03062,0.0067133,-0.0099733,-0.0242333,0.0180067,-0.00202,0.00254
Slav:Belarusian,0.01162,0.0121733,0.0198933,0.0215 467,0.0130733,0.0095267,0.0045667,0.0057733,-0.0001333,-0.0135,-0.00166,-0.0061467,0.013,0.0197867,-0.0083,-0.0028667,-0.00074,0.0002933,0.0032933,-0.00084,-0.0033933,-0.0037267,0.0062667,-0.0056933,0.00058
Slav:Ukrainian,0.0115027,0.0122189,0.0181243,0.017 8189,0.0122459,0.0076351,0.0037297,0.0049,-0.0014135,-0.0115784,-0.0010054,-0.0051108,0.0103297,0.0157189,-0.0082784,-0.000827,0.0035973,-0.0005514,0.0020676,0.0013595,-0.0036054,-0.0028135,0.0054676,-0.0033676,0.0006027
German:German,0.0114443,0.0135278,0.0153747,0.0119 835,0.0129987,0.0056101,0.0017304,0.0025076,0.0017 241,0.0010316,-0.0027177,0.0015835,-0.0036127,-0.0018468,0.0062722,0.0024823,-0.0025101,0.0013127,0.0026785,0.0013747,0.0025165, 0.0016215,5.82e-05,0.0068924,0.0002316
German:Dutch,0.0111359,0.0129297,0.0162,0.0142875, 0.01315,0.0059609,0.0027844,0.0035016,0.0017484,0. 0001797,-0.0039688,0.0030609,-0.0058578,-0.006425,0.0128531,0.0040312,-0.0063,0.001,0.0033969,0.00225,0.0037594,0.0023188 ,0.0002172,0.0127422,-0.0004109
Balkan:Albanian,0.0103833,0.0139583,0.004125,-0.0049167,0.008175,-0.0026583,0.0014333,0.0007833,0.000325,0.00885,0.0 006833,0.0010333,-0.004775,0.0048,-0.0142167,-0.0031333,0.0062333,0.0011833,0.0066,-0.00475,-0.0044583,0.0005833,0.0019667,0.001825,-0.0021083
Balkan:Macedonian:Central,0.0107,0.0148,0.0045,-0.0011,0.0065,-0.0018,0.0031,0.0015,0.0009,0.005,-0.0054,-0.0011,-0.0031,0.0001,-0.0098,-0.0006,0.0073,-0.0025,0.0018,-0.0069,-0.0082,0.0003,0.0089,0.0022,-0.006
Scandinavian:Swedish,0.0117667,0.0126333,0.0191095 ,0.0174333,0.0132905,0.0076857,0.0030048,0.0040286 ,0.0024,-0.003619,-0.0029571,0.0010095,-0.0031286,-0.0027857,0.0110524,0.0030286,-0.0055476,0.001581,0.0027714,0.0039,0.0056714,0.00 18429,0.0009143,0.0088476,-0.0008143
Scandinavian:Norwegian,0.0117571,0.0126,0.0180143, 0.0165429,0.0125571,0.0075429,0.0017857,0.0027286, 0.0028,0.0002143,-0.0023,0.0024571,-0.0050571,-0.0085,0.0155286,0.0070857,-0.0041571,0.0020571,0.0005429,6e-04,0.0045143,0.0045,0.0034714,0.0147143,0.0009143
Italian:_Tuscany,0.01042,0.0146467,0.0036067,-0.0063467,0.0085,-0.0032467,-2e-04,-6e-04,0.0036667,0.0131133,-0.00014,0.00364,-0.00798,-0.00334,-0.0017533,-0.00022,0.0030933,0.00038,0.00306,-0.0019133,-0.0009667,0.0019933,-0.0008467,0.00322,-0.0013267
Italian:_Lazio,0.010075,0.015025,0.001775,-0.01085,0.006925,-0.00415,0.00105,0.000225,0.00335,0.012875,8e-04,0.0019,-0.00515,-0.00515,-0.00505,0.003125,-0.000175,-4e-04,0.00145,-0.00405,-0.0022,0.002725,-3e-04,-3e-04,-4e-04
Italian:_Liguria,0.01,0.0144,0.0072,-0.0037,0.0095,-8e-04,0.001,5e-04,0.0047,0.0139,-0.006,0.0019,-0.0088,8e-04,-8e-04,-0.0094,-0.0051,-3e-04,0.003,6e-04,-2e-04,8e-04,0.0032,6e-04,5e-04
Levant:Palestinian_Beit_Sahour,0.0077,0.01445,-0.01435,-0.0263,-0.0051,-0.0083,-0.0023,-0.0022,0.00575,0.00565,0.0021,-0.00385,0.00735,-0.0038,-0.0036,0.0109,0.00755,0.00155,-1e-04,-9e-04,-0.00135,0.00315,0.00285,0.00445,0.0028




Target: Juan
Distance: 1.5623% / 0.01562257
77.0 Spanish&Portuguese
13.0 Italian
7.2 Balkan
2.8 Berber

He quitado Liguria por que no es representativa de la región.

Target: Juan
Distance: 1.5665% / 0.01566539
84.0 Spanish&Portuguese
13.8 Balkan
2.2 Berber

Target: Juan
Distance: 1.5665% / 0.01566539
48.2 Spanish&Portuguese:_Asturias
14.2 Spanish&Portuguese:_Cantabria
13.8 Balkan:Albanian
13.4 Spanish&Portuguese:_Castilla_Y_Leon
8.2 Spanish&Portuguese:_Baleares
2.2 Berber:Berber_Tunisia_Chen

Distance to: Juan
0.01793061 Spanish&Portuguese:_Castilla_Y_Leon
0.01934901 Spanish&Portuguese:_Aragon
0.01951743 Spanish&Portuguese:_Asturias
0.01971237 Spanish&Portuguese:_Andalucia
0.02012502 Spanish&Portuguese:_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.02032187 Spanish&Portuguese:_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.02049486 Spanish&Portuguese:_Cantabria
0.02064511 Spanish&Portuguese:_Valencia
0.02064578 Spanish&Portuguese:_Menorca
0.02100471 Spanish&Portuguese:_Eivissa
0.02102207 Spanish&Portuguese:_Murcia
0.02103038 Spanish&Portuguese:_Barcelones
0.02118648 Spanish&Portuguese:_Galicia
0.02123919 Spanish&Portuguese:_Baleares
0.02133784 Spanish&Portuguese:_Lleida
0.02138207 Spanish&Portuguese:_Pirineu
0.02158192 Spanish&Portuguese:Portuguese
0.02161403 Spanish&Portuguese:_Peri-Barcelona
0.02175521 Spanish&Portuguese:_Extremadura
0.02210670 Spanish&Portuguese:_Cataluna
0.02233878 Spanish&Portuguese:_Girona
0.02240652 Spanish&Portuguese:_Alacant
0.02298872 Spanish&Portuguese:_Mallorca
0.02325931 Spanish&Portuguese:_Canarias
0.02329952 Spanish&Portuguese:_Penedes

Ruderico
02-03-2021, 11:44 AM
nMonte con penalidad standard

[1] "distance%=1.1999"

Ruderico

Spanish&Portuguese,91.6
Italian,7.6
Berber,0.8


Sin Liguria

[1] "distance%=1.2134"

Ruderico

Spanish&Portuguese,100


Ya he hecho este experimento antes, me queda mas o menos 2/3 Castilla y Leon + 1/3 Asturias

JJJ
02-03-2021, 12:51 PM
Jaja ahora se puede generar códigos QR en Chrome y enlazar a sitios:

https://i.imgur.com/spK6zqc.png

Shadogowah
02-03-2021, 01:12 PM
Leo a Ruderico en el foro de los primohermanos que él no corre los modelos en vahaduo sino en nMonte. Yo creía que todos estábamos usando vahaduo. Da resultados tan diferentes?

JJJ
02-03-2021, 01:27 PM
Leo a Ruderico en el foro de los primohermanos que él no corre los modelos en vahaduo sino en nMonte. Yo creía que todos estábamos usando vahaduo. Da resultados tan diferentes?

Cambia bastante, el mismo modelo de mi firma con penalización similar usando Vahaduo:

Target: Juan
Distance: 1.8553% / 0.01855286 | ADC: 0.25x RC
72.4 NW_Iberia_IA
15.6 Roman_Colonial
12.0 Berber_EMA


[1] "distance%=1.9178"

JJJ

NW_Iberia_IA,79.8
Roman_Colonial,12.4
Berber_EMA,7.8

Pero el problema es que no cambia tanto si usas penalización como si no en Vahaduo, que es algo necesario al utilizar unscaled:

Target: Juan
Distance: 1.8553% / 0.01855286
72.4 NW_Iberia_IA
15.6 Roman_Colonial
12.0 Berber_EMA

rober_tce
02-03-2021, 02:05 PM
Yo usaba nMonte pero por comodidad uso ahora Vahaduo, cuando quiero poner penalización pongo añadir distancia. Para usar nMonte tengo que ponerme con el programa R en el PC, y apenas enciendo el ordenador, suelo escribir desde tablet o móvil. Otra herramienta muy buena es la herramienta online de lo algoritmo de descenso de gradiente de Randwulf.

Mis resultados con dist:

Target: Roberto
Distance: 0.6655% / 0.00665474 | ADC: 0.25x RC
57.2 Spanish&Portuguese:_Navarra
19.8 Spanish&Portuguese:_Soria
7.8 Spanish&Portuguese:_La_Rioja
5.2 British_Isles:Irish
3.4 Spanish&Portuguese:_Cantabria
3.4 Levant: Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
3.2 Berber:Berber_Tunisia_Sen

Target: Roberto
Distance: 0.6655% / 0.00665474 | ADC: 0.25x RC
88.2 Spanish&Portuguese
5.2 British_Isles
3.4 Levant
3.2 Berber


Más acorde a lo que suelo puntuar normalmente.

mokordo
02-03-2021, 02:35 PM
Yo usaba nMonte pero por comodidad uso ahora Vahaduo, cuando quiero poner penalización pongo añadir distancia. Para usar nMonte tengo que ponerme con el programa R en el PC, y apenas enciendo el ordenador, suelo escribir desde tablet o móvil. Otra herramienta muy buena es la herramienta online de lo algoritmo de descenso de gradiente de Randwulf.

Mis resultados con dist:

Target: Roberto
Distance: 0.6655% / 0.00665474 | ADC: 0.25x RC
57.2 Spanish&Portuguese:_Navarra
19.8 Spanish&Portuguese:_Soria
7.8 Spanish&Portuguese:_La_Rioja
5.2 British_Isles:Irish
3.4 Spanish&Portuguese:_Cantabria
3.4 Levant: Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
3.2 Berber:Berber_Tunisia_Sen

Target: Roberto
Distance: 0.6655% / 0.00665474 | ADC: 0.25x RC
88.2 Spanish&Portuguese
5.2 British_Isles
3.4 Levant
3.2 Berber


Más acorde a lo que suelo puntuar normalmente.

Nmonte es bastante coñazo pasa usar, estoy de acuerdo. Vahaduo también usa el método Montecarlo en los algoritmos que producen los resultados, por cierto.

A ver si algún informático crea ya un paquete estadístico que utilice algoritmos de Las Vegas en vez de Monte Carlo, introduciendo una variable binaria tipo booleano para desechar soluciones incorrectas.

Y ya puestos, que algún español cree un algoritmo Torrelodones en teoría de juegos, estaría gracioso.(Por el casino de Torrelodones, que debió ser famosillo en su tiempo, ya que se cita en una canción de Sabina):biggrin1:

Puedes usar este otro, no sé si lo conoces:

https://yk.github.io/ancestry/

Yo suelo usar el Adam medium tal y como viene. Los resultados tardan unos segundos en aparecer.

mokordo
02-03-2021, 02:48 PM
Cuando preparas un modelo, pones y quitas referencias y pruebas montones de variaciones a ver cual da resultados más confiables, Vahaduo es muy práctico.

Si añadieran una especie de pestaña de "configuración" para poder modificar algún parámetro algo más avanzado, sería maravilloso.

JJJ
02-03-2021, 02:52 PM
Había un nmonte online pero me parece que lo ha birlado Genoplot y hay que pagar con los pagarés esos que te dan como límite, estoy hablando de memoria.

Ruderico
02-03-2021, 03:00 PM
Si es verdad, yo uso siempre nMonte, nunca Vahaduo, y siempre con penalidad en modelos con datos G25. Solo quito la penalidad en modelos con datos "escalados". No me gusta la penalidad de Vahaduo, por veces no hace nada, otras veces es demasiado agresivo. Voy a dar un ejemplo



Modelo:

Roman_Colonial:Imperial,0.0090229,0.0146708,-0.0062979,-0.0178188,0.0014208,-0.0072875,-0.0005688,-0.0021438,0.0002062,0.0106104,0.0019917,0.0015396,-0.0026375,-0.0011021,-0.0059188,-0.0013562,0.0028938,0.0004229,0.0010604,-0.0024729,-0.0019583,0.0015146,-0.0007271,-0.0004042,0.0004729
Roman_Colonial:Levant,0.007675,0.014375,-0.015275,-0.02705,-0.0036,-0.009975,-0.003325,-0.003225,0.0038,0.007275,0.001675,-0.006475,0.00865,-0.001925,-0.007075,0.007725,0.0013,-0.000925,0.002075,0.00265,-2e-04,0.003625,-0.0029,-7e-04,-0.004
Berber_EMA,-0.00346,0.01294,-0.00062,-0.02128,0.01096,-0.01304,-0.01276,0.00358,0.03466,0.01676,0.00466,-0.004,0.01228,-0.01286,0.0171,-0.00984,0.00244,-0.01516,-0.03526,0.00832,-0.0108,-0.0305,0.01888,-0.00098,0.00386
Germanic,0.0119,0.012,0.0221,0.0224,0.0154,0.007,-0.004,0.0022,0.0056,7e-04,7e-04,0.0017,-0.0074,-0.0099,0.0255,0.0089,-0.0035,0.0013,0.0096,0.0155,3e-04,-0.001,-0.0038,-0.0017,0.0045
NW_Iberia_IA:Celtiberian,0.010633333,0.0141,0.0167 33333,0.0042,0.018566667,0.001266667,-0.0024,0.0033,0.0139,0.019,-0.0001,0.005266667,-0.013833333,-0.0088,0.005566667,-0.0035,-0.0057,0.0027,0.002166667,-0.000533333,0.005666667,0.005533333,-0.006533333,-0.003966667,-0.003866667
NW_Iberia_IA:Iberian,0.0109375,0.0146625,0.014975, 0.000675,0.01945,-0.0011375,-0.00155,0.0019375,0.0146625,0.025725,-0.0029,0.0074125,-0.0157125,-0.01055,0.0057875,0.00425,0.0052,0.001275,0.003025 ,-0.000825,0.0044625,-7.5e-05,-0.005975,-0.0102875,-0.0009375
NW_Iberia_IA:Orkney_Pict,0.01135,0.0138,0.01615,0. 01555,0.0127,0.0063,0.001,0.003,0.0013,0.00085,-0.0066,0.0041,-0.0113,-0.01035,0.01985,-0.004,-0.02015,0.0019,0.0021,0.00505,0.00065,0.00295,-0.00605,0.01365,0.001
NW_Iberia_IA:Iceland_Gaelic,0.0112,0.0134,0.01685, 0.01475,0.0112,0.00825,0.0012,0.0044,0.0038,0.0038 ,-0.00395,0.0021,-0.0122,-0.018,0.0221,-0.0026,-0.015,0.00045,0.0063,0.00425,0.00085,0.0026,0.0031 ,0.0109,0.0056


Vahaduo:


Target: Ruderico
Distance: 1.5525% / 0.01552537
54.4 NW_Iberia_IA:Celtiberian
21.6 NW_Iberia_IA:Iceland_Gaelic
14.2 Berber_EMA
9.8 Roman_Colonial:Imperial

Target: Ruderico
Distance: 1.5525% / 0.01552537 | ADC: 0.25x RC
54.4 NW_Iberia_IA:Celtiberian
21.6 NW_Iberia_IA:Iceland_Gaelic
14.2 Berber_EMA
9.8 Roman_Colonial:Imperial

Target: Ruderico
Distance: 1.5525% / 0.01552537 | ADC: 0.5x RC
54.4 NW_Iberia_IA:Celtiberian
21.6 NW_Iberia_IA:Iceland_Gaelic
14.2 Berber_EMA
9.8 Roman_Colonial:Imperial

Target: Ruderico
Distance: 1.6090% / 0.01608959 | ADC: 1x RC
62.2 NW_Iberia_IA:Celtiberian
21.2 NW_Iberia_IA:Iceland_Gaelic
16.6 Berber_EMA

Los resultados son todos una tontería porque no hay penalidad hasta 1X RC, pero aún asi el resultado de 1X RC es muy raro, nadie tiene 17% norte Africano, esto solo he pasado porque el algoritmo no asignó ningún Roman_Colonial, entonces Berber_EMA lo compensa. Esto es, claro, falso. No hay Portugueses ni Españoles (que no sean Vascos) sin aporte de origen "Romano", o algo Mediterráneo oriental.


nMonte:

sin penalidad es el mismo que Vahaduo, es solo un algoritmo de Monte Carlo que calcula la combinación más cercana a mi punto/datos:

[1] "distance%=1.5525"

Ruderico

NW_Iberia_IA,76
Berber_EMA,14.2
Roman_Colonial,9.8

con penalidad:

[1] "distance%=1.6255"

Ruderico

NW_Iberia_IA,80.8
Roman_Colonial,10
Berber_EMA,9.2


[1] "distance%=1.6126"

Ruderico

NW_Iberia_IA,81.2
Berber_EMA,10.8
Roman_Colonial,8


[1] "distance%=1.6055"

Ruderico

NW_Iberia_IA,81.4
Berber_EMA,11
Roman_Colonial,7.6


[1] "distance%=1.6161"

Ruderico

NW_Iberia_IA,80.6
Berber_EMA,10
Roman_Colonial,9.4


[1] "distance%=1.6082"

Ruderico

NW_Iberia_IA,81.2
Berber_EMA,10.6
Roman_Colonial,8.2


[1] "distance%=1.6265"

Ruderico

NW_Iberia_IA,81.2
Berber_EMA,9.6
Roman_Colonial,9.2


(nueva signature!)
[1] "distance%=1.6007"

Ruderico

NW_Iberia_IA,80.4
Berber_EMA,11
Roman_Colonial,8.6


[1] "distance%=1.6036"

Ruderico

NW_Iberia_IA,80.4
Berber_EMA,10.6
Roman_Colonial,9
Como se puede ver los resultados cambian siempre. ¿Como decidir cual es el mejor?
Es una buena cuestión, yo uso como referencia el aporte de norte Africano e selecciono el resultado que tiene lo valor más cercano a los estudios genéticos publicados, para Portugal ese valor es cerca de 11% y no cambia mucho[1][2][3][4]. Si hay múltiplos resultados con valores cercanos selecciono el que tiene menor distancia.
¿Esto significa que el resultado es seguramente más realista? No lo sé, no tengo más referencias. Es lo que es.


[1] https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-N4Qt1Uu23XM/Wr8a2yJ7iTI/AAAAAAAADy0/5m9VSUHNE54SN0iq8dwj2jEjLAm9peEJQCEwYBhgL/s1600/NMorocco.png
[2] https://i.postimg.cc/G3PZyM97/2.png
[3] https://i.postimg.cc/3Nppk43V/k7.png
[4] https://i.postimg.cc/28GJyV3V/k9-k15.png

mokordo
02-03-2021, 03:36 PM
Si es verdad, yo uso siempre nMonte, nunca Vahaduo, y siempre con penalidad en modelos con datos G25. Solo quito la penalidad en modelos con datos "escalados". No me gusta la penalidad de Vahaduo, por veces no hace nada, otras veces es demasiado agresivo. Voy a dar un ejemplo



Modelo:

Roman_Colonial:Imperial,0.0090229,0.0146708,-0.0062979,-0.0178188,0.0014208,-0.0072875,-0.0005688,-0.0021438,0.0002062,0.0106104,0.0019917,0.0015396,-0.0026375,-0.0011021,-0.0059188,-0.0013562,0.0028938,0.0004229,0.0010604,-0.0024729,-0.0019583,0.0015146,-0.0007271,-0.0004042,0.0004729
Roman_Colonial:Levant,0.007675,0.014375,-0.015275,-0.02705,-0.0036,-0.009975,-0.003325,-0.003225,0.0038,0.007275,0.001675,-0.006475,0.00865,-0.001925,-0.007075,0.007725,0.0013,-0.000925,0.002075,0.00265,-2e-04,0.003625,-0.0029,-7e-04,-0.004
Berber_EMA,-0.00346,0.01294,-0.00062,-0.02128,0.01096,-0.01304,-0.01276,0.00358,0.03466,0.01676,0.00466,-0.004,0.01228,-0.01286,0.0171,-0.00984,0.00244,-0.01516,-0.03526,0.00832,-0.0108,-0.0305,0.01888,-0.00098,0.00386
Germanic,0.0119,0.012,0.0221,0.0224,0.0154,0.007,-0.004,0.0022,0.0056,7e-04,7e-04,0.0017,-0.0074,-0.0099,0.0255,0.0089,-0.0035,0.0013,0.0096,0.0155,3e-04,-0.001,-0.0038,-0.0017,0.0045
NW_Iberia_IA:Celtiberian,0.010633333,0.0141,0.0167 33333,0.0042,0.018566667,0.001266667,-0.0024,0.0033,0.0139,0.019,-0.0001,0.005266667,-0.013833333,-0.0088,0.005566667,-0.0035,-0.0057,0.0027,0.002166667,-0.000533333,0.005666667,0.005533333,-0.006533333,-0.003966667,-0.003866667
NW_Iberia_IA:Iberian,0.0109375,0.0146625,0.014975, 0.000675,0.01945,-0.0011375,-0.00155,0.0019375,0.0146625,0.025725,-0.0029,0.0074125,-0.0157125,-0.01055,0.0057875,0.00425,0.0052,0.001275,0.003025 ,-0.000825,0.0044625,-7.5e-05,-0.005975,-0.0102875,-0.0009375
NW_Iberia_IA:Orkney_Pict,0.01135,0.0138,0.01615,0. 01555,0.0127,0.0063,0.001,0.003,0.0013,0.00085,-0.0066,0.0041,-0.0113,-0.01035,0.01985,-0.004,-0.02015,0.0019,0.0021,0.00505,0.00065,0.00295,-0.00605,0.01365,0.001
NW_Iberia_IA:Iceland_Gaelic,0.0112,0.0134,0.01685, 0.01475,0.0112,0.00825,0.0012,0.0044,0.0038,0.0038 ,-0.00395,0.0021,-0.0122,-0.018,0.0221,-0.0026,-0.015,0.00045,0.0063,0.00425,0.00085,0.0026,0.0031 ,0.0109,0.0056



Bueno, en Vahaduo usando los Guanches como referencia bereber con tus sources, la referencia de el País Vasco obtiene más de un 3% de Bereber si recuerdo bien.

Es que esa referencia Guanche tiene entre un 10-15% de vasco o similar, Ruderico, y siempre lo digo, por mucho que sea medieval, previa a la llegada masiva de europeos y estuvieran aislados, los primeros pobladores de las islas Canarias tenían que estar mezclados.

Solo hay que ver que a lo que más se parecen es a los marroquíes modernos más norteños.

De todas formas, hay también alguna teoría que relaciona vascos y bereberes, vete a saber...

O simplemente a que la conexión ibérica-norteafricana en la antigüedad era más habitual de lo que muchos presumen.

Target: Spanish_Pais_Vasco
Distance: 1.2908% / 0.01290837
96.6 NW_Iberia_IA
3.4 Berber_EMA

Target: Basque_French
Distance: 1.1328% / 0.01132771
99.0 NW_Iberia_IA
1.0 Berber_EMA

Target: Basque_Spanish
Distance: 1.1062% / 0.01106156
98.0 NW_Iberia_IA
2.0 Berber_EMA

mokordo
02-03-2021, 03:45 PM
Había un nmonte online pero me parece que lo ha birlado Genoplot y hay que pagar con los pagarés esos que te dan como límite, estoy hablando de memoria.

Siempre puedes usar R directamente, pero si Nmonte es ya bastante pesadico de preparar, R lo es unas cuantas veces más.

JJJ
02-03-2021, 03:57 PM
Siempre puedes usar R directamente, pero si Nmonte es ya bastante pesadico de preparar, R lo es unas cuantas veces más.

Para modelos importantes no escalados cumpliría su función, con 4 referencias como mucho.

Soy un negado de las matemáticas de todas formas a no ser que haya tutoriales para usar nMonte y R.

rober_tce
02-03-2021, 03:57 PM
Nmonte es bastante coñazo pasa usar, estoy de acuerdo. Vahaduo también usa el método Montecarlo en los algoritmos que producen los resultados, por cierto.

A ver si algún informático crea ya un paquete estadístico que utilice algoritmos de Las Vegas en vez de Monte Carlo, introduciendo una variable binaria tipo booleano para desechar soluciones incorrectas.

Y ya puestos, que algún español cree un algoritmo Torrelodones en teoría de juegos, estaría gracioso.(Por el casino de Torrelodones, que debió ser famosillo en su tiempo, ya que se cita en una canción de Sabina):biggrin1:

Puedes usar este otro, no sé si lo conoces:

https://yk.github.io/ancestry/

Yo suelo usar el Adam medium tal y como viene. Los resultados tardan unos segundos en aparecer.

Exacto, ese link es de la herramienta de Randwulf “gradient descend algorythm”, muy bueno por cierto. Eso sí, si tenéis iPad/iPhone no os va a funcionar bien, solo es recomendable usarlo en Android o pc, a menos que ya hayan solucionado esto para los dispositivos Apple. A mí me gusta usar Adam Thorough y Medium, el Quick es demasiado “ligero” valga la redundancia jaja

Antes de salir Vahaduo usaba nMonte con el programa estadístico R, pero es más lento y a veces me da mucha pereza agarrar el pc solo para eso. La pega es lo que comenta Ruderico, las penalizaciones en Vahaduo no funcionan como deberían según qué casos, también me he percatado que hay modelos que o se pasan de penalizado eliminando referencias importantes, o se quedan cortos.

En la última hoja de cálculo que has puesto me da buen resultado con 0.25, ya que se ajusta a mí 88-90% ibérico que me suele salir y es el que tomo como referencia, sin embargo con otras spreadsheet le meto la misma penalización y me da resultados bizarros.

Ruderico
02-03-2021, 03:58 PM
Bueno, en Vahaduo usando los Guanches como referencia bereber con tus sources, la referencia de el País Vasco obtiene más de un 3% de Bereber si recuerdo bien.

Es que esa referencia Guanche tiene entre un 10-15% de vasco o similar, Ruderico, y siempre lo digo, por mucho que sea medieval, previa a la llegada masiva de europeos y estuvieran aislados, los primeros pobladores de las islas Canarias tenían que estar mezclados.

Solo hay que ver que a lo que más se parecen es a los marroquíes modernos más norteños.

De todas formas, hay también alguna teoría que relaciona vascos y bereberes, vete a saber...

O simplemente a que la conexión ibérica-norteafricana en la antigüedad era más habitual de lo que muchos presumen.

Target: Spanish_Pais_Vasco
Distance: 1.2908% / 0.01290837
96.6 NW_Iberia_IA
3.4 Berber_EMA

Target: Basque_French
Distance: 1.1328% / 0.01132771
99.0 NW_Iberia_IA
1.0 Berber_EMA

Target: Basque_Spanish
Distance: 1.1062% / 0.01106156
98.0 NW_Iberia_IA
2.0 Berber_EMA

Vale, pero que yo sepa Spanish_Pais_Vasco no son Vasco-hablantes sino Castellanos del País Vasco. De cualquier manera valores de 1% o 2% en este tipo de modelos están dentro de la margen de error, unscaled tiene el problema de ser un poquito ruidoso, pero no tienes la pierda de información ni la distorsión causada por scaling.

Edit: Puedes cambiar la referencia por la de Cerdeña

alejandromb92
02-03-2021, 04:09 PM
Si es verdad, yo uso siempre nMonte, nunca Vahaduo, y siempre con penalidad en modelos con datos G25. Solo quito la penalidad en modelos con datos "escalados". No me gusta la penalidad de Vahaduo, por veces no hace nada, otras veces es demasiado agresivo. Voy a dar un ejemplo



Modelo:

Roman_Colonial:Imperial,0.0090229,0.0146708,-0.0062979,-0.0178188,0.0014208,-0.0072875,-0.0005688,-0.0021438,0.0002062,0.0106104,0.0019917,0.0015396,-0.0026375,-0.0011021,-0.0059188,-0.0013562,0.0028938,0.0004229,0.0010604,-0.0024729,-0.0019583,0.0015146,-0.0007271,-0.0004042,0.0004729
Roman_Colonial:Levant,0.007675,0.014375,-0.015275,-0.02705,-0.0036,-0.009975,-0.003325,-0.003225,0.0038,0.007275,0.001675,-0.006475,0.00865,-0.001925,-0.007075,0.007725,0.0013,-0.000925,0.002075,0.00265,-2e-04,0.003625,-0.0029,-7e-04,-0.004
Berber_EMA,-0.00346,0.01294,-0.00062,-0.02128,0.01096,-0.01304,-0.01276,0.00358,0.03466,0.01676,0.00466,-0.004,0.01228,-0.01286,0.0171,-0.00984,0.00244,-0.01516,-0.03526,0.00832,-0.0108,-0.0305,0.01888,-0.00098,0.00386
Germanic,0.0119,0.012,0.0221,0.0224,0.0154,0.007,-0.004,0.0022,0.0056,7e-04,7e-04,0.0017,-0.0074,-0.0099,0.0255,0.0089,-0.0035,0.0013,0.0096,0.0155,3e-04,-0.001,-0.0038,-0.0017,0.0045
NW_Iberia_IA:Celtiberian,0.010633333,0.0141,0.0167 33333,0.0042,0.018566667,0.001266667,-0.0024,0.0033,0.0139,0.019,-0.0001,0.005266667,-0.013833333,-0.0088,0.005566667,-0.0035,-0.0057,0.0027,0.002166667,-0.000533333,0.005666667,0.005533333,-0.006533333,-0.003966667,-0.003866667
NW_Iberia_IA:Iberian,0.0109375,0.0146625,0.014975, 0.000675,0.01945,-0.0011375,-0.00155,0.0019375,0.0146625,0.025725,-0.0029,0.0074125,-0.0157125,-0.01055,0.0057875,0.00425,0.0052,0.001275,0.003025 ,-0.000825,0.0044625,-7.5e-05,-0.005975,-0.0102875,-0.0009375
NW_Iberia_IA:Orkney_Pict,0.01135,0.0138,0.01615,0. 01555,0.0127,0.0063,0.001,0.003,0.0013,0.00085,-0.0066,0.0041,-0.0113,-0.01035,0.01985,-0.004,-0.02015,0.0019,0.0021,0.00505,0.00065,0.00295,-0.00605,0.01365,0.001
NW_Iberia_IA:Iceland_Gaelic,0.0112,0.0134,0.01685, 0.01475,0.0112,0.00825,0.0012,0.0044,0.0038,0.0038 ,-0.00395,0.0021,-0.0122,-0.018,0.0221,-0.0026,-0.015,0.00045,0.0063,0.00425,0.00085,0.0026,0.0031 ,0.0109,0.0056


Vahaduo:


Target: Ruderico
Distance: 1.5525% / 0.01552537
54.4 NW_Iberia_IA:Celtiberian
21.6 NW_Iberia_IA:Iceland_Gaelic
14.2 Berber_EMA
9.8 Roman_Colonial:Imperial

Target: Ruderico
Distance: 1.5525% / 0.01552537 | ADC: 0.25x RC
54.4 NW_Iberia_IA:Celtiberian
21.6 NW_Iberia_IA:Iceland_Gaelic
14.2 Berber_EMA
9.8 Roman_Colonial:Imperial

Target: Ruderico
Distance: 1.5525% / 0.01552537 | ADC: 0.5x RC
54.4 NW_Iberia_IA:Celtiberian
21.6 NW_Iberia_IA:Iceland_Gaelic
14.2 Berber_EMA
9.8 Roman_Colonial:Imperial

Target: Ruderico
Distance: 1.6090% / 0.01608959 | ADC: 1x RC
62.2 NW_Iberia_IA:Celtiberian
21.2 NW_Iberia_IA:Iceland_Gaelic
16.6 Berber_EMA

Los resultados son todos una tontería porque no hay penalidad hasta 1X RC, pero aún asi el resultado de 1X RC es muy raro, nadie tiene 17% norte Africano, esto solo he pasado porque el algoritmo no asignó ningún Roman_Colonial, entonces Berber_EMA lo compensa. Esto es, claro, falso. No hay Portugueses ni Españoles (que no sean Vascos) sin aporte de origen "Romano", o algo Mediterráneo oriental.


nMonte:

sin penalidad es el mismo que Vahaduo, es solo un algoritmo de Monte Carlo que calcula la combinación más cercana a mi punto/datos:

[1] "distance%=1.5525"

Ruderico

NW_Iberia_IA,76
Berber_EMA,14.2
Roman_Colonial,9.8

con penalidad:

[1] "distance%=1.6255"

Ruderico

NW_Iberia_IA,80.8
Roman_Colonial,10
Berber_EMA,9.2


[1] "distance%=1.6126"

Ruderico

NW_Iberia_IA,81.2
Berber_EMA,10.8
Roman_Colonial,8


[1] "distance%=1.6055"

Ruderico

NW_Iberia_IA,81.4
Berber_EMA,11
Roman_Colonial,7.6


[1] "distance%=1.6161"

Ruderico

NW_Iberia_IA,80.6
Berber_EMA,10
Roman_Colonial,9.4


[1] "distance%=1.6082"

Ruderico

NW_Iberia_IA,81.2
Berber_EMA,10.6
Roman_Colonial,8.2


[1] "distance%=1.6265"

Ruderico

NW_Iberia_IA,81.2
Berber_EMA,9.6
Roman_Colonial,9.2


(nueva signature!)
[1] "distance%=1.6007"

Ruderico

NW_Iberia_IA,80.4
Berber_EMA,11
Roman_Colonial,8.6


[1] "distance%=1.6036"

Ruderico

NW_Iberia_IA,80.4
Berber_EMA,10.6
Roman_Colonial,9
Como se puede ver los resultados cambian siempre. ¿Como decidir cual es el mejor?
Es una buena cuestión, yo uso como referencia el aporte de norte Africano e selecciono el resultado que tiene lo valor más cercano a los estudios genéticos publicados, para Portugal ese valor es cerca de 11% y no cambia mucho[1][2][3][4]. Si hay múltiplos resultados con valores cercanos selecciono el que tiene menor distancia.
¿Esto significa que el resultado es seguramente más realista? No lo sé, no tengo más referencias. Es lo que es.


[1] https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-N4Qt1Uu23XM/Wr8a2yJ7iTI/AAAAAAAADy0/5m9VSUHNE54SN0iq8dwj2jEjLAm9peEJQCEwYBhgL/s1600/NMorocco.png
[2] https://i.postimg.cc/G3PZyM97/2.png
[3] https://i.postimg.cc/3Nppk43V/k7.png
[4] https://i.postimg.cc/28GJyV3V/k9-k15.png

Cual es la razon de etiquetar a referencias de Orkney e Islandia como Edad de Hierro iberico?

JJJ
02-03-2021, 04:15 PM
Bueno, en Vahaduo usando los Guanches como referencia bereber con tus sources, la referencia de el País Vasco obtiene más de un 3% de Bereber si recuerdo bien.

Es que esa referencia Guanche tiene entre un 10-15% de vasco o similar, Ruderico, y siempre lo digo, por mucho que sea medieval, previa a la llegada masiva de europeos y estuvieran aislados, los primeros pobladores de las islas Canarias tenían que estar mezclados.

Solo hay que ver que a lo que más se parecen es a los marroquíes modernos más norteños.

De todas formas, hay también alguna teoría que relaciona vascos y bereberes, vete a saber...

O simplemente a que la conexión ibérica-norteafricana en la antigüedad era más habitual de lo que muchos presumen.

Target: Spanish_Pais_Vasco
Distance: 1.2908% / 0.01290837
96.6 NW_Iberia_IA
3.4 Berber_EMA

Target: Basque_French
Distance: 1.1328% / 0.01132771
99.0 NW_Iberia_IA
1.0 Berber_EMA

Target: Basque_Spanish
Distance: 1.1062% / 0.01106156
98.0 NW_Iberia_IA
2.0 Berber_EMA

Curiosamente solo aparece la muestra guanche gun011 con al menos 702.000 snps, sobretodo gun005 parece parcialmente español.

https://pastebin.com/vw0fU1Z4

Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche:gun012
Distance: 2.8662% / 0.02866222
37.6 TUR_Barcin_N
36.6 MAR_Taforalt
8.2 Dinka
6.8 Levant_PPNB
4.8 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
4.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
1.6 WHG

Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche:gun011
Distance: 2.9545% / 0.02954508
38.4 MAR_Taforalt
32.8 TUR_Barcin_N
8.0 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
7.4 Levant_PPNB
4.6 Yoruba
4.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
3.6 WHG
0.8 Dinka

Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche:gun008
Distance: 3.5623% / 0.03562273
45.6 TUR_Barcin_N
31.4 MAR_Taforalt
10.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
5.4 Levant_PPNB
4.4 Yoruba
1.2 Dinka
1.2 WHG
0.8 ETH_4500BP

Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche:gun005
Distance: 3.0282% / 0.03028172
34.4 TUR_Barcin_N
28.0 MAR_Taforalt
14.8 Levant_PPNB
9.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
6.6 WHG
4.8 Yoruba
1.2 Dinka
1.0 Han

Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche:gun002
Distance: 2.9714% / 0.02971422
40.4 TUR_Barcin_N
37.4 MAR_Taforalt
6.4 Yoruba
6.2 Levant_PPNB
5.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
2.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.0 Nganassan
0.6 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2_I8728

Ruderico
02-03-2021, 04:27 PM
Cual es la razon de etiquetar a referencias de Orkney e Islandia como Edad de Hierro iberico?

Ya he explicado eso en la sección Portuguesa, tu mismo lo citaste, pero básicamente es por qué no se conoce ningún movimiento poblacional significativo pos-Roma de tendencia/origen Británico. Cuando las he usado la primera vez David mismo dice que probablemente las muestras de La Hoya no deben tener un cierto tipo de variación genética que está presente hoy. O es algo nativo, pero que no está presente en las muestras Berones, o es algo que desconocemos, tal vez llegado en el periodo Romano. Nadie lo sabe. O entonces es G25 a trollear.

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?15798-Portugueses-no-Global25/page5&p=703827#post703827



Curiosamente solo aparece la muestra guanche gun011 con al menos 702.000 snps, sobretodo gun005 parece parcialmente español.

https://pastebin.com/vw0fU1Z4

Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche:gun012
Distance: 2.8662% / 0.02866222
37.6 TUR_Barcin_N
36.6 MAR_Taforalt
8.2 Dinka
6.8 Levant_PPNB
4.8 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
4.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
1.6 WHG

Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche:gun011
Distance: 2.9545% / 0.02954508
38.4 MAR_Taforalt
32.8 TUR_Barcin_N
8.0 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
7.4 Levant_PPNB
4.6 Yoruba
4.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
3.6 WHG
0.8 Dinka

Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche:gun008
Distance: 3.5623% / 0.03562273
45.6 TUR_Barcin_N
31.4 MAR_Taforalt
10.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
5.4 Levant_PPNB
4.4 Yoruba
1.2 Dinka
1.2 WHG
0.8 ETH_4500BP

Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche:gun005
Distance: 3.0282% / 0.03028172
34.4 TUR_Barcin_N
28.0 MAR_Taforalt
14.8 Levant_PPNB
9.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
6.6 WHG
4.8 Yoruba
1.2 Dinka
1.0 Han

Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche:gun002
Distance: 2.9714% / 0.02971422
40.4 TUR_Barcin_N
37.4 MAR_Taforalt
6.4 Yoruba
6.2 Levant_PPNB
5.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
2.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.0 Nganassan
0.6 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2_I8728



Si, no son todos exactamente iguales, hay unos más 'Europeos' que otros.

https://i.postimg.cc/8P8WVxNL/sard-outlier.png

alejandromb92
02-03-2021, 05:28 PM
Ya he explicado eso en la sección Portuguesa, tu mismo lo citaste, pero básicamente es por qué no se conoce ningún movimiento poblacional significativo pos-Roma de tendencia/origen Británico. Cuando las he usado la primera vez David mismo dice que probablemente las muestras de La Hoya no deben tener un cierto tipo de variación genética que está presente hoy. O es algo nativo, pero que no está presente en las muestras Berones, o es algo que desconocemos, tal vez llegado en el periodo Romano. Nadie lo sabe. O entonces es G25 a trollear.

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?15798-Portugueses-no-Global25/page5&p=703827#post703827

A mi me conto una vez una persona bastante sabida de estos temas que en periodo romano se trajeron varios mercenarios provenientes de Gran Bretaña, esto explica en gran medida la presencia de haplogrupos demasiado comunes entre britanicos e irlandeses como R1b-DF13. Estoy haciendo un pequeño estudio sobre esto y lo unico que puedo concluir hasta ahora, es que los niveles de estepa por encima de la media española que encuentras en los gallegos es debido a esta poblacion a finales de la Edad del Hierro. Es por ahora solo una hipotesis sin mucha base cientifica.

Ahora, pienso que es mejor separar muestras de una poblacion que no tiene mucho que ver con la otra.

mokordo
02-03-2021, 06:07 PM
Para modelos importantes no escalados cumpliría su función, con 4 referencias como mucho.

Soy un negado de las matemáticas de todas formas a no ser que haya tutoriales para usar nMonte y R.

Yo también soy un negado, por elección propia en gran medida, de muchas ramas de las matemáticas.

Y de las que podría opinar un poco más, no se utilizan demasiado en todo esto que tratamos. Bueno, siempre se usan, pero pasan desapercibidas.

Ruderico
02-03-2021, 06:09 PM
A mi me conto una vez una persona bastante sabida de estos temas que en periodo romano se trajeron varios mercenarios provenientes de Gran Bretaña, esto explica en gran medida la presencia de haplogrupos demasiado comunes entre britanicos e irlandeses como R1b-DF13. Estoy haciendo un pequeño estudio sobre esto y lo unico que puedo concluir hasta ahora, es que los niveles de estepa por encima de la media española que encuentras en los gallegos es debido a esta poblacion a finales de la Edad del Hierro. Es por ahora solo una hipotesis sin mucha base cientifica.

Ahora, pienso que es mejor separar muestras de una poblacion que no tiene mucho que ver con la otra.

Te quedas con modelos muchísimo diferentes para personas de la misma región debido a overfitting.

mokordo
02-03-2021, 06:10 PM
A mi me conto una vez una persona bastante sabida de estos temas que en periodo romano se trajeron varios mercenarios provenientes de Gran Bretaña, esto explica en gran medida la presencia de haplogrupos demasiado comunes entre britanicos e irlandeses como R1b-DF13. Estoy haciendo un pequeño estudio sobre esto y lo unico que puedo concluir hasta ahora, es que los niveles de estepa por encima de la media española que encuentras en los gallegos es debido a esta poblacion a finales de la Edad del Hierro. Es por ahora solo una hipotesis sin mucha base cientifica.

Ahora, pienso que es mejor separar muestras de una poblacion que no tiene mucho que ver con la otra.

Creo que Roma usaría diez veces más auxiliares y legionarios ibéricos en las islas británicas, que británicos en Hispania. Y funcionarios y profesionales de todo tipo también.

alejandromb92
02-03-2021, 06:10 PM
Te quedas con modelos muchísimo diferentes para personas de la misma región debido a overfitting.

Me lo podrias repetir en portugues? Es que no te entiendo, perdona.

alejandromb92
02-03-2021, 06:13 PM
Creo que Roma usaría diez veces más auxiliares y legionarios ibéricos en las islas británicas, que británicos en Hispania. Y funcionarios y profesionales de todo tipo también.

Hay algun registro de ello? No sabia que hubo ciertas migraciones desde la peninsula a las islas, se que viceversa si las hubo, pero no tan significativo a nivel nacional.

AlfonsoVIII
02-03-2021, 06:22 PM
Hay algun registro de ello? No sabia que hubo ciertas migraciones desde la peninsula a las islas, se que viceversa si las hubo, pero no tan significativo a nivel nacional.

El Ala Hispanorum Vettonum (https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ala_Hispanorum_Vettonum) por ejemplo.

Teniendo en cuenta que Hispania fue más eficazmente romanizada que Britania, fue más frecuente la presencia de voluntarios hispanos allí que de britanos aquí. Lo cual además parece quedar demostrado por la mayor abundancia allí de DF27 que de L21 aquí.

Por cierto, aún me pregunto por qué puñetas has eliminado la bandera española de tu perfil y te has puesto de avatar al cacique del ron homónimo, indigenista traidor... :eyebrows::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Ruderico
02-03-2021, 06:43 PM
Me lo podrias repetir en portugues? Es que no te entiendo, perdona.

Há quem fique com muito "Orkney/Gaelico", há quem não fique com quase nada. Se separas os dois em grupos diferentes ficas com resultados muito variados para pessoas com as mesmas origens. É muito improvavel que isso seja verdade. Isto pode acontecer devido a overfitting do algoritmo de Monte Carlo, não só devido a diferenças entre as duas amostras.


Exemplo de algumas amostras Portuguesas com a sua origem. Juntei as amostras "Orkney/Gaelico" num grupo "Atlantic":

[1] "distance%=1.7203"

Castelo_Branco

Iberia_IA,56.2
Atlantic,16
Rome_Imperial,15.8
Berber_EMA,12


[1] "distance%=1.6139"

Ruderico (Porto/Viseu)

Iberia_IA,61
Atlantic,19.8
Berber_EMA,9.8
Rome_Imperial,9.4


[1] "distance%=1.4922"

MrsRuderico (Castelo Branco)

Iberia_IA,61
Rome_Imperial,12
Berber_EMA,11.2
Atlantic,11
Germanic,4.8


[1] "distance%=1.0556"

Porto

Iberia_IA,45
Atlantic,25.2
Rome_Imperial,19
Berber_EMA,10.8


[1] "distance%=1.4321"

Braga

Iberia_IA,62.6
Rome_Imperial,17.6
Berber_EMA,11.6
Atlantic,8.2


[1] "distance%=1.713"

Porto/Braga

Iberia_IA,62.4
Atlantic,10.6
Berber_EMA,9.2
Rome_Imperial,9
Germanic,8.8


[1] "distance%=1.18"

Viana do Castelo

Iberia_IA,51
Rome_Imperial,15.4
Atlantic,14.8
Berber_EMA,11.2
Germanic,7.6

alejandromb92
02-03-2021, 06:45 PM
El Ala Hispanorum Vettonum (https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ala_Hispanorum_Vettonum) por ejemplo.

Teniendo en cuenta que Hispania fue más eficazmente romanizada que Britania, fue más frecuente la presencia de voluntarios hispanos allí que de britanos aquí. Lo cual además parece quedar demostrado por la mayor abundancia allí de DF27 que de L21 aquí.

Por cierto, aún me pregunto por qué puñetas has eliminado la bandera española de tu perfil y te has puesto de avatar al cacique del ron homónimo, indigenista traidor... :eyebrows::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Lo que uno aprende, seria interesantisimo que la grandisima cantidad de Z195 que hay en Inglaterra y Gales sea debido a migrantes provenientes de aqui, fliparia.

La bandera española siempre la llevo en el corazon pero deje solo la venezolana evidentemente para completar el fachon que tengo en el perfil.

alejandromb92
02-03-2021, 06:48 PM
Há quem fique com muito "Orkney/Gaelico", há quem não fique com quase nada. Se separas os dois em grupos diferentes ficas com resultados muito variados para pessoas com as mesmas origens. É muito improvavel que isso seja verdade. Isto pode acontecer devido a overfitting do algoritmo de Monte Carlo, não só devido a diferenças entre as duas amostras.


Exemplo de algumas amostras Portuguesas com a sua origem. Juntei as amostras "Orkney/Gaelico" num grupo "Atlantic":

[1] "distance%=1.7203"

Castelo_Branco

Iberia_IA,56.2
Atlantic,16
Rome_Imperial,15.8
Berber_EMA,12


[1] "distance%=1.6139"

Ruderico (Porto/Viseu)

Iberia_IA,61
Atlantic,19.8
Berber_EMA,9.8
Rome_Imperial,9.4


[1] "distance%=1.4922"

MrsRuderico (Castelo Branco)

Iberia_IA,61
Rome_Imperial,12
Berber_EMA,11.2
Atlantic,11
Germanic,4.8


[1] "distance%=1.0556"

Porto

Iberia_IA,45
Atlantic,25.2
Rome_Imperial,19
Berber_EMA,10.8


[1] "distance%=1.4321"

Braga

Iberia_IA,62.6
Rome_Imperial,17.6
Berber_EMA,11.6
Atlantic,8.2


[1] "distance%=1.713"

Porto/Braga

Iberia_IA,62.4
Atlantic,10.6
Berber_EMA,9.2
Rome_Imperial,9
Germanic,8.8


[1] "distance%=1.18"

Viana do Castelo

Iberia_IA,51
Rome_Imperial,15.4
Atlantic,14.8
Berber_EMA,11.2
Germanic,7.6

Pero intenta siempre penalizar hasta que tenga cierto sentido, eso es lo que hago yo siempre. Se puede penalizar tranquilamente siempre y cuando la distancia se acorte entre 0~0.3 de distancia, mas de alli deja de ser confiable, pero en esa poca diferencia de penalizacion, podria haber cambios drasticos en la estimacion etnica.

Ruderico
02-03-2021, 06:57 PM
Pero intenta siempre penalizar hasta que tenga cierto sentido, eso es lo que hago yo siempre. Se puede penalizar tranquilamente siempre y cuando la distancia se acorte entre 0~0.3 de distancia, mas de alli deja de ser confiable, pero en esa poca diferencia de penalizacion, podria haber cambios drasticos en la estimacion etnica.

Esto es con penalidad standard de nMonte, los resultados sin penalidad son una gilipollez

Shadogowah
02-03-2021, 07:14 PM
Lo que uno aprende, seria interesantisimo que la grandisima cantidad de Z195 que hay en Inglaterra y Gales sea debido a migrantes provenientes de aqui, fliparia.

La bandera española siempre la llevo en el corazon pero deje solo la venezolana evidentemente para completar el fachon que tengo en el perfil.

Por favor, vamos a dejar de ver vascos hasta en la sopa.

Hay clados de Z195 hasta en Rusia y Finlandia.

Es un haplogrupo muy antiguo (más de 4500 años) que vino del Este y dejaría un reguero de descendientes por el camino.

Para ponerlo en perspectiva, es incluso más sensato afirmar que DF27 es ibérico que Z195 es vasco.

mokordo
02-03-2021, 07:15 PM
Hay algun registro de ello? No sabia que hubo ciertas migraciones desde la peninsula a las islas, se que viceversa si las hubo, pero no tan significativo a nivel nacional.

Migraciones no, hablo de legiones destinadas en gran Bretaña, muchas tenían cohortes hispanas.En cuanto a funcionarios, es lógico pensar así, Hispania era provincia romana bastante antes que las zonas romanas de Gran Bretaña, por cercanía la mayoría serían galo-romanos, pero también habría hispano-romanos.

Me suena que hasta la guarnición del Oppidum de Vindolanda,que prtegía el famoso muro de Adriano, tuvo varios reemplazos de cohortes hispanas.

mokordo
02-03-2021, 07:19 PM
Migraciones no, hablo de legiones destinadas en gran Bretaña, muchas tenían cohortes hispanas.En cuanto a funcionarios, es lógico pensar así, Hispania era provincia romana bastante antes que las zonas romanas de Gran Bretaña, por cercanía la mayoría serían galo-romanos, pero también habría hispano-romanos.

Me suena que hasta la guarnición del Oppidum de Vindolanda,que prtegía el famoso muro de Adriano, tuvo varios reemplazos de cohortes hispanas.

Pues sí, solo mirando la wiki ya sale algo:


The garrison consisted of infantry or cavalry auxilia, not components of Roman legions. From the early third century onwards, this was the Cohors IV Gallorum equitata also known as the Fourth Cohort of Gauls. It had been presumed that this title was, by this time, purely nominal, with auxiliary troops being recruited locally, but an inscription found in a recent season of excavations suggests that native Gauls were still to be found in the regiment and that they liked to distinguish themselves from British soldiers.[4] The inscription reads:

CIVES GALLI
DE GALLIAE
CONCORDES
QUE BRITANNI

A translation of this is "The troops from Gaul dedicate this statue to the goddess Gallia with the full support of the British-born troops".[4]

Among the troops were Basque-speaking soldiers of the Varduli.[5]

Várdulos que hablaban vasco? Joder, si los Várdulos eran la más occidental de las tribus que más que ocupar el actual territorio de la CCAA vasca, apenas la rozaban por occidente. Curioso.

Edit:Los Várdulos estaban al este, no al oeste, siempre me equivoco en el orden de Várdulos, Caristios y Autrigones. Los confundí con estos últimos.

mokordo
02-03-2021, 07:27 PM
Y sobre esa cohorte(Cohors IV Gallorum):

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cohors_IV_Gallorum

Estuvo destinada anteriormente en la provincia actual de León.

En realidad las unidades romanas, se movían por todo el imperio,depende de la época estaban basadas en un sitio u otro según donde se necesitaran. Pero si había Várdulos, había hispano-romanos ahí, en este caso como eran auxiliares, podrían no estar muy mezclados con romanos.

Shadogowah
02-03-2021, 07:36 PM
Pues sí, solo mirando la wiki ya sale algo:



Várdulos que hablaban vasco? Joder, si los Várdulos eran la más occidental de las tribus que más que ocupar el actual territorio de la CCAA vasca, apenas la rozaban por occidente. Curioso.


Ehmm. Me parece que son los "celtas" más orientales y los que mayor contacto tenían con los vascones. De hecho se debate si era al revés y quizás fueran vascones "celtizados". Hacia el oeste tenías a caristios y autrigones.

Pero que te voy a contar a ti de las profundas implicaciones identitarias que conlleva tirar por un lado u otro.

mokordo
02-03-2021, 07:36 PM
Lo de que eran vasco-parlantes es una ida de olla, porque ni siquiera hay pruebas que los vascones lo fueran. Se lo han sacado de la manga porque esa tribu está situada en lo que hoy es el país vasco y el oeste del norte de Navarra.

Lo que sí se sabe, es que los vascones usaban uno de los signatarios ibéricos. Al menos en las monedas de la única ceca conocida vascona, lo usaban.

Shadogowah
02-03-2021, 07:40 PM
Por otra parte me suena que "Vardulia" es el nombre que bardos (je) y poetas usaban para referirse a la brumosa y primigenia Castilla.

Ellos veían en esos medio vascos-medio celtas sus míticas raíces ancestrales.

AlfonsoVIII
02-03-2021, 07:49 PM
Por favor, vamos a dejar de ver vascos hasta en la sopa.

Hay clados de Z195 hasta en Rusia y Finlandia.

Es un haplogrupo muy antiguo (más de 4500 años) que vino del Este y dejaría un reguero de descendientes por el camino.

Para ponerlo en perspectiva, es incluso más sensato afirmar que DF27 es ibérico que Z195 es vasco.

Pero alma de cántaro, que el muchacho no ha dicho nada de vascos, por Dios...

Evidentemente tienes razón, DF27 es un haplogrupo llegado aquí con los indoeuropeos y buena parte de ese DF27 que hay fuera de la Península no tiene por qué haber salido de aquí, como dices pueden perfectamente ser descendientes de aquellos primigenios DF27 que luego vinieron a la Península.

Pero es que nadie ha mencionado a los vascos. Es más, hoy en día la mayoría de ellos son DF27, pero el haplogrupo paterno vascón prerromano era I2a1.

Y por cierto tal y como decís tú y Mokordo los várdulos no eran vascos ni hablaban vasco. Desde el punto de vista lingüístico hablaban una lengua indoeuropea, lo más probable es que fuesen un pueblo celta más o menos emparentado con los cántabros y los celtíberos.

Pedro Ruben
02-03-2021, 08:05 PM
All the Iberian modern references, all the Berber references and a representative collection of main European ethnicities/nationalities.

UNSCALED




Spanish&Portuguese:_Alacant,0.0099667,0.0144333,0.0098667, 8.33e-05,0.0134333,-0.001,-0.0021833,0.0007667,0.0114833,0.0171833,-0.0031333,0.0056833,-0.0104167,-0.0085833,0.0077,0.0024667,-0.0011833,8.33e-05,-0.0032167,-0.00445,0.0032333,-0.0003333,-0.0034,-0.0014167,0.0026167
Spanish&Portuguese:_Andalucia,0.0095,0.0143842,0.0094684,-0.0010632,0.0147053,-0.0021,-0.0008211,0.0011526,0.0120842,0.0171,-0.0013263,0.0048526,-0.0088842,-0.0082895,0.0075474,-0.0018842,-0.0047368,-0.0008684,-0.0033895,-0.0017053,0.0023474,-0.0010526,-0.0016,-0.0044263,0.0015737
Spanish&Portuguese:_Aragon,0.0105,0.014425,0.010975,-1e-04,0.015225,-5e-05,-0.000225,0.001275,0.012175,0.02025,-0.001325,0.006875,-0.011875,-0.009325,0.0094,-0.0021,-0.00365,-0.000625,-0.001775,8e-04,0.002775,7.5e-05,-0.00095,-0.000875,-2e-04
Spanish&Portuguese:_Asturias,0.0097,0.0142,0.0121,2e-04,0.0168,-0.0026,-0.0031,0.003,0.0127,0.0172,-0.002,0.0054,-0.0128,-0.0066,0.0106,-0.0101,-0.0122,0.001,-0.0043,-7e-04,0.0055,-0.0049,-0.0013,0.0011,0.0054
Spanish&Portuguese:_Baleares,0.0102,0.0144667,0.0107667,-0.0008667,0.0132333,-8e-04,-0.0002333,0.0010667,0.0094,0.0160667,-0.0028,0.0053,-0.0101,-0.0091667,0.0029,0.0017,0.0015333,0.0008333,9e-04,-0.0035,0.0004333,5e-04,0.001,0.0002667,-0.0034333
Spanish&Portuguese:_Barcelones,0.01048,0.01468,0.01212,0.0 0144,0.01492,0.0012,0.00138,0.00158,0.0102,0.01626 ,-0.00256,0.0047,-0.00964,-0.0067,0.00572,-0.00032,-0.00468,-8e-05,0.00188,-0.00282,0.00286,-4e-05,-0.00324,-0.00302,0.00128
Spanish&Portuguese:_Camp_de_Tarragona,0.0104625,0.014225,0 .0111875,0.00065,0.0143625,-0.0002375,-0.0009375,0.000625,0.0099125,0.0152875,0.001,0.004 ,-0.0087625,-0.0096,0.0056125,0.001875,-0.0013375,0.0008625,-0.0006375,0.0002625,0.00125,0.0021125,-0.0007625,-0.004075,-0.0006125
Spanish&Portuguese:_Canarias,0.0071421,0.0143474,0.0080263 ,-0.0039947,0.0122947,-0.0022316,-0.0027632,0.0003526,0.0154526,0.0159421,-0.0003053,0.0035105,-0.0048263,-0.0098947,0.0081211,-0.0016579,-0.0021,-0.0027526,-0.0086263,0.0007895,0.0004842,-0.0052,0.0013316,-0.0028368,0.0014211
Spanish&Portuguese:_Cantabria,0.0105,0.0145333,0.0117667,0 .0018333,0.0152,-0.0021333,-0.0002333,0.0008333,0.0115333,0.0190667,-0.0034667,0.0057667,-0.0125333,-0.0122667,0.0067,0.0012333,-0.0027,0.001,-0.0043,-0.0038333,0.0022333,6e-04,-0.0048333,-0.0014667,0.0005667
Spanish&Portuguese:_Castello,0.0105714,0.0144,0.0115286,0. 0003571,0.0147143,-0.0005571,-5e-04,0.0005143,0.0117429,0.0191143,-0.0034571,0.0045714,-0.0107429,-0.0109857,0.0058,0.0035429,0.0021143,0.0011,-7e-04,-0.0002143,0.0046286,0.0003286,-0.0052,-0.0018,0.0004714
Spanish&Portuguese:_Castilla_La_Mancha,0.01015,0.014575,0. 0107,-0.001,0.013675,-0.001725,-0.000725,0.00075,0.01205,0.018625,-0.0013,0.0058,-0.010275,-0.009,0.007575,-8e-04,-0.004625,-0.00015,-1e-04,-0.00055,0.004375,0.0012,-0.00085,-0.003225,-9e-04
Spanish&Portuguese:_Castilla_Y_Leon,0.0094667,0.0141667,0. 0107333,-0.0006667,0.0142333,0.0006667,-0.0007333,0.002,0.0139,0.0160333,-0.0014333,0.0052333,-0.0081333,-0.0087333,0.0090333,-0.0049333,-0.0052,-0.0013667,-0.0036,-0.0018333,0.0002333,-0.0007333,0.0010667,-0.0021333,-0.0023
Spanish&Portuguese:_Cataluna,0.0100667,0.0144,0.0121667,0. 0007333,0.0153333,0,-0.0008667,0.0010333,0.0109333,0.0167333,-0.0011667,0.0057333,-0.0107667,-0.0077333,0.0065333,0.0012,-5e-04,-0.0013,-9e-04,-0.0007667,0.0049667,-0.0046333,-0.0031667,-0.0016,8e-04
Spanish&Portuguese:_Catalunya_Central,0.0109222,0.0147,0.0 117,0.0006556,0.0151667,0.0005889,-7.78e-05,0.0004222,0.0103222,0.0159,-0.0017778,0.0042889,-0.0100667,-0.0090111,0.0055778,0.0037556,0.0002444,0.0010444,-0.0006444,-0.0011222,0.0023556,0.0013444,-0.0005444,-0.0021778,-6e-04
Spanish&Portuguese:_Eivissa,0.0102077,0.0144462,0.0099846,-0.0012462,0.0129077,-0.0012231,0.0001154,0.0013615,0.0101,0.0164154,-0.0015538,0.0049538,-0.0082231,-0.0062154,0.0065,0.0007308,-0.0028231,-0.0023077,-0.0018923,-0.0031846,0.0026077,0.0014692,-0.0014154,-0.0001538,-0.0012308
Spanish&Portuguese:_Extremadura,0.0092333,0.0147667,0.0087 667,-0.0003667,0.0133,-0.001,-0.0017,-0.0004333,0.0120667,0.0171333,-8e-04,0.0033667,-0.0071333,-0.0089,0.0055667,0.0019667,-0.0018,-0.0026,-0.0051,0.0003333,0.0017,-0.0038333,-0.0012,-0.0023,0.0012
Spanish&Portuguese:_Galicia,0.0095556,0.0144222,0.0108889,-0.0005111,0.0133889,-3.33e-05,-0.0023222,0.00105,0.0120833,0.0164778,-0.0013111,0.0038278,-0.0084833,-0.0088333,0.0082111,0.0004444,-0.00325,-0.0017056,-0.0040111,-0.0008056,7e-04,-0.0023444,-0.0006556,-0.0030556,0.0010889
Spanish&Portuguese:_Girona,0.01066,0.01437,0.01111,0.00102 ,0.01338,0.00058,-0.00019,0.00146,0.00977,0.01695,-0.00127,0.00592,-0.00905,-0.0098,0.00558,0.0023,0.00157,-0.00049,0.00133,-0.00218,0.00227,-0.00081,-0.00028,0.00011,-0.00138
Spanish&Portuguese:_La_Rioja,0.0107,0.015,0.0124,-0.0026,0.0175,-0.0038,-8e-04,0.001,0.0135,0.0213,-0.0033,0.0038,-0.0114,-0.0108,0.0049,0.0103,0.0081,-0.0019,-5e-04,4e-04,0.0104,0.0019,-0.0018,-0.0078,7e-04
Spanish&Portuguese:_Lleida,0.0107333,0.0144556,0.0114,0.00 06333,0.0143778,-0.0005444,0.0002778,0.0009111,0.0110444,0.0163556,-0.0005667,0.0059667,-0.0110333,-0.0099222,0.0061889,0.0001778,-0.0010889,0.0005111,0.001,-0.0007222,0.0059222,0.0002667,-0.0013778,-0.0006556,-0.0005333
Spanish&Portuguese:_Mallorca,0.0103333,0.0145667,0.0103222 ,0.0003333,0.0128,-0.0004889,0.0001667,0.0013333,0.0085111,0.0153333,-0.0018667,0.0041889,-0.0104667,-0.0061111,0.0047444,0.0019,0.0010444,0.0011556,-7e-04,-0.0010778,0.0007778,0.0006111,-0.0014222,0.0001667,-2e-04
Spanish&Portuguese:_Menorca,0.0101667,0.0145333,0.0097667,-0.0018667,0.0139,-6e-04,6e-04,6.67e-05,0.0106,0.0161,-0.0013667,0.0062,-0.0097,-0.0052667,0.0023667,-0.0021667,-0.0021667,0.0011,-7e-04,-0.0014333,0.0026333,0.0015667,0.0008667,-0.0055,-0.0049
Spanish&Portuguese:_Murcia,0.0096,0.014075,0.01005,-0.0018,0.014775,-0.00075,-0.002125,-0.00145,0.01235,0.017675,-0.0021,0.002275,-0.008325,-0.00785,0.003475,-0.001075,0.000775,0.000675,-5e-05,8e-04,0.004025,-0.002375,-0.00055,-0.0025,0.00165
Spanish&Portuguese:_Navarra,0.0105,0.0144,0.0117333,-0.0002333,0.0158333,-0.0004333,-0.0013667,-0.0006333,0.0122,0.0212333,-0.0030667,0.0076667,-0.0102667,-0.0123667,0.0115333,0.0021333,-0.0067,0.0008667,-0.0019667,-0.0020333,0.0037333,0.0020667,-0.0056333,3.33e-05,0.0039667
Spanish&Portuguese:_Pais_Vasco,0.0112667,0.0149333,0.01493 33,0.0025,0.0169333,0.0008667,1e-04,0.0012667,0.0135667,0.0218667,-0.0036333,0.0062333,-0.0141667,-0.0087667,0.0135667,-0.0018667,-0.0094667,0.0022667,0.0017667,-0.0052667,0.0062,-0.0019667,-0.0053,-0.0056,0.0030667
Spanish&Portuguese:Basque_Spanish,0.0115889,0.0148111,0.01 54556,0.0027889,0.0187111,4.44e-05,-0.0014111,0.0001778,0.0153333,0.0250222,-0.0027889,0.0077444,-0.0153222,-0.0136333,0.0132222,0.0028111,-0.0044556,0.0021889,-0.0014444,-5.56e-05,0.0070444,0.0020111,-0.0055889,-0.0075,0.0018889
Spanish&Portuguese:_Penedes,0.0107,0.0143636,0.0108364,0.0 014636,0.0136636,0.0006636,-0.0010273,0.0003455,0.0090091,0.0154909,-0.0008364,0.0036,-0.0108545,-0.0100636,0.0074182,0.0010727,0.0014727,0.0015182, 8.18e-05,-9e-04,0.0013818,-0.0005182,-0.0022455,-0.0013909,0.0003545
Spanish&Portuguese:_Peri-Barcelona,0.01065,0.01474,0.01096,0.00047,0.01449, 9e-05,0.00023,0.00058,0.01049,0.01648,-0.00107,0.00467,-0.00923,-0.00898,0.0054,0.00095,6e-05,-2e-04,-0.00059,-0.00109,0.00217,0.00067,-0.00119,-0.00035,0.00191
Spanish&Portuguese:_Pirineu,0.0107167,0.0144333,0.0113167, 8e-04,0.0146167,-3e-04,-0.0003667,0.0019,0.0124167,0.0188333,-0.0014167,0.0064167,-0.00995,-0.00905,0.0051833,0.0003333,-0.0011,3e-04,-0.0035333,-0.0012833,0.0029667,-5e-04,-0.0023,-0.00535,0.0015167
Spanish&Portuguese:_Soria,0.0107,0.014,0.01325,0.00235,0.0 1545,0.00045,-0.00125,-0.00055,0.0101,0.02055,-0.00645,0.0076,-0.0117,-0.0166,0.0084,0.01095,0.0104,-0.0023,-0.00325,-0.00055,-0.00025,-0.00115,-0.00305,-0.0049,-0.00175
Spanish&Portuguese:_Terres_de_l'Ebre,0.01072,0.01446,0.010 98,-0.00054,0.01392,-0.00158,-6e-05,0.00196,0.00918,0.01808,-0.00202,0.00522,-0.01118,-0.00808,0.0071,-0.00256,-0.00406,-0.00054,0.00032,0.00026,0.00232,6e-04,-0.0029,-0.00448,-0.00108
Spanish&Portuguese:_Valencia,0.0103667,0.0142417,0.0108333 ,-0.000275,0.0151,-0.0005167,-0.00085,0.0007083,0.011325,0.01825,-0.00185,0.0055583,-0.00865,-0.0089667,0.007075,-0.0006417,-0.0036,-0.0013583,-0.0009833,-0.0007333,0.0044667,-0.0011083,-0.0016583,-0.0042667,0.0017167
Spanish&Portuguese:Portuguese,0.009328,0.01424,0.009548,-0.001372,0.013692,-0.001452,-0.001592,0.001196,0.012516,0.01632,-0.000452,0.004952,-0.008568,-0.008184,0.009252,-3e-04,-0.000868,-7e-04,-0.004584,-0.000196,0.000912,-0.00208,0.001056,-0.00094,-8.8e-05
British_Isles:Irish,0.0117165,0.0132047,0.01622,0. 0151282,0.0122788,0.0069388,0.0014012,0.0020424,0. 0017447,0.0016059,-0.0042929,0.0038965,-0.0095447,-0.0102282,0.0191094,0.0039329,-0.0085482,0.0014953,0.0004753,0.00142,0.0040988,0. 0010341,0.0002376,0.0119565,0.0005518
British_Isles:English,0.0115842,0.0134947,0.016384 2,0.0136263,0.0127474,0.0060053,0.0021211,0.002489 5,0.0025737,0.0031158,-0.0029368,0.0037474,-0.0084684,-0.0075211,0.0151895,0.0026789,-0.0079526,0.0032316,0.0029316,0.0023684,0.0047579, 0.0027526,-0.0026526,0.0114474,2.63e-05
British_Isles:Scottish,0.01155,0.0132179,0.0165107 ,0.0145643,0.0127071,0.0061964,0.0015107,0.0022429 ,0.0017464,0.00155,-0.0034571,0.0033679,-0.0078571,-0.0087,0.0169643,0.0023571,-0.0086321,0.0021893,0.0020286,0.0011607,0.0033857, 0.002675,-0.0005321,0.01125,-0.0006429
British_Isles:English_Cornwall,0.0114385,0.0137615 ,0.0162692,0.0133692,0.0136154,0.0058846,0.0014615 ,0.0027692,0.0031692,0.0038231,-0.0028538,0.0043231,-0.0092462,-0.0074462,0.0152923,0.0023923,-0.0096077,0.0016692,0.0029923,0.0025923,0.0038538, 0.0031308,-0.0006154,0.0119231,0.0005769
Berber:Berber_Algeria,-0.0258,0.010355,0.00053,-0.012405,0.004695,-0.004425,-0.015605,0.009125,0.01317,0.011815,0.003545,-0.00302,0.01434,-0.0054,0.00842,-0.00666,0.002395,-0.008745,-0.01834,0.00399,-0.0059,-0.01588,0.00988,-3e-04,0.002215
Berber:Berber_MAR_ERR,-0.0081143,0.0128929,-0.0008714,-0.0220429,0.0083357,-0.01165,-0.0132857,0.0043786,0.0329286,0.0164214,0.0060643,-0.0039857,0.0145714,-0.0117286,0.0148786,-0.0106643,-0.0045857,-0.0168643,-0.0367,0.0075786,-0.0131857,-0.0336643,0.0201286,-0.0017143,0.0044857
Berber:Berber_MAR_TIZ,-0.0090071,0.0129643,-0.0006143,-0.0235143,0.0100929,-0.0127857,-0.0142571,0.0052071,0.0374786,0.0173214,0.0054286,-0.0061786,0.0166357,-0.0148357,0.0149929,-0.0118571,8.57e-05,-0.0227571,-0.0425,0.0095286,-0.0166857,-0.0413357,0.0249429,-0.0043071,0.0062357
Berber:Berber_Tunisia_Chen,-0.0024556,0.0136944,-0.0021444,-0.0236778,0.0090111,-0.0126222,-0.0133556,0.0022889,0.0334556,0.01635,0.0024667,-0.0029278,0.0132056,-0.0117167,0.0103833,-0.01275,0.0001167,-0.0183833,-0.0371722,0.0062833,-0.0134889,-0.0326944,0.0228278,-0.0036944,0.0053167
Berber:Berber_Tunisia_Sen,-0.0034353,0.0132706,-0.0050294,-0.0241176,0.0061118,-0.0127529,-0.0092176,0.0025412,0.0282059,0.0112824,0.0034765,-0.0081647,0.0177059,-0.0068353,0.0091941,-0.0037765,-0.0043647,-0.0103941,-0.0241353,0.0092118,-0.0068235,-0.0195588,0.0121706,-4.12e-05,0.0004588
Berber:Tunisian_Berber_Matmata,-0.0045571,0.0130714,-0.0027286,-0.0229214,0.0073929,-0.0119214,-0.0106071,0.0021571,0.0282786,0.0153786,0.0033,-0.0038071,0.0143,-0.0105071,0.0095286,-0.0077643,0.00015,-0.0126357,-0.0285357,0.0059714,-0.00915,-0.0244929,0.0166143,-0.0016214,0.003
Berber:Tunisian_Berber_Tamezret,-0.00303,0.01328,-0.00248,-0.02414,0.00868,-0.01264,-0.01096,0.00331,0.02962,0.01652,0.00343,-0.0051,0.0135,-0.01236,0.01022,-0.00812,0.00143,-0.01669,-0.03181,0.00791,-0.00868,-0.02783,0.0194,-0.00239,0.00567
Berber:Tunisian_Berber_Zraoua,-0.0025267,0.0135267,-0.0034733,-0.0242267,0.0075533,-0.01174,-0.01242,0.00192,0.0306933,0.0158067,0.0038467,-0.00538,0.0150867,-0.0090667,0.01086,-0.0097133,-0.00514,-0.0139333,-0.03062,0.0067133,-0.0099733,-0.0242333,0.0180067,-0.00202,0.00254
Slav:Belarusian,0.01162,0.0121733,0.0198933,0.0215 467,0.0130733,0.0095267,0.0045667,0.0057733,-0.0001333,-0.0135,-0.00166,-0.0061467,0.013,0.0197867,-0.0083,-0.0028667,-0.00074,0.0002933,0.0032933,-0.00084,-0.0033933,-0.0037267,0.0062667,-0.0056933,0.00058
Slav:Ukrainian,0.0115027,0.0122189,0.0181243,0.017 8189,0.0122459,0.0076351,0.0037297,0.0049,-0.0014135,-0.0115784,-0.0010054,-0.0051108,0.0103297,0.0157189,-0.0082784,-0.000827,0.0035973,-0.0005514,0.0020676,0.0013595,-0.0036054,-0.0028135,0.0054676,-0.0033676,0.0006027
German:German,0.0114443,0.0135278,0.0153747,0.0119 835,0.0129987,0.0056101,0.0017304,0.0025076,0.0017 241,0.0010316,-0.0027177,0.0015835,-0.0036127,-0.0018468,0.0062722,0.0024823,-0.0025101,0.0013127,0.0026785,0.0013747,0.0025165, 0.0016215,5.82e-05,0.0068924,0.0002316
German:Dutch,0.0111359,0.0129297,0.0162,0.0142875, 0.01315,0.0059609,0.0027844,0.0035016,0.0017484,0. 0001797,-0.0039688,0.0030609,-0.0058578,-0.006425,0.0128531,0.0040312,-0.0063,0.001,0.0033969,0.00225,0.0037594,0.0023188 ,0.0002172,0.0127422,-0.0004109
Balkan:Albanian,0.0103833,0.0139583,0.004125,-0.0049167,0.008175,-0.0026583,0.0014333,0.0007833,0.000325,0.00885,0.0 006833,0.0010333,-0.004775,0.0048,-0.0142167,-0.0031333,0.0062333,0.0011833,0.0066,-0.00475,-0.0044583,0.0005833,0.0019667,0.001825,-0.0021083
Balkan:Macedonian:Central,0.0107,0.0148,0.0045,-0.0011,0.0065,-0.0018,0.0031,0.0015,0.0009,0.005,-0.0054,-0.0011,-0.0031,0.0001,-0.0098,-0.0006,0.0073,-0.0025,0.0018,-0.0069,-0.0082,0.0003,0.0089,0.0022,-0.006
Scandinavian:Swedish,0.0117667,0.0126333,0.0191095 ,0.0174333,0.0132905,0.0076857,0.0030048,0.0040286 ,0.0024,-0.003619,-0.0029571,0.0010095,-0.0031286,-0.0027857,0.0110524,0.0030286,-0.0055476,0.001581,0.0027714,0.0039,0.0056714,0.00 18429,0.0009143,0.0088476,-0.0008143
Scandinavian:Norwegian,0.0117571,0.0126,0.0180143, 0.0165429,0.0125571,0.0075429,0.0017857,0.0027286, 0.0028,0.0002143,-0.0023,0.0024571,-0.0050571,-0.0085,0.0155286,0.0070857,-0.0041571,0.0020571,0.0005429,6e-04,0.0045143,0.0045,0.0034714,0.0147143,0.0009143
Italian:_Tuscany,0.01042,0.0146467,0.0036067,-0.0063467,0.0085,-0.0032467,-2e-04,-6e-04,0.0036667,0.0131133,-0.00014,0.00364,-0.00798,-0.00334,-0.0017533,-0.00022,0.0030933,0.00038,0.00306,-0.0019133,-0.0009667,0.0019933,-0.0008467,0.00322,-0.0013267
Italian:_Lazio,0.010075,0.015025,0.001775,-0.01085,0.006925,-0.00415,0.00105,0.000225,0.00335,0.012875,8e-04,0.0019,-0.00515,-0.00515,-0.00505,0.003125,-0.000175,-4e-04,0.00145,-0.00405,-0.0022,0.002725,-3e-04,-3e-04,-4e-04
Italian:_Liguria,0.01,0.0144,0.0072,-0.0037,0.0095,-8e-04,0.001,5e-04,0.0047,0.0139,-0.006,0.0019,-0.0088,8e-04,-8e-04,-0.0094,-0.0051,-3e-04,0.003,6e-04,-2e-04,8e-04,0.0032,6e-04,5e-04
Levant:Palestinian_Beit_Sahour,0.0077,0.01445,-0.01435,-0.0263,-0.0051,-0.0083,-0.0023,-0.0022,0.00575,0.00565,0.0021,-0.00385,0.00735,-0.0038,-0.0036,0.0109,0.00755,0.00155,-1e-04,-9e-04,-0.00135,0.00315,0.00285,0.00445,0.0028



Target: Pedro
Distance: 0.8984% / 0.00898441
57.6 Spanish&Portuguese
22.0 Italian
12.2 British_Isles
8.0 Berber
0.2 Slav

Target: Dad
Distance: 0.9353% / 0.00935293
66.0 Spanish&Portuguese
13.4 Berber
13.0 Italian
7.6 Slav

Target: Mom
Distance: 0.8571% / 0.00857099
79.2 Spanish&Portuguese
15.8 British_Isles
2.8 Berber
2.2 Levant

Luso
02-03-2021, 08:13 PM
^ this is what I mean by high isles percentage which I said in Portuguese thread btw

I don’t get any of this.

Shadogowah
02-03-2021, 08:15 PM
Pero alma de cántaro, que el muchacho no ha dicho nada de vascos, por Dios...

Evidentemente tienes razón, DF27 es un haplogrupo llegado aquí con los indoeuropeos y buena parte de ese DF27 que hay fuera de la Península no tiene por qué haber salido de aquí, como dices pueden perfectamente ser descendientes de aquellos primigenios DF27 que luego vinieron a la Península.

Pero es que nadie ha mencionado a los vascos. Es más, hoy en día la mayoría de ellos son DF27, pero el haplogrupo paterno vascón prerromano era I2a1.

Y por cierto tal y como decís tú y Mokordo los várdulos no eran vascos ni hablaban vasco. Desde el punto de vista lingüístico hablaban una lengua indoeuropea, lo más probable es que fuesen un pueblo celta más o menos emparentado con los cántabros y los celtíberos.

Lo ha hecho en otros posts. CULPABLE!

Las gentes que habitaban en la periferia del territorio vascón por lo que he aprendido en conferencias y presentaciones, parece que eran heterogéneas. Había villorrios y topónimos vascones y otros celtas.

Pero vamos, que la madre del cordero y dónde he metido la pata es al dejarme llevar por la cuestión geográfica e identificar a los várdulos con TODOS los habitantes de un territorio concreto. Lo cierto es que lo compartían en gran medida con los vascones y tal como apunta mokordo, de ahí las confusiones.

https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A1rdulos#/media/Archivo%3AIberia_300BC-es.svg

mokordo
02-03-2021, 09:05 PM
Por otra parte me suena que "Vardulia" es el nombre que bardos (je) y poetas usaban para referirse a la brumosa y primigenia Castilla.

Ellos veían en esos medio vascos-medio celtas sus míticas raíces ancestrales.

Sí, de hecho existe la hipótesis, que sería una consecuencia de lo que se llama "vasconización tardía", de que ante el avance de los Aquitanos (estos sí hablaban protovasco en su mayoría), los Várdulos y las otras tribus fueron desplazadas hacia la periferia del actual País Vasco, y justo en esas zonas fronterizas es donde nacería lo que después sería Castilla, entre el Norte de Burgos y la zona occidental de Álava y sud-occidental de Vizcaya. En documentos de las primeras fases de la edad media, eso que se llama edad oscura, se meciona mucho Vardulia, en toda esa zona, cuando originalmente esa tribu estaba mucho más al este, como dices.

Se supone que todas las gentes desplazadas que no fueron asimiladas o eliminadas por el avance Aquitano/Vascón se fundieron en un solo grupo llamado genéricamente Várdulos.

Pero eso es ya edad media, cuando la romanización, los Várdulos estaban en la frontera con los vascones, con los Berones al sur, y el Cantábrico al norte.

http://diccionario.sensagent.com/V%C3%A1rdulos/es-es/

De todas formas, la localización de las tribus varió según que autor y qué momento y su situación es siempre aproximada.

Ahí dice se puede leer:


Se discute si estaban emparentados a cántabros, celtas, celtíberos[2] o vascones,[3] aunque lo cierto es que los nombres de sus ciudades son claramente indoeuropeos, cuando no típicamente célticos, como ocurre con Uxama (desde ups-ama "la más alta"), Deobriga (desde deiuo-briga "colina divina"), Tulloniom (desde Tulno o Tullo "valle"), Suessatiom (desde Su-sta-tiom, literalmente "buen asentamiento" y relacionado con los galos Suessones) o los eventuales Brigantiom reflejados por los actuales Bergüenda y Berganzo (Álava). Por otro lado, no se constata ningún topónimo vinculable al eusko-aquitano con formas Iltur-, -berri, -egi/-eki, tan habituales en el Pirineo navarro.

Curiosamente muchas de esas formas atribuidas al proto-vasco existían por toda la península, por ejemplo Iliberri, que no se conoce la localización exacta, pero que estaba en la actual provincia de Granada:


Se ha planteado el posible origen vasco del topónimo Iliberri, dado que contiene el sufijo -berri tan frecuente en el euskera. Así, se ha postulado que Iliberri corresponda al vasco iri-berri (pueblo nuevo), lo que podría evidenciar la relación entre el íbero y el euskera, aunque esta tesis se encuentra aún en discusión. Según la doctrina dominante, el topónimo tiene un origen ibérico y procede de il-iber-is, presentando el prefijo il-, muy frecuente en topónimos ibéricos (Illunum, Ilipa, Ilurcis, Iliturgi, Ilurbida, Ilarcuris), y la raíz iber, identificada como el nombre que los íberos dieron al río Ebro, así como con los propios íberos. No obstante, hay que indicar que iber probablemente procede del vasco ibar, que significa "río", lo que llama la atención teniendo en cuenta que los íberos llamaron iber a un río y que otros topónimos ibéricos que contienen esa partícula, además de Iliberri, están situados junto a ríos.3​ Julio Caro Baroja4​ señala Iliberri como "ciudad nueva", proveniente probablemente del íbero, y más que probablemente de la misma familia que el vasco y el aquitano antiguo.

Y también el nombre exacto de la cohorte que en algún momento formó parte de la defensa del muro de Adriano:


Una unidad de Várdulos, la Cohors I Fida Vardulorum Miliaria Equitata Civium Romanorum, estuvo muchos años de guarnición en el Muro de Adriano al norte de Gran Bretaña, y en algún momento se ganaron el título de fida (fieles) por algún servicio al Emperador olvidado hoy en día.

alejandromb92
02-03-2021, 09:16 PM
Por favor, vamos a dejar de ver vascos hasta en la sopa.

Hay clados de Z195 hasta en Rusia y Finlandia.

Es un haplogrupo muy antiguo (más de 4500 años) que vino del Este y dejaría un reguero de descendientes por el camino.

Para ponerlo en perspectiva, es incluso más sensato afirmar que DF27 es ibérico que Z195 es vasco.

Una cosa, yo no he mencionado la palabra "vasco" en mis sentencias anteriores, por si acaso.

mokordo
02-03-2021, 09:17 PM
Así que cualquiera que lea un poco del tema y sepa atar cabos, puede dar por muy posible que los Aquitanos eran un prolongación Ibérica más allá de los pirineos, que usaban una lengua relacionada o directamente íbera, y que cuando se perdió en la península, la trajeron consigo de nuevo (evolucionada y diferente por supuesto, pero emparentada con la antigua de la península), cuando aprovechando el vacío de la caída del imperio romano y el descontrol inicial de los primeros visigodos, entraron de nuevo en la península, ocupando lo que hoy es el país vasco, y desplazando, asimilando o eliminando a la población local. Genéticamente cercana, pero romanizada.

No sé si hay alguien que haya formulado así toda la historia, o si todo así relatado es solo algo de mi invención, pero me parece algo muy creíble.

mokordo
02-03-2021, 09:20 PM
^ this is what I mean by high isles percentage which I said in Portuguese thread btw

I don’t get any of this.

And because in sources there are many other components that could be confused with british isles usual components.

When I did the model I thought in Pedro Rubén too, I saw he scoring near 25% in British isles components.

alejandromb92
02-03-2021, 09:22 PM
Pero alma de cántaro, que el muchacho no ha dicho nada de vascos, por Dios...

Evidentemente tienes razón, DF27 es un haplogrupo llegado aquí con los indoeuropeos y buena parte de ese DF27 que hay fuera de la Península no tiene por qué haber salido de aquí, como dices pueden perfectamente ser descendientes de aquellos primigenios DF27 que luego vinieron a la Península.

Pero es que nadie ha mencionado a los vascos. Es más, hoy en día la mayoría de ellos son DF27, pero el haplogrupo paterno vascón prerromano era I2a1.

Y por cierto tal y como decís tú y Mokordo los várdulos no eran vascos ni hablaban vasco. Desde el punto de vista lingüístico hablaban una lengua indoeuropea, lo más probable es que fuesen un pueblo celta más o menos emparentado con los cántabros y los celtíberos.

Gaur joan naiz, eguraldi bikaina egin du... Ha perdona, es que a veces me pongo a hablar en euskera y no me doy ni cuenta :lmao

Yo creo que el DF27 como tal no significa nada, pero ya los clados siguientes si mas o menos uno puede ubicarlos geograficamente, sobretodo los que van despues de Z195. Fijate la cantidad aberrante de ingleses DF27 en el Poll que hice, y todos Z195, a mi me parece curioso porque no hay muestras antes de los romanos que tengan este haplogrupo en las Islas, por eso de cierta manera puede tener sentido, pero que es algo improbable.

mokordo
02-03-2021, 09:37 PM
Gaur joan naiz, eguraldi bikaina egin du... Ha perdona, es que a veces me pongo a hablar en euskera y no me doy ni cuenta :lmao

.

Que daño hacen los traductores automáticos.

Pero bueno, se entiende lo que pretendías decir.

gaur joan naiz=hoy he ido (a donde???)

eguraldi bikaina egin du=supongo que querías decir "ha hecho un día excelente", pero eso es una traducción literal que no tiene mucho sentido , parece decir alguien(omitido) ha hecho un tiempo excelente.

Tampoco soy experto ni euskaldunzarra, pero creo que sería más correcto decir "gaur eguraldi bikaina izan da".

Que me corrija Xabi si me equivoco.

mokordo
02-03-2021, 09:41 PM
Bueno, dejo el tema.

Shadogowah
02-03-2021, 09:53 PM
Una cosa, yo no he mencionado la palabra "vasco" en mis sentencias anteriores, por si acaso.

Has identificado el Z195 con los vascos. Varias veces.

AlfonsoVIII
02-03-2021, 09:57 PM
Has identificado el Z195 con los vascos. Varias veces.

Hasta donde yo sé sólo ha identificado con los vascos el M153, no Z195 en toda su extensión.

alejandromb92
02-03-2021, 10:00 PM
Has identificado el Z195 con los vascos. Varias veces.

El M153 es el que yo he identificado como marcador vasco, y el M167 como catalán.

Shadogowah
02-03-2021, 10:07 PM
Hasta donde yo sé sólo ha identificado con los vascos el M153, no Z195 en toda su extensión.

Pues nada, habré metido la pata y llevado por el celo inquisidor he leído más de lo que se afirma. Me someto a penitencia.

Los vascos y pirenaicos en general son los más Z195, el resto es más ZZ12

AlfonsoVIII
02-03-2021, 10:11 PM
Los vascos y pirenaicos en general son los más Z195, el resto es más ZZ12

Sí, son los más Z195, pero dentro de ahí son casi exclusivamente M153, casi no hay vascos de otras ramas Z195, menos aún de otras ramas de DF27, y ya ni te digo otras ramas R1b.

Shadogowah
02-03-2021, 10:26 PM
Sí, son los más Z195, pero dentro de ahí son casi exclusivamente M153, casi no hay vascos de otras ramas Z195, menos aún de otras ramas de DF27, y ya ni te digo otras ramas R1b.

De otras ramas de Z195 no se (como es obvio por mi cagada anterior) pero de otras de DF27 hay a cascoporro incluyendo la mía.

La "gracia" del M153 es que es casi exclusiva de los vascos pero si no recuerdo mal no es ni por asomo la dominante.

JJJ
02-03-2021, 10:36 PM
Pues nada, habré metido la pata y llevado por el celo inquisidor he leído más de lo que se afirma. Me someto a penitencia.

Los vascos y pirenaicos en general son los más Z195, el resto es más ZZ12

Que piensas de esto? parece afirmar que Andalucía occidental no tiene nada que ver con los astur-leoneses a pesar de que tengan una configuración genética parecida.


The problem is not only the highly implausible relation between Asturias-León and West Andalusia, which the authors seem to believe product of historical colonization at the time of the Reconquista (13th century) but which makes no sense whatsoever because the Kingdom of Seville was never part of the barely autonomous Kindgom of León but an administrative division of Castile (of which León was by then just a dependency) and we should thus see at least some important influence of the Central (yellow triangles) cluster, which is dominant in Valladolid, Madrid and even the city (but not the countryside) of Burgos, and we do not see anything like that.


También afirma que el norteafricano de Galicia/Asturias es de origen antiguo (Neolitico o edad de los metales) y en el tercio sur de origen musulmán.


What do exactly these contributor components mean? Hard to say, although part of the Italian and North Moroccan elements could well be related to historical episodes such as Roman and Muslim conquests. But only partly so,because the North African in Galicia just cannot be that high only from a Muslim conquest that was very limited in time, nor should we expect to be that much "Muslim" nor "Roman" in the remote and largely ignored area of modern Portugal: there must be more ancient origins, probably dating to the Neolithic, Chalcolithic or Bronze Age.

minor West Sahara contribution
And in the case of the North African component we may have a guide in a minor West Saharan contribution (at right), which may well reflect an older and "purer" form of North Africanness and which is againcon centrated in Portugal and Galicia, with extension to parts of the Central Plateau but does not affect the South, the area where we should expect most of the Muslim period's genetic influence.

We cannot trace a line in Portugal because of the uncertainty of the geographic origins of the samples but we can do it within the boundaries of Spain and that line suggests that the Muslim genetic influence could be intense by the Southern third and maybe all the way to Zamora by the Western part but should not be relevant in Galicia nor Asturias nor (inferred, uncertain) much of Portugal. That in these areas, the North African element is peculiar and looks older than the Emirate/Caliphate of Cordoba.

http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com/2018/03/iberian-genetic-clusters.html

mokordo
02-03-2021, 10:49 PM
Que piensas de esto? parece afirmar que Andalucía occidental no tiene nada que ver con los astur-leoneses a pesar de que tengan una configuración genética parecida.



También afirma que el norteafricano de Galicia/Asturias es de origen antiguo (Neolitico o edad de los metales) y en el tercio sur de origen musulmán.



http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com/2018/03/iberian-genetic-clusters.html

Bueno, en realidad dice "no todo ello es achacable a la época romana o de la dominación musulmana".

Por otra parte lo de siempre, "ya que tampoco estuvieron tanto tiempo por esa zona", parte de ese aporte puede venir por los movimientos de población posteriores a la reconquista.

Así que lo de siempre, aporte de África pre-musulmán y pre-romano antiguo parece estar presente, eso decimos todos, pero difícil de cuantificar.

¿No dice como diferencia el elemento norteafricano "antiguo" del moderno? Osea como identifica ese "older and "purer" form of North Africanness ".

Shadogowah
02-03-2021, 10:50 PM
Que piensas de esto? parece afirmar que Andalucía occidental no tiene nada que ver con los astur-leoneses a pesar de que tengan una configuración genética parecida.



También afirma que el norteafricano de Galicia/Asturias es de origen antiguo (Neolitico o edad de los metales) y en el tercio sur de origen musulmán.



http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com/2018/03/iberian-genetic-clusters.html

Esta debe ser mi penitencia.

Estaba empezando a responder en serio pero como ya te voy calando y eres un cachondo... Estas majaderías que me pones de dónde las has sacado?

mokordo
02-03-2021, 10:52 PM
Esta debe ser mi penitencia.

Estaba empezando a responder en serio pero como ya te voy calando y eres un cachondo... Estas majaderías que me pones de dónde las has sacado?

PorLoQueFueronSomos se llama el blog. Tiene pinta de tener algún trasfondo nacionalista-identitario.

JJJ
02-03-2021, 10:54 PM
Bueno, en realidad dice "no todo ello es achacable a la época romana o de la dominación musulmana".

Por otra parte lo de siempre, "ya que tampoco estuvieron tanto tiempo por esa zona", parte de ese aporte puede venir por los movimientos de población posteriores a la reconquista.

Así que lo de siempre, aporte de África pre-musulmán y pre-romano antiguo parece estar presente, eso decimos todos, pero difícil de cuantificar.

¿No dice como diferencia el elemento norteafricano "antiguo" del moderno? Osea como identifica ese "older and "purer" form of North Africanness ".

Supongo que tiene que ver con esto, influencia "western Sahara".

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-78y9qZ4oAgc/Wr8gOGEq0UI/AAAAAAAADzA/8vFqiubMp6MqaVJa_TZMPDuHe101ZRB7gCLcBGAs/s1600/WSahara.png

JJJ
02-03-2021, 10:56 PM
Esta debe ser mi penitencia.

Estaba empezando a responder en serio pero como ya te voy calando y eres un cachondo... Estas majaderías que me pones de dónde las has sacado?

Le di a buscar por imagen del famoso cluster ibérico y me encontré con ese blog, hay gente de Anthrogenica comentando incluso. En los comentarios saca a pasear el tema de los haplogrupos paternos que no tienen nada que ver el reino de león con andalucía occidental.

Solo me pareció curioso xd

Shadogowah
02-03-2021, 11:07 PM
PorLoQueFueronSomos se llama el blog. Tiene pinta de tener algún trasfondo nacionalista-identitario.

Lo es.

Pero vayamos a los argumentos.

Del primer texto posteado saco dos conclusiones: por un lado el autor no concibe que el reino de Sevilla fuera colonizado principalmente por leoneses porque León ya no era un reino independiente (!?) y por el otro parece que el tipo cree que Valladolid y Burgos están en León.

Los libros que tratan de la historia de Sevilla dicen que acompañando al Rey Fernando llegaron un porrón de caballeros y nobles leoneses y algún gallego (leales súbditos del rey de Castilla, LEÓN y GALICIA) que fueron los que mayormente se repartieron el bacalao tras la conquista. Los colonos vinieron sobretodo de los territorios que formaban parte del antiguo reino de León. Además de que sospecho que la Castilla del momento era mas bien pequeña y tenía menos población.

"and we should thus see at least some important influence of the Central (yellow triangles) cluster," because of my brown balls.

A los descendientes de colonos castellanos parece que los tienes en Córdoba con una línea perfectamente delimitada, vaya.

Lo de la movida norteafricana me la leo mañana pero ateniéndome a la filiación política del autor supongo que es el enésimo intento de esconder a la abuela mora en el armario, al menos respecto a los vecinos, no vaya a ser que se manche.

mokordo
02-03-2021, 11:07 PM
Supongo que tiene que ver con esto, influencia "western Sahara".

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-78y9qZ4oAgc/Wr8gOGEq0UI/AAAAAAAADzA/8vFqiubMp6MqaVJa_TZMPDuHe101ZRB7gCLcBGAs/s1600/WSahara.png

Juas, parece que desplazados de Granada hicieron el camino hasta Galicia, y hasta que no se alejaron lo suficiente (sur de Madrid) no empezaron a asentarse.

JJJ
02-03-2021, 11:17 PM
PorLoQueFueronSomos se llama el blog. Tiene pinta de tener algún trasfondo nacionalista-identitario.

Pos el tío es marxista-bakuninista y además ¡Orwelliano! (abajo de todo en información sobre mí)

https://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204

Cabaon
02-03-2021, 11:18 PM
Juas, parece que desplazados de Granada hicieron el camino hasta Galicia, y hasta que no se alejaron lo suficiente (sur de Madrid) no empezaron a asentarse.

Maybe this can help you :


both for admixture time estimation (the deeper event recorded of all scenarios tested) and for geographic distribution, with the historical connection between SW and NW Iberia by means of “via de la Plata” Roman road. Our genomic data reflect that this road, that enabled military and commercial activities, could have acted as a vehicle for the spread of (African) genes, and that have significantly defined the contemporary internal structure within the Iberian Peninsula (see Fortes-Lima et al. 2014; Hernández et al. 2014).

https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/37/4/1041/5670533