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Tomenable
02-13-2019, 09:35 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HocOlUNsyv8

02-13-2019, 09:43 PM
Is Polish closer to Slovak or Czech?

lgmayka
02-14-2019, 12:34 AM
One time in a grocery store, an announcement came over the loudspeaker asking whether anyone in the store could speak Hungarian. My father--who speaks only English, Polish, Spanish, and Ukrainian fluently--nevertheless went to the customer service desk in the hope that he might help. Sure enough, the foreign-speaking customer was actually Czech. According to his own account, my father--merely by speaking Polish with a Czech accent--was able to act as interpreter.

Volat
02-14-2019, 07:54 AM
Two most influential Slavic languages are Russian and Polish. I won't go into details why this is so. Historically these two Slavic languages. I can say with certainty about phonetics of Polish. Polish is not as any other Slavic languages.
Is Polish more similar to Czech or Slovak, or Sorbian in Lusatia? Impossible to say. Polish is the only remaining Leichitic, western Slavic language.

lgmayka
02-14-2019, 11:45 AM
Polish is not as any other Slavic languages.
Polish is the only major modern Slavic language that retains the Common Slavic nasal vowels ę and ą (Old Church Slavonic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Church_Slavonic) ѧ and ѫ).

Volat
02-14-2019, 04:02 PM
Polish is the only major modern Slavic language that retains the Common Slavic nasal vowels ę and ą (Old Church Slavonic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Church_Slavonic) ѧ and ѫ).

My wife is Polish from Belarus (Grodno oblast, Shchuchinsk region to be precise). My daughter is half Pole. My wife teaches our daugter Polish. Polish nasal sounds are beyond me.

Volat
02-14-2019, 04:26 PM
Novgorodian dialect is different from Russian, Ukrainian, Belarusian, all other Slavic languages. Some respectful linguists decided to name it as 4th separate Slavic language.
I can understand Polish, Bulgarian, 'old Russian' written in manuscripts in Kiev. But I can _not_ understand_ the language Novgorodians used on birch-barks. It's definitely Slavic. But without help of a professional linguist one won't understand their language.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Novgorod_dialect

Coldmountains
02-14-2019, 09:53 PM
Novgorodian dialect is different from Russian, Ukrainian, Belarusian, all other Slavic languages. Some respectful linguists decided to name it as 4th separate Slavic language.
I can understand Polish, Bulgarian, 'old Russian' written in manuscripts in Kiev. But I can _not_ understand_ the language Novgorodians used on birch-barks. It's definitely Slavic. But without help of a professional linguist one won't understand their language.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Novgorod_dialect
Do Northwest Russians have R1a clades closer to Poles or other West Slavs than to other East Slavs?. I read somewhere that Novgorodian had some similarities with old Polish. But i don't remember the exact source anymore. Or were Novgorodian/Northwest Russian dialects so distinct because of Baltic influences?

lgmayka
02-14-2019, 11:35 PM
One survey found that out of 114 men in "Arkhangelsk region (upper Pinega river, Karpogory district)", 31.6% tested positive for M458 (and 14% belonged to R1b-M269).

Out of 121 men in the "Vologda region", 24.0% tested M458+.

See Table K in S1 File in this published paper (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4558026/).

Michał
02-15-2019, 02:56 AM
One survey found that out of 114 men in "Arkhangelsk region (upper Pinega river, Karpogory district)", 31.6% tested positive for M458 (and 14% belonged to R1b-M269).[/URL].
There is a lot of variability between particular locations in Northern Russia. For example, it should be noted that this paper includes three different "East Slavic" samples from the Arkhangelsk region, an only one ("upper Pinega river") shows such an elevated level of M458 and M269. The two remaining samples, from Mezen River(n=54) and Krasnoborsk & Lensk districts (n=91), show only 3.7% and 7.7% for M458, plus 0% and 6,7% for R1b-M269, respectively, while showing higher frequencies of the remaining branches of R1a (40.7% and 12.1% vs 7.9% at the upper Pinega). All this suggests that what we see in a population at the upper Pinega river is not characteristic for all Northern Russians of Slavic origin and thus seems to be a result of a local founder effect.

George
02-15-2019, 02:36 PM
Novgorodian dialect is different from Russian, Ukrainian, Belarusian, all other Slavic languages. Some respectful linguists decided to name it as 4th separate Slavic language.
I can understand Polish, Bulgarian, 'old Russian' written in manuscripts in Kiev. But I can _not_ understand_ the language Novgorodians used on birch-barks. It's definitely Slavic. But without help of a professional linguist one won't understand their language.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Novgorod_dialect

I certainly agree that "Old Novgorodian" was a distinct Slavic language. I don't know to what extent it survives (or until recently survived) in the speech of rural communities in the area. But although not a linguist I had no difficulty in understanding the document provided in the link (birch bark 109). I find it practically as clear as the text of Kyivan chronicles

Volat
02-15-2019, 02:44 PM
Do Northwest Russians have R1a clades closer to Poles or other West Slavs than to other East Slavs?. I read somewhere that Novgorodian had some similarities with old Polish. But i don't remember the exact source anymore. Or were Novgorodian/Northwest Russian dialects so distinct because of Baltic influences?
Russians consider Novgorodians as their own. Novgorodians were definitely eastern Slavs. We should not consider them otherwise. Slavs would understand the term 'Novgorod'.

martinmkp
03-21-2019, 03:11 AM
From my - Slovak - very subjective and non-scientific :) point of view on similarity or differences of some Slavic languages:
A/ Czech is the most understandable for me, almost with no difficulties to read, express myself or speak - more than dialects of the same language really (alhough I still do not remember Czech names of months "March/Marec" is "Brezen" or January/Januar is "Leden" etc), or I never remember Czech names for many animals and plants - but Czech jokes are the same as Slovak ones:)
B/ Polish - many Slovaks consider this language as a close - to be frank it is difficult for me to understand this language if spoken but I can read context of an articles, newspapers, books
C/ Russian - very difficult and different... although basic words sounds so same/similar, in context this language is a killer for me (I have learned it for more than a decade in the past so I can use it)
D/ generally, Russian and Polish sounds quite strange for me (very neat as if a woman talks) and both sounds similar to each other to my ears (Polish to Russian - although I fully understand both do belong to very different language subgroups and are different) - but east Slovak dialects sound similar as Polish or Russian (womanish :))
E/ Surprisingly, Croatian is a very understandable language for me (I can read, understand, make small talk...) - but Bulgarian or North-macedonian it is a "no go" area, same difficulties as Russian for example.
F/ Slovenian - very nice feeling to me, but less understandable... as if my forefather came from his/her grave and spoke in my ancestors language.

To conclude: Very subjectively, Czech is almost the same, Croatian understandable, then Polish with a bigger distance, and the rest Slavic languages I have difficulties to understand spoken word but can guess the meaning of written articles.

My children, unfortunately do speak Slovak not perfectly (it is not their native language) - but they have a big problem to understand Czech (and they do not understand other Slavic languages at all)

I have to add to be objective that when young, I partially spoke with my closest family in German, so take my feelings about those languages with a caution :)

Michał
03-21-2019, 03:33 PM
@martinmkp

What is your perception of Ukrainian (when compared to Polish and Russian)?

It seems to me that in the case of relatively young Poles who have never learned any other Slavic language and have never been strongly exposed to any specific non-Polish Slavic culture/language, both Slovak and Czech sound most similar to Polish (and thus are the easiest to understand). However, I was initially very surprised to notice that the young generation is not only unable to differentiate between Russian and Ukrainian (which is very easy for myself), but they are also unable (in most cases) to distinguish between spoken East Slavic (like Russian, Ukrainian or Belarusian) and non-Polish West Slavic (like Czech or Slovak) or South Slavic languages. For an older population that was much more strongly exposed to Russian language (mostly at school but also through old Soviet movies), they are much more likely to understand Russian, and many can even communicate in Russian. In Poland, most foreign films are not dubbed, so this is why Poles are generally familiar with some basic expressions in many foreign languages. Before 1989, there were many Soviet (mostly Russian) and Czechoslovak (mostly Czech) movies shown in Polish TV, so this has certainly influenced the perception of both Russian and Czech languages by the generation born let's say before 1975-80. By contrast, many younger Poles are more likely to have some contacts with Croatian than with Russian, Ukrainian or Czech (and this is because Croatia has become one of the favorite destinations for summer vacations).

Czech language sounds extremely funny for a Polish ear, and we used to have a lot of jokes about it, though many of those jokes were based on some myths, as explained here (in Polish): http://lapolaquita.blox.pl/2007/03/Legendy-o-czeskim-jezyku.html. Personally, I love listening to Czech language, mostly because I am a big fan of Karel Kryl and Czech cinema.

I can communicate in Russian and, as mentioned above, I am also able to easily recognize (and at least partially understand) spoken Ukrainian or Czech, although distinguishing between Czech and Slovak or between Belarusian and some neighboring Ukrainian and Russian dialects would certainly pose some problems. Also, I would probably be unable to distinguish between particular South Slavic languages, though I believe I can hear the difference between the South Eastern (Bulgarian and Macedonian) and the remaining South Slavic languages. In general, I recognize South Slavic languages based on the fact that they are neither Russian/Ukrainian/Belarusian nor Czech/Slovak, yet they show some common Slavic features that are easy to notice for an average Pole (or for an average Slav). To some extent, this resembles my perception of different Germanic languages, more specifically my ability to recognize German, Dutch/Flemish and English, and inability to distinguish between particular Scandinavian languages (like Danish, Norwegian and Swedish).

martinmkp
03-22-2019, 09:16 AM
@Michał

Thank you very much for a very interesting observation from your point of view.
On Ukrainian - in general, it seems to be very close to Russian language to me, obviously. I see in Ukrainian vocabulary some (actually many) specific words, which are same or very similar to Slovak or Polish and are not a part of Russian (maybe of some deeper roots or medieval Polish influence in the past). But again, in general, Ukrainian seems to me very Eastern-Slavic language too close to Russian.

There is another specific language, as you are very well aware of - Ruthenian. This is more philosophical question- is Ruthenian a dialect of Ukrainian or is it fully fledged language? Taken it politically or linguistically, I do not know (of course it is an independent language oficially). But Ruthenian should be some bridge between Ukrainian and/or Slovak/Polish, but again, I believe it is not.

Maybe there is a big difference in for example Lwow/Lemberg/Lviv Ukrainian dialect and and codified Ukrainian, this I do no know (I visited Lwow only once in 1988).

And I forgot to mention Lusatia / Lausitz. I do nt remember of lower or upper Lusatian (Sorbian) language - but when I read it it was very close to Czech and thus very understandable to me as well. It is a pity this language is disappearing very quitely from our maps and minds.

Michał
03-22-2019, 06:41 PM
There is another specific language, as you are very well aware of - Ruthenian. This is more philosophical question- is Ruthenian a dialect of Ukrainian or is it fully fledged language? Taken it politically or linguistically, I do not know (of course it is an independent language oficially). But Ruthenian should be some bridge between Ukrainian and/or Slovak/Polish, but again, I believe it is not.

I know many Lemko folk songs, and although this language has many borrowings from Polish, I have no doubts that it is more closely related to Ukrainian than to Polish or Slovak. For me, it just sounds like an Ukrainian dialect, although I am fully aware that many Lemkos (especially those from Slovakia) consider themselves a separate nation speaking their own language.

michal3141
10-24-2020, 10:21 PM
For me spoken Czech is quite hard to understand because of the accent but written Czech seems to be much easier to understand.
I am actually surprised how similar are Czech and Polish.
You could compare original lyrics of the song below and translation. To me this is really amazing:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWJ0obk23SI&ab_channel=TyTan