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View Full Version : Is this line a contender of Indo-European, Paleo Balkan? R1a > CTS1211 > Y35 > YP4278



trdbr1234
02-23-2019, 04:16 AM
What's the story behind this line?

Apparently its greatest frequency is in Herzegovina at 4-5%, and around the Balkan countries at about 1% of all R1a? With a seeming diminishing distribution elsewhere.

Did it arrive with the Slavs in the 6th century to the Balkans? Or was it present in the Balkans and spread with them?


formed 4200 ybp, TMRCA 1850 ybp


https://i.imgur.com/qlKqJq9.jpg

trdbr1234
02-23-2019, 04:05 PM
Does anyone have more information?

lgmayka
02-24-2019, 12:02 AM
Here is YFull's R-YP4278 haplotree (https://yfull.com/tree/R-YP4278/). It includes a Czech, a Finn, and a Hungarian.

FTDNA's block tree for R-YP4278 has:

YP4278* : 1 Serbia, 1 Czech Rep., 1 Finland
YP4441 : 3 Russia, 1 Unknown
YP4706 : 1 Hungary, 1 Ukraine
BY30743 : 2 Serbia, 1 Bosnia-Herzegovina, 1 Unknown

IMHO, it is not native to the Balkans but rather traveled south to there (e.g., from the Carpathians). The question is whether this migration occurred before or during the Slavic expansion.

Ownstyler
02-24-2019, 04:26 PM
Looking at it's age and modern distribution, it probably expanded out of Eastern Europe around Late Antiquity or the Early Middle Ages.

trdbr1234
02-28-2019, 08:25 PM
Looking at it's age and modern distribution, it probably expanded out of Eastern Europe around Late Antiquity or the Early Middle Ages.

I would think the opposite.

Its distribution supports a native origin because its greatest frequency is in western Balkans, followed by eastern Balkans, and then followed by Eastern Europe. Its TMRCA however supports a non-native origin which coincides with late antiquity/early middle ages migrations.

However, most lineages suffered bottlenecks during the migration period and I do not think a TMRCA around that period is definitive of non-Balkan origins. It does in my opinion support a movement with the migrations.

trdbr1234
02-28-2019, 08:26 PM
Here is YFull's R-YP4278 haplotree (https://yfull.com/tree/R-YP4278/). It includes a Czech, a Finn, and a Hungarian.

FTDNA's block tree for R-YP4278 has:

YP4278* : 1 Serbia, 1 Czech Rep., 1 Finland
YP4441 : 3 Russia, 1 Unknown
YP4706 : 1 Hungary, 1 Ukraine
BY30743 : 2 Serbia, 1 Bosnia-Herzegovina, 1 Unknown

IMHO, it is not native to the Balkans but rather traveled south to there (e.g., from the Carpathians). The question is whether this migration occurred before or during the Slavic expansion.

Any guess to what brought it?

Ownstyler
03-03-2019, 03:26 AM
I would think the opposite.

Its distribution supports a native origin because its greatest frequency is in western Balkans, followed by eastern Balkans, and then followed by Eastern Europe. Its TMRCA however supports a non-native origin which coincides with late antiquity/early middle ages migrations.

However, most lineages suffered bottlenecks during the migration period and I do not think a TMRCA around that period is definitive of non-Balkan origins. It does in my opinion support a movement with the migrations.

By distribution I meant where there are more branches, or where there is more diversity. Frequency is not that relevant. As lgmayka explained, out of the 4 parallel lines currently on YFull, only one is from the Balkans, while the three others are from Eastern Europe.

trdbr1234
03-30-2019, 01:22 AM
BUMP...........

Tomenable
07-14-2019, 12:48 AM
Well, maybe it came to the Balkans with the Turkic Bulgars?

In another thread you mentioned ancestry from Bulgaria IIRC.

trdbr1234
07-14-2019, 02:00 AM
Well, maybe it came to the Balkans with the Turkic Bulgars?

In another thread you mentioned ancestry from Bulgaria IIRC.

That would be interesting. Is there anything that supports that theory?

No, I don't have any ancestry from Bulgaria. I come from a region of Albania that is bilingual in Bulgarian(North Macedonian to be exact) and Albanian.