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BackToTheForests
03-25-2019, 01:51 PM
So, I've seen posters mentioning that they've received the updates but have yet to see a side by side of old and new results. Well, I've received an update (I sent an email when I saw it was getting results, my will is not very strong) and would like to provide a small analysis.

I loved my first set of results, already knowing the issues with LivingDNA before testing I thought my first set of results were quite good, even got a healthy (by LDNA standards) 26% Ireland. I knew that my German ancestry was likely being obfuscated by South England/East Anglia, they gave me an exciting and exotic 2% France to go with it. My Eastern European score was good, I generally score higher than a single great grandparent but I'm not sure if it is a problem with the testing companies to give out too much Eastern Euro or it is just the way of DNA inheritance, maybe even part of my German ancestry is in there. Who knows?
My English ancestry is a bit more messy, scoring in many categories that I felt were misattributed (probably should have rolled into Irish category, some into German, others match nothing that resembles my documented English ancestry). Like many others, I feel this can be a crutch of testing companies, I have brick walls in my English ancestry beginning in the late 1700's/early 1800's and cannot confidently say that the family was native to the area, had moved around, or whatever. For what it's worth, my English ancestry is centralized to Burton/Kings Bromley/Derbyshire and I certainly don't see that reflected in this part of my results, although it makes for some fun speculation.

Now to the update. Good news is the Irish update seems to do the trick well, bringing me from 26.9% to 48.8%. Still a little bit low, it's been a bit difficult to accurately assess my Irish ancestry as I found my mother to have a single great grandfather that was of Colonial American stock and I've modeled him as 25% Dutch, 18.75% English, 12.5% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% Welsh, and 6.25% French (until I've broken through a serious brick wall I'll be missing approximately 18.75% of her great grandfathers ancestry). This would make my mother, in total, a little over 90% Irish. My father also has Irish, 25%, so in a perfect world I would be approximately 57.5% Irish. The update has done much better in capturing that and considering admixture that I may never find out about it seems solid.

English ancestry is still an absolute mess, I have no need for a headache so I'll have a pass at making an analysis.

Eastern Europe...31.3%...I don't even know how that happened. While it would be very cool it just makes me feel like a "plastic Paweł". It also misses the other Eastern Euro regions of my first test, leaving out Finland and Western Russia as well as Northeast Europe.

Here is a comparison of my first test and the update, perhaps it's better for less mixed individuals but I would caution that while this update certainly helps with Irish it does also seem to muck other things in a way. And the English subregional breakdown is not very good on either test, imo.

First test:
29521

Update:
29522

Thanks for reading!

firemonkey
03-25-2019, 02:27 PM
When was this update? My original paid results give 1.2% Ireland and hasn't changed. Two results from uploading raw data give over 20% Ireland.

BackToTheForests
03-25-2019, 02:36 PM
When was this update? My original paid results give 1.2% Ireland and hasn't changed. Two results from uploading raw data give over 20% Ireland.

According to the email I received from LivingDNA:
"We are currently running any updates on an individual basis however are aiming to do a more wider update in the near future."

The update is with the "improved Irish panel", I'm assuming maybe the same used for the upload results (the test in my OP is a bought test). I just found it odd the way that implementing that panel completely skewed the rest of my results.

Edit: to their credit, they were prompt with a response.

Yorkie
03-28-2019, 05:58 PM
In my case [I posted the info on other LivingDna threads], I went from 6% Irish to a fairly accurate 49% Irish when my results were very recently updated to include the 'new Irish data'.

Nqp15hhu
03-28-2019, 06:30 PM
Still waiting!

BackToTheForests
03-28-2019, 07:59 PM
In my case [I posted the info on other LivingDna threads], I went from 6% Irish to a fairly accurate 49% Irish when my results were very recently updated to include the 'new Irish data'.

I did see your post, it prompted me to email LDNA so thank you (I wouldn't have otherwise). If you don't mind my asking, how did the Irish update effect the rest of your estimate? Did it bring the rest together for you or did only the Irish estimate improve?


Still waiting!

You should send them an email if you haven't already. All I did was politely express my frustration in seeing people being randomly updated and told them that their estimate falls very short of my documented genealogy, I had a response plus update in only three days time. I emailed [email protected]

shazou
03-29-2019, 08:53 PM
I uploaded thru FindMyPast, but will those of us who are mostly of Asian descend with residual(4-5%ish) Euro only also receive the update?

Kathlingram
03-30-2019, 06:00 PM
[QUOTE=BackToTheForests;556727]According to the email I received from LivingDNA:
"We are currently running any updates on an individual basis however are aiming to do a more wider update in the near future."
The update is with the "improved Irish panel"

Thanks everyone I requested mine also. My results came back 2 years ago and when I immediately complained at my low Irish they had told me that the Irish samples were fairly imminent. ha!
And since they blew their Beta..Hopefully

Robert1
03-30-2019, 07:03 PM
I tested in 2017 and got a beta upgrade on those Orion chip results 2/13/2019. Also I tested on the new Sirius chip and got results 12/12/2018. I'm looking forward for the update to roll out for everyone to see how updated Orion and updated Sirius compare using the same reference panel. Unfortunately different reference panels were used for each test below which makes it difficult to interpret the results.

There was no change in my MT and Y Haplogroup/subclades. Each chip reports K1a4a1f and R-L21>DF13

Living DNA - Complete Mode with Sub-Regions
Robert ---------------- Orion 2017 - Sirius 12/12/18 - Orion 2/13/19
Great Britain and Ireland -- 98.7% ---100.0% -------100.0%
Northwest Scotland -------- 20.8% ---- 23.0% ------- 12.5%
Aberdeenshire --------------- 6.9% ---- 14.6% --------- 3.7%
SW Scotland & N. Ireland --- 1.3% ----- 2.5% ----------------
Ireland ------------------------ 6.1% --- 37.6% -------- 31.1%
Northumbria ------------------ 3.9% ----------------------------

Northwest England ---------- 10.0% ---- 3.5% ----------------
Cumbria ---------------------------------------------------- 3.8%
North Yorkshire --------------- 5.5% ---- 2.8% -----------------
South Yorkshire --------------- 4.7% ---- 6.4% ---------- 6.9%
North Wales ------------------- 2.9% ---------------------- 1.9%
South Wales ------------------- 9.0% ---- 5.8% ---------- 4.8%
South Wales Border ---------------------- 1.9% -----------------
South Central England -------- 1.7% --------------------- 23.9%
Devon -------------------------- 1.3% ----------------------------
Cornwall ------------------------ 2.7% --------------------- 3.8%
Southeast England ------------ 21.8% --- 1.9% ---------- 7.4%
Scandinavia --------------------- 1.3% ----------------------------
Europe West -------------------- 0.0% --- 0.0% ----------- 0.0%

known family history:
English 32%, Scottish 28%, Welsh 20%, Irish 15%, German/Netherlands 5%

Kathlingram
03-31-2019, 04:31 PM
WOW! Got this:"Hi Kathleen,
Thanks for getting in touch with Living DNA.
Please log into your portal to view your new updated results. If you have any other questions please get back in touch and we will do our best to answer them."

Kathlingram
03-31-2019, 04:52 PM
WOW! Got this:"Hi Kathleen,
Thanks for getting in touch with Living DNA.
Please log into your portal to view your new updated results. If you have any other questions please get back in touch and we will do our best to answer them."

29584 YES This is much more realistic.. Someone was listening to me..:cheer2:

BackToTheForests
04-01-2019, 02:01 PM
I tested in 2017 and got a beta upgrade on those Orion chip results 2/13/2019. Also I tested on the new Sirius chip and got results 12/12/2018. I'm looking forward for the update to roll out for everyone to see how updated Orion and updated Sirius compare using the same reference panel. Unfortunately different reference panels were used for each test below which makes it difficult to interpret the results.

There was no change in my MT and Y Haplogroup/subclades. Each chip reports K1a4a1f and R-L21>DF13

Living DNA - Complete Mode with Sub-Regions
Robert ---------------- Orion 2017 - Sirius 12/12/18 - Orion 2/13/19
Great Britain and Ireland -- 98.7% ---100.0% -------100.0%
Northwest Scotland -------- 20.8% ---- 23.0% ------- 12.5%
Aberdeenshire --------------- 6.9% ---- 14.6% --------- 3.7%
SW Scotland & N. Ireland --- 1.3% ----- 2.5% ----------------
Ireland ------------------------ 6.1% --- 37.6% -------- 31.1%
Northumbria ------------------ 3.9% ----------------------------

Northwest England ---------- 10.0% ---- 3.5% ----------------
Cumbria ---------------------------------------------------- 3.8%
North Yorkshire --------------- 5.5% ---- 2.8% -----------------
South Yorkshire --------------- 4.7% ---- 6.4% ---------- 6.9%
North Wales ------------------- 2.9% ---------------------- 1.9%
South Wales ------------------- 9.0% ---- 5.8% ---------- 4.8%
South Wales Border ---------------------- 1.9% -----------------
South Central England -------- 1.7% --------------------- 23.9%
Devon -------------------------- 1.3% ----------------------------
Cornwall ------------------------ 2.7% --------------------- 3.8%
Southeast England ------------ 21.8% --- 1.9% ---------- 7.4%
Scandinavia --------------------- 1.3% ----------------------------
Europe West -------------------- 0.0% --- 0.0% ----------- 0.0%

known family history:
English 32%, Scottish 28%, Welsh 20%, Irish 15%, German/Netherlands 5%

Thank you for posting your comparison, Robert1! The Irish estimate is super high on the Orion upgrade and the Sirius chip but, to be fair, across the board people seem pretty pleased with their new Irish estimates (mine is solid and my fathers is 99% right on the money at a little over 26%) so it could be accurate or just super difficult to distinguish Scottish and Irish in your case. LivingDNA did get my broad ethnic ratio really well, at 68.6% total British and Irish and 31.3% Baltic/German (in LDNA's case simply Baltic), I'm happy with that. Did you find your English regional estimates to be okay on the upgrade and new chip? Some people are quite happy with theirs but I still think it isn't very good, not accurate at all in my own case. They did okay with my father since his largest English percentage is Central England but the rest seem pretty random.

BackToTheForests
04-01-2019, 02:02 PM
29584 YES This is much more realistic.. Someone was listening to me..:cheer2:

I'm happy that you're pleased with your results! How was your regional breakdown compared to your paper trail?

Kathlingram
04-01-2019, 02:26 PM
I'm happy that you're pleased with your results! How was your regional breakdown compared to your paper trail?

Well the Irish is just about correct.. 45=-% and the Swedish is a little low.. should maybe be 6-7%
The Welsh I need to figure % as I know there is a lot as my father' side is doubled up there.. I am going to use AncestryDNA tags to try to determine that

Yorkie
04-01-2019, 02:45 PM
I did see your post, it prompted me to email LDNA so thank you (I wouldn't have otherwise). If you don't mind my asking, how did the Irish update effect the rest of your estimate? Did it bring the rest together for you or did only the Irish estimate improve?



You should send them an email if you haven't already. All I did was politely express my frustration in seeing people being randomly updated and told them that their estimate falls very short of my documented genealogy, I had a response plus update in only three days time. I emailed [email protected]

Hi, my new Irish update seems to have improved the accuracy of my full ethnicity picture overall, with more realistic estimates of my East Anglian, Central England and South-East England scores. I was getting small percentages previously of areas such as Cornwall where I'm pretty sure I have no ancestry from.

Robert1
04-01-2019, 03:54 PM
Thank you for posting your comparison, Robert1! The Irish estimate is super high on the Orion upgrade and the Sirius chip but, to be fair, across the board people seem pretty pleased with their new Irish estimates (mine is solid and my fathers is 99% right on the money at a little over 26%) so it could be accurate or just super difficult to distinguish Scottish and Irish in your case. LivingDNA did get my broad ethnic ratio really well, at 68.6% total British and Irish and 31.3% Baltic/German (in LDNA's case simply Baltic), I'm happy with that. Did you find your English regional estimates to be okay on the upgrade and new chip? Some people are quite happy with theirs but I still think it isn't very good, not accurate at all in my own case. They did okay with my father since his largest English percentage is Central England but the rest seem pretty random.

BackToTheForests, my updated results on Orion (2/13/2019) are the most accurate of the three. For me Ireland results are too high as they have sucked away a good bit of Scotland and Wales. But that's forgivable as they are similar so are hard to distinguish. Adding Ireland, Scotland and Wales my Orion 2/13/2019 results total about 54% and should be a bit higher, maybe 63%. So I believe ~10% of my ~24% South Central England actually is Wales and Wales border. Otherwise as far as my regions in England they could use a bit of shifting toward the north and northwest but it's really not bad after moving ~10% to Wales.

What I'm looking forward to is seeing the latest reference panel applied to both my Orion and Sirius kits. Living DNA says ethnicity results between the chips are the same but we'll soon see!

One thing interesting on all three tests, my known ~5% Dutch/German ancestry doesn't show up. It is mid-18th century so that small amount of autosomal DNA actually could have washed out. Since Living DNA is better now at finding Germanic/continental, my expected 95% British&Irish may actually be 99-100% as Living DNA consistently reports. Anyway, I'm not terribly concerned about 5% now as it could be hidden in SE England or actually washed out.

Funny, we were told as kids we were about 3/4 "English" and 1/4 Dutch/German. Then as I began building my family tree it seemed more like 90% British&Irish to 10% Dutch/German then on to 95% to 5% which I'm quite sure of now. On the autosomal side though, the continent still keeps slipping away and it really could be ~100% British&Irish

msmarjoribanks
04-01-2019, 04:03 PM
I'm curious to see if my German or Irish/Scottish now show up. Just asked them to rerun it, so will have to see how they respond.

Kathlingram
04-01-2019, 05:23 PM
Well the Irish is just about correct.. 45=-% and the Swedish is a little low.. should maybe be 6-7%
The Welsh I need to figure % as I know there is a lot as my father' side is doubled up there.. I am going to use AncestryDNA tags to try to determine that

19% Welsh could be possible as my Tipperary/Limerick line were soldiers and mercenaries for centuries and ended up there sometimes. and if my father's line is doubled up..
Both 23andme and AncestryDNA show the North Wales/Manchester area as probable and both my Welsh Tract ancestors and some Irish ancestors ended up there c. 1700-1800

Kathlingram
04-01-2019, 11:31 PM
19% Welsh could be possible as my Tipperary/Limerick line were soldiers and mercenaries for centuries and ended up there sometimes. and if my father's line is doubled up..
Both 23andme and AncestryDNA show the North Wales/Manchester area as probable and both my Welsh Tract ancestors and some Irish ancestors ended up there c. 1700-1800

This is my 19% Welsh - More or less 43-45% UK Living DNA says 19.9 %
Important to me and would like feedback.. Is my North Wales in areas that look more like My 50+ % Irish would have impacted? Or does it seem purely Welsh.. I have a lot of Welsh Tract Delaware ancestors who married their cousins (Other Welsh) in Delaware in 1700-1750s and my unknown-but -probably- a young Uncle of my Grandmother who is my father's unknown bio father would increase that genetic share by about 25%
#1 is Living DNA #2 is AncestryDNA #3 is 23andme.. all seem about the same
Thoughts? Thanks!!
29601 29602 29603

BackToTheForests
04-02-2019, 01:27 PM
Well the Irish is just about correct.. 45=-% and the Swedish is a little low.. should maybe be 6-7%
The Welsh I need to figure % as I know there is a lot as my father' side is doubled up there.. I am going to use AncestryDNA tags to try to determine that

19% Welsh could be possible as my Tipperary/Limerick line were soldiers and mercenaries for centuries and ended up there sometimes. and if my father's line is doubled up..
Both 23andme and AncestryDNA show the North Wales/Manchester area as probable and both my Welsh Tract ancestors and some Irish ancestors ended up there c. 1700-1800

This is my 19% Welsh - More or less 43-45% UK Living DNA says 19.9 %
Important to me and would like feedback.. Is my North Wales in areas that look more like My 50+ % Irish would have impacted? Or does it seem purely Welsh.. I have a lot of Welsh Tract Delaware ancestors who married their cousins (Other Welsh) in Delaware in 1700-1750s and my unknown-but -probably- a young Uncle of my Grandmother who is my father's unknown bio father would increase that genetic share by about 25%
#1 is Living DNA #2 is AncestryDNA #3 is 23andme.. all seem about the same
Thoughts? Thanks!!
29601 29602 29603

I’m glad that your scores seemed reasonable, were your English regionals accurate? I wish that I could help you break down your results but I am absolutely terrible at it and will only embarrass myself when it comes to my own results ;) . Hopefully someone reading can help!


Hi, my new Irish update seems to have improved the accuracy of my full ethnicity picture overall, with more realistic estimates of my East Anglian, Central England and South-East England scores. I was getting small percentages previously of areas such as Cornwall where I'm pretty sure I have no ancestry from.

Very nice, good to hear that you're happy with your results. I'm having the same issue that you had with my own English regionals, large chunks of ancestry that don't match up at all to the genealogical record. I'm thinking, in my case, that a German panel update may help to ease the inconsistencies in my test.


BackToTheForests, my updated results on Orion (2/13/2019) are the most accurate of the three. For me Ireland results are too high as they have sucked away a good bit of Scotland and Wales. But that's forgivable as they are similar so are hard to distinguish. Adding Ireland, Scotland and Wales my Orion 2/13/2019 results total about 54% and should be a bit higher, maybe 63%. So I believe ~10% of my ~24% South Central England actually is Wales and Wales border. Otherwise as far as my regions in England they could use a bit of shifting toward the north and northwest but it's really not bad after moving ~10% to Wales.

What I'm looking forward to is seeing the latest reference panel applied to both my Orion and Sirius kits. Living DNA says ethnicity results between the chips are the same but we'll soon see!

One thing interesting on all three tests, my known ~5% Dutch/German ancestry doesn't show up. It is mid-18th century so that small amount of autosomal DNA actually could have washed out. Since Living DNA is better now at finding Germanic/continental, my expected 95% British&Irish may actually be 99-100% as Living DNA consistently reports. Anyway, I'm not terribly concerned about 5% now as it could be hidden in SE England or actually washed out.

Funny, we were told as kids we were about 3/4 "English" and 1/4 Dutch/German. Then as I began building my family tree it seemed more like 90% British&Irish to 10% Dutch/German then on to 95% to 5% which I'm quite sure of now. On the autosomal side though, the continent still keeps slipping away and it really could be ~100% British&Irish

Thanks, Robert1. I'll be interested to see the differences in the updated Sirius compared to the Orion!

I'm curious if some minor amount of continental would pop upon the application of the improved German data, I suppose only time will tell but I can't help to think that it would improve my own English regional results and probably yours as well (maybe you are actually 100% British/Irish, that would be really cool to find out too). I've been thinking about how DNA washes out and it can potentially happen very quickly, especially depending upon how much of the said DNA you actually inherit from your ancestor.

Hah, I love the evolution of measuring our own ethnic backgrounds as we gain access to more information, it seems the ratios are always changing a bit but also becoming more accurate.


I'm curious to see if my German or Irish/Scottish now show up. Just asked them to rerun it, so will have to see how they respond.

I was hoping that the Irish update would effect my continental percentages and it did. Unfortunately the change is not exactly accurtate and I've now had to ask for yet another update including the new German reference panel, a bit of a drag as I'm not sure if they will even grant me that. Hopefully it will work out well for you.

msmarjoribanks
04-02-2019, 03:16 PM
The only reason I think it might help with the German is that more recent testers seem to be having much more German show up. I am curious how the Irish panel will affect everything else.

For example, my Welsh looks about right (if anything, a bit low, as it's consistent with my more recent Welsh ancestry, including the specific locations, but I have other likely Welsh), but currently I get absolutely no Irish or Scottish. My Irish is all (so far as I can tell) probably Ulster, and some of the names seem more English, but I have enough (my mother is around 25%) that I find it odd that none shows up (I get around 25% on Ancestry, which is consistent with what I have on paper if you assume some of that is some of the Welsh).

My mother is also about 25% German (1700s immigrants to America) and my dad a little bit too, and I only get 1.4% at LDNA, which is clearly wrong and probably throwing off my English regional results. I get around 15% at 23andMe.

My Scandinavian shows up about right (12%, consistent with one great grandparent, which is correct), so will be curious if that stays as is once they have both the new panels working.

Phoebe Watts
04-02-2019, 03:46 PM
This is my 19% Welsh - More or less 43-45% UK Living DNA says 19.9 %
Important to me and would like feedback.. Is my North Wales in areas that look more like My 50+ % Irish would have impacted? Or does it seem purely Welsh.. I have a lot of Welsh Tract Delaware ancestors who married their cousins (Other Welsh) in Delaware in 1700-1750s and my unknown-but -probably- a young Uncle of my Grandmother who is my father's unknown bio father would increase that genetic share by about 25%
#1 is Living DNA #2 is AncestryDNA #3 is 23andme.. all seem about the same
Thoughts? Thanks!!
29601 29602 29603

Iím not sure if I understand the question.

But LDNA seems to be good at detecting Welsh ancestry and distinguishing between north and south. There are similarities to border regions which sometimes need to be added back, but other than that, the scale of Welsh ancestry seems ok in Standard mode.

Ancestry struggles with Welsh ancestry. A typical north-west Wales tester will be half Irish/Scottish and half Welsh etc. They will have the North wales region and probably a north-west England one (picking up migration of people from north Wales to Merseyside etc. in previous generations).

IIRC 23andme just has migrations not regions. Merseyside and Greater Manchester is an obvious one for north Wales. But Merseyside attracted Irish and Scots in great numbers too. So typically, but far from exclusively, Welsh.

I think the strongest evidence is LDNA ethnicity and also your matches. Ancestry has issues with Matches for parts of Wales and seems to discount the matches unneccesarily. MyHeritage doesnít discount to the same extent but has its own issues. I donít know about the other companies.

I hope that helps.

Kathlingram
04-02-2019, 05:34 PM
I’m not sure if I understand the question.

But LDNA seems to be good at detecting Welsh ancestry and distinguishing between north and south. There are similarities to border regions which sometimes need to be added back, but other than that, the scale of Welsh ancestry seems ok in Standard mode.

Ancestry struggles with Welsh ancestry. A typical north-west Wales tester will be half Irish/Scottish and half Welsh etc. They will have the North wales region and probably a north-west England one (picking up migration of people from north Wales to Merseyside etc. in previous generations).

IIRC 23andme just has migrations not regions. Merseyside and Greater Manchester is an obvious one for north Wales. But Merseyside attracted Irish and Scots in great numbers too. So typically, but far from exclusively, Welsh.

I think the strongest evidence is LDNA ethnicity and also your matches. Ancestry has issues with Matches for parts of Wales and seems to discount the matches unneccesarily. MyHeritage doesn’t discount to the same extent but has its own issues. I don’t know about the other companies.

I hope that helps.

Thanks for the reply.. AncestryDNA has not ignored my Welsh matches- I have 2 Geographic communities- Welsh Midlands and North Wales.. 23andme has a bit although they have refined things and also show Greater Manchester and Merseyside which I suspect can be my Tipperary/limerick Fant/Faunts who were military since they came as Norman mercenaries in the 1500s.. my immigrant 2nd Great William Faunt came to US in 1869 with a British Army pension..
I think, as you say it is both Welsh ancestors who intermarried both in Wales and in the Delaware/PA Welsh Tracts starting in 1690..

Kathlingram
04-02-2019, 05:39 PM
[QUOTE=BackToTheForests;558217]Iím glad that your scores seemed reasonable, were your English regionals accurate? I wish that I could help you break down your results but I am absolutely terrible at it and will only embarrass myself when it comes to my own results ;) . Hopefully someone reading can help!



Very nice, good to hear that you're happy with your results. I'm having the same issue that you had with my own English regionals, large chunks of ancestry that don't match up at all to the genealogical record. I'm thinking, in my case, that a German panel update may help to ease the inconsistencies in my test.



Thanks, Robert1. I'll be interested to see the differences in the updated Sirius compared to the Orion!

I'm curious if some minor amount of continental would pop upon the application of the improved German data, I suppose only time will tell but I can't help to think that it would improve my own English regional results and probably yours as well (maybe you are actually 100% British/Irish, that would be really cool to find out too). I've been thinking about how DNA washes out and it can potentially happen very quickly, especially depending upon how much of the said DNA you actually inherit from your ancestor.

Hah, I love the evolution of measuring our own ethnic backgrounds as we gain access to more information, it seems the ratios are always changing a bit but also becoming more accurate.



Iím glad that your scores seemed reasonable, were your English regionals accurate? I wish that I could help you break down your results but I am absolutely terrible at it and will only embarrass myself when it comes to my own results . Hopefully someone reading can help!
[QUOTE]
29607

I think this points to most if not all of my early US Ancestors coming from the South of England.. Jon Carrow in 1643 out of Bristol and others following the same path into Accomac VA.. so now that I DO See these regions I am exploring those I do not have origin places for..

Phoebe Watts
04-03-2019, 09:46 AM
2963629636
Thanks for the reply.. AncestryDNA has not ignored my Welsh matches- I have 2 Geographic communities- Welsh Midlands and North Wales.. 23andme has a bit although they have refined things and also show Greater Manchester and Merseyside which I suspect can be my...

Just to clarify then, the Welsh regions for Ancestry DNA are under Wales & the West Midlands. I get both North and South Wales, which is accurate for me. Do you get the West Midlands as well as North Wales?

Kathlingram
04-03-2019, 11:57 AM
2963629636

Just to clarify then, the Welsh regions for Ancestry DNA are under Wales & the West Midlands. I get both North and South Wales, which is accurate for me. Do you get the West Midlands as well as North Wales?

Phoebe,
Yes I get West Midlands ( 304 matches they say) and North Wales (209 matches) .. I can't tie them to my Welsh ancestors because of surname changes in US I think..Standardization of Surnames.. Some closer matches who have good trees point to 3 generations of ancestral couples that they think we share but I still cannot connect them.. there was much marriage within cousin groups in the Delaware Welsh "Tracts" which were areas of land grants initiated by William Penn.. so they got land.. and Delaware was not then a "Primogeniture" State for property division so males and females inherited in some fashion..
I can see my ancestors living on land owned by a cousin/sibling and getting moneys from that land..
Neither 23andme nor Living DNA is specifying exactly where my Welsh matches are from but Caernarvon comes up often.. and a place called Pwelli.. the trees do help.

Kathlingram
04-03-2019, 12:09 PM
Phoebe,
Yes I get West Midlands ( 304 matches they say) and North Wales (209 matches) .. I can't tie them to my Welsh ancestors because of surname changes in US I think..Standardization of Surnames.. Some closer matches who have good trees point to 3 generations of ancestral couples that they think we share but I still cannot connect them.. there was much marriage within cousin groups in the Delaware Welsh "Tracts" which were areas of land grants initiated by William Penn.. so they got land.. and Delaware was not then a "Primogeniture" State for property division so males and females inherited in some fashion..
I can see my ancestors living on land owned by a cousin/sibling and getting moneys from that land..
Neither 23andme nor Living DNA is specifying exactly where my Welsh matches are from but Caernarvon comes up often.. and a place called Pwelli.. the trees do help.

Here is my breakdown.. 29643
I see that you get 50-% and 50%.. a cousin match who lives in North Wales gets the same.. he is puzzled about that.. what do you think? He cannot Identify any Irish.. of course I can..my Irish are latecomers..after 1860 mostly and left siblings in the old country ..My grandfather born in US was 100% Irish and my father's grandmother was 100% Also.. It is my father's other 50% that I get most of my Wales from but SURELY a lot has to be my Irish who went into England with the Army and remained..

and then I see that you said this:"Ancestry struggles with Welsh ancestry. A typical north-west Wales tester will be half Irish/Scottish and half Welsh etc. They will have the North wales region and probably a north-west England one (picking up migration of people from north Wales to Merseyside etc. in previous generations)".

BackToTheForests
04-03-2019, 05:42 PM
The only reason I think it might help with the German is that more recent testers seem to be having much more German show up. I am curious how the Irish panel will affect everything else.

For example, my Welsh looks about right (if anything, a bit low, as it's consistent with my more recent Welsh ancestry, including the specific locations, but I have other likely Welsh), but currently I get absolutely no Irish or Scottish. My Irish is all (so far as I can tell) probably Ulster, and some of the names seem more English, but I have enough (my mother is around 25%) that I find it odd that none shows up (I get around 25% on Ancestry, which is consistent with what I have on paper if you assume some of that is some of the Welsh).

My mother is also about 25% German (1700s immigrants to America) and my dad a little bit too, and I only get 1.4% at LDNA, which is clearly wrong and probably throwing off my English regional results. I get around 15% at 23andMe.

My Scandinavian shows up about right (12%, consistent with one great grandparent, which is correct), so will be curious if that stays as is once they have both the new panels working.

You've got about the same amount of German as I do, my great grandmother on my fathers side was German and my mother has a bit of German/Dutch admixture from her Colonial line, yet I scored a whopping 0% on my bought test, they gave me about 2% French though but it disappeared after the application of the improved Irish panel. Sorry to be a bother but would you mind telling me where your German ancestors hail from? I have a consistent problem with very low German score across platforms, my father seems to fare a bit better but not by much. On his LDNA test he also gets 0% German, it's rolled into his Eastern Europe score (which is way too high at around 40%) and they give him about 10% Scandinavian (which is also way too high as I have zero Scandinavian ancestors in the past 200 years).

I'm very curious to see what happens with your results when they are finally updated and what you think about them. I'm starting to think that maybe I'm the problem :/

Dewsloth
04-03-2019, 06:51 PM
You've got about the same amount of German as I do, my great grandmother on my fathers side was German and my mother has a bit of German/Dutch admixture from her Colonial line, yet I scored a whopping 0% on my bought test, they gave me about 2% French though but it disappeared after the application of the improved Irish panel. Sorry to be a bother but would you mind telling me where your German ancestors hail from? I have a consistent problem with very low German score across platforms, my father seems to fare a bit better but not by much. On his LDNA test he also gets 0% German, it's rolled into his Eastern Europe score (which is way too high at around 40%) and they give him about 10% Scandinavian (which is also way too high as I have zero Scandinavian ancestors in the past 200 years).

I'm very curious to see what happens with your results when they are finally updated and what you think about them. I'm starting to think that maybe I'm the problem :/

It's not just you: Dad's results from LivingDNA. He also scored about 10% Scandinavian/Finnish despite no Scandinavian ancestors within the last 300 years.
29645

Dad's results from Ancestry (and ancestry ;) )

England, Wales & Northwestern Europe 51%
Germanic Europe 40%
European Jewish 5%
France 4%

Dad was born in Germany to a German/Belgian/Ashkenazi father and an American BritishColonial/PADutch/Swiss(b. Zurich 1732) mother.
Note LivingDNA's utter lack of any western/central euro...
We'll see what the LivingDNA update will bring. :pop2:


Edit: Also Dad has no known Italian in at least the last 300 years, despite the 11%+ award by LivingDNA :lol:

Robert1
04-03-2019, 07:56 PM
It's not just you: Dad's results from LivingDNA. He also has about 10% Scandinavian/Finnish despite no Scandinavian ancestors within the last 300 years.
29645

Dad's results from Ancestry (and ancestry ;) )

England, Wales & Northwestern Europe 51%
Germanic Europe 40%
European Jewish 5%
France 4%

Dad was born in Germany to a German/Belgian/Ashkenazi father and an American BritishColonial/PADutch/Swiss(b. Zurich 1732) mother.
Note LivingDNA's utter lack of any western/central euro...
We'll see what the LivingDNA update will bring. :pop2:

Well a beta update in February brought my 1.3% Scandinavian down to zero which agrees with with my known ancestry but yeah let's get out the popcorn and see what happens!

msmarjoribanks
04-03-2019, 08:10 PM
You've got about the same amount of German as I do, my great grandmother on my fathers side was German and my mother has a bit of German/Dutch admixture from her Colonial line, yet I scored a whopping 0% on my bought test, they gave me about 2% French though but it disappeared after the application of the improved Irish panel. Sorry to be a bother but would you mind telling me where your German ancestors hail from? I have a consistent problem with very low German score across platforms, my father seems to fare a bit better but not by much. On his LDNA test he also gets 0% German, it's rolled into his Eastern Europe score (which is way too high at around 40%) and they give him about 10% Scandinavian (which is also way too high as I have zero Scandinavian ancestors in the past 200 years).

I'm very curious to see what happens with your results when they are finally updated and what you think about them. I'm starting to think that maybe I'm the problem :/

My German ancestors that I've managed to trace back to Germany are from the Rhineland-Palatinate. I also have a few I've grouped in the same category (time period, German names) who were actually from Switzerland, though.

On an unrelated note, I have a known ggg grandmother whose parents were both from France. That long ago it could have disappeared (3% on paper), except that I have matches where the only link seems to be the French couple. I haven't gotten any French on LDNA (or on Ancestry, although my sister gets 3% France on Ancestry, could just be a coincidence).

I think most of the tests have an issue with separating out much of western Europe, but my suspicion here is that my German and Irish/Scottish that doesn't show up at all is throwing off the rest of the test.

BackToTheForests
04-04-2019, 12:21 AM
It's not just you: Dad's results from LivingDNA. He also scored about 10% Scandinavian/Finnish despite no Scandinavian ancestors within the last 300 years.
29645

Dad's results from Ancestry (and ancestry ;) )

England, Wales & Northwestern Europe 51%
Germanic Europe 40%
European Jewish 5%
France 4%

Dad was born in Germany to a German/Belgian/Ashkenazi father and an American BritishColonial/PADutch/Swiss(b. Zurich 1732) mother.
Note LivingDNA's utter lack of any western/central euro...
We'll see what the LivingDNA update will bring. :pop2:


Edit: Also Dad has no known Italian in at least the last 300 years, despite the 11%+ award by LivingDNA :lol:

Oh my :lol: Looks like it's time to buckle up, I mean the update can't make things any worse...r-right?


My German ancestors that I've managed to trace back to Germany are from the Rhineland-Palatinate. I also have a few I've grouped in the same category (time period, German names) who were actually from Switzerland, though.

On an unrelated note, I have a known ggg grandmother whose parents were both from France. That long ago it could have disappeared (3% on paper), except that I have matches where the only link seems to be the French couple. I haven't gotten any French on LDNA (or on Ancestry, although my sister gets 3% France on Ancestry, could just be a coincidence).

I think most of the tests have an issue with separating out much of western Europe, but my suspicion here is that my German and Irish/Scottish that doesn't show up at all is throwing off the rest of the test.

Ah, my great grandmother was half Hesse (fathers family from Ober-Erlenbach/Holzhausen/Friedberg) and half Hannover (mother). Hannover is where I lose the trail so I may be facing a similar situation as you and your Swiss ancestors. I also face a similar French situation with my mother, she has decent size (almost 30cm, single segment) matches with two French people on 23andMe. I've been fortunate enough to be able to have a look at their trees and they are French to the bone. I'm not sure I'll ever find the connection as the matches seem too high to be from her (one) French ancestor who died back in 1750.

Hopefully the full LDNA updates (not just the bits and pieces given out upon request) will be worth the wait, it's all up to time now.

Kathlingram
04-04-2019, 01:13 PM
Oh my :lol: Looks like it's time to buckle up, I mean the update can't make things any worse...r-right?



Ah, my great grandmother was half Hesse (fathers family from Ober-Erlenbach/Holzhausen/Friedberg) and half Hannover (mother). Hannover is where I lose the trail so I may be facing a similar situation as you and your Swiss ancestors. I also face a similar French situation with my mother, she has decent size (almost 30cm, single segment) matches with two French people on 23andMe. I've been fortunate enough to be able to have a look at their trees and they are French to the bone. I'm not sure I'll ever find the connection as the matches seem too high to be from her (one) French ancestor who died back in 1750.

Hopefully the full LDNA updates (not just the bits and pieces given out upon request) will be worth the wait, it's all up to time now.
So maybe I did not get the Full Update since I told them I wanted Irish German and Sweden..However since that is all I know that I am ( paper trail) it mostly worked well.. and it is in line with 23andme AncestryDNA and my uploads to MyHeritage and FTDNA..

Kathlingram
04-04-2019, 01:14 PM
Oh my :lol: Looks like it's time to buckle up, I mean the update can't make things any worse...r-right?



Ah, my great grandmother was half Hesse (fathers family from Ober-Erlenbach/Holzhausen/Friedberg) and half Hannover (mother). Hannover is where I lose the trail so I may be facing a similar situation as you and your Swiss ancestors. I also face a similar French situation with my mother, she has decent size (almost 30cm, single segment) matches with two French people on 23andMe. I've been fortunate enough to be able to have a look at their trees and they are French to the bone. I'm not sure I'll ever find the connection as the matches seem too high to be from her (one) French ancestor who died back in 1750.

Hopefully the full LDNA updates (not just the bits and pieces given out upon request) will be worth the wait, it's all up to time now.
So maybe I did not get the Full Update since I told them I wanted Irish German and Sweden..However since that is all I know that I am ( paper trail) it mostly worked well.. and it is in line with 23andme AncestryDNA and my uploads to MyHeritage and FTDNA..

BackToTheForests
04-04-2019, 06:08 PM
So maybe I did not get the Full Update since I told them I wanted Irish German and Sweden..However since that is all I know that I am ( paper trail) it mostly worked well.. and it is in line with 23andme AncestryDNA and my uploads to MyHeritage and FTDNA..

If you check the email they’ve sent you it might tell which panels were applied. FTDNA and MyHeritage are total wildcards for me resembling a different person entirely. LDNA, regionally, matches pretty well with 23andMe when it comes to British/Irish but my subregions are truly a mess. To not get Central England in my result after the update when my only English ancestors from the past 200 years are from the West Midlands is a bit absurd. I think it is just too ambitious.

Kathlingram
04-04-2019, 07:51 PM
If you check the email they’ve sent you it might tell which panels were applied. FTDNA and MyHeritage are total wildcards for me resembling a different person entirely. LDNA, regionally, matches pretty well with 23andMe when it comes to British/Irish but my subregions are truly a mess. To not get Central England in my result after the update when my only English ancestors from the past 200 years are from the West Midlands is a bit absurd. I think it is just too ambitious.

The email does not say what they upgraded but I requested Irish and said I was NOT 100% British Isles.. so since I got 3.4% Swedish and the Irish changed.. that surely.. and the Irish changing modified other things.. I did not save my other results but had them sort of committed to memory.. I did not have 19 % North Wales.. some but not 19%.. all of that seems close to everyone else..Yes MyHeritage is odd:
•North and West Europe 90.6%
Irish, Scottish, and Welsh 89.2%
North and West European 1.4%
•South Europe 6 .5%
Italian 6.5%
•East Europe 2.9%
Baltic 2.9%

The Italian is out of line but often Switzerland can mimic North Italy..
I think that FTDNA is off too..( Just looked hence edit) they say 67% British Isles but then have the map lap it over France and Baltic States and the have 8% Southern Europe 6% Scandinavian and 8% SouthEast Europe..

23andme and AncestryDNA are neck and neck with Living DNA

BackToTheForests
04-05-2019, 01:32 PM
The email does not say what they upgraded but I requested Irish and said I was NOT 100% British Isles.. so since I got 3.4% Swedish and the Irish changed.. that surely.. and the Irish changing modified other things.. I did not save my other results but had them sort of committed to memory.. I did not have 19 % North Wales.. some but not 19%.. all of that seems close to everyone else..Yes MyHeritage is odd:
•North and West Europe 90.6%
Irish, Scottish, and Welsh 89.2%
North and West European 1.4%
•South Europe 6 .5%
Italian 6.5%
•East Europe 2.9%
Baltic 2.9%

The Italian is out of line but often Switzerland can mimic North Italy..
I think that FTDNA is off too..( Just looked hence edit) they say 67% British Isles but then have the map lap it over France and Baltic States and the have 8% Southern Europe 6% Scandinavian and 8% SouthEast Europe..

23andme and AncestryDNA are neck and neck with Living DNA

To me, MyHeritage and FTDNA are like asking the town drunk "what am I?". I do love having access to all of those matches, though, so I am thankful for that.

My v4 23andMe, after the update, is solid. Really nice results there. The v5 was excellent before phasing but somehow became a bit messy afterwards :noidea: . I'm awaiting AncestryDNA results right now, I'm actually pretty excited to see how they turn out.

Kathlingram
04-05-2019, 05:05 PM
To me, MyHeritage and FTDNA are like asking the town drunk "what am I?". I do love having access to all of those matches, though, so I am thankful for that.

My v4 23andMe, after the update, is solid. Really nice results there. The v5 was excellent before phasing but somehow became a bit messy afterwards :noidea: . I'm awaiting AncestryDNA results right now, I'm actually pretty excited to see how they turn out.

23andme is the better test I still think ( Y and mito Also) BUT AncestryDNA is hugely fun!! Over 15 Million testers too.. Solves many questions and ThruLines point out some small matches whose trees are not visible or even public..How long that will last dunno.. And the Geographic is in line with 23andme.. Let me know what you think..

Jessie
04-18-2019, 03:47 PM
This is from an upload of 23andMe that I did a while ago. I've just checked and before it was 100% Irish but this is the new result.

http://i65.tinypic.com/104mb6s.jpg

This is my original test that hasn't been changed. This was from an actual spit test.

http://i63.tinypic.com/160edmr.jpg
http://i67.tinypic.com/29kyook.jpg

Amerijoe
04-18-2019, 04:19 PM
Jesse, I take it your Irish! In the era of fake news are you sure? All kidding aside that is a big change and are you satisfied it follows your known ancestry. I see your Asia is gone, same here. Here are my new results.

29874

Here are kit results.

2987629877

Transferred data from LDNA to MyHeritage.

29878

Next time I take a DNA test, Iíll make sure I spin the wheel harder.

Jessie
04-19-2019, 04:43 AM
Jesse, I take it your Irish! In the era of fake news are you sure? All kidding aside that is a big change and are you satisfied it follows your known ancestry. I see your Asia is gone, same here. Here are my new results.

29874

Here are kit results.

2987629877

Transferred data from LDNA to MyHeritage.

29878

Next time I take a DNA test, I’ll make sure I spin the wheel harder.

Yes just Irish. I'll be interested to see what the results are on my test that I took with them and other family members. My daughter got only 11% Irish with them so her update should be interesting. I'd also like to see how they go breaking down Irish regions.

sktibo
04-19-2019, 04:51 AM
This is from an upload of 23andMe that I did a while ago. I've just checked and before it was 100% Irish but this is the new result.

http://i65.tinypic.com/104mb6s.jpg

This is my original test that hasn't been changed. This was from an actual spit test.

http://i63.tinypic.com/160edmr.jpg
http://i67.tinypic.com/29kyook.jpg

Interesting... similarly to FS's (father?) we have trace Northumbrian after Irish. The Northumbrian Cautious category includes Ireland and NW Scotland and I think this is a very odd pairing but I do wonder why this region is selected by their calculator as one of the trace regions for Irish testers now... The only connection I can think of off the top of my head is the movement of Irish monks to monasteries such as Lindisfarne in the Northumbrian area, perhaps Gaelic settlement to some extent of the Scottish lowlands as well. But of course, trying to look at this through historical movements isn't always the best approach as our reference populations are modern people... Just throwing some thoughts out there I guess.

BackToTheForests
04-19-2019, 02:37 PM
This is from an upload of 23andMe that I did a while ago. I've just checked and before it was 100% Irish but this is the new result.

http://i65.tinypic.com/104mb6s.jpg

This is my original test that hasn't been changed. This was from an actual spit test.

http://i63.tinypic.com/160edmr.jpg
http://i67.tinypic.com/29kyook.jpg

It's strange that some sort of update was applied to your uploaded test but not your spit test. I was under the impression that the uploaded results already had the Irish panel updates applied but maybe (probably) I'm wrong, maybe this is why my mothers Irish result is so low. Anyway, I'm also curious to know what you think of your new subregions.

I'm probably beating a dead horse with this but at my 3x greats on her side we are at 93.75% Irish, at my 5x it's 29/32 Irish, so I just can't imagine how her score could be as low as LivingDNA says. The subregions just seem...random.
29903

On the contrary, my father had much better luck, he's at a very realistic 49.1% Great Britain and Ireland with a little over 26% being attributed to Ireland (one Irish grandparent for him). Unfortunately, like me, he's given way too much Eastern Europe. LivingDNA has him at 40.7% so I don't know what's going on there.

Edit: My data upload from last year has finally gone into "Quality Review", I'm excited to see how different it is to my original.

Dewsloth
04-25-2019, 12:07 AM
It's not just you: Dad's results from LivingDNA. He also scored about 10% Scandinavian/Finnish despite no Scandinavian ancestors within the last 300 years.
29645

Dad's results from Ancestry (and ancestry ;) )

England, Wales & Northwestern Europe 51%
Germanic Europe 40%
European Jewish 5%
France 4%

Dad was born in Germany to a German/Belgian/Ashkenazi father and an American BritishColonial/PADutch/Swiss(b. Zurich 1732) mother.
Note LivingDNA's utter lack of any western/central euro...
We'll see what the LivingDNA update will bring. :pop2:


Edit: Also Dad has no known Italian in at least the last 300 years, despite the 11%+ award by LivingDNA :lol:

Wow! Dad's results just changed a lot! Now is it because of their testing, or is it because of the responses to the survey questions, or both? In any event, I think it's more accurate than before, and quite similar to Ancestry.com.

New results:
Europe 98.9%
Great Britain and Ireland 55.6%
South Central England 21.3%
Southeast England 11.3%
East Anglia 8.3%
Ireland 3.3%
Southwest Scotland and Northern Ireland 3.1%
Lincolnshire 2.4%
Cornwall 1.9%
South Yorkshire 1.8%
Cumbria 1.1%
South Wales 1.1%

Europe (North and West) 40.7%
Germanic 40.7%

Europe (South) 2.6%
Aegean 2.6%
Near East 1.1%
Armenia and Cyprus 1.1%

30019

The old breakdown:
His 2017 results (he was born in Germany)
Europe 100%
Great Britain and Ireland 71.1%
Southeast England 20.6%
East Anglia 13.6%
Lincolnshire 12.2%
South Central England 9.5%
South Yorkshire 4.7%
Cumbria 2.4%
Northwest Scotland 2.4%
Devon 2.3%
Cornwall 2.2%
North Yorkshire 1.2%

Europe (South) 14.3%
North Italy 11.1%
Aegean 3.2%

Europe (North and West) 8.2%
Scandinavia 8.2%

Europe (East) 6.4%
West Balkans 2.6%
East Balkans 2%
Finland and Western Russia 1.8%

BackToTheForests
04-25-2019, 12:25 AM
Wow! Dad's results just changed a lot! Now is it because of their testing, or is it because of the responses to the survey questions, or both? In any event, I think it's more accurate than before, and quite similar to Ancestry.com.


Awesome! Thank you for posting, I've checked my own results and they have changed too, they are both more accurate and less so (no winning with me :lol:), they picked up my German but decided to throw in Tuscany, a region which I have no ancestry from (at least not within the past 200-250 years). I'll have to pick it apart tomorrow when I have some time, English sub regions still a hot mess, but it is cool that we are seeing updates. I hope members that haven't put in a survey will be updated soon too.

30020

Edit: They are also pretty well in line with AncestryDNA:

30021