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View Full Version : URLs to get $30 discount on Geno 2.0



lgmayka
08-21-2012, 07:05 PM
There seem to be two slightly different URLs to get the $30 discount on Geno 2.0:

http://shop.nationalgeographic.com/ngs/browse/productDetail.jsp?productId=2001246&gsk&code=EM080612G

http://shop.nationalgeographic.com/ngs/browse/productDetail.jsp?productId=2001246&gsk&code=EM082112G

Overseas customers can also get the discount by clicking on the "Buy the International Kit" hyperlink on either of those pages.

Scarlet Ibis
08-21-2012, 09:22 PM
I received an email for a $30 discount on it that expires in 2 days. I don't have the money for a new test at the moment, so my hands are tied anyway, but I think I'd like to see some results from others first before I start giving it some serious thought. I don't think a $30 discount would be enough to convince me to be a pioneer right now.

ilmari
08-21-2012, 09:28 PM
Would anyone care to direct me to the discussion of what the Geno 2.0 actually is?

zaender
08-21-2012, 10:26 PM
if I understand it correctly, it is a pimped up version of the first genographic project, so imagine a test similar to what 23andme does, but without the autosomals and health SNP's. You will have a better definition for male and female subclades, but nothing else!

lgmayka
08-22-2012, 12:56 AM
Would anyone care to direct me to the discussion of what the Geno 2.0 actually is?
Geno 2.0 includes:
- A new, updated Deep Clade of Y-DNA (but no "markers")
- A new, updated Deep Clade of mtDNA (but not full sequencing)
- Ancestry across all lines of descent, probably by percentages (but no matching of relatives)

Positive Y-SNP results, at least, can be transferred into an existing FTDNA account.

Many blogs have posted descriptions of Geno 2.0. Here are a few such posts:

http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/2012/07/25/the-genographic-project-announces-geno-2-0/
http://www.yourgeneticgenealogist.com/2012/07/more-information-from-spencer-wells-on.html
http://genealem-geneticgenealogy.blogspot.com/2012/07/geno-20-q-with-bennett-greenspan.html
http://dna-explained.com/2012/07/25/national-geographic-geno-2-0-announcement-the-human-story/
http://cruwys.blogspot.com/2012/08/geno-20-update.html

My own opinion is that Geno 2.0 has two primary uses:

- As an introduction to genetic ancestry, for those who have never tested before or who have tested only a little

- As a better Deep Clade test for those whose patrilineage happens to be included in the populations from which the new Y-SNPs are derived. Those populations are:
> The 1000 Genome Project (e.g., Utahans, Tuscans, Finns)
> East Asians
> Sardinians

thetick
08-22-2012, 01:53 AM
Geno 2.0 includes:
- A new, updated Deep Clade of Y-DNA (but no "markers")
- A new, updated Deep Clade of mtDNA (but not full sequencing)
- Ancestry across all lines of descent, probably by percentages (but no matching of relatives)

Positive Y-SNP results, at least, can be transferred into an existing FTDNA account.

A complete waste of money for me.
- I know I'm SRY2627 from 23andme and have 111 markers. I'm very distant from the known subclades.
- Already have full from FTDNA
- Already have FF and 23andme results with many third party results (Eurogenes, Dodecad, MDLP, Harappa, DNAT SNP)

GTC
08-22-2012, 09:23 AM
No urgency in my case either. I've tested every which way, too, and have run out of SNPs to test at FTDNA.

I'm waiting until I know what's on the new chip and to see if there's anything on it of interest to me.

Wing Genealogist
08-22-2012, 11:13 AM
No urgency in my case either. I've tested every which way, too, and have run out of SNPs to test at FTDNA.

I'm waiting until I know what's on the new chip and to see if there's anything on it of interest to me.

According to the work of Greg Magoon (and possibly others as well) there are other SNPs in the area of Z11 & Z12 which currently are not available for purchase at FT-DNA. He (they?) had found Z338--Z342 also in this area of the phylogenetic tree. These SNPs were apparently found ancestral in some Z5/Z8 individuals, but the 1000 Genome project did not have enough participants to further break down this group. (Later FT-DNA testing showed where Z12 was under Z11.) For all we know these SNPs may well be above, below, or among Z11 & Z12. Hopefully they will be part of the Geno 2.0 test (which has stated they are testing thousands of SNPs never previously available to test).

Mashallah
02-25-2016, 10:14 AM
He (they?) had found Z338--Z342 also in this area of the phylogenetic tree. These SNPs were apparently found ancestral in some Z5/Z8 individuals, but the 1000 Genome project did not have enough participants to further break down this group. (Later FT-DNA testing showed where Z12 was under Z11.????

Kurd
02-25-2016, 01:01 PM
From the limited results I have seen, it appears to be a much better test for detecting deep ancestry than 23andMe, which IMO is sort of useless for for detecting ancestry beyond 100 years, and for estimates of minor components.

From their website:
The Genographic Project is not a genealogical study, and your DNA trail may not lead to your present-day location. Rather, your results will reveal the anthropological story of your ancestors—where they lived and how they migrated around the world over tens of thousands of years

Their Y and mt tests also appear to be better:

Geno 2.0 Next Generation runs a comprehensive analysis to identify more than 3,500 genetic markers on your mitochondrial DNA, which is passed down each generation from mother to child, to reveal your direct maternal deep ancestry. In the case of males, we also examine more than 15,000 markers on the Y chromosome, which is passed down from father to son, to reveal your direct paternal deep ancestry. In addition, for all participants, we analyze a collection of more than 700,000 other markers from across your entire genome to reveal the regional affiliations of your ancestry, offering insights into your ancestors who are not on a direct maternal or paternal line for both males and females.

ancestryfan1994
02-25-2016, 06:44 PM
From the limited results I have seen, it appears to be a much better test for detecting deep ancestry than 23andMe, which IMO is sort of useless for for detecting ancestry beyond 100 years, and for estimates of minor components.

From their website:
The Genographic Project is not a genealogical study, and your DNA trail may not lead to your present-day location. Rather, your results will reveal the anthropological story of your ancestors—where they lived and how they migrated around the world over tens of thousands of years

Their Y and mt tests also appear to be better:

Geno 2.0 Next Generation runs a comprehensive analysis to identify more than 3,500 genetic markers on your mitochondrial DNA, which is passed down each generation from mother to child, to reveal your direct maternal deep ancestry. In the case of males, we also examine more than 15,000 markers on the Y chromosome, which is passed down from father to son, to reveal your direct paternal deep ancestry. In addition, for all participants, we analyze a collection of more than 700,000 other markers from across your entire genome to reveal the regional affiliations of your ancestry, offering insights into your ancestors who are not on a direct maternal or paternal line for both males and females.

23andme managed to detect our southeast asian ancestry, and though its recent, it probably isn't within the last 100 years just based on what limited information i have on my family. So I think it can be hit and miss, the algorithm will either capture those segments or it won't. I agree though, that their smoothing algorithm does mess around with smaller segments and eliminates valid information especially with the minor components you mentioned.

ancestryfan1994
02-25-2016, 06:46 PM
A complete waste of money for me.
- I know I'm SRY2627 from 23andme and have 111 markers. I'm very distant from the known subclades.
- Already have full from FTDNA
- Already have FF and 23andme results with many third party results (Eurogenes, Dodecad, MDLP, Harappa, DNAT SNP)


I was thinking of doing this a while back, but then i realized that it would be very useless, it doesn't seem to give you much beyond more in-depth subclades. Besides I have practically unearthed all there is no know about my ancestors apart from a few tiny details so theres not much more to learn.

Kurd
02-25-2016, 10:55 PM
23andme managed to detect our southeast asian ancestry, and though its recent, it probably isn't within the last 100 years just based on what limited information i have on my family

There is a big difference between simply detecting, and giving a reasonable estimate. Based on the results I have seen for NW Indians and Iranians, I a guessing you got 0-0.8% E Asian (NE E SE), which frankly is a joke. If you check the IBS runs I did comparing members with Han and Nganasan, you will see that most S Asians scored higher Siberian or E Asian than Turks, which indicates they have about 5 to 15% E Asian, but those same individuals likely received 0-0.5% with 23andMe.

Those same S Asians likely received >95% S Asian which is another joke, considering those same individuals derived >50% of their ancestry from the Caucuses, SW Asia, Europe via the Steppe, and E Asia.

To tell an Indian he is 98% S Asian, or an Iranian that he is 95% Middle Eastern is useless info IMO. You don't need an ancestry test to tell you that. I can tell you that by simply asking where your parents and grandparents are from!

smoothing is part of the problem. The other problem with their methodology is that they break up your genome inti 100 SNP segments, and compare each one of those segments with their references. So you can have a segment that is 40% chinese (40 SNPs), and it will be declared S Asian if the remaining 60 SNPs are S Asian. That is the reason people turn out 98% S Asian or ME with them. So yes, if you are only interested in your ancestry for a couple of generations then by all means 23andme is adequate, then again you don't really need a test to tell you that. In other words their accuracy drops off rapidly after about 100 years.

Gen 2.0 from the little I have seen seems to give you a decent picture of your ancestry back a few thousand years. Although allele frequency based ADMIXTURE calculators do much better than 23andMe going beyond 100 years and for minor comps, they also don't handle drift well. I don't believe the steppe ancestry percentages they give are accurate for this and other reasons.

I am not sure what methodology Geno 2.0 uses, because they told me it's proprietary

ancestryfan1994
02-26-2016, 12:26 AM
There is a big difference between simply detecting, and giving a reasonable estimate. Based on the results I have seen for NW Indians and Iranians, I a guessing you got 0-0.8% E Asian (NE E SE), which frankly is a joke. If you check the IBS runs I did comparing members with Han and Nganasan, you will see that most S Asians scored higher Siberian or E Asian than Turks, which indicates they have about 5 to 15% E Asian, but those same individuals likely received 0-0.5% with 23andMe.

Those same S Asians likely received >95% S Asian which is another joke, considering those same individuals derived >50% of their ancestry from the Caucuses, SW Asia, Europe via the Steppe, and E Asia.

To tell an Indian he is 98% S Asian, or an Iranian that he is 95% Middle Eastern is useless info IMO. You don't need an ancestry test to tell you that. I can tell you that by simply asking where your parents and grandparents are from!

smoothing is part of the problem. The other problem with their methodology is that they break up your genome inti 100 SNP segments, and compare each one of those segments with their references. So you can have a segment that is 40% chinese (40 SNPs), and it will be declared S Asian if the remaining 60 SNPs are S Asian. That is the reason people turn out 98% S Asian or ME with them. So yes, if you are only interested in your ancestry for a couple of generations then by all means 23andme is adequate, then again you don't really need a test to tell you that. In other words their accuracy drops off rapidly after about 100 years.

Gen 2.0 from the little I have seen seems to give you a decent picture of your ancestry back a few thousand years. Although allele frequency based ADMIXTURE calculators do much better than 23andMe going beyond 100 years and for minor comps, they also don't handle drift well. I don't believe the steppe ancestry percentages they give are accurate for this and other reasons.

I am not sure what methodology Geno 2.0 uses, because they told me it's proprietary


I agree with your statements, your points are basically why I decided to venture out of the commercial tests and try other more advanced methods, the commercial tests are very flawed for admixture purposes and only good for the relatives it detects for you. If you want the best picture of your ancestry more advanced methods and software is required in my own personal opinion.