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Generalissimo
04-01-2019, 08:24 AM
If anyone reading this is a member/editor at Wikipedia, please edit its R1a entry with this info and map. It's a disgrace that these ancient R1a samples haven't yet received any mention there.

Map of pre-Corded Ware culture (>2900 BCE) instances of Y-haplogroup R1a (https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/03/map-of-pre-corded-ware-culture-2900-bce.html)

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0m_m62hPhbk/XKHJ0Gl5YqI/AAAAAAAAHtk/1mUiSmRECc4ly7WwHZLPeWdzDT_Vb_-xwCLcBGAs/s1600/Ancient_Y-hg_R1a.jpg

Michał
04-01-2019, 09:44 AM
We have two R1a-M17 samples reported for the Early Neolitihic cemetery in Lokomotiv (Baikal region), dated to about 6700 BP, IIRC.
See here:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352409X16306927

Also, I would mark both West-Central Europe and Levant on your map, as there were many people who believed R1a originated from one of those two locations. In fact, many of those people are still very active here and on Eurogenes ;)

Generalissimo
04-01-2019, 09:53 AM
We have two R1a-M17 samples reported for the Early Neolitihic cemetery in Lokomotiv (Baikal region), dated to about 6700 BP, IIRC.
See here:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352409X16306927

Those are PCR results, and they haven't been corroborated by shotgun/capture data which has and is about to be published soon.

Michał
04-01-2019, 10:02 AM
Those are PCR results, and they haven't been corroborated by shotgun/capture data which has and is about to be published soon.
That new paper (I guess you mean Damgaard et al.) includes only 2 male samples from Lokomotive, while the earlier study had 7 males from this particular location, including 2 cases of R1a-M17.
I don't think it is fair to exclude that data.

Generalissimo
04-01-2019, 10:09 AM
That new paper (I guess you mean Damgaard et al.) includes only 2 male samples from Lokomotive, while the earlier study had 7 males from this particular location, including 2 cases of R1a-M17.
I don't think it is fair to exclude that data.

I'll include it if it's shown to be correct with a more reliable method. Those R1a results might be due to contamination. Impossible to say with PCR.

Generalissimo
04-01-2019, 10:13 AM
.....

Pribislav
04-01-2019, 11:44 AM
There is also this one:

Ukraine_N1, 4452-4350 BC, Vovnigi 2, Ukraine, R1a1-M459* (xYP1272,M198), JonesCurrentBiology2017

Generalissimo
04-01-2019, 11:52 AM
There is also this one:

Ukraine_N1, 4452-4350 BC, Vovnigi 2, Ukraine, R1a1-M459* (xYP1272,M198), JonesCurrentBiology2017

That's a duplicate of this one...

Ukraine_Neolithic I1378, I2a2a1b1, MathiesonNature2018

Pribislav
04-01-2019, 12:15 PM
That's a duplicate of this one...

Ukraine_Neolithic I1378, I2a2a1b1, MathiesonNature2018

But how did you conclude which of these haplogroup designations is correct? Shouldn't the shotgun sequenced one be more reliable?

Generalissimo
04-01-2019, 02:05 PM
But how did you conclude which of these haplogroup designations is correct? Shouldn't the shotgun sequenced one be more reliable?

I'm not sure what you mean, since that sample's shotgun and capture sequences aren't listed as belonging to R1a anywhere that I'm aware of.

But UDG-treated capture data is indeed more reliable than shotgun data.

Pribislav
04-01-2019, 02:38 PM
I'm not sure what you mean, since that sample's shotgun and capture sequences aren't listed as belonging to R1a anywhere that I'm aware of.

But UDG-treated capture data is indeed more reliable than shotgun data.

It's R1a according to Genetiker's analysis:

https://genetiker.wordpress.com/y-snp-calls-for-ukraine_n1/ (https://genetiker.wordpress.com/y-snp-calls-for-ukraine_n1/)

All three covered positions on R1a level, and two out of three positions on M459 level were derived, along with several derived calls on R and R1 levels, so it seems legit. Maybe someone could contact the authors for clarification.

Dibran
04-01-2019, 06:31 PM
His theory for J2b in Europe is a little bonkers.

Generalissimo
04-01-2019, 08:24 PM
It's R1a according to Genetiker's analysis:

https://genetiker.wordpress.com/y-snp-calls-for-ukraine_n1/ (https://genetiker.wordpress.com/y-snp-calls-for-ukraine_n1/)

All three covered positions on R1a level, and two out of three positions on M459 level were derived, along with several derived calls on R and R1 levels, so it seems legit. Maybe someone could contact the authors for clarification.

Ah, because Genetiker is never wrong. ;)

Check out the discussion about this issue in the comments here...

https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/03/map-of-pre-corded-ware-culture-2900-bce.html