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View Full Version : Y H2 using Snp Tracker tool



Paul333
04-29-2019, 04:33 PM
Regarding Y H2 P96, Ive recently used this tool putting in the snps of Ftdna entries with downstream subclades within the H2 sections.

all show a clear connection to and from, Northern Europe, especially Sweden, with only one exception, one of the two Armenian entries which ends with the location in Medieval Turkey/Anatolia, the other Armenian entry shows same area, but has descendants to Sweden, and Europe.

This is very interesting as there is very little information regarding Y H2 P96, and how it got to Europe, and in my case the UK, but it now seems if the information is confirmed it can offer an answer.

Y H2 seems to of reached Northern Europe, Sweden sometime in the Neolithic/Bronze age, using the SNP Tracker with the FTDNA results used, which suprisingly connect all the lower subclade entries with connections to Sweden other than the medieval Armenian above, mostly through the snp SK1182, which most connect with.

I know there are recent Y H2 findings in Sweden, but it now seems Y H2 also spread from Sweden to areas of Europe thousands of years earlier.

Lupriac
04-29-2019, 04:43 PM
This is incredible. So rare and so ancient. H2 was found in Pre-Pottery Neolithic, along T it migrated from the north i.e Anatolia, so that might also benefit you :)

aaronbee2010
04-29-2019, 04:52 PM
Regarding Y H2 P96, Ive recently used this tool putting in the snps of Ftdna entries with downstream subclades within the H2 sections.

all show a clear connection to and from, Northern Europe, especially Sweden, with only one exception, one of the two Armenian entries which ends with the location in Medieval Turkey/Anatolia, the other Armenian entry shows same area, but has descendants to Sweden, and Europe.

This is very interesting as there is very little information regarding Y H2 P96, and how it got to Europe, and in my case the UK, but it now seems if the information is confirmed it can offer an answer.

Y H2 seems to of reached Northern Europe, Sweden sometime in the Neolithic/Bronze age, using the SNP Tracker with the FTDNA results used, which suprisingly connect all the lower subclade entries with connections to Sweden other than the medieval Armenian above, mostly through the snp SK1182, which most connect with.

I know there are recent Y H2 findings in Sweden, but it now seems Y H2 also spread from Sweden to areas of Europe thousands of years earlier.

As I mentioned in the "R2a-M124 Updates" thread, you may want to try this SNP tracker tool (https://phylogeographer.com/mygrations/) as well.

Here's an example for H2c1a1a1-BY16702:

https://i.gyazo.com/cccd4e8ae391b0ab225f62da8925fc6c.png

picto22
05-01-2019, 12:43 AM
Has there been anymore info on H2 been found...
Tried messaging you paul but its no working.

Paul333
05-01-2019, 12:12 PM
Has there been anymore info on H2 been found...
Tried messaging you paul but its no working.

Hi picto 22

Sorry for the delay, sent you a PM, regarding 'SNP Tracker' giving possible new information regarding Y H2.

Paul.

Paul333
12-18-2019, 07:22 PM
The SNP Tracker tool, Has now removed many European subclade references, and all evidence of the historic presence of YH2 P96 in Europe,....???. I wonder why ?

Pribislav
12-18-2019, 09:28 PM
Ancient H2-P96 samples indicate that this clade started spreading from the Levant during Pre-Pottery Neolithic, and it came to Europe with Anatolian farmers in the 6th millennium BC:

35485

Paul333
12-18-2019, 09:52 PM
Ancient H2-P96 samples indicate that this clade started spreading from the Levant during Pre-Pottery Neolithic, and it came to Europe with Anatolian farmers in the 6th millennium BC:

35485

Thanks, Pribislav,

I do not dispute the Neolithic plus migration periods,and am aware of most of those on your list, but there is also very credible academic opinion that it may also of been in Europe much, much, earlier, around at least 25,000-30,000 years ago, even entering Europe with the first Human migration into Europe.

The period you refer to may include 'back/return later migrations originally from Europe, as some opinions suggest, or a second separate migration out of Africa through the Levant etc, which is what I and others believe could of happened.

Unfortunately the European, now YH2 P96, and its footpaths have been removed from reaching Europe, but only as far as the Iranian area paleolithic period. It had been previously referenced to European area's such as Romania, and beyond, and a number of further journeys of its downstream subclades throughout the whole of Europe

It seems for whatever reasons some people are trying to refute the fact that there was possibility of a very earlier presence of Y H2 or P96 in Europe, before the Neolithic movements, and it is evidence of this earlier phase, that I am seeking, as some of my previous posts on here, and Eupedia indicated.

The list you supply informs that the entry for LD270, YH2a1, P96 Y20838, reached Sweden in the Paleolithic European period, as its pathway to SK1182, and is aged 26,000 yrs. The entry is from this year, put it in to the SNP Tracker and see. ( Use the descendant tool and it will also bring up many paleolithic references throughout Europe ). It has also removed the SNP P96 element completely from this journey to Sweden....Why .???

The 'Y H2a1' Haplogroup, subclades on your post differs from those on ISSOG 2019, whereas the subclades attached are mainly representing 'possible' lower downstream markers of H2c~ and H2c1a1a~ etc, on Y full the ages for the SNP Y21618 ie H2c1a1a is 16,000 yrs.

There are differences, some significant, with YFull H P96 YTree age of SNP Y20838, path to Sweden is showing forming 6,000ybp, with a TMRCA of 3500ybp.

The other subclade Y19962, on your Y H2a1 P96 entry, shows an age of formed 16000ybp, and a TMRCA of 6000 ybp, with a presence in Italy indicated on the Yfull HTree.

This information about Y H2 P96 is out there, it is confusing but it exists. I need to find reliable and trustworthy information as I do belong to this Haplogroup and want to find its true historic journey, not the missleading outdated rubbish In my opinion I was fobbed off with, from both 23 & Me, and Living DNA.

How then can people say 'this evidence' does not exist?, but as with many others it is showing that Y H2a1 P96,Y20838, is at one stage 26,000yrs old in Paleolithic Europe???, and as you will see reading my posts, I quote such references, only to be then accused by some of fabricating this evidence, or to ignore such evidence as it does not exist.

Why is some opinions for a very early pre Neolithic existance of Y H2 P96 so unacceptable by some, and, any sign or opinions suggesting an earlier existance then being constantly removed.

How can Y H2 P96 be classed as seemingly specifically European, on some sites..???,

Paul333
12-20-2019, 08:12 PM
Ancient H2-P96 samples indicate that this clade started spreading from the Levant during Pre-Pottery Neolithic, and it came to Europe with Anatolian farmers in the 6th millennium BC:

35485

Just checked the SNP Index a short time ago, and M9313, is still representing H2a1~, and yet LD270 as on your list is also representing H2a1 P96 etc.

A poster on here,Picto 22, who is also positive for M9313 is Y H2a1 and that a positive call for M9313 is the reason.

My results regarding my positive SNP M9313 came from LivingDNA, who I was informed overlooked this SNP.

When I put this same SNP M9313 into the SNP Tracker, it does not come up with Y H2a1 P96 etc, but comes up tracking Haplogroup Y I2a2a, to I S8522, anybody know the reason, why this confusion still occurs today.

Outside of using the SNP Tracker tool, anybody have any dates for SNP M9313 identifying Y H2a1.

I know rkenobi informed me on the 'other' Y DNA site, that this SNP is Paleolithic and between 16,000 -34,000 yrs old, if this is the case for Y H2a1 P96, then there is possible evidence of Y H2 P96 H2a1, being a lot older, than the age's referenced in your list at LD270. In my opinion

JoeyP37
12-20-2019, 08:42 PM
Sorry my ancestors wiped all your people out, signed R1a guy. Although I am going to point out my cousin R1b helped. H2a should have followed G2a into the mountains for refuge!

Paul333
12-20-2019, 08:49 PM
Sorry my ancestors wiped all your people out, signed R1a guy. Although I am going to point out my cousin R1b helped. H2a should have followed G2a into the mountains for refuge!

It probably did, the women were gorgeous so we stayed a while.

Tjsmcr
12-28-2019, 06:07 PM
Just entered H-Y21630 into SNP tracker and it shows the line as entering Europe in the Paleolithic. Could H2C1a1a1 have entered Europe before H2A1?

Paul333
05-08-2020, 06:05 PM
On the SNP tracker site today.

Y H2,P96 subclades are confirming a possible presence in both Denmark,and Sweden, some 1600 years before present, in Denmark around 1600 YBP, and an even earlier reference in Sweden around 330AD with the Y H2, Subclade Y85270.

Not sure if I am reading or understanding this right, as it is possibly suggesting the Danish entry may have came from Sweden, also as the reference colour is Yellow ie Roman period, which would also suggest an earlier period.

It is confusing as the two area's were not included in the Roman Empire at that time, but may suggest a movement into area's the Romans abandoned, around that period.

There is also a reference shown on the map today for the Y H2 subclade SK1182 in Germany during the Paleolithic.

These may be the most recent references for European Y H2, before modern times. There are two references with this 'snp' one Swedish, and the other Dutch, both associated with this Danish reference of the late Roman period shown.

Which direction did the Y H2, Y85270 subclades come from ?.

Paul333
05-09-2020, 03:50 PM
On the SNP tracker site today.

Y H2,P96 subclades are confirming a possible presence in both Denmark,and Sweden, some 1600 years before present, in Denmark around 1600 YBP, and an even earlier reference in Sweden around 330AD with the Y H2, Subclade Y85270.

Not sure if I am reading or understanding this right, as it is possibly suggesting the Danish entry may have came from Sweden, also as the reference colour is Yellow ie Roman period, which would also suggest an earlier period.

It is confusing as the two area's were not included in the Roman Empire at that time, but may suggest a movement into area's the Romans abandoned, around that period.

There is also a reference shown on the map today for the Y H2 subclade SK1182 in Germany during the Paleolithic.

These may be the most recent references for European Y H2, before modern times. There are two references with this 'snp' one Swedish, and the other Dutch, both associated with this Danish reference of the late Roman period shown.

Which direction did the Y H2, Y85270 subclades come from ?.

Having Looked again today at the FTDNA Y data base, and the SNP Tracker , there is yet another entry for a further Y H2 downstream subclade,showing an early presence in England.

BY172997 is given a date during the early medieval period of around 640AD. and some 1,300+ yrs before present time.

This looks like confirmation Y H2, P96 has been found present in England, during the Anglo-Saxon Period of the late 7th century.

Will have to wait for more details to surface, to find out its connections etc, but it is good news as there is not a lot of this haplogroup about anywhere, and now confirmed in England it hopefully will be interesting to find out where, and on which branch of the tree it fits.

Paul333
05-10-2020, 07:33 PM
Today Looking through the confirmed FTDNA reference of confirmed YH2 SNP's examples 'BY172997I' is also listing a positive marker for M9313+, and is listed inclusive for subclade Y H2c1a1a, and placed under the branch of Y H P96 Y20839.

On the ISOGG 2019/20 index this marker ( M9313~ )is also referencing subclade Y H2a1, but its position unconfirmed.

does the FTDNA 'confirmed reference snp' M9313+ now represent subclade Y H2c1a1a rather than Y H2a1 ? or can it be referenced for both,or other subclades. ?

Paul333
05-11-2020, 12:54 AM
There are two other medieval Y H2 SNP tracker entries showing on the SNP Tracker, Both dated during the Anglo-Saxon periods.

BY37188, referencing the Haplogroup subclade Y H2c1a1, on FTDNA. This is dated to 1,300 YBP, and 700 AD, around the area of West Lancashire, England.

Another Anglo-Saxon period is FGC31857, referencing the Haplogroup subclade Y H2c1a1a1a on FTDNA. This is earlier and dated to 1,400 YBP, but listing a date of 510 AD and is plotted in the Midlands area of England.

There now seems to be three references regarding Y H2 and its subclades in England,during the Anglo-Saxon migration periods,if including the 'BY172997' mentioned above. These three individual references are the only Y H2, referenced in England before modern times,but are they related, or connected, or are they three seperate and possibly older long established local identities.

If these entries are related to the YH2 Danish FTDNA reference subclade of Y85270 ( 1,400 YBP
and 330AD ) referencing the Haplogroup Y H2c1a1~ ( unconfirmed I believe by the attached symbol ~ ).

It then could be possible that these related Y H2 individuals, could therefore possibly represent a small group, or family movement of Anglo-Saxon migrants from Southern Scandinavia,via Denmark and Frisea, to England, within the known timeframe' of these migrations.

The group consist of references to the migration period, and places, of Frisea ( Dutch ) Denmark ( Danes/Angles/Jutes ) and Sweden ( Danes ).

They are English, Dutch, Danish, Swedish, references totallying around six, but all during the periods from 330AD through to 700AD, in locations that share, and may represent a footpath of the migration period, from the continent to England.

As there is very little information to separate and identify the Anglo-Saxon migrants from the later Danish Vikings in England, if we are lucky then this may be a possibility to do just that with a group of people sharing a unique and rare Haplogroup, who are documented in the right places during the right times.

Food for thought, and fingers crossed, that these small group of Y H2 people's are all related, if they prove to be, then it is worth considering, that the Haplogroup Y 'H2c1a1' etc may possibly hold the key in helping to track and trace a small migration period group's pathway to England.

Tjsmcr
05-20-2020, 01:47 PM
Thank you for those very interesting posts. My haplogroup has now been updated to H-BY37186. West Lancashire is a possible place of origin for my ancestors. Could the individual with Haplogroup H-BY37188 be an ancestor of mine?

Paul333
05-20-2020, 05:53 PM
Thank you for those very interesting posts. My haplogroup has now been updated to H-BY37186. West Lancashire is a possible place of origin for my ancestors. Could the individual with Haplogroup H-BY37188 be an ancestor of mine?

Hi Tjsmcr
The way I read it, the SNP BY37188, will be a descendant of SNP BY37186, I think the higher the number the more recent the age.

Your terminal SNP, BY-37186, is given an age of 31,000 years before present, in Paleolithic Europe, and BY-37188 is given an age of only 1,300 years before present in England, ie meaning a lot closer in date, around 700 AD, therefore it seems he has to be a 'descendant' and not an 'ancestor' of your SNP BY-37186.

Without you having BY-37188, it cannot be confirmed as your Ancestor.

At least Y H2 is now being confirmed in England, and a lot closer in time. We now need to hope we can find out whether Y H2 has been here for thousands of years, ie,prehistory, or has it only came in the last 2000 yrs or so, with Roman, or Anglo-Saxon migration movements as its now confirmed as being here as early as the seventh century AD.

Tjsmcr
05-22-2020, 07:03 PM
Thank you. Do we know when H2A1 split from H2C1a1a1? How long ago was our most recent common ancestor? Our lines of descent may have entered Britain at quite different times and taken different routes.

Paul333
05-22-2020, 09:36 PM
Thank you. Do we know when H2A1 split from H2C1a1a1? How long ago was our most recent common ancestor? Our lines of descent may have entered Britain at quite different times and taken different routes.

Not sure if it did split from Y H2C1a1a1, as Y H2a1 seems to be an earlier group as it is further back on the tree. The problem is theres so few of us about,modern or ancient, it was even believed to of been extinct a few years ago. Im still stuck hanging around the Med with Y H2 P96. Paleolithic

Its still a waiting game for new information, we just have to have patience, or a long life.

There has been a little bit of movement on the SNP front, on FTDNA. Two Y H2 references have been moved down the listings below some Y H3 haplogroups even, these are on the FTDNA Y Haplo group project page,with SNPs 'H Y21616', and 'Y H Y85270'. FTDNA seem to have put these two, listings out of the way for some reason, maybe they do not know there correct position, or are waiting for some confirmation regarding them both, but it seems strange where they are now.

Theres also a list of Y H2a1 on a recent post on this forum in Ancient genomes-wide Dna from France, posted Yesterday, on page one it lists a number of both Y & MtDNA, Haplogroups, and includes 10 references for Y H2, mostly Y H2a1, but without the references it means very little to me.

Tjsmcr
06-16-2020, 08:41 PM
Thanks Paul. Hopefully, more information will appear. The results I've seen for ancient DNA only seem to show H2 with no further precision. We shall just have to wait. Best wishes Tim

Paul333
06-16-2020, 09:08 PM
Thanks Paul. Hopefully, more information will appear. The results I've seen for ancient DNA only seem to show H2 with no further precision. We shall just have to wait. Best wishes Tim

Hi Tjsmcr,
Theres is a new entry on the Y Full H P96 branch, under H-Y20839, ( id-HGDP00528, 'Analysis in progress' ). This branch has as one of the SNPs *Y21630, age is showing 3,500 YBP with a TMRC of 3,100 YBP. I understand you are positive for this SNP, 'Y21630' so hopefully it will give more information soon.

Theres a lot of Y H2a1 around Europe recently being confirmed. Look under 'Ancient (aDNA)' on this site, and at the top is a heading for a sub forum entitled 'Uniparental Analysis' Go into this and look at the first, and second main, posts, they list many Y Haplogroups, including Y H2, Y H2a1,and some Y H2c1a, listed mostly in Germany, and France. The second post refers to the SNP confusion, and why some are just given as only Y H2.

There is an ancient one listed as aged 14,780 YBP in Germany, but Its just listed as Y H2. It is positive for SNP L284.

regards Paul333

Tjsmcr
06-17-2020, 09:48 PM
Thank you. That's very interesting. I've now uploaded my results to Yfull and am now showing under H-Y20839.