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Paul333
05-05-2019, 03:50 PM
The mtdna section of the Y Full tree, has today updated its information. The Mtdna haplogroup H1c, is now showing new dating, as formed 3500 ybp (years before present,) and a time of most recent common ancestor is now 2100 ybp ( TMRCA ).

Mtdna new dates for H1c3 are formed 800 ybp, and TMRCA is 650 ybp.

Paul333
05-14-2019, 06:58 PM
The mtdna section of the Y Full tree, has today updated its information. The Mtdna haplogroup H1c, is now showing new dating, as formed 3500 ybp (years before present,) and a time of most recent common ancestor is now 2100 ybp ( TMRCA ).

Mtdna new dates for H1c3 are formed 800 ybp, and TMRCA is 650 ybp.

The last update's from YFull tree Mtdna, informed on 11th May 2019, that Mtdna H1c3, was now formed 1,300 ybp, with a new TMRCA of 1,050 ybp. It also dated H1c as being formed 15,100 ybp, with a TMRCA of 7,500 ybp.

Paul333
06-09-2019, 01:16 AM
Ive just been browsing through my '23 & Me' ' raw data', and I have References regarding SNP Markers, that may or may not 'help me move further downstream of my mtdna 'H1c3' Haplogroup.

I have a Marker SNP of i4001356, with a Genomic position of 16176, with Variants C or T, my Genotype C.

I have another Marker SNP of i4001236, with a Genomic position 16362, with Variants C or T, my Genotype T


The reason I ask is that I came across two further downstream subclades of Mtdna,H1c3, one H1c3a, and the other H1c3b.

H1c3a is defined with a SNP marker C16176 T

H1c3b is defined with a SNP marker T16362 C

How can I find out if the information I have regarding my raw data above fits any of these further two downstream subclades of H1c3, or is this information of no use for these, and therefore rules me out.

Thanks for any help

ArmandoR1b
06-09-2019, 01:53 AM
Ive just been browsing through my '23 & Me' ' raw data', and I have References regarding SNP Markers, that may or may not 'help me move further downstream of my mtdna 'H1c3' Haplogroup.

I have a Marker SNP of i4001356, with a Genomic position of 16176, with Variants C or T, my Genotype C.

I have another Marker SNP of i4001236, with a Genomic position 16362, with Variants C or T, my Genotype T


The reason I ask is that I came across two further downstream subclades of Mtdna,H1c3, one H1c3a, and the other H1c3b.

H1c3a is defined with a SNP marker C16176 T

H1c3b is defined with a SNP marker T16362 C

How can I find out if the information I have regarding my raw data above fits any of these further two downstream subclades of H1c3, or is this information of no use for these, and therefore rules me out.

Thanks for any help

Have you tested with anyone else? 23andme doesn't test the full mtDNA genome and even if they did not all reads are 100% accurate. Since you know how to look up the above SNPs I assume you looked up the other positions and found them missing from your raw data. That would be because they weren't tested. The only way to find out if you are positive or negative for them is to get tested for them which means you have to get an FTDNA full sequence mtDNA test or a Yseq mtComplete test.

Paul333
06-09-2019, 12:21 PM
Thanks for the reply.

I have tested with two companies Living DNA, & 23 & Me. I only got 7 Basic mtdna SNPs,with Living DNA. The 23 & Me Raw Data information, is more confusing to understand. I also had a 17 STR test, that could not identify my Y Haplogroup.

On the YFull M tree I found only five numbers similar to the ones above under the H1c3 entry. In regard to the two most common lower subclades the two numbers I have come across, I have one for each for them, as above.

Regarding the other three, I do not have A16219G for H1c3a, and do not have T16189C for H1c3b, and regarding the other, T146C! for H1c3a I also do not have this, even though it looks incomplete. There are astrisks against some of these, and the T146c!, has its exclamation mark at the end.

On checking the raw Data today, I have to correct the H1c3b SNP Marker entry above 'SNP i4001236', to the following -

- SNP Marker i3001888, with Genomic position 16362, Variants C or T, and my Genotype T.

There are some further down Subclades, but these two have been known for some time.

Regarding the above is the Genotype T placed at the beginning of the number or the end ?, and what, which or where does the variants C-T go.??

I do intend to test further as I said, but for now I will wait a while and hope for developments, before I decide which way to go, but regarding MTDNA, will I have any further data, that could, or would take me any further.

Its confusing, with the information I have.

I also found a further downstream reference today, on the YFull Mtree for Mtdna H1c3b1, which includes the identifying SNP Marker A13933G.

I have in my Raw Data a similar SNP Marker i5050661 with Genomic position '13933', variants A or G with my Genotype 'A'. this reference is for H1c3b1, which is further downstream.

ArmandoR1b
06-09-2019, 10:29 PM
Thanks for the reply.

I have tested with two companies Living DNA, & 23 & Me. I only got 7 Basic mtdna SNPs,with Living DNA. The 23 & Me Raw Data information, is more confusing to understand. I also had a 17 STR test, that could not identify my Y Haplogroup.

On the YFull M tree I found only five numbers similar to the ones above under the H1c3 entry. In regard to the two most common lower subclades the two numbers I have come across, I have one for each for them, as above.

Regarding the other three, I do not have A16219G for H1c3a, and do not have T16189C for H1c3b, and regarding the other, T146C! for H1c3a I also do not have this, even though it looks incomplete. There are astrisks against some of these, and the T146c!, has its exclamation mark at the end.

On checking the raw Data today, I have to correct the H1c3b SNP Marker entry above 'SNP i4001236', to the following -

- SNP Marker i3001888, with Genomic position 16362, Variants C or T, and my Genotype T.

There are some further down Subclades, but these two have been known for some time.

Regarding the above is the Genotype T placed at the beginning of the number or the end ?, and what, which or where does the variants C-T go.??

I do intend to test further as I said, but for now I will wait a while and hope for developments, before I decide which way to go, but regarding MTDNA, will I have any further data, that could, or would take me any further.

Its confusing, with the information I have.

I also found a further downstream reference today, on the YFull Mtree for Mtdna H1c3b1, which includes the identifying SNP Marker A13933G.

I have in my Raw Data a similar SNP Marker i5050661 with Genomic position '13933', variants A or G with my Genotype 'A'. this reference is for H1c3b1, which is further downstream.

The RSIDs such as i3001888 are really irrelevant. It's the position, genotype, mutation and subclade that matters. Even the exclamation mark is just additional information that simply means it's a back mutation for that specific subclade.

The mutation is noted as the ancestral allele, the position, the derived allele. If you have the ancestral allele in your genotype then you are negative for the mutation. If you have the derived allele for your genotype then you are positive. So for T16362C which defines H1c3b means that if your genotype is T then you are negative (ancestral). If C then you are positive (derived). Since you have Genotype T then you are negative (ancestral).

For A13933G you are negative since you have the ancestral allele of A for your Genotype.

If you are negative for a mutation then you are negative for the subclade so you can then ignore those subclades. If the position is missing from the 23andme raw data it means it wasn't tested. There is nothing more you can do at the moment if it is missing.

Paul333
06-10-2019, 10:48 AM
The RSIDs such as i3001888 are really irrelevant. It's the position, genotype, mutation and subclade that matters. Even the exclamation mark is just additional information that simply means it's a back mutation for that specific subclade.

The mutation is noted as the ancestral allele, the position, the derived allele. If you have the ancestral allele in your genotype then you are negative for the mutation. If you have the derived allele for your genotype then you are positive. So for T16362C which defines H1c3b means that if your genotype is T then you are negative (ancestral). If C then you are positive (derived). Since you have Genotype T then you are negative (ancestral).

For A13933G you are negative since you have the ancestral allele of A for your Genotype.

If you are negative for a mutation then you are negative for the subclade so you can then ignore those subclades. If the position is missing from the 23andme raw data it means it wasn't tested. There is nothing more you can do at the moment if it is missing.

Thank you
That helps me a lot to understand these

Paul333
06-15-2019, 07:53 PM
Regarding the lower subclades of H1c3, Ive just been checking some raw data again, and I have come across two similar SNP markers in my Raw Data for H1c3a, that I missed, but think I am positive for, these are both 23 & Me raw data references,(1) i 4001356 16176 C, and (2) i705670 16176 C,. the position is 16176 and the genotype is C for both.

On the Yfull tree for H1c3a, there are three identifying SNP's (1) T146c!,(2) 'C16176T', and (3) A16219G. Two of these I am negative for as discussed ( T146C!, and A16219G )above, in earlier posts, but I do have two SNP Markers for C 16176. How is this worked out, does the two C 16176 positives I have mean I have the subclade H1c3a, or because I have two negatives I do not.

I am still trying to figure this out, but I came across an entry on the Family Tree British isle Dna by county, and it has kit no 235906, for a lady born in Germany 1467 H1c3a, and comparing her MTDNA entry, she has included in her data the same negative of A16219G, as I have, but the same positive SNP C16176, as I have, but with a T on the end, and she is H1c3a. I have also found another H1c3a, from Northern Ireland, with the same,negative and posative SNPs, living around 1830.

How do I figure this out, being both positive, and negative, for the same subclade.

Paul333
06-15-2019, 07:54 PM
Double post, sorry

ArmandoR1b
06-15-2019, 10:51 PM
Regarding the lower subclades of H1c3, Ive just been checking some raw data again, and I have come across two similar SNP markers in my Raw Data for H1c3a, that I missed, but think I am positive for, these are both 23 & Me raw data references,(1) i 4001356 16176 C, and (2) i705670 16176 C,. the position is 16176 and the genotype is C for both.

On the Yfull tree for H1c3a, there are three identifying SNP's (1) T146c!,(2) 'C16176T', and (3) A16219G. Two of these I am negative for as discussed ( T146C!, and A16219G )above, in earlier posts, but I do have two SNP Markers for C 16176. How is this worked out, does the two C 16176 positives I have mean I have the subclade H1c3a, or because I have two negatives I do not.

I am still trying to figure this out, but I came across an entry on the Family Tree British isle Dna by county, and it has kit no 235906, for a lady born in Germany 1467 H1c3a, and comparing her MTDNA entry, she has included in her data the same negative of A16219G, as I have, but the same positive SNP C16176, as I have, but with a T on the end, and she is H1c3a. I have also found another H1c3a, from Northern Ireland, with the same,negative and posative SNPs, living around 1830.

How do I figure this out, being both positive, and negative, for the same subclade.

Since you have C for 16176 that means you are negative for C16176T because your Genotype is the ancestral (negative) allele which means that you are negative for H1c3a. To be positive for a mutation your Genotype has to match the derived (positive) allele which in this case is T. Please ignore RSIDS such as i4001356 and i705670. They have no bearing on positive or negative results.

Paul333
06-15-2019, 11:46 PM
Since you have C for 16176 that means you are negative for C16176T because your Genotype is the ancestral (negative) allele which means that you are negative for H1c3a. To be positive for a mutation your Genotype has to match the derived (positive) allele which in this case is T. Please ignore RSIDS such as i4001356 and i705670. They have no bearing on positive or negative results.

Thanks again ArmandoR1b, back to the searching again, still baffled, and confused but learning.

If the Raw Data (from 23 & Me ) I use only has the number say 16176, and a letter say 'C' as here in this case, and no other letters, then C must be my Genotype allele, so it would be C16176, with a missing end letter, which if you are saying for 'positive' the end in this case has to be a derived Genotype 'T' in order to have me as H1c3a, which I do not have. I therefore cannot be H1c3a.

If this then is the case, and I have only a single letter attached to each or most of my Raw Data, with no other letters but this single one for each, then all my 23 & Raw Data, is showing nothing but negatives, on that basis I am wasting my time, as they are not going to be complete or matched.

Also the positive derived allele,is shown both first, in some of my references, and also last as here with 'T'. The previous post mentioned my derived Genotype as 'A' negative whilst at the begining, but here it is the missing 'T' which is placed at the end. Is this because the letter was missing, as I am confused as they can be at both ends, It is confusing me. If letters are missing does that prove negative, and that the letter associated is always ancestral, if others are not present. ?.

ArmandoR1b
06-16-2019, 03:33 AM
Thanks again ArmandoR1b, back to the searching again, still baffled, and confused but learning.

If the Raw Data (from 23 & Me ) I use only has the number say 16176, and a letter say 'C' as here in this case, and no other letters, then C must be my Genotype allele, so it would be C16176, with a missing end letter, which if you are saying for 'positive' the end in this case has to be a derived Genotype 'T' in order to have me as H1c3a, which I do not have. I therefore cannot be H1c3a.

If this then is the case, and I have only a single letter attached to each or most of my Raw Data, with no other letters but this single one for each, then all my 23 & Raw Data, is showing nothing but negatives, on that basis I am wasting my time, as they are not going to be complete or matched.

Also the positive derived allele,is shown both first, in some of my references, and also last as here with 'T'. The previous post mentioned my derived Genotype as 'A' negative whilst at the begining, but here it is the missing 'T' which is placed at the end. Is this because the letter was missing, as I am confused as they can be at both ends, It is confusing me. If letters are missing does that prove negative, and that the letter associated is always ancestral, if others are not present. ?.

It's much simpler than you have interpreted. We all only have one Genotype for each mtDNA position. The only reason that mutations are shown with two alleles is so that you know which allele is the ancestral (negative) and which allele is the derived (positive). We all have just one or the other. We all have either just the ancestral (negative) allele or just the derived (positive) allele. You can't have both the ancestral and derived allele except in the very rare case of an insertion. 23andme shows just your Genotype. If you are positive for an SNP then you have just the derived allele for that SNP and it is reflected in the raw data. For example, H1c3 is defined by A257G and T8473C. That means that 23andme shows you just have C for the Genotype for position 8473. So your 23andme raw data isn't showing nothing but negatives. If you want to see a list of positives upload to https://dna.jameslick.com/mthap/ You can post your results here so we can go over the data to help you understand your raw data.

Paul333
06-16-2019, 01:45 PM
It's much simpler than you have interpreted. We all only have one Genotype for each mtDNA position. The only reason that mutations are shown with two alleles is so that you know which allele is the ancestral (negative) and which allele is the derived (positive). We all have just one or the other. We all have either just the ancestral (negative) allele or just the derived (positive) allele. You can't have both the ancestral and derived allele except in the very rare case of an insertion. 23andme shows just your Genotype. If you are positive for an SNP then you have just the derived allele for that SNP and it is reflected in the raw data. For example, H1c3 is defined by A257G and T8473C. That means that 23andme shows you just have C for the Genotype for position 8473. So your 23andme raw data isn't showing nothing but negatives. If you want to see a list of positives upload to https://dna.jameslick.com/mthap/ You can post your results here so we can go over the data to help you understand your raw data.

Thanks again ArmandoR1b, that has helped me understand about my Raw Data. Im not to keen to send my Raw Data anywhere yet, its all attached, and when I tried to print some pages of my MTDNA, it showed thousands of pages,including my Y Data, so I give up trying. ( Although I was given seven positive Mtdna SNP's with my LivingDNA results ) So I will leave it for now untill I learn a bit more. Im glad that I now Know my Raw Data from 23 & Me is only showing negatives, this is very helpfull to me.

ArmandoR1b
06-16-2019, 03:49 PM
Thanks again ArmandoR1b, that has helped me understand about my Raw Data. Im not to keen to send my Raw Data anywhere yet, its all attached, and when I tried to print some pages of my MTDNA, it showed thousands of pages,including my Y Data, so I give up trying. ( Although I was given seven positive Mtdna SNP's with my LivingDNA results ) So I will leave it for now untill I learn a bit more. Im glad that I now Know my Raw Data from 23 & Me is only showing negatives, this is very helpfull to me.

The raw data from 23andme is not only showing negatives. The 23andme raw data shows the positive allele for when you are positive for a mutation and it shows the negative allele when you are negative for an allele.

In order for you to understand what happens with the James Lick mtDNA calculator, instead of uploading your raw data download a reference mtDNA file for haplogroup H1c3 specimen KF162307.1 which is the first one at YFull, go to https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/search/all/?term=KF162307.1 then click on download and save the file to your computer then go to https://dna.jameslick.com/mthap/ then click on Browse then point to the KF162307.1.fasta file then upload it and wait a minute or two for the page to update with the results. You will see positive markers in green with the position and the derived (positive) allele. You can then look up each of those positions in your raw data to see which allele you have for your Genotype. Let me know what you find.

Paul333
06-16-2019, 07:31 PM
ArmandoR1b, Thanks
Ive followed your advice and have looked at three KF162307.1, KF523403.1, and KF16891.1, upto now.

I downloaded them and uploaded them as you recomended, but I cannot move yet, as I only have seven ' LivingDNA positive' (Green ) which took me to H1c3.

I will look through more 23 & Me later, and try to find matches but how do I know if my 23 & Me Raw Data, is negative or positive, as I only have my Genotype, defined, on the 23 & Me Raw Data, and with only the seven LivingDNA Positives which are all matched/included, one way or another ( green ) to the defining H1c3, and no further.

I cannot match with, or find a match with my '23 & Me Raw data' as it has the letters which would help, missing and therefore I do not know how I can locate or complete the sequence for a match. Although I can use the green positives to locate what it should be, ( the Positive Green sequence for the subclade ) that will be all I am able to do at the moment.

Thanks for the information, and advice. I will now go through these over the next few days, and see what I can Find, but I think I will need further updated Mtdna Snps to move to the next downstream subclade.

ArmandoR1b
06-16-2019, 08:44 PM
ArmandoR1b, Thanks
Ive followed your advice and have looked at three KF162307.1, KF523403.1, and KF16891.1, upto now.

I downloaded them and uploaded them as you recomended, but I cannot move yet, as I only have seven ' LivingDNA positive' (Green ) which took me to H1c3.

One of the things that I wanted you to see with the uploads is what the printout is like with the James Lick calculator. Since you have seen what it looks like are you willing to upload your 23andme raw DNA to the James Lick site? If you are worried about privacy see https://dna.jameslick.com/mthap/FAQ.html Ignore the LivingDNA positives for the moment.


I will look through more 23 & Me later, and try to find matches but how do I know if my 23 & Me Raw Data, is negative or positive, as I only have my Genotype, defined, on the 23 & Me Raw Data, and with only the seven LivingDNA Positives which are all matched/included, one way or another ( green ) to the defining H1c3, and no further.
You can tell if your 23andme raw data is negative or positive by comparing your Genotype to the last letter of the mutation. If it is the same then you are positive. If it is different then you are negative. I'll use an example, What is your Genotype for position 263 in the 23andme data? Is it G? If it is then you are positive for the mutation of 263G. Ignore the LivingDNA positives for the moment. The mention of it is making things unnecessarily more complicated at the moment.


I cannot match with, or find a match with my '23 & Me Raw data' as it has the letters which would help, missing and therefore I do not know how I can locate or complete the sequence for a match. Although I can use the green positives to locate what it should be, ( the Positive Green sequence for the subclade ) that will be all I am able to do at the moment.
That is incorrect. The letters that you need are there in the raw data. The problem is not understanding what is being given to you.



....but I think I will need further updated Mtdna Snps to move to the next downstream subclade[/B].
You definitely need a FTDNA full sequence mtDNA test or a Yseq mtComplete test to see if you are positive for a downstream subclade which is the reason I mentioned those tests in my first post of this thread.

Paul333
06-17-2019, 12:45 AM
One of the things that I wanted you to see with the uploads is what the printout is like with the James Lick calculator. Since you have seen what it looks like are you willing to upload your 23andme raw DNA to the James Lick site? If you are worried about privacy see https://dna.jameslick.com/mthap/FAQ.html Ignore the LivingDNA positives for the moment.


You can tell if your 23andme raw data is negative or positive by comparing your Genotype to the last letter of the mutation. If it is the same then you are positive. If it is different then you are negative. I'll use an example, What is your Genotype for position 263 in the 23andme data? Is it G? If it is then you are positive for the mutation of 263G. Ignore the LivingDNA positives for the moment. The mention of it is making things unnecessarily more complicated at the moment.


That is incorrect. The letters that you need are there in the raw data. The problem is not understanding what is being given to you.



You definitely need a FTDNA full sequence mtDNA test or a Yseq mtComplete test to see if you are positive for a downstream subclade which is the reason I mentioned those tests in my first post of this thread.

Thanks again ArmandoR1b
My 23 & Me Mtdna is attached with my Y data, and it is very large, thousands of pages, and would be a large file, and at the moment I do not know what is in it, and the risks of sending my full Dna raw data to something I do not yet fully understand.

The pages I downloaded and uploaded, consisted of mainly three or four different H1c3 Haplogroups, from Basic mtdna H, H1 H1c H1c3, most pages only had about three or four entries, regarding the Data, mostly repeating my seven to H1c3.

The further downstream examples although on Yfull I tried a few, beyond H1c3, the 'C' to 'F' subclades on Yfull and they did not in fact go that far, but only to mainly H1c3, the inf is dated to Feb 2016, mostly so they have not yet caught up.

I will test further but am hoping to have updates from 23 & Me, and if not I will test further but at the moment, its getting used to finding out how to understand and read my DNA.

Your advice is very helpfull, but I am cautious about things I do not fully understand, and do not want to dive in with my eyes shut.

ArmandoR1b
06-17-2019, 01:44 AM
Thanks again ArmandoR1b
My 23 & Me Mtdna is attached with my Y data, and it is very large, thousands of pages, and would be a large file, and at the moment I do not know what is in it, and the risks of sending my full Dna raw data to something I do not yet fully understand.
The 23andme data also has autosomal data attached. It is the same for all of us ever since 23andme combined the mtDNA, Y-DNA, and autosomal DNA in a single file. There is a way to extract the mtDNA with Excel if you know how to use Excel.



I will test further but am hoping to have updates from 23 & Me, and if not I will test further but at the moment, its getting used to finding out how to understand and read my DNA.
23andme does not do updates. If they ever release a new chip with more mtDNA positions tested they would not retest your saliva sample with the new chip. You would have to retest and have a "twin" at 23andme. If you go to the 23andme forum at https://www.23andmeforums.com/discussions and ask about updates of mtDNA they will point this out to you. I tested with the v4 chip and am unable to get a retest with the v5 chip unless I want a "twin". It doesn't matter though because I have already purchased advanced mtDNA and Y-DNA testing at FTDNA and have no need to have an update/upgrade at 23andme.




Your advice is very helpfull, but I am cautious about things I do not fully understand, and do not want to dive in with my eyes shut. No problem. In the end, it's best that you get a FTDNA full sequence mtDNA test or a Yseq mtComplete test for the mtDNA and a Big Y test for the Y-DNA.

Paul333
06-17-2019, 11:28 AM
[Q

No problem. In the end, it's best that you get a FTDNA full sequence mtDNA test or a Yseq mtComplete test for the mtDNA and a Big Y test for the Y-DNA.[/QUOTE]

Thanks again, Armando, a great help.
I will probably end up taking one of these options, after the new year, or sooner, and hopefully this will give me time to learn and understand a bit more about my DNA results, etc.

Paul333
07-29-2019, 07:13 PM
New Update on YFullmtdna, H1c3, is now referenced under a new subclade on the tree as H-c1m2c23d11e, under the SNP references A257G, and T8473C. No further information regarding dates etc yet,

Paul333
08-13-2019, 06:04 PM
New Update on YFullmtdna, H1c3, is now referenced under a new subclade on the tree as H-c1m2c23d11e, under the SNP references A257G, and T8473C. No further information regarding dates etc yet,

Looking on the Yfull M tree today, there is a reference of a new subclade of Mtdna 'H1c32', under these two SNPs.

Paul333
08-30-2019, 12:03 PM
Looking on the Yfull M tree today, there is a reference of a new subclade of Mtdna 'H1c32', under these two SNPs.

The reference has now been further updated to show Snp's A257G,* T8473C, now represent MtDNA 'H1c3b'. This is the most recent update on the YFull M Tree.

Solothurn
08-30-2019, 01:38 PM
Thanks Paul

I thought 16183c 16189C! 16362C represented H1c3b. A257G and T8473 only represent H1c3.

They are still learning the ropes :behindsofa:

Paul333
08-30-2019, 05:24 PM
Thats what I thought, as my earlier posts showed I was negative for the earlier Snps that identified H1c3a and H1c3b, but now it is identifying the two Snps for H1c3 as identifying H1c3b ?. They are making changes but what new evidence or information are they using ??.

I also think a lot of former H subclades have been moved, some to V. I am now checking regular for changes as it might change again as it states under construction.

Not sure about the other two SNP's but SNP T16362C is now under the HVOa branch of the Y Full M tree, as 'new subclade V2e'. It seems it is moved out of the H1c tree completely, and H1c3 has also been removed. The H1c tree is identified from SNP T477C.

On gen bank it is also showing 'T16362C' along side T16124C as representing, 'V2e', but also has both T16189C and 'T16362C', representing H1c3b.

Paul333
09-29-2019, 01:13 PM
Looking at the YFull M Tree, Latest update of 28th Sept 2019, Mtdna Haplogroup H1c3 is now again present, and reverted back to its previous listing position for SNPs A257G,* T8473C, and is 'not' representing the lower subclade of H1c3b.

H1c3b, seems to have also changed back to its original position, and its identifying Snps T16189C!* T16362C, are once again referencing Mtdna Haplogroup H1c3b.

These changes are confusing, but it is still informing ' under construction '