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Scat
05-10-2019, 04:38 PM
One of 45 testing yagnobies is R-U152. 2-3%. And 9 yagnobies - R-z2103(x51) 20%
Yagnobi. Basic info https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaghnobi_people
New test of 45 numbers people. 11 -R1a1, 9-r1b z2103. One -u152. Others-J haplogroup

spruithean
05-10-2019, 05:14 PM
Wow, that's a rare haplogroup to find among the Yaghnobi! I wonder how a U152 carrier made their way to Tajikistan?

Pylsteen
05-10-2019, 05:27 PM
Interesting. I wonder if there may be a connection to the Bashkir/Tatar U152.

ADW_1981
05-10-2019, 05:32 PM
Wow, that's a rare haplogroup to find among the Yaghnobi! I wonder how a U152 carrier made their way to Tajikistan?

There is also some I2-M223-L701 in Iranian speaking groups. Probably from Yamnaya, not sure about the U152.

Lupriac
05-10-2019, 05:47 PM
What about the imprisoned/captive Roman soldiers after the Battle of Edessa took place? Or the supposedly "Lost legions of Carrhae"?
I wonder if that is far-fetched.

The 10,000 Roman prisoners of war appear to have been deported to Alexandria Margiana (Merv in Turkmenistan) near the eastern border in 53 BC, where they reportedly married to local people. It is hypothesized that some of them founded the Chinese city of Liqian after becoming soldiers for the Xiongnu in the Battle of Zhizhi against the Han dynasty, but this is disputed

And some would have made their way to Tajikistan by the medieval times.

DMXX
05-10-2019, 06:24 PM
There's several vectors, though I think ADW's suggestion is the most parsimonious.

We have aDNA from the Iron Age indicating that R1b was present around the Urals. (https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/10/eaat4457) Discounting this, the presence of R-U152 among modern Bashkirs (a pan-Ural population), compels one to consider the possibility that it existed around that region prior to the Turkish identity of the Bashkirs taking a hold.

Those Iron Age R1b's belong to Scytho-Sarmatians, materially-speaking. There were enough north-to-south movements from the historical record alone to implicate a historical (or Iron Age) ancestor for this individual. Do we know the MRCA for this individual relative to the other U152's?

The relationship this sample has with the Yaghnobi language may not a red herring - Yaghnobi isn't a Pamiri language and is thought of as a descendant of Soghdian, a SE Iranian language which ultimately descended from a previously nomadic group. We don't have fine-scale Y-SNP data for the Yaghnobis, so Scat's data's the best we can go on for the time being.

My speculation is that the Z2103's are mostly derived from those Iron Age Trans-Ural Scytho-Sarmatians (a couple may descend from Classical Iranians), and that U152 gentleman's a descendant of a later movement (Yuezhi seems unlikely given the near-absence of U152 east of Kazakhstan - Hepthalites are a possibility).

R.Rocca
05-10-2019, 07:39 PM
There's several vectors, though I think ADW's suggestion is the most parsimonious.

We have aDNA from the Iron Age indicating that R1b was present around the Urals.[/URL] Discounting this, the presence of R-U152 among modern Bashkirs (a pan-Ural population), compels one to consider the possibility that it existed around that region prior to the Turkish identity of the Bashkirs taking a hold.

Those Iron Age R1b's belong to Scytho-Sarmatians, materially-speaking. There were enough north-to-south movements from the historical record alone to implicate a historical (or Iron Age) ancestor for this individual. Do we know the MRCA for this individual relative to the other U152's?

The relationship this sample has with the Yaghnobi language may not a red herring - Yaghnobi isn't a Pamiri language and is thought of as a descendant of Soghdian, a SE Iranian language which ultimately descended from a previously nomadic group. We don't have fine-scale Y-SNP data for the Yaghnobis, so Scat's data's the best we can go on for the time being.

My speculation is that the Z2103's are mostly derived from those Iron Age Trans-Ural Scytho-Sarmatians (a couple may descend from Classical Iranians), and that U152 gentleman's a descendant of a later movement (Yuezhi seems unlikely given the near-absence of U152 east of Kazakhstan - Hepthalites are a possibility).

Correct, and one Scythian (scy009) belonged to U152. I don't doubt it was already as far spread as modern Bashkortostan.

Scat
05-10-2019, 08:02 PM
wow. did not expect such interest. if so, then I will say that Russian scientists still have a month in March(why I, as always, know everything so late) wrote an article about yagnobtsy where a comprehensive analysis was made about everything, the game, cute, autosomes. Unfortunately, in my opinion, Russian scientists are somewhat politicized and conservative, as well as traditionally cautious, so they made very mild conclusions that there was no sensation, the lambs in general were mostly autochromic and differed little from the Tajiks, although in general they were between Central Asian and North Caucasian populations. The key in R1b see into the North Caucasus. apparently in Alans. By the way, the haplotypes are relatively young. R1b u152 about 1000-1300 years. But at whole Russians analysis was very good. This state http://xn--c1acc6aafa1c.xn--p1ai

Scat
05-10-2019, 08:13 PM
By the way, Russian scientists refer to this source https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/ajpa.23789 Thus, the research itself is Italian. Tried University of Bologna. Why are the Italian members of the forum silent and I will find out after a couple of months from the Russians?
It seems that Italian scientists are even more conservative in their assessments and do not want to see any sensation. But the work is very very high quality. In supporting info there are even complete haplotypes with all markers. Full openness of information. Very good

DMXX
05-10-2019, 08:20 PM
... Why are the Italian members of the forum silent and I will find out after a couple of months from the Russians?

Do you genuinely think "the Italians" in this forum are obligated to report every aDNA discovery from Italy to you?

szahel
05-10-2019, 08:21 PM
"...the presence of R-U152 among modern Bashkirs (a pan-Ural population), compels one to consider the possibility that it existed around that region prior to the Turkish identity of the Bashkirs taking a hold."

That would explain the U152 sample in the Conqueror Magyars

30373

Scat
05-10-2019, 08:26 PM
Not obligated of course. And not to me... But if this info so interesting for this forum... or is not so interesting. Well. Maybe they just didn't follow. No matter

Scat
05-10-2019, 08:32 PM
Szachel what do you think about Hungarian z156? Especially new Hungarian in df98

Scat
05-14-2019, 09:46 AM
Nevgen predictor showed 92% L2-Z49-S8183-S8172 in this yaghnoby u152

Acque agitate
05-14-2019, 01:26 PM
Mistaken.
You are on the wrong track ...



Nevgen predictor showed 92% L2-Z49-S8183-S8172 in this yaghnoby u152

Scat
05-15-2019, 08:29 AM
This is the info from the predictor. But I am not an expert. do not share the information why you think this way is wrong

Acque agitate
05-25-2019, 02:48 PM
Ciao Scat,
I have to rectify what I have reported and for this I apologize to you.
I badly rearranged the data contained in the file attached to the study.
I confirm that there is a high probability that the yagnobi person U152+ is R1b> L2-Z49-S8183-S8172.
I also point out to you that it seems to me that he is close to other R1b> L2-Z49-S8183-S8172 people who have been found in the same area.
In my opinion it is probable that the origin is Gothic or similar populations that I have been studying for some time.
There are also other things that I will explain to you later when I have better analyzed other related data.



This is the info from the predictor. But I am not an expert. do not share the information why you think this way is wrong