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lppt
05-16-2019, 09:44 PM
I did the Y37 test. Like YSEQ, my haplogroup is J-M267 (J1).

My Y STR results:
12,22,14,11,14-18,11,15,12,13,11,31,19,8-9,11,12,25,14,20,26,12-14-16-17,11,10,22-22,15,14,20,18,33-35,13,10

According to nevgen, my haplogroup is J1a2a1a2 P58.

12 markers only 1 match (J1 YDNA project) - genetic distance 1

25 markers only 1 match as well - genetic distance 1

37 markers the match is the same as the 25 but with a genetic distance 2

FTDNA recommends J1 - M267v3 SNP Pack. Im a bit lost here.

RCO
05-17-2019, 12:03 AM
Your 37/2 match tested any other SNP ?

lppt
05-17-2019, 06:13 AM
Your 37/2 match tested any other SNP ?

The 12 (J-M267) match no. The 25 and 37 that is the same, YSC0000235. What does it mean?

RCO
05-17-2019, 01:25 PM
YSC0000235/PF4881 here:
https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z2317/

lppt
05-17-2019, 01:39 PM
Thank you RCO! What should i do next? Can i find out who my ancestors were?

aaronbee2010
05-17-2019, 02:12 PM
Looking at the J1 project, out of the other members (I found a kit with 100% identical STR's to the ones you posted, so I'm assuming that's you) on there who've also had a SNP test with FTDNA, there are three matches with a GD of less than 10:

One J-YSC0000235 kit with a GD of 7, one J-Z27682 kit with a GD of 7, and one J-YSC0000235 kit with a GD of 8.

On YFull, all Portuguese J-P58 samples come under J-YSC0000234 (a subclade of J-YSC0000235).

While I can't find any Portuguese J-Z27682 anywhere (I'm not a member of the J1 project, so some private samples there may exist, I have no idea), three South American samples (two on YFull and one on FTDNA) do come under that subclade. Considering South Americas history, it would make sense that these subclades entered that region from the Iberian peninsula.

Overall, I think it's safe to say you come somewhere under J-YSC0000235, with J-YSC0000234 being the most likely subclade you come under.

YSC0000235, YSC0000234 and Z27682 are SNP mutations, just like M267.

lppt
05-18-2019, 07:47 AM
Thank you a lot aaronbee2010!

My subclade is probably J-Z2313 like you said.

One thing i cant understand. Nevgen says Im J1a2a1a2 P58. When i read genetic studies its always J1a2b P58 and J1a2a P56. How am I J1a2a and P58?!

RCO
05-18-2019, 08:35 AM
You can test FTDNA J1-Pack or Big Y, the best and more expensive option.

aaronbee2010
05-18-2019, 10:38 AM
Thank you a lot aaronbee2010!

My subclade is probably J-Z2313 like you said.

One thing i cant understand. Nevgen says Im J1a2a1a2 P58. When i read genetic studies its always J1a2b P58 and J1a2a P56. How am I J1a2a and P58?!

Genetic studies have been around for a long time. Y-DNA trees are updated somewhat often, so it makes sense that the trees some of these genetic studies use are now considered outdated.

Looking at my case, M124 was first considered to come under P1 (it was considered the sister clade of Q-M242 and R-M207) then it was discovered that M124 actually was a descendant of R-M207 (it was assigned as R2). Eventually, the M479 mutation was discovered and found to come between M207 and M124, so M124 got reassigned to R2a, where its been ever since. Sorry that this example may not be completely relevant to you, but I thought it would give you a good idea of how SNP assignments change with time, and it's an example that I'm familiar with.

The main thing to look at is the SNP itself, as that never changes. If I'm looking for my lineage in a study, it doesn't matter whether M124 is assigned to P1, R2 or R2a, I know that it's my lineage. The M124 SNP will always exist regardless of where it's found on a specific tree.

In your case, all that matters is that it says you come under P58, regardless of whether it says J1a2b or J1a2a1a2.

lppt
05-18-2019, 11:28 AM
Thank you once again aaronbee2010!

I was searching through wikipedia and saw this:

"YCAII=22-22 and DYS388≥15" cluster

Thats exactly me!

YCAII=22-22 and DYS388=15

What does it mean? My ancestor was probably a jew or a phoenician, right?

aaronbee2010
05-18-2019, 09:19 PM
Thank you once again aaronbee2010!

I was searching through wikipedia and saw this:

"YCAII=22-22 and DYS388≥15" cluster

Thats exactly me!

YCAII=22-22 and DYS388=15

What does it mean? My ancestor was probably a jew or a phoenician, right?

I doubt it personally - your closest matches on FTDNA also have YCAII = 22-22 and DYS388=15.

Yaroslav
05-19-2019, 08:12 AM
Thank you a lot aaronbee2010! One thing i cant understand. Nevgen says Im J1a2a1a2 P58. When i read genetic studies its always J1a2b P58 and J1a2a P56. How am I J1a2a and P58?!


J1a2a, J1a2b and so on - it is all ISOGG nomenclature which is constantly changing from time to time. Pay the first attention to the SNP names: P58, P56 and so on. As it was said many times above the information about the SNPs (the phylogenetic position and the age estimates) could be found on the YFull tree.

lppt
05-19-2019, 10:04 AM
Thank you Yaroslav!

aaronbee2010 i cant find my kit (B278137) on J1 project. Im doing something wrong or it isnt there yet?

aaronbee2010
05-19-2019, 10:55 AM
Thank you Yaroslav!

aaronbee2010 i cant find my kit (B278137) on J1 project. Im doing something wrong or it isnt there yet?

You're on the last page, in the "Ungrouped" section.

An administrator needs to assign you to a specific section. He/she can do this based on your closest STR matches, but undertaking further SNP testing (via a SNP pack or Big Y) would give him/her the certainty needed to add you to a specific section.

lppt
05-21-2019, 12:41 AM
You're right, my bad. Thank you once again. I'll wait for $30 promo for the SNP pack. In the mean time I'll read what i can about J-P58!

Lupriac
05-22-2019, 12:00 PM
What about https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-BY91853/ and https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-FGC17491*/

lppt
06-21-2019, 06:37 PM
So i was waiting my M267 snp pack results and i just got them (well, ftdna hasnt emailed me yet but its already on my profile). Im J1 YSC235! Im still waiting my y67 results. Will i get a break down? YSC235 is like 5000 years old!

Im negative for YSC234 and every branch after that! What does it mean? I think im more lost than ever..

Its safe to say that "im" here (Iberia) since the bronze age?

lppt
06-22-2019, 04:12 PM
Ive been looking at yfull and my haplogroup must be J-Z27682 like aaronbee2010 said! Theres only 4 guys there on yfull! 2 from south America, 1 from China and 1 from Russia. This subclade is quite old! Any ideas?

konian lusitanum
10-19-2019, 07:17 AM
ha ha ha na not you just your ancestor by the way I'm from Iberia too positive to ycs234 and nothing down from there , i was negative to p58 but my positive snips took me there

lppt
11-03-2019, 10:19 PM
Just ordered Y700 from Y67! $259 was a no brainer :P lets wait and see!

lppt
12-03-2019, 04:41 PM
My big Y results are here!! My haplogroup is indeed J-Z27682!
I still have no clue how the hell my ancestor got here. The only thing I know for sure (right?) is that he was not arab or jew. Can you guys help me?

Ruderico
12-03-2019, 04:46 PM
It's impossible to know so far, it may be Scythian/Sarmatian/Alan for instance, as my probably is. Maybe join one of the projects at FTDNA and ask for help there, maybe they'll have members who didn't do BigY but whose STRs are close enough to yours

lppt
12-03-2019, 04:51 PM
Now that you talk about it, mytrueancestry.com says that my closest ancient populations are:

Visigoth + Illyrian (5.01)
Gallo-Roman + Illyrian (5.988)
Visigoth (8.782)
Illyrian (8.883)
Gallo-Roman (8.913)

So there might be something to it!

Ruderico
12-03-2019, 04:54 PM
Now that you talk about it, mytrueancestry.com says that my closest ancient populations are:

Visigoth + Illyrian (5.01)
Gallo-Roman + Illyrian (5.988)
Visigoth (8.782)
Illyrian (8.883)
Gallo-Roman (8.913)

So there might be something to it!

Not really, MTA is just K15 and your results are kinda average for Portugal. But an ancestor from 1500 years ago would leave no trace on your autosomal profile anyway, it's just too distant

lppt
12-03-2019, 05:01 PM
I would not say my results are average for Portugal because MTA (and other calculators) says that my closest modern populations are:

1. Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon (2.991)
2. Spanish_Cataluna (4.274)
3. Spanish_Murcia (5.369)
4. Portuguese (5.980)

I just need to wait for more results I think.

Ruderico
12-03-2019, 05:07 PM
I would not say my results are average for Portugal because MTA (and other calculators) says that my closest modern populations are:

1. Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon (2.991)
2. Spanish_Cataluna (4.274)
3. Spanish_Murcia (5.369)
4. Portuguese (5.980)

I just need to wait for more results I think.

Portugal is at a distance of 11 for me, yours seem common in comparison. Not that it matters because that has no bearing on haplogroups which was the original point :)

lppt
12-03-2019, 05:14 PM
You are right! I'll just wait for more people to do big Y I guess. Thank you my friend.

RCO
12-04-2019, 01:42 AM
J1-Z27682 is a rare branch. They have some Hispanics, one Chechen, a Chinese ! You should join YFull.

J1 DYS388=13
12-04-2019, 09:41 AM
That Chinese J-Z27682 is from Ningxia. The full name of that place is the Ningxia Hui Autonomous Region, and the Hui are ethnic Chinese Muslims who know that part of their ancestry is from Central Asia or someplace further west.

lppt
12-06-2019, 01:24 PM
My DYS388 has a value of 15. Ive read that 13 is "normal" around Anatolia. 16 and 17 and even 18 among Jews and Arabs. Where do I stand is my question.

I'm using DYS388 value because I've read that its the most stable.

The other guy with the same clade (from Chechnya) got me thinking. People look at me and think that I'm ukrainian or romanian. Maybe theres something to it.

J1 DYS388=13
12-06-2019, 08:08 PM
As far as I know, no one has identified any significance of DYS388=15, 16, 17, or 18.

Agamemnon
12-06-2019, 08:37 PM
That Chinese J-Z27682 is from Ningxia. The full name of that place is the Ningxia Hui Autonomous Region, and the Hui are ethnic Chinese Muslims who know that part of their ancestry is from Central Asia or someplace further west.

Was about to say the same, it looks like a branch that followed the spread of Islam with the Arabs. On the other hand, several basal branches under L862 seem to be distinctly Mesopotamian, for instance take ZS2518 (YP4763) which is also a basal branch of Z2324 much like Z27682 (which is one level downstream under YSC235). This is why in my view, at least one (if not most) of these basal branches under L862 (and above YSC234) might well correlate with the Easter branch of the Semitic language tree, this is in fact what motivated the placement of Z18297 (Y15152 on YFull) as a potential fit for the East Semitic branch on my tree:

https://i.imgur.com/V3xZeGc.jpg

If I had enough space, I would've added several other basal branches here, possibly even Z27682.

So while I would definitely view its current distribution in Iberians, Hui Muslims and Chechens as an after effect of the spread of Islam and therefore Arab dispersals, there's a very real possiblity that this lineage was not in fact originally Arabian or even associated with the earliest Arabs, but rather that this lineage was specifically Mesopotamian, probably arriving in the area with Pre-Sargonic Akkadians or even the very first intrusions of early Semitic speakers, and that it got caught up in the spread of Islam after having been thoroughly Arabised. This should not come as a surprise, as present-day Iraq was one of the earliest areas to absorb large quantities of Arabian migrants (all the way back to the kingdom of Araba/Hatra) and essentially was home to some of the most important cities in the Islamic world.

lppt
12-06-2019, 11:15 PM
From "From Arabia to Iberia: A Y chromosome prospective"

"J1a2b2a*-L222.2 is the only J1a2b-lineage observed in the Northwest African (NA) populations of Tunisia and Morocco. In this region, this mutation displays frequencies of 25% in Sfax, 15% in Béja and 17% in Morocco. However, no individuals with this sub-haplogroup were found in Spain where only paragroup J1a2b2*-L147.1 is detected."

Islam began at the start of the 7th century and eupedia states that only the FGC12 (aka S21237) subclade is linked to the propagation of the religion. So as I see it, my clade is older than Islam.

My family (fathers side) always raised and eat pork. If my ancestor was indeed muslim, would that happen?

I think your second guess makes more sense.

RCO
12-07-2019, 01:03 AM
Agamemnon developed a possible hypothesis about your ancestral origins and location, quite possible. Another point is the situation of your clade in Portugal as a singleton or a rare clade. NW Iberia was a pretty tough place after the Islamic and Berber occupations. Centuries of war, plague, famine and moving frontiers when urban life was destroyed and always threatened in the beginnng of the Reconquista. I think only mainstream Northern clades, politically, socially and religiously well established lineages could survive and expand in those centuries around 1000 AD. We can find several types of J1 clades in Portugal and we can try to guess their origins observing the matches. We have clades close to tribal Arabs, I have seen a Brazilian Portuguese J1-FGC2, other close to the Jewish J1-Cohen modal but they are always alone as survivors from that period remaining in the Portuguese Empire after the Reconquista and the sectarian expulsions, that's what we can try to guess.

lppt
12-07-2019, 08:25 AM
RCO and a very good one I might say. The only reason I doubt my ancestor was muslim is because every place muslim conquered, the clades are much younger than mine. Also, muslims believe that the true lineage of the historic Arab people (mainly from Jordan and Saudi Arabia) is J1-FGC12.

Ruderico
12-07-2019, 10:28 AM
My family (fathers side) always raised and eat pork. If my ancestor was indeed muslim, would that happen?

I wouldn't go there, of course your family eats pork, everyone here does, we haven't had Muslims in the country for over 700 years. That doesn't change the fact that some of our ancestors were at a point in time muslim.

RCO
12-07-2019, 10:39 AM
How can we know if a Portuguese or Iberian lineage had been converted to Islamism or Judaism ? I imagine several Central-Southern Portuguese R1b-DF27 were under Muslim occupation and they could had converted and became Muslim for some generations or for 300-400 years because they are small, broken and isolated clades. We can detect Iberian lineages converting to Judaism and even moving to Eastern Europe. I imagine Northern Christians (Cristãos Velhos) are represented by star-like clusters around the Reconquista and they are well distributed from the North (Galicia, Minho) to the South, Algarve and the Atlantic Islands (Azores, Madeira, Canary) and of course in Brazil, the biggest Portuguese Colony, that's the case of my specific J1- FGC6035 clade. Of course Greek, Phoenician, Roman, Jewish, Iranian (Alan) and Islamic networks and movements could connect and brought people, ideas, religions from the Middle East to Western Iberia. What we can do is to investigate the structure, chronology and occurrence of matches and try to establish/guess ancestral origins and locations, in short and long time, but we don't have absolute assurance of the conditions of our ancestors in the past.

lppt
12-07-2019, 11:29 AM
I wouldn't go there, of course your family eats pork, everyone here does, we haven't had Muslims in the country for over 700 years. That doesn't change the fact that some of our ancestors were at a point in time muslim.

True. I dont mind if my ancestor was indeed muslim (man made religion). What I want to discover is who he was. From where he came. My clade is too old to have been brought by the muslims I think. The muslim guys with whom I share the same clade, only the one from the Dominican Republic is a Big Y match. It does not help me at all.

The one from Chechnya and the other from Ningxia could have turned muslim after the muslim conquests.

Theres a guy in Azores that is at a GD of 1 from me (Y12) but that does not help. The other guy (dead) is at a GD of 1 at Y25 and GD of 2 at Y37. At Y67 I have another dead guy with a GD of 3 and at Y111 with 7. The two dead guys (probably family because they share the same surname "Rocha") have connections to the north of Portugal but thats it. I talked to the daughter of the last one and was her who told me this much.

konian lusitanum
12-07-2019, 08:43 PM
shaft that results on Wegene they will get you the most close clad , too much testing just to spend your bucks and not achieving anything , your haplogroup is 5000 years old it arrived in iberia before smatans hittites ou alamanis it is Sumerian , congratulations you are a real lusitanian

konian lusitanum
12-07-2019, 10:15 PM
more than that , your trm is more older than bronze age no need to be a rock climber to know that mutations don't happen with flick of fingers it needs time and certain factors to happen

lppt
02-01-2020, 10:44 AM
konian lusitanum I'm starting to think that as well. My clade is way old.

Btw, I just visited FTDNA and my clade is no longer Z27682 but Z27670!

lppt
02-08-2020, 02:52 AM
I just uploaded my .vcf file to Yfull. I'm now Z27681.

My ancestor probably came here a long time ago from somewhere near the caucasus.

lppt
03-16-2020, 03:17 AM
So, got an update from Yfull. Im now J1 Z27670. My line is 1694 years old. I, a guy from Colombia and another from Peru shared a TMRCA 1700 years ago. Any ideas? This gives me 326 AD. Barbarian invasions?

levantino II
03-16-2020, 06:41 AM
In my opinion, it looks more pre-barbaric than barbaric. I believe that Colombian and Peruan samples have an origin from some Spanish ancestor, so I believe that Your and there common ancestor have same Iberian ancestry some 1700 years ago. If you would have sample in Italy or Deutschland or Britain I would believe in some barbaric ancestry but for now I'm not convinced. You need some Z27670 (or something between Z27670 and Z27681 ) sample eastern from Iberian peninsula. ;)

Ruderico
03-16-2020, 10:49 AM
So, got an update from Yfull. Im now J1 Z27670. My line is 1694 years old. I, a guy from Colombia and another from Peru shared a TMRCA 1700 years ago. Any ideas? This gives me 326 AD. Barbarian invasions?

TMRCA from modern samples are good if we have a good sample size, but in this case we do not. It could be that the line left no other Iberian descendants 1700 years ago other than yours, even if it arrived 300 years before that. Considering the samples are all of Iberian background that would be my current guess, putting its origin during the Roman era, rather than the migration period...but this is all very, very speculatory.

lppt
03-27-2020, 12:37 PM
How can I tag RCO, Aaron or Agamemnon for example? The admin from the FTDNA J1 group has me in a cluster with 3 other guys. Perez and Espinosa surnames could be jewish surnames. Thats 2 out of 3 (i cant figure out if "de moraes" could be jewish as well.

Were Jews already in Iberia by the third century? Assuming that our TMRCA (320AD) was here and not somewhere else.

Ruderico
03-27-2020, 12:51 PM
Why do you think those surnames are Jewish? Perez is just "son of Pedro" and Morais is not an uncommon name either

RCO
03-27-2020, 01:34 PM
Salve

We can observe one Peruvian and one Colombian in YFull and one Dominican at FTDNA Y-Haplotree
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/J;name=J-Z27670

The next match in FTDNA is from Saudi Arabia and in YFull from China.

Usually Jews and Arabs J1's always have tight clustering and that's not the case. A Chechen Z-27682 and a Chinese do indicate a Northern Middle Eastern area of dispersion that could be related to Islamic movements but YFull chronology - TMRCA 1700 ybp - do indicate a Roman dispersion in Iberia and your ancestors could be in Iberia long before because some parallel branches like YP4763 can be found in Southern Italy and in Sardinia, so a possible ancient Mediterranean Bronze Age, Iron Age or historical (Phoenician) movement also could be considered.
You don't have other Portuguese matches so we can't calculate when your lineage arrived in Western Iberia as well and your specific Portuguese spatial structure. So let's wait for more matches in the next 10 years !

lppt
03-27-2020, 02:44 PM
Ruderico I guess you are right. I just checked forebears.io and Perez is indeed "son of Pedro" and Espinosa "one who came from Espinosa (thorny thicket), in Spain."

Both surnames are quite common in Spain.

Moraes is also from the spanish surname "Morales".

Jorge (mine) is also Iberian, derived from the greek Georgios.

RCO Obrigado. Thats a lot to take in! I have a 111 match (no YFULL sadly) that has connections to Leiria, Pombal and Braga. The surname of this match is "Rocha" and thats Spanish (rojas) in origin as well.

10 years? One can only hope haha

ShpataEMadhe
04-16-2020, 10:28 AM
Most J1 in Europe would be from Arab Muslim expansion (especially P58) but in your case it could be a jewish migration with an Arab father to Iberia before the Muslim conquests

Ilgar
04-18-2020, 10:05 AM
Most J1 in Europe would be from Arab Muslim expansion (especially P58)
This is not true. Most of European J1s and even P58s are pre arabic.

lppt
04-18-2020, 01:41 PM
This is not true. Most of European J1s and even P58s are pre arabic.

What is your opinion on my case? Roman empire? Jews? Or too soon for that?

Btw, can someone change my threads name to "Portuguese J-Z27670"?

Kelmendasi
04-18-2020, 02:07 PM
This is not true. Most of European J1s and even P58s are pre arabic.
I wouldn't bother with him if I was you. He's a troll from Eupedia who was banned due to his Nordicist views and persistence on claiming that anything "exotic" in Europe was the result of Arab admixture. He would even claim that the Ottoman dynasty was purely Arabic rather than Turkish. Moderators should keep a close eye on him.

Ilgar
04-20-2020, 06:51 AM
What is your opinion on my case? Roman empire? Jews? Or too soon for that?

Btw, can someone change my threads name to "Portuguese J-Z27670"?

Well, that Chechen on yfull has Arab ancestors as per russian molgen forum. And neither that Chinese sample indicate East Asian ancestry obviously. Nevertheless I reckon it is too early too name your subclade either arabic or jewish which I don`t believe due to lack of samples. As an option I would consider Iranian origin (not Indo Iranian, just Iran region) cause those guys order tests once in a blue moon :)

ShpataEMadhe
04-20-2020, 05:46 PM
I wouldn't bother with him if I was you. He's a troll from Eupedia who was banned due to his Nordicist views and persistence on claiming that anything "exotic" in Europe was the result of Arab admixture. He would even claim that the Ottoman dynasty was purely Arabic rather than Turkish. Moderators should keep a close eye on him.


I wouldn't bother with him if I was you. He's a troll from Eupedia who was banned due to his Nordicist views and persistence on claiming that anything "exotic" in Europe was the result of Arab admixture. He would even claim that the Ottoman dynasty was purely Arabic rather than Turkish. Moderators should keep a close eye on him.

What nordicist views?

I said the osman family had arab father line, it is an Arab name and they spoke an arab language, forcing the use of it with 80% Arab and iranian words in the Arab alphabet in the osman empire, the language of "turkey" today only became official in the 1920s with much less Arab and Iranian influence.

The original osman "army" was obviously not pure Arab, nor were the osmans. Why? The osmans liked middle eastern and European women so only the y dna was arab. A lot of the middle east had arab y dna by this point, especially regions like Iraq and syria which is right next to Turkey, a lot of the osman army came from previously conquered areas by Arabs so they would have had a lot of arab y dna as we are finding today with dna studies.

Osman empire had much more arab and Iranian influence than "turkic", most turkic weren't even Muslim. As the case with North Africa, most of the "turkic" dna in osmans was most likely MTDNA with Arab y dna, so that small percentage of turkic dna we see in Turkey today is mostly female which is why they have such low numbers for turkic dna groups and high numbers of middle east and Arab groups.

"supervised STRUCTURE (K = 3) illustrates a genetic ancestry for the Turks of 45% Middle Eastern (95% CI, 42–49), 40% European (95% CI, 36–44), and 15% Central Asian (95% CI, 13–16), whereas at K = 4 the genetic ancestry of the Turks was 38% European (95% CI, 35–42), 35% Middle Eastern (95% CI, 33–38), 18% South Asian (95% CI, 16–19), and 9% Central Asian (95% CI, 7–11)."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4904778/

lppt
04-21-2020, 10:39 AM
As an option I would consider Iranian origin (not Indo Iranian, just Iran region) cause those guys order tests once in a blue moon :)

Im starting to think that as well. I was born in a village near Torres Vedras. Its said that the castle of the city was constructed by the alans. The neighbour city its called Alenquer or Alan Ker (alans temple or castle). So maybe, theres something to it. The timeframe is almost spot on (their arrival here and my MRCA).

Shamash
04-21-2020, 06:04 PM
Most J1 in Europe would be from Arab Muslim expansion (especially P58)

I haven't read such a nonsense for a very long time... sorry I'm not that rude usually but that's simply not the case

konian lusitanum
04-23-2020, 02:36 AM
helo brother i did also y37 no longer ago , it only took me to my haplogroup you need a y, 700 to take you to your last clad that possibly can identify your origins i did also the yseq super clad , but without the real big y is hard to find matches there is some matches in yfull tree and ftdna tree but there is no way we contact that sample owners so , i have only 2 distant matches from brasil i suppose, i did that test but if was today i will be doing straight away the big y , less money spent and more perspectives to find man from the same tribe

konian lusitanum
04-23-2020, 02:47 AM
ha ha ha ha , I'm a ignorant in ancestry but you went out of the circle ha ha ha ha at least it did make me laugh , thank you

konian lusitanum
04-23-2020, 02:58 AM
Phoenicians man we are from the same tribes , we split from the alans tree L-620 to be reunited thousands years later in Iberia, well looking into your new position on the yfull tree you now , match very well the time of the alani or vandals arrival in Iberia, congratulations you seems to belong to RCO tribe of colonizers

konian lusitanum
04-23-2020, 03:00 AM
you found it we belong to the same people , Iranians family even today our resemblance is like father like son

konian lusitanum
04-26-2020, 06:45 AM
i been looking into what you said and i know your clad is down from my tree but we could belong to the same tribe , Arab samartians , vandals alanis even Visigoths if not Romans or even Greek , looking at myself in the mirror i see an Iranian a dolcefalic kinda Brutus, but as someone in another thread said it's almost impossible to say i' belong to this or to that people in time my haplogroup is close to Joan de Carvalho born in 1435 i don't know where probably in north of Portugal, so i'm not so bad i got already someone to call uncle in my tree and in my area of birth , i hope you will get there with passing of the time more and more people are doing full genome testing , lets learn more together

Táltos
04-29-2020, 02:50 PM
i been looking into what you said and i know your clad is down from my tree but we could belong to the same tribe , Arab samartians , vandals alanis even Visigoths if not Romans or even Greek , looking at myself in the mirror i see an Iranian a dolcefalic kinda Brutus, but as someone in another thread said it's almost impossible to say i' belong to this or to that people in time my haplogroup is close to Joan de Carvalho born in 1435 i don't know where probably in north of Portugal, so i'm not so bad i got already someone to call uncle in my tree and in my area of birth , i hope you will get there with passing of the time more and more people are doing full genome testing , lets learn more together

Your haplogroup will not determine your looks.

konian lusitanum
04-30-2020, 08:10 AM
maybe not but there is some resemblance between Portuguese and Iranians, so it come from somewhere despite of your affirmation, Atlantic westerners don't have any resemblance with Slavic people in big percentage just my point

Ruderico
04-30-2020, 08:23 AM
Looks are subjective, and bound to be shaped by a multitude of factors (health, diet, climate, etc), but when it comes to genetic ones it's inevitably going to be the consequence of a myriad of SNPs, most of which we probably aren't even aware of yet. Just look at how many impact something as trivial as hair or eye colour. Uniparental markers are hardly going to be very relevant in this

konian lusitanum
04-30-2020, 08:43 AM
so genes do not have any interaction about the looks of people ? well i don't see much difference between the looks of me of my father and all my brothers we look alike all of us , yes i got sisters with blue eyes , brother with blond hair and eyes all my brothers got haplogroup j1 as me , and we all got bald head as my father , ha ha ha

Ruderico
04-30-2020, 08:46 AM
so genes do not have any interaction about the looks of people ?

I just said it did, but (probably) not a mere uniparental marker

ShpataEMadhe
06-01-2020, 09:45 PM
Your haplogroup will not determine your looks.

Utter nonsense, y dna is the most important factor in determining a males "looks", small chance that a male can look more like his mother's side but usually it is fathers side

Pribislav
06-01-2020, 10:17 PM
Utter nonsense, y dna is the most important factor in determining a males "looks", small chance that a male can look more like his mother's side but usually it is fathers side

You clearly don't have any idea what you're talking about. Y-DNA determines gender, and very little beyond that.

Johnny ola
06-01-2020, 10:29 PM
Utter nonsense, y dna is the most important factor in determining a males "looks", small chance that a male can look more like his mother's side but usually it is fathers side

Its exactly the opposite.Autosomal plays the major role when it comes to looks.yDNA is just for the 'PRIDE'.

RCO
06-01-2020, 11:30 PM
Y-DNA is a terrific demographic factor. Migrations, invasions, languages, ethnicity, politics, statehood, wars, frontiers, religions, identities also can depend on manliness or manhood.

konian lusitanum
06-02-2020, 07:42 AM
very little beyond that ? i looked at my neighbor so many times and i did not find any resemblances with me but i look at my father and yes i see lots of things of him on me are you just looking at science ?

Ruderico
06-02-2020, 08:58 AM
Utter nonsense, y dna is the most important factor in determining a males "looks", small chance that a male can look more like his mother's side but usually it is fathers side

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You might want to say why it is "utter nonsense" and provide us with a very solid source that strongly supports a given haplogroup is such an "important factor in determining a males looks", and how different clades have different impacts in how a male looks.

Pribislav
06-02-2020, 09:28 AM
very little beyond that ? i looked at my neighbor so many times and i did not find any resemblances with me but i look at my father and yes i see lots of things of him on me are you just looking at science ?

That's because you inherited a half of your genome from your father and not from your neighbour.

Ruderico
06-02-2020, 09:33 AM
That's because you inherited half of your genome from your father and not from your neighbour.

You never know.. ;)

rzak
06-02-2020, 04:41 PM
(That's because you inherited half of your genome from your father and not from your neighbour)

You say this because you never were in a Portuguese village, where populations are extremely consanguineous and look alike. This in addition to the fact that Portuguese people are phenotypically distinctive. I understand that J1 individual will look like different.

DMXX
06-02-2020, 05:35 PM
Repeating the same argument several times without appraising what other members are telling you in unison is strange behaviour, to put it mildly.

The overwhelming majority of the genes, transcription sites, promoters, enhancers etc. which affect one's phenotype are located in the autosomes. Not the Y-chromosome. The Y-chromosome has few gene sites (the most important from a physical development perspective being SRY for sexual differentiation during the embryotic stage of development).

Ever wondered why many, many children look like near-perfect hybrids of their parents? That's the reason why.

I implore you to visit SNPedia (https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/SNPedia) and search for any trait you'd care to investigate (hair, eye or skin colour, nose shape, prognathism, height, hair texture). The absolute majority of them will reside either in the autosomal DNA (Chr pairs 1-22) or X-DNA.

I'm suspecting that you may be using Y-DNA as a correlative factor for physical appearance, which is a mechanistically indirect (and therefore weak) indicator for the reasons that I and others have mentioned.
Y-DNA R2a* me (pale generic Caucasoid guy) doesn't resemble my Y-DNA R2a* grandfather (Eurasian Kazakh-Hazara-Korean appearance), and neither of us resemble his brother (a blue-eyed, S. Slavic-resembling man). Yet, we all share approximately 25% of our DNA with one another.

J Man
06-02-2020, 05:43 PM
Utter nonsense, y dna is the most important factor in determining a males "looks", small chance that a male can look more like his mother's side but usually it is fathers side

Y-DNA has nothing to do with how you look physically other than making you genetically male. Autosomal DNA determines things like facial features, eye color, hair colour, etc.

And no there is more than a "small chance" that a male can resemble his mother's side physically.