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tolga1989
12-20-2013, 05:26 PM
Hi,

I am Tolga. I've recently ordered a 23andme kit and have already been tested by FTDNA. I sent my autosomal data to McDonald and tried different calculator on Gedmatch (my id is F232967). I've no known Jewish ancestry. I was born in Izmir/Smyrna, Turkey. My grandmother (mother of my father) is from Thessaloniki and before that from Egypt (according to tales of my grand-grandmother). My father's father is from Konya, Turkey. My mother's parents are both from Syria and before that from Jerusalem, but my grandmother is Circassian(Adyghe) from her father's side. I don't know how I supposed to interpret these results. I have similar results on the different calculators. I would like to hear your opinion on whether I might have a (Sephardic) Jewish ancestry.

My family originates from different places, like: Izmir(also my birthplace), Konya(Turkey), Iskenderon(Turkey), Antakya/Antioch(Turkey), Salonika(Greece), Cairo (Egypt), Aleppo(Syria), Damascus(Syria), Jerusalem (Israel)

McDonald's analysis of my autosomal DNA:

Most likely fit is 88.4% (+- 1.9%) Mideast (all Jewish) and 11.6% (+- 1.9%) S. Asia (various subcontinents)

The following are possible population sets and their fractions, most likely at the top

Sephardic= 0.896 N_India= 0.104 or
Sephardic= 0.874 Sindhi= 0.126 or
Sephardic= 0.907 S_India= 0.093 or
Sephardic= 0.858 Pathan= 0.142

A custom fit says

Sephardic 0.3718 Palestinian 0.1469 Turkish 0.4813 or
Russian 0.0651 Cypriot 0.8630 S_India 0.0719 or
Chuvash 0.0513 Cypriot 0.8746 N_India 0.0740 or
Russian 0.0579 Cypriot 0.8596 N_India 0.0825 or
Chuvash 0.0554 Cypriot 0.8809 S_India 0.0637 or
Adygei 0.2908 Sephardic 0.5006 Palestinian 0.2087 or
Chuvash 0.0527 Cypriot 0.8544 Sindhi 0.0930 or
Russian 0.0580 Cypriot 0.8380 Sindhi 0.1040 or
Adygei 0.3335 Jewish 0.3335 Palestinian 0.3330 or
Hungary 0.0788 Cypriot 0.8423 S_India 0.0789


OR even better fit

Poland 0.0435 Sephardic 0.3406 Palestinian 0.1691 Turkish 0.4468 or
Lithuania 0.0375 Sephardic 0.3468 Palestinian 0.1679 Turkish 0.4478 or
Russian 0.0804 Palestinian 0.0840 Cypriot 0.7718 S_India 0.0639 or
Russian 0.0744 Palestinian 0.0871 Cypriot 0.7652 N_India 0.0733 or
Belorus 0.0420 Sephardic 0.3421 Palestinian 0.1682 Turkish 0.4477 or
Hungary 0.0565 Sephardic 0.3262 Palestinian 0.1688 Turkish 0.4485 or
Romania 0.0795 Sephardic 0.3120 Palestinian 0.1716 Turkish 0.4369 or
Sicily 0.2430 Jewish 0.1155 Palestinian 0.1900 Turkish 0.4516 or
Germany 0.0478 Sephardic 0.3292 Palestinian 0.1713 Turkish 0.4517 or
Russian 0.0683 Egyptian 0.0871 Cypriot 0.7391 Pathan 0.1055 or
Russian 0.0774 Egyptian 0.0788 Cypriot 0.7526 Sindhi 0.0912 or
Adygei 0.2308 Sephardic 0.5305 Palestinian 0.1904 Pathan 0.0483

MDLP World-22 Oracle results:

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Cretan (derived) 7.71
2 Jew_Syria (derived) 9.22
3 Cypriot (derived) 10.22
4 Greek_Azov (derived) 10.28
5 Lebanese (derived) 11.8
6 Jew_Italia (derived) 12.02
7 Turk (derived) 12.35
8 Jew_Morocco (derived) 12.53
9 Jew_Francestrale (derived) 12.95
10 Jew_Tunisia (derived) 13
11 Ashkenazim (derived) 13.14
12 Jew_Romania (derived) 13.21
13 Sephardim (derived) 13.28
14 Jew_Algeria (derived) 13.45

Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Cyprian 8.5
2 Lebanese_Muslim 9.3
3 Syrian 11
4 Sephardic_Jewish 11.19
5 Ashkenazi 11.22
6 South_Italian 11.83
7 Turkish 12.18
8 Greek 13.25
9 Lebanese_Druze 14.17
10 Samaritan 14.66
11 Assyrian 14.67
12 Jordanian 14.7
13 Lebanese_Christian 14.96
14 Azeri_Jewish 15.28

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 60.3% Ashkenazi + 39.7% Georgian_Jewish @ 2.67
2 57% Ashkenazi + 43% Assyrian @ 2.84
3 58.1% Ashkenazi + 41.9% Azeri_Jewish @ 3.1
4 62.5% Ashkenazi + 37.5% Armenian @ 3.2
5 73.7% Lebanese_Muslim + 26.3% Bulgarian @ 3.31
Eurogenes k15 v2 EU oracle:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Cyprian 9.25
2 Lebanese_Muslim 9.45
3 Syrian 10.66
4 Ashkenazi 11.72
5 Turkish 11.92
6 Sephardic_Jewish 12.29
7 Assyrian 12.85
8 Samaritan 14.6
9 Lebanese_Christian 14.65
10 Jordanian 15
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 52.6% Ashkenazi + 47.4% Assyrian @ 4.44
2 76.6% Lebanese_Muslim + 23.4% Romanian @ 5.64
3 59.1% Ashkenazi + 40.9% Armenian @ 5.65
4 82.3% Lebanese_Muslim + 17.7% Hungarian @ 5.66
5 58.9% Assyrian + 41.1% Greek @ 5.71


Dodecad V3 Oracle results:

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 10.37
2 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 10.45
3 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 10.6
4 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 10.98
5 Georgia_Jews (Behar) 11.97
6 Lebanese (Behar) 12.36
7 Turkish (Dodecad) 12.49
8 Palestinian (HGDP) 13.45
9 Druze (HGDP) 13.56
10 Iranian_Jews (Behar) 13.78
11 Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) 13.85
12 Samaritians (Behar) 14.59
13 Iraq_Jews (Behar) 14.66
14 Kurd (Xing) 14.76
15 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 15.14


HarappaWorld Oracle results:

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 turk-aydin (hodoglugil) 9.21
2 ashkenazy-jew (behar) 10.06
3 sephardic-jew (behar) 10.28
4 turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) 10.61
5 turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) 11.31
6 cypriot (behar) 11.8
7 lebanese (behar) 11.87
8 turkish (harappa) 12.21
9 turk (behar) 12.24
10 ashkenazi (harappa) 12.6
11 armenian (harappa) 13.3
12 morocco-jew (behar) 13.36
13 lebanese-muslim (haber) 13.42
14 syrian (behar) 13.92
15 palestinian (harappa) 14.06
16 iraqi-arab (harappa) 14.92
17 azeri (harappa) 15.44
18 uzbekistan-jew (behar) 15.52
19 lebanese-druze (haber) 16.29
20 jordanian (behar) 16.5

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 61% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 39% uzbekistan-jew (behar) @ 2.16
2 62.2% morocco-jew (behar) + 37.8% kumyk (yunusbayev) @ 2.28
3 57.2% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 42.8% armenian (harappa) @ 2.46
4 55.1% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 44.9% turkish (harappa) @ 2.52
5 55.4% ashkenazi (harappa) + 44.6% uzbekistan-jew (behar) @ 2.61
6 51.4% ashkenazi (harappa) + 48.6% armenian (harappa) @ 2.7
7 68.6% sephardic-jew (behar) + 31.4% kumyk (yunusbayev) @ 2.83
8 54.4% turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) + 45.6% morocco-jew (behar) @ 2.84
9 64% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 36% kurd (harappa) @ 2.94
10 60.6% sephardic-jew (behar) + 39.4% azeri (harappa) @ 2.96

Mehrdad
12-20-2013, 05:56 PM
This just could be the proximity of each population in the area, considering you have family from Jerusalem. However the South Asian component is interesting to say the least.

AJL
12-20-2013, 06:11 PM
Mehrdad's explanation is quite likely correct, though you might be interested to know that Izmir was where the messianic claimant Shabtai Zvi was from. (He and most of his followers became Dönmeh.)

How many Relative Finder matches do you have and how many of them claim Jewish ancestry?

tolga1989
12-20-2013, 06:29 PM
Mehrdad's explanation is quite likely correct, though you might be interested to know that Izmir was where the messianic claimant Shabtai Zvi was from. (He and most of his followers became Dönmeh.)

How many Relative Finder matches do you have and how many of them claim Jewish ancestry?

Thanks for the answer. Yes, I know many Dönmehs from Izmir and I have contacted them. They also originates from Salonika, like my grandmother. They said that my grandmother's family might be Dönmeh/Sabbatean.

I didn't receive my 23andme results yet, still on 4th step.

tolga1989
12-20-2013, 06:34 PM
My dnatribes results:

10791080

mnd
12-20-2013, 11:40 PM
The only way to be reasonably certain of Jewish ancestry is if, when your Relative Finder matches come through, you find yourself sharing long segments with people of Jewish background.

In addition, though 23andMe is more geared towards detecting Ashkenazi ancestry, I think Sephardic Jews also show non-negligible “Ashkenazi” percentages in their Ancestry Compositions and elevated levels of segment sharing with Ashkenazi Jews in Countries of Ancestry (and consequently, Relative Finder). That might also be something to look out for.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if the appearance of Jewish populations in your ADMIXTURE runs was just a result of your cosmopolitan ancestry rather than an actual indication of Jewish ancestry (which I find unlikely for someone from an ethnic Turkish background). For example, my dad is Turkish too, though all his ancestry is from one place (he’s from here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paphos_district)). His HarappaWorld results look like this:

# Population (source) Distance
1 sephardic-jew (behar) 7.23
2 cypriot (behar) 8.68
3 ashkenazy-jew (behar) 9.02
4 morocco-jew (behar) 10.99
5 ashkenazi (harappa) 11.94
6 lebanese (behar) 12.47
7 turk-aydin (hodoglugil) 12.7
8 turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) 13.27
9 lebanese-muslim (haber) 14.06
10 turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) 14.19

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 76.7% morocco-jew (behar) + 23.3% abhkasian (yunusbayev) @ 2.32
2 83.8% sephardic-jew (behar) + 16.2% abhkasian (yunusbayev) @ 2.32
3 81% sephardic-jew (behar) + 19% north-ossetian (yunusbayev) @ 2.33
4 80.8% sephardic-jew (behar) + 19.2% adygei (hgdp) @ 2.33
5 81.2% sephardic-jew (behar) + 18.8% georgian (harappa) @ 2.38
6 80.3% sephardic-jew (behar) + 19.7% balkar (yunusbayev) @ 2.44
7 84.4% sephardic-jew (behar) + 15.6% georgian (behar) @ 2.56
8 58.5% lebanese-druze (haber) + 41.5% tuscan (hapmap) @ 2.59
9 58.7% lebanese-christian (haber) + 41.3% tuscan (hapmap) @ 2.6
10 77.5% morocco-jew (behar) + 22.5% georgian (behar) @ 2.61

Based on this alone, he might be mistaken for someone of Jewish background, but his very low number of Relative Finder matches and essentially negligible segment sharing with people of Jewish background clearly indicates that he doesn't have any significant Jewish ancestry.

tolga1989
12-21-2013, 07:25 AM
I am eager to see my 23andme results. I hope that I get it before Christmas.
Where is your father from, if I may ask?

I am not really from an ethnic Turkish background. My mother's family claims to be Arabic, their mother tongue is also Arabic (Syrian dialect). Modern Turkish ethnicity is a product of post-WW I politics of Turkish Republic. In Ottoman Empire, only Turkmens (nomadic people in Anatolia) had been called Turkish. After foundation of Turkish Republic, everbody from Anatolia called Turkish, even if they had an evident Kurdish, Arabic or converted Greek/Armenian ancestry. Modern Turkish ancestry is a melting pot of different assimilated Anatolian ethnic groups.

mnd
12-21-2013, 09:53 AM
I am eager to see my 23andme results. I hope that I get it before Christmas.
Where are your father from, if I may ask?
He is from Paphos, Cyprus.