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Palisto
08-23-2012, 09:39 AM
Here is a tree of haplogroup J2.
http://kurdishdna.blogspot.com/2012/08/haplogroup-j2-tree-str111.html
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Haplogroup J2b seems to be less diverse and younger than J2a.

DMXX
08-23-2012, 05:15 PM
Very good stuff Palisto. I have two questions:

1) How confident are you in the phylogenetic tree's general placing given the J2b individuals appear to be a subset of J2a?

2) Was there any sort of primary goal, or a quick look at what the picture presents when the raw data's put in?

It would be interesting to have some J2b samples from South-Central Asia and Iran to see where they lie relative to the Europeans, also whether they display the same sort of youth as seen here.

Palisto
08-24-2012, 01:59 AM
Very good stuff Palisto. I have two questions:

1) How confident are you in the phylogenetic tree's general placing given the J2b individuals appear to be a subset of J2a?

2) Was there any sort of primary goal, or a quick look at what the picture presents when the raw data's put in?


Thanks.
1.) Phylogeny based on STR data is nearly impossible. The only thing you can do is to find clusters; this is why you cannot find rooted trees in publications that are based on STR values. They show networks with STR data. Thus, I don't think that J2b is a subset of J2a. It would be interesting to test the haplogroup status of Ger-N89876 (N89876), he seems to be right in between J2a and J2b

2.) I noticed that some cluster annotations in various FTDNA projects are solely based on STR values without having crucial information about the SNPs. Then, I realized that a lot of SNPs are overlapping in STR trees and networks. So, predicting SNPs with STR haplotypes is a very risky approach, even at STR111. The goal was to see if some of the proposed "FTDNA clusters" are real or artificial.



It would be interesting to have some J2b samples from South-Central Asia and Iran to see where they lie relative to the Europeans, also whether they display the same sort of youth as seen here.

Can you give me some links to J2b samples from South-Central Asia and Iran with STR111 haplotypes. I would love to test those.

Palisto
10-25-2012, 07:31 PM
Very good stuff Palisto. I have two questions:

1) How confident are you in the phylogenetic tree's general placing given the J2b individuals appear to be a subset of J2a?

2) Was there any sort of primary goal, or a quick look at what the picture presents when the raw data's put in?

It would be interesting to have some J2b samples from South-Central Asia and Iran to see where they lie relative to the Europeans, also whether they display the same sort of youth as seen here.

I worked on it much more now and updated this STR111 J2 haplogroup tree.
The new tree is based on all individuals with haplogroup J2 and STR111 data from all FTDNA projects, a total of 223 individuals.
http://kurdishdna.blogspot.com/2012/10/haplogroup-j2-str111-tree.html

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The tree is solely based on STR111 data, so it is quiet astonishing to see that the STR clusters cut along the SNPs of the J2 haplogroup. FTDNA IDs are flanked by the country of origin (e.g. "Ger-" = Germany) and the known haplogroup (e.g. J2a4h2g). Haplogroup J2b (blue) seems to be less diverse and younger than J2a. The biggest cluster in this tree is Jewish (light green cluster).

newtoboard
06-18-2013, 05:37 PM
Is there anyway you can determine if J2b is older than J2a in South Asia?

DNADiver
05-13-2020, 07:57 PM
now the current situation proofs the against above claim