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lppt
06-30-2019, 09:24 AM
My haplogroup is YSC235 (negative for everything else after it).

This is my Y67 data

12 22 14 11 14-18 11 15 12 13 11 31 19 8-9 11 12 25 14 20 26 12-14-16-17 11 10 22-22 15 14 20 18 33-35 13 10 11 8 15-16 8 12 10 8 10 9 12 22-22 19 10 12 12 15 8 12 24 21 14 12 11 13 12 12 12 11

It seems that im a rare bird. Nevgen says im P58 with an unsupported subclade.

Im on ftdna j1 project (B278137) but im still in the ungrouped section.

My family surname is "Jorge". Jorge means farmer or earth worker. As far as i know we were always farmers. Since YSC235 is quite old, its safe to assume that my ancestor got here by the end of the neolithic and was a farmer?

Any ideas?

lppt
07-06-2019, 05:16 PM
The admin from J1 project has put me on J-Z27682 subclade finally! Sadly, nothing new.

RCO
07-07-2019, 12:22 AM
Any match at FTDNA ?

lppt
07-07-2019, 12:44 PM
Yes. At 12 STRs, two people with a GD of 1. One already dead (whos name is only Rocha) and another from São Miguel (island). At 25 with GD of 1 the same dead person as before. At 37 the same dead person but with a GD of 2. At 67 i got another dead person (whos name is António Rocha) with a GD of 3.

The earliest known ancestor from both dead persons is Manuel Lopes, birth around 1770, from Leiria, Portugal.

lppt
07-07-2019, 12:45 PM
Both dead persons have the same haplogroup YSC235. The guy from Sao Miguel only J-M267 and his name is Peter Santos.

levantino II
07-08-2019, 05:57 AM
There is also Perez from Dominican Republic (FTDNA #302848). He is interesting because he is confirmed as Z27682. I'm not shore if he has done BigY, but I believe he did because of the terminal SNP.

About your branch and it's presence in Portugal, I don't believe they were migrants from neolithic. I even don't believe that J1 hit the shores of Mediterranean before Early Bronze Age (or very very late neolithic) and leave the same shores before Middle Bronze age. For better conclusion you simply need more better analyzed members. There is some YSC0000235 from Yemen, but I would like to see his BigY. In any case Portugal cluster looks bit isolated

lppt
07-11-2019, 09:23 AM
Will I ever discover if my ancestor was a farmer from the middle east, an arab, a jew or maybe a phoenician?

lppt
07-19-2019, 01:14 AM
I've been searching. My ancestor was probably an ashkenazi jew. Why? My DYS388 as a value of 15 and YCAII the values 22-22. My surname is "Jorge". On FTDNA, ive got a GD of 3 with a dead guy with the surname "Rocha" and this guy has his EKA with the surname "Lopes". These 3 surnames can be jewish. Using the gedrosia k3 calculator on gedmatch, using 1 population approximation, the first one is ashkenazi jew with a score of 0.000000!

What do you guys think?

lppt
07-19-2019, 02:48 AM
Using other calculators, ashkenazi jew is never shown (oracle4). So, does it mean that if my ancestor was indeed jew it was long ago or does it mean that he probably was not jew?

RCO
07-19-2019, 02:50 AM
Follow your matches. Uma andorinha só não faz verão.

Ruderico
07-19-2019, 08:39 AM
I've been searching. My ancestor was probably an ashkenazi jew. Why? My DYS388 as a value of 15 and YCAII the values 22-22. My surname is "Jorge". On FTDNA, ive got a GD of 3 with a dead guy with the surname "Rocha" and this guy has his EKA with the surname "Lopes". These 3 surnames can be jewish. Using the gedrosia k3 calculator on gedmatch, using 1 population approximation, the first one is ashkenazi jew with a score of 0.000000!

What do you guys think?

I think you're very much confused friend. Firstly there are and were barely no Ashkenazi Jews in Portugal, they were all Sephardi (Sephardi means Spanish=Iberian).
Secondly unless a surname is originally Jewish such as "Ruah" the only way we can see a certain name is jewish is by studying its geneaology and finding a Jewish ancestor.
Thridly, even if you find a Jewish man with a surname "Peres" or "Silva" it doesn't mean any other "Peres" or "Silva" are of Jewish descent, just that particular line. This is because Jews adopted common surnames in order to fit in as Cristãos Novos, and obviously they'd be easily spotted if despite claiming to be Christian they had a very obvious Marrano name, so every surname could have been used by Jews, but none of them are proof of Jewish ancestry. Keep in mind surnames are a relatively recent thing

You keep trying to peg your J1 to Jews or Arabs but in yfull your clade is very old and widespread. China, Russia (Chechenskaya), and Latin America (obviously Iberian). It could have come since the Bronze Age up until the Middle Ages, but my guess is that it arrived during the Roman Empire or just as it colapsed




Using other calculators, ashkenazi jew is never shown (oracle4). So, does it mean that if my ancestor was indeed jew it was long ago or does it mean that he probably was not jew?
Oracle-4 doesn't mean anything, if you really want to take a look your best bet is getting Global25 and running your coordinates with nMonte3 models, like the ones we have on the Portuguese and Spanish sections. That said, even if your yDNA were of Jewish origin, it doesn't imply you'll be closer to them than anyone of us. My line is probably Scythian (Alanos) but I'm very much Basque-like, which makes me genetically more distant from most non-Iberians than any other Portuguese who's on G25 (and likewise closer to Basques than any of them)

Agamemnon
07-27-2019, 06:44 PM
You keep trying to peg your J1 to Jews or Arabs but in yfull your clade is very old and widespread. China, Russia (Chechenskaya), and Latin America (obviously Iberian). It could have come since the Bronze Age up until the Middle Ages, but my guess is that it arrived during the Roman Empire or just as it colapsed

If you're referring to Z27682, I'd like to say two things:

-I'm not too sure he belongs to this branch judging from his STR values.

-While the lineage itself probably arose in or near Mesopotamia (presumably arriving from the west/southern Levant before that with early East Semitic speakers), and despite its TMRCA estimates going back to the Late Chalcolithic-EBA, it seemingly owes its present-day distribution in large part to the early Muslim conquests and the spread of Islam. The Chinese individual for example is a Hui Muslim from Ningxia, in his case an Arabian origin makes the most sense. This might also explain the Chechen individual, and possibly those of Iberian descent in Latin America (Peru, Colombia, Dominican Republic).

Power77
07-27-2019, 06:55 PM
Those of Iberian descent in Latin America (Peru, Colombia, Dominican Republic).

I’d say those individuals might very well have Sephardic Jewish ancestry.

lppt
07-29-2019, 06:05 PM
My haplogroup being YSC235 doesnt it mean that it separated before the branch formation of the arabs as we know them today? Making it non arab?

Ruderico
07-29-2019, 06:18 PM
My haplogroup being YSC235 doesnt it mean that it separated before the branch formation of the arabs as we know them today? Making it non arab?

Honestly I don't know how accurate the TMRCA is considering there are only 4 individuals under the Z27682 branch, if you notice the 95% CI is very wide too. Even if it is pre-Arab, it's plausible its current distribution was caused by Arabs even if the clade's MRCA lived way before that