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rms2
12-26-2013, 04:37 PM
I have focused on my y-dna line so much that I am woefully ignorant when it comes to mtDNA. I know the basics and a bit about mtDNA haplogroup distribution in the very broadest sense, but little beyond that.

According to BritainsDNA's Chromo2 Complete test, I am U5a2c3a.

Here are my results (with my own little notes to keep me on the right track).

HVR1 (runs from nucleotide 16001 to nucleotide 16569)

16223T
16256T
16270T
16294T
16526A

HVR2 (runs from nucleotide 00001 to nucleotide 00574)

73G
263G

Coding Region (runs from nucleotide 00575 to nucleotide 16000)

750G
1438G
2706G
3197C
4769G
7028T
7960c
9477A
10709C
11465C
11467G
11719A
12308G
12372A
13617C
13880A
14793G

So, what do we know about U5a? U5a2? U5a2c, and so on?

Any help is appreciated.

GailT
12-26-2013, 08:19 PM
My summary of U5a2 is on the U5 project results page (link).

(http://www.familytreedna.com/public/u5b/default.aspx?section=results)There are more details at the link above, but here is the short summary:




U5a2 is found much less frequently than U5a1, but U5a2 also lived during a time of more rapid population expansion because it has 7 known daughter lineages, including five named subclades and two lineages not yet named. As in the case of U5a1, the majority of U5a2 samples (69%) are in its two largest subclades, U5a2a and U5a2b, and 37% of all U5a2 samples are in U5a2a1 which is dated to about 6000 ybp, suggesting that U5a2a1 lived in a Neolithic population that expanded very rapidly. U5a2 is found most frequently in northern and eastern Europe, including Russia. It is possible that U5a2 was present in multiple ice age refugia. Some of the less common subclades of U5a2 are found primarily in western Europe and may have been present in an ice age refuge in western Europe, while U5a2a and U5a2b are found more frequently in the northern regions of central and eastern Europe, and perhaps were present in an ice age refuge in the Balkans or Italy. From ancient remains we know that U5a2a was already present in Germany 8700 ybp. Another possibility is that U5a2a was present in a southern European ice age refuge, and initially expanded into central and northern Europe as the ice retreated, and then expanded into eastern Europe and Russia. The fact that U5a2 is found infrequently in southern Europe suggests that it was not present in early Neolithic farming communities that expanded from the Near East into Europe. If U5a2a1 was not present among early farmers, perhaps its high frequency in northern Europe today and its rapid expansion 6000 years ago might suggest that U5a2a1 was present in early Neolithic herding communities in eastern and northern Europe? More testing of ancient remains will be needed to better understand the migration history of U5a2.


This is somewhat speculative so I'd be interested in hearing other opinions.

vettor
12-26-2013, 08:57 PM
My summary of U5a2 is on the U5 project results page (link).

(http://www.familytreedna.com/public/u5b/default.aspx?section=results)There are more details at the link above, but here is the short summary:




This is somewhat speculative so I'd be interested in hearing other opinions.

TIM033 16256T 16270T 73G 263G 4769G 7028T 12308G U5a1
SAU034 16192 16230 16256 16270 73 263 4769G 7028T 12308G 14766T U5a
SAU004 16192 16256 16270 16291 73 152 263 4769G 7028T 12308G 14766T U5a1b1
SAU029 16192 16256 16270 16291 73 152 263 4769G 7028T 12308G 14766T U5a1b1
SAU026 16256 16270 16278 73 146 263 297 4769G 7028T 12308G 14766T U5a2
SAU017 16114A 16192 16256 16270 16294 73 252 263 4769G 7028T 12308G 14766T U5a2a1b1
SAU020 16114A 16192 16256 16270 16294 73 252 263 4769G 7028T 12308G 14766T U5a2a1b1
SAU021 16114A 16192 16256 16270 16294 73 252 263 4769G 7028T 12308G 14766T U5a2a1b1
SAU030 16114A 16192 16256 16270 16294 73 252 263 4769G 7028T 12308G 14766T U5a2a1b1
SAU032 16114A 16192 16256 16270 16294 73 252 263 4769G 7028T 12308G 14766T U5a2a1b1
SAU043 16114A 16192 16256 16270 16294 73 252 263 4769G 7028T 12308G 14766T U5a2a1b1
SAU049 16114 16192 16256 16270 16294 73 252 263 4769G 7028T 12308G 14766T U5a2a1b1
SAU050 16114 16192 16256 16270 16294 73 252 263 4769G 7028T 12308G 14766T U5a2a1b1
SAU051 16114 16192 16256 16270 16294 73 252 263 4769G 7028T 12308G 14766T U5a2a1b1
SAP011 16192 16230 16256 16270 73 263 4769G 7028T 12308G 14766T U5a
LES002 16183G 16192T 16256T 16271T 73G 200G 263G 4769G 7028T 12308G U5a2
LES040 16192T 16270T 73G 150T 263G 4769G 7028T 12308G U5b

towns> Lessinia Sappada Sauris Timau

These are from the 2013 study/papers of alpine veneto and trentino regions

Diana
12-26-2013, 09:51 PM
I have focused on my y-dna line so much that I am woefully ignorant when it comes to mtDNA. I know the basics and a bit about mtDNA haplogroup distribution in the very broadest sense, but little beyond that.

According to BritainsDNA's Chromo2 Complete test, I am U5a2c3a.

Here are my results (with my own little notes to keep me on the right track).


HVR1 (runs from nucleotide 16001 to nucleotide 16569)

16223T
16256T
16270T
16294T
16526A

HVR2 (runs from nucleotide 00001 to nucleotide 00574)

73G
263G

Coding Region (runs from nucleotide 00575 to nucleotide 16000)

750G
1438G
2706G
3197C
4769G
7028T
7960c
9477A
10709C
11465C
11467G
11719A
12308G
12372A
13617C
13880A
14793G

So, what do we know about U5a? U5a2? U5a2c, and so on?

Any help is appreciated.



I am like you when it comes to MtDNA! So different then Y-DNA, I need a crash course MtDNA for dummies!

GailT
12-26-2013, 10:28 PM
SAU034 16192 16230 16256 16270 73 263 4769G 7028T 12308G 14766T U5a

SAP011 16192 16230 16256 16270 73 263 4769G 7028T 12308G 14766T U5a

These are from the 2013 study/papers of alpine veneto and trentino regions

The U5a samples are intriguing, I wonder if they could be encouraged to do the full sequence on these samples.

Currently the only U5a* samples are DQ156212 from Spain and EF660950 from Italy, although EF660950 could be U5a2c with a back mutation at 16526. It would be very helpful to have more U5a* samples.

vettor
12-27-2013, 07:46 PM
The U5a samples are intriguing, I wonder if they could be encouraged to do the full sequence on these samples.

Currently the only U5a* samples are DQ156212 from Spain and EF660950 from Italy, although EF660950 could be U5a2c with a back mutation at 16526. It would be very helpful to have more U5a* samples.

maybe the answer is in one of these 2 related papers

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0056371

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0081704

GailT
12-27-2013, 09:47 PM
The Capocasa et al. paper did not sequence the full genome. I checked the results again, and they also did not sequence the full HVR1 region, and they missed 16526. So it is very likely that their U5a samples are U5a2.

vettor
12-27-2013, 11:02 PM
The Capocasa et al. paper did not sequence the full genome. I checked the results again, and they also did not sequence the full HVR1 region, and they missed 16526. So it is very likely that their U5a samples are U5a2.

i was told these people did the test or are a part of the alpine tests, maybe you can contact them as from what i read they have more info

http://laboratoriobagolini.it/?page_id=2517&lang=en

GailT
08-30-2015, 05:05 PM
I'm responding to the "In the news" thread conversation on U5a2a here.


That U5a2a is probably of Steppe origin. Although North Asian hunter gatherers also had U5a2a before the Bronze age

U5a2a is estimated to be about 12,000 years old and U5a2a1 about 6000 years old. There are 139 FMS samples for U5a2a and 125 or 90% of them are in its largest subclade U5a2a1. The remaining 14 samples are split among 3 unnamed subclades that are found in northern Europe, mostly Denmark. There is also an ancient U5a2a sample (partial CR results) from Germany (Hohlenstein-Stadel) dated to about 8700 years ago, and it might represent an extinct branch of U5a2a. So we know that U5a2a was in Europe during the Mesolithic. My guess is that U5a2a originated in southern Europe shortly after the end of the LGM, expanded into northern Europe in the Mesolithic, and that U5a2a1 originated in eastern Europe, part of the eastward expansion of Mesolithic U5 hunter-gatherers. U5a2a1 is found today at greatest frequency in northern Europe and Russia so I don't think it was primarily from the Steppe expansion, rather, there might be continuity of U5a2a1 in northeastern Europe, and the age of U5a2a1 might be consistent with an origin in the Funnelbeaker culture.

The ancient sample from China is interesting - it has only 1 of the 2 defining U5a2a1 mutations, but it is also missing several other expected mutations, so the results might be incomplete. There is also a modern U5a2a1 sample from the Koryak in far eastern Russia.


Which North Asian hunter-gatherer groups had U5a2a among them?

Bramanti et al. identified the Hohlenstein-Stadel sample as Beuronien.

J Man
08-30-2015, 08:48 PM
I take it then that the U5b2 sample from the Hohlenstein-Stadel site from the Bramanti paper is also Beuronien.

siamak
12-18-2015, 04:14 PM
Through Genographic project (Geno 2.0) , I found out that I am U5a2... I am Persian/Iranian. What I found is that U5a is linked to R1a and U5b is linked to R1b, so I think U5a came to Iran as the result of expansion of Indo-European from the steppes some times 3000BC.

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_U5_mtDNA.shtml

Kale
12-18-2015, 06:54 PM
More or less U5b is from paleolithic West Europe, and U5a from paleolithic East Europe. Your linkage of those two to R1a/b is outdated, the correlation only came in the last few thousand years. In the neolithic U5b was all over the place in Europe but there was no R1b. U5a and R1a probably met up in mesolithic Eastern Europe, with U5a getting swept beyond Europe in bronze age expansions...but I think R as a whole has more to do with U4 and or U2.

GailT
12-18-2015, 11:53 PM
Through Genographic project (Geno 2.0) , I found out that I am U5a2... I am Persian/Iranian.


You can try uploading your Geno 2.0 results to the mthap tool (link (http://dna.jameslick.com/mthap-new/)) to see if a more specific subclade of U5a2 can be identified, Another option is to test the full mtDNA sequence at FTDNA. They currently have a sale running and coupons available too.

siamak
12-21-2015, 02:44 AM
You can try uploading your Geno 2.0 results to the mthap tool (link (http://dna.jameslick.com/mthap-new/)) to see if a more specific subclade of U5a2 can be identified, Another option is to test the full mtDNA sequence at FTDNA. They currently have a sale running and coupons available too.

I just uploaded my result and it shows a list of U5a2 matches...The first match is U5a2(T16362C) as follows, but there are some other matches:

1) U5a2(T16362C)

Defining Markers for haplogroup U5a2(T16362C):
HVR2: 73G 263G
CR: 750G 1438G 2706G 3197C 4769G 7028T 8860G 9477A 11467G 11719A 12308G 12372A 13617C 14766T 14793G 15326G
HVR1: 16192T 16256T 16270T 16362C 16526A

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup U5a2(T16362C) (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 11467G 12308G 12372A ⇨ U ⇨ 16192T 16270T ⇨ U5 ⇨ 3197C 9477A 13617C ⇨ U5a'b ⇨ 14793G 16256T ⇨ U5a ⇨ 16526A ⇨ U5a2 ⇨ 16362C ⇨ U5a2(T16362C) ⇨ 4135C 9932A 13287T 14560A 16209C

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(11): 3197C 9477A 11467G 12308G 12372A 13617C 14793G 16192T 16270T 16362C 16526A
Extras(5): 4135C 9932A 13287T 14560A 16209C
Untested(12): 73 263 750 1438 2706 4769 7028 8860 11719 14766 15326 16256


These are some other matches but they seem to be identical..

Any help would be appreciated..

GailT
12-21-2015, 07:58 PM
Your extra mutations do not seem to fit with any of the known subclades of U5a2, and it is possible that you form a new branch in the tree below U5a2. Have you considered testing the full mtDNA sequence? FTDNA is offering a sale on the test. U5a2 is estimated to be about 20,000 years old, so if your results could identify new ancient diversity in this group.

Thanks,
Gail


I just uploaded my result and it shows a list of U5a2 matches...The first match is U5a2(T16362C) as follows, but there are some other matches:

1) U5a2(T16362C)

siamak
12-22-2015, 12:45 AM
Your extra mutations do not seem to fit with any of the known subclades of U5a2, and it is possible that you form a new branch in the tree below U5a2. Have you considered testing the full mtDNA sequence? FTDNA is offering a sale on the test. U5a2 is estimated to be about 20,000 years old, so if your results could identify new ancient diversity in this group.

Thanks,
Gail



Thanks Gail,

I am not very surprised about what you said, because not many people from Iran have been tested for their DNA or mtDNA. I may consider the test that you mentioned in the near future. I will post it here once I get the result.
BTW, My guess is that U5a2 shouldn't be very old in Iran and most likely came to Iran through migration of Indo-European which brought Persian language and other Iranic languages to the region.

All the best,

GailT
12-22-2015, 05:05 AM
BTW, My guess is that U5a2 shouldn't be very old in Iran and most likely came to Iran through migration of Indo-European which brought Persian language and other Iranic languages to the region.

All the best,

I think we are pretty confident that some of the younger sublcades of U5a1 and U5a2 spread with Indo-European migrations. These would include several subclades of U5a1, especially U5a1a1, and possibly U5a2a1 and U5a2b which expanded rapidly in diversity around 6000 years ago. These subclades tend to be found at higher frequency in modern populations and they represent a large fraction of all U5a samples. However, some subclades of U5a1 and U5a2 are extremely rare, sometimes only represented by single sample. Given that these subclades originated perhaps around 15,000 years ago, it's difficult to be certain of their origins and history, but the very rare subclades of U5a1 and U5a2 are found most often from Italy to central and northern Europe (that could be sample bias - we have many more samples from that region), so it is really interesting and helpful to find new branches outside of Europe.

The other rare subclades of U5a2 are Group G with five samples from France, Denmark, Moldova and Romania; Group H with five samples from England, Ireland, Norway and Sweden, and Group I with one sample from Italy. A person who just tested at FTDNA has submitted their results to GenBank and forms another new branch of U5a2 that I'm calling U5a2 Group J, defined by the mutations T195C!, C514T, G1888A. The only other sample in Group J is the Motala9 ancient sample Sweden dated at about 7700 years ago. This person has Italian maternal ancestry and is not a close match to the Motala9 sample.

Titus Valerius
12-23-2015, 06:31 PM
Hi All! My son is U5a2b, but he has no matches either in HVR1-HVR2 or in Coding Regions. His earliest known ancestor of maternal line was from Reggio Emilia (ITA) ca. 1800