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View Full Version : Q-M242 ---> Q-Y2232 How do I understand this?



jeffrey_lane
07-03-2019, 02:23 PM
Folks,
I am hoping for a little context from the community, please.


At FamilyTreeDNA I complete a Y-DNA67 test - and received a Q-M242 haplogroup. No surprise but very interesting.
At the urging of the FTDNA advertisements on the site I tested using their Q-Backbone - SNP Pack and found that my haplogroup moved down to Q-Y2232 subclade(?).


I guess what I'm not understanding is what is the "time before present" associated with each of these branches? I mean, is there a way to understand the relative dates of these differentiation?

Is there such a thing as a tree diagram that shows relative or absolute years?

Like everyone I suppose, I'm wondering in about what era or group or geography might be known by understanding these sub-markers.

If I am way off here understanding how things work, I apologize. But please refer me to where I can best understand.

Grateful in advance - -Jeff

jeffrey_lane
07-03-2019, 02:24 PM
Folks,
I am hoping for a little context from the community, please.


At FamilyTreeDNA I complete a Y-DNA67 test - and received a Q-M242 haplogroup. No surprise but very interesting.
At the urging of the FTDNA advertisements on the site I tested using their Q-Backbone - SNP Pack and found that my haplogroup moved down to Q-Y2232 subclade(?).


I guess what I'm not understanding is what is the "time before present" associated with each of these branches? I mean, is there a way to understand the relative dates of these differentiation?

Is there such a thing as a tree diagram that shows relative or absolute years?

Like everyone I suppose, I'm wondering in about what era or group or geography might be known by understanding these sub-markers.

If I am way off here understanding how things work, I apologize. But please refer me to where I can best understand.

Grateful in advance - -Jeff

ALSO - Please help me understand why I should pay for the "Big-Y" test.
-j

Kulin
07-03-2019, 05:20 PM
The Q tree (https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q/) at yfull may help you. I'm not very knowledgeable on the haplogroup itself, but it should be under a different name in the given tree. The user, aaronbee2010 (https://anthrogenica.com/member.php?12472-aaronbee2010) is very knowledgeable about haplogroups and he might know. The dates of differentiation indicate when the clades/subclades separated from the parent branches due to mutations.


...

aaronbee2010
07-05-2019, 12:32 AM
Folks,
I am hoping for a little context from the community, please.


At FamilyTreeDNA I complete a Y-DNA67 test - and received a Q-M242 haplogroup. No surprise but very interesting.
At the urging of the FTDNA advertisements on the site I tested using their Q-Backbone - SNP Pack and found that my haplogroup moved down to Q-Y2232 subclade(?).


I guess what I'm not understanding is what is the "time before present" associated with each of these branches? I mean, is there a way to understand the relative dates of these differentiation?

Is there such a thing as a tree diagram that shows relative or absolute years?

Like everyone I suppose, I'm wondering in about what era or group or geography might be known by understanding these sub-markers.

If I am way off here understanding how things work, I apologize. But please refer me to where I can best understand.

Grateful in advance - -Jeff

This is your subclade on YFull: https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-Y2200/. In this case, Y2232 and Y2200 are phylogenetically equivalent (they come under the same subclade).

The time before present means the time before 1950. To give an example, the most recent common ancestor of all Q-Y2200 men on YFull is estimated to have lived around 1550 ybp, in other words, 1550 years before 1950, or 400 AD.

You can apply this same principle to the subclades underneath Y2200. Seems like a relatively recent subclade, would it be safe to say 400 AD is recent enough for the majority of men under this subclade to be Ashkenazim? Apologies for my ignorance here, I'm not knowledgeable when it comes to Jewish history.


ALSO - Please help me understand why I should pay for the "Big-Y" test.
-j

Put bluntly, you get a lot more value for money than SNP packs ($93 for YSEQ's Q1b-L295 panel or $119 for FTDNA's Q-L245 panel, you've already tested with FTDNA so shipping wouldn't be applicable here). FTDNA's Big Y700 is normally $649 however offers for $499 occur throughout the year (your upgrade cost will be a bit lower, but I don't know how much). You get free analysis for every SNP FTDNA are aware of (~150'000 SNPs I think) and also free analysis for 700 STRs (including the standard 111 STRs you may be familiar with), and you're added to their haplotree - your results may even result in a new branch of their haplotree being formed.

Your results can also be continuously updated over time so your results remain valid without needing a retest when new SNPs near you are available for testing, whereas with a SNP panel, you would need to test for these new SNPs seperately. You're also analysed for novel SNPs, which have not yet been discovered, some of which are unique to you and your close patrilineal relatives.

Another alternative is FGC's Y Elite service, which requires a seperate analysis service, but is only $380 with the FGCAG18 coupon code and is inclusive of shipping. You can ask their support via email if you wish to have slow shipping for $25 less (they offered this to me), which brings the total to just $355! YFull analysis is $49 and basically does everything FTDNA does. While you need to test with FTDNA to join their exclusive matching database, you also benefit from this with STR tests, which I presume you've already done, so this wouldn't be much of an advantage for you.

By comparison, FTDNA's Y111 is $359 (although I don't know what your upgrade price will be) and their Q-L245 SNP panel is $119, which brings you to a total of $478, which is very close to FTDNA's $499 offer price, and actually a lot more than the $404 total price of FGC + YFull. You get so much more SNP's tested for (including SNP's yet to be discovered), STR's tested for and you don't have to worry about new SNPs being found, as you can just be reanalysed for them with your existing data for free with YFull.

If price is an issue for you, save up as slowly as you wish, it will be a much better option in the long run than SNP panel tests! These sequencing tests are only getting cheaper ;)

jonahst
07-05-2019, 01:36 AM
Hi Jeff, there are a bunch of us Ashkenazi Q members on the forum :)

Check out this thread for some info on our subclade: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?11166-Haplogroup-Q-M378-(Q1b1a)-Info

This article might help a little: https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_Q_Y-DNA.shtml#Q1b1

And this study has some great information: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5333174/

jeffrey_lane
07-07-2019, 09:46 PM
Excellent. Thanks. Will do!

jeffrey_lane
08-05-2019, 01:40 AM
Just as an update --- I attended the IAJGS conference in Cleveland and got a little deeper understanding of all this ... also I got a good price at the conference for upgrade to Big-Y test ... should have my results back in a few weeks, they say. I'm sure at that point I'll be totally confused! Let the fun begin.

jeffrey_lane
08-05-2019, 01:44 AM
Just as an update --- I attended the IAJGS conference in Cleveland and got a little deeper understanding of all this ... also I got a good price at the conference for upgrade to Big-Y test ... should have my results back in a few weeks, they say. I'm sure at that point I'll be totally confused! Let the fun begin.

They also create this neat "block diagram" with the Big-Y results which I hope to be able to undersatnd eventually. But In the couple of sessions I was in where the block diagram was used for discussion I finally got a sense of how this is all the intersection of anthropology and history and genetics.