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Lusitano
07-05-2019, 10:14 PM
Quero lançar-vos um desafio com esta thread para agitar um pouco mais a nossa secção e torná-la ainda mais apelativa para todos :P Que tal tentarmos criar entre nós, Portugueses e Lusodescendentes, calculadoras para correr as nossas coordenadas G25 no nMonte? Penso que seria interessante tentarmos obter o melhor fit possível e explorar vários modelos com as centenas de samples disponíveis.

No Gedmatch uma das calculadoras que normalmente parece ser do agrado dos membros Portugueses é o K13 do Eurogenes. Para começar propunha que críassemos uma calculadora com 13 componentes inspirada na mesma que servirá de piloto para esta thread.

As componentes:


North Atlantic
Baltic
West Med
West Asian
East Med
Red_Sea
South Asian
East Asian
Siberian
Amerindian
Oceanian
Northeast African
Sub Saharan


O objectivo agora será debater entre nós quais samples devemos seleccionar para cada componente. Lembrem-se que o objectivo é tentar selecionar samples que possam dar o melhor fit possível a coordenadas G25 Portuguesas (por exemplo, seleccionar samples de Bascos Espanhóis em detrimento de Bascos Franceses). Pode ser apenas uma sample por cada componente, mais que uma sample por cada componente ou a média de uma população. Por exemplo, para a componente North Atlantic podiamos escolher uma sample de um Basco ou seleccionar três samples de Bascos ou ainda usar apenas a média do País Basco.

Se gostarem da ideia da thread, sugiro que primeiramente acordemos entre nós se vamos usar samples modernas ou ancestrais, escaladas ou não escaladas para a criação desta primeira calculadora. Fico à espera das vossas sugestões :)

Lusitano
07-06-2019, 03:00 PM
Estou a pensar em usar populações modernas, médias mais concretamente.

Para a primeira componente, North Atlantic, estou a pensar englobar a média dos Bascos com a média das Órcades ou da Irlanda.

Baltic - média da Lituânia com a do Leste da Finlândia.

West Med - média da Sardenha.

West Asian - média da Abecásia e Geórgia.

East Med - média dos Libaneses Drusos (mas não tenho a certeza se será a mais indicada).

South Asian - não sei qual usar ainda.

East Asian - Vietnamitas?

Siberian - não faço ideia, nunca percebi muito bem a dirença entre East Asian e Siberian.

Amerindian - penso que no caso dos Portugueses seria interessante utilizar a média de uma população ameríndia da América do Sul em detrimento da América do Norte.

Oceanian - indígenas da Papua-Nova Guiné.

Northeast African - média Etíope.

Sub Saharan - outra componente que seria interessante usar a média de algumas colónias do ultramar (Guiné-Bissau, Angola e Moçambique) mas não sei é possível ou se as mesmas estão disponíveis.

Gil Vicente
07-06-2019, 06:46 PM
Onde podemos arranjar esses dados?

Lusitano
07-06-2019, 06:49 PM
Onde podemos arranjar esses dados?

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/02/unleash-power-global-25-test-drive.html

Aqui podes descarregar o datasheet Global 25 escalado ou não escalado de todas as samples individuais do David bem como o datasheet da média das populações modernas.

Gil Vicente
07-06-2019, 07:02 PM
Na minha opinião faria sentido isolar os Bascos, que tal como os Sardenhos são populações isoladas e deveriam ter so seu próprio componente. Os componentes até se poderiam chamar Basque e Sardinian (em vez de West Med). O North Atlantic poderiam ser britânicos ou holandeses. Além disso faria sentido uma referência norte africana.

Lusitano
07-06-2019, 07:10 PM
Na minha opinião faria sentido isolar os Bascos, que tal como os Sardenhos são populações isoladas e deveriam ter so seu próprio componente. Os componentes até se poderiam chamar Basque e Sardinian (em vez de West Med). O North Atlantic poderiam ser britânicos ou holandeses. Além disso faria sentido uma referência norte africana.

Isso já seria então mais parecido com um Eurogenes K15. A componente North Sea que são os tais Escoceses e Holandeses estaria separada e passaríamos a ter uma componente de Atlantid com apenas samples do País Basco.

Poderiamos substituir o Northeast African das samples Etíopes e meter então uma componente North African baseada em médias de Marroquinos ou Tunisínos, tenho de ver quais deles são os Berberes mais nativos e com menor mistura de Árabes e Levantinos.

Gil Vicente
07-06-2019, 07:18 PM
Isso já seria então mais parecido com um Eurogenes K15. A componente North Sea que são os tais Escoceses e Holandeses estaria separada e passaríamos a ter uma componente de Atlantid com apenas samples do País Basco.

Poderiamos substituir o Northeast African das samples Etíopes e meter então uma componente North African baseada em médias de Marroquinos ou Tunisínos, tenho de ver quais deles são os Berberes mais nativos e com menor mistura de Árabes e Levantinos.

Podiamos sempre substituir esses componentes a mais por componentes que nenhum de nos vai ter, como Amerindian ou East Asian e ficava K13 na mesma.

Lusitano
07-06-2019, 07:57 PM
,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Atlantic:Basque_Spain,0.1319083,0.1504111,0.058286 2,0.0090081,0.0575834,0.0001239,-0.0033162,0.0004102,0.0313603,0.0455997,-0.0045288,0.0116063,-0.0227781,-0.0187627,0.0179452,0.0037271,-0.0058094,0.0027731,-0.0018156,-6.96e-05,0.0087901,0.0024868,-0.0068883,-0.0090371,0.0022619
Atlantic:Basque_French,0.128051,0.1520246,0.055172 7,0.0128231,0.0564104,0.0025099,-0.00141,0.0033229,0.0305968,0.0412036,-0.0092724,0.0103408,-0.0209761,-0.0140237,0.0132192,-0.0019359,-0.0119173,0.0030278,-0.0007165,-0.0044144,0.010157,0.0024855,-0.0086397,-0.0091698,7.18e-05
North_Sea:Orcadian,0.1306689,0.1342528,0.0629793,0 .04845,0.0387149,0.0175423,0.001786,0.0039229,0.00 50312,0.001786,-0.0068367,0.0048108,-0.0119078,-0.0108308,0.0223531,0.0030364,-0.0123864,0.0034712,0.0026774,0.0003001,0.0049539, 0.0022504,-0.0021567,0.0100374,-0.0005988
North_Sea:Norwegian,0.1338234,0.1279567,0.0679357, 0.0534334,0.0386443,0.0210366,0.0041964,0.0062964, 0.0057267,0.0003906,-0.0037349,0.0036823,-0.007518,-0.011698,0.0210754,0.0093949,-0.0054203,0.0026061,0.0006823,0.0007503,0.005633,0 .0055643,0.0042784,0.0177304,0.0010947
Baltic:Finnish_East,0.1265711,0.0754538,0.0952229, 0.0812991,0.0279127,0.0239846,0.0090243,0.0163608, 0.0052153,-0.0301419,0.0047905,-0.008887,0.0185082,0.005725,0.0008008,-0.0028109,-0.0050329,-0.0003168,-0.0020741,0.0054275,0.0088094,0.0012738,0.0022678, 0.0049162,0.0044066
Baltic:Lithuanian,0.1371568,0.127703,0.0846638,0.0 816382,0.0467778,0.0300505,0.009518,0.0169608,0.00 20453,-0.028019,-0.0071045,-0.0112402,0.0237112,0.0334422,-0.0093308,-0.0002983,-0.0041395,-0.001457,0.0004712,0.0034078,-0.0032132,-0.0038332,0.0104758,-0.0098205,-8.97e-05
West_Med:Sardinian,0.1206524,0.1679686,0.0276806,-0.0515508,0.0603188,-0.0224786,-0.003478,0.004292,0.0427048,0.0798558,-0.0020784,0.0158856,-0.0270266,-0.0131842,-0.0132192,-0.004614,0.0120476,-0.0013176,0.0017596,-0.012931,-0.0050908,-0.0042044,-0.0097122,-0.021087,0.0008382
West_Asian:Abkhazian,0.1089858,0.1152626,-0.0468571,-0.0399712,-0.039892,-0.0064146,0.01131,-0.0063169,-0.0616896,-0.0225286,-0.0023951,0.0092729,-0.0233769,0.0038362,0.0027654,-0.0233524,0.0111314,-0.005226,-0.011187,0.0195874,0.0137569,0.0027822,0.0033278,-0.0084799,-0.0015267
East_Med:Druze,0.0841153,0.1404478,-0.0496667,-0.070091,-0.0156642,-0.0251838,-0.0024205,-0.0053304,-0.0023112,0.0075992,0.0051477,-0.0030274,0.009083,0.0020232,-0.0068675,0.0061655,-0.0020861,0.0008361,0.0024761,-0.000913,-0.0013225,0.0019414,0.0002465,0.0025182,-0.0005866
East_Med:Cypriot,0.0997375,0.146744,-0.0378534,-0.0702525,-0.0070011,-0.0242986,0.001645,-0.0047594,0.0029656,0.0138728,0.0044454,-0.0001499,0.0025459,0.0018234,-0.0086014,0.0008947,0.0023631,0.0009978,0.0022469,-0.0012506,-0.0024489,0.0011438,-0.0027115,0.0017774,-0.0020656
South_Asian:Chamar,0.0379408,-0.0964753,-0.1691387,0.1266708,-0.0716543,0.06619,-0.0032508,0.0122685,0.0593118,0.0382392,-0.0051425,-0.0011238,0.0014867,0.0044727,-0.0095005,-0.0126843,0.0076275,-0.0013302,-0.0039173,0.0065032,0.0021628,0.0059148,0.00076,0. 0028717,-0.0064067
East_Asian:Vietnamese,0.017785,-0.4347735,-0.0384192,-0.057817,0.1141366,0.056371,-0.0013806,-0.0092881,-0.0165409,-0.0097496,0.0022124,-0.0012176,0.0021555,-0.0063478,-0.0015436,-0.0001989,0.000212,0.0008235,-0.0041323,-0.0082854,0.0089529,0.0064918,0.0120935,9.02e-05,0.003353
Siberian:Evens,0.0421147,-0.4319387,0.1399117,-0.015827,-0.138795,-0.0819007,0.0287493,0.036691,0.0328603,0.0261203,0 .0556993,0.007843,-0.0146187,0.0089913,-0.0159697,-0.011049,0.0022597,0.0133867,0.0288267,0.0127147,0 .050411,-0.045298,0.0072717,0.0127327,0.0190403
Amerindian:Karitiana,0.0588087,-0.320061,0.1183532,0.1083675,-0.1136622,-0.0136192,-0.3230612,-0.382484,-0.0153735,-0.017343,0.0009473,-0.0026975,-0.0016352,0.0273182,-0.0045692,0.0044197,0.0110175,0.002597,0.0001047,-0.0003543,-0.0055318,0.010902,-0.005546,-0.0025303,-0.0067858
Oceanian:Papuan,-0.0459844,-0.2410866,-0.2637584,0.3092414,0.2069308,-0.509589,-0.001974,0.0070152,-0.041273,-0.0119546,-0.018902,0.000869,0.0013974,-0.00311,0.0001628,-0.0003186,-0.0021906,-0.0018498,-0.001081,-0.0015256,0.0023458,0.0018052,0.0012324,0.0018314, 0.0016048
Sub_Saharan:Ethiopian,-0.5256728,0.0489145,-0.0071653,-0.0124893,-0.0007693,-0.0077625,0.0057967,-0.0019615,0.0953762,-0.1010805,-0.0201362,0.017984,-0.0375615,-0.0020873,0.0160377,-0.020463,0.0244687,0.0021115,0.0144133,-0.0176543,-0.0008735,0.0032767,-0.0057925,-0.0032133,0.004271
Sub_Saharan:Yoruba,-0.6300625,0.0625011,0.022113,0.0167079,0.0005035,0 .0124741,-0.044417,0.0477673,-0.0488813,0.0327694,0.0046205,0.0007904,0.0230561, 0.0009509,0.0125232,-0.0096067,0.0070763,0.0004491,0.006022,-0.00299,0.0015542,0.0023156,-0.0017592,-0.0004711,-0.0004246
Red_Sea:Bedouin,0.041925,0.1439232,-0.0598156,-0.1169808,-0.0093179,-0.0480622,-0.0141008,-0.0087432,0.05154,-0.0052038,0.0158689,-0.0305729,0.0629496,0.004855,0.0043959,0.0288529,-0.0199706,0.00366,-0.0040153,0.029,0.0109668,0.0152299,-0.0039166,0.0071025,-0.0083092
Red_Sea:Yemenite_Jew,0.051383,0.1447854,-0.0632486,-0.114066,-0.0118263,-0.0466941,-0.0134963,-0.0088677,0.0489689,-0.006274,0.0113209,-0.0266121,0.0539851,0.0032439,0.0035287,0.0171607,-0.0245497,0.003475,0.0064106,0.0249583,0.012888,0. 0159867,-0.0070954,0.0046479,-0.0068941
North_African:Moroccan_North,-0.0299735,0.1373221,-0.0030378,-0.0673993,0.0280564,-0.0319174,-0.0244542,0.0050512,0.0609822,0.0327317,0.0059091,-0.0065526,0.0185908,-0.0147102,0.0151403,-0.0105629,0.0012604,-0.0179828,-0.040747,0.0092961,-0.0121937,-0.0346297,0.0214382,-0.0055763,0.0043974
North_African:Mozabite,-0.0649782,0.135551,-0.0032793,-0.0717622,0.0260249,-0.0328364,-0.0260656,0.0108257,0.0617306,0.0303463,0.0065097,-0.006366,0.021795,-0.0165685,0.0163159,-0.016176,-0.0027097,-0.0219282,-0.0435571,0.0082757,-0.0146263,-0.0367947,0.0246817,-0.0042277,0.0056594


Até agora está assim com 14 componentes baseadas em samples modernas. O que acham que pode ser melhorado ou que samples devem ser adicionadas\substituídas? Testem para ver se vos dá um fit decente.


Coordenadas escaladas com penalização 0:

[1] "distance%=1.7711"

Lusitano

Atlantic,45
North_Sea,12
West_Med,11.4
North_African,11
East_Med,8.4
Baltic,7.4
West_Asian,4.4
Oceanian,0.2
Siberian,0.2

Gil Vicente
07-06-2019, 08:10 PM
[1] "distance%=1.5399"

Gil_Vicente

Atlantic,40.8
North_Sea,29.2
East_Med,13.6
West_Med,9.4
North_African,4.2
Sub_Saharan,2
Oceanian,0.6
West_Asian,0.2

Lusitano
07-06-2019, 08:18 PM
[1] "distance%=1.5399"

Gil_Vicente

Atlantic,40.8
North_Sea,29.2
East_Med,13.6
West_Med,9.4
North_African,4.2
Sub_Saharan,2
Oceanian,0.6
West_Asian,0.2

Um fit de 1.5 não é mau de todo mas acho que a sample das Órcades poderá estar a "roubar" um pouco do Atlantic por ela própria ter algumas componentes idênticas à dos Bascos.

Se eu remover a sample dos Escoceses das Órcades da componente North Sea e adicioná-la à componente Atlantic e adicionar uma sample de Suecos juntamente com Noruegueses no North Sea este seria o teu resultado:

[1] "distance%=1.5399"

Gil_Vicente

Atlantic,70
East_Med,13.6
West_Med,9.4
North_African,4.2
Sub_Saharan,2
Oceanian,0.6
West_Asian,0.2


E o meu:

[1] "distance%=1.7712"

Viriato

Atlantic,56.8
West_Med,11.8
North_African,11
East_Med,8.2
Baltic,7.4
West_Asian,4.4
Oceanian,0.2
Siberian,0.2

O North Sea desaparece, ou seja, estamos a ir buscar o North Sea todo à sample das Órcades e nada das Escandinavas na run anterior.

Gil Vicente
07-06-2019, 08:20 PM
Um fit de 1.5 não é mau de todo mas acho que a sample das Órcades poderá estar a "roubar" um pouco do Atlantid por ela própria ter algumas componentes idênticas à dos Bascos.

Pois, não sei o que alterar para melhorar o fit.

Ruderico
07-06-2019, 09:12 PM
O que eu aconselho para poderem fazer comparações melhores é fazer uma média das referências de cada componente, em vez de usarem duas ou três diferentes. Se a fit piorar não se admirem, mas a comparação entre resultados passa a ser mais correcta. Ethiopian para SSA não me parece boa escolha, eles só o são parcialmente

Edit: E coordenadas escaladas fazem-me muita comichão, especialmente com referências modernas

Lusitano
07-06-2019, 09:40 PM
O que eu aconselho para poderem fazer comparações melhores é fazer uma média das referências de cada componente, em vez de usarem duas ou três diferentes. Se a fit piorar não se admirem, mas a comparação entre resultados passa a ser mais correcta. Ethiopian para SSA não me parece boa escolha, eles só o são parcialmente

Edit: E coordenadas escaladas fazem-me muita comichão, especialmente com referências modernas

Eu pensava que o nMonte fazia a média automáticamente.

Ruderico
07-06-2019, 09:52 PM
Não, ele lê todas e escolhe as melhores

Lusitano
07-06-2019, 10:00 PM
Não, ele lê todas e escolhe as melhores

Usas o Excel para fazer as médias?

Ruderico
07-06-2019, 11:25 PM
Sim, só é chato reformatar as coordenadas do excel para o .txt do R

Edit: Já agora, e só por curiosidade porque não gosto da metodologia, aqui vão mais resultados.
Meti pen=0 como vocês, para ficar igual


[1] "distance%=2.0724"

MrsRuderico_scaled

North_Sea,30.6
Atlantic,26.4
West_Med,21.8
North_African,14
Red_Sea,3.6
South_Asian,2.6
West_Asian,1


[1] "distance%=2.2832"

Ruderico_scaled

Atlantic,60.2
North_African,13.2
North_Sea,12
East_Med,10.4
West_Med,4
Sub_Saharan,0.2


[1] "distance%=1.9126"

rxavierflima_scaled

North_Sea,33
West_Med,23.4
Atlantic,20.8
North_African,9.4
East_Med,7.6
Baltic,5.8


[1] "distance%=0.7205"

Portuguese

Atlantic,35.2
North_Sea,26.6
West_Med,14.8
North_African,13
East_Med,5.6
West_Asian,4.4
Oceanian,0.2
Red_Sea,0.2

Ruderico
07-08-2019, 05:43 PM
Vou postar mais uma série de resultados com diferentes modelos, só para verem como cada um de vocês varia consoante as referências. Primeiro meto sempre a referência nacional. Vou também meter o código caso queiram adaptar ou mudar referências que possam preferir. Todos os modelos foram feitos com coordenadas regulares e corridos com penalidade standard.

Este modelo é uma versão adaptada do Bronze tardio que o FabriceE fez para ver diferenças entre Franceses. Meti Marroquino do neolítico, Armenia LBA e Yoruba, que não haviam no modelo original. Não costumo meter o Yoruba, mas neste ficou. Algumas pessoas ficam com uns trocos daquilo, mas não sei até que ponto será real ou apenas efeito estatístico..eu geralmente vou para o segundo, daí que normalmente não inclua o Yoruba nos meus modelos

,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Morocco_EN,-0.01525,0.00905,-0.00685,-0.0259,0.0092,-0.0214,-0.03375,0.0093,0.07335,0.0024,0.0137,-0.01765,0.05055,-0.03355,0.0511,-0.0255,0.01315,-0.0438,-0.11835,0.02725,-0.03065,-0.0956,0.0671,-0.00825,0.01805
Halberstadt_LBA:I0099,0.0113,0.013,0.0155,0.0169,0 .0104,0.0086,0.0032,0.0022,0.0023,-0.0028,0.0013,0.0015,-0.0096,-0.0109,0.0116,0.0131,0.0058,-0.003,0.0005,0.0038,0.0021,0.0024,0.0029,0.006,0.0 023
Iberia_North_BA:I2471,0.0111,0.0153,0.0154,-0.0004,0.0207,0.0009,0.0001,0.0057,0.0125,0.0268,-0.0027,0.0068,-0.0125,-0.0041,0.0045,-0.0009,-0.0031,0.0055,-0.0047,-0.0016,0.0048,0.0095,-0.0081,-0.0033,0.0038
Mycenaean:I9006,0.0105,0.0158,-0.0018,-0.0212,0.0047,-0.0126,-0.0013,-0.003,-0.0014,0.0275,0.0027,0.0101,-0.0063,0.0021,-0.0146,-0.004,0.0189,0.006,0.0167,-0.0003,-0.006,-0.01,-0.0089,-0.0005,-0.0015
Scotland_LBA:I3130,0.0112,0.013,0.0165,0.0172,0.00 85,0.0055,0.0049,0.0021,0.0023,-0.0024,-0.0038,0.0039,-0.0115,-0.0162,0.0222,0.0011,-0.0217,0,0.0069,0.0008,0.0063,0.0039,-0.0015,0.0032,0.0032
ARM_LBA,0.0088333,0.0121,-0.0083333,-0.0036333,-0.0116,0.0004667,0.0016,-0.0050667,-0.0227667,-0.0117,-0.0032333,0.0015667,-0.0040333,-0.0033667,0.0068667,-0.0044333,-7e-04,0.0005667,0.0016,0.0045,-0.0045333,-0.0011667,0.0063,-0.0019,0.0024667
Yoruba,-0.0553545,0.0061545,0.0058636,0.0051727,0.0001636, 0.0044727,-0.0189,0.0207,-0.0239,0.0179818,0.0028455,0.0005273,0.0155091,0.0 006909,0.0092273,-0.0072455,0.0054273,0.0003545,0.0047909,-0.0023909,0.0012455,0.0018727,-0.0014273,-0.0003909,-0.0003545


[1] "distance%=0.7505"

Portuguese

Iberia_North_BA,50.4
Halberstadt_LBA,15.8
Mycenaean,13.8
Scotland_LBA,12.2
Morocco_EN,5.8
ARM_LBA,2


[1] "distance%=1.9073"

Ruderico

Iberia_North_BA,49.4
Scotland_LBA,33.2
Mycenaean,11.8
Morocco_EN,4.6
ARM_LBA,1


[1] "distance%=1.7175"

Lusitano

Iberia_North_BA,48
Scotland_LBA,26
Mycenaean,14.4
Morocco_EN,5.8
ARM_LBA,5.6
Yoruba,0.2


[1] "distance%=1.5165"

Pai_Lusitano

Iberia_North_BA,45.2
Halberstadt_LBA,20.4
Mycenaean,15.4
Scotland_LBA,10.8
ARM_LBA,4.2
Morocco_EN,2.6
Yoruba,1.4


[1] "distance%=1.6538"

rxavierflima

Iberia_North_BA,51.2
Scotland_LBA,24.4
Mycenaean,15.8
Morocco_EN,5.4
ARM_LBA,3.2


[1] "distance%=1.1989"

Gil_Vicente

Iberia_North_BA,53.6
Scotland_LBA,24.6
Mycenaean,11.2
ARM_LBA,4.6
Morocco_EN,3.2
Yoruba,2.8


[1] "distance%=1.803"

Defski

Iberia_North_BA,50
Halberstadt_LBA,16.8
Mycenaean,14.6
Scotland_LBA,10
Morocco_EN,6.2
ARM_LBA,2.4


[1] "distance%=1.3332"

Azor

Iberia_North_BA,51.6
Mycenaean,19
Halberstadt_LBA,8.6
Scotland_LBA,8.4
ARM_LBA,6.8
Morocco_EN,4
Yoruba,1.6


[1] "distance%=1.4186"

Rui

Iberia_North_BA,49.2
Scotland_LBA,27.6
Mycenaean,9.2
ARM_LBA,6.4
Morocco_EN,5
Yoruba,2.6


Resultados Bascos e uns Espanhois, só para comparar

[1] "distance%=1.5567"

Basque_Spanish

Iberia_North_BA,81.4
Scotland_LBA,14.4
Halberstadt_LBA,2.4
Morocco_EN,1.8


[1] "distance%=1.3977"

Spanish_Pais_Vasco

Iberia_North_BA,67.2
Scotland_LBA,27.4
Mycenaean,4.2
Morocco_EN,1.2


[1] "distance%=1.0215"

Spanish_Cantabria

Iberia_North_BA,64.2
Scotland_LBA,13.4
Halberstadt_LBA,9.6
Mycenaean,8.8
Morocco_EN,2.8
ARM_LBA,1.2


[1] "distance%=1.0263"

Spanish_Andalucia

Iberia_North_BA,54.6
Mycenaean,15.2
Scotland_LBA,14.4
Halberstadt_LBA,6.8
ARM_LBA,5.6
Morocco_EN,3.4

Ruderico
07-08-2019, 06:12 PM
Este modelo foi feito por mim, é também um modelo da idade do Bronze, mas feito com referências médias (excepto o Hallstatt, que só há um - o DA112 é só parcialmente Hallstatt). O norte Africano é o Guanche medieval salvo erro. Como de costume a referência germânica às vezes é comida, outras vezes come o Hallstatt e/ou o Iberia. Meti uma referência Levantina, mas não sei até que ponto faz sentido ou é realista. Seja como for está aí, mas quem quiser pode correr o modelo sem ela. Yoruba ficou de fora, quem tinha uns trocos antes também ia ter aqui.


,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Mycenaean,0.009475,0.0154,-0.00215,-0.020025,0.00705,-0.009725,-0.000225,-0.000925,0.00265,0.025975,0.0034,0.0113,-0.0086,-0.00045,-0.012075,-0.0074,0.016125,0.00285,0.0098,-0.003175,-0.0047,0.00015,-0.00535,0.00095,-6e-04
Iberia_BA,0.0112,0.01525,0.0144,-2e-04,0.022,0.0013,-0.00095,8e-04,0.0194,0.0301,-9e-04,0.00475,-0.0142,-0.0176,0.00645,0.00135,-0.00045,0.00235,0.00155,0.0027,0.00485,-0.00075,-0.00725,-0.01265,0.00885
Hallstatt_Celt:DA111,0.0109,0.0149,0.0168,0.0081,0 .0142,0.0021,0.0005,0.001,0.0102,0.0134,-0.0076,0.0001,-0.0112,-0.0023,0.0108,-0.0072,-0.014,0.003,0.0047,0.0013,0.0079,0.0049,-0.0036,-0.0049,-0.0044
Nordic_BA,0.0103,0.0136667,0.0177333,0.0172333,0.0 098,0.0085333,0.0049667,0.0007667,-0.0004667,-0.0020667,-0.0015333,0.0024667,-0.0038667,-0.0101333,0.0104333,0.0083333,0.0082667,0.0033667, 0.0052,0.0022667,0.0091667,-0.0039667,0.0022,-0.0017333,-0.0062333
Armenia_MBA,0.0091,0.01205,-0.0084,-0.0041,-0.0114,-0.001,0.0014,-0.00285,-0.0262,-0.01035,0.00255,0,-0.00515,0.00125,0.01025,-2e-04,0.00065,-0.0029,0.00045,-1e-04,0.00435,0.00105,0.0044,-0.00065,8e-04
North_African,-0.00346,0.01294,-0.00062,-0.02128,0.01096,-0.01304,-0.01276,0.00358,0.03466,0.01676,0.00466,-0.004,0.01228,-0.01286,0.0171,-0.00984,0.00244,-0.01516,-0.03526,0.00832,-0.0108,-0.0305,0.01888,-0.00098,0.00386
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,0.00714,0.01446,-0.01626,-0.03032,-0.00342,-0.01396,-0.00204,-0.00286,0.0056,0.00558,0.00646,-0.00652,0.01452,0.004,-0.00558,0.00492,-0.00012,-0.00094,0.0012,0.0034,0.00342,0.0061,-0.00102,0.00132,-0.00042



[1] "distance%=0.989"

Portuguese

Iberia_BA,32.4
Hallstatt_Celt,25.6
Nordic_BA,13
North_African,11.8
Mycenaean,8.2
Armenia_MBA,5.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3.4


[1] "distance%=1.6135"

Ruderico

Hallstatt_Celt,64
Iberia_BA,17.2
North_African,9.6
Mycenaean,5.4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2
Armenia_MBA,1.8


[1] "distance%=1.5572"

Lusitano

Hallstatt_Celt,54.2
Iberia_BA,20
North_African,11
Mycenaean,6.4
Armenia_MBA,5.4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3


[1] "distance%=1.611"

Pai_Lusitano

Iberia_BA,33.6
Nordic_BA,25
Hallstatt_Celt,13
Mycenaean,12.2
North_African,6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,5.6
Armenia_MBA,4.6


[1] "distance%=1.5947"

rxavierflima

Hallstatt_Celt,53
Iberia_BA,22
North_African,10.4
Mycenaean,7.8
Armenia_MBA,3.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3


[1] "distance%=1.3959"

Gil_Vicente

Hallstatt_Celt,50.4
Iberia_BA,23.4
Armenia_MBA,8.2
North_African,7.2
Mycenaean,6.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.6
Nordic_BA,1.4


[1] "distance%=1.494"

Defski

Iberia_BA,49
Nordic_BA,19.8
North_African,11
Hallstatt_Celt,6.4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,5.6
Mycenaean,4.4
Armenia_MBA,3.8


[1] "distance%=1.179"

Azor

Hallstatt_Celt,36.4
Iberia_BA,19.8
Mycenaean,18.8
North_African,9
Nordic_BA,6.4
Armenia_MBA,6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3.6


[1] "distance%=1.1554"

Rui

Hallstatt_Celt,64.4
North_African,11
Iberia_BA,8.8
Armenia_MBA,5.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,5
Mycenaean,4.6
Nordic_BA,0.4



Resultados Bascos e uns Espanhois, só para comparar


[1] "distance%=1.0601"

Basque_Spanish

Iberia_BA,68
Hallstatt_Celt,25.6
Nordic_BA,5.4
North_African,0.6
Armenia_MBA,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.1446"

Spanish_Pais_Vasco

Hallstatt_Celt,51.4
Iberia_BA,45.8
North_African,1.4
Armenia_MBA,1
Mycenaean,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.2471"

Spanish_Cantabria

Iberia_BA,44.8
Hallstatt_Celt,26.4
Nordic_BA,12.2
Mycenaean,7.2
North_African,4.6
Armenia_MBA,2.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.2


[1] "distance%=0.8535"

Spanish_Andalucia

Iberia_BA,32.2
Hallstatt_Celt,30.6
Mycenaean,10.6
Nordic_BA,9
North_African,7.4
Armenia_MBA,7
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3.2

Lusitano
07-08-2019, 08:28 PM
Obrigado Ruderico. Só um aparte, o Azor e o Bruma são a mesma pessoa (pelo menos no TA eram).

Já dos resultados Espanhóis seria interessente comparar com a Galiza, Extremadura e Castela e Leão.

Ruderico
07-08-2019, 08:30 PM
Isso explica os resultados virtualmente iguais :lol:
Apaguei um deles

Lusitano
07-08-2019, 08:34 PM
Isso explica os resultados virtualmente iguais :lol:
Apaguei um deles

Ele já fez quase todos os testes genéticos que existem no mercado (23andMe, FTDNA, MyHeritage, LivingDNA, etc). Não me admira que tenha feito o G25 para mais que uma das suas raw data mas sim, deve ser virtualmente igual.

Ruderico
07-09-2019, 03:48 PM
Haja dinheiro para torrar na mesma coisa n vezes.


O modelo seguinte é quase igual ao standard que uso com as amostras Visigodas do Olalde2019, só decidi acrescentar uma referência levantina do período Romano (o modelo é suposto ser baseado em amostras da Idade do Ferro e do periodo Romano) e o Yoruba. Para alguns a inclusão do Yoruba piora as fits (eu), para outros melhora (Gil Vicente). Novamente não sei se faz de facto sentido usa-la ou não, mas vou incluir só porque sim. Quanto à referência Levantina o que eu gosto nela é que baixa o norte Africano ligeiramente, para valores mais próximos dos estimados em estudos científicos (~10% para a média/referência de Portugal)


,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Roman_Imperial_proxy,0.0094,0.0146333,-0.0066,-0.0170667,0.0018667,-0.0057667,-0.0007667,-0.0016333,0.0004333,0.0084667,0.0043667,0.0039667,-0.0056,0.0004667,-0.0050333,-8e-04,0.0064333,-0.0008667,0.0035667,0.0005667,-0.0012333,0.0018333,0.0025333,0.0015,0.0013333
North_African,-0.00346,0.01294,-0.00062,-0.02128,0.01096,-0.01304,-0.01276,0.00358,0.03466,0.01676,0.00466,-0.004,0.01228,-0.01286,0.0171,-0.00984,0.00244,-0.01516,-0.03526,0.00832,-0.0108,-0.0305,0.01888,-0.00098,0.00386
Celtiberian,0.011,0.0141,0.01725,0.00355,0.01885,0 .0012,-0.00145,0.00195,0.01275,0.0192,-0.00135,0.0059,-0.0114,-0.0062,0.0079,5e-05,-0.00635,7e-04,-1e-04,-6e-04,0.0066,0.0019,-0.00575,-0.0098,-0.0051
Visigothic,0.011125,0.0134,0.0125,0.00775,0.011125 ,0.00325,0.00265,0.002725,0.00235,0.00315,0.0044,0 .00405,0.0073,0.0039,0.0025,0.006725,0.005775,0.00 39,0.003925,0.005925,0.00685,0.001075,0.001725,0.0 06575,0.003125
Armenia_LBA,0.0088333,0.0121,-0.0083333,-0.0036333,-0.0116,0.0004667,0.0016,-0.0050667,-0.0227667,-0.0117,-0.0032333,0.0015667,-0.0040333,-0.0033667,0.0068667,-0.0044333,-7e-04,0.0005667,0.0016,0.0045,-0.0045333,-0.0011667,0.0063,-0.0019,0.0024667
Levant_Roman,0.007675,0.014375,-0.015275,-0.02705,-0.0036,-0.009975,-0.003325,-0.003225,0.0038,0.007275,0.001675,-0.006475,0.00865,-0.001925,-0.007075,0.007725,0.0013,-0.000925,0.002075,0.00265,-2e-04,0.003625,-0.0029,-7e-04,-0.004
Yoruba,-0.0553545,0.0061545,0.0058636,0.0051727,0.0001636, 0.0044727,-0.0189,0.0207,-0.0239,0.0179818,0.0028455,0.0005273,0.0155091,0.0 006909,0.0092273,-0.0072455,0.0054273,0.0003545,0.0047909,-0.0023909,0.0012455,0.0018727,-0.0014273,-0.0003909,-0.0003545




[1] "distance%=1.0305"

Portuguese

Celtiberian,66.4
North_African,11.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,9.6
Visigothic,9
Armenia_LBA,2.6
Levant_Roman,1


[1] "distance%=1.9535"

Ruderico

Celtiberian,80.8
North_African,8.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,5.8
Armenia_LBA,4
Levant_Roman,0.6
Yoruba,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.6996"

Lusitano

Celtiberian,74.8
North_African,10.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,6.8
Armenia_LBA,6
Yoruba,1
Levant_Roman,0.8


[1] "distance%=1.6928"

Pai_Lusitano

Celtiberian,59.8
Visigothic,14.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,14
North_African,4.2
Levant_Roman,3.6
Armenia_LBA,2.8
Yoruba,1.4


[1] "distance%=1.7612"

rxavierflima

Celtiberian,72.2
North_African,10.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,10.4
Armenia_LBA,3.8
Visigothic,2.8
Yoruba,0.2


[1] "distance%=1.5981"

Gil_Vicente

Celtiberian,73.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,7
Armenia_LBA,6.4
North_African,5.2
Yoruba,3.2
Visigothic,2.6
Levant_Roman,1.8


[1] "distance%=1.7954"

Defski

Celtiberian,69
North_African,10.8
Visigothic,5.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,5.6
Levant_Roman,5.2
Armenia_LBA,3.6


[1] "distance%=1.1127"

Azor

Celtiberian,63
Roman_Imperial_proxy,26
North_African,7.4
Armenia_LBA,2
Yoruba,1.6


[1] "distance%=1.5499"

Rui

Celtiberian,66
North_African,10.2
Armenia_LBA,6.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,5.8
Visigothic,5.8
Levant_Roman,3.6
Yoruba,2.4

As mulheres

[1] "distance%=1.763"

MrsRuderico

Celtiberian,73.2
North_African,13.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,6.2
Armenia_LBA,2.6
Levant_Roman,2.6
Visigothic,1.4
Yoruba,0.4


[1] "distance%=2.3716"

Trebaruna

Celtiberian,71.6
North_African,8
Visigothic,8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,6.6
Levant_Roman,4
Armenia_LBA,1.8


[1] "distance%=1.0759"

elisabetenjoaquim

Celtiberian,59.6
Visigothic,19
North_African,10
Roman_Imperial_proxy,7.4
Armenia_LBA,2
Levant_Roman,1.6
Yoruba,0.4



Estrangeiros para comparação. Meti mais referências do que antes.
Obviamente que o modelo não foi feito para Italianos e Franceses, mas incluí-os na mesma para dar uma ideia de como cada grupo seria modelado. Curiosamente as fits até são decentes para médias populacionais, apesar do Celtiberian ser provavelmente uma referência errada para cada um deles (muito a Norte para Itália, muito a Ocidente/Sul para França)

[1] "distance%=1.2295"

Italian_Bergamo

Celtiberian,45.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,45.2
Visigothic,8.8
Yoruba,0.2


[1] "distance%=1.3354"

French

Celtiberian,57.4
Visigothic,34.8
Armenia_LBA,6.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,1.4
North_African,0.2


[1] "distance%=1.4506"

Spanish_Pais_Vasco

Celtiberian,98.4
North_African,1.2
Armenia_LBA,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.3653"

Spanish_Cantabria

Celtiberian,84.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,6.6
North_African,4.4
Armenia_LBA,2.2
Visigothic,1.4
Levant_Roman,0.8


[1] "distance%=1.0432"

Spanish_Andalucia

Celtiberian,73.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,11
North_African,6.2
Armenia_LBA,4.2
Levant_Roman,2.6
Visigothic,1.8
Yoruba,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.5207"

Spanish_Galicia

Celtiberian,58.2
Visigothic,17.4
North_African,10.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,9.6
Levant_Roman,3.8
Armenia_LBA,0.8


[1] "distance%=1.0387"

Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon

Celtiberian,76.2
North_African,8.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,5.2
Visigothic,4.2
Armenia_LBA,3.8
Levant_Roman,1.4
Yoruba,0.4


[1] "distance%=0.9154"

Spanish_Extremadura

Celtiberian,64.6
North_African,11
Visigothic,10.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,7.6
Levant_Roman,4
Armenia_LBA,2.4


[1] "distance%=1.1232"

Spanish_Aragon

Celtiberian,80.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,6.8
North_African,6.2
Visigothic,3.2
Armenia_LBA,1.6
Levant_Roman,1.4

rxavierflima
07-10-2019, 07:11 AM
Pra mim faz todo o sentido usar uma componente levantina. Mas e essa Armenia_LBA? É um proxy para quê?

Ruderico
07-10-2019, 09:19 AM
Também acho que faz!

Basicamente para quem tenha maiores tendências do oeste Asiático, melhora um pouco a fit de algumas referências, por exemplo o Lusitano passa de 1.7029 para 1.7738 sem Armenia_LBA. Por outro lado distâncias virtualmente iguais com referências adicionais pode simplesmente significar que não estão lá a fazer nada.
Vou publicar os resultados do modelo acima sem o Armenia_LBA. Entretanto corri o modelo anterior mais uma vez, só para ver se o nMonte dava alguma fit melhor e acrescentei o resultado das mulheres/namoradas em ambos



[1] "distance%=1.0435"

Portuguese

Celtiberian,65.8
North_African,11.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,11.2
Visigothic,10.6
Levant_Roman,1


[1] "distance%=1.9736"

Ruderico

Celtiberian,81.6
North_African,10
Roman_Imperial_proxy,7
Yoruba,0.8
Levant_Roman,0.6


[1] "distance%=1.7738"

Lusitano

Celtiberian,75.4
North_African,11.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,9.4
Levant_Roman,2.2
Yoruba,1.4


[1] "distance%=1.6902"

Pai_Lusitano

Celtiberian,59.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,16.2
Visigothic,14.8
North_African,4.4
Levant_Roman,3.6
Yoruba,1.8


[1] "distance%=1.7986"

rxavierflima

Celtiberian,71.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,12.6
North_African,10.2
Visigothic,5
Yoruba,0.6
Levant_Roman,0.2


[1] "distance%=1.6859"

Gil_Vicente

Celtiberian,71.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,11.2
North_African,5.6
Visigothic,5.6
Yoruba,3.6
Levant_Roman,2.2


[1] "distance%=1.7932"

Defski

Celtiberian,68.2
North_African,11.4
Visigothic,7.2
Levant_Roman,6.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,6.6


[1] "distance%=1.1148"

Azor

Celtiberian,63.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,27.6
North_African,7
Yoruba,1.8


[1] "distance%=1.6436"

Rui

Celtiberian,65.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,9.4
North_African,9
Visigothic,7.6
Levant_Roman,5.4
Yoruba,3.4



[1] "distance%=1.7703"

MrsRuderico

Celtiberian,72.6
North_African,13.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,6.2
Levant_Roman,4
Visigothic,2.6
Yoruba,0.8


[1] "distance%=2.3688"

Trebaruna

Celtiberian,71.8
Visigothic,8.6
North_African,8.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,6
Levant_Roman,5.2
Yoruba,0.2


[1] "distance%=1.0745"

elisabetenjoaquim

Celtiberian,60
Visigothic,18.8
North_African,10.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,7
Levant_Roman,2.8
Yoruba,0.8

rxavierflima
07-10-2019, 10:07 AM
A minha pergunta era no sentido de: a que povos correspondem essa componente Armenia en termos históricos em Portugal?
No modelo sem essa componente, no meu caso, essa componente Armenia fica distribuída por Visigothic e Roman Imperial.

Ruderico
07-10-2019, 10:33 AM
Nenhum em particular, acho que tecnicamente são Hurrians ou Mittani, apenas a acrescentei porque parece beneficiar alguns modelos num caso ou noutro. Há um post no eurogenes que fala das referências de Armenia_MLBA. Teoricamente pode ser algo que tenha cá chegado algures durante o período Romano. Ou então pode não ser algo real, para a maioria as fits são quase iguais com ou sem a referência, e as suas percentagens são geralmente baixas

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2016/10/hurrians-and-others.html


Edit: Teoricamente também pode ter que ver com Alanos, visto que eles andavam pelo norte do Caucaso antes de chegarem à peninsula Ibérica. Eu nunca costumo dar-lhes importância, mas sei que o Lugus gosta de ver modelos em que eles são considerados. Se calhar ainda vou tentar arranjar uma referência qualquer que tente replicar isso

Ruderico
07-11-2019, 11:03 AM
Adaptei o K13 do Lusitano para coordenadas regulares, mudei uma ou outra coisa mas nada de especial porque gostei das escolhas, por exemplo tirei Etiopes porque não são SSAs e mudei a referência do East Asian porque o Vietnamita não está na última lista do G25. Não calculei as médias, o que faz as comparações entre cada um menos fiável, mas também só há 2 referências por componente portanto não vem mal ao mundo.
Como de costume usei penalidade standard e corri o modelo uma série de vezes para cada um, postei a melhor fit


,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Atlantic:Basque_Spanish,0.0115889,0.0148111,0.0154 556,0.0027889,0.0187111,4.44e-05,-0.0014111,0.0001778,0.0153333,0.0250222,-0.0027889,0.0077444,-0.0153222,-0.0136333,0.0132222,0.0028111,-0.0044556,0.0021889,-0.0014444,-5.56e-05,0.0070444,0.0020111,-0.0055889,-0.0075,0.0018889
Atlantic:Basque_French,0.01125,0.01497,0.01463,0.0 0397,0.01833,9e-04,-6e-04,0.00144,0.01496,0.02261,-0.00571,0.0069,-0.01411,-0.01019,0.00974,-0.00146,-0.00914,0.00239,-0.00057,-0.00353,0.00814,0.00201,-0.00701,-0.00761,6e-05
North_Sea:Orcadian,0.01148,0.01322,0.0167,0.015,0. 01258,0.00629,0.00076,0.0017,0.00246,0.00098,-0.00421,0.00321,-0.00801,-0.00787,0.01647,0.00229,-0.0095,0.00274,0.00213,0.00024,0.00397,0.00182,-0.00175,0.00833,-5e-04
North_Sea:Norwegian,0.0117571,0.0126,0.0180143,0.0 165429,0.0125571,0.0075429,0.0017857,0.0027286,0.0 028,0.0002143,-0.0023,0.0024571,-0.0050571,-0.0085,0.0155286,0.0070857,-0.0041571,0.0020571,0.0005429,6e-04,0.0045143,0.0045,0.0034714,0.0147143,0.0009143
Baltic:Finnish_East,0.01112,0.00743,0.02525,0.0251 7,0.00907,0.0086,0.00384,0.00709,0.00255,-0.01654,0.00295,-0.00593,0.01245,0.00416,0.00059,-0.00212,-0.00386,-0.00025,-0.00165,0.00434,0.00706,0.00103,0.00184,0.00408,0. 00368
Baltic:Lithuanian,0.01205,0.012575,0.02245,0.02527 5,0.0152,0.010775,0.00405,0.00735,0.001,-0.015375,-0.004375,-0.0075,0.01595,0.0243,-0.006875,-0.000225,-0.003175,-0.00115,0.000375,0.002725,-0.002575,-0.0031,0.0085,-0.00815,-7.5e-05
West_Med:Sardinian,0.0106,0.01654,0.00734,-0.01596,0.0196,-0.00806,-0.00148,0.00186,0.02088,0.04382,-0.00128,0.0106,-0.01818,-0.00958,-0.00974,-0.00348,0.00924,-0.00104,0.0014,-0.01034,-0.00408,-0.0034,-0.00788,-0.0175,7e-04
West_Asian:Abkhasian,0.009575,0.01135,-0.012425,-0.012375,-0.0129625,-0.0023,0.0048125,-0.0027375,-0.0301625,-0.0123625,-0.001475,0.0061875,-0.015725,0.0027875,0.0020375,-0.0176125,0.0085375,-0.004125,-0.0089,0.0156625,0.011025,0.00225,0.0027,-0.0070375,-0.001275
East_Med:Lebanese_Druze,0.00739,0.01383,-0.01317,-0.0217,-0.00509,-0.00903,-0.00103,-0.00231,-0.00113,0.00417,0.00317,-0.00202,0.00611,0.00147,-0.00506,0.00465,-0.0016,0.00066,0.00197,-0.00073,-0.00106,0.00157,2e-04,0.00209,-0.00049
East_Med:Cypriot,0.0087625,0.01445,-0.0100375,-0.02175,-0.002275,-0.0087125,7e-04,-0.0020625,0.00145,0.0076125,0.0027375,-1e-04,0.0017125,0.001325,-0.0063375,0.000675,0.0018125,0.0007875,0.0017875,-0.001,-0.0019625,0.000925,-0.0022,0.001475,-0.001725
South_Asian:Chamar,0.0033333,-0.0095,-0.04485,0.0392167,-0.0232833,0.0237333,-0.0013833,0.0053167,0.029,0.0209833,-0.0031667,-0.00075,0.001,0.00325,-0.007,-0.0095667,0.00585,-0.00105,-0.0031167,0.0052,0.0017333,0.0047833,0.0006167,0.0 023833,-0.00535
East_Asian:Han,0.0018182,-0.0443818,-0.0022,-0.0201727,0.0253727,0.0134273,0.0012364,-0.0020818,-0.0073455,-0.0017091,-0.0305364,-0.0047091,0.0048909,-0.0058909,-0.0031909,0.0009455,0.0013455,-0.0006818,-0.0016273,-0.0081727,0.0098091,0.0056273,0.0114455,-0.0010727,-0.0018636
Siberian:Even,0.0037,-0.0425333,0.0371,-0.0049,-0.0451,-0.0293667,0.0122333,0.0159,0.0160667,0.0143333,0.0 343,0.0052333,-0.0098333,0.0065333,-0.0117667,-0.0083333,0.0017333,0.0105667,0.0229333,0.0101667, 0.0404,-0.0366333,0.0059,0.0105667,0.0159
Amerindian:Karitiana,0.0051667,-0.0315167,0.0313833,0.03355,-0.0369333,-0.0048833,-0.1374667,-0.16575,-0.0075167,-0.0095167,0.0005833,-0.0018,-0.0011,0.01985,-0.0033667,0.0033333,0.00845,0.00205,8.33e-05,-0.0002833,-0.0044333,0.0088167,-0.0045,-0.0021,-0.0056667
Oceanian:Papuan,-0.00404,-0.02374,-0.06994,0.09574,0.06724,-0.18272,-0.00084,0.00304,-0.02018,-0.00656,-0.01164,0.00058,0.00094,-0.00226,0.00012,-0.00024,-0.00168,-0.00146,-0.00086,-0.00122,0.00188,0.00146,0.001,0.00152,0.00134
Sub_Saharan:Yoruba,-0.0553545,0.0061545,0.0058636,0.0051727,0.0001636, 0.0044727,-0.0189,0.0207,-0.0239,0.0179818,0.0028455,0.0005273,0.0155091,0.0 006909,0.0092273,-0.0072455,0.0054273,0.0003545,0.0047909,-0.0023909,0.0012455,0.0018727,-0.0014273,-0.0003909,-0.0003545
Red_Sea:BedouinA,0.0025111,0.0131556,-0.0126222,-0.0256222,-0.0045111,-0.0116,-0.0045556,-0.0020111,0.0114667,-0.0008889,0.0050333,-0.0071556,0.0166444,0.0003444,0.0011556,0.0053222,-0.0021,-0.0017667,-0.0027111,0.0066,0.0001667,0.0020444,0.0001556,0.0 014667,-0.0013333
Red_Sea:Yemenite_Amran,0.0040286,0.0133357,-0.0163143,-0.0314071,-0.0048286,-0.0151143,-0.0037143,-0.0033643,0.0220071,-0.0023357,0.0072357,-0.0153214,0.0312857,0.0038214,0.0029429,0.0130143,-0.0108429,0.0033571,0.0014571,0.0125571,0.00555,0. 0077,-0.0051357,0.0034643,-0.0039929
North_African:Moroccan_North,-0.0026333,0.0135222,-0.0008056,-0.0208667,0.0091167,-0.0114444,-0.0104056,0.0021889,0.0298167,0.0179611,0.0036389,-0.0043722,0.0125056,-0.0106889,0.0111556,-0.0079667,0.0009667,-0.0141944,-0.0324167,0.0074333,-0.0097722,-0.0280056,0.0173944,-0.0046278,0.0036722
North_African:Moroccan,-0.0075,0.0128222,-0.0034,-0.0219444,0.0068667,-0.0118111,-0.0118222,0.0042333,0.0270889,0.0133889,0.0058556,-0.0060222,0.0181556,-0.0105111,0.0120111,-0.0046667,-0.0021222,-0.0134444,-0.0305667,0.0075444,-0.0078889,-0.0238667,0.0169667,-0.0009333,0.0049444




[1] "distance%=0.709"

Portuguese

Atlantic,45.4
North_Sea,20.8
West_Med,12
North_African,9
East_Med,4.2
West_Asian,2.6
Red_Sea,2.4
Baltic,1.8
Sub_Saharan,0.6
East_Asian,0.4
Oceanian,0.4
South_Asian,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.7522"

Ruderico

Atlantic,64.6
North_Sea,14
North_African,8.2
West_Med,4.6
East_Med,4.4
West_Asian,1.4
East_Asian,1
Red_Sea,1
Siberian,0.4
Sub_Saharan,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.4592"

Lusitano

Atlantic,51.8
North_African,11.8
West_Med,11.2
North_Sea,9.8
Baltic,5.6
East_Med,4.4
West_Asian,1.8
East_Asian,1.4
Siberian,0.8
Sub_Saharan,0.8
Oceanian,0.4
Red_Sea,0.2


[1] "distance%=1.5534"

rxavierflima

Atlantic,47
North_Sea,17.4
West_Med,11.2
North_African,9.8
East_Med,6.8
Baltic,5
Siberian,1.2
Red_Sea,1
South_Asian,0.2
Sub_Saharan,0.2
West_Asian,0.2


[1] "distance%=1.1084"

Gil_Vicente

Atlantic,50
North_Sea,21
West_Med,8.4
East_Med,6.6
North_African,5
Baltic,3.2
Sub_Saharan,1.8
West_Asian,1.8
Oceanian,1
Red_Sea,0.6
Amerindian,0.2
East_Asian,0.2
South_Asian,0.2


[1] "distance%=1.498"

Defski

Atlantic,42.8
West_Med,16.8
North_Sea,13.8
North_African,10.2
East_Med,6.4
Baltic,4.8
East_Asian,2.4
Red_Sea,1.8
South_Asian,0.6
Amerindian,0.2
West_Asian,0.2


[1] "distance%=1.1598"

Azor

Atlantic,39.6
West_Med,15.8
North_Sea,15.6
East_Med,11.2
North_African,5.8
West_Asian,4.6
Sub_Saharan,2.6
Baltic,2.4
Red_Sea,1.6
Amerindian,0.6
Oceanian,0.2


[1] "distance%=1.2445"

Rui

Atlantic,47.8
North_Sea,20.2
North_African,9.4
East_Med,5.6
Baltic,4.6
Red_Sea,3.2
West_Med,3
Sub_Saharan,2
West_Asian,1.8
East_Asian,1.6
Amerindian,0.6
South_Asian,0.2



[1] "distance%=1.6301"

MrsRuderico

Atlantic,46
North_Sea,18.4
West_Med,13.8
North_African,12.2
East_Med,4.4
Red_Sea,1.8
South_Asian,1.4
Sub_Saharan,0.6
West_Asian,0.6
Siberian,0.4
Baltic,0.2
East_Asian,0.2


[1] "distance%=2.2807"

Trebaruna

Atlantic,57.2
North_Sea,14.4
West_Med,8.6
North_African,7.8
East_Med,3.4
Red_Sea,3.2
West_Asian,1.6
Baltic,1.2
Amerindian,1
Sub_Saharan,0.8
East_Asian,0.6
South_Asian,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.7823"

elisabetenjoaquim

Atlantic,40.2
North_Sea,25.2
North_African,8.8
West_Med,8.2
East_Med,6
Baltic,5
Red_Sea,3.6
East_Asian,1.2
West_Asian,0.8
Sub_Saharan,0.6
Amerindian,0.2
Oceanian,0.2


Espanhóis

[1] "distance%=1.2821"

Spanish_Galicia

Atlantic,44
North_Sea,19
West_Med,12.2
North_African,8.4
East_Med,5.2
Baltic,4.4
Red_Sea,4
West_Asian,1.2
South_Asian,0.8
East_Asian,0.6
Sub_Saharan,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.5727"

Spanish_Extremadura

Atlantic,45.4
North_Sea,15
West_Med,12
North_African,9.6
East_Med,6
Baltic,4.8
Red_Sea,2.8
West_Asian,1.8
South_Asian,1.4
Amerindian,0.4
Sub_Saharan,0.4
East_Asian,0.2
Oceanian,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.684"

Spanish_Andalucia

Atlantic,46
North_Sea,18.2
West_Med,15.2
East_Med,5.2
North_African,5.2
West_Asian,2.8
Baltic,2.2
Red_Sea,2.2
East_Asian,1.2
Sub_Saharan,1.2
Oceanian,0.4
Amerindian,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.8419"

Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon

Atlantic,50.4
North_Sea,17.2
West_Med,10.4
North_African,8.4
Baltic,4
East_Med,3.8
Red_Sea,2.4
West_Asian,1.6
South_Asian,1.2
East_Asian,0.4
Sub_Saharan,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.6563"

Spanish_Cantabria

Atlantic,54
North_Sea,20
West_Med,15.8
East_Med,4
North_African,2.6
Baltic,1.2
Oceanian,0.6
Red_Sea,0.6
West_Asian,0.6
East_Asian,0.4
South_Asian,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.6558"

Spanish_Aragon

Atlantic,54.6
North_Sea,19.8
West_Med,13
North_African,4
East_Med,3.4
Red_Sea,1.6
West_Asian,1.6
South_Asian,0.8
Baltic,0.4
Sub_Saharan,0.4
East_Asian,0.2
Siberian,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.4895"

Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha

Atlantic,55
North_Sea,16
West_Med,11.6
East_Med,6
North_African,3.8
Red_Sea,2
Baltic,1.8
West_Asian,1.6
Siberian,0.8
Sub_Saharan,0.6
South_Asian,0.4
East_Asian,0.2
Oceanian,0.2


[1] "distance%=1.1334"

Spanish_Valencia

Atlantic,74
North_Sea,8.6
East_Med,5.4
North_African,4
Baltic,1.8
Red_Sea,1.8
West_Asian,1.6
West_Med,1.4
Sub_Saharan,0.6
Siberian,0.4
Oceanian,0.2
South_Asian,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.6969"

Spanish_Murcia

Atlantic,42
West_Med,17
North_Sea,14.8
East_Med,7.4
Baltic,5.6
North_African,4.8
Red_Sea,2.8
East_Asian,2
Siberian,1
South_Asian,1
West_Asian,0.8
Amerindian,0.6
Sub_Saharan,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.7492"

Spanish_Pais_Vasco

Atlantic,88.4
North_Sea,8
West_Med,1.8
North_African,1
Siberian,0.6
East_Med,0.2



Estrangeiros

[1] "distance%=1.0265"

Italian_Bergamo

East_Med,30
Atlantic,23.2
North_Sea,22.6
West_Med,17
Baltic,4.2
West_Asian,1.4
Siberian,0.8
Sub_Saharan,0.8


[1] "distance%=0.9879"

Italian_Tuscan

East_Med,45.4
North_Sea,21
West_Med,13.2
Atlantic,13
West_Asian,4.4
Baltic,1.8
Siberian,0.6
Sub_Saharan,0.4
Oceanian,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.6624"

French

North_Sea,56.8
Atlantic,25.4
East_Med,5.2
West_Med,4.8
West_Asian,2
Baltic,1.8
North_African,1.4
Red_Sea,1.2
South_Asian,0.6
East_Asian,0.4
Siberian,0.4

rxavierflima
07-11-2019, 11:42 AM
Adaptei o K13 do Lusitano para coordenadas regulares, mudei uma ou outra coisa mas nada de especial porque gostei das escolhas, por exemplo tirei Etiopes porque não são SSAs e mudei a referência do East Asian porque o Vietnamita não está na última lista do G25. Não calculei as médias, o que faz as comparações entre cada um menos fiável, mas também só há 2 referências por componente portanto não vem mal ao mundo.
Como de costume usei penalidade standard e corri o modelo uma série de vezes para cada um, postei a melhor fit


,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Atlantic:Basque_Spanish,0.0115889,0.0148111,0.0154 556,0.0027889,0.0187111,4.44e-05,-0.0014111,0.0001778,0.0153333,0.0250222,-0.0027889,0.0077444,-0.0153222,-0.0136333,0.0132222,0.0028111,-0.0044556,0.0021889,-0.0014444,-5.56e-05,0.0070444,0.0020111,-0.0055889,-0.0075,0.0018889
Atlantic:Basque_French,0.01125,0.01497,0.01463,0.0 0397,0.01833,9e-04,-6e-04,0.00144,0.01496,0.02261,-0.00571,0.0069,-0.01411,-0.01019,0.00974,-0.00146,-0.00914,0.00239,-0.00057,-0.00353,0.00814,0.00201,-0.00701,-0.00761,6e-05
North_Sea:Orcadian,0.01148,0.01322,0.0167,0.015,0. 01258,0.00629,0.00076,0.0017,0.00246,0.00098,-0.00421,0.00321,-0.00801,-0.00787,0.01647,0.00229,-0.0095,0.00274,0.00213,0.00024,0.00397,0.00182,-0.00175,0.00833,-5e-04
North_Sea:Norwegian,0.0117571,0.0126,0.0180143,0.0 165429,0.0125571,0.0075429,0.0017857,0.0027286,0.0 028,0.0002143,-0.0023,0.0024571,-0.0050571,-0.0085,0.0155286,0.0070857,-0.0041571,0.0020571,0.0005429,6e-04,0.0045143,0.0045,0.0034714,0.0147143,0.0009143
Baltic:Finnish_East,0.01112,0.00743,0.02525,0.0251 7,0.00907,0.0086,0.00384,0.00709,0.00255,-0.01654,0.00295,-0.00593,0.01245,0.00416,0.00059,-0.00212,-0.00386,-0.00025,-0.00165,0.00434,0.00706,0.00103,0.00184,0.00408,0. 00368
Baltic:Lithuanian,0.01205,0.012575,0.02245,0.02527 5,0.0152,0.010775,0.00405,0.00735,0.001,-0.015375,-0.004375,-0.0075,0.01595,0.0243,-0.006875,-0.000225,-0.003175,-0.00115,0.000375,0.002725,-0.002575,-0.0031,0.0085,-0.00815,-7.5e-05
West_Med:Sardinian,0.0106,0.01654,0.00734,-0.01596,0.0196,-0.00806,-0.00148,0.00186,0.02088,0.04382,-0.00128,0.0106,-0.01818,-0.00958,-0.00974,-0.00348,0.00924,-0.00104,0.0014,-0.01034,-0.00408,-0.0034,-0.00788,-0.0175,7e-04
West_Asian:Abkhasian,0.009575,0.01135,-0.012425,-0.012375,-0.0129625,-0.0023,0.0048125,-0.0027375,-0.0301625,-0.0123625,-0.001475,0.0061875,-0.015725,0.0027875,0.0020375,-0.0176125,0.0085375,-0.004125,-0.0089,0.0156625,0.011025,0.00225,0.0027,-0.0070375,-0.001275
East_Med:Lebanese_Druze,0.00739,0.01383,-0.01317,-0.0217,-0.00509,-0.00903,-0.00103,-0.00231,-0.00113,0.00417,0.00317,-0.00202,0.00611,0.00147,-0.00506,0.00465,-0.0016,0.00066,0.00197,-0.00073,-0.00106,0.00157,2e-04,0.00209,-0.00049
East_Med:Cypriot,0.0087625,0.01445,-0.0100375,-0.02175,-0.002275,-0.0087125,7e-04,-0.0020625,0.00145,0.0076125,0.0027375,-1e-04,0.0017125,0.001325,-0.0063375,0.000675,0.0018125,0.0007875,0.0017875,-0.001,-0.0019625,0.000925,-0.0022,0.001475,-0.001725
South_Asian:Chamar,0.0033333,-0.0095,-0.04485,0.0392167,-0.0232833,0.0237333,-0.0013833,0.0053167,0.029,0.0209833,-0.0031667,-0.00075,0.001,0.00325,-0.007,-0.0095667,0.00585,-0.00105,-0.0031167,0.0052,0.0017333,0.0047833,0.0006167,0.0 023833,-0.00535
East_Asian:Han,0.0018182,-0.0443818,-0.0022,-0.0201727,0.0253727,0.0134273,0.0012364,-0.0020818,-0.0073455,-0.0017091,-0.0305364,-0.0047091,0.0048909,-0.0058909,-0.0031909,0.0009455,0.0013455,-0.0006818,-0.0016273,-0.0081727,0.0098091,0.0056273,0.0114455,-0.0010727,-0.0018636
Siberian:Even,0.0037,-0.0425333,0.0371,-0.0049,-0.0451,-0.0293667,0.0122333,0.0159,0.0160667,0.0143333,0.0 343,0.0052333,-0.0098333,0.0065333,-0.0117667,-0.0083333,0.0017333,0.0105667,0.0229333,0.0101667, 0.0404,-0.0366333,0.0059,0.0105667,0.0159
Amerindian:Karitiana,0.0051667,-0.0315167,0.0313833,0.03355,-0.0369333,-0.0048833,-0.1374667,-0.16575,-0.0075167,-0.0095167,0.0005833,-0.0018,-0.0011,0.01985,-0.0033667,0.0033333,0.00845,0.00205,8.33e-05,-0.0002833,-0.0044333,0.0088167,-0.0045,-0.0021,-0.0056667
Oceanian:Papuan,-0.00404,-0.02374,-0.06994,0.09574,0.06724,-0.18272,-0.00084,0.00304,-0.02018,-0.00656,-0.01164,0.00058,0.00094,-0.00226,0.00012,-0.00024,-0.00168,-0.00146,-0.00086,-0.00122,0.00188,0.00146,0.001,0.00152,0.00134
Sub_Saharan:Yoruba,-0.0553545,0.0061545,0.0058636,0.0051727,0.0001636, 0.0044727,-0.0189,0.0207,-0.0239,0.0179818,0.0028455,0.0005273,0.0155091,0.0 006909,0.0092273,-0.0072455,0.0054273,0.0003545,0.0047909,-0.0023909,0.0012455,0.0018727,-0.0014273,-0.0003909,-0.0003545
Red_Sea:BedouinA,0.0025111,0.0131556,-0.0126222,-0.0256222,-0.0045111,-0.0116,-0.0045556,-0.0020111,0.0114667,-0.0008889,0.0050333,-0.0071556,0.0166444,0.0003444,0.0011556,0.0053222,-0.0021,-0.0017667,-0.0027111,0.0066,0.0001667,0.0020444,0.0001556,0.0 014667,-0.0013333
Red_Sea:Yemenite_Amran,0.0040286,0.0133357,-0.0163143,-0.0314071,-0.0048286,-0.0151143,-0.0037143,-0.0033643,0.0220071,-0.0023357,0.0072357,-0.0153214,0.0312857,0.0038214,0.0029429,0.0130143,-0.0108429,0.0033571,0.0014571,0.0125571,0.00555,0. 0077,-0.0051357,0.0034643,-0.0039929
North_African:Moroccan_North,-0.0026333,0.0135222,-0.0008056,-0.0208667,0.0091167,-0.0114444,-0.0104056,0.0021889,0.0298167,0.0179611,0.0036389,-0.0043722,0.0125056,-0.0106889,0.0111556,-0.0079667,0.0009667,-0.0141944,-0.0324167,0.0074333,-0.0097722,-0.0280056,0.0173944,-0.0046278,0.0036722
North_African:Moroccan,-0.0075,0.0128222,-0.0034,-0.0219444,0.0068667,-0.0118111,-0.0118222,0.0042333,0.0270889,0.0133889,0.0058556,-0.0060222,0.0181556,-0.0105111,0.0120111,-0.0046667,-0.0021222,-0.0134444,-0.0305667,0.0075444,-0.0078889,-0.0238667,0.0169667,-0.0009333,0.0049444




[1] "distance%=0.709"

Portuguese

Atlantic,45.4
North_Sea,20.8
West_Med,12
North_African,9
East_Med,4.2
West_Asian,2.6
Red_Sea,2.4
Baltic,1.8
Sub_Saharan,0.6
East_Asian,0.4
Oceanian,0.4
South_Asian,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.7522"

Ruderico

Atlantic,64.6
North_Sea,14
North_African,8.2
West_Med,4.6
East_Med,4.4
West_Asian,1.4
East_Asian,1
Red_Sea,1
Siberian,0.4
Sub_Saharan,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.4592"

Lusitano

Atlantic,51.8
North_African,11.8
West_Med,11.2
North_Sea,9.8
Baltic,5.6
East_Med,4.4
West_Asian,1.8
East_Asian,1.4
Siberian,0.8
Sub_Saharan,0.8
Oceanian,0.4
Red_Sea,0.2


[1] "distance%=1.5534"

rxavierflima

Atlantic,47
North_Sea,17.4
West_Med,11.2
North_African,9.8
East_Med,6.8
Baltic,5
Siberian,1.2
Red_Sea,1
South_Asian,0.2
Sub_Saharan,0.2
West_Asian,0.2


[1] "distance%=1.1084"

Gil_Vicente

Atlantic,50
North_Sea,21
West_Med,8.4
East_Med,6.6
North_African,5
Baltic,3.2
Sub_Saharan,1.8
West_Asian,1.8
Oceanian,1
Red_Sea,0.6
Amerindian,0.2
East_Asian,0.2
South_Asian,0.2


[1] "distance%=1.498"

Defski

Atlantic,42.8
West_Med,16.8
North_Sea,13.8
North_African,10.2
East_Med,6.4
Baltic,4.8
East_Asian,2.4
Red_Sea,1.8
South_Asian,0.6
Amerindian,0.2
West_Asian,0.2


[1] "distance%=1.1598"

Azor

Atlantic,39.6
West_Med,15.8
North_Sea,15.6
East_Med,11.2
North_African,5.8
West_Asian,4.6
Sub_Saharan,2.6
Baltic,2.4
Red_Sea,1.6
Amerindian,0.6
Oceanian,0.2


[1] "distance%=1.2445"

Rui

Atlantic,47.8
North_Sea,20.2
North_African,9.4
East_Med,5.6
Baltic,4.6
Red_Sea,3.2
West_Med,3
Sub_Saharan,2
West_Asian,1.8
East_Asian,1.6
Amerindian,0.6
South_Asian,0.2



[1] "distance%=1.6301"

MrsRuderico

Atlantic,46
North_Sea,18.4
West_Med,13.8
North_African,12.2
East_Med,4.4
Red_Sea,1.8
South_Asian,1.4
Sub_Saharan,0.6
West_Asian,0.6
Siberian,0.4
Baltic,0.2
East_Asian,0.2


[1] "distance%=2.2807"

Trebaruna

Atlantic,57.2
North_Sea,14.4
West_Med,8.6
North_African,7.8
East_Med,3.4
Red_Sea,3.2
West_Asian,1.6
Baltic,1.2
Amerindian,1
Sub_Saharan,0.8
East_Asian,0.6
South_Asian,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.7823"

elisabetenjoaquim

Atlantic,40.2
North_Sea,25.2
North_African,8.8
West_Med,8.2
East_Med,6
Baltic,5
Red_Sea,3.6
East_Asian,1.2
West_Asian,0.8
Sub_Saharan,0.6
Amerindian,0.2
Oceanian,0.2


Espanhóis

[1] "distance%=1.2821"

Spanish_Galicia

Atlantic,44
North_Sea,19
West_Med,12.2
North_African,8.4
East_Med,5.2
Baltic,4.4
Red_Sea,4
West_Asian,1.2
South_Asian,0.8
East_Asian,0.6
Sub_Saharan,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.5727"

Spanish_Extremadura

Atlantic,45.4
North_Sea,15
West_Med,12
North_African,9.6
East_Med,6
Baltic,4.8
Red_Sea,2.8
West_Asian,1.8
South_Asian,1.4
Amerindian,0.4
Sub_Saharan,0.4
East_Asian,0.2
Oceanian,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.684"

Spanish_Andalucia

Atlantic,46
North_Sea,18.2
West_Med,15.2
East_Med,5.2
North_African,5.2
West_Asian,2.8
Baltic,2.2
Red_Sea,2.2
East_Asian,1.2
Sub_Saharan,1.2
Oceanian,0.4
Amerindian,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.8419"

Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon

Atlantic,50.4
North_Sea,17.2
West_Med,10.4
North_African,8.4
Baltic,4
East_Med,3.8
Red_Sea,2.4
West_Asian,1.6
South_Asian,1.2
East_Asian,0.4
Sub_Saharan,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.6563"

Spanish_Cantabria

Atlantic,54
North_Sea,20
West_Med,15.8
East_Med,4
North_African,2.6
Baltic,1.2
Oceanian,0.6
Red_Sea,0.6
West_Asian,0.6
East_Asian,0.4
South_Asian,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.6558"

Spanish_Aragon

Atlantic,54.6
North_Sea,19.8
West_Med,13
North_African,4
East_Med,3.4
Red_Sea,1.6
West_Asian,1.6
South_Asian,0.8
Baltic,0.4
Sub_Saharan,0.4
East_Asian,0.2
Siberian,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.4895"

Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha

Atlantic,55
North_Sea,16
West_Med,11.6
East_Med,6
North_African,3.8
Red_Sea,2
Baltic,1.8
West_Asian,1.6
Siberian,0.8
Sub_Saharan,0.6
South_Asian,0.4
East_Asian,0.2
Oceanian,0.2


[1] "distance%=1.1334"

Spanish_Valencia

Atlantic,74
North_Sea,8.6
East_Med,5.4
North_African,4
Baltic,1.8
Red_Sea,1.8
West_Asian,1.6
West_Med,1.4
Sub_Saharan,0.6
Siberian,0.4
Oceanian,0.2
South_Asian,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.6969"

Spanish_Murcia

Atlantic,42
West_Med,17
North_Sea,14.8
East_Med,7.4
Baltic,5.6
North_African,4.8
Red_Sea,2.8
East_Asian,2
Siberian,1
South_Asian,1
West_Asian,0.8
Amerindian,0.6
Sub_Saharan,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.7492"

Spanish_Pais_Vasco

Atlantic,88.4
North_Sea,8
West_Med,1.8
North_African,1
Siberian,0.6
East_Med,0.2



Estrangeiros

[1] "distance%=1.0265"

Italian_Bergamo

East_Med,30
Atlantic,23.2
North_Sea,22.6
West_Med,17
Baltic,4.2
West_Asian,1.4
Siberian,0.8
Sub_Saharan,0.8


[1] "distance%=0.9879"

Italian_Tuscan

East_Med,45.4
North_Sea,21
West_Med,13.2
Atlantic,13
West_Asian,4.4
Baltic,1.8
Siberian,0.6
Sub_Saharan,0.4
Oceanian,0.2


[1] "distance%=0.6624"

French

North_Sea,56.8
Atlantic,25.4
East_Med,5.2
West_Med,4.8
West_Asian,2
Baltic,1.8
North_African,1.4
Red_Sea,1.2
South_Asian,0.6
East_Asian,0.4
Siberian,0.4

Parece-me muito muito bem! Assim à primeira vista parece estar de acordo com os K13/k15 do GEDmatch.

rxavierflima
07-11-2019, 11:52 AM
Só uma coisa: a componente levantina (judeus, fenícios, siírios, etc) está inserida onde, East_Med? E a componente árabe, Red_Sea?

rxavierflima
07-11-2019, 12:02 PM
Só uma coisa: a componente levantina (judeus, fenícios, siírios, etc) está inserida onde, East_Med? E a componente árabe, Red_Sea?

Pergunto-me se essas duas componentes são mais altas nos portugueses do sul. Suponho que a Red_Sea seja. A East_Med não me cheira.

Seria útil ter um mapa de Portugal com as nossas origens assinaladas. Quem não fez a sua genealogia até 1800 devia pensar nisso.

Ruderico
07-11-2019, 12:06 PM
Só uma coisa: a componente levantina (judeus, fenícios, siírios, etc) está inserida onde, East_Med? E a componente árabe, Red_Sea?

Sim o East Med é uma referência do Líbano e Cipriota, o Red Sea é Beduíno. Acredito que haja alguma variação ao longo do país, mas pelos estudos e resultados que se viram até agora se calhar a variação pessoal pesa mais. Precisamos de mais pessoal para saber

Lusitano
07-11-2019, 08:16 PM
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 26.02
2 West_Med 22.23
3 North_Sea 19.85
4 East_Med 11.77
5 Eastern_Euro 5.49
6 Baltic 5.13
7 Northeast_African 3.2
8 West_Asian 3
9 Red_Sea 2.29
10 Oceanian 0.52
11 Siberian 0.5


O meu K15 para comparação.

[1] "distance%=1.4592"

Lusitano

Atlantic,51.8
North_African,11.8
West_Med,11.2
North_Sea,9.8
Baltic,5.6
East_Med,4.4
West_Asian,1.8
East_Asian,1.4
Siberian,0.8
Sub_Saharan,0.8
Oceanian,0.4
Red_Sea,0.2

Lusitano
07-11-2019, 08:18 PM
Algo diferente do K15 mas gostei da versão do Ruderico. O que acham que poderiamos adicionar para conseguir ficar com uma distance\fit inferior a 1 nas samples testadas?

Edit: Talvez adicionar uma sample de Mari para uma componente de Eastern Euro?

Ruderico
07-12-2019, 08:06 AM
Acho que as fits já estão bastante decentes para modelos a usar averages, a fit da referência Portuguesa é óptima. Nós é que temos sempre distâncias um pouco piores - uns mais que outros - e não há muito a fazer. Se quiseres podes tentar usar amostras individuais que assentem melhor a uma ou outra pessoa, mas isso acaba por enviesar o resultado (o algorítmo usado pelo randwulf é óptimo para isso). De resto acho que só experimentando com outras referências para cada componente, mas é um bocado tentativa e erro

rxavierflima
07-12-2019, 08:08 AM
[1] "distance%=1.5534"

rxavierflima

Atlantic,47
North_Sea,17.4
West_Med,11.2
North_African,9.8
East_Med,6.8
Baltic,5
Siberian,1.2
Red_Sea,1
South_Asian,0.2
Sub_Saharan,0.2
West_Asian,0.2



K15: K13

#Population Percent
1. North_Atlantic = 38.94
2. West_Med = 24.92
3. East_Med = 17.17
4. Baltic = 12.88
5. Northeast_African = 2.37
6. Red_Sea = 1.4
7. South_Asian = 0.87
8. West_Asian = 0.72
9. East_Asian = 0.68
10. Oceanian = 0.06


Pareceu-me bem à primeira vista mas não coincide exactamente com o K15.


EDIT: enganei-me, postei os valores do K13. :frusty:

Ruderico
07-12-2019, 08:23 AM
É normal, não são bem a mesma coisa, um é o PCA em si (K15) outro é um modelo feito a partir de um PCA (G25) - tipo oracle. Por exemplo se mudarmos a referência do Atlantic para, sei lá, Irish e Scottish, já o resultado final vai ser muito diferente porque o Atlantic cai muito para todos nós e algo tem de subir para o compensar

Lusitano
07-12-2019, 11:29 PM
,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Iberian:Basque_French,0.128051,0.1520246,0.0551727 ,0.0128231,0.0564104,0.0025099,-0.00141,0.0033229,0.0305968,0.0412036,-0.0092724,0.0103408,-0.0209761,-0.0140237,0.0132192,-0.0019359,-0.0119173,0.0030278,-0.0007165,-0.0044144,0.010157,0.0024855,-0.0086397,-0.0091698,7.18e-05
Italian:Italian_South,0.1078472,0.1459822,-0.0048082,-0.0390022,0.0117712,-0.0115742,-0.0001762,-0.002942,0.0014315,0.0193627,-0.001989,0.005133,-0.0037165,-0.0018232,-0.0059717,-0.0037785,0.0005218,0.0010768,0.0051222,-0.000344,-0.0034628,0.0008655,0.001972,0.000693,0.0015868
Germanic:Norwegian,0.1338234,0.1279567,0.0679357,0 .0534334,0.0386443,0.0210366,0.0041964,0.0062964,0 .0057267,0.0003906,-0.0037349,0.0036823,-0.007518,-0.011698,0.0210754,0.0093949,-0.0054203,0.0026061,0.0006823,0.0007503,0.005633,0 .0055643,0.0042784,0.0177304,0.0010947
Baltic:Lithuanian,0.1371568,0.127703,0.0846638,0.0 816382,0.0467778,0.0300505,0.009518,0.0169608,0.00 20453,-0.028019,-0.0071045,-0.0112402,0.0237112,0.0334422,-0.0093308,-0.0002983,-0.0041395,-0.001457,0.0004712,0.0034078,-0.0032132,-0.0038332,0.0104758,-0.0098205,-8.97e-05
Eastern_European:Mari,0.1013024,-0.0507766,0.0928472,0.0614992,-0.029667,0.0006692,0.0115628,0.0184148,-0.0037224,-0.0393264,0.028288,-0.0152266,0.0344596,-0.03947,-0.0348802,-0.02376,-0.0049806,-0.008032,-0.038765,-0.0317402,0.0163212,0.0052924,-0.0506792,0.010869,-0.0021794
Sardinian:Sardinian,0.1206524,0.1679686,0.0276806,-0.0515508,0.0603188,-0.0224786,-0.003478,0.004292,0.0427048,0.0798558,-0.0020784,0.0158856,-0.0270266,-0.0131842,-0.0132192,-0.004614,0.0120476,-0.0013176,0.0017596,-0.012931,-0.0050908,-0.0042044,-0.0097122,-0.021087,0.0008382
Caucasian:Abkhasian,0.1089858,0.1152626,-0.0468571,-0.0399712,-0.039892,-0.0064146,0.01131,-0.0063169,-0.0616896,-0.0225286,-0.0023951,0.0092729,-0.0233769,0.0038362,0.0027654,-0.0233524,0.0111314,-0.005226,-0.011187,0.0195874,0.0137569,0.0027822,0.0033278,-0.0084799,-0.0015267
Berber:Moroccan,-0.0853671,0.1302133,-0.0128221,-0.0708806,0.0211321,-0.03294,-0.0277833,0.0097687,0.0554032,0.0243993,0.0095087,-0.0090252,0.0269902,-0.0144658,0.0163016,-0.0061874,-0.0027669,-0.0170326,-0.0384216,0.0094351,-0.0098438,-0.0295119,0.0209111,-0.0011248,0.0059207
Jewish:Lebanese_Druze,0.00739,0.01383,-0.01317,-0.0217,-0.00509,-0.00903,-0.00103,-0.00231,-0.00113,0.00417,0.00317,-0.00202,0.00611,0.00147,-0.00506,0.00465,-0.0016,0.00066,0.00197,-0.00073,-0.00106,0.00157,2e-04,0.00209,-0.00049
Arab:Yemenite_Amran,0.0040286,0.0133357,-0.0163143,-0.0314071,-0.0048286,-0.0151143,-0.0037143,-0.0033643,0.0220071,-0.0023357,0.0072357,-0.0153214,0.0312857,0.0038214,0.0029429,0.0130143,-0.0108429,0.0033571,0.0014571,0.0125571,0.00555,0. 0077,-0.0051357,0.0034643,-0.0039929
Indian:Chamar,0.0033333,-0.0095,-0.04485,0.0392167,-0.0232833,0.0237333,-0.0013833,0.0053167,0.029,0.0209833,-0.0031667,-0.00075,0.001,0.00325,-0.007,-0.0095667,0.00585,-0.00105,-0.0031167,0.0052,0.0017333,0.0047833,0.0006167,0.0 023833,-0.00535
Chinese:Han,0.0018182,-0.0443818,-0.0022,-0.0201727,0.0253727,0.0134273,0.0012364,-0.0020818,-0.0073455,-0.0017091,-0.0305364,-0.0047091,0.0048909,-0.0058909,-0.0031909,0.0009455,0.0013455,-0.0006818,-0.0016273,-0.0081727,0.0098091,0.0056273,0.0114455,-0.0010727,-0.0018636
West_African:Yoruba,-0.0553545,0.0061545,0.0058636,0.0051727,0.0001636, 0.0044727,-0.0189,0.0207,-0.0239,0.0179818,0.0028455,0.0005273,0.0155091,0.0 006909,0.0092273,-0.0072455,0.0054273,0.0003545,0.0047909,-0.0023909,0.0012455,0.0018727,-0.0014273,-0.0003909,-0.0003545
East_African:Ethiopian_Gumuz,-0.5256728,0.0489145,-0.0071653,-0.0124893,-0.0007693,-0.0077625,0.0057967,-0.0019615,0.0953762,-0.1010805,-0.0201362,0.017984,-0.0375615,-0.0020873,0.0160377,-0.020463,0.0244687,0.0021115,0.0144133,-0.0176543,-0.0008735,0.0032767,-0.0057925,-0.0032133,0.004271
Amerindian:Karitiana,0.0051667,-0.0315167,0.0313833,0.03355,-0.0369333,-0.0048833,-0.1374667,-0.16575,-0.0075167,-0.0095167,0.0005833,-0.0018,-0.0011,0.01985,-0.0033667,0.0033333,0.00845,0.00205,8.33e-05,-0.0002833,-0.0044333,0.0088167,-0.0045,-0.0021,-0.0056667
Papuan:Papuan,-0.0459844,-0.2410866,-0.2637584,0.3092414,0.2069308,-0.509589,-0.001974,0.0070152,-0.041273,-0.0119546,-0.018902,0.000869,0.0013974,-0.00311,0.0001628,-0.0003186,-0.0021906,-0.0018498,-0.001081,-0.0015256,0.0023458,0.0018052,0.0012324,0.0018314, 0.0016048
Siberian:Even,0.0421147,-0.4319387,0.1399117,-0.015827,-0.138795,-0.0819007,0.0287493,0.036691,0.0328603,0.0261203,0 .0556993,0.007843,-0.0146187,0.0089913,-0.0159697,-0.011049,0.0022597,0.0133867,0.0288267,0.0127147,0 .050411,-0.045298,0.0072717,0.0127327,0.0190403


Outra calculadora que eu fiz. Em alguns dá uma distance aceitável, em outros nem por isso...




[1] "distance%=1.832"

Viriato

Iberian,56.4
Italian,23.4
Berber,9
Baltic,7.2
Sardinian,2.6
Caucasian,0.8
Siberian,0.4
Papuan,0.2

[1] "distance%=1.7244"

Gil_Vicente

Iberian,55.2
Italian,21.4
Germanic,11.6
Berber,7
Baltic,1.4
Caucasian,1.4
East_African,1.2
Papuan,0.8

[1] "distance%=2.3274"

Ruderico_scaled

Iberian,70
Italian,18.4
Berber,11
East_African,0.4
Germanic,0.2

distance%=2.0283"

rxavierflima

Iberian,46.4
Italian,18.2
Sardinian,10.6
Germanic,9.2
Berber,7.8
Baltic,7.6
Siberian,0.2

Magovalle
07-21-2019, 08:03 PM
Hola, amigos. He sacado la K17 del modelo de Lusitano. Coordenadas escaladas y penalización estándar (0.001). Este es el resultado:

[1] "distance%=2.0317"

Martin_scaled

Iberian,72.8
Italian,16.8
Berber,2.2
Caucasian,1.8
Jewish,1.6
Arab,1.4
Chinese,0.8
Eastern_European,0.8
Amerindian,0.6
Sardinian,0.6
West_African,0.6

Un saludo

Magovalle
07-21-2019, 08:06 PM
Hola, de nuevo. Usando el modelo de Ruderico del Bronce Tardío. Coordenadas sin escalar y penalización estándar (0.001). Este es el resultado:

[1] "distance%=1.3169"

Martin

Iberia_North_BA,54
Scotland_LBA,31.4
Mycenaean,7.4
Morocco_EN,4.4
ARM_LBA,2.8

Un saludo

Magovalle
07-21-2019, 08:08 PM
Si uso el modelo de Ruderico con Referencias Medias. Coordenadas sin escalar y penalización estándar (0.001). Este es el resultado:

[1] "distance%=1.322"

Martin

Hallstatt_Celt,50.2
Iberia_BA,31.6
North_African,8.8
Armenia_MBA,4.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3.6
Mycenaean,1.2

Un saludo

Magovalle
07-21-2019, 08:10 PM
Con el modelo personalizado de Ruderico. Coordenadas sin escalar y penalización estándar (0.001):

[1] "distance%=1.5845"

Martin

Celtiberian,82.4
North_African,6.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,5
Armenia_LBA,3.8
Levant_Roman,2.2
Yoruba,0.2

Un saludo

Magovalle
07-21-2019, 08:12 PM
Y finalmente con el modelo de K14 (Ruderico). Coordenadas sin escalar y penalización estándar (0.001):

[1] "distance%=1.118"

Martin

Atlantic,71.6
North_Sea,11.6
North_African,6.4
East_Med,4.4
Red_Sea,2
Siberian,1.4
West_Asian,1.4
East_Asian,0.6
Sub_Saharan,0.4
Amerindian,0.2

Un saludo

Ruderico
08-12-2019, 09:17 AM
Lembrei-me que há uma amostra interessante que não corri nos meus modelos. Esta amostra é do Zanzibar, supostamente datada do ano 800DC, mas..



[1] "distance%=2.2142"

Zanzibar:I0588

Celtiberian,75
North_African,9.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,7.6
Armenia_LBA,5.2
Yoruba,2.2
Visigothic,0.4
Levant_Roman,0.2


[1] "distance%=1.758"

MrsRuderico

Celtiberian,73
North_African,13.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,5.6
Levant_Roman,3.8
Armenia_LBA,2.2
Visigothic,1.6


[1] "distance%=1.7161"

Lusitano

Celtiberian,74.8
North_African,10.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,7.4
Armenia_LBA,4.4
Levant_Roman,1.6
Yoruba,1


[1] "distance%=1.0434"

Portuguese

Celtiberian,66.4
North_African,10.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,9.6
Visigothic,9
Armenia_LBA,2.6
Levant_Roman,1.6




[1] "distance%=1.9596"

Zanzibar:I0588

Iberia_BA,45.6
Hallstatt_Celt,13.8
Nordic_BA,12.8
Mycenaean,10.8
North_African,9
Armenia_MBA,5
Yoruba,3


[1] "distance%=1.4912"

MrsRuderico

Iberia_BA,38.4
Hallstatt_Celt,18.8
Nordic_BA,15.4
North_African,14.4
Mycenaean,9.4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,1.8
Armenia_MBA,1.2
Yoruba,0.6


[1] "distance%=1.5666"

Lusitano

Hallstatt_Celt,54
Iberia_BA,20.6
North_African,10.8
Mycenaean,6
Armenia_MBA,5
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.6
Yoruba,1


[1] "distance%=0.9978"

Portuguese

Iberia_BA,31.2
Hallstatt_Celt,27
Nordic_BA,13.8
North_African,11.4
Mycenaean,10.2
Armenia_MBA,4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.4



[1] "distance%=1.7691"

Zanzibar:I0588

Atlantic,43
North_Sea,20.2
West_Med,18.4
North_African,8.8
East_Med,3.2
East_Asian,2.2
Baltic,1.4
West_Asian,1.2
Sub_Saharan,1
Oceanian,0.6


[1] "distance%=1.6113"

MrsRuderico

Atlantic,44.2
North_Sea,19.4
West_Med,14
North_African,13.6
East_Med,4
Red_Sea,1.8
South_Asian,1.2
Siberian,0.6
Sub_Saharan,0.4
West_Asian,0.4
Baltic,0.2
East_Asian,0.2


[1] "distance%=1.4695"

Lusitano

Atlantic,50.8
North_Sea,11.8
West_Med,11.6
North_African,11.2
Baltic,4.6
East_Med,4.6
West_Asian,1.4
East_Asian,1
Red_Sea,1
Siberian,0.6
Sub_Saharan,0.6
Oceanian,0.4
South_Asian,0.4


[1] "distance%=0.6999"

Portuguese

Atlantic,44.6
North_Sea,22.2
West_Med,12.2
North_African,8.6
East_Med,5.8
West_Asian,2.2
Red_Sea,1.8
Baltic,1.2
East_Asian,0.4
South_Asian,0.4
Sub_Saharan,0.4
Oceanian,0.2


https://i.postimg.cc/TdzmngcQ/zanzibar.png



Parece-me um dos nossos (tendo em conta nos níveis de North African).
O que acham? Má datação, ou um Ibérico Ocidental "perdido" nas costas de África, talvez comerciante do Al-Andaluz ou alguém feito escravo durante raides costeiros?



Edit: Acrescentei samples, meti a da minha patroa que acho que mostra melhor a variação e semelhança

Ruderico
08-12-2019, 11:47 AM
Já agora, reparei que o meu "modelo da Idade do Ferro" não dá grande coisa de germânico ao nosso amigo do Zanzibar, apesar de os outros darem, e de ele plotar bastante a noroeste do cluster Português, pode ser uma questão da referência Gótica não ser grande coisa para ele e para outros indivíduos. Como já disse algumas vezes, acho que os meus modelos não são muito estáveis nas percentagens de germânico.

Para tentar melhorar a situação (ou seja, arranjar uma outra referência que apareça nos resultados e ao mesmo tempo melhore a fit) decidi meter uma mais contemporânea do que a Visigótica, e meter algo que supostamente há-de ser hardcore germânico, neste caso o average das amostras da Idade do Ferro da Suécia (SWE_IA).
E aqui é que fiquei um bocado espantado, não por causa do resultado dele, mas do de alguns de nós.




No caso do nosso amigo a fit é marginalmente melhor (se correr o modelo várias vezes até há fits piores), mas a percentagem de germânico não sobe grande coisa.

[1] "distance%=2.2142"

Zanzibar:I0588

Celtiberian,75
North_African,9.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,7.6
Armenia_LBA,5.2
Yoruba,2.2
Visigothic,0.4
Levant_Roman,0.2


[1] "distance%=2.1993"

Zanzibar:I0588

Celtiberian,71
North_African,10.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,10.4
Armenia_LBA,4
SWE_IA,2
Yoruba,2


Mas o giro vem agora, alguns ficam com percentagens bastante respeitáveis, e a fit melhora substancialmente. Não pude deixar de reparar que as pessoas do norte (vamos considerar meio-Douro meio-Viseu - eu - "norte" para este caso) melhoraram todas os seus resultados, mas não só eles.


[1] "distance%=1.935"

Ruderico

Celtiberian,80.2
North_African,9.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,5.6
Armenia_LBA,4.6
Yoruba,0.2
Visigothic,0 (tive de acrescentar porque não aparecia)


[1] "distance%=1.8378"

Ruderico

Celtiberian,67
SWE_IA,14.4
North_African,10.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,6.2
Armenia_LBA,1.2
Levant_Roman,1



[1] "distance%=1.7518"

rxavierflima

Celtiberian,71.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,11.2
North_African,10.4
Armenia_LBA,4.4
Visigothic,2.2


[1] "distance%=1.5659"

rxavierflima

Celtiberian,58.6
SWE_IA,17.2
North_African,11.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,11.2
Armenia_LBA,1.2
Levant_Roman,0.4



[1] "distance%=1.0936"

elisabetenjoaquim

Celtiberian,60.4
Visigothic,18
North_African,9.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,8.2
Levant_Roman,1.8
Armenia_LBA,1.6
Yoruba,0.6


[1] "distance%=1.0038"

elisabetenjoaquim

Celtiberian,57.6
SWE_IA,16
North_African,11.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,10
Levant_Roman,3.6
Armenia_LBA,1
Yoruba,0.6



[1] "distance%=1.5646"

Rui

Celtiberian,65.8
North_African,10
Roman_Imperial_proxy,7.2
Visigothic,6.2
Armenia_LBA,5
Levant_Roman,3.4
Yoruba,2.4


[1] "distance%=1.3061"

Rui

Celtiberian,52.6
SWE_IA,19.2
North_African,10.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,7.4
Armenia_LBA,4.4
Levant_Roman,4
Yoruba,1.6




[1] "distance%=1.7194"

Lusitano

Celtiberian,74.8
North_African,10.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,8
Armenia_LBA,4.6
Levant_Roman,1.4
Yoruba,1
Visigothic,0 (tive de acrescentar porque não aparecia)


[1] "distance%=1.6247"

Lusitano

Celtiberian,63.8
North_African,12
SWE_IA,10.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,9
Armenia_LBA,3.6
Levant_Roman,0.8
Yoruba,0.2




[1] "distance%=1.6144"

Gil_Vicente

Celtiberian,74
Armenia_LBA,6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,5.4
North_African,5.2
Levant_Roman,3.4
Visigothic,3.4
Yoruba,2.6


[1] "distance%=1.4774"

Gil_Vicente

Celtiberian,61
SWE_IA,15
Roman_Imperial_proxy,7.6
North_African,5.6
Armenia_LBA,4.8
Levant_Roman,3.4
Yoruba,2.6




[1] "distance%=1.0434"

Portuguese

Celtiberian,66.4
North_African,10.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,9.6
Visigothic,9
Armenia_LBA,2.6
Levant_Roman,1.6


[1] "distance%=1.0192"

Portuguese

Celtiberian,64.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,13
North_African,11.2
SWE_IA,7.6
Armenia_LBA,1.8
Levant_Roman,1.6



O que acham que isto significa? Por um lado tenho dificuldades em acreditar, porque no meu caso em particular sempre pareci muito pouco germânico (Celtic VS Germanic PCA)..mas a fit de facto melhorou bastante para todos nós, para além de fazer historicamente sentido, e a melhor fit não deve ser ignorada.


Update: Falei com o David, ele disse que não tem bem a certeza do que realmente são as amostras SWE_IA porque aparecem muito "norte atlânticas" (palavras dele, eu entendo como "british-like" em vez de Escandinavas) portanto a razão pela qual melhoram a fit pode não ter nenhuma relação com drift germânico que andei aqui à procura. Mais um tiro ao lado lol

Gil Vicente
08-12-2019, 07:00 PM
Zanzibar 800 dC? Falamos deste Zanzibar?

http://www.stylehiclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/WhereIsZanzibar-copy.jpg

Tendo em conta que a conquista islâmica da peninsula ibérica começou em 711, em 800 ainda estavamos em guerra:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qF4bLPGdg0w/TmZTDgKhoXI/AAAAAAAACGE/MM5Snj-oftM/s1600/800px-Al-Andalus_%2528french%2529.png

Não consigo conceber o que faria um suposto iberico numa ilha ao largo da costa da Tânzania no ano 800 :confused:

Ruderico
08-12-2019, 07:56 PM
Zanzibar 800 dC? Falamos deste Zanzibar?

Tendo em conta que a conquista islâmica da peninsula ibérica começou em 711, em 800 ainda estavamos em guerra:
Não consigo conceber o que faria um suposto iberico numa ilha ao largo da costa da Tânzania no ano 800 :confused:

Sim, esse mesmo Zanzibar.
Havia comercio Árabe/Islâmico entre a costa de África e o Golfo Pérsico e no Oceano Índico, o tipo poderia ser um Muladi (ou Mozárabe) que estava metido nisso, ou talvez um escravo? Ou então houve erro de datação/labeling e estamos perante um Português de 1500/1600, mas não sei até que ponto erros deste tipo são comuns

RCO
08-12-2019, 11:16 PM
O que eu observo é que há certos tipos de mistura portuguesa ou do Ocidente Ibérico reconhecíveis em várias calculadoras, integralmente ou parcialmente. Eu não tenho preferências nas várias calculadoras existentes, eu gosto das médias de todas. Outra questão é o tipo de misturas nos últimos 1000 ou 500 anos podem fazer diferença em termos da sua generalidade portuguesa. Uma genealogia muito diversificada e transatlântica, nas várias regiões e portos, ou uma genealogia mais local e endogâmica em uma pequena região rural, as origens podem apresentar nuances. Acredito que por volta do ano 800 já havia uma população próxima da mistura portuguesa na região entre o Minho e o Douro, até mesmo porque muitas linhagens masculinas portuguesas do Minho (como https://www.yfull.com/sc/tree/J-FGC6035/ ) já se ramificavam naquela conjuntura de guerra e expansão.

Ruderico
08-13-2019, 08:57 AM
Sinceramente acho que em termos de PCAs a única coisa que eu vejo ser "caracteristicamente Portuguesa" são os níveis de norte Africano que andam ali sensivelmente entre os 9 e 11%, como já se sabia (https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-N4Qt1Uu23XM/Wr8a2yJ7iTI/AAAAAAAADy0/5m9VSUHNE54SN0iq8dwj2jEjLAm9peEJQCEwYBhgL/s1600/NMorocco.png), o resto pode variar muito e depende do indivíduo. Também vejo pessoas da mesma região com resultados relativamente distinctos, por exemplo tenho no dataset 4 Portugueses de Castelo Branco.
O mesmo pode ser observado nas novas amostras Espanholas do G25, no plot que mostrei o cluster a vermelho é o da Catalunha e como podes ver, apesar de entrar dentro do cluster Francês (também por culpa de um indivíduo em particular, que se calhar vou filtrar por ser outlier), há quem plote muito a norte e outros muito a sul. Em Portugal vai ser a mesma coisa, apesar da minha suspeita é de plotarmos geralmente mais a sul porque somos menos semelhantes aos Bascos que a generalidade dos Espanhóis. Podem haver tendências regionais, eu concordo que em média será de esperar que as pessoas de zonas costeiras (e talvez do sul) tenham uma genealogia mais diversificada, mas ainda assim, em termos de PCAs e seus modelos, a sobreposição entre todas as regiões será elevada.


Isto não vai contra o facto de todos partilharmos um grande número de antepassados, como o estudo que foi "pré-publicado" há pouco tempo mostra - apesar de só terem recolhido amostras de Lisboa e Porto, o que foi um erro a meu ver por serem as grandes metrópoles, preferia ver regiões mais isoladas. Quanto ao ano 800, o que eu vi das amostras do Olalde é que as medievais Espanholas já mostram um perfil indistinguível dos modernos, acredito que o mesmo se passe em Portugal, inclusivamente acho que os tais níveis de norte Africano não hão-de fugir muito do que temos hoje. Aliás, se esse tal Ibérico do Zanzibar for mesmo do ano 800, como o Pontus Skoglund o identificou, então só prova que desde lá para cá pouco mudou. O que eu queria saber é se diferentes influências Europeias tiveram impacto em certas zonas devido a repopulações durante a Reconquista ou outra coisa qualquer (a Catalunha é um bom local para se estudar isso).


Já agora, um dos membros Espanhois ontem publicou um artigo giro (https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/D1ACAEB6B725EA24BAEFF9BB6716C0FA/S0003598X19000425a.pdf/dressing_the_sacrifice_textiles_textile_production _and_the_sacrificial_economy_at_casas_del_turunuel o_in_fifthcentury_bc_iberia.pdf) sobre um achado da Extremadura Espanhola. Vou citar umas coisitas:

The site’s material culture and architecture more closely resemble Phoenician rituals and practices, with which the inhabitants of the Iberian Peninsula were familiar through interre-gional trade routes. Inscriptions from Carthage and Marseilles indicate the practice of zbḥ, which simultaneously translates as ‘offering’ and ‘sacrifice’ in the Phoenician and Punic world (Amadasi2003:49–51). Such rituals included a banquet during which meat, cereals,oil and wine were consumed, animals were slaughtered to honour the gods, and preciousobjects, such as textiles and garments, were consecrated. All these elements have beenfound at Casas del Turuñuelo, including ivory plaques with gold appliqués of clear Eastern influence (Rodríguez-González & Celestino2017: 190).

The association of linen and wool textiles, and linen yarn and flaxfibre—all probablylocally made—with veryfine Punic glassware in the immediate vicinity of the sacrificed domestic animals, suggests their deliberate deposition as part of a Phoenician-Punic-type sacrifice. Such rituals are well attested in the Iberian Peninsula (Arruda & Celestino2009;Escacena & Coto2010) due to the establishment of trade with the Phoenicians since the ninth century BC. Casas del Turuñuelo, however, is the only site in the Western Mediterranean that has so far provided combined material evidence for animal sacrifice, foodand liquid consumption and the consecration of precious textiles and objects described in Near Eastern sources and Western epigraphy as the aforementioned ‘zbḥ’(Amadasi2003:49–51).

Se calhar aqueles indivíduos do paper do Olalde com níveis elevados de ascendência norte Africana já cá estavam há séculos antes de qualquer Romano meter os pés na península. Talvez a razão pela qual os Ibéricos ocidentais têm mais disso pode ser algo vindo ainda deste período, em especial tendo em conta a navegação pela costa ocidental Ibérica e a relativa facilidade de movimentos ao longo de Portugal, que não é particularmente acidentado nas zonas mais próximas da costa. Isto também pode ter tido influência na divisão entre o sul/ocidente mais urbanizado (Tartessos, Turduli, etc) e o interior/norte mais conservador e menos desenvolvido durante o Bronze Final e na Idade do Ferro (Lusitanos, etc)

Magovalle
08-13-2019, 10:56 PM
Já agora, reparei que o meu "modelo da Idade do Ferro" não dá grande coisa de germânico ao nosso amigo do Zanzibar, apesar de os outros darem, e de ele plotar bastante a noroeste do cluster Português, pode ser uma questão da referência Gótica não ser grande coisa para ele e para outros indivíduos. Como já disse algumas vezes, acho que os meus modelos não são muito estáveis nas percentagens de germânico.

Para tentar melhorar a situação (ou seja, arranjar uma outra referência que apareça nos resultados e ao mesmo tempo melhore a fit) decidi meter uma mais contemporânea do que a Visigótica, e meter algo que supostamente há-de ser hardcore germânico, neste caso o average das amostras da Idade do Ferro da Suécia (SWE_IA).
E aqui é que fiquei um bocado espantado, não por causa do resultado dele, mas do de alguns de nós.




No caso do nosso amigo a fit é marginalmente melhor (se correr o modelo várias vezes até há fits piores), mas a percentagem de germânico não sobe grande coisa.

[1] "distance%=2.2142"

Zanzibar:I0588

Celtiberian,75
North_African,9.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,7.6
Armenia_LBA,5.2
Yoruba,2.2
Visigothic,0.4
Levant_Roman,0.2


[1] "distance%=2.1993"

Zanzibar:I0588

Celtiberian,71
North_African,10.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,10.4
Armenia_LBA,4
SWE_IA,2
Yoruba,2


Mas o giro vem agora, alguns ficam com percentagens bastante respeitáveis, e a fit melhora substancialmente. Não pude deixar de reparar que as pessoas do norte (vamos considerar meio-Douro meio-Viseu - eu - "norte" para este caso) melhoraram todas os seus resultados, mas não só eles.


[1] "distance%=1.935"

Ruderico

Celtiberian,80.2
North_African,9.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,5.6
Armenia_LBA,4.6
Yoruba,0.2
Visigothic,0 (tive de acrescentar porque não aparecia)


[1] "distance%=1.8378"

Ruderico

Celtiberian,67
SWE_IA,14.4
North_African,10.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,6.2
Armenia_LBA,1.2
Levant_Roman,1



[1] "distance%=1.7518"

rxavierflima

Celtiberian,71.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,11.2
North_African,10.4
Armenia_LBA,4.4
Visigothic,2.2


[1] "distance%=1.5659"

rxavierflima

Celtiberian,58.6
SWE_IA,17.2
North_African,11.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,11.2
Armenia_LBA,1.2
Levant_Roman,0.4



[1] "distance%=1.0936"

elisabetenjoaquim

Celtiberian,60.4
Visigothic,18
North_African,9.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,8.2
Levant_Roman,1.8
Armenia_LBA,1.6
Yoruba,0.6


[1] "distance%=1.0038"

elisabetenjoaquim

Celtiberian,57.6
SWE_IA,16
North_African,11.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,10
Levant_Roman,3.6
Armenia_LBA,1
Yoruba,0.6



[1] "distance%=1.5646"

Rui

Celtiberian,65.8
North_African,10
Roman_Imperial_proxy,7.2
Visigothic,6.2
Armenia_LBA,5
Levant_Roman,3.4
Yoruba,2.4


[1] "distance%=1.3061"

Rui

Celtiberian,52.6
SWE_IA,19.2
North_African,10.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,7.4
Armenia_LBA,4.4
Levant_Roman,4
Yoruba,1.6




[1] "distance%=1.7194"

Lusitano

Celtiberian,74.8
North_African,10.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,8
Armenia_LBA,4.6
Levant_Roman,1.4
Yoruba,1
Visigothic,0 (tive de acrescentar porque não aparecia)


[1] "distance%=1.6247"

Lusitano

Celtiberian,63.8
North_African,12
SWE_IA,10.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,9
Armenia_LBA,3.6
Levant_Roman,0.8
Yoruba,0.2




[1] "distance%=1.6144"

Gil_Vicente

Celtiberian,74
Armenia_LBA,6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,5.4
North_African,5.2
Levant_Roman,3.4
Visigothic,3.4
Yoruba,2.6


[1] "distance%=1.4774"

Gil_Vicente

Celtiberian,61
SWE_IA,15
Roman_Imperial_proxy,7.6
North_African,5.6
Armenia_LBA,4.8
Levant_Roman,3.4
Yoruba,2.6




[1] "distance%=1.0434"

Portuguese

Celtiberian,66.4
North_African,10.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,9.6
Visigothic,9
Armenia_LBA,2.6
Levant_Roman,1.6


[1] "distance%=1.0192"

Portuguese

Celtiberian,64.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,13
North_African,11.2
SWE_IA,7.6
Armenia_LBA,1.8
Levant_Roman,1.6



O que acham que isto significa? Por um lado tenho dificuldades em acreditar, porque no meu caso em particular sempre pareci muito pouco germânico (Celtic VS Germanic PCA)..mas a fit de facto melhorou bastante para todos nós, para além de fazer historicamente sentido, e a melhor fit não deve ser ignorada.


Update: Falei com o David, ele disse que não tem bem a certeza do que realmente são as amostras SWE_IA porque aparecem muito "norte atlânticas" (palavras dele, eu entendo como "british-like" em vez de Escandinavas) portanto a razão pela qual melhoram a fit pode não ter nenhuma relação com drift germânico que andei aqui à procura. Mais um tiro ao lado lol

My results with ur new model (SWE_IA instead of Visigothic). Unscaled with pen=0.001

[1] "distance%=1.5016"

Martin

Celtiberian,71.8
SWE_IA,8.8
North_African,8.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,4.8
Armenia_LBA,3.6
Levant_Roman,2.4

Take care,

Best,

Martin

Gil Vicente
08-25-2019, 02:31 PM
Já viram estas spreadsheets?

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?17683-Are-there-updated-G25-modern-scaled-and-unscaled-spreadsheets&p=594319&viewfull=1#post594319

Penso que este é o meu melhor fit até agora (moderns.txt, coordenadas escaladas e pen=0):


[1] "distance%=0.5198"

Gil_Vicente

Basque_French_HGDP01365,13.6
Swiss_French_Swiss_French8,9.2
Spanish_Pais_Vasco_HG01516,7.4
Irish_Irish27,6.4
Basque_French_HGDP01362,6
Irish_Irish2,4.6
Italian_Abruzzo_ItalyAbruzzo9,4.4
German_German33,4.2
Sardinian_HGDP01073,3.8
Sardinian_HGDP01075,3.8
French_French24,3.6
Spanish_Girona_DAN072,3.4
Belgian_Belgium10,3
Irish_Irish24,2.6
Swiss_French_Swiss_French3,2.4
Iraqi_Jew_IraqiJew4291,1.8
Italian_Jew_ItalyJew3,1.6
Sardinian_HGDP01066,1.6
Spanish_Eivissa_EIV014_2,1.6
Italian_Abruzzo_ItalyAbruzzo23,1
Esan_Nigeria_HG02974,0.8
Iranian_Lor_LORII36,0.8
Moroccan_South_MOU4,0.8
Syrian_Ber1AH252,0.8
Berber_Tunisia_Chen_T13,0.6
Iranian_Jew_IranianJew1143,0.6
Spanish_Barcelones_SER015,0.6
Spanish_Catalunya_Central_CAL107,0.6
Berber_MAR_ERR_BerE14,0.4
Berber_MAR_ERR_BerE9,0.4
Berber_MAR_TIZ_BerT4,0.4
Iranian_Mazandarani_GMII79,0.4
Mandenka_B_Mandenka-3,0.4
Moroccan_North_MCH11,0.4
Mozabite_HGDP01257,0.4
Papuan_HGDP00552,0.4
Saharawi_SAH10,0.4
Spanish_Cantabria_HG01512,0.4
Armenian_GS000035124,0.2
Assyrian_Assyrian165,0.2
Basque_Spanish_BAS33,0.2
Berber_Tunisia_Chen_T19,0.2
Dutch_Netherlands19,0.2
Dutch_Netherlands37,0.2
Esan_Nigeria_HG02923,0.2
Ezid_EZI-013,0.2
Gambian_HG02573,0.2
Greek_Trabzon_G25009,0.2
Irish_Irish25,0.2
Irish_Irish45,0.2
Italian_Jew_ItalyJew4,0.2
Moroccan_North_MNA4,0.2
Papuan_HGDP00540,0.2
Papuan_HGDP00541,0.2
Sephardic_Jew_sephardic16bul,0.2
Spanish_Penedes_ROB016,0.2
Spanish_Valencia_HG01606,0.2
Spanish_Valencia_HG01607,0.2
Yoruba_NA18487,0.2
Yoruba_NA18488,0.2

Ruderico
08-25-2019, 03:02 PM
Sim, mas também tem imensas samples sem grande significado historico para nós, e acaba por ser difícil de interpretar. Às vezes algumas samples acabam por ser boas, apesar de o grupo em si não ser (no meu caso tenho um Lombardo da Hungria, SZ30) e ficamos sem saber "ler" o resultado. A melhor fit não é necessariamente o modelo mais sensato, eu estranhamente fico com óptimas fits com algumas amostras da Hungria:/

Ruderico
09-04-2019, 03:29 PM
Decidi fazer algo um pouco diferente, para variar.

Não sei se sabem mas há uma nova ferramenta para fazer este tipo de modelos: https://vahaduo.github.io/vahaduo/
Funciona basicamente da mesma forma que o nMonte e o Oracle, vocês metem as coordenadas das referências que querem no modelo, metem as amostras que querem testar, e o algoritmo cospe um output qualquer. A grande vantagem é que o algoritmo é mais rápido (talvez seja menos preciso, não sei, no nMonte isso acontece), e consegue correr o mesmo modelo para um grande número de indivíduos ao mesmo tempo. O problema é que, contrariamente ao nMonte, o Vahaduo não tem penalidade. Isto não é problema para coordenadas "escaladas" (não usem pen nelas) mas como vocês sabem eu não sou fã delas porque usam uma versão distorcida da rawdata. Para coordenadas regulares, o problema é que o output acaba por sobrestimar as quantidades das referências mais distantes/exóticas porque elas não foram penalizadas.
Dou um exemplo feito no nMonte, primeiro com penalidade, depois sem penalidade. Lembrem-se que as quantidades de North African estimadas nos estudos científicos andam ali entre os 9 e 11% para nós:

[1] "distance%=0.8764"
Portuguese

Celtiberian_IA,31.4
Iberian_IA,30.6
FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o,10.4
North_African,10.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,8.2
Armenia_LBA,5.4
Levant_Roman,3.6

[1] "distance%=0.7819"
Portuguese

Celtiberian_IA,28
Iberian_IA,27.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,15
North_African,14
FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o,11.2
Armenia_LBA,4

A fit até pode melhorar, mas o resultado não vai de acordo com os valores estimados por estudos profissionais, daí que eu diga que uma fit melhor não implica necessariamente um modelo mais real. Isto é mais crítico quando se usam referências individuais, que podem ser muitíssimo boas para uma ou outra pessoa, mas a real razão ser desconhecida - tipo o Lombardo SZ30 comigo, ainda estou para saber porque esse me melhora tanto os fits..

Seja como for, aquilo que eu vou postar aqui é feito sem penalidade, portanto já sabem que as componentes mais exóticas vão estar sobrestimadas. Mas como o objectivo é uma representação visual, isso acaba por não ser grande problema porque até pode ajudar a ver diferenças. Lembrem-se é que está exagerado.
Para simplificar a representação decidi usar poucas referências no modelo: em vez de usar Celtiberos e Iberos como no anterior, meti apenas Celtiberos. Cortei o Armenia do modelo, e mudei a referência germânica para o outlier de Levanluhta (obrigado ao Anglesqueville pela dica, apesar de ele nunca ir ler isto) - parece um pouco estranho, mas aparentemente é uma boa amostra para servir de referência germânica. Meti Yoruba só para ver quem fica com mais disso, seja lá porque razão for..como é residual e apenas aparece em alguns, não vai atrapalhar a maioria dos plots.

Como o cluster Ibérico é um clusterfuck dos diabos vou postar da seguinte forma: primeiro meto um plot geral em que se podem ver as direcções dos clines de cada componente, e depois um zoom na maioria das amostras Portuguesas/Ibéricas para se conseguir perceber alguma coisa. Os Portugueses estão a Aqua, vocês são as bolas pretas - estão todos incluídos, claro, mas em alguns casos estão no meio da confusão e vão ter de procurar. Para esticar a coisa meti também todos os Franceses e Italianos do dataset do G25. A título de exemplo reparem que no primeiro plot o cluster Italiano tende todo para o proxy Romano, enquanto que os Franceses tendem para o Germânico. O modelo não é feito para eles, mas ajuda a ver as tendências, penso eu de que.
Finalmente, para verem a relevância de cada CP, vou postar a tabela. Reparem que PC1 e PC2 têm a maioria da informação.

https://i.postimg.cc/zDKrF4hW/eigenvalues.png



PC1-PC2 - mostra bem a tendência geral em três grupos: o Ibérico, o Germânico/Francês e o Romano/Italiano. As outras referências são pouco relevantes aqui, reparem que os seus clines (eixos a verde) são muito pequenos.
https://i.postimg.cc/zzSvFdgy/pc1pc2.png

Zoom
https://i.postimg.cc/npV27gDQ/pc1pc2-zoom.png



PC1-PC3 - mostra melhor quem fica com maiores quantidades da componente Levantina, apesar desta estar quase colinear com o norte Africano. Sem surpresa os Judeus de Itália saltam todos à vista, mas um ou outro indivíduo não Judeu também se destaca, talvez pelo NAfr. Novamente lembrem-se que isto tem pen=0.
De resto é quase Ibéria para a direita, resto para a esquerda.
https://i.postimg.cc/qJwTbWMC/pc1pc3.png

Zoom
https://i.postimg.cc/KmfDYNzD/pc1pc3-zoom.png



PC3-PC4 - este destaca as partes Levantinas das norte Africanas. Enquanto que no plot anterior estas eram quase colineares, aqui já não. Os Judeus de Italia ficam todos na direcção Levantina, mas a tender um pouco para o Norte de África, porque também têm disso. Nós somos ao contrário. Os Italianos no cline Levantino são praticamente todos Sicilianos ou do Sul, ou outros estão todos no segundo quadrante porque não têm Levantino nem norte Africano.
https://i.postimg.cc/Yt82y4nS/pc3pc4.png

Zoom
https://i.postimg.cc/tq6N5Hq9/pc3pc4-zoom.png


PC1-PC5 - o objectivo aqui é mesmo destacar o eixo do Yoruba que é vertical, e ver quem é que fica mais para lá. Como se pode ver na tabela inicial o PC5 contém pouca variância, não se assustem por ficarem mais para lá que não passam a ser mulatos.
https://i.postimg.cc/BJWNwg7q/pc1pc5.png

Zoom
https://i.postimg.cc/4XZ2xP6W/pc1pc5-zoom.png

Ruderico
09-04-2019, 05:03 PM
Para complementar o post anterior, vou postar os resultados da malta daqui do burgo. Mesmo modelo que o anterior, primeiro com penalidade e depois sem, vai dar para ver como/quais as componentes que foram alteradas pela falta de penalidade. Há casos muito gritantes de pessoas (Trebaruna, Defski) que perdem a parte Romana para ser totalmente absorvida pelo Levantine..como disse antes, este modelo foi simplificado para a representação visual em cima, e sem penalidade vale o que vale..
Tentem mais ou menos adaptar a olhometro a diferença entre cada, por exemplo se o pen=0 vos der muito mais Levantino e menos "Romano" tenham isso em atenção nos plots acima.


,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Roman_Imperial_proxy,0.0094,0.0146333,-0.0066,-0.0170667,0.0018667,-0.0057667,-0.0007667,-0.0016333,0.0004333,0.0084667,0.0043667,0.0039667,-0.0056,0.0004667,-0.0050333,-8e-04,0.0064333,-0.0008667,0.0035667,0.0005667,-0.0012333,0.0018333,0.0025333,0.0015,0.0013333
North_African,-0.00346,0.01294,-0.00062,-0.02128,0.01096,-0.01304,-0.01276,0.00358,0.03466,0.01676,0.00466,-0.004,0.01228,-0.01286,0.0171,-0.00984,0.00244,-0.01516,-0.03526,0.00832,-0.0108,-0.0305,0.01888,-0.00098,0.00386
Celtiberian_IA,0.011,0.0141,0.01725,0.00355,0.0188 5,0.0012,-0.00145,0.00195,0.01275,0.0192,-0.00135,0.0059,-0.0114,-0.0062,0.0079,5e-05,-0.00635,7e-04,-1e-04,-6e-04,0.0066,0.0019,-0.00575,-0.0098,-0.0051
FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o,0.0119,0.012,0.0221,0.0224,0.0 154,0.007,-0.004,0.0022,0.0056,7e-04,7e-04,0.0017,-0.0074,-0.0099,0.0255,0.0089,-0.0035,0.0013,0.0096,0.0155,3e-04,-0.001,-0.0038,-0.0017,0.0045
Levant_Roman,0.007675,0.014375,-0.015275,-0.02705,-0.0036,-0.009975,-0.003325,-0.003225,0.0038,0.007275,0.001675,-0.006475,0.00865,-0.001925,-0.007075,0.007725,0.0013,-0.000925,0.002075,0.00265,-2e-04,0.003625,-0.0029,-7e-04,-0.004
Yoruba,-0.0553545,0.0061545,0.0058636,0.0051727,0.0001636, 0.0044727,-0.0189,0.0207,-0.0239,0.0179818,0.0028455,0.0005273,0.0155091,0.0 006909,0.0092273,-0.0072455,0.0054273,0.0003545,0.0047909,-0.0023909,0.0012455,0.0018727,-0.0014273,-0.0003909,-0.0003545





[1] "distance%=1.9585"

Ruderico

Celtiberian_IA,78.4
North_African,10.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,8.6
FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o,1.4
Levant_Roman,1


[1] "distance%=1.9325"

Ruderico

Celtiberian_IA,72.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,13.6
North_African,12.4
FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o,1.8

[1] "distance%=1.6727"

MrsRuderico

Celtiberian_IA,59.2
North_African,15
FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o,11.6
Levant_Roman,7.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,6.4


[1] "distance%=1.6495"

MrsRuderico

Celtiberian_IA,56.8
North_African,18.8
FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o,11.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,8.8
Levant_Roman,4



[1] "distance%=1.7671"

rxavierflima

Celtiberian_IA,68.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,14.6
North_African,11.2
FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o,5.2
Levant_Roman,0.4
Yoruba,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.729"

rxavierflima

Celtiberian_IA,60.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,20.8
North_African,12.8
FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o,6

[1] "distance%=1.176"

elisabetenjoaquim

Celtiberian_IA,58.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,13.2
FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o,11.2
North_African,10.6
Levant_Roman,5.2
Yoruba,1.4


[1] "distance%=1.1234"

elisabetenjoaquim

Celtiberian_IA,53.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,20.4
North_African,13.8
FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o,11.8
Yoruba,0.6

[1] "distance%=1.611"

matiasnlima

Celtiberian_IA,64.2
North_African,13.2
FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o,9.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,8.6
Levant_Roman,4
Yoruba,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.5536"

matiasnlima

Celtiberian_IA,58.2
North_African,17.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,13.6
FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o,10.4



[1] "distance%=1.7537"

Lusitano

Celtiberian_IA,72.6
North_African,12.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,10.6
Levant_Roman,2.8
Yoruba,1.4
FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o,0.2


[1] "distance%=1.7115"

Lusitano

Celtiberian_IA,66.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,18
North_African,14.4
FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o,0.6
Yoruba,0.6

[1] "distance%=2.238"

Trebaruna

Celtiberian_IA,54.8
FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o,18.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,9.4
North_African,9
Levant_Roman,8.4


[1] "distance%=2.2273"

Trebaruna

Celtiberian_IA,55.2
FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o,19
Levant_Roman,16
North_African,9.8

[1] "distance%=1.7186"

Pai_Lusitano

Celtiberian_IA,59.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,19.8
FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o,7.8
Levant_Roman,7.4
North_African,3.8
Yoruba,2


[1] "distance%=1.6876"

Pai_Lusitano

Celtiberian_IA,55.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,32
FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o,7.4
North_African,3.6
Yoruba,1.8



[1] "distance%=1.6584"

Gil_Vicente

Celtiberian_IA,66.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,13
FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o,6.6
North_African,6.2
Levant_Roman,3.8
Yoruba,3.6


[1] "distance%=1.6333"

Gil_Vicente

Celtiberian_IA,63.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,20.6
FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o,6.4
North_African,5.8
Yoruba,4



[1] "distance%=1.7962"

Defski

Celtiberian_IA,69.2
North_African,11.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,8.8
Levant_Roman,8.2
FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o,2.6


[1] "distance%=1.7653"

Defski

Celtiberian_IA,67.2
Levant_Roman,16
North_African,13.2
FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o,3.6

Defski
09-05-2019, 10:59 AM
Ruderico, quais são as características do sample "Levant_Roman"?

Ruderico
09-05-2019, 11:25 AM
Ruderico, quais são as características do sample "Levant_Roman"?

Há um tópico sobre a malta do Egeu e Leste do Mediterrâneo aqui (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?14484-Could-Western-Jews-(Ash-and-Seph-)-descend-from-Aegeans-and-Levantine-admixture), se calhar encontras informação mais detalhada lá, mas basicamente é um referência Levantina semelhante aos da Idade do Bronze mas aparentemente com mais Steppe (acho que os outros tinham 0). É muito semelhante aos grupos mais endógamos do Médio Oriente actual, como os Samaritanos que são Judeus. Suponho que a maioria das pessoas naquela parte do mundo durante a época Romana fossem semelhantes a estas amostras, eles não parecem ter sido muito heterogéneos, ainda hoje andam todos ali próximo

https://i.postimg.cc/SyWgR3gP/levant-lebanon-roman.png





Edit: Não te foques muito nisso, não te esqueças que é apenas um modelo muito simplificado com o objectivo de mostrar as tendências com plots, ainda por cima sem penalidade acaba por exagerar algumas componentes. Se calhar nem devia ter postado, que ainda induzo as pessoas em erro..

Se usar uma forma mais composta do modelo os teus resultados acabam por não ser assim tão diferentes da referência nacional. Sim, tens mais uns trocos, mas também tens bem menos da parte Romana (outra vez). É possível que seja apenas o algoritmo a focar-se numa parte mais que outra por um motivo puramente matemático, no fundo no fundo estas duas referências estão mais próximas uma da outra que de qualquer outra, as amostras que servem de proxy para influência Romana plotam muito a sul. Isto não é descabido, as amostras são praí do século V/VI do norte de Itália, e como podes ver plotam num local onde amostras "verdadeiramente do período Romano" também o fazem (basicamente mesmo em cima do Chipre). Quando forem publicadas as novas amostras actualizo o modelo com referências que sejam historicamente mais fiáveis do que estas (daí ter chamado proxy), idealmente irão plotar um pouquinho mais a norte, e todos teremos mais uns pós disso.
PCA Romano: https://postimg.cc/QFKn1fgg
PCA do proxy https://i.postimg.cc/2CC7wYfF/southern-references.png

Se somares o Romano+Levante+Armenia o teu total está próximo do nacional :noidea: portanto acho que se de facto tiveres algo extra de Levantino, não deve ser grande coisa. Sinceramente o melhor nestes casos é estudar a genealogia e ver se encontras alguém que seja identificado como Judeu nos registos

[1] "distance%=0.8764"

Portuguese

Celtiberian_IA,32.8
Iberian_IA,29.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,12.4
FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o,10.4
North_African,10
Armenia_LBA,3
Levant_Roman,2


[1] "distance%=1.626"

Defski

Iberian_IA,47.2
Celtiberian_IA,24.8
North_African,11
Levant_Roman,5.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,4.2
Armenia_LBA,3.8
FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o,2.8
Yoruba,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.944"

Ruderico

Celtiberian_IA,80
North_African,8.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,6
Armenia_LBA,4.2
Yoruba,0.6
Levant_Roman,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.5457"

MrsRuderico

Iberian_IA,45.6
Celtiberian_IA,20.2
North_African,12.8
FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o,9.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,4.6
Levant_Roman,4
Armenia_LBA,2.8
Yoruba,0.6

Ruderico
09-05-2019, 02:25 PM
Tive o trabalhão todo de meter isto, e hoje sai um update do datasheet do G25 com o dobro ou triplo das amostras Italianas. Enfim.

Defski
09-05-2019, 09:27 PM
É verdade mas agradeço mais uma vez o teu esclarecimento e o teu empenho, falei igualmente com o Jesus Iborra que me deu a sua opinião, é um privilégio ter sido ajudado desde o meu primeiro dia nesta caminhada por vários "experts" (Ruderico, Lusitano, Jesus...).

Ruderico
09-05-2019, 11:01 PM
Oh, de nada, tenho todo o gosto em ajudar. Estou é longe de ser especialista

Ruderico
11-26-2019, 02:09 PM
Penso que ontem o David meteu umas amostras do período Viking da Islândia na lista do Global25. Geralmente eu nem me ia dar ao trabalho de olhar para elas, mas duas das amostras saltaram à vista por serem extremamente Célticas/Gaélicas. Nos mapas do Ph2ter elas pareciam ter maior semelhança às regiões de Castela-e-Leão e Astúrias dentro da península Ibérica, e como achei curioso decidi mete-las no modelo do período Romano/Idade do Ferro e ver o que acontece.

Há duas amostras Gaélicas, para standardizar a coisa eu decidi usar apenas a média delas em vez de usar ambas num grupo.
O resto do modelo é o costume, Ibéricos/Celtiberos, Romanos, Germânicos, Mouros e Levantinos. Corri o modelo para a malta do costume, vão fazendo scroll até aparecerem vocês.


[1] "distance%=0.7463"

Portuguese

Iberia_IA,60.8
Gaelic_Iceland,12.4
North_African,9.4
ITA_Rome_Imperial,6.6
Levant_Roman,6.6
Germanic_IA,4.2


[1] "distance%=1.6157"

Ruderico

Iberia_IA,55.2
Gaelic_Iceland,26.2
ITA_Rome_Imperial,8.8
North_African,8.6
Levant_Roman,1.2

[1] "distance%=1.4603"

MrsRuderico

Iberia_IA,61.6
North_African,11.2
Gaelic_Iceland,9.4
Levant_Roman,7.2
Germanic_IA,6.2
ITA_Rome_Imperial,4.4


[1] "distance%=1.505"

rxavierflima

Iberia_IA,58.6
Gaelic_Iceland,17.8
ITA_Rome_Imperial,13.6
North_African,9.4
Levant_Roman,0.6

[1] "distance%=0.8744"

elisabetenjoaquim

Iberia_IA,62
Gaelic_Iceland,14.2
North_African,9
ITA_Rome_Imperial,8
Levant_Roman,6.8

[1] "distance%=1.1681"

matiasnlima

Iberia_IA,51.8
Gaelic_Iceland,26
North_African,10.8
ITA_Rome_Imperial,7.6
Levant_Roman,3.8


[1] "distance%=1.5176"

Lusitano

Iberia_IA,61.2
ITA_Rome_Imperial,13.4
Gaelic_Iceland,13.2
North_African,11
Levant_Roman,1.2

[1] "distance%=1.527"

Pai_Lusitano

Iberia_IA,60.4
ITA_Rome_Imperial,14.6
Gaelic_Iceland,11.8
Levant_Roman,8.8
North_African,2.4
Germanic_IA,2

[1] "distance%=2.0186"

Trebaruna

Iberia_IA,70.6
Germanic_IA,10.4
Levant_Roman,7.2
North_African,6.2
ITA_Rome_Imperial,3.8
Gaelic_Iceland,1.8


[1] "distance%=1.5626"

Defski

Iberia_IA,66.8
North_African,9.6
ITA_Rome_Imperial,9.2
Levant_Roman,6.8
Gaelic_Iceland,5.4
Germanic_IA,2.2


[1] "distance%=1.3023"

Gil_Vicente

Iberia_IA,55.4
Gaelic_Iceland,20.4
ITA_Rome_Imperial,14.8
North_African,4.2
Yoruba,3
Levant_Roman,2.2


[1] "distance%=1.0155"

Endovelicus

Iberia_IA,62.8
ITA_Rome_Imperial,12.2
Gaelic_Iceland,10.6
Levant_Roman,7.6
North_African,4.2
Yoruba,2.6


[1] "distance%=2.1106"

Juan

Iberia_IA,59.8
ITA_Rome_Imperial,17.8
Gaelic_Iceland,15.2
North_African,7.2


A razão pela qual estou a fazer o post é porque o modelo detecta quantidades significativas destas amostras, e as fits geralmente também melhoram bastante quando elas estão presentes. Isto é um claro sinal que elas beneficiam muito o modelo, agora a razão é algo um pouco obscura. Depois de uma curta troca com o David a tendência parece ser que as amostras da Idade do Ferro Ibéricas não têm variação suficiente para capturar isto, então o modelo acrescenta a referência Gaélica. A suspeita é que há algo no Ocidente/Noroeste Ibérico pré-histórico que ainda não vimos por falta de amostras. Para a maioria de nós esta referência também come a componente Germânica, o que não é de estranhar porque ambas são bem mais próximas uma da outra do que de nós. Como já é hábito a Trebaruna continua muito Germânica.


Poderá ter algo que ver com a cultura do Bronze Atlântico? Só especulação, aceitam-se sugestões ou teorias.

Ruderico
11-26-2019, 07:08 PM
Pequena experiência para ver o que diferentes amostras preferem entre Iberia_BA, Nordic_BA, Hallstatt e Gaélicos, assumindo que estes são uma aproximação da 'camada' pré-Romana mais o bónus de Germânico pós-Romano, que não é bem captado pelo Nordic_BA..vejam o resultado aparentemente bizarro da Trebaruna (e em parte também do Defski), ela claramente não 'quer' as amostras celtas/gaélicas para nada e prefere fortemente o nativo Ibérico e o "nórdico" BA.
Isto acaba por ter influência naqueles mapas que o ph2ter nos fez, e pode explicar porque razão somos mais próximos da região A ou B.


[1] "distance%=1.4271"

Ruderico

Hallstatt_Celt,51
Gaelic_Iceland,16.2
Iberia_BA,12.8
North_African,9.8
Mycenaean,8.2
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2

[1] "distance%=1.4145"

Lusitano

Hallstatt_Celt,56.2
Iberia_BA,12.6
North_African,11.8
Mycenaean,10.2
Gaelic_Iceland,5.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3.4

[1] "distance%=2.1628"

Trebaruna

Nordic_BA,41.4
Iberia_BA,40.2
North_African,8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,5.4
Mycenaean,5

[1] "distance%=1.3886"

rxavierflima

Hallstatt_Celt,44.2
Iberia_BA,16
Gaelic_Iceland,14.4
Mycenaean,11.4
North_African,11
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3

[1] "distance%=1.4517"

Defski

Iberia_BA,45.2
Nordic_BA,23.2
North_African,10.4
Hallstatt_Celt,7.2
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,7
Mycenaean,6.4
Gaelic_Iceland,0.6

[1] "distance%=1.1131"

Endovelicus

Hallstatt_Celt,58.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,10.4
Mycenaean,9.6
Iberia_BA,8
North_African,6.2
Gaelic_Iceland,2.6
Yoruba,2.6
Nordic_BA,1.8

[1] "distance%=1.3082"

Gil_Vicente

Hallstatt_Celt,39.8
Iberia_BA,18.2
Gaelic_Iceland,17
Mycenaean,10.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,5.8
North_African,5.4
Yoruba,3

[1] "distance%=1.8734"

Juan

Hallstatt_Celt,44.2
Mycenaean,20.6
Iberia_BA,17
Gaelic_Iceland,10
North_African,8.2


Algumas regiões Ibéricas para comparação.
Os Bascos vão buscar imenso à referência do bronze Ibérico, tal como fazem a maioria das regiões contíguas, não acho que isto seja particularmente chocante. A excepção no norte de Espanha são as Astúrias, não faço ideia porquê, mas são semelhantes aos Castelhanos. O facto das Astúrias terem o valor mais alto de Gaélico faz lembrar o outro estudo sobre a península Ibérica, apesar destas amostras não serem iguais ao Irlandeses modernos (nem os métodos serem os mesmos) mas não deixa de ser curioso: https://i.postimg.cc/1XpCFgTT/ireland-donor-group.png

[1] "distance%=0.9162"

Portuguese

Iberia_BA,26.2
Hallstatt_Celt,18.8
Gaelic_Iceland,15.4
Mycenaean,12.8
Nordic_BA,10.8
North_African,10.4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,5.6

[1] "distance%=1.038"

Basque_Spanish

Iberia_BA,68.8
Hallstatt_Celt,20.8
ISL_Viking_Age_Gaelic,7.4
Nordic_BA,3

[1] "distance%=1.1921"

Spanish_Cantabria

Iberia_BA,40.6
Hallstatt_Celt,21.8
Gaelic_Iceland,11
Mycenaean,11
Nordic_BA,9
North_African,4.4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.2

[1] "distance%=1.5694"

Spanish_La_Rioja

Iberia_BA,64.8
Nordic_BA,17.4
Mycenaean,10.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,5.2
North_African,1.2
Hallstatt_Celt,0.6

[1] "distance%=1.7481"

Spanish_Soria

Iberia_BA,53.6
Nordic_BA,32.4
Mycenaean,10.2
North_African,3.8

[1] "distance%=1.0965"

Spanish_Galicia

Iberia_BA,41
Nordic_BA,28.8
North_African,9
Mycenaean,8.4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,6.8
Gaelic_Iceland,6

[1] "distance%=1.3932"

Spanish_Asturias

Hallstatt_Celt,48.6
Iberia_BA,19.8
Gaelic_Iceland,16
North_African,9.2
Mycenaean,6.4

[1] "distance%=0.8519"

Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon

Hallstatt_Celt,41.8
Iberia_BA,18.4
Gaelic_Iceland,11.2
Mycenaean,10.4
North_African,10
Nordic_BA,4.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3.4

[1] "distance%=0.787"

Spanish_Extremadura

Iberia_BA,29.6
Hallstatt_Celt,19
Nordic_BA,12
Mycenaean,11.6
North_African,10.6
Gaelic_Iceland,9.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,7.6

[1] "distance%=0.8337"

Spanish_Aragon

Iberia_BA,33.4
Hallstatt_Celt,30
Gaelic_Iceland,13.2
Mycenaean,10.8
North_African,6
Nordic_BA,4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.6



Finalmente, para testar aquele elevado valor de Nordic_BA em algumas amostras decidi substitui-la pela referencia da idade de ferro e ver o que acontece.

[1] "distance%=2.4984"

Trebaruna

Iberia_BA,42.8
Germanic_IA,21.6
Mycenaean,10
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,8.6
North_African,7.8
Hallstatt_Celt,5
Gaelic_Iceland,4.2

[1] "distance%=1.34"

Spanish_Galicia

Iberia_BA,39.6
Germanic_IA,16.4
Mycenaean,13
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,9.6
North_African,9
Gaelic_Iceland,8.4
Hallstatt_Celt,4

[1] "distance%=2.1214"

Spanish_Soria

Iberia_BA,59
Mycenaean,15.8
Germanic_IA,14.4
Gaelic_Iceland,6
North_African,3.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,1

[1] "distance%=1.803"

Spanish_La_Rioja

Iberia_BA,64.6
Mycenaean,13.6
Germanic_IA,7.6
Hallstatt_Celt,7
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,6.4
North_African,0.8

Todos perdem um bom bocado, provavelmente porque o Germanic_IA é mais tipicamente germânico, enquanto que o Nordic_BA aparenta ser algo mais genericamente Europeu. Seja como for continuam todos a mostrar uma quantidade significativa, duvido que seja acidental. Por outro lado as fits pioraram bastante para todos, talvez porque os valores mostrados estão exagerados e o resto das referências não compensam a diferença.

tatals
11-27-2019, 05:08 AM
Penso que ontem o David meteu umas amostras do período Viking da Islândia na lista do Global25. Geralmente eu nem me ia dar ao trabalho de olhar para elas, mas duas das amostras saltaram à vista por serem extremamente Célticas/Gaélicas. Nos mapas do Ph2ter elas pareciam ter maior semelhança às regiões de Castela-e-Leão e Astúrias dentro da península Ibérica, e como achei curioso decidi mete-las no modelo do período Romano/Idade do Ferro e ver o que acontece.

Há duas amostras Gaélicas, para standardizar a coisa eu decidi usar apenas a média delas em vez de usar ambas num grupo.
O resto do modelo é o costume, Ibéricos/Celtiberos, Romanos, Germânicos, Mouros e Levantinos. Corri o modelo para a malta do costume, vão fazendo scroll até aparecerem vocês.


[1] "distance%=0.7463"

Portuguese

Iberia_IA,60.8
Gaelic_Iceland,12.4
North_African,9.4
ITA_Rome_Imperial,6.6
Levant_Roman,6.6
Germanic_IA,4.2


[1] "distance%=1.6157"

Ruderico

Iberia_IA,55.2
Gaelic_Iceland,26.2
ITA_Rome_Imperial,8.8
North_African,8.6
Levant_Roman,1.2

[1] "distance%=1.4603"

MrsRuderico

Iberia_IA,61.6
North_African,11.2
Gaelic_Iceland,9.4
Levant_Roman,7.2
Germanic_IA,6.2
ITA_Rome_Imperial,4.4


[1] "distance%=1.505"

rxavierflima

Iberia_IA,58.6
Gaelic_Iceland,17.8
ITA_Rome_Imperial,13.6
North_African,9.4
Levant_Roman,0.6

[1] "distance%=0.8744"

elisabetenjoaquim

Iberia_IA,62
Gaelic_Iceland,14.2
North_African,9
ITA_Rome_Imperial,8
Levant_Roman,6.8

[1] "distance%=1.1681"

matiasnlima

Iberia_IA,51.8
Gaelic_Iceland,26
North_African,10.8
ITA_Rome_Imperial,7.6
Levant_Roman,3.8


[1] "distance%=1.5176"

Lusitano

Iberia_IA,61.2
ITA_Rome_Imperial,13.4
Gaelic_Iceland,13.2
North_African,11
Levant_Roman,1.2

[1] "distance%=1.527"

Pai_Lusitano

Iberia_IA,60.4
ITA_Rome_Imperial,14.6
Gaelic_Iceland,11.8
Levant_Roman,8.8
North_African,2.4
Germanic_IA,2

[1] "distance%=2.0186"

Trebaruna

Iberia_IA,70.6
Germanic_IA,10.4
Levant_Roman,7.2
North_African,6.2
ITA_Rome_Imperial,3.8
Gaelic_Iceland,1.8


[1] "distance%=1.5626"

Defski

Iberia_IA,66.8
North_African,9.6
ITA_Rome_Imperial,9.2
Levant_Roman,6.8
Gaelic_Iceland,5.4
Germanic_IA,2.2


[1] "distance%=1.3023"

Gil_Vicente

Iberia_IA,55.4
Gaelic_Iceland,20.4
ITA_Rome_Imperial,14.8
North_African,4.2
Yoruba,3
Levant_Roman,2.2


[1] "distance%=1.0155"

Endovelicus

Iberia_IA,62.8
ITA_Rome_Imperial,12.2
Gaelic_Iceland,10.6
Levant_Roman,7.6
North_African,4.2
Yoruba,2.6


A razão pela qual estou a fazer o post é porque o modelo detecta quantidades significativas destas amostras, e as fits geralmente também melhoram bastante quando elas estão presentes. Isto é um claro sinal que elas beneficiam muito o modelo, agora a razão é algo um pouco obscura. Depois de uma curta troca com o David a tendência parece ser que as amostras da Idade do Ferro Ibéricas não têm variação suficiente para capturar isto, então o modelo acrescenta a referência Gaélica. A suspeita é que há algo no Ocidente/Noroeste Ibérico pré-histórico que ainda não vimos por falta de amostras. Para a maioria de nós esta referência também come a componente Germânica, o que não é de estranhar porque ambas são bem mais próximas uma da outra do que de nós. Como já é hábito a Trebaruna continua muito Germânica.


Poderá ter algo que ver com a cultura do Bronze Atlântico? Só especulação, aceitam-se sugestões ou teorias.

Ruderico, que lista é essa, por favor?

Ruderico
11-27-2019, 08:41 AM
Ruderico, que lista é essa, por favor?

Modelos de G25 feitos com nMonte, é esse o propósito deste thread

tatals
11-27-2019, 12:44 PM
Sim, fiquei testando todas as que vocês fizeram. Apenas entendi que esta última era uma do Davidski, mas não consegui identificar qual. :)

Ruderico
11-27-2019, 12:51 PM
Sim, fiquei testando todas as que vocês fizeram. Apenas entendi que esta última era uma do Davidski, mas não consegui identificar qual. :)

Estes modelos não são dele, foram feitos por nós usando amostras do G25. O G25 em si, bem como as coordenadas de cada amostra, é que é autoria do David. O programa usado para criar os modelos foi feito por outro membro do forum (Huijbregts)

JJJ
11-27-2019, 02:52 PM
Não tenho mais nada para fazer Tudo pela ciência B)B)B)

Bronze atrasado.


sample: Test1:Juan
fit: 2.0882
Iberia_North_BA: 52.5
Scotland_LBA: 22.5
Mycenaean: 20.83
Morocco_EN: 4.17

Modelo Ruderico.


sample: Test1:Juan
fit: 1.9253
Hallstatt_Celt: 52.5
Mycenaean: 20.83
Iberia_BA: 14.17
North_African: 12.5

Modelo Ruderico v2.


sample: Test1:Juan
fit: 2.2506
Celtiberian: 70.83
Roman_Imperial_proxy: 19.17
North_African: 10

K14 Ruderico. Subsaariano em retirada :eek:


sample: Test1:Juan
fit: 1.8524
Atlantic: 35
North_Sea: 24.17
West_Med: 23.33
North_African: 8.33
East_Med: 4.17
East_Asian: 1.67
South_Asian: 1.67
Sub_Saharan: 0.83
West_Asian: 0.83

K17 Lusitano.


sample: Test1:Juan_scaled
fit: 2.702
Iberian: 52.5
Sardinian: 14.17
Italian: 12.5
Germanic: 8.33
Berber: 5.83
Eastern_European: 1.67
Jewish: 1.67
Arab: 0.83
Chinese: 0.83
Indian: 0.83
West_African: 0.83

Ruderico
11-27-2019, 03:10 PM
Não tenho mais nada para fazer Tudo pela ciência B)B)B)

Acrescentei o teu resultado no post #59

Endovelicus
11-27-2019, 06:47 PM
Ruderico, andaste aí a fazer umas "brincadeiras" :lol:... ainda não olhei com a devida atenção.
Em relação aos meus resultados existe alguma coisa merecedora de destaque?

Ruderico
11-27-2019, 07:31 PM
Ruderico, andaste aí a fazer umas "brincadeiras" :lol:... ainda não olhei com a devida atenção.
Em relação aos meus resultados existe alguma coisa merecedora de destaque?

Nem por isso, estive a meter a referência Gaélica nos modelos para ver o que acontecia e se alguém ia mostrar maior tendência com ela, já que todos beneficiamos com a sua inclusão nos modelos. Aparentemente quem melhora mais até sou eu, por exemplo, ao acrescentar a referência ao modelo da idade do ferro a fit melhora uns 0.18% para o Lusitano, e 0.35% para mim. No fundo só ficámos a saber que estes Gaélicos são positivos para os nossos modelos.
O problema está na definição da população pré-Romana, os Celtiberos do paper do Olalde ajudaram, mas não são suficientes. Aparentemente há algo mais "Atlântico" nos nossos antepassados que estas amostras não têm (tanto?), se calhar porque haviam populações ligeiramente diferentes no ocidente da península. Atenção que isto é especulação.

Só a Trebaruna é que tem resultados mais esquisitos, não faço ideia porquê, mas aparenta sempre ser mais germânica..de resto é tudo muito semelhante. Tu, eu, o Xavier, o Lusitano e o Gil Vicente temos todos resultados próximos, daí que tenhamos distâncias curtas uns aos outros. A maior diferença entre nós está nas referências mediterrânicas, mas isso já se sabia dos modelos anteriores.

Lusitano
12-17-2019, 11:47 PM
Bem, isto não é baseado no G25 mas vou deixar aqui na mesma. Eurogenes runs powered by Vahaduo:

K13


Target: Viriato
Distance: 1.2718% / 1.27176286 | ADC: 0.25x
62.0 Portuguese
26.2 Spanish_Andalucia
4.8 North_Italian
4.0 Romanian
1.6 Kabardin
0.8 Ethiopian_Ari_cultivator
0.4 Tatar
0.2 Moldavian

Distance to: Viriato
3.23292437 Portuguese
3.93624186 Spanish_Extremadura
4.88668599 Spanish_Galicia
5.04575069 Spanish_Murcia
5.26206233 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
5.65020354 Spanish_Andalucia
5.68664224 Spanish_Cataluna
6.00774500 Spanish_Valencia
6.37721726 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
8.11696988 Spanish_Cantabria
8.31347100 North_Italian
9.89720162 Spanish_Aragon
10.28382225 Southwest_French
11.36765587 French
15.31151854 Tuscan
17.95445906 West_German
18.15188420 South_Dutch
19.95916581 Albanian
20.06715429 North_Macedonian
21.48492495 Romanian
21.66473632 Serbian
22.54186328 Austrian
23.00638172 West_Sicilian
23.19864005 French_Basque
23.21022619 Bulgarian



K15


Target: Viriato
Distance: 2.3779% / 2.37792718 | ADC: 0.25x
65.8 Portuguese
16.0 Spanish_Murcia
11.6 North_Italian
3.6 Sardinian
1.8 Mari
1.0 Ethiopian_Ari_cultivator
0.2 Chuvash

Distance to: Viriato
3.72943695 Portuguese
4.64945158 Spanish_Extremadura
5.30538406 Spanish_Murcia
5.95713857 Spanish_Galicia
6.04763590 Spanish_Cataluna
6.43324180 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
7.71746720 Spanish_Andalucia
8.01973192 North_Italian
8.04015547 Spanish_Valencia
8.32299826 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
8.65502744 Spanish_Cantabria
10.44439563 Spanish_Aragon
10.99508072 Southwest_French
12.83151589 French
15.03297708 Tuscan
18.10168777 South_Dutch
19.50565559 Serbian
20.50090730 West_German
20.96028864 Romanian
21.52775650 Austrian
21.75199071 Bulgarian
21.97729510 West_Sicilian
22.31759620 French_Basque
22.51389571 Southwest_English
22.62755179 Greek_Thessaly


EUtest


Target: Viriato
Distance: 2.6145% / 2.61450324 | ADC: 0.25x
81.4 Portugese
9.6 Sardinian
3.8 East_Russian
2.8 Lezgin
2.2 Komi
0.2 Somali

Distance to: Viriato
5.60398965 Portugese
7.18708564 spanish
10.12138824 North_Italian
10.90455409 French
15.05460395 Tuscan
17.53753974 Albanian_1
17.74471189 Kosovar_1
18.72894017 Austrian
19.09014143 Bulgarian_1
20.39860289 Serbian
20.57562393 West_&_Central_German
20.62334357 Cornish
20.66335404 Romanian
20.94366969 Dutch
21.71888119 English
21.98070063 Hungarian
23.30015397 SerbianBosnia
23.34963169 French_Basque
23.79820161 Orcadian
23.88411606 Irish
24.36313403 Maltese_1
24.43624767 Moldavian_1
24.45389948 Slovenian_1
24.70265168 Danish
24.82736694 Croatian


Jtest


Target: Viriato
Distance: 2.5373% / 2.53727860 | ADC: 0.25x
81.6 PT
9.8 Sardinian
3.8 East_Russian
2.4 Komi
2.2 Lezgin
0.2 Somali

Distance to: Viriato
5.50398946 PT
7.08128519 ES
10.14352503 North_Italian
10.92508124 FR
14.86925687 Tuscan
18.72999466 AT
20.38229624 Serbian
20.49682658 West_&_Central_German
20.57236253 Cornish
20.65731347 RO
20.84046065 NL
21.68478268 English
21.91383581 HU
23.37114888 French_Basque
23.71665449 Orcadian
23.73712493 IE
24.56793846 DK
25.12613381 Scottish
26.03154817 South_Italian_&_Sicilian
26.56231353 NO
27.14872557 South_&_Central_Swedish
29.55589451 GR
29.83616933 North_Swedish
31.25448768 Moroccan
33.91509693 PL

Endovelicus
12-18-2019, 11:21 AM
Bem, isto não é baseado no G25 mas vou deixar aqui na mesma. Eurogenes runs powered by Vahaduo:


O thread oficial

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?19205-Gedmatch-Calculators-on-Vahaduo

Lusitano
01-03-2020, 10:41 PM
Deuses da Genética,

Em primeiro lugar espero que tenham tido um bom natal e umas boas entradas.

Em segundo lugar, queria saber se existe por aí folhas de cálculo com amostras genéticas divididas por época? Uma folha de cálculo para amostras pré-históricas, outra para a antiguidade clássica e outra para a idade média? A folha de cálculo do Global25_PCA_pop_averages começa a ser uma salgalhada para a minha cabeça, de tantas amostras de várias épocas históricas da humanidade que tem sem qualquer ordem.

Ruderico
01-04-2020, 12:33 AM
Bom ano Lusitano!

Acho que não, tens apenas a separação entre amostras modernas e antigas. Eu agora já nem me preocupo muito com modelos, estou satisfeito com os que tenho, só quando saírem estudos novos com amostras relevantes irei actualiza-los. Sabe-se lá quando irão aparecer

tatals
01-04-2020, 01:21 AM
Feliz Ano-Novo/Bom Ano pra vocês!

Só pra constar, eu encontrei esse mapa aqui (https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/ancient-human-dna_41837#6/51.965/14.326) e achei bem bom. Ele separa as amostras por época, dá os haplogrupos, e linka os estudos.

Lusitano
03-28-2020, 11:18 AM
Um modelo baseado no LivingDNA para as coordenadas escaladas do G25 (ADD DIST COL - 0.25X):

http://*************************/LivingDNA%20G25%20Model.htm

Créditos ao Supreeme.


Target: Lusitano_scaled
Distance: 1.7121% / 0.01712068 | ADC: 0.25x
75.8 West_Iberia
19.2 North_Italy
2.8 North_Africa
2.0 Baltics
0.2 Kalash

Distance to: Lusitano_scaled
0.02025617 West_Iberia:Spanish_Andalucia
0.02367662 West_Iberia:Portuguese
0.02671431 East_Iberia:Spanish_Eivissa
0.03077932 East_Iberia:Spanish_Aragon
0.03419969 North_Italy:Italian_Liguria
0.03984174 France:French_Provence
0.04993188 Tuscany:Italian_Tuscany
0.05335460 Southwest_Germanic:Swiss_German
0.05609455 France:French_Paris
0.05680806 Basque:Basque_Spanish
0.05914687 East_Balkans:Romanian
0.06018148 Northwest_Germanic:Belgian
0.06080194 West_Balkans:Albanian
0.06148547 East_Balkans:Bulgarian
0.06153617 South_Italy:Sicilian_West
0.07178014 South_Italy:Italian_Apulia
0.07503566 Aegean:Greek_Peloponnese
0.07632176 West_Balkans:Croatian
0.07831427 Pannonia:Hungarian
0.08032785 Great_Britain_&_Ireland:English
0.08272856 Northwest_Germanic:Dutch
0.08333271 Great_Britain_&_Ireland:Scottish
0.08541490 East_Germanic:German_East
0.09067263 Aegean:Greek_Crete
0.09278238 Sardinia:Sardinian

Endovelicus
03-28-2020, 11:31 AM
Target: Endovelicus_scaled
Distance: 1.6013% / 0.01601324 | ADC: 0.25x
45.2 East_Iberia
41.2 West_Iberia
7.2 North_Italy
2.4 West_African_Niger-Congo
2.2 Arabia
1.8 North_Africa



Distance to: Endovelicus_scaled
0.02931457 West_Iberia:Portuguese
0.03013592 West_Iberia:Spanish_Andalucia
0.03429102 East_Iberia:Spanish_Eivissa
0.04165053 North_Italy:Italian_Liguria
0.04199268 East_Iberia:Spanish_Aragon
0.04718166 France:French_Provence
0.05170837 Tuscany:Italian_Tuscany
0.05644168 South_Italy:Sicilian_West
0.06251908 Southwest_Germanic:Swiss_German
0.06351171 France:French_Paris
0.06493038 West_Balkans:Albanian
0.06763901 Basque:Basque_Spanish
0.06788111 East_Balkans:Romanian
0.06823665 Northwest_Germanic:Belgian
0.06899541 East_Balkans:Bulgarian
0.07033768 South_Italy:Italian_Apulia
0.07527199 Aegean:Greek_Peloponnese
0.08526328 West_Balkans:Croatian
0.08658728 Pannonia:Hungarian
0.08723622 Great_Britain_&_Ireland:English
0.08775230 Aegean:Greek_Crete
0.08904603 Northwest_Germanic:Dutch
0.09060257 Great_Britain_&_Ireland:Scottish
0.09463838 East_Germanic:German_East
0.09817642 Sardinia:Sardinian

Gil Vicente
03-28-2020, 01:24 PM
Target: Gil_Vicente
Distance: 1.6075% / 0.01607512 | ADC: 0.25x
85.2 West_Iberia
5.0 Great_Britain_&_Ireland
4.2 East_Germanic
2.8 North_Italy
1.6 Balochistan
1.2 West_African_Niger-Congo

East Iberia = 0? :confused:

Distance to: Gil_Vicente
0.02256008 West_Iberia:Spanish_Andalucia
0.02597823 West_Iberia: Portuguese
0.02845471 East_Iberia:Spanish_Eivissa
0.03384714 East_Iberia:Spanish_Aragon
0.03603804 France:French_Provence
0.03955970 North_Italy:Italian_Liguria
0.04782183 Southwest_Germanic:Swiss_German
0.05011580 France:French_Paris
0.05150339 Tuscany:Italian_Tuscany
0.05357353 Northwest_Germanic:Belgian
0.05773014 Basque:Basque_Spanish
0.05968932 East_Balkans:Romanian
0.06179170 East_Balkans:Bulgarian
0.06291474 West_Balkans:Albanian
0.06444127 South_Italy:Sicilian_West
0.07321661 Great_Britain_&_Ireland:English
0.07425726 West_Balkans:Croatian
0.07491437 Pannonia:Hungarian
0.07519280 South_Italy:Italian_Apulia
0.07573523 Northwest_Germanic: Dutch
0.07623241 Great_Britain_&_Ireland:Scottish
0.07816504 Aegean:Greek_Peloponnese
0.08088499 East_Germanic:German_East
0.09205138 Scandinavian:Swedish
0.09339380 Aegean:Greek_Crete


Edit:
Já agora sem o DIST COL - 0.25X a minha distância baixa:

Target: Gil_Vicente
Distance: 1.5403% / 0.01540307
75.8 West_Iberia
11.2 Great_Britain_&_Ireland
4.6 East_Germanic
2.8 South_Caucasus
2.0 Sardinia
1.8 West_African_Niger-Congo
1.0 North_Italy
0.6 Balochistan
0.2 Papua

Endovelicus
03-28-2020, 03:00 PM
^^Sim a distância baixa, mas não achas que os teus resultados a 0.25x são mais fiáveis, não obstante a distância ser ligeiramente maior?

Estes são os meus sem ADC

Target: Endovelicus_scaled
Distance: 1.4041% / 0.01404098
36.6 East_Iberia
26.0 Basque
21.2 North_Italy
7.2 Arabia
4.2 Great_Britain_&_Ireland
3.0 West_African_Niger-Congo
1.6 North_Africa
0.2 Central_African_Hunter-Gatherers

Gil Vicente
03-28-2020, 03:13 PM
^^Sim a distância baixa, mas não achas que os teus resultados a 0.25x são mais fiáveis, não obstante a distância ser ligeiramente maior?

Estes são os meus sem ADC

Target: Endovelicus_scaled
Distance: 1.4041% / 0.01404098
36.6 East_Iberia
26.0 Basque
21.2 North_Italy
7.2 Arabia
4.2 Great_Britain_&_Ireland
3.0 West_African_Niger-Congo
1.6 North_Africa
0.2 Central_African_Hunter-Gatherers

Acabam por não ser muito diferentes. Mas como interpreto estas runs é: quanto menor a distância, melhor.

Ruderico
03-28-2020, 04:54 PM
O scaling foi uma forma crude e pouco ou nada científica de tratar certos problemas, como o ruído dos dados, mas a penalização também tem o mesmo objectivo. Não vejo grande vantagem em usar as duas, se o modelo é escalado eu não usaria penalidade. Quanto às distâncias geralmente querem-se menores, mas não é assim tão simples porque uma distância menor pode ser apenas uma consequência de overfitting. Olhando para essas referências, parece-me que o overfitting é um problema nesse modelo.

Caius Agrippa
03-28-2020, 07:38 PM
Tenho a impressão que correr coordenadas não escaladas usando populações antigas torna os resultados muito mais acertados. É para isso que a ferramenta foi criada, afinal de contas. Essas runs simulando calculadoras comerciais e alguns outros modelos criados por usuários aqui são apenas por diversão, não me parecem ter boa acurácia. Ao menos para mim.

Token
03-28-2020, 07:57 PM
Não há sentido em usar coordenadas escaladas, penalização já basta.

Ruderico
05-14-2020, 01:10 PM
Hoje de manhã decidi afinar um pouco as referências usadas nos modelos, já que a referência Romana era simplesmente a média de todas as amostras e estas não eram bem homogéneas - umas plotavam no Levante, um ou outro no Oeste Asiático e uns dois ou três já mais a norte, ao pé do centro de Itália. Estive a fazer uma análise de clusters e a purgar umas tantas amostras para que elas fossem mais constantes, o resultado final é uma população menos heterogénea e mais semelhante ao grosso das amostras que está essencialmente no Sul de Itália/Ilhas Gregas/etc.

Fiz também algo semelhante para a referência germânica, para não me estar sempre a apoiar no outlier de Levanluhta que parece ser proto-germânico (mas pode nem ser). Usei as amostras medievais da Alemanha e os Lombardos de Szolad e Collegno.


PCA plots das amostras selecionadas
https://i.postimg.cc/mkXp5Dwj/imperial-group.png

https://i.postimg.cc/L4bVwrSx/germanic-group.png


Como ainda não sabemos ao certo como eram as populações pre-Romanas no Ocidente Ibérico agrupei as do Olalde a algumas referências "Celtas" para que fiquem todas num só, mas se quiserem podem tirar o DA111 e o SX18. A referência germânica parece continuar a dar alguns problemas, já que há quem fique com 0 provavelmente devido a um ligeiro overfitting - daí o Celt+Iberia mais elevado que o normal. Geralmente as fits parecem bastante sólidas.

Deixo aqui o código para poderem usar quando quiserem

,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
North_African,-0.005963158,0.013357895,-0.000984211,-0.024810526,0.009926316,-0.013673684,-0.014247368,0.004268421,0.039957895,0.018736842,0. 005947368,-0.005673684,0.015889474,-0.014847368,0.015852632,-0.012289474,0.000347368,-0.022842105,-0.045942105,0.010221053,-0.016910526,-0.043484211,0.026542105,-0.003405263,0.007215789
Celt+Iberia:Celtiberian,0.011,0.0141,0.01725,0.003 55,0.01885,0.0012,-0.00145,0.00195,0.01275,0.0192,-0.00135,0.0059,-0.0114,-0.0062,0.0079,5e-05,-0.00635,7e-04,-1e-04,-6e-04,0.0066,0.0019,-0.00575,-0.0098,-0.0051
Celt+Iberia:Iberian,0.0109375,0.0146625,0.014975,0 .000675,0.01945,-0.0011375,-0.00155,0.0019375,0.0146625,0.025725,-0.0029,0.0074125,-0.0157125,-0.01055,0.0057875,0.00425,0.0052,0.001275,0.003025 ,-0.000825,0.0044625,-7.5e-05,-0.005975,-0.0102875,-0.0009375
Celt+Iberia:Iberia_Northeast_Empuries_Local,0.0113 ,0.014,0.0145333333333333,0.00636666666666667,0.01 37333333333333,0.00153333333333333,-0.0002,0.000966666666666666,0.0110666666666667,0.0 165,-0.0025,0.00826666666666667,-0.0143666666666667,-0.0154333333333333,0.00756666666666667,0.0043,0.00 513333333333333,-0.000166666666666667,0.00286666666666667,-0.00113333333333333,0.00526666666666667,0.00336666 666666667,-0.0026,-0.00506666666666667,0.00256666666666667
Celt+Iberia:DA111,0.0109,0.0149,0.0168,0.0081,0.01 42,0.0021,0.0005,0.001,0.0102,0.0134,-0.0076,0.0001,-0.0112,-0.0023,0.0108,-0.0072,-0.014,0.003,0.0047,0.0013,0.0079,0.0049,-0.0036,-0.0049,-0.0044
Celt+Iberia:SX18,0.011,0.0151,0.0134,-0.0012,0.0161,-0.002,0.002,-0.0009,0.0072,0.0186,0.0011,0.0109,-0.011,-0.0065,0.0013,-0.0012,0.0073,0.0013,0.002,-0.0049,0.0042,0.0046,-0.0098,-0.0036,0.0008
Germanic_Migration,0.011382353,0.013023529,0.01775 2941,0.017347059,0.013017647,0.007088235,0.0039058 82,0.003135294,0.000782353,-0.001647059,-0.003970588,0.001864706,-0.007170588,-0.003411765,0.017705882,0.0007,-0.009952941,0.002394118,0.003082353,0.002788235,0. 006729412,0.005070588,0.000141176,0.010464706,0.00 0441176
Roman_Imperial,0.009447619,0.014657143,-0.004866667,-0.016419048,0.002390476,-0.006728571,-0.0004,-0.001761905,-0.000961905,0.011757143,0.001904762,0.0018,-0.004633333,-0.001642857,-0.006828571,-0.000752381,0.004080952,0.00077619,0.002309524,-0.003890476,-0.00227619,0.002357143,-0.001190476,-0.000504762,-0.000333333



Alguns resultados corridos no nMonte3 com penalidade standard. O Endo parece precisar de uma referência SSA, talvez por isso tenha o norte Africano baixo.


[1] "distance%=0.6529"

Portuguese

Celt+Iberia,65.2
Germanic_Migration,13.2
North_African,10.8
Roman_Imperial,10.8


[1] "distance%=0.4425"

Spanish_Galicia

Celt+Iberia,66.6
Roman_Imperial,12.4
Germanic_Migration,10.6
North_African,10.4


[1] "distance%=1.5599"

Spanish_Asturias

Celt+Iberia,80.2
North_African,10.4
Germanic_Migration,5.6
Roman_Imperial,3.8


[1] "distance%=0.6079"

Spanish_Girona

Celt+Iberia,72.2
Roman_Imperial,12.2
Germanic_Migration,10
North_African,5.6


[1] "distance%=0.598"

Spanish_Cataluna

Celt+Iberia,73.6
Germanic_Migration,10.4
Roman_Imperial,8.4
North_African,7.6


[1] "distance%=0.5423"

Spanish_Andalucia

Celt+Iberia,71.4
Roman_Imperial,11.6
North_African,10.4
Germanic_Migration,6.6


[1] "distance%=0.9301"

Spanish_Cantabria

Celt+Iberia,82.8
Germanic_Migration,5.8
North_African,5.8
Roman_Imperial,5.6


[1] "distance%=1.1599"

Basque_Spanish

Celt+Iberia,98.4
North_African,1.6



[1] "distance%=1.5966"

Ruderico

Celt+Iberia,82.2
North_African,9.8
Roman_Imperial,8


[1] "distance%=1.5729"

MrsRuderico

Celt+Iberia,72.2
North_African,12.2
Roman_Imperial,9.2
Germanic_Migration,6.4


[1] "distance%=1.426"

Lusitano

Celt+Iberia,76.4
North_African,12.2
Roman_Imperial,11.4


[1] "distance%=1.0766"

Endovelicus

Celt+Iberia,69
Roman_Imperial,14.4
Germanic_Migration,8.4
North_African,8.2




No fundo parece que não mudou grande coisa.

JJJ
05-14-2020, 05:20 PM
Como ainda não sabemos ao certo como eram as populações pre-Romanas no Ocidente Ibérico agrupei as do Olalde a algumas referências "Celtas" para que fiquem todas num só, mas se quiserem podem tirar o DA111 e o SX18. A referência germânica parece continuar a dar alguns problemas, já que há quem fique com 0 provavelmente devido a um ligeiro overfitting - daí o Celt+Iberia mais elevado que o normal. Geralmente as fits parecem bastante sólidas.

Deixo aqui o código para poderem usar quando quiserem

,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
North_African,-0.005963158,0.013357895,-0.000984211,-0.024810526,0.009926316,-0.013673684,-0.014247368,0.004268421,0.039957895,0.018736842,0. 005947368,-0.005673684,0.015889474,-0.014847368,0.015852632,-0.012289474,0.000347368,-0.022842105,-0.045942105,0.010221053,-0.016910526,-0.043484211,0.026542105,-0.003405263,0.007215789
Celt+Iberia:Celtiberian,0.011,0.0141,0.01725,0.003 55,0.01885,0.0012,-0.00145,0.00195,0.01275,0.0192,-0.00135,0.0059,-0.0114,-0.0062,0.0079,5e-05,-0.00635,7e-04,-1e-04,-6e-04,0.0066,0.0019,-0.00575,-0.0098,-0.0051
Celt+Iberia:Iberian,0.0109375,0.0146625,0.014975,0 .000675,0.01945,-0.0011375,-0.00155,0.0019375,0.0146625,0.025725,-0.0029,0.0074125,-0.0157125,-0.01055,0.0057875,0.00425,0.0052,0.001275,0.003025 ,-0.000825,0.0044625,-7.5e-05,-0.005975,-0.0102875,-0.0009375
Celt+Iberia:Iberia_Northeast_Empuries_Local,0.0113 ,0.014,0.0145333333333333,0.00636666666666667,0.01 37333333333333,0.00153333333333333,-0.0002,0.000966666666666666,0.0110666666666667,0.0 165,-0.0025,0.00826666666666667,-0.0143666666666667,-0.0154333333333333,0.00756666666666667,0.0043,0.00 513333333333333,-0.000166666666666667,0.00286666666666667,-0.00113333333333333,0.00526666666666667,0.00336666 666666667,-0.0026,-0.00506666666666667,0.00256666666666667
Celt+Iberia:DA111,0.0109,0.0149,0.0168,0.0081,0.01 42,0.0021,0.0005,0.001,0.0102,0.0134,-0.0076,0.0001,-0.0112,-0.0023,0.0108,-0.0072,-0.014,0.003,0.0047,0.0013,0.0079,0.0049,-0.0036,-0.0049,-0.0044
Celt+Iberia:SX18,0.011,0.0151,0.0134,-0.0012,0.0161,-0.002,0.002,-0.0009,0.0072,0.0186,0.0011,0.0109,-0.011,-0.0065,0.0013,-0.0012,0.0073,0.0013,0.002,-0.0049,0.0042,0.0046,-0.0098,-0.0036,0.0008
Germanic_Migration,0.011382353,0.013023529,0.01775 2941,0.017347059,0.013017647,0.007088235,0.0039058 82,0.003135294,0.000782353,-0.001647059,-0.003970588,0.001864706,-0.007170588,-0.003411765,0.017705882,0.0007,-0.009952941,0.002394118,0.003082353,0.002788235,0. 006729412,0.005070588,0.000141176,0.010464706,0.00 0441176
Roman_Imperial,0.009447619,0.014657143,-0.004866667,-0.016419048,0.002390476,-0.006728571,-0.0004,-0.001761905,-0.000961905,0.011757143,0.001904762,0.0018,-0.004633333,-0.001642857,-0.006828571,-0.000752381,0.004080952,0.00077619,0.002309524,-0.003890476,-0.00227619,0.002357143,-0.001190476,-0.000504762,-0.000333333



Alguns resultados corridos no nMonte3 com penalidade standard. O Endo parece precisar de uma referência SSA, talvez por isso tenha o norte Africano baixo.


[1] "distance%=0.6529"

Portuguese

Celt+Iberia,65.2
Germanic_Migration,13.2
North_African,10.8
Roman_Imperial,10.8


[1] "distance%=0.4425"

Spanish_Galicia

Celt+Iberia,66.6
Roman_Imperial,12.4
Germanic_Migration,10.6
North_African,10.4


[1] "distance%=1.5599"

Spanish_Asturias

Celt+Iberia,80.2
North_African,10.4
Germanic_Migration,5.6
Roman_Imperial,3.8


[1] "distance%=0.6079"

Spanish_Girona

Celt+Iberia,72.2
Roman_Imperial,12.2
Germanic_Migration,10
North_African,5.6


[1] "distance%=0.598"

Spanish_Cataluna

Celt+Iberia,73.6
Germanic_Migration,10.4
Roman_Imperial,8.4
North_African,7.6


[1] "distance%=0.5423"

Spanish_Andalucia

Celt+Iberia,71.4
Roman_Imperial,11.6
North_African,10.4
Germanic_Migration,6.6


[1] "distance%=0.9301"

Spanish_Cantabria

Celt+Iberia,82.8
Germanic_Migration,5.8
North_African,5.8
Roman_Imperial,5.6


[1] "distance%=1.1599"

Basque_Spanish

Celt+Iberia,98.4
North_African,1.6



[1] "distance%=1.5966"

Ruderico

Celt+Iberia,82.2
North_African,9.8
Roman_Imperial,8


[1] "distance%=1.5729"

MrsRuderico

Celt+Iberia,72.2
North_African,12.2
Roman_Imperial,9.2
Germanic_Migration,6.4


[1] "distance%=1.426"

Lusitano

Celt+Iberia,76.4
North_African,12.2
Roman_Imperial,11.4


[1] "distance%=1.0766"

Endovelicus

Celt+Iberia,69
Roman_Imperial,14.4
Germanic_Migration,8.4
North_African,8.2




No fundo parece que não mudou grande coisa.

"sample": "Test1:Juan",
"fit": 2.0029,
"Celt+Iberia": 77.5,
"Roman_Imperial": 11.67,
"North_African": 10.83,
"Germanic_Migration": 0,

Creo que no es problema de tu modelo sino de nuestros raw data, seguro que si utilizo el promedio extremeño obtendré germanic migration.

"sample": "Test1:Spanish_Extremadura",
"fit": 0.5657,
"Celt+Iberia": 64.17,
"Roman_Imperial": 14.17,
"North_African": 12.5,
"Germanic_Migration": 9.17,

Sí, efectivamente :biggrin1:

Algunas personas se percataron de que algunos archivos de datos sin procesar provocan resultados extraños en el G25 comparado con los de la hoja de cálculo de Davidski, que no dan ningún tipo de problema. Creo que esto es verdad incluso en Gedmatch.

En algunas calculadoras simplemente se obtiene resultados aleatorios utilizando solo coordenadas de raw datas, cuando hice una de la primera guerra mundial las muestras inglesas de Davidski obtenían un porcentaje británico considerable y pensé que funcionaba correctamente, pero algunas personas inglesas no obtenían casi nada y ese porcentaje era reemplazado por alemán, belga, holandés o cosas así.

Si te fijas en los resultados que publicaste los promedios de la hoja de datos oficial todos obtienen germanic migration exceptuando a los vascos por razones obvias e históricas. La cosa cambia cuando se utiliza coordenadas fuera de ella.

Creo que el propio Davidski comentó que prefería los raw data de FTDNA, no le dí importancia en un principio pero lo estoy empezando a comprender.

Ruderico
05-14-2020, 05:41 PM
Duvido que seja um problema do raw data, até porque estes fenómenos acontecem com dados de qualquer companhia, e a mesma pessoa com dados de companhias diferentes não mostram grandes diferenças nas coordenadas (as distâncias e correlações entre ambas são muito boas). Para mim o problema é que o G25 que tem muita dificuldade em separar uma fonte germânica de outra qualquer com steppe elevada. Essencialmente é tudo BB/CWC com ligeiras diferenças nos níveis de Steppe e EEF, é normal que o algoritmo tenha dificuldade. Se somares o Germanic Migration ao Celtic+Iberia as diferenças tornam-se mais pequenas, mas claramente há pessoas com maior afinidade com germânicos que outras - o G25+nMonte tem é dificuldade em medir isso

O nosso amigo Xavier testou com FTDNA e 23andme:

[1] "distance%=1.498"

rxavierflima

Celt+Iberia,67
North_African,12.8
Roman_Imperial,12.2
Germanic_Migration,8


[1] "distance%=1.481"

rxavierflima23

Celt+Iberia,64
Roman_Imperial,12.8
North_African,12.4
Germanic_Migration,10.8

JJJ
05-14-2020, 06:36 PM
Duvido que seja um problema do raw data, até porque estes fenómenos acontecem com dados de qualquer companhia, e a mesma pessoa com dados de companhias diferentes não mostram grandes diferenças nas coordenadas (as distâncias e correlações entre ambas são muito boas). Para mim o problema é que o G25 que tem muita dificuldade em separar uma fonte germânica de outra qualquer com steppe elevada. Essencialmente é tudo BB/CWC com ligeiras diferenças nos níveis de Steppe e EEF, é normal que o algoritmo tenha dificuldade. Se somares o Germanic Migration ao Celtic+Iberia as diferenças tornam-se mais pequenas, mas claramente há pessoas com maior afinidade com germânicos que outras - o G25+nMonte tem é dificuldade em medir isso

O nosso amigo Xavier testou com FTDNA e 23andme:

[1] "distance%=1.498"

rxavierflima

Celt+Iberia,67
North_African,12.8
Roman_Imperial,12.2
Germanic_Migration,8


[1] "distance%=1.481"

rxavierflima23

Celt+Iberia,64
Roman_Imperial,12.8
North_African,12.4
Germanic_Migration,10.8

Myheritage está vendiendo kits a 49€ con lo que se puede obtener raw datas a muy buen precio, podríamos testear a nuestros padres. Crees que valdría la pena hacérselos o somos muy parecidos a ellos?

Ruderico
05-14-2020, 06:41 PM
Myheritage está vendiendo kits a 49€ con lo que se puede obtener raw datas a muy buen precio, podríamos testear a nuestros padres. Crees que valdría la pena hacérselos o somos muy parecidos a ellos?

Há sempre algumas diferenças, até entre irmãos, nós herdamos 50% de cada pai/mãe mas não necessariamente 25% de cada avô. Eu não vou testar os meus pais, não tenho grande interesse..a única coisa que gostaria de saber são os haplogrupos: materno do meu pai e o paterno da minha mãe (ou do meu tio materno)

JJJ
05-14-2020, 06:56 PM
Há sempre algumas diferenças, até entre irmãos, nós herdamos 50% de cada pai/mãe mas não necessariamente 25% de cada avô. Eu não vou testar os meus pais, não tenho grande interesse..a única coisa que gostaria de saber são os haplogrupos: materno do meu pai e o paterno da minha mãe (ou do meu tio materno)

Creo que compraré un kit algún día, pero no sé cuando.

Al traducir del portugués al español para no tener que utilizar demasiado mi cerebro, también intentó "traducir" mi cita y ocurrió esto:

https://i.postimg.cc/y6JBgyV1/fechascrudasconotrossacerdotes.png

Lol.

Gil Vicente
05-14-2020, 07:00 PM
Eu:

Target: Gil_Vicente
Distance: 1.2792% / 0.01279221
67.4 Celt+Iberia
14.0 Roman_Imperial
9.8 Germanic_Migration
8.8 North_African

rxavierflima
05-14-2020, 08:54 PM
Parece-me muito bem, Rodrigues!

Aproveito a oportunidade para te requisitar para um pouco de webescola.
Há uma coisa que nunca cheguei a perceber. Essas amostras de Roman_Imperial são amostras do período imperial, presumo. Eu esperaria que plotassem bem mais a norte. Mas aparentemente os romanos deste período eram basicamente... judeus? lol Mas fora de brincadeiras, sabe-se alguma coisa em concreto da condição (classe social, função na sociedade, etc) destas pessoas? Não há outras amostras do mesmo período? E da altura da Républica, há? Diferem muito destas?

Muitos mercis

Ruderico
05-14-2020, 09:56 PM
Sim, são do período Imperial, se não me engano são todas de zonas próximas de Roma. A amostra original até tem uma data delas que são literalmente Levantinos, e apenas umas 3 que estão um pouco a norte destes mas que tecnicamente ainda são Italianos do sul. A última amostra plota em França e está próximo de Auvergne e da Ocitânia, possivelmente era um Gaulês (especulação).

Do período republicano há umas 8 amostras, umas são parecidas a nós (Etruscos incluídos), outras já são quase iguais a estas. A teoria é que as que estão mais a norte são mais antigas e próximas dos Itálicos originais (são também próximos de outros Bell Beakers, etc) e os restantes de um período mais tardio, já que não são diferentes destas. Acho que no passado ninguém estava à espera que fossem tão a "sul" mas depois do estudo dos Lombardos de Collegno isto já não foi surpresa, a amostra deles continha umas amostras virtualmente iguais a estas, e Collegno fica no Norte de Itália. Por um lado isto não deveria ser muito chocante, Roma sempre teve uma forte ligação à Grécia antiga, isto é provavelmente a consequência da absorção de populações Gregas no sul de Itália e que acabaram por contribuir não só para a mitologia e cultura Romana, mas também para as suas origens genéticas

rxavierflima
05-15-2020, 08:19 AM
Então se eu estivesse interessado em saber as minhas componentes romana, fenícia e grega, estaria em maus lençois. Este Roman_Imperial inclui tudo isso, certo?

Ruderico
05-15-2020, 08:54 AM
Sim, daí que quando meto uma referência Levantina no modelo ela quando aparece é maioritariamente à custa da componente Romana, como são próximas o modelo pode ficar overfitted e dar valores irrealistas disso. Por outro lado se o modelo prefere Levantino a Romano pode ser porque haja qualquer coisa que faça o modelo ficar assim.
Este tipo de fenómeno acontece também com as referências Germânica/Celta/Ibérica ou Norte Africana/SSA. A minha namorada teve um pouco de West Asian/Levantino no 23andme e o modelo costuma mostrar um bocado disso, apesar de ela até ter relativamente pouco Roman/Levant.


Edit: Um exemplo desse efeito. Nela aparece, em mim não.

[1] "distance%=1.5729"

MrsRuderico

Celt+Iberia,72.2
North_African,12.2
Roman_Imperial,9.2
Germanic_Migration,6.4


[1] "distance%=1.5795"

MrsRuderico

Celt+Iberia,74.8
North_African,10.6
Levant_Roman,6.2
Germanic_Migration,5
Roman_Imperial,3.4


[1] "distance%=1.5966"

Ruderico

Celt+Iberia,82.2
North_African,9.8
Roman_Imperial,8


[1] "distance%=1.6162"

Ruderico

Celt+Iberia,84.2
North_African,9.6
Roman_Imperial,5.2
Levant_Roman,1

mokordo
05-23-2020, 08:59 PM
Deixo aqui o código para poderem usar quando quiserem

,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
North_African,-0.005963158,0.013357895,-0.000984211,-0.024810526,0.009926316,-0.013673684,-0.014247368,0.004268421,0.039957895,0.018736842,0. 005947368,-0.005673684,0.015889474,-0.014847368,0.015852632,-0.012289474,0.000347368,-0.022842105,-0.045942105,0.010221053,-0.016910526,-0.043484211,0.026542105,-0.003405263,0.007215789
Celt+Iberia:Celtiberian,0.011,0.0141,0.01725,0.003 55,0.01885,0.0012,-0.00145,0.00195,0.01275,0.0192,-0.00135,0.0059,-0.0114,-0.0062,0.0079,5e-05,-0.00635,7e-04,-1e-04,-6e-04,0.0066,0.0019,-0.00575,-0.0098,-0.0051
Celt+Iberia:Iberian,0.0109375,0.0146625,0.014975,0 .000675,0.01945,-0.0011375,-0.00155,0.0019375,0.0146625,0.025725,-0.0029,0.0074125,-0.0157125,-0.01055,0.0057875,0.00425,0.0052,0.001275,0.003025 ,-0.000825,0.0044625,-7.5e-05,-0.005975,-0.0102875,-0.0009375
Celt+Iberia:Iberia_Northeast_Empuries_Local,0.0113 ,0.014,0.0145333333333333,0.00636666666666667,0.01 37333333333333,0.00153333333333333,-0.0002,0.000966666666666666,0.0110666666666667,0.0 165,-0.0025,0.00826666666666667,-0.0143666666666667,-0.0154333333333333,0.00756666666666667,0.0043,0.00 513333333333333,-0.000166666666666667,0.00286666666666667,-0.00113333333333333,0.00526666666666667,0.00336666 666666667,-0.0026,-0.00506666666666667,0.00256666666666667
Celt+Iberia:DA111,0.0109,0.0149,0.0168,0.0081,0.01 42,0.0021,0.0005,0.001,0.0102,0.0134,-0.0076,0.0001,-0.0112,-0.0023,0.0108,-0.0072,-0.014,0.003,0.0047,0.0013,0.0079,0.0049,-0.0036,-0.0049,-0.0044
Celt+Iberia:SX18,0.011,0.0151,0.0134,-0.0012,0.0161,-0.002,0.002,-0.0009,0.0072,0.0186,0.0011,0.0109,-0.011,-0.0065,0.0013,-0.0012,0.0073,0.0013,0.002,-0.0049,0.0042,0.0046,-0.0098,-0.0036,0.0008
Germanic_Migration,0.011382353,0.013023529,0.01775 2941,0.017347059,0.013017647,0.007088235,0.0039058 82,0.003135294,0.000782353,-0.001647059,-0.003970588,0.001864706,-0.007170588,-0.003411765,0.017705882,0.0007,-0.009952941,0.002394118,0.003082353,0.002788235,0. 006729412,0.005070588,0.000141176,0.010464706,0.00 0441176
Roman_Imperial,0.009447619,0.014657143,-0.004866667,-0.016419048,0.002390476,-0.006728571,-0.0004,-0.001761905,-0.000961905,0.011757143,0.001904762,0.0018,-0.004633333,-0.001642857,-0.006828571,-0.000752381,0.004080952,0.00077619,0.002309524,-0.003890476,-0.00227619,0.002357143,-0.001190476,-0.000504762,-0.000333333



Alguns resultados corridos no nMonte3 com penalidade standard. O Endo parece precisar de uma referência SSA, talvez por isso tenha o norte Africano baixo.

[CODE]

No fundo parece que não mudou grande coisa.

Target: gixajo
Distance: 1.0427% / 0.01042654
73.0 Celt+Iberia
13.2 Germanic_Migration
8.4 North_African
5.4 Roman_Imperial

Target: gixajo
Distance: 1.0614% / 0.01061351 | ADC: 0.25x
78.0 Celt+Iberia
9.8 Germanic_Migration
7.0 North_African
5.2 Roman_Imperial

Distance to: gixajo
0.01567594 Celt+Iberia:Celtiberian
0.02115834 Celt+Iberia:Iberian
0.02179189 Celt+Iberia:Iberia_Northeast_Empuries_Local
0.02207487 Celt+Iberia:SX18
0.02477418 Celt+Iberia:DA111
0.03872647 Germanic_Migration
0.04022687 Roman_Imperial
0.09508735 North_African

mokordo
05-23-2020, 09:03 PM
Um modelo baseado no LivingDNA para as coordenadas escaladas do G25 (ADD DIST COL - 0.25X):

http://*************************/LivingDNA%20G25%20Model.htm

Créditos ao Supreeme.

E]
Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 1.4018% / 0.01401846
48.6 East_Iberia
27.0 Basque
8.2 West_Iberia
6.6 Baltics
3.8 Sardinia
2.4 Cyprus
1.6 Arabia
1.4 France
0.2 Central_African_Hunter-Gatherers
0.2 Papua


Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 1.4735% / 0.01473451 | ADC: 0.25x
74.8 East_Iberia
13.2 Basque
9.2 West_Iberia
2.8 Baltics

mokordo
05-23-2020, 09:12 PM
,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Iberian:Basque_French,0.128051,0.1520246,0.0551727 ,0.0128231,0.0564104,0.0025099,-0.00141,0.0033229,0.0305968,0.0412036,-0.0092724,0.0103408,-0.0209761,-0.0140237,0.0132192,-0.0019359,-0.0119173,0.0030278,-0.0007165,-0.0044144,0.010157,0.0024855,-0.0086397,-0.0091698,7.18e-05
Italian:Italian_South,0.1078472,0.1459822,-0.0048082,-0.0390022,0.0117712,-0.0115742,-0.0001762,-0.002942,0.0014315,0.0193627,-0.001989,0.005133,-0.0037165,-0.0018232,-0.0059717,-0.0037785,0.0005218,0.0010768,0.0051222,-0.000344,-0.0034628,0.0008655,0.001972,0.000693,0.0015868
Germanic:Norwegian,0.1338234,0.1279567,0.0679357,0 .0534334,0.0386443,0.0210366,0.0041964,0.0062964,0 .0057267,0.0003906,-0.0037349,0.0036823,-0.007518,-0.011698,0.0210754,0.0093949,-0.0054203,0.0026061,0.0006823,0.0007503,0.005633,0 .0055643,0.0042784,0.0177304,0.0010947
Baltic:Lithuanian,0.1371568,0.127703,0.0846638,0.0 816382,0.0467778,0.0300505,0.009518,0.0169608,0.00 20453,-0.028019,-0.0071045,-0.0112402,0.0237112,0.0334422,-0.0093308,-0.0002983,-0.0041395,-0.001457,0.0004712,0.0034078,-0.0032132,-0.0038332,0.0104758,-0.0098205,-8.97e-05
Eastern_European:Mari,0.1013024,-0.0507766,0.0928472,0.0614992,-0.029667,0.0006692,0.0115628,0.0184148,-0.0037224,-0.0393264,0.028288,-0.0152266,0.0344596,-0.03947,-0.0348802,-0.02376,-0.0049806,-0.008032,-0.038765,-0.0317402,0.0163212,0.0052924,-0.0506792,0.010869,-0.0021794
Sardinian:Sardinian,0.1206524,0.1679686,0.0276806,-0.0515508,0.0603188,-0.0224786,-0.003478,0.004292,0.0427048,0.0798558,-0.0020784,0.0158856,-0.0270266,-0.0131842,-0.0132192,-0.004614,0.0120476,-0.0013176,0.0017596,-0.012931,-0.0050908,-0.0042044,-0.0097122,-0.021087,0.0008382
Caucasian:Abkhasian,0.1089858,0.1152626,-0.0468571,-0.0399712,-0.039892,-0.0064146,0.01131,-0.0063169,-0.0616896,-0.0225286,-0.0023951,0.0092729,-0.0233769,0.0038362,0.0027654,-0.0233524,0.0111314,-0.005226,-0.011187,0.0195874,0.0137569,0.0027822,0.0033278,-0.0084799,-0.0015267
Berber:Moroccan,-0.0853671,0.1302133,-0.0128221,-0.0708806,0.0211321,-0.03294,-0.0277833,0.0097687,0.0554032,0.0243993,0.0095087,-0.0090252,0.0269902,-0.0144658,0.0163016,-0.0061874,-0.0027669,-0.0170326,-0.0384216,0.0094351,-0.0098438,-0.0295119,0.0209111,-0.0011248,0.0059207
Jewish:Lebanese_Druze,0.00739,0.01383,-0.01317,-0.0217,-0.00509,-0.00903,-0.00103,-0.00231,-0.00113,0.00417,0.00317,-0.00202,0.00611,0.00147,-0.00506,0.00465,-0.0016,0.00066,0.00197,-0.00073,-0.00106,0.00157,2e-04,0.00209,-0.00049
Arab:Yemenite_Amran,0.0040286,0.0133357,-0.0163143,-0.0314071,-0.0048286,-0.0151143,-0.0037143,-0.0033643,0.0220071,-0.0023357,0.0072357,-0.0153214,0.0312857,0.0038214,0.0029429,0.0130143,-0.0108429,0.0033571,0.0014571,0.0125571,0.00555,0. 0077,-0.0051357,0.0034643,-0.0039929
Indian:Chamar,0.0033333,-0.0095,-0.04485,0.0392167,-0.0232833,0.0237333,-0.0013833,0.0053167,0.029,0.0209833,-0.0031667,-0.00075,0.001,0.00325,-0.007,-0.0095667,0.00585,-0.00105,-0.0031167,0.0052,0.0017333,0.0047833,0.0006167,0.0 023833,-0.00535
Chinese:Han,0.0018182,-0.0443818,-0.0022,-0.0201727,0.0253727,0.0134273,0.0012364,-0.0020818,-0.0073455,-0.0017091,-0.0305364,-0.0047091,0.0048909,-0.0058909,-0.0031909,0.0009455,0.0013455,-0.0006818,-0.0016273,-0.0081727,0.0098091,0.0056273,0.0114455,-0.0010727,-0.0018636
West_African:Yoruba,-0.0553545,0.0061545,0.0058636,0.0051727,0.0001636, 0.0044727,-0.0189,0.0207,-0.0239,0.0179818,0.0028455,0.0005273,0.0155091,0.0 006909,0.0092273,-0.0072455,0.0054273,0.0003545,0.0047909,-0.0023909,0.0012455,0.0018727,-0.0014273,-0.0003909,-0.0003545
East_African:Ethiopian_Gumuz,-0.5256728,0.0489145,-0.0071653,-0.0124893,-0.0007693,-0.0077625,0.0057967,-0.0019615,0.0953762,-0.1010805,-0.0201362,0.017984,-0.0375615,-0.0020873,0.0160377,-0.020463,0.0244687,0.0021115,0.0144133,-0.0176543,-0.0008735,0.0032767,-0.0057925,-0.0032133,0.004271
Amerindian:Karitiana,0.0051667,-0.0315167,0.0313833,0.03355,-0.0369333,-0.0048833,-0.1374667,-0.16575,-0.0075167,-0.0095167,0.0005833,-0.0018,-0.0011,0.01985,-0.0033667,0.0033333,0.00845,0.00205,8.33e-05,-0.0002833,-0.0044333,0.0088167,-0.0045,-0.0021,-0.0056667
Papuan:Papuan,-0.0459844,-0.2410866,-0.2637584,0.3092414,0.2069308,-0.509589,-0.001974,0.0070152,-0.041273,-0.0119546,-0.018902,0.000869,0.0013974,-0.00311,0.0001628,-0.0003186,-0.0021906,-0.0018498,-0.001081,-0.0015256,0.0023458,0.0018052,0.0012324,0.0018314, 0.0016048
Siberian:Even,0.0421147,-0.4319387,0.1399117,-0.015827,-0.138795,-0.0819007,0.0287493,0.036691,0.0328603,0.0261203,0 .0556993,0.007843,-0.0146187,0.0089913,-0.0159697,-0.011049,0.0022597,0.0133867,0.0288267,0.0127147,0 .050411,-0.045298,0.0072717,0.0127327,0.0190403


Outra calculadora que eu fiz. Em alguns dá uma distance aceitável, em outros nem por isso...




[1] "distance%=1.832"

Viriato

Iberian,56.4
Italian,23.4
Berber,9
Baltic,7.2
Sardinian,2.6
Caucasian,0.8
Siberian,0.4
Papuan,0.2

[1] "distance%=1.7244"

Gil_Vicente

Iberian,55.2
Italian,21.4
Germanic,11.6
Berber,7
Baltic,1.4
Caucasian,1.4
East_African,1.2
Papuan,0.8

[1] "distance%=2.3274"

Ruderico_scaled

Iberian,70
Italian,18.4
Berber,11
East_African,0.4
Germanic,0.2

distance%=2.0283"

rxavierflima

Iberian,46.4
Italian,18.2
Sardinian,10.6
Germanic,9.2
Berber,7.8
Baltic,7.6
Siberian,0.2

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 1.7226% / 0.01722610
47.8 Iberian
19.2 Germanic
17.8 Sardinian
5.2 Italian
3.6 Berber
3.2 Caucasian
3.0 Baltic
0.2 Papuan

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 1.8811% / 0.01881120 | ADC: 0.25x
73.8 Iberian
18.6 Italian
5.2 Germanic
2.0 Berber
0.4 Baltic

mokordo
05-23-2020, 09:13 PM
,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Atlantic:Basque_Spain,0.1319083,0.1504111,0.058286 2,0.0090081,0.0575834,0.0001239,-0.0033162,0.0004102,0.0313603,0.0455997,-0.0045288,0.0116063,-0.0227781,-0.0187627,0.0179452,0.0037271,-0.0058094,0.0027731,-0.0018156,-6.96e-05,0.0087901,0.0024868,-0.0068883,-0.0090371,0.0022619
Atlantic:Basque_French,0.128051,0.1520246,0.055172 7,0.0128231,0.0564104,0.0025099,-0.00141,0.0033229,0.0305968,0.0412036,-0.0092724,0.0103408,-0.0209761,-0.0140237,0.0132192,-0.0019359,-0.0119173,0.0030278,-0.0007165,-0.0044144,0.010157,0.0024855,-0.0086397,-0.0091698,7.18e-05
North_Sea:Orcadian,0.1306689,0.1342528,0.0629793,0 .04845,0.0387149,0.0175423,0.001786,0.0039229,0.00 50312,0.001786,-0.0068367,0.0048108,-0.0119078,-0.0108308,0.0223531,0.0030364,-0.0123864,0.0034712,0.0026774,0.0003001,0.0049539, 0.0022504,-0.0021567,0.0100374,-0.0005988
North_Sea:Norwegian,0.1338234,0.1279567,0.0679357, 0.0534334,0.0386443,0.0210366,0.0041964,0.0062964, 0.0057267,0.0003906,-0.0037349,0.0036823,-0.007518,-0.011698,0.0210754,0.0093949,-0.0054203,0.0026061,0.0006823,0.0007503,0.005633,0 .0055643,0.0042784,0.0177304,0.0010947
Baltic:Finnish_East,0.1265711,0.0754538,0.0952229, 0.0812991,0.0279127,0.0239846,0.0090243,0.0163608, 0.0052153,-0.0301419,0.0047905,-0.008887,0.0185082,0.005725,0.0008008,-0.0028109,-0.0050329,-0.0003168,-0.0020741,0.0054275,0.0088094,0.0012738,0.0022678, 0.0049162,0.0044066
Baltic:Lithuanian,0.1371568,0.127703,0.0846638,0.0 816382,0.0467778,0.0300505,0.009518,0.0169608,0.00 20453,-0.028019,-0.0071045,-0.0112402,0.0237112,0.0334422,-0.0093308,-0.0002983,-0.0041395,-0.001457,0.0004712,0.0034078,-0.0032132,-0.0038332,0.0104758,-0.0098205,-8.97e-05
West_Med:Sardinian,0.1206524,0.1679686,0.0276806,-0.0515508,0.0603188,-0.0224786,-0.003478,0.004292,0.0427048,0.0798558,-0.0020784,0.0158856,-0.0270266,-0.0131842,-0.0132192,-0.004614,0.0120476,-0.0013176,0.0017596,-0.012931,-0.0050908,-0.0042044,-0.0097122,-0.021087,0.0008382
West_Asian:Abkhazian,0.1089858,0.1152626,-0.0468571,-0.0399712,-0.039892,-0.0064146,0.01131,-0.0063169,-0.0616896,-0.0225286,-0.0023951,0.0092729,-0.0233769,0.0038362,0.0027654,-0.0233524,0.0111314,-0.005226,-0.011187,0.0195874,0.0137569,0.0027822,0.0033278,-0.0084799,-0.0015267
East_Med:Druze,0.0841153,0.1404478,-0.0496667,-0.070091,-0.0156642,-0.0251838,-0.0024205,-0.0053304,-0.0023112,0.0075992,0.0051477,-0.0030274,0.009083,0.0020232,-0.0068675,0.0061655,-0.0020861,0.0008361,0.0024761,-0.000913,-0.0013225,0.0019414,0.0002465,0.0025182,-0.0005866
East_Med:Cypriot,0.0997375,0.146744,-0.0378534,-0.0702525,-0.0070011,-0.0242986,0.001645,-0.0047594,0.0029656,0.0138728,0.0044454,-0.0001499,0.0025459,0.0018234,-0.0086014,0.0008947,0.0023631,0.0009978,0.0022469,-0.0012506,-0.0024489,0.0011438,-0.0027115,0.0017774,-0.0020656
South_Asian:Chamar,0.0379408,-0.0964753,-0.1691387,0.1266708,-0.0716543,0.06619,-0.0032508,0.0122685,0.0593118,0.0382392,-0.0051425,-0.0011238,0.0014867,0.0044727,-0.0095005,-0.0126843,0.0076275,-0.0013302,-0.0039173,0.0065032,0.0021628,0.0059148,0.00076,0. 0028717,-0.0064067
East_Asian:Vietnamese,0.017785,-0.4347735,-0.0384192,-0.057817,0.1141366,0.056371,-0.0013806,-0.0092881,-0.0165409,-0.0097496,0.0022124,-0.0012176,0.0021555,-0.0063478,-0.0015436,-0.0001989,0.000212,0.0008235,-0.0041323,-0.0082854,0.0089529,0.0064918,0.0120935,9.02e-05,0.003353
Siberian:Evens,0.0421147,-0.4319387,0.1399117,-0.015827,-0.138795,-0.0819007,0.0287493,0.036691,0.0328603,0.0261203,0 .0556993,0.007843,-0.0146187,0.0089913,-0.0159697,-0.011049,0.0022597,0.0133867,0.0288267,0.0127147,0 .050411,-0.045298,0.0072717,0.0127327,0.0190403
Amerindian:Karitiana,0.0588087,-0.320061,0.1183532,0.1083675,-0.1136622,-0.0136192,-0.3230612,-0.382484,-0.0153735,-0.017343,0.0009473,-0.0026975,-0.0016352,0.0273182,-0.0045692,0.0044197,0.0110175,0.002597,0.0001047,-0.0003543,-0.0055318,0.010902,-0.005546,-0.0025303,-0.0067858
Oceanian:Papuan,-0.0459844,-0.2410866,-0.2637584,0.3092414,0.2069308,-0.509589,-0.001974,0.0070152,-0.041273,-0.0119546,-0.018902,0.000869,0.0013974,-0.00311,0.0001628,-0.0003186,-0.0021906,-0.0018498,-0.001081,-0.0015256,0.0023458,0.0018052,0.0012324,0.0018314, 0.0016048
Sub_Saharan:Ethiopian,-0.5256728,0.0489145,-0.0071653,-0.0124893,-0.0007693,-0.0077625,0.0057967,-0.0019615,0.0953762,-0.1010805,-0.0201362,0.017984,-0.0375615,-0.0020873,0.0160377,-0.020463,0.0244687,0.0021115,0.0144133,-0.0176543,-0.0008735,0.0032767,-0.0057925,-0.0032133,0.004271
Sub_Saharan:Yoruba,-0.6300625,0.0625011,0.022113,0.0167079,0.0005035,0 .0124741,-0.044417,0.0477673,-0.0488813,0.0327694,0.0046205,0.0007904,0.0230561, 0.0009509,0.0125232,-0.0096067,0.0070763,0.0004491,0.006022,-0.00299,0.0015542,0.0023156,-0.0017592,-0.0004711,-0.0004246
Red_Sea:Bedouin,0.041925,0.1439232,-0.0598156,-0.1169808,-0.0093179,-0.0480622,-0.0141008,-0.0087432,0.05154,-0.0052038,0.0158689,-0.0305729,0.0629496,0.004855,0.0043959,0.0288529,-0.0199706,0.00366,-0.0040153,0.029,0.0109668,0.0152299,-0.0039166,0.0071025,-0.0083092
Red_Sea:Yemenite_Jew,0.051383,0.1447854,-0.0632486,-0.114066,-0.0118263,-0.0466941,-0.0134963,-0.0088677,0.0489689,-0.006274,0.0113209,-0.0266121,0.0539851,0.0032439,0.0035287,0.0171607,-0.0245497,0.003475,0.0064106,0.0249583,0.012888,0. 0159867,-0.0070954,0.0046479,-0.0068941
North_African:Moroccan_North,-0.0299735,0.1373221,-0.0030378,-0.0673993,0.0280564,-0.0319174,-0.0244542,0.0050512,0.0609822,0.0327317,0.0059091,-0.0065526,0.0185908,-0.0147102,0.0151403,-0.0105629,0.0012604,-0.0179828,-0.040747,0.0092961,-0.0121937,-0.0346297,0.0214382,-0.0055763,0.0043974
North_African:Mozabite,-0.0649782,0.135551,-0.0032793,-0.0717622,0.0260249,-0.0328364,-0.0260656,0.0108257,0.0617306,0.0303463,0.0065097,-0.006366,0.021795,-0.0165685,0.0163159,-0.016176,-0.0027097,-0.0219282,-0.0435571,0.0082757,-0.0146263,-0.0367947,0.0246817,-0.0042277,0.0056594


Até agora está assim com 14 componentes baseadas em samples modernas. O que acham que pode ser melhorado ou que samples devem ser adicionadas\substituídas? Testem para ver se vos dá um fit decente.


Coordenadas escaladas com penalização 0:

[1] "distance%=1.7711"

Lusitano

Atlantic,45
North_Sea,12
West_Med,11.4
North_African,11
East_Med,8.4
Baltic,7.4
West_Asian,4.4
Oceanian,0.2
Siberian,0.2

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 1.5083% / 0.01508328
50.6 Atlantic
17.0 North_Sea
12.6 West_Med
6.6 Baltic
6.0 East_Med
4.0 North_African
1.6 West_Asian
1.4 Red_Sea
0.2 Oceanian

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 1.6262% / 0.01626196 | ADC: 0.25x
75.2 Atlantic
12.4 East_Med
4.6 Baltic
4.6 North_Sea
3.2 North_African

JJJ
05-23-2020, 09:13 PM
Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 1.7226% / 0.01722610
47.8 Iberian
19.2 Germanic
17.8 Sardinian
5.2 Italian
3.6 Berber
3.2 Caucasian
3.0 Baltic
0.2 Papuan

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 1.8811% / 0.01881120 | ADC: 0.25x
73.8 Iberian
18.6 Italian
5.2 Germanic
2.0 Berber
0.4 Baltic

Mejor usar el nmonte con todos, de nada sirve Vahaduo aquí.

estesiquesabe
05-23-2020, 09:15 PM
Um modelo baseado no LivingDNA para as coordenadas escaladas do G25 (ADD DIST COL - 0.25X):

http://*************************/LivingDNA%20G25%20Model.htm

Créditos ao Supreeme.


Target: Lusitano_scaled
Distance: 1.7121% / 0.01712068 | ADC: 0.25x
75.8 West_Iberia
19.2 North_Italy
2.8 North_Africa
2.0 Baltics
0.2 Kalash

Distance to: Lusitano_scaled
0.02025617 West_Iberia:Spanish_Andalucia
0.02367662 West_Iberia:Portuguese
0.02671431 East_Iberia:Spanish_Eivissa
0.03077932 East_Iberia:Spanish_Aragon
0.03419969 North_Italy:Italian_Liguria
0.03984174 France:French_Provence
0.04993188 Tuscany:Italian_Tuscany
0.05335460 Southwest_Germanic:Swiss_German
0.05609455 France:French_Paris
0.05680806 Basque:Basque_Spanish
0.05914687 East_Balkans:Romanian
0.06018148 Northwest_Germanic:Belgian
0.06080194 West_Balkans:Albanian
0.06148547 East_Balkans:Bulgarian
0.06153617 South_Italy:Sicilian_West
0.07178014 South_Italy:Italian_Apulia
0.07503566 Aegean:Greek_Peloponnese
0.07632176 West_Balkans:Croatian
0.07831427 Pannonia:Hungarian
0.08032785 Great_Britain_&_Ireland:English
0.08272856 Northwest_Germanic:Dutch
0.08333271 Great_Britain_&_Ireland:Scottish
0.08541490 East_Germanic:German_East
0.09067263 Aegean:Greek_Crete
0.09278238 Sardinia:Sardinian

Target: Xabier_scaled
Distance: 2.2373% / 0.02237257 | ADC: 0.25x
40.6 France
34.0 West_Iberia
20.4 East_Iberia
4.0 Northwest_Germanic
1.0 Mongolia_&_Manchuria

Distance to: Xabier_scaled
0.02799843 France:French_Provence
0.02853000 East_Iberia:Spanish_Eivissa
0.02973828 West_Iberia:Portuguese
0.03004479 East_Iberia:Spanish_Aragon
0.03283946 West_Iberia:Spanish_Andalucia
0.03942002 France:French_Paris
0.03959339 Southwest_Germanic:Swiss_German
0.04312086 North_Italy:Italian_Liguria
0.04442131 Northwest_Germanic:Belgian
0.05226051 Basque:Basque_Spanish
0.05252155 Tuscany:Italian_Tuscany
0.05425250 East_Balkans:Romanian
0.05988875 East_Balkans:Bulgarian
0.06380462 West_Balkans:Albanian
0.06492398 Great_Britain_&_Ireland:English
0.06671001 Northwest_Germanic:Dutch
0.06810884 Great_Britain_&_Ireland:Scottish
0.06886564 Pannonia:Hungarian
0.06914935 West_Balkans:Croatian
0.07566383 South_Italy:Sicilian_West
0.07699366 Aegean:Greek_Peloponnese
0.07762529 East_Germanic:German_East
0.08107168 South_Italy:Italian_Apulia
0.08289686 Scandinavian:Swedish
0.10053180 Aegean:Greek_Crete

mokordo
05-23-2020, 09:19 PM
Vou postar mais uma série de resultados com diferentes modelos, só para verem como cada um de vocês varia consoante as referências. Primeiro meto sempre a referência nacional. Vou também meter o código caso queiram adaptar ou mudar referências que possam preferir. Todos os modelos foram feitos com coordenadas regulares e corridos com penalidade standard.

Este modelo é uma versão adaptada do Bronze tardio que o FabriceE fez para ver diferenças entre Franceses. Meti Marroquino do neolítico, Armenia LBA e Yoruba, que não haviam no modelo original. Não costumo meter o Yoruba, mas neste ficou. Algumas pessoas ficam com uns trocos daquilo, mas não sei até que ponto será real ou apenas efeito estatístico..eu geralmente vou para o segundo, daí que normalmente não inclua o Yoruba nos meus modelos

,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Morocco_EN,-0.01525,0.00905,-0.00685,-0.0259,0.0092,-0.0214,-0.03375,0.0093,0.07335,0.0024,0.0137,-0.01765,0.05055,-0.03355,0.0511,-0.0255,0.01315,-0.0438,-0.11835,0.02725,-0.03065,-0.0956,0.0671,-0.00825,0.01805
Halberstadt_LBA:I0099,0.0113,0.013,0.0155,0.0169,0 .0104,0.0086,0.0032,0.0022,0.0023,-0.0028,0.0013,0.0015,-0.0096,-0.0109,0.0116,0.0131,0.0058,-0.003,0.0005,0.0038,0.0021,0.0024,0.0029,0.006,0.0 023
Iberia_North_BA:I2471,0.0111,0.0153,0.0154,-0.0004,0.0207,0.0009,0.0001,0.0057,0.0125,0.0268,-0.0027,0.0068,-0.0125,-0.0041,0.0045,-0.0009,-0.0031,0.0055,-0.0047,-0.0016,0.0048,0.0095,-0.0081,-0.0033,0.0038
Mycenaean:I9006,0.0105,0.0158,-0.0018,-0.0212,0.0047,-0.0126,-0.0013,-0.003,-0.0014,0.0275,0.0027,0.0101,-0.0063,0.0021,-0.0146,-0.004,0.0189,0.006,0.0167,-0.0003,-0.006,-0.01,-0.0089,-0.0005,-0.0015
Scotland_LBA:I3130,0.0112,0.013,0.0165,0.0172,0.00 85,0.0055,0.0049,0.0021,0.0023,-0.0024,-0.0038,0.0039,-0.0115,-0.0162,0.0222,0.0011,-0.0217,0,0.0069,0.0008,0.0063,0.0039,-0.0015,0.0032,0.0032
ARM_LBA,0.0088333,0.0121,-0.0083333,-0.0036333,-0.0116,0.0004667,0.0016,-0.0050667,-0.0227667,-0.0117,-0.0032333,0.0015667,-0.0040333,-0.0033667,0.0068667,-0.0044333,-7e-04,0.0005667,0.0016,0.0045,-0.0045333,-0.0011667,0.0063,-0.0019,0.0024667
Yoruba,-0.0553545,0.0061545,0.0058636,0.0051727,0.0001636, 0.0044727,-0.0189,0.0207,-0.0239,0.0179818,0.0028455,0.0005273,0.0155091,0.0 006909,0.0092273,-0.0072455,0.0054273,0.0003545,0.0047909,-0.0023909,0.0012455,0.0018727,-0.0014273,-0.0003909,-0.0003545


[1] "distance%=0.7505"

Portuguese

Iberia_North_BA,50.4
Halberstadt_LBA,15.8
Mycenaean,13.8
Scotland_LBA,12.2
Morocco_EN,5.8
ARM_LBA,2


[1] "distance%=1.9073"

Ruderico

Iberia_North_BA,49.4
Scotland_LBA,33.2
Mycenaean,11.8
Morocco_EN,4.6
ARM_LBA,1


[1] "distance%=1.7175"

Lusitano

Iberia_North_BA,48
Scotland_LBA,26
Mycenaean,14.4
Morocco_EN,5.8
ARM_LBA,5.6
Yoruba,0.2


[1] "distance%=1.5165"

Pai_Lusitano

Iberia_North_BA,45.2
Halberstadt_LBA,20.4
Mycenaean,15.4
Scotland_LBA,10.8
ARM_LBA,4.2
Morocco_EN,2.6
Yoruba,1.4


[1] "distance%=1.6538"

rxavierflima

Iberia_North_BA,51.2
Scotland_LBA,24.4
Mycenaean,15.8
Morocco_EN,5.4
ARM_LBA,3.2


[1] "distance%=1.1989"

Gil_Vicente

Iberia_North_BA,53.6
Scotland_LBA,24.6
Mycenaean,11.2
ARM_LBA,4.6
Morocco_EN,3.2
Yoruba,2.8


[1] "distance%=1.803"

Defski

Iberia_North_BA,50
Halberstadt_LBA,16.8
Mycenaean,14.6
Scotland_LBA,10
Morocco_EN,6.2
ARM_LBA,2.4


[1] "distance%=1.3332"

Azor

Iberia_North_BA,51.6
Mycenaean,19
Halberstadt_LBA,8.6
Scotland_LBA,8.4
ARM_LBA,6.8
Morocco_EN,4
Yoruba,1.6


[1] "distance%=1.4186"

Rui

Iberia_North_BA,49.2
Scotland_LBA,27.6
Mycenaean,9.2
ARM_LBA,6.4
Morocco_EN,5
Yoruba,2.6


Resultados Bascos e uns Espanhois, só para comparar

[1] "distance%=1.5567"

Basque_Spanish

Iberia_North_BA,81.4
Scotland_LBA,14.4
Halberstadt_LBA,2.4
Morocco_EN,1.8


[1] "distance%=1.3977"

Spanish_Pais_Vasco

Iberia_North_BA,67.2
Scotland_LBA,27.4
Mycenaean,4.2
Morocco_EN,1.2


[1] "distance%=1.0215"

Spanish_Cantabria

Iberia_North_BA,64.2
Scotland_LBA,13.4
Halberstadt_LBA,9.6
Mycenaean,8.8
Morocco_EN,2.8
ARM_LBA,1.2


[1] "distance%=1.0263"

Spanish_Andalucia

Iberia_North_BA,54.6
Mycenaean,15.2
Scotland_LBA,14.4
Halberstadt_LBA,6.8
ARM_LBA,5.6
Morocco_EN,3.4

Target: gixajo
Distance: 1.2021% / 0.01202132
57.8 Iberia_North_BA
18.4 Scotland_LBA
12.4 Mycenaean
6.8 Halberstadt_LBA
4.6 Morocco_EN

Target: gixajo
Distance: 1.2350% / 0.01234958 | ADC: 0.25x
65.2 Iberia_North_BA
12.4 Scotland_LBA
8.8 Halberstadt_LBA
7.8 Mycenaean
3.6 Morocco_EN
2.2 ARM_LBA

mokordo
05-23-2020, 09:21 PM
Este modelo foi feito por mim, é também um modelo da idade do Bronze, mas feito com referências médias (excepto o Hallstatt, que só há um - o DA112 é só parcialmente Hallstatt). O norte Africano é o Guanche medieval salvo erro. Como de costume a referência germânica às vezes é comida, outras vezes come o Hallstatt e/ou o Iberia. Meti uma referência Levantina, mas não sei até que ponto faz sentido ou é realista. Seja como for está aí, mas quem quiser pode correr o modelo sem ela. Yoruba ficou de fora, quem tinha uns trocos antes também ia ter aqui.


,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Mycenaean,0.009475,0.0154,-0.00215,-0.020025,0.00705,-0.009725,-0.000225,-0.000925,0.00265,0.025975,0.0034,0.0113,-0.0086,-0.00045,-0.012075,-0.0074,0.016125,0.00285,0.0098,-0.003175,-0.0047,0.00015,-0.00535,0.00095,-6e-04
Iberia_BA,0.0112,0.01525,0.0144,-2e-04,0.022,0.0013,-0.00095,8e-04,0.0194,0.0301,-9e-04,0.00475,-0.0142,-0.0176,0.00645,0.00135,-0.00045,0.00235,0.00155,0.0027,0.00485,-0.00075,-0.00725,-0.01265,0.00885
Hallstatt_Celt:DA111,0.0109,0.0149,0.0168,0.0081,0 .0142,0.0021,0.0005,0.001,0.0102,0.0134,-0.0076,0.0001,-0.0112,-0.0023,0.0108,-0.0072,-0.014,0.003,0.0047,0.0013,0.0079,0.0049,-0.0036,-0.0049,-0.0044
Nordic_BA,0.0103,0.0136667,0.0177333,0.0172333,0.0 098,0.0085333,0.0049667,0.0007667,-0.0004667,-0.0020667,-0.0015333,0.0024667,-0.0038667,-0.0101333,0.0104333,0.0083333,0.0082667,0.0033667, 0.0052,0.0022667,0.0091667,-0.0039667,0.0022,-0.0017333,-0.0062333
Armenia_MBA,0.0091,0.01205,-0.0084,-0.0041,-0.0114,-0.001,0.0014,-0.00285,-0.0262,-0.01035,0.00255,0,-0.00515,0.00125,0.01025,-2e-04,0.00065,-0.0029,0.00045,-1e-04,0.00435,0.00105,0.0044,-0.00065,8e-04
North_African,-0.00346,0.01294,-0.00062,-0.02128,0.01096,-0.01304,-0.01276,0.00358,0.03466,0.01676,0.00466,-0.004,0.01228,-0.01286,0.0171,-0.00984,0.00244,-0.01516,-0.03526,0.00832,-0.0108,-0.0305,0.01888,-0.00098,0.00386
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,0.00714,0.01446,-0.01626,-0.03032,-0.00342,-0.01396,-0.00204,-0.00286,0.0056,0.00558,0.00646,-0.00652,0.01452,0.004,-0.00558,0.00492,-0.00012,-0.00094,0.0012,0.0034,0.00342,0.0061,-0.00102,0.00132,-0.00042



[1] "distance%=0.989"

Portuguese

Iberia_BA,32.4
Hallstatt_Celt,25.6
Nordic_BA,13
North_African,11.8
Mycenaean,8.2
Armenia_MBA,5.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3.4


[1] "distance%=1.6135"

Ruderico

Hallstatt_Celt,64
Iberia_BA,17.2
North_African,9.6
Mycenaean,5.4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2
Armenia_MBA,1.8


[1] "distance%=1.5572"

Lusitano

Hallstatt_Celt,54.2
Iberia_BA,20
North_African,11
Mycenaean,6.4
Armenia_MBA,5.4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3


[1] "distance%=1.611"

Pai_Lusitano

Iberia_BA,33.6
Nordic_BA,25
Hallstatt_Celt,13
Mycenaean,12.2
North_African,6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,5.6
Armenia_MBA,4.6


[1] "distance%=1.5947"

rxavierflima

Hallstatt_Celt,53
Iberia_BA,22
North_African,10.4
Mycenaean,7.8
Armenia_MBA,3.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3


[1] "distance%=1.3959"

Gil_Vicente

Hallstatt_Celt,50.4
Iberia_BA,23.4
Armenia_MBA,8.2
North_African,7.2
Mycenaean,6.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.6
Nordic_BA,1.4


[1] "distance%=1.494"

Defski

Iberia_BA,49
Nordic_BA,19.8
North_African,11
Hallstatt_Celt,6.4
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,5.6
Mycenaean,4.4
Armenia_MBA,3.8


[1] "distance%=1.179"

Azor

Hallstatt_Celt,36.4
Iberia_BA,19.8
Mycenaean,18.8
North_African,9
Nordic_BA,6.4
Armenia_MBA,6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3.6


[1] "distance%=1.1554"

Rui

Hallstatt_Celt,64.4
North_African,11
Iberia_BA,8.8
Armenia_MBA,5.8
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,5
Mycenaean,4.6
Nordic_BA,0.4



Resultados Bascos e uns Espanhois, só para comparar


[1] "distance%=1.0601"

Basque_Spanish

Iberia_BA,68
Hallstatt_Celt,25.6
Nordic_BA,5.4
North_African,0.6
Armenia_MBA,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.1446"

Spanish_Pais_Vasco

Hallstatt_Celt,51.4
Iberia_BA,45.8
North_African,1.4
Armenia_MBA,1
Mycenaean,0.4


[1] "distance%=1.2471"

Spanish_Cantabria

Iberia_BA,44.8
Hallstatt_Celt,26.4
Nordic_BA,12.2
Mycenaean,7.2
North_African,4.6
Armenia_MBA,2.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,2.2


[1] "distance%=0.8535"

Spanish_Andalucia

Iberia_BA,32.2
Hallstatt_Celt,30.6
Mycenaean,10.6
Nordic_BA,9
North_African,7.4
Armenia_MBA,7
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3.2

Target: gixajo
Distance: 1.3149% / 0.01314905
42.8 Hallstatt_Celt
22.0 Iberia_BA
12.6 Mycenaean
11.4 North_African
11.2 Nordic_BA

Target: gixajo
Distance: 1.3244% / 0.01324379 | ADC: 0.25x
45.4 Hallstatt_Celt
23.6 Iberia_BA
11.6 Mycenaean
10.0 North_African
9.4 Nordic_BA

mokordo
05-23-2020, 09:21 PM
Lo siento, estaba aburrido.

Ruderico
05-23-2020, 09:30 PM
No hay problema tío, los modelos son para ser testados


Mejor usar el nmonte con todos, de nada sirve Vahaduo aquí.

No hay mucha diferencia, pero a mi me gusta más la penalización estándar de nMonte3 al 0.25x de Vahaduo. El problema de nMonte3 es que es más lento

alejandromb92
05-23-2020, 10:08 PM
"sample": "Test1:A",
"fit": 1.6909,
"Nordic_BA": 35.83,
"Iberia_BA": 23.33,
"Mycenaean": 16.67,
"North_African": 13.33,
"Levant_Canaanite_MBA": 10.83,

Empecinado
05-24-2020, 09:25 AM
O modelo de Ruderico:

distance%=1.639"



Hallstatt_Celt,58.8
Iberia_BA,17.8
Mycenaean,13.8
North_African,4.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3.4
Armenia_MBA,1.6

alejandromb92
05-24-2020, 03:07 PM
O modelo de Ruderico:

distance%=1.639"



Hallstatt_Celt,58.8
Iberia_BA,17.8
Mycenaean,13.8
North_African,4.6
Levant_Canaanite_MBA,3.4
Armenia_MBA,1.6

Hola Empecinado. Perdona el atrevimiento, pero tu lado paterno de que parte de España proviene?

Empecinado
05-25-2020, 03:34 PM
Hola Empecinado. Perdona el atrevimiento, pero tu lado paterno de que parte de España proviene?

De la provincia de Alicante.

alejandromb92
05-25-2020, 03:40 PM
De la provincia de Alicante.

Serias el segundo L21 valenciano que conozco. Encantado.

mokordo
05-25-2020, 09:26 PM
Um modelo baseado no LivingDNA para as coordenadas escaladas do G25 (ADD DIST COL - 0.25X):

http://*************************/LivingDNA%20G25%20Model.htm

Créditos ao Supreeme.


Target: Lusitano_scaled
Distance: 1.7121% / 0.01712068 | ADC: 0.25x
75.8 West_Iberia
19.2 North_Italy
2.8 North_Africa
2.0 Baltics
0.2 Kalash

Distance to: Lusitano_scaled
0.02025617 West_Iberia:Spanish_Andalucia
0.02367662 West_Iberia:Portuguese
0.02671431 East_Iberia:Spanish_Eivissa
0.03077932 East_Iberia:Spanish_Aragon
0.03419969 North_Italy:Italian_Liguria
0.03984174 France:French_Provence
0.04993188 Tuscany:Italian_Tuscany
0.05335460 Southwest_Germanic:Swiss_German
0.05609455 France:French_Paris
0.05680806 Basque:Basque_Spanish
0.05914687 East_Balkans:Romanian
0.06018148 Northwest_Germanic:Belgian
0.06080194 West_Balkans:Albanian
0.06148547 East_Balkans:Bulgarian
0.06153617 South_Italy:Sicilian_West
0.07178014 South_Italy:Italian_Apulia
0.07503566 Aegean:Greek_Peloponnese
0.07632176 West_Balkans:Croatian
0.07831427 Pannonia:Hungarian
0.08032785 Great_Britain_&_Ireland:English
0.08272856 Northwest_Germanic:Dutch
0.08333271 Great_Britain_&_Ireland:Scottish
0.08541490 East_Germanic:German_East
0.09067263 Aegean:Greek_Crete
0.09278238 Sardinia:Sardinian

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 1.4018% / 0.01401843
49.0 East_Iberia
26.8 Basque
8.0 West_Iberia
6.6 Baltics
3.8 Sardinia
2.4 Cyprus
1.6 Arabia
1.4 France
0.2 Central_African_Hunter-Gatherers
0.2 Papua

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 1.4735% / 0.01473451 | ADC: 0.25x
74.8 East_Iberia
13.2 Basque
9.2 West_Iberia
2.8 Baltics

Distance to: gixajo_scaled
0.01658208 East_Iberia:Spanish_Aragon
0.02180879 East_Iberia:Spanish_Eivissa
0.02332999 West_Iberia:Spanish_Andalucia
0.02532658 West_Iberia:Portuguese
0.03297847 France:French_Provence
0.03475637 Basque:Basque_Spanish
0.04156026 France:French_Paris
0.04280247 Southwest_Germanic:Swiss_German
0.04633465 North_Italy:Italian_Liguria
0.04952534 Northwest_Germanic:Belgian
0.05569660 Tuscany:Italian_Tuscany
0.06187342 East_Balkans:Romanian
0.06547996 East_Balkans:Bulgarian
0.06793278 Great_Britain_&_Ireland:English
0.06940879 West_Balkans:Albanian
0.07220253 Great_Britain_&_Ireland:Scottish
0.07298030 Northwest_Germanic:Dutch
0.07323389 West_Balkans:Croatian
0.07427512 Pannonia:Hungarian
0.07641814 South_Italy:Sicilian_West
0.07926069 East_Germanic:German_East
0.08279618 Aegean:Greek_Peloponnese
0.08478148 South_Italy:Italian_Apulia
0.08713836 Scandinavian:Swedish
0.09133388 Sardinia:Sardinian

Gil Vicente
05-26-2020, 08:02 PM
Target: gixajo_scaled


Bem-vindo camarada :)

Ruderico
05-29-2020, 05:55 PM
Pedi ao David que corresse a última amostra Celtibera do Olalde2019, I3757. Ele disse que a amostra só por pouco teve SNPs suficientes para ser processada, e contém algum ruído, mas ainda assim estão aqui as coordenadas


,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Iberia_North_IA:I3757,0.0099,0.0141,0.0157,0.0055, 0.018,0.0014,-0.0043,0.006,0.0162,0.0186,0.0024,0.004,-0.0187,-0.014,0.0009,-0.0106,-0.0044,0.0067,0.0067,-0.0004,0.0038,0.0128,-0.0081,0.0077,-0.0014

,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Iberia_North_IA_scaled:I3757,0.112685,0.14319,0.05 9208,0.017765,0.055395,0.003904,-0.010105,0.013846,0.033133,0.033896,0.003897,0.005 995,-0.0278,-0.019267,0.001221,-0.014054,-0.005737,0.008488,0.008422,-5e-04,0.004742,0.015828,-0.009983,0.009278,-0.001676

Média das três referências Iberia_North_IA

,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Iberia_North_IA,0.010633333,0.0141,0.016733333,0.0 042,0.018566667,0.001266667,-0.0024,0.0033,0.0139,0.019,-0.0001,0.005266667,-0.013833333,-0.0088,0.005566667,-0.0035,-0.0057,0.0027,0.002166667,-0.000533333,0.005666667,0.005533333,-0.006533333,-0.003966667,-0.003866667

,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Iberia_North_IA_scaled,0.121031667,0.143189667,0.0 63104667,0.013566,0.057139,0.003532667,-0.00564,0.007615333,0.028429,0.034624667,-0.000162333,0.0088425,-0.020565,-0.012110667,0.007554667,-0.004640333,-0.007431667,0.003420333,0.002723333,-0.000666667,0.007071,0.006842333,-0.008052,-0.004779667,-0.004630333

Gil Vicente
05-29-2020, 09:48 PM
https://i.imgur.com/mnoA0GU.jpg

Eu por mim já percebi que as amostras da Idade do Ferro do estudo do Olalde não nos servem de muito como referência uma vez que são todas do nordeste e muito próximas dos bascos (muito distantes de nós).

https://i.imgur.com/4oglTUK.jpg

A Idade do Ferro na peninsula ibérica era muito mais complexa que 2 ou 3 samples todas do nordeste. Daí eu achar surpreendente que se conclua que "os ibéricos da idade do ferro eram iguais aos bascos modernos" com samples tão localizadas numa area especifica.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c8/Ethnographic_Iberia_200_BCE.PNG

JJJ
05-29-2020, 10:01 PM
https://i.imgur.com/mnoA0GU.jpg

Eu por mim já percebi que as amostras da Idade do Ferro do estudo do Olalde não nos servem de muito como referência uma vez que são todas do nordeste e muito próximas dos bascos (muito distantes de nós).

A Idade do Ferro na peninsula ibérica era muito mais complexa que 2 ou 3 samples todas do nordeste. Daí eu achar surpreendente que se conclua que "os ibéricos da idade do ferro eram iguais aos bascos modernos" com samples tão localizadas numa area especifica.


As amostras disponíveis na folha de dados oficial são basicamente bascos modernos. Não que eles fossem semelhantes, eles são.


Distance to: Basque_French
0.02514949 Iberia_North_IA:I3758
0.03152514 Iberia_North_IA:I3759
0.04336552 Iberia_North_IA_scaled:I3757

Distance to: Basque_French
0.01541830 Iberia_North_IA:I3758
0.01990311 Iberia_North_IA:I3759
0.02840151 Iberia_North_IA:I3757

Distance to: Basque_Spanish
0.03122766 Iberia_North_IA:I3758
0.03179706 Iberia_North_IA:I3759
0.04797291 Iberia_North_IA_scaled:I3757

Distance to: Basque_Spanish
0.01986428 Iberia_North_IA:I3759
0.02069779 Iberia_North_IA:I3758
0.03071524 Iberia_North_IA:I3757

Gil Vicente
05-29-2020, 10:07 PM
As amostras disponíveis na folha de dados oficial são basicamente bascos modernos. Não que eles fossem semelhantes, eles são.


Distance to: Basque_French
0.02514949 Iberia_North_IA:I3758
0.03152514 Iberia_North_IA:I3759
0.04336552 Iberia_North_IA_scaled:I3757

Distance to: Basque_French
0.01541830 Iberia_North_IA:I3758
0.01990311 Iberia_North_IA:I3759
0.02840151 Iberia_North_IA:I3757

Distance to: Basque_Spanish
0.03122766 Iberia_North_IA:I3758
0.03179706 Iberia_North_IA:I3759
0.04797291 Iberia_North_IA_scaled:I3757

Distance to: Basque_Spanish
0.01986428 Iberia_North_IA:I3759
0.02069779 Iberia_North_IA:I3758
0.03071524 Iberia_North_IA:I3757

Sim, mas são da Catalunha se vires o primeiro mapa. Penso que são essas samples? Ou seja, olhando para o segundo mapa seriam tribos de lingua ibérica da actual Catalunha (Laietani,etc). Penso que não são exactamente Vascones, por isso disse "semelhantes".

Ruderico
05-29-2020, 10:15 PM
Os Celtiberos devem ser Berones, os restantes Indigetes, Laietani e Ilercavones. Mas algumas das amostras "Iberas" foram decapitadas, portanto deviam ser de outro grupo qualquer. Seja como for são muito poucos para saber o perfil real da península, no ocidente não há informação nenhum, mesmo na idade do Bronze de Portugal temos muito pouco. As amostras Francesas da Idade do Ferro não têm este perfil.

Tens muito boas distâncias ao 3757, só é pena a amostra ser fraca e portanto pouco fiável

JJJ
05-29-2020, 10:17 PM
Sim, mas são da Catalunha se vires o primeiro mapa. Penso que são essas samples? Ou seja, olhando para o segundo mapa seriam tribos de lingua ibérica da actual Catalunha (Laietani,etc). Penso que não são exactamente Vascones, por isso disse "semelhantes".

Não sabemos se era basco ou não, apenas sabemos sua localização, certo?

Mas, devido aos seus resultados, são bascos modernos, o mesmo se passa com o I10895, um catalão da Idade Média (para os ibéricos modernos). Eu ainda tenho isso ainda mais longe.

Distance to: Juan_scaled
0.03379570 Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE:I10895

Endovelicus
05-29-2020, 11:07 PM
Distance to: Endovelicus
0.03239769 Iberia_North_IA:I3757


Distance to: Endovelicus_scaled
0.06544528 Iberia_North_IA_scaled:I3757


Média das três referências Iberia_North_IA


Distance to: Endovelicus
0.02035122 Iberia_North_IA


Distance to: Endovelicus_scaled
0.05959909 Iberia_North_IA_scaled

JJJ
06-02-2020, 10:44 AM
A média portuguesa com +10 amostras portuguesas, também coloquei a oficial para comparar.


Portugal_Ultimate,0.10491229,0.1446694,0.03606354,-0.0036822,0.04197691,-0.00343431,-0.0041562,0.00303937,0.025209,0.0294806,-0.00129909,0.00689394,-0.01227091,-0.0120794,0.01173009,-0.00078417,-0.00241017,-0.00079277,-0.0049274,-0.00110409,0.00114794,-0.00272034,0.00112334,-0.00182806,-0.00061237
Portuguese,0.1061741,0.1446114,0.0360075,-0.0044316,0.042137,-0.0040494,-0.0037412,0.0027598,0.0255982,0.029741,-0.000734,0.0074214,-0.0127373,-0.0112631,0.0125568,-0.0003978,-0.0011316,-0.0008869,-0.005762,-0.0002452,0.0011379,-0.002572,0.0013015,-0.0011326,-0.0001053