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Sikeliot
07-07-2019, 03:12 PM
Here is some evidence I have gathered that shows the Aegean islands are genetically quite diverse, and my personal interpretation of the evidence I have at my disposal for this.

Overall findings, which I explain in depth:
1. Variation is more determined by the individual island rather than which chain it falls into.
2. Crete and Ikaria are most consistently similar to, and difficult to differentiate from, Sicilians and South Italians. Ikaria deviates from the other North Aegean islands, possibly less influenced by outside influence.
3. The Dodecanese is highly various, with some individuals shifted toward Maniots, others firmly within Sicilian/Cretan territory, and and others toward Cypriots and Anatolian Turks, but no one fully plots with mainlanders nor with Cypriots. The "average" is still within the Sicilian/Cretan cluster. Dodecanese who are strongly West Asian shifted that I have seen, have either surnames of Pontic origin, Turkish etymology, or documented ancestry from Anatolian Greek settlers, and thus truly outlying Dodecanese samples may be indicative of foreign, NOT preserved, lineages.
4. Samos, Chios, and Euboea seem to be significantly closer to mainland Greeks than the other islands are, with some individuals appearing as if they were mainland Greeks themselves. This could be due to mainland repopulation, which would have brought Slavic ancestry to the islands.

I see evidence for recent mainland Greek input into the North Aegean and northern Dodecanese, and recent Pontic and/or Anatolian Greek input into the southern Dodecanese, which may explain many of the outliers. By virtue of its geography it is possible that the Cyclades may have always been continuous with the southern and eastern Peloponnese.


FOR POINT OF REFERENCE -- MANIOT AND CYPRIOT on Eurogenes K15:

Maniot:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek 4.61
2 Central_Greek 6.59
3 Ashkenazi 7.83
4 Greek_Thessaly 7.87
5 East_Sicilian 7.94
6 Italian_Abruzzo 8.31
7 South_Italian 9.25
8 West_Sicilian 9.98
9 Bulgarian 10.86
10 Tuscan 12.59

Cypriot:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Cyprian 5.35
2 Lebanese_Muslim 8.07
3 Syrian 10.76
4 Lebanese_Christian 10.88
5 Assyrian 11.38
6 Samaritan 11.53
7 Kurdish_Jewish 11.97
8 Tunisian_Jewish 12.21
9 Sephardic_Jewish 12.21
10 Italian_Jewish 12.61


CRETE plots with and share significant IBD with Sicily and South Italy:

It does not even need to be said by now that Crete is genetically similar to Sicilians/South Italians, but I will do it for comparison's sake. This has been established by multiple studies, is evident on 23andme. As mentioned, the new Cretan study specifically states in the Supplementary Info, that Cretans overlap with Sicilians first, and then on a secondary level with Peloponnesians and Ashkenazim.


The Cretans overlap with Sicily and also have some overlap with the Ashkenazi and the Peloponnese.

c. PCA plot for Cretans and Sicily. There is an overlap between most of the Sicilians with the Cretan
samples. With the exception of two samples from Trapani, the Sicilians seem to be in the same cluster as the Cretans.


ADMIXTURE analysis results for the Cretans and the Sicilian populations. The orange color bar denotes Cretan populations, the blue color bar denotes Sicilian populations. A range of two to eight hypothetical ancestral populations (K) is used. There is no clear differentiation between the Cretans and the Sicilians. The more K increases, the more the Sicilians follow the patterns of the Cretans with internal substructure becoming more prominent in each individual.

and shows this PCA. With the exception of two Trapanese outliers, all other Sicilian provinces sampled plot firmly within Cretan variation.

https://i.imgur.com/gMAiMqK.png

Cretan 23andme results also suggest this, too... these are all Cretans I share with who either score Sicily as a region for IBD sharing and/or their European/MENA ratio is within South Italian variation. What is even more shocking is actually a Cretan and South Aegean population is listed under "Greek and Balkan" but these Cretans and Dodecanese typically score Italian (in most cases with Sicily highlighted) first and only when Crete comes up under Greece for them, does that category inflate.

Crete:
https://i.imgur.com/MDUh5t5.png

Crete:
https://i.imgur.com/7Z81OJJ.png

Crete:
https://i.imgur.com/koZgXRt.png

Crete:
https://i.imgur.com/9Ce0KVS.png

Crete:
https://i.imgur.com/X6noiNT.png

Half Cretan, half Rhodian:
https://i.imgur.com/Pki4bEL.png

Half Cretan, half British:
https://i.imgur.com/o90c36m.png


Dodecanese has significant diversity, ranging from quite mainland Greek shifted to being intermediate with, but NOT plotting with, Cyprus:

This person from Karpathos and the following one from Kalymnos clearly show that some Dodecanese are a bit West Asian shifted, but it may be due to outside influence. The former has a Pontic surname with Turkish etymology, and the latter has partial documented ancestry from Smyrna/Izmir in western Turkey.

https://i.imgur.com/7cA7x9g.png

https://i.imgur.com/DlzYxsP.png



While Dodecanese are definitely, overall, closer to Sicilians/Cretans than to Cypriots, especially on the smaller and more secluded islands which would suggest that we see Dodecanese outliers in Karpathos/Rhodes sometimes due to non-native input... you do find Dodecanese also shifting toward mainland Greece even. See Tilos and Patmos below.

Symi:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sephardic_Jewish 6.26
2 South_Italian 7.47
3 Italian_Jewish 8.24
4 Algerian_Jewish 8.26
5 Tunisian_Jewish 8.97
6 Cyprian 9.89
7 East_Sicilian 10.1
8 Central_Greek 10.45
9 West_Sicilian 11.31
10 Italian_Abruzzo 11.81


Rhodes:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Central_Greek 8.33
2 South_Italian 8.45
3 East_Sicilian 8.82
4 Ashkenazi 9.28
5 Cyprian 10.75
6 Italian_Jewish 10.79
7 Sephardic_Jewish 11.09
8 Algerian_Jewish 12.21
9 Italian_Abruzzo 12.31
10 Greek_Thessaly 13.08


Tilos:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Central_Greek 3.87
2 East_Sicilian 4.72
3 South_Italian 5.23
4 Italian_Abruzzo 5.8
5 Ashkenazi 6.84
6 Greek_Thessaly 8.47
7 West_Sicilian 8.69
8 Greek 9.5
9 Italian_Jewish 9.82
10 Sephardic_Jewish 10.77

Patmos:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Central_Greek 5.56
2 East_Sicilian 6.99
3 South_Italian 7.3
4 Ashkenazi 7.7
5 Greek 7.74
6 Greek_Thessaly 8.57
7 Italian_Abruzzo 9.22
8 West_Sicilian 9.97
9 Italian_Jewish 10.99
10 Algerian_Jewish 11.87

Kalymnos:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 5.41
2 Central_Greek 6.93
3 East_Sicilian 7.39
4 Sephardic_Jewish 7.73
5 Italian_Jewish 8.58
6 Italian_Abruzzo 8.96
7 Ashkenazi 9.16
8 Algerian_Jewish 9.78
9 West_Sicilian 10.16
10 Cyprian 10.74

Kalymnos:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 7.45
2 Central_Greek 8.82
3 Sephardic_Jewish 8.95
4 Cyprian 9.02
5 Italian_Jewish 9.06
6 East_Sicilian 9.24
7 Ashkenazi 10.08
8 Algerian_Jewish 10.29
9 Tunisian_Jewish 10.93
10 Italian_Abruzzo 11.87

Kastellorizo:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 8.56
2 Cyprian 9.7
3 Central_Greek 9.77
4 East_Sicilian 10.38
5 Italian_Jewish 10.56
6 Sephardic_Jewish 10.86
7 Algerian_Jewish 11.98
8 Ashkenazi 12
9 Italian_Abruzzo 12.79
10 Tunisian_Jewish 13.15

Kalymnos:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Cyprian 8.44
2 South_Italian 8.59
3 Central_Greek 9.79
4 East_Sicilian 10.55
5 Italian_Jewish 10.8
6 Sephardic_Jewish 10.99
7 Algerian_Jewish 11.54
8 Ashkenazi 11.88
9 Tunisian_Jewish 12.89
10 Lebanese_Muslim 13.08

Karpathos:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_Jewish 7.06
2 Sephardic_Jewish 8.53
3 Cyprian 8.54
4 South_Italian 8.89
5 Algerian_Jewish 8.91
6 Libyan_Jewish 8.97
7 Tunisian_Jewish 9.94
8 East_Sicilian 10.23
9 Central_Greek 10.53
10 Ashkenazi 10.65


NORTH AEGEAN and CYCLADES have more affinity to mainland Greece and/or are "north shifted", bridging the gap between Sicily/Crete/Dodecanese and mainland Greeks:

Even though these regions are omitted from nearly every professional study, both GEDmatch results as well as 23andme indicate to me that these islands are somewhere intermediate between the Sicily/Crete cluster and mainland Greeks. On 23andme, the West Asian is typically decreased and/or the "Greek and Balkan" category exceeds the Italian.

Chios:
https://i.imgur.com/cRKlZ3U.png

Chios:
https://i.imgur.com/99tzlBf.png

Chios/Samos:
https://i.imgur.com/z1qOZ7E.png

Cyclades:
https://i.imgur.com/rwJOn3T.png


GEDMatch evidence suggests the same. I am using Eurogenes K15 here. Some of them are a bit north-shifted and even if Sicily or South Italy is at the top of the list you begin seeing more "northern" populations like Tuscans, Thessalian Greeks, and even Bulgarians appearing in their top 10.

As "Central Greek" is a mixed mainland and islands sample from Athens, the Sporades islands, and North Aegean, anyone scoring this first is indeed north-shifted. We see on the Eurogenes K15 PCA plot also, that "Central Greece" is located north of Sicilians and Ashkenazim.

In particular, Samos and Euboea seem to have a northward shift, and in fact appear to genetically be part of mainland, not island, Greece.

Ikaria:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 4.67
2 Sephardic_Jewish 6.53
3 East_Sicilian 6.54
4 Central_Greek 6.67
5 Italian_Jewish 7.75
6 Ashkenazi 8.47
7 Algerian_Jewish 8.68
8 Italian_Abruzzo 8.85
9 West_Sicilian 9.46
10 Tunisian_Jewish 10.39

Ikaria:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 3.42
2 Italian_Jewish 6.27
3 East_Sicilian 6.69
4 Central_Greek 6.82
5 Sephardic_Jewish 6.84
6 Algerian_Jewish 7.38
7 West_Sicilian 9.02
8 Italian_Abruzzo 9.13
9 Ashkenazi 9.86
10 Tunisian_Jewish 10.68


Chios:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Central_Greek 5.8
2 South_Italian 6.61
3 East_Sicilian 7.05
4 Italian_Abruzzo 8.85
5 Ashkenazi 9.1
6 Greek_Thessaly 10.02
7 Italian_Jewish 10.93
8 Greek 11.42
9 West_Sicilian 11.48
10 Sephardic_Jewish 12.38

Chios:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Central_Greek 7.41
2 South_Italian 8.04
3 Greek 8.26
4 East_Sicilian 8.57
5 Ashkenazi 9.64
6 Italian_Abruzzo 10
7 West_Sicilian 11.13
8 Sephardic_Jewish 11.65
9 Greek_Thessaly 11.85
10 Italian_Jewish 12.52

Chios:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ashkenazi 5.68
2 Central_Greek 7.01
3 Greek 7.4
4 East_Sicilian 8.06
5 Greek_Thessaly 8.09
6 Italian_Abruzzo 8.95
7 South_Italian 10.18
8 West_Sicilian 10.96
9 Bulgarian 12.08
10 Sephardic_Jewish 13.05

Samos/Euboea:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek 4.76
2 West_Sicilian 6.13
3 Italian_Abruzzo 6.45
4 Tuscan 6.99
5 Central_Greek 8.23
6 Greek_Thessaly 8.4
7 East_Sicilian 8.86
8 Ashkenazi 9.85
9 South_Italian 10.26
10 Bulgarian 10.82

Euboea:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Thessaly 3.14
2 Greek 5.26
3 Central_Greek 6.96
4 Italian_Abruzzo 7.27
5 East_Sicilian 7.58
6 Ashkenazi 7.86
7 Tuscan 8.22
8 Bulgarian 8.92
9 West_Sicilian 9.21
10 South_Italian 10.28

Samos:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Central_Greek 7.49
2 Italian_Abruzzo 7.6
3 West_Sicilian 7.78
4 South_Italian 8.11
5 East_Sicilian 8.12
6 Ashkenazi 8.52
7 Italian_Jewish 9.4
8 Greek 10.64
9 Sephardic_Jewish 10.84
10 Algerian_Jewish 11.18

Chios/Samos:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Central_Greek 3.88
2 East_Sicilian 4.63
3 Ashkenazi 5.31
4 Greek_Thessaly 6.1
5 Italian_Abruzzo 6.45
6 South_Italian 6.56
7 Greek 7.69
8 West_Sicilian 7.96
9 Italian_Jewish 9.99
10 Tuscan 10.35

Cyclades:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Central_Greek 3.01
2 East_Sicilian 4.7
3 Greek 5.28
4 Ashkenazi 5.58
5 South_Italian 5.77
6 Italian_Abruzzo 6.13
7 Greek_Thessaly 7.11
8 West_Sicilian 7.41
9 Italian_Jewish 10.14
10 Sephardic_Jewish 10.76

Cyclades:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 3.24
2 East_Sicilian 4.19
3 Central_Greek 4.4
4 Italian_Jewish 5.48
5 Ashkenazi 6.19
6 West_Sicilian 6.63
7 Italian_Abruzzo 6.68
8 Sephardic_Jewish 6.81
9 Algerian_Jewish 7.38
10 Greek 9.93

Cyclades:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Central_Greek 4.07
2 East_Sicilian 5.2
3 Italian_Abruzzo 5.57
4 Ashkenazi 6.48
5 South_Italian 6.91
6 Greek_Thessaly 7.34
7 Greek 7.79
8 West_Sicilian 9.15
9 Tuscan 11.24
10 Italian_Jewish 11.78

Cyclades:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 3.72
2 Central_Greek 4.7
3 East_Sicilian 4.73
4 Italian_Jewish 6.92
5 Ashkenazi 7
6 Italian_Abruzzo 7.2
7 West_Sicilian 8.14
8 Sephardic_Jewish 8.48
9 Algerian_Jewish 9.12
10 Greek_Thessaly 10.14

Half Crete, half Cyclades: as we can see this person does shift northward a bit in that they have "Central Greek" as their top population.

# Population (source) Distance
1 Central_Greek 3.35
2 East_Sicilian 4.65
3 South_Italian 5.22
4 Ashkenazi 5.57
5 Italian_Abruzzo 7.12
6 Greek_Thessaly 8.48
7 Italian_Jewish 8.81
8 West_Sicilian 9.14
9 Greek 9.34
10 Sephardic_Jewish 10.13

TonyC
07-08-2019, 10:18 PM
Really good break down of the genetic variation in Crete and the Aegean Islands. I think it gives a good picture of how diverse these groups are and how they tend to cline East to West.The Euboea sample is strikingly similar to a standard mainlander. I would argue there’s way less variation on the mainland (with the exception of Tsakonia and Mani). If you look at standard Peloponnesian results they’re similar to Rumeli, Thessaly and Epirus. The variation occurs with Macedonian or Thracian samples Curious do you see any West Asian in Maniot results and if so where would it come from given the relative isolation of that group.

Sikeliot
07-08-2019, 10:33 PM
Curious do you see any West Asian in Maniot results and if so where would it come from given the relative isolation of that group.

No, I do not.

What is striking to me is all the Aegean islanders seem to conglomerate around the South Italian cluster, but on different sides of it (and South Italians are varied too). Like Dodecanese seem to be more similar to Calabria, while Cyclades are more similar to Apulia and so on.

Sikeliot
07-08-2019, 11:23 PM
Really good break down of the genetic variation in Crete and the Aegean Islands. I think it gives a good picture of how diverse these groups are and how they tend to cline East to West.The Euboea sample is strikingly similar to a standard mainlander. I would argue there’s way less variation on the mainland (with the exception of Tsakonia and Mani). If you look at standard Peloponnesian results they’re similar to Rumeli, Thessaly and Epirus. The variation occurs with Macedonian or Thracian samples Curious do you see any West Asian in Maniot results and if so where would it come from given the relative isolation of that group.


Here is another Aegean islander from Lemnos, in the North Aegean. This one is not very different, I imagine, from some people in Mani or Tsakonia. Greek/Balkan is high, Italian is secondary, and West Asian is low. This is consistent with my inclination that the North Aegean and Cyclades show more continuity with the mainland.

https://i.imgur.com/DObDrOV.png

Greekscholar
07-11-2019, 05:18 PM
Hi, new to this forum. 6/8 of my great grandparents were born on the island of Fourni, one on Ikaria, one on Samos. I research Greek DNA at GEDmatch and am very interested in this conversation. I would agree with much of analysis above, especially the reality that you must look island by island to find patterns, and that the more genetically isolated islands (like Ikaria and Kalymnos, for instance) return different results than islands with histories of abandonment and resettlement. In my experience, Chiotes nor Samiotes form tight genetic clusters like Fourniotes, Ikarians, and Kalymniotes do. I am not sure it is as easy to form conclusions about the populations of those islands.

I also much prefer MDLP K16 to Eurogenes K15 because it has so many more Greek samples. K15 has only Central Greece and Thessaly, no Greek islands. At any rate, here are my results on MDLP K16 and Eurogenes K15. I will post results from my family members if that is helpful.

K16

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 40.65
2 Neolithic 25.72
3 Steppe 12.59
4 NorthEastEuropean 9.47
5 NorthAfrican 5.59
6 NearEast 5.44
7 EastAfrican 0.31
8 Oceanic 0.22

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian (SouthItaly) 3.37
2 Greek (Athens) 3.98
3 Jew (Ashkenazi) 4.03
4 Sicilian (Sicily) 4.2
5 Maltese (Malta) 4.44
6 Jew (Ashkenazim) 5.06
7 Greek (Greece) 5.18
8 Italian (Abruzzo) 5.53
9 Greek (Macedonia) 6.07
10 Jew (Bulgaria) 6.62
11 Greek (Peloponnes) 6.89
12 Greek (Greece) 6.89
13 Albanian (Albania) 7.21
14 Jew (Italian) 7.41
15 Greek (Thessaloniki) 7.44
16 Jew (Ashkenazi) 7.52
17 Jew (Sephardim) 8.25
18 Jew (Turkey) 8.32
19 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 8.63
20 Jew (Algeria) 9.36

K15

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 30.42
2 West_Med 18.23
3 West_Asian 15.97
4 Atlantic 10.8
5 North_Sea 10.51
6 Red_Sea 5.47
7 Eastern_Euro 4.75
8 Baltic 3.74
9 Southeast_Asian 0.06
10 Northeast_African 0.05

# Population (source) Distance
1 Central_Greek 4.95
2 South_Italian 5.09
3 East_Sicilian 5.51
4 Ashkenazi 6.68
5 Italian_Jewish 7.12
6 Italian_Abruzzo 7.72
7 Sephardic_Jewish 8.52
8 West_Sicilian 8.82
9 Algerian_Jewish 9.16
10 Greek_Thessaly 10.89
11 Greek 10.96
12 Tunisian_Jewish 12.39
13 Cyprian 12.55
14 Libyan_Jewish 12.98
15 Tuscan 13.25
16 Lebanese_Muslim 16.26
17 Syrian 17.32
18 Turkish 17.4
19 Bulgarian 18.48
20 Samaritan 19.31

dosas
07-11-2019, 05:53 PM
OP, there is no such thing as surnames of Pontic origin. You need to do your homework. If you are referring to surnames with -idis as their last syllables, this applies to any last name that was not deemed Hellenic enough by the Greek Church and thus was changed to have that ending.

So you can have anyone with that last name ending, regardless of their 'origin' during the population movements.

Ruderico
07-11-2019, 06:21 PM
I also much prefer MDLP K16 to Eurogenes K15 because it has so many more Greek samples. K15 has only Central Greece and Thessaly, no Greek islands. At any rate, here are my results on MDLP K16 and Eurogenes K15. I will post results from my family members if that is helpful.

So what you prefer isn't the PCA itself, it's the Oracle's array of references, right? These references can be self-made provided you have the kit numbers and their geographical location anyway. If I'm not mistaken MDLP K16 uses about half the SNPs Eurogenes K15 does, and it's at least equally old. Both are outdated to G25, but I'd much prefer David's K15 over MDLP's K16


And welcome to the forum :)

Greekscholar
07-11-2019, 06:44 PM
So what you prefer isn't the PCA itself, it's the Oracle's array of references, right? These references can be self-made provided you have the kit numbers and their geographical location anyway. If I'm not mistaken MDLP K16 uses about half the SNPs Eurogenes K15 does, and it's at least equally old. Both are outdated to G25, but I'd much prefer David's K15 over MDLP's K16


And welcome to the forum :)

Yes, I prefer the Oracle because it has more built-in Greek reference samples. I also prefer the categories K16 use to describe admix. Geographic terms like "Atlantic" "East Med" etc. don't mean as much to me as population groups like "Neolithic" "Steppe" etc. as well. I have seen threads here before I joined where people were offering up their Eurogenes results to help build a better reference panel for different Greek populations. I will try and find that thread as I learn my way around the website. Thanks for the welcome.

Kanenas
07-11-2019, 06:53 PM
The sample from Euboea is from north or south, also coast or mountains?

Sikeliot
07-13-2019, 07:36 PM
K15

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 30.42
2 West_Med 18.23
3 West_Asian 15.97
4 Atlantic 10.8
5 North_Sea 10.51
6 Red_Sea 5.47
7 Eastern_Euro 4.75
8 Baltic 3.74
9 Southeast_Asian 0.06
10 Northeast_African 0.05

# Population (source) Distance
1 Central_Greek 4.95
2 South_Italian 5.09
3 East_Sicilian 5.51
4 Ashkenazi 6.68
5 Italian_Jewish 7.12
6 Italian_Abruzzo 7.72
7 Sephardic_Jewish 8.52
8 West_Sicilian 8.82
9 Algerian_Jewish 9.16
10 Greek_Thessaly 10.89
11 Greek 10.96
12 Tunisian_Jewish 12.39
13 Cyprian 12.55
14 Libyan_Jewish 12.98
15 Tuscan 13.25
16 Lebanese_Muslim 16.26
17 Syrian 17.32
18 Turkish 17.4
19 Bulgarian 18.48
20 Samaritan 19.31


Going by this, you'd plot about halfway between Cretans (using "South Italian" as a proxy for Cretans) and the southernmost-plotting mainland Greeks which usually come up near "Central Greece." You're still within South Italian and Cretan variation though, but slightly shifted toward mainland Greeks. You're actually a lot like the Cyclades samples I have. You're also close to my Sicilian cousin from Palermo except you're slightly shifted toward mainland Greece. Which I suppose makes sense. Her "Red Sea" is a little higher than yours, and her "Baltic" and "East Euro" are lower.

I think Chios and Samos have seen recent settlement from mainland Greece which might shift them toward the mainland (and also means, among islanders, they might carry the most indirect Slavic influence). But what interests me is that the islands do not follow a north to south genetic gradient.

If we treat Sicily/South Italy or Crete as "baseline" then both Patmos and Tilos in the Dodecanese as well as many Chios/Samos samples, Euboea, and to some extent the Cyclades all shift toward mainland Greece, while other Dodecanese islands are on the more MENA end of the Sicilian/Cretan spectrum. So there is variation in all the island chains which might really be a representation of who does, and doesn't, have recent mainland Greek input.

Chios has variation though. Here is one scoring very high Italian on 23andme, but less MENA than most Sicilians/Cretans/etc.

https://i.imgur.com/IiYiQaR.png

And then to compare here is a Sicilian (Palermo/Trapani regions)... the difference is that 20% or so "Balkan" is mainland Greek affinity in Chios that shifts them a bit north, along with the higher West Asian in the Sicilian.

https://i.imgur.com/P6c7pNv.png


In my experience the more 'isolated' islands come up closer to Sicilians and Calabrians, which might be why you're closer to them than some other islands would be.

Johnny ola
07-13-2019, 09:38 PM
Pontic Greeks at dodecanese is something unusual.Not only Pontic Greeks got -idis surnames...

Greekscholar
07-14-2019, 01:01 AM
Going by this, you'd plot about halfway between Cretans (using "South Italian" as a proxy for Cretans) and the southernmost-plotting mainland Greeks which usually come up near "Central Greece." You're still within South Italian and Cretan variation though, but slightly shifted toward mainland Greeks. You're actually a lot like the Cyclades samples I have. You're also close to my Sicilian cousin from Palermo except you're slightly shifted toward mainland Greece. Which I suppose makes sense. Her "Red Sea" is a little higher than yours, and her "Baltic" and "East Euro" are lower.

I think Chios and Samos have seen recent settlement from mainland Greece which might shift them toward the mainland (and also means, among islanders, they might carry the most indirect Slavic influence). But what interests me is that the islands do not follow a north to south genetic gradient.

If we treat Sicily/South Italy or Crete as "baseline" then both Patmos and Tilos in the Dodecanese as well as many Chios/Samos samples, Euboea, and to some extent the Cyclades all shift toward mainland Greece, while other Dodecanese islands are on the more MENA end of the Sicilian/Cretan spectrum. So there is variation in all the island chains which might really be a representation of who does, and doesn't, have recent mainland Greek input.

Chios has variation though. Here is one scoring very high Italian on 23andme, but less MENA than most Sicilians/Cretans/etc.

https://i.imgur.com/IiYiQaR.png

And then to compare here is a Sicilian (Palermo/Trapani regions)... the difference is that 20% or so "Balkan" is mainland Greek affinity in Chios that shifts them a bit north, along with the higher West Asian in the Sicilian.

https://i.imgur.com/P6c7pNv.png


In my experience the more 'isolated' islands come up closer to Sicilians and Calabrians, which might be why you're closer to them than some other islands would be.

Thank you for the insight. I am very interested in your research into individual Greek islands and the difference between mainland Greece and the islands. You seem to know your K15 well, my highest matches on K36 when mapped with Taxe de Similitude are Calabria, Sicily, and Crete. I am only a high 70s match with the mainland and Cyclades island groups.

I am new here, so I apologize if this is repetitive information. Samos and Chios were both large and prosperous island with a history of depopulation in recent times. Samos was resettled in the 17th century, Chios was of course victim to a massacre and then repopulated in the 19th century. I do believe both islands were settled by Greeks from all over and seem to have still had population movement since then. I say this because I do not find endogamous clusters of cousins with significant ROH. If anyone knows differently, please let me know. Ikaria was very different, poor and mountainous it was left alone and the cousins I have there follow the "cousin to one, cousin to all" principle.

As for Fourni, you have both in play. Our island was "the pirate island" well into the 19th century. I have two 19th century travel journals where the authors describe Fourni (also called Korseon) as deserted except for goats and shepherd boys. The ships feared the bad weather and the pirates that lurked in Fourni's many sheltered harbors. The island was repopulated roughly 1830-1850 once steam ships, some from America, stamped out the last of the pirates. But the island is small, and nearly everyone there traces their ancestry back to the same dozen or so families, so we are all cousins of one type or another by now and the DNA tests show that.

MyHeritage's Autocluster tool shows extensive connections between Fourniotes and Ikarians and Kalymnotes, especially Ikaria. I have Samos matches too, but they are more distant and don't form clusters. I am interested in where we fall in the big picture you are painting, and happy to help, even though Fourni is a very small island compared to these larger islands you are describing.

Sikeliot
07-14-2019, 04:53 PM
Thank you for the insight. I am very interested in your research into individual Greek islands and the difference between mainland Greece and the islands. You seem to know your K15 well, my highest matches on K36 when mapped with Taxe de Similitude are Calabria, Sicily, and Crete. I am only a high 70s match with the mainland and Cyclades island groups.

I am new here, so I apologize if this is repetitive information. Samos and Chios were both large and prosperous island with a history of depopulation in recent times. Samos was resettled in the 17th century, Chios was of course victim to a massacre and then repopulated in the 19th century. I do believe both islands were settled by Greeks from all over and seem to have still had population movement since then. I say this because I do not find endogamous clusters of cousins with significant ROH. If anyone knows differently, please let me know. Ikaria was very different, poor and mountainous it was left alone and the cousins I have there follow the "cousin to one, cousin to all" principle.

As for Fourni, you have both in play. Our island was "the pirate island" well into the 19th century. I have two 19th century travel journals where the authors describe Fourni (also called Korseon) as deserted except for goats and shepherd boys. The ships feared the bad weather and the pirates that lurked in Fourni's many sheltered harbors. The island was repopulated roughly 1830-1850 once steam ships, some from America, stamped out the last of the pirates. But the island is small, and nearly everyone there traces their ancestry back to the same dozen or so families, so we are all cousins of one type or another by now and the DNA tests show that.

MyHeritage's Autocluster tool shows extensive connections between Fourniotes and Ikarians and Kalymnotes, especially Ikaria. I have Samos matches too, but they are more distant and don't form clusters. I am interested in where we fall in the big picture you are painting, and happy to help, even though Fourni is a very small island compared to these larger islands you are describing.

Based on the North Aegean results I have seen on 23andme and GEDMatch from Lesbos, Samos, Chios, Lemnos, and Ikaria, I definitely notice the first four are somewhat more "mainland" like and Ikaria is closer to Crete, Sicily, or some Dodecanese. I've been saying for some time I do not believe that mainland Greece was ever genetically identical to the islands, because even if you remove all the Slavic from the mainland, they still do not have the extra Near Eastern/Levantine that some islands have. Though I am noticing that North Aegeans and Cyclades seem to have less of this, which could either mean it was never present as strongly or it was eroded by mainland Greek settlement.

What interested me were the results for Tilos and Patmos. These are in the Dodecanese chain, but appear more mainland-shifted as well, whereas the person from Symi is closest to Calabrians and Sephardim. I would imagine this simply means Symi received less mainland influence.

dosas
07-14-2019, 05:21 PM
snip

Ikaria was a political prisoner 'exile' destination. More than 7k 'mainlanders' communists were exiled there during 1947-49. Today the island's population is barely 8k.

You need to read up on 20th century population internal migration trends (voluntary or otherwise) inside Greece to understand the impact on the anthro-geography.

Sikeliot
07-14-2019, 05:30 PM
Ikaria was a political prisoner 'exile' destination. More than 7k 'mainlanders' communists were exiled there during 1947-49. Today the island's population is barely 8k.

You need to read up on 20th century population internal migration trends (voluntary or otherwise) inside Greece to understand the impact on the anthro-geography.

Well the island's genetics are not particularly mainland Greek like.

dosas
07-14-2019, 06:17 PM
Well the island's genetics are not particularly mainland Greek like.

According to your narrative .....

Sikeliot
07-14-2019, 06:19 PM
According to your narrative .....

Show me a genetic result from Ikaria that is within the variation of the mainland.

dosas
07-14-2019, 06:22 PM
Show me a genetic result from Ikaria that is within the variation of the mainland.

I don't have to show you anything. Your agenda is well known on forums like eupedia, I am just posting in this thread to underline the glaringly large holes in your methodology.

Sikeliot
07-14-2019, 06:25 PM
I don't have to show you anything. Your agenda is well known on forums like eupedia, I am just posting in this thread to underline the glaringly large holes in your methodology.

If you are claiming that people in Ikaria are primarily recently descended from mainland Greeks, which is a very bold claim to make, you're going to need to back this up for me to believe it.

dosas
07-14-2019, 06:31 PM
If you are claiming that people in Ikaria are primarily recently descended from mainland Greeks, which is a very bold claim to make, you're going to need to back this up for me to believe it.

You just need to open up a modern history book on the place you seem to obsess so much (as an American no less) and spend less time looking at summer night club photos. I can't do your homework for you, you need to put in the work.

Sikeliot
07-14-2019, 06:36 PM
You just need to open up a modern history book on the place you seem to obsess so much (as an American no less) and spend less time looking at summer night club photos. I can't do your homework for you, you need to put in the work.

I'm looking at genetic data, not "summer night club photos." I can see the influence of mainland Greeks in the results from Chios, Samos, and Lemnos but not for Ikaria...

dosas
07-14-2019, 07:37 PM
I'm looking at genetic data, not "summer night club photos." I can see the influence of mainland Greeks in the results from Chios, Samos, and Lemnos but not for Ikaria...

I am just going to say this. Your methodology reeks of certain amateurish mistakes. You attempt to assign patterns in order to fit in your narrative inside a space (Greece in this case) that is characterised by constant large population migrations, internal and external, throughout the twentieth century. Population exchanges, civil war, urbanization and finally modern internal migrations in an age of transportation and ease of relocation skew your initial assumptions.

Your isolated picks mean nothing when you try to apply such sweep and broad generalizations, ie, mainlanders plot like this or islanders plot like that.

In 2019, a good deal of human activity in the islands are actually people from the urban centers moving in for the summer tourist seasons and relocating back to the mainland cities for the winter. A good deal of the so-called 'original' islander population has migrated into the US, Germany, Australia, and other places during the 1950s-60s due to extreme poverty and the islands have been repopulated many times since, by others.

Picking an Ikariote 23andme result without knowing anything about their grandparents, just by going through some notion that certain last names look a certain way (which happens sometimes for some places but it's not the general rule) and then assigning a narrative to this, is comical, to say the least.

There is a reason academic samples take so long to be gathered.

That is all, and have a nice evening.

TLDR: Presenting a narrative without prior knowledge of history (modern or otherwise) and/or family lineages is a bad methodological tool for such broad generalizations.

Johnny ola
07-14-2019, 10:08 PM
It is true that modern islanders are people with many backgrounds.

Communists that exiled there,greek refugees from anatolia,greeks from mainland parts and ofc locals.Also modern greeks are heavily mixed.You don’t know the historic background of every greek ciziten.

It is true btw that mainland greeks are northern shifted due to slavic/balkan admixture when islanders are in halfway or having a southern vibe closer to sicilians,cretans etc.

Johnny ola
07-14-2019, 11:40 PM
Btw the Greek sample and the Central Greek sample are quite northern shifted samples(probably slavic or balkan/I2din etc) influenced samples and if i am not mistaken they do not include islands and southern parts of Greece..

Greekscholar
07-15-2019, 12:35 AM
Yes, Ikaria is the "red island." Fourni has a big Communist festival every May, good times, good wine, fried fish.

It is very important to know the history of the island, and if you know Ikaria, you know samples from American-Ikarians who immigrated in the early 20th century will not have been influenced by the Communist exile. You can also look at family trees and check for ROH to confirm a person's origin. I am new here (sorry to keep saying this) but I,personally, will not make a statement about an island unless I have good samples to examine.

This is all hard stuff to look at and figure out. It doesn't mean it can't be done. What is protocol with posting GEDmatch results without kit numbers? I can post K15,or other GEDmatch calculators, for only Ikarians whose family trees can be confirmed if that is considered OK here.

Johnny ola
07-15-2019, 01:11 AM
Yes, Ikaria is the "red island." Fourni has a big Communist festival every May, good times, good wine, fried fish.

It is very important to know the history of the island, and if you know Ikaria, you know samples from American-Ikarians who immigrated in the early 20th century will not have been influenced by the Communist exile. You can also look at family trees and check for ROH to confirm a person's origin. I am new here (sorry to keep saying this) but I,personally, will not make a statement about an island unless I have good samples to examine.

This is all hard stuff to look at and figure out. It doesn't mean it can't be done. What is protocol with posting GEDmatch results without kit numbers? I can post K15,or other GEDmatch calculators, for only Ikarians whose family trees can be confirmed if that is considered OK here.

Link me on PM if you have any gedmatch from ikaria people.I have not seen so far if i remember well!!!

TonyC
07-15-2019, 01:23 AM
Btw the Greek sample and the Central Greek sample are quite northern shifted samples(probably slavic or balkan/I2din etc) influenced samples and if i am not mistaken they do not include islands and southern parts of Greece..

Let me clarify the Central Greek sample is much more Island like in general because it may include the Sporades so it isn't really very "Northern." Southern Greek geographically does not equate with "Southern" shifted genetically unless you're talking about Mani and/or one very specific region of Arcadia (Tsakonia) which is a small section of the SE corner of the region. Primarily speaking Peloponnesians (Southern Greeks) are really no different genetically from Thessalians or NW Greeks (Epirotes) unless you're referencing Maniots or Tsakonians. So when talking about Greece there is really a negligible North to South cline (unlike say Italy).

Sikeliot
07-15-2019, 11:34 AM
Let me clarify the Central Greek sample is much more Island like in general because it may include the Sporades so it isn't really very "Northern." Southern Greek geographically does not equate with "Southern" shifted genetically unless you're talking about Mani and/or one very specific region of Arcadia (Tsakonia) which is a small section of the SE corner of the region. Primarily speaking Peloponnesians (Southern Greeks) are really no different genetically from Thessalians or NW Greeks (Epirotes) unless you're referencing Maniots or Tsakonians. So when talking about Greece there is really a negligible North to South cline (unlike say Italy).

"Central Greek" is from the Sporades I believe, which are genetically similar to Cyclades, Chios, Samos, etc. They are islanders and not mainlanders from a genetic point of view but definitely mainland shifted when compared to say, Crete. So many of the less southern-shifted islands will score this population first.

The other samples like "Greek" and "Greek Thessaly" are indeed northern shifted by comparison.

Sikeliot
07-15-2019, 11:34 AM
It is very important to know the history of the island, and if you know Ikaria, you know samples from American-Ikarians who immigrated in the early 20th century will not have been influenced by the Communist exile.


Correct. They seem to be original islanders and therefore like your result are coming up close to Sicily.

Johnny ola
07-15-2019, 12:17 PM
Let me clarify the Central Greek sample is much more Island like in general because it may include the Sporades so it isn't really very "Northern." Southern Greek geographically does not equate with "Southern" shifted genetically unless you're talking about Mani and/or one very specific region of Arcadia (Tsakonia) which is a small section of the SE corner of the region. Primarily speaking Peloponnesians (Southern Greeks) are really no different genetically from Thessalians or NW Greeks (Epirotes) unless you're referencing Maniots or Tsakonians. So when talking about Greece there is really a negligible North to South cline (unlike say Italy).

As Sikeliot mention if these samples are southern shifted then cretans and some islanders like dodecanese would score them firstly.IMO the central greek sample is between a balkan(lets say) component(probably slavic/I2DIN) or simply vlach and mycenaean like farmers but leaning more northern.As for Mani and Tsakonia they are small populations indeed but they do not plot southern neither northern.IMO they are very south euro populations and maybe the majority of Greek mainland might would be like them before the slavic expansion.

Andrewid
07-15-2019, 01:36 PM
I am just going to say this. Your methodology reeks of certain amateurish mistakes. You attempt to assign patterns in order to fit in your narrative inside a space (Greece in this case) that is characterised by constant large population migrations, internal and external, throughout the twentieth century. Population exchanges, civil war, urbanization and finally modern internal migrations in an age of transportation and ease of relocation skew your initial assumptions.

Your isolated picks mean nothing when you try to apply such sweep and broad generalizations, ie, mainlanders plot like this or islanders plot like that.

In 2019, a good deal of human activity in the islands are actually people from the urban centers moving in for the summer tourist seasons and relocating back to the mainland cities for the winter. A good deal of the so-called 'original' islander population has migrated into the US, Germany, Australia, and other places during the 1950s-60s due to extreme poverty and the islands have been repopulated many times since, by others.

Picking an Ikariote 23andme result without knowing anything about their grandparents, just by going through some notion that certain last names look a certain way (which happens sometimes for some places but it's not the general rule) and then assigning a narrative to this, is comical, to say the least.

There is a reason academic samples take so long to be gathered.

That is all, and have a nice evening.

TLDR: Presenting a narrative without prior knowledge of history (modern or otherwise) and/or family lineages is a bad methodological tool for such broad generalizations.

Absolutely. And when we consider that Athens today has over 30% of the entire Greek population, yet was basically a small village in 1830. And Salonika's recent demographic changes are well documented. Greece's recent history is one of internal and external migrations. So it's very hard to make strict differentiations between mainlanders and islanders. Surnames tell us little except perhaps for the 'oglou' suffix. Cretans are meant to have 'akis' as a suffix but this is hardly a rule. Many Greeks followed a patronymic system which is still evident in Cyprus, but again there are many clan names too. The genetive 'ou' ending is common in ancient and modern Cyprus and we also see it in Mycenaean inscriptions. 'Idas', 'Ides', as a patronymic, has roots from ancient times (even pre-Greek) and its use is attested to in Homer, as well as in ancient Cypriot inscriptions.

The closest people to me in the world as a Cypriot Greek are the Dodecanesians- I mean this not just genetically but culturally and linguistically too. They belong to a common dialect group and share many traditions. Last night Vouli TV showed an interesting programme on Arhipoli in Rhodes. ERT TV has aired a documentary on Arhangelos in Rhodes. In both cases, I might as well have been in a Cypriot Greek village of the Troodos foothills of Cyprus.

These are the links for Greek-speakers, as there are no sub-titles.

https://youtu.be/JxlFXRLErzs

https://youtu.be/-GhAF67A-CM


There is undoubtedly a common cultural area throughout the Aegean, which stretches to Crete and Cyprus. Genetics play a role in terms of the region being the eastern side of a recognised continuum. Common history, language, culture and religion is what makes the area what it is today and it trumps everything else. Given we are 'Akrites', as our folk poetry and oral traditions testify, do we really expect some non-Greeks to understand? Some undoubtedly do as they delve into matters which don't only pertain to genetics.

Greekscholar
07-15-2019, 03:42 PM
Here is what I found for Ikaria and Kalymnos. Unfortunately, there was not as much overlap between MyHeritage and GEDmatch as I had thought, and so I only found 3 individuals with family trees that met the criteria of 4 known grandparents from the same island. I am confident others in the same cousin clusters with ROH would also be evidence of recent descent from only one island, but I will not include them for now. I also can provide more Fourni samples from my immediate family, and should be able to find some Chiotes with good family trees, we will see.

As for the greater issue being debated. This is just genetics, not culture. It is hard to discuss genetics sometimes because of politics, ethnic ties, etc. I don't mean to over value anyone's heritage, or devalue anyone else or their family. I am not saying any of us are "Greeker" than others, or anything like that. I am just personally interested in the settlement history of my family's home island, and DNA genealogy is very helpful in doing this.

Ikaria - 7/8 great-grandparents from Ikaria, 1 from Samos. Eurogenes K15

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 31.29
2 West_Asian 17.07
3 West_Med 15.84
4 Atlantic 13.83
5 Red_Sea 6.36
6 Baltic 6.1
7 North_Sea 5.63
8 South_Asian 3.01
9 Eastern_Euro 0.87


# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 4.67
2 Sephardic_Jewish 6.53
3 East_Sicilian 6.54
4 Central_Greek 6.67
5 Italian_Jewish 7.75
6 Ashkenazi 8.47
7 Algerian_Jewish 8.68
8 Italian_Abruzzo 8.85
9 West_Sicilian 9.46
10 Tunisian_Jewish 10.39
11 Cyprian 10.93
12 Greek 11.66
13 Greek_Thessaly 13.31
14 Libyan_Jewish 13.79
15 Lebanese_Muslim 14.01
16 Tuscan 14.91
17 Syrian 15.27
18 Turkish 15.43
19 Samaritan 17.88
20 Lebanese_Christian 19.01

Kalymnos - 2 brothers. Both with all 8 great-grandparents from Kalymnos.


# Population Percent
1 East_Med 35.87
2 West_Med 18.06
3 West_Asian 16.18
4 Atlantic 11.09
5 Red_Sea 5.52
6 North_Sea 5.39
7 Eastern_Euro 2.62
8 Baltic 2.58
9 South_Asian 2.18
10 Siberian 0.28
11 Oceanian 0.23

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sephardic_Jewish 6.2
2 Italian_Jewish 6.35
3 Algerian_Jewish 6.77
4 South_Italian 7.21
5 Cyprian 7.45
6 Tunisian_Jewish 8.68
7 East_Sicilian 9.72
8 Central_Greek 9.82
9 Ashkenazi 10.95
10 Libyan_Jewish 11.08
11 West_Sicilian 11.93
12 Italian_Abruzzo 12.4
13 Lebanese_Muslim 12.48
14 Syrian 14.08
15 Samaritan 14.67
16 Greek 15.1
17 Lebanese_Christian 15.73
18 Greek_Thessaly 16.37
19 Turkish 16.84
20 Lebanese_Druze 17.01

The other brother.

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 34.48
2 West_Asian 20.24
3 West_Med 17.19
4 North_Sea 8.6
5 Atlantic 6.73
6 Red_Sea 6.21
7 Baltic 4.16
8 Eastern_Euro 1.31
9 South_Asian 0.54
10 Oceanian 0.54

# Population (source) Distance
1 Cyprian 7.82
2 South_Italian 8.7
3 Italian_Jewish 9.34
4 Sephardic_Jewish 9.87
5 Central_Greek 9.88
6 East_Sicilian 10.25
7 Algerian_Jewish 10.91
8 Ashkenazi 11.07
9 Lebanese_Muslim 11.3
10 Tunisian_Jewish 11.67
11 Libyan_Jewish 11.95
12 Syrian 12.92
13 Italian_Abruzzo 13.26
14 Turkish 14.6
15 West_Sicilian 14.67
16 Samaritan 14.76
17 Lebanese_Christian 15.22
18 Assyrian 15.36
19 Greek_Thessaly 15.85
20 Greek 16.14

PS. The above results are the reason I don't prefer K15.....the Oracle on GEDmatch doesn't have enough Greek island samples for me to make any sense of this. Hopefully you all will be able to "read the coffee grounds" and find patterns. If anyone wants any other tests run on these kits, just let me know. I don't feel comfortable posting kit numbers. Also all three individuals are part of cousin clusters that can be traced to their specific islands (incomplete trees help with this) and have ROH for further confirmation.

Ruderico
07-15-2019, 04:57 PM
PS. The above results are the reason I don't prefer K15.....the Oracle on GEDmatch doesn't have enough Greek island samples for me to make any sense of this. Hopefully you all will be able to "read the coffee grounds" and find patterns. If anyone wants any other tests run on these kits, just let me know. I don't feel comfortable posting kit numbers. Also all three individuals are part of cousin clusters that can be traced to their specific islands (incomplete trees help with this) and have ROH for further confirmation.

You can just plot them and see the result, ph2ter has a thread about K15 PCA plot here (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?14675-Eurogenes-EUtest-V2-K15-samples-for-megaplot). That said people from the same location don't need to be very homogenous :)

Greekscholar
07-15-2019, 05:28 PM
You can just plot them and see the result, ph2ter has a thread about K15 PCA plot here (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?14675-Eurogenes-EUtest-V2-K15-samples-for-megaplot). That said people from the same location don't need to be very homogenous :)

Wow! You all have been very busy. I knew there was a thread like that somewhere on here. Thanks for the link.

You are correct, different populations have overlap with each other, even good Oracles are just guesses. I got in the habit early of using MDLP K16 because their Greek reference panel was extensive and meant nearly all the Greeks I found had distances under 5 for at least one of the samples. It is harder for me to understand the admix data without the Oracle. I'll get better though. :)

dosas
07-15-2019, 05:41 PM
Those eurogenes calculators are not very credible in my opinion due to certain biases.

His new G25 is much more serious and credible.

edit: those results you posted have too big distances in single population mode and are of little value since they indicate mixed ancestry. You should focus on the mixed mode oracles, instead.

West Asian and Red Sea numbers show a strong south-eastern pull.

Greekscholar
07-15-2019, 06:15 PM
Those eurogenes calculators are not very credible in my opinion due to certain biases.

His new G25 is much more serious and credible.

edit: those results you posted have too big distances in single population mode and are of little value since they indicate mixed ancestry. You should focus on the mixed mode oracles, instead.

West Asian and Red Sea numbers show a strong south-eastern pull.

Yes, this is exactly my point about the K15 Oracles. Those brothers from Kalymnos have a family tree going back well into the 1800s, including some great-great grandparents, all from Kalymnos. Without any Greek island reference samples, I wouldn't know how to interpret the data. Here is one brother on the MDLP K16

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 43.28
2 Neolithic 26.61
3 Steppe 11.9
4 NearEast 6.87
5 NorthEastEuropean 5.86
6 NorthAfrican 2.44
7 Indian 1.85
8 Oceanic 0.58
9 Australian 0.41
10 SouthEastAsian 0.21

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek (Athens) 5.08
2 Greek (Greece) 5.22
3 Italian (SouthItaly) 5.89
4 Jew (Ashkenazi) 6.49
5 Sicilian (Sicily) 6.72
6 Jew (Bulgaria) 7.12
7 Jew (Ashkenazim) 7.21
8 Jew (Italian) 7.42
9 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 7.86
10 Jew (Turkey) 8.07
11 Maltese (Malta) 8.08
12 Jew (Sephardim) 8.3
13 Italian (Abruzzo) 8.62
14 Greek (Macedonia) 8.68
15 Jew (Algeria) 9.5
16 Jew (Ashkenazi) 9.54
17 Greek (Peloponnes) 9.94
18 Greek (Greece) 10.3
19 Jew (Morocco) 10.34
20 Greek (Azov) 10.52

This Oracle matches him to Greek and Southern Italian populations, like you would expect to see for a person with 8 great-grandparents from the same Greek island. I think what OP and others are looking for is the Admix data, not the Oracle scores. They seem to have their own method of plotting the data and creating their own Oracle, as described by Ruderico.

But yes, one of the theories under discussion here is whether some islands have a stronger "pull" to the Levant than others. These brothers certainly seem to have DNA from that region compared to other Greeks. Whether this is unique to them, their family, their island, is not a question I know the answer to right now.

dosas
07-15-2019, 06:50 PM
Post the mixed oracles/2way/3way/4way, those numbers show Caucasus/Anatolian admixture. Even those distances with MDLP are high for a single population.

Greekscholar
07-15-2019, 07:37 PM
Sure, here is the mixed mode from the first brother from Kalymnos on K15 first, then MDLP K16 second.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 35.87
2 West_Med 18.06
3 West_Asian 16.18
4 Atlantic 11.09
5 Red_Sea 5.52
6 North_Sea 5.39
7 Eastern_Euro 2.62
8 Baltic 2.58
9 South_Asian 2.18
10 Siberian 0.28
11 Oceanian 0.23

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 82.5% Cyprian + 17.5% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.89
2 78% Cyprian + 22% North_Italian @ 2.95
3 81.9% Cyprian + 18.1% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.97
4 82.8% Cyprian + 17.2% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.99
5 83.7% Cyprian + 16.3% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.99
6 83.9% Cyprian + 16.1% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3
7 82.1% Cyprian + 17.9% Spanish_Murcia @ 3
8 62.9% Cyprian + 37.1% West_Sicilian @ 3.04
9 83% Cyprian + 17% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.06
10 84.4% Cyprian + 15.6% Southwest_French @ 3.08
11 82.3% Cyprian + 17.7% Portuguese @ 3.13
12 72.4% Cyprian + 27.6% Tuscan @ 3.14
13 82.1% Cyprian + 17.9% Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.16
14 86.8% Cyprian + 13.2% French_Basque @ 3.21
15 83.1% Cyprian + 16.9% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.28
16 51% South_Italian + 49% Cyprian @ 3.3
17 82.9% Cyprian + 17.1% Spanish_Galicia @ 3.31
18 64.7% Cyprian + 35.3% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.71
19 84.7% Cyprian + 15.3% French @ 3.73
20 71.4% South_Italian + 28.6% Lebanese_Christian @ 3.81

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 43.28
2 Neolithic 26.61
3 Steppe 11.9
4 NearEast 6.87
5 NorthEastEuropean 5.86
6 NorthAfrican 2.44
7 Indian 1.85
8 Oceanic 0.58
9 Australian 0.41
10 SouthEastAsian 0.21

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 63.8% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 36.2% Italian (Bergamo) @ 3.2
2 79% Greek (Athens) + 21% Arab_Israel (Iqrit) @ 3.38
3 83.3% Italian (SouthItaly) + 16.7% Turk (Trabzon) @ 3.44
4 74.1% Greek (Athens) + 25.9% Cypriot (Cyprus) @ 3.45
5 78.8% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 21.2% French (SouthFrance) @ 3.46
6 80.5% Sicilian (Sicily) + 19.5% Turk (Trabzon) @ 3.47
7 75.3% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 24.7% Spanish (Aragon) @ 3.54
8 78.1% Greek (Athens) + 21.9% Lebanese_Christian (Lebanon) @ 3.6
9 81.1% Greek (Athens) + 18.9% Samaritan (Israel) @ 3.64
10 82.2% Italian (SouthItaly) + 17.8% Armenian (Armenia) @ 3.66
11 81.5% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 18.5% Basque (France) @ 3.67
12 79.2% Sicilian (Sicily) + 20.8% Armenian (Armenia) @ 3.7
13 76% Greek (Athens) + 24% Jew (Syria) @ 3.75
14 77.9% Sicilian (Sicily) + 22.1% Georgian (Laz) @ 3.78
15 81.4% Italian (SouthItaly) + 18.6% Georgian (Laz) @ 3.82
16 67.2% Greek (Athens) + 32.8% Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) @ 3.82
17 66.5% Armenian (Vardnis) + 33.5% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 3.82
18 62.1% Italian (Tuscany) + 37.9% Jew (Iraqi) @ 3.88
19 82.1% Greek (Athens) + 17.9% Armenian (Lebanon) @ 3.91
20 77.7% Sicilian (Sicily) + 22.3% Georgian_Abkhazia (Abkhazia) @ 3.91

Mixed mode interprets this person as either Cypriot + Western Europe.....or..........Greek/Southern Italy + Leventine/Caucus. Again, whether this is reflective of relatively recent admixture or ancient admixture I do not know. I do know so far as the family tree goes, this person traces all of their ancestors to Kalymnos in the 1800s.

Greekscholar
07-15-2019, 08:15 PM
I had much better luck with Chios. All have 4 grandparents from Chios, no other known ancestry in their family trees, and ROH. I was wrong before, these Chiotes do form a cousin cluster. Here they are with the K15.

Chios - 4 grandparents from Dafnonas


# Population Percent
1 East_Med 32.11
2 West_Asian 18.19
3 West_Med 16.25
4 North_Sea 10.02
5 Atlantic 7.84
6 Baltic 7.19
7 Red_Sea 6.73
8 Siberian 1.32
9 Oceanian 0.31
10 Eastern_Euro 0.04

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 6.98
2 Central_Greek 7.51
3 East_Sicilian 7.82
4 Ashkenazi 8.64
5 Italian_Jewish 8.95
6 Sephardic_Jewish 9.7
7 Cyprian 10.65
8 Algerian_Jewish 10.82
9 Italian_Abruzzo 11.03
10 Tunisian_Jewish 12.15
11 Libyan_Jewish 12.52
12 West_Sicilian 12.76
13 Greek_Thessaly 12.76
14 Lebanese_Muslim 13.5
15 Greek 13.61
16 Syrian 14.58
17 Turkish 15.57
18 Tuscan 16.87
19 Samaritan 16.89
20 Lebanese_Christian 17.77

Chios - 4 grandparents from Dafnonas. Shares about 400cM with the previous person.

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 31.04
2 West_Asian 19.76
3 West_Med 17.7
4 North_Sea 10.51
5 Atlantic 8.93
6 Red_Sea 5.94
7 Baltic 5.34
8 Northeast_African 0.77
9 Siberian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 6.21
2 Central_Greek 7.02
3 East_Sicilian 7.3
4 Italian_Jewish 8.92
5 Ashkenazi 9.17
6 Sephardic_Jewish 9.86
7 Italian_Abruzzo 10.16
8 Algerian_Jewish 10.99
9 Cyprian 11.3
10 West_Sicilian 12.19
11 Tunisian_Jewish 12.62
12 Greek_Thessaly 12.9
13 Libyan_Jewish 13.05
14 Greek 13.64
15 Lebanese_Muslim 14.28
16 Syrian 15.53
17 Turkish 15.53
18 Tuscan 16.04
19 Samaritan 18.04
20 Assyrian 18.3

Chios - 4 grandparent from Agios Georgios Sykousis. Shares between 70-90cM with the other two.

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 30.75
2 West_Asian 20.31
3 West_Med 16.46
4 Atlantic 11.28
5 North_Sea 10.09
6 Baltic 6.28
7 Red_Sea 3.6
8 Southeast_Asian 0.62
9 Northeast_African 0.52
10 Eastern_Euro 0.07
11 Amerindian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 5.75
2 Central_Greek 6.35
3 East_Sicilian 7.33
4 Italian_Abruzzo 9.03
5 Ashkenazi 9.65
6 Italian_Jewish 9.94
7 Sephardic_Jewish 10.56
8 West_Sicilian 11.47
9 Algerian_Jewish 11.86
10 Greek 12.32
11 Cyprian 12.41
12 Greek_Thessaly 12.46
13 Tunisian_Jewish 13.6
14 Turkish 14.97
15 Libyan_Jewish 15.07
16 Lebanese_Muslim 15.26
17 Tuscan 15.29
18 Syrian 17.05
19 Assyrian 18.72
20 Bulgarian 19.24

Alkaevli
07-15-2019, 08:22 PM
Here are some PCA graphs and admixture charts I've made using over 100 GEDmatch kits from various Greek populations. MDLP World is used because this old calculator looks very similar to Global K25's ancient nMonte models and some qpAdm models, I know it's weird but I think MDLP World is really able to reflect ancient ancestries.

Similarity between MDLP World's components and some ancient populations
CHG ≈ Caucasus_Parsia
EHG + WHG ≈ North_and_East_European
EEF ≈ South_and_West_European + Middle_East
https://abload.de/img/123b8kkn.png

PCA
https://abload.de/img/1ovjky.png
https://abload.de/img/2kmk6s.png

Admixture chart
https://abload.de/img/4lxjib.png

Sikeliot
07-15-2019, 09:35 PM
Those Chios results appear more like the Ikaria samples I have and are close to South Italians. The real difference is that compared to mainlanders, the islands all shift that way because you will not find native mainlanders scoring that close to South Italy.

Those Kalymnians are slightly Cyprus shifted but I've seen variation in Kalymnians and still, South Italy is high up too.

Greekscholar
07-15-2019, 09:36 PM
Very interesting. According to that plot, you do have some overlap between the populations of Cyprus and the Dodecanese, so the two brothers from Kalymnos are within the expected variation. Crete's population seems to include the variations seen in the other island groups, minus only some Dodecanse samples. Clear difference between the mainland and island populations.

I have to laugh a little. MDLP World gives me the lowest Oracle distance of any test on GEDmatch.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 South_and_West_European 40.78
2 Middle_East 24.07
3 Caucaus_Parsia 19.72
4 North_and_East_European 13.5
5 North_Asian 0.88
6 Indian 0.59
7 Sub_Saharian 0.36
8 East_Asian 0.1

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Jew_Romania 2.17
2 Greek_East 5.29
3 Sicilian 5.36
4 Italian-Center 5.52
5 Greek_Center 6.39
6 Greek_South 6.71
7 Italian-South 7
8 Greek_Cretan 7.29
9 Greek_North 7.45
10 Ashkenazim_V 7.85
11 Ashkenazim 9.07
12 Jew_France 9.28
13 Jew_Italia 9.66
14 Sephardim 11.89
15 Greek_Azov 13.26
16 Jew_Algeria 13.78
17 Gagauz 15.18
18 Jew_Morocco 15.54
19 Jew_Tunisia 15.55
20 Italian-North 15.87

Greekscholar
07-15-2019, 09:48 PM
Those Chios results appear more like the Ikaria samples I have and are close to South Italians. The real difference is that compared to mainlanders, the islands all shift that way because you will not find native mainlanders scoring that close to South Italy.

Those Kalymnians are slightly Cyprus shifted but I've seen variation in Kalymnians and still, South Italy is high up too.

The Steppe and NNE percentages crash for Cypriots on MDLP K16. The fact that the brother still has 10%+ in Steppe is in-line with most other island kits I look at. The NEE of 5% and change is pretty low though, which is likely why the Oracle is giving him a high distance to Greek populations,and leaning towards Cyprus in mixed mode, I think. Cyprus-shifted is a good term for it.

Johnny ola
07-15-2019, 10:12 PM
Here are some PCA graphs and admixture charts I've made using over 100 GEDmatch kits from various Greek populations. MDLP World is used because this old calculator looks very similar to Global K25's ancient nMonte models and some qpAdm models, I know it's weird but I think MDLP World is really able to reflect ancient ancestries.

Similarity between MDLP World's components and some ancient populations
CHG ≈ Caucasus_Parsia
EHG + WHG ≈ North_and_East_European
EEF ≈ South_and_West_European + Middle_East
https://abload.de/img/123b8kkn.png

PCA
https://abload.de/img/1ovjky.png
https://abload.de/img/2kmk6s.png

Admixture chart
https://abload.de/img/4lxjib.png

Nice maps.

Greek Pontus and Greek Central Anatolia is the gap between Caucasus and meditteranean/Neolithic.

Sikeliot
07-15-2019, 10:27 PM
The Steppe and NNE percentages crash for Cypriots on MDLP K16. The fact that the brother still has 10%+ in Steppe is in-line with most other island kits I look at. The NEE of 5% and change is pretty low though, which is likely why the Oracle is giving him a high distance to Greek populations,and leaning towards Cyprus in mixed mode, I think. Cyprus-shifted is a good term for it.


You know what is interesting... some Sicilians from Messina and Palermo, and some Calabrians especially also have that "Cyprus" shift too but they are not the regions sampled in the Eurogenes K15 for Sicily.

These are from the north and central parts of Sicily and neighboring Calabria on 23andme... their similarity to the results from Kalymnos and Karpathos I posted initially show those Kalymnians are still within Sicilian/Calabrian range of variation. What do you think? I cannot access GEDmatch right now due to an outage but they are also Cyprus-shifted there too. These results might not be the "norm" for Sicily or Calabria but they exist.. and as we see Kalymnos/Karpathos aren't the "norm" in the Aegean either.

In order: Messina, Messina, Caltanissetta, Reggio Calabria

Messina:
https://i.imgur.com/c9eyM4M.png

https://i.imgur.com/xfSDJMb.png

Caltanissetta:
https://i.imgur.com/Trrrprw.png

Reggio Calabria:
https://i.imgur.com/xmoIXxG.png

Andrewid
07-15-2019, 11:31 PM
Here is a K15 PCA kindly made by Erikl86 for this forum and posted on another thread. I provided the Andrewid Greek Cypriots. Sikeliot provided many of the Aegean islanders. Alkaevli also provided some kits. You will see that many of the Greek Cypriot results (including my own) shift further to the Aegean than the previous median. Look at the intersection with the Dodecanesian results. I would speculate that Rhodians and Kastelorizans shift even closer to Cypriot Greeks, reflecting geography. Erik and I, as well as others, have speculated whether the previous 'Cyprian' median has been influenced by the inclusion of Turkish and Maronite Cypriots. But even that median is still placed on the eastern wing of the central-east Mediterranean cluster.

http://i67.tinypic.com/a5kojo.jpg

But as I said in a previous post on this thread, we must always be mindful of migration patterns in Greece since independence in 1830. Rhodes town, for example, had a huge influx of mainlanders after enosis in 1947.

Davidski has recently stated on this forum that Eurogenes Gedmatch calculators are still a good representation of modern populations though should be avoided to plot ancient ones; that's where Global25 comes into its own.

Sikeliot
07-15-2019, 11:41 PM
Here is a K15 PCA kindly made by Erikl86 for this forum and posted on another thread. I provided the Andrewid Greek Cypriots. Sikeliot provided many of the Aegean islanders. Alkaevli also provided some kits. You will see that many of the Greek Cypriot results (including my own) shift further to the Aegean than the previous median. Look at the intersection with the Dodecanesian results. I would speculate that Rhodians and Kastelorizans shift even closer to Cypriot Greeks, reflecting geography. Erik and I, as well as others, have speculated whether the previous 'Cyprian' median has been influenced by the inclusion of Turkish and Maronite Cypriots. But even that median is still placed on the eastern wing of the central-east Mediterranean cluster.

http://i67.tinypic.com/a5kojo.jpg

Davidski has recently stated on this forum that Eurogenes Gedmatch calculators are still a good representation of modern populations though should be avoided to plot ancient ones; that's where Global25 comes into its own.

What was interesting to me is that Calabrians also have some overlap with Dodecanese, or at least, have similar 'outlying' tendencies toward Cyprus.

And even with variation, none of these bar some North Aegean islanders, plot with mainland Greeks. The difference between mainland Greeks vs. Aegean/South Italy is stark.

Sikeliot
07-16-2019, 01:24 AM
Ok now that GEDmatch is working, I also put some Rhodians in here so people can see some of their variation.

Rhodes:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 28.46
2 West_Asian 20.01
3 West_Med 17.95
4 North_Sea 11.08
5 Baltic 8.53
6 Red_Sea 7.42
7 Atlantic 3.97
8 Eastern_Euro 1.09
9 Amerindian 0.64
10 South_Asian 0.44
11 Oceanian 0.41

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Central_Greek 9.32
2 East_Sicilian 9.87
3 Ashkenazi 9.97
4 South_Italian 10.3
5 Greek_Thessaly 12.34
6 Italian_Jewish 12.85
7 Italian_Abruzzo 13.1
8 Sephardic_Jewish 13.78
9 Cyprian 13.82
10 Greek 14.48
11 Algerian_Jewish 14.56
12 Libyan_Jewish 15.28
13 West_Sicilian 15.47
14 Lebanese_Muslim 16.08
15 Tunisian_Jewish 16.16
16 Turkish 16.24
17 Syrian 16.49
18 Tuscan 18.08
19 Assyrian 19.16
20 Samaritan 19.54

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 63.2% Greek_Thessaly + 36.8% Assyrian @ 6.43
2 65.9% Greek_Thessaly + 34.1% Kurdish_Jewish @ 6.53
3 64.8% Greek_Thessaly + 35.2% Armenian @ 6.61
4 65% Greek_Thessaly + 35% Georgian_Jewish @ 6.63
5 66.8% Greek_Thessaly + 33.2% Iranian_Jewish @ 7.12
6 65.6% Greek_Thessaly + 34.4% Lebanese_Christian @ 7.14
7 58.9% Greek_Thessaly + 41.1% Lebanese_Muslim @ 7.19
8 59.7% Greek_Thessaly + 40.3% Syrian @ 7.26
9 54.1% Greek_Thessaly + 45.9% Cyprian @ 7.3
10 77.2% Central_Greek + 22.8% Armenian @ 7.49
11 64.9% Greek_Thessaly + 35.1% Samaritan @ 7.54
12 74.8% East_Sicilian + 25.2% Armenian @ 7.57
13 76.4% Central_Greek + 23.6% Assyrian @ 7.57
14 77.9% Central_Greek + 22.1% Georgian_Jewish @ 7.61
15 74.6% Ashkenazi + 25.4% Armenian @ 7.67
16 79.2% Central_Greek + 20.8% Kurdish_Jewish @ 7.74
17 75.8% East_Sicilian + 24.2% Georgian_Jewish @ 7.83
18 74.6% East_Sicilian + 25.4% Assyrian @ 7.88
19 80.2% Central_Greek + 19.8% Iranian_Jewish @ 7.91
20 74.7% Central_Greek + 25.3% Syrian @ 7.92


Rhodes:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 31.02
2 West_Asian 19.53
3 West_Med 16.62
4 Baltic 8.9
5 North_Sea 8.18
6 Red_Sea 7.36
7 Atlantic 6.41
8 Oceanian 0.92
9 Eastern_Euro 0.79
10 South_Asian 0.24
11 Amerindian 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Central_Greek 8.33
2 South_Italian 8.45
3 East_Sicilian 8.83
4 Ashkenazi 9.28
5 Cyprian 10.75
6 Italian_Jewish 10.79
7 Sephardic_Jewish 11.09
8 Algerian_Jewish 12.21
9 Italian_Abruzzo 12.32
10 Greek_Thessaly 13.09
11 Tunisian_Jewish 13.28
12 Lebanese_Muslim 13.41
13 Greek 13.7
14 Libyan_Jewish 13.79
15 West_Sicilian 14.19
16 Syrian 14.31
17 Turkish 15.01
18 Samaritan 17.05
19 Assyrian 17.4
20 Lebanese_Christian 17.94

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 55.9% Cyprian + 44.1% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.93
2 60.6% Greek_Thessaly + 39.4% Kurdish_Jewish @ 5.02
3 58.8% Greek_Thessaly + 41.2% Lebanese_Christian @ 5.15
4 50.7% Greek_Thessaly + 49.3% Lebanese_Muslim @ 5.16
5 58.1% Greek_Thessaly + 41.9% Assyrian @ 5.26
6 74.2% Central_Greek + 25.8% Kurdish_Jewish @ 5.28
7 72% Central_Greek + 28% Assyrian @ 5.28
8 74.5% Central_Greek + 25.5% Iranian_Jewish @ 5.4
9 73.1% Central_Greek + 26.9% Lebanese_Christian @ 5.47
10 70.5% East_Sicilian + 29.5% Assyrian @ 5.51
11 66.3% Central_Greek + 33.7% Lebanese_Muslim @ 5.55
12 60.9% Greek_Thessaly + 39.1% Iranian_Jewish @ 5.56
13 68.1% Central_Greek + 31.9% Syrian @ 5.58
14 76.5% Cyprian + 23.5% Moldavian @ 5.62
15 70.2% Cyprian + 29.8% Romanian @ 5.64
16 59.9% Central_Greek + 40.1% Cyprian @ 5.65
17 80.4% Cyprian + 19.6% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 5.66
18 75% Central_Greek + 25% Georgian_Jewish @ 5.68
19 72.6% Central_Greek + 27.4% Samaritan @ 5.7
20 78.1% Cyprian + 21.9% Hungarian @ 5.73



Rhodes:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 30.57
2 West_Asian 20.69
3 West_Med 17.54
4 North_Sea 11.48
5 Red_Sea 7.43
6 Atlantic 5.95
7 Baltic 5.42
8 Southeast_Asian 0.51
9 Oceanian 0.38
10 Eastern_Euro 0.04

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 9
2 Central_Greek 9.01
3 East_Sicilian 9.36
4 Ashkenazi 10.19
5 Italian_Jewish 10.84
6 Sephardic_Jewish 11.79
7 Cyprian 11.88
8 Italian_Abruzzo 12.27
9 Algerian_Jewish 12.93
10 Libyan_Jewish 13.64
11 Greek_Thessaly 13.83
12 Tunisian_Jewish 14.17
13 Lebanese_Muslim 14.22
14 West_Sicilian 14.58
15 Syrian 15.05
16 Turkish 15.35
17 Greek 15.44
18 Assyrian 17.63
19 Samaritan 17.86
20 Tuscan 17.9

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 71.4% East_Sicilian + 28.6% Armenian @ 6
2 71.7% Central_Greek + 28.3% Assyrian @ 6.22
3 73.3% Central_Greek + 26.7% Armenian @ 6.24
4 74% Central_Greek + 26% Kurdish_Jewish @ 6.24
5 70.4% East_Sicilian + 29.6% Assyrian @ 6.28
6 72.4% East_Sicilian + 27.6% Georgian_Jewish @ 6.37
7 60% Greek_Thessaly + 40% Kurdish_Jewish @ 6.4
8 73.8% South_Italian + 26.2% Armenian @ 6.41
9 74% Central_Greek + 26% Georgian_Jewish @ 6.42
10 57.3% Greek_Thessaly + 42.7% Assyrian @ 6.53
11 73.4% East_Sicilian + 26.6% Kurdish_Jewish @ 6.59
12 74.7% South_Italian + 25.3% Georgian_Jewish @ 6.64
13 74.1% Central_Greek + 25.9% Lebanese_Christian @ 6.68
14 75.8% Central_Greek + 24.2% Iranian_Jewish @ 6.71
15 73.2% South_Italian + 26.8% Assyrian @ 6.75
16 69.4% Central_Greek + 30.6% Syrian @ 6.79
17 67.8% Central_Greek + 32.2% Lebanese_Muslim @ 6.79
18 79.3% Italian_Jewish + 20.7% Georgian @ 6.8
19 55.3% Cyprian + 44.7% Greek_Thessaly @ 6.89
20 70.2% Ashkenazi + 29.8% Armenian @ 6.9



Rhodes:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 34.69
2 West_Asian 20.38
3 West_Med 16.58
4 Baltic 8.73
5 Atlantic 7.98
6 Red_Sea 4.78
7 Eastern_Euro 3.99
8 North_Sea 1.44
9 Amerindian 0.76
10 Oceanian 0.49
11 South_Asian 0.18

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Cyprian 7.97
2 South_Italian 10.73
3 Sephardic_Jewish 11.59
4 Central_Greek 11.6
5 Lebanese_Muslim 12.09
6 East_Sicilian 12.37
7 Italian_Jewish 12.47
8 Algerian_Jewish 12.48
9 Ashkenazi 12.81
10 Tunisian_Jewish 12.89
11 Syrian 14.12
12 Turkish 14.39
13 Greek 15.18
14 Italian_Abruzzo 15.31
15 Libyan_Jewish 15.46
16 Samaritan 15.63
17 Assyrian 15.77
18 Lebanese_Christian 16.06
19 West_Sicilian 16.13
20 Greek_Thessaly 17.15

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 77.9% Cyprian + 22.1% Bulgarian @ 4.93
2 69.8% Cyprian + 30.2% Greek @ 5
3 87.3% Cyprian + 12.7% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 5
4 87.5% Cyprian + 12.5% Russian_Smolensk @ 5.07
5 88.7% Cyprian + 11.3% Lithuanian @ 5.08
6 87.6% Cyprian + 12.4% Southwest_Russian @ 5.1
7 88.2% Cyprian + 11.8% Estonian_Polish @ 5.15
8 84.4% Cyprian + 15.6% Moldavian @ 5.16
9 88.2% Cyprian + 11.8% Belorussian @ 5.18
10 85.4% Cyprian + 14.6% Croatian @ 5.19
11 87.4% Cyprian + 12.6% South_Polish @ 5.28
12 87.5% Cyprian + 12.5% Ukrainian @ 5.28
13 87.2% Cyprian + 12.8% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 5.3
14 88.5% Cyprian + 11.5% Erzya @ 5.32
15 80.7% Cyprian + 19.3% Romanian @ 5.32
16 88.2% Cyprian + 11.8% Polish @ 5.35
17 88.6% Cyprian + 11.4% Kargopol_Russian @ 5.46
18 89.5% Cyprian + 10.5% Estonian @ 5.6
19 74.5% Cyprian + 25.5% Greek_Thessaly @ 5.75
20 86.8% Cyprian + 13.2% Hungarian @ 5.78

Sikeliot
07-16-2019, 04:32 AM
But I definitely agree that Cypriots are not Levantine themselves and are genetically the easternmost extent of the East Med continuum. I myself have gotten carried away overstating the Levantine input in these populations which is present but not predominant.

TonyC
07-16-2019, 08:57 AM
But I definitely agree that Cypriots are not Levantine themselves and are genetically the easternmost extent of the East Med continuum. I myself have gotten carried away overstating the Levantine input in these populations which is present but not predominant.

Someone else did spectrum groupings from East Med to Central Med which I thought was pretty interesting. Which Islands would be in the Easternmost quadrant?

Sikeliot
07-16-2019, 11:27 AM
Someone else did spectrum groupings from East Med to Central Med which I thought was pretty interesting. Which Islands would be in the Easternmost quadrant?

IMO some Dodecanese and Calabrians (not a Greek island but still), some isolated people in northern and central Sicily, and obviously Cyprus would be the most eastern plotting, followed next by Crete, most of Sicily, Ikaria, and fully native people from Chios. Then the ones shifted toward mainland Greece would be some other North Aegeans, some Cyclades, and Apulians in south Italy.

There are some people in the geographic central Mediterranean who genetically plot further east than people in the geographic east and so on so it really depends on migration patterns.

Interestingly I do not notice the Rhodians I found being as "Cypriot" shifted as Kalymnians and Karpathians. They seemed, if anything, like slightly Caucasus-shifted Calabrians. And then we have some people in other smaller Dodecanese islands like Tilos and Patmos who shift toward the mainland. So there is variation WITHIN island chains.

Greekscholar
07-16-2019, 04:30 PM
I plotted the kits I posted yesterday. I added three more for Fourni (Dad, Yia Yia, aunt.) The individuals from each island are at least distantly related to others from that same island. The samples from Kalymnos and Fourni are immediate family, so should be expected to plot very close to each other.

Andrewid
07-16-2019, 07:38 PM
I plotted the kits I posted yesterday. I added three more for Fourni (Dad, Yia Yia, aunt.) The individuals from each island are at least distantly related to others from that same island. The samples from Kalymnos and Fourni are immediate family, so should be expected to plot very close to each other.

It would be interesting to see some K36 similarity maps from these Aegean islanders. Here is mine- my closest matches are to the Dodecanese at 85%. I do have some distant origins from Symi but other Cypriots also have a high match. My closest match in the Levant is Lebanon at 72%. It's interesting to observe a closer match to Calabria (77%) than to nearby Lebanon! Note how the map nicely outlines the Mediterranean genetic continuum. Notice also the spike with the Pontus. I have also seen Dodecanesians with this spike. Both Cypriot Greeks and Dodecanesians also have a high percentage match with Cappadocian Greeks, who act as a kind of bridge to the Pontus.

http://i63.tinypic.com/xdb57n.jpg

Greekscholar
07-16-2019, 08:47 PM
Sure. From left to right.....

Here is me. You will note I am not a particularly strong match to any one place compared to some others. Just sort of generalized "Southern Mediterranean" according to this test.

I included North Africa because I do think I am stronger match there than most Greeks I have seen, and one of my personal mysteries.

Next is my Yia Yia. She scores higher percents all over the Mediterranean continuum. Lastly, there is my aunt (dad's sister). A very strong match to the continuum.

Greekscholar
07-16-2019, 09:19 PM
Here is the 7/8 Ikarian. Notice the "Pontus spike" with this kit as well. This map may also show the Cyclades tilt toward the mainland that Sikeliot has mentioned seeing in his research.

Andrewid
07-16-2019, 09:19 PM
Sure. From left to right.....

Here is me. You will note I am not a particularly strong match to any one place compared to some others. Just sort of generalized "Southern Mediterranean" according to this test.

I included North Africa because I do think I am stronger match there than most Greeks I have seen, and one of my personal mysteries.

Next is my Yia Yia. She scores higher percents all over the Mediterranean continuum. Lastly, there is my aunt (dad's sister). A very strong match to the continuum.

Thanks for these. These maps clearly show the Mediterranean genetic continuum and how clearly your family is placed within it. Aegean-like populations with a substantial common core of deep ancestry. Fascinating to see how you and your relatives' percentage matches really dip after Cyprus. My dip starts taking place only after the Levantine coast i.e Lebanon. All borne out on K15 PCAs. Our Tunisian results are identical at 50!

Andrewid
07-16-2019, 09:24 PM
Here is the 7/8 Ikarian. Notice the "Pontus spike" with this kit as well. This map may also show the Cyclades tilt toward the mainland that Sikeliot has mentioned seeing in his research.

Fascinating. Really interesting to see the Ikarian has a similar spike in the Pontus to me, and much lower match to the more geographically contiguous Anatolian Turkic populations. Out of interest what does this Ikarian score in the Levant?

I wonder how typical this person is even if 7/8 Ikarian.

Greekscholar
07-16-2019, 09:35 PM
Thanks for these. These maps clearly show the Mediterranean genetic continuum and how clearly your family is placed within it. Aegean-like populations with a substantial common core of deep ancestry. Fascinating to see how you and your relatives' percentage matches really dip after Cyprus. My dip starts taking place only after the Levantine coast i.e Lebanon. All borne out on K15 PCAs. Our Tunisian results are identical at 50!

Yes, it is really neat to be able to visualize the connection. I think these maps also help show how difficult it can be for these testing services to get your ethnicity exactly correct. I will post more K36s when I have a chance.

I not completely convinced this Ikarian sample is the norm, but it is the one I could confirm ancestry with a family tree. His last name is Phanariote, and his family tree has colorized portrait pictures in it that go back well into the 19th century. At least part of his family may have been prestigious people He is part of a strong endogamic cousin cluster with high ROH, which makes it very likely they are Ikarian too, I just can't confirm it, and for now I am sticking with kits with trees attached.

Andrewid
07-16-2019, 09:53 PM
Yes, it is really neat to be able to visualize the connection. I think these maps also help show how difficult it can be for these testing services to get your ethnicity exactly correct. I will post more K36s when I have a chance.

I not completely convinced this Ikarian sample is the norm, but it is the one I could confirm ancestry with a family tree. His last name is Phanariote, and his family tree has portrait pictures in it that go back well into the 19th century. At least part of his family may have been prestigious people He is part of a strong endogamic cousin matches with high ROH, which makes it very likely they are Ikarian too, I just can't confirm it, and for now I am sticking with kits with trees attached.

Phanariote would indicate a very prestigious pedigree along the male line!

Greekscholar
07-16-2019, 10:03 PM
Yes, and that is the one great-grandfather from Samos originally, not Ikaria.

Sikeliot
07-16-2019, 10:50 PM
It would be interesting to see some K36 similarity maps from these Aegean islanders. Here is mine- my closest matches are to the Dodecanese at 85%. I do have some distant origins from Symi but other Cypriots also have a high match. My closest match in the Levant is Lebanon at 72%. It's interesting to observe a closer match to Calabria (77%) than to nearby Lebanon! Note how the map nicely outlines the Mediterranean genetic continuum. Notice also the spike with the Pontus. I have also seen Dodecanesians with this spike. Both Cypriot Greeks and Dodecanesians also have a high percentage match with Cappadocian Greeks, who act as a kind of bridge to the Pontus.

http://i63.tinypic.com/xdb57n.jpg

I remember when I put Calabrian kits through, they had a high match to both Dodecanese and Cyprus also, so it goes both ways.

Cyprus is more Levant-shifted than Sicily, Calabria, or Dodecanese though. All of these usually score Lebanon in the 60% range or so.

Agamemnon
07-16-2019, 10:50 PM
Sure. From left to right.....

Here is me. You will note I am not a particularly strong match to any one place compared to some others. Just sort of generalized "Southern Mediterranean" according to this test.

I included North Africa because I do think I am stronger match there than most Greeks I have seen, and one of my personal mysteries.

Next is my Yia Yia. She scores higher percents all over the Mediterranean continuum. Lastly, there is my aunt (dad's sister). A very strong match to the continuum.

I cannot help but notice how close your results are to my father's, compare for instance his K36 similarity map to your own:

https://i.imgur.com/bWpuKCN.png

Not trying to derail this thread (which is a great read so far), but this along with the results you've posted from Fourni, Chios, Ikaria and Kalymnos does confirm my deep-seated conviction that Ashkenazi Jews ultimately resemble Aegean Greeks more closely than they do Sicilians and South Italians. That being said my father is not entirely Ashkenazi, he's around 25% Krymchak (not sure if that's a factor, theoretically this draws him closer to Italian and Romaniote Jews).

It is results such as these, eerily similar to what is seen in present-day Western Jewry, that give weight to models placing Western Jewish ethnogenesis in Hellenistic Jewry.

Sikeliot
07-16-2019, 11:07 PM
Not trying to derail this thread (which is a great read so far), but this along with the results you've posted from Fourni, Chios, Ikaria and Kalymnos does confirm my deep-seated conviction that Ashkenazi Jews ultimately resemble Aegean Greeks more closely than they do Sicilians and South Italians.

What is your explanation for why this is? And what genetic components make this so?

I would imagine Slavic input would play a role, as Aegean islanders still have some, but I don't think any certain distinction can be drawn between Aegean islanders and southern Italians to begin with.

Agamemnon
07-16-2019, 11:29 PM
What is your explanation for why this is? And what genetic components make this so?

I would imagine Slavic input would play a role, as Aegean islanders still have some, but I don't think any certain distinction can be drawn between Aegean islanders and southern Italians to begin with.

I've said this elsewhere, but I'll repeat it if needed: I am not the most enthusiastic proponent of the models which point to Hellenistic Jews as the parent population of Western Jewry (even though it makes a lot of sense on historical grounds). More ancient genomic data will be needed to ask more important questions, that being said I'll be the first to admit that some of the results from the upcoming paper on Iron Age and Roman Italy make such models much more likely to be true.

The most straightforward explanation I would give in the absence of ancient data is that this is largely coincidental and ultimately the result of a similar mixture of ancient populations. While Slavic admixture definitely is a factor, we're dealing with the less Slavic-shifted side of the continuum here, and so I think that the more elevated amount of Iran_ChL-type ancestry possibly along with something resembling Levant_BA_North is more of a factor... But again, such results do get you thinking.

I agree that the distinction between present-day Aegean Greeks and South Italians is tenuous to begin with, these are all very similar populations which are bound to share a lot of ancestry. However one of the clearer differences is the West Asian pull in the former compared to greater EF and potentially North African affinities in the latter.

Sikeliot
07-16-2019, 11:43 PM
I agree that the distinction between present-day Aegean Greeks and South Italians is tenuous to begin with, these are all very similar populations which are bound to share a lot of ancestry. However one of the clearer differences is the West Asian pull in the former compared to greater EF and potentially North African affinities in the latter.

I think we have to be clear what you're talking about really is SICILIANS. Calabrians also seem more "West Asian" shifted and less Arabian/North African shifted, which seemingly puts them more like an Aegean population... they also have very little North European (less than Sicilians or Cretans). And of course Apulians aren't part of the discussion since they plot closer to Peloponnesians.

Calabrians, on the other hand, are IMO much closer to the Dodecanese, potentially even closer to them than to Sicilians from Trapani and Syracuse (our overused "West" and "East" Sicily samples). I'd even say the same for some people from Messina and Palermo who IMO are closer to the Dodecanese rather than to Trapanese.

See these... If I didn't tell you, you might think these were from the Dodecanese.

Cosenza:


https://i.imgur.com/7r8WdVI.png


Reggio Calabria:


https://i.imgur.com/BHQOMed.png


Vibo Valentia:


https://i.imgur.com/SQTuTiS.png


Vibo Valentia:


https://i.imgur.com/Pkh2xcz.png


Crotone:


https://i.imgur.com/LLQW7Lv.png

Greekscholar
07-17-2019, 01:08 AM
I cannot help but notice how close your results are to my father's, compare for instance his K36 similarity map to your own:

https://i.imgur.com/bWpuKCN.png

Not trying to derail this thread (which is a great read so far), but this along with the results you've posted from Fourni, Chios, Ikaria and Kalymnos does confirm my deep-seated conviction that Ashkenazi Jews ultimately resemble Aegean Greeks more closely than they do Sicilians and South Italians. That being said my father is not entirely Ashkenazi, he's around 25% Krymchak (not sure if that's a factor, theoretically this draws him closer to Italian and Romaniote Jews).

It is results such as these, eerily similar to what is seen in present-day Western Jewry, that give weight to models placing Western Jewish ethnogenesis in Hellenistic Jewry.

I appreciate the sidetrack, that 600+ post thread on the Jewish forum is both fascinating, and much too long for me to read all of it. :)

I think the reason I am such a close to match to Jewish (and Italian) populations is in part because I have much more North African admixture than other Greeks. The calculators you all prefer here don't show it as clearly as MDLP does. I score more than 5% North African on the K16. The Greeks on their extensive reference panel are all 2.1% or below. The only European populations who show this high amount on that test are Jewish or Iberian. Only 1.5% of testers in Greece get regular North African (not Sephardi) on MyHeritage. I am one of them.

I don't know where it from, only that my dad and I score about the same (he even got North Africa on Ancestry.com pre-updage.) My Yia Yia and aunt do on some tests, and not others (but are still well above reference panel averages). I have found Greeks that break 4%, but none higher. Fourni is "the pirate island" and from my research, the pirates that operated around the island included the Maltese. Makes me wonder. I don't think I have any Jewish ancestors. I don't find any Jewish cousin matches either so far as I can tell.

I don't know the answer to the question of Aegean vs. Italian elements in European Jewish populations, but in deep admixture, all three groups look really similar. There has to be something behind it.

Sikeliot
07-17-2019, 01:30 AM
I think the reason I am such a close to match to Jewish (and Italian) populations is in part because I have much more North African admixture than other Greeks. The calculators you all prefer here don't show it as clearly as MDLP does. I score more than 5% North African on the K16. The Greeks on their extensive reference panel are all 2.1% or below. The only European populations who show this high amount on that test are Jewish or Iberian. Only 1.5% of testers in Greece get regular North African (not Sephardi) on MyHeritage. I am one of them.

Could be.

On a similar note I notice some people in western Sicily and Malta (where North African input is highest) shifted toward Moroccan Jews on GEDMatch calculators.

Sikeliot
07-17-2019, 03:12 AM
Also helpful is here is one of the Rhodians on MDLP K23 where there are good breakdowns of various SE European groups. The 4 I posted seem to score similarly to this.


# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 40.39
2 European_Early_Farmers 21.41
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 11.19
4 Near_East 11.17
5 South_Central_Asian 8.26
6 North_African 3.25
7 Ancestral_Altaic 1.54
8 Tungus-Altaic 1.03


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Cretan_ @ 3.337374
2 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 4.889735
3 Romanian_Jew_ @ 6.076877
4 Italian_South_ @ 6.156318
5 Greek_Athens_ @ 6.231882
6 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 6.543906
7 Sicilian_East_ @ 6.668507
8 Greek_ @ 7.009778
9 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 7.036495
10 Greek_Islands_ @ 7.120008
11 Ashkenazi_ @ 7.257420
12 Sicilian_West_ @ 7.450865
13 Greek_Phokaia_ @ 7.565768
14 Sicilian_Center_ @ 8.159245
15 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 8.449975
16 French_Jew_ @ 8.691329
17 Central_Greek_ @ 8.896250
18 Turk_Balikesir_ @ 8.986529
19 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 9.150601
20 Greek_Macedonia_ @ 9.419311

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Cypriot_ +50% Greek_Northwest_ @ 2.469837


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Greek_Athens_ +25% Iraqi_Chaldean_ +25% Italian_Tuscan_ @ 1.483982

Michalis Moriopoulos
07-17-2019, 04:00 AM
Here are some PCA graphs and admixture charts I've made using over 100 GEDmatch kits from various Greek populations. MDLP World is used because this old calculator looks very similar to Global K25's ancient nMonte models and some qpAdm models, I know it's weird but I think MDLP World is really able to reflect ancient ancestries.

Thanks for this. Just curious, any info on the Northeast Anatolian Greek kits? I assume these are "Eastern Anatolian Greeks" (mentioned in this Wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontic_Greeks#Eastern_Anatolia_Greeks)) and not Caucasus Greeks. It would be nice to see Caucasian Greeks, too, though I expect they'd look just like the others from the same general area.

There are a few Greek populations still missing from our analyses because we don't have anything public to work with. We can make some inferences, thankfully. Based on what I've seen, Western Anatolian Greeks are similar to Aegean Greeks. I haven't seen anything at all on Northern Pontic Greeks (Ukraine, the Crimea) and don't know what to make of them. We know Grikos are very similar to Southern Italians and Aegean islanders. Karamanlides would probably look just like Cappadocian Greeks. Missing anybody?

Sikeliot
07-17-2019, 04:11 AM
Thanks for this. Just curious, any info on the Northeast Anatolian Greek kits? I assume these are "Eastern Anatolian Greeks" (mentioned in this Wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontic_Greeks#Eastern_Anatolia_Greeks)) and not Caucasus Greeks. It would be nice to see Caucasian Greeks, too, though I expect they'd look just like the others from the same general area.

There are a few Greek populations still missing from our analyses because we don't have anything public to work with. We can make some inferences, thankfully. Based on what I've seen, Western Anatolian Greeks are similar to Aegean Greeks. I haven't seen anything at all on Northern Pontic Greeks (Ukraine, the Crimea) and don't know what to make of them. We know Grikos are very similar to Southern Italians and Aegean islanders. Karamanlides would probably look just like Cappadocian Greeks. Missing anybody?

One island I want to see is Lemnos but I suspect they will be similar to some of the more "north shifted" islanders we've seen so far.

dosas
07-17-2019, 04:13 AM
snip
http://i63.tinypic.com/xdb57n.jpg

Here's my K36 similarity map, it's very close to yours.

https://i.ibb.co/CB63FJn/dosas-K36.png

Of course, I am not islander or southern Greek, I am of mixed ancestry, half Northern Greek and half Pontic Greek. My high CHG (compared to my father) is pulling me south. As a result, in this tool, I plot like Cyclades.


I haven't seen anything at all on Northern Pontic Greeks (Ukraine, the Crimea) and don't know what to make of them.

My maternal grandfather was from Sevastopol from both families, afaik, but unfortunately he passed away so obviously he cannot be tested. From what I can extrapolate from my own/family results and calculators, I think he would have scored very high Alanic/Ossetian/Northern Georgian. Obviously, the Crimean Greeks are a diverse bunch, but maybe that can give you an idea of some of their admixture origin.

Erikl86
07-17-2019, 08:32 AM
Pretty late comer to the party :)

EDIT: Saw that Andrew already posted it

Johnny ola
07-17-2019, 10:03 AM
Thanks for this. Just curious, any info on the Northeast Anatolian Greek kits? I assume these are "Eastern Anatolian Greeks" (mentioned in this Wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontic_Greeks#Eastern_Anatolia_Greeks)) and not Caucasus Greeks. It would be nice to see Caucasian Greeks, too, though I expect they'd look just like the others from the same general area.

There are a few Greek populations still missing from our analyses because we don't have anything public to work with. We can make some inferences, thankfully. Based on what I've seen, Western Anatolian Greeks are similar to Aegean Greeks. I haven't seen anything at all on Northern Pontic Greeks (Ukraine, the Crimea) and don't know what to make of them. We know Grikos are very similar to Southern Italians and Aegean islanders. Karamanlides would probably look just like Cappadocian Greeks. Missing anybody?

Crimean AKA Azov Greeks if i am not mistaken are pretty much caucasus people but some of them mixed with slavs etc.

Karamanlides are a mystery...never seen a kit or something before from them.

Western Anatolian Greeks are very mycenaean like group indeed.

Pontians are coming like 60-65% Caucasus and the rest is mostly anatolian neolithic with some Levant_N.

Erikl86
07-17-2019, 10:12 AM
I cannot help but notice how close your results are to my father's, compare for instance his K36 similarity map to your own:

https://i.imgur.com/bWpuKCN.png

Not trying to derail this thread (which is a great read so far), but this along with the results you've posted from Fourni, Chios, Ikaria and Kalymnos does confirm my deep-seated conviction that Ashkenazi Jews ultimately resemble Aegean Greeks more closely than they do Sicilians and South Italians. That being said my father is not entirely Ashkenazi, he's around 25% Krymchak (not sure if that's a factor, theoretically this draws him closer to Italian and Romaniote Jews).

It is results such as these, eerily similar to what is seen in present-day Western Jewry, that give weight to models placing Western Jewish ethnogenesis in Hellenistic Jewry.

And I will just add mine:

http://i63.tinypic.com/28b5nnr.jpg

And here's an average of 40 Ashkenazi Jews:

http://i63.tinypic.com/t5nm89.jpg

dosas
07-17-2019, 10:48 AM
Crimean AKA Azov Greeks if i am not mistaken are pretty much caucasus people but some of them mixed with slavs etc.


Crimean Greeks have also Peloponnesian roots (Catherine the Great moved them there to strengthen the Christian element in 1783, after her victory against the Ottomans).

Some are also mixed with Tatar groups, the Urums.

Sikeliot
07-17-2019, 11:28 AM
And I will just add mine:

http://i63.tinypic.com/28b5nnr.jpg

And here's an average of 40 Ashkenazi Jews:

http://i63.tinypic.com/t5nm89.jpg

Looks like overall they're slightly closer to South Italians and Cretans.

I wonder if you agree, based on your observations, with my view about Calabrians. I definitely think they can be genetically differentiated from Sicilians and in some ways come out more like a South Aegean islands population. The North African dropping off to minimal levels might play a part.

dosas
07-17-2019, 11:51 AM
And I will just add mine:

snip

And here's an average of 40 Ashkenazi Jews:

snip

The Greek Aegeans/Myceneans are really the lost tribe of Dan!

j/k I always found that mythological(?) connection fascinating.

Andrewid
07-17-2019, 01:48 PM
Here's a K36 for a Cappadocian Greek from Nigde. I'm not sure if they are Greek or Turkish-speaking, but I would imagine that they plot in a very similar way. It shows close similarity to the Dodecanese, Crete and Cyprus but also to the Pontus. Cappadocian Greeks actually act as a genetic bridge linking Pontus Greeks (who,btw, are almost identical genetically to their Muslim counterparts) to other Greeks via Cyprus and Crete, as well as the southern and eastern Aegean. This individual's lack of Turkic makes them somewhat closer to southern Italians than to Turkic admixed Anatolians. We again witness a spike in Calabria!

http://i64.tinypic.com/10wllvr.png

Greekscholar
07-17-2019, 02:00 PM
Also helpful is here is one of the Rhodians on MDLP K23 where there are good breakdowns of various SE European groups. The 4 I posted seem to score similarly to this.

Thanks for this. Here is what I mean. My North Africa is over 7% on this test, more than double of this other kit. Only the Cretan reference sample exceeds 4 among all of their different Greek populations.

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 40.8
2 European_Early_Farmers 17.19
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 16.09
4 Near_East 11.04
5 North_African 7.18
6 South_Central_Asian 5.13
7 South_East_Asian 1.23
8 East_African 0.6
9 Ancestral_Altaic 0.55
10 Melano_Polynesian 0.18
11 Archaic_Human 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Cretan ( ) 4.69
2 Romanian_Jew ( ) 5.49
3 Greek_Macedonia ( ) 5.51
4 Greek ( ) 6.16
5 Italian_South ( ) 7.07
6 Ashkenazi ( ) 7.16
7 Gagauz ( ) 7.28
8 Greek_Athens ( ) 7.32
9 Greek_Phokaia ( ) 7.42
10 Syrian_Jew ( ) 7.75
11 Sicilian_East ( ) 8.37
12 Central_Greek ( ) 8.53
13 Sicilian_Center ( ) 8.54
14 Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) 8.61
15 Greek_Smyrna ( ) 8.83
16 Italian_Jew ( ) 8.91
17 Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) 8.95
18 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain ( ) 9.01
19 Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) 9.08
20 Turk_Jew ( ) 9.21

Thank you for the Calabrian samples. They look similar to the ones from my family as well, as do the Jewish samples. My opinion is that if you plot enough individuals, there are patterns that can be found that distinguish between these major ethnic groups, and probably regional/island populations, but on an individual by individual basis there is enough variation that you can't go directly by these tests.

Sikeliot
07-17-2019, 02:05 PM
Thanks for this. Here is what I mean. My North Africa is over 7% on this test, more than double of this other kit. Only the Cretan reference sample exceeds 4 among all of their different Greek populations.

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 40.8
2 European_Early_Farmers 17.19
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 16.09
4 Near_East 11.04
5 North_African 7.18
6 South_Central_Asian 5.13
7 South_East_Asian 1.23
8 East_African 0.6
9 Ancestral_Altaic 0.55
10 Melano_Polynesian 0.18
11 Archaic_Human 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Cretan ( ) 4.69
2 Romanian_Jew ( ) 5.49
3 Greek_Macedonia ( ) 5.51
4 Greek ( ) 6.16
5 Italian_South ( ) 7.07
6 Ashkenazi ( ) 7.16
7 Gagauz ( ) 7.28
8 Greek_Athens ( ) 7.32
9 Greek_Phokaia ( ) 7.42
10 Syrian_Jew ( ) 7.75
11 Sicilian_East ( ) 8.37
12 Central_Greek ( ) 8.53
13 Sicilian_Center ( ) 8.54
14 Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) 8.61
15 Greek_Smyrna ( ) 8.83
16 Italian_Jew ( ) 8.91
17 Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) 8.95
18 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain ( ) 9.01
19 Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) 9.08
20 Turk_Jew ( ) 9.21

Thank you for the Calabrian samples. They look similar to the ones from my family as well, as do the Jewish samples. My opinion is that if you plot enough individuals, there are patterns that can be found that distinguish between these major ethnic groups, and probably regional/island populations, but on an individual by individual basis there is enough variation that you can't go directly by these tests.


Try the above calculator, MDLP K23, with the other oracle? The V4 one or whatever it is called. The second button down. I want to see how it comes out there.

Greekscholar
07-17-2019, 02:07 PM
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 40.80
2 European_Early_Farmers 17.19
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 16.09
4 Near_East 11.04
5 North_African 7.18
6 South_Central_Asian 5.13
7 South_East_Asian 1.23


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Greek_Macedonia_ @ 5.687732
2 Greek_ @ 5.911823
3 Romanian_Jew_ @ 6.608071
4 Ashkenazi_ @ 6.739306
5 Greek_Athens_ @ 6.918998
6 Italian_South_ @ 7.121522
7 Cretan_ @ 7.161091
8 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 7.633179
9 Greek_Phokaia_ @ 7.758248
10 Sicilian_East_ @ 8.671589
11 Central_Greek_ @ 8.679103
12 Greek_Peloponnesos_ @ 9.078461
13 Azov_Greek_ @ 9.509484
14 Sicilian_Center_ @ 9.577141
15 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 9.597427
16 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain_ @ 9.710801
17 Greek_Thessaloniki_ @ 9.877639
18 Greek_Thessaly_ @ 10.585854
19 Sicilian_West_ @ 10.599730
20 Turk_Balikesir_ @ 10.878486

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Christian_Arabs_Israel_ +50% Montenegrian_ @ 2.650501


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Christian_Arabs_Israel_ +25% Gagauz_ +25% South_German_ @ 2.031730


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++
1 Bosnian_ + Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Greek_Thessaloniki_ + Syrian_Jew_ @ 1.944793
2 Azov_Greek_ + Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Croat_BH_ + Moroccan_Jew_ @ 1.951605
3 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Cretan_ + Croat_BH_ + Sicilian_East_ @ 1.985577
4 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Croat_ + Greek_Thessaloniki_ + Syrian_Jew_ @ 1.996458
5 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Greek_Thessaloniki_ + Serb_BH_ + Syrian_Jew_ @ 1.997007
6 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + French_Jew_ + Greek_Islands_ + Ukrainian_East_ @ 2.022503
7 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + French_Jew_ + Greek_Islands_ + Ukrainian_Center_ @ 2.023088
8 Bulgarian_ + Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Gagauz_ + Moroccan_Jew_ @ 2.024561
9 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Gagauz_ + South_German_ @ 2.031730
10 Bulgarian_ + Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Gagauz_ + Turk_Jew_ @ 2.041748
11 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Greek_Northwest_ + Slovenian_ @ 2.042705
12 Bulgarian_ + Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Gagauz_ + Sephardic_Jew_ @ 2.046471
13 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Crimean_Tatar_Coast_ + Moroccan_Jew_ + Slovenian_ @ 2.054351
14 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Greek_Northwest_ + Hungarian_Budapest_ @ 2.055097
15 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Don_cossack_ + French_Jew_ + Greek_Islands_ @ 2.073126
16 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Greek_Northwest_ + Hungarian_ @ 2.074342
17 Bosnian_ + Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Greek_Thessaly_ + Syrian_Jew_ @ 2.074605
18 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Croat_BH_ + Greek_Thessaloniki_ + Syrian_Jew_ @ 2.080814
19 Azov_Greek_ + Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Croat_ + Maltese_ @ 2.087506
20 Albanian_Tirana_ + Bosnian_ + Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Syrian_Jew_ @ 2.087553

Sikeliot
07-17-2019, 02:23 PM
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 40.80
2 European_Early_Farmers 17.19
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 16.09
4 Near_East 11.04
5 North_African 7.18
6 South_Central_Asian 5.13
7 South_East_Asian 1.23


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Greek_Macedonia_ @ 5.687732
2 Greek_ @ 5.911823
3 Romanian_Jew_ @ 6.608071
4 Ashkenazi_ @ 6.739306
5 Greek_Athens_ @ 6.918998
6 Italian_South_ @ 7.121522
7 Cretan_ @ 7.161091
8 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 7.633179
9 Greek_Phokaia_ @ 7.758248
10 Sicilian_East_ @ 8.671589
11 Central_Greek_ @ 8.679103
12 Greek_Peloponnesos_ @ 9.078461
13 Azov_Greek_ @ 9.509484
14 Sicilian_Center_ @ 9.577141
15 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 9.597427
16 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain_ @ 9.710801
17 Greek_Thessaloniki_ @ 9.877639
18 Greek_Thessaly_ @ 10.585854
19 Sicilian_West_ @ 10.599730
20 Turk_Balikesir_ @ 10.878486

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Christian_Arabs_Israel_ +50% Montenegrian_ @ 2.650501


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Christian_Arabs_Israel_ +25% Gagauz_ +25% South_German_ @ 2.031730


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++
1 Bosnian_ + Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Greek_Thessaloniki_ + Syrian_Jew_ @ 1.944793
2 Azov_Greek_ + Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Croat_BH_ + Moroccan_Jew_ @ 1.951605
3 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Cretan_ + Croat_BH_ + Sicilian_East_ @ 1.985577
4 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Croat_ + Greek_Thessaloniki_ + Syrian_Jew_ @ 1.996458
5 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Greek_Thessaloniki_ + Serb_BH_ + Syrian_Jew_ @ 1.997007
6 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + French_Jew_ + Greek_Islands_ + Ukrainian_East_ @ 2.022503
7 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + French_Jew_ + Greek_Islands_ + Ukrainian_Center_ @ 2.023088
8 Bulgarian_ + Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Gagauz_ + Moroccan_Jew_ @ 2.024561
9 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Gagauz_ + South_German_ @ 2.031730
10 Bulgarian_ + Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Gagauz_ + Turk_Jew_ @ 2.041748
11 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Greek_Northwest_ + Slovenian_ @ 2.042705
12 Bulgarian_ + Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Gagauz_ + Sephardic_Jew_ @ 2.046471
13 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Crimean_Tatar_Coast_ + Moroccan_Jew_ + Slovenian_ @ 2.054351
14 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Greek_Northwest_ + Hungarian_Budapest_ @ 2.055097
15 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Don_cossack_ + French_Jew_ + Greek_Islands_ @ 2.073126
16 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Greek_Northwest_ + Hungarian_ @ 2.074342
17 Bosnian_ + Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Greek_Thessaly_ + Syrian_Jew_ @ 2.074605
18 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Croat_BH_ + Greek_Thessaloniki_ + Syrian_Jew_ @ 2.080814
19 Azov_Greek_ + Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Croat_ + Maltese_ @ 2.087506
20 Albanian_Tirana_ + Bosnian_ + Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Syrian_Jew_ @ 2.087553


You're definitely mainland shifted. This is not unexpected for a North Aegean, even though as we know many Ikaria samples are more firmly in the Sicily/Crete cluster. But you did say you have other islands in your ancestry. If that Crete study found Slavic DNA in Crete, surely even more will be in the North Aegean.

Compare to this person from Symi, who is closer to Crete, Sicily, etc. and doesn't score mainland Greeks in their list.



# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 41.11
2 European_Early_Farmers 20.80
3 Near_East 13.81
4 European_Hunters_Gatherers 7.84
5 South_Central_Asian 6.65
6 North_African 6.32


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Cretan_ @ 4.047383
2 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 5.394355
3 Greek_Islands_ @ 5.499853
4 French_Jew_ @ 6.137895
5 Turk_Jew_ @ 6.284096
6 Sicilian_East_ @ 6.294072
7 Italian_Jew_ @ 6.462005
8 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 6.678506
9 Romanian_Jew_ @ 7.287096
10 Italian_South_ @ 7.417118
11 Sicilian_Center_ @ 7.766157
12 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 7.918800
13 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 8.023512
14 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 8.269257
15 Cypriot_ @ 8.342935
16 Ashkenazi_ @ 8.945872
17 Sicilian_West_ @ 9.251010
18 Syrian_Jew_ @ 9.357785
19 Maltese_ @ 9.559108
20 Greek_Phokaia_ @ 9.583094

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Ashkenazi_Jew_ +50% Cypriot_ @ 1.908298


or to this Sicilian from Agrigento.


# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 35.46
2 European_Early_Farmers 20.62
3 Near_East 11.75
4 European_Hunters_Gatherers 11.00
5 North_African 8.50
6 South_Central_Asian 8.06
7 Subsaharian 2.42
8 Ancestral_Altaic 1.39


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sicilian_West_ @ 5.342122
2 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 5.425244
3 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 5.572381
4 Sicilian_East_ @ 6.204354
5 Maltese_ @ 6.520585
6 French_Jew_ @ 6.617984
7 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 7.090582
8 Cretan_ @ 7.135059
9 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 7.245008
10 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 7.877305
11 Turk_Jew_ @ 8.093921
12 Romanian_Jew_ @ 8.331758
13 Ashkenazi_ @ 8.345368
14 Italian_Jew_ @ 8.493056
15 Moroccan_Jew_ @ 9.822159
16 Italian_South_ @ 10.008655
17 Sicilian_Center_ @ 10.054134
18 Turk_Balikesir_ @ 10.550621
19 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 10.555719
20 Greek_Athens_ @ 10.961536

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Crimean_Tatar_Mountain_ +50% Moroccan_Jew_ @ 4.596597

Greekscholar
07-17-2019, 02:34 PM
Here are the two brothers from Kalymnos. Same order as the other data is posted. The first brother is the attachment on the left, second brother on the right. Despite the coversations about them being possible outlyers, this test puts them squarely as 90+ matches to the Dodecanese. "Calabrian spike" there as well. I included most of Asia as well since they match Levatine populations rather strongly as well.

Sikeliot
07-17-2019, 02:40 PM
Here are the two brothers from Kalymnos. Same order as the other data is posted. The first brother is the attachment on the left, second brother on the right. Despite the coversations about them being possible outlyers, this test puts them squarely as 90+ matches to the Dodecanese. "Calabrian spike" there as well. I included most of Asia as well since they match Levatine populations rather strongly as well.

First one matches not just Calabria strongly, but Campania as well. This makes sense, since the southern part of Campania (Salerno, Amalfi Coast area) is genetically similar to Calabria.

They match the Levantine populations at a similar percentage to most Sicilians, Calabrians, Cretans but there may be a strong Anatolian strain that is higher in Calabria, Dodecanese, and Cyprus separate from that which causes those three populations to move in similar directions.

Cyclades always seems to go the way of the mainland though!

Sikeliot
07-17-2019, 03:06 PM
Here are some from the Cyclades. Interestingly none match well with the Cyclades sample, but there is variation. One of these is closer to Peloponnesians than to anyone else. Another is closest to "mainstream" southern Italians and Sicilians. Another is removed from everyone but closest to Apulians.


https://i.imgur.com/qWr60gH.png

https://i.imgur.com/XFIejU2.png

https://i.imgur.com/5y8wpbt.png

I also put the Dodecanese person from Patmos. This person is equidistant between Peloponnesians and South Italians/Dodecanese/Cretans.


https://i.imgur.com/QT9tcKT.png

Samos... even more mainland shifted than the Patmos one, but still matching well with West Sicily and the North Aegean sample and then, other South Italians and Aegean islanders. You can tell this person is still an islander, due to that.


https://i.imgur.com/cPTGJ1k.png

And finally the one from Symi. They have high matches to all the Aegean islands except Cyclades, as well as to Cyprus, Calabria, and again, Campania. Sicily comes next.


https://i.imgur.com/R9416lX.png

Greekscholar
07-17-2019, 03:17 PM
Here is the Chiote from Agios Georgios Sykousis. The closest match is the NE Aegean islands.

Here is the same person on MDLP K23b. Is this the "mainland shift" you speak of too? Is it related to the EHG percent?

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 42.61
2 European_Early_Farmers 20.43
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 12.00
4 Near_East 10.56
5 South_Central_Asian 8.05
6 North_African 3.49


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Cretan_ @ 3.709627
2 Italian_South_ @ 5.176812
3 Greek_Athens_ @ 5.232363
4 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 5.352376
5 Greek_ @ 6.024585
6 Romanian_Jew_ @ 6.301089
7 Greek_Islands_ @ 6.980448
8 Ashkenazi_ @ 7.495592
9 Greek_Phokaia_ @ 7.646770
10 Sicilian_East_ @ 7.695423
11 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 8.029063
12 Sicilian_Center_ @ 8.289689
13 Greek_Macedonia_ @ 8.418470
14 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 8.505277
15 Azov_Greek_ @ 8.522742
16 Central_Greek_ @ 8.620256
17 Sicilian_West_ @ 9.553553
18 Turk_Balikesir_ @ 9.554295
19 French_Jew_ @ 10.147764
20 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain_ @ 10.171687

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Greek_ +50% Greek_Smyrna_ @ 2.297911


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Albanian_Tirana_ +25% Armenian_ +25% Sephardic_Jew_ @ 2.200651


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Azov_Greek_ + Cypriot_ + Greek_Smyrna_ + Kosovar_ @ 1.717844
2 Assyrian_Arzni_ + Greek_ + Italian_South_ + Italian_Tuscan_ @ 1.783165
3 Assyrian_Arzni_ + Greek_Thessaly_ + Italian_Abruzzo_ + Italian_South_ @ 1.785952
4 Armenian_ + Ashkenazi_ + Greek_ + Italian_Abruzzo_ @ 1.786584
5 Armenian_ + Greek_Peloponnesos_ + Italian_Abruzzo_ + Italian_South_ @ 1.797821
6 Armenian_ + Cretan_ + Kosovar_ + Sicilian_Center_ @ 1.810243
7 Assyrian_Arzni_ + Greek_Thessaloniki_ + Italian_Abruzzo_ + Italian_South_ @ 1.814994
8 Armenian_Yerevan_ + Greek_Peloponnesos_ + Italian_Abruzzo_ + Italian_South_ @ 1.843856
9 Armenian_ + Italian_South_ + Kosovar_ + Sicilian_East_ @ 1.852026
10 Armenian_ + Cypriot_ + Greek_Thessaloniki_ + Italian_Piedmont_ @ 1.871976
11 Assyrian_Arzni_ + Greek_Athens_ + Greek_Athens_ + Italian_Tuscan_ @ 1.878457
12 Armenian_ + Cretan_ + Greek_Thessaly_ + Italian_Abruzzo_ @ 1.886578
13 Albanian_Tirana_ + Assyrian_Arzni_ + Italian_Abruzzo_ + Italian_South_ @ 1.887175
14 Armenian_Yerevan_ + Greek_Thessaly_ + Italian_Abruzzo_ + Italian_South_ @ 1.887690
15 Armenian_ + Greek_Northwest_ + Italian_South_ + Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 1.887993
16 Ashkenazi_ + Azov_Greek_ + Greek_Smyrna_ + Greek_Smyrna_ @ 1.892865
17 Armenian_ + Greek_Islands_ + Kosovar_ + Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 1.896372
18 Armenian_ + Ashkenazi_ + Greek_Smyrna_ + Kosovar_ @ 1.896849
19 Assyrian_Arzni_ + Greek_Peloponnesos_ + Italian_Abruzzo_ + Italian_South_ @ 1.896858
20 Assyrian_Arzni_ + Greek_ + Greek_Athens_ + Italian_Tuscan_ @ 1.898334

Andrewid
07-17-2019, 03:43 PM
And finally the one from Symi. They have high matches to all the Aegean islands except Cyclades, as well as to Cyprus, Calabria, and again, Campania. Sicily comes next.

And so my known Symi ancestry hasn't really given me anything new;) They were actually blue-eyed and were given a family nickname to reflect this. But we had lots of blue eyes anyway:bored::)

Greekscholar
07-17-2019, 05:38 PM
Here are the two 400cM matches from Chios-Dafnonas region. They are very interesting in my opinion. I don't know how I would describe the pattern of their closest matches. They do both match the NE Aegean islands strongly on this test though.

Alkaevli
07-17-2019, 07:50 PM
Thanks for this. Just curious, any info on the Northeast Anatolian Greek kits? I assume these are "Eastern Anatolian Greeks" (mentioned in this Wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontic_Greeks#Eastern_Anatolia_Greeks)) and not Caucasus Greeks. It would be nice to see Caucasian Greeks, too, though I expect they'd look just like the others from the same general area.
The Northeast Anatolian Greeks are from Gümüşhane, Erzincan, Erzurum and Kars; the Pontic Greeks are from Trabzon, Amasya and Samsun; the Cappadocians are from Niğde and Kayseri. Apart from those shown in the admixture chart in my post, I have the kit numbers of 2 Central Anatolian Greeks (both of them descend fully from Ankara-Eskişehir-Kayseri Greeks) and a Caucasus (Tsalka) Greek. Also there are many Greeks of mixed ancestry. I will send you a spreadsheet containing all of these kits.
https://abload.de/img/map2najhd.png?fbclid=IwAR06ACyQ_WW2CQTCoScrZy9lstO F1NODRTeTQdKCGIItO1lsbSxYn3C-lxE

Tsalka Greek (similar to other Pontic Greeks, dominated by Kura-Araxes-like ancestry, )

Caucaus_Parsia 41.11 Pct
Middle_East 28.25 Pct
Indian 0.19 Pct
South_and_West_European 28.59 Pct
Melanesian 0.19 Pct
Sub_Saharian -
North_and_East_European 0.87 Pct
Arctic_Amerind -
East_Asian 0.09 Pct
Paleo_African -
Mesoamerican -
North_Asian 0.71 Pct



Central Anatolian Greeks (similar to Cappadocians, dominated by Anatolia_MLBA-like ancestry)

#1
Caucaus_Parsia 33.41 Pct
Middle_East 25.60 Pct
Indian 0.12 Pct
South_and_West_European 32.60 Pct
Melanesian 0.43 Pct
Sub_Saharian 0.09 Pct
North_and_East_European 6.90 Pct
Arctic_Amerind -
East_Asian -
Paleo_African -
Mesoamerican 0.77 Pct
North_Asian 0.08 Pct

#2
Caucaus_Parsia 32.77 Pct
Middle_East 25.30 Pct
Indian 1.05 Pct
South_and_West_European 33.99 Pct
Melanesian -
Sub_Saharian -
North_and_East_European 6.10 Pct
Arctic_Amerind -
East_Asian -
Paleo_African -
Mesoamerican 0.18 Pct
North_Asian 0.58 Pct





There are a few Greek populations still missing from our analyses because we don't have anything public to work with. We can make some inferences, thankfully. Based on what I've seen, Western Anatolian Greeks are similar to Aegean Greeks.
I would like to see the results of West Anatolian Greeks. Weren't they mostly of islander ancestry?




I haven't seen anything at all on Northern Pontic Greeks (Ukraine, the Crimea) and don't know what to make of them. We know Grikos are very similar to Southern Italians and Aegean islanders. Karamanlides would probably look just like Cappadocian Greeks. Missing anybody?

There are academic Azov Greek samples, you can see their average on MDLP spreadsheets. We asked the authors of the paper containing both Crimean Tatar and Azov Greek samples to share the dataset, they refused. For some reason, they also told Vadim Verenich not to use their samples anymore.

Here is the link to the paper: http://vigg.ru/fileadmin/user_upload/Dissertatsionnyy_sovet/Kandidatskie_dissertatsii/2018/Agdjoyan_AT/_Dissertacija_Agdzhojan__Krym-2018_.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0uuKIsfoidOMnHpHOaky7OxTg7gC0 Fd0IQ-Z8RdcB5u6GlPXT6pLvk0iI

Andrewid
07-17-2019, 08:29 PM
I uploaded my raw data to Ethnogene for fun at it's quite cheap. I was quite impressed with the results as it spots that both my parents are from eastern Cyprus.

It also picks up 1.5% Albanian. I wonder if this is just noise or whether it is picking up a 'transient pulse' reality? There are historical records showing that Arvanite mercenaries and their families were settled in my father's village by the Venetians.

It also shows the futility of strict geographic designations. Ethnogene places Cyprus in Europe, as opposed to AncestryDNA and 23andme. Neither scenario is perfect, but dividing Cypriots artificially from their Aegean neighbours to the west disguises their genetic relatedness. This thread displays that DNA connection very well.

http://i64.tinypic.com/n3vwbr.png

http://i63.tinypic.com/rt01l1.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/2cxgacy.jpg

Greekscholar
07-17-2019, 09:14 PM
I looked without success for a Smyrna Greek kit (I think that would qualify as Western Anatolian?) The best I found was a Greek with 2 grandparents from Smyrna, one from Italy, and one unknown. I will keep looking.

Here is what I did find. A kit with all 8 great-grandparents from Laconia. I don't want to throw the thread too far off, but I think it is useful for comparison to Aegean island and other Southern Mediterranean Continuum populations. The K36 is interesting as this person still scores closely to SMC areas. The K15 chart is maybe more useful here.

Sikeliot, this is what I was talking about when I mentioned the connection of the K36 between Apulia and Southern Albania. They light up together for this Laconian.

Sikeliot
07-17-2019, 09:53 PM
I looked without success for a Smyrna Greek kit (I think that would qualify as Western Anatolian?) The best I found was a Greek with 2 grandparents from Smyrna, one from Italy, and one unknown. I will keep looking.

Here is what I did find. A kit with all 8 great-grandparents from Laconia. I don't want to throw the thread too far off, but I think it is useful for comparison to Aegean island and other Southern Mediterranean Continuum populations. The K36 is interesting as this person still scores closely to SMC areas. The K15 chart is maybe more useful here.

Sikeliot, this is what I was talking about when I mentioned the connection of the K36 between Apulia and Southern Albania. They light up together for this Laconian.


North Aegean also is a higher match than Sicily/Crete/Calabria/Dodecanese, which I think reaffirms a somewhat mainland shift there also. But Apulia is definitely distinct amongst southern Italians in this regard.

Andrewid
07-17-2019, 10:14 PM
I looked without success for a Smyrna Greek kit (I think that would qualify as Western Anatolian?) The best I found was a Greek with 2 grandparents from Smyrna, one from Italy, and one unknown. I will keep looking.

Here is what I did find. A kit with all 8 great-grandparents from Laconia. I don't want to throw the thread too far off, but I think it is useful for comparison to Aegean island and other Southern Mediterranean Continuum populations. The K36 is interesting as this person still scores closely to SMC areas. The K15 chart is maybe more useful here.

Sikeliot, this is what I was talking about when I mentioned the connection of the K36 between Apulia and Southern Albania. They light up together for this Laconian.

With all due respect, I don't think we should call it the 'southern Mediterranean continuum'. The southern Mediteranean is the Maghreb, Libya and Egypt. Though more of a mouthful, it's the central and east Mediterranean continuum. Italy, Greece and Cyprus are geographically in the north or north east Mediterranean.

Sikeliot
07-17-2019, 10:21 PM
With all due respect, I don't think we should call it the 'southern Mediterranean continuum'. The southern Mediteranean is the Maghreb and Egypt. Though more of a mouthfull, it's the central and east Mediterranean continuum. Italy, Greece and Cyprus are geographically in the north or north east Mediterranean.

"Far SE Europe" also works.

Now let me ask you this. Do you consider any mainland Greeks, Apulians, or Abruzzese part of this "East Med" continuum? In my opinion, geography aside I might consider Apulians a different cluster.

What is shocking is geography does not dictate who clusters with who here. Dodecanese and Calabria are genetically close, with both having more affinity to Cyprus while neighboring Apulia is shifted to mainland Greece and even Albania than to the Dodecanese or Calabria on an autosomal level.

TonyC
07-18-2019, 12:00 AM
I am a Greek American with three grandparents born in Messinia, Peloponnese (circa 1880's) and one in Arcadia, Peloponnese (1888). I' m a rare bird in the US as most of my cousins (from my generation) are mixed Greek/German/Irish.

Johnny ola
07-18-2019, 12:00 AM
"Far SE Europe" also works.

Now let me ask you this. Do you consider any mainland Greeks, Apulians, or Abruzzese part of this "East Med" continuum? In my opinion, geography aside I might consider Apulians a different cluster.

What is shocking is geography does not dictate who clusters with who here. Dodecanese and Calabria are genetically close, with both having more affinity to Cyprus while neighboring Apulia is shifted to mainland Greece and even Albania than to the Dodecanese or Calabria on an autosomal level.

What about Maniots and Tsakonians?

IMO they are in the middle.Neither northern shifted but neither fully Cretan/Sicilian...

Andrewid
07-18-2019, 12:00 AM
"Far SE Europe" also works.

Now let me ask you this. Do you consider any mainland Greeks, Apulians, or Abruzzese part of this "East Med" continuum? In my opinion, geography aside I might consider Apulians a different cluster.

What is shocking is geography does not dictate who clusters with who here. Dodecanese and Calabria are genetically close, with both having more affinity to Cyprus while neighboring Apulia is shifted to mainland Greece and even Albania than to the Dodecanese or Calabria on an autosomal level.

The simple answer is that there is no simple answer;) We are dealing with fuzziness within the very concept of a continuum. It's important to recognise a pattern for certain deep ancestral commonalities. It's perhaps better to visualise matters as several intersecting and overlapping continua depending on what we're trying to show or explain. Cyprus/Dodecanese to Cappadocian Greeks to Pontian Greeks shows a different continuum. The Lebanese are at the far western end of their own Levantine continuum, but Alawites might provide the bridge to Syrian Jews and Cypriots, linking it to the Mediterranean genetic continuum. Likewise, we can see that Puglia is undoubtedly at a more outlying point than Calabria in terms of the MGC. It's still a part of that continuum nonetheless, though it may also be a part of another continuum stretching into the southern Balkans. Nothing should be seen as mutually exclusive. As anyone who has read some of my posts knows, I hate strict categories and reification:)

Sikeliot
07-18-2019, 12:32 AM
The simple answer is that there is no simple answer;) We are dealing with fuzziness within the very concept of a continuum. It's important to recognise a pattern for certain deep ancestral commonalities. It's perhaps better to visualise matters as several intersecting and overlapping continua depending on what we're trying to show or explain. Cyprus/Dodecanese to Cappadocian Greeks to Pontian Greeks shows a different continuum. The Lebanese are at the far western end of their own Levantine continuum, but Alawites might provide the bridge to Syrian Jews and Cypriots, linking it to the Mediterranean genetic continuum. Likewise, we can see that Puglia is undoubtedly at a more outlying point than Calabria in terms of the MGC. It's still a part of that continuum nonetheless, though it may also be a part of another continuum stretching into the southern Balkans. Nothing should be seen as mutually exclusive. As anyone who has read some of my posts knows, I hate strict categories and reification:)

I would devise the continuum in this sort of way if we are viewing these people as a cline from Greece proper to West Asia proper..


Mainland Greece proper --> Mani/Tsakonia --> Apulia/Abruzzo --> North Aegean/Cyclades/Campania --> Sicily/Crete --> Calabria/Dodecanese --> Cyprus --> West Asia proper

TonyC
07-18-2019, 01:05 AM
I would devise the continuum in this sort of way if we are viewing these people as a cline from Greece proper to West Asia proper..


Mainland Greece proper --> Mani/Tsakonia --> Apulia/Abruzzo --> North Aegean/Cyclades/Campania --> Sicily/Crete --> Calabria/Dodecanese --> Cyprus --> West Asia proper

That's a reasonable continuum IMO.

TonyC
07-18-2019, 01:10 AM
"Far SE Europe" also works.

Now let me ask you this. Do you consider any mainland Greeks, Apulians, or Abruzzese part of this "East Med" continuum? In my opinion, geography aside I might consider Apulians a different cluster.

What is shocking is geography does not dictate who clusters with who here. Dodecanese and Calabria are genetically close, with both having more affinity to Cyprus while neighboring Apulia is shifted to mainland Greece and even Albania than to the Dodecanese or Calabria on an autosomal level.

Honestly if were going to categorize I would say that standard mainland Greeks are in the Central Med continuum. Not sure how Apulians compare with mainland Greeks. I'd have to see results first.

Greekscholar
07-18-2019, 01:10 AM
With all due respect, I don't think we should call it the 'southern Mediterranean continuum'. The southern Mediteranean is the Maghreb, Libya and Egypt. Though more of a mouthful, it's the central and east Mediterranean continuum. Italy, Greece and Cyprus are geographically in the north or north east Mediterranean.

The CEMC works for me. I thought I saw SMC somewhere in print, but I could be mistaken.

Sikeliot
07-18-2019, 01:50 AM
Honestly if were going to categorize I would say that standard mainland Greeks are in the Central Med continuum. Not sure how Apulians compare with mainland Greeks. I'd have to see results first.

I can post Apulians. Which calculator do you want to see?

Michalis Moriopoulos
07-18-2019, 06:46 AM
I would like to see the results of West Anatolian Greeks. Weren't they mostly of islander ancestry?

All I've seen for them are a bunch of unreleased samples included in a throwaway supplemental PCA in that Stamatoyannopoulos Peloponnesus study:

https://i.imgur.com/HA8pfHN.png

They do indeed seem to cluster with islanders, but it's difficult to make out much more than that.


There are academic Azov Greek samples, you can see their average on MDLP spreadsheets. We asked the authors of the paper containing both Crimean Tatar and Azov Greek samples to share the dataset, they refused. For some reason, they also told Vadim Verenich not to use their samples anymore.

Oh, that's right, I forgot about those. Thanks.

Sikeliot
07-18-2019, 11:17 AM
Honestly if were going to categorize I would say that standard mainland Greeks are in the Central Med continuum. Not sure how Apulians compare with mainland Greeks. I'd have to see results first.

Apulians...

2 of them plot as halfway between mainland and island Greece (or as half mainland Greek, half Sicilian). The third plots more like a slightly mainland-shifted Sicilian but when you see Peloponnese and Greek Macedonia in their top 20 on MDLP K23 you know there is still a mainland shift.

They are definitely not the same as Calabrians. Apulia to Calabria are probably as different as are Maniots to Dodecanese.


#1:

https://i.imgur.com/TkwHSME.png


#2:

https://i.imgur.com/DcTxjCT.png


#3:

https://i.imgur.com/xKi8Pwk.png

Sikeliot
07-19-2019, 03:17 AM
For comparison to the above, see how people from different parts of Sicily score relative to the Apulians. There is a stark difference on average.

Though the Sicilians have variation too. There are basically 2 Sicilian clusters I am finding: one that is centered on Messina, Catania, Palermo, and inland west Sicily that is similar to Cretans/Dodecanese/Calabrians but with a North African shift (see Sephardim and Moroccan Jews coming up highly), and then another that is centered on Trapani and Syracuse/Ragusa which is, albeit to a lesser degree than Apulia, shifted toward mainland Greece and Tuscany.


Palermo:


https://i.imgur.com/XjRfSs5.png


Palermo:


https://i.imgur.com/pZE4PgH.png


Palermo:


https://i.imgur.com/pfSgaXO.png


Palermo:


https://i.imgur.com/Oiirlvx.png


Messina:


https://i.imgur.com/a3jOr1H.png


Messina:


https://i.imgur.com/XFtjq4u.png


Catania:


https://i.imgur.com/bBHSKlU.png


Trapani:


https://i.imgur.com/nTJSY0y.png


Trapani:


https://i.imgur.com/noAL3Or.png


Syracuse:


https://i.imgur.com/lHXTnRA.png


Syracuse:


https://i.imgur.com/YoJSTcU.png

Greekscholar
07-19-2019, 07:05 PM
I am running out of steam on samples. But here is the most recent K15 map. The Constantinople Greeks are siblings with all 4 grandparents living there pre-WWI. The new Ikarian and Kalymnos samples are deep in cousin clusters with the existing samples from those islands and have 50+cm of ROH, but no family trees. The Rhodes sample has over 100cM of ROH and their GEDmatch name includes "from Rhodes" so I included her.

I think the diagonal cline (is that the right word?) is pretty neat to see. The samples range from Thessaly almost to Cyprus, but seem to stay on that same diagonal line that connects the two.

Sikeliot
07-20-2019, 11:42 AM
I am running out of steam on samples. But here is the most recent K15 map. The Constantinople Greeks are siblings with all 4 grandparents living there pre-WWI. The new Ikarian and Kalymnos samples are deep in cousin clusters with the existing samples from those islands and have 50+cm of ROH, but no family trees. The Rhodes sample has over 100cM of ROH and their GEDmatch name includes "from Rhodes" so I included her.

I think the diagonal cline (is that the right word?) is pretty neat to see. The samples range from Thessaly almost to Cyprus, but seem to stay on that same diagonal line that connects the two.



Constantinople Greeks shift "north" of the South Italian cluster, so I wonder if this means mainland input into them within the last 1000 years? I have other Rhodians I could give you that span a wide range there.

Ikaria and Fourni seem to be the most homogenous cluster there.

What is also worth noting is South Italians and Cretans, I think, have a larger variation than any of the other island chains, save possibly Dodecanese. I have Sicilians plotting from Abruzzo and Central Greece down to Italian Jewish, and 3 Calabrians plotting near your Rhodians and Kalymnians on another plot. As for Crete I think they have even MORE variation than south Italians.

See here how some Calabrians plot right in line with the Dodecanese you have but shifted slightly west. There is also one Sicilian from Palermo there too. What I see here is South Italians embodying the entire range possible for island Greece.

https://i.imgur.com/WyOmfmG.jpg

Andrewid
07-20-2019, 12:48 PM
I am running out of steam on samples. But here is the most recent K15 map. The Constantinople Greeks are siblings with all 4 grandparents living there pre-WWI. The new Ikarian and Kalymnos samples are deep in cousin clusters with the existing samples from those islands and have 50+cm of ROH, but no family trees. The Rhodes sample has over 100cM of ROH and their GEDmatch name includes "from Rhodes" so I included her.

I think the diagonal cline (is that the right word?) is pretty neat to see. The samples range from Thessaly almost to Cyprus, but seem to stay on that same diagonal line that connects the two.

Where Rhodes plots is not far from where my father, mother and myself plot but we're slightly further to the 'Cyprian' median (which we now believe to be weighted a bit too far to the Levant anyway). If you are referring to 'F.....' from Rhodes, Gedmatch indicates that I'm actually related to her!!:) We don't actually have any records of being related to anyone in Rhodes.

Sikeliot
07-21-2019, 01:56 PM
Where Rhodes plots is not far from where my father, mother and myself plot but we're slightly further to the 'Cyprian' median (which we now believe to be weighted a bit too far to the Levant anyway). If you are referring to 'F.....' from Rhodes, Gedmatch indicates that I'm actually related to her!!:) We don't actually have any records of being related to anyone in Rhodes.


Something interesting I wanted to point out that might help us understand the genetic plotting in one of your plots someone posted.

I have not yet figured out how the North African in some Sicilians shifts them on the PCA (does it move them just south, or also west of the Cretans/Dodcanese?) but this person is an example from Palermo who on the MDLP K23 oracle is closer to Libyan Jews, Tunisian Jews, and even Syrian Jews than to Cretans.

What would this do to them on a PCA?


# Population (source) Distance
1 Sephardic_Jew ( ) 4.56
2 Turk_Jew ( ) 5.59
3 Sicilian_West ( ) 5.65
4 Moroccan_Jew ( ) 5.77
5 Sicilian_Agrigento ( ) 6.04
6 Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) 6.21
7 French_Jew ( ) 6.35
8 Maltese ( ) 6.79
9 Italian_Jew ( ) 6.8
10 Sicilian_Trapani ( ) 7.69
11 Sicilian_East ( ) 8.09
12 Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) 8.29
13 Libyan_Jew ( ) 8.73
14 Tunisian_Jew ( ) 9.28
15 Ashkenazi ( ) 9.8
16 Syrian_Jew ( ) 10.06
17 Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) 10.36
18 Greek_Northwest ( ) 10.63
19 Cretan ( ) 10.96
20 Bulgarian ( ) 11.12

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 77.8% Syrian_Jew ( ) + 22.2% Portugese ( ) @ 1.82
2 94.2% Turk_Jew ( ) + 5.8% Kalash ( ) @ 2.01
3 91.6% Sephardic_Jew ( ) + 8.4% Tajik_Pomiri_Rushan ( ) @ 2.11
4 63.4% Lebanese_Druze ( ) + 36.6% Spanish_Canarias_IBS ( ) @ 2.12
5 93.7% Turk_Jew ( ) + 6.3% Brahui ( ) @ 2.14
6 80.8% French_Jew ( ) + 19.2% Ain_Touta_WGA ( ) @ 2.14
7 80.9% Syrian_Jew ( ) + 19.1% Spanish_Castilla_y_Leon_IBS ( ) @ 2.15
8 92.9% Turk_Jew ( ) + 7.1% Makrani ( ) @ 2.16
9 80.6% Syrian_Jew ( ) + 19.4% Spanish_Galicia_IBS ( ) @ 2.16
10 92.1% Sephardic_Jew ( ) + 7.9% Tajik_Pomiri_Shugnan ( ) @ 2.19
11 80.7% Syrian_Jew ( ) + 19.3% Spanish_Canarias_IBS ( ) @ 2.21
12 93.3% Turk_Jew ( ) + 6.7% Balochi ( ) @ 2.23
13 80.2% Syrian_Jew ( ) + 19.8% Spanish_Extremadura_IBS ( ) @ 2.23
14 80.6% Syrian_Jew ( ) + 19.4% Spanish_Murcia_IBS ( ) @ 2.23
15 92.7% Sephardic_Jew ( ) + 7.3% Tajik_Pomiri_Ishkashim ( ) @ 2.26
16 92% Sephardic_Jew ( ) + 8% Uzbek_Afghan ( ) @ 2.28
17 91.3% Italian_Jew ( ) + 8.7% Makrani ( ) @ 2.3
18 90.6% Sephardic_Jew ( ) + 9.4% Tajik_Yagnobi ( ) @ 2.31
19 92.3% Italian_Jew ( ) + 7.7% Brahui ( ) @ 2.33
20 79.5% Syrian_Jew ( ) + 20.5% Spaniard ( ) @ 2.34

Greekscholar
07-21-2019, 06:26 PM
Where Rhodes plots is not far from where my father, mother and myself plot but we're slightly further to the 'Cyprian' median (which we now believe to be weighted a bit too far to the Levant anyway). If you are referring to 'F.....' from Rhodes, Gedmatch indicates that I'm actually related to her!!:) We don't actually have any records of being related to anyone in Rhodes.

Yes, that is her. Is there any way for you to tell if your connection to her is through Cyprus or Symi? The Dodecanese kits that are plotting close to Cyprus almost certainly have to have ancestors from that island, at least I would guess so. It would be interesting to know if it is more recent or further back in time. It is pretty easy for me to find Cypriots playing the cousin of a cousin game, but not Cretans, which I find odd. This does point out the danger in using samples without family trees.

Sikeliot, Thanks for the Italian plots. They do show a large range of diversity. My guess would be larger islands and areas, like say Crete and Sicily, would have a larger amount of diversity. Smaller islands would have a smaller range of diversity based on founder affect/genetic drift. We see this in Alkaevli's chart, which is very interesting.

Andrewid
07-22-2019, 12:58 PM
Yes, that is her. Is there any way for you to tell if your connection to her is through Cyprus or Symi? The Dodecanese kits that are plotting close to Cyprus almost certainly have to have ancestors from that island, at least I would guess so. It would be interesting to know if it is more recent or further back in time. It is pretty easy for me to find Cypriots playing the cousin of a cousin game, but not Cretans, which I find odd. This does point out the danger in using samples without family trees.


I actually investigated the DNA connection with 'F' from Rhodes and discovered that it's through my father, who also comes up as related. Our Symi link is through my mother, so that can't be the connection. The link is a common ancestor 4-5 generations ago. I also contacted the person managing her account several months ago but didn't hear anything back.

Greekscholar
07-23-2019, 12:37 AM
I actually investigated the DNA connection with 'F' from Rhodes and discovered that it's through my father, who also comes up as related. Our Symi link is through my mother, so that can't be the connection. The link is a common ancestor 4-5 generations ago. I also contacted the person managing her account several months ago but didn't hear anything back.

This raises a question I don't know the answer to, how much Cypriot ancestry is found in the Dodecanese islands? I wonder if the kits I have found that map closely to Cyprus are individuals with either relatively recent Cypriot ancestry (like F seems to have)or maybe genetic drift as a result of initial settlement and few people moving there since then.

Sikeliot
07-23-2019, 12:40 AM
This raises a question I don't know the answer to, how much Cypriot ancestry is found in the Dodecanese islands? I wonder if the kits I have found that map closely to Cyprus are individuals with either relatively recent Cypriot ancestry (like F seems to have)or maybe genetic drift as a result of initial settlement and few people moving there since then.

So amongst Dodecanese I see 3 "types" of results and they seem to correspond to certain islands:

1. Slightly mainland-shifted, somewhat like some North Aegean results (Tilos, Patmos)
2. Very close to Sicilians and Calabrians (Rhodes, Symi, most Kalymnians)
3. Cypriot-shifted (Karpathos, some Kalymnians)

So I would venture the more outlying ones in each direction have either higher mainland ancestry or Cypriot (or in some cases Anatolian Greek) and the ones closer to the South Italian norm are the more "pure" islanders. But I could be wrong.

Sikeliot
07-23-2019, 04:24 AM
This raises a question I don't know the answer to, how much Cypriot ancestry is found in the Dodecanese islands? I wonder if the kits I have found that map closely to Cyprus are individuals with either relatively recent Cypriot ancestry (like F seems to have)or maybe genetic drift as a result of initial settlement and few people moving there since then.


Here is another Dodecanese. This is a Kalymnian with some ancestry from Kastellorizo. I used MDLP (both oracles), and Eurogenes K15.

I do not see a particular shift toward Cyprus here, which does make me think those who are, have some sort of connection to Cyprus.

What is actually interesting is despite their geographic location (Kastellorizo is south of Turkey and halfway to Cyprus), they are modeled as half North Italian, half West Asian.

MDLP K23:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 37.39
2 European_Early_Farmers 23.42
3 Near_East 11.23
4 South_Central_Asian 9.94
5 European_Hunters_Gatherers 8.89
6 North_African 4.06
7 Ancestral_Altaic 2.64
8 Austronesian 1.27


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sicilian_West_ @ 6.058105
2 Cretan_ @ 6.506439
3 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 6.574649
4 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 6.605132
5 French_Jew_ @ 7.278828
6 Sicilian_East_ @ 7.348190
7 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 7.358725
8 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 7.487982
9 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 7.731395
10 Maltese_ @ 8.710020
11 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 8.787559
12 Romanian_Jew_ @ 8.923427
13 Greek_Islands_ @ 9.191651
14 Turk_Jew_ @ 9.502048
15 Italian_Jew_ @ 9.590997
16 Ashkenazi_ @ 9.614277
17 Italian_South_ @ 9.688040
18 Italian_Abruzzo_ @ 9.795456
19 Sicilian_Center_ @ 10.131198
20 Greek_Athens_ @ 10.199481

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Assyrian_Iraqi_ +50% Italian_Piedmont_ @ 2.226082


# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 37.39
2 European_Early_Farmers 23.42
3 Near_East 11.23
4 South_Central_Asian 9.94
5 European_Hunters_Gatherers 8.89
6 North_African 4.06
7 Ancestral_Altaic 2.64
8 Austronesian 1.27
9 Tungus-Altaic 0.48
10 Arctic 0.31
11 Melano_Polynesian 0.22
12 Paleo_Siberian 0.08
13 South_East_Asian 0.06

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) 6.2
2 Sicilian_West ( ) 6.3
3 Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) 6.55
4 Greek_Northwest ( ) 6.66
5 French_Jew ( ) 6.73
6 Sicilian_Agrigento ( ) 6.77
7 Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) 6.81
8 Sicilian_East ( ) 6.83
9 Sephardic_Jew ( ) 7.43
10 Sicilian_Trapani ( ) 7.86
11 Greek_Thessaly ( ) 7.94
12 Ashkenazi ( ) 8.02
13 Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) 8.06
14 Cretan ( ) 8.16
15 Turk_Jew ( ) 8.34
16 Albanian_Tirana ( ) 8.36
17 Italian_Jew ( ) 8.42
18 Kosovar ( ) 8.67
19 Central_Greek ( ) 8.72
20 Maltese ( ) 9.01

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 54.4% Italian_Piedmont ( ) + 45.6% Assyrian_Iraqi ( ) @ 1.68
2 71.4% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) + 28.6% Uzbekistani_Jew ( ) @ 1.77
3 59.1% Italian_Tuscan ( ) + 40.9% Assyrian_Iraqi ( ) @ 1.77
4 50.7% Assyrian_Arzni ( ) + 49.3% Spanish_Baleares_IBS ( ) @ 1.89
5 64.5% Italian_Tuscan ( ) + 35.5% Iranian_Jew ( ) @ 1.93
6 58.8% Italian_Tuscan ( ) + 41.2% Iraqi_Chaldean ( ) @ 1.96
7 52.9% Italian_Bergamo ( ) + 47.1% Jew_Tat ( ) @ 2.01
8 60.1% Italian_Piedmont ( ) + 39.9% Iranian_Jew ( ) @ 2.12
9 61% Italian_Tuscan ( ) + 39% Georgian_Jew ( ) @ 2.13
10 63.9% Italian_Tuscan ( ) + 36.1% Uzbekistani_Jew ( ) @ 2.16
11 54.2% Italian_Piedmont ( ) + 45.8% Iraqi_Chaldean ( ) @ 2.2
12 67% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) + 33% Iraqi_Chaldean ( ) @ 2.22
13 54.1% Assyrian_Iraqi ( ) + 45.9% Italian_Bergamo ( ) @ 2.23
14 63.4% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) + 36.6% Turk_Adana ( ) @ 2.24
15 56.4% Italian_Piedmont ( ) + 43.6% Georgian_Jew ( ) @ 2.27
16 64.3% Italian_Tuscan ( ) + 35.7% Kurd_Jew ( ) @ 2.28
17 72% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) + 28% Kurd_Jew ( ) @ 2.28
18 50.3% Italian_Bergamo ( ) + 49.7% Iraqi_Jew ( ) @ 2.38
19 72.2% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) + 27.8% Iranian_Jew ( ) @ 2.41
20 69.1% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) + 30.9% Georgian_Jew ( ) @ 2.42



Eurogenes K15:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 31.17
2 West_Asian 21.16
3 West_Med 15.11
4 Atlantic 11.18
5 North_Sea 7.32
6 Eastern_Euro 6.23
7 Red_Sea 5.31
8 Baltic 1.47
9 Southeast_Asian 0.81
10 Amerindian 0.22
11 Siberian 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 8.82
2 Central_Greek 8.85
3 East_Sicilian 9.66
4 Sephardic_Jewish 9.81
5 Ashkenazi 10.09
6 Italian_Jewish 10.32
7 Italian_Abruzzo 10.72
8 Cyprian 10.86
9 Algerian_Jewish 11.91
10 Turkish 12.44
11 West_Sicilian 12.65
12 Tunisian_Jewish 12.93
13 Lebanese_Muslim 13.19
14 Greek 14.16
15 Libyan_Jewish 15.01
16 Syrian 15.05
17 Greek_Thessaly 15.38
18 Assyrian 16.56
19 Azeri 16.87
20 Tuscan 17.51

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 59.3% West_Sicilian + 40.7% Armenian @ 4.16
2 59% West_Sicilian + 41% Georgian_Jewish @ 4.28
3 76.4% Italian_Jewish + 23.6% Lezgin @ 4.41
4 73.3% Algerian_Jewish + 26.7% Lezgin @ 4.6
5 77% Italian_Jewish + 23% Adygei @ 4.7
6 62.2% Italian_Abruzzo + 37.8% Assyrian @ 4.71
7 77.5% Italian_Jewish + 22.5% Tabassaran @ 4.81
8 74.3% Algerian_Jewish + 25.7% Tabassaran @ 4.82
9 73.7% Italian_Jewish + 26.3% Kumyk @ 4.84
10 65.2% Italian_Abruzzo + 34.8% Kurdish_Jewish @ 4.84
11 77.9% Sephardic_Jewish + 22.1% Lezgin @ 4.85
12 51.5% Assyrian + 48.5% Tuscan @ 4.86
13 64% Italian_Abruzzo + 36% Georgian_Jewish @ 4.86
14 59.5% Assyrian + 40.5% North_Italian @ 4.87
15 78.7% Sephardic_Jewish + 21.3% Tabassaran @ 4.89
16 77.7% Italian_Jewish + 22.3% Georgian @ 4.9
17 57.6% West_Sicilian + 42.4% Assyrian @ 4.92
18 69.8% Central_Greek + 30.2% Georgian_Jewish @ 4.93
19 78.3% Italian_Jewish + 21.7% Chechen @ 4.94
20 78.1% Italian_Jewish + 21.9% Ossetian @ 4.96

Greekscholar
07-23-2019, 03:30 PM
I'll see if I can find any kits from Kastellorizo. I did find some kits with partial ancestry from that region a few months back and I remember them being virtually identical to Cypriots, but I think I found them through Cypriots, cousins of cousins of cousins, etc.

Sikeliot
07-23-2019, 04:25 PM
I'll see if I can find any kits from Kastellorizo. I did find some kits with partial ancestry from that region a few months back and I remember them being virtually identical to Cypriots, but I think I found them through Cypriots, cousins of cousins of cousins, etc.

I haven't found that to be true based on the results I've seen. I'll try to find more.

Sikeliot
07-23-2019, 09:30 PM
I'll see if I can find any kits from Kastellorizo. I did find some kits with partial ancestry from that region a few months back and I remember them being virtually identical to Cypriots, but I think I found them through Cypriots, cousins of cousins of cousins, etc.

Full result from Kastellorizo... this person is still closer to Sicilians/South Italians and Cretans, but I think a bit shifted toward Cyprus... but surprisingly less than expected given their location. Same as the other result pretty much.

MDLP K23:


# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 40.32
2 European_Early_Farmers 20.97
3 Near_East 13.75
4 South_Central_Asian 9.35
5 European_Hunters_Gatherers 6.2
6 North_African 5.69
7 Austronesian 1.62
8 South_East_Asian 0.77
9 Melano_Polynesian 0.51
10 Ancestral_Altaic 0.43
11 East_African 0.19
12 Australoid 0.11
13 Arctic 0.07
14 African_Pygmy 0.04

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Cretan ( ) 3.32
2 Greek_Smyrna ( ) 5.98
3 Sicilian_East ( ) 6.75
4 Romanian_Jew ( ) 7.17
5 Syrian_Jew ( ) 7.2
6 Greek ( ) 7.36
7 Ashkenazi ( ) 7.7
8 French_Jew ( ) 7.72
9 Italian_Jew ( ) 7.87
10 Sephardic_Jew ( ) 7.98
11 Turk_Jew ( ) 8.01
12 Greek_Athens ( ) 8.02
13 Italian_South ( ) 8.12
14 Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) 8.43
15 Central_Greek ( ) 8.54
16 Greek_Macedonia ( ) 8.68
17 Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) 8.69
18 Greek_Phokaia ( ) 8.76
19 Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) 8.77
20 Greek_Islands ( ) 8.82

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 91.9% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 8.1% Moroccan ( ) @ 2.15
2 70.8% Sicilian_East ( ) + 29.2% Assyrian_Iraqi ( ) @ 2.19
3 91.1% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 8.9% Tunisian ( ) @ 2.25
4 93.8% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 6.2% Saharawi ( ) @ 2.34
5 91.4% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 8.6% Shaigi_Sudan ( ) @ 2.44
6 93.5% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 6.5% Berber_WGA ( ) @ 2.46
7 64.7% Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) + 35.3% Assyrian_Iraqi ( ) @ 2.5
8 92% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 8% Algerian ( ) @ 2.51
9 93.1% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 6.9% Morocco_South ( ) @ 2.54
10 58.3% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 41.7% Sephardic_Jew ( ) @ 2.59
11 71.7% Sicilian_East ( ) + 28.3% Iraqi_Chaldean ( ) @ 2.64
12 51.9% Cypriot ( ) + 48.1% Sicilian_West ( ) @ 2.65
13 69.7% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 30.3% Moroccan_Jew ( ) @ 2.68
14 63.5% Lebanese_Druze ( ) + 36.5% Italian_Bergamo ( ) @ 2.73
15 80.1% Cretan ( ) + 19.9% Sephardic_Jew ( ) @ 2.74
16 77.2% Sicilian_East ( ) + 22.8% Uzbekistani_Jew ( ) @ 2.76
17 73.6% Sicilian_East ( ) + 26.4% Georgian_Jew ( ) @ 2.77
18 72% Sicilian_Agrigento ( ) + 28% Assyrian_Arzni ( ) @ 2.78
19 77.6% Sicilian_East ( ) + 22.4% Jew_Tat ( ) @ 2.78
20 73.9% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 26.1% Libyan_Jew ( ) @ 2.78



Eurogenes K15:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 32.08
2 West_Asian 22.27
3 West_Med 18.59
4 Atlantic 8.4
5 North_Sea 7.03
6 Red_Sea 4.79
7 Baltic 3.33
8 Southeast_Asian 2.24
9 Eastern_Euro 0.84
10 Oceanian 0.24
11 Northeast_African 0.2

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 8.56
2 Cyprian 9.7
3 Central_Greek 9.77
4 East_Sicilian 10.38
5 Italian_Jewish 10.56
6 Sephardic_Jewish 10.86
7 Algerian_Jewish 11.98
8 Ashkenazi 12
9 Italian_Abruzzo 12.79
10 Tunisian_Jewish 13.15
11 Lebanese_Muslim 13.24
12 Turkish 13.7
13 Libyan_Jewish 14.44
14 West_Sicilian 14.49
15 Syrian 15.03
16 Greek 15.8
17 Greek_Thessaly 16.17
18 Assyrian 16.29
19 Samaritan 17.3
20 Armenian 17.34

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 69.5% South_Italian + 30.5% Armenian @ 4.4
2 69.9% Assyrian + 30.1% Sardinian @ 4.9
3 70.9% South_Italian + 29.1% Georgian_Jewish @ 4.97
4 69.4% South_Italian + 30.6% Assyrian @ 5.19
5 79.3% Italian_Jewish + 20.7% Abhkasian @ 5.23
6 68.1% Georgian_Jewish + 31.9% Sardinian @ 5.37
7 77.7% Italian_Jewish + 22.3% Georgian @ 5.4
8 76.8% Algerian_Jewish + 23.2% Abhkasian @ 5.6
9 64.7% Italian_Jewish + 35.3% Armenian @ 5.62
10 65.3% East_Sicilian + 34.7% Armenian @ 5.64
11 67.3% Central_Greek + 32.7% Armenian @ 5.65
12 74.9% Algerian_Jewish + 25.1% Georgian @ 5.66
13 73.4% South_Italian + 26.6% Kurdish_Jewish @ 5.78
14 66% Central_Greek + 34% Assyrian @ 5.85
15 68.8% Armenian + 31.2% Sardinian @ 5.97
16 85.2% South_Italian + 14.8% Abhkasian @ 6
17 50.3% Cyprian + 49.7% Central_Greek @ 6.05
18 68.5% Central_Greek + 31.5% Georgian_Jewish @ 6.05
19 69.3% Central_Greek + 30.7% Kurdish_Jewish @ 6.07
20 84% South_Italian + 16% Georgian @ 6.11



Dodecad K12b:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 40.86
2 Atlantic_Med 23.77
3 Southwest_Asian 14.14
4 Gedrosia 9.49
5 North_European 7.67
6 Northwest_African 2.09
7 Southeast_Asian 1.77
8 Sub_Saharan 0.17
9 Siberian 0.03
10 South_Asian 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 7
2 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 8.87
3 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 9.07
4 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 9.45
5 Sicilian (Dodecad) 9.83
6 Cypriots (Behar) 10.02
7 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 11.45
8 Turkish (Dodecad) 13.38
9 Greek (Dodecad) 14.46
10 Lebanese (Behar) 15.27
11 Turks (Behar) 15.8
12 Druze (HGDP) 16.92
13 C_Italian (Dodecad) 17.02
14 Syrians (Behar) 18.59
15 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 19.22
16 Armenian (Dodecad) 20.12
17 Assyrian (Dodecad) 20.17
18 Jordanians (Behar) 20.2
19 Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) 20.36
20 Georgia_Jews (Behar) 20.41

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 69.7% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 30.3% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) @ 2.13
2 69.5% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 30.5% Assyrian (Dodecad) @ 2.2
3 67.7% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 32.3% Assyrian (Dodecad) @ 2.31
4 67.9% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 32.1% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) @ 2.31
5 71.7% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 28.3% Iranian_Jews (Behar) @ 2.44
6 70% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 30% Georgia_Jews (Behar) @ 2.56
7 70% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 30% Iranian_Jews (Behar) @ 2.65
8 68.2% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 31.8% Georgia_Jews (Behar) @ 2.86
9 70.5% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 29.5% Iraq_Jews (Behar) @ 2.97
10 69.9% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 30.1% Armenian (Dodecad) @ 3.02
11 71.1% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 28.9% Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) @ 3.04
12 67% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 33% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) @ 3.07
13 69% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 31% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) @ 3.08
14 68.7% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 31.3% Iraq_Jews (Behar) @ 3.11
15 54.4% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 45.6% Assyrian (Dodecad) @ 3.22
16 56.8% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 43.2% Iranian_Jews (Behar) @ 3.25
17 54.6% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 45.4% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) @ 3.36
18 69.5% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 30.5% Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) @ 3.41
19 68.2% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 31.8% Armenian (Dodecad) @ 3.41
20 55% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 45% Iraq_Jews (Behar) @ 3.42

Greekscholar
07-23-2019, 09:47 PM
Thank you! I had no luck in my search, although I did stumble upon a Thessaly sample I included in the other thread. When I chart that K15 result with Taxe de Similitude I get coordinates of 731, 485, which is close to Cyprus and some of the Dodecanese samples that shift that way. It is, more or less, what I remember seeing.

Would you mind posting MDLP K16? I think seeing it side by side with K23 may be helpful as well. Thanks.

Sikeliot
07-23-2019, 10:08 PM
Thank you! I had no luck in my search, although I did stumble upon a Thessaly sample I included in the other thread. When I chart that K15 result with Taxe de Similitude I get coordinates of 731, 485, which is close to Cyprus and some of the Dodecanese samples that shift that way. It is, more or less, what I remember seeing.

Would you mind posting MDLP K16? I think seeing it side by side with K23 may be helpful as well. Thanks.

I don't like the MDLP K16 calculator's sample populations so I usually do not post it.. they are poorly labeled.

If you want to see how a Thessaly sample would compare to the person above or to islanders overall... this person is clearly shifted toward Central/East Europeans... they are almost halfway between Austrians/South Germans and Sicilians.

MDLP K23:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 34.96
2 European_Early_Farmers 23.4
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 22.86
4 Near_East 7.12
5 South_Central_Asian 3.8
6 North_African 3.04
7 Arctic 1.53
8 South_Indian 1.22
9 Australoid 1.1
10 Amerindian 0.65
11 Ancestral_Altaic 0.32

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Northwest ( ) 4.13
2 Kosovar ( ) 5.11
3 Bulgarian ( ) 5.55
4 Sicilian_West ( ) 6.01
5 Macedonian ( ) 6.02
6 Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) 6.11
7 Montenegrian ( ) 6.18
8 Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) 6.19
9 Greek_Thessaly ( ) 6.47
10 Sicilian_Trapani ( ) 6.58
11 Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) 6.61
12 Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) 7.07
13 Albanian_Tirana ( ) 7.17
14 Sicilian_Agrigento ( ) 7.32
15 Maltese ( ) 7.53
16 Serb_Serbia ( ) 7.73
17 Italian_Abruzzo ( ) 8.17
18 Ashkenazi ( ) 8.29
19 Serb_BH ( ) 8.88
20 French_Jew ( ) 9.01

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 58.4% Macedonian ( ) + 41.6% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) @ 2.13
2 57% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) + 43% Croat_BH ( ) @ 2.18
3 60.7% Bulgarian ( ) + 39.3% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) @ 2.19
4 58% Italian_South ( ) + 42% South_German ( ) @ 2.2
5 55% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) + 45% Bosnian ( ) @ 2.25
6 57.8% Montenegrian ( ) + 42.2% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) @ 2.33
7 70.9% Ashkenazi ( ) + 29.1% South_German ( ) @ 2.36
8 74.4% Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) + 25.6% South_German ( ) @ 2.37
9 52.3% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) + 47.7% Serb_BH ( ) @ 2.39
10 78.9% Greek_Thessaly ( ) + 21.1% North_German ( ) @ 2.4
11 81% Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) + 19% North_European ( ) @ 2.42
12 65.2% Macedonian ( ) + 34.8% Italian_Tuscan ( ) @ 2.42
13 77.2% Gagauz ( ) + 22.8% Spanish_Murcia_IBS ( ) @ 2.44
14 59.4% Greek_Athens ( ) + 40.6% South_German ( ) @ 2.46
15 53% Greek_Islands ( ) + 47% South_German ( ) @ 2.46
16 82.1% Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) + 17.9% CEU ( ) @ 2.47
17 76.4% Greek_Thessaly ( ) + 23.6% South_German ( ) @ 2.47
18 82.2% Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) + 17.8% Welsh ( ) @ 2.48
19 83.5% Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) + 16.5% Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR ( ) @ 2.49
20 84% Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) + 16% Orcadian ( ) @ 2.49


Dodecad K12b:


# Population Percent
1 Atlantic_Med 29.75
2 Caucasus 29.18
3 North_European 25.3
4 Southwest_Asian 8.54
5 Gedrosia 5.99
6 Siberian 0.77
7 Southeast_Asian 0.24
8 Northwest_African 0.23

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 O_Italian (Dodecad) 5.09
2 Greek (Dodecad) 9.28
3 C_Italian (Dodecad) 9.55
4 Tuscan (HGDP) 9.97
5 TSI30 (Metspalu) 10.21
6 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 10.93
7 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 11.14
8 Romanians (Behar) 11.67
9 N_Italian (Dodecad) 12.52
10 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 14.67
11 Sicilian (Dodecad) 14.81
12 North_Italian (HGDP) 15.07
13 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 16.06
14 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 16.18
15 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 21.56
16 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 23.13
17 Baleares (1000Genomes) 23.35
18 Galicia (1000Genomes) 24.27
19 Hungarians (Behar) 24.87
20 Extremadura (1000Genomes) 24.93

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 79.1% Greek (Dodecad) + 20.9% Argyll (1000Genomes) @ 1.47
2 79.5% Greek (Dodecad) + 20.5% Orkney (1000Genomes) @ 1.66
3 79.5% Greek (Dodecad) + 20.5% Orcadian (HGDP) @ 1.69
4 76.1% Greek (Dodecad) + 23.9% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) @ 1.71
5 79.4% Greek (Dodecad) + 20.6% Irish (Dodecad) @ 1.75
6 77.3% Greek (Dodecad) + 22.7% Dutch (Dodecad) @ 1.84
7 78.1% Greek (Dodecad) + 21.9% English (Dodecad) @ 1.88
8 78% Greek (Dodecad) + 22% CEU30 (1000Genomes) @ 1.88
9 77.8% Greek (Dodecad) + 22.2% Kent (1000Genomes) @ 1.94
10 78.8% Greek (Dodecad) + 21.2% British (Dodecad) @ 1.96
11 69.6% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 30.4% Bulgarian (Dodecad) @ 1.96
12 63% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 37% Hungarians (Behar) @ 2.01
13 78.5% Greek (Dodecad) + 21.5% Cornwall (1000Genomes) @ 2.06
14 78.8% Greek (Dodecad) + 21.2% British_Isles (Dodecad) @ 2.1
15 71.6% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 28.4% Romanians (Behar) @ 2.32
16 70.7% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 29.3% Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) @ 2.36
17 81.1% Greek (Dodecad) + 18.9% Norwegian (Dodecad) @ 2.41
18 82.4% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 17.6% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 2.51
19 51.7% Cypriots (Behar) + 48.3% Dutch (Dodecad) @ 2.65
20 66% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 34% German (Dodecad) @ 2.74


Eurogenes K15:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 21.08
2 Atlantic 18.37
3 West_Med 14.23
4 North_Sea 12.09
5 Baltic 12.04
6 West_Asian 10.97
7 Eastern_Euro 6.28
8 Red_Sea 3.9
9 Amerindian 0.44
10 Siberian 0.31
11 Oceanian 0.28
12 Southeast_Asian 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek 5.41
2 Bulgarian 6.8
3 Greek_Thessaly 7.01
4 Tuscan 8.08
5 Italian_Abruzzo 8.27
6 Romanian 8.74
7 West_Sicilian 9.51
8 Central_Greek 9.88
9 East_Sicilian 10.55
10 Ashkenazi 10.7
11 North_Italian 11.77
12 Serbian 11.81
13 South_Italian 12.73
14 Italian_Jewish 16.72
15 Sephardic_Jewish 17.16
16 Austrian 17.84
17 Moldavian 17.91
18 Algerian_Jewish 17.94
19 Spanish_Extremadura 18.27
20 Portuguese 18.33

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 58.5% South_Italian + 41.5% Austrian @ 2.01
2 59% Bulgarian + 41% West_Sicilian @ 2.18
3 52.2% Romanian + 47.8% West_Sicilian @ 2.38
4 81.1% Italian_Abruzzo + 18.9% Lithuanian @ 2.43
5 86.2% Greek + 13.8% Irish @ 2.44
6 79.4% Italian_Abruzzo + 20.6% Belorussian @ 2.46
7 79.4% Italian_Abruzzo + 20.6% Estonian_Polish @ 2.48
8 86.5% Greek + 13.5% West_Scottish @ 2.49
9 84.8% Greek + 15.2% North_German @ 2.5
10 78.1% Italian_Abruzzo + 21.9% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.57
11 86.2% Greek + 13.8% Danish @ 2.61
12 85.8% Greek + 14.2% Southeast_English @ 2.61
13 86.3% Greek + 13.7% North_Dutch @ 2.62
14 75.4% West_Sicilian + 24.6% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.68
15 78.8% West_Sicilian + 21.2% Lithuanian @ 2.7
16 87.2% Greek + 12.8% Orcadian @ 2.72
17 75.7% West_Sicilian + 24.3% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.73
18 83.1% Greek + 16.9% South_Dutch @ 2.76
19 65% Central_Greek + 35% Austrian @ 2.77
20 76.9% West_Sicilian + 23.1% Belorussian @ 2.81

Greekscholar
07-24-2019, 01:02 AM
Sorry I wasn't clear. That Kastellorizo sample you posted was the one that came back with the Cypriot-like coordinates. The Thessalian was clearly a mainland Greek when charted with K15.

I'll post some K16 info tomorrow. I think it has some utility, even though many of the samples aren't labeled well. Greece(Greece) anyone? :)

Sikeliot
07-24-2019, 11:57 AM
Sorry I wasn't clear. That Kastellorizo sample you posted was the one that came back with the Cypriot-like coordinates. The Thessalian was clearly a mainland Greek when charted with K15.

I'll post some K16 info tomorrow. I think it has some utility, even though many of the samples aren't labeled well. Greece(Greece) anyone? :)


Ahh ok I understand now, thank you for clarifying.

I found an interesting Sicilian result... I feel this one is similar to some Chios/Ikaria people you posted, what do you think? This one is from Polizzi Generosa, in Palermo. They are also very close to Ashkenazim which makes sense as so were your Ikarians.

I think they would plot similarly to your Ikaria results on the Eurogenes K15 plot also.

MDLP K23:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 38.16
2 European_Early_Farmers 21.8
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 12.24
4 Near_East 11.79
5 South_Central_Asian 6.78
6 North_African 6.26
7 East_African 1.86
8 Arctic 0.69
9 Amerindian 0.42

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian_East ( ) 3.9
2 Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) 4.07
3 French_Jew ( ) 4.32
4 Ashkenazi ( ) 4.85
5 Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) 4.98
6 Italian_Jew ( ) 5.21
7 Turk_Jew ( ) 5.24
8 Sephardic_Jew ( ) 5.29
9 Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) 5.88
10 Cretan ( ) 5.99
11 Romanian_Jew ( ) 6.19
12 Sicilian_Agrigento ( ) 6.52
13 Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) 6.66
14 Greek_Thessaly ( ) 7.01
15 Sicilian_West ( ) 7.08
16 Central_Greek ( ) 7.78
17 Albanian_Tirana ( ) 7.83
18 Greek_Northwest ( ) 7.95
19 Maltese ( ) 7.96
20 Sicilian_Trapani ( ) 8

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 89.4% Sicilian_East ( ) + 10.6% Ain_Touta_WGA ( ) @ 1.9
2 88.8% Cretan ( ) + 11.2% Spanish_Canarias_IBS ( ) @ 1.98
3 54.7% Cretan ( ) + 45.3% Sicilian_West ( ) @ 2.12
4 67.7% Sicilian_West ( ) + 32.3% Cypriot ( ) @ 2.19
5 87.2% Cretan ( ) + 12.8% Portugese ( ) @ 2.2
6 84.5% Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) + 15.5% Kurd_Jew ( ) @ 2.22
7 83.7% Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) + 16.3% Iraqi_Mandean ( ) @ 2.24
8 57.9% Cretan ( ) + 42.1% Maltese ( ) @ 2.25
9 52.4% Cretan ( ) + 47.6% Sicilian_Agrigento ( ) @ 2.29
10 84.6% Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) + 15.4% Uzbekistani_Jew ( ) @ 2.3
11 84.7% Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) + 15.3% Iranian_Jew ( ) @ 2.32
12 89.2% Sicilian_East ( ) + 10.8% Kurd_South ( ) @ 2.34
13 81.6% Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) + 18.4% Iraqi_Chaldean ( ) @ 2.36
14 90.9% Sicilian_East ( ) + 9.1% Iranian ( ) @ 2.36
15 79.4% Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) + 20.6% Turk_Adana ( ) @ 2.38
16 77.2% Sicilian_West ( ) + 22.8% Christian_Arabs_Israel ( ) @ 2.39
17 82.7% Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) + 17.3% Georgian_Jew ( ) @ 2.4
18 58.2% Cretan ( ) + 41.8% Sicilian_Trapani ( ) @ 2.4
19 85.9% Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) + 14.1% Uzbek_Tashkent ( ) @ 2.41
20 89.1% Cretan ( ) + 10.9% Spanish_Castilla_y_Leon_IBS ( ) @ 2.42


Eurogenes K15:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 28.6
2 West_Asian 16.12
3 West_Med 14.94
4 Atlantic 14.87
5 North_Sea 9.47
6 Baltic 7.16
7 Red_Sea 5.81
8 Northeast_African 1.56
9 Eastern_Euro 1.47
10 Southeast_Asian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 East_Sicilian 3.6
2 Central_Greek 3.89
3 South_Italian 4.09
4 Italian_Abruzzo 5.1
5 Ashkenazi 6.28
6 West_Sicilian 6.95
7 Italian_Jewish 8.33
8 Sephardic_Jewish 8.45
9 Greek 8.95
10 Greek_Thessaly 10.02
11 Algerian_Jewish 10.19
12 Tuscan 11.48
13 Tunisian_Jewish 12.28
14 Cyprian 14.45
15 Libyan_Jewish 14.68
16 Bulgarian 15.99
17 Lebanese_Muslim 16.87
18 Turkish 17.13
19 Syrian 17.97
20 North_Italian 17.99

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 79.7% Italian_Abruzzo + 20.3% Lebanese_Muslim @ 2.82
2 83.3% Italian_Abruzzo + 16.7% Samaritan @ 2.94
3 84.1% Italian_Abruzzo + 15.9% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.96
4 83.3% Italian_Abruzzo + 16.7% Jordanian @ 2.96
5 77.4% Italian_Abruzzo + 22.6% Cyprian @ 2.97
6 84.7% Italian_Abruzzo + 15.3% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.02
7 81.2% Italian_Abruzzo + 18.8% Syrian @ 3.03
8 84.2% Italian_Abruzzo + 15.8% Palestinian @ 3.04
9 83.8% Central_Greek + 16.2% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.14
10 85.3% Italian_Abruzzo + 14.7% Iranian_Jewish @ 3.15
11 60% Tuscan + 40% Lebanese_Muslim @ 3.18
12 92.8% East_Sicilian + 7.2% Assyrian @ 3.18
13 93.3% East_Sicilian + 6.7% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.19
14 94% South_Italian + 6% La_Brana-1 @ 3.19
15 93.6% South_Italian + 6.4% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.19
16 93.6% East_Sicilian + 6.4% Kurdish @ 3.19
17 93.7% South_Italian + 6.3% Russian_Smolensk @ 3.21
18 94% South_Italian + 6% Belorussian @ 3.21
19 93.8% South_Italian + 6.2% Southwest_Russian @ 3.21
20 91.1% East_Sicilian + 8.9% Turkish @ 3.21


Dodecad K12b:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 35.49
2 Atlantic_Med 23.85
3 North_European 16.08
4 Southwest_Asian 12.95
5 Gedrosia 5.33
6 Northwest_African 4.31
7 East_African 0.78
8 Southeast_Asian 0.53
9 South_Asian 0.52
10 Sub_Saharan 0.17

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 5.04
2 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 5.38
3 Sicilian (Dodecad) 7.13
4 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 7.17
5 Greek (Dodecad) 7.48
6 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 10.39
7 C_Italian (Dodecad) 11.65
8 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 12.95
9 O_Italian (Dodecad) 13.49
10 Tuscan (HGDP) 15.6
11 TSI30 (Metspalu) 16.73
12 Cypriots (Behar) 17.29
13 Turkish (Dodecad) 18.05
14 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 19.31
15 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 19.83
16 Lebanese (Behar) 20.27
17 Turks (Behar) 20.45
18 Romanians (Behar) 20.99
19 N_Italian (Dodecad) 22.26
20 Syrians (Behar) 23.17

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 65.3% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 34.7% Bulgarian (Dodecad) @ 1.8
2 83.8% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 16.2% Russian_B (Behar) @ 1.91
3 82.3% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 17.7% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) @ 1.98
4 84% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 16% Belorussian (Behar) @ 2.13
5 67.3% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 32.7% Romanians (Behar) @ 2.17
6 85.4% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 14.6% Lithuanian (Dodecad) @ 2.21
7 83.2% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 16.8% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) @ 2.21
8 83.9% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 16.1% Russian (Dodecad) @ 2.22
9 83.6% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 16.4% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 2.28
10 86.2% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 13.8% Lithuanians (Behar) @ 2.3
11 66.1% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 33.9% Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) @ 2.41
12 83.1% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 16.9% Polish (Dodecad) @ 2.67
13 84.3% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 15.7% Russian (HGDP) @ 2.75
14 86.7% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 13.3% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 3.16
15 92.8% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 7.2% Swedish (Dodecad) @ 3.19
16 90% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 10% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) @ 3.23
17 86.4% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 13.6% FIN30 (1000Genomes) @ 3.23
18 92.9% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 7.1% Norwegian (Dodecad) @ 3.29
19 91.2% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 8.8% German (Dodecad) @ 3.29
20 94.3% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 5.7% FIN30 (1000Genomes) @ 3.32

Greekscholar
07-24-2019, 02:19 PM
Here is what I mean about K16.

Here is me again.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 40.65
2 Neolithic 25.72
3 Steppe 12.59
4 NorthEastEuropean 9.47
5 NorthAfrican 5.59
6 NearEast 5.44
7 EastAfrican 0.31
8 Oceanic 0.22

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian (SouthItaly) 3.37
2 Greek (Athens) 3.98
3 Jew (Ashkenazi) 4.03
4 Sicilian (Sicily) 4.2
5 Maltese (Malta) 4.44
6 Jew (Ashkenazim) 5.06
7 Greek (Greece) 5.18
8 Italian (Abruzzo) 5.53
9 Greek (Macedonia) 6.07
10 Jew (Bulgaria) 6.62
11 Greek (Peloponnes) 6.89
12 Greek (Greece) 6.89
13 Albanian (Albania) 7.21
14 Jew (Italian) 7.41
15 Greek (Thessaloniki) 7.44
16 Jew (Ashkenazi) 7.52
17 Jew (Sephardim) 8.25
18 Jew (Turkey) 8.32
19 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 8.63
20 Jew (Algeria) 9.36

Here is a Greek Cypriot

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 50.72
2 Neolithic 21.86
3 NearEast 10.39
4 Steppe 9.28
5 NorthEastEuropean 3.33
6 Indian 1.82
7 NorthAfrican 1.6
8 EastAfrican 0.98

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Cypriot (Cyprus) 3.69
2 Lebanese_Christian (Lebanon) 7.87
3 Armenian (Lebanon) 8.22
4 Jew (Syria) 9.05
5 Arab_Israel (Iqrit) 9.42
6 Druze (Mount_Carmel) 9.49
7 Lebanese_Muslim (Lebanon) 9.58
8 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 9.59
9 Armenian (Armenia) 9.72
10 Armenian (Vanatur_Hrazdan) 9.91
11 Greek (Azov) 9.97
12 Turk (Adana) 10.24
13 Armenian (Erzrum) 10.34
14 Greek (Greece) 10.34
15 Turk (Kayseri) 10.38
16 Armenian (Yerevan) 10.58
17 Samaritan (Israel) 10.73
18 Jew (Georgia) 10.76
19 Armenian (Yegvard) 10.82
20 Lebanese (Lebanon) 10.88

Here is one of the brothers from Kalymnos


# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 45.14
2 Neolithic 24.84
3 Steppe 11.96
4 NearEast 7.63
5 NorthEastEuropean 5.31
6 NorthAfrican 3.16
7 Indian 1.17
8 Australian 0.79

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek (Greece) 5.59
2 Greek (Athens) 6.52
3 Jew (Ashkenazi) 7.11
4 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 7.16
5 Jew (Bulgaria) 7.17
6 Italian (SouthItaly) 7.53
7 Jew (Italian) 7.63
8 Jew (Turkey) 7.97
9 Jew (Ashkenazim) 7.97
10 Jew (Sephardim) 8
11 Sicilian (Sicily) 8.4
12 Maltese (Malta) 9.21
13 Cypriot (Cyprus) 9.24
14 Greek (Azov) 9.36
15 Jew (Algeria) 9.52
16 Greek (Macedonia) 9.56
17 Jew (Syria) 9.99
18 Jew (Morocco) 10.1
19 Italian (Abruzzo) 10.19
20 Jew (Ashkenazi) 10.24


The Caucasus percent goes up as you grade towards Cyprus from Southern Italy, and the NEE and Steppe decrease. You can probably think of those later two categories as your "mainland shift" as those genetic elements keep increasing as you head into mainland Greece and further into the Balkans, and Europe. You will also see a wealth of good Oracle samples for Greece (shame some are poorly labeled, but we run into the same problem with K15's "Central Greece.") The Jewish samples are also very numerous. I am not sure how these would plot on a PCA, but it is a pretty easy test to eye-ball Greeks. I can post a mainlander too, but *spolier alert* what you will see is Steppe and NEE go up and Caucasus goes down.

Greekscholar
07-24-2019, 02:31 PM
Yes, that Palermo sample would plot just west of the Fourni cluster and very close to the two non-Cyprus shifted Ikarian samples as well.

Sikeliot
07-24-2019, 03:22 PM
Yes, that Palermo sample would plot just west of the Fourni cluster and very close to the two non-Cyprus shifted Ikarian samples as well.

Which island do you think Sicilians are closest to? I would say Ikaria and Crete but really you can find overlap with all of them. The whole spectrum.

Greekscholar
07-24-2019, 05:34 PM
Well, based on the data from the various PCAs in this thread, I would say the evidence at hand points to the samples from Fourni and Ikaria being the closest match to Sicily, with Chios and Samos also mapping pretty close. I think it makes more sense to think of Crete as a "mother island" that contains most of the diversity found in the smaller islands. That is what Alkaevli's PCA indicated and it makes intuitive sense that a big island that never experienced depopulation would be able to seed the various other islands with subsets of its diversity based on founder effect/genetic drift. That said, it is just a theory and I am personally baffled as to why I can't find any Cretans on Gedmatch. Literally I found 2 kits with one Cretan grandparent, and that was it. I strike out with Samos too, as my cousin matches from there have admixture with other populations.

Sikeliot
07-24-2019, 09:58 PM
Well, based on the data from the various PCAs in this thread, I would say the evidence at hand points to the samples from Fourni and Ikaria being the closest match to Sicily, with Chios and Samos also mapping pretty close. I think it makes more sense to think of Crete as a "mother island" that contains most of the diversity found in the smaller islands. That is what Alkaevli's PCA indicated and it makes intuitive sense that a big island that never experienced depopulation would be able to seed the various other islands with subsets of its diversity based on founder effect/genetic drift. That said, it is just a theory and I am personally baffled as to why I can't find any Cretans on Gedmatch. Literally I found 2 kits with one Cretan grandparent, and that was it. I strike out with Samos too, as my cousin matches from there have admixture with other populations.


My inclination would be that Ikaria, Fourni, and the more "indigenous" (less mainland influenced) Chios results are closest to the Sicilian average, but I would add that you find Sicilians who fill the whole Aegean island range. Some Palermitans and Messinese/Catanese will be more like some Dodecanese, while you have some Syracusans closer to Maniots and the more "mainland" shifted Aegean islanders like Cyclades. There is variation. I think you were right in saying larger islands have more variation.

Greekscholar
07-25-2019, 01:00 AM
My inclination would be that Ikaria, Fourni, and the more "indigenous" (less mainland influenced) Chios results are closest to the Sicilian average, but I would add that you find Sicilians who fill the whole Aegean island range. Some Palermitans and Messinese/Catanese will be more like some Dodecanese, while you have some Syracusans closer to Maniots and the more "mainland" shifted Aegean islanders like Cyclades. There is variation. I think you were right in saying larger islands have more variation.

There are some good points in there, but I personally wouldn't think of Greek islanders as being more "indigenous" than mainland Greeks. The Slavic migrations and subsequent Hellenization took place over 1,000 years ago. Fourni was only repopulated for the most recent time in the 1830-1840s. We are still figuring out where those people were from. As mentioned, Chios and Samos are similar stories. Ikaria is a bit different, sort of like Mani, a people whose poverty, isolation, and lack of natural resources lead conquering armies to overlook them.

I would suggest the next step in your research to be looking at these smaller islands for evidence of founder effect/genetic drift and pedigree collapse. Keyholes through keyholes for some islands, which can be seen very easily using GEDmatch. Try your samples from small islands and see if the same 50-100 cousins keep coming up for each individual. I see that for Fourni, Ikaria, Kalymnos, and to a lesser extent on other islands.

TonyC
07-25-2019, 02:40 AM
Here is what I mean about K16.

Here is me again.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 40.65
2 Neolithic 25.72
3 Steppe 12.59
4 NorthEastEuropean 9.47
5 NorthAfrican 5.59
6 NearEast 5.44
7 EastAfrican 0.31
8 Oceanic 0.22

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian (SouthItaly) 3.37
2 Greek (Athens) 3.98
3 Jew (Ashkenazi) 4.03
4 Sicilian (Sicily) 4.2
5 Maltese (Malta) 4.44
6 Jew (Ashkenazim) 5.06
7 Greek (Greece) 5.18
8 Italian (Abruzzo) 5.53
9 Greek (Macedonia) 6.07
10 Jew (Bulgaria) 6.62
11 Greek (Peloponnes) 6.89
12 Greek (Greece) 6.89
13 Albanian (Albania) 7.21
14 Jew (Italian) 7.41
15 Greek (Thessaloniki) 7.44
16 Jew (Ashkenazi) 7.52
17 Jew (Sephardim) 8.25
18 Jew (Turkey) 8.32
19 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 8.63
20 Jew (Algeria) 9.36

Here is a Greek Cypriot

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 50.72
2 Neolithic 21.86
3 NearEast 10.39
4 Steppe 9.28
5 NorthEastEuropean 3.33
6 Indian 1.82
7 NorthAfrican 1.6
8 EastAfrican 0.98

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Cypriot (Cyprus) 3.69
2 Lebanese_Christian (Lebanon) 7.87
3 Armenian (Lebanon) 8.22
4 Jew (Syria) 9.05
5 Arab_Israel (Iqrit) 9.42
6 Druze (Mount_Carmel) 9.49
7 Lebanese_Muslim (Lebanon) 9.58
8 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 9.59
9 Armenian (Armenia) 9.72
10 Armenian (Vanatur_Hrazdan) 9.91
11 Greek (Azov) 9.97
12 Turk (Adana) 10.24
13 Armenian (Erzrum) 10.34
14 Greek (Greece) 10.34
15 Turk (Kayseri) 10.38
16 Armenian (Yerevan) 10.58
17 Samaritan (Israel) 10.73
18 Jew (Georgia) 10.76
19 Armenian (Yegvard) 10.82
20 Lebanese (Lebanon) 10.88

Here is one of the brothers from Kalymnos


# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 45.14
2 Neolithic 24.84
3 Steppe 11.96
4 NearEast 7.63
5 NorthEastEuropean 5.31
6 NorthAfrican 3.16
7 Indian 1.17
8 Australian 0.79

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek (Greece) 5.59
2 Greek (Athens) 6.52
3 Jew (Ashkenazi) 7.11
4 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 7.16
5 Jew (Bulgaria) 7.17
6 Italian (SouthItaly) 7.53
7 Jew (Italian) 7.63
8 Jew (Turkey) 7.97
9 Jew (Ashkenazim) 7.97
10 Jew (Sephardim) 8
11 Sicilian (Sicily) 8.4
12 Maltese (Malta) 9.21
13 Cypriot (Cyprus) 9.24
14 Greek (Azov) 9.36
15 Jew (Algeria) 9.52
16 Greek (Macedonia) 9.56
17 Jew (Syria) 9.99
18 Jew (Morocco) 10.1
19 Italian (Abruzzo) 10.19
20 Jew (Ashkenazi) 10.24


The Caucasus percent goes up as you grade towards Cyprus from Southern Italy, and the NEE and Steppe decrease. You can probably think of those later two categories as your "mainland shift" as those genetic elements keep increasing as you head into mainland Greece and further into the Balkans, and Europe. You will also see a wealth of good Oracle samples for Greece (shame some are poorly labeled, but we run into the same problem with K15's "Central Greece.") The Jewish samples are also very numerous. I am not sure how these would plot on a PCA, but it is a pretty easy test to eye-ball Greeks. I can post a mainlander too, but *spolier alert* what you will see is Steppe and NEE go up and Caucasus goes down.

K16 tends to waffle a bit. I'm a mainland Peloponnesian Greek and my results are really strange with odd close and distant matches;
# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian (Tuscany) 5.74
2 Greek (Greece) 5.98
3 Italian (Abruzzo) 6.38
4 Kosovar (Kosovo) 6.66
5 Greek (Thessaloniki) 6.69
6 Albanian (Albania) 6.79
7 Greek (Peloponnes) 7.16
8 Italian (NorthIitaly) 7.87
9 Gagauz (Gagauzia) 8.47
10 Greek (Macedonia) 8.54
11 Italian (SouthItaly) 8.78
12 Sicilian (Sicily) 8.79
13 Greek (Athens) 9.25
14 Macedonian (Macedonia) 9.31
15 Corsican (Corsica) 9.34
16 Bulgarian (Bulgaria) 9.4
17 Romanian (Romania) 10.02
18 Italian (Bergamo) 10.22
19 Romanian (Gorj) 10.32
20 Jew (Ashkenazi) 10.46

Sikeliot
07-25-2019, 11:45 AM
There are some good points in there, but I personally wouldn't think of Greek islanders as being more "indigenous" than mainland Greeks. The Slavic migrations and subsequent Hellenization took place over 1,000 years ago. Fourni was only repopulated for the most recent time in the 1830-1840s. We are still figuring out where those people were from. As mentioned, Chios and Samos are similar stories. Ikaria is a bit different, sort of like Mani, a people whose poverty, isolation, and lack of natural resources lead conquering armies to overlook them.

I would suggest the next step in your research to be looking at these smaller islands for evidence of founder effect/genetic drift and pedigree collapse. Keyholes through keyholes for some islands, which can be seen very easily using GEDmatch. Try your samples from small islands and see if the same 50-100 cousins keep coming up for each individual. I see that for Fourni, Ikaria, Kalymnos, and to a lesser extent on other islands.


I do not like the K16 calculator much due to poor Oracle labeling but since you used it, I will for comparison's sake between my Sicilians and your Kalymnian, I will use it to humor you :lol: ;)

There is variation in Sicily that I think spans the whole Greek islands spectrum. For instance, I notice the north coast (Messina and Palermo) have higher Caucasus, lower North Euro which makes them more like a Dodecanese, while the south and west coasts have more North African and lower Caucasus, and higher North Euro.

So you will find people shifting in all different directions.

This is from the city of Palermo. This one is very similar to your Kalymnian. See the Caucasus shift. If you look at the percentages compared to your Kalymnian, they're actually almost identical. I think this is because the north and inland coast of Sicily is more genetically 'preserved' (i.e. less Norman, less recent Italian, and less mainland Greek settlement).


# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 41.29
2 Neolithic 24.05
3 Steppe 13.91
4 NearEast 7.04
5 NorthEastEuropean 7
6 NorthAfrican 5.22
7 Indian 0.66
8 Subsaharian 0.47
9 Oceanic 0.29
10 Amerindian 0.06

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Jew (Ashkenazi) 3.98
2 Italian (SouthItaly) 4.71
3 Jew (Ashkenazim) 5.37
4 Greek (Athens) 5.45
5 Jew (Bulgaria) 5.56
6 Greek (Greece) 5.74
7 Sicilian (Sicily) 5.81
8 Maltese (Malta) 6.41
9 Jew (Italian) 6.57
10 Jew (Sephardim) 6.61
11 Jew (Turkey) 6.82
12 Italian (Abruzzo) 7
13 Greek (Macedonia) 7.14
14 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 7.22
15 Jew (Ashkenazi) 7.47
16 Jew (Algeria) 8.11
17 Jew (Morocco) 8.8
18 Greek (Peloponnes) 8.83
19 Greek (Greece) 9.06
20 Greek (Azov) 9.77

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 88.4% Italian (SouthItaly) + 11.6% Georgian (Tbilisi) @ 2.59
2 85.1% Italian (SouthItaly) + 14.9% Armenian (Armenia) @ 2.73
3 86.3% Italian (SouthItaly) + 13.7% Georgian (Megrelia) @ 2.74
4 86.5% Italian (SouthItaly) + 13.5% Abhkasian (Abkhasia) @ 2.78
5 85.9% Italian (SouthItaly) + 14.1% Georgians (Zugdidi) @ 2.79
6 86% Italian (SouthItaly) + 14% Abkhazian (Gudauta) @ 2.81
7 83.9% Italian (SouthItaly) + 16.1% Georgian_Abkhazia (Abkhazia) @ 2.83
8 85.1% Italian (SouthItaly) + 14.9% Georgian (Georgia) @ 2.85
9 85.5% Sicilian (Sicily) + 14.5% Georgian (Tbilisi) @ 2.87
10 84.5% Italian (SouthItaly) + 15.5% Adjar (Adjaria) @ 2.94
11 82.2% Sicilian (Sicily) + 17.8% Abkhazian (Gudauta) @ 2.95
12 85.9% Italian (SouthItaly) + 14.1% Armenian (Armenia) @ 2.95
13 82.9% Sicilian (Sicily) + 17.1% Georgian (Megrelia) @ 2.97
14 86.8% Italian (SouthItaly) + 13.2% Adygei (Adygea) @ 2.99
15 87.3% Italian (SouthItaly) + 12.7% Turk (Trabzon) @ 3
16 85.7% Italian (SouthItaly) + 14.3% Abkhazian_Lykhny (Lykhny) @ 3.01
17 83.1% Sicilian (Sicily) + 16.9% Abhkasian (Abkhasia) @ 3.04
18 82.3% Sicilian (Sicily) + 17.7% Georgians (Zugdidi) @ 3.04
19 87.6% Italian (SouthItaly) + 12.4% Chechen (Chechnya) @ 3.05
20 83.5% Italian (SouthItaly) + 16.5% Assyrian (Armenia) @ 3.06


This is another Palermitan, also similar to your Dodecanese and shifted to the Caucasus:


# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 39.28
2 Neolithic 25.57
3 Steppe 12.95
4 NorthEastEuropean 6.47
5 NearEast 5.59
6 NorthAfrican 5.08
7 Indian 1.88
8 EastAfrican 1.27
9 Oceanic 0.98
10 Arctic 0.68
11 SouthEastAsian 0.25

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian (SouthItaly) 3.18
2 Jew (Ashkenazi) 4.07
3 Sicilian (Sicily) 4.36
4 Maltese (Malta) 5.05
5 Jew (Ashkenazim) 5.11
6 Greek (Athens) 5.38
7 Jew (Bulgaria) 5.63
8 Italian (Abruzzo) 6.17
9 Jew (Italian) 6.29
10 Greek (Greece) 6.67
11 Jew (Turkey) 6.7
12 Jew (Sephardim) 7.03
13 Jew (Ashkenazi) 7.12
14 Greek (Macedonia) 7.6
15 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 7.78
16 Jew (Algeria) 7.94
17 Greek (Peloponnes) 8.07
18 Greek (Greece) 8.28
19 Jew (Morocco) 8.59
20 Albanian (Albania) 9

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 90.5% Italian (SouthItaly) + 9.5% Georgian_Abkhazia (Abkhazia) @ 2.27
2 92.1% Italian (SouthItaly) + 7.9% Abkhazian (Gudauta) @ 2.35
3 91.8% Italian (SouthItaly) + 8.2% Georgian (Georgia) @ 2.43
4 91.6% Italian (SouthItaly) + 8.4% Adjar (Adjaria) @ 2.48
5 89.8% Italian (SouthItaly) + 10.2% Armenian (Erzrum) @ 2.48
6 92.7% Italian (SouthItaly) + 7.3% Georgians (Zugdidi) @ 2.5
7 93.1% Italian (SouthItaly) + 6.9% Abhkasian (Abkhasia) @ 2.51
8 91% Italian (SouthItaly) + 9% Assyrian (Armenia) @ 2.52
9 92.3% Italian (SouthItaly) + 7.7% Abkhazian_Lykhny (Lykhny) @ 2.52
10 91.1% Italian (SouthItaly) + 8.9% Assyrian (Turkey) @ 2.52
11 93.3% Italian (SouthItaly) + 6.7% Turk (Trabzon) @ 2.53
12 92.7% Italian (SouthItaly) + 7.3% Armenian (Armenia) @ 2.54
13 91.1% Italian (SouthItaly) + 8.9% Jew (Azerbaijan) @ 2.61
14 93.5% Italian (SouthItaly) + 6.5% Adygei (Adygea) @ 2.63
15 93.8% Italian (SouthItaly) + 6.2% Chechen (Chechnya) @ 2.63
16 90.7% Italian (SouthItaly) + 9.3% Turk (Kayseri) @ 2.65
17 92.6% Italian (SouthItaly) + 7.4% Ossetian (North_Ossetia) @ 2.65
18 93.4% Italian (SouthItaly) + 6.6% Balkar (Kabardino-Balkaria) @ 2.65
19 91.9% Italian (SouthItaly) + 8.1% Jew (Uzbekistan) @ 2.67
20 92.4% Italian (SouthItaly) + 7.6% Azerbaijani_Dagestan (Azerbaijan_Dagestan) @ 2.67




But now we'll look at Trapani. According to the new Crete study, this particular province partially falls OUTSIDE of Cretan variation due to input from northern Italy, Normans, and British settlement and groups that did not settle Greece. See the shift toward UK and Ireland.


# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 35.17
2 Neolithic 26.91
3 Steppe 15
4 NorthEastEuropean 10.98
5 NearEast 4.97
6 NorthAfrican 4.59
7 EastAfrican 1.31
8 Oceanic 0.62
9 Ancestor 0.4
10 SouthEastAsian 0.06

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian (Abruzzo) 2.9
2 Greek (Greece) 3.88
3 Italian (SouthItaly) 4.61
4 Sicilian (Sicily) 4.64
5 Albanian (Albania) 4.72
6 Greek (Peloponnes) 4.77
7 Greek (Thessaloniki) 5.01
8 Maltese (Malta) 5.89
9 Jew (Ashkenazi) 6.18
10 Greek (Macedonia) 6.35
11 Kosovar (Kosovo) 6.36
12 Italian (Tuscany) 6.44
13 Jew (Ashkenazim) 6.69
14 Greek (Athens) 6.8
15 Jew (Belmonte) 7.13
16 Gagauz (Gagauzia) 7.35
17 Italian (NorthIitaly) 7.71
18 Jew (Ashkenazi) 8.16
19 Greek (Greece) 9.13
20 Jew (Bulgaria) 9.14

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 86.3% Italian (SouthItaly) + 13.7% Scottish (Argyll_bute) @ 2.1
2 86.6% Italian (SouthItaly) + 13.4% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) @ 2.14
3 85.1% Italian (SouthItaly) + 14.9% Irish (Connacht) @ 2.16
4 84.1% Italian (SouthItaly) + 15.9% French (France) @ 2.2
5 82.5% Italian (SouthItaly) + 17.5% German (Germany) @ 2.2
6 84.7% Italian (SouthItaly) + 15.3% English (England) @ 2.26
7 85.4% Italian (SouthItaly) + 14.6% Shetlandic (Shetland_Islands) @ 2.28
8 87.5% Italian (SouthItaly) + 12.5% Icelandic (Iceland) @ 2.28
9 87.3% Italian (SouthItaly) + 12.7% Norwegian (Norwegia) @ 2.29
10 84.8% Italian (SouthItaly) + 15.2% Dutch (Netherlands) @ 2.37
11 78.1% Italian (SouthItaly) + 21.9% Provencal (Provence) @ 2.4
12 67.2% Jew (Ashkenazi) + 32.8% Italian (Bergamo) @ 2.41
13 84.5% Italian (SouthItaly) + 15.5% Hungarian (WestUkraine) @ 2.42
14 83.8% Italian (SouthItaly) + 16.2% Welsh (Wales) @ 2.45
15 86.8% Italian (SouthItaly) + 13.2% Swede (Sweden) @ 2.49
16 84.4% Italian (SouthItaly) + 15.6% German_Lipsian ((Saxony)) @ 2.49
17 86.9% Sicilian (Sicily) + 13.1% Scottish (Argyll_bute) @ 2.54
18 74.9% Jew (Ashkenazi) + 25.1% Spanish (Baleares) @ 2.55
19 93.6% Italian (Abruzzo) + 6.4% Spanish (Canarias) @ 2.56
20 80.1% Corsican (Corsica) + 19.9% Georgian (Tbilisi) @ 2.58



In Ragusa we see a shift toward mainland Greece in this result:


# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 37.99
2 Neolithic 24.44
3 NorthEastEuropean 12.43
4 Steppe 11.66
5 NearEast 6.19
6 NorthAfrican 5.28
7 Oceanic 1.24
8 EastAfrican 0.67
9 Australian 0.1

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian (SouthItaly) 4.24
2 Italian (Abruzzo) 4.35
3 Jew (Ashkenazi) 4.37
4 Sicilian (Sicily) 4.41
5 Jew (Ashkenazim) 4.47
6 Greek (Peloponnes) 4.48
7 Maltese (Malta) 4.48
8 Greek (Macedonia) 4.78
9 Greek (Greece) 4.85
10 Albanian (Albania) 5.43
11 Greek (Athens) 5.74
12 Greek (Thessaloniki) 5.85
13 Jew (Ashkenazi) 6.72
14 Greek (Greece) 6.73
15 Jew (Bulgaria) 7.28
16 Gagauz (Gagauzia) 7.66
17 Kosovar (Kosovo) 7.93
18 Jew (Italian) 8.12
19 Jew (Belmonte) 8.52
20 Jew (Sephardim) 8.9

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 77% Greek (Greece) + 23% Jew (Libya) @ 2.25
2 53.3% Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) + 46.7% Bulgarian (Bulgaria) @ 2.3
3 52.2% Maltese (Malta) + 47.8% Greek (Macedonia) @ 2.39
4 76.5% Albanian (Albania) + 23.5% Jew (Tunisian) @ 2.44
5 81.9% Albanian (Albania) + 18.1% Palestinian (Israel) @ 2.52
6 75.3% Jew (Ashkenazi) + 24.7% Bulgarian (Bulgaria) @ 2.54
7 61.4% Jew (Bulgaria) + 38.6% Bulgarian (Bulgaria) @ 2.56
8 79.5% Albanian (Albania) + 20.5% Samaritan (Israel) @ 2.6
9 57.7% Jew (Ashkenazi) + 42.3% Albanian (Albania) @ 2.64
10 80.5% Albanian (Albania) + 19.5% Jordanian (Jordanian) @ 2.66
11 78.1% Albanian (Albania) + 21.9% Lebanese_Christian (Lebanon) @ 2.72
12 60.3% Jew (Ashkenazi) + 39.7% Greek (Thessaloniki) @ 2.77
13 85.9% Jew (Ashkenazi) + 14.1% Hungarian (Budapest) @ 2.78
14 79.8% Albanian (Albania) + 20.2% Arab_Israel (Iqrit) @ 2.78
15 68.9% Jew (Ashkenazi) + 31.1% Kosovar (Kosovo) @ 2.8
16 58.8% Macedonian (Macedonia) + 41.2% Jew (Tunisian) @ 2.81
17 84.8% Albanian (Albania) + 15.2% BedouinA (Negev) @ 2.82
18 68% Kosovar (Kosovo) + 32% Jew (Tunisian) @ 2.83
19 58.9% Romanian (Gorj) + 41.1% Cypriot (Cyprus) @ 2.84
20 54% Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) + 46% Macedonian (Macedonia) @ 2.84



This Messina result is like a Kalymnian or Cretan but with North African.


# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 39.07
2 Neolithic 25.61
3 Steppe 13.27
4 NearEast 7.29
5 NorthEastEuropean 7.14
6 NorthAfrican 6.11
7 EastAfrican 1.26
8 Oceanic 0.25

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian (SouthItaly) 3.25
2 Jew (Ashkenazi) 3.3
3 Sicilian (Sicily) 4.01
4 Jew (Ashkenazim) 4.34
5 Maltese (Malta) 4.52
6 Jew (Bulgaria) 4.71
7 Jew (Italian) 5.41
8 Italian (Abruzzo) 5.51
9 Greek (Athens) 6.1
10 Jew (Turkey) 6.18
11 Jew (Sephardim) 6.55
12 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 6.99
13 Jew (Algeria) 7.03
14 Jew (Ashkenazi) 7.09
15 Greek (Greece) 7.21
16 Greek (Macedonia) 7.68
17 Jew (Morocco) 7.81
18 Greek (Peloponnes) 8.11
19 Greek (Greece) 8.2
20 Albanian (Albania) 9.05

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 80.4% Italian (SouthItaly) + 19.6% Jew (Morocco) @ 2.71
2 79% Italian (SouthItaly) + 21% Jew (Algeria) @ 2.75
3 90.8% Italian (SouthItaly) + 9.2% Arab_Israel (Iqrit) @ 2.84
4 88.6% Italian (SouthItaly) + 11.4% Jew (Libya) @ 2.84
5 91.1% Italian (SouthItaly) + 8.9% Samaritan (Israel) @ 2.84
6 90.3% Italian (SouthItaly) + 9.7% Lebanese_Christian (Lebanon) @ 2.86
7 90.9% Italian (SouthItaly) + 9.1% Cypriot (Cyprus) @ 2.94
8 93.6% Italian (SouthItaly) + 6.4% Palestinian (Israel) @ 2.95
9 91.8% Italian (SouthItaly) + 8.2% Lebanese_Muslim (Lebanon) @ 2.96
10 93.2% Italian (SouthItaly) + 6.8% Jordanian (Jordanian) @ 2.98
11 94.9% Italian (SouthItaly) + 5.1% Georgian (Kakheti) @ 2.98
12 94.1% Italian (SouthItaly) + 5.9% Assyrian (Turkey) @ 2.99
13 94.5% Italian (SouthItaly) + 5.5% Georgian_Abkhazia (Abkhazia) @ 2.99
14 95.2% Italian (SouthItaly) + 4.8% Armenian (Armenia) @ 2.99
15 95.6% Italian (SouthItaly) + 4.4% Turk (Trabzon) @ 3
16 95.4% Italian (SouthItaly) + 4.6% Abkhazian (Gudauta) @ 3
17 95.2% Italian (SouthItaly) + 4.8% BedouinA (Negev) @ 3.01
18 95.1% Italian (SouthItaly) + 4.9% Egyptian (Mansoura_Cairo) @ 3.01
19 95.2% Italian (SouthItaly) + 4.8% Georgian (Georgia) @ 3.01
20 94% Italian (SouthItaly) + 6% Lebanese (Lebanon) @ 3.02

Greekscholar
07-25-2019, 02:00 PM
K16 tends to waffle a bit. I'm a mainland Peloponnesian Greek and my results are really strange with odd close and distant matches;
# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian (Tuscany) 5.74
2 Greek (Greece) 5.98
3 Italian (Abruzzo) 6.38
4 Kosovar (Kosovo) 6.66
5 Greek (Thessaloniki) 6.69
6 Albanian (Albania) 6.79
7 Greek (Peloponnes) 7.16
8 Italian (NorthIitaly) 7.87
9 Gagauz (Gagauzia) 8.47
10 Greek (Macedonia) 8.54
11 Italian (SouthItaly) 8.78
12 Sicilian (Sicily) 8.79
13 Greek (Athens) 9.25
14 Macedonian (Macedonia) 9.31
15 Corsican (Corsica) 9.34
16 Bulgarian (Bulgaria) 9.4
17 Romanian (Romania) 10.02
18 Italian (Bergamo) 10.22
19 Romanian (Gorj) 10.32
20 Jew (Ashkenazi) 10.46

Well, no one test works for everybody. I find this one works pretty well in sorting out Italy, Greece, and Jewish populations better than many others, especially since my focus is Greek islanders, which many other of these GEDmatch tests don't have good reference panels for. While your Oracle scores are pretty high, they are the populations mainland Greeks tend to cluster with on this test. The genetic similarity between mainland Greece, Albania, and Slavic Macedonians is pretty well established. Not sure about Northern Italy, probably a deeper similarity caused by a Mediterranean population being admixed with some northern European genes somewhere along the line. Does K15 work better for you?

Here is a Greek from Thessaly. Same regions, different order, closer Oracle score.

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek (Peloponnes) 3.37
2 Greek (Greece) 3.38
3 Greek (Macedonia) 3.67
4 Albanian (Albania) 3.93
5 Greek (Thessaloniki) 4.06
6 Italian (Abruzzo) 4.5
7 Greek (Athens) 4.79
8 Italian (SouthItaly) 5.55
9 Sicilian (Sicily) 5.57
10 Greek (Greece) 6.27
11 Kosovar (Kosovo) 6.27
12 Jew (Ashkenazi) 6.49
13 Jew (Ashkenazim) 6.61
14 Gagauz (Gagauzia) 6.92
15 Maltese (Malta) 7.21
16 Italian (Tuscany) 8.66
17 Jew (Ashkenazi) 8.76
18 Bulgarian (Bulgaria) 9.24
19 Jew (Bulgaria) 9.5
20 Italian (NorthIitaly) 9.73

Greekscholar
07-25-2019, 02:14 PM
Sikeliot, I am bit surprised you don't like the K16 Oracle. 5/6 of your Sicilians got a Southern Italian region as their top score, all 5 had a Southern Italian region with an Oracle score under 5, and all 5 went 20 deep on Oracle populations without hitting a distance of 10. Sure, they didn't come back "Sicilian" but being such a big island means having lots of internal diversity. The reference panel could be improved for that island, but do you really see better results on K15's Oracle? What I remember for most of the island Greeks is really large Oracle numbers (especially after the first few) that sometimes connect to really disparate populations.

I've come around to liking K15 because you can make your own PCA, but as you mention in the other thread you started, their built in Oracle populations for the groups we are looking at are very sparse and confusing.

Thanks for showing me those Sicilian kits. Their North Africa + Near East is much higher than your average Greek islander, more similar to how Jewish populations score on this test. My guess would be the still relatively high NEE + Steppe percents (20% or more in all but one sample) is what is helping Oracle identify them as most likely Southern Italian not Jewish.

Greekscholar
07-25-2019, 08:26 PM
One more K36. 4 grandparents from Messinia. It is a good example showing the connection between mainland Greece and Albania. This individual shows moderate connections to the Central/Eastern Mediterranean Continuum populations, and SE Europe as far north as Romania and the former Yugoslav republics. Cyprus is still a solid match in the 60s for this person, but their similarity scores crash as soon as you hit the Levant. This individual has 0 Arabian and only 4.31 NearEast on the K36 calculator.

Sikeliot
07-25-2019, 10:26 PM
Sikeliot, I am bit surprised you don't like the K16 Oracle. 5/6 of your Sicilians got a Southern Italian region as their top score, all 5 had a Southern Italian region with an Oracle score under 5, and all 5 went 20 deep on Oracle populations without hitting a distance of 10. Sure, they didn't come back "Sicilian" but being such a big island means having lots of internal diversity. The reference panel could be improved for that island, but do you really see better results on K15's Oracle? What I remember for most of the island Greeks is really large Oracle numbers (especially after the first few) that sometimes connect to really disparate populations.

I've come around to liking K15 because you can make your own PCA, but as you mention in the other thread you started, their built in Oracle populations for the groups we are looking at are very sparse and confusing.

Thanks for showing me those Sicilian kits. Their North Africa + Near East is much higher than your average Greek islander, more similar to how Jewish populations score on this test. My guess would be the still relatively high NEE + Steppe percents (20% or more in all but one sample) is what is helping Oracle identify them as most likely Southern Italian not Jewish.


What I dislike about the calculator is the poor labeling of the samples in the Oracle. I like the calculator itself. I was not clear, sorry.

Here are some more islands and more Sicilians... I put Cretans here since you said you have none.


Patmos:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 38.88
2 Neolithic 28.59
3 Steppe 15.48
4 NorthEastEuropean 8.65
5 NearEast 4.39
6 NorthAfrican 2.08
7 Arctic 0.89
8 Australian 0.52
9 EastAfrican 0.33
10 Ancestor 0.19

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek (Athens) 4.74
2 Italian (SouthItaly) 5.08
3 Italian (Abruzzo) 5.46
4 Sicilian (Sicily) 5.59
5 Greek (Greece) 6.31
6 Greek (Thessaloniki) 6.58
7 Albanian (Albania) 6.66
8 Greek (Macedonia) 6.98
9 Greek (Peloponnes) 7.05
10 Jew (Ashkenazi) 7.1
11 Greek (Greece) 7.37
12 Maltese (Malta) 7.63
13 Italian (Tuscany) 7.98
14 Jew (Ashkenazim) 8.05
15 Kosovar (Kosovo) 8.85
16 Jew (Bulgaria) 9.75
17 Jew (Ashkenazi) 9.75
18 Jew (Italian) 10.3
19 Gagauz (Gagauzia) 10.64
20 Italian (NorthIitaly) 10.72

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53.2% Spanish (Castilla_la_Mancha) + 46.8% Turk (Trabzon) @ 2.69
2 91.5% Greek (Athens) + 8.5% Basque (France) @ 2.79
3 79.3% Italian (Tuscany) + 20.7% Turk (Trabzon) @ 2.79
4 55.7% Spanish (Andalucia) + 44.3% Turk (Trabzon) @ 2.89
5 81.9% Italian (Tuscany) + 18.1% Georgian (Tbilisi) @ 2.97
6 78.4% Italian (Tuscany) + 21.6% Armenian (Armenia) @ 3.01
7 90.3% Greek (Athens) + 9.7% French (SouthFrance) @ 3.01
8 90.7% Greek (Athens) + 9.3% Spanish (Pais_Vasco) @ 3.06
9 77.1% Italian (Tuscany) + 22.9% Georgian (Laz) @ 3.07
10 87.5% Greek (Athens) + 12.5% Spanish (Castilla_la_Mancha) @ 3.09
11 86% Greek (Greece) + 14% Basque (France) @ 3.12
12 88.5% Greek (Athens) + 11.5% Spanish (Aragon) @ 3.22
13 78% Italian (Tuscany) + 22% Georgian (Kakheti) @ 3.25
14 76.6% Italian (Tuscany) + 23.4% Georgian_Abkhazia (Abkhazia) @ 3.27
15 78% Italian (Tuscany) + 22% Georgian (Georgia) @ 3.3
16 54.4% Turk (Trabzon) + 45.6% French (SouthFrance) @ 3.32
17 87.2% Greek (Athens) + 12.8% Spanish (Andalucia) @ 3.37
18 68.5% Greek (Athens) + 31.5% Italian (Tuscany) @ 3.38
19 79% Italian (Tuscany) + 21% Georgians (Zugdidi) @ 3.41
20 79.1% Italian (Tuscany) + 20.9% Abkhazian (Gudauta) @ 3.45


Chios:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 44.5
2 Neolithic 23.09
3 Steppe 12.43
4 NorthEastEuropean 11.49
5 NearEast 5.1
6 NorthAfrican 2.13
7 Indian 0.52
8 Ancestor 0.49
9 Australian 0.25

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek (Greece) 2.5
2 Greek (Athens) 4.23
3 Greek (Macedonia) 5.21
4 Jew (Ashkenazi) 7.05
5 Italian (SouthItaly) 7.51
6 Jew (Ashkenazim) 7.87
7 Greek (Azov) 8.22
8 Greek (Peloponnes) 8.25
9 Sicilian (Sicily) 8.27
10 Greek (Greece) 8.67
11 Italian (Abruzzo) 8.81
12 Greek (Thessaloniki) 8.87
13 Albanian (Albania) 8.9
14 Maltese (Malta) 8.93
15 Jew (Bulgaria) 9.31
16 Jew (Ashkenazi) 9.74
17 Turk (Istanbul) 9.99
18 Turk (Turkey) 10.04
19 Jew (Italian) 10.39
20 Jew (Sephardim) 10.5

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 73.4% Greek (Greece) + 26.6% Turk (Trabzon) @ 1.98
2 96.7% Greek (Greece) + 3.3% Russians-West (WestRussian) @ 2.24
3 71.2% Albanian (Albania) + 28.8% Armenian (Armenia) @ 2.24
4 97.1% Greek (Greece) + 2.9% Latvian_Cesis (Cesis) @ 2.24
5 97% Greek (Greece) + 3% Lithuanian (Lithuania) @ 2.26
6 95.1% Greek (Greece) + 4.9% Tabasaran (Dagestan) @ 2.27
7 67% Kosovar (Kosovo) + 33% Turk (Trabzon) @ 2.27
8 96.8% Greek (Greece) + 3.2% Belarusian (Belarus) @ 2.27
9 96.7% Greek (Greece) + 3.3% Pole (Poland) @ 2.28
10 95.8% Greek (Greece) + 4.2% Cossack (Zaporozhie) @ 2.28
11 97.3% Greek (Greece) + 2.7% Russian (Russia) @ 2.29
12 97.4% Greek (Greece) + 2.6% Latvian_Dobele (Dobele) @ 2.29
13 96.7% Greek (Greece) + 3.3% Belarusian_West (WestBelarus) @ 2.3
14 97.3% Greek (Greece) + 2.7% Latvian (Latvia) @ 2.3
15 97.4% Greek (Greece) + 2.6% Estonian (Estonia) @ 2.3
16 97.1% Greek (Greece) + 2.9% Erzya_Moksha (Mordovia) @ 2.3
17 96.8% Greek (Greece) + 3.2% Ukrainians_north (NorthUkraine) @ 2.3
18 96.8% Greek (Greece) + 3.2% Belarusian_East (EastBelarus) @ 2.31
19 95.6% Greek (Greece) + 4.4% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) @ 2.31
20 73% Albanian (Albania) + 27% Turk (Trabzon) @ 2.31


Chios:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 45.07
2 Neolithic 24.34
3 Steppe 10.85
4 NorthEastEuropean 6.75
5 NearEast 5.22
6 Indian 3.98
7 NorthAfrican 2.71
8 EastAfrican 0.6
9 SouthEastAsian 0.33
10 Arctic 0.15

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek (Greece) 4.73
2 Greek (Athens) 5.79
3 Jew (Ashkenazi) 7.53
4 Italian (SouthItaly) 7.57
5 Greek (Azov) 8.01
6 Jew (Ashkenazim) 8.21
7 Jew (Bulgaria) 8.21
8 Sicilian (Sicily) 8.52
9 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 8.69
10 Jew (Sephardim) 8.86
11 Greek (Macedonia) 8.86
12 Jew (Italian) 8.89
13 Jew (Turkey) 9
14 Maltese (Malta) 9.07
15 Turk (Istanbul) 9.68
16 Turk (Turkey) 9.96
17 Jew (Ashkenazi) 10.03
18 Italian (Abruzzo) 10.37
19 Cypriot (Cyprus) 10.4
20 Greek (Peloponnes) 10.7

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 58.7% Armenian (Vanatur_Hrazdan) + 41.3% Italian (Bergamo) @ 2.68
2 74% Greek (Athens) + 26% Armenian (Gavar) @ 2.7
3 79.9% Greek (Athens) + 20.1% Jew (Iran) @ 2.84
4 56% Italian (Tuscany) + 44% Armenian (Armenia) @ 2.87
5 76% Greek (Athens) + 24% Assyrian (Turkey) @ 2.88
6 75.3% Armenian (Armenia) + 24.7% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 2.9
7 74.8% Greek (Athens) + 25.2% Jew (Azerbaijan) @ 2.93
8 74.5% Greek (Athens) + 25.5% Armenian (Dprabak) @ 2.94
9 50.7% Corsican (Corsica) + 49.3% Armenian (Armenia) @ 2.95
10 52% Armenian (Armenia) + 48% Italian (Bergamo) @ 2.96
11 75.6% Greek (Athens) + 24.4% Assyrian (Iraq) @ 2.98
12 75.7% Italian (SouthItaly) + 24.3% Turk (Trabzon) @ 3.02
13 61.3% Armenian (Armenia) + 38.7% Spanish (Andalucia) @ 3.04
14 73.8% Greek (Athens) + 26.2% Armenian (Chambarak) @ 3.12
15 73.2% Sicilian (Sicily) + 26.8% Turk (Trabzon) @ 3.13
16 68.6% Sicilian (Sicily) + 31.4% Georgian (Laz) @ 3.14
17 77.4% Greek (Athens) + 22.6% Georgian_Abkhazia (Abkhazia) @ 3.17
18 74.4% Armenian (Erzrum) + 25.6% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 3.2
19 71.6% Italian (SouthItaly) + 28.4% Georgian (Laz) @ 3.21
20 50.7% Jew (Georgia) + 49.3% Italian (Bergamo) @ 3.21


Andros:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 37.85
2 Neolithic 25.69
3 Steppe 14.66
4 NorthEastEuropean 9.99
5 NearEast 6
6 NorthAfrican 3.09
7 Indian 2.2
8 Oceanic 0.25
9 Amerindian 0.17
10 Arctic 0.06
11 SouthEastAsian 0.04

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian (SouthItaly) 3.45
2 Italian (Abruzzo) 3.5
3 Sicilian (Sicily) 4.32
4 Greek (Athens) 4.6
5 Greek (Macedonia) 4.6
6 Greek (Peloponnes) 4.64
7 Jew (Ashkenazi) 4.71
8 Greek (Greece) 4.72
9 Jew (Ashkenazim) 5.49
10 Albanian (Albania) 5.88
11 Greek (Thessaloniki) 5.98
12 Maltese (Malta) 6.22
13 Greek (Greece) 6.56
14 Jew (Ashkenazi) 7.34
15 Jew (Bulgaria) 7.78
16 Kosovar (Kosovo) 8.07
17 Gagauz (Gagauzia) 8.57
18 Jew (Italian) 8.71
19 Italian (Tuscany) 8.78
20 Jew (Belmonte) 9.28

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53.8% Spanish (Extremadura) + 46.2% Armenian (Armenia) @ 1.93
2 57.7% Spanish (Baleares) + 42.3% Jew (Georgia) @ 1.95
3 69.3% Italian (Tuscany) + 30.7% Armenian (Erzrum) @ 1.97
4 68.3% Corsican (Corsica) + 31.7% Armenian (Armenia) @ 2.04
5 89.1% Italian (Abruzzo) + 10.9% Georgian_Abkhazia (Abkhazia) @ 2.1
6 50.7% Jew (Georgia) + 49.3% Spanish (Aragon) @ 2.11
7 90.4% Italian (Abruzzo) + 9.6% Abkhazian (Gudauta) @ 2.12
8 67.5% Corsican (Corsica) + 32.5% Georgian (Georgia) @ 2.13
9 89.8% Italian (Abruzzo) + 10.2% Abkhazian_Lykhny (Lykhny) @ 2.14
10 71.9% Italian (Tuscany) + 28.1% Assyrian (Armenia) @ 2.15
11 69.8% Italian (Tuscany) + 30.2% Armenian (Chambarak) @ 2.17
12 71.9% Italian (Tuscany) + 28.1% Assyrian (Turkey) @ 2.19
13 90.1% Italian (Abruzzo) + 9.9% Georgian (Georgia) @ 2.21
14 90.7% Italian (Abruzzo) + 9.3% Georgians (Zugdidi) @ 2.25
15 89.7% Italian (Abruzzo) + 10.3% Adjar (Adjaria) @ 2.28
16 89.6% Italian (Abruzzo) + 10.4% Ossetian (North_Ossetia) @ 2.28
17 91.2% Italian (Abruzzo) + 8.8% Abhkasian (Abkhasia) @ 2.29
18 89% Italian (Abruzzo) + 11% Azerbaijani_Dagestan (Azerbaijan_Dagestan) @ 2.29
19 91.2% Italian (Abruzzo) + 8.8% Chechen (Chechnya) @ 2.3
20 65.9% Corsican (Corsica) + 34.1% Georgian_Abkhazia (Abkhazia) @ 2.31


Andros:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 42.74
2 Neolithic 25.69
3 Steppe 12.71
4 NorthEastEuropean 9.29
5 NearEast 6.05
6 NorthAfrican 3.33
7 Siberian 0.15
8 EastAfrican 0.04

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek (Athens) 2.82
2 Greek (Greece) 3.24
3 Italian (SouthItaly) 4.74
4 Jew (Ashkenazi) 5.11
5 Sicilian (Sicily) 5.56
6 Greek (Macedonia) 5.86
7 Jew (Ashkenazim) 6.06
8 Maltese (Malta) 6.62
9 Italian (Abruzzo) 6.73
10 Jew (Bulgaria) 7.28
11 Greek (Peloponnes) 7.6
12 Greek (Greece) 7.74
13 Jew (Italian) 8.06
14 Albanian (Albania) 8.12
15 Greek (Thessaloniki) 8.19
16 Jew (Ashkenazi) 8.59
17 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 8.76
18 Jew (Sephardim) 8.86
19 Jew (Turkey) 9.01
20 Greek (Azov) 10.18

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 83% Greek (Athens) + 17% Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) @ 2.22
2 64.3% Greek (Greece) + 35.7% Italian (SouthItaly) @ 2.28
3 89.8% Greek (Athens) + 10.2% Jew (Libya) @ 2.29
4 91.2% Greek (Athens) + 8.8% Samaritan (Israel) @ 2.3
5 90.2% Greek (Athens) + 9.8% Lebanese_Christian (Lebanon) @ 2.32
6 91.2% Greek (Athens) + 8.8% Arab_Israel (Iqrit) @ 2.33
7 89.1% Greek (Athens) + 10.9% Cypriot (Cyprus) @ 2.34
8 69.4% Greek (Greece) + 30.6% Sicilian (Sicily) @ 2.37
9 87.4% Greek (Athens) + 12.6% Jew (Algeria) @ 2.41
10 84.1% Greek (Athens) + 15.9% Jew (Italian) @ 2.42
11 93.6% Greek (Athens) + 6.4% Palestinian (Israel) @ 2.43
12 79.9% Italian (Abruzzo) + 20.1% Turk (Trabzon) @ 2.44
13 93% Greek (Athens) + 7% Druze (Mount_Carmel) @ 2.45
14 92% Greek (Athens) + 8% Lebanese_Muslim (Lebanon) @ 2.48
15 95.3% Greek (Athens) + 4.7% BedouinA (Negev) @ 2.51
16 93.7% Greek (Athens) + 6.3% Jordanian (Jordanian) @ 2.52
17 75% Greek (Greece) + 25% Maltese (Malta) @ 2.52
18 93.9% Greek (Athens) + 6.1% Syrian (Syria) @ 2.53
19 96.6% Greek (Athens) + 3.4% Saudi (Saudi_Arabia) @ 2.54
20 94% Greek (Athens) + 6% Lebanese (Lebanon) @ 2.56


Samos:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 42.66
2 Neolithic 24.59
3 Steppe 11.97
4 NorthEastEuropean 11.38
5 NearEast 4.66
6 NorthAfrican 3.3
7 Indian 1.14
8 Oceanic 0.29

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek (Greece) 2.94
2 Greek (Athens) 2.98
3 Greek (Macedonia) 4.76
4 Italian (SouthItaly) 5.6
5 Jew (Ashkenazi) 5.86
6 Sicilian (Sicily) 6.36
7 Jew (Ashkenazim) 6.59
8 Greek (Peloponnes) 6.7
9 Maltese (Malta) 6.93
10 Greek (Greece) 7.05
11 Italian (Abruzzo) 7.13
12 Albanian (Albania) 7.15
13 Greek (Thessaloniki) 7.18
14 Jew (Bulgaria) 8.47
15 Jew (Ashkenazi) 8.62
16 Jew (Italian) 9.42
17 Greek (Azov) 9.54
18 Jew (Sephardim) 9.83
19 Kosovar (Kosovo) 10.07
20 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 10.16

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 77% Albanian (Albania) + 23% Armenian (Armenia) @ 1.99
2 92.9% Greek (Greece) + 7.1% Spanish (Canarias) @ 2.09
3 77.2% Greek (Greece) + 22.8% Albanian (Albania) @ 2.14
4 78.6% Albanian (Albania) + 21.4% Turk (Trabzon) @ 2.16
5 77.8% Albanian (Albania) + 22.2% Jew (Georgia) @ 2.17
6 88% Greek (Greece) + 12% Romanian (Gorj) @ 2.18
7 92.6% Greek (Greece) + 7.4% German (Germany) @ 2.2
8 77.9% Greek (Greece) + 22.1% Greek (Thessaloniki) @ 2.21
9 78.9% Greek (Greece) + 21.1% Turk (Trabzon) @ 2.21
10 77.1% Greek (Thessaloniki) + 22.9% Armenian (Armenia) @ 2.25
11 92.5% Greek (Greece) + 7.5% French (EastFrance) @ 2.25
12 83.9% Greek (Greece) + 16.1% Kosovar (Kosovo) @ 2.25
13 78% Greek (Greece) + 22% Greek (Greece) @ 2.26
14 89.5% Greek (Greece) + 10.5% Romanian (Apuseni) @ 2.26
15 92.1% Greek (Greece) + 7.9% Portuguese (Portugal) @ 2.26
16 86.9% Greek (Greece) + 13.1% Jew (Belmonte) @ 2.27
17 91.6% Greek (Greece) + 8.4% Provencal (Provence) @ 2.27
18 93.7% Greek (Greece) + 6.3% Scottish (Borders) @ 2.27
19 93.2% Greek (Greece) + 6.8% Welsh (Wales) @ 2.28
20 93.7% Greek (Greece) + 6.3% English (England) @ 2.29


Ikaria:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 44.71
2 Neolithic 27.97
3 Steppe 11.37
4 NearEast 6.79
5 NorthEastEuropean 6.46
6 NorthAfrican 1.32
7 SouthEastAsian 1.23
8 Subsaharian 0.14

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek (Athens) 5.39
2 Greek (Greece) 5.47
3 Italian (SouthItaly) 7.26
4 Sicilian (Sicily) 7.74
5 Jew (Ashkenazi) 8.04
6 Jew (Ashkenazim) 8.62
7 Jew (Bulgaria) 8.82
8 Jew (Italian) 8.92
9 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 9.15
10 Maltese (Malta) 9.25
11 Greek (Macedonia) 9.49
12 Italian (Abruzzo) 9.63
13 Jew (Turkey) 9.94
14 Jew (Sephardim) 10.14
15 Greek (Peloponnes) 10.75
16 Greek (Greece) 10.91
17 Jew (Ashkenazi) 11
18 Greek (Thessaloniki) 11.18
19 Jew (Algeria) 11.2
20 Albanian (Albania) 11.21

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 55.1% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 44.9% Italian (Tuscany) @ 3.9
2 74.5% Greek (Athens) + 25.5% Cypriot (Cyprus) @ 3.94
3 63.9% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 36.1% Italian (Bergamo) @ 3.94
4 62.1% Armenian (Armenia) + 37.9% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 4.36
5 84.6% Greek (Athens) + 15.4% Arab_Israel (Iqrit) @ 4.61
6 88.7% Greek (Athens) + 11.3% Jew (Iraqi) @ 4.63
7 70.4% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 29.6% Spanish (Baleares) @ 4.64
8 79.3% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 20.7% French (SouthFrance) @ 4.64
9 85.5% Greek (Athens) + 14.5% Samaritan (Israel) @ 4.65
10 86.6% Greek (Athens) + 13.4% Druze (Mount_Carmel) @ 4.67
11 83.8% Greek (Athens) + 16.2% Lebanese_Christian (Lebanon) @ 4.69
12 79.2% Sicilian (Sicily) + 20.8% Turk (Trabzon) @ 4.72
13 93% Greek (Greece) + 7% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 4.79
14 76% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 24% Spanish (Aragon) @ 4.81
15 90.6% Greek (Athens) + 9.4% Turk (Trabzon) @ 4.82
16 50.7% Greek (Thessaloniki) + 49.3% Cypriot (Cyprus) @ 4.84
17 81.9% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 18.1% Basque (France) @ 4.86
18 90.3% Greek (Athens) + 9.7% Armenian (Armenia) @ 4.86
19 65.6% Armenian (Vardnis) + 34.4% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 4.88
20 91% Greek (Athens) + 9% Jew (Iran) @ 4.89


Crete:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 38.41
2 Neolithic 25.39
3 Steppe 14.13
4 NorthEastEuropean 11.92
5 NearEast 6.64
6 NorthAfrican 2.12
7 Amerindian 0.51
8 EastAfrican 0.42
9 Siberian 0.41
10 SouthEastAsian 0.04

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek (Macedonia) 3.14
2 Italian (Abruzzo) 3.37
3 Greek (Greece) 3.65
4 Greek (Peloponnes) 3.73
5 Greek (Athens) 4.38
6 Italian (SouthItaly) 4.46
7 Albanian (Albania) 4.82
8 Sicilian (Sicily) 4.84
9 Greek (Thessaloniki) 4.93
10 Jew (Ashkenazi) 5.11
11 Jew (Ashkenazim) 5.58
12 Greek (Greece) 5.98
13 Maltese (Malta) 6.69
14 Kosovar (Kosovo) 7.14
15 Gagauz (Gagauzia) 7.3
16 Jew (Ashkenazi) 7.6
17 Jew (Bulgaria) 8.29
18 Italian (Tuscany) 8.81
19 Jew (Italian) 9.22
20 Bulgarian (Bulgaria) 9.9

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 52.6% Greek (Macedonia) + 47.4% Italian (Abruzzo) @ 1.77
2 84.5% Greek (Greece) + 15.5% Cypriot (Cyprus) @ 2
3 89.9% Greek (Greece) + 10.1% Jew (Georgia) @ 2.04
4 61.2% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 38.8% English (Kent) @ 2.04
5 89.7% Greek (Greece) + 10.3% Armenian (Armenia) @ 2.05
6 55.9% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 44.1% German (Germany) @ 2.06
7 65.3% Greek (Greece) + 34.7% Greek (Greece) @ 2.13
8 90.7% Greek (Greece) + 9.3% Turk (Trabzon) @ 2.17
9 65.6% Greek (Macedonia) + 34.4% Sicilian (Sicily) @ 2.17
10 89.9% Greek (Greece) + 10.1% Jew (Iraqi) @ 2.18
11 89.7% Greek (Greece) + 10.3% Georgian (Kakheti) @ 2.21
12 88.3% Greek (Greece) + 11.7% Druze (Mount_Carmel) @ 2.21
13 63.6% Greek (Macedonia) + 36.4% Italian (SouthItaly) @ 2.23
14 85.9% Greek (Greece) + 14.1% Lebanese_Christian (Lebanon) @ 2.25
15 89.2% Greek (Greece) + 10.8% Georgian_Abkhazia (Abkhazia) @ 2.26
16 89.8% Greek (Greece) + 10.2% Georgian (Georgia) @ 2.27
17 94.2% Greek (Macedonia) + 5.8% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 2.3
18 88.9% Greek (Greece) + 11.1% Assyrian (Turkey) @ 2.3
19 93.2% Italian (Abruzzo) + 6.8% Georgian (Tbilisi) @ 2.31
20 87.3% Greek (Greece) + 12.7% Turk (Kayseri) @ 2.31


Crete:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 44.23
2 Neolithic 25.6
3 Steppe 12.19
4 NorthEastEuropean 10.77
5 NearEast 3.92
6 NorthAfrican 1.79
7 Indian 1.17
8 Australian 0.34

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek (Greece) 2.72
2 Greek (Athens) 2.92
3 Greek (Macedonia) 6.01
4 Italian (SouthItaly) 6.86
5 Jew (Ashkenazi) 7.46
6 Sicilian (Sicily) 7.6
7 Greek (Thessaloniki) 8.02
8 Greek (Peloponnes) 8.05
9 Albanian (Albania) 8.14
10 Greek (Greece) 8.23
11 Jew (Ashkenazim) 8.24
12 Italian (Abruzzo) 8.46
13 Maltese (Malta) 8.5
14 Jew (Bulgaria) 9.79
15 Greek (Azov) 9.85
16 Jew (Ashkenazi) 10.13
17 Jew (Italian) 10.59
18 Kosovar (Kosovo) 10.98
19 Turk (Turkey) 11.07
20 Jew (Sephardim) 11.16

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 75.7% Greek (Thessaloniki) + 24.3% Turk (Trabzon) @ 2.21
2 75.5% Albanian (Albania) + 24.5% Turk (Trabzon) @ 2.24
3 56.2% Greek (Greece) + 43.8% Greek (Athens) @ 2.39
4 69.2% Kosovar (Kosovo) + 30.8% Turk (Trabzon) @ 2.41
5 93.6% Greek (Greece) + 6.4% Italian (Bergamo) @ 2.44
6 93.8% Greek (Athens) + 6.2% Georgian (Megrelia) @ 2.46
7 96.9% Greek (Greece) + 3.1% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 2.46
8 87% Greek (Greece) + 13% Greek (Thessaloniki) @ 2.47
9 87.7% Greek (Greece) + 12.3% Albanian (Albania) @ 2.49
10 95.9% Greek (Greece) + 4.1% German (Germany) @ 2.5
11 96.3% Greek (Greece) + 3.7% Spanish (Cataluna) @ 2.5
12 93.7% Greek (Athens) + 6.3% Armenian (Armenia) @ 2.5
13 96.9% Greek (Greece) + 3.1% Spanish (Aragon) @ 2.52
14 97.5% Greek (Greece) + 2.5% French (SouthFrance) @ 2.52
15 91.3% Greek (Greece) + 8.7% Kosovar (Kosovo) @ 2.52
16 97.9% Greek (Greece) + 2.1% Basque (France) @ 2.53
17 93.5% Greek (Athens) + 6.5% Georgian (Laz) @ 2.54
18 96.6% Greek (Greece) + 3.4% Spanish (Andalucia) @ 2.54
19 96.7% Greek (Greece) + 3.3% French (France) @ 2.54
20 96.3% Greek (Greece) + 3.7% Spanish (Spain) @ 2.54


Crete:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 42.04
2 Neolithic 22.11
3 Steppe 13.61
4 NorthEastEuropean 9.1
5 NearEast 6.55
6 NorthAfrican 4.62
7 Indian 1.16
8 Oceanic 0.74
9 EastAfrican 0.07

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Jew (Ashkenazi) 4.34
2 Greek (Greece) 4.57
3 Greek (Athens) 5.21
4 Jew (Ashkenazim) 5.63
5 Greek (Macedonia) 5.65
6 Italian (SouthItaly) 5.68
7 Jew (Bulgaria) 6.46
8 Sicilian (Sicily) 6.81
9 Maltese (Malta) 7.17
10 Jew (Sephardim) 7.4
11 Italian (Abruzzo) 7.47
12 Jew (Ashkenazi) 7.61
13 Jew (Italian) 7.78
14 Jew (Turkey) 7.92
15 Greek (Azov) 7.96
16 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 8.17
17 Greek (Peloponnes) 8.19
18 Greek (Greece) 8.67
19 Albanian (Albania) 9.46
20 Greek (Thessaloniki) 9.61

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 76.4% Italian (Abruzzo) + 23.6% Georgian (Megrelia) @ 2.3
2 75.7% Italian (Abruzzo) + 24.3% Abkhazian (Gudauta) @ 2.41
3 81.5% Italian (SouthItaly) + 18.5% Adygei (Adygea) @ 2.5
4 86.6% Jew (Ashkenazi) + 13.4% Georgian (Megrelia) @ 2.51
5 75.7% Italian (Abruzzo) + 24.3% Georgians (Zugdidi) @ 2.52
6 78% Sicilian (Sicily) + 22% Adygei (Adygea) @ 2.52
7 78.9% Sicilian (Sicily) + 21.1% Chechen (Chechnya) @ 2.54
8 72.9% Italian (Abruzzo) + 27.1% Adjar (Adjaria) @ 2.54
9 74.4% Italian (Abruzzo) + 25.6% Georgian (Georgia) @ 2.55
10 82.4% Italian (SouthItaly) + 17.6% Chechen (Chechnya) @ 2.55
11 75.4% Italian (Abruzzo) + 24.6% Armenian (Armenia) @ 2.62
12 86.7% Jew (Ashkenazi) + 13.3% Adygei (Adygea) @ 2.63
13 80% Italian (SouthItaly) + 20% Kumyk (Dagestan) @ 2.64
14 82.2% Italian (SouthItaly) + 17.8% Abhkasian (Abkhasia) @ 2.65
15 85.6% Jew (Ashkenazi) + 14.4% Abkhazian_Lykhny (Lykhny) @ 2.68
16 87.5% Jew (Ashkenazi) + 12.5% Chechen (Chechnya) @ 2.7
17 80.3% Italian (SouthItaly) + 19.7% Abkhazian_Lykhny (Lykhny) @ 2.7
18 81.5% Italian (SouthItaly) + 18.5% Georgians (Zugdidi) @ 2.72
19 76.2% Sicilian (Sicily) + 23.8% Kumyk (Dagestan) @ 2.72
20 86.7% Jew (Ashkenazi) + 13.3% Abkhazian (Gudauta) @ 2.73


Crete:


# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 41.74
2 Neolithic 26.07
3 Steppe 12.4
4 NorthEastEuropean 7.74
5 NearEast 6.02
6 Indian 2.39
7 NorthAfrican 1.86
8 EastAfrican 0.86
9 Australian 0.27
10 Siberian 0.27
11 Arctic 0.24
12 Amerindian 0.14

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek (Athens) 3.25
2 Greek (Greece) 4.13
3 Italian (SouthItaly) 4.47
4 Jew (Ashkenazi) 5.32
5 Sicilian (Sicily) 5.4
6 Jew (Ashkenazim) 6.03
7 Greek (Macedonia) 6.46
8 Italian (Abruzzo) 6.79
9 Jew (Bulgaria) 6.96
10 Maltese (Malta) 7.01
11 Jew (Italian) 7.64
12 Greek (Peloponnes) 7.65
13 Greek (Greece) 8.07
14 Jew (Ashkenazi) 8.32
15 Jew (Turkey) 8.41
16 Jew (Sephardim) 8.46
17 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 8.58
18 Greek (Thessaloniki) 8.68
19 Albanian (Albania) 8.71
20 Jew (Algeria) 10.04

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 66.3% Italian (Tuscany) + 33.7% Armenian (Armenia) @ 2.12
2 67.3% Italian (Tuscany) + 32.7% Jew (Georgia) @ 2.23
3 87.2% Greek (Athens) + 12.8% Arab_Israel (Iqrit) @ 2.29
4 84.4% Greek (Athens) + 15.6% Jew (Syria) @ 2.38
5 62.2% Italian (Tuscany) + 37.8% Assyrian (Armenia) @ 2.4
6 87% Greek (Athens) + 13% Lebanese_Christian (Lebanon) @ 2.46
7 89.9% Greek (Athens) + 10.1% Iraki (Irak) @ 2.47
8 88.8% Greek (Athens) + 11.2% Samaritan (Israel) @ 2.48
9 87.6% Greek (Athens) + 12.4% Lebanese_Muslim (Lebanon) @ 2.5
10 89.8% Greek (Athens) + 10.2% Jew (Azerbaijan) @ 2.54
11 90.3% Greek (Athens) + 9.7% Jew (Kurdish) @ 2.54
12 89.5% Greek (Athens) + 10.5% Assyrian (Iran) @ 2.57
13 57.7% Italian (Bergamo) + 42.3% Jew (Georgia) @ 2.57
14 64.5% Italian (Tuscany) + 35.5% Georgian (Laz) @ 2.57
15 78.6% Greek (Athens) + 21.4% Jew (Italian) @ 2.59
16 90.1% Greek (Athens) + 9.9% Armenian (Gavar) @ 2.6
17 83.5% Greek (Athens) + 16.5% Jew (Algeria) @ 2.63
18 59.9% Corsican (Corsica) + 40.1% Armenian (Armenia) @ 2.63
19 90.6% Greek (Athens) + 9.4% Jordanian (Jordanian) @ 2.65
20 90.9% Greek (Athens) + 9.1% Syrian (Syria) @ 2.66



Palermo, Sicily:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 43.27
2 Neolithic 25.04
3 Steppe 11.52
4 NorthEastEuropean 8.31
5 NearEast 6.94
6 NorthAfrican 4.35
7 EastAfrican 0.32
8 Amerindian 0.24

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek (Greece) 3.82
2 Greek (Athens) 4.34
3 Jew (Ashkenazi) 4.83
4 Italian (SouthItaly) 5.11
5 Jew (Ashkenazim) 5.62
6 Sicilian (Sicily) 5.87
7 Jew (Bulgaria) 6.06
8 Maltese (Malta) 6.39
9 Jew (Italian) 6.74
10 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 7.02
11 Greek (Macedonia) 7.1
12 Jew (Sephardim) 7.49
13 Jew (Turkey) 7.59
14 Italian (Abruzzo) 7.61
15 Jew (Ashkenazi) 8.3
16 Greek (Peloponnes) 8.76
17 Jew (Algeria) 9.05
18 Greek (Greece) 9.11
19 Jew (Morocco) 9.3
20 Albanian (Albania) 9.58

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 74.1% Greek (Greece) + 25.9% Jew (Morocco) @ 2.15
2 81.6% Sicilian (Sicily) + 18.4% Turk (Trabzon) @ 2.17
3 74.2% Greek (Greece) + 25.8% Jew (Algeria) @ 2.3
4 84.2% Italian (SouthItaly) + 15.8% Turk (Trabzon) @ 2.42
5 68.4% Greek (Greece) + 31.6% Jew (Italian) @ 2.48
6 81.2% Greek (Athens) + 18.8% Samaritan (Israel) @ 2.54
7 54.7% Albanian (Albania) + 45.3% Cypriot (Cyprus) @ 2.59
8 79% Greek (Athens) + 21% Lebanese_Christian (Lebanon) @ 2.63
9 81.1% Greek (Athens) + 18.9% Arab_Israel (Iqrit) @ 2.67
10 85% Sicilian (Sicily) + 15% Georgian (Tbilisi) @ 2.69
11 54.3% Greek (Thessaloniki) + 45.7% Cypriot (Cyprus) @ 2.69
12 80.7% Sicilian (Sicily) + 19.3% Armenian (Armenia) @ 2.7
13 56.1% Greek (Greece) + 43.9% Cypriot (Cyprus) @ 2.83
14 83.7% Italian (SouthItaly) + 16.3% Armenian (Armenia) @ 2.85
15 85.5% Greek (Athens) + 14.5% Palestinian (Israel) @ 2.88
16 70.8% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 29.2% German (Germany) @ 2.88
17 69.7% Greek (Greece) + 30.3% Maltese (Malta) @ 2.91
18 95.6% Greek (Greece) + 4.4% Berber (Algeria) @ 2.92
19 82.5% Sicilian (Sicily) + 17.5% Georgian (Megrelia) @ 2.92
20 95.9% Greek (Greece) + 4.1% Saharawi (Morocco) @ 2.92


Palermo, Sicily:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 39.65
2 Neolithic 25.12
3 Steppe 12.41
4 NearEast 8.09
5 NorthEastEuropean 7.29
6 NorthAfrican 4.98
7 Arctic 0.77
8 EastAfrican 0.75
9 Australian 0.58
10 Subsaharian 0.18
11 Oceanic 0.16
12 SouthEastAsian 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Jew (Ashkenazi) 2.71
2 Italian (SouthItaly) 3.21
3 Jew (Ashkenazim) 3.65
4 Sicilian (Sicily) 3.94
5 Jew (Bulgaria) 4.04
6 Jew (Italian) 4.72
7 Maltese (Malta) 4.88
8 Italian (Abruzzo) 5.59
9 Greek (Athens) 5.61
10 Jew (Turkey) 5.67
11 Jew (Sephardim) 5.86
12 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 6.09
13 Greek (Greece) 6.35
14 Jew (Ashkenazi) 6.72
15 Jew (Algeria) 6.72
16 Greek (Macedonia) 7.13
17 Jew (Morocco) 7.76
18 Greek (Peloponnes) 7.92
19 Greek (Greece) 8.23
20 Albanian (Albania) 9.17

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 70% Italian (SouthItaly) + 30% Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) @ 2.08
2 55.1% Greek (Athens) + 44.9% Jew (Algeria) @ 2.08
3 84.9% Italian (SouthItaly) + 15.1% Lebanese_Christian (Lebanon) @ 2.14
4 86.1% Italian (SouthItaly) + 13.9% Arab_Israel (Iqrit) @ 2.15
5 86.4% Italian (SouthItaly) + 13.6% Samaritan (Israel) @ 2.16
6 84.8% Italian (SouthItaly) + 15.2% Cypriot (Cyprus) @ 2.23
7 59.7% Italian (SouthItaly) + 40.3% Jew (Bulgaria) @ 2.29
8 88.1% Sicilian (Sicily) + 11.9% Armenian (Armenia) @ 2.32
9 89.6% Italian (SouthItaly) + 10.4% Palestinian (Israel) @ 2.32
10 86.5% Italian (SouthItaly) + 13.5% Lebanese_Muslim (Lebanon) @ 2.35
11 89.6% Italian (SouthItaly) + 10.4% Druze (Mount_Carmel) @ 2.36
12 90% Italian (SouthItaly) + 10% Assyrian (Armenia) @ 2.38
13 55.5% Jew (Italian) + 44.5% Greek (Athens) @ 2.38
14 86.2% Sicilian (Sicily) + 13.8% Assyrian (Armenia) @ 2.41
15 89.5% Italian (SouthItaly) + 10.5% Syrian (Syria) @ 2.41
16 90.5% Italian (SouthItaly) + 9.5% Armenian (Vardnis) @ 2.43
17 89.5% Italian (SouthItaly) + 10.5% Lebanese (Lebanon) @ 2.44
18 84.8% Sicilian (Sicily) + 15.2% Armenian (Lebanon) @ 2.45
19 89.1% Italian (SouthItaly) + 10.9% Jordanian (Jordanian) @ 2.45
20 90.6% Italian (SouthItaly) + 9.4% Assyrian (Turkey) @ 2.48


Trapani, Sicily:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 35.38
2 Neolithic 30.36
3 Steppe 12.08
4 NorthEastEuropean 9.48
5 NearEast 6.86
6 NorthAfrican 5.51
7 EastAfrican 0.23
8 Ancestor 0.08
9 Australian 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian (Sicily) 4.06
2 Italian (Abruzzo) 4.64
3 Italian (SouthItaly) 4.84
4 Maltese (Malta) 5.44
5 Greek (Greece) 6.63
6 Jew (Belmonte) 6.75
7 Italian (Tuscany) 6.82
8 Albanian (Albania) 7.03
9 Greek (Peloponnes) 7.07
10 Jew (Ashkenazim) 7.08
11 Jew (Ashkenazi) 7.21
12 Greek (Thessaloniki) 7.35
13 Greek (Athens) 8.02
14 Kosovar (Kosovo) 8.52
15 Italian (NorthIitaly) 8.73
16 Jew (Italian) 8.82
17 Jew (Bulgaria) 8.89
18 Corsican (Corsica) 9.06
19 Jew (Ashkenazi) 9.22
20 Greek (Macedonia) 9.32

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 81.2% Jew (Ashkenazi) + 18.8% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 2.33
2 89.9% Sicilian (Sicily) + 10.1% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 2.34
3 87.5% Italian (SouthItaly) + 12.5% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 2.39
4 71.1% Italian (Tuscany) + 28.9% Jew (Libya) @ 2.58
5 52.2% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 47.8% Spanish (Andalucia) @ 2.64
6 52% Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) + 48% Italian (Bergamo) @ 2.66
7 92.9% Sicilian (Sicily) + 7.1% Basque (France) @ 2.7
8 87.1% Sicilian (Sicily) + 12.9% Spanish (Andalucia) @ 2.76
9 91.5% Sicilian (Sicily) + 8.5% French (SouthFrance) @ 2.76
10 58.4% Jew (Italian) + 41.6% Italian (Bergamo) @ 2.91
11 57.4% Italian (Tuscany) + 42.6% Jew (Italian) @ 2.93
12 75.6% Sicilian (Sicily) + 24.4% Corsican (Corsica) @ 2.97
13 80.9% Sicilian (Sicily) + 19.1% Italian (Bergamo) @ 2.97
14 54.8% Jew (Algeria) + 45.2% Italian (Bergamo) @ 3
15 68.4% Corsican (Corsica) + 31.6% Cypriot (Cyprus) @ 3.05
16 84.4% Italian (SouthItaly) + 15.6% Spanish (Andalucia) @ 3.09
17 87.4% Sicilian (Sicily) + 12.6% Spanish (Spain) @ 3.13
18 69.8% Italian (SouthItaly) + 30.2% Corsican (Corsica) @ 3.17
19 91.5% Italian (SouthItaly) + 8.5% Basque (France) @ 3.19
20 89.9% Italian (SouthItaly) + 10.1% French (SouthFrance) @ 3.2


Agrigento, Sicily:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 41.13
2 Neolithic 24.16
3 Steppe 11.27
4 NorthEastEuropean 8.11
5 NearEast 6.85
6 NorthAfrican 5.2
7 Subsaharian 1.12
8 Indian 0.86
9 EastAfrican 0.86
10 Oceanic 0.45

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Jew (Ashkenazi) 3.21
2 Jew (Ashkenazim) 3.91
3 Italian (SouthItaly) 3.96
4 Jew (Bulgaria) 4.6
5 Sicilian (Sicily) 4.72
6 Maltese (Malta) 4.81
7 Greek (Athens) 4.91
8 Greek (Greece) 4.96
9 Jew (Italian) 5.46
10 Jew (Sephardim) 5.74
11 Jew (Turkey) 6.06
12 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 6.29
13 Jew (Ashkenazi) 6.31
14 Italian (Abruzzo) 6.68
15 Greek (Macedonia) 6.72
16 Jew (Algeria) 7.45
17 Jew (Morocco) 7.92
18 Greek (Peloponnes) 7.96
19 Greek (Greece) 8.48
20 Albanian (Albania) 9.18

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 61.1% Greek (Greece) + 38.9% Jew (Algeria) @ 1.89
2 63% Greek (Athens) + 37% Jew (Morocco) @ 1.93
3 84% Sicilian (Sicily) + 16% Armenian (Armenia) @ 1.93
4 87.7% Sicilian (Sicily) + 12.3% Georgian (Tbilisi) @ 1.94
5 84.3% Sicilian (Sicily) + 15.7% Jew (Georgia) @ 1.95
6 83% Sicilian (Sicily) + 17% Georgian (Laz) @ 1.97
7 83.6% Maltese (Malta) + 16.4% Armenian (Armenia) @ 1.98
8 72.3% Greek (Athens) + 27.7% Jew (Libya) @ 1.99
9 69.9% Jew (Belmonte) + 30.1% Turk (Trabzon) @ 2
10 87.1% Italian (SouthItaly) + 12.9% Jew (Georgia) @ 2
11 62.8% Greek (Greece) + 37.2% Jew (Morocco) @ 2.01
12 84.6% Italian (SouthItaly) + 15.4% Armenian (Vardnis) @ 2.04
13 84.8% Sicilian (Sicily) + 15.2% Georgians (Zugdidi) @ 2.04
14 85.5% Sicilian (Sicily) + 14.5% Abhkasian (Abkhasia) @ 2.04
15 83.9% Italian (SouthItaly) + 16.1% Druze (Mount_Carmel) @ 2.05
16 85.6% Sicilian (Sicily) + 14.4% Turk (Trabzon) @ 2.07
17 82.9% Sicilian (Sicily) + 17.1% Adjar (Adjaria) @ 2.07
18 88.7% Greek (Greece) + 11.3% Tunisian (Tunis) @ 2.08
19 83.9% Sicilian (Sicily) + 16.1% Georgian (Georgia) @ 2.1
20 85% Sicilian (Sicily) + 15% Abkhazian (Gudauta) @ 2.11



Enna, Sicily:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 37.89
2 Neolithic 25.02
3 Steppe 14.68
4 NorthEastEuropean 7.63
5 NearEast 6.99
6 NorthAfrican 5.94
7 Indian 0.64
8 Siberian 0.53
9 EastAfrican 0.37
10 Australian 0.27
11 Arctic 0.04

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Jew (Ashkenazi) 3.46
2 Italian (SouthItaly) 3.5
3 Sicilian (Sicily) 4.47
4 Jew (Ashkenazim) 4.78
5 Italian (Abruzzo) 4.82
6 Maltese (Malta) 5.19
7 Jew (Bulgaria) 5.77
8 Greek (Athens) 6.36
9 Jew (Italian) 6.75
10 Jew (Ashkenazi) 6.92
11 Greek (Macedonia) 7.02
12 Jew (Turkey) 7.21
13 Jew (Sephardim) 7.23
14 Greek (Peloponnes) 7.47
15 Greek (Greece) 7.48
16 Greek (Greece) 7.75
17 Jew (Algeria) 7.97
18 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 8.39
19 Albanian (Albania) 8.48
20 Greek (Thessaloniki) 8.75

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 96% Jew (Ashkenazi) + 4% Basque (France) @ 2.95
2 95.6% Jew (Ashkenazi) + 4.4% French (SouthFrance) @ 3.03
3 94.7% Jew (Ashkenazi) + 5.3% Spanish (Aragon) @ 3.07
4 94.4% Italian (SouthItaly) + 5.6% Chechen (Chechnya) @ 3.11
5 51.5% Jew (Ashkenazi) + 48.5% Italian (SouthItaly) @ 3.14
6 94.4% Jew (Ashkenazi) + 5.6% Spanish (Andalucia) @ 3.15
7 94.7% Italian (SouthItaly) + 5.3% Balkar (Kabardino-Balkaria) @ 3.21
8 98% Italian (SouthItaly) + 2% Mozabite (Algeria) @ 3.22
9 95% Italian (SouthItaly) + 5% Adygei (Adygea) @ 3.23
10 94.4% Italian (SouthItaly) + 5.6% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) @ 3.23
11 92.8% Jew (Ashkenazi) + 7.2% Italian (Bergamo) @ 3.23
12 94.5% Italian (SouthItaly) + 5.5% Lak (Dagestan) @ 3.25
13 96.8% Jew (Ashkenazi) + 3.2% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 3.26
14 94.7% Italian (SouthItaly) + 5.3% Tabasaran (Dagestan) @ 3.27
15 95.8% Jew (Ashkenazi) + 4.2% French (France) @ 3.27
16 95.1% Jew (Ashkenazi) + 4.9% Spanish (Spain) @ 3.27
17 95.1% Italian (SouthItaly) + 4.9% Kumyk (Dagestan) @ 3.28
18 94.9% Italian (SouthItaly) + 5.1% Avar (Dagestan_Gergebil) @ 3.29
19 95% Italian (SouthItaly) + 5% Lezgin (Dagestan) @ 3.29
20 92.4% Jew (Ashkenazi) + 7.6% Corsican (Corsica) @ 3.3


Syracuse, Sicily:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 39.68
2 Neolithic 28.06
3 Steppe 11.69
4 NorthEastEuropean 11.03
5 NorthAfrican 4.11
6 NearEast 4.03
7 EastAfrican 0.9
8 Indian 0.21
9 SouthEastAsian 0.17
10 Oceanic 0.13

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek (Athens) 3.91
2 Italian (SouthItaly) 4.13
3 Sicilian (Sicily) 4.22
4 Maltese (Malta) 5.04
5 Albanian (Albania) 5.08
6 Greek (Thessaloniki) 5.2
7 Italian (Abruzzo) 5.27
8 Greek (Greece) 5.41
9 Greek (Peloponnes) 5.73
10 Greek (Greece) 6.13
11 Jew (Ashkenazi) 6.16
12 Greek (Macedonia) 6.34
13 Jew (Ashkenazim) 6.55
14 Kosovar (Kosovo) 7.91
15 Italian (Tuscany) 8.44
16 Jew (Ashkenazi) 8.68
17 Jew (Bulgaria) 8.78
18 Jew (Italian) 9.27
19 Gagauz (Gagauzia) 9.67
20 Jew (Belmonte) 9.93

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 70.9% Corsican (Corsica) + 29.1% Turk (Trabzon) @ 2.39
2 80.8% Greek (Greece) + 19.2% Spanish (Canarias) @ 2.62
3 80.4% Greek (Athens) + 19.6% Corsican (Corsica) @ 2.7
4 92.2% Greek (Athens) + 7.8% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 2.78
5 77.8% Greek (Athens) + 22.2% Jew (Belmonte) @ 2.81
6 81.1% Greek (Greece) + 18.9% Spanish (Andalucia) @ 2.81
7 60.8% Greek (Athens) + 39.2% Maltese (Malta) @ 2.84
8 68.1% Greek (Greece) + 31.9% Corsican (Corsica) @ 2.87
9 87.7% Greek (Athens) + 12.3% Portuguese (Portugal) @ 2.89
10 59.5% Greek (Greece) + 40.5% Italian (Tuscany) @ 2.93
11 61.9% Greek (Athens) + 38.1% Albanian (Albania) @ 2.98
12 79.9% Albanian (Albania) + 20.1% Cypriot (Cyprus) @ 3
13 71.8% Greek (Greece) + 28.2% Italian (Bergamo) @ 3.01
14 54.4% Greek (Athens) + 45.6% Sicilian (Sicily) @ 3.03
15 86% Greek (Greece) + 14% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 3.05
16 79.5% Greek (Thessaloniki) + 20.5% Cypriot (Cyprus) @ 3.09
17 60.5% Italian (SouthItaly) + 39.5% Greek (Thessaloniki) @ 3.1
18 63.8% Greek (Athens) + 36.2% Greek (Thessaloniki) @ 3.1
19 59.9% Italian (SouthItaly) + 40.1% Albanian (Albania) @ 3.15
20 93.9% Greek (Athens) + 6.1% French (SouthFrance) @ 3.16


Messina:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 41.71
2 Neolithic 24.99
3 Steppe 12.72
4 NorthAfrican 6.88
5 NorthEastEuropean 6.66
6 NearEast 5.3
7 EastAfrican 1.68
8 Oceanic 0.05

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Jew (Ashkenazi) 4.9
2 Italian (SouthItaly) 5.12
3 Maltese (Malta) 5.49
4 Jew (Bulgaria) 5.97
5 Sicilian (Sicily) 6.01
6 Greek (Athens) 6.02
7 Jew (Ashkenazim) 6.11
8 Greek (Greece) 6.5
9 Jew (Italian) 6.73
10 Jew (Turkey) 7.17
11 Jew (Sephardim) 7.35
12 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 7.38
13 Italian (Abruzzo) 7.86
14 Jew (Morocco) 8.06
15 Jew (Ashkenazi) 8.24
16 Jew (Algeria) 8.29
17 Greek (Macedonia) 8.53
18 Greek (Peloponnes) 9.71
19 Greek (Greece) 9.79
20 Albanian (Albania) 10.19

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 84.9% Maltese (Malta) + 15.1% Turk (Trabzon) @ 3.23
2 84.8% Maltese (Malta) + 15.2% Georgian (Megrelia) @ 3.28
3 84.5% Maltese (Malta) + 15.5% Abkhazian (Gudauta) @ 3.37
4 82.4% Maltese (Malta) + 17.6% Georgian_Abkhazia (Abkhazia) @ 3.4
5 83.8% Maltese (Malta) + 16.2% Georgian (Kakheti) @ 3.43
6 59.6% Greek (Athens) + 40.4% Jew (Morocco) @ 3.46
7 84.1% Maltese (Malta) + 15.9% Armenian (Armenia) @ 3.46
8 84.8% Maltese (Malta) + 15.2% Georgians (Zugdidi) @ 3.49
9 83.9% Maltese (Malta) + 16.1% Georgian (Georgia) @ 3.5
10 85.6% Maltese (Malta) + 14.4% Abhkasian (Abkhasia) @ 3.54
11 87.1% Italian (SouthItaly) + 12.9% Turk (Trabzon) @ 3.55
12 84.4% Maltese (Malta) + 15.6% Armenian (Armenia) @ 3.55
13 84.4% Maltese (Malta) + 15.6% Abkhazian_Lykhny (Lykhny) @ 3.61
14 89.3% Italian (SouthItaly) + 10.7% Georgian (Tbilisi) @ 3.63
15 85.7% Maltese (Malta) + 14.3% Adygei (Adygea) @ 3.66
16 83.6% Maltese (Malta) + 16.4% Adjar (Adjaria) @ 3.69
17 68.7% Jew (Belmonte) + 31.3% Turk (Trabzon) @ 3.7
18 50.9% Turk (Trabzon) + 49.1% Spanish (Canarias) @ 3.7
19 86.4% Sicilian (Sicily) + 13.6% Georgian (Tbilisi) @ 3.71
20 70.9% Greek (Athens) + 29.1% Jew (Libya) @ 3.75



One more K36. 4 grandparents from Messinia. It is a good example showing the connection between mainland Greece and Albania. This individual shows moderate connections to the Central/Eastern Mediterranean Continuum populations, and SE Europe as far north as Romania and the former Yugoslav republics. Cyprus is still a solid match in the 60s for this person, but their similarity scores crash as soon as you hit the Levant. This individual has 0 Arabian and only 4.31 NearEast on the K36 calculator.


For most Sicilians, Calabrians, and Aegean islanders, similarity score to the Levant is usually between 55-65. That Peloponnesian is as close to Poles as to Lebanese.

Greekscholar
07-26-2019, 03:10 PM
Cool samples. You can really see the diversity in Crete and Sicily. That North African percent seems to be the best way to differentiate Sicilians and Greek islanders. Only one of the Crete samples came close. I think your Ikarian and one of the Chios samples probably plot closer to the Dodecanese, while Patmos probably lands closer to NE Aegean. Patmos is an interesting island because of the monks. I would not be surprised if it is unique among its neighbors.

The Messinian K36 shows a connection to the larger Italian/Greek Mediterranean areas and the Balkans. But a very weak connection to the Levant, which we have seen in Greek islanders. But yes, as close to Poland to Lebanon, closer to Berlin than Baghdad.

Sikeliot
07-26-2019, 10:01 PM
Cool samples. You can really see the diversity in Crete and Sicily. That North African percent seems to be the best way to differentiate Sicilians and Greek islanders. Only one of the Crete samples came close. I think your Ikarian and one of the Chios samples probably plot closer to the Dodecanese, while Patmos probably lands closer to NE Aegean. Patmos is an interesting island because of the monks. I would not be surprised if it is unique among its neighbors.

The Messinian K36 shows a connection to the larger Italian/Greek Mediterranean areas and the Balkans. But a very weak connection to the Levant, which we have seen in Greek islanders. But yes, as close to Poland to Lebanon, closer to Berlin than Baghdad.

I agree with everything you said. What is funny is there was one result I have from the Cyclades of all places who has higher North African than anything I've seen in the Aegean, which made them come out like a Sicilian and on every PCA plot they end up in the Sicilian cluster. Not sure how they scored North African.

And the low connection to the Levant in mainland Greece is why I think even if you remove all their Slavic input, they will still be differentiable from Sicilians, Calabrians, and Aegean islanders.

The Peloponnese also doesn't seem to be any more Levant-shifted than northern Greece... just less Slavicized.

Here are some Calabrians and Dodecanese... they are more similar to one another... some of them get Lebanese in their top 20, which is not something I have seen for any of the Sicilians, Cretans, or other Aegeans.

Reggio Calabria:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 39.68
2 Neolithic 25.59
3 Steppe 11.02
4 NearEast 9.67
5 NorthEastEuropean 5.76
6 NorthAfrican 4.62
7 EastAfrican 1.99
8 Australian 1.16
9 Indian 0.27
10 Subsaharian 0.24

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Jew (Italian) 3.03
2 Jew (Bulgaria) 3.12
3 Jew (Turkey) 4.4
4 Jew (Ashkenazi) 4.41
5 Jew (Ashkenazim) 4.5
6 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 4.58
7 Italian (SouthItaly) 5.03
8 Jew (Sephardim) 5.17
9 Sicilian (Sicily) 5.26
10 Jew (Algeria) 5.35
11 Maltese (Malta) 6.09
12 Jew (Morocco) 7.05
13 Italian (Abruzzo) 7.21
14 Greek (Athens) 7.44
15 Jew (Ashkenazi) 7.61
16 Greek (Greece) 7.82
17 Greek (Macedonia) 9.17
18 Greek (Peloponnes) 9.63
19 Jew (Syria) 9.7
20 Greek (Greece) 10.13

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 77.7% Jew (Italian) + 22.3% Greek (Athens) @ 2.23
2 76.9% Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) + 23.1% Italian (Tuscany) @ 2.35
3 71.6% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 28.4% Spanish (Castilla_la_Mancha) @ 2.45
4 71.3% Jew (Italian) + 28.7% Italian (SouthItaly) @ 2.46
5 80.9% Jew (Italian) + 19.1% Greek (Greece) @ 2.47
6 53.3% Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) + 46.7% Italian (SouthItaly) @ 2.52
7 50.1% Italian (Tuscany) + 49.9% Arab_Israel (Iqrit) @ 2.52
8 50.5% Italian (Tuscany) + 49.5% Samaritan (Israel) @ 2.54
9 74% Sicilian (Sicily) + 26% Arab_Israel (Iqrit) @ 2.55
10 54.8% Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) + 45.2% Sicilian (Sicily) @ 2.56
11 83.2% Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) + 16.8% Italian (Bergamo) @ 2.56
12 74.4% Jew (Italian) + 25.6% Sicilian (Sicily) @ 2.58
13 85.4% Jew (Italian) + 14.6% Greek (Macedonia) @ 2.63
14 70.4% Jew (Italian) + 29.6% Jew (Ashkenazi) @ 2.64
15 60% Jew (Algeria) + 40% Greek (Athens) @ 2.65
16 74.5% Sicilian (Sicily) + 25.5% Samaritan (Israel) @ 2.65
17 75.7% Italian (SouthItaly) + 24.3% Samaritan (Israel) @ 2.67
18 92.5% Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) + 7.5% Basque (France) @ 2.68
19 95.7% Jew (Bulgaria) + 4.3% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 2.68
20 91.3% Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) + 8.7% French (SouthFrance) @ 2.69



Reggio Calabria:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 45.78
2 Neolithic 24.54
3 NearEast 11.39
4 NorthEastEuropean 8.29
5 Steppe 7.05
6 NorthAfrican 2.12
7 EastAfrican 0.83

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 6.76
2 Greek (Greece) 7.46
3 Jew (Italian) 7.81
4 Jew (Bulgaria) 7.93
5 Cypriot (Cyprus) 8.23
6 Jew (Ashkenazim) 8.57
7 Jew (Turkey) 8.71
8 Jew (Sephardim) 8.77
9 Jew (Ashkenazi) 8.95
10 Greek (Athens) 9.15
11 Italian (SouthItaly) 9.73
12 Sicilian (Sicily) 9.87
13 Jew (Syria) 10.13
14 Jew (Algeria) 10.28
15 Maltese (Malta) 10.53
16 Lebanese_Christian (Lebanon) 10.58
17 Jew (Morocco) 10.81
18 Greek (Macedonia) 10.96
19 Greek (Azov) 11.11
20 Jew (Ashkenazi) 11.39

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 68.6% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 31.4% Kosovar (Kosovo) @ 3.89
2 63.8% Druze (Mount_Carmel) + 36.2% Italian (Bergamo) @ 3.9
3 63.7% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 36.3% Greek (Greece) @ 4.07
4 81.1% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 18.9% German (Germany) @ 4.07
5 80.3% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 19.7% Spanish (Spain) @ 4.08
6 75.3% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 24.7% Montenegrian (Montenegro) @ 4.08
7 73.5% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 26.5% Corsican (Corsica) @ 4.08
8 76.2% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 23.8% Serbian (Serbia) @ 4.08
9 65% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 35% Albanian (Albania) @ 4.12
10 80.4% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 19.6% French (EastFrance) @ 4.14
11 77.9% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 22.1% Serbian (Bosnia-Herzegovina) @ 4.15
12 60.8% Druze (Mount_Carmel) + 39.2% Corsican (Corsica) @ 4.17
13 73.7% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 26.3% Macedonian (Macedonia) @ 4.2
14 76.1% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 23.9% Italian (Bergamo) @ 4.2
15 72.9% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 27.1% Bulgarian (Bulgaria) @ 4.25
16 78.4% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 21.6% Bosnian (Bosnia-Herzegovina) @ 4.26
17 82.8% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 17.2% Sorb (Lusatia) @ 4.27
18 80.6% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 19.4% Hungarian (Budapest) @ 4.27
19 78.5% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 21.5% Croat (Bosnia-Herzegovina) @ 4.28
20 69.4% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 30.6% Gagauz (Gagauzia) @ 4.28


Cosenza, Calabria:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 43.36
2 Neolithic 24.62
3 Steppe 12.21
4 NorthEastEuropean 7.52
5 NearEast 7.51
6 NorthAfrican 3.24
7 Indian 1.2
8 EastAfrican 0.22
9 Amerindian 0.11

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek (Greece) 3.92
2 Greek (Athens) 4.61
3 Jew (Ashkenazi) 5.09
4 Italian (SouthItaly) 5.5
5 Jew (Ashkenazim) 5.92
6 Jew (Bulgaria) 6.07
7 Sicilian (Sicily) 6.41
8 Jew (Italian) 6.84
9 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 7
10 Greek (Macedonia) 7.15
11 Jew (Sephardim) 7.31
12 Jew (Turkey) 7.41
13 Maltese (Malta) 7.41
14 Italian (Abruzzo) 7.93
15 Jew (Ashkenazi) 8.52
16 Greek (Azov) 8.98
17 Greek (Peloponnes) 9.04
18 Jew (Algeria) 9.13
19 Greek (Greece) 9.53
20 Jew (Morocco) 9.81

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 77.4% Greek (Athens) + 22.6% Arab_Israel (Iqrit) @ 2.11
2 75.3% Greek (Athens) + 24.7% Lebanese_Christian (Lebanon) @ 2.19
3 77.5% Sicilian (Sicily) + 22.5% Armenian (Armenia) @ 2.22
4 78.6% Greek (Athens) + 21.4% Samaritan (Israel) @ 2.3
5 72% Greek (Athens) + 28% Jew (Syria) @ 2.31
6 82.6% Italian (SouthItaly) + 17.4% Turk (Trabzon) @ 2.32
7 80.8% Italian (SouthItaly) + 19.2% Armenian (Armenia) @ 2.33
8 77.8% Sicilian (Sicily) + 22.2% Armenian (Armenia) @ 2.33
9 79.8% Sicilian (Sicily) + 20.2% Turk (Trabzon) @ 2.36
10 74.4% Greek (Greece) + 25.6% Jew (Algeria) @ 2.5
11 69.8% Greek (Greece) + 30.2% Jew (Turkey) @ 2.51
12 76.6% Sicilian (Sicily) + 23.4% Georgian (Laz) @ 2.52
13 68.6% Greek (Greece) + 31.4% Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) @ 2.54
14 77.2% Greek (Athens) + 22.8% Lebanese_Muslim (Lebanon) @ 2.55
15 81.8% Italian (SouthItaly) + 18.2% Jew (Georgia) @ 2.61
16 80% Italian (SouthItaly) + 20% Georgian (Laz) @ 2.63
17 68.7% Greek (Greece) + 31.3% Jew (Italian) @ 2.66
18 53.6% Greek (Greece) + 46.4% Cypriot (Cyprus) @ 2.7
19 83.4% Greek (Athens) + 16.6% Palestinian (Israel) @ 2.71
20 72.1% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 27.9% German (Germany) @ 2.76


Vibo Valentia, Calabria:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 40.39
2 Neolithic 24.32
3 Steppe 11.26
4 NearEast 8.98
5 NorthEastEuropean 6.15
6 NorthAfrican 3.74
7 Indian 3.62
8 EastAfrican 1.48
9 Siberian 0.04
10 Australian 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Jew (Bulgaria) 3.95
2 Jew (Ashkenazi) 4.61
3 Jew (Italian) 4.62
4 Jew (Turkey) 4.69
5 Jew (Ashkenazim) 4.72
6 Jew (Sephardim) 5.09
7 Italian (SouthItaly) 5.22
8 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 5.42
9 Sicilian (Sicily) 5.94
10 Jew (Algeria) 6.68
11 Greek (Athens) 6.93
12 Greek (Greece) 6.93
13 Maltese (Malta) 6.94
14 Jew (Ashkenazi) 7.48
15 Italian (Abruzzo) 7.67
16 Jew (Morocco) 8.14
17 Greek (Macedonia) 8.4
18 Jew (Syria) 8.7
19 Greek (Peloponnes) 9.14
20 Greek (Greece) 10.01

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 54.7% Lebanese_Christian (Lebanon) + 45.3% Italian (Tuscany) @ 2.12
2 73.9% Sicilian (Sicily) + 26.1% Jew (Azerbaijan) @ 2.13
3 59.4% Jew (Iraqi) + 40.6% Spanish (Castilla_la_Mancha) @ 2.16
4 74.7% Sicilian (Sicily) + 25.3% Assyrian (Iraq) @ 2.21
5 63.2% Lebanese_Christian (Lebanon) + 36.8% Italian (Bergamo) @ 2.21
6 60.8% Jew (Iraqi) + 39.2% Spanish (Aragon) @ 2.25
7 77.8% Italian (SouthItaly) + 22.2% Jew (Kurdish) @ 2.26
8 74.4% Sicilian (Sicily) + 25.6% Armenian (Gavar) @ 2.28
9 72.9% Sicilian (Sicily) + 27.1% Assyrian (Iran) @ 2.3
10 73.2% Druze (Mount_Carmel) + 26.8% Basque (France) @ 2.31
11 77% Italian (SouthItaly) + 23% Jew (Azerbaijan) @ 2.32
12 57.2% Jew (Iraqi) + 42.8% Spanish (Andalucia) @ 2.33
13 74.8% Sicilian (Sicily) + 25.2% Iraki (Irak) @ 2.35
14 71.2% Italian (SouthItaly) + 28.8% Lebanese_Muslim (Lebanon) @ 2.36
15 77.9% Italian (SouthItaly) + 22.1% Assyrian (Armavir) @ 2.38
16 60.9% Arab_Israel (Iqrit) + 39.1% Italian (Bergamo) @ 2.38
17 76% Italian (SouthItaly) + 24% Assyrian (Iran) @ 2.4
18 77.8% Italian (SouthItaly) + 22.2% Iraki (Irak) @ 2.45
19 77.7% Italian (SouthItaly) + 22.3% Armenian (Gavar) @ 2.55
20 76.2% Sicilian (Sicily) + 23.8% Jew (Uzbekistan) @ 2.59


Crotone, Calabria:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 43.37
2 Neolithic 25.2
3 NearEast 10.93
4 Steppe 10.12
5 NorthEastEuropean 5.71
6 NorthAfrican 3.92
7 EastAfrican 0.75

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 4.33
2 Jew (Italian) 5.02
3 Jew (Bulgaria) 5.16
4 Jew (Turkey) 5.79
5 Jew (Sephardim) 6.25
6 Jew (Ashkenazi) 6.59
7 Jew (Ashkenazim) 6.66
8 Jew (Algeria) 7.17
9 Greek (Greece) 7.33
10 Italian (SouthItaly) 7.36
11 Sicilian (Sicily) 7.71
12 Greek (Athens) 8.08
13 Jew (Morocco) 8.17
14 Maltese (Malta) 8.54
15 Jew (Syria) 8.77
16 Cypriot (Cyprus) 9.06
17 Jew (Ashkenazi) 9.68
18 Italian (Abruzzo) 9.72
19 Greek (Macedonia) 10.27
20 Lebanese_Christian (Lebanon) 10.41

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 79.9% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 20.1% Spanish (Aragon) @ 2.55
2 82.8% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 17.2% French (SouthFrance) @ 2.63
3 77.6% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 22.4% Spanish (Andalucia) @ 2.71
4 51.9% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 48.1% Italian (Abruzzo) @ 2.76
5 68.1% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 31.9% Corsican (Corsica) @ 2.81
6 54.5% Sicilian (Sicily) + 45.5% Cypriot (Cyprus) @ 2.84
7 76.3% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 23.7% Spanish (Spain) @ 2.85
8 85% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 15% Basque (France) @ 2.85
9 74.6% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 25.4% Portuguese (Portugal) @ 3.03
10 69.4% Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) + 30.6% Greek (Greece) @ 3.2
11 71.5% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 28.5% Italian (Bergamo) @ 3.25
12 74.3% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 25.7% Provencal (Provence) @ 3.27
13 79.1% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 20.9% French (France) @ 3.34
14 62.3% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 37.7% Jew (Belmonte) @ 3.39
15 76.5% Druze (Mount_Carmel) + 23.5% Basque (France) @ 3.43
16 60.9% Greek (Athens) + 39.1% Samaritan (Israel) @ 3.44
17 70% Jew (Italian) + 30% Cypriot (Cyprus) @ 3.54
18 60% Jew (Ashkenazi) + 40% Cypriot (Cyprus) @ 3.55
19 87.3% Jew (Italian) + 12.7% Turk (Trabzon) @ 3.6
20 73.7% Druze (Mount_Carmel) + 26.3% French (SouthFrance) @ 3.7


Catanzaro, Calabria:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 44.35
2 Neolithic 26.04
3 Steppe 11.72
4 NearEast 7.82
5 NorthEastEuropean 6.42
6 NorthAfrican 3
7 EastAfrican 0.6
8 Oceanic 0.04

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek (Greece) 4.98
2 Greek (Athens) 5.51
3 Jew (Ashkenazi) 6.43
4 Italian (SouthItaly) 6.44
5 Jew (Bulgaria) 6.73
6 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 7.01
7 Jew (Italian) 7.06
8 Jew (Ashkenazim) 7.11
9 Sicilian (Sicily) 7.11
10 Jew (Turkey) 7.89
11 Jew (Sephardim) 8.1
12 Maltese (Malta) 8.17
13 Greek (Macedonia) 8.8
14 Italian (Abruzzo) 8.99
15 Jew (Algeria) 9.37
16 Jew (Ashkenazi) 9.79
17 Jew (Morocco) 9.99
18 Cypriot (Cyprus) 10.21
19 Greek (Peloponnes) 10.41
20 Greek (Azov) 10.43

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 67% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 33% Italian (Bergamo) @ 2.85
2 67.8% Greek (Athens) + 32.2% Cypriot (Cyprus) @ 2.98
3 78.5% Sicilian (Sicily) + 21.5% Turk (Trabzon) @ 3.2
4 77.6% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 22.4% Spanish (Aragon) @ 3.29
5 75.8% Greek (Athens) + 24.2% Arab_Israel (Iqrit) @ 3.34
6 76.6% Greek (Athens) + 23.4% Samaritan (Israel) @ 3.36
7 76.2% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 23.8% French (France) @ 3.45
8 73.9% Greek (Athens) + 26.1% Lebanese_Christian (Lebanon) @ 3.47
9 81% Italian (SouthItaly) + 19% Turk (Trabzon) @ 3.48
10 53% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 47% Greek (Thessaloniki) @ 3.48
11 73.6% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 26.4% Spanish (Spain) @ 3.5
12 52.9% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 47.1% Albanian (Albania) @ 3.5
13 60.8% Sicilian (Sicily) + 39.2% Cypriot (Cyprus) @ 3.51
14 51.4% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 48.6% Greek (Greece) @ 3.54
15 63.5% Greek (Greece) + 36.5% Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) @ 3.56
16 77.3% Sicilian (Sicily) + 22.7% Armenian (Armenia) @ 3.63
17 64.6% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 35.4% Corsican (Corsica) @ 3.63
18 74.8% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 25.2% German (Germany) @ 3.64
19 58.8% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 41.2% Kosovar (Kosovo) @ 3.64
20 83.4% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 16.6% Basque (France) @ 3.68



Symi, Dodecanese:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 45.37
2 Neolithic 23.69
3 NearEast 9.71
4 Steppe 8.9
5 NorthEastEuropean 7.75
6 NorthAfrican 2.57
7 EastAfrican 0.7
8 Indian 0.62
9 SouthEastAsian 0.4
10 Oceanic 0.15
11 Australian 0.14

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek (Greece) 5.54
2 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 6.07
3 Jew (Bulgaria) 6.73
4 Jew (Italian) 7.02
5 Jew (Ashkenazi) 7.28
6 Jew (Ashkenazim) 7.33
7 Greek (Athens) 7.39
8 Jew (Sephardim) 7.55
9 Jew (Turkey) 7.66
10 Cypriot (Cyprus) 8.07
11 Italian (SouthItaly) 8.26
12 Sicilian (Sicily) 8.71
13 Greek (Azov) 9.15
14 Jew (Syria) 9.23
15 Maltese (Malta) 9.36
16 Greek (Macedonia) 9.4
17 Jew (Algeria) 9.53
18 Jew (Morocco) 10.01
19 Jew (Ashkenazi) 10.06
20 Lebanese_Christian (Lebanon) 10.22

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 66.1% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 33.9% Kosovar (Kosovo) @ 1.9
2 60.3% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 39.7% Greek (Greece) @ 1.96
3 79.3% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 20.7% German (Germany) @ 1.97
4 61.7% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 38.3% Albanian (Albania) @ 2.08
5 73.1% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 26.9% Montenegrian (Montenegro) @ 2.14
6 71.1% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 28.9% Macedonian (Macedonia) @ 2.16
7 78.6% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 21.4% French (EastFrance) @ 2.16
8 74.1% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 25.9% Serbian (Serbia) @ 2.17
9 55% Druze (Mount_Carmel) + 45% Italian (Tuscany) @ 2.21
10 70.2% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 29.8% Bulgarian (Bulgaria) @ 2.24
11 72% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 28% Romanian (Gorj) @ 2.31
12 82% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 18% English (Kent) @ 2.32
13 80.8% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 19.2% French (France) @ 2.34
14 62.3% Druze (Mount_Carmel) + 37.7% Italian (Bergamo) @ 2.37
15 76% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 24% Serbian (Bosnia-Herzegovina) @ 2.38
16 80% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 20% Welsh (Wales) @ 2.4
17 76.4% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 23.6% Bosnian (Bosnia-Herzegovina) @ 2.4
18 80.1% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 19.9% German_Lipsian ((Saxony)) @ 2.4
19 81% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 19% Scottish (Dumfries_Galloway) @ 2.42
20 73.8% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 26.2% Romanian (Apuseni) @ 2.43


Kastellorizo, Dodecanese:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 44.58
2 Neolithic 24.02
3 Steppe 12.17
4 NearEast 8.29
5 NorthEastEuropean 4.54
6 NorthAfrican 3.14
7 Indian 1.86
8 SouthEastAsian 0.68
9 Australian 0.43
10 Arctic 0.22
11 EastAfrican 0.06

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek (Greece) 6.36
2 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 6.63
3 Jew (Bulgaria) 6.79
4 Jew (Ashkenazi) 7.06
5 Greek (Athens) 7.25
6 Jew (Turkey) 7.28
7 Jew (Italian) 7.29
8 Jew (Sephardim) 7.29
9 Italian (SouthItaly) 7.77
10 Jew (Ashkenazim) 7.9
11 Sicilian (Sicily) 8.68
12 Jew (Syria) 8.91
13 Cypriot (Cyprus) 8.91
14 Greek (Azov) 8.98
15 Jew (Algeria) 8.98
16 Maltese (Malta) 9.55
17 Jew (Morocco) 9.72
18 Greek (Macedonia) 9.9
19 Jew (Ashkenazi) 10.05
20 Italian (Abruzzo) 10.44

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 69.6% Sicilian (Sicily) + 30.4% Armenian (Armenia) @ 3.02
2 72.3% Italian (SouthItaly) + 27.7% Armenian (Armenia) @ 3.08
3 60.2% Sicilian (Sicily) + 39.8% Armenian (Lebanon) @ 3.14
4 72.8% Italian (SouthItaly) + 27.2% Armenian (Armenia) @ 3.23
5 70.1% Sicilian (Sicily) + 29.9% Armenian (Armenia) @ 3.24
6 68.3% Sicilian (Sicily) + 31.7% Georgian (Laz) @ 3.4
7 61% Greek (Athens) + 39% Lebanese_Christian (Lebanon) @ 3.42
8 54.1% Italian (SouthItaly) + 45.9% Cypriot (Cyprus) @ 3.42
9 71.3% Italian (SouthItaly) + 28.7% Georgian (Laz) @ 3.51
10 73.9% Italian (SouthItaly) + 26.1% Jew (Georgia) @ 3.52
11 68% Italian (SouthItaly) + 32% Assyrian (Armenia) @ 3.53
12 83.8% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 16.2% French (SouthFrance) @ 3.55
13 80.3% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 19.7% Spanish (Castilla_la_Mancha) @ 3.56
14 65.1% Sicilian (Sicily) + 34.9% Assyrian (Armenia) @ 3.62
15 85.8% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 14.2% Basque (France) @ 3.62
16 81.1% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 18.9% Spanish (Aragon) @ 3.65
17 56.5% Greek (Athens) + 43.5% Cypriot (Cyprus) @ 3.65
18 67.9% Sicilian (Sicily) + 32.1% Georgian_Abkhazia (Abkhazia) @ 3.66
19 76% Italian (SouthItaly) + 24% Turk (Trabzon) @ 3.66
20 71.4% Sicilian (Sicily) + 28.6% Jew (Georgia) @ 3.71



Tilos, Dodecanese:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 44.59
2 Neolithic 26.02
3 Steppe 12.08
4 NorthEastEuropean 9.57
5 NearEast 6.11
6 Arctic 0.8
7 Oceanic 0.52
8 Australian 0.26
9 NorthAfrican 0.05

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek (Greece) 2.89
2 Greek (Athens) 3.61
3 Greek (Macedonia) 6.74
4 Italian (SouthItaly) 7.12
5 Jew (Ashkenazi) 7.61
6 Sicilian (Sicily) 7.74
7 Jew (Ashkenazim) 8.24
8 Italian (Abruzzo) 8.74
9 Greek (Peloponnes) 8.81
10 Greek (Greece) 9.06
11 Greek (Thessaloniki) 9.24
12 Maltese (Malta) 9.31
13 Albanian (Albania) 9.34
14 Jew (Bulgaria) 9.36
15 Jew (Italian) 9.91
16 Greek (Azov) 10.24
17 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 10.29
18 Jew (Ashkenazi) 10.46
19 Jew (Sephardim) 10.81
20 Jew (Turkey) 10.95

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 97.1% Greek (Greece) + 2.9% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 2.68
2 76.3% Greek (Greece) + 23.7% Greek (Athens) @ 2.8
3 98.6% Greek (Greece) + 1.4% Basque (France) @ 2.81
4 98.6% Greek (Greece) + 1.4% French (SouthFrance) @ 2.83
5 98.7% Greek (Greece) + 1.3% Spanish (Pais_Vasco) @ 2.84
6 97.3% Greek (Greece) + 2.7% Italian (Bergamo) @ 2.84
7 99% Greek (Greece) + 1% Spanish (Andalucia) @ 2.87
8 98.9% Greek (Greece) + 1.1% Corsican (Corsica) @ 2.88
9 99.4% Greek (Greece) + 0.6% Spanish (Spain) @ 2.89
10 99.1% Greek (Greece) + 0.9% Sicilian (Sicily) @ 2.89
11 99.7% Greek (Greece) + 0.3% Kosovar (Kosovo) @ 2.89
12 99.9% Greek (Greece) + 0.1% French (France) @ 2.89
13 100% Greek (Greece) + 0% Greek (Thessaloniki) @ 2.89
14 100% Greek (Greece) + 0% Abkhazian (Gudauta) @ 2.89
15 100% Greek (Greece) + 0% Abkhazian_Lykhny (Lykhny) @ 2.89
16 100% Greek (Greece) + 0% Adygei (Adygea) @ 2.89
17 100% Greek (Greece) + 0% Aeta (Philippines) @ 2.89
18 100% Greek (Greece) + 0% Afa (Ethiopia) @ 2.89
19 100% Greek (Greece) + 0% Pashtun (Afganistan) @ 2.89
20 100% Greek (Greece) + 0% Albanian (Albania) @ 2.89


Rhodes, Dodecanese:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 45.83
2 Neolithic 22.8
3 Steppe 11.66
4 NearEast 8.49
5 NorthEastEuropean 6.47
6 NorthAfrican 2.88
7 Indian 0.95
8 Australian 0.61
9 Siberian 0.31

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek (Greece) 5.25
2 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 6.98
3 Greek (Athens) 7.06
4 Jew (Ashkenazi) 7.19
5 Jew (Bulgaria) 7.2
6 Greek (Azov) 7.7
7 Jew (Sephardim) 7.77
8 Jew (Italian) 7.93
9 Jew (Ashkenazim) 7.96
10 Jew (Turkey) 8.09
11 Cypriot (Cyprus) 8.31
12 Italian (SouthItaly) 8.34
13 Jew (Syria) 9.04
14 Greek (Macedonia) 9.15
15 Sicilian (Sicily) 9.21
16 Turk (Istanbul) 9.81
17 Maltese (Malta) 9.86
18 Jew (Algeria) 9.97
19 Jew (Ashkenazi) 10.2
20 Turk (Turkey) 10.3

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 66.7% Sicilian (Sicily) + 33.3% Armenian (Armenia) @ 2.33
2 69.2% Italian (SouthItaly) + 30.8% Armenian (Armenia) @ 2.58
3 72.2% Greek (Greece) + 27.8% Arab_Israel (Iqrit) @ 2.6
4 52.6% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 47.4% Greek (Macedonia) @ 2.61
5 67.2% Sicilian (Sicily) + 32.8% Armenian (Armenia) @ 2.61
6 68.9% Greek (Greece) + 31.1% Lebanese_Christian (Lebanon) @ 2.66
7 69.7% Italian (SouthItaly) + 30.3% Armenian (Armenia) @ 2.75
8 60.5% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 39.5% Greek (Greece) @ 2.91
9 82.4% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 17.6% Scottish (Argyll_bute) @ 2.91
10 70.6% Italian (SouthItaly) + 29.4% Jew (Georgia) @ 2.93
11 81.3% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 18.7% Irish (Connacht) @ 2.93
12 74.5% Greek (Greece) + 25.5% Samaritan (Israel) @ 2.93
13 80.9% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 19.1% English (England) @ 2.95
14 73.6% Greek (Athens) + 26.4% Jew (Iraqi) @ 2.96
15 82.7% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 17.3% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) @ 2.97
16 79.5% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 20.5% German (Germany) @ 2.98
17 64.7% Greek (Athens) + 35.3% Armenian (Lebanon) @ 2.99
18 81.5% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 18.5% Shetlandic (Shetland_Islands) @ 3
19 68.2% Sicilian (Sicily) + 31.8% Jew (Georgia) @ 3
20 66.5% Greek (Greece) + 33.5% Jew (Syria) @ 3



Kalymnos, Dodecanese:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 46.88
2 Neolithic 26.77
3 Steppe 8.62
4 NorthEastEuropean 7.01
5 NearEast 5.22
6 Indian 2.75
7 NorthAfrican 2.74

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek (Greece) 5.9
2 Greek (Athens) 6.9
3 Italian (SouthItaly) 8.91
4 Jew (Ashkenazi) 9.4
5 Sicilian (Sicily) 9.49
6 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 9.61
7 Jew (Bulgaria) 9.76
8 Jew (Ashkenazim) 9.77
9 Maltese (Malta) 9.93
10 Jew (Italian) 9.94
11 Cypriot (Cyprus) 10.19
12 Jew (Turkey) 10.51
13 Greek (Azov) 10.52
14 Jew (Sephardim) 10.56
15 Greek (Macedonia) 10.71
16 Italian (Abruzzo) 11.74
17 Jew (Ashkenazi) 11.82
18 Jew (Morocco) 11.88
19 Jew (Algeria) 12.01
20 Greek (Peloponnes) 12.04

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 65.4% Armenian (Armenia) + 34.6% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 4.04
2 64.2% Jew (Georgia) + 35.8% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 4.39
3 67.1% Georgian (Laz) + 32.9% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 4.64
4 72.2% Sicilian (Sicily) + 27.8% Turk (Trabzon) @ 4.76
5 75.7% Greek (Athens) + 24.3% Druze (Mount_Carmel) @ 4.88
6 80.1% Greek (Athens) + 19.9% Jew (Iraqi) @ 4.93
7 70% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 30% Italian (Bergamo) @ 4.97
8 56.5% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 43.5% Greek (Thessaloniki) @ 4.98
9 53.1% Corsican (Corsica) + 46.9% Turk (Trabzon) @ 4.99
10 81.3% Greek (Athens) + 18.7% Jew (Iran) @ 5.05
11 74.4% Italian (SouthItaly) + 25.6% Turk (Trabzon) @ 5.08
12 56.6% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 43.4% Albanian (Albania) @ 5.11
13 82.3% Greek (Athens) + 17.7% Turk (Trabzon) @ 5.17
14 81.1% Greek (Athens) + 18.9% Armenian (Armenia) @ 5.22
15 82.3% Greek (Athens) + 17.7% Jew (Georgia) @ 5.3
16 62.4% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 37.6% Kosovar (Kosovo) @ 5.32
17 85.2% Greek (Greece) + 14.8% Jew (Tunisian) @ 5.35
18 85.9% Greek (Greece) + 14.1% Druze (Mount_Carmel) @ 5.36
19 88.8% Greek (Greece) + 11.2% Jew (Iraqi) @ 5.38
20 66.5% Adjar (Adjaria) + 33.5% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 5.38


Kalymnos, Dodecanese:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 44.8
2 Neolithic 23.72
3 Steppe 10.12
4 NearEast 8.23
5 NorthEastEuropean 7.51
6 NorthAfrican 4.63
7 SouthEastAsian 0.66
8 Indian 0.32

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek (Greece) 5.01
2 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 5.91
3 Jew (Ashkenazi) 6.08
4 Jew (Bulgaria) 6.13
5 Greek (Athens) 6.48
6 Jew (Ashkenazim) 6.61
7 Jew (Italian) 6.67
8 Jew (Sephardim) 6.89
9 Italian (SouthItaly) 7.1
10 Jew (Turkey) 7.11
11 Sicilian (Sicily) 7.75
12 Maltese (Malta) 7.97
13 Jew (Algeria) 8.76
14 Jew (Morocco) 8.76
15 Greek (Macedonia) 8.8
16 Greek (Azov) 8.9
17 Cypriot (Cyprus) 9.1
18 Jew (Ashkenazi) 9.22
19 Jew (Syria) 9.44
20 Italian (Abruzzo) 9.71

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 73.9% Greek (Greece) + 26.1% Jew (Tunisian) @ 2.44
2 56.9% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 43.1% Albanian (Albania) @ 2.48
3 55.8% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 44.2% Greek (Greece) @ 2.62
4 76.9% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 23.1% German (Germany) @ 2.63
5 72.6% Greek (Greece) + 27.4% Jew (Libya) @ 2.66
6 68.9% Italian (SouthItaly) + 31.1% Druze (Mount_Carmel) @ 2.77
7 57% Italian (SouthItaly) + 43% Cypriot (Cyprus) @ 2.77
8 62.6% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 37.4% Kosovar (Kosovo) @ 2.81
9 64.5% Greek (Athens) + 35.5% Lebanese_Christian (Lebanon) @ 2.84
10 76.2% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 23.8% French (EastFrance) @ 2.86
11 75.9% Greek (Greece) + 24.1% Samaritan (Israel) @ 2.87
12 68.7% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 31.3% Romanian (Gorj) @ 2.89
13 73.8% Sicilian (Sicily) + 26.2% Jew (Georgia) @ 2.91
14 73.4% Sicilian (Sicily) + 26.6% Armenian (Armenia) @ 2.96
15 78.6% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 21.4% French (France) @ 2.97
16 54.6% Sicilian (Sicily) + 45.4% Cypriot (Cyprus) @ 2.97
17 73.9% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 26.1% Provencal (Provence) @ 2.99
18 80% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 20% English (Kent) @ 2.99
19 75.8% Sicilian (Sicily) + 24.2% Turk (Trabzon) @ 2.99
20 61.9% Jew (Ashkenazi) + 38.1% Cypriot (Cyprus) @ 3

Dorkymon
08-12-2019, 10:34 AM
Islanders could be the "purest" just from a genetic perspective. I've been reading Henrik Willem van Loon's "Story of the Mankind" and there he mentions that Hellenes basically learned from older inhabitants of the Greece and then drove them to the islands.

"THE Pyramids were a thousand years old and were beginning to show the first signs of decay, and Hammurabi, the wise king of Babylon, had been dead and buried several centuries, when a small tribe of shepherds left their homes along the banks of the River Danube and wandered southward in search of fresh pastures. They called themselves Hellenes, after Hellen, the son of Deucalion and Pyrrha. According to the old myths these were the only two human beings who had escaped the great flood, which countless years before had destroyed all the people of the world, when they had grown so wicked that they disgusted Zeus, the mighty God, who lived on Mount Olympus.

Of these early Hellenes we know nothing. Thucydides, the historian of the fall of Athens, describing his earliest ancestors, said that they "did not amount to very much," and this was probably true. They were very ill-mannered. They lived like pigs and threw the bodies of their enemies to the wild dogs who guarded their sheep. They had very little respect for other people's rights, and they killed the natives of the Greek peninsula (who were called the Pelasgians) and stole their farms and took their cattle and made their wives and daughters slaves and wrote endless songs praising the courage of the clan of the Achaeans, who had led the Hellenic advance-guard into the mountains of Thessaly and the Peloponnesus.

But here and there, on the tops of high rocks, they saw the castles of the AEgeans and those they did not attack for they feared the metal swords and the spears of the AEgean soldiers and knew that they could not hope to defeat them with their clumsy stone axes.

For many centuries they continued to wander from valley to valley and from mountain side to mountain side Then the whole of the land had been occupied and the migration had come to an end.

That moment was the beginning of Greek civilisation. The Greek farmer, living within sight of the AEgean colonies, was finally driven by curiosity to visit his haughty neighbours. He discovered that he could learn many useful things from the men who dwelt behind the high stone walls of Mycenae, and Tiryns.

He was a clever pupil. Within a short time he mastered the art of handling those strange iron weapons which the AEgeans had brought from Babylon and from Thebes. He came to understand the mysteries of navigation. He began to build little boats for his own use.

And when he had learned everything the AEgeans could teach him he turned upon his teachers and drove them back to their islands. Soon afterwards he ventured forth upon the sea and conquered all the cities of the AEgean. Finally in the fifteenth century before our era he plundered and ravaged Cnossus and ten centuries after their first appearance upon the scene the Hellenes were the undisputed rulers of Greece, of the AEgean and of the coastal regions of Asia Minor. Troy, the last great commercial stronghold of the older civilisation, was destroyed in the eleventh century B.C. European history was to begin in all seriousness."

Sounds like Yamna or an Yamna offshoot to me.

Greekscholar
08-12-2019, 08:01 PM
Islanders could be the "purest" just from a genetic perspective. I've been reading Henrik Willem van Loon's "Story of the Mankind" and there he mentions that Hellenes basically learned from older inhabitants of the Greece and then drove them to the islands.

"THE Pyramids were a thousand years old and were beginning to show the first signs of decay, and Hammurabi, the wise king of Babylon, had been dead and buried several centuries, when a small tribe of shepherds left their homes along the banks of the River Danube and wandered southward in search of fresh pastures. They called themselves Hellenes, after Hellen, the son of Deucalion and Pyrrha. According to the old myths these were the only two human beings who had escaped the great flood, which countless years before had destroyed all the people of the world, when they had grown so wicked that they disgusted Zeus, the mighty God, who lived on Mount Olympus.

Of these early Hellenes we know nothing. Thucydides, the historian of the fall of Athens, describing his earliest ancestors, said that they "did not amount to very much," and this was probably true. They were very ill-mannered. They lived like pigs and threw the bodies of their enemies to the wild dogs who guarded their sheep. They had very little respect for other people's rights, and they killed the natives of the Greek peninsula (who were called the Pelasgians) and stole their farms and took their cattle and made their wives and daughters slaves and wrote endless songs praising the courage of the clan of the Achaeans, who had led the Hellenic advance-guard into the mountains of Thessaly and the Peloponnesus.

But here and there, on the tops of high rocks, they saw the castles of the AEgeans and those they did not attack for they feared the metal swords and the spears of the AEgean soldiers and knew that they could not hope to defeat them with their clumsy stone axes.

For many centuries they continued to wander from valley to valley and from mountain side to mountain side Then the whole of the land had been occupied and the migration had come to an end.

That moment was the beginning of Greek civilisation. The Greek farmer, living within sight of the AEgean colonies, was finally driven by curiosity to visit his haughty neighbours. He discovered that he could learn many useful things from the men who dwelt behind the high stone walls of Mycenae, and Tiryns.

He was a clever pupil. Within a short time he mastered the art of handling those strange iron weapons which the AEgeans had brought from Babylon and from Thebes. He came to understand the mysteries of navigation. He began to build little boats for his own use.

And when he had learned everything the AEgeans could teach him he turned upon his teachers and drove them back to their islands. Soon afterwards he ventured forth upon the sea and conquered all the cities of the AEgean. Finally in the fifteenth century before our era he plundered and ravaged Cnossus and ten centuries after their first appearance upon the scene the Hellenes were the undisputed rulers of Greece, of the AEgean and of the coastal regions of Asia Minor. Troy, the last great commercial stronghold of the older civilisation, was destroyed in the eleventh century B.C. European history was to begin in all seriousness."

Sounds like Yamna or an Yamna offshoot to me.

The studies I have read indicate the genetic split between Mainland Greeks and Island Greeks took place during the Slavic migrations of the European Dark Ages. Once Byzantine power waxed again, these people were Hellenized and incorporated into the local Greek populations. There is much less of this Slavic element on the islands, but it is not completely absent either.

Speaking of any one Greek population as "more pure" than others is not a very useful way of looking at things. As this thread shows, Greeks from the Aegean islands occupy a fairly large genetic space ranging from overlapping with Southern Italians in some cases all the way to overlapping with Greek Cypriots in other individuals.

Dorkymon
08-12-2019, 10:05 PM
The studies I have read indicate the genetic split between Mainland Greeks and Island Greeks took place during the Slavic migrations of the European Dark Ages. Once Byzantine power waxed again, these people were Hellenized and incorporated into the local Greek populations. There is much less of this Slavic element on the islands, but it is not completely absent either.

Speaking of any one Greek population as "more pure" than others is not a very useful way of looking at things. As this thread shows, Greeks from the Aegean islands occupy a fairly large genetic space ranging from overlapping with Southern Italians in some cases all the way to overlapping with Greek Cypriots in other individuals.

I don't hold a strong opinion either way. Hopefully the samples from Ancient Greece are on their way and they will help us make sense of these written records.

Sikeliot
08-12-2019, 10:23 PM
The studies I have read indicate the genetic split between Mainland Greeks and Island Greeks took place during the Slavic migrations of the European Dark Ages. Once Byzantine power waxed again, these people were Hellenized and incorporated into the local Greek populations. There is much less of this Slavic element on the islands, but it is not completely absent either.

Speaking of any one Greek population as "more pure" than others is not a very useful way of looking at things. As this thread shows, Greeks from the Aegean islands occupy a fairly large genetic space ranging from overlapping with Southern Italians in some cases all the way to overlapping with Greek Cypriots in other individuals.


Southern Italians have the same degree of genetic variation. For the most part, you could find counterparts for any island to any southern Italian region, including Cypriot-like individuals.

Greekscholar
08-13-2019, 12:29 AM
I don't hold a strong opinion either way. Hopefully the samples from Ancient Greece are on their way and they will help us make sense of these written records.

Oh, I don't doubt the history. It is just that the studies I have read attribute the modern difference between the mainland and the islands to the Slavic migrations, rather than these earlier ones. A people who have a written history that goes back 2,000 years are going to have multiple events that affect their genetic profile. No doubts there either.

I am going to see what happens if I run some of my GEDmatch samples through the Taxe de Similitude ancient matching utility. It will be interesting to see if modern Mainland and Island individuals match Minoan and Mycenaean samples differently. It seems de Loon is discussing the fall of Mycenaean civilization in the selection you quoted, but it would still be a starting point.

Sikeliot
08-13-2019, 12:32 AM
Oh, I don't doubt the history. It is just that the studies I have read attribute the modern difference between the mainland and the islands to the Slavic migrations, rather than these earlier ones. A people who have a written history that goes back 2,000 years are going to have multiple events that affect their genetic profile. No doubts there either.

I am going to see what happens if I run some of my GEDmatch samples through the Taxe de Similitude ancient matching utility. It will be interesting to see if modern Mainland and Island individuals match Minoan and Mycenaean samples differently. It seems de Loon is discussing the fall of Mycenaean civilization in the selection you quoted, but it would still be a starting point.


I am doing a new PCA plot with a lot of Sicilians, South Italians, Greeks from all regions, and it will be very useful. I can show you on the same plot when it is done where Mycenaeans and Minoans plot.

TonyC
08-13-2019, 01:20 AM
Oh, I don't doubt the history. It is just that the studies I have read attribute the modern difference between the mainland and the islands to the Slavic migrations, rather than these earlier ones. A people who have a written history that goes back 2,000 years are going to have multiple events that affect their genetic profile. No doubts there either.

I am going to see what happens if I run some of my GEDmatch samples through the Taxe de Similitude ancient matching utility. It will be interesting to see if modern Mainland and Island individuals match Minoan and Mycenaean samples differently. It seems de Loon is discussing the fall of Mycenaean civilization in the selection you quoted, but it would still be a starting point.

If you'd like my gedmatch number I can provide. I'm 100% Peloponnesian from Messinia and Arcadia. All grandparents born before 1890's in remote mountain villages one of which no longer exists. Maybe hard to believe but absolutely true.

Sikeliot
08-13-2019, 02:25 AM
If you'd like my gedmatch number I can provide. I'm 100% Peloponnesian from Messinia and Arcadia. All grandparents born before 1890's in remote mountain villages one of which no longer exists. Maybe hard to believe but absolutely true.

I would actually like it so I can see your results if you do not mind.

Kanenas
08-13-2019, 05:49 AM
Islanders could be the "purest" just from a genetic perspective. I've been reading Henrik Willem van Loon's "Story of the Mankind" and there he mentions that Hellenes basically learned from older inhabitants of the Greece and then drove them to the islands.

"THE Pyramids were a thousand years old and were beginning to show the first signs of decay, and Hammurabi, the wise king of Babylon, had been dead and buried several centuries, when a small tribe of shepherds left their homes along the banks of the River Danube and wandered southward in search of fresh pastures. They called themselves Hellenes, after Hellen, the son of Deucalion and Pyrrha. According to the old myths these were the only two human beings who had escaped the great flood, which countless years before had destroyed all the people of the world, when they had grown so wicked that they disgusted Zeus, the mighty God, who lived on Mount Olympus.

Of these early Hellenes we know nothing. Thucydides, the historian of the fall of Athens, describing his earliest ancestors, said that they "did not amount to very much," and this was probably true. They were very ill-mannered. They lived like pigs and threw the bodies of their enemies to the wild dogs who guarded their sheep. They had very little respect for other people's rights, and they killed the natives of the Greek peninsula (who were called the Pelasgians) and stole their farms and took their cattle and made their wives and daughters slaves and wrote endless songs praising the courage of the clan of the Achaeans, who had led the Hellenic advance-guard into the mountains of Thessaly and the Peloponnesus.

But here and there, on the tops of high rocks, they saw the castles of the AEgeans and those they did not attack for they feared the metal swords and the spears of the AEgean soldiers and knew that they could not hope to defeat them with their clumsy stone axes.

For many centuries they continued to wander from valley to valley and from mountain side to mountain side Then the whole of the land had been occupied and the migration had come to an end.

That moment was the beginning of Greek civilisation. The Greek farmer, living within sight of the AEgean colonies, was finally driven by curiosity to visit his haughty neighbours. He discovered that he could learn many useful things from the men who dwelt behind the high stone walls of Mycenae, and Tiryns.

He was a clever pupil. Within a short time he mastered the art of handling those strange iron weapons which the AEgeans had brought from Babylon and from Thebes. He came to understand the mysteries of navigation. He began to build little boats for his own use.

And when he had learned everything the AEgeans could teach him he turned upon his teachers and drove them back to their islands. Soon afterwards he ventured forth upon the sea and conquered all the cities of the AEgean. Finally in the fifteenth century before our era he plundered and ravaged Cnossus and ten centuries after their first appearance upon the scene the Hellenes were the undisputed rulers of Greece, of the AEgean and of the coastal regions of Asia Minor. Troy, the last great commercial stronghold of the older civilisation, was destroyed in the eleventh century B.C. European history was to begin in all seriousness."

Sounds like Yamna or an Yamna offshoot to me.

That is something a random Dutch guy has written. Not something that really happened.

Andrewid
08-13-2019, 01:17 PM
Southern Italians have the same degree of genetic variation. For the most part, you could find counterparts for any island to any southern Italian region, including Cypriot-like individuals.

In other words, the Mediterranean genetic continuum is a bit like a Graeco-Roman mosaic made by the historic inhabitants of the area:)

Sikeliot
08-13-2019, 01:34 PM
In other words, the Mediterranean genetic continuum is a bit like a Graeco-Roman mosaic made by the historic inhabitants of the area:)

Correct. And I think the calculator averages we have for some regions versus others make the average East Med person look more differentiated from other parts of the continuum than they truly are.

We are left to believe that the "Sicily" samples from two lowly populated parts of the island represent all Sicilians, that Crete has such little variety that one "Cretan" sample works for all of Crete (it doesn't... some western Cretans are closer to some mainland samples in fact), or that the Dodecanese is homogenous.

This will be better clarified on the new PCA plot Tomenable is making with my samples, but the issue I have especially with the Sicilian samples on these calculators being the sole samples is better clarified by using this example. This is a person with origins from the northern part of Caltanissetta, followed by a person from Palermo (who is related to me), followed by a person from inland Catania. The whole northeast and central part of the island has a lot of people with similar results and collectively makes up more than HALF of the island's population (if you add up Messina, Palermo, Catania, and Caltansisetta) but the samples we have "East" and "West" Sicily don't represent this.

Are these people really that different from the Dodecanese for instance? No, not really. But you wouldn't know this because northeast, central, central-west, and inland Sicily are so poorly sampled.

#1: Caltanissetta This person is similar to someone who is half Tuscan, half Lebanese.


# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 36.61
2 European_Early_Farmers 20.62
3 Near_East 13.49
4 European_Hunters_Gatherers 8.39
5 South_Central_Asian 7.14
6 North_African 5.85
7 Amerindian 1.88
8 South_East_Asian 1.44
9 Melano_Polynesian 1.15
10 Subsaharian 0.97
11 Ancestral_Altaic 0.92
12 East_Siberian 0.65
13 Tungus-Altaic 0.48
14 East_African 0.39
15 African_Pygmy 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) 4.87
2 Sephardic_Jew ( ) 5.26
3 Turk_Jew ( ) 5.48
4 French_Jew ( ) 6.01
5 Italian_Jew ( ) 6.21
6 Sicilian_West ( ) 6.34
7 Sicilian_East ( ) 6.65
8 Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) 6.65
9 Sicilian_Agrigento ( ) 6.76
10 Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) 7.38
11 Ashkenazi ( ) 7.57
12 Maltese ( ) 8.12
13 Cretan ( ) 8.34
14 Sicilian_Trapani ( ) 8.35
15 Romanian_Jew ( ) 8.54
16 Moroccan_Jew ( ) 8.56
17 Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) 8.76
18 Greek_Northwest ( ) 8.96
19 Greek_Thessaly ( ) 9.06
20 Syrian_Jew ( ) 9.4

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 54.5% Lebanese ( ) + 45.5% Italian_Piedmont ( ) @ 2.67
2 50.6% Lebanese ( ) + 49.4% Italian_Tuscan ( ) @ 2.67
3 73.4% Sicilian_West ( ) + 26.6% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) @ 2.72
4 61.4% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 38.6% Italian_Bergamo ( ) @ 2.76
5 79.2% Sicilian_West ( ) + 20.8% Lebanese_Druze ( ) @ 2.88
6 53.7% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 46.3% Italian_Piedmont ( ) @ 2.9
7 79.4% Sicilian_West ( ) + 20.6% Lebanese_Christian ( ) @ 2.9
8 73.1% Sicilian_West ( ) + 26.9% Lebanese ( ) @ 2.91
9 77.8% Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) + 22.2% Iraki ( ) @ 2.97
10 74.6% Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) + 25.4% Muslim_Arabs_Israel ( ) @ 2.97
11 61.6% Lebanese_Christian ( ) + 38.4% French ( ) @ 3
12 63.1% Lebanese_Druze ( ) + 36.9% Portugese ( ) @ 3.01
13 80.3% Sicilian_West ( ) + 19.7% Iraqi_Jew ( ) @ 3.02
14 66.5% Lebanese_Druze ( ) + 33.5% Spanish_Galicia_IBS ( ) @ 3.03
15 83.1% Sicilian_West ( ) + 16.9% Druze ( ) @ 3.06
16 75.9% Sicilian_West ( ) + 24.1% Samaritian ( ) @ 3.08
17 55.6% Italian_North ( ) + 44.4% Lebanese_Christian ( ) @ 3.12
18 50.2% Italian_Tuscan ( ) + 49.8% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) @ 3.13
19 66% Lebanese_Druze ( ) + 34% Spanish_Extremadura_IBS ( ) @ 3.18
20 61.9% Lebanese_Druze ( ) + 38.1% French ( ) @ 3.18



# Population Percent
1 East_Med 32.18
2 West_Med 16.88
3 West_Asian 15.29
4 Atlantic 12.67
5 North_Sea 6.34
6 Red_Sea 6.24
7 Baltic 3.97
8 Eastern_Euro 2.71
9 Northeast_African 1.73
10 Siberian 0.65
11 Southeast_Asian 0.64
12 Oceanian 0.37
13 Amerindian 0.34

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 4.32
2 Italian_Jewish 4.58
3 Sephardic_Jewish 4.67
4 East_Sicilian 5.93
5 Algerian_Jewish 5.98
6 Central_Greek 6.58
7 Ashkenazi 7.47
8 Tunisian_Jewish 8.27
9 West_Sicilian 8.51
10 Italian_Abruzzo 8.9
11 Cyprian 10.17
12 Libyan_Jewish 11.05
13 Greek 11.95
14 Greek_Thessaly 13.39
15 Lebanese_Muslim 13.92
16 Tuscan 14.7
17 Syrian 15.08
18 Turkish 16.7
19 Samaritan 16.85
20 Jordanian 17.81

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 54.6% West_Sicilian + 45.4% Cyprian @ 1.79
2 73.7% Cyprian + 26.3% Spanish_Murcia @ 1.87
3 74.7% Cyprian + 25.3% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 1.91
4 74.9% Cyprian + 25.1% Spanish_Cataluna @ 1.94
5 73.9% Cyprian + 26.1% Portuguese @ 1.98
6 76.5% Cyprian + 23.5% Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.08
7 73.6% Cyprian + 26.4% Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.11
8 75.1% Cyprian + 24.9% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.15
9 74.7% Cyprian + 25.3% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.17
10 77.1% Cyprian + 22.9% Southwest_French @ 2.18
11 73.6% Cyprian + 26.4% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.18
12 68% Cyprian + 32% North_Italian @ 2.19
13 56.3% Central_Greek + 43.7% Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.21
14 59.4% Cyprian + 40.6% Tuscan @ 2.22
15 76.3% Cyprian + 23.7% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.38
16 74.6% Cyprian + 25.4% Spanish_Galicia @ 2.43
17 69.1% South_Italian + 30.9% Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.49
18 90.3% Italian_Jewish + 9.7% Kabardin @ 2.5
19 90.4% Italian_Jewish + 9.6% Balkar @ 2.53
20 84.1% South_Italian + 15.9% Palestinian @ 2.55



#2:Palermo: This person is an extra 20% West Asian shifted compared to the calculator averages.


# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 38.26
2 European_Early_Farmers 21.19
3 Near_East 12.96
4 European_Hunters_Gatherers 11.43
5 South_Central_Asian 7.1
6 North_African 6.34
7 Subsaharian 1.03
8 Amerindian 0.86
9 Archaic_Human 0.53
10 South_Indian 0.21
11 Paleo_Siberian 0.1

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian_East ( ) 4.34
2 French_Jew ( ) 4.75
3 Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) 4.8
4 Turk_Jew ( ) 4.96
5 Sephardic_Jew ( ) 4.96
6 Italian_Jew ( ) 5.14
7 Ashkenazi ( ) 5.51
8 Cretan ( ) 5.54
9 Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) 5.73
10 Romanian_Jew ( ) 6.41
11 Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) 6.52
12 Sicilian_Agrigento ( ) 6.96
13 Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) 7.42
14 Sicilian_West ( ) 7.63
15 Greek_Thessaly ( ) 7.9
16 Central_Greek ( ) 8.34
17 Syrian_Jew ( ) 8.4
18 Sicilian_Center ( ) 8.44
19 Greek ( ) 8.46
20 Maltese ( ) 8.64

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 80% Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) + 20% Iraqi_Mandean ( ) @ 1.8
2 77.5% Sicilian_West ( ) + 22.5% Druze ( ) @ 1.92
3 81.2% Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) + 18.8% Kurd_Jew ( ) @ 1.94
4 64.7% Sicilian_West ( ) + 35.3% Cypriot ( ) @ 1.97
5 74.9% Sicilian_Agrigento ( ) + 25.1% Lebanese_Druze ( ) @ 1.97
6 81.3% Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) + 18.7% Iranian_Jew ( ) @ 2
7 85.4% Sicilian_East ( ) + 14.6% Iraki ( ) @ 2.03
8 74.8% Sicilian_West ( ) + 25.2% Christian_Arabs_Israel ( ) @ 2.03
9 77.5% Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) + 22.5% Iraqi_Chaldean ( ) @ 2.03
10 76.4% Sicilian_Agrigento ( ) + 23.6% Iraqi_Jew ( ) @ 2.07
11 71.8% Sicilian_Trapani ( ) + 28.2% Iraqi_Jew ( ) @ 2.07
12 86.9% Sicilian_East ( ) + 13.1% Kurd_South ( ) @ 2.11
13 73.2% Sicilian_West ( ) + 26.8% Lebanese_Christian ( ) @ 2.12
14 70.1% Sicilian_Trapani ( ) + 29.9% Lebanese_Druze ( ) @ 2.12
15 60.5% Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) + 39.5% Syrian_Jew ( ) @ 2.17
16 73.1% Sicilian_West ( ) + 26.9% Lebanese_Druze ( ) @ 2.19
17 84.2% Sicilian_East ( ) + 15.8% Syrian ( ) @ 2.21
18 81.2% Sicilian_East ( ) + 18.8% Turk_Adana ( ) @ 2.21
19 81.6% Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) + 18.4% Uzbekistani_Jew ( ) @ 2.21
20 79.4% Sicilian_Agrigento ( ) + 20.6% Druze ( ) @ 2.22



# Population Percent
1 East_Med 30.17
2 West_Med 17.99
3 West_Asian 15.89
4 Atlantic 14.42
5 Red_Sea 7.19
6 Baltic 6.27
7 North_Sea 4.88
8 Eastern_Euro 1.25
9 Northeast_African 1.19
10 Sub-Saharan 0.75

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 3.78
2 East_Sicilian 5.39
3 Sephardic_Jewish 5.94
4 Central_Greek 6.22
5 Italian_Jewish 6.87
6 Algerian_Jewish 7.26
7 West_Sicilian 8.09
8 Ashkenazi 8.12
9 Italian_Abruzzo 8.4
10 Tunisian_Jewish 9.83
11 Greek 10.85
12 Cyprian 11.81
13 Greek_Thessaly 12.92
14 Libyan_Jewish 13.37
15 Tuscan 13.69
16 Lebanese_Muslim 15.57
17 Syrian 16.51
18 Turkish 17.58
19 Samaritan 18.59
20 Bulgarian 19.02

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 73.6% Cyprian + 26.4% Southwest_French @ 2.93
2 69.7% Cyprian + 30.3% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.06
3 69.9% South_Italian + 30.1% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.09
4 81.6% South_Italian + 18.4% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.14
5 91.4% South_Italian + 8.6% Bedouin @ 3.18
6 94.6% South_Italian + 5.4% Saudi @ 3.26
7 92.8% South_Italian + 7.2% Egyptian @ 3.29
8 71.7% Cyprian + 28.3% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.3
9 89.8% South_Italian + 10.2% Syrian @ 3.31
10 91.4% South_Italian + 8.6% Jordanian @ 3.32
11 71.3% Cyprian + 28.7% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.33
12 73.3% Cyprian + 26.7% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.33
13 91.9% South_Italian + 8.1% Palestinian @ 3.34
14 86.5% South_Italian + 13.5% Cyprian @ 3.34
15 77.8% Cyprian + 22.2% French_Basque @ 3.35
16 71.2% Cyprian + 28.8% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.36
17 72.9% Cyprian + 27.1% Spanish_Aragon @ 3.37
18 91.4% South_Italian + 8.6% Samaritan @ 3.37
19 89.9% South_Italian + 10.1% Lebanese_Muslim @ 3.37
20 95.4% South_Italian + 4.6% Yemenite_Jewish @ 3.39


#3: Inland Catania/Mt. Etna area: very close to Sephardim, Algerian Jews, and Turkish Jews.


# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 35.78
2 European_Early_Farmers 22.9
3 Near_East 14.7
4 European_Hunters_Gatherers 8.92
5 North_African 7.85
6 South_Central_Asian 5.27
7 Ancestral_Altaic 1.47
8 Archaic_African 1
9 Melano_Polynesian 0.92
10 South_Indian 0.44
11 East_African 0.43
12 Khoisan 0.12
13 Tungus-Altaic 0.11
14 Subsaharian 0.07
15 East_Siberian 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sephardic_Jew ( ) 3.21
2 Turk_Jew ( ) 3.59
3 Italian_Jew ( ) 4.4
4 Sicilian_Agrigento ( ) 4.46
5 French_Jew ( ) 4.62
6 Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) 4.65
7 Sicilian_West ( ) 4.97
8 Maltese ( ) 5.27
9 Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) 5.38
10 Moroccan_Jew ( ) 5.53
11 Sicilian_Trapani ( ) 5.83
12 Sicilian_East ( ) 6.02
13 Ashkenazi ( ) 8
14 Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) 8.54
15 Libyan_Jew ( ) 8.54
16 Tunisian_Jew ( ) 9.11
17 Greek_Northwest ( ) 9.41
18 Greek_Thessaly ( ) 9.81
19 Romanian_Jew ( ) 9.82
20 Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) 10.1

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 91.7% Turk_Jew ( ) + 8.3% British ( ) @ 1.74
2 91% Turk_Jew ( ) + 9% English_Kent_GBR ( ) @ 1.74
3 91.3% Turk_Jew ( ) + 8.7% English_Cornwall_GBR ( ) @ 1.75
4 91.6% Turk_Jew ( ) + 8.4% Welsh ( ) @ 1.76
5 91.6% Turk_Jew ( ) + 8.4% CEU ( ) @ 1.76
6 90% Turk_Jew ( ) + 10% Belgian ( ) @ 1.77
7 90.1% Turk_Jew ( ) + 9.9% Frisian ( ) @ 1.77
8 90.6% Turk_Jew ( ) + 9.4% Irish ( ) @ 1.79
9 92.5% Turk_Jew ( ) + 7.5% Orcadian ( ) @ 1.79
10 92.2% Turk_Jew ( ) + 7.8% Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR ( ) @ 1.79
11 58.9% Lebanese_Christian ( ) + 41.1% Portugese ( ) @ 1.8
12 90.7% Turk_Jew ( ) + 9.3% English ( ) @ 1.81
13 91.4% Turk_Jew ( ) + 8.6% French ( ) @ 1.82
14 63.2% Lebanese_Christian ( ) + 36.8% Spanish_Castilla_y_Leon_IBS ( ) @ 1.82
15 91.2% Turk_Jew ( ) + 8.8% North_European ( ) @ 1.82
16 95.2% French_Jew ( ) + 4.8% BedouinB ( ) @ 1.83
17 83.8% Turk_Jew ( ) + 16.2% Italian_North ( ) @ 1.83
18 92% Turk_Jew ( ) + 8% Norwegian_West ( ) @ 1.83
19 88.6% Turk_Jew ( ) + 11.4% South_German ( ) @ 1.84
20 92.2% Turk_Jew ( ) + 7.8% Icelandic ( ) @ 1.86



# Population Percent
1 East_Med 32.09
2 Atlantic 18.07
3 West_Med 17.13
4 West_Asian 12.87
5 Red_Sea 8.11
6 Baltic 3.95
7 North_Sea 3.28
8 Sub-Saharan 1.69
9 Eastern_Euro 1.49
10 Northeast_African 0.9
11 Amerindian 0.42

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sephardic_Jewish 5.11
2 Algerian_Jewish 6.29
3 Italian_Jewish 7.18
4 South_Italian 7.32
5 West_Sicilian 8.17
6 Tunisian_Jewish 8.79
7 East_Sicilian 8.83
8 Central_Greek 9.99
9 Italian_Abruzzo 10.41
10 Ashkenazi 10.86
11 Cyprian 13.17
12 Greek 13.36
13 Libyan_Jewish 13.77
14 Tuscan 14.65
15 Greek_Thessaly 16.08
16 Lebanese_Muslim 16.77
17 Syrian 17.59
18 Samaritan 18.89
19 Jordanian 19.74
20 Palestinian 20.09

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 91.8% Sephardic_Jewish + 8.2% French_Basque @ 3.78
2 65.5% Lebanese_Christian + 34.5% French_Basque @ 4.05
3 89.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 10.8% Spanish_Andalucia @ 4.05
4 67.6% Samaritan + 32.4% French_Basque @ 4.07
5 89.9% Sephardic_Jewish + 10.1% Spanish_Valencia @ 4.09
6 91.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 8.8% Southwest_French @ 4.1
7 90.7% Sephardic_Jewish + 9.3% Spanish_Aragon @ 4.11
8 90.5% Sephardic_Jewish + 9.5% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 4.18
9 75.5% Cyprian + 24.5% French_Basque @ 4.2
10 71.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 28.8% West_Sicilian @ 4.26
11 91.7% Sephardic_Jewish + 8.3% Spanish_Cantabria @ 4.29
12 91% Sephardic_Jewish + 9% Spanish_Murcia @ 4.39
13 91.4% Sephardic_Jewish + 8.6% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 4.39
14 91.8% Sephardic_Jewish + 8.2% Spanish_Cataluna @ 4.43
15 89% Sephardic_Jewish + 11% North_Italian @ 4.45
16 91.3% Sephardic_Jewish + 8.7% Spanish_Extremadura @ 4.46
17 84% Sephardic_Jewish + 16% Greek @ 4.52
18 93.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 6.8% Sardinian @ 4.52
19 85.5% Sephardic_Jewish + 14.5% Tuscan @ 4.53
20 92.3% Sephardic_Jewish + 7.7% Portuguese @ 4.59

Greekscholar
08-13-2019, 03:38 PM
These will come out piece meal today as I have the chance. Take them for what they are worth, it is just K36 ran through Taxe de Similtude, certainly not as in depth as what other posters here can generate.

Here is me - NE Aegean (Fourni, Ikaria, Samos)

Greekscholar
08-13-2019, 04:37 PM
Kalymnos - 4/4 grandparents from the island.

Greekscholar
08-13-2019, 04:50 PM
Laconia, 4/4 grandparents. All listed great-grands from the same region. Of interest to me is the drop in similarity to Anatolian populations compared to the two island samples. You see some decrease with Minoan and Mycenaean as well, but seem more consistent than the Anatolian matches.

Greekscholar
08-13-2019, 06:46 PM
Constantinople Greek - 4/4 grandparents. Again, only small differences in the similarity score to Minoan and Mycenaean samples compared to the others.

Greekscholar
08-13-2019, 10:33 PM
I am doing a new PCA plot with a lot of Sicilians, South Italians, Greeks from all regions, and it will be very useful. I can show you on the same plot when it is done where Mycenaeans and Minoans plot.

If you are interested in any of the samples I have posted, feel free to PM me what the inclusion criteria are, and I can see if any meet it.

Sikeliot
08-13-2019, 10:37 PM
If you are interested in any of the samples I have posted, feel free to PM me what the inclusion criteria are, and I can see if any meet it.

I actually already have your Ikaria samples :)

What do you make of the results I posted above from Sicily? Which Aegeans do they compare best to? I ask because I was able to find people with lower than average North African, who also do not have any significant evidence of Norman or Lombard input.

We need a Central Sicily sample on these calculators and one focused on the inland regions... this is where you're going to find a lot of South Aegean-like people and elevated MENA.

Greekscholar
08-14-2019, 05:54 PM
I actually already have your Ikaria samples :)

What do you make of the results I posted above from Sicily? Which Aegeans do they compare best to? I ask because I was able to find people with lower than average North African, who also do not have any significant evidence of Norman or Lombard input.

We need a Central Sicily sample on these calculators and one focused on the inland regions... this is where you're going to find a lot of South Aegean-like people and elevated MENA.

Sample #1 grouped very close to my Dodecanese samples, more or less indistinguishable.
Sample #2 grouped closest to my NE_Aegean samples, but shifted more south towards Italian Jewish on the K15 PCA
Sample #3 didn't group very close. I got K15 coordinates of 574, 487 which pushed the sample south and west into the cline between Sicily and Italian Jewish. Not saying Greek Islanders don't map there, but none of the samples I have found do.

Sikeliot
08-14-2019, 10:09 PM
Sample #1 grouped very close to my Dodecanese samples, more or less indistinguishable.
Sample #2 grouped closest to my NE_Aegean samples, but shifted more south towards Italian Jewish on the K15 PCA
Sample #3 didn't group very close. I got K15 coordinates of 574, 487 which pushed the sample south and west into the cline between Sicily and Italian Jewish. Not saying Greek Islanders don't map there, but none of the samples I have found do.

I think #1 came close to Dodecanese because of having little North African and low North European. Typical inland Sicily result in the Messina/Caltanissetta/Palermo area IMO.

#2 and #3 probably shifted a bit toward Italian Jewish due to a higher Red Sea/SW Asian/Arabian type component possibly mediated through North Africa, and a closeness to North African Jews that I don't see in Dodecanese. With that said I do think that these samples have as much MENA shift as Dodecanese, just different in nature.

Greekscholar
08-14-2019, 11:36 PM
I think #1 came close to Dodecanese because of having little North African and low North European. Typical inland Sicily result in the Messina/Caltanissetta/Palermo area IMO.

#2 and #3 probably shifted a bit toward Italian Jewish due to a higher Red Sea/SW Asian/Arabian type component possibly mediated through North Africa, and a closeness to North African Jews that I don't see in Dodecanese. With that said I do think that these samples have as much MENA shift as Dodecanese, just different in nature.

Yes, I noticed right away that their NE Africa and SSA amounts were much higher than what I have seen in my Greek samples. One of these days I am going to figure out that scaled coordinates, nMonte, admixture utility that so many on here use. As mentioned, my family shows much higher North African DNA on many ethnicity tests, and I wonder if that is what tends to plot us a bit closer to the South Italy reference sample than other Island Greeks do. I wonder if those type of tests would help tease some of this out.

Sikeliot
08-15-2019, 12:08 AM
Yes, I noticed right away that their NE Africa and SSA amounts were much higher than what I have seen in my Greek samples. One of these days I am going to figure out that scaled coordinates, nMonte, admixture utility that so many on here use. As mentioned, my family shows much higher North African DNA on many ethnicity tests, and I wonder if that is what tends to plot us a bit closer to the South Italy reference sample than other Island Greeks do. I wonder if those type of tests would help tease some of this out.

What I have noticed in some Aegean islands is elevated Caucasus, but very low SW Asian/Red Sea. I wonder if this means the West Asian came over directly from Anatolia.

TonyC
08-15-2019, 12:11 AM
M762969

Greekscholar
08-15-2019, 02:26 PM
Thanks! You cluster very closely with the other Peloponnese samples I have. Oh, and I finally found some Cretans as well.

Sikeliot
08-28-2019, 12:06 PM
Thanks! You cluster very closely with the other Peloponnese samples I have. Oh, and I finally found some Cretans as well.

One of my Sicilians, a person with family from the northern part of Caltanissetta province and the neighboring inland part of Palermo, might come up similar to your Cretans. This is how they score on Eurogenes K36:

https://i.imgur.com/T6WxGan.png

Sikeliot
09-07-2019, 11:44 AM
Here is an interesting one who kind of deviates a bit.... Misilmeri, Palermo province, Sicily.

They *can* be modeled as slightly over half Levantine, the rest Iberian, but in many calculators, their Gedrosia/Caucasus is higher than average which causes them to be modeled as half Assyrian/Armenian, half Iberian.. Also, their NE European is extremely low, even for Sicilian standards.

What might explain the high Gedrosia element? Elymians? Iraqi Arab input under Arab rule? Misilmeri was founded under Arab rule but is located in what was the crossroads between Punic and Elymian land. But there is a high West Med element too which could be later North Italian repopulation of the area.

What is clear is this person can best be modeled, and usually is modeled, as half SW European, half Mesopotamian (Georgia Jew, Kurdish Jew, Azerbaijan Jew, Assyrian, Armenian, or Iraqi Arab).

Why?

MDLP K23:

# Population Percent
1 European_Early_Farmers 32.57
2 Caucasian 31.27
3 Near_East 10.68
4 European_Hunters_Gatherers 7.30 (THIS IS VERY LOW)
5 South_Central_Asian 7.07
6 North_African 4.04
7 Ancestral_Altaic 3.62
8 East_African 1.39


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Italian_Abruzzo_ @ 7.713834
2 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 9.748063
3 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 10.114085
4 Italian_Tuscan_ @ 10.712711
5 Sicilian_West_ @ 10.738846
6 Maltese_ @ 10.952646
7 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 11.906362
8 French_Jew_ @ 12.356748
9 Italian_Piedmont_ @ 12.383300
10 Sicilian_East_ @ 13.369584
11 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 13.553129
12 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 13.899245
13 Italian_Jew_ @ 14.339377
14 Turk_Jew_ @ 14.671576
15 Sicilian_Center_ @ 15.201029
16 Italian_Bergamo_ @ 15.430702
17 Moroccan_Jew_ @ 15.434264
18 Ashkenazi_ @ 15.660217
19 Romanian_Jew_ @ 16.276331
20 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 16.334942

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Druze_ +50% French_South_ @ 4.131718


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Druze_ +25% Spanish_Aragon_IBS_ +25% Spanish_Pais_Vasco_IBS_ @ 3.324175


Eurogenes:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 25.24
2 West_Med 22.16
3 North_Atlantic 19.41
4 West_Asian 15.92
5 Red_Sea 6.93
6 Baltic 6.87
7 Northeast_African 1.66
8 South_Asian 1.27
9 East_Asian 0.54

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_Abruzzo 4.8
2 East_Sicilian 5.63
3 Central_Greek 5.87
4 West_Sicilian 6.02
5 South_Italian 6.68
6 Greek_Thessaly 9.82
7 Tuscan 10.15
8 Ashkenazi 11.09
9 Sephardic_Jewish 12.1
10 Italian_Jewish 13.17
11 Algerian_Jewish 13.24
12 North_Italian 15.68
13 Tunisian_Jewish 16.2
14 Libyan_Jewish 16.53
15 Bulgarian 17.55
16 Romanian 19.01
17 Cyprian 19.02
18 Turkish 20.14
19 Lebanese_Muslim 21.25
20 Syrian 21.82

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 58.2% Lebanese_Muslim + 41.8% Southwest_French @ 2.82
2 51.3% Kurdish_Jewish + 48.7% Southwest_French @ 3.01
3 87.2% West_Sicilian + 12.8% Ossetian @ 3.26
4 50.3% Spanish_Cantabria + 49.7% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.3
5 56.7% Lebanese_Muslim + 43.3% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.39
6 54.3% Spanish_Extremadura + 45.7% Assyrian @ 3.45
7 88% West_Sicilian + 12% Georgian @ 3.49
8 52.6% Spanish_Galicia + 47.4% Assyrian @ 3.54
9 87.1% West_Sicilian + 12.9% Kabardin @ 3.55
10 87.9% West_Sicilian + 12.1% North_Ossetian @ 3.56
11 87.3% West_Sicilian + 12.7% Adygei @ 3.56
12 58.5% North_Italian + 41.5% Syrian @ 3.59
13 87.1% West_Sicilian + 12.9% Balkar @ 3.59
14 50.8% Assyrian + 49.2% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.6
15 64.6% North_Italian + 35.4% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.62
16 91.4% West_Sicilian + 8.6% Balochi @ 3.65
17 88.9% West_Sicilian + 11.1% Abhkasian @ 3.65
18 57.9% North_Italian + 42.1% Lebanese_Muslim @ 3.66
19 91.5% West_Sicilian + 8.5% Brahui @ 3.67
20 51.2% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 48.8% Assyrian @ 3.71


Dodecad K12b:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 30.89
2 Atlantic_Med 29.19
3 North_European 12.51
4 Southwest_Asian 11.19
5 Gedrosia 9.36
6 Northwest_African 4.67
7 East_African 1.57
8 Southeast_Asian 0.62

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 6.72
2 Sicilian (Dodecad) 6.91
3 C_Italian (Dodecad) 8.82
4 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 10.36
5 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 10.47
6 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 10.88
7 O_Italian (Dodecad) 11.25
8 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 11.52
9 Greek (Dodecad) 11.56
10 Tuscan (HGDP) 12.32
11 TSI30 (Metspalu) 12.98
12 N_Italian (Dodecad) 18.33
13 North_Italian (HGDP) 19.5
14 Cypriots (Behar) 21.08
15 Turkish (Dodecad) 21.82
16 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 22.68
17 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 23.18
18 Lebanese (Behar) 23.52
19 Romanians (Behar) 23.88
20 Turks (Behar) 24.01

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 50.6% Castilla_Y_Leon (1000Genomes) + 49.4% Georgia_Jews (Behar) @ 2.52
2 53.8% Canarias (1000Genomes) + 46.2% Georgia_Jews (Behar) @ 2.69
3 52.4% Murcia (1000Genomes) + 47.6% Georgia_Jews (Behar) @ 2.78
4 52.8% Extremadura (1000Genomes) + 47.2% Georgia_Jews (Behar) @ 2.83
5 52.7% Galicia (1000Genomes) + 47.3% Georgia_Jews (Behar) @ 2.84
6 52.5% Portuguese (Dodecad) + 47.5% Georgia_Jews (Behar) @ 2.88
7 52.7% Galicia (1000Genomes) + 47.3% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) @ 3.07
8 52.6% Galicia (1000Genomes) + 47.4% Assyrian (Dodecad) @ 3.13
9 52.4% Portuguese (Dodecad) + 47.6% Assyrian (Dodecad) @ 3.2
10 80.7% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 19.3% Argyll (1000Genomes) @ 3.2
11 50.7% Georgia_Jews (Behar) + 49.3% Spanish (Dodecad) @ 3.28
12 52.5% Portuguese (Dodecad) + 47.5% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) @ 3.31
13 52.5% Portuguese (Dodecad) + 47.5% Armenian (Dodecad) @ 3.31
14 80.1% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 19.9% Cornwall (1000Genomes) @ 3.33
15 50.1% Druze (HGDP) + 49.9% Extremadura (1000Genomes) @ 3.33
16 80.9% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 19.1% Irish (Dodecad) @ 3.35
17 81% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 19% Orcadian (HGDP) @ 3.36
18 80.4% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 19.6% British (Dodecad) @ 3.4
19 81.2% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 18.8% Orkney (1000Genomes) @ 3.42
20 50.5% Castilla_Y_Leon (1000Genomes) + 49.5% Assyrian (Dodecad) @ 3.43


HarappaWorld:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 30.85
2 Mediterranean 26.54
3 NE-Euro 16.53
4 SW-Asian 12.52
5 Baloch 11.28
6 San 1.61
7 Beringian 0.67

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 ashkenazy-jew (behar) 6.64
2 ashkenazi (harappa) 7.36
3 sephardic-jew (behar) 11.07
4 tuscan (1000genomes) 11.18
5 tuscan (hgdp) 11.64
6 morocco-jew (behar) 11.66
7 tuscan (hapmap) 12.2
8 turk-aydin (hodoglugil) 16.07
9 italian (hgdp) 19.15
10 bulgarian (yunusbayev) 19.83
11 romanian-a (behar) 20.51
12 cypriot (behar) 20.99
13 turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) 21.45
14 turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) 21.68
15 lebanese (behar) 22.83
16 turkish (harappa) 23.14
17 turk (behar) 23.19
18 romanian-b (behar) 24.01
19 armenian (harappa) 24.88
20 palestinian (harappa) 24.97

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 50% spaniard (1000genomes) + 50% georgia-jew (behar) @ 2.16
2 50.4% spaniard (1000genomes) + 49.6% assyrian (harappa) @ 2.59
3 50.8% spaniard (1000genomes) + 49.2% azerbaijan-jew (behar) @ 2.6
4 50.6% spaniard (behar) + 49.4% iraq-jew (behar) @ 2.79
5 61.7% italian (hgdp) + 38.3% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) @ 2.83
6 51% spaniard (1000genomes) + 49% iranian-jew (behar) @ 2.84
7 59.1% georgia-jew (behar) + 40.9% spain-basc (henn2012) @ 3.1
8 61.2% italian (hgdp) + 38.8% iraq-jew (behar) @ 3.12
9 50.1% spaniard (1000genomes) + 49.9% iraq-jew (behar) @ 3.17
10 68.3% tuscan (hapmap) + 31.7% iraqi-arab (harappa) @ 3.18
11 62.1% italian (hgdp) + 37.9% iranian-jew (behar) @ 3.18
12 51.2% spaniard (behar) + 48.8% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) @ 3.31
13 50.9% lebanese-druze (haber) + 49.1% spaniard (behar) @ 3.43
14 70.5% tuscan (1000genomes) + 29.5% iraqi-arab (harappa) @ 3.45
15 59.9% georgia-jew (behar) + 40.1% basque (hgdp) @ 3.46
16 50.6% spaniard (1000genomes) + 49.4% iraqi-mandaean (harappa) @ 3.53
17 54.6% armenian (harappa) + 45.4% spaniard (1000genomes) @ 3.62
18 56.8% italian (hgdp) + 43.2% palestinian (harappa) @ 3.62
19 68% tuscan (hapmap) + 32% palestinian (harappa) @ 3.62
20 57.4% italian (hgdp) + 42.6% iraqi-arab (harappa) @ 3.76


PuntDNA-L K13:

# Population Percent
1 SW_Europe 38.74
2 West_Asia 23.37
3 NE_Europe 17.04
4 SW_Asia 15.01
5 East_Africa 1.78
6 South_Asia 1.75
7 SE_Asia 1.4
8 West_Africa 0.34
9 NE_Asia 0.31
10 South_Africa 0.26

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_Sicilian 3.07
2 Ashkenazy_Jew 3.14
3 Italian_Abruzzo 5.09
4 Greek_Central 6.2
5 Sephardic_Jew 6.97
6 Greek_Thessaly 10.18
7 Albanian 10.74
8 Italian_Tuscan 11.97
9 Kosovar 12.11
10 Cypriot 15.23
11 Turkish 15.71
12 Bulgarian 16.8
13 Macedonian 17.15
14 Italian_Bergamo 17.67
15 Turkish_Kayseri 18.17
16 Turkish_Aydin 18.25
17 Romanian 19.03
18 Syrian 19.75
19 Montenegrin 20
20 Lebanese_Christian 20.15

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 97.1% Italian_Sicilian + 2.9% Cambodian @ 2.22
2 97.3% Italian_Sicilian + 2.7% Malayan @ 2.29
3 61.5% Syrian + 38.5% French_Basque @ 2.29
4 97.5% Italian_Sicilian + 2.5% Visayan @ 2.33
5 97.7% Italian_Sicilian + 2.3% Murut @ 2.33
6 97.7% Italian_Sicilian + 2.3% Dusun @ 2.34
7 90.5% Italian_Sicilian + 9.5% Romanian @ 2.34
8 93.4% Italian_Sicilian + 6.6% Moldavian @ 2.35
9 95% Italian_Sicilian + 5% Tatar @ 2.35
10 89.4% Italian_Sicilian + 10.6% Bulgarian @ 2.35
11 97.6% Italian_Sicilian + 2.4% Luzon @ 2.36
12 97.6% Italian_Sicilian + 2.4% Filipino @ 2.36
13 97.2% Italian_Sicilian + 2.8% Thai @ 2.36
14 94.4% Italian_Sicilian + 5.6% English @ 2.36
15 92% Italian_Sicilian + 8% Serbian @ 2.38
16 60.6% Lebanese_Druze + 39.4% French_Basque @ 2.38
17 94.8% Italian_Sicilian + 5.2% Utahn_European @ 2.38
18 95.4% Italian_Sicilian + 4.6% Norwegian @ 2.38
19 94.7% Italian_Sicilian + 5.3% Orcadian @ 2.39
20 94.1% Italian_Sicilian + 5.9% German_South @ 2.39



Their Eurogenes K36 map shows they are more distant from the South Italian references and the Greeks also.


https://i.imgur.com/6iKfs5Q.png

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian 4.44 Pct
Armenian 4.92 Pct
Basque 2.62 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro 0.15 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 2.44 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 0.59 Pct
East_Med 12.40 Pct
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian -
French 2.50 Pct
Iberian 9.52 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 14.64 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 12.25 Pct
North_African 2.04 Pct
North_Atlantic 6.46 Pct
North_Caucasian 7.98 Pct
North_Sea 2.32 Pct
Northeast_African 0.65 Pct
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian 0.57 Pct
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 3.26 Pct
West_Med 10.25 Pct

Greekscholar
09-08-2019, 10:19 PM
Yes, that is an interesting sample. The K36 is remarkably similar to mine, actually, in that there is no real strong match to any one continuum population. I just drop off in similarity much faster than this person does in Iberia and north of the Alps and Balkans. It's hard for me to conclude much based on those other calculators. Count them among the many that don't have enough/any Island Greek samples in their Oracles for me to make much sense of them. So, while it is interesting to model this person as 1/2 Iberia, 1/2 Assyrian, I wonder if better reference populations wouldn't lead to a more expected result in Mixed Mode.

Sikeliot
09-08-2019, 10:50 PM
Yes, that is an interesting sample. The K36 is remarkably similar to mine, actually, in that there is no real strong match to any one continuum population. I just drop off in similarity much faster than this person does in Iberia and north of the Alps and Balkans. It's hard for me to conclude much based on those other calculators. Count them among the many that don't have enough/any Island Greek samples in their Oracles for me to make much sense of them. So, while it is interesting to model this person as 1/2 Iberia, 1/2 Assyrian, I wonder if better reference populations wouldn't lead to a more expected result in Mixed Mode.

I think it means that they have a heavier Caucasus component than average.