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View Full Version : How do MyHeritage's and 23andme's criteria for the Ashkenazi category differ?



jetshop
08-02-2019, 08:52 AM
My 23andme kit (beta enabled) predictably gave me 99.1% Ashkenazi, 0.5% Broadly European, and 0.2% Broadly Levantine. But to my surprise, my MyHeritage kit puts me at ~82% Ashkenazi and ~18% Greek and South Italian. I uploaded my 23andme kit to MyHeritage back when the site was allowing you to do that for free, and the results are basically the same except they gave me a little bit of just "Italian" in addition to Greek and South Italian. Looking through my top matches on MyHeritage, I noticed that almost none of them score 100% Ashkenazi. (So far I have only found one person who has 100%.) Their reports have something else, usually including one or more of Mizrahi, Sephardi, locations from the MENA region or even Central Asia, or Greek and South Italian like I have. These additional percentages roughly range from 2-20%. Maybe some of them do have ancestors who belong to these groups, but the fact that I got so much Greek and have found other Ashkenazim who have had similar discrepancies between MyHeritage and 23andme makes me wonder a) what MyHeritage's model/range for Ashkenazi actually looks like and b) whether these additional groups MyHeritage is giving people actually point to some meaningful variation or geographic differences, and what those differences actually are.

Does anybody here have insight into these questions?

For what it's worth, I tried comparing myself to random South Italian, Sicilian, and Greek GEDmatch kits I found on Google and I did routinely get lots of matches in the 5-7 cM range with people from various Greek islands, especially the Peloponnese. But I got a lot of matches like that from other peoples in the Eastern Mediterannean so I don't know what the significance of that is...

StillWater
08-02-2019, 06:40 PM
I've noticed that the ones who do score 100% Ashkenazi on there are either from Central Europe or are regionally mixed. Link the page you got the Greek kits from. I'll compare myself as well.

jetshop
08-03-2019, 01:43 PM
I've noticed that the ones who do score 100% Ashkenazi on there are either from Central Europe or are regionally mixed. Link the page you got the Greek kits from. I'll compare myself as well.

This is what I found. I imagine somebody like Sikeliot knows where to find more. It looks like the kits at bottom all refer back to "unpublished data" gathered by DM Behar or somebody else involved with his papers.

H912436 Crete
M838603 Crete
A378287 Peloponnese
A097858 Grevena
CL6099358 Kefalonia
A843707 Peolopnnese
A684751 Icaria
M846042 Volos and Eubea
A684751 Icaria, Aegean
A318570 Kalymnos, Dodecanese
M179262 Karpathos, Dodecanese
A059192 Olympia and Kalymnos
A570896 Andros, Aegean
M053465 Chios, Aegean
A947163 Chios, Aegean
M168143 Chios, Aegean
A140718 Ikaria, Aegean
A484290 Symi, Dodecanese
M871606 Karpathos, Dodecanese

Z714983 GreeceCentr1
Z131291 GreeceCentr10
Z210352 GreeceCentr2
Z401858 GreeceCentr3
Z602601 GreeceCentr4
Z476541 GreeceCentr5
Z368850 GreeceCentr6
Z880378 GreeceCentr7
Z825068 GreeceCentr8
Z880891 GreeceCentr9
Z829678 GreeceThessaly1
Z407001 GreeceThessaly10
Z313992 GreeceThessaly2
Z376248 GreeceThessaly3
Z741721 GreeceThessaly4
Z580405 GreeceThessaly5
Z812683 GreeceThessaly6
Z260052 GreeceThessaly7
Z197487 GreeceThessaly9
Z090265 GreeceThessaly8
Z418934 GreeceMaced1
Z274631 GreeceMaced2
Z721721 GreeceMaced3
Z244127 GreeceMaced4
Z823091 GreeceMaced6
Z455687 GreeceMaced7
Z608982 GreeceMaced8
Z351478 GreecePelop1
Z659969 GreecePelop10
Z106701 GreecePelop3
Z280331 GreecePelop4
Z368114 GreecePelop5
Z482928 GreecePelop6
Z691528 GreecePelop7
Z686475 GreecePelop8

Claudio
08-03-2019, 02:48 PM
My 23andme kit (beta enabled) predictably gave me 99.1% Ashkenazi, 0.5% Broadly European, and 0.2% Broadly Levantine. But to my surprise, my MyHeritage kit puts me at ~82% Ashkenazi and ~18% Greek and South Italian. I uploaded my 23andme kit to MyHeritage back when the site was allowing you to do that for free, and the results are basically the same except they gave me a little bit of just "Italian" in addition to Greek and South Italian. Looking through my top matches on MyHeritage, I noticed that almost none of them score 100% Ashkenazi. (So far I have only found one person who has 100%.) Their reports have something else, usually including one or more of Mizrahi, Sephardi, locations from the MENA region or even Central Asia, or Greek and South Italian like I have. These additional percentages roughly range from 2-20%. Maybe some of them do have ancestors who belong to these groups, but the fact that I got so much Greek and have found other Ashkenazim who have had similar discrepancies between MyHeritage and 23andme makes me wonder a) what MyHeritage's model/range for Ashkenazi actually looks like and b) whether these additional groups MyHeritage is giving people actually point to some meaningful variation or geographic differences, and what those differences actually are.

Does anybody here have insight into these questions?

For what it's worth, I tried comparing myself to random South Italian, Sicilian, and Greek GEDmatch kits I found on Google and I did routinely get lots of matches in the 5-7 cM range with people from various Greek islands, especially the Peloponnese. But I got a lot of matches like that from other peoples in the Eastern Mediterannean so I don't know what the significance of that is...


Do you get these Aegean matches at the default 7cm threshold setting?

Claudio
08-03-2019, 02:49 PM
I've noticed that the ones who do score 100% Ashkenazi on there are either from Central Europe or are regionally mixed. Link the page you got the Greek kits from. I'll compare myself as well.


Nice Profile pic ;)

StillWater
08-03-2019, 02:52 PM
Of your set, I matched these for 5cm<segments <7cm:

M838603 Crete
A947163 Chios, Aegean
A140718 Ikaria, Aegean


Z602601 GreeceCentr4
Z880378 GreeceCentr7
Z197487 GreeceThessaly9
Z090265 GreeceThessaly8
Z274631 GreeceMaced2
Z721721 GreeceMaced3
Z823091 GreeceMaced6
Z368114 GreecePelop5
Z691528 GreecePelop7

Claudio
08-03-2019, 02:58 PM
Of your set, I matched these for 5cm<segments <7cm:

M838603 Crete
A947163 Chios, Aegean
A140718 Ikaria, Aegean


Z602601 GreeceCentr4
Z880378 GreeceCentr7
Z197487 GreeceThessaly9
Z090265 GreeceThessaly8
Z274631 GreeceMaced2
Z721721 GreeceMaced3
Z823091 GreeceMaced6
Z368114 GreecePelop5
Z691528 GreecePelop7

At the default Gedmatch Settings?

StillWater
08-03-2019, 03:00 PM
At the default Gedmatch Settings?

No, because the default sets the min segment to 7cm. I adjusted it to 5cm.

StillWater
08-03-2019, 03:01 PM
Nice Profile pic ;)

You're Michelangelo and I'm David.

Claudio
08-03-2019, 03:02 PM
No, because the default sets the min segment to 7cm. I adjusted it to 5cm.

Do you match any segments with these kits at default 7cm Setting?

StillWater
08-03-2019, 03:03 PM
Do you match any segments with these kits at default 7cm Setting?

Closest one was 6.8cm.

Claudio
08-03-2019, 03:05 PM
Closest one was 6.8cm.

Ok so No matching segments at 7cm setting? Correct?

StillWater
08-03-2019, 03:06 PM
Ok so No matching segments at 7cm setting? Correct?

Correct.

jetshop
08-03-2019, 03:21 PM
Do you get these Aegean matches at the default 7cm threshold setting?
No, but I got some matches at 6.6, 6.7, 6.8, and 6.9.

These are my results if I restrict the range to 5 cM and up:

A097858 Grevena 5.9 cM
CL6099358 Kefalonia, Ionian Islands 5.8 cM
A843707 Peolopnnese 5.3 cM
A684751 Icaria, Aegean 5.3 cM
A570896 Andros, Aegean 6.3 cM
A947163 Chios, Aegean 5.6 cM
Z825068 GreeceCentr8 6.6, 5.1 cM (MRCA 7.1)
Z376248 GreeceThessaly3 6.0 cM
Z418934 GreeceMaced1 5.4 cM
Z721721 GreeceMaced3 6.9 cM (MRCA 7.5)
Z659969 GreecePelop10 6.7, 5.0 cM (MRCA 7.1)
Z482928 GreecePelop6 6.8 cM
Z686475 GreecePelop8 5.1 cM (MRCA 7.7)

Is the MRCA predictor accurate at all? Seven generations seems quite recent...

Claudio
08-03-2019, 03:42 PM
No, but I got some matches at 6.6, 6.7, 6.8, and 6.9.

These are my results if I restrict the range to 5 cM and up:

A097858 Grevena 5.9 cM
CL6099358 Kefalonia, Ionian Islands 5.8 cM
A843707 Peolopnnese 5.3 cM
A684751 Icaria, Aegean 5.3 cM
A570896 Andros, Aegean 6.3 cM
A947163 Chios, Aegean 5.6 cM
Z825068 GreeceCentr8 6.6, 5.1 cM (MRCA 7.1)
Z376248 GreeceThessaly3 6.0 cM
Z418934 GreeceMaced1 5.4 cM
Z721721 GreeceMaced3 6.9 cM (MRCA 7.5)
Z659969 GreecePelop10 6.7, 5.0 cM (MRCA 7.1)
Z482928 GreecePelop6 6.8 cM
Z686475 GreecePelop8 5.1 cM (MRCA 7.7)

Is the MRCA predictor accurate at all? Seven generations seems quite recent...

It can be.
But I would not take a match as legitimately real unless you share segments at the 7cm default setting.

jetshop
08-04-2019, 11:37 AM
It can be.
But I would not take a match as legitimately real unless you share segments at the 7cm default setting.

So what does it mean that I have these matches but they may not be "legitimately real?" Is the match just purely a coincidence or is it something ancient that a huge amount of people share so it's not very significant? (I'm new to learning about how this all works, in case you couldn't tell. )

StillWater
08-04-2019, 05:28 PM
So what does it mean that I have these matches but they may not be "legitimately real?" Is the match just purely a coincidence or is it something ancient that a huge amount of people share so it's not very significant? (I'm new to learning about how this all works, in case you couldn't tell. )

The lower the segment length, the higher chance that it's a coincidence. It just happens that Gedmatch draws the line at 7cm.

Claudio
08-04-2019, 07:45 PM
So what does it mean that I have these matches but they may not be "legitimately real?" Is the match just purely a coincidence or is it something ancient that a huge amount of people share so it's not very significant? (I'm new to learning about how this all works, in case you couldn't tell. )

Probably the second as in ancient DNA Similarity.

Claudio
08-04-2019, 07:53 PM
The lower the segment length, the higher chance that it's a coincidence. It just happens that Gedmatch draws the line at 7cm.


This is true.
But Setting it lower than 7cm can result in fake segment matches.
The default settings of Gedmatch are set at 7cm for a reason.

Claudio
08-04-2019, 07:56 PM
If anything the fact that both of you are sharing segments at this low threshold probably is an indication of having shared ancient Aegean Admixture.

StillWater
08-04-2019, 08:02 PM
If anything the fact that both of you are sharing segments at this low threshold probably is an indication of having shared ancient Aegean Admixture.

And if we had reached the magical 7cm?

Claudio
08-04-2019, 08:25 PM
And if we had reached the magical 7cm?

Probably real.
23andMe for instance are also set with a 7cm minimum threshold as they do not consider lower CM matches to be legitimate.
Like I said earlier Gedmatch set there default setting at 7cm for a reason.

StillWater
08-04-2019, 08:41 PM
Probably real.
23andMe for instance are also set with a 7cm minimum threshold as they do not consider lower CM matches to be legitimate.
Like I said earlier Gedmatch set there default setting at 7cm for a reason.

What do you mean by "real"? Do you mean recently shared ancestry?

Claudio
08-04-2019, 08:50 PM
What do you mean by "real"? Do you mean recently shared ancestry?

Yes.
32167 lol
But as far as the MRCA estimate it’s only an estimate.
I’ve been told in the past that the MRCA estimate can be more in accurate when it is shared segments between people of different Jewish groups as endogamy can skew if the timing of the MRCA estimate.

StillWater
08-04-2019, 08:59 PM
Yes.
32167 lol
But as far as the MRCA estimate it’s only an estimate.
I’ve been told in the past that the MRCA estimate can be more in accurate when it is shared segments between people of different Jewish groups as endogamy can skew if the timing of the MRCA estimate.

This is true within Jewish groups, but should be fine between individuals of different Jewish sub-ethnicities, especially if one is from the Western cluster and the other is from the Eastern cluster.

Claudio
08-04-2019, 09:14 PM
This is true within Jewish groups, but should be fine between individuals of different Jewish sub-ethnicities, especially if one is from the Western cluster and the other is from the Eastern cluster.

Yes I was more pretaining to Western Jewish groups.

So technically the 7cm Iranian matches you have are legit and could be from a shared Mizrahi ancestor.
What was the MRCA on those Iranian matches?

StillWater
08-04-2019, 09:19 PM
Yes I was more pretaining to Western Jewish groups.

So technically the 7cm Iranian matches you have are legit and could be from a shared Mizrahi ancestor.
What was the MRCA on those Iranian matches?

I don't remember getting 7cm on Iranian matches, but I did get them on Mizrachi (Iraqi Jewish etc) matches. The MRCA estimates ranged from 6-7.5 gen.

Claudio
08-04-2019, 11:07 PM
I don't remember getting 7cm on Iranian matches, but I did get them on Mizrachi (Iraqi Jewish etc) matches. The MRCA estimates ranged from 6-7.5 gen.

I think a generation is roughly on average 25years.
So your probably looking at 200/250 year back,either they share Ashkenazi ancestor or you share Mizrahi ancestor.
Is there any history of Mizrahi/Ashkenazi intermarriage in Eastern Europe in last 200/250 years?
or do you think your having elevated west Asian is from much further back in time acquired Mizrahi ancestry?

StillWater
08-04-2019, 11:24 PM
I think a generation is roughly on average 25years.
So your probably looking at 200/250 year back,either they share Ashkenazi ancestor or you share Mizrahi ancestor.
Is there any history of Mizrahi/Ashkenazi intermarriage in Eastern Europe in last 200/250 years?
or do you think your having elevated west Asian is from much further back in time acquired Mizrahi ancestry?

It is said that Mizrachim migrated to one of my ancestral towns during the 1800's, but I'm skeptical of the story for a number of obvious reasons. However, documents apparently exist attesting to it. Also, we don't know if the segment is IBS or IBD. That aside, I don't entirely trust Gedmatch's MRCA estimates. I'm betting it's further back. As far as elevated West Asian, mine is. Whereas, my sister's seems far outside the typical Ashkenazi range. However, it may be from another Western Jewish source.

StillWater
08-04-2019, 11:40 PM
edit: wrong thread.

SlytherclawRavenpuff
02-24-2020, 11:09 PM
interesting you got less ashkenazi on my heritage. I got a lot more Ashkenazi on my heritage than 23 and me 69.8 for my heritage and 54.7 for 23and me

Cascio
02-25-2020, 07:23 PM
I get zero Ashkenazi on 23andMe and 2.7pc Ashkenazi on MyHeritage.

Which should I believe?

Claudio
02-26-2020, 10:42 AM
I get zero Ashkenazi on 23andMe and 2.7pc Ashkenazi on MyHeritage.

Which should I believe?

Myheritage should be updating sooner this year,i'd wait to see if it's still there post update,might dissapear.