PDA

View Full Version : R-U152>L2>Z367>L20... who else is lost?



jcmax68
08-05-2019, 06:47 PM
Hello, I'm new to Anthrogenica and this forum. I have done BigY700 on FTDNA (kit #843604). My full downtrace from R-U152 is R-U152>L2>Z367>L20>BY69713>FT20578. My terminal SNP is confirmed by my paternal uncle's BigY700 as well. Our MDKA was from Antrim Ireland, born around 1700. He may have been born in Scotland. I have a Y37 (GD3) match with same surname (though no known relation) who also traces to Northern Ireland in early 1800s. His line traces from there back to Midlothian area of Scotland. I have a Y67 (GD4) match who was adopted out of Aberdeen Scotland. He believes he has traced his paternal line by autosomal matching to a MacNeil ancestor in mid-1700s from western isle of Tiree Scotland (not far from Antrim where mine hail from). I also have a Y67 (GD3) match surnamed Pedersen but have never been able to make contact with him. Interestingly, another FTDNA member who is L20 traces to an Anders Gyldenstierne out of Denmark c. 1300. This Gyldenstierne line later had a descendant who line took the name Pedersen. This could imply a distant Norse or Norman connection, but that is speculative. I have one BigY match, surnamed Black at SNP BY69713. He also traces to Northern Ireland in mid-1800s. For what its worth, the last two blocks on my BigY700 at FTDNA are BY69713 (along with BY90902, BY133312, BY94313, FT24199, BY52376, BY146707, FT56478, BY133159, BY149308, BY127517, BY211642, BY77471, FT23737, BY148860, BY143658, BY118281); and my terminal (matched to paternal uncle) at FT20578 (along with FT15484, FT21819, AM00185, FT23317, FT16973, FT20849, FT17859, FT15594, FT26783, FT27199, FT20930, FT25232, FT15797, FT24397, FT15573). I'm having my sons custom SNP paneled at YSEQ. I know for sure that you can test BY69713 and FT20578 at YSEQ now. I've sent them all the listed SNPs so others may be available too. Just wondering if there are any other L20s out there wandering in the wilderness who wanted to compare notes. I feel like I've been spinning my wheels for nearly a year.

Titus Valerius
08-27-2019, 08:34 PM
Hello, I suggest you send your Bam File to www.yfull.com
Take a look at ytree of yfull

jcmax68
08-30-2019, 01:33 PM
Hello, I suggest you send your Bam File to www.yfull.com
Take a look at ytree of yfull

Well I had an amazingly informative reply I just lost when I tried to post :(

I'm on the L20 Big Tree. I know from kit #s there and in U152 project that SNP "neighbors" on U152 predominantly trace from Ireland/N. Ireland in 1700s/1800s. Though I have two neighbors who believe they trace to a Danish line from 1300s who came to East Anglia/Yorkshire. Northern Ireland MDKAs are not all that helpful since it was colonized from Scotland and England in 1600s.

I know L20 is all over Europe. How do we figure out discrete lines distinguishing say, you in Italy, from mine in Ulster?

jcmax68
10-18-2019, 02:13 PM
I was reading through Tibor Feher's 2010 paper that is linked on the FTDNA U152 page. My MDKA was from Antrim Ireland ~1700. I don't know, but suspect, he was Scotland transplant due to some Y37 matching (also same surname) who traces to East Lothian and a Y67 match from Aberdeen who believes his MDKA was from Tiree in the western isles of Scotland.

I am U152>L2>Z367>L20>BY69713>FT20578. I've done BigY and my results are up on Alex Williamson's Big Tree too (under L20).

Per Mr. Feher's 2010 paper my STR DYS 492 = 12. My YCAII = 19,23 (not 19,22) but my DYS 447 = 25 and my DYS 511 = 10. I am L20+ but negative for M228.2.

My question is, do you think these markers indicate a La Tene Briton origin? Or is it more likely a later vector arrival (Belgaic legionnaire, Anglo-Saxon, Dane or Norman)?

I realize nothing can be determined with absolute certainty, but I'm just curious if there is enough here to make some safe assumptions.

jcmax68
10-18-2019, 02:16 PM
According to Steve Gilbert at FTDNA, BY69713 dates to about 344AD. That's near tail end of Roman Britain period. Might that be indicative of a Cisalpine or Belgaic Gaul legionnaire entrance vector? Not sure how that could even be ascertained but the dating interesting.

falconson1
10-19-2019, 03:33 PM
Well I had an amazingly informative reply I just lost when I tried to post :(

I'm on the L20 Big Tree. I know from kit #s there and in U152 project that SNP "neighbors" on U152 predominantly trace from Ireland/N. Ireland in 1700s/1800s. Though I have two neighbors who believe they trace to a Danish line from 1300s who came to East Anglia/Yorkshire. Northern Ireland MDKAs are not all that helpful since it was colonized from Scotland and England in 1600s.

I know L20 is all over Europe. How do we figure out discrete lines distinguishing say, you in Italy, from mine in Ulster?

Your question will not be answered with any authority until L20 ancient DNA samples are tested. To date the earliest aDNA L20 samples are 2 from the Danish islands off Jutland (Viking Era circa 950 AD). None in the Bell Beaker samples (most U152 appear to be L2*), and the Lombard sample that was assigned to Z367 was, according to Alex, not even U152.

For the moment I will stand on other clues, in my case the surname was originally Falke which is Norman - Danish, the earliest documented ancestor from the coast of East Anglia in the 1300s, and the family "business" (in addition to land owning) of ship building. Seems consistent with a Danish Viking genesis, with earlier (Bronze or Iron Age) origins in perhaps the Switzerland region. I have proposed that much of the L20 came from Bourges, France to northern Italy - Switzerland and Southern Germany circa 600 BC - rationale given in my articles in the FTDNA U152 and Subclades Project pages. However, at this point no one can be sure, there is simply not enough data to make any definitive statements. So we wait until further data either supports or refutes the various hypotheses. Clearly I need to do a Yfull or other deeper testing than the Z367 Pack I took from FTDNA some years ago.

I should add that the two Danish L20 aDNA samples need to be tested for downstream SNPs. Not sure how I might convince Dr. Willerslev, or others in his circle, to do this though.

jcmax68
10-23-2019, 12:32 PM
Your question will not be answered with any authority until L20 ancient DNA samples are tested. To date the earliest aDNA L20 samples are 2 from the Danish islands off Jutland (Viking Era circa 950 AD). None in the Bell Beaker samples (most U152 appear to be L2*), and the Lombard sample that was assigned to Z367 was, according to Alex, not even U152.

For the moment I will stand on other clues, in my case the surname was originally Falke which is Norman - Danish, the earliest documented ancestor from the coast of East Anglia in the 1300s, and the family "business" (in addition to land owning) of ship building. Seems consistent with a Danish Viking genesis, with earlier (Bronze or Iron Age) origins in perhaps the Switzerland region. I have proposed that much of the L20 came from Bourges, France to northern Italy - Switzerland and Southern Germany circa 600 BC - rationale given in my articles in the FTDNA U152 and Subclades Project pages. However, at this point no one can be sure, there is simply not enough data to make any definitive statements. So we wait until further data either supports or refutes the various hypotheses. Clearly I need to do a Yfull or other deeper testing than the Z367 Pack I took from FTDNA some years ago.

I should add that the two Danish L20 aDNA samples need to be tested for downstream SNPs. Not sure how I might convince Dr. Willerslev, or others in his circle, to do this though.

Thanks, Dr. Faux. Is your Danish link via the Gyldenstierne line that also is associated with Pedersen? I saw that Viking DNA study, very interesting. I have one Y67 match named CJ Pedersen. I've never been able to establish contact with him. I know of one other L20 on FTDNA who traces to the Gyldenstierne/Pedersen line. His surname is MacBeth, but that is an adopted name. His Y genetic surname would have been variants of Ogar/Hagar. His line also came to East Anglia. I can get you his contact info and terminal SNP if you don't have it.

Escagedo
10-31-2019, 04:44 PM
I was sent over from another thread. I did the MorleyDNA test using my Ancestry raw. It reads R1b1a2a1a2b1, R1b-L2, L2/S139. WWhere does this place me at? Anything I can learn from this?
My paternal comes from Spain, Cantabria, Camargo, Santander, Maliaño. Any direction would be appreciated.

Amarelo
10-31-2019, 05:26 PM
I was sent over from another thread. I did the MorleyDNA test using my Ancestry raw. It reads R1b1a2a1a2b1, R1b-L2, L2/S139. WWhere does this place me at? Anything I can learn from this?
My paternal comes from Spain, Cantabria, Camargo, Santander, Maliaño. Any direction would be appreciated.



From which company did you take your testing, and which test you took? I had an experience with Morley some months ago and people told me it was unreliable, the only way to confirm it is through a specific Y testing.

Escagedo
10-31-2019, 06:12 PM
From which company did you take your testing, and which test you took? I had an experience with Morley some months ago and people told me it was unreliable, the only way to confirm it is through a specific Y testing.

I ran my AncestryDNA raw files through MorleyDNA. I don't have the cash to do what you mentioned at the moment. That said I didn't get any errors. So my question is that It reads R1b1a2a1a2b1, R1b-L2, L2/S139. What can I learn from this and where does this place me?

ArmandoR1b
10-31-2019, 07:46 PM
From which company did you take your testing, and which test you took? I had an experience with Morley some months ago and people told me it was unreliable, the only way to confirm it is through a specific Y testing.

Morley does reliably look for P312 and U152. L21 and L20 should also be reliable. I'll post in your thread explaining more about your results.

ArmandoR1b
10-31-2019, 07:48 PM
I ran my AncestryDNA raw files through MorleyDNA. I don't have the cash to do what you mentioned at the moment. That said I didn't get any errors. So my question is that It reads R1b1a2a1a2b1, R1b-L2, L2/S139. What can I learn from this and where does this place me?

Do you know how to look through your raw DNA file for position 14231292? If so, will you tell me what your raw data shows for allele1 at that position? If Morley didn't give you R1b-Z384 (R1b-Z383, R1b-L20) as a possible subclade then you are negative for L20 and your raw data will have G for allele1.

Amarelo
10-31-2019, 07:49 PM
I ran my AncestryDNA raw files through MorleyDNA. I don't have the cash to do what you mentioned at the moment. That said I didn't get any errors. So my question is that It reads R1b1a2a1a2b1, R1b-L2, L2/S139. What can I learn from this and where does this place me?



Well, If truth, L2 seem to be an upper subclade of R1b U152, apparently generaly related to italy. Only further testing might confirm deeper subclades.

Amarelo
10-31-2019, 07:56 PM
Do you know how to look through your raw DNA file for position 14231292? If so, will you tell me what your raw data shows for allele1 at that position?



I don't know, but may try to figure it out. I have living dna Y data, and Myheritage and Living Dna autossomal files. Thanks!

ArmandoR1b
10-31-2019, 08:05 PM
I don't know, but may try to figure it out. I have living dna Y data, and Myheritage and Living Dna autossomal files. Thanks!

The post you replied to was directed at Escagedo so he can look up L20 in his raw DNA. I replied to you about your DNA in your thread with the results from Morley DNA.

ArmandoR1b
10-31-2019, 08:29 PM
I was sent over from another thread. I did the MorleyDNA test using my Ancestry raw. It reads R1b1a2a1a2b1, R1b-L2, L2/S139. WWhere does this place me at? Anything I can learn from this?
My paternal comes from Spain, Cantabria, Camargo, Santander, Maliaño. Any direction would be appreciated.

How far back do you want to go? P312 and it's subclades, including U152 and L2, didn't appear in Western Europe until the Bronze Age. If that interests you then I would read the Bell Beaker thread that R.Rocca started at https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?16234-Bell-Beaker-Archaeology-and-Ancient-DNA

Escagedo
10-31-2019, 10:16 PM
I do not know how to look for position 14231292. But I'd like to figure it out so you can give me an idea here. Is there a program that I would need to view the raw files?

Also I'm reading up on the link you added. Yes I'm interested in learning. Of coarse I understand it's a big subject but I can dig into it little by little. Thanks in advance.

Escagedo
10-31-2019, 10:35 PM
Well, If truth, L2 seem to be an upper subclade of R1b U152, apparently generaly related to italy. Only further testing might confirm deeper subclades.

Thank you. I appreciate it I'm trying to start exploring this and I appreciate it.

ArmandoR1b
10-31-2019, 10:58 PM
I do not know how to look for position 14231292. But I'd like to figure it out so you can give me an idea here. Is there a program that I would need to view the raw files?
Excel or Google Sheets is one way. You could also go back to https://ytree.morleydna.com/ then when you choose ISOGG tree or Experimental tree there is a window with SNPs in between commas. If you copy and paste that into a text editor then search for L20 you can see a - or a + after it. If it is in there and has a - then you are negative for L20.


Also I'm reading up on the link you added. Yes I'm interested in learning. Of coarse I understand it's a big subject but I can dig into it little by little. Thanks in advance.
You're welcome.

Escagedo
10-31-2019, 11:15 PM
Examining: R1b1a2a1a2b1 [R1b-L2]
This suggested classification does not account for the following positive SNPs (try the experimental tree):

This is what I found PF:14231292(A|G) from the question asked before. I don't see any minus or plus. Maybe on the page prior. I will check

Osiris
10-31-2019, 11:28 PM
While L2 started off as a single guy living thousands of years ago his descendants have managed to spread pretty far and wide across Europe. There are locations of higher concentration but that just means your ancestor was slightly more likely to come from there than somewhere else. Here are some websites to see what L2 testers there are and a little about them. Also what branches exist below L2 which are possiibly your branches.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/R;name=R-L2
https://yfull.com/tree/R-L2/
http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=437

Escagedo
10-31-2019, 11:29 PM
and this?

,L187-,L190-,L194-,L2+,L20-,L201-,L21-,L210-,L212-,L213-,

Escagedo
10-31-2019, 11:32 PM
While L2 started off as a single guy living thousands of years ago his descendants have managed to spread pretty far and wide across Europe. There are locations of higher concentration but that just means your ancestor was slightly more likely to come from there than somewhere else. Here are some websites to see what L2 testers there are and a little about them. Also what branches exist below L2 which are possiibly your branches.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/R;name=R-L2
https://yfull.com/tree/R-L2/
http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=437

Awesome, thank you, I will read and enjoy.

ArmandoR1b
10-31-2019, 11:32 PM
and this?

,L187-,L190-,L194-,L2+,L20-,L201-,L21-,L210-,L212-,L213-,

So you are definitely negative for L20.

Escagedo
10-31-2019, 11:41 PM
So you are definitely negative for L20.

What does that mean though, being negative for L20? I mean I know what "negative" is but in the context of a difference from L2? Maybe a dumb question.

Escagedo
11-01-2019, 09:22 AM
Today I came across another older thread where you mention you and your descendants are from the North of Spain. If I did not mention it before, my paternal line is from Maliaño, Santander, Camargo area. The Escagedo name is rare so it's been a good and bad thing while doing my tree research. Good because I can target a more refined investigation but bad because it is also limited. Talking with a cousin in Santander, She calls herself, us, Pasiegos from the Valles Pasiegos as well as Montañeses. I can go back and verify my paternal tree to about the 1830s. Other documents online show my last name in the 1200s but I can't connect that with 1800s as of yet. The Escagedo's seemed to have crossed with Salmon surnames a lot through the centuries. So I have a famous historian in my direct line, from Maliaño, uncle to my paternal grandfather, by the name of Mateo Escagedo Salmon.
On my maternal it goes back to Málaga as well as the Canary Islands, by surnames of Gutierrez and Jimenez.

ArmandoR1b
11-01-2019, 02:13 PM
What does that mean though, being negative for L20? I mean I know what "negative" is but in the context of a difference from L2? Maybe a dumb question.

It's not a dumb question in the least bit. You are positive for a lot of SNPs downstream from L2 but the L20 branch is not among them. So you are positive for one of the other known subclades or you belong to one that has not yet been discovered.

SNP are kind of like a direct paternal family tree but with SNP names instead of ancestors names and several generations missing between ancestors (SNPs). So finding negative SNPs downstream from known positive SNPs helps to keep a focus on the SNPs inherited from the ancestors.

If you go to https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-L2/ then you can see which branches, except for the L20 branch, that you are possibly positive for. The U152 Superclade test for $99 at https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=38288 would help find out if you are positive for one of those branches.

The participation rate at FTDNA for Big Y outside of the Isles is low so there are a lot of subclades not yet discovered and therefore we can't step back every 500 years or so to see where each of our positive branches are more common. The ancient DNA specimens are also degraded and most times don't provide enough coverage of subclades downstream from L2. There is also a limited number of ancient specimens that can be tested so that is another obstacle in finding more about a specific Y-DNA lineage.

Escagedo
11-01-2019, 02:24 PM
That was very informative for me in explaining how to think of the Y Tree in contrast. I will look into testing as soon as I am able. In the meantime I will look at the info and links you and others have share. Thank you so much!

jcmax68
11-01-2019, 02:31 PM
What does that mean though, being negative for L20? I mean I know what "negative" is but in the context of a difference from L2? Maybe a dumb question.

It means you are a different subclade below L2 than L20. Right now there are 540 known subclades under L2 (i.e. more recent mutations off of that SNP). 210 subclades are under Z49. 152 are under Z367. There are several dozen smaller lines and splits besides those two bigger ones too. So if L2 is as refined as your analysis is currently (look through all results and find all your + SNPs), your highest probability follow on test is to see if you are Z49 or Z367. If you are neither of those, then you are presumably one of the smaller branches (or a new sub-branch not yet identified). Hope this helps. If I've confused you just let me know.

ArmandoR1b
11-01-2019, 02:33 PM
Today I came across another older thread where you mention you and your descendants are from the North of Spain. If I did not mention it before, my paternal line is from Maliaño, Santander, Camargo area. The Escagedo name is rare so it's been a good and bad thing while doing my tree research. Good because I can target a more refined investigation but bad because it is also limited. Talking with a cousin in Santander, She calls herself, us, Pasiegos from the Valles Pasiegos as well as Montañeses. I can go back and verify my paternal tree to about the 1830s. Other documents online show my last name in the 1200s but I can't connect that with 1800s as of yet. The Escagedo's seemed to have crossed with Salmon surnames a lot through the centuries. So I have a famous historian in my direct line, from Maliaño, uncle to my paternal grandfather, by the name of Mateo Escagedo Salmon.
On my maternal it goes back to Málaga as well as the Canary Islands, by surnames of Gutierrez and Jimenez.

My ancestors in the direct paternal line are from the North of Spain. I am not. Cantabros have been called Montañeses for a long time. I have studied quite a few lineages and I have seen that in documents from the colonial period. Escagedo exists in 0.18% of the population of Cantabria according to INE.es at https://www.ine.es/widgets/nombApell/index.shtml#. You would be extremely lucky to find other males with your surname that would be interested in Y-DNA testing or even Spaniards, even those without your surname, living in the municipio of Camargo, Cantabria or even Santander, Cantabria. The interest just isn't very strong and then there is the cost that reduces interest.

Escagedo
11-01-2019, 02:53 PM
Yes, I don't know why but I'm always interested in topics folks could care little for. Even beyond this topic of Ancestry and DNA.

Escagedo
11-01-2019, 02:55 PM
Thank you for this explanation! Of coarse I will be searching what all those subclades mean and just enjoy the experience of learning. I have some homework to do for sure.

Ravai
11-02-2019, 09:10 AM
Hello, I am also R1b> L2 and under this one I am BY3485. I am also Spanish, from Seville, Andalusia. My genealogical research has taken me to the year 1609 in the Republic of Genoa in present-day Italy. And my genetic study leads me to think that the origins of BY3485 are somewhere in Switzerland, probably along the upper Rhine, near Bavaria, where the Helvetian tribes lived.

Regards

Escagedo
11-02-2019, 03:49 PM
Hello, I am also R1b> L2 and under this one I am BY3485. I am also Spanish, from Seville, Andalusia. My genealogical research has taken me to the year 1609 in the Republic of Genoa in present-day Italy. And my genetic study leads me to think that the origins of BY3485 are somewhere in Switzerland, probably along the upper Rhine, near Bavaria, where the Helvetian tribes lived.

Regards

Very interesting! I'm still becoming familiar with the R1b L2 and the Y haplogroup info in general. It's great you can go back in your tree to 1609. Are their any online tree or surname sites for research that you recommend that are not the common ones folks know about already?

jcmax68
11-04-2019, 03:38 PM
Hello, I am also R1b> L2 and under this one I am BY3485. I am also Spanish, from Seville, Andalusia. My genealogical research has taken me to the year 1609 in the Republic of Genoa in present-day Italy. And my genetic study leads me to think that the origins of BY3485 are somewhere in Switzerland, probably along the upper Rhine, near Bavaria, where the Helvetian tribes lived.

Regards

BY3485 as a subclade of U152 and L2 is indeed likely to have originated somewhere in the upper Rhine alpine region. I looked at the public haplotree on FTDNA, and just so you know, there are twelve subclades below BY3485. You may be on of those downtrace subclades, or another independent line (you'd have to get something like FTDNA's BigY700 done to know for sure. If interested, these are the current known downtrace sublclades below BY3485 (some of these are nested under others but I can't really draw the tree to show how the fit): BY14171, BY38752, BY31164, BY3484, BY3478, BY3481, BY78074, BY989925, BY14173, BY88639, FGC63181, FGC63197.

ArmandoR1b
11-04-2019, 06:53 PM
Are their any online tree or surname sites for research that you recommend that are not the common ones folks know about already?

For research in Cantabria you need to call or visit the parish church. Online indexes don't exist for provinces outside of the Basque country.

ArmandoR1b
11-04-2019, 07:40 PM
BY3485 as a subclade of U152 and L2 is indeed likely to have originated somewhere in the upper Rhine alpine region. I looked at the public haplotree on FTDNA, and just so you know, there are twelve subclades below BY3485. You may be on of those downtrace subclades, or another independent line (you'd have to get something like FTDNA's BigY700 done to know for sure. If interested, these are the current known downtrace sublclades below BY3485 (some of these are nested under others but I can't really draw the tree to show how the fit): BY14171, BY38752, BY31164, BY3484, BY3478, BY3481, BY78074, BY989925, BY14173, BY88639, FGC63181, FGC63197.

It looks like he has already had a Big Y test. See the bottom left of http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=1579 That would mean he is positive for BY14173 and is one of the two with the flag from Italy at https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y22190/

Dimanto
11-04-2019, 09:32 PM
MorleyDNA gave me this R1b1a2a1a2b: U152/PF6570/S28 based on my 23andme v3, RAW data which is in line with what 23andme predicted for both me and my father. However with AncestryDNA RAW data, MorleyDNA predicted something else, so I'm not sure how reliable this test is.

ArmandoR1b
11-05-2019, 05:50 AM
MorleyDNA gave me this R1b1a2a1a2b: U152/PF6570/S28 based on my 23andme v3, RAW data which is in line with what 23andme predicted for both me and my father. However with AncestryDNA RAW data, MorleyDNA predicted something else, so I'm not sure how reliable this test is.

The subclade of U152 from 23andme is reliable. Your AncestryDNA RAW data might have a false positive or a subclade of U152. What did MorleyDNA give you from your AncestryDNA RAW data? Can you post a screenshot or copy and/or paste all of the SNPs from the MorleyDNA page just prior to the prediction?

Dimanto
11-07-2019, 01:05 AM
The subclade of U152 from 23andme is reliable. Your AncestryDNA RAW data might have a false positive or a subclade of U152. What did MorleyDNA give you from your AncestryDNA RAW data? Can you post a screenshot or copy and/or paste all of the SNPs from the MorleyDNA page just prior to the prediction?

I'll send you a PM, thnx.

jcmax68
11-08-2019, 08:31 PM
Pretty cool stuff. Just got FTDNA BigY700 match confirmation of terminal SNP match with a distant cousin that we both knew from paper genealogy and our independent family histories that we had to be descendants off a common male ancestor in colonial North Carolina. Interesting that our terminal SNP is same since there is almost 300 years back to our MRCA. Since SNPs are estimated to mutate every 88 years, there was a chance we might be a few SNPs off. But as it turns out, his terminal SNP is the same as mine, my paternal uncle, and my two sons. It is really an amazing feeling to see that terminal SNP confirmation, instantly bridging almost three centuries of generational gap. I suppose FTDNA may still be analyzing so maybe a further split will manifest. There are 16 SNPs in my terminal SNP (FT20578) block.

ArmandoR1b
11-08-2019, 09:17 PM
Pretty cool stuff. Just got FTDNA BigY700 match confirmation of terminal SNP match with a distant cousin that we both knew from paper genealogy and our independent family histories that we had to be descendants off a common male ancestor in colonial North Carolina. Interesting that our terminal SNP is same since there is almost 300 years back to our MRCA. Since SNPs are estimated to mutate every 88 years, there was a chance we might be a few SNPs off. But as it turns out, his terminal SNP is the same as mine, my paternal uncle, and my two sons. It is really an amazing feeling to see that terminal SNP confirmation, instantly bridging almost three centuries of generational gap. I suppose FTDNA may still be analyzing so maybe a further split will manifest. There are 16 SNPs in my terminal SNP (FT20578) block.

The average is just that, an average. It means some paternal lineages will have a lot more years per SNP and other paternal lineages have a lot less per SNP. The average is taken from a large pool of people but it can't be taken as a fact that the average will apply to all lineages. By the way do you have any private SNPs? If so, you could still have the same years per SNP as the average. The terminal SNP would then just be the SNP used as the name of the block of SNPs shared by just you and your distant cousin. That is normally how terminal SNPs work.

Also take a look at this post and the discussion that went along with it - https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?16412-Big-Y-700&p=604007&viewfull=1#post604007

falconson1
11-08-2019, 09:20 PM
Ok, I'll bite. FTDNA now has its Thanksgiving sale on at a very reasonable price (for those who have taken the Y-67 STR testing). I will submit my L20 from East Anglia, England, from a land owning ship building family with a Scandinavian name (Falke) to the "ultimate scrutiny". However, until the BAM file for VK373, Viking Era L20 from the Margaryan et al., 2019 study is available (perhaps spring 2020 - about when I might expect my BigY700 results I guess) I am still going to assume that this fellow from the Galgadil Cemetery, Funen, Denmark is my many greats great grandfather ;) We shall see - maybe.

Ravai
11-11-2019, 03:42 PM
BY3485 as a subclade of U152 and L2 is indeed likely to have originated somewhere in the upper Rhine alpine region. I looked at the public haplotree on FTDNA, and just so you know, there are twelve subclades below BY3485. You may be on of those downtrace subclades, or another independent line (you'd have to get something like FTDNA's BigY700 done to know for sure. If interested, these are the current known downtrace sublclades below BY3485 (some of these are nested under others but I can't really draw the tree to show how the fit): BY14171, BY38752, BY31164, BY3484, BY3478, BY3481, BY78074, BY989925, BY14173, BY88639, FGC63181, FGC63197.

That's right, I also think that it must come from the Alpine region of the Upper Rhine.
Article written by me.
http://famiglia-rabai.blogspot.com/2019/02/genesis-del-haplogrupo-by3485.html

Best regards