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mpatsibihugu89
08-10-2019, 04:57 PM
32323

Espoir
08-14-2019, 04:16 AM
32323

Thanks for this insightful post. Can u also share maternal haplogroups chart?

mpatsibihugu89
08-24-2019, 02:52 PM
Thanks for this insightful post. Can u also share maternal haplogroups chart?

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?18015-Tutsi-Haplogroups-(Rwanda-Burundi-DRC-amp-Uganda)

mpatsibihugu89
05-09-2022, 05:12 PM
Updated chart

49518

P.S: A1b1..is A-m13 or A1b1-M118 as 23andme displays it.

Ronalawe
05-12-2022, 06:48 PM
Updated chart

49518

P.S: A1b1..is A-m13 or A1b1-M118 as 23andme displays it.

Really interesting!It really shows How Tutsis have Cushitic, Nilotic and Bantu ancestry but do you think this chart is representative of Tutsis paternal haplogroups? As you probably know, socioeconomic and more factors can make commercial dna results of a population not really representative of this same population. For example Tutsi from the Royal family might be more likely to purchase these tests and considering the haplogroups diversity amongst the Tutsis, its probably affecting the results. Testing random people from a particular group is better to get a clearer picture of their genetics. So far, DNA studies on Tutsis Paternal lineages seem to indicate a lower incidence of Cushitic related haplogroups and a greater of Bantu ones, it's yet to be explained.

mpatsibihugu89
05-12-2022, 07:08 PM
Really interesting!It really shows How Tutsis have Cushitic, Nilotic and Bantu ancestry but do you think this chart is representative of Tutsis paternal haplogroups? As you probably know, socioeconomic and more factors can make commercial dna results of a population not really representative of this same population. For example Tutsi from the Royal family might be more likely to purchase these tests and considering the haplogroups diversity amongst the Tutsis, its probably affecting the results. Testing random people from a particular group is better to get a clearer picture of their genetics. So far, DNA studies on Tutsis Paternal lineages seem to indicate a lower incidence of Cushitic related haplogroups and a greater of Bantu ones, it's yet to be explained.

You are right. Most papers on other populations seem more or less accurate. But our case seems odd. The only paper I have seen with tutsi male haplos does not line up with our autosomal DNA. One sample from Rwanda does not have a single E-M35 or E-M293 out 90+ ppl. I couldn't find anything on their sampling location or methods. I know my sample wouldn't pass the scientific criteria for a study but it is data nonetheless. And oddly enough, it seems to align with autosomal. As opposed to this paper (http://https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182266/) which has majority E-m2 and some B for tutsi Y-dna. Although , Tishkoff found 2 E-m293 out 9 individuals in Burundi. Personally, I don't trust that sample in Luis et al.

Ronalawe
05-12-2022, 07:25 PM
You are right. Most papers on other populations seem more or less accurate. But our case seems odd. The only paper I have seen with tutsi male haplos does not line up with our autosomal DNA. One sample from Rwanda does not have a single E-M35 or E-M293 out 90+ ppl. I couldn't find anything on their sampling location or methods. I know my sample wouldn't pass the scientific criteria for a study but it is data nonetheless. And oddly enough, it seems to align with autosomal. As opposed to this paper (http://https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182266/) which has majority E-m2 and some B for tutsi Y-dna. Although , Tishkoff found 2 E-m293 out 9 individuals in Burundi. Personally, I don't trust that sample in Luis et al.

True, this sample seem to align with autosomal. Kikuyus have been tested and they had 19% E1b1b, not very much if we take into account their high cushitic dna on the autosomal level. The same thing could have happened with Tishkoff sample but not seeing a single E-M35 or E-293 in Luis et al. seems very surprising especially with the diverse results you obtained with your sample. Maybe you should try to contact them (if possible)

Srananšao
05-12-2022, 09:54 PM
Really interesting!It really shows How Tutsis have Cushitic, Nilotic and Bantu ancestry but do you think this chart is representative of Tutsis paternal haplogroups? As you probably know, socioeconomic and more factors can make commercial dna results of a population not really representative of this same population. For example Tutsi from the Royal family might be more likely to purchase these tests and considering the haplogroups diversity amongst the Tutsis, its probably affecting the results. Testing random people from a particular group is better to get a clearer picture of their genetics. So far, DNA studies on Tutsis Paternal lineages seem to indicate a lower incidence of Cushitic related haplogroups and a greater of Bantu ones, it's yet to be explained.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't the most parsimonious explanation be Bantu men consistently taking Cushitic women?

Ronalawe
05-13-2022, 04:49 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't the most parsimonious explanation be Bantu men consistently taking Cushitic women?

Yes if the high occurrence of Bantu Ydna amongst the Tutsis(+80%) in Luis et al study is indeed correct but the sample right here indicates a way more diverse set of Ydna. Haplogroups carried by Proto Bantu are found in around 35% of these tested Tutsis, still significant but not sufficient to confirm your hypothesis.

mpatsibihugu89
05-16-2022, 04:56 PM
Updated chart

49518

P.S: A1b1..is A-m13 or A1b1-M118 as 23andme displays it.

49604

mpatsibihugu89
10-09-2022, 02:49 PM
Yes if the high occurrence of Bantu Ydna amongst the Tutsis(+80%) in Luis et al study is indeed correct but the sample right here indicates a way more diverse set of Ydna. Haplogroups carried by Proto Bantu are found in around 35% of these tested Tutsis, still significant but not sufficient to confirm your hypothesis.

What would you deduct from E-M2 branches being more diverse than the others? E-M293 so far has a tmrca of 3700ybp under E-CTS2297, the branch from which tutsis seem to descend.

Ronalawe
10-24-2022, 05:09 PM
What would you deduct from E-M2 branches being more diverse than the others? E-M293 so far has a tmrca of 3700ybp under E-CTS2297, the branch from which tutsis seem to descend.

Sorry for the late answer. I think E-M2 branches are diverse amongst other Bantu speakers from the region as well so it's not unique to the Tutsis. Farmers are usually more diverse on their Ydna than pastoralists, initial proto-Bantu speakers already carried a diverse set of branches when they met cushitic speakers who themselves went through several founder effects and ended up with a majority of E-M293. This farmer/pastoralist contrast is visible in the Horn too where Somalis carry less branches than Oromo, Amhara farmers and also along the Sahel where despite being autosomaly similar, different groups of fulanis have drastic differences in their Ydna frequencies. If anything it shows how the Bantu related Ydna contribution to the Tutsis wasn't the result of a few men(founder effect) like it was amongst the Anyuak (only E1b1a7) but it happened over centuries of contact with Bantus and maybe Nilotized Bantus(Kenyan Luos type).