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J Man
08-11-2019, 04:14 AM
I am curious about the status of the Albanian tribe or region of Rei of Malsia e Madhe in the Shkodr area. Some sources seem to say that Rei is a tribe of polyphyletic origin while another source says that Rei is not truly a tribe and is more of a region. Robert Elsie in his book entitled ''The Tribes of Albania'' describes Rei as a tribe but notes that they seem to be of polyphyletic origin ans thus not a ''fis'' in the sense of a tribe claiming ancestor from a common male line ancestor. He does however describe Rei as a tribal region and mentions that they belong to a bajrak that also includes the Lohja tribe. Franz Baron Nopcsa mentions that the Rei are a small tribe of polyphyletic origin as well yet a commentator on his work a researcher named Ndoc Kamsi says that Rei is not actually a tribe but describes Rei as a ''mountain'' or region. I will link some sources about this topic below. I can't read or speak Albanian so I am using Google Translate for the Nopcsa article so maybe something gets lost in the translation. I am not sure. So is Rei a true tribe or more so of a region of Malsia e Madhe?


https://books.google.ca/books?id=i2IpDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA91&lpg=PA91&dq=The+Tribes+of+Albania+Reci&source=bl&ots=7f6xX5qnN3&sig=ACfU3U0-us8Q23vovqiIFHf3o340CSJ_PA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjI0cqz-fnjAhVSvZ4KHamIA9QQ6AEwD3oECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=The%20Tribes%20of%20Albania%20Reci&f=false

https://gazetamapo.al/topografia-dhe-organizimi-i-fisit-ne-shqiperine-e-veriut-iii/

Kelmendasi
08-11-2019, 11:31 AM
As far as I know Rei was usually considered to be one of the smaller tribes of Malesi e Madhe. Oral traditions claim that the Rei stem from a village located around the Bojana river called Re and that they supposedly fled to Malesi and came under the protection of the Shkreli. However apparently there are other stories which claim that they are of mixed origins, made up of families originally from the Shllaku and Pulti regions of north Albania.

IMO Rei was more of a tribe than just a region. They operated as a tribe and even had Bajraktars as well as founding legends.

J Man
08-11-2019, 02:42 PM
As far as I know Rei was usually considered to be one of the smaller tribes of Malesi e Madhe. Oral traditions claim that the Rei stem from a village located around the Bojana river called Re and that they supposedly fled to Malesi and came under the protection of the Shkreli. However apparently there are other stories which claim that they are of mixed origins, made up of families originally from the Shllaku and Pulti regions of north Albania.

IMO Rei was more of a tribe than just a region. They operated as a tribe and even had Bajraktars as well as founding legends.

Thank you for your thoughts on this topic. I am inclined to agree with you to be honest in that I think that Rei is more so a tribe and not just a region. Personally I tend to make a distinction between a ''tribe'' and the Albanian word ''fis'' which I see as more of a ''clan''. A ''tribe'' is a group of people who work, support and live together and share similar cultural traits, traditions, language/dilaect etc. whereas a ''clan'' is more like a big extended family that races back to a single common ancestor. I think that ''tribes'' are generally made up of a variety of ''clans''. Sometimes a tribe is made up of one large clan or dominated by that clan of single origin that in time can divide into smaller sub-clans whereas in other cases a tribe can be made up of a variety of clans or families of different origin that came together in the past because of shared values, culture, language etc and became a distinct group even though they are made up of groups that originally had different origins. In this way I agree with Robert Elsie and Nopcsa in that I think that the Albanian tribes can be of monophyletic (of single origin) or polyphyletic (of multiple origin).

Kelmendasi
08-11-2019, 03:17 PM
Thank you for your thoughts on this topic. I am inclined to agree with you to be honest in that I think that Rei is more so a tribe and not just a region. Personally I tend to make a distinction between a ''tribe'' and the Albanian word ''fis'' which I see as more of a ''clan''. A ''tribe'' is a group of people who work, support and live together and share similar cultural traits, traditions, language/dilaect etc. whereas a ''clan'' is more like a big extended family that races back to a single common ancestor. I think that ''tribes'' are generally made up of a variety of ''clans''. Sometimes a tribe is made up of one large clan or dominated by that clan of single origin that in time can divide into smaller sub-clans whereas in other cases a tribe can be made up of a variety of clans or families of different origin that came together in the past because of shared values, culture, language etc and became a distinct group even though they are made up of groups that originally had different origins. In this way I agree with Robert Elsie and Nopcsa in that I think that the Albanian tribes can be of monophyletic (of single origin) or polyphyletic (of multiple origin).
I agree with you. A good example is the Albanian tribe Gruda which was located in southeastern Montenegro, around Tuzi. The tribe was made up of various families some of which had completely different places of origin. Many of the families claimed origin from an area called Suma in north Albania whilst some other families claimed origin from Berishe and even Herzegovina. However, every family identifies as being part of Gruda.

J Man
08-11-2019, 03:47 PM
I agree with you. A good example is the Albanian tribe Gruda which was located in southeastern Montenegro, around Tuzi. The tribe was made up of various families some of which had completely different places of origin. Many of the families claimed origin from an area called Suma in north Albania whilst some other families claimed origin from Berishe and even Herzegovina. However, every family identifies as being part of Gruda.

Yes indeed Gruda is a good example of a polyphyletic (multiple origin) tribe.

Also do you know if the people of Rei are classified as Malsors?

Kelmendasi
08-11-2019, 04:31 PM
Yes indeed Gruda is a good example of a polyphyletic (multiple origin) tribe.

Also do you know if the people of Rei are classified as Malsors?
Yes, the people from Re are certainly Malsor and have been classed as such for a very long time.

J Man
08-11-2019, 05:18 PM
Yes, the people from Re are certainly Malsor and have been classed as such for a very long time.

They are an example of a mostly Muslim Malsor tribe then which is interesting although some of them are likely also Roman Catholic still. Originally they must have been all Roman Catholic though I think.

Kelmendasi
08-11-2019, 05:41 PM
They are an example of a mostly Muslim Malsor tribe then which is interesting although some of them are likely also Roman Catholic still. Originally they must have been all Roman Catholic though I think.
Yh they do seem to be mostly Muslim, there are other areas within Malesi which are mostly Muslim but they are the minority and clans as a whole tend to be mainly Catholic. Yh they were definitely Catholic before converting, oral traditions claim that they arrived in Re as Catholics

J Man
08-11-2019, 11:39 PM
Yh they do seem to be mostly Muslim, there are other areas within Malesi which are mostly Muslim but they are the minority and clans as a whole tend to be mainly Catholic. Yh they were definitely Catholic before converting, oral traditions claim that they arrived in Re as Catholics

Yes according to Robert Elsie there is a tradition among them that they originally descend from two Catholic families.

J Man
08-13-2019, 04:47 AM
Thank you for the link Kelmendasi. Indeed it does seem like the Rei had their own bajrak in the past with their most famous bajraktari being Zyber Selmani.

https://zanimalsise.com/bajraktaret-e-malesise/

J Man
08-13-2019, 04:48 AM
double post.

J Man
08-17-2019, 04:19 AM
It is interesting to see two Rei J2a-M67 results in the Albanian DNA Project now. More need to be tested to truly confirm this of course but this lends some support to Rei being a ''Fis'' I think.

Reci Reci Qaf Grad, Shkoder, Shqiperi J2a-M410>M67>?

Hekaj Reci Rec, Shkoder, Shqiperi J2a-M410>M67>?


http://www.gjenetika.com/rezultatet/

Kelmendasi
08-17-2019, 01:57 PM
It is interesting to see two Rei J2a-M67 results in the Albanian DNA Project now. More need to be tested to truly confirm this of course but this lends some support to Rei being a ''Fis'' I think.

Reci Reci Qaf Grad, Shkoder, Shqiperi J2a-M410>M67>?

Hekaj Reci Rec, Shkoder, Shqiperi J2a-M410>M67>?


http://www.gjenetika.com/rezultatet/
Yh it is interesting. Based on the fact that both results are from two different villages in Re I would say that it’s likely that Rei is, mainly, J-M67. However, we should test more and see if this is true.

J Man
08-22-2019, 06:10 PM
Yes, the people from Re are certainly Malsor and have been classed as such for a very long time.

I am curious as to how the people of Re/Rei are classified as Malsor? They come from a highland region and have the same cultural values as other tribes from Malsia e Madhe?

Kelmendasi
08-23-2019, 08:13 PM
I am curious as to how the people of Re/Rei are classified as Malsor? They come from a highland region and have the same cultural values as other tribes from Malsia e Madhe?
They are classed as Malsor because of how they, as a people, come from Malsi e Madhe and have been there for a very long time. Malsor itself just means highlander and can be used for people from other mountainous regions as well.

The Rei themselves come under a sub division of Malsi e Madhe called Rranxa. This region has a higher Muslim population than Malsi proper and includes the lower part of Malsi.

J Man
02-20-2020, 09:51 PM
An interesting article about Rei.

http://www.gazetadita.al/reci-i-geshtenjave-dhe-traditave-historike/

Dibran
02-22-2020, 12:45 PM
I have pages of Rei from history of Diber book. I will post them shortly. Assuming we speak of those from Dibra as well.

J Man
02-22-2020, 01:43 PM
I have pages of Rei from history of Diber book. I will post them shortly. Assuming we speak of those from Dibra as well.

This thread is about the Rei of the Shkoder area.

Dibran
02-22-2020, 01:48 PM
This thread is about the Rei of the Shkoder area.

Was under the impression they had similar origin. Il make a separate thread then.

J Man
02-22-2020, 02:55 PM
Was under the impression they had similar origin. Il make a separate thread then.

I do not think that they have the same origin but I could be wrong.

J Man
02-23-2020, 12:31 AM
Another interesting article about Rei. He seems to mention a population change around the year 1582 along with Islamization. Maybe that was when the ancestors of the current population of Re arrived?

https://zanimalsise.com/kisha-e-recit-ne-malesine-e-madhe-monument-qyteterimi-e-besimi-i-lene-ne-harrese/

Maleschreiber
02-26-2020, 05:28 PM
Hey again! It's been about a week since we last talked.

So, I've been doing a bit of research on old Albanian tribes of Herzegovina. So far, this is what I've written: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burmazi

Also, I've been collecting archival data about the spread of Hoti in Herzegovina, Sandzak, and south-eastern Bosnia in the 18th century. Here (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hoti_%28tribe%29&type=revision&diff=942757657&oldid=941757587)'s everything new I've added to the Hoti article.

About Durham's "they came from Bosnia note". There's something that sort of unifies her story with the archival data that place Hoti's origin in Plav at least in 1330. Albanian pastoral communities from the Plav area used to move their herds in southern Bosnia during the winter months and then move back in the spring and summer months to their natural grazing lands. That could given another reasonable explanation to a story that stands opposite to the historical records.

trdbr1234
03-07-2020, 11:05 PM
Hey again! It's been about a week since we last talked.

So, I've been doing a bit of research on old Albanian tribes of Herzegovina. So far, this is what I've written: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burmazi

Also, I've been collecting archival data about the spread of Hoti in Herzegovina, Sandzak, and south-eastern Bosnia in the 18th century. Here (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hoti_%28tribe%29&type=revision&diff=942757657&oldid=941757587)'s everything new I've added to the Hoti article.

About Durham's "they came from Bosnia note". There's something that sort of unifies her story with the archival data that place Hoti's origin in Plav at least in 1330. Albanian pastoral communities from the Plav area used to move their herds in southern Bosnia during the winter months and then move back in the spring and summer months to their natural grazing lands. That could given another reasonable explanation to a story that stands opposite to the historical records.

Very interesting.

Are any other Albanian Fis/Clans noted in Herzegovenia? Or of possible Albanian origin?

I wonder, is this clan a result of population movement with the Vlach into Herzegovina, or is it a result of an independent Albanian stratum that survived the Slavic movements in the area? Are there any sources that position one way or another?

In addition, the wiki article states that they were often confused with the Vlach. I find this to be a common theme. Are the Vlach themselves newcomers to Herzegovina, or do they also represent a population that survived Slavization independently?

What is your opinion?

Maleschreiber
03-09-2020, 02:51 PM
The article (based on existing bibliography) says that "In the archives of Ragusa they are grouped together in terms of social and economic organization with the also pastoral Vlachs whose name figured as inclusive of all semi-nomadic pastoralists in the area, but recorded as Albanians otherwise.". Vlach in the medieval Herzegovina, Bosnia and Croatia was a catch-all term for pastoralists. So, Vlach didn't necessarily mean that someone was a Vlach in the ethnic sense, but that someone "worked as a Vlach". That is why Burmazi is grouped under the Vlach social class, but classified as Albanians. There is no contradiction there. The same thing happened with Croatian groups that were listed further north as "Vlach" but were Slavs that were semi-nomadic pastoralists.

I think that the actual Vlachs of that area were a native group that represented a romanized native population. Otherwise, their toponymy wouldn't be preserved in modern Slavic toponymy. It would make no sense for the Slavs to adopt the name that another non-native group in those lands used.

We have no evidence for Burmazi whether they were from Herzegovina or from further south. What we do know is that the form Burmazi presents an older form in Albanian (as opposed to the more modern "Burmadhi"). Personally, I think that they were natives of the area between Old Hercegovina and northern to central Montenegro because the /z/ form is preserved in toponyms from Albanian in that general area.

Exercitus
03-09-2020, 04:55 PM
https://www.academia.edu/16044391/SHTRIRJA_DHE_SLLAVIZIMI_I_VLLAZ%C3%8BRIVE_ALBANE_M ESJETARE_BURMAZI_DHE_MATARUGA_N%C3%8B_AREALIN_E_TR EK%C3%8BND%C3%8BSHIT_T%C3%8B_KUFIJVE_T%C3%8B_BOSNJ %C3%8BS_E_HERCEGOVIN%C3%8BS_MALIT_T%C3%8B_ZI_DHE_S ERBIS%C3%8B_SIPAS_DY_DEFTER%C3%8BVE_T%C3%8B_SANXHA KUT_T%C3%8B_HERCEGOVIN%C3%8BS_T%C3%8B_SHEK._XV_

J Man
03-16-2020, 08:21 PM
I found this information about Reci recently on Facebook. A man named Rexhep Metaj wrote it.

Ne prag festen , tradicjonale te
Recit.

Po kush eshte Reci i M, Madhe?
Historik i shkurter.
Shtrirja gjeografike.
Ky fshat, apo bajrak sic quhesh dikur,
Shtrihet nga fusha e postopojes , hyrja e
Recit , i kufizuar me Lohen, duke u shtrire
Permes pdhajes Recit gjer ne Lumin e
Rrijodhit, ku kufizohet nepermes rrjedhes
Kti lumi, me fshatin Rrijodh, ne lindje,
Ne jug kufizohet me fshatin Grizhe, dhe
Vazhdon te shtrihet drejt veriut nepermes
malesh te buta e kodrash me geshteja gjer
me fshatin Rrepisht e bjeshket e Lohes.

Prehistorija e Recit sotshem,
Zon e banuar qe ne mesjet, shejat e seciles
Duken ne tumat, ne hyrjen e tije, ne gjurmet
e kalase Babices e shen Ilijas, Majores , lopcit,
Kalas Balexes, , vendet ku u shkrine e u perpunuan metale, te buta, ne zonen e
Moslit , varrezat e shumta e shum antike,
qe gjenden sidomos nga Duka e ne ,Dotc.
Gjithashtu puse e kroje shum te lashta,
Te shoqruara kto edhe me gojdhena qe:
Shpesh te bindin per prehistorin e ksaj
Zone.
Reci i sotshem .
Ky komunitet, perbehet nga ,13 fise qe , pak
A shum krijuan edhe lagjet Recjane, Duke
marr edhe emrat e tyre .

FISI i Recasve, ku perbene fisin me te madhe
Ne kte zon, emrin e te cilve mori krejt, zona, qe
Ne Shekudhin e 15 te,kur ktu ngul, i pari i tije
Nik Reci ,bashke me kater djemt , Ul Niken,
Prel Niken, dhe Ali Niken e Veli Niken, dy me
te vegjlit te konvertuar ne mysliman, te cilet
u vendosen ne lagjet e sotme, Ulnikaj, ne hyrje
Te Recit, prelnikaj, lagje mbi ulnikajt,
Ndersa , Alija dhe Velija ne qafgrad( apo REC
Siperm) ne vendin e quajtur qafksodh,
Edhe Alijajt, sikurse , Ulnikajt dhe Prelnikajt, e
Ruajten emrin e lagjeve tyre, ndersa Velijajt,
E lane ne harres , Duke krijuar, disa lagje,
me emrat e trashigimtarve te tyre te mevonshem, si , Mucaj, Balaj, Brucaj, Skneraj,
Lekaj, Celaj, Kolaj, ,etj.apo Duke marr emrin e
truadhit, Sic Jane, Mosli dhe Bolxa, ( Emer
Vendebanimi qe ka egzistuar para emrit REC)
Nik Reci ,nga fis i Recasve ne Vilajetin e Rrafshit te Dukagjinit, , ( fis qe trajtohet ne
Defteret e Sanxhakut) te shek, 14, zbriti dhe
U vendos dhe i dha emrin e vete Recit ,M, M,
I cili quhej me pare, Balz, Bolz,
Gjeti realishte sipas, te dhenave te sakta gojore,
dy fise te banuara ne REC, njenin ne Bolc, dhe
Tjeterin ne Dotc, dhe kta Jane FISI i Jakupve,
Apo Bolcakve, Kodrajve apo Dotcorve. Te cilet
Nuk Kane nje historik te ardhjes tyre ne kte
Vend. por qe dihet se Jane banor shum te hershem , para Recjanve e atyre qe erdhen pas.

FISI i Kucasve, i ardhur nga kuc i Malit te Zi,
Te aferm me fisin e Recit te cilit ju bashkangjiten jo shum von ardhjes tyre ne
Kte vend.

Fisi i Vuxvukajve, vdhazri e fisit Recjanve, te
Ardhur edhe kta nga trojet e Malit Zi te vendbanimeve Shqiptare, te cilet su martuan
Me Recjanet deri ne shek e 20 te, per arsye
Gjaku, te ardhur edhe kta pas Recasve ne
Nje kohe me kucasit. Fundi i shek 15 te apo
Fidhimi i te 16 tit.

Fisi i Vuk Recit, apo i dodtcit, i ardhur NGA
trojet e Malit Zi dhe vendosur ne lagjen Dodtc.

FISI i Dukasve, i ardhur edhe kta nga kuc i
M, Zi, te cilet marrin emrin e lagjes Duk, vend
banim i Dukes administrues te
Balexes,

Vajushet ,
Pasardhes te fisit Marash Vajushit, te ardhur
Nga fise Shqiptare te M, Zi.te cilet i dhane
Edhe emrin e te parit tyre ksaj zone te

Recit.emer qe vazhdon ta mbaje.

Egcalugasit,
FIS me fisin Egcit Bregut , Zona Rrijodh,
Te ardhur e te strehuar ne komshidhek me
Vajushesit, si nip, bije.

FISI Hebaj.
FIS i njohur blegtoresh ne te gjith treven e
veriut, me perqendrim ne zonen nenshkodres,
Te ardhur ne Rec, ne shek e 18, te nepermes
blerjevet pronave, ne fidhim si rezident te
Perkohshem, per shtegtime ne bjeshke dhe
me von u bene banues te perhershem, Duke
Formuar edhe lagjen e tyre Hebaj, ne qender
Te Recit,.

FISI Xhakaj.
I ardhur nga nenshkodra ne shek 18 te,
Per arsye klime.

FISI i Lopcit,
I ardhur nga Shala Dugagjin, fidhimshekudhin
E 19 te, ku moren emrin e vendit ku u vendosen
te cilin ua blene Vajushasve, lopcin.

Qe nga kjo koh e ardhjes, fisit me te fundit,
Lopcorve, ne bajrakun e Recit, nuk kemi
me banor te ri.

Kelmendasi
03-16-2020, 08:34 PM
I found this information about Reci recently on Facebook. A man named Rexhep Metaj wrote it.

Ne prag festen , tradicjonale te
Recit.

Po kush eshte Reci i M, Madhe?
Historik i shkurter.
Shtrirja gjeografike.
Ky fshat, apo bajrak sic quhesh dikur,
Shtrihet nga fusha e postopojes , hyrja e
Recit , i kufizuar me Lohen, duke u shtrire
Permes pdhajes Recit gjer ne Lumin e
Rrijodhit, ku kufizohet nepermes rrjedhes
Kti lumi, me fshatin Rrijodh, ne lindje,
Ne jug kufizohet me fshatin Grizhe, dhe
Vazhdon te shtrihet drejt veriut nepermes
malesh te buta e kodrash me geshteja gjer
me fshatin Rrepisht e bjeshket e Lohes.

Prehistorija e Recit sotshem,
Zon e banuar qe ne mesjet, shejat e seciles
Duken ne tumat, ne hyrjen e tije, ne gjurmet
e kalase Babices e shen Ilijas, Majores , lopcit,
Kalas Balexes, , vendet ku u shkrine e u perpunuan metale, te buta, ne zonen e
Moslit , varrezat e shumta e shum antike,
qe gjenden sidomos nga Duka e ne ,Dotc.
Gjithashtu puse e kroje shum te lashta,
Te shoqruara kto edhe me gojdhena qe:
Shpesh te bindin per prehistorin e ksaj
Zone.
Reci i sotshem .
Ky komunitet, perbehet nga ,13 fise qe , pak
A shum krijuan edhe lagjet Recjane, Duke
marr edhe emrat e tyre .

FISI i Recasve, ku perbene fisin me te madhe
Ne kte zon, emrin e te cilve mori krejt, zona, qe
Ne Shekudhin e 15 te,kur ktu ngul, i pari i tije
Nik Reci ,bashke me kater djemt , Ul Niken,
Prel Niken, dhe Ali Niken e Veli Niken, dy me
te vegjlit te konvertuar ne mysliman, te cilet
u vendosen ne lagjet e sotme, Ulnikaj, ne hyrje
Te Recit, prelnikaj, lagje mbi ulnikajt,
Ndersa , Alija dhe Velija ne qafgrad( apo REC
Siperm) ne vendin e quajtur qafksodh,
Edhe Alijajt, sikurse , Ulnikajt dhe Prelnikajt, e
Ruajten emrin e lagjeve tyre, ndersa Velijajt,
E lane ne harres , Duke krijuar, disa lagje,
me emrat e trashigimtarve te tyre te mevonshem, si , Mucaj, Balaj, Brucaj, Skneraj,
Lekaj, Celaj, Kolaj, ,etj.apo Duke marr emrin e
truadhit, Sic Jane, Mosli dhe Bolxa, ( Emer
Vendebanimi qe ka egzistuar para emrit REC)
Nik Reci ,nga fis i Recasve ne Vilajetin e Rrafshit te Dukagjinit, , ( fis qe trajtohet ne
Defteret e Sanxhakut) te shek, 14, zbriti dhe
U vendos dhe i dha emrin e vete Recit ,M, M,
I cili quhej me pare, Balz, Bolz,
Gjeti realishte sipas, te dhenave te sakta gojore,
dy fise te banuara ne REC, njenin ne Bolc, dhe
Tjeterin ne Dotc, dhe kta Jane FISI i Jakupve,
Apo Bolcakve, Kodrajve apo Dotcorve. Te cilet
Nuk Kane nje historik te ardhjes tyre ne kte
Vend. por qe dihet se Jane banor shum te hershem , para Recjanve e atyre qe erdhen pas.

FISI i Kucasve, i ardhur nga kuc i Malit te Zi,
Te aferm me fisin e Recit te cilit ju bashkangjiten jo shum von ardhjes tyre ne
Kte vend.

Fisi i Vuxvukajve, vdhazri e fisit Recjanve, te
Ardhur edhe kta nga trojet e Malit Zi te vendbanimeve Shqiptare, te cilet su martuan
Me Recjanet deri ne shek e 20 te, per arsye
Gjaku, te ardhur edhe kta pas Recasve ne
Nje kohe me kucasit. Fundi i shek 15 te apo
Fidhimi i te 16 tit.

Fisi i Vuk Recit, apo i dodtcit, i ardhur NGA
trojet e Malit Zi dhe vendosur ne lagjen Dodtc.

FISI i Dukasve, i ardhur edhe kta nga kuc i
M, Zi, te cilet marrin emrin e lagjes Duk, vend
banim i Dukes administrues te
Balexes,

Vajushet ,
Pasardhes te fisit Marash Vajushit, te ardhur
Nga fise Shqiptare te M, Zi.te cilet i dhane
Edhe emrin e te parit tyre ksaj zone te

Recit.emer qe vazhdon ta mbaje.

Egcalugasit,
FIS me fisin Egcit Bregut , Zona Rrijodh,
Te ardhur e te strehuar ne komshidhek me
Vajushesit, si nip, bije.

FISI Hebaj.
FIS i njohur blegtoresh ne te gjith treven e
veriut, me perqendrim ne zonen nenshkodres,
Te ardhur ne Rec, ne shek e 18, te nepermes
blerjevet pronave, ne fidhim si rezident te
Perkohshem, per shtegtime ne bjeshke dhe
me von u bene banues te perhershem, Duke
Formuar edhe lagjen e tyre Hebaj, ne qender
Te Recit,.

FISI Xhakaj.
I ardhur nga nenshkodra ne shek 18 te,
Per arsye klime.

FISI i Lopcit,
I ardhur nga Shala Dugagjin, fidhimshekudhin
E 19 te, ku moren emrin e vendit ku u vendosen
te cilin ua blene Vajushasve, lopcin.

Qe nga kjo koh e ardhjes, fisit me te fundit,
Lopcorve, ne bajrakun e Recit, nuk kemi
me banor te ri.
Very interesting, he basically gives a breakdown of the families/tribes or fis that live in Re.

Interestingly, he states that the majority of the Rei descend from a certain Nik Rei who arrived from western Kosovo (Rrafshi i Dukagjinit). This contrasts the oral tradition that states that they came from the village of Re in the lowlands of Shkodra. A Nika Rei is recorded in the defter of 1485 in the village of Re, this I believe confirms the origin of the clan from the lowlands of Shkodra. Perhaps he mistook the defters/records.
He also mentions a number of families that came to Rei during the 18th and 19th centuries; both the Hebaj and Xhakaj are believed to have come from Shkodr, and the Lopci came from Shala.

J Man
03-17-2020, 12:33 AM
Very interesting, he basically gives a breakdown of the families/tribes or fis that live in Re.

Interestingly, he states that the majority of the Rei descend from a certain Nik Rei who arrived from western Kosovo (Rrafshi i Dukagjinit). This contrasts the oral tradition that states that they came from the village of Re in the lowlands of Shkodra. A Nika Rei is recorded in the defter of 1485 in the village of Re, this I believe confirms the origin of the clan from the lowlands of Shkodra. Perhaps he mistook the defters/records.
He also mentions a number of families that came to Rei during the 18th and 19th centuries; both the Hebaj and Xhakaj are believed to have come from Shkodr, and the Lopci came from Shala.

Yes indeed it certainly is very interesting.

Well isn't the village of Re today basically in the lowlands? Isn't it only around 300-400 meters in elevation above sea level?

Kelmendasi
03-17-2020, 02:14 PM
Yes indeed it certainly is very interesting.

Well isn't the village of Re today basically in the lowlands? Isn't it only around 300-400 meters in elevation above sea level?
In this context "lowlands of Shkodra" refers to the areas around the Drin and Bojana (Buna) rivers, roughly corresponding to the Ana e Malit and Zadrima regions of Albania.

As for Rei itself, not too sure if I would call it lowland. The area is surrounded by hills and mountains in some parts, though it may not be as mountainous as say Kelmend. In comparison, many of the villages in the Zadrima region are found at an elevation that is under 6 meters above sea level.

J Man
03-17-2020, 03:19 PM
In this context "lowlands of Shkodra" refers to the areas around the Drin and Bojana (Buna) rivers, roughly corresponding to the Ana e Malit and Zadrima regions of Albania.

As for Rei itself, not too sure if I would call it lowland. The area is surrounded by hills and mountains in some parts, though it may not be as mountainous as say Kelmend. In comparison, many of the villages in the Zadrima region are found at an elevation that is under 6 meters above sea level.

In Rei the village of Qafe-Grade may be around 300-400 meters in elevation I think and Re village may be even lower. I see what you mean though for sure. Further up from Qafe-Grade towards Rrepisht the elevation becomes much higher I think.

J Man
03-31-2020, 02:31 AM
Here is an interesting site that mention a conflict between Rei and Lohjes.

http://www.zemrashqiptare.net/news/30936/rp-0/act-print/rf-1/printo.html

letra nr 13, viti 1932, faqe 56-58: “T tre t vrart ishin t Reit, ndrsa gjaksit ishin t Lohjes. Meshkujt e tyre ran kshtu n gjak dhe nuk mund t shkonin n kish e as t dilnin jasht shtpive. Shkuam dhe kerkuam nse fshati i Reit sht i gatshm t’i jipte armpushim atij t Lohjes. Ata e dhan besen. Ne kish vinin te gjithe, nuk mungoi as Gjergji e Gajtani, vllai i madh i Gjovanit t vrar, q jetonte vetm me t mn… At Genovizzi dhe un, s bashku me krert pleq te dy fshatrave, shkuam n shtpin e Gjergjit. Pas dy or bisedimesh, mundm t marrim prej tij fjaln e madhe “e kam fal”. T njjtn gj bm me Gajtanin… e m n fund u vendos paqja dhe vllazria n mes Reit dhe Lohjes”.

trdbr1234
04-02-2020, 03:37 AM
https://www.academia.edu/16044391/SHTRIRJA_DHE_SLLAVIZIMI_I_VLLAZ%C3%8BRIVE_ALBANE_M ESJETARE_BURMAZI_DHE_MATARUGA_N%C3%8B_AREALIN_E_TR EK%C3%8BND%C3%8BSHIT_T%C3%8B_KUFIJVE_T%C3%8B_BOSNJ %C3%8BS_E_HERCEGOVIN%C3%8BS_MALIT_T%C3%8B_ZI_DHE_S ERBIS%C3%8B_SIPAS_DY_DEFTER%C3%8BVE_T%C3%8B_SANXHA KUT_T%C3%8B_HERCEGOVIN%C3%8BS_T%C3%8B_SHEK._XV_

From reading the publication, I could not make out how this tribe is labeled an Albanian one. Maybe I missed something and need to reread it.

Seems to me that their name is the primary and possibly only thing Albanian about them? At best, they have preserved some vague and indirect relations to Roman Illyria. It does seem clear to me that they are an independent entity to Albanians. What did I miss?


The Mataruga however seem to be a fully Albanian tribe.

Maleschreiber
04-02-2020, 01:22 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbana%C5%A1ka,_Trebinje This settlement is linked to them

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burmazi : The brotherhoods of Burmazi also included the Zotovići. The earlier, non-Slavic form of Zotović is Zot, which means lord in Albanian.[4] Geographer Jevto Dedijer who traveled in the village to study its history noted that this earlier form was inscribed in the village in older family monuments like a cross that bore the name of village elder Petar Zot.[3]

From Idriz Ajeti's Collected Works: "N fshatin Burmaz, nga shqipja buri-madh – njeri i madh, Jefta Dedijer, (o.c.121), lexoi n nj kryq t vjetr q nj plak i tyre sht quajtur Petar Zot, e jo Zotović. Dedijeri pohon se kjo ishte nj familje e vjetr, dhe duke u mbshtetur n nj shnim, thot se “peshkopi Noktaris Zotoviqi, trebinjas n vitin 1705, i fali ikonn manastirit
t Trebinjs”. "

Exercitus
04-02-2020, 04:37 PM
Well as I.Rexha has noticed, in the Defter of Hercegovina year 1476, the existence of typical Albanian Anthroponyms\Patronyms - Bardho & Progon - among the Burmaz\Burrmadh people in Nahije of Burmaz;

...Po ashtu, duhet theksuar se n nahijen Burmaz hasim 4 familje me patronimin Bardo t substratit ilir dhe 3 familje me patronimin Progon t protoshqips mesjetare, q n mesjet i mbanin familjet arbrore...

There are also other Anthroponymic and Topnomymic evidence from the 13th and 14th centuries that demonstrate their Albanophony, for instance;

1) Bogdan son of Gjin of Burmaz & Gjin son of Burmaz year 1321 !!

37044

2) The Toponymy near Gleđevaca (close to Burmaz Village) years 1382-1419, which contain a Anthroponymic component, to whom is attributed;
Preka Ljut - Прека Љут

3) The presence of Albanian-speaking communities near Ragusa\Dubrovnik where for the first time is 'attested the existence' of the Albanian language, in 14 july 1284 ;

....Audivi unam vocem, clamantem in monte in lingua albanesca.....

37045


37046


So in the Hinterland of Ragusa in the XIII century we encounter Albanian Clans (Burmaz, Zoto,Mataruga, Zhura, Maleshi, Mirushi etc) and Vlach Clans (Ridjani, Banjani, Nenkovici, Glegjevici, Vranic, Perutinovci, etc)

Sorcelow
04-02-2020, 04:50 PM
Well as I.Rexha has noticed, in the Defter of Hercegovina year 1476, the existence of typical Albanian Anthroponyms\Patronyms - Bardho & Progon - among the Burmaz\Burrmadh people in Nahije of Burmaz;

...Po ashtu, duhet theksuar se n nahijen Burmaz hasim 4 familje me patronimin Bardo t substratit ilir dhe 3 familje me patronimin Progon t protoshqips mesjetare, q n mesjet i mbanin familjet arbrore...

There are also other Anthroponymic and Topnomymic evidence from the 13th and 14th centuries that demonstrate their Albanophony, for instance;

1) Bogdan son of Gjin of Burmaz & Gjin son of Burmaz year 1321 !!

37044

2) The Toponymy near Gleđevaca (close to Burmaz Village) years 1382-1419, which contain a Anthroponymic component, to whom is attributed;
Preka Ljut - Прека Љут

3) The presence of Albanian-speaking communities near Ragusa\Dubrovnik where for the first time is 'attested the existence' of the Albanian language, in 14 july 1284 ;

....Audivi unam vocem, clamantem in monte in lingua albanesca.....

37045


37046


So in the Hinterland of Ragusa in the XIII century we encounter Albanian Clans (Burmaz, Zoto,Mataruga, Zhura, Maleshi, Mirushi etc) and Vlach Clans (Ridjani, Banjani, Nenkovici, Glegjevici, Vranic, Perutinovci, etc)

The name Zhura "Jura" appears in Arvanitic villages in the Peloponnesian defter of 1462.

Exercitus
04-02-2020, 05:09 PM
Yes, it is quite normal to have such ubiquitary Anthroponymy among the Albanians in the Middle Ages!! There is also a Old Albanian village in there area near the border Albania-Kosova, called;
Zhur https://www.google.com/maps/place/Zhur/@42.1594767,20.6150399,9749m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x1353c0d5d66ca47f:0xd7760 5cf35fe1037!8m2!3d42.1654255!4d20.6154023

J Man
04-02-2020, 05:10 PM
I am not trying to be rude or anything but your guy's recent discussions are really veering away from the topic of this thread.

Keqa
04-11-2020, 03:49 AM
Reci, 1485

https://imgur.com/KNYkfny

https://imgur.com/Egs6NZu

There are two such settlements close to Shkoder so not sure which one is representing Reci the tribe, might be the second one.

Maleschreiber
04-13-2020, 04:13 PM
Reci, 1485

https://imgur.com/KNYkfny

https://imgur.com/Egs6NZu

There are two such settlements close to Shkoder so not sure which one is representing Reci the tribe, might be the second one.

Both. The Reci in the mountains was founded by people who left the first Reci. We know this because the scribe of the defter wrote it as a comment about the small number of households in Reci.

J Man
04-21-2020, 03:41 AM
As we know the Reci tribe seems to be a mixed one when it comes to religion with a majority Muslim and a minority Roman Catholic population. So far two Muslims from Reci are J2a-M67 so it will be interesting to see in the future if any of the Roman Catholic Reci are also J2a-M67 or belong to another haplogroup.

J Man
05-10-2020, 02:01 AM
I shared the link about this already but I missed two of the bajraktars. Some of the old Bajraktars from Reci are mentioned in this article. From Reci are Zyber Selman (elaj)-Bajraktari, Dyl Sokoli and Mark Loshi.

https://zanimalsise.com/bajraktaret-e-malesise/?fbclid=IwAR0qmgMhYn3_qTYh9-T9hNs_ho54zRXccQlY4WQsPkqZYuvHBd7yGJ4Bve8