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icebreaker
01-04-2014, 11:11 PM
Hello!

I have a question about my y-dna. Accordng to 23andme, I have both L23 and L49. Is this normal or a "special case"? Because I've found out most people I know with the same y-dna, have only L23 mutation. How to interpret this L49?

My parents are from Turkey.

rms2
01-04-2014, 11:32 PM
Hello!

I have a question about my y-dna. Accordng to 23andme, I have both L23 and L49. Is this normal or a "special case"? Because I've found out most people I know with the same y-dna, have only L23 mutation. How to interpret this L49?

My parents are from Turkey.

L49 is apparently equivalent to L23, so that would not be an odd result at all.

If you have not done so yet, I encourage you to get some STR (Short Tandem Repeat) markers from Family Tree DNA and join the R1b1a2 (P312- U106-) DNA Project (http://www.familytreedna.com/public/ht35new/).

Silesian
01-04-2014, 11:34 PM
Hello!

I have a question about my y-dna. Accordng to 23andme, I have both L23 and L49. Is this normal or a "special case"? Because I've found out most people I know with the same y-dna, have only L23 mutation. How to interpret this L49?

My parents are from Turkey.

I have around 40-50 L23+ L49+, that I share with on my 23andme account. Its normal for our branch Z2105. I joined the Turkey project #176123, you might want to look into joining your country ydna project.

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/turkey/default.aspx?section=yresults

icebreaker
01-04-2014, 11:49 PM
So, I have to order ftdna-kit to know more about my subclade.

@silesian

Whats your subclade on 23andme? Also r1b1b2a ?

rms2
01-04-2014, 11:59 PM
So, I have to order ftdna-kit to know more about my subclade.

. . .

I would say unequivocally yes.

It will give you the chance to find STR matches and to join the projects Silesian and I mentioned above, which I think would be of assistance to you and allow you to be of assistance to the larger genetic genealogy community. Anatolia (modern Turkey) is very significant for R1b.

icebreaker
01-05-2014, 12:02 AM
Will 37 marker help or do I need 67 marker?

rms2
01-05-2014, 12:04 AM
Will 37 marker help or do I need 67 marker?

Any number - even 12 - is better than none and will get you into FTDNA's database and allow you to join its projects. But, honestly, 67 is the minimum to really be informative. 111 are better, if you can swing it.

Joe B
01-05-2014, 12:08 AM
Hello!

I have a question about my y-dna. Accordng to 23andme, I have both L23 and L49. Is this normal or a "special case"? Because I've found out most people I know with the same y-dna, have only L23 mutation. How to interpret this L49?

My parents are from Turkey.

Everybody in our subclade is special. Welcome to Anthrogenica. There is a lot of information for you and most of it can be found in the Forum: R1b Early Subclades (http://www.anthrogenica.com/forumdisplay.php?51-R1b-Early-Subclades). The phlylogenetic tree that you will want to find your place on is here (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?820-R1b-Early-Branching-Phylogeny-%28SNP-based-family-tree%29&p=15405&viewfull=1#post15405). You will see more advanced trees mentioned but this is a good place to get a visual for where you may be. rms2 and Silesian are right on with the R1b1a2 (P312- U106-) DNA Project (http://www.familytreedna.com/public/ht35new/) and Turkey Project (http://www.familytreedna.com/public/turkey/default.aspx?section=yresults). Is your family from one of the ethnic groups in Turkey?
Bottom line is we want you to please test to a minimum of 67 STRs and find your terminal SNP as things have advanced past L23 and L49.
ISOGG SNP testing (http://isogg.org/wiki/SNP_testing)
ISOGG Y-DNA STR (http://isogg.org/wiki/Y-STR)
I agree with rms2 that Turkey is very important and so is your testing.

Silesian
01-05-2014, 12:12 AM
So, I have to order ftdna-kit to know more about my subclade.

@silesian

Whats your subclade on 23andme? Also r1b1b2a ?
As of this time you could be L277+ or L584+ or other, Europe have still an undefined branch of Z2105 which include, JoeB, Rathna, and myself.

icebreaker
01-05-2014, 12:27 AM
Everybody in our subclade is special. Welcome to Anthrogenica. There is a lot of information for you and most of it can be found in the Forum: R1b Early Subclades (http://www.anthrogenica.com/forumdisplay.php?51-R1b-Early-Subclades). The phlylogenetic tree that you will want to find your place on is here (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?820-R1b-Early-Branching-Phylogeny-%28SNP-based-family-tree%29&p=15405&viewfull=1#post15405). You will see more advanced trees mentioned but this is a good place to get a visual for where you may be. rms2 and Silesian are right on with the R1b1a2 (P312- U106-) DNA Project (http://www.familytreedna.com/public/ht35new/) and Turkey Project (http://www.familytreedna.com/public/turkey/default.aspx?section=yresults). Is your family from one of the ethnic groups in Turkey?
Bottom line is we want you to please test to a minimum of 67 STRs and find your terminal SNP as things have advanced past L23 and L49.
ISOGG SNP testing (http://isogg.org/wiki/SNP_testing)
ISOGG Y-DNA STR (http://isogg.org/wiki/Y-STR)
I agree with rms2 that Turkey is very important and so is your testing.

Hi,

Thank you, I will read them. My peternal great-grandfather is Laz(1/8). Rest of my family is Turkish.

icebreaker
01-05-2014, 12:31 AM
As of this time you could be L277+ or L584+ or other, Europe have still an undefined branch of Z2105 which include, JoeB, Rathna, and myself.

Okay,but you have an account on 23andme right. Whats your y-dna? I just want to compare what FTDna and 23andme says.

icebreaker
01-05-2014, 12:33 AM
Any number - even 12 - is better than none and will get you into FTDNA's database and allow you to join its projects. But, honestly, 67 is the minimum to really be informative. 111 are better, if you can swing it.

67 markers sounds good.

Joe B
01-05-2014, 01:06 AM
Hi,

Thank you, I will read them. My paternal great-grandfather is Laz(1/8). Rest of my family is Turkish.
That is excellent to know. A quick glance at Lazistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazistan) and it's easy to see geographically why your testing is important.
There are at least three R1b Lak haplotypes out there. They can be found in the Caucasus Project (http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Caucasus/default.aspx?vgroup=Caucasus&section=ycolorized) in
the R1b1a2a L23+ L51- (R1b-M269>L23xL51) section and all need more SNP testing. They and you should test for Z2103 sometime.
Thanks for testing.

icebreaker
01-05-2014, 01:15 AM
Lak =/= Laz

I think Georgian Project (http://www.familytreedna.com/public/georgia/default.aspx?section=yresults) is more relevant.

Joe B
01-05-2014, 01:22 AM
Lak =/= Laz

I think Georgian Project (http://www.familytreedna.com/public/georgia/default.aspx?section=yresults) is more relevant.
My mistake, should have looked closer. Glad to have you aboard.

ADW_1981
01-05-2014, 04:27 AM
I believe one of the admins of the Georgian project occasionally posts here, but I noticed before that most of the R1b haplotypes were from one of the provinces in eastern Georgia. Unfortunately it's not possible to see that granular level anymore, but it may be historically significant if that data was ever available or released.

Silesian
01-05-2014, 05:25 AM
Okay,but you have an account on 23andme right. Whats your y-dna? I just want to compare what FTDna and 23andme says.
Yes we will be the same on 23andme,L23+ L49+. Familytreedna tests for strs as well as snps. Using a combination of strs and snps you can narrow down your matches. For example, you test for 67strs, and enter your numeric values into ysearch http://www.ysearch.org you can then narrow down further matches and determine what branch you cluster with.

Invisible Sun
01-05-2014, 06:27 PM
Hello Icebreaker!
We are in a similar situation I am a Sicilian R1b, L49+ according to 23andme. Unfortunately I have a no call for L23, which is considered more reliable than L49 in order to clarify philogenetic position. You can check if you are L277+ by browsing the snp rs2538852 on 23andme (I am negative), or just have a look on the following thread:

https://www.23andme.com/you/community/thread/4712/

I am waiting for a Z2103 test at FTDna, I suggest you to do at least the 67 marker test, and then maybe an SNP test to identify your terminal snp (you could be lucky with just a single SNP test instead of paying for geno 2.0).
Anthrogenica is the right place for early R1b subclades (and not only), tons of infos, always the latest news and people discuss nicely and with a mature attitude. Thereīs a lot to learn here IMO.

Good Luck :)

icebreaker
01-05-2014, 07:11 PM
Hi!

Wow, i was always looking at standard mutation mapper of r1b1b2a. It looks i also have a no call for L23.

variant call anc der
rs9785971 (L23) G A
rs9786142 (L49) A T A

SNP
rs2538852 = T
rs9786140 = G

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/3412/3mcr.jpg

icebreaker
01-05-2014, 08:44 PM
So, I'm acutally R-L23-, R-L49+

rs2538852 = T (L277- ???)
rs9786140 = G (L51- ???)
rs9785831 = no data (L150)
rs9785971 = no data (L23)
rs9786142 = A (L49+)

Invisible Sun
01-05-2014, 09:08 PM
So, I'm acutally R-L23-, R-L49+

rs2538852 = T (L277- ???)
rs9786140 = G (???)


Ahah, you got a no call on L23 just like me! You are not negative to this SNP, the chip wasnīt able to read whether you are ancestral or derived, I think you are positive/derived. I got negative for M269, I had to do FTdna test in order to clarify a bit my haplogroup...as for the L277, if I am not wrong it is spread among populations like Assyrians and Jews, check here the position on the r1b tree:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?820-R1b-Early-Branching-Phylogeny-%28SNP-based-family-tree%29&p=15405&viewfull=1#post15405

We can say you are L23 (the unstable L49 is considered on the same position here), maybe Z2103 (not present on 23andme haplo tree); being of Anatolian origin this is no surprise, I wonder if I have the same paternal origin, I have an excess of West Caucasus alleles on various calculators...

---EDIT---

rs9786140 is the SNP L51, followed by L11 and then major western euro subclades (U106, S116 plus some brand new discovery)...on the philogenetic trees the picture is quite clear although in fieri...

Joe B
01-05-2014, 09:13 PM
So, I'm acutally R-L23-, R-L49+

rs2538852 = T (L277- ???)
rs9786140 = G (???)
Just checked my results at 23andme. L23 is a no call and L49 is positive. Looked up L277 and it is negative and that is confirmed by FTDNA. Invisible Sun's plan sounds just right. Testing for R1b-Z2103 to go along with the 67 STR test would be the best way to make up for 23andme Y-SNP deficiencies. Z2103 is not included with Geno 2.0 but is ā la carte thru FTDNA.

icebreaker
01-05-2014, 09:19 PM
I'm considering 67 STR -test. Based on my results i will order an extra test (Z2103 or geno). I'm kinda new, and have to say it's not easy to understand.

Joe B
01-05-2014, 09:29 PM
I'm considering 67 STR -test. Based on my results i will order an extra test (Z2103 or geno). I'm kinda new, and have to say it's not easy to understand.
You are doing great! Just to be clear, Z2103, Z2105, L277 and L584 are not included with Geno 2.0. Other SNPs that we are just now trying to understand are. It would not hurt to wait until you recieve your 67 STR test results and then order individual SNPs or Geno 2.0. It's all appreciated.

icebreaker
03-08-2014, 07:46 PM
Hi!

I got my 67 STR results. I've joined some projects (waiting for approval).

12 25 14 10 11-15 11 12 13 13 13 29 19 9-10 11 11 25 15 19 29 14-16-16-16 10 10 19-22 15 17 17 16 35-39 12 12 11 9 15-16 8 10 10 8 11 10 12 23-23 16 10 12 12 14 8 12 22 20 12 12 11 13 11 11 12 12

It looks I have only one match. It's 12 marker , 1 step. Pretty weird for a R1b, no?

Joe B
03-08-2014, 09:02 PM
Hi!

I got my 67 STR results. I've joined some projects (waiting for approval).

12 25 14 10 11-15 11 12 13 13 13 29 19 9-10 11 11 25 15 19 29 14-16-16-16 10 10 19-22 15 17 17 16 35-39 12 12 11 9 15-16 8 10 10 8 11 10 12 23-23 16 10 12 12 14 8 12 22 20 12 12 11 13 11 11 12 12

It looks I have only one match. It's 12 marker , 1 step. Pretty weird for a R1b, no?

Welcome back Icebreaker,
Glad Z2103 was not ordered as your markers line up with being L23-. If you check out the top of the R1b1a2 (P312- U106-) DNA Project (aka ht35 Project) - Y-DNA Colorized Chart (http://www.familytreedna.com/public/ht35new/default.aspx?section=ycolorized) page you will see the two groups that you may fit, _a. R1b1a2: L150.?+ L23- L51- L11- (also possibly PF7558+, PF7562+ & PF7563+) and _a. R1b1a2: L23- L51- L11-. Ordering Geno 2.0 is most likely the best choice for you right now. You may be R1b-M269+, L23-, L150+, Z2103- and that has caused phylogenetic heartburn to a number of people. The clue, although not absolute, is your DYS426=11.

icebreaker
03-08-2014, 10:50 PM
Welcome back Icebreaker,
Glad Z2103 was not ordered as your markers line up with being L23-. If you check out the top of the R1b1a2 (P312- U106-) DNA Project (aka ht35 Project) - Y-DNA Colorized Chart (http://www.familytreedna.com/public/ht35new/default.aspx?section=ycolorized) page you will see the two groups that you may fit, _a. R1b1a2: L150.?+ L23- L51- L11- (also possibly PF7558+, PF7562+ & PF7563+) and _a. R1b1a2: L23- L51- L11-. Ordering Geno 2.0 is most likely the best choice for you right now.

Nice to be here again :)

Geno 2.0 is a bit expensive, and it doesn't test some important(?) SNP's like Z2105. What if I order SNP tests seperately? Would you recommend that? If yes, which test should I order first?


You may be R1b-M269+, L23-, L150+, Z2103- and that has caused phylogenetic heartburn to a number of people. The clue, although not absolute, is your DYS426=11.

Why, what's the big deal?

VinceT
03-09-2014, 12:36 AM
Why, what's the big deal?
L150 has been providing some inconsistent results in the area of the tree near L23. It would perhaps be best to not rely on it as an indicator of haplogroup membership.

Joe B
03-09-2014, 04:56 AM
Nice to be here again :)

Geno 2.0 is a bit expensive, and it doesn't test some important(?) SNP's like Z2105. What if I order SNP tests seperately? Would you recommend that? If yes, which test should I order first?

Why, what's the big deal?You are correct in saying that Geno 2.0 has left out some important SNPs. BritainsDNA Chromo 2 has Z2105(Z3103 failed to work) but is an unknown quantity for this part of the R1b-tree. That said, Geno 2.0 has revealed three SNPs that may be important to you. PF7558, PF7562 and PF7563 may be indicators for the L150.?+ L23- haplogroup. They are available from FTDNA or I bet Thomas Krahn at YSEQ could test them too.
Seferhabahir did some work on this last summer and indicates that PF7563 may be the best of the three to test for haplogroup membership.

I see that PF7558, PF7562 and PF7563 are now available as standalone SNP tests from FTDNA at $39 apiece. According to Thomas Krahn, PF7563 is probably the best bet (the least ambiguous test result) since the other two SNPs have very similar regions on the X chromosome. E16492 (Gashi) should order these three to see what happens and how broad these SNPs might be. Certainly it encompasses the Jewish M269xL23 group but maybe/probably also Gashi and anyone else that tests as L23- L150+.
Mike W's R1b Early Branching Phylogeny (SNP based family tree) is a great graphic to visualize this area of the tree. http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?820-R1b-Early-Branching-Phylogeny-%28SNP-based-family-tree%29&p=7312&viewfull=1#post7312
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17907527/R1b_Descendency_Tree.jpg

I'm following Vince's lead in regards to L150 not being a good haplogroup indicator. You can read all about it. Thread: 150? (R1b-P25>L389>P297>M269....) above, below or both or what else? (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1467-150-%28R1b-P25-gt-L389-gt-P297-gt-M269-%29-above-below-or-both-or-what-else) has most of the discussion.

Rathna
03-09-2014, 07:51 AM
Actually your haplotype is different from all the others found so far amongst the R-M269 (L150+/PF7558/PF7562/PF7563+) and it would be interesting to know your paternal origin. It could be from the Isles, where we have another interesting haplotype from.

If I have to chose a Test I'd opt for Chromo2 raw data, because it has two of these SNPs PF and could have many others marked S, as no one R-M269* has been tested so far for Chromo2. Geno 2.0 couldn't say any more so far.

Rathna
03-09-2014, 09:39 AM
Hi,

Thank you, I will read them. My paternal great-grandfather is Laz (1/8). Rest of my family is Turkish.


Thus yours is an R-M269* from Caucasus. Very interesting. Your haplotype had some link with the Irish one, but is different in other markers values, for this is interesting, because they seem both peripheral as to a centrum and demonstrate once more that it isn't true that R-M269* is recent: it is almost uniform in the centrum but not in the whole. Also for this an Chromo2 would be interesting, of course because the cheaper one. Of course an Big Y or Full Y would be better.

icebreaker
03-09-2014, 02:10 PM
Geno, chromo,big y, full y.. Those are all expensive and I have to send my dna all over again. I just want to order one or two SNP's from ftdna. Which one should I order?

GTC
03-09-2014, 02:33 PM
Geno, chromo,big y, full y.. Those are all expensive and I have to send my dna all over again. I just want to order one or two SNP's from ftdna. Which one should I order?

Yes, which one is the question, but if you test individual SNPs on a losing strategy* the cost soon adds up to where (say) Chomo2 works out to be more economical.

(*Finding a run of negatives is still instructive, but most folks want to hit positives straight away.)

Rathna
03-09-2014, 02:57 PM
Geno, chromo,big y, full y.. Those are all expensive and I have to send my dna all over again. I just want to order one or two SNP's from ftdna. Which one should I order?

1 FTDNA SNP is 39$, two are 78$. Chromo2 Y raw data was 129Ģ, it was 109 for old customers, and tests about 15,000 SNPs. I think you should ask for a subscription and I'd be glad to participate. Unfortunately a subscription for Chromo2 isn't easy like for FTDNA.
To test 1 or 2 SNPs I think is useless, even because we don't know any SNPs beyond L150+, PF7558+, PF7562+, PF7563+ (for which you are positive very likely) but Chromo2 could demonstrate some other SNPs unknown so far.
But probably it is better that you wait for the Big y and Full Y results. After we'll be able to know which single SNP to test. So far your 67 markers are the best thing, because demonstrate that R-M269 was present in the Caucasus, even though rarely, and your haplotype has nothing to do with the Jewish one.
Probably your haplotype is linked to the Armenian ones:
R1b1a2* M269+ L49- L23-
174259 Tour-Sarkissian, Hadjin, Turkey Turkey R1b1a2
12 24 15 10 11-14 11 13 13 13 13 29 19 9-10 11 11 24 15 19 27 15-15-17-17 11 11 19-23 15 15 17 17 35-37 13 12 11 9 15-16 8 10 10 8 11 10 12 23-23 16 10 12 12 17 8 13 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12

icebreaker
03-09-2014, 03:20 PM
It's frustrating when you invest money but don't get the results. I have ordered Family Finder didn't get any matches. Then I ordered 67 STR test, only one match (12 marker, step1). If I order big y or something similar, it's like investing for the future.

There are more Armenians tested than all other people from Caucasus together. Lets hope those other people from the region participate too.

Kwheaton
03-09-2014, 03:28 PM
Icebreaker,

I am new to this conversation but taking the broad view......as all the Big Y results and Full genome sequence results filter in I think if you can hold on a few weeks or months you will be able to make a more judicious decision on what test(s) will be most informative and economical. I also think it likely that FTDNA will reintroduce some type of reinvented Deep Clade testing as might Full Genomes so rather than go on a SNP chasing hunt you might start putting $25 a month aside to do a more comprehensive test in a few months.

Since you mentioned not understanding it all...this is pretty rudimentary but may be of some help.
https://sites.google.com/site/wheatonsurname/beginners-guide-to-genetic-genealogy/lesson-three-exploring-the-y-part-one.
and the lessons that follow it. And then finally
https://sites.google.com/site/wheatonsurname/beginners-guide-to-genetic-genealogy/lesson-14-more-with-the-y
And the lesson that follows it.

Good luck!

icebreaker
05-14-2014, 02:02 PM
My L23 SNP test came back negative. 23andme says i'm positive(?) for L49. Now I heard those SNP's are the same. How can this happen?

Joe B
05-14-2014, 04:04 PM
My L23 SNP test came back negative. 23andme says i'm positive(?) for L49. Now I heard those SNP's are the same. How can this happen?
Thanks icebreaker, you and Pillar of Fire have confirmed that L49 is not a very reliable SNP for the 23andme test. How does this happen? Nothing is perfect. L23 and L49 are not the same SNP, they are just on the same phylogenetic level. Fortunately, we have other SNPs to work with such as PF7563.
http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1467-150-%28R1b-P25-gt-L389-gt-P297-gt-M269-%29-above-below-or-both-or-what-else&p=35374&viewfull=1#post35374

I post here in this thread -

we have two samples in R1b that split L23 and L49

274480 is L23- and L49+
N112116 is L23+ and L49-

of course they are on different branches.... but ......
http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1727-R1b-phylogeny&p=39079&viewfull=1#post39079

icebreaker
05-14-2014, 04:22 PM
Thanks a lot.

Invisible Sun
05-14-2014, 04:26 PM
My L23 SNP test came back negative. 23andme says i'm positive(?) for L49. Now I heard those SNP's are the same. How can this happen?

Urgh, L49 is really tricky for my personal experience too. Btw your STR values pointed already to L23-. Reading more carefully Adriano Squecco notes, I learned that L23 was tested only on V2 chip, so it was not a real No Call for us.

Just for curiosity, try to browse on 23&me your L478/PF6403 value (rs7892842), you should be negative/ancestral (A) like me. Here is smalīs map where L478 is on the same line with L23:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1586-From-R-L23-L150-to-R-PF7580-amp-L584&p=22598&viewfull=1#post22598

Good luck with your terminal SNP :)

icebreaker
05-14-2014, 04:33 PM
You are right!

Gene intergenic
Position 3274923
SNP rs7892842
Versions A or C
My Genotype A

I think I will order PF7563.

icebreaker
05-14-2014, 04:37 PM
Urgh, L49 is really tricky for my personal experience too. Btw your STR values pointed already to L23-. Reading more carefully Adriano Squecco notes, I learned that L23 was tested only on V2 chip, so it was not a real No Call for us.

Just for curiosity, try to browse on 23&me your L478/PF6403 value (rs7892842), you should be negative/ancestral (A) like me. Here is smalīs map where L478 is on the same line with L23:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1586-From-R-L23-L150-to-R-PF7580-amp-L584&p=22598&viewfull=1#post22598

Good luck with your terminal SNP :)

Which SNP should I order?

Invisible Sun
05-14-2014, 04:50 PM
Which SNP should I order?

unfortunately I am one of the worst posters here, but soon someone into early R1b stuff will tell you, I bet ;) in the meanwhile try to download at y-str.org the following tools, I just discovered them, quite useful! Maybe you can find some other SNP around M269, I have too many no calls on the upper R1b tree :(

http://www.y-str.org/2014/04/23andme-to-ysnps.html

http://www.y-str.org/2014/04/isogg-y-tree-addon-for-google-chrome.html

Joe B
05-14-2014, 04:56 PM
Which SNP should I order?
Stick with PF7563 for now. If you are positive, PF7566 or PF7569 should be tested next. Big thanks for testing! DYS426=11 is a strong indicator that you may belong in the _a1. R1b-M269>PF7558+, PF7562+, PF7563+ (L150.? = L23-, L150+) group of the R1b1a2 (P312- U106-) DNA Project (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/ht35new/default.aspx?section=ycolorized)
1869

icebreaker
05-14-2014, 05:07 PM
Stick with PF7563 for now. If you are positive, PF7566 or PF7569 should be tested next. Big thanks for testing! DYS426=11 is a strong indicator that you may belong in the _a1. R1b-M269>PF7558+, PF7562+, PF7563+ (L150.? = L23-, L150+) group of the R1b1a2 (P312- U106-) DNA Project (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/ht35new/default.aspx?section=ycolorized)
1869

Okay.
If negative, I'm done with testings untill I order BIG-Y or geno 3.0 ?

Joe B
05-14-2014, 05:21 PM
Okay.
If negative, I'm done with testings untill I order BIG-Y or geno 3.0 ?
You'll give everybody a headache if you are negative for PF7563.

icebreaker
06-10-2014, 11:42 AM
PF7563 came back negative!

Joe B
06-10-2014, 04:43 PM
You'll give everybody a headache if you are negative for PF7563.

PF7563 came back negative!
Thanks for taking the PF7563 SNP test. That PF7563- is surprising and may add to what is known about your section of the phylogenetic tree. FTDNA predicted R-M269 and tested L23-, PF7563- could indicate a different clade from the R-M269+, L23-, L150+, PF7563+.
Several things to consider before your next test.
FTDNA could be wrong with your haplogroup prediction, doubtful since 23andme has you L49+.
Testing for L150 would make sense for the next single SNP test. I don't like SNP L150, but your case may prove it to be a useful SNP.
Since there is so much to learn about your area of the R-tree, perhaps a SNP array test such as Geno 2.0 or Chrome 2.0 will find your clade if your SNPs have already been discovered. Better yet, Next Generation Sequencing with Big Y or FGC will discover your haplogroup if academia hasn't already.
Hopefully, somebody with better knowledge of this area of the tree can help.

Edit:226720 is PF7562+, L150+, L277-, Z2105-
PF7562 is thought to be on the same phylogenetic level as PF7563.

icebreaker
06-11-2014, 06:40 PM
Okay, thanks.

icebreaker
07-28-2014, 11:47 AM
Hello

M269 came back positive.I am now M269+ L23- PF7563-

@Joe B
You can't accept new pm until you clear some space.

smal
07-28-2014, 12:08 PM
You can 1) order PF7558 and PF7562, 2) order BigY (best choice), or 3) wait for new BigY data from the R-M269+ L23- line.

Humanist
07-28-2014, 12:11 PM
You can 1) order PF7558 and PF7562, 2) order BigY (best choice), or 3) wait for new BigY data from the R-M269+ L23- line.

Hi smal. What about the below option?


The Y Prime product has launched at $599/sample. Our analyses of the beta test suggest that the results will have at least 90% of the coverage of the FGC BGI test, which is currently $999.

Where FGC Elite (BGI) = 100%

Elite = 100
Y Prime = 90 or better
Big Y = 65

Y Prime uses a lab based in the United States, while Y Elite uses BGI, based in Hong Kong

smal
07-28-2014, 12:47 PM
What about the below option?

I think if a length of NGS reads in YPrime test is 150-160 bp then this new test is better choice.

Joe B
07-28-2014, 03:36 PM
You can 1) order PF7558 and PF7562, 2) order BigY (best choice), or 3) wait for new BigY data from the R-M269+ L23- line.
Does anybody know if Big Y covers PF7558, PF7562 and PF7563?

icebreaker, you may have found an unknown branch of R1b-M269. Sanger sequencing PF7558 and PF7562 would be a quick way to establish that. Ultimately, you will want to do as smal suggested and get some form of NGS testing like Big Y or Y Prime for SNP discovery. This is good stuff and thank you for testing.

vettor
08-28-2014, 06:39 PM
My brother-inlaw told me he was tested and said he was
R1b1b2a1a

He asked me what he should test......I have no clue ................can anyone recommend a SNP for this
I can't even find it in isogg R

ArmandoR1b
08-28-2014, 07:50 PM
My brother-inlaw told me he was tested and said he was
R1b1b2a1a

He asked me what he should test......I have no clue ................can anyone recommend a SNP for this
I can't even find it in isogg R

R1b1b2a1a is from the 2010 tree http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR10.html

He probably tested with 23andme which didn't test P312 and DF27 but did test U106, L21, and U152. He should test for P312 and DF27 if he doesn't want to go with a comprehensive test.

vettor
08-29-2014, 07:00 AM
R1b1b2a1a is from the 2010 tree http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR10.html

He probably tested with 23andme which didn't test P312 and DF27 but did test U106, L21, and U152. He should test for P312 and DF27 if he doesn't want to go with a comprehensive test.

so he has
R1b1b2a1a L11/S127, L52, L151, P310/S129, P311/S128

P312 ....maybe, I cant see why, but why not L48 to eliminate the d branch.

where is DF27...is it new?

ArmandoR1b
08-29-2014, 07:42 AM
so he has
R1b1b2a1a L11/S127, L52, L151, P310/S129, P311/S128

P312 ....maybe, I cant see why, but why not L48 to eliminate the d branch.

where is DF27...is it new?

L48 is below U106. If he tested with 23andme and he is R1b1b2a1a he is negative for U106 and all descending SNPs. It would be a waste of money to order anything below U106, U152, and L21.

DF27 is a new marker published in Rocca et al. http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0041634

DF27 is on the 2014 ISOGG tree. http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR.html.

ADW_1981
09-04-2014, 01:59 AM
My brother-inlaw told me he was tested and said he was
R1b1b2a1a

He asked me what he should test......I have no clue ................can anyone recommend a SNP for this
I can't even find it in isogg R

He's most likely DF27 and/or something below it. What's his ethnicity? If he tested with 23andMe P312+ isn't on the newer chips, and of course, none of the "new" SNPs defining between DF27 and M153 are not present. (which aren't really new anymore)

ArmandoR1b
09-04-2014, 12:02 PM
He's most likely DF27 and/or something below it. What's his ethnicity? If he tested with 23andMe P312+ isn't on the newer chips, and of course, none of the "new" SNPs defining between DF27 and M153 are not present. (which aren't really new anymore)

It was already covered that 23andme didn't test for P312 and DF27 and that he should test for those. See post #56 http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1826-Help-with-r1b-sublcade-%28r1b1b2a%29&p=49895&viewfull=1#post49895

There are a lot of people that are terminal for DF27 so that will also be a possibility. There are also other markers below DF27 that are not between DF27 and M153. There are a lot of people that are terminal for L176.2 Those always need to be taken into consideration. See Mike's diagram at https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17907527/R1b-DF27_Descendency_Tree.jpg

His brother-in-law would have to order a DF27 test or a comprehensive test that included markers downstream from DF27 for any of that to matter. Although DF27 is more common in Iberia there is a significant number of people with ancestry from outside Iberia that are DF27+.

DF27 wasn't announced until July 2012 http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0041634 and the DF27 wasn't created until July 2013. DF27 still isn't included on new tests even when the Rocca et al publication is referenced. http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?3100-DF27-in-Catalonia-Valencia-and-the-Balearic-Islands-%28Spain%29 So yes, DF27 is a new marker when we take into consideration how long most of the other markers such as U106, L21, and U152 have been known about.

icebreaker
12-12-2014, 09:21 PM
I'm excited to announce i've ordered big-y!

I think my results will be interesting because:

a) I belong, from what we know today, to the oldest sublcade of M269 (already tested negative for L23 and PF7563)
b) My paternal line is from Eastern Anatolia (Trabzon/Of). According to Eupedia's map of migration of R1b, it's the place where M269 was born and have expanded to other parts

http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/R1b-migration-map.jpg

Humanist
12-12-2014, 09:45 PM
I'm excited to announce i've ordered big-y!

Congrats! Looking forward to your results.

Ebizur
12-12-2014, 10:18 PM
That's great, icebreaker! I hope your results will reveal something interesting about your particular R1b lineage. Remember: it's not really "basal," it's just "different" (from the overwhelmingly populous subclades of R1b that predominate among present-day Western Europeans).

I would also like to plead for at least one person who belongs to Y-DNA haplogroup L1b-M317 (former L2) to take the plunge and order the BigY test. The managers of the YFull tree appear to lack any data regarding the placement of L1b-M317, and this lacuna has not been addressed by Hallast et al. (2014). Perhaps someone might even be willing to donate some money to help fund the testing.

Joe B
12-12-2014, 11:19 PM
I'm excited to announce i've ordered big-y!

I think my results will be interesting because:

a) I belong, from what we know today, to the oldest sublcade of M269 (already tested negative for L23 and PF7563)
b) My paternal line is from Eastern Anatolia (Trabzon/Of). According to Eupedia's map of migration of R1b, it's the place where M269 was born and have expanded to other parts
Thank you for ordering the Big Y test. It will be very valuable in helping to define the earliest branching to R1b-M269. I think your haplotype represents the earliest R1b-M269 branch known so far. We may never know where R1b-M269 got it's start. But if I had to pick a spot for fun, Trabzon would be good. It's geography and sea effect precipitation would make it an excellent refugium during climatic episodes like the 5.9 kiloyear event.

rick_r
12-13-2014, 02:24 AM
23 and me shows my results as L23 null. L49+ though.

icebreaker
01-30-2015, 06:37 PM
I just got my big-y results!

CTS4244+, M269+, CTS11985+, CTS12478+, CTS2664+, CTS3063+, F1209+, CTS3575+, CTS3654+, CTS3358+, F313+, F3692+, F719+, F82+, L132+, L138+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L265+, L278+, L350+, L407+, L389+, L468+, L470+, L482+, L483+, L498+, L500+, L502+, L506+, L747+, L752+, L754+, L761+, L768+, L773+, L779+, L82+, M94+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P225+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, L585+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M235+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, M415+, M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, P316+, PF2591+, PF2608+, PF2611+, PF2615+, PF2747+, PF2748+, PF2749+, PF2770+, V241+, V250+, PF5869+, PF5871+, PF5882+, PF5886+, PF5888+, PF5953+, PF5956+, PF5957+, PF5964+, PF5965+, PF5982+, PF6246+, PF6249+, PF6250+, PF6263+, PF6270+, PF6271+, PF6272+, PF6409+, PF6425+, PF6430+, PF6432+, PF6434+, PF6438+, PF6443+, PF6463+, PF6494+, PF6495+, PF6498+, PF6500+, PF6506+, PF6507+, PF6509+, PF6524+, PAGES00081+, PAGES00083+, PF3561+, PAGES00026+, PAGES00072-, PF3988-, PF4142-, PF4280-, PF4354-, PF4367-, PF5236-, PF1023-, PF2028-, PF2462-, PF257-, PF6610-, PF6714-, PF7301-, PF7589-, PF7610-, PF7623-, PF910-, S42-, SRY2627-, U106-, U152-, U198-, YSC0000002-, Z11-, Z12-, Z143-, Z148-, Z149-, Z156-, Z160-, Z194-, Z195-, Z199-, Z202-, Z203-, Z204-, Z205-, Z207-, Z212-, Z214-, Z22-, Z220-, Z223-, Z224-, Z227-, Z229-, Z231-, Z233-, Z234-, Z236-, Z24-, Z240-, Z241-, Z242-, Z248-, Z25-, Z253-, Z255-, Z259-, Z26-, Z264-, Z266-, Z268-, Z269-, Z273-, Z274-, Z276-, Z278-, Z279-, Z28-, Z29-, Z290-, Z295-, Z30-, Z306-, Z307-, Z31-, Z319-, Z325-, Z326-, Z329-, Z330-, Z333-, Z334-, Z335-, Z336-, Z337-, Z341-, Z343-, Z344-, Z347-, Z348-, Z350-, Z367-, Z37-, Z372-, Z38-, Z381-, Z44-, Z46-, Z48-, Z51-, Z52-, Z54-, Z57-, Z65-, Z72-, Z9-, PF3292-, P329-, P61-, P66-, M93-, M75-, M481-, M323-, M222-, M226-, L627-, L643-, L671-, L679-, L719-, P310-, P311-, P312-, L96-, M153-, L51-, L513-, L52-, L552-, L554-, L562-, L580-, L493-, L477-, L48-, L47-, L4-, L44-, L45-, L46-, L466-, L371-, L270-, L163-, L164-, L165-, L193-, L194-, L196-, L20-, L200-, L21-, L217-, L226-, L23-, L237-, L238-, L25-, L257-, L144-, L1444-, L148-, L135-, L23-, PF7563-, L1-, L1066-, L11-, L127-, L130-, F3799-, F3916-, F3952-, F4006-, F4205-, F499-, F3161-, F3198-, F3372-, CTS3386-, CTS3409-, CTS3413-, CTS3437-, CTS3655-, CTS3771-, CTS3866-, CTS3936-, CTS4015-, CTS4065-, CTS4069-, CTS4188-, F1230-, F1287-, F1398-, F1400-, F1643-, F1697-, F1881-, F1947-, F1948-, F1969-, F1993-, F2083-, F2107-, F2229-, F2421-, F2513-, F2536-, F2610-, F2691-, F2735-, F2863-, CTS3080-, CTS3087-, CTS319-, CTS2687-, CTS2752-, CTS278-, CTS2791-, CTS1640-, CTS1751-, CTS1848-, CTS188-, CTS1970-, CTS234-, CTS2376-, CTS2457-, CTS2469-, CTS2501-, CTS2509-, CTS10009-, CTS10334-, CTS1034-, CTS1039-, CTS10429-, CTS10488-, CTS10504-, CTS10641-, CTS10855-, CTS10893-, CTS11022-, CTS11232-, CTS11381-, CTS11459-, CTS11548-, CTS11567-, CTS11712-, CTS11767-, CTS11874-, CTS4299-, CTS4333-, CTS4466-, CTS4521-, CTS4528-, CTS4559-, CTS468-, CTS4716-, CTS5029-, CTS5153-, CTS5284-, CTS5478-, CTS5481-, CTS5531-, CTS5603-, CTS5689-, CTS5714-, CTS6-, CTS603-, CTS606-, CTS6253-, CTS6286-, CTS6353-, CTS6452-, CTS6524-, CTS667-, CTS6838-, CTS6854-, CTS6889-, CTS6911-, CTS6919-, CTS6937-, CTS6942-, CTS6975-, CTS699-, CTS7013-, CTS7080-, CTS7193-, CTS7325-, CTS7416-, CTS7491-, CTS7542-, CTS7618-, CTS7759-, CTS7763-, CTS7768-, CTS7822-, CTS7925-, CTS7927-, CTS7958-, CTS7959-, CTS7970-, CTS8002-, CTS8125-, CTS8137-, CTS8178-, CTS8234-, CTS8492-, CTS8516-, CTS8563-, CTS8580-, CTS8684-, CTS8845-, CTS8949-, CTS8966-, CTS9044-, CTS9193-, CTS9219-, CTS9230-, CTS9385-, CTS9454-, CTS9501-, CTS9715-, CTS9881-, CTS9906-, CTS9940-, DF13-, DF19-, DF21-, DF23-, DF25-, DF5-, DF63-, DF85-, DF97-, DF99-, F1036-

I've asked FTDNA to send me download link for the BAM-file. Is there anything else I should do? Btw, can anyone interprete the results already? Is there any surprise ?

Joe B
01-30-2015, 07:14 PM
I just got my big-y results!

CTS4244+, M269+, CTS11985+, CTS12478+, CTS2664+, CTS3063+, F1209+, CTS3575+, CTS3654+, CTS3358+, F313+, F3692+, F719+, F82+, L132+, L138+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L265+, L278+, L350+, L407+, L389+, L468+, L470+, L482+, L483+, L498+, L500+, L502+, L506+, L747+, L752+, L754+, L761+, L768+, L773+, L779+, L82+, M94+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P225+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, L585+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M235+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, M415+, M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, P316+, PF2591+, PF2608+, PF2611+, PF2615+, PF2747+, PF2748+, PF2749+, PF2770+, V241+, V250+, PF5869+, PF5871+, PF5882+, PF5886+, PF5888+, PF5953+, PF5956+, PF5957+, PF5964+, PF5965+, PF5982+, PF6246+, PF6249+, PF6250+, PF6263+, PF6270+, PF6271+, PF6272+, PF6409+, PF6425+, PF6430+, PF6432+, PF6434+, PF6438+, PF6443+, PF6463+, PF6494+, PF6495+, PF6498+, PF6500+, PF6506+, PF6507+, PF6509+, PF6524+, PAGES00081+, PAGES00083+, PF3561+, PAGES00026+, PAGES00072-, PF3988-, PF4142-, PF4280-, PF4354-, PF4367-, PF5236-, PF1023-, PF2028-, PF2462-, PF257-, PF6610-, PF6714-, PF7301-, PF7589-, PF7610-, PF7623-, PF910-, S42-, SRY2627-, U106-, U152-, U198-, YSC0000002-, Z11-, Z12-, Z143-, Z148-, Z149-, Z156-, Z160-, Z194-, Z195-, Z199-, Z202-, Z203-, Z204-, Z205-, Z207-, Z212-, Z214-, Z22-, Z220-, Z223-, Z224-, Z227-, Z229-, Z231-, Z233-, Z234-, Z236-, Z24-, Z240-, Z241-, Z242-, Z248-, Z25-, Z253-, Z255-, Z259-, Z26-, Z264-, Z266-, Z268-, Z269-, Z273-, Z274-, Z276-, Z278-, Z279-, Z28-, Z29-, Z290-, Z295-, Z30-, Z306-, Z307-, Z31-, Z319-, Z325-, Z326-, Z329-, Z330-, Z333-, Z334-, Z335-, Z336-, Z337-, Z341-, Z343-, Z344-, Z347-, Z348-, Z350-, Z367-, Z37-, Z372-, Z38-, Z381-, Z44-, Z46-, Z48-, Z51-, Z52-, Z54-, Z57-, Z65-, Z72-, Z9-, PF3292-, P329-, P61-, P66-, M93-, M75-, M481-, M323-, M222-, M226-, L627-, L643-, L671-, L679-, L719-, P310-, P311-, P312-, L96-, M153-, L51-, L513-, L52-, L552-, L554-, L562-, L580-, L493-, L477-, L48-, L47-, L4-, L44-, L45-, L46-, L466-, L371-, L270-, L163-, L164-, L165-, L193-, L194-, L196-, L20-, L200-, L21-, L217-, L226-, L23-, L237-, L238-, L25-, L257-, L144-, L1444-, L148-, L135-, L23-, PF7563-, L1-, L1066-, L11-, L127-, L130-, F3799-, F3916-, F3952-, F4006-, F4205-, F499-, F3161-, F3198-, F3372-, CTS3386-, CTS3409-, CTS3413-, CTS3437-, CTS3655-, CTS3771-, CTS3866-, CTS3936-, CTS4015-, CTS4065-, CTS4069-, CTS4188-, F1230-, F1287-, F1398-, F1400-, F1643-, F1697-, F1881-, F1947-, F1948-, F1969-, F1993-, F2083-, F2107-, F2229-, F2421-, F2513-, F2536-, F2610-, F2691-, F2735-, F2863-, CTS3080-, CTS3087-, CTS319-, CTS2687-, CTS2752-, CTS278-, CTS2791-, CTS1640-, CTS1751-, CTS1848-, CTS188-, CTS1970-, CTS234-, CTS2376-, CTS2457-, CTS2469-, CTS2501-, CTS2509-, CTS10009-, CTS10334-, CTS1034-, CTS1039-, CTS10429-, CTS10488-, CTS10504-, CTS10641-, CTS10855-, CTS10893-, CTS11022-, CTS11232-, CTS11381-, CTS11459-, CTS11548-, CTS11567-, CTS11712-, CTS11767-, CTS11874-, CTS4299-, CTS4333-, CTS4466-, CTS4521-, CTS4528-, CTS4559-, CTS468-, CTS4716-, CTS5029-, CTS5153-, CTS5284-, CTS5478-, CTS5481-, CTS5531-, CTS5603-, CTS5689-, CTS5714-, CTS6-, CTS603-, CTS606-, CTS6253-, CTS6286-, CTS6353-, CTS6452-, CTS6524-, CTS667-, CTS6838-, CTS6854-, CTS6889-, CTS6911-, CTS6919-, CTS6937-, CTS6942-, CTS6975-, CTS699-, CTS7013-, CTS7080-, CTS7193-, CTS7325-, CTS7416-, CTS7491-, CTS7542-, CTS7618-, CTS7759-, CTS7763-, CTS7768-, CTS7822-, CTS7925-, CTS7927-, CTS7958-, CTS7959-, CTS7970-, CTS8002-, CTS8125-, CTS8137-, CTS8178-, CTS8234-, CTS8492-, CTS8516-, CTS8563-, CTS8580-, CTS8684-, CTS8845-, CTS8949-, CTS8966-, CTS9044-, CTS9193-, CTS9219-, CTS9230-, CTS9385-, CTS9454-, CTS9501-, CTS9715-, CTS9881-, CTS9906-, CTS9940-, DF13-, DF19-, DF21-, DF23-, DF25-, DF5-, DF63-, DF85-, DF97-, DF99-, F1036-

I've asked FTDNA to send me download link for the BAM-file. Is there anything else I should do? Btw, can anyone interprete the results already? Is there any surprise ?
FTDNA does not list all of the important SNPs that they test for. Look at the Big Y results page under known SNPs and select all.
You have provided a surpise with PF7562+ and PF7563-. That means PF7562, PF7563 are not on the same level and your branch occured before the PF7563 mutation. That's good to know!

PF7558 is a "no call" by FTDNA.
L150+ is expected. This area of the tree was used to be identified as L23-, L150+.

ADW_1981
01-31-2015, 01:31 AM
http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/R1b-migration-map.jpg

I like this map, at least from central-Europe westwards. I'm not entire convince of an eastern Anatolian origin of M269, nor am I sold on a L23+ origin in the Balkans. The reality is likely further east IMHO, closer to the alleged origin of M73.

icebreaker
04-15-2015, 04:28 PM
My final results:

PF7558+, PF7562+, PF7563-, L23-

icebreaker
06-09-2015, 03:09 PM
Y-FULL has recently changed my place on their Tree. I was M269* now I belong to the same cluster like other person from Belarus (PF7562+). There is one thing I don't understand, he's PF7563+ while I'm PF7563-. Y-FULL should have created new cluster for that person but they didn't.. Any idea why?

http://www.yfull.com/tree/R-PF7562/

Joe B
06-09-2015, 04:35 PM
Y-FULL has recently changed my place on their Tree. I was M269* now I belong to the same cluster like other person from Belarus (PF7562+). There is one thing I don't understand, he's PF7563+ while I'm PF7563-. Y-FULL should have created new cluster for that person but they didn't.. Any idea why?

http://www.yfull.com/tree/R-PF7562/
Sometimes the YFULL tree will use different SNPs building their haplotree. My guess is they chose PF7562 because it's a SNP that you two have in common. They need that for a TMRCA. Based on that, they are predicting that R1b-PF7562 formed 6400 ybp and the TMRCA between you and the other guy is 5000 ybp.

smal
06-09-2015, 06:41 PM
Y-FULL has recently changed my place on their Tree. I was M269* now I belong to the same cluster like other person from Belarus (PF7562+). There is one thing I don't understand, he's PF7563+ while I'm PF7563-. Y-FULL should have created new cluster for that person but they didn't.. Any idea why?


YFull must have the second PF7563+ sample in order to add a new subclade. PF7563 is a private marker at the moment.

icebreaker
11-10-2015, 02:04 PM
Last time I checked my big-y results I had only 2 matches (with 1 known SNP difference). Now i have 5 matches. They are all PF7563+. I think they have jewish ancestry except one guy with the surname Sforza (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Sforza). I hope at least one of the 3 newcomers will upload their bam-file to yfull so we have a better tmrca calculation of PF7562. Because it doesn't look very accurate like it's now

http://www.yfull.com/tree-info/R-PF7562/
R-PF7562 (age: 5012 ybp) Formula: (3793+6232)/2
Branch ID Sample ID Number of SNPs Coverage (bp) Formula to correct SNPs number Corrected number of SNPs Formula to estimate age Age by this line only
YF03278 25.0 8189472 25.0/8189472*8467165 25.85 25.85*144.41+60 3793
YF02895 41.0 8122350 41.0/8122350*8467165 42.74 42.74*144.41+60 6232

I'm YF02895.

Anglo-Celtic DC
11-27-2015, 03:26 PM
I have a dumb question. According to 23andme I am R1b1b2a1a1. How does this compare with other naming conventions? For instance, I am reading Stephen Oppenheimer's Origins of the British, and he seems to use a different naming convention.

EDITED: I think I posted this in the wrong thread. Posting elsewhere.

smal
11-27-2015, 03:46 PM
R1b1b2a1a1 (23andme) = R-U106