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View Full Version : G-Z6653* in Lebanon: The origin?



Lupriac
09-09-2019, 01:04 PM
G-Z6653 (https://yfull.com/tree/G-Z6653/) dominates in the Caucasus and according to an anonymous source it's 12% in Georgia, and it's also present in Russia (on YFULL most of the samples are Russian). But how would this lineage reach Lebanon? Does anyone has a good explanation? Would be very thankful. Many thanks! :)

Artmar
09-11-2019, 07:48 AM
G-Z6653 (https://yfull.com/tree/G-Z6653/) dominates in the Caucasus and according to an anonymous source it's 12% in Georgia, and it's also present in Russia (on YFULL most of the samples are Russian). But how would this lineage reach Lebanon? Does anyone has a good explanation? Would be very thankful. Many thanks! :)
Keep in mind that these folks are not exactly ethnic Russian but going after locations and spread I see that they rather represent Caucasus people like Ossetians, Balkars (or Kabardins), Chechens and Circassians. There are also Tatars from Tatarstan and Georgians.

Considering that Georgians are under-represented at FTDNA and they not as eager/organised/financed to order Big Y test,I think that it is much more represented across the Georgia than the haplotree shows. Some subgroups of G-Z6653 could have played a significant role in forming proto-Kartvelian language group then. Part of these people could have adopted different languages over time (mostly turkic and iranic).

Sample in Lebanon may be either a result of migration to the Lebanon from the Caucasus or sharing common origins as an Anatolian farmer group.

Dewsloth
09-11-2019, 01:21 PM
In trying to track down the origin of my Lebanese 3rd great grandmother's mtDNA, I got back to the surname of "Nami." While it didn't help my search past that point, I did learn it was the surname of a well known Circassian in Lebanon. I think a population like Armenian or Circassian immigrant/refugees could be a possible source of Caucasus in modern Lebanon:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassians
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Nami

Lupriac
09-12-2019, 12:21 PM
In trying to track down the origin of my Lebanese 3rd great grandmother's mtDNA, I got back to the surname of "Nami." While it didn't help my search past that point, I did learn it was the surname of a well known Circassian in Lebanon. I think a population like Armenian or Circassian immigrant/refugees could be a possible source of Caucasus in modern Lebanon:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassians
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Nami

I doubt it's Circassian because this sample belongs to a well known Maronite family. It's descendants have been recorded since the 1290s. Plus it's G-Z6653* and does not belong to any down clades (in which the samples are Russian, Caucasian and Turks). I've been thinking of the people known as "Maradites" who's original homeland lies in Cilicia/Alexandretta.

Their territory stretched from the Amanus to the "holy city", the latter often identified as Jerusalem, although more likely to refer to Cyrrhus, also called Hagioupolis, the capital of Cyrrhestica, in upper Syria.

Ivanko
10-14-2019, 04:25 AM
I know that among the Greek Cypriots, different subclades of this haplogroup

iggush
12-18-2019, 10:22 PM
Message posted by mistake

iggush
12-18-2019, 10:33 PM
I doubt it's Circassian because this sample belongs to a well known Maronite family. It's descendants have been recorded since the 1290s. Plus it's G-Z6653* and does not belong to any down clades (in which the samples are Russian, Caucasian and Turks). I've been thinking of the people known as "Maradites" who's original homeland lies in Cilicia/Alexandretta.

Their territory stretched from the Amanus to the "holy city", the latter often identified as Jerusalem, although more likely to refer to Cyrrhus, also called Hagioupolis, the capital of Cyrrhestica, in upper Syria.


Plus it's G-Z6653* and does not belong to any down clades (in which the samples are Russian, Caucasian and Turks)

Hi!

I'd like to note that these people under Turkey flag are not actually the Turks. There is a note on Yfull that they both are from: "Trabzon" region. This region is neighbor to the West Georgia, and people that lives there are not actually Turks, they a Laz and their language is withing Kartvelian (Georgian) group. You can read about them here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laz_people

So all peoples inside G-Z6692 are from Caucasian Mountains.



I doubt it's Circassian because this sample belongs to a well known Maronite family. It's descendants have been recorded since the 1290s.

Well, that’s probably just a suggestion. But there is a possibility that this person takes his heritage from Mamluks. It is a term for Middle East slaves and rulers with West Caucasian origin (Circassians, Georgians and Abkhazians). You can read about them here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mamluk
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mamluk_Sultanate_(Cairo)

In short words: There was a tradition in Middle East Empires to kidnap the children's from West Caucasian then make them to become Muslims and train them as a commanders of their armies. Subsequently, a large number of these Mamluks reached tremendous political and military heights in these Middle East Empires. And tradition of kidnapping Caucasian highlanders existed even before 1290s.

Another reason for this theory is that if we go up another level and look at the G-Z6553 branch (https://yfull.com/tree/G-Z6553), we will find a person from the Caucasus (Ossetia), with YFull id: YF67025


in which the samples are Russian

And for sure there are not a single Russian person under this group. All of record with Russian flag is from Caucasian region, it's is very important to read the region hint on YFull. I hope you know that Russia conquered the northern part of the Caucasus Mountains. Links here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_War and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murid_War