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NetNomad
09-12-2019, 11:31 AM
A rare case of J1 from Somalia on yfull:

https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-ZS5383/

drobbah
09-12-2019, 06:35 PM
It's from Sanaag so I'll assume the person is Warsengali? That wouldn't be surprising since they were known for incorporating foreigners such as Yemenis and Indians due to their seafaring traditions.

There's a clan in another area of Eastern Somaliland that have been incoporated into the Habar Jeclo but are still genologically distinct and apparently they are Arabs/Indians.I think they are called Reer Dood.

NetNomad
09-12-2019, 07:40 PM
It's from Sanaag so I'll assume the person is Warsengali? That wouldn't be surprising since they were known for incorporating foreigners such as Yemenis and Indians due to their seafaring traditions.

There's a clan in another area of Eastern Somaliland that have been incoporated into the Habar Jeclo but are still genologically distinct and apparently they are Arabs/Indians.I think they are called Reer Dood.

Close, but he is actually from the Dhulbahante clan from what I gather. The few J1 cases in the Warsangeli also have this subclade (J-ZS8629 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-ZS5383/) / J-ZS8897). However, most Hartis seem to be of the E-Y163928 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y163928/) subclade.

Seems like many Somali clans have consistency problems if you sample deep enough.

When his analysis is finished he might form a subclade with sample YF63847 then we might get a TMRCA.

VytautusofAukstaitija
01-24-2020, 01:47 PM
Close, but he is actually from the Dhulbahante clan from what I gather. The few J1 cases in the Warsangeli also have this subclade (J-ZS8629 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-ZS5383/) / J-ZS8897). However, most Hartis seem to be of the E-Y163928 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y163928/) subclade.

Seems like many Somali clans have consistency problems if you sample deep enough.

When his analysis is finished he might form a subclade with sample YF63847 then we might get a TMRCA.

This was always going to be the case. Somali clans always did practice the assimilation of another subclan (toloobaan) but it is somewhat rare and usually the clan of those being assimilated are very against it.

It usually occured when the assimilated Somali subclan is at the brink of extinction or suffering horribly and are in need of kin, or they need protection whether for access to wells and in warfare and lack the number of males for a standoff.

Most of the time, the expectation is the subclan will remember their origin, so that they can later arise again and proclaim their true belonging and affiliation.

A good example is the Arab Salax - they are descended from a Mehri man (the Good Arab), who settled in the Somali territories in the last 500 years. His descendants became shegato or toloobeen with the Majerteen, and Siad Barre massacred them when he was massacering the Majerteen clansmen and nomads in Mudug and Bari in the late 70's since the Arab Salax were considered Majerteen.

It seemed the Sayyid knew the truth and did not consider them Majerteen, since he gave orders to attack the Majerteen clan but did not count the Arab Salax as amongst them, but probably but as their own clan, and even praised them as a clan. Alot of Majerteen fled the Sayyid and went to the Arab Salax and claimed to be Arab Salax, and Majerteen camels were merged and herded with the Arab Salax, and they settled in the nomadic camps of the Arab Salax in Mudug and Nugaal.

In the southern arena of the Somali migrations, almost every other clan became shegato, such as the Degodiye and Jidle, and some Sheikhaale and Hiraab Hawiye. But all I think came out of it and reconstituted themselves. Except for some Geri Koombe Darood who became Xawadle (I don't know if this occurred during the later migration period).

Another case of this is the Garxajis of Bari who lived amongst the Majerteen claimed they were Dir, but recently they said they are Garxajis. Some Dir in Bari are actually Dir, and remain so. This suggests this Dir = Isaaq thing is actually very old and not a civil war era invention. The current mrca of the Somali T samples, looks very agreeable to this.

I think Somali J will almost all be the Arab Salax J1-P58, and this Warsangeli-Dhulbahante J-ZS8897 clade, and they both are probably both the result of Islamic era Arab founders, like the Arab Salax J1-P58.

But the inland Ethiopian Somali J1 need their clans verified before this can be established. The Garre J1 are going to be the most out of place, but maybe of ultimate Ethiosemitic origin? The Arsi Oromo nearby have alot of J1, I think P56. And the Garre have some Oromo descended clans even in the Jubba-Shabelle hinterland, although not Arsi Oromos, but Warra Dayya I think.

Is it possible that the unknown Omotic J1 could be hiding in the Oromo and Arsi? Could this be another avenue for some J1 in Oromos and other Cushitic peoples and hunter gathers?

Advokaten19
01-24-2020, 06:22 PM
Do you receive paternal haplogroup only from your father? Do your mother fathers also give some components?

Advokaten19
01-24-2020, 06:28 PM
Wtf who in the world would a omotic hunter gatherer have j1?

NetNomad
01-30-2020, 09:53 PM
Wtf who in the world would a omotic hunter gatherer have j1?

It is not an Ethiopian hunter-gatherer lineage, only E-M329 really is without question. It came from the North (J1). Omotics have some other lineages associated with 'Northern' groups like E-M34 as well.

drobbah
01-31-2020, 01:03 AM
Perhaps the ancestors of these J1 individuals brought the Yemeni admixture that a significant portion of Somalis carry today.They could also be responsible for all the Sabean/Himyarite inscriptions in Somaliland

sum1
01-31-2020, 07:55 PM
Perhaps the ancestors of these J1 individuals brought the Yemeni admixture that a significant portion of Somalis carry today.They could also be responsible for all the Sabean/Himyarite inscriptions in Somaliland


What Yemeni admixture?

Somalis don't have any admixture.

drobbah
01-31-2020, 09:15 PM
What Yemeni admixture?

Somalis don't have any admixture.

Some of us do.For example I have 4-5% my mother has 8% and my old man has none

sum1
01-31-2020, 09:23 PM
Some of us do.For example I have 4-5% my mother has 8% and my old man has none


I don't think the Yemeni admixture that comes on admixture runs is genuine. Southern Cushites also show it as do other groups with no likely admixture.

I think the runs are trying to compensate for the low coverage natufian samples.

drobbah
01-31-2020, 09:44 PM
I don't think the Yemeni admixture that comes on admixture runs is genuine. Southern Cushites also show it as do other groups with no likely admixture.

I think the runs are trying to compensate for the low coverage natufian samples.

Well my mother and I still score ancient Iranian ancestry which is embedded in the Arabian populations and my father doesn't.The Southern Cushites and the ancients besides Early Pastoral don't score any aswell.From the 23 Somali samples I seen including me and my parents, only half carried Yemeni ancestry (we all preferred Al Jawf sample)

36111

sum1
02-01-2020, 06:28 PM
36131

The Early pastoralist does have some supposed ancestry as do Masai and other Nilo-Hamitic groups in Kenya even though they don't have any sort of Semitic admixture. The small amounts of Iranian/Yemeni like admixture is probably noise to account for low coverage Natufian samples.

It's even more apparent when using runs with Pen=0.01


"Masai:Average",

"fit": 3.7685,
"Dinka": 63.33,
"ETH_4500BP": 17.5,
"IRN_Seh_Gabi_C": 10,
"Levant_Natufian": 9.17,

drobbah
02-01-2020, 06:39 PM
36131

The Early pastoralist does have some supposed ancestry as do Masai and other Nilo-Hamitic groups in Kenya even though they don't have any sort of Semitic admixture. The small amounts of Iranian/Yemeni like admixture is probably noise to account for low coverage Natufian samples.

It's even more apparent when using runs with Pen=0.01


"Masai:Average",

"fit": 3.7685,
"Dinka": 63.33,
"ETH_4500BP": 17.5,
"IRN_Seh_Gabi_C": 10,
"Levant_Natufian": 9.17,

It's possible they gained this admixture via the Sudanese migrations into East Africa which explains why Nilotes and Nilotic admixed Cushites like the Rendille and the Tutsis gained Semitic admixture.

drobbah
02-01-2020, 07:01 PM
If you add Levant PPNC to the run you can clearly see there is a difference between the Somalis/Rendille and Sudanese migration affected Maasai/Iraqw



Target: Ayodo_35S
Distance: 5.6375% / 0.05637506
49.4 Dinka
40.8 Levant_Natufian
9.6 ETH_4500BP
0.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: SOMALI3
Distance: 4.8927% / 0.04892661
46.8 Dinka
43.8 Levant_Natufian
8.8 ETH_4500BP
0.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.2 Levant_PPNC

Target: SOMALI6
Distance: 5.0269% / 0.05026894
51.6 Dinka
43.0 Levant_Natufian
3.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.6 ETH_4500BP
0.6 Levant_PPNC

Target: Ayodo_35S
Distance: 5.6375% / 0.05637506
49.4 Dinka
40.8 Levant_Natufian
9.6 ETH_4500BP
0.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Ayodo_23S
Distance: 5.3833% / 0.05383300
48.4 Dinka
41.6 Levant_Natufian
10.0 ETH_4500BP

Target: Father_scaled
Distance: 5.5625% / 0.05562519
48.6 Dinka
42.8 Levant_Natufian
8.2 ETH_4500BP
0.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Hoyoo_scaled
Distance: 5.5369% / 0.05536932
51.2 Dinka
43.2 Levant_Natufian
3.4 ETH_4500BP
1.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.8 Levant_PPNC

Target: Drobbah_scaled
Distance: 5.1736% / 0.05173607
45.6 Dinka
42.2 Levant_Natufian
11.0 ETH_4500BP
1.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: SOMALI4
Distance: 4.6396% / 0.04639564
49.2 Dinka
42.4 Levant_Natufian
5.6 ETH_4500BP
2.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: SOMALI15
Distance: 5.5921% / 0.05592070
52.2 Dinka
45.8 Levant_Natufian
2.0 ETH_4500BP



Rendille



Target: Rendille:T_Rendille-2.DG
Distance: 4.5091% / 0.04509094
55.0 Dinka
37.4 Levant_Natufian
6.6 ETH_4500BP
1.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Rendille:T_Rendille-1.DG
Distance: 5.1548% / 0.05154830
50.0 Dinka
37.4 Levant_Natufian
10.8 ETH_4500BP
1.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N




Masai & Iraqw


Target: Masai:Ayodo_101M
Distance: 2.1055% / 0.02105471
69.4 Dinka
13.4 Levant_Natufian
12.0 ETH_4500BP
2.8 Levant_PPNC
2.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Masai:Ayodo_103M
Distance: 2.7052% / 0.02705160
72.6 Dinka
9.8 Levant_PPNC
8.6 ETH_4500BP
7.2 Levant_Natufian
1.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Masai:NA21400
Distance: 3.9047% / 0.03904660
63.4 Dinka
15.8 ETH_4500BP
14.4 Levant_Natufian
6.4 Levant_PPNC

Target: Masai:NA21425
Distance: 7.5441% / 0.07544149
64.8 Dinka
20.2 Levant_Natufian
13.6 ETH_4500BP
1.4 Levant_PPNC

Target: Masai:NA21487
Distance: 2.6277% / 0.02627732
65.0 Dinka
17.0 ETH_4500BP
12.2 Levant_PPNC
5.8 Levant_Natufian

Target: Masai:NA21514
Distance: 4.5103% / 0.04510270
59.0 Dinka
16.2 ETH_4500BP
11.2 Levant_PPNC
9.4 Levant_Natufian
4.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Masai:NA21581
Distance: 4.3250% / 0.04325047
66.0 Dinka
14.8 ETH_4500BP
14.4 Levant_PPNC
4.8 Levant_Natufian

Target: Masai:NA21648
Distance: 4.3191% / 0.04319102
68.4 Dinka
16.6 Levant_Natufian
10.4 ETH_4500BP
3.4 Levant_PPNC
1.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Iraqw:T_Iraqw-2.DG
Distance: 2.6739% / 0.02673948
35.4 Dinka
31.6 ETH_4500BP
30.6 Levant_Natufian
2.4 Levant_PPNC

Target: Iraqw:T_Iraqw-1.DG
Distance: 4.0734% / 0.04073410
36.6 Dinka
31.4 Levant_Natufian
29.8 ETH_4500BP
1.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.0 Levant_PPNC






Check the difference between Iron age Nilotic speakers and Cushitic speakers in SE Africa




Target: KEN_IA_Deloraine (Nilotes)
Distance: 10.8395% / 0.10839518
86.8 Dinka
8.0 Levant_JOR_EBA
4.8 ETH_4500BP
0.4 Levant_PPNC

Target: KEN_Pastoral_IA (Cushitic)
Distance: 3.5892% / 0.03589239
60.6 Dinka
25.4 Levant_Natufian
14.0 ETH_4500BP



Adding Ken LSA

Target: KEN_Pastoral_IA
Distance: 3.5892% / 0.03589239
60.6 Dinka
25.4 Levant_Natufian
14.0 ETH_4500BP

Target: KEN_IA_Deloraine
Distance: 10.5352% / 0.10535173
75.2 Dinka
17.4 KEN_LSA
6.0 Levant_JOR_EBA
1.4 Levant_PPNC

sum1
02-01-2020, 07:06 PM
The proportions allotted to Iranian like admixture are too high, the Eurasian DNA embedded in the Sudanese migration would have likely harboured a substantial Natufian like element and thus such substantial Iranian like admixture is unlikely IMO.

Also, the early pastoralists are still seeing the admixture which probably means it likely noise rather than actual admixture.


"KEN_Early_Pastoral_N:Average",

"fit": 5.4545,
"Levant_Natufian": 50.83,
"Dinka": 25,
"ETH_4500BP": 21.67,
"IRN_Seh_Gabi_C": 2.5

drobbah
02-01-2020, 07:16 PM
The proportions allotted to Iranian like admixture are too high, the Eurasian DNA embedded in the Sudanese migration would have likely harboured a substantial Natufian like element and thus such substantial Iranian like admixture is unlikely IMO.

Also, the early pastoralists are still seeing the admixture which probably means it likely noise rather than actual admixture.


"KEN_Early_Pastoral_N:Average",

"fit": 5.4545,
"Levant_Natufian": 50.83,
"Dinka": 25,
"ETH_4500BP": 21.67,
"IRN_Seh_Gabi_C": 2.5

The early pastoralist is the outlier but the rest of the pastoralists score none at all including the Cushitic Iron age sample.

Unsurprisingly four of the Masai also score Neolithic Anatolian unlike the Cushitic speakers of the Horn.It goes to show that Iranian admixture in Horners came from Arabia (low to no anatolian whatsoever) and the Sudanese Nilotes gained direct Levantine/Egyptian ancestry who carry substantial Anatolian ancestry.



Target: Masai:NA21581
Distance: 4.4471% / 0.04447104
66.2 Dinka
14.8 Levant_Natufian
14.2 ETH_4500BP
4.6 Anatolia_Barcin_N
0.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Masai:NA21514
Distance: 4.4764% / 0.04476418
59.8 Dinka
15.4 Levant_Natufian
15.2 ETH_4500BP
3.8 Anatolia_Barcin_N
3.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
2.8 Anatolia_Barcin_C

Target: Masai:NA21487
Distance: 2.7939% / 0.02793916
65.6 Dinka
15.2 Levant_Natufian
15.0 ETH_4500BP
1.8 Anatolia_Barcin_N
1.6 Anatolia_Barcin_C
0.8 KEN_LSA

Mnemonics
02-02-2020, 06:39 PM
I just noticed that when you use the individual data sheet samples, all Somalis show a strong preference for TKM_Gonur1_BA over all neolithic Iranians, particularly the I2116 sample. Is it a poor coverage sample or something? Even the Wolayta are also showing this preference.

FamBamjjj
04-27-2020, 06:26 PM
J1 is being found amongst Somalis and it’s mainly from those who claim a darood connection. So far 4 samples on Family trees Somali project have J1, and based on their markers, all link to the Banu jabr of Yemen/Oman/ and Saudi etc. I’ve spoken to the admin in one of the Arab projects who lives in Saudi Arabia and he is adamant these samples are distant relatives of the Banu Jabr of Khawlan who may have a connection to queen Saba/Sheeba/bilqiis. I have a feeling the Jabarti story may be of these people and not the story of 77% of our typical Somali YDNA E-M35 or E-V32. Based on my studies, Darood and Hawiyas link 2800 years ago and mainly carry E-V32. They descend(ydna) from North Africa (Ancient Egyptian Sudanese Kush empires). Based on these findings, it’s truly disheartening the thousands upon thousands of people who were ruthlessly murdered over the senseless clan wars. To move towards peace, DNA and historical studies are truly needed to compare our history to the scientific findings and rearrange and write our own TRUE story. Men from all across the horn and the Arabian peninsula have fought against colonial powers and fought to spread Islam under 1 banner and brotherhood. However, we were pitted against each other and let our ancestors die in vain.

Regardless of YDNA lines, most Somalis have the same automosal DNA makeup in test like ancestry DNA and 23 and Me. Whether they carry a E, T, J, or whatever, they all have mainly Somali DNA.

drobbah
04-27-2020, 07:32 PM
J1 is being found amongst Somalis and it’s mainly from those who claim a darood connection. So far 4 samples on Family trees Somali project have J1, and based on their markers, all link to the Banu jabr of Yemen/Oman/ and Saudi etc. I’ve spoken to the admin in one of the Arab projects who lives in Saudi Arabia and he is adamant these samples are distant relatives of the Banu Jabr of Khawlan who may have a connection to queen Saba/Sheeba/bilqiis. I have a feeling the Jabarti story may be of these people and not the story of 77% of our typical Somali YDNA E-M35 or E-V32. Based on my studies, Darood and Hawiyas link 2800 years ago and mainly carry E-V32. They descend(ydna) from North Africa (Ancient Egyptian Sudanese Kush empires). Based on these findings, it’s truly disheartening the thousands upon thousands of people who were ruthlessly murdered over the senseless clan wars. To move towards peace, DNA and historical studies are truly needed to compare our history to the scientific findings and rearrange and write our own TRUE story. Men from all across the horn and the Arabian peninsula have fought against colonial powers and fought to spread Islam under 1 banner and brotherhood. However, we were pitted against each other and let our ancestors die in vain.

Regardless of YDNA lines, most Somalis have the same automosal DNA makeup in test like ancestry DNA and 23 and Me. Whether they carry a E, T, J, or whatever, they all have mainly Somali DNA.

The Darood story of origins in Arabia is a myth but perhaps the Darood clan and their founder was real as their BigY results suggests. The story of Darood is full of Cushitic myths found in other Waaq worshipping Cushites of the Horn (founding dir woman at a tree) and the lineages/names of the Darood are heavily Cushitic/Somali especially compared to the Isaaq clan who have more Arabized names in our lineages.

J1 seems to be restricted among some of the coastal Harti as a minority lineage and there is an occasional J from the very diverse South-Central Somalia.The founders of the major Somalis clans of Hawiye and Darood are ethnic Somalis as proven by their str results and so are the Habar Awals.The Dir and the Isaaq T-M70 carriers and their origins are still up for debate but I'm waiting untill we see more testing from Horners,the Southern Cushites and their admixed descendants to make any conclusions on their origins.