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GabrielZelalem
09-15-2019, 03:13 PM
Hi everyone,
I am new here :P
I am a Djiboutian somali, from the Isaaq tribe (Habr Awal) but I am also aware of Gadabursi, and Habr Jeclo ancestry on both maternal and paternal side. I also know my maternal grandmother had Yemeni ancestry from the arab mushlihi tribe/Mashaliha (a Yemeni tribe who has a small presence in. Djibouti)
I got some matches with some Ethiopians (probably Tigrayans, they were related) on Gedmatch and a Yemeni from Taiz on FTDNA. I reached to one of the Ethios and he said that our shared cM were too low for us to be relevantly related (we got 12cM). I didn't know what cMs were before he told me about it! And with the Taizi match we share 43cM.
I don't know if that guy had any recent somali origins or if it came from my grandma's side but the tribe he mentioned on FTdna is different (even though it might not be relevant).

Are DNA matches really accurate ? Could very low shared cM show a common medieval ancestry, or could it just be statistical noises ?
Overall, I mostly got what seemed to be fully somali people, and quite a few who seemed to be half European, half Ethiopian or Arab. (I was able to check their GEDmatch results with their Kit Numbers)
I just wanted to know if it was common for somalis to get non-somali matches

Feel free to leave your thoughts below !

mildlycurly
09-16-2019, 12:40 PM
In my experience, yes, it's common for Somalis to get non-Somali matches. Usually Ethiopian or Arab based on the historic migration patterns between the areas.

cM is a complicated thing. Some very small matches can be legitimate (identical by descent), and some large matches can be false (identical by state- ie. indicative of a shared ethnicity but not actual descent). There's no one-size-fits-all. Generally though, 7cM (GEDmatch's default) is the cutoff point between IBS and IBD, ie. any match below 7cM is more likely to be IBS, especially if occurring in a known pileup region. Generally, any match above 12cM is more likely to be IBD than IBS, unless occurring in a known pileup region in which case it's likely to be IBS.

I'm not an expert in this field by any means, but this is what I understand.

Amber29
09-16-2019, 02:00 PM
I think your dna match means too further away for him to work kn your relationship as you both possibly cant trace it back. Other wise id consider 12cM to be IBD - but some small segments can be real,im managed to find connections using 6cM. Some arent interested either if esp your a stranger to them. It happened to me twice haha

GabrielZelalem
09-16-2019, 05:00 PM
So if Iím not mistaking:
IBS : might be common between 2 people from the same ethnic background but does not involve a recent shared descent.
IBD : shows a probable recent shared ancestry
I wasnít aware of the IBD/IBS parameter, so thanks to both of you.
It would make sense for my smaller matches to be IBS instead of IBD, as Somali people are known to be very endogamous and tribe-oriented.
A good bunch of my Somali matches are *related* to each other, on GEDmatch and also on MyHeritage.
And yes, I probably wonít figure out how I am related (or not) to these people. :)

NetNomad
09-16-2019, 05:46 PM
I am Somali (from Somalia) and I have about 325 relatives on the 23andMe Relative Finder tool. I have analyzed them all, and they are either full-blood Somalis or part Somali (50%, 25%, 12.5% being the most common). I have not been linked to Ethiopian Highlanders (so called Habeshas) or Yemenis.

One of my 'cousins' on there is a predominantly British guy with distant Aden, Yemeni ancestry. I suspect this is because his Yemeni ancestry is Somali admixed rather than me having Yemeni ancestry.

Amber29
09-16-2019, 05:55 PM
So if I’m not mistaking:
IBS : might be common between 2 people from the same ethnic background but does not involve a recent shared descent.
IBD : shows a probable recent shared ancestry
I wasn’t aware of the IBD/IBS parameter, so thanks to both of you.
It would makes sense for my smaller matches to be IBS instead of IBD, as Somali people are known to be very endogamous and tribe-oriented.
A good bunch of my Somali matches are *related* to each other, on GEDmatch and also on MyHeritage.
And yes, I probably won’t figure out how I am related (or not) to these people. :)

doesnt neccesarily have to be same ethnic background but it could be an distant shared ethnicity from other countries (so it may pop up as trace) - like i get alot of IBS matches with CELTIC people (this includes iberian(spain/portuguese) and irish) and the other being italian/southeast europe even though i am pakistani (asians do get decent amount distant of european ancestry). so i will get all this (my whole family gets it so i know this IBS connecion is REAL if i make any sense to you?

Deftextra
09-16-2019, 06:03 PM
From the somali kits I have come across on gedmatch, almost all matches are either full somali or part somali. Sometimes, a few outliers pop up when segments get closer to 7cm.

I come from an endogenous mixed clan from the Benadiri coast. Anything above ~17cm segments are either Benadiri or mixed benadiri. Bellow that, my matches are all over the place. If a small segement match is real, they usually match allot of my closely related cousins aswell.Which Is the rule I usually go by to distingues between reall and false small segement matches.

Angoliga
09-16-2019, 06:13 PM
I am Somali (from Somalia) and I have about 325 relatives on the 23andMe Relative Finder tool. I have analyzed them all, and they are either full-blood Somalis or part Somali (50%, 25%, 12.5% being the most common). I have not been linked to Ethiopian Highlanders (so called Habeshas) or Yemenis.

One of my 'cousins' on there is a predominantly British guy with distant Aden, Yemeni ancestry. I suspect this is because his Yemeni ancestry is Somali admixed rather than me having Yemeni ancestry.

Wow, 325!!? I have zero lol

NetNomad
09-16-2019, 06:17 PM
Somalis from near the area of Jigjiga seem to get the most Habesha connections on DNA websites and since Djibouti is not that far of from it, it might explain it for OP. However, I think it is much rarer for Somalis from the Eastern side (Indian Ocean direction) of the Horn. So it depends.


Wow, 325!!? I have zero lol

What, really?? I find that hard to believe, for real? Didn't they have this African Project on 23andMe to increase African participants some time ago?

Angoliga
09-16-2019, 06:30 PM
https://i.imgur.com/wyZObRW.png

I think it might have something to do with being on the V3chip... I used to have 3 distant matches (Cuban, French, AFRAM) but they all disappeared

NetNomad
09-16-2019, 06:35 PM
https://i.imgur.com/wyZObRW.png

I think it might have something to do with being on the V3chip... I used to have 3 distant matches (Cuban, French, AFRAM) but they all disappeared

Shocking.. but then again you come from a region with a small diaspora I think (North Uganda). Unfortunately, the Somali civil war has caused a rather large diaspora in Western countries explaining part of this. Also, when 23andMe implemented that Africa project mine jumped up from 50 to the 200s rather quickly and since then has slowed down.

GabrielZelalem
09-16-2019, 06:48 PM
I'm planning on taking an ancestrydna kit next winter. I have money to spend these days lool
Idk if that's the average of what most somalis, but I only have 36 relatives on MyHeritage, 51 on GEDmatch (some people have uploaded different kits from different companies for themselves so that's actually less than that), and 25 on FTDNA. Almost half the matches I got on FTDNA are also in my GEDmatch.
I got a relative on Myheritage that had Yemenite Jewish in her results, don't know how much as my heritage doesn't allow to review your relative's results appart from their top 1 ethnicity. She is clearly mixed with somali (61.6). As she also lives in France I'm guessing she's also from Djibouti.

NetNomad
09-16-2019, 06:51 PM
I'm planning on taking an ancestrydna kit next winter. I have money to spend these days lool
Idk if that's the average of what most somalis, but I only have 36 relatives on MyHeritage, 51 on GEDmatch (some people have uploaded different kits from different companies for themselves so that's actually less than that), and 25 on FTDNA. Almost half the matches I got on FTDNA are also in my GEDmatch.
I got a relative on Myheritage that had Yemenite Jewish in her results, don't know how much as my heritage doesn't allow to review your relative's results appart from their top 1 ethnicity. She is clearly mixed with somali (61.6). As she also lives in France I'm guessing she's also from Djibouti.

Ancestry.com is kind of bad for Horners as it doesn't have that many HOA testers and it lacks Horn-specific clusters.

IMO, save your money and get a Big Y test. There is a Habar Awal user on the Somali DNA Project (ftdna.com) and on yfull.com who already did one. If you also do it, you might form the Habar Awal-specific subclade. That would be more useful/interesting. My two cent.

GabrielZelalem
09-16-2019, 06:52 PM
doesnt neccesarily have to be same ethnic background but it could be an distant shared ethnicity from other countries (so it may pop up as trace) - like i get alot of IBS matches with CELTIC people (this includes iberian(spain/portuguese) and irish) and the other being italian/southeast europe even though i am pakistani (asians do get decent amount distant of european ancestry). so i will get all this (my whole family gets it so i know this IBS connecion is REAL if i make any sense to you?

Fantastic to see that the bond between populations that are now very very distinct is still present today. Reading your reply I'm guessing you don't have any recent European ancestry right ? If that's right that's amazing

GabrielZelalem
09-16-2019, 07:03 PM
IMO, save your money and get a Big Y test. There is a Habar Awal user on the Somali DNA Project (ftdna.com) and on yfull.com who already did one. If you also do it, you might form the Habar Awal-specific subclade. That would be more useful/interesting. My two cent.
How does it work ? I'm guessing that I'm an E-V32 bearer just like all the Habar Awal Djiboutians that have been tested

NetNomad
09-16-2019, 07:12 PM
How does it work ? I'm guessing that I'm an E-V32 bearer just like all the Habar Awal Djiboutians that have been tested

It essentially scans your entire Y-Chromosome (or at least the relevant bits) and finds new mutations so new subclades can form. It is the discovery part of haplogroup research instead of assignment (what most DNA companies do). You can also find out how long ago the subclade appeared (TMRCA calculations)

The test is expensive, but during the sale periods it is relatively affordable. FTDNA recently upgraded from Y500 to Y700 (a major improvement - see this paper (https://blog.familytreedna.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/big-y-700-white-paper_compressed.pdf)). I'd recommend this test to you as there already is one Habar Awal gentleman who did it. One more and you get a new subclade.

GabrielZelalem
09-17-2019, 02:41 PM
Do you have any link to buy the Y-dna test ? I’ve been to Y-full and it is a bit confusing sorry

Amber29
09-17-2019, 04:52 PM
Fantastic to see that the bond between populations that are now very very distinct is still present today. Reading your reply I'm guessing you don't have any recent European ancestry right ? If that's right that's amazing

you are correct no recent european ancestry,(its hard when your parents and you get same IBS matches - but im sure its distant but i think its strong today because when you marry within family and same ethnic group as you, it grows more into the child meaning gaining more iBS matches that parents dont even get -

and I read your comment about taking more test (do that if you think its worth it (i tested with all (DNA enthusiasts xD)and you got my same group matches on myheritage then i did max i get is 22 LOL. Anyways good luck on your search - hope you find what you are looking for :)

drobbah
09-18-2019, 12:51 PM
Hi everyone,
I am new here :P
I am a Djiboutian somali, from the Isaaq tribe (Habr Awal) but I am also aware of Gadabursi, and Habr Jeclo ancestry on both maternal and paternal side. I also know my maternal grandmother had Yemeni ancestry from the arab mushlihi tribe/Mashaliha (a Yemeni tribe who has a small presence in. Djibouti)
I got some matches with some Ethiopians (probably Tigrayans, they were related) on Gedmatch and a Yemeni from Taiz on FTDNA. I reached to one of the Ethios and he said that our shared cM were too low for us to be relevantly related (we got 12cM). I didn't know what cMs were before he told me about it! And with the Taizi match we share 43cM.
I don't know if that guy had any recent somali origins or if it came from my grandma's side but the tribe he mentioned on FTdna is different (even though it might not be relevant).

Are DNA matches really accurate ? Could very low shared cM show a common medieval ancestry, or could it just be statistical noises ?
Overall, I mostly got what seemed to be fully somali people, and quite a few who seemed to be half European, half Ethiopian or Arab. (I was able to check their GEDmatch results with their Kit Numbers)
I just wanted to know if it was common for somalis to get non-somali matches

Feel free to leave your thoughts below !
Western Sacad Muuse on some occasions carry minor Ethiopian ancestry.My father and I both have some Ethiopian relatives and minor Ethiopian ancestry.On 23andme on there more recent update, I score 1.6% Ethiopian & Eritrean.

GabrielZelalem
09-18-2019, 01:45 PM
Western Sacad Muuse on some occasions carry minor Ethiopian ancestry.My father and I both have some Ethiopian relatives and minor Ethiopian ancestry.On 23andme on there more recent update, I score 1.6% Ethiopian & Eritrean.

Is it also the case for most northwestern Somalis ?
It makes sense knowing the history of Adal/Ifat and the Conquest of Abyssinia by lowland Muslims

GabrielZelalem
09-18-2019, 01:49 PM
Although when I first noticed that these matches were Ethiopians I automatically linked them to the Abyssinian wife of Isaaq, as my paternal grandmother is Habr Jeclo

drobbah
09-18-2019, 03:06 PM
Is it also the case for most northwestern Somalis ?
It makes sense knowing the history of Adal/Ifat and the Conquest of Abyssinia by lowland Muslims

It seems to be only those from Western Somaliland (Jibriil Abokor & Samaroone) and those from the Jigjiga region of Ethiopia which contains settled clans like Jibriil Abokor,Samarone,Geri,Bartire etc

drobbah
09-18-2019, 03:08 PM
Although when I first noticed that these matches were Ethiopians I automatically linked them to the Abyssinian wife of Isaaq, as my paternal grandmother is Habr Jeclo

Eastern Somaliland doesn't have any Ethiopian ancestry.Even those clans from Hargeisa or Berbera don't have any Ethiopian ancestry.

GabrielZelalem
09-25-2019, 09:56 PM
Had also a few questions about my autosomal dna, it looks like I almost completely lack any recent West Asian ancestry (I basically look typical), when I actually expected some from my maternal grandma. She was born orphan and didnt know much about her parents, just that her mother was partially Yemeni (as she grew up with her father's cousins).
The Yemeni match makes it really obvious to me that it was true, but I'm still confused about that.
Any thoughts ? I can upload any results you ask

NetNomad
09-26-2019, 10:20 AM
Had also a few questions about my autosomal dna, it looks like I almost completely lack any recent West Asian ancestry (I basically look typical), when I actually expected some from my maternal grandma. She was born orphan and didnt know much about her parents, just that her mother was partially Yemeni (as she grew up with her father's cousins).
The Yemeni match makes it really obvious to me that it was true, but I'm still confused about that.
Any thoughts ? I can upload any results you ask

Try to participate in this project with G25 data. It will be interesting to know whether DJ Somalis have Afar admixture or not (can be observed through place of clustering):

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?18428-PCA-G25_scaled-Africans-only-(Users-amp-Ancients-Modern-Avgs)

Horner
09-29-2019, 05:04 PM
Afar would have been my guess to your original question about Ethiopian matches. For centuries the Afar salt traders traversed between the markets in the former Tigray & Wollo and the Afar salt interior. Also, before 1991, the current Afar region of Ethiopia was largely located in the two above regions. Assuming this interior also served as a hub between Afar and Djibouti, this possibly is your connection.

WADIGAJI
04-24-2021, 09:31 PM
the name Zelalem is very common in Tigrigna or Amharic speakers. ...