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Tomenable
09-29-2019, 02:38 AM
On Friday in Warsaw Dr Stanaszek officially confirmed that a man from Wielbark culture's inhumation burial in Drozdowo, Masovia region, was R1b-U106:

http://festiwalnauki.edu.pl/spotkania/co-dna-mowi-o-naszym-rodowodzie

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drozdowo,_P%C5%82o%C5%84sk_County

But the majority of Wielbark burials in Drozdowo are cremations, we don't know if cremated people were genetically different than those in inhumations.

spruithean
09-29-2019, 03:42 AM
On Friday in Warsaw Dr Stanaszek officially confirmed that a man from Wielbark culture's inhumation burial in Drozdowo, Masovia region, was R1b-U106:

http://festiwalnauki.edu.pl/spotkania/co-dna-mowi-o-naszym-rodowodzie

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drozdowo,_P%C5%82o%C5%84sk_County

But the majority of Wielbark burials in Drozdowo are cremations, we don't know if cremated people were genetically different than those in inhumations.

Can't say this would be a surprise to find U106 in Wielbark (and by extension the Goths). Any news on the other Wielbark Y-DNA? Especially the I1 sample from Wielbark?

Specifically:

KO_55 100-300 AD Kowalewko Poland Wielbark_Culture I1a3a1a1a-M253>DF29>Z63>BY151>S2078>S2077>Y2245>L1237 Zenczak 2017

and for the hell of it, ME_7 1000-1200 AD Markowice Poland Medieval I1a2a2a5-M253>DF29>Z58>Z59>Z2041>Z2040>Z382>Y5384 Zenczak 2017

Bollox79
09-29-2019, 06:05 AM
On Friday in Warsaw Dr Stanaszek officially confirmed that a man from Wielbark culture's inhumation burial in Drozdowo, Masovia region, was R1b-U106:

http://festiwalnauki.edu.pl/spotkania/co-dna-mowi-o-naszym-rodowodzie

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drozdowo,_P%C5%82o%C5%84sk_County

But the majority of Wielbark burials in Drozdowo are cremations, we don't know if cremated people were genetically different than those in inhumations.

Thanks for the heads up Tomenable... is the raw data available (I would ask Alex W. to take a look if it is) and do you have anymore info on this particular burial? Time period and burial goods?

Cheers,
Charlie

Tomenable
09-29-2019, 06:40 AM
No raw data so far AFAIK.

At another Wielbark site, Maslomecz, according to prof. Figlerowicz (this statement about distinct groups is probably based on autosomes, not just on mtDNA):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mas%C5%82om%C4%99cz

"There were 3 distinct groups at Maslomecz: local natives, Goths, and immigrants from the East".

^^^ Here is some mtDNA from Maslomecz that has been published so far:

https://i.imgur.com/8YwqtY6.jpg

^^^ Let me make a wild guess:

PCA0089, 0094, 0099, 0100 = Goths
PCA0093 = immigrant from the East

And the others are local natives?

Wing Genealogist
09-29-2019, 10:34 AM
Thanks for the heads up Tomenable... is the raw data available (I would ask Alex W. to take a look if it is) and do you have anymore info on this particular burial? Time period and burial goods?

Cheers,
Charlie

I don't have access to the raw data, but looking at Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wielbark_culture it dates the Wielbark culture to the 1st-4th Century AD, but further states they moved from their initial area (in Eastern Pomerania, near the Baltic Sea) to what was later (1000 AD) became Masovia & Lesser Poland. Drozdowo is in the region where they moved into, so can be dated to the 3rd-4th Century AD.

In addition, the wikipedia article states
No weapons or tools are found in Wielbark culture graves, unlike the Przeworsk culture for which it was typical to give the dead such gifts. Instead, the artifacts found are mostly ornaments and costumes, although a few graves have shown spurs, these being the only warrior attributes found.

mihaitzateo
09-29-2019, 01:42 PM
R1B-U106 in Romania is at about 3.5% or so. Or more.
As a personal opinion, I think Goths originally were mostly I2A and more exactly, I2ab.
Extreme South of Sweden does have I2, around 5% or so.But what is more curious is that I1 reaches 50% or more in the island of Gotland.
The only other area of Europe where I, but I2, is over 50%, is in Bosnia.
After the migration of Goths from South Sweden to Pomerania and the settlement in Pomerania, I2ab1 (or I2-din) appeared.
A lot of I2-din bearers were assimilated by Slavs, later.

spruithean
09-29-2019, 03:01 PM
R1B-U106 in Romania is at about 3.5% or so. Or more.
As a personal opinion, I think Goths originally were mostly I2A and more exactly, I2ab.
Extreme South of Sweden does have I2, around 5% or so.But what is more curious is that I1 reaches 50% or more in the island of Gotland.
The only other area of Europe where I, but I2, is over 50%, is in Bosnia.
After the migration of Goths from South Sweden to Pomerania and the settlement in Pomerania, I2ab1 (or I2-din) appeared.
A lot of I2-din bearers were assimilated by Slavs, later.


Eh, I would bet that the Goths carried R-U106, clades of I-M253 (we have found a subclade of I-Z63 in Wielbark apparently), clades of I2, some forms of R1a and so on. Like all people they were a mixture of various paternal and maternal lineages.

Tomenable
09-30-2019, 06:07 AM
In addition, the wikipedia article states:

"No weapons or tools are found in Wielbark culture graves, unlike the Przeworsk culture for which it was typical to give the dead such gifts. Instead, the artifacts found are mostly ornaments and costumes, although a few graves have shown spurs, these being the only warrior attributes found."

There are no Przeworsk samples yet. But in Kowalewko (a Wielbark cemetery located in formerly Przeworsk area, where Wielbark expanded) two autosomally distinct groups of people were present, one represented mostly by women - it is hypothesized that those women could be descended from Przeworsk population.