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Nqp15hhu
10-10-2019, 12:20 AM
I got a genealogist to perform an analysis of my Y-DNA results.

The conclusion was that I had two areas of GB where my surname may have originated. Southwest England and Northeast England.

The suggestion was NE England because of a surname that is rare and only in this area.

Now, that’s fine BUT I did not think of this as a possibility. Why?

My Haplogroup is R1B-L193 which is associated with the Scottish Borders. My ancestors are also Presbyterian right the way back. I suppose they could’ve converted when they arrived over here, however, if not is Presbyterianism a common religion in NE England? Plausible?

Some of the surnames are also Scottish, for example, McLean and Ferguson. And many of matches at Y-67 are Scottish.

So, I don’t know. How realistic is this as a proposition? I’m not knocking this person, just wondering if much migration came from NE England to Northern Ireland?

How could I further solidify this suggested origin?

spruithean
10-10-2019, 12:32 AM
What did this genealogist base their findings on? STRs or SNPs?

Nqp15hhu
10-10-2019, 12:49 AM
Matches and the distribution of the surnames.

spruithean
10-10-2019, 01:47 AM
I see, my only questions with these methods are:

- Are the matches all definitely on your branch of the Y-tree?
- If not, what are the chances that these matches are due to convergence?

Nqp15hhu
10-10-2019, 01:59 AM
I don’t know. I’m a novice with this.

spruithean
10-10-2019, 02:43 AM
Anyway, to answer your questions about migrants from NE England, sure, several Border Reiver families ended up in Northern Ireland. The plantations in Ulster were not limited to Scots, English and others settled in Ireland too.

I wouldn't take the conclusions of the genealogist here as gospel, that's just my opinion. I remember some time ago there was someone who did something similar with people's results and the methods used were a bit suspect.

Nqp15hhu
10-10-2019, 03:49 AM
It wasn’t Tyrone Bowes. But yes, it does seem interesting. Particularly with there being a mix of English and Scottish names in my results.

He does note that there is the Elliott spelling which is English? Rather than Elliot

Bollox79
10-10-2019, 07:24 AM
Anyway, to answer your questions about migrants from NE England, sure, several Border Reiver families ended up in Northern Ireland. The plantations in Ulster were not limited to Scots, English and others settled in Ireland too.

I wouldn't take the conclusions of the genealogist here as gospel, that's just my opinion. I remember some time ago there was someone who did something similar with people's results and the methods used were a bit suspect.

Speaking of Border Reiver families who ended up over in Northern Ireland - my Maguires from Ontario (who mixed with Scots Highlanders from Cape Breton and other areas) appear to be the same family from Tralee in Kerry (ended up there after the failed rebellion - several maybe 10 or more distant cousin matches sharing that Maguire ancestry all trace back to that Tralee family) and previously Fermanagh (DNA matches appear to support this)... and an Armstrong of Gilknockie ended up marrying a Maguire (daughter of a Captain Thomas Maguire who was the son of the Lord Hugh Maguire) over in Fermanagh and a quick search of my Uncle O'Dwyer's results showed some distant cousins with this same Armstrong ancestry from Fermanagh - additional O'Donnell Irish distant cousin matches from the North with O'Neill ancestry would appear to support the Maguire of Fermanagh connection (their traditional allied families - I see the same with a cluster of allied families of the O'Duibhirs of Kilnamanagh and Wicklow in the extended matches)!

Anyway the Border Reiver/Northern Ireland connection during the plantation times you mentioned reminded me of that discovery... that means the Armstrongs were in league with the rebels ;-)... the same the Armstrongs were light or fair colored (possible Scandinavian admixture) and the ones descended from the Armstrong/Maguire union were all dark haired like the Maguire daughter who was black haired etc - or so the story goes as I was reading about Fermanagh and Armstrongs ;-).

Nqp15hhu - is the surname Elliot(t)? I am pretty sure there was an Elliot back a few generations from the Maguire/Armstrong union and they were also considered a Borders family... in fact a quick look up I find the father and mother of this Edward Armstrong who married Margaret Maguire in Fermanagh - his father was William "Christie's Will" Armstrong and mother was a Margaret Elliot - now I don't vouch for the accuracy of any of that really other than the Armstrong/Maguire connection seems real and appears to even show up in my Uncle's distant cousin match's ancestry from Fermanagh - i.e. at least two separate distant cousins who have that Armstrong family from Fermanagh in their tree in the direct line etc... I just recently sent my mother's results off (she's an O'Dwyer also - or rather Ni Dhuibhir ;-)!) so I'll also look for that connection in her results etc and others...

Interesting aside is that in my results (and then my mother's when I get them) I have a Leinster migration connection via my Ancestry test (I have done autosomal at FTDNA and Ancestry) and I find in my results distant cousins in New South Wales who are descendants of both Captain Michael Dwyer of Wicklow/Glen of Imaal and also his Lt. Hugh Vesty O'Byrne (they were first cousins and I believe Hugh married an O'Dwyer girl probably Michael's sister or something would have to look at tree)... our common connection would be O'Dwyer of course back in the old country... though I see Byrne matches show up also... anyway I noticed a 1st cousin of mine son of my mother's older sister O'Dwyer - he and I have different values - I have more "Ireland and Scotland" category than he does about 9 or 10% and he doesn't share the Leinster migration with me, just Munster... so I thought that was interesting the slight different between two cousins, but of course the connections to the overall family in Ireland still exist etc.

Cheers!

Nqp15hhu
10-10-2019, 12:38 PM
The genealogist refers to the surname “Elliott” being in my matches. I have 53 Elliott and Ellenwood matches.

Supposedly, Elliott is English. And I have to say pretty much all of those matches are spelt “Elliott”. Anyone know anything about this? Elliot is supposed to be the Scottish version. Is this consistent?

I also have Crozier and Glendinning/Clendinning in there which I know are Border surnames.

There are a few odd surnames such as “Dugger” which appear in my matches. I’m not sure about these surnames and their origins.

spruithean
10-10-2019, 06:55 PM
I'm not really sure spelling matters here. Spelling of surnames especially was fairly fluid until relatively recently. So I'm not sure you could say that Elliot is Scottish only and Elliott is English only.

Nqp15hhu
10-10-2019, 06:56 PM
Ok, what is your theory then?

spruithean
10-10-2019, 07:06 PM
Ok, what is your theory then?

I would just assume that the matches you see and their self-reported ancestries could be a clue to where your family came from prior to being in Ireland, so far you've picked up some Border names from both sides of the Anglo-Scottish border, and you've also got matches from similar areas in Northern Ireland, right?

I don't think it would be too much of a leap to estimate that your ancestors came from the Border region or perhaps more to the north of that, or even the south of that. While it's not accurate to simply leave it at a broad geographical range, it is open to refinement as more matches come in, deeper clade testing, etc.

It's just my 5 cents, and it could be taken with a grain of salt.

Nqp15hhu
10-10-2019, 07:44 PM
Most of my matches actually have a location in America or nothing. That’s been incredibly unhelpful.

My matches are all over Scotland.. so..

Nqp15hhu
10-10-2019, 08:03 PM
There is no clear area as far as I can see. This is an analysis of all of my Y-DNA matches that provide GB locations for their ancestor.

Argyll (6)

Highland (4)

Dumbartonshire (4)

Lanarkshire (4)

Perthshire (3)

Roxburghshire (2)

Durham (2)

Aberdeenshire (1)

London (1)

East Lothian (1)

Wigtownshire (1)

Merseyside (1)